I think it would be really helpful for people to know your winter kWh/month consumption more-so than the cost. Cost changes with time, anyone interested in doing hydronic radiant with tankless is going to care about electricity consumption, as that's the originator of cost.
not expert.... dude you are way better than many other videos i have seen and your setup is beautiful! thanks for information and the level of detail you gave!
The Ecosmart will adjust the temperature that is coming out of the heater, is controlled by the sensors and the computer of the water heaters. Don't need to turn off the breakers for the water heaters. The system look awesome.
I have virtually the same system in my home (3200 ftsq). The system has been running for 12 years and the only issue has been the flow sense wheel in the Eco is really noisy. The Eco 24 also causes my lights to flicker. I will be replacing the Eco this summer with a heat pump to lower my electrical load.
Thanks for the info guys. Absolute bargain in my opinion. I come from a place where underfloor heating is basically non existent so this info is greatly appreciated!
I, too, live in northern Virginia and my primary HVAC stem is an electric heat pump with back-up resistance heating coils. My conditioned space is 4,400 sqft (9 ft ceilings). My budget electricity plan (12 month moving average) is $205 per month. I keep my house at 70degF in the winter and 74degF in the summer. The heating is much more expensive than the cooling. I have thought of installing radiant heating, but, at this point, I cannot justify they cost. Regardless, I appreciate and like your TH-cam channel!
Thanks for the price breakdown. We bought a 1940 colonial last year. It has a boiler and cast-iron radiators all on 1 zone. I'm planning to zone out the first floor and second floor of the house, and then run radiant tubing in the basement ceiling to heat the first floor. Your video has been very helpful in seeing the components and pricing.
Like your system. I have been working to put together a system for my house. My house was built 60 years ago before these systems came out. I worked at a shop that my boss in stall one of these systems. The main building we in stall a heat exchanger in the duck work and work shop had the plex pipe in stall in the floor. It worked fine. The only problem was he had a wood burning boiler. Where I lived I cannot in stall that kind of boiler. I have been looking at these on demand boiler and did not know if they would work. After seeing your video I am going to go buy one. So I can finish setting up my heating system and cut my gas bill for my furnace.
Awesome video. You talk about monthly costs. What’s your kw/hr cost in your area for hydro? We have a similar size house and are thinking about installing a similar system.
Little suggestion. Tie your other two zones in just incase the seal leaks one day. You can also open one of the unused zones to incase your cold supply tenp. Increasing the cold water supply temp might increase the boiler efficiency. If you can find a ECOsmart efficiency graph you can dial in the boiler to run at its most efficient operating area. Great video👍
I just purchased a newer (7yr old) home with hydronic heated slab in the basement and heated slab in detached 700 sq foot garage. Living in Eastern Canada, our winters are long and can be rather ‘harsh’... I’ve only been in the house for 2 months now but absolutely love this type of heat. We also have electric heated floors in the kitchen and a forced air system as we are approximately 4100 sq feet over 3 levels.. so although the radiant heat does raise, the forced air is still required for the bedrooms on the top level... plus the a/c ducting was required for our hot/humid summers. I love going into my garage that is a constant 17 degrees and getting into my warm vehicle especially as we are currently sitting at -30 degrees with the wind chill. The cost of running the system is almost irrelevant to me given the benefits. I do have the boiler system with a hot water holding tank for household use... so all in one is great!
Amazing. Just saw this. Planning to do small addition to my house in long island NY. Would love to see all your video of your project. Please let me know where to find them. Thank you
i really like the way you use the white tube between the connection. this makes future much easy to change tings, not need to ask a plumber. it can be easily done by ourselves.
Just a couple of ideas. You might want to consider installing a couple of ceiling fans if you haven't already. Heat will stratify even though you have floor radiant. It would be better to get that heat back down to where you live, even though you are comfortable now. It would allow you to turn you floor heat down a bit. I'm not sure I understand why you aren't just running a standard thermostat, but I'm sure that you have your reasons. You should seriously think about replacing your electric water heaters with a wall mount 95% condensing boiler. Your home looks well insulated, and I think you could easily save $100 a month net for heating your home in the middle of winter. You may be a bit afraid of the venting, but that's the easiest part (believe it or not). Just run it out an exterior wall and leave the exhaust higher than the intake and at least 12 inches away so the air intake doesn't suck in the exhaust. Depending on the length, you may be able to use 2" but for certain you could use 3". I'd recommend a Laars FT 100,000 BTU. They are about $1,800 through Supply House, and if you've gotten this far, you're smart enough to do a boiler. You could get a combi and get your hot water from it, but that's up to you. Being a bit long winded here, but you're thinking is backwards on the split duct heat pumps. They are BY FAR the best way to heat your home at least to 30 degrees. Just a guess, but using 14 cents as you cost for electricity, you may be able to heat for $70 a month at 30 degrees and $120 at 10 degrees with a 19-21 seer heat pump. You could probably get by easily with one 24,000 BTU or 2 12,000 BTU heat pumps, and there are very likely rebates available. Depending on your income, you may be able to get them for free or half price because of the Inflation Reduction Act (that program will probably be available in April at the earliest, keep your eyes open). Don't think twice, get split duct heat pumps, even if you love your radiant. Oh, they're easy to put in too. Forgive me if I'm telling you stuff you already know. Good luck! Thanks for the video!
I wish they made a heat pump for ceilings. It would be perfect for their use case. They would do well to get a water tank setup attached to a heat pump to lower their bills. Then some radiators for the inside coming off the same system.
you seem knowledgeable enough and I am entertaining the idea of installing something like this in my apartment in Europe. Ive lived in the US and love how everyone is DIY and I did a fair share of DIY in the US as well... an apartment in Europe things get trickier because, well apartments so logistics is so much different and all the constraints. Anyways, im moving to my own apartment in June and sinnce its the last floor and I have 600 sq ft terrace I can do thinngs at my own pace and entertain some DIY. Since it's a rooftop, I have also space above on the roof and was thinking... is it possible to have this radiant system but instead of a boiler, to have a Solar Panel? Solar Panels with a tank are standard here in this country for Water heating purposes, so I was thinking if a panel would make sense and how much different would the installation be? Seems it would be straighforward no? There are 330 sunny days without a single cloud and in the winter, houses are cold because construction here sucks (all concrete and barely no insulation if any). I do inntend to insulate as most I can but given temperatures at most drop to 40F with sunny day, would such a solar system work? Seems like pretty cheap and great savings given electricity prices here are 30 cents per kWh
Awesome video! I live in rural alaska. I have a 1100 sq house with a attached garage (including the sq footaged) i have a hot water on demand and two toyostove. One in the shop and another in the house. I burn 300 gallons of diesel every 4 to 5 months ($1300) for the diesel. Plus $280 for electric a month. So hope that wood stove will work. Im planning on building a shop with floor heating. That why i watched your video. Thanks again.
Thank you for showing your setup, gave me the push I needed to change my oil burning boiler for the Ecosmart and saved a ton of money on my heating bill. I chose to leave the circulator pump on 24/7 and modulate the output temperature when needed depending on the weather. Works great and cost is way down. Thanks for the help !
3 years now - How do you like it? I am getting my pipping Thursday to install my own in floor heat. I am in Wisconsin. I am excited! The post frame house is spray foamed too.
When wiring the Taco, in the instructions is says to wire it to the "TT" of the boiler. Well you're using an EcoSmart instant hot water heater, and has no "TT" to connect to, so what did you do?
You have a lovely little home! I really appreciate you sharing this information. I just started researching hydronic heating systems. I am thinking about adding a solar-powered system in my condo's basement as a supplement to the forced-air system it has. I'm off to watch your first video now!
Kudos on the diy! You might want to get a flow switch or a low water cutoff to cut the power on the electric boiler in the event of low water/zero pressure. Most local codes require it.
Directly using electricity for heat is highly inefficient in most areas. The mini splits heating function will likely save you 1/3 to 1/2 on power usage. Possibly more depending on your climate and COP of the units you get.
@@truthseekerKJV Yeah that’s the cheapest for sure. Doubt he has access to it. My house in freezing Northern Michigan is nearly 4k s/f and costs $200 heating to 71 with natural gas.
HVAC manufacturers really need to get on the stick and make Air to Water Heat pumps commonplace in the US. They are becoming the go-to in Europe. We already know how efficient air to air heat pumps are, but having air to water would make radiant heat very efficient and very affordable. Would even give natural gas a run for its money.
@@helmutreviews7204 I totally agree with that. The cheaper cooling cost would even help offset the heating cost difference between NG. In my area a geo install costs about 30k. That’s hard to justify. Those new Well-Connect systems that strip water of its heat and dump it in the septic are sorta a step in the right direction coming in a 5-6k for a install. But It’s only supplemental, and only time will tell the adverse effects running 2gpm of water through your well and septic constantly.
@@helmutreviews7204 Air to Air, HP totally suck in the dead of winter. If you own an excavator and have some land, you can put in a Geothermal pretty reasonably and they save a ton of money. Another great option is a wood boiler, especially if you have a wooded lot and don't mind processing some firewood. The new boilers are super efficient, and use half as much wood as they did just 10 yrs ago
Thank you for the video and the information shared. Most amazing part was the ceiling height and little to no effect of this to the heating cost. Interesting. Thanks again.
Just one thing: I would put the circulator to pull the water into the heating unit and NOT pulling from it. It just makes the life easier on the circulator as this method prolongs its life as it gets the water that is not as hot as the water exits the heating unit. That's all. Other than that, I really loved your system. In fact, I'm using it as the model that I'm building my own system based upon.
Have you considered using an air-to-water heat-pump in combination with a large accumulator tank to heat your floor-heating water? A heat-pump with a COP of 3+ is not all that expensive and would reduce your heating-related power bill considerably. Your circulation pump would then draw its water from the accumulator tank. I set up such a system here on the west-coast of Norway about 12 years ago and it works wonderfully. I even use the heat pump to draw air from the house's ventilation thus ensuring that wonderful combo of fresh and warm indoor climate. If your accumulator has an extra heating coil you may even use it to preheat the cold inlet water that you feed into your consumption hot water tank.
Sounds like a great setup you have! We have extremely limited space in our utility room and the small wall mounted electric tankless is perfect. Heat pumps are the more efficient option for most people for sure.
No one seems to talk about this, but now that you've been using it, how often, and for how long does your floor heating kick on for to keep your home at a comfortable temperature in the winter in a given 24-hour period?
Great video thanks for sharing. Just so that I am clear, your 18kw water heater heats your house and your 27kw water heater you use for hot water like in showers and stuff, is that correct?
@@LittleMountainLife Thank you for your response. I had the idea of doing something similar, but wasn't sure if it would work. After watching your video, I am going to give it a shot. I ordered a 24kw Tempra Plus Instant Hot Water Heater. I am going to install it in what is called an open direct style, which will serve both domestic (showers, sinks, etc.) and a heating loop. No idea if it is going to work, but I shall try it for science! Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
I have installed modulating boilers and ,they are better for heating and hot water with the turn down ratio when not heating and just needed for domestic hot water
You should install a geo thermal unit . I am from Ireland who where the ground freezes in winter . I have worked on alot of houses that have it. It takes heat from 6- 12 foot under the ground and pumps it in to the underfloor heating via a heat exchanger . It has an initial cost but after that you are paying to run a pump only . Boilers are installed as a back up but rarely needed depending on how hot you want the floors ..
Hey good to see your setup again! Man your electric must be higher than mine. My building you probably remember is 2300 sq ft and my bill is usually $200 avg. it was $250 one month when we had a lot of below zero weather but that was crazy cold. Also that includes all my electric usage not just heat. Curious what your cost is per kWh?. Thanks for the update.
I haven’t really had a heat bill in 15 years, I m using an od wb .tho I have some electric cost the rest is basically free after initial install. Tho not as slick of a system it is extremely comparable in the comfort aspect. I’ve saved $30k in propane costs n gotta say “love it “!!!! 3500 square feet too !!
At a tankless fair demo 10 years ago, I asked about merging into a radiant flooring system. The rep said 'Oh, yeah, NO, don't use a tankless. You will be running the burner so randomly and so often, you will burn it out much faster than normal use.' So do research and get multiple opinions. Here in quake country, tanked is the way to go anyway, as it's an additional 30+ gallons of water available in case a pipe breaks.
Thanks for sharing your build, I especially like where you talk about the heating system components. I noticed that your piping to all your components is PEX tubing this is the first system I've seen that isn't copper I'd rather use PEX vs copper for plumbing all the components together Have you had any problems with PEX instead of copper setup?
Thanks for the update. What it has show me is that I sure dont want to use electric resistance to power my system. Even with the fluctuation in prices for propane going with a storage tank and a few solar panels, will be a much better way for me. Am thinking that the upfront cost might be a bit more, but the back end costs will be a lot more $$$ efficient. I live in zone 4 almost to zone three, so my heating needs are a great deal less than yours. I am using 7/8 inch pex al pex so I can go up to 500 foot per loop. What this means is just three loops. Really not a lot of reason to have balancing valves like yours. Three full port valves for me will be fine. I am looking to do 2 12k btu mini split heat pumps. They will not draw as much current as I am looking at 240 vac models.
Right now Natural gas and propane would be a cheaper heating option over electric. Save over 1/2 to 1/3 price if they could use that or get access for it.
@@stevepailet8258 If he did a thermal mass build and then hooked up to off peak electricity rates , he could be pretty close to ng/propane rates. Off peak runs about 3 cents per kw and around 29.5 kw equals 1 therm. So around $.90 per therm for using electricity, off peak. Also electricity is 100 percent efficient where ng depends on boiler efficiency . So off peak might be better in some areas due to delivery charges
@@JasonTH-cam dont know what state he is in.. so cannot comment. Dont know about his thermal mass or inches of insulation nor what kind of air and moisture barriers he used. Lots of things to be considered. I know one thing in Canada they are looking at such things and the bottom line is they are building in a colder climate and using only enough power that they can heat the house with what is equivalent to a hair drier. 1500 watts and that is a base board heater.
Could you estimate your usage in KW or tell us what your electric rate is per KWH. I'd like to estimate costs in other areas or electricity needed from a solar system? Thanks, great videos!
Came here wondering this too: what was the cost per KW and how many KWs was the bill? And to confirm that’s just the heating not your whole electric bill
What does everyone else pay for their utilities? Mine in Central Iowa with Mid American Energy are: KW used = 1710, bill for electric = $141.61... so 141.61/1710 = $0.0828 per KW For Natural Gas I used 112 therms and was billed $67.82... so 67.82/112= $0.6055 per therm. This bill was for January 2021. My house was built in 2018 and I only have a natural gas forced air furnace. I’m trying to decide on an electric vs natural gas boiler for my radiant floor heat in my basement.
Anyone deciding to dyi a radiant slab job should make sure to insulate the sides of your slab with twice the insulation thickness as what is under the floor. Outdoor temps are colder up shallow near the slab edges in winter than directly under the slab and much of your heat will exit where heat loss is greatest. Think about it, the natural ground is say 50 degrees F, but at the edges near the surface the ground temps could be well below 32F. Install "edge" insulation to extend to at least 18" below the surface. Just some solid advice......
Hello nice video. I build a 1200 Sq ft slab on grade double wall construction which I s supper insulated I put in a open radiant floor system where I use two 50 gallon heat pump electric hot water tanks .this supply my heat and hot water .I keep my heat at 74 degrees for 8 months a year and it's cost me me about $750. A year at $00.10 AKH I live in upstate northern NY so it does get cold here.
there are charts you can referance. I belive you use the output of water heater or boiler and the puressre the system opperates at. for radiant usually 30psi
an expansion take is just a tank full of air with a rubber bladder separating it from the water. basically a bloon. when valves open and close the puresser can spike in the inclosed water system. the tank is ment disapate thoes short spikes in puressure, rather then a connection or other piece of equipment.
does different floors need different system or can it be integrated into one system? how comfortable you are about putting it concrete!! i am little concerned about leaks and having issues on repair as i wont be able to take it out if there is a leak
Great video! Great job, sir! I have learned a great deal from everything you covered in it. Just a question: did you mean 4 loops? (you mentioned "zones" @ 10:39).. I don't see more than 1 circulator(pump) hence my question! Also, which state of this great country of ours are you in? Thank you so much!
When you say cold outside, I would like to know the actual temperature outside and inside. What happens if you loose power to your system ? Ice on power lines etc. Do you think it will stay warm for 24 hours or less ?
Great video! Thanks for sharing your experience. I live in Norway and want to setup a similar system. Did you consider using tank heating systems rather than tankless? Main benefit I see is the ability to avoid running the heaters during peak electricity prices (6-10 am and 5-8 pm). Thanks!
Very interesting. I wouldn't go electric as where I am at it is very expensive but if it works for you, hey its ok. It would be a great test if one could add in a propane tankless heater to compare costs. The more remote one is, the less options are out there.
For sure a test to compare would be good to see. Yeah we just aren't interested in relying on propane delivery up the mountain. Last winter a propane truck got stuck up here for several days and the people needing it were out of luck...
I put in the same type system in my pole barn house in the 80's It has worked well. I don't think you need a 140 degree water temperature. I run mine at around 100 degrees which was what was recommended at the time. If you lower the temperature of course the pump will run at longer intervals but overall I think it might be more efficient.
It would definitely be more efficient because it takes less energy to move the water than it does to heat it. That pump's energy consumption is nothing compared to those heaters.
Not quite accurate, electric heat produces 3412 BTU per 1 kWH consumed at 100% efficiency. If you dial down your water temperature it will just take longer to output the required BTU's (all the while running your circulator pump longer, using more electricity). Given current energy prices, electric heat is in almost all cases NEVER more efficient than other options. Electric heat pump (air/air, hot water, etc.) is almost ALWAYS more efficient than other options besides wood.
Hello. Great video describing your system. I did the same for my garage floor. I'm using the Honeywell aq1000 thermostat also. How did you wire it? My system comes on if I jumper the thermostat wires in the Taco controller but the thermostat doesn't kick it on Thanks
Great explanation of the system. I'm glad it's working so well for you guys. I have a 14x16 building and had a Mitsubishi mini split installed. It's wonderful! Very economic and reliable and keeps the temp within 1* either cooling or heating. Also it's whisper quiet which is nice.
so I did mini splits in my shop 28x40. I also did radiant tubes just in case and for resale. After being in my neighbor's shop who did radiant....I'm thinking strongly about adding it. His shop "felt" so much better than my shop. If you live a Menards they sell everything needed and they (via Nebco) will do the tube layout for you.
I am surprised it is costing 250/mnth for heat. I can only surmise you are still pretty leaky with the envelope. Any way was nice to see who and how you sourced the bits and pieces and it gives me a better idea of what to expect in Canada with our low cad/usa dollar conversion. All good information.
You might have covered it but what temperature do you normally try to keep the barndo at? Have enjoyed watching all your videos and appreciate you sharing the successes as well as the failures and how you overcame them.
Thanks we appreciate you saying that! We currently have the heater set to 110 degrees with just one of the two elements on and the outside temp is 15 degrees. Inside room temp is 73.
@@LittleMountainLife whoa 110 degrees sounds hot for floor water when 15deg outside. What is the actual water temperature, is it keeping the 110 or is the temp limited by the heater power? Do you have any way to control the heater setpoint according to outdoor temp?
I wanted to ask if it is easy or difficult to install central heating as a beginner who has finished the 4 month school for hvac systems, where should we base ourselves
Question for ya, I'm looking at using the same hot water heaters, but the ECO8 Model, you said you turned off one breaker to the ECO18 , what are your inlet and outlet temps running with only 9kw vs 18kw
So I later realized the eco smarts have a sensor making it so the unit only draws the power needed to heat to the set temp. I now keep both elements turned on at all times.
I think it would be really helpful for people to know your winter kWh/month consumption more-so than the cost. Cost changes with time, anyone interested in doing hydronic radiant with tankless is going to care about electricity consumption, as that's the originator of cost.
you did great !!! I think you should do this for all your family.. for a DIYer ...I bow to you ...
Thanks! 🙂
not expert.... dude you are way better than many other videos i have seen and your setup is beautiful! thanks for information and the level of detail you gave!
The Ecosmart will adjust the temperature that is coming out of the heater, is controlled by the sensors and the computer of the water heaters. Don't need to turn off the breakers for the water heaters. The system look awesome.
Thanks! Yeah I’ve realized that the sensor helps regulate the required energy to heat the water 👍🙂
I have virtually the same system in my home (3200 ftsq). The system has been running for 12 years and the only issue has been the flow sense wheel in the Eco is really noisy. The Eco 24 also causes my lights to flicker. I will be replacing the Eco this summer with a heat pump to lower my electrical load.
Thanks for the info guys. Absolute bargain in my opinion. I come from a place where underfloor heating is basically non existent so this info is greatly appreciated!
I, too, live in northern Virginia and my primary HVAC stem is an electric heat pump with back-up resistance heating coils. My conditioned space is 4,400 sqft (9 ft ceilings). My budget electricity plan (12 month moving average) is $205 per month. I keep my house at 70degF in the winter and 74degF in the summer. The heating is much more expensive than the cooling. I have thought of installing radiant heating, but, at this point, I cannot justify they cost. Regardless, I appreciate and like your TH-cam channel!
Cool!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the price breakdown. We bought a 1940 colonial last year. It has a boiler and cast-iron radiators all on 1 zone. I'm planning to zone out the first floor and second floor of the house, and then run radiant tubing in the basement ceiling to heat the first floor. Your video has been very helpful in seeing the components and pricing.
Glad the video was helpful!
Like your system. I have been working to put together a system for my house. My house was built 60 years ago before these systems came out. I worked at a shop that my boss in stall one of these systems. The main building we in stall a heat exchanger in the duck work and work shop had the plex pipe in stall in the floor. It worked fine. The only problem was he had a wood burning boiler. Where I lived I cannot in stall that kind of boiler. I have been looking at these on demand boiler and did not know if they would work. After seeing your video I am going to go buy one. So I can finish setting up my heating system and cut my gas bill for my furnace.
Awesome video. You talk about monthly costs. What’s your kw/hr cost in your area for hydro? We have a similar size house and are thinking about installing a similar system.
Little suggestion. Tie your other two zones in just incase the seal leaks one day. You can also open one of the unused zones to incase your cold supply tenp. Increasing the cold water supply temp might increase the boiler efficiency. If you can find a ECOsmart efficiency graph you can dial in the boiler to run at its most efficient operating area. Great video👍
I just purchased a newer (7yr old) home with hydronic heated slab in the basement and heated slab in detached 700 sq foot garage.
Living in Eastern Canada, our winters are long and can be rather ‘harsh’... I’ve only been in the house for 2 months now but absolutely love this type of heat. We also have electric heated floors in the kitchen and a forced air system as we are approximately 4100 sq feet over 3 levels.. so although the radiant heat does raise, the forced air is still required for the bedrooms on the top level... plus the a/c ducting was required for our hot/humid summers. I love going into my garage that is a constant 17 degrees and getting into my warm vehicle especially as we are currently sitting at -30 degrees with the wind chill. The cost of running the system is almost irrelevant to me given the benefits. I do have the boiler system with a hot water holding tank for household use... so all in one is great!
That's nice.
Amazing. Just saw this. Planning to do small addition to my house in long island NY. Would love to see all your video of your project. Please let me know where to find them. Thank you
So you have two more loops available for a year round green house. Nice setup
i really like the way you use the white tube between the connection. this makes future much easy to change tings, not need to ask a plumber. it can be easily done by ourselves.
Just a couple of ideas. You might want to consider installing a couple of ceiling fans if you haven't already. Heat will stratify even though you have floor radiant. It would be better to get that heat back down to where you live, even though you are comfortable now. It would allow you to turn you floor heat down a bit. I'm not sure I understand why you aren't just running a standard thermostat, but I'm sure that you have your reasons.
You should seriously think about replacing your electric water heaters with a wall mount 95% condensing boiler. Your home looks well insulated, and I think you could easily save $100 a month net for heating your home in the middle of winter. You may be a bit afraid of the venting, but that's the easiest part (believe it or not). Just run it out an exterior wall and leave the exhaust higher than the intake and at least 12 inches away so the air intake doesn't suck in the exhaust. Depending on the length, you may be able to use 2" but for certain you could use 3". I'd recommend a Laars FT 100,000 BTU. They are about $1,800 through Supply House, and if you've gotten this far, you're smart enough to do a boiler. You could get a combi and get your hot water from it, but that's up to you.
Being a bit long winded here, but you're thinking is backwards on the split duct heat pumps. They are BY FAR the best way to heat your home at least to 30 degrees. Just a guess, but using 14 cents as you cost for electricity, you may be able to heat for $70 a month at 30 degrees and $120 at 10 degrees with a 19-21 seer heat pump. You could probably get by easily with one 24,000 BTU or 2 12,000 BTU heat pumps, and there are very likely rebates available. Depending on your income, you may be able to get them for free or half price because of the Inflation Reduction Act (that program will probably be available in April at the earliest, keep your eyes open). Don't think twice, get split duct heat pumps, even if you love your radiant. Oh, they're easy to put in too.
Forgive me if I'm telling you stuff you already know.
Good luck! Thanks for the video!
I wish they made a heat pump for ceilings. It would be perfect for their use case.
They would do well to get a water tank setup attached to a heat pump to lower their bills. Then some radiators for the inside coming off the same system.
you seem knowledgeable enough and I am entertaining the idea of installing something like this in my apartment in Europe. Ive lived in the US and love how everyone is DIY and I did a fair share of DIY in the US as well... an apartment in Europe things get trickier because, well apartments so logistics is so much different and all the constraints. Anyways, im moving to my own apartment in June and sinnce its the last floor and I have 600 sq ft terrace I can do thinngs at my own pace and entertain some DIY.
Since it's a rooftop, I have also space above on the roof and was thinking... is it possible to have this radiant system but instead of a boiler, to have a Solar Panel? Solar Panels with a tank are standard here in this country for Water heating purposes, so I was thinking if a panel would make sense and how much different would the installation be? Seems it would be straighforward no? There are 330 sunny days without a single cloud and in the winter, houses are cold because construction here sucks (all concrete and barely no insulation if any). I do inntend to insulate as most I can but given temperatures at most drop to 40F with sunny day, would such a solar system work? Seems like pretty cheap and great savings given electricity prices here are 30 cents per kWh
Awesome video! I live in rural alaska. I have a 1100 sq house with a attached garage (including the sq footaged) i have a hot water on demand and two toyostove. One in the shop and another in the house. I burn 300 gallons of diesel every 4 to 5 months ($1300) for the diesel. Plus $280 for electric a month. So hope that wood stove will work. Im planning on building a shop with floor heating. That why i watched your video. Thanks again.
Thank you for showing your setup, gave me the push I needed to change my oil burning boiler for the Ecosmart and saved a ton of money on my heating bill. I chose to leave the circulator pump on 24/7 and modulate the output temperature when needed depending on the weather. Works great and cost is way down. Thanks for the help !
3 years now - How do you like it? I am getting my pipping Thursday to install my own in floor heat. I am in Wisconsin. I am excited! The post frame house is spray foamed too.
Dang you 2 people seem evenly yoked congratulations on meeting each other 💕god bless your lives
Thank you! :)
I need to go back and watch your installation video. I wasn’t following you guys yet. We’d love to install radiant heat in our basement.
Well this is a better video so be nice 🤣
@@LittleMountainLife I’ll keep that in mind. 😂
You are the man of true DIY Sprit! Thanks for sharing all the information.
Thanks for watching!
do you have a good alternative to the linked thermostat? It says no longer available.
You guys are amazing! These videos are exceptional and will help millions of people thinking about diying their houses!
Thank you for saying that. You rock!
Good for you guy's , you did it right. The whole house is the way to go.
Thanks, looking to build a small retirement home and do this.
When wiring the Taco, in the instructions is says to wire it to the "TT" of the boiler. Well you're using an EcoSmart instant hot water heater, and has no "TT" to connect to, so what did you do?
You have a lovely little home! I really appreciate you sharing this information. I just started researching hydronic heating systems. I am thinking about adding a solar-powered system in my condo's basement as a supplement to the forced-air system it has. I'm off to watch your first video now!
Thank you!
Kudos on the diy! You might want to get a flow switch or a low water cutoff to cut the power on the electric boiler in the event of low water/zero pressure. Most local codes require it.
Thanks! The electric tankless turns off when the flow of the water stops.
Directly using electricity for heat is highly inefficient in most areas. The mini splits heating function will likely save you 1/3 to 1/2 on power usage. Possibly more depending on your climate and COP of the units you get.
And a natural gas heat system would be even less than that.
@@truthseekerKJV Yeah that’s the cheapest for sure. Doubt he has access to it. My house in freezing Northern Michigan is nearly 4k s/f and costs $200 heating to 71 with natural gas.
HVAC manufacturers really need to get on the stick and make Air to Water Heat pumps commonplace in the US. They are becoming the go-to in Europe. We already know how efficient air to air heat pumps are, but having air to water would make radiant heat very efficient and very affordable. Would even give natural gas a run for its money.
@@helmutreviews7204 I totally agree with that. The cheaper cooling cost would even help offset the heating cost difference between NG. In my area a geo install costs about 30k. That’s hard to justify. Those new Well-Connect systems that strip water of its heat and dump it in the septic are sorta a step in the right direction coming in a 5-6k for a install. But It’s only supplemental, and only time will tell the adverse effects running 2gpm of water through your well and septic constantly.
@@helmutreviews7204 Air to Air, HP totally suck in the dead of winter.
If you own an excavator and have some land, you can put in a Geothermal pretty reasonably and they save a ton of money. Another great option is a wood boiler, especially if you have a wooded lot and don't mind processing some firewood. The new boilers are super efficient, and use half as much wood as they did just 10 yrs ago
Thank you for the video and the information shared. Most amazing part was the ceiling height and little to no effect of this to the heating cost. Interesting. Thanks again.
Just one thing: I would put the circulator to pull the water into the heating unit and NOT pulling from it. It just makes the life easier on the circulator as this method prolongs its life as it gets the water that is not as hot as the water exits the heating unit.
That's all. Other than that, I really loved your system. In fact, I'm using it as the model that I'm building my own system based upon.
Have you considered using an air-to-water heat-pump in combination with a large accumulator tank to heat your floor-heating water? A heat-pump with a COP of 3+ is not all that expensive and would reduce your heating-related power bill considerably. Your circulation pump would then draw its water from the accumulator tank. I set up such a system here on the west-coast of Norway about 12 years ago and it works wonderfully. I even use the heat pump to draw air from the house's ventilation thus ensuring that wonderful combo of fresh and warm indoor climate. If your accumulator has an extra heating coil you may even use it to preheat the cold inlet water that you feed into your consumption hot water tank.
Sounds like a great setup you have!
We have extremely limited space in our utility room and the small wall mounted electric tankless is perfect. Heat pumps are the more efficient option for most people for sure.
Happy 2 year anniversary.
No one seems to talk about this, but now that you've been using it, how often, and for how long does your floor heating kick on for to keep your home at a comfortable temperature in the winter in a given 24-hour period?
What size connection at the water heater for your pex and what size pex did you use
3/4"
Nice setup guys
Thanks!
Great video thanks for sharing. Just so that I am clear, your 18kw water heater heats your house and your 27kw water heater you use for hot water like in showers and stuff, is that correct?
Thanks!
Yes the 18kw is on a closed loop with the radiant heat. The 27kw is for the kitchen, shared bath, and laundry.
@@LittleMountainLife Thank you for your response. I had the idea of doing something similar, but wasn't sure if it would work. After watching your video, I am going to give it a shot. I ordered a 24kw Tempra Plus Instant Hot Water Heater. I am going to install it in what is called an open direct style, which will serve both domestic (showers, sinks, etc.) and a heating loop. No idea if it is going to work, but I shall try it for science! Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
I have installed modulating boilers and ,they are better for heating and hot water with the turn down ratio when not heating and just needed for domestic hot water
Watched your setup back when Natalie and I was setting up our radiant floor sustem. Good to see it still working good.
If I could go back and do it again, I'd install a radiant floor heat system tied into our boiler setup. Nicely done👍
Yeah it’s pretty great!
Thanks man!
Basically a different type of masonry heater. Very cool.
Awesome video, folks. Thank you!
You should install a geo thermal unit . I am from Ireland who where the ground freezes in winter . I have worked on alot of houses that have it. It takes heat from 6- 12 foot under the ground and pumps it in to the underfloor heating via a heat exchanger . It has an initial cost but after that you are paying to run a pump only . Boilers are installed as a back up but rarely needed depending on how hot you want the floors ..
Solar heat will happen soon 👍
Have you considered setting water heaters lead lag so that they see somewhat of equal use ( lead lag takes turns being first on last off )
Hey good to see your setup again! Man your electric must be higher than mine. My building you probably remember is 2300 sq ft and my bill is usually $200 avg. it was $250 one month when we had a lot of below zero weather but that was crazy cold. Also that includes all my electric usage not just heat. Curious what your cost is per kWh?. Thanks for the update.
$250 seems so cheap to me out in Northern California! I'm curious what YOU pay per kWh?
I haven’t really had a heat bill in 15 years, I m using an od wb .tho I have some electric cost the rest is basically free after initial install. Tho not as slick of a system it is extremely comparable in the comfort aspect. I’ve saved $30k in propane costs n gotta say “love it “!!!! 3500 square feet too !!
At a tankless fair demo 10 years ago, I asked about merging into a radiant flooring system. The rep said 'Oh, yeah, NO, don't use a tankless. You will be running the burner so randomly and so often, you will burn it out much faster than normal use.' So do research and get multiple opinions.
Here in quake country, tanked is the way to go anyway, as it's an additional 30+ gallons of water available in case a pipe breaks.
Great video! Wow that’s cheap in a cold climate
thank you Don , awesome video! I love the hat too!!
Thanks! 👍🙂
Thank you for the great detail!
Thanks for sharing your build, I especially like where you talk about the heating system components.
I noticed that your piping to all your components is PEX tubing this is the first system I've seen that isn't copper
I'd rather use PEX vs copper for plumbing all the components together Have you had any problems with PEX instead of copper setup?
Thanks for the update. What it has show me is that I sure dont want to use electric resistance to power my system. Even with the fluctuation in prices for propane going with a storage tank and a few solar panels, will be a much better way for me. Am thinking that the upfront cost might be a bit more, but the back end costs will be a lot more $$$ efficient. I live in zone 4 almost to zone three, so my heating needs are a great deal less than yours. I am using 7/8 inch pex al pex so I can go up to 500 foot per loop. What this means is just three loops. Really not a lot of reason to have balancing valves like yours. Three full port valves for me will be fine. I am looking to do 2 12k btu mini split heat pumps. They will not draw as much current as I am looking at 240 vac models.
Sure thing. Sounds like you have a solid plan!
Right now Natural gas and propane would be a cheaper heating option over electric. Save over 1/2 to 1/3 price if they could use that or get access for it.
@@JasonTH-cam electricity / resistance heating will always be the most expensive way to heat water.
@@stevepailet8258 If he did a thermal mass build and then hooked up to off peak electricity rates , he could be pretty close to ng/propane rates. Off peak runs about 3 cents per kw and around 29.5 kw equals 1 therm. So around $.90 per therm for using electricity, off peak. Also electricity is 100 percent efficient where ng depends on boiler efficiency . So off peak might be better in some areas due to delivery charges
@@JasonTH-cam dont know what state he is in.. so cannot comment. Dont know about his thermal mass or inches of insulation nor what kind of air and moisture barriers he used. Lots of things to be considered. I know one thing in Canada they are looking at such things and the bottom line is they are building in a colder climate and using only enough power that they can heat the house with what is equivalent to a hair drier. 1500 watts and that is a base board heater.
Could you estimate your usage in KW or tell us what your electric rate is per KWH. I'd like to estimate costs in other areas or electricity needed from a solar system? Thanks, great videos!
Like the Redlegs hat ⚾️ !
Do you have a supply line for the closed loop with a one way valve? You may need to add that so you don’t get a shortage of water
No supply side but the valves at the heater make topping off the system easy with a hose. Haven’t needed to do that the last 3 winters though.
Very informative. Just curious to know what you pay per KWh in your area. I’m on a duel fuel geothermal system and we get a big break in electricity.
Came here wondering this too: what was the cost per KW and how many KWs was the bill? And to confirm that’s just the heating not your whole electric bill
What does everyone else pay for their utilities? Mine in Central Iowa with Mid American Energy are: KW used = 1710, bill for electric = $141.61... so 141.61/1710 = $0.0828 per KW
For Natural Gas I used 112 therms and was billed $67.82... so 67.82/112= $0.6055 per therm.
This bill was for January 2021. My house was built in 2018 and I only have a natural gas forced air furnace. I’m trying to decide on an electric vs natural gas boiler for my radiant floor heat in my basement.
Nice job - appreciate all of the details - best of luck to you!
Thank you!
Great job and update. I remember the last video on radiant floor😎
Thank you!
Anyone deciding to dyi a radiant slab job should make sure to insulate the sides of your slab with twice the insulation thickness as what is under the floor. Outdoor temps are colder up shallow near the slab edges in winter than directly under the slab and much of your heat will exit where heat loss is greatest. Think about it, the natural ground is say 50 degrees F, but at the edges near the surface the ground temps could be well below 32F. Install "edge" insulation to extend to at least 18" below the surface. Just some solid advice......
Hello nice video. I build a 1200 Sq ft slab on grade double wall construction which I s supper insulated I put in a open radiant floor system where I use two 50 gallon heat pump electric hot water tanks .this supply my heat and hot water .I keep my heat at 74 degrees for 8 months a year and it's cost me me about $750. A year at $00.10 AKH I live in upstate northern NY so it does get cold here.
Very impressed thanks for putting all the links. They realy help my. ? How do you know what size pressure tank or expansion tank to use
there are charts you can referance. I belive you use the output of water heater or boiler and the puressre the system opperates at. for radiant usually 30psi
an expansion take is just a tank full of air with a rubber bladder separating it from the water. basically a bloon. when valves open and close the puresser can spike in the inclosed water system. the tank is ment disapate thoes short spikes in puressure, rather then a connection or other piece of equipment.
does different floors need different system or can it be integrated into one system? how comfortable you are about putting it concrete!! i am little concerned about leaks and having issues on repair as i wont be able to take it out if there is a leak
What is your temperature set to and also your electricity rates?
Usually set to 110f rates vary but around .097 per kwh
@@LittleMountainLife Your heat your house to 110 degrees?
Sorry no the house radiant is set to 65 in the winter. The electric water heater for the radiant is set at 110.
@@LittleMountainLife Thanks for the info.
Great job again! Thank you for the cost analysis!!
Well done video
Haha, thanks again! 🙃 appreciate you!
Great video! Great job, sir!
I have learned a great deal from everything you covered in it.
Just a question: did you mean 4 loops? (you mentioned "zones" @ 10:39).. I don't see more than 1 circulator(pump) hence my question!
Also, which state of this great country of ours are you in?
Thank you so much!
You both are awesome. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
When you say cold outside, I would like to know the actual temperature outside and inside. What happens if you loose power to your system ? Ice on power lines etc. Do you think it will stay warm for 24 hours or less ?
How much temperature does the water lose from the time it exits your water heater, to the time it travels back to the water heater?
I think that system would be great with hybrid water heaters
Man that looks confusing but actually quite simple. You remind me of the actor Sean Astin from 50 first dates. Lol.
Fantastic info. I’m planning adu and your tips are great
Happen to have a link for thermostat?
Been watching your videos before I do my barn floor, working barn not living
Nice staff, thanks for sharing))
Thanks for watching!
Good job hope you’re enjoy it guys 👍
Thank you!
Very well and considerately explained.
Awesome!!! Is it ok to install a hardwood floor on a hydronic slab?
Yes, just make sure the specific flooring is rated for radiant heat by the manufacturer.
Can you please describe the steps of how you added the thermostat?
Fantastic video, very well explained and a smart set-up to heat your house.
Thank you!
Great video! Thanks for sharing your experience. I live in Norway and want to setup a similar system. Did you consider using tank heating systems rather than tankless? Main benefit I see is the ability to avoid running the heaters during peak electricity prices (6-10 am and 5-8 pm). Thanks!
We went tankless because of the easier install and less space required.
can you share a diagram of the wiring set up you did from the thermostat to the pump.
18 KW?!!! Holy #$%@$! That's some serious power requirements. I'll take air source heat pumps any day of the week thank you.
Everyone has their own way of doing things. 🙂 thanks for watching
His system is more comfortable than any AIR system would be. A wood boiler will help.
Did you place the floor sensor prior to concrete being poored?
no, after.
Thanks and have a wonderful life
Great video. Was curious if you could share the kilo watt hours used when you estimated three cost for hearing one month?
we can get very close. $200 / month. USA average .10 cents per kWh. $200 divided by .10 = 2,000 kWh.
Great job. You work with what you have.
Thank you!
Very interesting. I wouldn't go electric as where I am at it is very expensive but if it works for you, hey its ok. It would be a great test if one could add in a propane tankless heater to compare costs. The more remote one is, the less options are out there.
For sure a test to compare would be good to see.
Yeah we just aren't interested in relying on propane delivery up the mountain. Last winter a propane truck got stuck up here for several days and the people needing it were out of luck...
I put in the same type system in my pole barn house in the 80's It has worked well. I don't think you need a 140 degree water temperature. I run mine at around 100 degrees which was what was recommended at the time. If you lower the temperature of course the pump will run at longer intervals but overall I think it might be more efficient.
It would definitely be more efficient because it takes less energy to move the water than it does to heat it. That pump's energy consumption is nothing compared to those heaters.
Not quite accurate, electric heat produces 3412 BTU per 1 kWH consumed at 100% efficiency. If you dial down your water temperature it will just take longer to output the required BTU's (all the while running your circulator pump longer, using more electricity). Given current energy prices, electric heat is in almost all cases NEVER more efficient than other options. Electric heat pump (air/air, hot water, etc.) is almost ALWAYS more efficient than other options besides wood.
AMAZING VIDEO and to top that...great host, excellent list of components I am so greatful for finding this video...all the best! 20 out 10 *****
Hello. Great video describing your system. I did the same for my garage floor. I'm using the Honeywell aq1000 thermostat also. How did you wire it? My system comes on if I jumper the thermostat wires in the Taco controller but the thermostat doesn't kick it on Thanks
Hey thanks! I’m having a similar issue that I haven’t yet been able to figure out. Responded to your email too 👍
Great explanation of the system. I'm glad it's working so well for you guys.
I have a 14x16 building and had a Mitsubishi mini split installed. It's wonderful! Very economic and reliable and keeps the temp within 1* either cooling or heating. Also it's whisper quiet which is nice.
Awesome!
Thanks for watching!
so I did mini splits in my shop 28x40. I also did radiant tubes just in case and for resale. After being in my neighbor's shop who did radiant....I'm thinking strongly about adding it. His shop "felt" so much better than my shop. If you live a Menards they sell everything needed and they (via Nebco) will do the tube layout for you.
Hi. Will you be willing to write a list of supplies. It will be greatly appreciated
THanks for an interesting video. What climate zone are you in (to better judge your energy use)?
Let me ask you, would it make sense to use the tstat to shut off the power to the heaters and let the pump run continuously?
Just a thought.thanks
Is there anywhere that I can get the floor plan that house seems the perfect size for me
Great video and info. Thanks Guys !!
Thanks for watching!
I am surprised it is costing 250/mnth for heat.
I can only surmise you are still pretty leaky with the envelope.
Any way was nice to see who and how you sourced the bits and pieces and it gives me a better idea of what to expect in Canada with our low cad/usa dollar conversion.
All good information.
His cost per KW might be HIGH, making $250 reasonable compared to other forms of electric resistance heating methods.
You might have covered it but what temperature do you normally try to keep the barndo at? Have enjoyed watching all your videos and appreciate you sharing the successes as well as the failures and how you overcame them.
Thanks we appreciate you saying that!
We currently have the heater set to 110 degrees with just one of the two elements on and the outside temp is 15 degrees. Inside room temp is 73.
@@LittleMountainLife whoa 110 degrees sounds hot for floor water when 15deg outside. What is the actual water temperature, is it keeping the 110 or is the temp limited by the heater power? Do you have any way to control the heater setpoint according to outdoor temp?
I wanted to ask if it is easy or difficult to install central heating as a beginner who has finished the 4 month school for hvac systems, where should we base ourselves
Question for ya, I'm looking at using the same hot water heaters, but the ECO8 Model, you said you turned off one breaker to the ECO18 , what are your inlet and outlet temps running with only 9kw vs 18kw
So I later realized the eco smarts have a sensor making it so the unit only draws the power needed to heat to the set temp. I now keep both elements turned on at all times.