Absolutely agree, I don't understand why so many techs feel like a complete overhaul is ALWAYS the way to go. Only the best among them can recognize that you build on top of an existing design thats as good as these home owners had. I can imagine that sales pitch though 'if we keep any of the old system, we'd be compromising your investment' - no you wouldn't but your prefab guy wouldn't be pulling his weight would he?
Just got my Gas License in Ontario and didnt learn boilers too much and going into the plumbing trade. Definitely learned a lot from this video, work was absolutely clean and is a standard to achieve for me. Thanks! Superb work!
I'm glad you were able to learn a lot from our video, and thanks for the compliment!! Boilers are their own beast haha but hopefully you'll get a chance to work on some in the field. Congrats on getting your gas license and best of luck to you in your career field!
@@colin4685 just goes to show licensed does not mean qualified. I can get a license for anything but that doesn't mean i can ir should be working on it. There is more to learn past getting a license before you should be working on stuff. I have seen some unlicensed people who know more and can do a better job than a licensed quote unquote professional.
This was an exact replacement for the old one that lasted about 10 years. th-cam.com/users/postUgkx7yWIKcrbA9KMHkGSfcgxW2lsjHT6B8Sh The top of my mitigation tube by my roofline was just a 90 elbow which allowed too much debris to fall down into the fan, eventually ruining it. Without this issue, I bet it would have kept running another 10 years. When I replaced this fan, I added an extra elbow joint so the top tube now it does a 180, which should solve that problem. The radon guys around here wanted to charge me a $300 diagnostic fee, then parts/labor (probably close to $600 total). I installed this all by myself in about an hour for the cost of the fan; it would probably be even easier/faster with two people. FYI the manufacturer's warranty greatly differs depending on whether you install it yourself (1 yr warranty) or have a licensed installer do it (10 yrs).
If your tech is concerned about pinholes in copper from remnant flux, he should also start deburring his cuts. Water turbulence can erode the pipe quicker than the flux can. And a water softener does not deionize water, it only removes the minerals that make the water hard.
I too want to make the similar comment. The flux on the copper is the least of your concern unless they are from the 60s acid flux. Modern flux has no such problem. Those crimped copper fitting are unobtainium for DIY but you sure pay for them having a hydronic system installed by the "pros". I have well water and the last thing I want to do is to add chemicals to soften my good tasting water. Everything has tradeoffs. I spotted they didn't bother to debur the pipe after cutting it with the fancy cutter also.
Also not to nitpick but your mechanic claimed the water softner deionized the water. It does not. It performs an ion exchange, TDS remains constant. Caleffi does indeed produce a mixed resin bed unit that will actually deionize the water in the boiler.
I have never used an expansion tank mount like that. I see you have an isolation valve on the expansion tank but no way to release the captive water pressure in the tank before checking the air pressure in the bladder. Does this mount have something built in to isolate and drain?
Hey Louie, glad to see you found our TH-cam channel! I'm glad you liked this vid and I hope you're enjoying our other content too! Thanks so much for your continued support, it's always a treat to read your comments on here and on Insta :)
RIP OFF = my thoughts exactly! Notice how they didn't show the "leak". It could have been a simple maintenance issue (I work on HTP boilers... easy to fix). They tossed out a lot of good copper, ALL of the zone pumps (I bet they kept those!). What a waste. Quite a bit of salesmanship indeed.
A low loss header will make this system more effecient and stop back circulation. You should always use low loss headers when you have multiple pumped zones
We have a combo at the house every time it demands domestic hot water it stops the hot water to go to the zones and it only goes to the hot water domestic hot water why The plumber can’t even figure it out they’re all the same they do everything the same way. so now we use a boiler mate which is hooked up to one of the zones which heats the coil that heats up my hot water and I don’t even use the domestic hot water in the boiler and that works fine
It’s different for each install it depends on how much material is needed or whether you go pre fab or fab on site. There’s a lot of variations that go into an estimate before a sale is made. I used to be an estimator for a company the price of unit is always the same depending on model and size but it’s the materials that will make it more or less in the ends as well as labor.
It's really the skill and knowledge of the Team of installers. Contractor quoting me a lot more than others and mentioned quality of workmanship in our 1 hour meeting at least 3times.
@@Addarios I appreciate your effort to help with the explanation it helped us to see the ballpark values of such projects , we do understand that cost change depend on size of the house as well, one more general question , now as I know most these Boiler system runs on Oil , is there any way that later in future we can upgrade these system to run on Solar Power ? or there is no way that this system can be upgrade or support to work with Solar power , in that case later if we want to power by solar power do we need to redo all and buy new equipment's ?
@@johnnyjax6444 So actually most of these boilers I've seen in the Mass area have run off of natural gas, rather than oil. I haven't seen anything about linking solar panels to these, and to be honest that's not really something our company has much experience in. You could run this system off of electricity, but if you're heating the whole home vs just your hot water then it may be more efficient (and more reliable) to just use gas. If you're set on pursuing solar power for your home, you might want to look into Mitsubishi Mini Splits since they are specifically designed to run off of electricity. Also, since their installation already requires an electrician, it may be cheaper and easier to have the solar panels connected to the mini splits since they'll already be there for the job. Bear in mind, I'm really not qualified to make suggestions on solar panels but hopefully that gives you some direction in your search for the answer!
Sorry but pro press doesn’t last as long as a solder joint. I am seeing corrosion at pro press joints in under ten years. O rings wont last on a primary/secondary heat loop with high temps. I didn’t see the installer deburr pipe or clean it before he pressed it either.
Get a job in the field but some basic tools and get after it! Learning on the job is much better then going to school because school doesn’t teach you real life scenarios like the trade will in the field and also don’t give up you’ll start from the bottom but you will go up from there!
Read comments below. What type of water shortens a system like this. Treat my well water with Calcite and Corosex 10%, and water softener. Have a ph of 6.8 plus. Anyone know ? Maybe that's why this system is being replaced. If a HE unit is used, was told to have a good service plan in place.
You guys did excellent work your vents your exhaust and your intake is at the wrong place because it says in the book that you have to be at least 3 feet from any opening which you have a window right above that. Now as your water softener as I live in the northern part of Maine all my life they only work to a certain point and they gotta be serviced now and then and your boiler Has’s to be serviced at the same time that’s what I’ve learned. now the boiler you are using which I’ve had a lot of complaints on it why I have no idea and their service is not that great is the heat exchanger still copper if it is they’re still gonna have a problem with it. This time around I bought a western house that has a stainless steel heat exchanger in it I’ve had it for a couple years and working fine but I have to have it serviced every fall like everything else the water softener that we’ve got is not that great either and the one that we had before that wasn’t any better the people that sold us that water softeners in the past they’re all the same they only work to a certain point they will never take out all the stuff out of your water but that’s my opinion no one else
I wonder how quick these customers called back I feel bad for them. That exhaust pipe goes down then back up. The product of high efficiency combustion is water. Once the pipe fills with water no more heat for them
Here in Germany, specificaly in Hamburg i've seen natiral gas fired so called wall ovens (Wandofen), that have their intake and exhaust in one double walled pipe right underneath the windows. But i dont know the laws in the USA.
If it is a two pipe system only 1 foot of clearance is needed from a window. If you choose to do a 1 pipe then it must be 4 feet. Obviously this is because when you draw inside air you create a negative pressure inside the home as with 2 pipe systems you do not.
That left over flux will not cause a pin hole. Unfortunately some professionals really know how to scare ppl and some ppl will believe everything they say $$
I’ve been working as a refrigeration mechanic in Ontario Canada for over 25 years in the last five years I have been doing a lot of These wall hung hi efficiency lo mass boilers, yes I generally find it’s not brand specific but most of the problems with these units are installation related I’ve changed over 20 boiler’s under five years old they have been installed from The largest companies around here to the smallest you really need to know what you’re doing above and beyond reading the installation manual, No primary secondary piping, magnets installed on a system that is all copper pipes and copper baseboards with no cast-iron even the circulator was bronze what’s a magnet gonna do it’s an absolute joke a lot of these guys in my area Are coming out of Niagara skilled trades academy we refer to them as GAS dummies they have a gas license but couldn’t throw a piece of pipe if their life depended on it
zone pumps sitting on top of the primary look awful close to the primary tees looks more designed for ease of assembly than functionality also the mag trap on the supply side is like playing baseball with your glove on backwards
That guy explaining the press vs. solder didn’t sound to confident in what he was saying. I bet in the back of his mind he was thinking about how much fun it would be to sweat that system jn
you shouldnt finish your vent pipes lower then you starts lmao those pipes are going to condensate and instead of that condensation running back to the boiler and through the drain on the boiler its gonna sit in the lowest part of that pipe. you went through a stud too thats scuffed
Hi Jeff, we started as a plumbing company but have since branched into all types of HVAC work, electrical, and drain cleaning. That being said, all the Service Experts in this video are primarily plumbers.
lousy explanation,the plumbing part is well designed and connected. But what is the purpose of the music and the opinion of the home owners like...they know! That's only my opinion ......
"That will eventually turn into a pin hole" but yet you are replacing the boiler and no pin hole. Those rubbers will never last longer than a proper solder joint.
You Americans really don’t care about efficiency when it comes to heating. Unless that’s a hotel way to many pumps and overall a rubbish boiler I work on them sometimes over in England.
That is a great installation. Major kudos to the tech he did that work.
That home owner wasted a lot of money on that prefab when they already had the pipe work in.
Absolutely agree, I don't understand why so many techs feel like a complete overhaul is ALWAYS the way to go. Only the best among them can recognize that you build on top of an existing design thats as good as these home owners had. I can imagine that sales pitch though 'if we keep any of the old system, we'd be compromising your investment' - no you wouldn't but your prefab guy wouldn't be pulling his weight would he?
that system looked brand new to me , I would have a cow if it had to be replaced with all the pipes and pumps
For a 3 years Furnance Ac guy like me. Boiler air handler water line still looks like maze to me. Hopefully i will understand it soon. Nice video!
Just got my Gas License in Ontario and didnt learn boilers too much and going into the plumbing trade. Definitely learned a lot from this video, work was absolutely clean and is a standard to achieve for me. Thanks! Superb work!
That's a real shame because I had the same experience from HiMark in Toronto.
@@tranceaddiction I did mine from HiMark in Ottawa haha
I'm glad you were able to learn a lot from our video, and thanks for the compliment!! Boilers are their own beast haha but hopefully you'll get a chance to work on some in the field. Congrats on getting your gas license and best of luck to you in your career field!
You got your gas licence and didnt learn boilers? What the hell did u learn then?
@@colin4685 just goes to show licensed does not mean qualified. I can get a license for anything but that doesn't mean i can ir should be working on it. There is more to learn past getting a license before you should be working on stuff.
I have seen some unlicensed people who know more and can do a better job than a licensed quote unquote professional.
I was just about ask about that..(pressing vs soldering on a system like this) thanks for the heads up.
Glad to help :)
This was an exact replacement for the old one that lasted about 10 years. th-cam.com/users/postUgkx7yWIKcrbA9KMHkGSfcgxW2lsjHT6B8Sh The top of my mitigation tube by my roofline was just a 90 elbow which allowed too much debris to fall down into the fan, eventually ruining it. Without this issue, I bet it would have kept running another 10 years. When I replaced this fan, I added an extra elbow joint so the top tube now it does a 180, which should solve that problem. The radon guys around here wanted to charge me a $300 diagnostic fee, then parts/labor (probably close to $600 total). I installed this all by myself in about an hour for the cost of the fan; it would probably be even easier/faster with two people. FYI the manufacturer's warranty greatly differs depending on whether you install it yourself (1 yr warranty) or have a licensed installer do it (10 yrs).
If your tech is concerned about pinholes in copper from remnant flux, he should also start deburring his cuts. Water turbulence can erode the pipe quicker than the flux can. And a water softener does not deionize water, it only removes the minerals that make the water hard.
Lmao ..you beat me to it ....37 yr tech....and that compression tools sucks
I too want to make the similar comment. The flux on the copper is the least of your concern unless they are from the 60s acid flux. Modern flux has no such problem. Those crimped copper fitting are unobtainium for DIY but you sure pay for them having a hydronic system installed by the "pros". I have well water and the last thing I want to do is to add chemicals to soften my good tasting water. Everything has tradeoffs. I spotted they didn't bother to debur the pipe after cutting it with the fancy cutter also.
Nice clean job
You got taken to the cleaners
Also not to nitpick but your mechanic claimed the water softner deionized the water. It does not. It performs an ion exchange, TDS remains constant. Caleffi does indeed produce a mixed resin bed unit that will actually deionize the water in the boiler.
Thank you 😎 🤟
I have never used an expansion tank mount like that. I see you have an isolation valve on the expansion tank but no way to release the captive water pressure in the tank before checking the air pressure in the bladder. Does this mount have something built in to isolate and drain?
Amazing work, great channel
Hey Louie, glad to see you found our TH-cam channel! I'm glad you liked this vid and I hope you're enjoying our other content too! Thanks so much for your continued support, it's always a treat to read your comments on here and on Insta :)
That’s beautiful work guys.
I love it
So will that act as a tankless water heater would?
Milked them for an entire new system, wow, that’s a sales guys..
Nobody forced their hand to sign on the dotted line
RIP OFF = my thoughts exactly! Notice how they didn't show the "leak". It could have been a simple maintenance issue (I work on HTP boilers... easy to fix). They tossed out a lot of good copper, ALL of the zone pumps (I bet they kept those!). What a waste. Quite a bit of salesmanship indeed.
The lingo salesman use give you no choice mentally. They go to school for sales and how to direct customers over the cliff @@Justwaterheaters
Do you chamfer and ream pipe ends for pro press joints? I didn’t see if you did.
Didn't look like it. Also cut through a wall stud for the venting.
@@roberthegedus5022 yeah, what was up with cutting the stud? could've moved over to avoid that. hackery. 👎
They're hacks
Cringe-worthy hacks indeed. But at least they wiped their feet (sarcasm).
A low loss header will make this system more effecient and stop back circulation. You should always use low loss headers when you have multiple pumped zones
How come you didn't install a manifold under the boiler? Just curious.
I'm from the UK, do you not need a designated cold supply off the mains water for drinking etc? Or is the water there not acceptable to drink?
You're supposed to have a backflow preventer on the line supplying the boiler.
If I was the home owner I would have went with a combi unit and gotten ride if that tank, did they get that option?
The tank turns up the efficiency
@@Baerschi100 I can’t believe we can no longer vent in cvpc they want that central thurm pipe now
We have a combo at the house every time it demands domestic hot water it stops the hot water to go to the zones and it only goes to the hot water domestic hot water why The plumber can’t even figure it out they’re all the same they do everything the same way. so now we use a boiler mate which is hooked up to one of the zones which heats the coil that heats up my hot water and I don’t even use the domestic hot water in the boiler and that works fine
@@paul06062 if u have a taco zone board and it has priority switch, that's what it sounds like
total on that??
It’s different for each install it depends on how much material is needed or whether you go pre fab or fab on site. There’s a lot of variations that go into an estimate before a sale is made. I used to be an estimator for a company the price of unit is always the same depending on model and size but it’s the materials that will make it more or less in the ends as well as labor.
@@northeastanglerstv1632 sure but I’m asking for this one.
I installed a Rinnai here at my house and had nothing but trouble since year 4 it's now 8 yrs old
I have a Rinnai boiler for heat and Rinnai tankless for DHW. Both running solid with no issues for 10 years now.
It's really the skill and knowledge of the Team of installers. Contractor quoting me a lot more than others
and mentioned quality of workmanship in our 1 hour meeting at least 3times.
Nice work 👍🏻
Thank you! Cheers!
How much a system like this cost for a 3unit/ mulit family 9bed 3bath units ?
How much would two combi systems be? In a multi family rough. Rough price
Was this a natural gas or propane system?
Why cut the stud?
it would be helpful if you can list some prices of installing such system
@@Addarios I appreciate your effort to help with the explanation it helped us to see the ballpark values of such projects , we do understand that cost change depend on size of the house as well, one more general question , now as I know most these Boiler system runs on Oil , is there any way that later in future we can upgrade these system to run on Solar Power ? or there is no way that this system can be upgrade or support to work with Solar power , in that case later if we want to power by solar power do we need to redo all and buy new equipment's ?
@@johnnyjax6444 So actually most of these boilers I've seen in the Mass area have run off of natural gas, rather than oil. I haven't seen anything about linking solar panels to these, and to be honest that's not really something our company has much experience in. You could run this system off of electricity, but if you're heating the whole home vs just your hot water then it may be more efficient (and more reliable) to just use gas. If you're set on pursuing solar power for your home, you might want to look into Mitsubishi Mini Splits since they are specifically designed to run off of electricity. Also, since their installation already requires an electrician, it may be cheaper and easier to have the solar panels connected to the mini splits since they'll already be there for the job. Bear in mind, I'm really not qualified to make suggestions on solar panels but hopefully that gives you some direction in your search for the answer!
Come to Ny, you will become a millionaire
We use pvc for the exhaust here in Ct
Flush and maintain these low mass boilers impeccably otherwise they’re garbage after a few years.
The Mag trap is on the supply side That’s like putting on your baseball glove backwards
Sorry but pro press doesn’t last as long as a solder joint. I am seeing corrosion at pro press joints in under ten years. O rings wont last on a primary/secondary heat loop with high temps. I didn’t see the installer deburr pipe or clean it before he pressed it either.
Them compression fittings will leak when them rings corrode 100%. Job security for the plumbers 😂
How do I start to learn this trade?
Get a job in the field but some basic tools and get after it! Learning on the job is much better then going to school because school doesn’t teach you real life scenarios like the trade will in the field and also don’t give up you’ll start from the bottom but you will go up from there!
Nice sales video lol
Lol thanks! It started as a client testimonial and we got a little carried away with the system install
Read comments below. What type of water shortens a system like this. Treat my well water with Calcite and Corosex 10%, and water softener. Have a ph of 6.8 plus. Anyone know ? Maybe that's why this system is being replaced. If a HE unit is used, was told to have
a good service plan in place.
Seems these high efficiency boilers and heaters have a really short lifespan, that original couldn't have been that old.
I saw a navien system that had no water feeder installed.
They have a built in water feeder.
why go down with the venting?
I thought the same thing at first but I think that was just a different angle if it wasn’t you definitely cannot do that
You guys did excellent work your vents your exhaust and your intake is at the wrong place because it says in the book that you have to be at least 3 feet from any opening which you have a window right above that. Now as your water softener as I live in the northern part of Maine all my life they only work to a certain point and they gotta be serviced now and then and your boiler Has’s to be serviced at the same time that’s what I’ve learned. now the boiler you are using which I’ve had a lot of complaints on it why I have no idea and their service is not that great is the heat exchanger still copper if it is they’re still gonna have a problem with it. This time around I bought a western house that has a stainless steel heat exchanger in it I’ve had it for a couple years and working fine but I have to have it serviced every fall like everything else the water softener that we’ve got is not that great either and the one that we had before that wasn’t any better the people that sold us that water softeners in the past they’re all the same they only work to a certain point they will never take out all the stuff out of your water but that’s my opinion no one else
That was the most incomprehensible rambling of a post I ever saw. 🙄
I wonder how quick these customers called back I feel bad for them. That exhaust pipe goes down then back up. The product of high efficiency combustion is water. Once the pipe fills with water no more heat for them
I can't that local and state laws would allow this boiler to be vented so close under a window. I'm sure even the install manual would prohibit this.
You would be wrong
Here in Germany, specificaly in Hamburg i've seen natiral gas fired so called wall ovens (Wandofen), that have their intake and exhaust in one double walled pipe right underneath the windows. But i dont know the laws in the USA.
If it is a two pipe system only 1 foot of clearance is needed from a window. If you choose to do a 1 pipe then it must be 4 feet. Obviously this is because when you draw inside air you create a negative pressure inside the home as with 2 pipe systems you do not.
If they are in Ontario if the unit is over 100kbtu it’s 3ft to a window
That left over flux will not cause a pin hole. Unfortunately some professionals really know how to scare ppl and some ppl will believe everything they say $$
I’ve been working as a refrigeration mechanic in Ontario Canada for over 25 years in the last five years I have been doing a lot of These wall hung hi efficiency lo mass boilers, yes I generally find it’s not brand specific but most of the problems with these units are installation related I’ve changed over 20 boiler’s under five years old they have been installed from The largest companies around here to the smallest you really need to know what you’re doing above and beyond reading the installation manual, No primary secondary piping, magnets installed on a system that is all copper pipes and copper baseboards with no cast-iron even the circulator was bronze what’s a magnet gonna do it’s an absolute joke a lot of these guys in my area Are coming out of Niagara skilled trades academy we refer to them as GAS dummies they have a gas license but couldn’t throw a piece of pipe if their life depended on it
Should pay someone in your company to pre-fab those boards instead of buying them from FW Webb
zone pumps sitting on top of the primary look awful close to the primary tees looks more designed for ease of assembly than functionality also the mag trap on the supply side is like playing baseball with your glove on backwards
flux will not turn into a pinhole.
Flux over time will corrode the pipe and eventually a small hole will appear but it’s years down the road not immediately.
@@northeastanglerstv1632 - about 1,000 years. Give it or take 5
Pro press😂
That guy explaining the press vs. solder didn’t sound to confident in what he was saying. I bet in the back of his mind he was thinking about how much fun it would be to sweat that system jn
you shouldnt finish your vent pipes lower then you starts lmao those pipes are going to condensate and instead of that condensation running back to the boiler and through the drain on the boiler its gonna sit in the lowest part of that pipe. you went through a stud too thats scuffed
r u guys plumbers
Hi Jeff, we started as a plumbing company but have since branched into all types of HVAC work, electrical, and drain cleaning. That being said, all the Service Experts in this video are primarily plumbers.
@@Addarios some of your wiring is shoddy looking. and cutting a wall stud?
👍🤙🤘
lousy explanation,the plumbing part is well designed and connected. But what is the purpose of the music and the opinion of the home owners like...they know! That's only my opinion ......
"That will eventually turn into a pin hole" but yet you are replacing the boiler and no pin hole. Those rubbers will never last longer than a proper solder joint.
Wasted time watching a commercial that made the click bait promise of explaining how the system works.
You Americans really don’t care about efficiency when it comes to heating. Unless that’s a hotel way to many pumps and overall a rubbish boiler I work on them sometimes over in England.
There's a $20,000 job
If u paid more than 3k u got scammed go get your money back
Terribly expensive design i know your discipline
omfg....pro press fittings on a boiler system....oh nooo
another knuckle that doesn't do service and leaves a disaster for the next guy
HTP???? Garbage. Its just TP.
😂 cmon man.. you aren’t making them zone boards.. FW Webb is.. you know it.. I 100% know it.. and now everyone else knows it..