Depends an the game and distances you’re hunting. I do hunt with silencer on close distances on small to medium sized game. Used the 30-06 for years but never been as pleased as with the 308.
And I like that we are free to like what we like and it is good medicine for any deer! Get out, shoot that 308, and enjoy it! Maybe I'll see you around!
The 308 is a great platform for the tasks that you mentioned, in my very humble opinion. I also have a 6.5Cr and it's a good solid round. But my very favorite is my trusty 270. It's bigger and more powerful than the 6.5Cr and every bit is accurate. I live in Central Texas and the 270 is the rifle that goes with me deer hunting.
And that's a good topic for discussion. You're right 308 has more limitations and will make you a better shooter in my opinion. Actually what made me the best shooter is setting up at over 600 yd with a 223 or my 22LR at closer distances. Both rounds are cheap, heavily available, and if used properly will teach you more than anything will.
6.5 is just for the AR guys ... beards , tattoos, flip flops and a bump stock don’t make a man. I’m old and roll with a 60 year old bolt gun in .308 Win and shoot the same groups as the black gun guys with 38 year old junk surplus ammunition with $79 glass.
The only place the 308 has fallen is in the eyes of the Paid Writers. I have shot the 308 since 1969. It was my first centerfire rifle in the army. I still shoot it today. It is my "when something has to be killed, the 308 will do the job.
That's right. If the writers don't pump up the new stuff, they don't get paid. After all, how often can you say the same things about existing cartridges and firearms?
@@Sackmatters Except it actually does shoot that for pretty damn well. One of the guys in the King of 1 mile competition came 20th out of 100+ with a bone stock 24" Ruger RPR in 6.5Creedmoor. It's certainly way better at it that the .308 and that's mainly down to the fact 6.5Cm doesn't go transonic till 1300-1400 yards. I have 3 loads for mine and they are not even hot loads just at 52k psi and not even using the most efficient projectiles are still super sonic past 1250 yards. out of a 24" barrel, a friend with a 28" is even past the 1400 mark. Is it the best definitely not but it outperforms the .308 ballistically with less recoil
.308 is hard to beat when in the field! Moderate recoil, great Bullet selection, and good down range energy, it puts a hurting on deer size game !! Stay Vigilant
.308 is ok. I really like the .30-06 the 30-06 has so many options for projectiles and handloading. For out of the box performance 300 winmag is the way to go!
@@mexital1159 Too much recoil for me, at least for repeated firing. Also this round is harder on barrels than a .308 is. Where a .300 Win Mag excels is when you need the extra velocity for longer ranges.
An excellent cartridge and very accurate. It has a big following among PRS shooters and the 260 Terminator as well. The 260 is one that should have gone a lot farther as a hunting round but it had Remington's poor marketing to help diminish another great round. BOOOOO!
Don’t hate on the 6.5 ...times change my friend I’m sure people were up set when they got rid of the flintlock rifle ....and someday the 6.5 will be replaced also
308 had a good run but it's prime has come and gone nowadays 308's an antiquated old glue horse she's as old and dull as her performance at distance and at those distances a rifle chambered in 308 is ♿handicapped♿ by caliber. 🤣🤣🤣
You are so right sir. I’m 63 and been hunting since my teens. If you look at Remington or Hornady ballistic tables at 75 - 150 yards where 90 % of game is killed, there’s not enough different to mean a thing. All this hip hype is to keep retailers in business pushing new stuff. I’ve dropped deer with everything from .222 Remington to 30-06 they all died. My uncles shot big game in Colorado in the 50’s and 60’s with 30-30 and didn’t even know the meaning of Ballistic coefficient or sectional density or other hype words. Put any centerfire mushrooming bullet in the boiler room and death is certain.
I believe the same thing I taught my children bullet placement is the most important thing no matter true if you shoot a deer with a 300 magnum he's going to be a dead deer but if you shot the same deer in the head with a 22 long rifle he's going to be just as dead
@@calvinlayport3127 Allegedly when I was starving in college I poached a spike buck off the large property I did landscaping on. I had the landowners blessing and even encouragement, I would never shoot out of season or without a tag now. I allegedly used my old Remington model 34 in .22lr that is super quiet and put one in the bucks ear and dropped him on the spot from about fifty yards. We ate well that Christmas….allegedly.
I've never been a huge .308 fan, but it is a solid deer cartridge for the 150lbs whitetail we have in Texas. At 500yds, it's still going right at 2000fps with of energy behind a 150gr bullet. It does this with minimal recoil, 1moa accuracy, and the ability to use high capacity magazines in ARs & M14s. So kept within its limits, it's a pretty damn good cartridge.
Funny looking at this as a Swede. Here we have the exact same relationship with 6.5 as you guys have with the .308. Everyone uses it, their dad used it, there is ammo everywhere cheap and used rifles are traded for 50 bucks, mostly old Mausers. More elk downed in Sweden with 6.5 than any other caliber I think. In Finland it’s the Russian 7,62 because of all the old Mosins around. Whatever works works and most things you are trained with works. 👍
The 6.5 you refer to happens to be an excellent cartridge, superior to the .308. I had an old Karl Gustav Mauser in 6.5. It was beat to hell but the bore and chamber were immaculate. That sucker had sub MOA accuracy. I wish it was a common commercial cartridge here in the USA, because I would be using it.
@@tballstaedt7807 8mm Mauser is better..damn Cannon It's a 1000 yard gun but I've pushed mine to 1,675 yards, guy that influenced me to buy one put rounds to Steel plate 1'967 yards iron sights....ammo was difficult to obtain however EVERY armoury in the world has it..
Same with 308 which is why I sold the Mauser and went ar10 my goal will be 8mm Mauser conversion though switch uppers might have to have a longer chamber but it can be done
over 20 countries use the .308! over 50 yeas now, you think they don't tried different bullets?? but there is still no substitution in the near future!!!
.308 is the only cartridge that I would find in any quantity over the course of the pandemic, everything from ball ammo, hunting ammo to target. The .308 is a great cartridge and it will stay that way for a long time.
@@darrengarcia4937 Lol no one is upset over anything . It's simply not cost effective to replace arms / ammunition with the latest Johnny come lately calibers .
@@johnmilner5485 it is if the new caliber is better in every way. I can reload any caliber i get myself and make price points irrelevant. If that argument was valid people would still use kentucky rifles and such. 30-06 with modern powders and bullets makes 308 useless now.
@@darrengarcia4937 You are overlooking the fact that for many people the cost of replacing the platforms themselves are the biggest factor, then take into account ammo , brass , powder , primer shortages as of late . Another thing you overlook is the simple fact of if it works , why fix / change it ? Not many hunters or recreational shooters are going to be making real world long distance shots ,that maybe necessitate a platform / caliber change . Great you like whatever round , others will disagree .
It hasnt fallen...its still easily one of my favorite rounds. Definitely one of the most versatile rounds of all time. It can and will and has done everything from feed families to defend homes and nations. I will always have a .308..just wish I had a few hundred...thousand rounds.
Up until a couple years ago you could buy a couple hundred thousand rounds in a pallet delivered to your home for about 17 grand. The ammo got cheaper the more you bought. People were pooling their money and ordering and dividing the pallets. Now you would have to get like 4 friends to spend $3k each for a total of $12k for only 10k rounds, netting you only about 2500 rounds each. That is from Freedom Munitions. It might be cheaper elsewhere, been unable to find a pallet in about 3 years.
Though many units across the U.S. military have transitioned to the . 300 Winchester and . 338 Lapua Magnums for long-range use, the . 308 remains a workhorse of the designated marksman and sniper roles.
308 only in specialized units or smaller units given the "expired" left overs from specialized units. Normal unit's designated marksmen and sniper platoons would normally only use 7.62x51 due to being easier to supply and consistency. Unless the unit's members are specialized and trained in reloading their own rounds for a preferred DOPE they will usually just use batches of 7.62x51 and put that information in their DOPE book.
I like the 308, Can use it in the AR platform, the FAL platform & a Bolt action rifle. Great for target, defence & hunting. So taking that into account, the 308 round covers all my needs.
I wouldn't part with my .308. Perfect for my hunting needs and I'm not trying to impress anyone in the woods, I'm just trying to put meat in the freezer.
Have hunted west Texas for 35 years with a 308 Remington pump carbine. 300 lb boar dropped in his tracks at 254 yrds. Never had to track a deer. Can't imagine spending a penny for another gun. It's a tool. Works fine. Lasts a long time. Rise & fall? Musta been a slow day.
The .308 is a trusty workhorse. It does a lot of things well. When I find myself debating on what rifle to take hunting, my 308 is like an old friend. I reach for it and never doubt my selection. It's familiar, reassuring and up to the task. I'll never be without one. And yes, you can find one nearly everywhere you look. This cartridge will be around long after I'm gone and I smile knowing that my Grandchildren will be using my old friend one day. Thanks for sharing this Ron.
Yep I’m in the process of buying a ruger in .308. I like that I can shoot lighter 150 grain bullets and still get the heavier 185 grain bullets as well. I wanted a versatile rifle I could take deer hunting or even target plinking out to 500 comfortably. Anything past 500 won’t be as easy of a shot but I’d like to be capable of it shall I ever need to shoot that far
I’m a 308 man, been shooting it for over 35 years. Really boils down to what you prefer, trigger time is everything!!! If you spend a lifetime perfecting your skill you’ll be proficient with whatever you shoot. I only have access to 1000 yards so I’ve gotten good within that range, I’ve got buddies to take care of the longer stuff! Shoot straight Be safe and enjoy life!!!
It depends on the use. In nrl and prs yup blown out of the water. In traditional hunting it is going neck and neck with the 6.5 creedmoor. 308 is still a great round but it is starting to show its grey in the short action game. But still a great round for all around use, for me it is still a soft spot as the barrels last so long. My 6mm creedmoor is blown out after 2 to 2.5k rounds.
An advantage of 308 is also that it tolerates short barrels relatively well and plays nice with suppressors. Hence also why it is currently having a huge resurgence in parts of Europe.
That's an issue a lot of people don't consider. The hot sub-.30 caliber rounds are hard on barrels. If you only shoot a box or two of ammo before every hunting season, no big deal. But target shooters and the military, it's a consideration. Note that the U.S. Army's new sniper rifle, the Mk22 ASR based on Barrett's MRAD, is chambered in 3 cartridges: 7.62 NATO, .300 Norma Magnum and .338 Norma Magnum. No 6.5's to be found. That says a lot.
@@Chilly_Billy Not really, remember someone high ranked is thinking about the tons of .308 in inventory, them having to adopt 3 new calibers is gonna give them a stroke.
Wrong AntonG 308 has no advantage is in shorter barrels than it's replacement 6.5 Creed. They both loose an average of around 25fps/per inch of barrel loss between 16-26". rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-5-creedmoor-effect-of-barrel-length-on-velocity-cutting-up-a-creedmoor/ rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308-winchester-7-62x51mm-nato-barrel-length-versus-velocity-28-to-16-5/
@@Chilly_Billy That's a great example of why 308 sucks. The only reason the military's new sniper rifle the Barret MRAD (MK22) comes with a 308 barrel is so new recruits to the sniper training program can learn the fundamentals with a lower recoiling round so they don't develop a flinch and also as a cost saving measure allowing training with a lower cost round than the big magnum cartridges. The MRAD will not actually be fielded in 308. Thus what's literally being said here is that the US Military has determined that within their long range target interdiction program 308 is only good for shooting paper targets. Also notice that US SOCOM has rechambered all their DMR's like the M110 and SCAR 20's from 308 to 6.5 Creedmoor because according to them 6.5 Creed; -cuts wind drift by 40% at ALL ranges -decreases drop by a 1/3 at ALL ranges -increases max range by 1/3rd -by 1000 yards it doubles hit probability -increases energy on target by 30% @ 1000 yards soldiersystems.net/2018/03/23/ussocom-adopts-6-5-cm/
@@gsxr1189 There was a reason why I wrote "relatively well" and not "the best". 6.5CM unfortunately can not really be a full replacement for 308. More like an evolution geared towards certain applications like long range and medium game hunting. Its standard loads definitely win in BC/SD and therefore loss of speed at distance and wind deflection. But it falls short in muzzle energy (a delta of close to 600 J) and caliber. So for hunting chamois in the alps a 6.5CM would be close to ideal. But for hunting stag or wild boar, a 6.5CM would be on the anaemic side not to say outright illegal in some places (due to common 7mm minimum caliber requirements for these species). So I was mostly comparing the .308 to other common cartridges common in Europe like 300WM, 7x64, 8x57, 30-06 and 270.
The .308 is a top notch round. I can't count how many deer and wild hogs I've dropped to the .308. I love my 30-06, 300 win mag. and my 7mm rem. mag., but my .308 drops game just the same. Definitely one of America's favorite cartridges from target shooting, to military duties, to putting meat in the freezer.
I enjoy the .270, everything from axis deer, Whitetail, Mule deer, some use it for Elk (admittedly I'm not that brave), boar, all types of bear in NA and you are hardly ever hunting past 400yds. Axis deer are relatively soft, so anything .30 will demolish it. Never figured out why .270win is so overlooked.
@@Riv_Dyl97 You are forgetting rabbits. Watch the videos on the AHP(Australian hunting podcast) channel to see the results. I never knew that a rabbit's arse could fly 10 metres away from it's head in such a miniscule period of time.
@@mattrickard3716 and don't get me wrong, hitting racoons 100-110yds out is not easy, and I like to think I'm a good shot. But you have so little room for error on elk and even heard stories of moose being downed. I just can't brave myself to do it 😬
I own all 3 riffles 6.5 , 300 , 308 My go to rifle is still my 308 , It's never let me down . That old gun has always been ready to take care of business.
.308 arguably has the best barrel life out of most rifle calibers, this is huge in the PRA world 6.5 Creed and 7mm-08 are the only two I know of that rival .308’s barrel life
Yup. I was looking at a 300 Win Mag until I realised they have a barrel life of around 1000 to 1500 rounds. Factor in an extra dollar per shot I guess!
I love my .308 Winchester in my model 70. With the right loads and good bullet placement, there's not too many critters on this planet you cannot take.
308 still reminds me of tons of great memories from 15 years ago getting into Milsurp shooting. The old guys down at the local range were all so awesome to me and my friend and helped us so much getting into them.
In the last 20 some years,I had shot multiple moose and deer in Canada with my Ruger and Tikka in .308 Winchester. Usually, I use Hornady SST 165grain. Great round and almost always available.
Each are good reasons to like your 308 hunting rifles. If that round helps you with successful hunts and you are happy with it, then that is the best round period. I think Ron was trying to give a few stats that would help them with all the options. I love the 270 and I think I have good reasons to, for me. What I hunt in Texas is different though😀
My favorite forum signature of all time was “30 caliber - turning cover into concealment for over 100 years.” Your chart showed over 7% more energy on target at 300 yards compared to 6.5 Creedmoor. More energy, bigger diameter, heavier bullet works well in an awful lot of practical applications. Longer barrel life isn’t a bad characteristic either.
I honestly think you've just proven my biggest issue with 308. To reword what you said, the 6.5 CM has almost 93% of the energy of the 308 at 300y, with less recoil, The problem with 308 vs 6.5 CM is that the only real advantage of 308 is energy under 500 yards, but I'd argue if you NEED that extra energy then you WANT 30-06, leaving 308 as the middle child between the more accurate and easier to shoot 6.5 CM/260, and more powerful 30-06.
@Hfh Yjdkal Are you serious, No one said it can't be done, Just saying it shouldn't be done. And I suppose every Deer you have shot at 600 yards was hit perfectly and dropped in their tracks.
I was a sniper instructor for 45 yrs. I also competed with the .308 for about 50 yrs. I won more TR F-class matches then I can count. I own both the .308 or the Creedmoor lets see where your Creedmoor is in 50 years. I appreciate what you do here. However, you ever laid in the jungle and hunted men? You ever competed against other .308 shooters? Take care, flea
The cartridge has inspired a few different rounds as well , .243 , .260 , .7 mm-08, .338 , .358 . It works for me , I'm sticking to it ! Thanks for sharing the video.
If I remember correctly, the 308 was introduced with an improved powder. Back in the day, the 308 shot the same ballistics as a 30-06 with the old style powder. Same power, but in a smaller package. That’s one of the traits that made it appealing to the military early on. Of course, a 30-06 with new powders will always outperform the 308.
I've been using Grandpa's old Winchester model 88 in .308 since 1979. It shoots very well and has never let me down. With 180 grain bullets it's devastating. 1 shot killer!! It's my favorite rifle!!!
One of the most used hunting rounds in Canada, and we have all the large game! Hasn’t fallen and I love my 308 Winchester! Like any caliber ammunition and rifle quality, it goes from good to great!
It's just the jack of all trades: moderate recoil, decent accuracy at medium range and plentyful. There are cartriges that are better on paper but sometimes just not enough to take its place. I never hunt any further than 300 meters so it's plenty powerful and easily predictable, it just works and the difference with the 6.5 is still negligeble. I guess it's just a matter of application, but whatever you need, .308 winchester is going to do its best.
I usually do my "hunting" at 1,760 yards or more.....my .177 "pellet rifle's" effect range. Anything past 3,520 and I have to switch to a drone strike.......
The .308 is good as a short to medium range sniper round due to how stable it is when penetrating glass and still finding its mark. Higher velocities tend to not do so well for that application.
Also having your short/mid range sniper able to use the same ammo as your machine gunner means one less type of ammo to supply to the front.... If you only have to drop 7.62/51 and 5.56 it's easier than having 4 or 5 types of ammo
Deflection after hitting a branch or glass window is worse the slower a round is moving. Faster is better for decreasing variance after impact. Weight’s primary advantage is maintaining lethal energy after hard barrier penetration. The slower speed will however cause a greater amount of deflection.
Used and loved the 308 for over 30 yrs on Pennsylvania whitetails and some extremely long shots on woodchucks , jumped on the Creedmore bandwagon for a few years and im back to the 308
Thanks Ron for another great speach! .308 win is a great cartridge. Of course I have one Tikka m595 .308win. It's the most popular caliber here in Finland. More moose are shot with it than any other caliber. Even though... I call it a mouse rifle. Yes, it is sufficient for moose with correct shot placement, but bigger ones give a bit more space for human error. I mainly use it for target practice and bird hunts. Basically, if you would own only one rifle, .308 win would be it. Period. Reasons are said by Ron on the video.
@@urwholefamilydied imagine pigeon hunting with a .308... you would know if you hit. it would just be fine red must with grey and white feathers everywhere lol.
Definitely. Notice that in this video I never told anyone to get rid of his or her 308 Win. I might sometimes suggest folks add to the collection, but never subtract.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors I appreciate you listing the pros and cons of the 308 but I think it's the round in the middle of the pack so many rounds will do better than it but some arnt as good as it, funny how the 308 cult freaks out over any little bit of criticism towards it. I wish people would thank modern cartridges for helping the 308 rather than them complaining there average cartridges just isn't the best anymore but I dont think was the best ever. But thank you for just trying to shed so light on this cartridge. Hope you have a good day.
Great summary of the .308 Winchester! I like this Cartridge for target shooting and hunting. Low recoil an high efficiency. Here in Germany perfect for the distances we shoot.
When I was stationed in Germany I got to qualify on the German Military Rifle. I don’t remember it’s name… mid 1990s era. It was a .308 aka 7.62 NATO. I hit 10/10 after a 3 shot grouping to zero. Nice rifle.
I know a guy who grew up by Jackson Hole WY. Started hunting elk at age 14 and now he's late 60s. He's used the .308 Win with 150gr to get an elk every season. I've used 30-06 and it didn't drop big thick bodied mulies any faster or deader than .308. Yeh, the .308 Win is my go-to big game. Certainly beats a .243 Win for grizzly (true story) which some geezer in AK claimed. I don't even like 243 for deer, bad experiences.
@@LuvBorderCollies no he pretty much has gone to the 7mm08 ..same cartridge just brought down to 7 mm it's a great caliber as well it's what I've gone to , but still a fan of 308 too
I use my Browning .308 most of the time because most of the time i'm hunting whitetail deer at 300 or less yards per shot. Most shots under 100 yards. When I do hunt bigger game and or longer range shots I have my Browning 300 Win Mag.
As a European hunter the .308 Winchester will take down every game coming my way. It is a versatile, every available, great performing, high own accuracy caliber. My go-to-caliber by far.
6.5 and 6mm dominate f class. But to each is there own. But 308 used to be the eveybody cartridge. Now people are finding different calibers. Not that 308 aint great. But its far from the only option.
I've seen about fifty deer drop in front of my old 88 Winchester, some at stupid long ranges and I've NEVER lost a deer or spent half a day looking for one. My dad shot a Marlin 336 30-30 his whole life and we spent a LOT of time looking for his deer that fell to good solid hits and ran a quarter of a mile. Had nothing to do with shot placement and everything to do with effectiveness and lack of shock. Many of his torn up much worse than mine, but just refused to die on the spot. I had a friend fill three deer tags at once with his AR 10 at a little over four hundred yards a few years ago, two big does and a yearling. Both does went about fifty yards and the yearling fell where it stood. Not quite ready to trade my .308 off yet for one of the new Wondereens.
@@ditchdigger93 It would be wonderful if the 88 made a comeback a long with the Savage 99 in .308 or even .358 Win. The magazines allows the spire tips which is great. I love the .35 calibers, having shot a .35 Rem in Marlin 336 for years. Deer are DRT. To each their own. I don't criticize others for their favorite rifles or rounds and I wish the 6.5 Creedmore Crowd would extend the same courtesy to us old fashioned deplorables.
@@Mark-uq9km I hate to date myself but the Modell 88 I bought now is now a collectors item. It still works as good as the day I brought it home. I've was given a bunch of .358 Win. brass and bullets one time and I've yet to find anyone who owns one or even another .35 cal rifle that they could use the bullets in. The Model 88 was advertised as a Lever actuated bolt action rifle as it uses a turn bolt design and it is stronger than Hulk Hogan. It is a fine old rifle.
The .308 is one of the most consistent rounds out there. I've been using it for years in a model 70 and a Tikka. Put down many a hog with it and I also have 30-30, 30.06, and 300 Win Mag. I started out hunting with a 7mm Mag, switched to that .308 bullet and never looked back. I'm a believer.
You got it right in your summary and that is the .308 Winchester is a great all around, do all cartridge with an excellent barrel life. For printing paper, hunting and even personal defense set ups it is a must have. This doesn't mean that every man doesn't also need a 30-06, 270, and 300 Win Mag too because we do, and this is just the nature of this hobby and tool kit. But for practical purposes the .308 Winchester just is not lacking. I don't consider 1000 meter shots to be practical practical, but rather a special category and thus the NEED for a 300 Win Mag in my tool box. I know the limits of the .308, but for all intents and general purposes I just love this cartridge.
Question: why did you keep the .308 and not the .30-06? Not a criticism but simply a query as to why you preferred one over the other. I have shot both for years and find the older .30-06 cartridge more versatile as well as better performing at ranges in excess of 500 yards. And that’s for both target shooting and hunting mid- and large game animals.
Good video. One thing I didnt hear mentioned was the barrel length that a .308 can accommodate. Alot of the 6.5’s etc will need a longer barrel, .308 can run a 16” barrel and still be great.
@@genelyda1102 Oh yeah, unless when hunting you plan on having every shot well past 500-750yds and pushing to 1000yds a semi auto 16in AR308 is king. Put a can on the end to help your ears and recoil and it’s a dream at shorter ranges. I got a multi cam cerakoted M5E1 16in .308 model from Aero Precision’s June build set and it’s an absolutely great gun for shooting out to 500yds. I keep a canted red dot on it for close ranges and then a 5-25x on top so I can push the .308 to it’s limits. I got a hydraulic buffer weight and that combined with an adjustable gas block and the suppressor it becomes a real soft shooter that can definitely get the job done. Probably my favorite hunting rifle, although once BCA drops their Magnum AR lineup this fall I’ll be getting a .300win mag model for when I plan on taking shots across long open fields and for when I go out west. For where I live in Florida the .308 can easily get the job done well over 90% of the time, if you live out west its a better choice than a 5.56 and then I’d consider a Magnum .30 like the .300Win Mag even more so. But yeah up close the .308 16in AR is definitely a hunter’s best friend in close up bear territory. I’d rather use my .308 on a bear close range than my 10mm, and no matter the laws keep a 20 or 25rnd mag loaded up ready to go just in case you have to mag dump a charging bear, idgaf what magazine restrictions are in place for hunting, keep just one on you instead of a 5 or 10 round mag that you’re usually made to use for semi auto rifles hunting, it’s a state by state rule though of course.
If my memory serves me correctly, when the first 308 Winchester's were on the market. They were much closer to the 30-06 because of the powders that were being used in factory loads. And I believe that's what gave it the initial edge over the 30-06 and the rest is history.
That was my reading. The 308 is shorter, but it has less body taper and a shorter neck, so it doesn't lose as much powder volume as one might think. Plus, powders had improved in the roughly 50 year time frame. So, military loads of the 30-06 and the 7.62x51 were nearly identical. Modern powders and higher pressures give the 30-06 back its advantage, especially with heavier bullets, but if you want to shoot your Garand, you should be using military pressure/velocity loads.
Exactly. He completely missed the point with his .308/30-06 comparison. You have to compare original .308 loadings to the standard 30-06 of the time. Very comparable ballistics with noticeably less recoil and a shorter action.
This, .308 was basically designed to be .30-06 but taking advantage of newer powder tech that .30-06 at the time did not, same/similar ballistics in a smaller package. That advantage disappears when you start loading .30-06 hotter with the same better powder.
Love my 308's I think for a lot of the same reasons I love my 45 acp's and 12 ga pumps. Reliable, predictable, and effective. I know there's faster and sexier rounds out there but what good is a Corvette when you need a pickup?
Exactly I think you will see things come full circle, I still use my 870 and my Glock .40, people tell me I’m outdated and need to upgrade to the new whiz bang thing but both just like the 45acp have killed a lot more people over the last century than this new stuff.
Nah, I'm good with my .308 rifles. I own two, there might be a third in the mix. No, I don't care for the "Gucci" ammo types. The .308 is proven, and there is enough familiarity that people still shoot it today. Oh sure, you may own a few few 6.5 creedmore rifles, but you also have .308 rifles as well right next to them, and you ain't getting rid of them any time soon. Just remember, the .308 was NEVER special, but it did all that you needed it to do. You never praised it for being great, you never cursed it for not being enough. It may not shoot well past 1,200yds, but you respect what it does in within that range. That's why .308 is still King, even with all the Gucci ammo being made these days.
I have a Savage model 10 .308 Win that I have been shooting for over 20 years now and it still shoots sub MOA out past a thousand yards. I totally agree with you.
No 308 doesn't do well within it's intended range. Used to be that 308 had more energy than 6.5cm for the 1st few hundred yards but they improve on 6.5cm loadings all the time and that situation has changed and that's not a valid argument anymore. So yes let's look at ballistics charts. 6.5 Creed 156gr Berger Hunting VLD Factory loaded ammo BC 0.637 Muzzle 2680fps 2488 ft/lbs 100 2549fps 2251 ft/lbs 200 2422fps 2032 ft/lbs 300 2299fps 1831 ft/lbs 400 2179fps 1645 ft/lbs 500 2063fps 1474 ft/lbs 600 1950fps 1318 ft/lbs bergerbullets.com/product/6-5-mm-creedmoor-156-grain-extreme-outer-limits-eol-elite-hunter/ 308 185gr Berger Hunting VLD Factory loaded ammo BC 0.533 Muzzle 2532fps 2634 ft/lbs 100 2372fps 2311 ft/lbs 200 2217fps 2019 ft/lbs 300 2068fps 1758 ft/lbs 400 1925fps 1523 ft/lbs 500 1787fps 1313 ft/lbs 600 1654fps 1124 ft/lbs bergerbullets.com/product/308-winchester-185gr-classic-hunter/ Notice how; -the 308 goes below 1800fps minimum expansion velocity at 500 yards and the 6.5cm has several hundred to go and that's with this data that's based on 26" barrels if you dropped to a 20" then 308 is going to lose another 150 yards here. -that the 308 only has 5% muzzle energy advantage on 6.5cm which is only 3% by 100 yards and 0% at 200 yards. -Also wind drift data is not posted but we know how that's going to go
@@gsxr1189 Although I appreciate the fascination with long range shooting, as a hunter, if I cannot stalk to within 150 yards of a quarry, I'm not much of a hunter. The great Simo Hayha, who had more than 500 sniper kills in WWII, said he was able to do it because he "got close enough." As for power, a .308 Win round of 168gr Barnes TTSX BC 0.470 at 2700fps has 2352ft/lbs at 100 yards, 2025 ft/lbs at 200 yards, 1734 ft/lbs at 300 yards. More than enough for anything smaller than moose or grizzly bear. So, congratulations on your 6.5 Creedmoor, I see no reason to replace my .308 Win. Strangely, the U.S. military STILL considers the 7.62x51 an anti-personnel round out to 800 yards, where it hits as hard as a .44 Magnum at the muzzle.
@@EternalRecursion Out West sometimes we have to shoot out to 500-600 yards we always try to get closer but it's not always possible. *I do not shoot game further 600 yards* than that but some people do. Also not all of the US military is still a believer in 308. US SOCOM has dumped 308 for 6.5CM because according to them it; -cuts wind drift by 40% at ALL ranges -decreases drop by a 1/3 at ALL ranges -increases max range by 1/3rd -by 1000 yards it doubles hit probability *-increases energy on target by 30% @ 1000 yards* soldiersystems.net/2018/03/23/ussocom-adopts-6-5-cm/
The 308 win and 30-06 have never been my favorite. But these are the two I reccomend to anyone, really good hunting cartridges, and one can get them next to anywhere. Nowadays with 1 in 10 twist in a 308, 180gr bullets stabilize well. The lower velocities don't bother me, less meat damaged at bushveld hunting ranges.
@@joeshleb743 compare apples with apples. The 30-06 will push any bullet faster than a 308 win can. What I am saying is that I don't mind 2650 fps with a 180grain bullet, versus 2800 fps my father can get using that same 180 grain bullet out of his 30-06. I know 2800 fps out of a 308 is possible with lighter bullets, and those the 30-06 will push to over 3000fps.
Comparing today's Creedmoor to decades old 308 is like comparing a 57 Chevy to a new Toyota n asking who gets better gas mileage. I own both 308 and 30 06 and use them both on black bear and whitetail here in PA. Love them both under 400 yards.
@@eddygammill Is that why 30-30 is still America's most popular rifle cartridge? Everything gets replaced by modern technology at some point and for 308 I'm afraid that point has come.
Bought a new rifle last and I bought a .308 Win. I have had outstanding results . Multiple kills and the deer drop right where shot. I shoot the 150 grain round. The .308 Win. is powerful enough for 200 yard shots and that works for me.
The .308 us capable beyond 200 yards. But hats off to you if you limit your shots on game to 200 or less. That's why its called hunting...not long range target shooting.
I'm glad you mentioned barrel life. That was the deciding factor when I was choosing between the creedmoor and the 308. I'm now very pleased with my decision since I like to load subsonic 308 to use with a suppressor. Which wouldn't have been an option if I had made a different choice.
All the positive reasons are why I use the 223/5.56 and the 762/308. Retired Army, and the fact that I could pick them up from any Wal*Mart. Both the 223 and 308 are Goldielocks for me. Thank you for a very good video.
I just bought a new rifle and it’s a 308. I could’ve bought any rifle I wanted and I chose that caliber. I do have a 65 Creedmoor a 270 and a 30 Ott six. I had to have it. I Hunt I don’t do too much range type shooting or even care if it’s within 300 yards I won’t hesitate.
I think it's more to do with the machine guns which are typically used at greater ranges than the infantry rifles are and the 6.5 just fell short. Keep in mind the 6.5 Japanese wasn't 6.5 Creedmore.
Iv'e had alot of guns over my 73 years. My fav was a Remington 600 Mohawk in 308 Win. Got my best mule deer with it. A 5x6 which weighed out at 235lbs skined and guted at the butcher shop. Hand loads with 150 grain Hornady spire points. Sweet!
You have one sweet rifle. My neighbor had two of them had a range in his back yard did allot of shooting there with him shot one hole 10 shot groups all-day at 100 yds. All I got were cloverleafs with my sporterized 1908 czheck mauser. Won't take anything for my 308 mauser, But that 600 mohawk shot sweet all with built up handloads of course. Those mohawk s are good shooters.
178-180 grain bullets are very accurate out of my .308 Winchester Savage model 11,consistently 1 MOA or less from a bench. I don’t need to shoot past 300 yards where I hunt and the accuracy of my .308 easily makes that possible if I do my part. I have never seen the need to go to a different cartridge for my needs.
The 7.62 Ball round came loaded with a 147 grain FMJ. The idea was to make a less costly military round that could be used in every military platform weapon that was effective on enemy troops. It uses fewer materials to construct and was easier to produce because it was similar to the 30 caliber ball round it replaced. It increased magazine capacity and reduced weight. It still lingers around because the 5.56 ball round lacks the power and longer effective range it provides. You can measure popularity by ammo sales; but that has nothing to do with a cartridge’s effective use. If people are buying AR platform rifles like new underwear; that shoot ammo like a leaking water pipe. Certainly you are going to sell lots of that cartridge size ammo. The only thing that is for sure is; ammo manufacturers make more money if people use rifles that shoot lots of ammo real fast. And the rifle doing the shooting ejects the spent and dented brass into places unknown making it difficult to find and reload. New cartridges come and go; and so far the 30-06 and .308 Winchester are still standing when the smoke clears. Every 6.5 whatever you call them is no better than what was used in the past. Because it is the one pulling the trigger that matters. If it costs $5 dollars every time you pull the trigger that makes some seriously costly shooting practice. That’s what I think.
Concur 100%. I’m a big fan of the .30-06 because it’s a proven killer and versatile as they come. Yeah, the recoil is at the top level of tolerance for many but if you practice with it enough you lose that tendency to flinch. It’s also cheaper and that means you’re more likely to shoot it regularly.
Great Video on the 308, What i find great about the 308 is its just has enough recoil to be confortable to shoot. You dont get bored of it like a lot of smaller rifle calibers. The recoil is enough to let you no you are still firing a high powered rifle, and it puts a big old smile on your face. And it gives a shooter less flinches and confidence to shoot more accurate. And its plenty accurate. Take Care!
Couldn't say it better sir! I think the days of the "rumors" of the . 308 being a 1000yd or 1200yd rifle are gone. Once the hype is gone, the sweet reality remains...... out to 800 yards the . 308 is just so prime to shoot!! Just an accurate and plenty powerful rifle round that can be shot with military FMJ for so much gun. Great round 😄👍
He's not wrong, that is just the basic law of supply and demand from a capitalistic economy. If demand for 6.5 Creed is higher than that of .308, companies can and will charge more for it.......
@@rogerknight2267 By today's standards and the current ammo price gouging, $2.25 for a premium ammo like Nosler sounds like a deal. But still entirely too much for one pull of the trigger...........
Before the pandemic match grade 6.5 was about 80-90 cpr, amd you could find lesser quality such as S&B for even cheaper. By using that logic I could also say 357 sig is a better round than 9 mm because one place sells sig for 80 cpr and 9mm for $2 per round.
@@joeymeyer8261 yup i run 300win mag myself for hunting up northern Alberta before the shortage ammo was 70 a box for either the Barnes or 60 for the Hornady. now we're well into $90+ where my wife's .308 is only like 40-50 bucks to feed.
.308 is a great ambassador into the shooting community for beginners. Amazing to reload with the amount of pills and data out there. Amazing to learn to manage recoil and adjusting elevation/reading wind. Every rifle manufacturer chambers a firearm for it, and every ammo manufacturer makes it. It's suitable for any game in North America. What's not to love?
I love my CTR Tikka 308. Fitted over a KRG bravo, glass a tract toric 20x50. Shoots best At least on mine anyways. 155 Gr match. Thing makes me look like a well seasoned shooter.
I think the 22-250 Rem was the best sniper round ever used by the LAPD. A big thing is you can always get bigger or faster but efficiency is about doing what you need to with the minimum amount needed. People will put rounds down because something is better but ultimately, especially with the military, things can be good enough.
I got a sub $1200 complete setup in 308. Anyone who says 308 can't be a long range cartridge is crazy. Sure maybe past 1000 yards it's not as good as some of the newer calibers but to a 1000 yards it's fine, and I don't even know any ranges near me that have over a thousand yards. If you got a good calculator and all the correct information on ammo speed, windage, ect you can take surplus ammo out to 1000 without much trouble.
True, Brett, you can take it to 1000 yards, but it's more challenging than many others like the Creedmoor due to the slower MV resulting from pushing heavy bullets to match the 6.5's high B.C.s. Always a trade off there.
When I was looking to buy my first weapons, my philosophy was to find a round I felt would do the best all around job. I looked at who was using what and how could I get rounds if I needed them? I purchased .223, .308 rifles and 9mm, .40S&W handguns. My thought was, if the SHIF, what are the most abundant rounds that would be available? I have since been able to afford more weapons to tailor my shooting, but just starting out (new buyers) and for longevity (availability and customization of rounds) it is tough to beat the .308. Good vid. Thanks, Ron.
Great advice to anyone minimizing calibers or not in a position to crazy stock a safe. I 100% agree - 9mm, .223, .308 I would also say 12g and .357Mag are handy "common" calibers. I'm a 10mm fan BUT..... that is because I already HAVE a 9mm AND I can load my own 10mm. I would never recommend it as an ONLY pistol.
As someone who doesn't feel the need to have an armory, this is my reason right here. My first purchases were a 556 AR, 9mm pistol, 12ga shotgun and a .308 AR to round it out. I can do just about anything I could need to with firearms adequately, if not ideally with these. Anything more is specific-purpose driven.
@@scottcripe5009 noooooo way anyway anybody loves carrying that pig in the bush. When I signed up as an 11B with the local ARNG unit in 1985 all the good positions were held by the old farts. Top tried to snooker me into that pig . I laughed and said I’d been an Army MP and knew Alllll about the pig as it was one of our 😾primary field weapons in Germany. Of course we had them on pintle mounts on Jeep’s but I’d lunged a couple around enough to avoid the thing. He offered me the Grenadier / Squad Auto spot which I could deal with. The (Slut) M203 was ungainly but nowhere near the hassle of lugging that heavy as machine gun in the bush.
Ron I am a member of a thousand yard benchrest club and the most popular round is the 284 winchester which does fit in a short action. It is better in nearly way than a .308. as it holds more powder it has a higher velocity, with a much higher BC. It handles a 180 grain projectile and even up to 195 grains, giving it a huge advantage with its BC. So with a higher velosity and a higher BC it has better wind control and less drop and will beat a .308 any day. It is a very handy load for 1200 yards. the only one advantage the .308 has is a longer barrel life.In my opinion there are many cartridges better than the .308. I have won more competetions with the 300 Weatherby than any other rifle using berger 215 grain projectiles with a BC of .696 which really gets through the wind.
The old 284 Win. has been one of my favs. since the late 1980s. So cool to see it flourishing as a long range target round. I use it in an Ultra LIght M20 for mountain hunting.
Actually Ron, some cartridges do contain what we refer to as "Inherent accuracy" while others do not, and the .308 Winchester cartridge most certainly is one such cartridge! This cartridge has set records in 1,000 yard competitions and everything in between! Then, we go out into the hunting fields for big game, where the .308 Winchester has been making a very respectable name for itself for many years, taking deer, bear, elk and moose to name a few! I've been hand loading for this cartridge for 50 years and have found it to be very accurate and very effective for any purpose that I put it to. I have been a certified LE Sniper and I have used it for that work to, but I have used it mostly for the hunting of big game and out to 300 to 350 yards, it puts meat on the table, PERIOD! If I'm after bigger and farther out tougher animals, I have a .300 Winchester magnum that I also hand load for that no puny little 6.5 creedmoor can ever hope to keep up with. The .308 hasn't fell, isn't falling and is sitting very comfortably on its seat near the TOP of hunting cartridges right here in America and always will be! We'll see where the 6.5 creedmoor is in 70 years or so... ;)
@@bairdmilam6352 a cartridge can be more accurate than another because it’s shape and how it sits in the chamber of a rifle in terms of consistent headspace and such. Also if the shape of the cartridge allows for complete and consistent powder burning. A wider shorter case is better than a narrow long case with regard to powder burning.
@@kenstirling5348 Okay, so consistent headspace requires consistency on the part of firearm and ammunition manufacturers. Which is truer of 7.62x51 than 308 win. Yes, short and wide cases burn powder more consistently. But I don't think anyone is calling the 308 win a short and wide cartridge. So I'm left wondering why Titus thinks the 308 is an inherently more accurate cartridge.
@@rgalletta58, Thanks for a great "way back when" recollection I just had. It was one of the "not miss" programs when I stayed over with my grandparents. I am 51, but as soon as I saw the reference to MofO WK I relived a great period of my childhood 45 years ago. They also watched The Lawrence Welk Show which brings back memories of painful viewing, lol.
I don't use .308 but I do use 8mm Mauser and I have to agree with your assessment of the .308 round being fairly balanced. Another thing that it has going for it is that it was readily available prior to the pandemic run on ammo.
I was just in West Virginia where they still have ammo, but they don't have any .308 because that's what so many bought thinking it would always be available!
@@papatorr3669 that's tough. But down here in Texas we've got some .308 and 7.62x39. Everybody's using 5.56/.223 guns so us people using SKS carbines and AKs or .308 rifles can still shoot. O_o
I love it when they say "let's take a look at _blank_", then show you two different things at the same time without telling you what's what and I'm supposed to know?? Like when u showed the two bullets @3:12. Great, thanks for the bullet picture, awesome, now I know exactly.
He's right guys!
The 308 has been deemed useless and inferior!
Please send me your favorite 308 and all the ammo you have.
Amen!
Send them to you? Hey! No cutting in the line.
I love my 308 and will continue its use.
My Thompson Center Icon in .308 Win is my favorite rifle to shoot
@@noamjnhbgvfcdxs5698 Scammer
Regardless of what the .308 Win. "isn't", the .308 Win. is, has been and always will be an outstanding hunting round.
Same for the .30-30, and a whole lotta others too
@Kenny Reilly
Yep in a slick model 99 I would have no problem hunting elk with it.
Good ole .45 never failed me either.
Depends an the game and distances you’re hunting. I do hunt with silencer on close distances on small to medium sized game. Used the 30-06 for years but never been as pleased as with the 308.
THE BEST ONE DO IT ALL ROUND IN A SHORT ACTION!!
.308 isnt going anywhere anytime soon. People love it and it's still a relevant and very good game, precision and battle rifle cartridge.
I can buy 1000 rounds of 7.62x39 for at least half the cost while still maintaining the same terminal ballistics
@@danikaflorence444 but not at 1000 yards.
@@damian5479 .308 ballistics at 1000 yards are not ethical or legal for hunting and you won't convince any jury on a 1000 yard defensive shot.
@@jarredlkling Yes you are right.
I comment about long range shooting.
@@danikaflorence444 yes but clearly not out to the same range.
I used the 308 in Vietnam, and I've used it on many deer. Still my favorite rifle round, bar none.
And I like that we are free to like what we like and it is good medicine for any deer! Get out, shoot that 308, and enjoy it! Maybe I'll see you around!
The 308 is a great platform for the tasks that you mentioned, in my very humble opinion. I also have a 6.5Cr and it's a good solid round. But my very favorite is my trusty 270. It's bigger and more powerful than the 6.5Cr and every bit is accurate. I live in Central Texas and the 270 is the rifle that goes with me deer hunting.
Ironically all my friends that got into the 6.5mm craze, return to the 308 as it's challenging and it's what will make you a good shooter.
And that's a good topic for discussion. You're right 308 has more limitations and will make you a better shooter in my opinion. Actually what made me the best shooter is setting up at over 600 yd with a 223 or my 22LR at closer distances. Both rounds are cheap, heavily available, and if used properly will teach you more than anything will.
My Dad said M14 was very accurate
308 is everywhere, even during this shortage. I can't remember the last time I saw 6.5 creedmoor in stock.
Also, the nato ammo can be found relatively cheap for plinking/ practice.
@@geebroni4118Normally, I would agree with this, but during this shortage, I've been able to find 308 more readily than 762x51. No idea why.
It's awsome watching those 6.5 clowns that can't shoot pick a box of 308 now a days
6.5 is just for the AR guys ... beards , tattoos, flip flops and a bump stock don’t make a man. I’m old and roll with a 60 year old bolt gun in .308 Win and shoot the same groups as the black gun guys with 38 year old junk surplus ammunition with $79 glass.
Facts
The only place the 308 has fallen is in the eyes of the Paid Writers. I have shot the 308 since 1969. It was my first centerfire rifle in the army. I still shoot it today. It is my "when something has to be killed, the 308 will do the job.
Damn right love the 308
That's right. If the writers don't pump up the new stuff, they don't get paid. After all, how often can you say the same things about existing cartridges and firearms?
Let me know when you wanna shoot past 1200 yard consistently
@@joshjamesguitar you do not get the point. A 308 is not meant or designed to shoot that far. Neither is a 6.5.
@@Sackmatters Except it actually does shoot that for pretty damn well. One of the guys in the King of 1 mile competition came 20th out of 100+ with a bone stock 24" Ruger RPR in 6.5Creedmoor. It's certainly way better at it that the .308 and that's mainly down to the fact 6.5Cm doesn't go transonic till 1300-1400 yards. I have 3 loads for mine and they are not even hot loads just at 52k psi and not even using the most efficient projectiles are still super sonic past 1250 yards. out of a 24" barrel, a friend with a 28" is even past the 1400 mark.
Is it the best definitely not but it outperforms the .308 ballistically with less recoil
.308 is hard to beat when in the field! Moderate recoil, great Bullet selection, and good down range energy, it puts a hurting on deer size game !! Stay Vigilant
It puts a hurt on anything it shoots ! If you want to use it for anything bigger they make specialty ammo that outputs close to magnum numbers.
Well said!! God Speed.
.308 is ok. I really like the .30-06 the 30-06 has so many options for projectiles and handloading. For out of the box performance 300 winmag is the way to go!
@@mexital1159 Too much recoil for me, at least for repeated firing. Also this round is harder on barrels than a .308 is. Where a .300 Win Mag excels is when you need the extra velocity for longer ranges.
Oh yeah with slightly more powder above specs!!
All I can say is the .308 has never let me down. It has put many deer in my freezer.
Who can fault the 308 for that?
260 Remington
An excellent cartridge and very accurate. It has a big following among PRS shooters and the 260 Terminator as well. The 260 is one that should have gone a lot farther as a hunting round but it had Remington's poor marketing to help diminish another great round. BOOOOO!
Wouldn't want any other. Love my Winchester 308. Adios 🤠
@@Jeff_Seely I can fault it for not keeping my tracking skills honed. Everything's just laying there dead.
How do you know a guy shoots a 6.5 Creedmoor?
Just wait 5 seconds... He'll tell you.
Don’t hate on the 6.5 ...times change my friend I’m sure people were up set when they got rid of the flintlock rifle ....and someday the 6.5 will be replaced also
6.5 Needmore
308 had a good run but it's prime has come and gone nowadays 308's an antiquated old glue horse she's as old and dull as her performance at distance and at those distances a rifle chambered in 308 is ♿handicapped♿ by caliber. 🤣🤣🤣
Fellas, I'm not knocking 6.5 CM... It's what my daughter shoots.
@@oldschooljack3479 obviously she gets her common sense from her mother then
after hunting 50 yrs. ive come to believe almost anything can be killed with almost anything...i love my .308
same here. l have killed them with . 223 to 3006,many calibers in between,
You are so right sir. I’m 63 and been hunting since my teens. If you look at Remington or Hornady ballistic tables at 75 - 150 yards where 90 % of game is killed, there’s not enough different to mean a thing. All this hip hype is to keep retailers in business pushing new stuff. I’ve dropped deer with everything from .222 Remington to 30-06 they all died. My uncles shot big game in Colorado in the 50’s and 60’s with 30-30 and didn’t even know the meaning of Ballistic coefficient or sectional density or other hype words. Put any centerfire mushrooming bullet in the boiler room and death is certain.
I believe the same thing I taught my children bullet placement is the most important thing no matter true if you shoot a deer with a 300 magnum he's going to be a dead deer but if you shot the same deer in the head with a 22 long rifle he's going to be just as dead
@@calvinlayport3127 Allegedly when I was starving in college I poached a spike buck off the large property I did landscaping on. I had the landowners blessing and even encouragement, I would never shoot out of season or without a tag now. I allegedly used my old Remington model 34 in .22lr that is super quiet and put one in the bucks ear and dropped him on the spot from about fifty yards. We ate well that Christmas….allegedly.
@@calvinlayport3127 Bingo
I’m sticking to my .308win. We’ve been together for a long time and we belong together forever.
amen
Amen me too 308
Same I will not part with my 308!
Why not both? 🤔
Ya .. this cowboy doesn’t know ..
308 is loyal ..
I've never been a huge .308 fan, but it is a solid deer cartridge for the 150lbs whitetail we have in Texas. At 500yds, it's still going right at 2000fps with of energy behind a 150gr bullet. It does this with minimal recoil, 1moa accuracy, and the ability to use high capacity magazines in ARs & M14s. So kept within its limits, it's a pretty damn good cartridge.
Funny looking at this as a Swede. Here we have the exact same relationship with 6.5 as you guys have with the .308. Everyone uses it, their dad used it, there is ammo everywhere cheap and used rifles are traded for 50 bucks, mostly old Mausers. More elk downed in Sweden with 6.5 than any other caliber I think. In Finland it’s the Russian 7,62 because of all the old Mosins around. Whatever works works and most things you are trained with works. 👍
Facts
The 6.5 you refer to happens to be an excellent cartridge, superior to the .308. I had an old Karl Gustav Mauser in 6.5. It was beat to hell but the bore and chamber were immaculate. That sucker had sub MOA accuracy. I wish it was a common commercial cartridge here in the USA, because I would be using it.
@@tballstaedt7807 8mm Mauser is better..damn Cannon It's a 1000 yard gun but I've pushed mine to 1,675 yards, guy that influenced me to buy one put rounds to Steel plate 1'967 yards iron sights....ammo was difficult to obtain however EVERY armoury in the world has it..
Same with 308 which is why I sold the Mauser and went ar10 my goal will be 8mm Mauser conversion though switch uppers might have to have a longer chamber but it can be done
@@mjolnirswrath23 yes the 8mm is an excellent cartridge too. An 8mm AR10 would be very interesting indeed.
.308 is like my car, it's paid for, runs great and there's gas in the tank.
@old rabidus It just keeps getting better👍
Factory ammunition available in stock
9mm 556 223 45 6.5 380 300blk and many others you can contact us at
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the best short action bullet!! the 30-06 is simply to big, and the 308 is powerful enough for for so many jobs
over 20 countries use the .308! over 50 yeas now, you think they don't tried different bullets?? but there is still no substitution in the near future!!!
It's the 45ACP of hunting Rifles.. it's big, it Works, and hits like Hell. I like Both 45acp and 308.
The 308 is around to stay for a long time.
.308 is the only cartridge that I would find in any quantity over the course of the pandemic, everything from ball ammo, hunting ammo to target.
The .308 is a great cartridge and it will stay that way for a long time.
There were a few months during the last ammocrush where .308 was cheaper than 5.56/.223
I found it but at the same price as 30-06 which is a ripoff
Exactly why I bought mine
Thanks, that's my take also. There are dozens of new whizbang cartridges out. Try finding and buying a thousand rounds of it though.
I've never seen a boar or a buck get up a walk away from a .308 softpoint. Plus it's plentiful and reasonably priced. So I'm a huge
.308 fanboy.
Same with 30-06 , which is my go to. No need for all these trendy new calibers .
Its too easy to spot fudds these days who are upset that the rounds they shoot are becoming obsolescent.
@@darrengarcia4937 Lol no one is upset over anything . It's simply not cost effective to replace arms / ammunition with the latest Johnny come lately calibers .
@@johnmilner5485 it is if the new caliber is better in every way. I can reload any caliber i get myself and make price points irrelevant. If that argument was valid people would still use kentucky rifles and such. 30-06 with modern powders and bullets makes 308 useless now.
@@darrengarcia4937 You are overlooking the fact that for many people the cost of replacing the platforms themselves are the biggest factor, then take into account ammo , brass , powder , primer shortages as of late . Another thing you overlook is the simple fact of if it works , why fix / change it ? Not many hunters or recreational shooters are going to be making real world long distance shots ,that maybe necessitate a platform / caliber change . Great you like whatever round , others will disagree .
It hasnt fallen...its still easily one of my favorite rounds. Definitely one of the most versatile rounds of all time. It can and will and has done everything from feed families to defend homes and nations. I will always have a .308..just wish I had a few hundred...thousand rounds.
That is all I do shoot!!
>100,000 rounds in the hands of a highly effective marksman? That that's what our last Fourth of July and the Hitler's Fourth Reicht needed...hahaha.
Exactly right. Luckily i stocked up on .308 brass,primers and powder before the planned shortages came into effect.
@@sickofthebullshit1967 theres never been a bad time to have a bunch of ammo.
Up until a couple years ago you could buy a couple hundred thousand rounds in a pallet delivered to your home for about 17 grand. The ammo got cheaper the more you bought.
People were pooling their money and ordering and dividing the pallets.
Now you would have to get like 4 friends to spend $3k each for a total of $12k for only 10k rounds, netting you only about 2500 rounds each.
That is from Freedom Munitions.
It might be cheaper elsewhere, been unable to find a pallet in about 3 years.
It may not be the best at anything but it’s awfully good as a deer and hog cartridge.
It holds it’s own as an intermediate range elk cartridge with high quality bullets. Of course, high quality bullets are always a good idea on elk.
@@nmelkhunter1 not many elk in South Texas and I’ve never hunted elk. But I’m certain that you are right.
Let's not forget the round In its military uniform, 7.62 NATO. It has made a lot of "good" Communists for about 60 years.
@@nmelkhunter1 It’s a viable moose and bear gun too. Lots of people carry it here in Alaska.
@@Chilly_Billy Funny! 😂🤣😂🤣
Though many units across the U.S. military have transitioned to the . 300 Winchester and . 338 Lapua Magnums for long-range use, the . 308 remains a workhorse of the designated marksman and sniper roles.
308 only in specialized units or smaller units given the "expired" left overs from specialized units.
Normal unit's designated marksmen and sniper platoons would normally only use 7.62x51 due to being easier to supply and consistency.
Unless the unit's members are specialized and trained in reloading their own rounds for a preferred DOPE they will usually just use batches of 7.62x51 and put that information in their DOPE book.
The only thing I’ve seen .308 still used for is in a m240. That’s a lot of fun in a
Hand carried package, but as a sniper round, no it is not.
@@alexmills1329 And the DMR.
I like the 308, Can use it in the AR platform, the FAL platform & a Bolt action rifle. Great for target, defence & hunting. So taking that into account, the 308 round covers all my needs.
.308 is my favorite round!!!
Best all around full power round. Creedmoor is too specialized for long range shooting. Springfield too long.
Along with my .270 Winchester my .308 covers everything I hunt. So, I'll stick with them and move on taking whitetail, pronghorn, mule deer, elk, etc.
223 and 308 all I need
It's good enough at everything and it's easy to come by.
I like both 308w and 30-06, but 308 fits me better as a hunter.
1) Shorter barrel (option)
2) Less recoil
3) Cheaper ammunition
I love 06 As well. I made my compromise for the short action of the .308
WalMart charges same price for 30-06 and 308
The .308 ammo I’ve seen costs more than the 06.
@@dennishein2812 I don’t know where you’ve looked but .308 cost about $.50 a round compared to a $1.20 or so for 30-06
@@megabytes6434 before this pandemic shortage I was getting 06 for $16-18. The .308 was running $21-22.
I wouldn't part with my .308. Perfect for my hunting needs and I'm not trying to impress anyone in the woods, I'm just trying to put meat in the freezer.
Your a great guitar player man 😁
It’s certainly a good cartridge for that as long as you don’t stretch the range beyond what’s practical for the.308
Have hunted west Texas for 35 years with a 308 Remington pump carbine. 300 lb boar dropped in his tracks at 254 yrds. Never had to track a deer.
Can't imagine spending a penny for another gun.
It's a tool. Works fine. Lasts a long time.
Rise & fall?
Musta been a slow day.
The .308 is a trusty workhorse. It does a lot of things well. When I find myself debating on what rifle to take hunting, my 308 is like an old friend. I reach for it and never doubt my selection. It's familiar, reassuring and up to the task. I'll never be without one. And yes, you can find one nearly everywhere you look. This cartridge will be around long after I'm gone and I smile knowing that my Grandchildren will be using my old friend one day. Thanks for sharing this Ron.
Yep I’m in the process of buying a ruger in .308. I like that I can shoot lighter 150 grain bullets and still get the heavier 185 grain bullets as well. I wanted a versatile rifle I could take deer hunting or even target plinking out to 500 comfortably. Anything past 500 won’t be as easy of a shot but I’d like to be capable of it shall I ever need to shoot that far
I’m a 308 man, been shooting it for over 35 years. Really boils down to what you prefer, trigger time is everything!!! If you spend a lifetime perfecting your skill you’ll be proficient with whatever you shoot. I only have access to 1000 yards so I’ve gotten good within that range, I’ve got buddies to take care of the longer stuff! Shoot straight Be safe and enjoy life!!!
308 is still the most popular round idk how it’s fallen out
It depends on the use. In nrl and prs yup blown out of the water. In traditional hunting it is going neck and neck with the 6.5 creedmoor. 308 is still a great round but it is starting to show its grey in the short action game. But still a great round for all around use, for me it is still a soft spot as the barrels last so long. My 6mm creedmoor is blown out after 2 to 2.5k rounds.
Because spomer says so
@Jackson Scott You've got it, Jackson.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors one day those 308 shells will be currency:-b
@@thewizardofcroagz394 That time may already be here!
An advantage of 308 is also that it tolerates short barrels relatively well and plays nice with suppressors.
Hence also why it is currently having a huge resurgence in parts of Europe.
That's an issue a lot of people don't consider. The hot sub-.30 caliber rounds are hard on barrels. If you only shoot a box or two of ammo before every hunting season, no big deal. But target shooters and the military, it's a consideration. Note that the U.S. Army's new sniper rifle, the Mk22 ASR based on Barrett's MRAD, is chambered in 3 cartridges: 7.62 NATO, .300 Norma Magnum and .338 Norma Magnum. No 6.5's to be found. That says a lot.
@@Chilly_Billy Not really, remember someone high ranked is thinking about the tons of .308 in inventory, them having to adopt 3 new calibers is gonna give them a stroke.
Wrong AntonG 308 has no advantage is in shorter barrels than it's replacement 6.5 Creed. They both loose an average of around 25fps/per inch of barrel loss between 16-26".
rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-5-creedmoor-effect-of-barrel-length-on-velocity-cutting-up-a-creedmoor/
rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308-winchester-7-62x51mm-nato-barrel-length-versus-velocity-28-to-16-5/
@@Chilly_Billy That's a great example of why 308 sucks. The only reason the military's new sniper rifle the Barret MRAD (MK22) comes with a 308 barrel is so new recruits to the sniper training program can learn the fundamentals with a lower recoiling round so they don't develop a flinch and also as a cost saving measure allowing training with a lower cost round than the big magnum cartridges. The MRAD will not actually be fielded in 308. Thus what's literally being said here is that the US Military has determined that within their long range target interdiction program 308 is only good for shooting paper targets. Also notice that US SOCOM has rechambered all their DMR's like the M110 and SCAR 20's from 308 to 6.5 Creedmoor because according to them 6.5 Creed;
-cuts wind drift by 40% at ALL ranges
-decreases drop by a 1/3 at ALL ranges
-increases max range by 1/3rd
-by 1000 yards it doubles hit probability
-increases energy on target by 30% @ 1000 yards
soldiersystems.net/2018/03/23/ussocom-adopts-6-5-cm/
@@gsxr1189 There was a reason why I wrote "relatively well" and not "the best".
6.5CM unfortunately can not really be a full replacement for 308. More like an evolution geared towards certain applications like long range and medium game hunting. Its standard loads definitely win in BC/SD and therefore loss of speed at distance and wind deflection. But it falls short in muzzle energy (a delta of close to 600 J) and caliber.
So for hunting chamois in the alps a 6.5CM would be close to ideal. But for hunting stag or wild boar, a 6.5CM would be on the anaemic side not to say outright illegal in some places (due to common 7mm minimum caliber requirements for these species).
So I was mostly comparing the .308 to other common cartridges common in Europe like 300WM, 7x64, 8x57, 30-06 and 270.
The .308 is a top notch round. I can't count how many deer and wild hogs I've dropped to the .308. I love my 30-06, 300 win mag. and my 7mm rem. mag., but my .308 drops game just the same. Definitely one of America's favorite cartridges from target shooting, to military duties, to putting meat in the freezer.
308 is efficient when it comes to recoil, powder, and barrel life.
That is true, William.
I enjoy the .270, everything from axis deer, Whitetail, Mule deer, some use it for Elk (admittedly I'm not that brave), boar, all types of bear in NA and you are hardly ever hunting past 400yds. Axis deer are relatively soft, so anything .30 will demolish it. Never figured out why .270win is so overlooked.
@@Riv_Dyl97 You are forgetting rabbits. Watch the videos on the AHP(Australian hunting podcast) channel to see the results. I never knew that a rabbit's arse could fly 10 metres away from it's head in such a miniscule period of time.
@@mattrickard3716 damn, the racoons I shot only went about 8 meters 🤣
@@mattrickard3716 and don't get me wrong, hitting racoons 100-110yds out is not easy, and I like to think I'm a good shot. But you have so little room for error on elk and even heard stories of moose being downed. I just can't brave myself to do it 😬
I own all 3 riffles
6.5 , 300 , 308
My go to rifle is still my 308 ,
It's never let me down . That old gun has always been ready to take care of business.
Still the only round you can actually find
I love the barrel life for 308. It does everything I need and more.
.308 arguably has the best barrel life out of most rifle calibers, this is huge in the PRA world 6.5 Creed and 7mm-08 are the only two I know of that rival .308’s barrel life
Yup. I was looking at a 300 Win Mag until I realised they have a barrel life of around 1000 to 1500 rounds. Factor in an extra dollar per shot I guess!
Barrel length too
I love my .308 Winchester in my model 70. With the right loads and good bullet placement, there's not too many critters on this planet you cannot take.
308 still reminds me of tons of great memories from 15 years ago getting into Milsurp shooting. The old guys down at the local range were all so awesome to me and my friend and helped us so much getting into them.
In the last 20 some years,I had shot multiple moose and deer in Canada with my Ruger and Tikka in .308 Winchester. Usually, I use Hornady SST 165grain.
Great round and almost always available.
Each are good reasons to like your 308 hunting rifles. If that round helps you with successful hunts and you are happy with it, then that is the best round period. I think Ron was trying to give a few stats that would help them with all the options. I love the 270 and I think I have good reasons to, for me. What I hunt in Texas is different though😀
My favorite forum signature of all time was “30 caliber - turning cover into concealment for over 100 years.” Your chart showed over 7% more energy on target at 300 yards compared to 6.5 Creedmoor. More energy, bigger diameter, heavier bullet works well in an awful lot of practical applications. Longer barrel life isn’t a bad characteristic either.
I honestly think you've just proven my biggest issue with 308. To reword what you said, the 6.5 CM has almost 93% of the energy of the 308 at 300y, with less recoil,
The problem with 308 vs 6.5 CM is that the only real advantage of 308 is energy under 500 yards, but I'd argue if you NEED that extra energy then you WANT 30-06, leaving 308 as the middle child between the more accurate and easier to shoot 6.5 CM/260, and more powerful 30-06.
@@gpearce11 That is true but unless you have no ethics you should not be shooting at any Big Game Animals Past 500 Yards.
@Hfh Yjdkal Are you serious, No one said it can't be done, Just saying it shouldn't be done. And I suppose every Deer you have shot at 600 yards was hit perfectly and dropped in their tracks.
@@H43339 just needs a man’s gun not a baby 308
@@gpearce11 but the 308 costs half as much to shoot and ammo is always available..so tell me again what the benefit the 6.5 has?
I was never a fan of the 308 until I bought one this year. Remington 7400. Did everything I asked it to do. Love it!
Any reliability or accuracy issues with that rifle?
@@malachiwhite356 none at all! I love it!
I was a sniper instructor for 45 yrs. I also competed with the .308 for about 50 yrs. I won more TR F-class matches then I can count. I own both the .308 or the Creedmoor lets see where your Creedmoor is in 50 years. I appreciate what you do here. However, you ever laid in the jungle and hunted men? You ever competed against other .308 shooters?
Take care, flea
Nicely done sir
I too have a past military appreciation for my 308.
The original 6,5 creedmoor is over 100 years old. ;)
@@palpedersen7515 there is no original. The creedmore is its own cartridge so no, it’s not.
@@palpedersen7515 Called what? Don't say 6.5x55.
The cartridge has inspired a few different rounds as well , .243 , .260 , .7 mm-08, .338 , .358 . It works for me , I'm sticking to it !
Thanks for sharing the video.
If I remember correctly, the 308 was introduced with an improved powder. Back in the day, the 308 shot the same ballistics as a 30-06 with the old style powder. Same power, but in a smaller package. That’s one of the traits that made it appealing to the military early on. Of course, a 30-06 with new powders will always outperform the 308.
That is assuming maximum pressure isn't the limiting factor, if pressure is limiting then then either will have the same energy.
Up to 150 yds the ballistics are too similar to decide a difference.
A vast majority of deer in the US are killed at less than half that distance
I've been using Grandpa's old Winchester model 88 in .308 since 1979. It shoots very well and has never let me down. With 180 grain bullets it's devastating. 1 shot killer!! It's my favorite rifle!!!
I have a Model 88 Win. I don't shoot over 200 yds. I love it .
I have taken elk at 350 yards with my Model 88. Something about old rifles is just comforting.
One of the most used hunting rounds in Canada, and we have all the large game! Hasn’t fallen and I love my 308 Winchester! Like any caliber ammunition and rifle quality, it goes from good to great!
Lots of 303 british in canada 🇨🇦 too very similar i hear.
It's just the jack of all trades: moderate recoil, decent accuracy at medium range and plentyful. There are cartriges that are better on paper but sometimes just not enough to take its place. I never hunt any further than 300 meters so it's plenty powerful and easily predictable, it just works and the difference with the 6.5 is still negligeble. I guess it's just a matter of application, but whatever you need, .308 winchester is going to do its best.
I usually do my "hunting" at 1,760 yards or more.....my .177 "pellet rifle's" effect range.
Anything past 3,520 and I have to switch to a drone strike.......
I agree. Best all around cartridge out there.
I love my .308 it's great low recoil plenty powerful and accurate at an ethical distance
The .308 is good as a short to medium range sniper round due to how stable it is when penetrating glass and still finding its mark. Higher velocities tend to not do so well for that application.
Also having your short/mid range sniper able to use the same ammo as your machine gunner means one less type of ammo to supply to the front.... If you only have to drop 7.62/51 and 5.56 it's easier than having 4 or 5 types of ammo
Deflection after hitting a branch or glass window is worse the slower a round is moving. Faster is better for decreasing variance after impact. Weight’s primary advantage is maintaining lethal energy after hard barrier penetration. The slower speed will however cause a greater amount of deflection.
Used and loved the 308 for over 30 yrs on Pennsylvania whitetails and some extremely long shots on woodchucks , jumped on the Creedmore bandwagon for a few years and im back to the 308
Thanks Ron for another great speach!
.308 win is a great cartridge. Of course I have one Tikka m595 .308win. It's the most popular caliber here in Finland. More moose are shot with it than any other caliber. Even though... I call it a mouse rifle. Yes, it is sufficient for moose with correct shot placement, but bigger ones give a bit more space for human error. I mainly use it for target practice and bird hunts.
Basically, if you would own only one rifle, .308 win would be it. Period. Reasons are said by Ron on the video.
you shoot birds with .308???? Do they explode???
@@urwholefamilydied imagine pigeon hunting with a .308... you would know if you hit. it would just be fine red must with grey and white feathers everywhere lol.
I will hold on to my 308 they been good to me. Awesome versatile Caliber.
Definitely. Notice that in this video I never told anyone to get rid of his or her 308 Win. I might sometimes suggest folks add to the collection, but never subtract.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors I appreciate you listing the pros and cons of the 308 but I think it's the round in the middle of the pack so many rounds will do better than it but some arnt as good as it, funny how the 308 cult freaks out over any little bit of criticism towards it. I wish people would thank modern cartridges for helping the 308 rather than them complaining there average cartridges just isn't the best anymore but I dont think was the best ever. But thank you for just trying to shed so light on this cartridge. Hope you have a good day.
Factory ammunition available in stock
9mm 556 223 45 6.5 380 300blk and many others you can contact us at
Website Ammotoretail.com
Great summary of the .308 Winchester! I like this Cartridge for target shooting and hunting. Low recoil an high efficiency. Here in Germany perfect for the distances we shoot.
When I was stationed in Germany I got to qualify on the German Military Rifle. I don’t remember it’s name… mid 1990s era. It was a .308 aka 7.62 NATO. I hit 10/10 after a 3 shot grouping to zero. Nice rifle.
@@koreykilburn5303 G3 most likely
The .308 shines around here.
Randy Newberg shoots the 308 almost exclusively and has brought down TONS of elk at all distances.
I know a guy who grew up by Jackson Hole WY. Started hunting elk at age 14 and now he's late 60s. He's used the .308 Win with 150gr to get an elk every season. I've used 30-06 and it didn't drop big thick bodied mulies any faster or deader than .308. Yeh, the .308 Win is my go-to big game.
Certainly beats a .243 Win for grizzly (true story) which some geezer in AK claimed. I don't even like 243 for deer, bad experiences.
@@LuvBorderCollies no he pretty much has gone to the 7mm08 ..same cartridge just brought down to 7 mm it's a great caliber as well it's what I've gone to , but still a fan of 308 too
Factory ammunition available in stock
9mm 556 223 45 6.5 380 300blk and many others you can contact us at
Website Ammotoretail.com
Yes,you have reason Randy shoot only with a 308.Yes a TONS of elk.
I use my Browning .308 most of the time because most of the time i'm hunting whitetail deer at 300 or less yards per shot. Most shots under 100 yards. When I do hunt bigger game and or longer range shots I have my Browning 300 Win Mag.
The first video that has made me doubt how genuine this guy is. 308 is a phenomenal all around hunting rifle that hasn't "fallen" anywhere.
Size isn't everything Ron. My girlfriend said so.
😁👍
women often mean the opposite ;-)
That's why she has a lover ! .
Yeah i know, she says that to everybody.... (JK)
@@geraldswain3259 😂
Kind of reminds me of talking about Tom Brady, isnt the fastest, strongest, or even has the best arm but look what he has accomplished!! Go 308!!
The .308 never cheated or had an organization make sure of its sucess 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😍😍
308 is & always has been my favorite round.
As a European hunter the .308 Winchester will take down every game coming my way.
It is a versatile, every available, great performing, high own accuracy caliber.
My go-to-caliber by far.
I always enjoyed beating the 6.5 guys with my outdated .308 at the F-class matches.
Oh man that must burn like salt in a wound 🤣🤣🤣
6.5 and 6mm dominate f class. But to each is there own. But 308 used to be the eveybody cartridge. Now people are finding different calibers. Not that 308 aint great. But its far from the only option.
You're only beating bad shooters, what are the people using who are beating you?
They must be terrible at shooting lol
.408 Cheytac has entered.
I’ve never had a deer duck my 308. It’s fast enough for Pennsylvania foothills.
I love those PA foothills.
Works great out on the wide open prairies!!
I've seen about fifty deer drop in front of my old 88 Winchester, some at stupid long ranges and I've NEVER lost a deer or spent half a day looking for one. My dad shot a Marlin 336 30-30 his whole life and we spent a LOT of time looking for his deer that fell to good solid hits and ran a quarter of a mile. Had nothing to do with shot placement and everything to do with effectiveness and lack of shock. Many of his torn up much worse than mine, but just refused to die on the spot. I had a friend fill three deer tags at once with his AR 10 at a little over four hundred yards a few years ago, two big does and a yearling. Both does went about fifty yards and the yearling fell where it stood. Not quite ready to trade my .308 off yet for one of the new Wondereens.
@@ditchdigger93 It would be wonderful if the 88 made a comeback a long with the Savage 99 in .308 or even .358 Win. The magazines allows the spire tips which is great. I love the .35 calibers, having shot a .35 Rem in Marlin 336 for years. Deer are DRT. To each their own. I don't criticize others for their favorite rifles or rounds and I wish the 6.5 Creedmore Crowd would extend the same courtesy to us old fashioned deplorables.
@@Mark-uq9km I hate to date myself but the Modell 88 I bought now is now a collectors item. It still works as good as the day I brought it home. I've was given a bunch of .358 Win. brass and bullets one time and I've yet to find anyone who owns one or even another .35 cal rifle that they could use the bullets in. The Model 88 was advertised as a Lever actuated bolt action rifle as it uses a turn bolt design and it is stronger than Hulk Hogan. It is a fine old rifle.
The .308 has been and will always be the best all around cartridge in the country. It ain't going no where.
The .308 is one of the most consistent rounds out there. I've been using it for years in a model 70 and a Tikka. Put down many a hog with it and I also have 30-30, 30.06, and 300 Win Mag. I started out hunting with a 7mm Mag, switched to that .308 bullet and never looked back. I'm a believer.
7mm 08
@@gradyhernandez4699 That's a good round, too.
I have model 70 in .308 and .300 win mag. Very specific purpose for each one. Just awesome rifles.
You got it right in your summary and that is the .308 Winchester is a great all around, do all cartridge with an excellent barrel life. For printing paper, hunting and even personal defense set ups it is a must have. This doesn't mean that every man doesn't also need a 30-06, 270, and 300 Win Mag too because we do, and this is just the nature of this hobby and tool kit. But for practical purposes the .308 Winchester just is not lacking. I don't consider 1000 meter shots to be practical practical, but rather a special category and thus the NEED for a 300 Win Mag in my tool box. I know the limits of the .308, but for all intents and general purposes I just love this cartridge.
I HAD 3 calibers, 30-06, 6.5 Grendel, but kept the .308. Great all around cartridge. From coyotes to elk, it’s my go to cartridge.
Question: why did you keep the .308 and not the .30-06? Not a criticism but simply a query as to why you preferred one over the other. I have shot both for years and find the older .30-06 cartridge more versatile as well as better performing at ranges in excess of 500 yards. And that’s for both target shooting and hunting mid- and large game animals.
Good video. One thing I didnt hear mentioned was the barrel length that a .308 can accommodate. Alot of the 6.5’s etc will need a longer barrel, .308 can run a 16” barrel and still be great.
Literally have competitive shooters and others shooting out 1k meters plus with a 16” 6.5….
If you are using a 16” barrel on a .308 would not that be great in close mountain shots at deer or bear? Just asking .
@@genelyda1102 Oh yeah, unless when hunting you plan on having every shot well past 500-750yds and pushing to 1000yds a semi auto 16in AR308 is king. Put a can on the end to help your ears and recoil and it’s a dream at shorter ranges. I got a multi cam cerakoted M5E1 16in .308 model from Aero Precision’s June build set and it’s an absolutely great gun for shooting out to 500yds. I keep a canted red dot on it for close ranges and then a 5-25x on top so I can push the .308 to it’s limits. I got a hydraulic buffer weight and that combined with an adjustable gas block and the suppressor it becomes a real soft shooter that can definitely get the job done. Probably my favorite hunting rifle, although once BCA drops their Magnum AR lineup this fall I’ll be getting a .300win mag model for when I plan on taking shots across long open fields and for when I go out west. For where I live in Florida the .308 can easily get the job done well over 90% of the time, if you live out west its a better choice than a 5.56 and then I’d consider a Magnum .30 like the .300Win Mag even more so. But yeah up close the .308 16in AR is definitely a hunter’s best friend in close up bear territory. I’d rather use my .308 on a bear close range than my 10mm, and no matter the laws keep a 20 or 25rnd mag loaded up ready to go just in case you have to mag dump a charging bear, idgaf what magazine restrictions are in place for hunting, keep just one on you instead of a 5 or 10 round mag that you’re usually made to use for semi auto rifles hunting, it’s a state by state rule though of course.
If my memory serves me correctly, when the first 308 Winchester's were on the market. They were much closer to the 30-06 because of the powders that were being used in factory loads. And I believe that's what gave it the initial edge over the 30-06 and the rest is history.
That was my reading. The 308 is shorter, but it has less body taper and a shorter neck, so it doesn't lose as much powder volume as one might think. Plus, powders had improved in the roughly 50 year time frame. So, military loads of the 30-06 and the 7.62x51 were nearly identical. Modern powders and higher pressures give the 30-06 back its advantage, especially with heavier bullets, but if you want to shoot your Garand, you should be using military pressure/velocity loads.
Exactly. He completely missed the point with his .308/30-06 comparison. You have to compare original .308 loadings to the standard 30-06 of the time. Very comparable ballistics with noticeably less recoil and a shorter action.
This, .308 was basically designed to be .30-06 but taking advantage of newer powder tech that .30-06 at the time did not, same/similar ballistics in a smaller package.
That advantage disappears when you start loading .30-06 hotter with the same better powder.
The M2 ball from WWII came out the muzzle around 2700fps. That’s right around where the 308 is. So you are correct
@@Idontevenwanachannel .308 ballistics are inferior to 30-06 across the board
Drinking some coffee and enjoying this talk. Thanks for these videos Ron
Very welcome.
Love my 308's I think for a lot of the same reasons I love my 45 acp's and 12 ga pumps. Reliable, predictable, and effective. I know there's faster and sexier rounds out there but what good is a Corvette when you need a pickup?
Exactly I think you will see things come full circle, I still use my 870 and my Glock .40, people tell me I’m outdated and need to upgrade to the new whiz bang thing but both just like the 45acp have killed a lot more people over the last century than this new stuff.
Nah, I'm good with my .308 rifles. I own two, there might be a third in the mix. No, I don't care for the "Gucci" ammo types.
The .308 is proven, and there is enough familiarity that people still shoot it today. Oh sure, you may own a few few 6.5 creedmore rifles, but you also have .308 rifles as well right next to them, and you ain't getting rid of them any time soon.
Just remember, the .308 was NEVER special, but it did all that you needed it to do. You never praised it for being great, you never cursed it for not being enough. It may not shoot well past 1,200yds, but you respect what it does in within that range.
That's why .308 is still King, even with all the Gucci ammo being made these days.
I have a Savage model 10 .308 Win that I have been shooting for over 20 years now and it still shoots sub MOA out past a thousand yards. I totally agree with you.
The problem with Gucci ammo is its not everywhere and immediately available. That's the whole point behind 308.
No 308 doesn't do well within it's intended range. Used to be that 308 had more energy than 6.5cm for the 1st few hundred yards but they improve on 6.5cm loadings all the time and that situation has changed and that's not a valid argument anymore. So yes let's look at ballistics charts.
6.5 Creed 156gr Berger Hunting VLD Factory loaded ammo BC 0.637
Muzzle 2680fps 2488 ft/lbs
100 2549fps 2251 ft/lbs
200 2422fps 2032 ft/lbs
300 2299fps 1831 ft/lbs
400 2179fps 1645 ft/lbs
500 2063fps 1474 ft/lbs
600 1950fps 1318 ft/lbs
bergerbullets.com/product/6-5-mm-creedmoor-156-grain-extreme-outer-limits-eol-elite-hunter/
308 185gr Berger Hunting VLD Factory loaded ammo BC 0.533
Muzzle 2532fps 2634 ft/lbs
100 2372fps 2311 ft/lbs
200 2217fps 2019 ft/lbs
300 2068fps 1758 ft/lbs
400 1925fps 1523 ft/lbs
500 1787fps 1313 ft/lbs
600 1654fps 1124 ft/lbs
bergerbullets.com/product/308-winchester-185gr-classic-hunter/
Notice how;
-the 308 goes below 1800fps minimum expansion velocity at 500 yards and the 6.5cm has several hundred to go and that's with this data that's based on 26" barrels if you dropped to a 20" then 308 is going to lose another 150 yards here.
-that the 308 only has 5% muzzle energy advantage on 6.5cm which is only 3% by 100 yards and 0% at 200 yards.
-Also wind drift data is not posted but we know how that's going to go
@@gsxr1189 Although I appreciate the fascination with long range shooting, as a hunter, if I cannot stalk to within 150 yards of a quarry, I'm not much of a hunter. The great Simo Hayha, who had more than 500 sniper kills in WWII, said he was able to do it because he "got close enough."
As for power, a .308 Win round of 168gr Barnes TTSX BC 0.470 at 2700fps has 2352ft/lbs at 100 yards, 2025 ft/lbs at 200 yards, 1734 ft/lbs at 300 yards. More than enough for anything smaller than moose or grizzly bear. So, congratulations on your 6.5 Creedmoor, I see no reason to replace my .308 Win.
Strangely, the U.S. military STILL considers the 7.62x51 an anti-personnel round out to 800 yards, where it hits as hard as a .44 Magnum at the muzzle.
@@EternalRecursion Out West sometimes we have to shoot out to 500-600 yards we always try to get closer but it's not always possible. *I do not shoot game further 600 yards* than that but some people do.
Also not all of the US military is still a believer in 308. US SOCOM has dumped 308 for 6.5CM because according to them it;
-cuts wind drift by 40% at ALL ranges
-decreases drop by a 1/3 at ALL ranges
-increases max range by 1/3rd
-by 1000 yards it doubles hit probability
*-increases energy on target by 30% @ 1000 yards*
soldiersystems.net/2018/03/23/ussocom-adopts-6-5-cm/
I was introduced to 308 by my grandpa, as a boy of 12 in the early 70's. It was excellent then, I'm sure it is still not bottom of the barrel.
The 308 win and 30-06 have never been my favorite. But these are the two I reccomend to anyone, really good hunting cartridges, and one can get them next to anywhere. Nowadays with 1 in 10 twist in a 308, 180gr bullets stabilize well. The lower velocities don't bother me, less meat damaged at bushveld hunting ranges.
What lower velocities? Just shop around and do your research.
@@joeshleb743 compare apples with apples. The 30-06 will push any bullet faster than a 308 win can. What I am saying is that I don't mind 2650 fps with a 180grain bullet, versus 2800 fps my father can get using that same 180 grain bullet out of his 30-06. I know 2800 fps out of a 308 is possible with lighter bullets, and those the 30-06 will push to over 3000fps.
Comparing today's Creedmoor to decades old 308 is like comparing a 57 Chevy to a new Toyota n asking who gets better gas mileage. I own both 308 and 30 06 and use them both on black bear and whitetail here in PA. Love them both under 400 yards.
Yes to a 57 chevy or 56 lets go 308/57 chevy
Brother you said it.
No school like old school 👍
@@eddygammill Is that why 30-30 is still America's most popular rifle cartridge? Everything gets replaced by modern technology at some point and for 308 I'm afraid that point has come.
Lol, The 7.62x51mm (.308 Win) will be around "Forever" !!!
My favorite cartridge, you can load so many ways ! Love it : )
Classic
AKA 7.62 NATO as well
@@sealsrx7252 Lol, you know that's the same !! : )
Thanks!
Bought a new rifle last and I bought a .308 Win. I have had outstanding results . Multiple kills and the deer drop right where shot. I shoot the 150 grain round. The .308 Win. is powerful enough for 200 yard shots and that works for me.
The .308 us capable beyond 200 yards. But hats off to you if you limit your shots on game to 200 or less. That's why its called hunting...not long range target shooting.
I'm glad you mentioned barrel life. That was the deciding factor when I was choosing between the creedmoor and the 308. I'm now very pleased with my decision since I like to load subsonic 308 to use with a suppressor. Which wouldn't have been an option if I had made a different choice.
Not only that, but the 308 looks a lot better. It's sexier.
All the positive reasons are why I use the 223/5.56 and the 762/308. Retired Army, and the fact that I could pick them up from any Wal*Mart. Both the 223 and 308 are Goldielocks for me. Thank you for a very good video.
Walmart stopped carrying 223/5.56 because it's relationship with the missed labeled scary black assault rifle
@@whysoserious7014 When did they stop? I just picked up a few boxes?
@InjunJoe I have no choice but agree with you.
@InjunJoe You're welcome
I just bought a new rifle and it’s a 308. I could’ve bought any rifle I wanted and I chose that caliber. I do have a 65 Creedmoor a 270 and a 30 Ott six. I had to have it. I Hunt I don’t do too much range type shooting or even care if it’s within 300 yards I won’t hesitate.
Hey Ron, the Imperial Japanese Army went from a 6.5 to a 7.7 cartridge mid war for a reason.
I think it's more to do with the machine guns which are typically used at greater ranges than the infantry rifles are and the 6.5 just fell short. Keep in mind the 6.5 Japanese wasn't 6.5 Creedmore.
Actually the Japanese introduced the 7.7 rifle round in 1939, they just never fully switched over before the end of the war.
I question the title of the video. The .308 Win., the 30-06, the .270 Win., the .243 Win. are all still doing quite well.
Click bait and it hooked alot of us lol
Iv'e had alot of guns over my 73 years. My fav was a Remington 600 Mohawk in 308 Win. Got my best mule deer with it. A 5x6 which weighed out at 235lbs skined and guted at the butcher shop. Hand loads with 150 grain Hornady spire points. Sweet!
You have one sweet rifle. My neighbor had two of them had a range in his back yard did allot of shooting there with him shot one hole 10 shot groups all-day at 100 yds. All I got were cloverleafs with my sporterized 1908 czheck mauser. Won't take anything for my 308 mauser, But that 600 mohawk shot sweet all with built up handloads of course.
Those mohawk s are good shooters.
178-180 grain bullets are very accurate out of my .308 Winchester Savage model 11,consistently 1 MOA or less from a bench. I don’t need to shoot past 300 yards where I hunt and the accuracy of my .308 easily makes that possible if I do my part. I have never seen the need to go to a different cartridge for my needs.
The 7.62 Ball round came loaded with a 147 grain FMJ. The idea was to make a less costly military round that could be used in every military platform weapon that was effective on enemy troops. It uses fewer materials to construct and was easier to produce because it was similar to the 30 caliber ball round it replaced. It increased magazine capacity and reduced weight. It still lingers around because the 5.56 ball round lacks the power and longer effective range it provides. You can measure popularity by ammo sales; but that has nothing to do with a cartridge’s effective use. If people are buying AR platform rifles like new underwear; that shoot ammo like a leaking water pipe. Certainly you are going to sell lots of that cartridge size ammo. The only thing that is for sure is; ammo manufacturers make more money if people use rifles that shoot lots of ammo real fast. And the rifle doing the shooting ejects the spent and dented brass into places unknown making it difficult to find and reload. New cartridges come and go; and so far the 30-06 and .308 Winchester are still standing when the smoke clears. Every 6.5 whatever you call them is no better than what was used in the past. Because it is the one pulling the trigger that matters. If it costs $5 dollars every time you pull the trigger that makes some seriously costly shooting practice. That’s what I think.
Concur 100%. I’m a big fan of the .30-06 because it’s a proven killer and versatile as they come. Yeah, the recoil is at the top level of tolerance for many but if you practice with it enough you lose that tendency to flinch. It’s also cheaper and that means you’re more likely to shoot it regularly.
Great Video on the 308, What i find great about the 308 is its just has enough recoil to be confortable to shoot. You dont get bored of it like a lot of smaller rifle calibers. The recoil is enough to let you no you are still firing a high powered rifle, and it puts a big old smile on your face. And it gives a shooter less flinches and confidence to shoot more accurate. And its plenty accurate. Take Care!
Couldn't say it better sir! I think the days of the "rumors" of the . 308 being a 1000yd or 1200yd rifle are gone. Once the hype is gone, the sweet reality remains...... out to 800 yards the . 308 is just so prime to shoot!! Just an accurate and plenty powerful rifle round that can be shot with military FMJ for so much gun. Great round 😄👍
Current Ammobuy retailer aggregate prices:
.308: $0.92 - $1.70 per round
6.5 Creed: $4.00 - $4.60 per round
You're flat out wrong.
I was at PSA an hour ago and they had 500 rounds of 308 for $599 and a box of 20 6.5 creed was $50
He's not wrong, that is just the basic law of supply and demand from a capitalistic economy. If demand for 6.5 Creed is higher than that of .308, companies can and will charge more for it.......
Nosler .308 in south MS is $2.25 per round now
@@rogerknight2267 By today's standards and the current ammo price gouging, $2.25 for a premium ammo like Nosler sounds like a deal.
But still entirely too much for one pull of the trigger...........
Before the pandemic match grade 6.5 was about 80-90 cpr, amd you could find lesser quality such as S&B for even cheaper. By using that logic I could also say 357 sig is a better round than 9 mm because one place sells sig for 80 cpr and 9mm for $2 per round.
Great overview of the versatile 308. The best advice I was given for reloading the 308 is: "Don't try to make a magnum out of it."
All the reasons you mentioned above with the addition of the fact that its almost perfect for whitetail deer hunting.
No fall yet . It is still one of the best .
The 300 Savage needed a longer neck to hold the bullet in the case better to become the .308.
barrel life, barrel life, barrel life...is my bet
Yeah. 8-12K rounds easily. Also easier maintenance of the barrel vs some of the smaller high speed calibers.
oh, yes. they always forget that the fancier the cartridge the more expensive the rifle.
@@giacomolontra3707 and the ammo. I had a 300 wsm and before the shortage the box of 20 was 70 bucks. That's when 308 was 20 bucks a box too.
@@joeymeyer8261 yup i run 300win mag myself for hunting up northern Alberta before the shortage ammo was 70 a box for either the Barnes or 60 for the Hornady. now we're well into $90+ where my wife's .308 is only like 40-50 bucks to feed.
Especially for a short action cartridge.
.308 is a great ambassador into the shooting community for beginners. Amazing to reload with the amount of pills and data out there. Amazing to learn to manage recoil and adjusting elevation/reading wind. Every rifle manufacturer chambers a firearm for it, and every ammo manufacturer makes it. It's suitable for any game in North America. What's not to love?
I love my CTR Tikka 308. Fitted over a KRG bravo, glass a tract toric 20x50. Shoots best At least on mine anyways. 155 Gr match. Thing makes me look like a well seasoned shooter.
I'm all about the 308! I like that I can buy surplus ammo. And it does what I need. Sure there are better "designer" rounds, but you pay for them.
I think the 22-250 Rem was the best sniper round ever used by the LAPD. A big thing is you can always get bigger or faster but efficiency is about doing what you need to with the minimum amount needed. People will put rounds down because something is better but ultimately, especially with the military, things can be good enough.
.308 will always be my favorite hunting round. The best sniper I've ever known, has kills on 2 continents, won't use anything else either.
Because it simply works
You have reason,Thank,s.
I got a sub $1200 complete setup in 308. Anyone who says 308 can't be a long range cartridge is crazy. Sure maybe past 1000 yards it's not as good as some of the newer calibers but to a 1000 yards it's fine, and I don't even know any ranges near me that have over a thousand yards. If you got a good calculator and all the correct information on ammo speed, windage, ect you can take surplus ammo out to 1000 without much trouble.
True, Brett, you can take it to 1000 yards, but it's more challenging than many others like the Creedmoor due to the slower MV resulting from pushing heavy bullets to match the 6.5's high B.C.s. Always a trade off there.
When I was looking to buy my first weapons, my philosophy was to find a round I felt would do the best all around job. I looked at who was using what and how could I get rounds if I needed them? I purchased .223, .308 rifles and 9mm, .40S&W handguns. My thought was, if the SHIF, what are the most abundant rounds that would be available? I have since been able to afford more weapons to tailor my shooting, but just starting out (new buyers) and for longevity (availability and customization of rounds) it is tough to beat the .308. Good vid. Thanks, Ron.
Great advice to anyone minimizing calibers or not in a position to crazy stock a safe. I 100% agree - 9mm, .223, .308 I would also say 12g and .357Mag are handy "common" calibers. I'm a 10mm fan BUT..... that is because I already HAVE a 9mm AND I can load my own 10mm. I would never recommend it as an ONLY pistol.
As someone who doesn't feel the need to have an armory, this is my reason right here. My first purchases were a 556 AR, 9mm pistol, 12ga shotgun and a .308 AR to round it out. I can do just about anything I could need to with firearms adequately, if not ideally with these. Anything more is specific-purpose driven.
My fave 308 that i have some experience with is ofcourse the M60.
Love carrying the "Pig"
Loved the M60, with quick-change barrel a great weapon
@@scottcripe5009 noooooo way anyway anybody loves carrying that pig in the bush. When I signed up as an 11B with the local ARNG unit in 1985 all the good positions were held by the old farts. Top tried to snooker me into that pig . I laughed and said I’d been an Army MP and knew Alllll about the pig as it was one of our 😾primary field weapons in Germany. Of course we had them on pintle mounts on Jeep’s but I’d lunged a couple around enough to avoid the thing. He offered me the Grenadier / Squad Auto spot which I could deal with. The (Slut) M203 was ungainly but nowhere near the hassle of lugging that heavy as machine gun in the bush.
M240B ❤❤
I'm watching this as I am loading my Berger 200 20x bullets for 1000 yard FTR competition. Love my .308' s
Ron I am a member of a thousand yard benchrest club and the most popular round is the 284 winchester which does fit in a short action. It is better in nearly way than a .308. as it holds more powder it has a higher velocity, with a much higher BC. It handles a 180 grain projectile and even up to 195 grains, giving it a huge advantage with its BC. So with a higher velosity and a higher BC it has better wind control and less drop and will beat a .308 any day. It is a very handy load for 1200 yards. the only one advantage the .308 has is a longer barrel life.In my opinion there are many cartridges better than the .308. I have won more competetions with the 300 Weatherby than any other rifle using berger 215 grain projectiles with a BC of .696 which really gets through the wind.
The old 284 Win. has been one of my favs. since the late 1980s. So cool to see it flourishing as a long range target round. I use it in an Ultra LIght M20 for mountain hunting.
Actually Ron, some cartridges do contain what we refer to as "Inherent accuracy" while others do not, and the .308 Winchester cartridge most certainly is one such cartridge! This cartridge has set records in 1,000 yard competitions and everything in between! Then, we go out into the hunting fields for big game, where the .308 Winchester has been making a very respectable name for itself for many years, taking deer, bear, elk and moose to name a few!
I've been hand loading for this cartridge for 50 years and have found it to be very accurate and very effective for any purpose that I put it to. I have been a certified LE Sniper and I have used it for that work to, but I have used it mostly for the hunting of big game and out to 300 to 350 yards, it puts meat on the table, PERIOD! If I'm after bigger and farther out tougher animals, I have a .300 Winchester magnum that I also hand load for that no puny little 6.5 creedmoor can ever hope to keep up with.
The .308 hasn't fell, isn't falling and is sitting very comfortably on its seat near the TOP of hunting cartridges right here in America and always will be! We'll see where the 6.5 creedmoor is in 70 years or so... ;)
What exactly makes the 308 Win a more accurate cartridge in it's design?
30 cal's done everything I need it to. Nothing's changed my mind so far.
!
@@bairdmilam6352 a cartridge can be more accurate than another because it’s shape and how it sits in the chamber of a rifle in terms of consistent headspace and such. Also if the shape of the cartridge allows for complete and consistent powder burning. A wider shorter case is better than a narrow long case with regard to powder burning.
@@kenstirling5348 Okay, so consistent headspace requires consistency on the part of firearm and ammunition manufacturers. Which is truer of 7.62x51 than 308 win. Yes, short and wide cases burn powder more consistently. But I don't think anyone is calling the 308 win a short and wide cartridge.
So I'm left wondering why Titus thinks the 308 is an inherently more accurate cartridge.
Where I grew up, in the 70s, there were actual SPORTSMAN shows on tv, like this one. Excellent.
Do you remember the drama filled, Mutual of Omaha Wild Kingdom?
I remember a mountain lion hunt that had tons of manufactured drama, lol!
@@rgalletta58 you bet I do. Marlin Perkins was cool in a grandfatherly way
@@rgalletta58, Thanks for a great "way back when" recollection I just had. It was one of the "not miss" programs when I stayed over with my grandparents. I am 51, but as soon as I saw the reference to MofO WK I relived a great period of my childhood 45 years ago. They also watched The Lawrence Welk Show which brings back memories of painful viewing, lol.
@@garystover5387 I have many great memories as well. Be well, Sir.
Ok boomer
I don't use .308 but I do use 8mm Mauser and I have to agree with your assessment of the .308 round being fairly balanced. Another thing that it has going for it is that it was readily available prior to the pandemic run on ammo.
I was just in West Virginia where they still have ammo, but they don't have any .308 because that's what so many bought thinking it would always be available!
@@papatorr3669 that's tough. But down here in Texas we've got some .308 and 7.62x39. Everybody's using 5.56/.223 guns so us people using SKS carbines and AKs or .308 rifles can still shoot. O_o
I love it when they say "let's take a look at _blank_", then show you two different things at the same time without telling you what's what and I'm supposed to know??
Like when u showed the two bullets @3:12.
Great, thanks for the bullet picture, awesome, now I know exactly.