This is a known problem, the noise is coming from the oil pump chain, they probably only changed the normal timing chain. There is a revised part for it. Done a few of them now on the N20 engine
Chances are by now Chris has thrown in a late night and sorted it, no way would he of left it there, halfway through eating his tea a thought popped into his head, tea left on the table and out with the tools,
Known issue with those N20 engines, a few TH-cam videos about it. From 2015 they updated the chain/guides. Get a proper BMW kit and replace the timing and oil pump chain. You'll also have to check the oil pickup pipe for plastic debris.
The second set of photos on Car Vertical were taken in a salvage yard. You can see a fork lift next to it and stickers in the screen. A dealer wouldn’t try to sell a car using pictures taken in that sort of setting.
whilst striped down, take out the spark plugs and spin it over using angle drill on crank and locate the sound without the engine running noise and isolate the sound location, wherever the sound is coming from, it will be one of the parts in that area. looking at the butcher job on the bolt heads etc, I would have lean towards a bad timing chain job, or listening to the former owners comments about the exact same sound, misdiagnosed timing chain or the chain was never changed and they just chewed up some visable bolts to make it look like they were in they working, crazy thing to say I know, but seen this kind of shinanigins before, expensive timing job not carried out but take the payment. sound plasticky rubbing to me, I'd go for plastic timing guides not secure or chain tensioners not doing there job and causing chain slap on the guides. best of luck guys.
Hi, hope you do not mind me suggesting that you try an old trick to identify the source of the noise by using a mechanics stethoscope ( even try a long screwdriver, touch any item press your ear against the end of the driver and identify bearings etc that are causing the source of the noise. ) You have a very competent engineer who is very capable and I am sure you will soon sort this.
A while ago I invested in an engine stethoscope - you can place the needle anywhere on the engine and hear everything. It's brilliant for locating, and identifying sounds. Worth a try if you have one.
Given the damage to the torx heads, and knackered tensioner, don't as Chris said fill you with confidence. Did somebody actually do the chain job or just claim they had. If they did would somebody lacking basic tools actually be competent to work on this sort of engine. I reckon the chain job needs redoing from scratch.
My moneys on the harmonic pulley about to break which is wobbling and causing something else to vibrate maybe the timing chain guides… I’m sure you’ll get to the bottom of it as usual, fantastic videos 👌🏼
The more I see of modern BMWs, the more I want to keep my old E60 going forever! Good luck with this one gentlemen, I think you're going to need it (but if anyone can sort it, it'll be you two).
Ha. My e61 shat itself numerous times. Water in the spare wheel well ruined 3000 worth of computers twice, cracked it's cylinder head at 80,000 miles. Stranded me with run flats twice, wiring in the boot hinge wore through, self leveling rear suspension compressor failed 5 hours from home... Lovely car, but not reliable in the slightest. I think the newer gen ones are as unreliable as our generation
@@adejenkins Wow, you have my sympathy! I didn't get that much hassle as I don't have an Tourer, but the water in the spare wheel well? Yeah, been there, done that! Oddly enough, I had a cracked head on my second E34. The MPM didn't cost me that much to replace on mine when it got drowned but it sounds like there's a lot more in the boot of yours, being a Tourer. Mine's now at 310,000 miles.
May be worth checking the endfloat on the crank Chris. Back in my main dealer days we had a few of these with thrust washer failure and they were making a similar kind of noise. May also explain the looks like its wobbling pulley. 👍 Good luck.
Rogue Autos Your comment takes me back to the Austin Morris E series 2.2 6cyl motor. Had a new one in that had so much end float on the crank that you lost the clutch on the over-run. Turned out that the thrust washers hadn’t been fitted when built. You could watch the bottom pulley move in and out as you blipped the throttle.
Turn it over with the fuel pump fuse pulled to build up pressure in the tensioner before starting, with the tension so tight before the plastic chain guide is probably worn, drain the oil & look for plastic shavings
The twin turbo is a dual scroll turbo. Hence twin turbo power. The tensioners are oil pressure filled. That half moon cog is a eccentric shaft and is to to with the (vvt) variable valve timing , so the oil fed pipe just lubricates the shaft against the valvetronic motor. I’m not sure what the noise is, but would advise taking the vanos solenoids out and cleaning the with brake cleaner and resetting the vanos plates on the cams as these are oil fed and reacts with the timing so it has to be timed up perfectly
You guys commenting do realise that Chris and Rob normally know what the problem is before you actually see the videos, they just ask the questions to get you involved and making comments. 😀
The timing chain guide is fouling the chain cheep chain kit the they don't fit well and vibate I could see the play in the top guide when you wound out the tension bolt there should be no movement 😉
Twin power turbo refers to a twin scroll turbocharger, which is one turbo with a two stage wheel inside. The first part is light and enables a quick spool and the second stage spins up at the top end of the rev range for maximum POWEERRRRRR 👍🏼
4:29 Anyone else reckon that the second set of photos when the vehicle was on sale in 07-20 where taken at a Copart yard? It looks a lot like a Copart forklift/loader in the background of a Copart loading area.
Yes definitely Copart, lot no. is on the screen. Other photos are at a dealer. Rob seemed to ignore that it's been through Copart. I'm guessing he's saving that info for another video. They're drip feeding the information to keep you watching
I've noticed that cars for sale in the local dealers aren't shifting as quickly as they were, so hopefully that means prices will return to normal(ish) levels.
It's definitely a timing chain issue, whether it be the guide tensioner and even chain. Guide definitely needs tightening and I would definitely change the tensioner. Check the chain for any sort of damage/marking. These engines were given extended 7yr/70,000 mile warranty pre 2015 due to timing chain issues.
the chains can last (if they dont stretch) but the plastic chain guides (to save Fritz a couple of euros) will degrade with time. Looks like not the issue here though.
I had loads of issues with this engine previously Firstly I would check the oil pick up in the sump for any plastic debris as the old chain tensioners may have broken up and have been pulled up and gone into the oil pump. A common problem… The noise sounds as it is from the front of the engine Secondly check the timing and the vanos hubs sometimes they give a fault code and no check engine light. As the person who replaced the chain couldn’t be bothered with using the correct tools there is a chance they over looked a few things. Thirdly investigate the bottom pulley
Take a leaf out of Ian Tyrells book (Tyrell's classic workshop on YT).... I think you need to get a 1/2" inner dia rubber hose, put one end up to your ear and move the other end around the running engine (put it on the ramp so you can get underneath too) this should help find the source of the noise. Apparently these engines are affectionately known as a sewing machine. I'm taking a guess that the tensioner on the drive chain for the oil pump has failed and its rattling against it housing. Changing this means re-doing the main timing chain, do your research, not an easy job.
As suggested I would lean toward using a stethoscope and looking around the oil pump and sprocket when revving. Worth a try if you don't find it elsewhere. Common on the n20.
Looking forward to part 2 of the diagnosis guys. Judging by the damage I'd probably drop a new chain cassette in to be on the same side. If it was making the noise before the chain 'replacement' and still made it afterwards, was it actually swapped at all? Just thinking out loud...
Going on from Chris's thought about a longer bolt being put in where a shorter bolt went, is there any metal filings in the oil? Is there any sign on the front face of the timing chain link pins? Is it worth removing the front bolts and checking for sign of a clash? If not then clean the front of the chain and put blue marker ink on the link pins, let it dry and index on to see if the ink shows any scratches.
Gutted you didn't suss it out, but one of the reasons I love the channel. It was a fail, and you still uploaded it, just makes the second part more intriguing
I’m probably way off, but the sound reminded me of the things we did to our bikes back in the 80’s to make them sound like a motorbike 🤣 We’d tape a piece of card to the rear frame so that the card would hit the spokes and make a noise. Could it be as simple as something like a piece of plastic trim hitting the fan? If not I bet it’s something you’d laugh at when you do find out what it is.
I am with Chris it does sound more plasticity rather than metallic. You have released the tensioner so that problem is solved. We couldn't really see (too dark) but was anything touching the chain that shouldn't be? I only ask because that cover wasn't put on very well, rounded bolts, is it deformed? It is worth checking the turbo as well although the noise doesn't sound like the turbo is 'toast', definitely something that spins though I would say rather than internal. I am 'old school ' so we didn't have all that plastic back in the day but thats how it is now. Thanks again Rob and Chris for another interesting video. Hope you have a great weekend. 👍 👍
I would check for excessive end float in the crank, you will need to drop the oil pump out to check it but I have had that similar noise on this engine before and it turned out to be excess end float causing it. BM tech.
Howzit guys. So I bought a 2008 e90 323i. The engine is in a state. But I have the same noise. On the side of the engine by the chain tensioner you removed. Slightly above it is two vanos filters. Mine was glogged up so badly and that would also have the vanos solonoids to not get enough oil pressure and might make same noise. Best way is to remove right front wheel and front wheel arch half and then access them from that side. Thanks.
Had a similar sound on a transit few years back and it was starter motor staying engaged, but what ever it is I’m sure you will find it. Keep up the good work boys 👍🏻
Done a few of these, timing chains come in a plastic cassette and can guess by the look of the damaged heads and bad tensioner left in there that it will be a bit of (hopefully the old one) cassette in the works hence the plastic 'lollystick in the spokes' type sound.
"Everything's been apart" Not even having the correct tools to remove the reverse Torx screws makes me wonder if it actually has, especially as there's been no change in the noise. Excellent video there as ever gentlemen.
It's not a face-lift, it is in fact the first year of manufacturing for the F30. It isn't twin turbo either. It's an N20 single turbo engine. "Twin Power Turbo" is just a BMW marketing term for a twin-scroll turbo.
Timing chain failure is a known issue on this engine and was the subject of a class action lawsuit in the US. I think the timing chain guides are also prone to failure.
Unlikely to be turbo related as Chris heard the noise when hand turning the engine. Also unlikely to be auxiliary as all disconnected. The frequency of the noise is very high. Higher than crankshaft or camshaft speed. Sounds fast enough to be linked to the speed the cam chain travels. Was the chain ever changed or just a failed attempt? Torx bolts damage implies a clueless amateur. Plastic guides look suspiciously dark for straight out of the box. My suspicion is that the engine made this noise first, then "someone" decided to check the timing chain, decided half way through that it was all too hard, put it all back and the noise was still there. Of course it was. My guess is that it is some collapse of the plastic chain guide which is contacting the links as they pass but would like to do a visual with endoscope to confirm. Best of luck!
I think that sounds like the chain rubbing on a defective, or incorrectly fitted, guide, it's got that metal on plastic sound about it. BMW has had many issues with chains and guides on various engines. at least it is not an N47 engine where the chain is located at the back of the engine! Great video
I like Chris explaining or giving his ideas but personally find it frustrating when rob butts in or interrupts Chris when Chris is talking. Just give him a second to stop or not to talk over each other! Otherwise another good video 👌
We’re talking between ourselves and filming it this is how we roll every day. Not to be rude this is the comments section maybe we should open a complaints department comments like yours really are frustrating you got free content on a plate 3 times a week yet still feel the need to criticise and moan 🤷♂️
Hi Rob, Thanks for the thumbs up on my part of Kent, Gravesend does sound like a rubbish name but get out into the green parts either side of the A2 and it is lovely.
Unbelievable that a 'professional' took this apart with sockets rather than the correct torx tools. I always service my cars myself because you just can't trust anyone these days.
Noticed on the pics from 4:29 it has the plus pack wheels on. Shame as they are nice wheels compared to the other m-sport wheels it arrived with. Wheels obviously added extras as the car is a sport rather than m-sport
N20 known for whine coming from oil pump. It has its own chain, pullies and tensioner. There are also problems with noise coming from harmonic balancer shaft. Water pump is electric so worth checking that out for noise also. A length of hose pipe jammed in one ear to locate the area where the noise is coming from should be your next step!
Get yourselves a stethoscope guy's, I have one that has a long thin probe and its amazing how you can narrow down exactly where the noise is coming from.
When I was younger I had a VW Scirocco was making exactly the same noise - turned out the timing belt cover bolts had been put in the wrong place and the cover was just touching the belt - what a racket it made !
Given the job clearly wasn't done professionally and whoever did it, didn't even change the tensioner, I reckon it has broken chain guides. Yes they should have been changed along with the chain, but what can be seen at the top doesn't look new..
If there is any rattle coming from an engine one of the first things I would do is check the oil for particle contamination. At least it would give you an idea if there is metal on metal rubbing. I'm sure you will get it sorted though. Good luck.
Rob, on the Car Vertical check you skipped over point 13 'Damage Detected' at 3.04 on the video and the damage record lower down, dated 2020-07, matches the date of the set of photos from the salvage yard. Might have had a bigger accident than the minor bumper scratch. Good luck.
That’s the noise you get from or what you call an out of balance impeller vane on the water pump or oil pump defo a fluid pump I would have to VA all the comps to be sure it’s either cracked…or it’s broke off completely and it’s bouncing round you can tell by the resonance
Hi Rob, Go into you tube and type in Engine ticking noise in a Bmw F30 and it sounds just like your problem, Its the waste gate Acuator plate thats vibrating when Running
Pull the chain tensioner out again to see if it’s free or stuck. Gen 1 BMW Minis are the same, best to replace it once it’s failed, easy to do and eliminate.
Looking at eliminaton, No chance its the turbo. Turbos spool up and down at higher RPM and independent to engine speed. This noise is aligned to engine speed. Like someone mentioned try and iscolate noise with stethoscope i.e. Front or back of engine
Good tip about removing the auxiliary belt to eliminate a lot of sources, seems like the whole jobs been a lash up, at least the timing chain is at the front on this BMW lads.
worries me that someone who cant use the basic torx sockets is doing a timing chain, theyd also be the ones to buy a cheap chain set and not a decent brand/genuine one, even the pipes the wrong way around etc. you get what you pay for. but im sure you two will have it turned around even if its a small profit trading it on. love watching chris fault finding and it teaches me more every day being a huge car enthusiast and diy on my own cars👍👌
I had to laugh at Chris' comment at 15.06 as I was thinking the exact same thing, not a lot of confidence in the repair if they aren't using the proper tools in the first place!! Always a great show of skills guys!!
Often when people skimp out on the job they'll replace the one element, in this case the timing chain, but it would be interesting to reach out to an independent BMW specialist. To see if there other items like oil pump chain or anything like that also needs to be done at the same time. I know what ever happens both you and Chris will get to the bottom of it.
I have seen something similar to this problem, before. I would suggest that you check the fan blade on the turbo, in case the bearing has failed and the fan is rubbing. whatever it turns out to be, I wish you well with this project.
Hi, Great video. It sounds like a turbo noise to me??? Engine and transmission noises are notoriously difficult to diagnose. I remember once 35 years ago basically dismantling my Ford Cortina to find the source of a transmission whine. it turned out to be a rear wheel bearing. The noise travelled up through the axle / diff and prop shaft into the gearbox. Good luck, I look forward to hearing of the root cause.
Hi guys remove the 2 bottom torque bolts holding the either lower timing chain guides the guide can fit in wrong position and also the lower crank full sprocket can get caught at in the guide when installing new chain kit removing and installing whole chain assembly should fix fault or worst case new guides required hope it helps you guys plus probably Chris the guru has figured it out
@@sruk I would drop the oil and run it through a paint filter and see whether you have metallic or plastic bits in it, I agree with you, but depends on the size of the broken bit of guide as it is still an option, but after watching again I still think it is a guide issue either old broken bits or issues with the new guides - for all you know especially with the state of Torx bolts they could of fitted the chain by linking it too the old one and feeding it through etc. - just seems a total lash up - but I would think, the issue started with a broken guide the replacement kit hasn't been fitted correctly and there is still debris in there or dropped down around the oil pump chain or wedged in behind crank Orr oil pump sprockets. But as said would drop the oil to see what's in it and that should give a direction to go in......keep up the good work
Hi Chris, "Twin Turbo" in BMW marketing speak means single turbo, but twin scrolls/inlets. Same on N55 and B58 straight 6. It has been the same marketing talk for a decade now. My F30 N55 engine was also making strange pulley noises at 40k miles, just before I sold it 4y ago, there seems to be a common issue with the auxiliary belt tensioners. Best of luck to get rid of this annoying noise ! 👍
My first thought was timing chain guide. Thinking of the bloke who fixed it didn’t have the right tools then he probably just replaced the chain and refitted all of the used ancillaries?? Is it even the right chain???
Rob what ever happened to the F30 engine was looking for the second video and couldn't find it did you back the car or sub it out to someone else was interested on what was found. Cheers guys
Hi Rob / Chris .. looked like the top bridge that sits between the cams was loose.. also looks like the guide on the right hand cam is loose as well .. if the person was using 6 / 12 point sockets on the Torq headed bolts, the bolts that hold the guides may be loose . It sound like the chain is rubbing against a guide ... Hope ya get it sorted .. Andy
This is a known problem, the noise is coming from the oil pump chain, they probably only changed the normal timing chain. There is a revised part for it. Done a few of them now on the N20 engine
I actually think that's spot on to
When I was a kid I’d be watching Crackerjack at 5 o’clock on a Friday. Now I’m 50 it’s Salvage Rebuilds.
Oooh, I could crush a grape !
😂😂😂
The Mother-in- laws round, "I just need to pop out love and grab something", say no more mate, we've all been there... 😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂
I’m assuming the only reason the Car was brought 😂
😂😂😂my thoughts exactly
Mileage discrepancy, listed damage… f@ck it!
Just walked through the door, beer in hand, salvage rebuilds on the big screen, happy Friday everyone 👍🏻
Took the words right out of my mouth mate
Snap, but substitute beer for a dark rum and black!
👌
Chances are by now Chris has thrown in a late night and sorted it, no way would he of left it there, halfway through eating his tea a thought popped into his head, tea left on the table and out with the tools,
Known issue with those N20 engines, a few TH-cam videos about it. From 2015 they updated the chain/guides. Get a proper BMW kit and replace the timing and oil pump chain. You'll also have to check the oil pickup pipe for plastic debris.
The second set of photos on Car Vertical were taken in a salvage yard. You can see a fork lift next to it and stickers in the screen. A dealer wouldn’t try to sell a car using pictures taken in that sort of setting.
The 07/ 2020 pics have copart style sticker in the windscreen. Certainly been offered at a salvage yard.
I love these diagnostic videos. An absolute headache for you guys but makes great viewing for us armchair mechanics.
whilst striped down, take out the spark plugs and spin it over using angle drill on crank and locate the sound without the engine running noise and isolate the sound location, wherever the sound is coming from, it will be one of the parts in that area. looking at the butcher job on the bolt heads etc, I would have lean towards a bad timing chain job, or listening to the former owners comments about the exact same sound, misdiagnosed timing chain or the chain was never changed and they just chewed up some visable bolts to make it look like they were in they working, crazy thing to say I know, but seen this kind of shinanigins before, expensive timing job not carried out but take the payment. sound plasticky rubbing to me, I'd go for plastic timing guides not secure or chain tensioners not doing there job and causing chain slap on the guides. best of luck guys.
Hi, hope you do not mind me suggesting that you try an old trick to identify the source of the noise by using a mechanics stethoscope ( even try a long screwdriver, touch any item press your ear against the end of the driver and identify bearings etc that are causing the source of the noise. ) You have a very competent engineer who is very capable and I am sure you will soon sort this.
We did bud the noise travels 👍
A while ago I invested in an engine stethoscope - you can place the needle anywhere on the engine and hear everything. It's brilliant for locating, and identifying sounds. Worth a try if you have one.
Given the damage to the torx heads, and knackered tensioner, don't as Chris said fill you with confidence. Did somebody actually do the chain job or just claim they had. If they did would somebody lacking basic tools actually be competent to work on this sort of engine. I reckon the chain job needs redoing from scratch.
My moneys on the harmonic pulley about to break which is wobbling and causing something else to vibrate maybe the timing chain guides… I’m sure you’ll get to the bottom of it as usual, fantastic videos 👌🏼
The more I see of modern BMWs, the more I want to keep my old E60 going forever! Good luck with this one gentlemen, I think you're going to need it (but if anyone can sort it, it'll be you two).
Ha. My e61 shat itself numerous times. Water in the spare wheel well ruined 3000 worth of computers twice, cracked it's cylinder head at 80,000 miles. Stranded me with run flats twice, wiring in the boot hinge wore through, self leveling rear suspension compressor failed 5 hours from home... Lovely car, but not reliable in the slightest. I think the newer gen ones are as unreliable as our generation
@@adejenkins crikey! You’d be better off with a mondeo - zero street cred but fairly reliable
@@adejenkins Wow, you have my sympathy! I didn't get that much hassle as I don't have an Tourer, but the water in the spare wheel well? Yeah, been there, done that! Oddly enough, I had a cracked head on my second E34. The MPM didn't cost me that much to replace on mine when it got drowned but it sounds like there's a lot more in the boot of yours, being a Tourer. Mine's now at 310,000 miles.
May be worth checking the endfloat on the crank Chris. Back in my main dealer days we had a few of these with thrust washer failure and they were making a similar kind of noise. May also explain the looks like its wobbling pulley. 👍 Good luck.
Rogue Autos
Your comment takes me back to the Austin Morris E series 2.2 6cyl motor. Had a new one in that had so much end float on the crank that you lost the clutch on the over-run. Turned out that the thrust washers hadn’t been fitted when built. You could watch the bottom pulley move in and out as you blipped the throttle.
Turn it over with the fuel pump fuse pulled to build up pressure in the tensioner before starting, with the tension so tight before the plastic chain guide is probably worn, drain the oil & look for plastic shavings
Maybe the noise is the lost torx socket rattling around.
My bmw e63 a while back started to make a similar noise and all it turned out to be was the oil filter had collapsed . Great channel 👍😎
The twin turbo is a dual scroll turbo. Hence twin turbo power. The tensioners are oil pressure filled. That half moon cog is a eccentric shaft and is to to with the (vvt) variable valve timing , so the oil fed pipe just lubricates the shaft against the valvetronic motor. I’m not sure what the noise is, but would advise taking the vanos solenoids out and cleaning the with brake cleaner and resetting the vanos plates on the cams as these are oil fed and reacts with the timing so it has to be timed up perfectly
You guys commenting do realise that Chris and Rob normally know what the problem is before you actually see the videos, they just ask the questions to get you involved and making comments. 😀
The timing chain guide is fouling the chain cheep chain kit the they don't fit well and vibate I could see the play in the top guide when you wound out the tension bolt there should be no movement 😉
I've been working on bmw for 20 years I know most problems why I have a 335d e90 m57 bullet proof
Twin power turbo refers to a twin scroll turbocharger, which is one turbo with a two stage wheel inside. The first part is light and enables a quick spool and the second stage spins up at the top end of the rev range for maximum POWEERRRRRR 👍🏼
4:29 Anyone else reckon that the second set of photos when the vehicle was on sale in 07-20 where taken at a Copart yard? It looks a lot like a Copart forklift/loader in the background of a Copart loading area.
Yes definitely Copart, lot no. is on the screen. Other photos are at a dealer. Rob seemed to ignore that it's been through Copart. I'm guessing he's saving that info for another video. They're drip feeding the information to keep you watching
I've noticed that cars for sale in the local dealers aren't shifting as quickly as they were, so hopefully that means prices will return to normal(ish) levels.
It's definitely a timing chain issue, whether it be the guide tensioner and even chain.
Guide definitely needs tightening and I would definitely change the tensioner.
Check the chain for any sort of damage/marking.
These engines were given extended 7yr/70,000 mile warranty pre 2015 due to timing chain issues.
70.000 miles and needs a timing chain, these engines must have been made by Cadbury's!!! That's terrible for such a premium car. Great video lads..
the chains can last (if they dont stretch) but the plastic chain guides (to save Fritz a couple of euros) will degrade with time. Looks like not the issue here though.
german scrap yet people still line up to buy them because 'BMW'
I had loads of issues with this engine previously
Firstly I would check the oil pick up in the sump for any plastic debris as the old chain tensioners may have broken up and have been pulled up and gone into the oil pump.
A common problem…
The noise sounds as it is from the front of the engine
Secondly check the timing and the vanos hubs sometimes they give a fault code and no check engine light. As the person who replaced the chain couldn’t be bothered with using the correct tools there is a chance they over looked a few things.
Thirdly investigate the bottom pulley
Take a leaf out of Ian Tyrells book (Tyrell's classic workshop on YT).... I think you need to get a 1/2" inner dia rubber hose, put one end up to your ear and move the other end around the running engine (put it on the ramp so you can get underneath too) this should help find the source of the noise. Apparently these engines are affectionately known as a sewing machine.
I'm taking a guess that the tensioner on the drive chain for the oil pump has failed and its rattling against it housing. Changing this means re-doing the main timing chain, do your research, not an easy job.
As suggested I would lean toward using a stethoscope and looking around the oil pump and sprocket when revving. Worth a try if you don't find it elsewhere. Common on the n20.
Chris is just a genius. You can see him look at an engine and you know he’s thinking of all the possibilities
Looking forward to part 2 of the diagnosis guys. Judging by the damage I'd probably drop a new chain cassette in to be on the same side. If it was making the noise before the chain 'replacement' and still made it afterwards, was it actually swapped at all? Just thinking out loud...
My first thought was the timing chain rubbing against the plastic guide.
Going on from Chris's thought about a longer bolt being put in where a shorter bolt went, is there any metal filings in the oil?
Is there any sign on the front face of the timing chain link pins?
Is it worth removing the front bolts and checking for sign of a clash?
If not then clean the front of the chain and put blue marker ink on the link pins, let it dry and index on to see if the ink shows any scratches.
Friday sruk is perfect... like previously commented... sit down with a beer and chill with Rob n Chris...
Have a good weekend folks
Common issue the crank pulley
It’s 2 piece and separates
Id be looking at the turbo if everything has been done right with the timing chain
Do you mean "crank" pulley??
@@superbear617 god damn auto correct 😂
Gutted you didn't suss it out, but one of the reasons I love the channel. It was a fail, and you still uploaded it, just makes the second part more intriguing
I’m probably way off, but the sound reminded me of the things we did to our bikes back in the 80’s to make them sound like a motorbike 🤣
We’d tape a piece of card to the rear frame so that the card would hit the spokes and make a noise.
Could it be as simple as something like a piece of plastic trim hitting the fan? If not I bet it’s something you’d laugh at when you do find out what it is.
The plastic timing chain guide is loose on the bolts between the two cam phasers looked like you moved it in the video at 20:20
I am with Chris it does sound more plasticity rather than metallic. You have released the tensioner so that problem is solved. We couldn't really see (too dark) but was anything touching the chain that shouldn't be? I only ask because that cover wasn't put on very well, rounded bolts, is it deformed? It is worth checking the turbo as well although the noise doesn't sound like the turbo is 'toast', definitely something that spins though I would say rather than internal. I am 'old school ' so we didn't have all that plastic back in the day but thats how it is now. Thanks again Rob and Chris for another interesting video. Hope you have a great weekend. 👍 👍
Wastegate actuator link.
I would check for excessive end float in the crank, you will need to drop the oil pump out to check it but I have had that similar noise on this engine before and it turned out to be excess end float causing it. BM tech.
Howzit guys. So I bought a 2008 e90 323i. The engine is in a state. But I have the same noise.
On the side of the engine by the chain tensioner you removed. Slightly above it is two vanos filters.
Mine was glogged up so badly and that would also have the vanos solonoids to not get enough oil pressure and might make same noise.
Best way is to remove right front wheel and front wheel arch half and then access them from that side.
Thanks.
Had a similar sound on a transit few years back and it was starter motor staying engaged, but what ever it is I’m sure you will find it. Keep up the good work boys 👍🏻
Done a few of these, timing chains come in a plastic cassette and can guess by the look of the damaged heads and bad tensioner left in there that it will be a bit of (hopefully the old one) cassette in the works hence the plastic 'lollystick in the spokes' type sound.
"Everything's been apart" Not even having the correct tools to remove the reverse Torx screws makes me wonder if it actually has, especially as there's been no change in the noise. Excellent video there as ever gentlemen.
Hold the rev at 3rpm for 3min and you should get rid of ticking noise
It's not a face-lift, it is in fact the first year of manufacturing for the F30. It isn't twin turbo either. It's an N20 single turbo engine. "Twin Power Turbo" is just a BMW marketing term for a twin-scroll turbo.
Who replaced the timing chain. The bottom chain sprocket could be wrong way round causing timing chain to rub oil pump chain.
I'm glad there's a part 2....its better than peaky blinders this!!...😎
Timing chain failure is a known issue on this engine and was the subject of a class action lawsuit in the US. I think the timing chain guides are also prone to failure.
Unlikely to be turbo related as Chris heard the noise when hand turning the engine. Also unlikely to be auxiliary as all disconnected. The frequency of the noise is very high. Higher than crankshaft or camshaft speed. Sounds fast enough to be linked to the speed the cam chain travels. Was the chain ever changed or just a failed attempt? Torx bolts damage implies a clueless amateur. Plastic guides look suspiciously dark for straight out of the box. My suspicion is that the engine made this noise first, then "someone" decided to check the timing chain, decided half way through that it was all too hard, put it all back and the noise was still there. Of course it was. My guess is that it is some collapse of the plastic chain guide which is contacting the links as they pass but would like to do a visual with endoscope to confirm. Best of luck!
I think that sounds like the chain rubbing on a defective, or incorrectly fitted, guide, it's got that metal on plastic sound about it. BMW has had many issues with chains and guides on various engines. at least it is not an N47 engine where the chain is located at the back of the engine! Great video
Yep that guide is the problem I bet
I like Chris explaining or giving his ideas but personally find it frustrating when rob butts in or interrupts Chris when Chris is talking.
Just give him a second to stop or not to talk over each other!
Otherwise another good video 👌
We’re talking between ourselves and filming it this is how we roll every day. Not to be rude this is the comments section maybe we should open a complaints department comments like yours really are frustrating you got free content on a plate 3 times a week yet still feel the need to criticise and moan 🤷♂️
I love these types of videos. Watching the thought process and trial and error - I feel like I’m almost getting an apprenticeship 😂
Removing the aux belt does not elimenate the crank pulley from being the issue as its the one pulley still in motion. Enjoyed this one.
It was a heady mix of Crimewatch, Casualty and Poirot👍👍👍👍Best video yet guys👍
Hi Rob, Thanks for the thumbs up on my part of Kent, Gravesend does sound like a rubbish name but get out into the green parts either side of the A2 and it is lovely.
Didn't the previous owner say it was doing it before the timing chain change? If so it wasnt gonna be anything to do with the timing chain.
This is going to be interesting fellers I’m looking forward to the next episode, apart from the noise it’s a nice motor.
Unbelievable that a 'professional' took this apart with sockets rather than the correct torx tools. I always service my cars myself because you just can't trust anyone these days.
Noticed on the pics from 4:29 it has the plus pack wheels on. Shame as they are nice wheels compared to the other m-sport wheels it arrived with. Wheels obviously added extras as the car is a sport rather than m-sport
I always used a mechanics stethoscope to trace unusual noises from machinery.
N20 known for whine coming from oil pump. It has its own chain, pullies and tensioner. There are also problems with noise coming from harmonic balancer shaft. Water pump is electric so worth checking that out for noise also. A length of hose pipe jammed in one ear to locate the area where the noise is coming from should be your next step!
Get yourselves a stethoscope guy's, I have one that has a long thin probe and its amazing how you can narrow down exactly where the noise is coming from.
I just use a corrugated plastic tube about 3/4" in diameter. It's light, thin and metal free so if it gets stuck in a pulley it won't bust things up.
When I was younger I had a VW Scirocco was making exactly the same noise - turned out the timing belt cover bolts had been put in the wrong place and the cover was just touching the belt - what a racket it made !
Given the job clearly wasn't done professionally and whoever did it, didn't even change the tensioner, I reckon it has broken chain guides.
Yes they should have been changed along with the chain, but what can be seen at the top doesn't look new..
If there is any rattle coming from an engine one of the first things I would do is check the oil for particle contamination. At least it would give you an idea if there is metal on metal rubbing. I'm sure you will get it sorted though. Good luck.
Use a stethoscope on the turbo assembly first then the rest of the engine to locate the noise
Sounds like a collapsed or blocked oil filter which puts strain on the oil pump. Change the oil filter and see if it reduces the noise.
Aren’t you guys gonna try the old long screwdriver against your ear trick to find the source of the noise? 😀
All tried 👍
Rob, on the Car Vertical check you skipped over point 13 'Damage Detected' at 3.04 on the video and the damage record lower down, dated 2020-07, matches the date of the set of photos from the salvage yard. Might have had a bigger accident than the minor bumper scratch. Good luck.
Sound like vanos units try disconnecting vanos solenoids and start her up
Hi to you both, the twin turbo is actually a twin scroll turbo . Meaning two compressors in the same housing. Keep the good work up.
Andy.
That’s the noise you get from or what you call an out of balance impeller vane on the water pump or oil pump defo a fluid pump I would have to VA all the comps to be sure it’s either cracked…or it’s broke off completely and it’s bouncing round you can tell by the resonance
Very well said Carlos, I agree.
Love this channel, diagnostics at their very best, well done guys!
Chris is the Sherlock Holmes of engines. Master mechanic !
Hi Rob, Go into you tube and type in Engine ticking noise in a Bmw F30 and it sounds just like your problem, Its the waste gate Acuator plate thats vibrating when Running
It’s Friday 5 o’clock uesd to be crackerjack but now I’m 60 it’s salvage rebuilds uk with Chris& rob😁 look forward to the next video.👍👍👍
I'd like to see how many cabbages Rob could hold without dropping one though he it too young to know what that meant!
Pull the chain tensioner out again to see if it’s free or stuck. Gen 1 BMW Minis are the same, best to replace it once it’s failed, easy to do and eliminate.
Looking at eliminaton, No chance its the turbo. Turbos spool up and down at higher RPM and independent to engine speed. This noise is aligned to engine speed. Like someone mentioned try and iscolate noise with stethoscope i.e. Front or back of engine
On my sons older 320 a chunk of plastic guide had got jammed lower down. Chuck camera down n have a look or sump off.
I dread to think how much that timing chain replacement cost the previous owner, love watching Chris working away figuring stuff out 👌👍
done it as diy project, costed 200 quids in parts
Good tip about removing the auxiliary belt to eliminate a lot of sources, seems like the whole jobs been a lash up, at least the timing chain is at the front on this BMW lads.
Hard day , just home , now , relax with you lads !!!
worries me that someone who cant use the basic torx sockets is doing a timing chain, theyd also be the ones to buy a cheap chain set and not a decent brand/genuine one, even the pipes the wrong way around etc. you get what you pay for. but im sure you two will have it turned around even if its a small profit trading it on. love watching chris fault finding and it teaches me more every day being a huge car enthusiast and diy on my own cars👍👌
What a dedicated man you are Rob, when you could have been at home with your Mother in law!!
I had to laugh at Chris' comment at 15.06 as I was thinking the exact same thing, not a lot of confidence in the repair if they aren't using the proper tools in the first place!! Always a great show of skills guys!!
Someone's put a lollipop stick in the spokes.... 😂
Often when people skimp out on the job they'll replace the one element, in this case the timing chain, but it would be interesting to reach out to an independent BMW specialist. To see if there other items like oil pump chain or anything like that also needs to be done at the same time. I know what ever happens both you and Chris will get to the bottom of it.
wish this was a hour long! Happy Friday lads!
I have seen something similar to this problem, before.
I would suggest that you check the fan blade on the turbo, in case the bearing has failed and the fan is rubbing.
whatever it turns out to be, I wish you well with this project.
Hi, Great video. It sounds like a turbo noise to me??? Engine and transmission noises are notoriously difficult to diagnose. I remember once 35 years ago basically dismantling my Ford Cortina to find the source of a transmission whine. it turned out to be a rear wheel bearing. The noise travelled up through the axle / diff and prop shaft into the gearbox. Good luck, I look forward to hearing of the root cause.
Hi guys remove the 2 bottom torque bolts holding the either lower timing chain guides the guide can fit in wrong position and also the lower crank full sprocket can get caught at in the guide when installing new chain kit removing and installing whole chain assembly should fix fault or worst case new guides required hope it helps you guys plus probably Chris the guru has figured it out
harmonic balancer/ bottom pully, common fault on a bimmer, it should have very little movement like a bush, your 1 looked like it was on its last legs
Interesting one, looking forward to seeing where the noise is from.
broken bit of chain guide wedged and rubbing against the chain - Could drop the oil and see if any bits in it.
Exactly what I was guessing. Definitely sounds like that
That’s a good shout
It would have worn away it’s been like it for a long time 👍
@@sruk I would drop the oil and run it through a paint filter and see whether you have metallic or plastic bits in it, I agree with you, but depends on the size of the broken bit of guide as it is still an option, but after watching again I still think it is a guide issue either old broken bits or issues with the new guides - for all you know especially with the state of Torx bolts they could of fitted the chain by linking it too the old one and feeding it through etc. - just seems a total lash up - but I would think, the issue started with a broken guide the replacement kit hasn't been fitted correctly and there is still debris in there or dropped down around the oil pump chain or wedged in behind crank Orr oil pump sprockets. But as said would drop the oil to see what's in it and that should give a direction to go in......keep up the good work
New Tensioner Required. The newer Tensioners are longer. Than original fitted. Fit it, let it fill with oil with short drive
Hi Chris, "Twin Turbo" in BMW marketing speak means single turbo, but twin scrolls/inlets. Same on N55 and B58 straight 6. It has been the same marketing talk for a decade now. My F30 N55 engine was also making strange pulley noises at 40k miles, just before I sold it 4y ago, there seems to be a common issue with the auxiliary belt tensioners. Best of luck to get rid of this annoying noise ! 👍
My first thought was timing chain guide. Thinking of the bloke who fixed it didn’t have the right tools then he probably just replaced the chain and refitted all of the used ancillaries?? Is it even the right chain???
Cowboys been working on it. You have found 3 mistakes. How many more are there? You guys are true professionals 👍👍
Rob what ever happened to the F30 engine was looking for the second video and couldn't find it did you back the car or sub it out to someone else was interested on what was found. Cheers guys
Hi Rob / Chris .. looked like the top bridge that sits between the cams was loose.. also looks like the guide on the right hand cam is loose as well .. if the person was using 6 / 12 point sockets on the Torq headed bolts, the bolts that hold the guides may be loose . It sound like the chain is rubbing against a guide ... Hope ya get it sorted .. Andy