Seems like a high temp thermocouple on discharge line shutting down compressor at high temp would be more effective but I guess that would entangle some EEV air handlers that would eventually throw a superheat alarm if compressor stops pumping. Another issue I have come across is air handlers with EEV that turn off blower coincident with compressor turn off. It can cause EEV to totally shut off flow due to quick temp drop on output of EEV when air flow stops and leave its EEV in totally shut off position. Scroll compressor blocks off other end of liquid line preventing back flow into compressor. Sustained liquid line off state pressure causes issue with developing enough differential pressure across scroll compressor top plate sealing disk, causing it to chatter on start-up and beat the sealing disk up long term. Need to have a time delay leaving blower run for a minute beyond compressor shut off to bleed off liquid line refrigerant.
When refrigerant backfeeds you hear it, sounds like air spraying out and inlet temps drop immediately, and if it continues, the bottom of the compressor gets warm. Do a pumpdown test with gauges hooked up. If it cant pull the low side to zero, it is confirmation.
I came here to see the internal design. I'm looking to pump down a functioning split system for sale/transport. Someone else said to not let the low side go into a vacuum because the refrigerant acts as a insulator for the windings and will burn them if you do. My electro/mechanical knowledge of how things are designed immediately told met that's absurd. Someone else said that running it in a vacuum state for any length of time will damage the compressor. I watched several videos of HVAC personnel pumping down systems and you simply put the unit on high cool so the evap has a heat load, close the high side and when the low sided gets to zero, close the low valve [which by that time will cause a little vacuum] and then promptly disconnect the power. If the compressor runs for 30sec with both valves shut is no big deal.
I watched this hoping to understand how my circa 2004 nordyne/miller 4 ton 10 seer heat pump can fail so many different ways and behave so differently in heat versus cool modes. Following a long vacation I attempted to start it in COOL and HEAT modes, but it only buzzed a few seconds with well over 120 amp draw causing lights to dim and voltage dip from 240 to 220. That would repeat at approx 10 minute intervals. The single pole power contactor remained engaged and 240 Vac was provided to the compressor continuously. That inspired me to install a hard start kit and I was able to get compressor running in COOL mode for a few minutes with 22 amp draw, but no appreciable cooling was detected and I think the compressor stopped with no current draw. Had to stop because sunset and I have not been able to repeat this. I also managed to start the compressor in HEAT mode and it behaved well except current draw was 33 amps. The outdoor coil became cold but I did not evaluate supply temperature. After switching back to cool mode I did not get any compressor current after contactor engagement. This makes me wonder if there is some kind or thermal or time delay switch inside the compressor that nobody bothers to mention in the teardown videos? My curiosity is mostly academic because the unit contains R22 and conversion to R22B would be a waste of money. I already have a 5 ton 14 seer replacement on site and will switch over when I receive all of the new ductwork components.
Sounds like the bearings might be tight on that compressor aswell. The hard start kit would definitely help get the compressor moving again but its probably over amping. Those compressors have a thermal disc that disconnects the circuit when the unit over amps/overheats.
@@johnbrown8168 thank you. It figured there had to be some sort of thermal and/or pressure switch inside compressor because sometimes it draws amps when I give 240 Vac and other times it draws none. HINT: discussion of the compressor internal electrical interlocks would be wonderful addition to your teardown videos. My compressor probably needs oil and filter change after 15 years use but I have not watched any videos about that process or about R22B conversation
Hey thanks, you take a lot of mystery out of why the hammer technique works sometimes? Kidding aside I was looking for the oil dipstick on my rooftop unit, but I don't know where it is. Anyways my OFM froze up and the drama commenced, L.S.S. I've got 240vac to the comp. motor, but no spin. I'm thinking internal motor open? What's your thoughts? Thanks again.
hi john thank you very much for useful video please advice how can solve the problem of high temperature protection inside the head of the compressor i have one compressor working with low current and no pumping how can be solved
Only way to reset is to shut the compressor off and let the unit cool down. If it continues to trip on temprature protection your exceeding the rated compression ratio. Either too high of discharge or too low suction, or a combination of both.
Hello John, I don't know if you can help me. Above my apartment there is a heat pump (Aermec NRL0600'H'E '' 'P2), functioning in both cooling and heating mode. There are 4 installed in the machine Copeland Scroll compressors working in pairs: pair1 - model ZP120KQE TFD pair2 - model ZP154KQE TFD Only one couple can work (especially in summer) or both couples (especially in winter) and they have variable speed. Especially in heating mode, the vibration dampers under the machine (isotop sd7, isotop sd8) not able to dampen the vibrations which, as a result, pour into my apartment. Some time ago I viewed the machine together with a vibration expert. According to him isolating in a way appropriate compressors installed inside the machine would lead to good results. Do you know this type of compressors? The speed of rotation? You would be able to recommend antivibration mounts to put under the compressors? thanks 1000
Hello, I have a question about our copeland scroll compressor. (ZS21 K4E-TDF-551 similar to ZB21KCE-TDF-551) It is loosing very few oil at the sight glas. I can only see oil when it is working. I can see nothing at the glass when its not working. So can I simply fill it up. How to do that? I searched for hours now and only found the manual at the emerson webpage. But there is only written the type of oil and that it has to be half filled at the sight glass. So Is it simple? Which kind of tool do i need? The valve at the bottom? I would be very thankful for a short or long answer. Nice Video.
If the compressor has thermal and pressure devices for "self protection" then are you indicating that none of these were successful in protecting this unit? What is the approach to determining a compressor malfunction? Are these protective devices "one time" protection or are these designed to "reset"?
This compressor failed due to contamination in the refrigerant system. Contamination in this case was moisture and air since the installer did not pull a complete vacuum and did not install a filter drier. The temperature protection would activate when the compressor is operating outside its design conditions. Compression ratio and suction temperature would be the two main factors that would cause the compressor to stop pumping.
This is an excellent video and this helped me more than you could actually know.
I work at the Lebanon MO plant, been there for a couple years, great place!
Seems like a high temp thermocouple on discharge line shutting down compressor at high temp would be more effective but I guess that would entangle some EEV air handlers that would eventually throw a superheat alarm if compressor stops pumping.
Another issue I have come across is air handlers with EEV that turn off blower coincident with compressor turn off. It can cause EEV to totally shut off flow due to quick temp drop on output of EEV when air flow stops and leave its EEV in totally shut off position. Scroll compressor blocks off other end of liquid line preventing back flow into compressor. Sustained liquid line off state pressure causes issue with developing enough differential pressure across scroll compressor top plate sealing disk, causing it to chatter on start-up and beat the sealing disk up long term. Need to have a time delay leaving blower run for a minute beyond compressor shut off to bleed off liquid line refrigerant.
When refrigerant backfeeds you hear it, sounds like air spraying out and inlet temps drop immediately, and if it continues, the bottom of the compressor gets warm. Do a pumpdown test with gauges hooked up. If it cant pull the low side to zero, it is confirmation.
Thank you! God bless
Very nice explain Thank you sir 🙏
This gets used in metal fabrication as a scroll maker for fences. Never realised until now
Great video! I have the same compressor but one of the electrical connector pin burnt off. is there to fix it or the compressor is pretty much scrap?
I came here to see the internal design. I'm looking to pump down a functioning split system for sale/transport. Someone else said to not let the low side go into a vacuum because the refrigerant acts as a insulator for the windings and will burn them if you do. My electro/mechanical knowledge of how things are designed immediately told met that's absurd. Someone else said that running it in a vacuum state for any length of time will damage the compressor. I watched several videos of HVAC personnel pumping down systems and you simply put the unit on high cool so the evap has a heat load, close the high side and when the low sided gets to zero, close the low valve [which by that time will cause a little vacuum] and then promptly disconnect the power. If the compressor runs for 30sec with both valves shut is no big deal.
Very good
I watched this hoping to understand how my circa 2004 nordyne/miller 4 ton 10 seer heat pump can fail so many different ways and behave so differently in heat versus cool modes.
Following a long vacation I attempted to start it in COOL and HEAT modes, but it only buzzed a few seconds with well over 120 amp draw causing lights to dim and voltage dip from 240 to 220. That would repeat at approx 10 minute intervals. The single pole power contactor remained engaged and 240 Vac was provided to the compressor continuously.
That inspired me to install a hard start kit and I was able to get compressor running in COOL mode for a few minutes with 22 amp draw, but no appreciable cooling was detected and I think the compressor stopped with no current draw. Had to stop because sunset and I have not been able to repeat this.
I also managed to start the compressor in HEAT mode and it behaved well except current draw was 33 amps. The outdoor coil became cold but I did not evaluate supply temperature. After switching back to cool mode I did not get any compressor current after contactor engagement.
This makes me wonder if there is some kind or thermal or time delay switch inside the compressor that nobody bothers to mention in the teardown videos?
My curiosity is mostly academic because the unit contains R22 and conversion to R22B would be a waste of money. I already have a 5 ton 14 seer replacement on site and will switch over when I receive all of the new ductwork components.
Sounds like the bearings might be tight on that compressor aswell. The hard start kit would definitely help get the compressor moving again but its probably over amping. Those compressors have a thermal disc that disconnects the circuit when the unit over amps/overheats.
@@johnbrown8168 thank you. It figured there had to be some sort of thermal and/or pressure switch inside compressor because sometimes it draws amps when I give 240 Vac and other times it draws none.
HINT: discussion of the compressor internal electrical interlocks would be wonderful addition to your teardown videos.
My compressor probably needs oil and filter change after 15 years use but I have not watched any videos about that process or about R22B conversation
Hey thanks, you take a lot of mystery out of why the hammer technique works sometimes? Kidding aside I was looking for the oil dipstick on my rooftop unit, but I don't know where it is. Anyways my OFM froze up and the drama commenced, L.S.S. I've got 240vac to the comp. motor, but no spin. I'm thinking internal motor open? What's your thoughts? Thanks again.
Is scroll compressor have any copper inside it
Very cool vedio.
gerat work sir g👍👍
GOOD JOB
Sir how can open motor stater and resimble
So what you're saying is "the snap disc will rise up and seal against the top", x4 right?
hi john thank you very much for useful video
please advice how can solve the problem of high temperature protection inside the head of the compressor
i have one compressor working with low current and no pumping how can be solved
Only way to reset is to shut the compressor off and let the unit cool down. If it continues to trip on temprature protection your exceeding the rated compression ratio. Either too high of discharge or too low suction, or a combination of both.
Hello John,
I don't know if you can help me. Above my apartment there is a heat pump (Aermec NRL0600'H'E '' 'P2),
functioning in both cooling and heating mode. There are 4 installed in the machine Copeland Scroll compressors working in pairs:
pair1 - model ZP120KQE TFD
pair2 - model ZP154KQE TFD
Only one couple can work (especially in summer) or both couples (especially in winter) and they have
variable speed.
Especially in heating mode, the vibration dampers under the machine (isotop sd7, isotop sd8)
not able to dampen the vibrations which, as a result, pour into my apartment. Some time ago I viewed the machine together with a vibration expert. According to him isolating in a way appropriate compressors installed inside the machine would lead to good results.
Do you know this type of compressors? The speed of rotation? You would be able to recommend antivibration mounts
to put under the compressors?
thanks 1000
Hello, I have a question about our copeland scroll compressor. (ZS21 K4E-TDF-551 similar to ZB21KCE-TDF-551) It is loosing very few oil at the sight glas. I can only see oil when it is working. I can see nothing at the glass when its not working. So can I simply fill it up. How to do that? I searched for hours now and only found the manual at the emerson webpage. But there is only written the type of oil and that it has to be half filled at the sight glass. So Is it simple? Which kind of tool do i need? The valve at the bottom?
I would be very thankful for a short or long answer.
Nice Video.
try oil separator
❤❤❤😊😊
Do they Scarp value ? I have some laying around.
Same as iron 30c-80c per kilo. Saves disposal costs.
If the compressor has thermal and pressure devices for "self protection" then are you indicating that none of these were successful in protecting this unit?
What is the approach to determining a compressor malfunction? Are these protective devices "one time" protection or are these designed to "reset"?
This compressor failed due to contamination in the refrigerant system. Contamination in this case was moisture and air since the installer did not pull a complete vacuum and did not install a filter drier.
The temperature protection would activate when the compressor is operating outside its design conditions. Compression ratio and suction temperature would be the two main factors that would cause the compressor to stop pumping.
i same work all hvac hot and coolid $ all compresher reapiir
Who the hell would want a solenoid. It goes bad your screwed.
👎