They blamed me after a DOGBITE. Who's fault is it?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
- So much for getting Joey trained...
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Fellow dog trainer here: never trust in boarding trainers. The role of a dog trainer is to teach the OWNER how to train their dog. Nothing should ever be hidden behind closed doors, you should know exactly what's happening with your dog at all times so both you and the dog can learn from the experience. Look for a 1-1 trainer that specialises in farm dog training, not a general pet trainer. I'm hoping things get better in the future and that the experience doesn't put you off training Joey completely.
This 🤌👏👏
That is so true. Dogs and owners are trained together
This exactly!
Even more so when you have a dog breed that is known to get nervous easily when in new situations and away from the owner. Honestly, the fact that they even allowed Joey into their board and train program is absurd, and then the fact that they sound like they put her in a communal dog area on the first day is even worse. (it sounded like a dog park like setup was were Joey bit the trainer but I could be wrong).
Also as a side note: there are some really good trainers who will board dogs for training. Although they wouldn't ever have that many dogs at once and would constantly keep the owner informed on what is going on and what they're working on. I've even seen programs where the owner comes in for training sessions throughout the entire boarding process.
Usually that set up is for trainers who teach more complicated stuff than just basic obedience though. Since, in that case, it makes sense that the trainer would need more time to work with the dog to teach them and then can have a session with the owner to show how to ask the dog for that command and what not. Super useful for training service dogs complicated tasks that the owner has absolutely no clue how to even begin training
👍
I am a certified professional dog trainer and behaviorist… You are completely in the right in this case. Those sorts of board and train programs that are kennel-based are very old-fashioned and very aversive. The clip you showed of your dog right at the beginning… The dog looks very stressed. Please contact me if you would like to talk about the situation and let me steer you to a good qualified trainer in your area please!
Feel free to email us if you know of some trainers in the Kansas City area. Thanks!
@kikopup Emily they ask at the end for a possible TH-cam collaboration- can you contact them?
@@whitehouseonthehill I second the suggestion for @kikopup
@@sarahkalnajs5810 Sarah, you can click on their TH-cam account and go to the About tab, you can find their email add over there.
@@sarahkalnajs5810 I think you might have to go through their website and click the message icon that pops up.
The worst thing a trainer can say is “we’ve trained this dog or these dogs” every dog has their own issues their own reactions instead of treating every dog the same she needed someone to get to know her see her reactions in situations. The way I see it it’s just like calves. You never know how a momma is gonna react so you treat lightly until you get an understanding with that cow. I will never touch another persons dog without that dog getting used to me before I even think of messing with it. She’s an amazing dog from what I see and she’s still a puppy my heart goes out to you all and I hope you find a reliable trainer.
Exactly. People need to stop treating dogs as though they are one when in reality every dog is different, and yes every breed has its characteristics that make it a breed, but the individual dog has a personality and characteristics that make it an individual.
First thing I was told when getting our livestock guardian dog, is get a trainer to come to the farm, do not send them somewhere. Training is mostly about training YOU. This place sounds ill-equipped.
Any PROFESSIONAL who handles animals understands the inherent risks involved. If they lack the experience or proper procedure to handle animals, they should find another occupation.
Yeah Really. one incident at the very beginning and they send her home already????
Well said. I completely agree. I have over fifty years of experience with handling dogs, and I have never been so speechless by the man's lack of professionalism.
You personnally need to put some training on her. Teach her a solid "lie down" on her--do it in the house first, while, you are eating. Have her lie down beside you and stay even if you get up and get something and return. Aussies work BEST FOR THEIR OWNERS--NOT STRANGERS!!! DOGS are NOT "PUSH BUTTON" and herding dogs work on RELATIONSHIP!!!
REPLY--I'LL GIVE YOU A WAY TO CONTACT ME!!!
The key words here, in Joey's defense, is "It was a provoke bite." She was extremely stressed, fearful and that triggered a fight or flight response. If they claim they didn't see the bite coming, then they are the ones who need training.
They are so called "professionals" that didn't even know the basic signs of stress in a dog let alone how to handle said stressed dog. Every trainer knows the basics of dog behavior for this reason. They are clearly under qualified.
They supposedly train aggressive dogs........ Then they should know the signs of a dog that is stressed and might attack
I agree! The trainer should of seen that bite coming! My friends dog is very under socialized around New people and is very fearful of other big dogs and I am the one who has been walking him for over 5 months now and when asked if someone can pet him I always say no bcuz he has shown signs that he is okay one second and for no reason has lunged at people bcuz I believe he is afraid and I'm trying to talk my friend into finding him a new home while he us still young. If I dont walk him, feed him or give him water his owner does not do it. I left for a wkend and he was not walked not once! I was mind blown having 2 teens in the house and still no walks come on. Sorry venting Joey is an amazing dog and needs time to adjust when somewhere knew!
This! All that training he said he had done. "Hes seen all the police dogs, all of them and, never experianced this" that struck me as off.. I'm assuming hes worked with "already trained" police dogs and just did extra add on training.. The training Joey needs hes probably never done before. Or thats how it felt to me. I pray they find the trainer that fits their needs and Joey's ofcourse. She seems likes she has a great base line already just in the way she acts.
@@moonbloodrose3257 Agreed
I don’t believe the “trainer” for one second when he said “he’s never been bit”. I hope the didn’t provoke her by hurting her or being forceful with her. My dog needs to get muzzled at the vet but she’ll never bite the people she’s close with. What a terrible thing to say to “watch your kids”.
It looks like a prison, a literal prison for dogs. Poor Joey, I understand how provoked and scared she must of felt
Once that leash is handed over to a trainer, they are responsible for the safety of the dog as well as the safety and wellbeing of other animals and people on those premises.
EXACTLY!!
I have a problem with the fact that the dog wasn't on a leash at the time 😑 that was a big No-No and that was on the error of the trainer. Why is a brand new dog that you don't know off its leash?
The fact that there was so much chaos there with all them dogs over excited and barking away like that tells me that this facility has no idea what they are doing. To seriously train dogs you need a quiet environment so that the dog and trainer are concentrating on each other. No way that was going to happen there with all that chaos. Place needs to be shut down
This. EXACTLY THIS.
Veterinarian and herding breed enthusiast here - I don't buy that they have never been bitten. I also don't think they are used to Australian Shepherds *at all* if they thought just walking up and popping a leash on a strange dog was a good idea like that. Dogs HATE having their necks reached for by strangers. I was immediately put off by the sights and sounds at that facility. I think you're much better off trying a group class with Joey to work on recall, jumping, chasing, etc. One where you are with her the entire time. And if you notice aggressive behaviors *at all* with strangers there is always the option of talking to a veterinary behaviorist.
I was about to say the same thing. This is no different then a Vet, tech, assistant, or groomer saying we have never been bitten. That would be the largest lie anyone in the dog industry has ever said..this trainer is a crock
I have absolutely no doubt Joey is a wonderful pup. From the looks of the facility, it looks like the owners had a barn and the ability to board dogs and thought it was an entrepreneurial opportunity.
I’m so sorry that happened to you! As someone who owns a dog who’s bitten people, the shame and anxiety that comes with it is so real. Know that your picture of Joey is clear. Someone will come to her with training that fits.
Love your channel so much!
Get some one to come to your farm, or a place where you are involved too. Joey is a great dog. Prayers for you all!
The only critique I have for you is in choosing that "training facility" in the first place. The loud barking dogs and the fact that those kennels were directly next to each with no partition between them is a dog fight through the fence waiting to happen. I find it very unlikely that this is the first time their "trainer" got bitten. I'm no animal behaviorist, I just work as a veterinary technician. But for me it doesn't matter how good a dog is at first glance. I'm fully aware of the stressfull, fearful and potentially painful situation each patient is put into and be ready to react accordingly. All too often I have had a happy, friendly energetic young dog suddenly turn to snap without warning in response to an action we have to perform that they don't appreciate or are fearful of. I never blame the patient though and I definitely don't then go to the client and go on about all the other difficult patients I've handled without issue. I still get bit sometimes too despite all this but that's on me for not reading a patient correctly or not having the proper hold on them. I wish you the best in finding a proper trainer for her. She is definitely not a bad dog or an untrainable one.
So true
I find it very hard to believe that a dog trainer that's worked with "thousands" of dogs has never been bitten by a dog multiple times like that
Kind of felt like they were trying to throw our dog under the bus by saying that to me.
💯
Even Caesar Milan has been bite many times
I said the same thing!! "I know thats a damn lie" I believe were the words I used when he said that. I cannot imagine the amount of stress from that environment, and the kennels are horrendous with having no separation between the dogs. Might be a blessing in disguise that you'll be able to find a better trainer fit for Joey, now, and she won't be at that place for a month.
Joey was definitely out of her element at the training facility. Dogs are not themselves when they're scared and uncomfortable. I work as a vet technician and I fully understand that the dogs that show aggression at a vet clinic are only acting out of fear. These same dogs can also be the most loving and gentle pets at home. Unfortunately living in a secluded bubble such as your farm most likely limited her socialization with strangers or other dogs, which may have contributed to her fearful actions at the trainer. None of this is your fault, you had no idea Joey would react this way. But now you know of Joey's fearfulness in stressful settings and can adjust your training plan to match her comfort level!
Yes but don't for get that the trainer supposedly never been bit? That's not true because every world wide trainer's will say that you will get bit by at least 4 dogs if Lucky take Victory the dog trainer she is one of the best but she gets bit a lot I think they was trying to lie to him as well and keeping dogs in small Cage's with a lot of energy makes them hard to train as well
You don’t need to be worried for your kids.... that guy is an idiot “trainer”. You’re on point with everything you said. He’s in the wrong and you should call o it his terrible business.
From what he just said when you picked up Joey, I get the impression they probably hold or board the police dogs, not train them.
And just listening to all the dogs barking in that facility and just what little we were able to see of the dogs in kennels, I was feeling stressed with all the noise.
Joey seems like a really sweet dog, it’s awful that some training facilities are like this :(. Definitely seems like the trainer went out of Joey’s comfort zone, considering the fact she’s a sweet dog, dogs don’t randomly do out of character things, definitely seems like the trainer didn’t acknowledge Joey’s comfort level.
I agree!
@@vickypicky me too
Dogs don't bite without a reason. If they know so much they should have been prepared for fear aggression
That's how it sounded to me... she was definitely fearful in her position.
came here to say this, most dogs in a new environment as busy as a kennel are going to be anxious and fear biting should be expected as a caution, and precautions taken to avoid pushing the dog into a fear bite. it sounds like body signals were ignored. and Joey was pushed too far.
@@thewitchycat4984 I agree
I feel like any aged dog would be terrified to be In that facility. She’s a young beautiful pup and has so much potential. I hope you can find someone that can come out and train her in her home, her happy place, It may be easier for her.
A. That looks like a pound and sounds like one.
B. When you training dogs, especially one that's new to you being bite is a huge possibility. That was absolutely stupid of them.
Are they licensed? And what happened before she bit him? Dogs don't just suddenly bite with no reason. I'm so sorry your family is having to go through this 🌹
Coming from a certified dog trainer who does small group and individual training, that facility is a breeding ground for behavioral problems. It would be very difficult to train a dog like Joey to do the specific things you want from her outside of a farm. I would look into positive reinforcement based personal trainers that will come out to your farm and work with her there. Australian shephards are generally very sensitive dogs that were bred to form close bonds with their shepherd (or in today's case, their family.) So being removed from that situation was probably incredibly stressful for her and I wouldn't blame her for snapping in that moment.
Not to mention no one will ever really know what was done behind the scenes that could have provoked a more aggressive reaction from her! Based on the chaos there it wouldn't surprise me if the were being rough with her.
This is not the way to go about training dogs, it’s not the dogs fault. it was probably scared and overwhelmed as a young dog
That's how I felt
They should have let her stay in the kennel for overnight. That is too many other dogs for an Aussie. Joey is a great dog. My Aussie protected my kids and animals.She is protecting you.
I think they put a pinch collar on your dog and used it wrong or they tried to kick her or hit her.
Think that happened my dog .
@@loveistime8418 why would you assume this ? The situation was not right for Joey but to automatically assume abuse is odd.
@@whitehouseonthehill There are places you can have a trainer come to the property to train your dog. It leaves them far more comfortable and more understanding on how to implement their training in their living environment.
I don’t know how often Joey gets to leave the farm, but I would consider taking her to do something fun - even if it’s just a car ride and a treat. She may start to associate car rides and leaving the farm with the fear from this experience. I had a dog like this and it made vet trips and traveling absolutely awful. It may also be good to see how she reacts to being left with someone who didn’t ride in the car with her and let her see the car leave while getting treats. It should also make it easier for her to feel comfortable at a new training facility when you find it! I know you said you don’t know how to train her, but working on this now will make it easier to have others work with her later. Just keep praising and giving rewards for positive behavior!
Muzzle training is also important and something that you could start on now in case she ever needed to wear one in an emergency or at the vet! Gives you some peace of mind and an option in fearful situations if nothing else!
She is not familiar with other dogs. It was probably a shock.
Well, a good and also a bad idea, Bell (Star well heck she got named of Bell Star one of the Westen followed
I'm SO glad you brought her home. That place is NO place for ANY dog to be. She hated being there. Poor girl. 💕
Thank you for loving her, and not blaming her.
She is absolutely beautiful.
Poor Joey, sounds like she was very frightened and was just protecting herself. 🐕💜
Definitely not your fault and not Joey’s fault. They should have been prepared for a potential situation like that for a dog that isn’t socialized around other dogs and the fact that their place is full of barking, aggressive dogs. Sorry that happened to you guys! That really sucks.
Thanks, Lindsay!
Agreed
@@whitehouseonthehill Joey did nothing wrong. The trainer was in the wrong, from the very beginning. I worked for a Humane Society for 20yrs, training dogs to help them get adopted. Joey is a good dog, but was put in a scary situation, and a stranger to her went to grab her to put her on lead. They have to establish a repour with her first. You don't just yank a dog out of a pen (I don't care if it's outside that noisy kennel), that you don't know it's demeanor. She was put in a highly stressed environment, and the trainer, obliviously didn't have a clue on handling techniques. He's a liar, saying he's never been bitten. I know so many trainers that say this, and it's just a blatant lie. They are trying to deflect blame. The dog reacts to the energy in their environment. If you're hyper, she's hyper, if you're relaxed, she's relaxed. If you're scared, she's scared. They adopt the energy in the environment. They should've done a meet up with you and Joey in a more calm setting first, and established a repour with her. THEN, proceed to try and take her into the kennel. BTW, that kennel is basically a hoarding situation in a metal barn. It's chaotic, stressful, and NOT a good learning atmosphere. I teach obedience classes, but with the owners in control of their dogs. I train them under distraction, because when you need your dog to listen the most, is usually a dangerous situation, like running into the street with cars coming. You HAVE to be able to recall your dog. Teaching in a class setting, teaches the dog to listen while being moderately distracted. That's what makes them listen better. You were NOT in the wrong, and Joey was NOT in the wrong. It is ALWAYS the handler's fault if a dog bites. That's because they didn't read the dog's cues. They will give cues as to what they are feeling. They'll give you body language warnings, because they don't want to bite, but if handled wrong, and the cues not noticed-they can bite. Any handler and trainer should know this and ACCEPT this as rule. Don't blame yourself or Joey for that idiot trainer's bite wounds. He earned them. Trust me. Kiss Joey for me, and tell her she's a good girl!
Wow! What a horrible situation. It's pretty evident, from the sounds of the facility, that is a chaotic situation. I hope you find someone that can give you & Joey the training you're looking for.
While watching this video, my dogs kept coming over to me, not their normal, curious, head tilting attention to sounds but with their ears folded, hunkered down shoulders, tails tucked, and needing comforting. They were scared just hearing that facility on the computer. I'm glad you got your money back, even happier that Joey seems to be unharmed.
Just because Joey isn't being trained to be a police dog, doesn't mean they should've been any less cautious. That part in particular just bugged me. Because it doesn't matter. Any dog can snap and any dog can get stressed.
Truth be told, I worked for a decade as a vet tech and had my fair share of terriers, buff cockers, Chihuahuas and other small breeds act like wolverines.
Awful dreadful untrained biting monsters.
Never the police dogs. Nor Shepherds or Rotts or Mals.
The herding breeds (farm dogs) were high energy skittish and super reactive, which is how most of them are.
As a comparison, Malamutes are freaking DRAMA QUEENS and Beagles are stoic to the point of being hard to diagnose.
Each dog is absolutely an individual, but there are breed traits that influence behavior.
People have no business working with dogs unless they know that very baby basic fact.
That trainer is hot garbage.
@@maggieahrens2817 the question is. Has he used force. Seen trainer who used force to teach dogs sadly to often
I groomed dogs for many years. The fact he lied about not being bitten before is a complete load. Just grooming alone can be like dodging bullets at times. Quick and the dead.
@@maggieahrens2817 I used to say the same. X groomer. The best dogs we had was a pair of Junk yard dogs. Highly trained. Wrong environment any dog can go full Psycho. Loving owners are the worst. They pander to the pooch and well take zero responsibility
@@maggieahrens2817 hi! Can you recomend a breed where the dogs are smart but more on the calm side? I feel like all the smart dogs are high energy too. I had an Australian Shepherd that I adored but she was super high energy and terrible with strangers. Now I have a Border Collie boy that is in many ways is an absolute dream, lower energy level than the AS, super smart and such a good boy, he just has a little problem with being obcessed with sticks and eating socks... But BC usually are even more high energy than AS, we were just blessed.
It’s not your fault. The trainer should have known better. He knew your dog was in an unfamiliar environment. They took careless risks with your dog.
You have a great dog.
Thank you, I appreciate it!
He is the goodest boy
Yeah that's true, he even claimed he has trained for years and even police dogs but he never got the signs that the dog was agitated or what
@@Yeahboii7648 wait is it a boy or a girl
@@collin_9209 idk i just saw dog and didnt pay much attention on the pronouns
I’m sorry for how that “trainer” turned out. Find someone to come to your farm to train you and her in the situations she’s gonna face daily. Joey is obviously a good and loyal dog. Good luck!
You guys did nothing wrong, I’ve had 6 dogs. Enough to know Joey only bit the person because she was stressed and didn’t know what was happening. Joey is a beautiful and sweet dog, you guys are blessed 😊. I hope you can find the right dog training experts to help you out. I’ll be praying for you guys 🙏
A trainer should be cautious with every new dog, doesnt matter if they seem friendly.
Honestly I dont think it's your fault, since it's clear you went there to get training. Especially if you didnt know that your dog was gonna bite.
Also I highly doubt that they havent dealt with a more aggressive behavioural dog.
As well as dogs do get aggressive when when stressed and anxious. It is normally for a dog to try to defend themself when they feel scared.
Even the video of the dogs that are barking in the background. It sounds like some are stressed.
I'd suggest finding a better dog trainer and let them know that your dog does get anxious when her family isnt around, cause it honestly sounds like that.
I thought so, too. Why wouldn't they prepare for her to possibly do that?
Some trainers deal aggressively with dogs to train them. Between the stress of new enviroment and that type of training she may have bit. It may be the way she warns them if she’s scared.
Btw. Dogs should follow not lead. That’s the natural way so if Joey is leading your cart then that’s a sign she thinks she’s in charge ( so I’m told ). Get a good trainer. They will read your dog and most likely wouldn’t push her enough to get her to bite.
Btw after a few weeks with those dogs you will never get her to stop barking. .
@@IlainaM if you're thinking about that "alpha dog" thing, then that isnt true. Its been debunked about alpha roles in dog and wolves.
@@whitehouseonthehill I doubt she'll forget the harrowing experience, not easily. I might expect she'll need time and consoling, especially if or when you hand her to another trainer. The competence of a good trainer should help put her at ease, and so boost her confidence with others then. I think you're right to immediately start training her as much as you can, and from research, until you can build on that with an appropriate trainer :-)
Any trainer knows an untrained, unsocialised dog can be a stressed one. The noise there would stress me out alone, it's like a prison of people screaming & shouting at one another. What a miserable few day's you've had, I'm sorry. I hope you manage to connect with a trainer. Positive reinforcement is the way to go only. Keep your chins up, you'll get through.
I had never imagined that fact! 💯
Exactly. One on one training, the trainer trains the owner/handler, who then trains the dog, not the trainer.
That training facility looks like a nightmare, I bet she felt treated that is the reason she defend herself, if they don’t showed their methods definitely it’s a red flag right there.
I learned to train my dog watching TH-cam videos, reading books, etc. I made a lot of mistakes on the way but it was worth it, you will straighten the bond with your dog the ways that you could not imagine.
She seems like a sweet girl.
BTW I just found your channel, I love it
i'm crying i hope you guys always stay healthy and happy, thank you for posting these videos. also amazing choice of music. don't know how you manage a farm and a channel all at once!
Kennel based programs are never the best, and the people there are usually really strict or even harsh or abusive towards the dogs. Not to mention how they never have good results. Joey was scared in a new and very loud environment, she acted upon fear and not aggression. The trainers were definitely in the wrong, and its blatantly obvious that they aren't actually successful in their training abilities.
It sounds like she was very stressed and they as trainers should know that. Aussies are very emotional dogs and they should have been prepared. I worked in a boarding, training place and we were all ready for the unexpected. I would recommend taking her through a class that is a group class so she can be socialized while you are there. The benefit to that is that you all learn together. Don’t be hard on yourself or her, we all see the type of dog she is and the type of owner you are.
Exactly you have to read a dog as a professional they should know
My god yes, i couldn't stand to listen to that no more than 3 mins. Report them, seems like a chop shop for dogs and there getting away with it. Speak up for those who cant speak for themselves.
You said it yourself, Why weren't they prepared." Your assessment is absolutely correct.
PS: Check out Cesar Milan
Joey: Yes I bit him, all the time I heard the noise of barking dogs, it made me so nervous and as you can see my plan worked, I'm back home. You're not mad at me, I'm a good girl, don't you😌
I have heard too many awful stories about these kinds of training facilities! Why work with animals if you don't understand or have compassion for them?
Preach
Money, of course.
Never send your dog away for basic obedience training. Specialized training, sure. Basic obedience and similar training should always be done by the owners with the assistance of a professional trainer. I always suggest doing group obedience classes because it helps socialize the dog with unfamiliar places, people, and other dogs, with the familiarity of the owner as the handler and learning to work and focus through distractions. Good luck! Owner guided training is critical... it strengthens the family bond, teaching the owners the nuanced parts of your dog's personality while allowing the dog to learn how to cope with unfamiliar situations 🐕
Coming from a family who has trained dogs for 3 [human] generations!
Amen and amen!! PERSONALLY working with your dog BUILDS RELATIONSHIP and RESPONSIBILITY for ALL INVOLVED!!
So sorry that happened, I don't blame joey all those dogs barking would scare me to death
Sorry to see your dog Joey and your family went through this. Wish you luck in finding someone who is an experienced professional and one on one training is probably the best for Joey and for your peace of mind.
Australian Shepherds are extremely "owner devoted" and "stranger nervous" often especially when not with the owner. I don't know why they would not have been cautious with her breed and tried to keep things calm AND tread VERY lightly when you left! I'm a former pro-home cleaning agent and I learned that on the job over the years. Guess you have to CARE enough to pay attention. That place was not the kind of place creating a culture of CARE. So they weren't CARE-FUL. Do not totally blame yourselves here my YT friends!🥰💞🐕
Well said
Thank you! I was looking for a comment about her breed. We had a dog that was only a fourth Australian shepherd and he would have lost it there. I don't get how you can agree to train a dog and NOT do research about the breed!? Our dog bit someone once too but in your case we told the dude repeatedly not to touch him because 1. he doesn't like strangers and 2. he especially didn't like him! He lived to be a very old doggy man and never bit anybody else.
As an owner of Australian Shepherd I can verify that they are high alert dogs and wary of strangers. That’s why Joey barks a lot. It’s part of the breed. They make the best dogs and are very sweet with family and kids.
@@heatherhobbs5250 as an owner of 5 aussies and Craussies, I agree with your statement
@@cheyennes7681 good warning and good story. Hey I had Aussies that loved me and i still got bit if i went too far. These dogs bite. They usually dont bite if not provoked somehow. They're too good for that.
I worked at a boarding facility, not training, and you get dogs who can be completely different with their owners but most of the time it was just stress of being in a different environment. I'm sorry to hear about the pup! Hopefully she can get her confidence back and will be a good farm dog for you and your family!
She a little over-aggressive since coming back. Hopefully she'll settle back in.
@@whitehouseonthehill she might just think that you'll leave her again, but what I've seen after awhile they get better, but some don't like my dog. I would also do in person training so you learn and she gets trained ant the same time and she how she reacts around you.
@@whitehouseonthehill So sad. Clearly she was traumatized. Please don't give up on her. The fear and confusion she must have felt. That place scared me. What kind of training facility has a warehouse full of out of control barking dogs? Sounds like they were ALL terrified and Joey sensed it.
Joey (and your family) will likely need a visit with a Certified Behaviorist as opposed to trainer because of the experience she had and the bite - a trained professional will get to the base behavioral cause(es) of what happened and why.
@@whitehouseonthehill I've read every comment on this page. I rented a place that had a boarding facility on it that the owner's also operated. Is there anywhere in your contract that you gave the facility permission to use a shock collar on your dog? Just saying. If she were my dog, I'd check her thoroughly. I truly believe someone is NOT BEING TRUTHFUL regarding this incident. Glad Joey's back home with you and she can gain back the trust she once had. Best wishes to you and your human and animal family. ❤
I typed a lot but it disappeared. I’m sending a book. It’s really great for beginning basic obedience. I raise toy schnauzers. I deal with lots of people that need Training.
I’ve watched you guys since day one!
I now have many different breeds of chickens some ducks and rabbits. 🤦♀️
My name is Cricket Stastny.
Joey is a good dog!!! They are idiots… anybody that knows anything about dog behaviors, body posturing , facial movement… dog language, they would know she was upset. I’m so sorry you had to go through that. And I’m sorry Joey had to go through that. Dogs are my life. That was a crazy place! Be looking for the book!
Thanks for your videos! I love them all! Only thing is I watch sometimes till the wee hours in the morning. I love your family. Hi to everybody!!!
I’m actually glad she got out of that place early! How scary 🥺 Not glad someone got bit, but definitely not Joey’s fault!
In my opinion she was in an situation where she didn’t feel safe and if she doesn’t feel safe shes going to protect herself.
Run the cameras back!
@@aprylakakadance8085 I completely agree!!! Something seems off about the trainer. Dogs have a good sense of character!
Guys, in Joey's mind this was a fight or flight situation. She was afraid and a bite (if she did) was the only way she knew to handle it. I don't think she would have bitten at all if it hadn't been for all the noise, the strange man trying to handle her and you leaving her there. That's also the reason for all the love you got. My dog did that every time I came home from anywhere. 💚
This breaks my heart for both you and Joey. Keep your head up! You know yourself and your dog. Best thoughts.
Wow a month? That seems strange. My dog went to training for 4 hours a day for 7 days, then me with the dog 2 hours a day for 7 more days. A whole month seems a bit strange and they SOUND overwhelmed with all that noise. You are right, that place sounds TERRIFYING.
I was able to sleuth out the kennel, and their training program does not seem to be designed for your needs or breed. They definitely are skillful, based on the awards they display, but that only covers one type of dog for one type of job.
Hunting dogs, guardian dogs, and herders have very different mentalities, and even within those you get a lot of differences by breed. A breed or role specific trainer would probably have the best results for you.
As for the general discipline training that you need to accomplish to cure the jumping and the other small issues, consistency is key and small steps lead to big changes. You have all the skills you need to train yourselves to lead Joey.
That many bites that badly? She was defending herself against something. I'm sad with you. He sounds like a jerk in the clip.
Fr
He did sound like a jerk and that was bull crap
Maybe ask to view his video footage!
I feel dogs can sense something about people, they see and smell things humans do not. Maybe that is what happened here. we also didn't see the interaction between person bit and the dog, so there's that too. It's not good this happened, of course, but there's more than just 'she bite me'. Yes, but why?
I watched the first few minutes but couldn’t continue. I love animals so much that I could see in your face that I couldn’t watch what you went through. So sorry this happened.
So sorry you and Joey went through that! She is a good dog. Hope you find the right fit for her training sequence. Hugs
Was about to take a shower but this is more important
For Real
I was about to also.!
Literally same with me 😂
You don't know what provoked that don't always blame the dog. You need to be involved in the training.
Damm right!
I call B.S. on the whole thing. How many times did Caesar get bitten on his show? He knew it was going to happen and it did. They are in the wrong in some way. And please don't be embarrassed. Joey was sent there for training. To teach her how to behave. Many dogs have aggression issues ( not that Joey does) that get sent there. Like I said: B.S. if they never saw that before!!
Sure seemed that way.
Yeah I agree. I did dog training for a few years and I got nipped a few times
Yes Victoria and Cesar's method I have mixed when I trained my dogs
@@whitehouseonthehill
They were gaslighting you, friend. A "professional" got themselves bit, but it's *your* fault somehow?
And they have NEVER had a bite? Ever?
Lies. Red flags for days, and lies.
Especially if they're training police dogs.
Pads slip, or dogs get overly excited for "the biting game" and things happen.
For the record, it's a whole lot harder to get a solid recall from a coonhound than it is to get a Malinator to bite on command...
so their bar is stupid low.
I saw another comment from a professional trainer offering to network someone with you; please do consider taking them up on it.
Might even be the way to have a trainer come to your farm for sessions - less stress for everyone, including your pup.
Best wishes man
@@maggieahrens2817 Well said I agree completely.
My pitbull went to training classes and he's only bitten his treats, he wasn't even neutered at the time. Go to trainers who you teach YOU AND the dog at the same exact time
Any 'training' facility' that sounds like that is not a good place, I would 100% recommend one on one training, this way you learn while joey learns, you will also be the one handling her while being directed, any dog training is also 99% owners being trained too not just the dog, you'd both learn and progress together, my 10 month old sprollie loves watching your channel 🤗
This is not your fault. The trainer was in the wrong. She was most likely overestimulated.
Definitely. SO MUCH BARKING!
I was over stimulated just listening to it.
This pup needs a farm dog trainer to come out work with her & work with the humans she's used too.
I feel that you guys should probably have an experienced trainer come to the farm. Someone that is super knowledgable with herding breed/farm dogs . Joey will be in her element thus making it more comfortable for her and the person training her. Much love ❤
Also, maybe the last 15 or so of training she/he can bring mom, dad, and your beautiful children in to work as a family with some basic behavior training. Much love ❤
I agree. She needs to be trained to your farm situation, at your farm.
I don't agree. Your dog doesn't have so many problems that you need private training. Take her to some group lessons and learn how to make corrections and encourage good behavior with praise and play. With just a basic group class you can learn the techniques to take her to sheep herding competitions if that's what you want. Besides, in group lessons they learn from the other dogs. If all the people say sit and the other dogs sit, maybe I should sit too! Group lessons will also teach her how to act around other dogs, as you will have to take her to the vet or maybe friends with dogs. There no reason to spend the money for private lessons. She already has guardian dog instincts. You just need to hone them and group lessons will teach you those skills. Sending lots of love 💖 from sunny 🌞 Arizona 🌵😷
So far from reading the comment of others and watching, the best thing about this facility was that they gave you your check back. They would be even less accredited if they hadn't done that.
What an incredibly honest and vulnerable conversation to share with your viewers. That was an intimidating situation for any person or animal to be in. There is no way anyone that works with animals day in and out doesn’t have to deal with aggression and fear. I trained horses for 20+ years and they aren’t saints.
Maybe you need to get her trained in a “family “ dog obedience school where they train you and the dog. I don’t believe in their methods of training. I have 30 years of experience in training for both breed and obedience.
When I was training my current service dog I used a training school to basically assist with social skills and preparing him to pass his canine good citizenship test. There were people there with 3-year old children learning how to handle the family pet and others that were training their dogs for the show ring and also sheep herding competition and for working on the family farms
Can your dog pass the hotdog test? Mine can!
Personally I'd go with a smaller training facility. That scale just sounds overwhelming for any dog. All of those dogs sound stressed and it's hard for a dog to decompress with that much anxiety that each one is subject to. It sounds crowded, dogs at animal shelters often the sweetest in nature have the ability to shut down. A facility with all of that is too much for any type of dog.
Hunting dogs and police dogs tend to be raised and trained together and well socialized usually as well. That facility might be fine for those types of dogs, but not a farm dog. Also it kinda sounds like they put Joey in the same category as those dogs when she just isn't. I'm not okay with the barking, but that was a hound in the video which was the only other dog I saw and hounds barking isn't unusual behavior. I'd need to actually go there to pass further judgement.
I'm sorry for what yall and your dog has gone through. Just sitting here watching this my own Coonhound looked at me scared hearing all of the barking from that place. We have our small homestead in Alaska with our 2 dogs. Your dog is a good girl
I read some of the comments and im so pleased at the comments from vet n experienced people these dogs do need training their super intelligent high energy super emotional im proud of your reaction it was a definite gut feeling you got and I believe a correct feeling that lil girl is amazing 👏
It’s odd that they just continually wanted to tell you about their “experiences and accomplishments”. She’s a working breed and can be finicky- I have a heeler and he’s a lover and a fighter (especially in new places/ new people). You can tell she’s loved and cared for. Sorry this happened ❤️
Damn, I'm sorry that happened to you guys. I used to have an Australian Shepherd as a kid and was improperly trained by the place we got him from and thus became a bit aggressive due to fear. He bit my brother and grandmother, but they never blamed him.
I find it odd the guy said he's been doing this for 10 years and never gotten bit. And yeah, why the hell weren't they prepared? You're gonna have to expect that a dog may bite for any reason. Youre TRAINING them for God sake.
It's nobody's fault but the humans. Hope you find a better place to train her. I don't see it as your fault at all or your dog's. They should have expected it.
I appreciate the comment. Hoping to find a better trainer that can help us train Joey together.
@@whitehouseonthehill she's a very beautiful dog, by the way! She's so lucky to live on a farm and be with y'all
Poor Joey was terrified. Aussies are extremely smart and sensitive. I would highly recommend having someone come to your farm where Joey is most comfortable. She’s such a sweet dog living her best life. Definitely the trainers fault. I noticed Joey gave you a dog hug when she got home. That’s when a dog wraps their head around your neck or rests it on your shoulder. It’s the best! Good luck with training!
I feel so sorry for Joey and for you guys to have that experience. I have been a dog trainer, worked in an animal shelter, and vet clinic for many years and that is not how animals should be treated. She was very overwhelmed and scared of that environment, they should have been going very slow with her. I would even think they would do an evaluation on her before even bringing her onto the program to ensure it was the right fit for her. Joey seems like a very sweet and smart dog. I would recommend finding a trainer who does positive reinforcement any good trainer is going to be able to read the dogs body language. Good Luck! She will do great once you guys find the right trainer❤.
It seems like this training facility and the trainer was not super experienced on dog body language! Dogs don’t just bite unexpectedly, meaning they were not fully educated on how to properly read behavior. The environment seems to be very stressful for a dog. I would definitely recommend finding a new trainer who knows dog behavior🥰
Facts
I feel the same and I understand dog body language really well
I have to disagree somewhat on this. Under normal circumstances. But ive come across at least 3 dogs in my past experience with grooming and working along side a kennel. One Retriever in a split second went from fine and dandy to nearly ripping a persons hand through cage. Not a sign of aggression in the prior visits to the kennel in fact a super friendly dog. One particular dog with major issues. Was a come hither dog. Would wag the tail and look all sweet till the hand was in chomping range. We knew all about the Nut bag. Had a real bad attitude and the family never dealt with it just kept making it worse. Was abused and abusive. Cocker. One Shepherd earlier in my Grooming days. Not a bad dog at all Just bent down one day and found his teeth across my nose. Never did a thing again after that either.
If we were handed over to people at a place we didn’t know we would of been the same. Never heard of a place like this in the uk. Police dogs are trained by police offers here. Training for dogs are done in a class with owners. Maybe look for someone to come to you? That way you could all be involved & she’s feels safe. She’s an absolutely beautiful dog & I’m absolutely shocked.
100% find a trainer that come to u and train with u it is the as much training u as the dog alot less stressful on the dog and easier because the dog is not scared
I’m pretty sure police k-9 are trained by police here. Or are at least trained by trainers who only train police or military and police k-9. Most trainers who train police k-9 aren’t training dogs in this kind of environment. A lot of police departments get their dogs already trained from places like Germany (I’ve heard a lot of k-9 officers using German commands because that’s what their dog understands). K-9 officers train right alongside their k-9 partner because they have to build that trust bond and the dog has to learn to listen to their handler when they’re on the job. Pretty sure this facility isn’t training police k-9 and if that was the wording they used it’s a lie.
Most dog training I’ve seen, the trainer works with both dog and owner. Not usually a “drop your dog off and go run some errands and they’ll be trained when you get back”, this place sounds beyond shady. They should find a dog trainer that will come to them, who has experience working with farm dogs, and is able to read the dog. They need to be able to have Joey listen to them and so they need to be trained as well. Sending her off somewhere to be trained is doubly stressful if they are not with her. Even training done a big chain pet stores are working with both owner and dog.
For someone who has never owned a dog before she seems like a pretty all together and well rounded dog!. With the right training from the right people she will be amazing!. I love her colour and eyes too 😍😍 💕
She is so loved and she just loves all of you! She was in an environment that she didn't feel safe and she was scared so it wasn't your fault or her fault! 😊
Its totally not your fault.100%. Period...
Dont even feel bad for it. Joey is the best. She was just protecting herself from a scary environment as we all do.
And I love that you have your full trust on her.
Totally agree...
If their "trainer" has never been bit, somethings wrong.. I'm a dog groomer and when I was 16 I starting as a dog bather. Bathing dogs. I got bit twice within my first year. Dogs are unpredictable and you have to always be ready. Something seemed very sketchy about that place especially with the owner/trainers trying to put blame on you guys. 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
HAHA yea just been leaving similar comments. Ex Dog groomer. You learn to be quick.
They were hacks! I stopped my dog from jumping on me from watching videos. But if they were real trainers they would've known better. You are a very kind person because I would have checked him well!
As a person who is taking a dog through obedience this sickens me. Trainers should know dogs in a new environments can act out. None of those dogs have been trained to be calm in a room with other dogs. This trainer is clearly not knowledgeable about the nature of dogs. Joey seems like a super friendly dog and in my opinion she bit the trainer because she felt threatened. Watch out for that "training facility."
If indeed she actually bit anyone at all.
Incredibly messed up how they treated Joey and even more so unprofessional to blame her in this situation 😒 they clearly just refused to admit they messed up
Seemed that way to me too
She is such a good dog and I can’t believe that they would just blame you! I think you guys should train her on your own. Good luck!
You guys aren't wrong in anyway..they should have been prepared and she was definitely just scared for her life ..I think she's a great dog as she protects you and your animals and family that's what's important
Not trying to make you feel worse but the mistake you made was leaving her there. There are all kinds of trainers. Doesn’t mean they are any good. Keep her home where she is safe. If you absolutely must have her “trained “ have someone come to your farm and work with you and her under your supervision! That’s for Joey’s protection!
It's an occupational hazard on their part.
Wow, that place sounds super stressful. Just listen to all the dogs barking in frustration! And shepherd dogs like Joey are super sensitive and easily stressed, no wonder she wanted to defend herself! Find a trainer who works with positive reinforcement and at your place, WITH YOU. Its YOU and your family that need to train WITH her.
I am sorry this happened to you and Joey. With just the sounds of that place as you drove up to walk in, I would have turned right around. What a stressful and scary place! And yes, I have trained dogs, cats, horses, sheep and even chickens that worked in a few productions in Hollywoodland. That place scared ME! I pray you can find someone to come train you and Joey AT the farm and then away from there for further socialization in public with strange situations. Blessings to you all!
If she’s not around other dogs or people, i think that walking her around where there’s other dogs and people will help socialize her and get her used to the rest of the world outside the farm.
It’s crazy that the trainers don’t know how to read body language. While Joey is great around you guys, she does look nervous/a bit fearful around new people that she doesn’t know, which is understandable especially for an Aussie. It’s in their nature to be hesitant and protective of themselves and their family. The fact that they had her in that crazy of an environment and couldn’t see she was stressed baffles me. I’m so glad you picked her up and are taking her back home. Hopefully you can find someone better to help desensitize her and train her!
I said baffled way too many times in the video - but I was extremely baffled by it all!
@@whitehouseonthehill I’m baffled too (it’s a great word). As a service dog handler, body language is key because it tells us if the dog is comfortable, or needs more training in a specific situation to become comfortable. It’s no different with training a pet dog.
Absolutely. Agree.
This was a terrible experience. Sorry you had to go through that. ☹
We had never had a dog before and got a german shepherd/heeler cross last February. We used the "How to Train a Dream dog" online training and it has worked really well. You are very capable of training Joey yourselves. It just takes time and perseverance, just like farm life.
It is their fault! You are paying them for a service, they are supposed to be professionals. They should be able to deal with any situation!
I was hoping so
Did you see the bite marks? Your dog was left there, she didn't know what was what. Those dogs there are very stressed sounding. She heard all those dogs complaining. She was scared. Blaming you makes it easier to explain their incompetence.
I saw a picture of the bites. But I was stressed just being there, I thought for sure they would know how to handle new dogs that come through there.
If you were stressed being there, why would you leave your dog there?
You are responsible for her, you put her in a position where she had no option but to bite.
Whats going on in her mind... Thank goodness you came back, that place was crazy!
My heart breaks for you n her... don't give up
A livestock guardian dog like Joey will always become nervous when they leave the farm. That also was more a boarding facility than a training facility.
In my opinion Joey needs one on one training.
You could perhaps do it yourself... You could even become a member of the Victoria Stilwell membership where she teaches you how to train your dog 🐕.
Herding dogs are different from livestock guardian dogs and they can be very fearful dogs of change and they have a higher tendency to bite out of fear she needs basic training and herding training not guardian training guardian training is a lot different and based more on instincts. Board and train has a place when done correctly such as hunting dogs search and rescue scent training and bite work training. For herding dogs though this is really not the environment for them plus they need time to decompress before being worked with
the moment, THE MOMENT, after you asked why they weren't prepared, and he deflected!!! I felt like this wasn't real. that joey couldn't be that aggressive unless something happened. I wasn't there, I dunno though.
I couldn’t leave my Rottweilers in place like that. They are family dogs just as Joey is. Take the time and train her yourselves or get someone to come out to the farm and help you train her. She’s your furkid love her for herself. 🥰
You should take Joey to a OLK9 trainer. ( Off-Leash-K9 ) My neighbor works with all sorts of dogs, and he loves his job! They train the dogs so well and are treated wonderfully!
Sorry about the situation. From just watching Joey so far she seemed to be great around your family and other people. That "training" facility was loud. I don't think I have heard that much noise around a dog shelter. Something was frightening her and she was in a bad place. I would go with an individual dog trainer and get recommendations from other trusted sources. Wow a double bad day.