I've been taking photos casually for about 20 years now. Got 13pro last month, first time iPhone user. I was impressed and slightly annoyed at the same time by the ProRAW processing. It certainly takes some time to be convinced for someone coming from Manual RAW shooting experience. At the end of the day, for me, it's really handy to take it out of my pocket and capture the moment without thinking about it too much, and spending slightly less time with editing. It's great that some of the processing meta data is saved in the DNG file. Great content David! Keep it coming!
Yeah it's not easy to embrace a new format, especially one that is seemingly at odds with what you've been shooting for 2 decades. I'm glad I can help a first time iPhone user get the most from the cameras!
There is a reason why many event photographers shoot RAW in Aperture priority mode… speed is the king and you can correct the exposure settings in post .
I’ve been experimenting a bit and have found that, for me, going into the details panel and eliminating the sharpness and noise reduction is better than using a different preset. With no sharpness and noise reduction, the pro raw files are really good to work with. Thanks , David, for coming up with the solution!
My initial impression was that Proraw appeared very clinical. Then I took images into desktop lightroom classic and noticed a slider for the adobe profile. Pulling this to the left gets rid of the hdr like effect and the outdoor images are beautiful. That slider also seems to remove the mushiness and results are clearly sharper than the third party raw output. The benefit is similar to the benefit with sensor shift in mirrorless cameras, except with mirrorless, the process is too slow to be useful. The reduction in shadow noise is amazing. Files are definitely worthy of further work in camera raw / photoshop.
Well done, David. Learning from experience is the sign of mature thought and I appreciate your willingness to learn. For me, the easiest, shortest way to the same result would be my choice.
This comment means you watched until the end so thank you Stuart, I genuinely appreciate that a lot! 'Easiest and shortest way to the same result': love that!
ProRAW has one substantial disadvantage - the noise reduction applied to it is permanent and cannot be "dialled down" like sharpness settings. And in some cases it is quite excessive - on my Iphone 13 Pro Max telephoto camera the noise reduction applied to ProRAW is 0.95 (1 is max). This makes all details disappear and looks like waterpainting. It can be easily replicated when shooting with telephoto lens on iPhone 13 Pro for example in both ProRAW and normal raw mode in Halide II - focus on infinity or some distant subject and the difference is night and day. So I still use Halide II with normal raw not ProRAW.
I have my iPhone set to RAW permanently. If I want to edit a photo I have tons of leeway, but when I just want to take and text a quick snap it’s fast and sends as jpeg. It’s pretty much perfect.
I like the approach. I just got 13 pro max yesterday and I am a photographer also feeling the same way you do about many things. It’s a great feature and I love it.
Thanks for the insight. I kept wondering whether Lightroom was pre-editing my proraw photos, but it looks like that was Apple…learning how to adjust the profile was great
You're right, Lightroom edits them more than Apple due to how it interprets the data. If you compare Lightroom and your Photos app side by side, you'll notice how much more sharpening Lightroom applies by default for example.
I respect that you are able to admit that it is alright to change your mind about this. I do think that we gain more knowledge learning how to edit our own RAW images, but we also need to realize that progress can be made with new inventions and knowledge. It’s important that we can change over time. and
I was able to see how to change to PRORAW in Settings/Camera, but did not see the ability to use merely RAW. It is a bit confusing and would love it if anyone can clarify this.
Great insight on Proraw! I’ve played a little more with it and indeed you can reduce some of the preset sharpness values and it does produce a more natural image. While I’m not amazed by the sometimes mushy details, in some situations like handheld lowlight Proraw really is useful. Great content keep it up! 👍
Yeah, sometimes the semantic segmentation decides to soften details it deems 'unimportant'. This happened to me once while shooting for this video but I often won't mention something if it happens only once. This is a reason I need to keep exploring the format though.
The moment the image is taken is more important than the number of specs a camera has. Also I've learned something new. I did not know you could lower the sharpness of a proraw image. Great video.
You just earned another sub, recently stepped into the iPhone world with a 14pro and your Halide video is pure gold, as well as this one. Tons of info I never even knew such as how proraw images are different in other apps compared to the native one. Keep up the fantastic work I'll be sure to binge your other content.
I havent found a RAW shooting app ever that lets us shoot more than 1 second. They may have changed with iOS15.1. So for what I do, its always going to be ProRAW. Im glad you pointed out that you can adjust things to your liking in the edit, we are not stuck with what Apple thinks we should have. Good video mate. Where did you film this? Why is there a tank there? Looks Soviet. Pretty sure is a T55. Thats a part of my brain I havent used in a while!
Thanks Shayne, yeah it's a T55 outside the Imperial War Museum near me. Yeah, it's still 1 second, probably for thermal/battery reasons but an increase is way long overdue now!
I'm so underwhelmed with proraw. I've been shooting Raw on iPhones for years starting with the iphone 6s, 6s plus, 8 plus, SE 2020, and now the 12 pro. I started with using Musecam to capture the Raw photos but moved on to Lightroom. With proraw, no matter what you do, which profile you use, which sliders you manipulate, it always looks like a muddy, dirty, compressed JPG, especially when you zoom into 100% and look at fine details. Compared to Raw which has the nice fine lines and detail we all love, albeit with lots of noise when not in perfect lighting conditions. I shoot predominantly street so I love being able to leave my cameras at home and just take my phone. Also, I crop a lot so I was so excited to get this magical new raw format with way less grain etc, so I can crop in and recover greatly underexposed images that I sometimes catch in the heat of the moment. But wow has proraw let me down. I was hoping proraw from a 3rd party app might save the day as I've been using apple's native camera app, so I still have to test something like Moment or Halide and hope they can do some magic. At least with street the moment is what matters and the technical stuff isn't as important
Great video! I have been hearing about Apples photos being over processed but I didn’t know you can undo some of that this easily in lightroom. I was thinking of using a third party camera app but I think i will just stick with the default app
I stumbled upon this accidentally searching for some specs, but I must appreciate the obsession over 100% view pixel-peeping yet shooting with an iphone or the arguments for being in control and part of the creative process mixed with the arguments of not really wanting to be that much a part of the process. It's a mobile phone lol.
Thank you for this video. But I am confused how to use the native camera app to shoot normal RAW. I have the iPhone 12 Pro, but the only option I have is to switch ProRaw on or off in the settings. I do not see a switch for RAW only. Is this an option exclusive to the iPhone 13 Pro?
Good video. I’ve been shooting ProRAW + HEIC with Halide for a year now. I like having both files on hand so I don’t need to do an export just to get a compressed file that I can share.
I knew you could do it. As you said, even if you want to make the ProRAW files look "exactly" like the RAW files, at least your initial shots are quicker and easier. Only issue is that they are way larger, but that is not usually a problem.
For me it is consistency. I use Halide on my 13PM for RAW as I can get a consistent shot - I know what to expect and what I am getting. With the Camera app, even in ProRaw, there is a lack of consistency in the photos taken. hardware is top rate. The software on the other hand…
Okay, simple question. iPhone Pro and Pro Max models are expensive. iPhone 15 has come out, but only pro models have the ProRaw function, plus the default camera app is limited. Will it be better to save a lot of money by buying a regular model like the iPhone 15 Plus, which this year upgraded to a 48-megapixel sensor, and also buy one of the apps for photography that you suggest Halide mark 2 and shoot raw and edit them as we like? Why pay that much for the pro model to have the ProRaw function? Your opinion, what will you suggest?
Seeing as the proraw have the same noise reduction as the JPEG out of the camera just use the Lightroom app and shoot raw. I have a iPhone 13 pro and can shoot raw with all three cameras with Lightroom and the result when applying your own noise reduction instead of the camera is much better. More detail can be brought back, the grass no longer looks like mush.
Hi there, quick question: how do you shoot raw instead of proraw on the 13 pro? I have the phone but seem to be only able to switch between proraw or nothing
@@lucioledizerot196 you can use a third party app like lightroom to shoot in raw. I don't think there's a setting in the camera app to shoot in raw just pro raw. Your best bet is to use a third party app. Lightroom is the best as it lets you shoot raw with all three cameras and allows you to edit them. It's free but if you want to use the clone stamp tool and geometry corrects you have to pay 7.99 per month. I can still use most of the raw edits in the free version though.
Hi, David -- It sounds like you do your LR processing exclusively on your phone. For those of us who prefer using our desktops, are the same processing procedures you mention for ProRAW available to us? If so, are they implemented in the same way? Thank you.
Great video! I myself am a proponent of normal RAW files (I prefer the noise over the blurriness) ever since getting a 12 PM last year, but I feel like I will have to use ProRaw more this year, as this year's tele lens (my favorite) simply cannot handle anything shot after like 6 PM.
Lately from all the apps I use for both videography and photography I seem to be defaulting back to the stock IOS app as well. For me It needs the least amount of pre-shooting setup and post-shooting color correction. Stock Dolby HDR and ProRaw seems to be on another level, sadly no shutter speed is limiting them both.
Well, David, how timely could this be? I've been shooting ProRaw all along with the 13 Pro Max and I'm not entirely bucked by the results of shooting stills during a very professional school play - I don't like the look of the faces straight out of the camera, and your first example of fixing the portrait of the woman hit the mark exactly - I now see that I can fix the theater pix by pulling back the sharpening and noise reduction to relieve that ughy plastic look. Thanks very much.
Hi David, thanks for your great videos, I appreciate the time you take for these. :) Quick question for you regarding RAW vs ProRAW: now with the iPhone 14 Pro with its 48 MP sensor being out, Apple has not (yet?) opened up 48 MP for RAW photos; it is only possible to shoot 48 MP ProRAW. Not sure whether you have an iPhone 14 Pro already, but do you think a 48 MP ProRAW photo is superior over a 12 MP RAW one? Appreciate your thoughts! :)
Thank you for the comparison. I have been using mirroless cameras for a decade, and am thinking of purchasing iPhone 13 Pro. I really like to shoot RAW (not ProRaw). I had read instructions for setting ProRAW on, but never saw the instruction for setting RAW on. Could you tell me how can I shoot RAW with iPhone 13 Pro?
Brilliant video, you've literally covered all the aspects and questions that I had before clicking on this video with a touch of a professional and personal opinion. Thank you (:
You seemed to have skipped over the real problem with ProRAW files - there is a baked-in noise reduction that can't be undone. If you only ever show your pictures on a screen or print at the native size, this may not be a problem. But if you want to print big or use an app like Topaz (or even Adobe's "Enhance" function, to increase file size using AI, you will never get a good result from ProRAW because the sharpness has been removed to begin with.
Bro, iPhone 12 Pro and iPhone 13 Pro can take 12 bit colour depth photo when ProRaw turned on. But iPhone 14 Pro and 15 Pro can only take 10 bit colour depth photo when ProRaw turned on. Why ? I don't have an iPhone, so can anyone please let me know if you turn ProRaw in 12 megapixel instead of 48 megapixel, can it take 12 bit photos ? I'm curious about this because, 12-bit = 68 billion colours. But, 10-bit = 1.07 billion colours. That's a huge difference. If iPhone 14 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro cannot take 12 bit photos, that seems to be a huge downgrade !
As an ex-pro photographer, using some cameras sometimes on trips, the iPhone often replaces it for being way more practical and delivering good results (i am not comparing to a dslr for sure). Now knowing we can tune down and adjust fast the results from proraw, i will be using it more often on the 13 pro max. When a fast snap is required, proraw, when going out for photography fun, regular raw and spending some more time tuning it after. By the way, i found the telephoto lens way too dark at not so low light situations, endind up in a oil paint like picture, wich was not present on the 12 pro max, how are yours doing?
I'm leaning the same way as you so far: happy to leave the tone mapping etc... for quick snaps but won't be for 'photography fun' as you say. I've not explored the telephoto enough yet to really say, it'll be getting its own video soon as enough people are talking about the smaller aperture situation.
@@David_Addison i really enjoy your videos, keep them coming! As for the tele situation, google 13 pro max oil paint and many results will pop up in discussion forums!
Hi. Sorry I’m abusing your knowledge. iPhone 14 pro raw pics are 100 mb as we know. But the Lightroom exports to jpg on mine at the moment vary so much with the same settings. 15mb to 55mb. I’ve only just realised and prob why my Dropbox was going slow. Yes they are 9000x6000 ish but why so much variation with the same number of pixels on a jpg?
@@David_AddisonThanks for that explanation. This was driving me nuts after watching this video. If you explained that in the video, I must have missed it. Maybe put this information in the description?
Thank you for another thoughtful video. Like others , I admire your willingness to say that you have changed your mind. Learning and growing is what makes photography such fun. I'd be interested to hear your ongoing thoughts about the benefits or otherwise of using ProRaw with apps , such as Halide, in auto mode. I find that with my iPhone 13 Pro, using the native app, I can select the tele lens but the phone seems to be using digital zoom on the wide lens. Using Halide etc, this does not occur.
Hi David, I’ve just come across a bunch of your videos and saw your Halide MK II video. Felt like you were more for shooting in third-party apps. But in this video, seems you kind of went back on that. Is this the case? Is it worth investing in app like Halide, if you can undo over processed photos in proRAW?
Excellent video thank you! One thing I didn't understand: when you shoot RAW with Reeflex Pro Camera, you're still using proraw or you're shooting an actual raw?
I'm less interested in the minute pros and cons of the image quality between one Raw or the other than the ongoing problem of not being able to move RAW iPhone 13Pro photos around via gmail, We Transfer, DropBox, AirDrop , etc. What's the point of the high quality photo file if I can't send it to the print shop or load it on a thumb drive or move it between my devices without it switching to a jpg? I would appreciate any info on that.
If you use a Mac and iCloud Photo Library it's straightforward. Sending directly from the phone can be trickier. If you use a PC then I've no idea. Let me know.
I haven't splashed out on a new iPhone yet, still using my old faithful iPhone 7. I, being an amateur will probably use Pro Res Raw and be well pleased with it. I didn't mind the video sounding like a Podcast 😂👍 Yes, I watched to the end too plus read comments, thumbs up and all that Good stuff, I'd subscribe if I wasn't already 🙂
You were wrong! I don’t believe it. Another great video David. Very informative and honest. Relieved it was an aeroplane at the end and not that a bird had pooped on you!
How do you choose between raw and proraw? If I turn proraw off in settings, then I can’t shoot raw at all. I’m confused about how you were to shoot both standard raw and proraw to compare them?
You need to use a 3rd party camera app like Halide or Reeflex, John. If you're interested in shooting traditional RAW there's loads of app reviews on my channel 👍
Yeah, I'm still exploring whether or not there's a definitive reason to exclusively shoot ProRAW if all I'll be doing is making the files look like RAW files.
iPhone 15 RAW is about 12MP, but ProRAW shoots the full 48MP. HUGE difference right there. Massive. That right there is why I plan to shoot in ProRaw over RAW all the way. If I'm doing it wrong, tag me and set me straight :)
I really am considering investing in the iPhone 13, not only as a new phone but also as a "replacement" for a Nikon D3200. Now, I know in no way (talking about photography), it can beat the larger sensor and MP but, the easiness of a phone with good photo and video quality (having the option of RAW which I need) come in handy, even more in this social media era in which you don't really have the time to plug in your camera and open Lightroom and edit.
I own a Sony A7III but I shoot photos exclusively on my phone. Shooting with the 'big camera' is weird now! Let me know if you decide to invest and which videos you'd like to see 👍
Is the difference only noticeable when you share them to a computer? Been taking several pictures to experiment and see the difference, but not really seeing that there is a massive difference, besides the file size… Standard pictures are around 2mb RAW pictures are averaging about 25mb
Pro raw is just raw with a bunch of masks and effects applied. If you have the right software you can remove the effects and just have a regular raw file
My raw result is weird when capture in halide, i got good result in raw when preview in halide. But when i preview it in apple photos or lightroom or other raw editor it will more brighter. I cant solve this issue. I didnt have problem with moment camera app
hi! great video! i need an advice, i'm 11 pro user i don't want to upgrade, do you think there is an app to get images in the same pro raw quality as a 12 pro?
For me, even with the latest Iphone, we see that we are very far from the possibilities of retouching a real raw on a real camera. Stop spending your money on apps that promise you full control over the photo settings. The result is often worse than on the native application.
🙋🏻♂ Hey! Can someone comment on the following issue. I'm deep into the iPhone RAW Photography since my iPhone 7, NOW on a iPhone 13 without ProRaw). With the 13, Auto-Exposure the Exposure (like shown in the Video in Standart RAW) seems 1 stop overexposed all the time. Sometimes it's to hard to bring the Highlights back, have to manual -1 stop underexpose every time. Is this a Bug or has somebody an APP RECOMONDATION which can save or set a FIX -1 Underexpose Setting?? I didn't have had the Problem with my old iPhones ..THANKS!!!!!
If I am NOT going to edit my photos in post, is there an advantage to using ProRAW? May I use ProRAW and save them inthat format in case I want to edit later?? Will I need to convert them to JPEG in order to post on Facebook,etc ?
David, I have a question that I cannot find the answer to. I'm an artist and without getting into my 'why', I want to shoot my art using a phone camera and not a separate camera, but mainly it's because I want the convenience of having my art photos with me at all times to post on social, share, etc. BUT...I have issues with resolution/file size when I take photos on my phone then go try to make clothing from the files (they are too low resolution once emailed/sent from my phone. So a) I'm looking to upgrade to a better phone with a GREAT camera (I have an iPhone 8plus) but I'm also hoping for a camera that takes super high resolution photos. and b) if your recommendation is iPhone 13 or 13Pro because of the ProRAW option, do you HAVE to use a 3rd party app and pay for the app to edit/convert to jpg/png etc.? I am somewhat familiar with Lightroom but don't have a paid version and would love not to have to work all the time to adjust everything and go through a bunch of steps just to have photos ready for multiple applications. (Can you tell I'm ridiculously busy?) and finally...I was assuming these new phones like the Galaxy S21 Ultra or the Galaxy A52, because they had high MegaPixel cameras, would give me great and super huge images to reproduce onto wallpaper, quilt covers etc. but I'm seeing reviews saying the best cameras are still the iPhone... The current cell phone offers for xmas expire in 3 days so I've been wasting a ton of time trying to find these answers and nothing is really clarifying it for me! Please help!
Hey Pamela, thanks for your question! It sounds like your photos are being compressed when you email them or send them from your phone. Check the resolution of the photos on your 8 Plus and after you send them. I send photos with AirDrop, Dropbox or Google Drive. If you’re still wanting to upgrade, the iPhone 13 series has the same 12 megapixel resolution as the 8 Plus so from that perspective there’s no point in upgrading. I know nothing about Samsung but if you want higher res from an iPhone you can use an app like Pixelmater Photo to double your resolution (it’s a 1-time paid app). If you’re otherwise happy with the quality of your photos and you’re not shooting in low light then I’d stick with the 8 Plus.
Thank you so so much for this YT …. having progressively upgraded through all the iPhones when I got my 13 pro I was disappointed with the way many of the images looked and that image of the lady in the yellow jacket beside the lake is EXACTLY the problem that I am encountering the colours just look all wrong . Then the graphics you showed of the components of Apples Pro RAW capture opened my eyes as to where the problem is . It was bugging me so much I went to an Apple store to discuss the removal of smart HDR and scene detection ..thinking they are the culprit. …now I see the problem is Apple’s computational components. You show a solution in editing …is that Lightroom Mobile you are using ? So far I only use Lightroom Classic When you talk about shooting in raw I can see that you are using Halide . Have you compared to other camera apps that can shoot raw indeed even including the camera within Lightroom Mobile . Pro Cam 7 , Pro Camera and so on Thank you
I'm glad my video helped! Yes it's Lightroom Mobile. It's really good, especially if you find Classic slow or don't use all its features. And I've made reviews on all of the camera apps you mentioned; you'll find them on my channel 😊
Hello David. You talk about: "ProRAW vs RAW on iPhone 13 Pro Max". I've got the iPhone 13 Pro Max, BUT ... Where is RAW on iPhone 13 Pro Max? I can just find ProRAW: What am I missing?
When you go into Settings/Camera, to turn on ProRAW, there doesn’t seem to be a setting for just RAW (unless that is on the camera interface. I would imagine that when PRORAW is turned off, you may be getting merely RAW. Just a thought. It is a bit confusing. If anyone could clarify, I would appreciate it as well. I wouldn’t mind trying PRORAW, but would want the ability to adjust that final result as well.
Nice video as always. I'm still not convinced about Pro RAW. What's the point of using Pro RAW and then trying to make them look like a real RAW. As you said - I wouldn't say better - Pro RAW files are JPEG files on steroids. A RAW file that has some kind of processing is not a real RAW. Did I write ‘RAW’ too many times? 🤣
The noise reduction that is applied effectively makes it “fake RAW” in my book. I don’t think you should be praising it. I think you should try your best to reach out to Apple, to let them know that their camera team is pure crap. In compressed formats, faces come out orange and flat. In ProRaw, there is still too many edits being applies. No real RAW support in the native camera really shows how stupid and ignorant Apple is when it comes to photography. Let them know. Let them know. You’re a real photographer by the way and I’m highly impressed by the knowledge you have in photography. You have a good eye.
Thanks for watching Giovanni! Well, to be diplomatic they have made the camera API available for other developers to implement RAW, even if they don't want to themselves yet, so it could be worse!
This vid is my first encounter with your content. Thank you for being so thoughtful and thorough! I recently came across another video, on the Gentlemen Coders channel th-cam.com/video/LguSpnDoShM/w-d-xo.html. ("Linearized DNG" is a tech term I'm not familiar with.) I really want to learn more about ProRAW (currently, this longtime iPhone user dislikes it quite a bit). I appreciate your showing me how to remove some of the auto-processing-that's quite helpful. On the other hand, I'm in the U.S., and some of your onscreen camera controls are new to me. Where might I find the 12-bit and 10-bit as well as the RAW, RAW+, etc options? Looking forward to learning more!
What's your image format of choice?
I've been taking photos casually for about 20 years now. Got 13pro last month, first time iPhone user. I was impressed and slightly annoyed at the same time by the ProRAW processing.
It certainly takes some time to be convinced for someone coming from Manual RAW shooting experience.
At the end of the day, for me, it's really handy to take it out of my pocket and capture the moment without thinking about it too much, and spending slightly less time with editing.
It's great that some of the processing meta data is saved in the DNG file.
Great content David! Keep it coming!
Yeah it's not easy to embrace a new format, especially one that is seemingly at odds with what you've been shooting for 2 decades. I'm glad I can help a first time iPhone user get the most from the cameras!
I used proraw for over a year. I wouldn’t use raw now. I would only edit in Lightroom too.
RAW
Depends on what the subject is.
6:09 “these aren’t engaging shots”
So far those are my favorite. I love the capturing of the moment, they work together well in a series like that
There is a reason why many event photographers shoot RAW in Aperture priority mode… speed is the king and you can correct the exposure settings in post .
I’ve been experimenting a bit and have found that, for me, going into the details panel and eliminating the sharpness and noise reduction is better than using a different preset. With no sharpness and noise reduction, the pro raw files are really good to work with. Thanks , David, for coming up with the solution!
My initial impression was that Proraw appeared very clinical. Then I took images into desktop lightroom classic and noticed a slider for the adobe profile. Pulling this to the left gets rid of the hdr like effect and the outdoor images are beautiful. That slider also seems to remove the mushiness and results are clearly sharper than the third party raw output. The benefit is similar to the benefit with sensor shift in mirrorless cameras, except with mirrorless, the process is too slow to be useful. The reduction in shadow noise is amazing. Files are definitely worthy of further work in camera raw / photoshop.
Well done, David. Learning from experience is the sign of mature thought and I appreciate your willingness to learn. For me, the easiest, shortest way to the same result would be my choice.
This comment means you watched until the end so thank you Stuart, I genuinely appreciate that a lot! 'Easiest and shortest way to the same result': love that!
ProRAW has one substantial disadvantage - the noise reduction applied to it is permanent and cannot be "dialled down" like sharpness settings. And in some cases it is quite excessive - on my Iphone 13 Pro Max telephoto camera the noise reduction applied to ProRAW is 0.95 (1 is max). This makes all details disappear and looks like waterpainting. It can be easily replicated when shooting with telephoto lens on iPhone 13 Pro for example in both ProRAW and normal raw mode in Halide II - focus on infinity or some distant subject and the difference is night and day. So I still use Halide II with normal raw not ProRAW.
I have my iPhone set to RAW permanently. If I want to edit a photo I have tons of leeway, but when I just want to take and text a quick snap it’s fast and sends as jpeg. It’s pretty much perfect.
I like the approach. I just got 13 pro max yesterday and I am a photographer also feeling the same way you do about many things. It’s a great feature and I love it.
Thanks for the insight. I kept wondering whether Lightroom was pre-editing my proraw photos, but it looks like that was Apple…learning how to adjust the profile was great
You're right, Lightroom edits them more than Apple due to how it interprets the data. If you compare Lightroom and your Photos app side by side, you'll notice how much more sharpening Lightroom applies by default for example.
I respect that you are able to admit that it is alright to change your mind about this. I do think that we gain more knowledge learning how to edit our own RAW images, but we also need to realize that progress can be made with new inventions and knowledge. It’s important that we can change over time. and
I was able to see how to change to PRORAW in Settings/Camera, but did not see the ability to use merely RAW. It is a bit confusing and would love it if anyone can clarify this.
Great insight on Proraw! I’ve played a little more with it and indeed you can reduce some of the preset sharpness values and it does produce a more natural image. While I’m not amazed by the sometimes mushy details, in some situations like handheld lowlight Proraw really is useful.
Great content keep it up! 👍
Yeah, sometimes the semantic segmentation decides to soften details it deems 'unimportant'. This happened to me once while shooting for this video but I often won't mention something if it happens only once. This is a reason I need to keep exploring the format though.
The moment the image is taken is more important than the number of specs a camera has. Also I've learned something new. I did not know you could lower the sharpness of a proraw image. Great video.
Thanks for watching and glad you learned something!
You just earned another sub, recently stepped into the iPhone world with a 14pro and your Halide video is pure gold, as well as this one. Tons of info I never even knew such as how proraw images are different in other apps compared to the native one. Keep up the fantastic work I'll be sure to binge your other content.
Thanks a lot! Glad you like my stuff
I havent found a RAW shooting app ever that lets us shoot more than 1 second. They may have changed with iOS15.1. So for what I do, its always going to be ProRAW. Im glad you pointed out that you can adjust things to your liking in the edit, we are not stuck with what Apple thinks we should have. Good video mate. Where did you film this? Why is there a tank there? Looks Soviet. Pretty sure is a T55. Thats a part of my brain I havent used in a while!
Thanks Shayne, yeah it's a T55 outside the Imperial War Museum near me. Yeah, it's still 1 second, probably for thermal/battery reasons but an increase is way long overdue now!
I'm so underwhelmed with proraw. I've been shooting Raw on iPhones for years starting with the iphone 6s, 6s plus, 8 plus, SE 2020, and now the 12 pro. I started with using Musecam to capture the Raw photos but moved on to Lightroom. With proraw, no matter what you do, which profile you use, which sliders you manipulate, it always looks like a muddy, dirty, compressed JPG, especially when you zoom into 100% and look at fine details. Compared to Raw which has the nice fine lines and detail we all love, albeit with lots of noise when not in perfect lighting conditions. I shoot predominantly street so I love being able to leave my cameras at home and just take my phone. Also, I crop a lot so I was so excited to get this magical new raw format with way less grain etc, so I can crop in and recover greatly underexposed images that I sometimes catch in the heat of the moment. But wow has proraw let me down. I was hoping proraw from a 3rd party app might save the day as I've been using apple's native camera app, so I still have to test something like Moment or Halide and hope they can do some magic. At least with street the moment is what matters and the technical stuff isn't as important
any update? do you still prefer Raw or ProRaw?
@@StarBattle08 I haven’t done further testing but I’m still using Lightroom mobile and Fjorden for raw shooting
Great video! I have been hearing about Apples photos being over processed but I didn’t know you can undo some of that this easily in lightroom. I was thinking of using a third party camera app but I think i will just stick with the default app
I stumbled upon this accidentally searching for some specs, but I must appreciate the obsession over 100% view pixel-peeping yet shooting with an iphone or the arguments for being in control and part of the creative process mixed with the arguments of not really wanting to be that much a part of the process. It's a mobile phone lol.
Thanks, David. Videos like this are the reason your my main source for iPhone photography.
Thank you for this video. But I am confused how to use the native camera app to shoot normal RAW. I have the iPhone 12 Pro, but the only option I have is to switch ProRaw on or off in the settings. I do not see a switch for RAW only. Is this an option exclusive to the iPhone 13 Pro?
You need a third party all like moment camera
Normal raw is with pro raw off
All good. Try and focus on creating moods for a while. Then come back to
this subject. Don’t miss the point of creating images 🙌🏼
Good video. I’ve been shooting ProRAW + HEIC with Halide for a year now. I like having both files on hand so I don’t need to do an export just to get a compressed file that I can share.
I find that apples dedicated photo editing app works best for pro raw compared to Lightroom.
Exactly what i was searching for! very very very good informative Video!
Love your videos. Love how honest you are. Thanks
I knew you could do it. As you said, even if you want to make the ProRAW files look "exactly" like the RAW files, at least your initial shots are quicker and easier. Only issue is that they are way larger, but that is not usually a problem.
For me it is consistency. I use Halide on my 13PM for RAW as I can get a consistent shot - I know what to expect and what I am getting. With the Camera app, even in ProRaw, there is a lack of consistency in the photos taken. hardware is top rate. The software on the other hand…
i recently switched from Android (used gcam raw) to iphone 13 pro and feel the same as you. Cause i too enjoy the process of shaping the output.
Another great video David, very informative as always, keep them coming!
Thanks Andy! I will do 😊
Okay, simple question. iPhone Pro and Pro Max models are expensive. iPhone 15 has come out, but only pro models have the ProRaw function, plus the default camera app is limited. Will it be better to save a lot of money by buying a regular model like the iPhone 15 Plus, which this year upgraded to a 48-megapixel sensor, and also buy one of the apps for photography that you suggest Halide mark 2 and shoot raw and edit them as we like? Why pay that much for the pro model to have the ProRaw function? Your opinion, what will you suggest?
Seeing as the proraw have the same noise reduction as the JPEG out of the camera just use the Lightroom app and shoot raw. I have a iPhone 13 pro and can shoot raw with all three cameras with Lightroom and the result when applying your own noise reduction instead of the camera is much better. More detail can be brought back, the grass no longer looks like mush.
Hi there, quick question: how do you shoot raw instead of proraw on the 13 pro? I have the phone but seem to be only able to switch between proraw or nothing
@@lucioledizerot196 you can use a third party app like lightroom to shoot in raw. I don't think there's a setting in the camera app to shoot in raw just pro raw. Your best bet is to use a third party app. Lightroom is the best as it lets you shoot raw with all three cameras and allows you to edit them. It's free but if you want to use the clone stamp tool and geometry corrects you have to pay 7.99 per month. I can still use most of the raw edits in the free version though.
I like your presentation in your videos! subscribed!
Hi, David -- It sounds like you do your LR processing exclusively on your phone. For those of us who prefer using our desktops, are the same processing procedures you mention for ProRAW available to us? If so, are they implemented in the same way? Thank you.
Great video! I myself am a proponent of normal RAW files (I prefer the noise over the blurriness) ever since getting a 12 PM last year, but I feel like I will have to use ProRaw more this year, as this year's tele lens (my favorite) simply cannot handle anything shot after like 6 PM.
Lately from all the apps I use for both videography and photography I seem to be defaulting back to the stock IOS app as well. For me It needs the least amount of pre-shooting setup and post-shooting color correction. Stock Dolby HDR and ProRaw seems to be on another level, sadly no shutter speed is limiting them both.
Yes exactly! NEED those manual controls.
Well, David, how timely could this be? I've been shooting ProRaw all along with the 13 Pro Max and I'm not entirely bucked by the results of shooting stills during a very professional school play - I don't like the look of the faces straight out of the camera, and your first example of fixing the portrait of the woman hit the mark exactly - I now see that I can fix the theater pix by pulling back the sharpening and noise reduction to relieve that ughy plastic look. Thanks very much.
Hi David, thanks for your great videos, I appreciate the time you take for these. :) Quick question for you regarding RAW vs ProRAW: now with the iPhone 14 Pro with its 48 MP sensor being out, Apple has not (yet?) opened up 48 MP for RAW photos; it is only possible to shoot 48 MP ProRAW. Not sure whether you have an iPhone 14 Pro already, but do you think a 48 MP ProRAW photo is superior over a 12 MP RAW one? Appreciate your thoughts! :)
Thanks Andre! Sorry, I don’t have an iPhone 14 Pro
Thank you for the comparison. I have been using mirroless cameras for a decade, and am thinking of purchasing iPhone 13 Pro. I really like to shoot RAW (not ProRaw). I had read instructions for setting ProRAW on, but never saw the instruction for setting RAW on.
Could you tell me how can I shoot RAW with iPhone 13 Pro?
I think you need to use a 3rd party app to shoot true RAW
what I was thinking is, iPhone 14 cold come up with 1 inch sensor and an interchangeable lens system mag safe based :) imagine that :D
Extremely ambitious 😄 it wouldn’t surprise me if it happened as Apple would LOVE to sell everyone lenses for an additional £499 each
Brilliant video, you've literally covered all the aspects and questions that I had before clicking on this video with a touch of a professional and personal opinion. Thank you (:
You seemed to have skipped over the real problem with ProRAW files - there is a baked-in noise reduction that can't be undone. If you only ever show your pictures on a screen or print at the native size, this may not be a problem. But if you want to print big or use an app like Topaz (or even Adobe's "Enhance" function, to increase file size using AI, you will never get a good result from ProRAW because the sharpness has been removed to begin with.
Bro, iPhone 12 Pro and iPhone 13 Pro can take 12 bit colour depth photo when ProRaw turned on. But iPhone 14 Pro and 15 Pro can only take 10 bit colour depth photo when ProRaw turned on. Why ?
I don't have an iPhone, so can anyone please let me know if you turn ProRaw in 12 megapixel instead of 48 megapixel, can it take 12 bit photos ?
I'm curious about this because, 12-bit = 68 billion colours. But, 10-bit = 1.07 billion colours. That's a huge difference.
If iPhone 14 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro cannot take 12 bit photos, that seems to be a huge downgrade !
ProRaw and ProRes available only in stock camera of 12 Pro, Pro Max, 13 Pro, 13 Pro Max and Newer iPhones
Thank you! I have an IPhone 13 Pro. I am very interested in t learning how to maximize their cane for landscaping.
Great video, thanks!
As an ex-pro photographer, using some cameras sometimes on trips, the iPhone often replaces it for being way more practical and delivering good results (i am not comparing to a dslr for sure). Now knowing we can tune down and adjust fast the results from proraw, i will be using it more often on the 13 pro max. When a fast snap is required, proraw, when going out for photography fun, regular raw and spending some more time tuning it after.
By the way, i found the telephoto lens way too dark at not so low light situations, endind up in a oil paint like picture, wich was not present on the 12 pro max, how are yours doing?
I'm leaning the same way as you so far: happy to leave the tone mapping etc... for quick snaps but won't be for 'photography fun' as you say. I've not explored the telephoto enough yet to really say, it'll be getting its own video soon as enough people are talking about the smaller aperture situation.
@@David_Addison i really enjoy your videos, keep them coming! As for the tele situation, google 13 pro max oil paint and many results will pop up in discussion forums!
Hi. Sorry I’m abusing your knowledge. iPhone 14 pro raw pics are 100 mb as we know. But the Lightroom exports to jpg on mine at the moment vary so much with the same settings. 15mb to 55mb. I’ve only just realised and prob why my Dropbox was going slow. Yes they are 9000x6000 ish but why so much variation with the same number of pixels on a jpg?
When you export, try lowering the image quality to 60-80 to save space.
Thanks for the great review
Isn’t there a problem using pro raw when there is movement in the scene?
Daft question. How does one capture photos in plain Raw and not in ProRaw? I use the iPhone LR app for post processing.
It's not a daft question. You need a 3rd party camera app. There are loads available in the App Store at various price points. Fjorden is a free one.
@@David_Addison Thanks Dave. So I captured the image through Fjorden which I assume is still in Raw and then processed it via the iPhone photo.
@@David_AddisonThanks for that explanation. This was driving me nuts after watching this video. If you explained that in the video, I must have missed it. Maybe put this information in the description?
Thank you for another thoughtful video. Like others , I admire your willingness to say that you have changed your mind. Learning and growing is what makes photography such fun. I'd be interested to hear your ongoing thoughts about the benefits or otherwise of using ProRaw with apps , such as Halide, in auto mode. I find that with my iPhone 13 Pro, using the native app, I can select the tele lens but the phone seems to be using digital zoom on the wide lens. Using Halide etc, this does not occur.
Hi David, I’ve just come across a bunch of your videos and saw your Halide MK II video. Felt like you were more for shooting in third-party apps. But in this video, seems you kind of went back on that. Is this the case? Is it worth investing in app like Halide, if you can undo over processed photos in proRAW?
the problem with standard pro raw on the original camera app its bitrate,no mo camera app its actually way better,it has a 16bit processing pipeline
Great insight, thank you!!
Thanks.
Excellent video thank you! One thing I didn't understand: when you shoot RAW with Reeflex Pro Camera, you're still using proraw or you're shooting an actual raw?
I'm less interested in the minute pros and cons of the image quality between one Raw or the other than the ongoing problem of not being able to move RAW iPhone 13Pro photos around via gmail, We Transfer, DropBox, AirDrop , etc. What's the point of the high quality photo file if I can't send it to the print shop or load it on a thumb drive or move it between my devices without it switching to a jpg? I would appreciate any info on that.
If you use a Mac and iCloud Photo Library it's straightforward. Sending directly from the phone can be trickier. If you use a PC then I've no idea. Let me know.
I haven't splashed out on a new iPhone yet, still using my old faithful iPhone 7. I, being an amateur will probably use Pro Res Raw and be well pleased with it. I didn't mind the video sounding like a Podcast 😂👍 Yes, I watched to the end too plus read comments, thumbs up and all that Good stuff, I'd subscribe if I wasn't already 🙂
You were wrong! I don’t believe it. Another great video David. Very informative and honest. Relieved it was an aeroplane at the end and not that a bird had pooped on you!
Haha I love being wrong Mike, especially in front of thousands of people. Thanks for watching right until the end too! ❤️
How do you choose between raw and proraw? If I turn proraw off in settings, then I can’t shoot raw at all. I’m confused about how you were to shoot both standard raw and proraw to compare them?
You need to use a 3rd party camera app like Halide or Reeflex, John. If you're interested in shooting traditional RAW there's loads of app reviews on my channel 👍
yet what do you prefer in the end? proraw or raw
I know moment is the best bang for your buck but pro cam 8 is more stable so which do I choose?
for me it's just another tool to use. I don't do this or that exclusively. with quick shots mostly proRAW. composed shots more RAW only
Yeah, I'm still exploring whether or not there's a definitive reason to exclusively shoot ProRAW if all I'll be doing is making the files look like RAW files.
iPhone 15 RAW is about 12MP, but ProRAW shoots the full 48MP. HUGE difference right there. Massive. That right there is why I plan to shoot in ProRaw over RAW all the way. If I'm doing it wrong, tag me and set me straight :)
Is this something I will notice on my phone? Or on a computer?
ProRAW bakes in Noise Reduction. Which I do not like. I like a tiny bit of image noise. It's particularly natural on the S23 Ultra.
I shoot only in ProRAW it does a fine job and I have enough latitude to modify it as I wish
QUESTION - How do you shoot just RAW on a iPhone 13pro/max? I can see how you select Apple pro raw ok... But how do I select just RAW please? Thanks
How does one turn on the Raw setting on the iPhone, and is it better to give the ProRaw option turned on or off in the settings?
Great vid
I really am considering investing in the iPhone 13, not only as a new phone but also as a "replacement" for a Nikon D3200. Now, I know in no way (talking about photography), it can beat the larger sensor and MP but, the easiness of a phone with good photo and video quality (having the option of RAW which I need) come in handy, even more in this social media era in which you don't really have the time to plug in your camera and open Lightroom and edit.
I own a Sony A7III but I shoot photos exclusively on my phone. Shooting with the 'big camera' is weird now! Let me know if you decide to invest and which videos you'd like to see 👍
Is the difference only noticeable when you share them to a computer? Been taking several pictures to experiment and see the difference, but not really seeing that there is a massive difference, besides the file size…
Standard pictures are around 2mb
RAW pictures are averaging about 25mb
How to set the format to RAW? I see only ProRAW option
I would like to see a link of proraw files samples which you took.
Pro raw is just raw with a bunch of masks and effects applied. If you have the right software you can remove the effects and just have a regular raw file
Not entirely true. There are artefacts baked into the linear DNG ProRaw file that can’t be removed.
Hi, what's the editor you used to show the ProRaw profile and being able to scale it back? Is that Lighroom CC?
Yes it’s Lightroom CC running on my Mac
My raw result is weird when capture in halide, i got good result in raw when preview in halide. But when i preview it in apple photos or lightroom or other raw editor it will more brighter. I cant solve this issue. I didnt have problem with moment camera app
Hi, amazing video, thanks! What third-party app would you recommend to shoot RAW on a regular Iphone 13 (not Pro or ProMax). Thanks
luma
what u mean with RAW and PRORAW? i just see RAW on or off on my iphone 13 pro
hi! great video! i need an advice, i'm 11 pro user i don't want to upgrade, do you think there is an app to get images in the same pro raw quality as a 12 pro?
For me, even with the latest Iphone, we see that we are very far from the possibilities of retouching a real raw on a real camera.
Stop spending your money on apps that promise you full control over the photo settings. The result is often worse than on the native application.
Xrong point my buddy
Thanks for the great video! BTW, which app do you use to shoot RAW?
I use a few depending on what mood I'm in. Reeflex, Halide and CameraPixels mainly.
@@David_Addison Thanks a lot!
🙋🏻♂ Hey! Can someone comment on the following issue. I'm deep into the iPhone RAW Photography since my iPhone 7, NOW on a iPhone 13 without ProRaw). With the 13, Auto-Exposure the Exposure (like shown in the Video in Standart RAW) seems 1 stop overexposed all the time. Sometimes it's to hard to bring the Highlights back, have to manual -1 stop underexpose every time. Is this a Bug or has somebody an APP RECOMONDATION which can save or set a FIX -1 Underexpose Setting?? I didn't have had the Problem with my old iPhones ..THANKS!!!!!
How can I shoot raw on an iPhone ?
What app do you use?
If I am NOT going to edit my photos in post, is there an advantage to using ProRAW? May I use ProRAW and save them inthat format in case I want to edit later?? Will I need to convert them to JPEG in order to post on Facebook,etc ?
Can be a selfie with frontal camera be done with ProRAW?
What App did you edit the photos in? Is it Lightroom?
How did you shot in raw on iphone?
David, I have a question that I cannot find the answer to. I'm an artist and without getting into my 'why', I want to shoot my art using a phone camera and not a separate camera, but mainly it's because I want the convenience of having my art photos with me at all times to post on social, share, etc. BUT...I have issues with resolution/file size when I take photos on my phone then go try to make clothing from the files (they are too low resolution once emailed/sent from my phone.
So a) I'm looking to upgrade to a better phone with a GREAT camera (I have an iPhone 8plus) but I'm also hoping for a camera that takes super high resolution photos.
and b) if your recommendation is iPhone 13 or 13Pro because of the ProRAW option, do you HAVE to use a 3rd party app and pay for the app to edit/convert to jpg/png etc.? I am somewhat familiar with Lightroom but don't have a paid version and would love not to have to work all the time to adjust everything and go through a bunch of steps just to have photos ready for multiple applications. (Can you tell I'm ridiculously busy?)
and finally...I was assuming these new phones like the Galaxy S21 Ultra or the Galaxy A52, because they had high MegaPixel cameras, would give me great and super huge images to reproduce onto wallpaper, quilt covers etc. but I'm seeing reviews saying the best cameras are still the iPhone...
The current cell phone offers for xmas expire in 3 days so I've been wasting a ton of time trying to find these answers and nothing is really clarifying it for me! Please help!
Hey Pamela, thanks for your question! It sounds like your photos are being compressed when you email them or send them from your phone. Check the resolution of the photos on your 8 Plus and after you send them. I send photos with AirDrop, Dropbox or Google Drive.
If you’re still wanting to upgrade, the iPhone 13 series has the same 12 megapixel resolution as the 8 Plus so from that perspective there’s no point in upgrading. I know nothing about Samsung but if you want higher res from an iPhone you can use an app like Pixelmater Photo to double your resolution (it’s a 1-time paid app).
If you’re otherwise happy with the quality of your photos and you’re not shooting in low light then I’d stick with the 8 Plus.
Thank you so so much for this YT …. having progressively upgraded through all the iPhones when I got my 13 pro I was disappointed with the way many of the images looked and that image of the lady in the yellow jacket beside the lake is EXACTLY the problem that I am encountering the colours just look all wrong . Then the graphics you showed of the components of Apples Pro RAW capture opened my eyes as to where the problem is . It was bugging me so much I went to an Apple store to discuss the removal of smart HDR and scene detection ..thinking they are the culprit. …now I see the problem is Apple’s computational components.
You show a solution in editing …is that Lightroom Mobile you are using ? So far I only use Lightroom Classic
When you talk about shooting in raw I can see that you are using Halide . Have you compared to other camera apps that can shoot raw indeed even including the camera within Lightroom Mobile . Pro Cam 7 , Pro Camera and so on
Thank you
I'm glad my video helped! Yes it's Lightroom Mobile. It's really good, especially if you find Classic slow or don't use all its features. And I've made reviews on all of the camera apps you mentioned; you'll find them on my channel 😊
Is it available in 128gb?
Proraw? You mean on Halide?
Hello David. You talk about: "ProRAW vs RAW on iPhone 13 Pro Max". I've got the iPhone 13 Pro Max, BUT ... Where is RAW on iPhone 13 Pro Max? I can just find ProRAW: What am I missing?
Hi Michael, you need a 3rd party camera app to shoot in RAW. I have reviews for a lot of them on my channel to help you find the right one for you
When you go into Settings/Camera, to turn on ProRAW, there doesn’t seem to be a setting for just RAW (unless that is on the camera interface. I would imagine that when PRORAW is turned off, you may be getting merely RAW. Just a thought. It is a bit confusing. If anyone could clarify, I would appreciate it as well. I wouldn’t mind trying PRORAW, but would want the ability to adjust that final result as well.
What application do you use to edit the Pro Raw files?
I'm currently using Lightroom Mobile.
Nice video as always.
I'm still not convinced about Pro RAW. What's the point of using Pro RAW and then trying to make them look like a real RAW. As you said - I wouldn't say better - Pro RAW files are JPEG files on steroids. A RAW file that has some kind of processing is not a real RAW.
Did I write ‘RAW’ too many times? 🤣
Yeah, it's not 'real' RAW, its actual name is Linear DNG and Adobe adapted it for Apple and ProRAW. Some info I cut from the video for time 😊
why do people shoot in portrait mode when they are shooting landscape... isn't portrait mode for shooting " portraits "...
You'll have to ask them dude.
lol fr. And also what up whats up the video color
If you‘re so good at it, why is your face blown out throughout the video?
What do you mean?
LOL I was thinking the same. Video is awfully edited, face is totally blown
The noise reduction that is applied effectively makes it “fake RAW” in my book. I don’t think you should be praising it. I think you should try your best to reach out to Apple, to let them know that their camera team is pure crap. In compressed formats, faces come out orange and flat. In ProRaw, there is still too many edits being applies. No real RAW support in the native camera really shows how stupid and ignorant Apple is when it comes to photography. Let them know. Let them know.
You’re a real photographer by the way and I’m highly impressed by the knowledge you have in photography. You have a good eye.
Thanks for watching Giovanni! Well, to be diplomatic they have made the camera API available for other developers to implement RAW, even if they don't want to themselves yet, so it could be worse!
This vid is my first encounter with your content. Thank you for being so thoughtful and thorough!
I recently came across another video, on the Gentlemen Coders channel th-cam.com/video/LguSpnDoShM/w-d-xo.html. ("Linearized DNG" is a tech term I'm not familiar with.) I really want to learn more about ProRAW (currently, this longtime iPhone user dislikes it quite a bit).
I appreciate your showing me how to remove some of the auto-processing-that's quite helpful. On the other hand, I'm in the U.S., and some of your onscreen camera controls are new to me. Where might I find the 12-bit and 10-bit as well as the RAW, RAW+, etc options?
Looking forward to learning more!
this mans forehead legally blinded me
Amazing how you typed while blinded
@@David_Addison sad thing is I can type on my phone without looking