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A couple of things I'd like to point out. Where I usually ride in Southern Oregon, it's much tighter and steeper with more rocky terrain. Think more hard enduro/trials, 8 miles takes us 2 hours or more not including break time in some of the areas. Also the group I've been riding with are all in our mid 60's. So 3-4 hours is about all we can handle. The group includes a 2021 EM Escape, Two guys on 2020 Freeride E s, a heavily modified Sur-Ron & me on my modified 2010 Zero MXE. Which BTW with the battery I built goes farther (runs longer) then any of the bikes in the group. And weighs 140lbs. I've ridden 3 hours and the Freeride E will still have 60% of it's battery in this type of terrain. But if I go to say Reno, NV and ride desert then much shorter ride time (range) of course. Now one of my friends after getting and riding his Freeride E has sold his 300 XC, Husky 150 & his KTM 500 EXC. So much less maintenance. Just plug and play for the most part. So I guess my point is depending on your age (imagine yourself at 68 years old) on tighter more technical trails then the electrics become much more attractive and the range is not as much is any of an issue. I haven't ridden either of my YZ's in months LOL. Tucker, thank you for all you do on your channel.
@Neal Peters Thanks for the note Neal! Sounds like you've got an awesome group to ride with, hope to make it out that way sometime. That 2010 MXE you have is quite a rare bike at this point! 👍
Thank you for your insightful comment! I'm curious about the Electric motion escape since I'm on my way to buy one. I usually only ride very tehcnical (low speed) stuff in the forest and in the mountains, and because of that it's my main choice since it seems like the most nimble bike with decent range out of the box. A "pure" dirtbike is what I have used before and it feels very big and heavy for the type of riding I do. Going tha same path I have more fun on my little 14inch wheeled 125cc four stroke pitbike just because it's so much more nimble compared to the fullsize Honda 250f, ktm 450 etc that I have ridden before. How do you see it from your perspective who sees all the e-bikes bikes togheter? Does the Escape or maybe the epure seem like a good choice for what I am doing?🤔. Best regards from Sweden.
@@Negern91 If you have ridden a trails bike, the Escape will feel right at home. For me some bar risers and maybe a different bend would be helpful. I'm 6'2". Also some more seat padding. Check out the video on that at the YT page mentioned here. If you haven't seen this YT channel then it's a must for that bike. th-cam.com/channels/L-Ez0zEskCZKb-AzsUmI7g.htmlvideos. As a side note. Range in mixed tight single track and flowing two track is about as follows. KTM 25 miles with 5 miles of reserve, Sur-Ron & EM Escape 20 miles with 5 miles of reserve & my Zero MXE 30 miles 5 miles of reserve. Obviously if riding aggressive MX or desert high speed with hills run times would be much less.
@@t_c5266 Either that, ride closer to where there is electricity, get a second battery or don't pick an electric bike for conditions it's not (yet at least) suitable for.
Can we see a comparison that's isn't about how fast you do a lap? Like what compare hill climbs, sections of hard trail ect to see what the electric can do, or even do better than the 300 ? Also I've noticed that you end up going alot faster on an electric than you notice because your brain is used to hearing revs
I have a 2021 300 XCW and love it. Added a TSP kit with ECU remap and really like the torque increase across the powerband. Best dirt bike I've ever owned.
I'm in lockdown here, so I just enjoyed going for a 20 minute ride with you. I currently ride a 350EXCF which is think is the perfect 'old man's bike'. I'm just waiting until the range of the e-bike matches my own endurance as I get older!!
Fantastic comparison. I’m 53 and been riding dirt bikes from 4 years old. I love riding 500 2 stroke & 450 4stroke bikes. Very different but both have their pluses and bonuses. You are not biased towards either bike in this. There’s a lot of that with 2 stroke and 4 stroke bikes. They are all dirt bikes. Great fun to ride and that’s what it’s all about. Everyone who love dirt bikes should just love them for the riding. Each one different in their own way. I have always hated the thought of electric bikes but electric is clearly easier to ride. Very fast too. I would always miss the smell,sound and power band of conventional combustion bikes though. You’re a pro on these vids. Great riding too. We’ll done you. Thanks for making a proper comparison video. You can’t do this with 2 separate riders. 💪💪
Make a race on a real motocross track with a little water. After 10 mn your electric bike will say "Thank you, i go home. Have you power to reload for next race ?". Electrics bikes are here for fun on little tracks and short races. Never , nerver they will beat a 250 4 strockes on a 25 mn race. If you increase battery , you will have weight problem and money problems. Can you imagine an electric bike on a 450 mxgp ? They don't have the energy for a race. Power valve to clean ? You have to clean them less 1 time each year or the problem is not here. You clean them when you change the piston, nothing else. You are not green ! You make a race. Replacing a battery pack each year is not fun for money.
i just built an electric bicycle that has pretty big power at 120v at 22ah, or 72v at 44ah, or 44v at 66ah. i freaking love it, and it still looks like a bicycle so i can blend in or hit trails like the one in the video. love this stuff
I own a 2007 KTM 300 (beast), a 2023 Rieju MR 300 and a KTM e-XC. The E bike is up to the task in almost every situation except for brutal power. I really, really love the rear brake on the hand. Another beautiful thing is that other people in the forest dont look mad at you. Obviously, for masive adrenaline, a 300 2T is unbeatable. But the E-bike is surprisingly good and fun. I really enjoy the 3 bikes. Greatings from Spain. Very good videos.
I avoided an accident yesterday on a narrow trail because I heard a guy coming on his motorcycle and I was able to pull my atv over enough so that he could see me as he came around the corner and he was going pretty fast. If he was on an electric I would not have heard him.
People will transition to wearing 360 degree strobes on their helmets. And possible some type of siren. WHEN everyone is riding elecetric(in ten years or so) This issue will not be an issue. It will work itself out.
It won't work itself out it will just give e bikes a bad name same as motos have now. It's not the bike being a d--k head its the rider and e bikes already attract lets say another level of dumb f--k. I ride mtb and ktm 200 and know a few ebike riders and all are fu---ing stupid how they ride, how fast they go past people and there sever lack of skill .
As a mainly street rider, I haven't looked into off-road riding in years. I just found this yesterday! Wow! Where have I been... I grew up I the NW on Enduro bikes. I recently got a DR-Z400SM to bridge the gap back to some off-roading. That said, I was also surprised in the results. I though the electric with its quick torque would have done better. The 300 is most certainly made of a much more open track, where it can be opened up into its power range. It will be fun someday to go to a race and only here the whine the electrics tearing up the track!!!!
I enjoyed your test. While the electric free ride seem to perform quite well in a three minute loop I’m not sure what was really proven here? The 300 is a full on competition race bike. The free ride is not it is for free riding. That being said I’m quite surprised how close it was to the 300 in your test. I think it says much more for your riding ability and the tightness of the track than it does for a bike comparison. My question to you is if you had an hour just to go mess around on a motorcycle having fun not trying to ride fast just enjoying riding which bike would you choose? In that scenario what kind of range have you seen? Thanks again for your tests as I appreciate them!
@Tom Bledsoe Thanks! Not really much to prove in this video honestly. Just my own curiosity between the two bikes. That's a great question about which bike I'd prefer to ride. I think it would depend on the day. I do switch between the 2T, 4T and E pretty regularly and I love them all for their own characteristics. I don't mean to take the easy way out of your question but it would depend on the day and the terrain for me. If I could only own one bike though, I would definitely stick with the 300 at this point. Appreciate the note 👍
@@ElectricCycleRider I did the sliber turbo ECU mapping with an s3 head on my 21 gasgas ex300 and have similar comments. It makes the bike run far stronger and cleaner across the board, no pipe bang, lean sputter and I barley use map 1 now on mtn trail riding.
The future is closer than we think! I took a 2021 Zero XF 7.2kWH dual-sport on a too brief demo ride that was only 7 city miles - no offroad (ugh) on Oct 30, 2021. That bike had 21" and 18" laced wheels, 78 ft-lb of torque and 46HP (34kW). That much torque and HP on that small bike is amazing, so hold on really tight! Showa 41mm iinverted cartridge forks, fully adjustable (FA), Showa 40mm piston FA shock, Bosch brakes. The lighter 3.6kWH version of the FX weighs 247 lbs wet but the 7.2 kWH version that I rode weighs 289 lbs wet and cost about $11,600. **** Comparing: the KTM Freeride has WP 43mm FA inverted forks and a WP FA rear shock which also features adjustable high speed compression! The motor offers 31 ft-lbs and 24HP (18kW max), the bike is 247 lbs wet. With importation costs rising every day since April 2020 (pandemic related supply blockages greatly delay inbound shipping), the 2021 Freeride E-XC last year cost USA buyers about $11,200.
Seems Legit, 🙋🏻♂️Question is Though; If No One Car Hear You on the Trail ,Doesn’t this Make for Deadly Accidents ??? Loud Pipes Saves Lives. A lot of the Time When Riding I can Hear the other riders before I see them and I am Aware they are around me and I can watch for them. I love the Electric KTM and I’m Not a Hater, I just worry about the safety on the trails, it’s Quick and Quiet!!! On the Flip Side, the Neighbours Won’t be Complaining about the Noise Anymore !!! Cheers and Thanks for the Review.
The number of additional riding places that could open up with E-Bikes owing to lack of noise really makes them a winner. New housing is encroaching on all the nearby riding places and threatens to shut them down. So instead of 1/2 an hour drive to the nearest MX track its more like 2hrs.
That electric bike is phenomenal....so smooth and quiet. The future is exciting. You can ride these practically anywhere and no one can hear you. Awesome. Also noticed that you weren't breathing as heavy riding the electric bike.
Another great video! Always fun to do back to back lap times between bikes! 2-strokes vs 4-strokes, 125's vs 350's vs 300's, and electric vs gas. Lap times are a great way to compare the overall performance of different bikes. I am still amazed that a Freeride which is a hybrid trials/woods bike with shorter woods focused suspension and chassis is so close in lap times and often in my comparisons a few seconds quicker than my gas powered bikes on a 3~7 minute trail loop. The KTM 300 2-stroke is such a well developed bike and the Freeride E-XC development was basically completed back around 2014 and the bike has changed little since. How do you measure the stealth factor and how cool it is to be in the woods on an quiet electric bike?:)
Wow I’m surprised too, to me it seemed like you were same speed basically on both bikes in the tight stuff, but on the straights the E seemed to be going a lot faster. It so awesome that E bikes have evolved into competitive with top tier gas bikes, and surly that trend will continue. I’ve been bikeless for far too many years now and am looking to get back on one, tbh I don’t know how they compare price wise and that’s a big issue for my budget. I’m going straight to google after this to learn the specs on Freeride and pricing vs my old standard YZ250 2 stroke which I’ve had a few from 87, 94 and a couple 2000+. 94 was my favorite, probably because I put the most money into it. Really fantastic video though, you have a new sub, thank random algorithms lol.
I avoided this comparison for a while because the uploader is ‘Electric Cycle Rider’ - I’m not interested in a biased review. That being said, other than stating that the track is ‘tight’ (not even remotely in my world) I thought it was a good comparison. The electric bike looks like a blast to rip around on and he is making what looks to be better time. The elephant in the woods is the Freeride is built light and not near as tough as a regular Dirtbike.
I like your video, I am a 50yo A enduro/hare scramble rider. Huge fan of the KTM300, but rode a sur ron the other day and had a blast. I have no time for hate, I love them all and finding how to go fast on a particular machine is fun. If electric ever has the range to run an enduro and I am faster on it, then that's what I'll race. For now I think that freeride would be a great backyard track bike with the right suspension setup.
@Jean Lavallee Awesome to hear that! We're all just trying to have fun on 2 wheels at the end of the day and they're all great bikes for their own reasons. It's fun to test the bikes and see where they shine but we like them all. You're absolutely right, the Freeride E-XC is a great backyard track bike.
It's funny what people "feel" in terms of how fast they are vs what the objective times actually say. Similar to this test I have heard a number of people say they "felt" faster on the track with their 2 stroke bike but the lap times showed they were actually faster on their4 stroke...that's why we need to trust data and not opinion.
Some more interesting data that you could add would be Heart Rate, Perceived Fatigue post riding each, any arm pump or other physical differences, dba levels and just general audio from 100 yds away (have a buddy film you going through different sections since this is becoming a MAJOR driving force with dirt bikes in and around residential areas), actual run time capacity (30 min? 1 Hour?), what about letting the motor cool between battery swaps (if that's even a thing), Weight differences, Center of mass.....Super cool to see the actual riding and hear the lap time differences, but I'd love to hear more about the perceived effort comparison and the HR data. Thanks, vids are rad!
Thanks for doing the test. The electric probably feels much quicker because it had low down grunt and punch. Can't wait to get range on an electric so I can add that to videos I make. Much respect, keep doing what your doing!
Fun! I’m not gonna buy one but I’ve been watching the tech evolve and enjoying people’s reactions to the electric bikes. I Love the KTM 300. Thanks for the vid, good info.
I'm 60 and rode for like 11 years from 82 to 93, but haven't ridden in about 28 years. But I could see if I ever did decide I wanted to ride that an electric enduro bike would probably be one of the most appealing. Granted I'm saying this having only ridden gas powered bikes. My list in order was XL250, XT550, Saber700, XT650, Shadow750. The Sabre was the only one I bought new! It was probably also the only one that had an engine as I imagine an electric motor is, damn that thing was smooth even at 11k rpm! Sold the Shadow a few months before my first child was born at my wife's request. Luckily I hated that bike so it kinda made it an easy decision. It had straight pipe and I hated the noise, and for a "smooth" V-twin it shook worse than what I remembered the thumpers doing!
Have you ever thought about how much easier it is when you have to stop on a steep and rocky hill, and you can't get your right foot up on the brake pedal because you need that foot for balance, so you end up sliding back with no rear brake? With the rear on the left hand, never an issue. Plus the slow-speed torque of an electric allows you to slowly power out of that exact situation without spinning the rear wheel.
@@mountainflyhigh Exactly. Handbrake is definitely superior, it's just that everyone is so used to footbrakes and also engine sounds. In time, these things will definitely change.
I’m not a dirt bike rider, but I have races mountain bikes and cyclocross, so I’m no stranger to this kind of terrain, but I’m still astounded by the speed I’m seeing at 2:40 . It looks like you’re doing at least 45 mph, perhaps much more. Great suspension, indeed!
@@MiddlePark No, I’m honestly impressed with this. Sure, there may be other riders who are much better, but that doesn’t mean that this isn’t impressive.
I had to watch or more accurately 'listen' to your ride on the 300 two stroker. I only heard you shift twice most of the time. It seems like the power of the new 2 stroker fuel injected bikes has the same power as a four stroker. But then again I'm an old guy from what you guys refer to as the 'vintage two stroke days.' Incredible, we'd have to be on the pipe within an 800 RPM range and shifting all the effing time to do what you're doing. Very cool
@@motoriderguy3854 AMAZING. Keep in mind I've never ridden a water cooled dirt bike! LOL Old school or 'vintage' as you guys like to say. Sounds like a great marriage of two and four strokers!
@@markkitaoka8783 well you need to ride one , they have so much torque that most of the time I'm not even on the pipe and it just keeps pulling up hills . I had a 250 before this , same as the 300 only different motor , its crazy how much different they run . Peace .
@@markkitaoka8783 For sure! @Motoriderguy38 is right, the 300 has tons of torque, weighted flywheel, counterbalancer and allows you to lug it down low and build RPM. I've owned a lot of 125's and even the modern ones, you need to be shifting constantly. Not the case on the modern big bore 2T!
Cool video. The electrics have potential for riding in the Rockies because people are very noise sensitive in the mountains. But, like you said, range is not there yet. For my group rides, riders carry enough fuel for 80 miles and we drop fuel if needed, or transfer to a gas station for a refill. On that same terrain I'd like to see you throw in a lap time for a 450 XCF or FX. I ride with guys on the TPI's. On the technical tighter trails they have the advantage. On faster trails the new 450's with a Rekluse dominate.
The brakes would have been no big deal to me, since I already mountain bike. Liked the sense of thrust that the ebike had, and as an adrenaline hippie, liked that it was quiet.
Had you had a foot brake on the Free Ride you may have well been quicker. My question is would the Free Ride be good for 20-25 miles of trail riding? I'm 63 so I'm not asking about race speeds. I have a 2007 300 XC-W and only get above 3 gear when I'm headed back to the truck. The appeal of electric to me is the lack of needed maintenance. No more pistons, barrels, cranks, clutches, gears, gas, oil. We already have to replace tires, chain, sprockets, brakes, but the plug in and charge and go ride on the weekend really looks to be ideal for me. LOL, provided I can afford one.
For me the biggest difference is with a gas bike I can't ride it without the police being called. With electric I can ride at any time, even at midnight if I wanted and nobody would care. I'd expect there will also be indoor motocross parks in the future where electric bikes could be used indoors during the winter since they have no emissions. Heck, they could even be in a city.
I could care less about lap times. I want to see how the Freeride does on technical single track and hard enduro terrain, big rocks, switch backs, huge log hops, that's more of what both of these bikes are designed for.
Awesome comparison! I’ve been looking for this for a long time so thanks for churning it out! Regarding lap times, E bikes are the newcomer but two stroke dirt bikes have been optimized over the past 60 years! In five years I’m sure they’ll be trick new electronics on electric dirt bikes that will blow away what we have today.
I doubt it. For an electric to be competitive in this market its gotta be light, powerful enough, and enough battery life (especially if competing in single track, enduro scene) all in 1 package. I font see that for dirtbikes in the foreseeable future
@@SL4US battery will never work offroad brother too long to charge range etc thats why 100 years ago they stop making battery cars. Im not sure why they starting this bs again.
in 5 years they're gonna completely forget the idea of an electric dirtbike They cant ever be properly optimized to compete in motocross Do you know how much they refuel during long race events?
one thing about a foot brake is many years ago I put a recluse auto clutch on my bike which I did lots of hill climbing in the foothills and lack of footbrake made it hard to turn bike around on a super steep hill if you did not make it and having rear wheel freewheeling , I also had trouble initially reaching for rear brake first after many years of riding I could not break that habit .
noise plays so much into riding, not at all surprised you would be more composed on the electric, i recall driving damn near under the speed limit anytime id ride without earplugs in lol
I have a ktm 2016 freeride 250R and it rips. My dad is just learning on a 2021 ktm E-XC. I always get scared when were trailriding because I can't hear him behind me hahaha. I always gotta tail him!
Great job showcasing both platforms. I purchased a new 2022 300 xcw and was very impressed with the suspension and power delivery for single track. I have not ridden an E-XC, but as you pointed out the power delivery is instantaneous and linear. I actually like a little bit of engine braking in the xcw, so that I can time my throttle responses with tight cornering and transitions. I think the two biggest hurdle for the E-XC in popularity is the battery life for long rides, and the psychological acceptance of speed without the noise of a combustion engine.
I gave up on reaching for the brake. Just got too dangerous on the jumps. Then I'd hop back on the gas bike and reach for the brake on the handlebar 🤦♂️ Really love having the Freeride in my stable.
I wish there was somewhere to go just ride these. I put a dirt bike into a ditch and got hurt decades ago missing a shift, never been on a dirt bike since. Sur Ron is really appealing but would love somewhere controlled to go just test and compare. Sounds like a spendy business start up.
Still waiting for the Storm Bee from you. It has been on sale in Russia for a long time and there are many reviews. But a direct comparison with KTM Freeride E-XC in the hands of a motocross pro is more interesting. I hope someone will offer you it for review...
Sur Ron really need me to get one in his hands pronto. The big Bee isn’t on sale here in the US yet, but they’d be smart to get one to him and eveRide.
@Kzakkttixx For sure! We've been talking with Sur Ron about it for many months. Hopefully we'll get one sent over from China soon because we too would love to do this comparison!
Depending on the model, I believe the altas are a lot heavier then both of these bikes. Making it harder to handle on this style of track compared to the lighter ktm’s anyway.
@@antssta You bring up a great point. I've ridden the Alta a bit on this track and do feel the extra weight on the tight stuff. At higher speeds, it would be no match though.
@@ElectricCycleRider yer definitely they weight would help track in a straight line through the bumpy roller type stuff all day! Single trail flicking and log jumping is something else on even a slightly modified SurRon 🙂
Good pace you are running there. The electric looks quick when is is smooth and it can put the power down. My guess is the limiting factor is the suspension on the Freeride, even though Brian/FFO had his way with it. The OEM units on the XC-W are very good out of the box, and a lot better than the modded Freeride units, allowing you to attack bumps and hack more aggressively on the 300. Judging by my buddy's new bike, the new XC-W suspension is plush and absorbent but not way too soft like past XC-Ws I have ridden. I am impressed by the performance of the Freeride though, that bike is no fooling around. I could see being happy on an electric, particularly has I toddle off into the sunset years of riding career. Definitely gravitating to shorter distances, but tighter more technical trails, as crashing at speed when one is over 60 sucks. Currently on a '18 300 XC with a Lectron and an S3 head that I love lots, but at some point it will be overkill for me. Electric bonus, one could get away with urban hooliganism a lot easier on an quiet electric bike. Always wanted the street legal Alta for that purpose. City enduro anyone? ;)
Forgot one thing: 2strome ice bikes have less and less spots allowing them to ride on while the electric won’t see any spots closed to them because of the noises. Just that would be a big factor in me buying
Enjoyed the video comparison. And thanks for not adding any soundtrack. Braap braap. Electric is catching up to gas for sure and much easier to just store, charge and go.
Nice bro that’s a great review and thank you. I still have my 2015 it only has 10,643 miles and 741 hours. I’ll trade up with a TPI 300 at 1,000 hours.
It might not seem accurate to compare 300 2T with Freeride but in fact there is a huge market of weekend riders like myself who are constantly mocked for not upgrading to 300 2T and still riding 125's/150's 2T and as much as I would advice someone who just starts riding off road to start on two stroke, my next suggestion would be to go electric, not bigger especially if that person would like to remain on path of weekend/fun rider. I know that electric vehicles in general are expensive plus there is not really any competition for KTM now on market but I hope prices will drop soon enough for me and many other riders to go for electric dirt bikes. We don't want to break the bank on our bikes since we ride several weekends in year. Range is not problematic when you can't really ride for a full day and with time you can always get another battery but in general 3-4 hours is often enough for most of us to charge our batteries and leave our stresses on track/trail. There is also one huge advantage of electric motorcycle - park it for four months in your garage, then just charge your battery, pump your tires and go for a ride. Try to leave your gas motorcycle unattended for that or even longer and than take if for a day of riding. It almost always ends up bad. There is a huge potential in electric dirt bikes and market is already there.
Stumbled across this video and want to preface that I have no experience with these bikes. However, I went to an arena once to watch them race. Part of the excitement was hearing the roar of the engines. What's the communities take on the electric bike and do you think the lack of engine noise would take away from the fan experience? My personal opinion is that I like the sound of the engines and think I'd prefer it to an all electric bike race.
The Freeride is one interesting thing for an enduro. So much more to come.. i always find it kinda interesting that there isn’t much interest in development of the bikes and stuff for them.
I think the electric is bad ass for a lot of reasons but for some reason I think the overall experience seems way more rewarding on the gas powered machine
The power difference is so crazy between the two though. The Free Ride coming in at just around 25 horsepower at the rear tire. Then the 300 is over 55hp at rear tire. Electrics going to get there one day
You can easily get a more powerful electric motor, the problem is it needs a bigger, heavier battery to run it. On dirt, especially at low speed, there's a limit to how much power is usable, it's limited by traction, so the extra horsepower is really only useful on the faster, open bits.
Thanks for amazing video.I've never driven a dirt bike. That is on my bucket list. Pros which I see for electric one. 1)silence-my background is MTB, I love sport and sounds of nature. 2)I don't like mechanics, and what I've founded with dirt bikes, after couple moto hours you have to change oils. Or maybe it's not a big deal 🤔 .
Hey bro on the electric bike just run the right hand brake for the rear and the left hand brake for the front it's kind of kooky but I think you might like it
I bet that fumbling for controls every once in a while makes up a few seconds per lap. I'm very interested in the upcoming crop of electric motorcycles and e-bikes like the new Segway Dirt eBike X260. I think it is hard for motorcycles to compete with how lightweight the new electrics are. Having ridden a heavy adventure bike off road vs a pedal powered mountain bike, lightness gives so much confidence.
These tests you do are awesome mate and yes here in Australia 🇦🇺 distance is everything between drinks. I'm keen on a new bike but just keep putting it off because I cannot decide 😅 Luv how you mod your bikes , cheers 🍻 for sharing
To be honest I’m really disappointed that KTM hasn’t released a full size electric bike yet. I will probably sell my E-XC soon to be able to buy a 300. I really like my bike but I can’t ignore that it’s holding me back. Hopefully I will be able to buy a electric in the future that actually is in par with the 300.
@@sweetwolfasmraudio6726 ”proper line” is not the problem. You can see the issue in this clip, first 15s. Steep uphill with full throttle, my friends on gas powered bikes gets air at the top. I’m not a heavy rider either, 85kg in total. th-cam.com/video/xhRyuTGol04/w-d-xo.html
I want an internal combustion engine. The noise is part of the experience, the hit and the feel. The electric bike is way to....sanitized. Hard pass. I dont care how good it is.
@@manup1931 oh bullshit. On a mx track noise doesn't matter, on a large public riding area a reasonably silenced bike is fine. Maybe if you are on someones private land then maybe. But people who dont like bikes willl still complain about tearing up the ground, or killing plants. They will say an electric bike will sneak up on people and scare them or whatever. There will always be a reason for the haters to whine....leaving trash... whatever. Getting rid of traditional bikes will not "save" riding areas. I have been dealing with this basic argument since the 70s. Get out and support riding areas. write congressman etc.. I dont want an e-bike, never will.
I grew up on 2 and 4 strokes. Never had an chance to ride an electric. When I first rode an 3 wheeler, I kept running over my feet. Just like anything there both are cons and pro's to everything. I love your comparison. The biggest thing electric has is no noise. But I can't see it out performing gas. Now take someone that rides just electric they wouldn't like gas. Two different bikes completely. Long live riding no matter which bike you choose. Me I love 2 strokes. THAT'S just me.
Riding hard enduro is another discipline that would be cool to compare. The range would be a huge factor, having a clutch is another. When I have ridden with electric dirt bikers in extreme terrain, it seems they are spinning their rear wheel a lot without having a clutch to modulate their traction. The future is electric, we aren't close to it yet though. 5 years hopefully?
@Grant Bowen For sure! The clutch is absolutely key for hard enduro riding. The electric motor puts out so much torque and without a clutch, it lights the rear wheel up when you start to lose traction. Have you seen the Electric Motion bikes? They have a clutch and works really well in hard enduro type terrain.
@@ElectricCycleRider I have, they look awesome and they have a good presence in Hawaii but not on Kauai. I have a gasgas Raga 280 we ride on our super tech trails and a Beta Xtrainer which is new.
In which situation would you need a clutch on a electric bike? It has torque from zero rpm, so there’s no need to rev. No offense I’m just curious where you would need the clutch.
@Shift Gears Drink Beers For sure! I might have to do something like that. Not having a clutch in technical terrain is a big disadvantage, especially when you start losing traction. The power from the electric motor quickly breaks the rear tire loose when you lose traction in hill climb and slow technical situations. Thanks for the note.
@@ElectricCycleRider What if you just added some kind of traction control device. Granted that will never work in every situation, like when you want to spin the rear wheel to throw dirt on someone! I'm guessing a mode switch to vary how much spin it allows or maybe even one that can learn.
Put a t piece in and have a foot brake and hand brake.i used to work with these and always wanted to do that .foot left turn and hand brake right . Happy days 😜
@Carlo Believe the decision was made for weight savings. The heavier these eMotos get, the more inefficient. An easy place to save weight is in the suspension department.
Cause you didn’t have your foot brake and you reserve yourself with electric ⚡️ because it’s quick and quiet . I bet you could be faster with more time . Nice bikes !
If this is a fuel-injected 2-stroke it seems there would be no need (or not as much need) for a tuned exhaust pipe. I suppose it still helps to have that exhaust suction timed to help evacuate the cylinder.
I have no intention to get another dirt bike but that 300…so sick! I’m curious how much the foot brake would help your lap times on the free ride. Hope you are well, Tucker!
I look at it this way, the amount of times I have had to say no to going out with the lads for a day because my bikes need a service, piston/rings, blah blah, or they are broken and i need money to fix them etc etc. I am leaning towards an electric bike more and more just to have more time on the bike/fun with less maintenance.
Maybe, but I think that for offroad, power really isn't the main thing. It's mostly the powerband. And those two bikes differ a lot in powerband. For an electric, powerband is almost the same for anything between 2-3km/h to top speed. You are rarely achieving top speed off road...
Good video, it would be cool to see the freeride in some technical terrain to see how it copes with rocks, roots, mud and hills. I rode with one guy on a '19 freeride thru some pretty mellow technical terrain and it did not do too well, that might have been rider error tho. Another issue with the ebike is the re-buildability, (TPI too for that matter). Electronic wizardry is great till something breaks, then its got to go the shop, or worse. For the time being i'll stick to burning gas.
I’m excited to see a manufacturer come out with a real e bike with a properly functioning clutch, gears, and more range so it can actually be ridden and manipulated the way it needs to be on real trails. The example here is nothing like I ride, your test loop would be considered the access to the actual trail lol.
all that is just too much hassle, why would you complicate going faster or slower with gears clutch and such, this bike just need to have stronger battery stronger engine and lighter weight
@@user-uw3fi2zg4t Because half the fun of riding any motorcycle is cycling through the gears yourself. To anyone that doesn't understand, it's probably because they just haven't rode a real motorcycle but only scooters. It's a good rewarding feeling you can only get on one
@@ethanswisher7942 - Every time I ride my Sur Ron, I want to be shifting it. It really only needs 2 gears, as you can never get these things to go very fast if you have them geared for off ride. A simple 2-speed gearbox would only add about 10 lbs, and wold make these bikes WAY more versatile, not to mention adding significant range.
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A couple of things I'd like to point out. Where I usually ride in Southern Oregon, it's much tighter and steeper with more rocky terrain. Think more hard enduro/trials, 8 miles takes us 2 hours or more not including break time in some of the areas. Also the group I've been riding with are all in our mid 60's. So 3-4 hours is about all we can handle. The group includes a 2021 EM Escape, Two guys on 2020 Freeride E s, a heavily modified Sur-Ron & me on my modified 2010 Zero MXE. Which BTW with the battery I built goes farther (runs longer) then any of the bikes in the group. And weighs 140lbs. I've ridden 3 hours and the Freeride E will still have 60% of it's battery in this type of terrain. But if I go to say Reno, NV and ride desert then much shorter ride time (range) of course. Now one of my friends after getting and riding his Freeride E has sold his 300 XC, Husky 150 & his KTM 500 EXC. So much less maintenance. Just plug and play for the most part. So I guess my point is depending on your age (imagine yourself at 68 years old) on tighter more technical trails then the electrics become much more attractive and the range is not as much is any of an issue. I haven't ridden either of my YZ's in months LOL. Tucker, thank you for all you do on your channel.
@Neal Peters Thanks for the note Neal! Sounds like you've got an awesome group to ride with, hope to make it out that way sometime. That 2010 MXE you have is quite a rare bike at this point! 👍
@@ElectricCycleRider Yes and I have a 2009 XE with a 48v pack I made that's 2.9kwh. My 2010 MXE battery is 3.1kwh @52v.
Thank you for your insightful comment! I'm curious about the Electric motion escape since I'm on my way to buy one. I usually only ride very tehcnical (low speed) stuff in the forest and in the mountains, and because of that it's my main choice since it seems like the most nimble bike with decent range out of the box. A "pure" dirtbike is what I have used before and it feels very big and heavy for the type of riding I do. Going tha same path I have more fun on my little 14inch wheeled 125cc four stroke pitbike just because it's so much more nimble compared to the fullsize Honda 250f, ktm 450 etc that I have ridden before. How do you see it from your perspective who sees all the e-bikes bikes togheter? Does the Escape or maybe the epure seem like a good choice for what I am doing?🤔. Best regards from Sweden.
@@Negern91 If you have ridden a trails bike, the Escape will feel right at home. For me some bar risers and maybe a different bend would be helpful. I'm 6'2". Also some more seat padding. Check out the video on that at the YT page mentioned here. If you haven't seen this YT channel then it's a must for that bike. th-cam.com/channels/L-Ez0zEskCZKb-AzsUmI7g.htmlvideos. As a side note. Range in mixed tight single track and flowing two track is about as follows. KTM 25 miles with 5 miles of reserve, Sur-Ron & EM Escape 20 miles with 5 miles of reserve & my Zero MXE 30 miles 5 miles of reserve. Obviously if riding aggressive MX or desert high speed with hills run times would be much less.
@@shredmas This is super helpful to me, I really really appreciate the time you took to write a thorough answer! Thanks alot!
Imagine riding for 45 minutes and then your day is over
With the seats they have lucky if you can even ride that long I like the old school bike seats nice and soft
I know what you mean we used to fill it up and ride for 5 hours back in the day late 80 ties
Bring more petrol.
@@ehilter for the generator to charge the bike for the next 10 hours?
@@t_c5266 Either that, ride closer to where there is electricity, get a second battery or don't pick an electric bike for conditions it's not (yet at least) suitable for.
Can we see a comparison that's isn't about how fast you do a lap? Like what compare hill climbs, sections of hard trail ect to see what the electric can do, or even do better than the 300 ? Also I've noticed that you end up going alot faster on an electric than you notice because your brain is used to hearing revs
Have both a 300 tpi and a 350 freeride. The nimblenes of the freeride is awesome. Alot eazyer to ride in tight terrain and way more fun to ride slow.
@@pjmr666 and no shifting - that has to count for something
Plus going the distance!
No. Next question.....jk!
I wish
I’m just amazed e is able to talk through this much of a ride.
I have a 2021 300 XCW and love it. Added a TSP kit with ECU remap and really like the torque increase across the powerband. Best dirt bike I've ever owned.
@Ladd Johnson Awesome, I'll check that out. They're great dirt bikes for sure.
i got an 07 300 xc carb life baby 😂 love it tho 165 jet for winter and 162 for summer
I love smashing through the gears and the noise can't beat that
@Dean Desautels There is still something to be said for the feel you get on a gas bike, without question!
I'm in lockdown here, so I just enjoyed going for a 20 minute ride with you. I currently ride a 350EXCF which is think is the perfect 'old man's bike'. I'm just waiting until the range of the e-bike matches my own endurance as I get older!!
I have to agree the electric is appealing to me but the range is not so much for an older rider that likes to go distance not technical.
@Nicholas Maill Thanks! Hope you're out of that lockdown and riding now.
go out you sheep
Very thorough test. Thank you. The fact that you were within 3 seconds says alot about the ebike!
@eli hamou No doubt! Thanks for the note.
2019 tx300 with Lectron Carburetor is only 217lbs. Love mine. No hiccups, can still adjust my fuel ratio.
Great video definitely love my 300 aswell
@Dirt Bike Repair Definitely! The Lectron carbs are a great mod, keeps the bike simple and seem to run great. 👍
Fantastic comparison. I’m 53 and been riding dirt bikes from 4 years old. I love riding 500 2 stroke & 450 4stroke bikes. Very different but both have their pluses and bonuses. You are not biased towards either bike in this. There’s a lot of that with 2 stroke and 4 stroke bikes. They are all dirt bikes. Great fun to ride and that’s what it’s all about. Everyone who love dirt bikes should just love them for the riding. Each one different in their own way. I have always hated the thought of electric bikes but electric is clearly easier to ride. Very fast too. I would always miss the smell,sound and power band of conventional combustion bikes though. You’re a pro on these vids. Great riding too. We’ll done you. Thanks for making a proper comparison video. You can’t do this with 2 separate riders. 💪💪
No mixing gas, no dirty power valve to chip clean, and no oil changes. Sounds awesome.
@john barton Those are definitely some of the positives to electric dirt bikes!
you dont mix gas on a tpi anyway
Theory and practical application are two different things.
Make a race on a real motocross track with a little water. After 10 mn your electric bike will say "Thank you, i go home. Have you power to reload for next race ?".
Electrics bikes are here for fun on little tracks and short races.
Never , nerver they will beat a 250 4 strockes on a 25 mn race.
If you increase battery , you will have weight problem and money problems.
Can you imagine an electric bike on a 450 mxgp ? They don't have the energy for a race.
Power valve to clean ? You have to clean them less 1 time each year or the problem is not here. You clean them when you change the piston, nothing else.
You are not green ! You make a race.
Replacing a battery pack each year is not fun for money.
Used to have a KTM 420 and with those straight seats, my inner thighs would be killing me from squeezing the seat all day. But it was always worth it!
i just built an electric bicycle that has pretty big power at 120v at 22ah, or 72v at 44ah, or 44v at 66ah. i freaking love it, and it still looks like a bicycle so i can blend in or hit trails like the one in the video. love this stuff
I love 💘 how impartial your reviews are. It's a very rare trait on TH-cam.
Impartial? Ive never seen a bigger KTM schill in my life lol
Yes but ktm are the best all round quality handling and power.
lmao
@@Madtigertv whats better i have ridden ktm for a long long time and its not just because ktm is my initials, ha ha .
@Phil Barrett Thank you! 👍
I own a 2007 KTM 300 (beast), a 2023 Rieju MR 300 and a KTM e-XC. The E bike is up to the task in almost every situation except for brutal power. I really, really love the rear brake on the hand. Another beautiful thing is that other people in the forest dont look mad at you. Obviously, for masive adrenaline, a 300 2T is unbeatable. But the E-bike is surprisingly good and fun. I really enjoy the 3 bikes. Greatings from Spain. Very good videos.
I avoided an accident yesterday on a narrow trail because I heard a guy coming on his motorcycle and I was able to pull my atv over enough so that he could see me as he came around the corner and he was going pretty fast. If he was on an electric I would not have heard him.
People will transition to wearing 360 degree strobes on their helmets. And possible some type of siren. WHEN everyone is riding elecetric(in ten years or so) This issue will not be an issue. It will work itself out.
Maybe a Bluetooth app of some sort is the answer
Or keep the gassers way better in my opinion can’t beat the sound of a 2t
It won't work itself out it will just give e bikes a bad name same as motos have now. It's not the bike being a d--k head its the rider and e bikes already attract lets say another level of dumb f--k. I ride mtb and ktm 200 and know a few ebike riders and all are fu---ing stupid how they ride, how fast they go past people and there sever lack of skill .
As a mainly street rider, I haven't looked into off-road riding in years. I just found this yesterday! Wow! Where have I been...
I grew up I the NW on Enduro bikes. I recently got a DR-Z400SM to bridge the gap back to some off-roading. That said, I was also surprised in the results. I though the electric with its quick torque would have done better. The 300 is most certainly made of a much more open track, where it can be opened up into its power range.
It will be fun someday to go to a race and only here the whine the electrics tearing up the track!!!!
@Cygnus Great points! 👍
I enjoyed your test. While the electric free ride seem to perform quite well in a three minute loop I’m not sure what was really proven here? The 300 is a full on competition race bike. The free ride is not it is for free riding. That being said I’m quite surprised how close it was to the 300 in your test. I think it says much more for your riding ability and the tightness of the track than it does for a bike comparison.
My question to you is if you had an hour just to go mess around on a motorcycle having fun not trying to ride fast just enjoying riding which bike would you choose?
In that scenario what kind of range have you seen?
Thanks again for your tests as I appreciate them!
@Tom Bledsoe Thanks! Not really much to prove in this video honestly. Just my own curiosity between the two bikes. That's a great question about which bike I'd prefer to ride. I think it would depend on the day. I do switch between the 2T, 4T and E pretty regularly and I love them all for their own characteristics. I don't mean to take the easy way out of your question but it would depend on the day and the terrain for me. If I could only own one bike though, I would definitely stick with the 300 at this point. Appreciate the note 👍
I Recommend the Coober ECU on your 300.I have a 2021 300 and wow, it really improved throttle response. You’re gonna love it.
@silver vine68 Awesome, I will check them out! Thanks for the heads up.
@@ElectricCycleRider I did the sliber turbo ECU mapping with an s3 head on my 21 gasgas ex300 and have similar comments. It makes the bike run far stronger and cleaner across the board, no pipe bang, lean sputter and I barley use map 1 now on mtn trail riding.
@@cbc76am Awesome, I'll check it out.
The future is closer than we think! I took a 2021 Zero XF 7.2kWH dual-sport on a too brief demo ride that was only 7 city miles - no offroad (ugh) on Oct 30, 2021. That bike had 21" and 18" laced wheels, 78 ft-lb of torque and 46HP (34kW). That much torque and HP on that small bike is amazing, so hold on really tight! Showa 41mm iinverted cartridge forks, fully adjustable (FA), Showa 40mm piston FA shock, Bosch brakes. The lighter 3.6kWH version of the FX weighs 247 lbs wet but the 7.2 kWH version that I rode weighs 289 lbs wet and cost about $11,600. **** Comparing: the KTM Freeride has WP 43mm FA inverted forks and a WP FA rear shock which also features adjustable high speed compression! The motor offers 31 ft-lbs and 24HP (18kW max), the bike is 247 lbs wet. With importation costs rising every day since April 2020 (pandemic related supply blockages greatly delay inbound shipping), the 2021 Freeride E-XC last year cost USA buyers about $11,200.
Seems Legit, 🙋🏻♂️Question is Though; If No One Car Hear You on the Trail ,Doesn’t this Make for Deadly Accidents ??? Loud Pipes Saves Lives.
A lot of the Time When Riding I can Hear the other riders before I see them and I am Aware they are around me and I can watch for them.
I love the Electric KTM and I’m Not a Hater, I just worry about the safety on the trails, it’s Quick and Quiet!!!
On the Flip Side, the Neighbours Won’t be Complaining about the Noise Anymore !!! Cheers and Thanks for the Review.
Great video. Awesome comparison. Though the E-XC is expensive now, once the range goes up i bet the price will come down and there will be a ton sold.
The number of additional riding places that could open up with E-Bikes owing to lack of noise really makes them a winner. New housing is encroaching on all the nearby riding places and threatens to shut them down. So instead of 1/2 an hour drive to the nearest MX track its more like 2hrs.
That electric bike is phenomenal....so smooth and quiet. The future is exciting. You can ride these practically anywhere and no one can hear you. Awesome. Also noticed that you weren't breathing as heavy riding the electric bike.
@Eastern YellowJacket For sure! Very true. Thanks for the note.
Another great video! Always fun to do back to back lap times between bikes! 2-strokes vs 4-strokes, 125's vs 350's vs 300's, and electric vs gas. Lap times are a great way to compare the overall performance of different bikes. I am still amazed that a Freeride which is a hybrid trials/woods bike with shorter woods focused suspension and chassis is so close in lap times and often in my comparisons a few seconds quicker than my gas powered bikes on a 3~7 minute trail loop. The KTM 300 2-stroke is such a well developed bike and the Freeride E-XC development was basically completed back around 2014 and the bike has changed little since. How do you measure the stealth factor and how cool it is to be in the woods on an quiet electric bike?:)
@mxengineer1 Thanks! For sure. It's fun to see how they stack up. As you know, the stealth factor on the E-XC is unbeatable! 👍
Wow I’m surprised too, to me it seemed like you were same speed basically on both bikes in the tight stuff, but on the straights the E seemed to be going a lot faster. It so awesome that E bikes have evolved into competitive with top tier gas bikes, and surly that trend will continue. I’ve been bikeless for far too many years now and am looking to get back on one, tbh I don’t know how they compare price wise and that’s a big issue for my budget. I’m going straight to google after this to learn the specs on Freeride and pricing vs my old standard YZ250 2 stroke which I’ve had a few from 87, 94 and a couple 2000+. 94 was my favorite, probably because I put the most money into it. Really fantastic video though, you have a new sub, thank random algorithms lol.
I avoided this comparison for a while because the uploader is ‘Electric Cycle Rider’ - I’m not interested in a biased review. That being said, other than stating that the track is ‘tight’ (not even remotely in my world) I thought it was a good comparison. The electric bike looks like a blast to rip around on and he is making what looks to be better time. The elephant in the woods is the Freeride is built light and not near as tough as a regular Dirtbike.
I like your video, I am a 50yo A enduro/hare scramble rider. Huge fan of the KTM300, but rode a sur ron the other day and had a blast. I have no time for hate, I love them all and finding how to go fast on a particular machine is fun. If electric ever has the range to run an enduro and I am faster on it, then that's what I'll race. For now I think that freeride would be a great backyard track bike with the right suspension setup.
@Jean Lavallee Awesome to hear that! We're all just trying to have fun on 2 wheels at the end of the day and they're all great bikes for their own reasons. It's fun to test the bikes and see where they shine but we like them all. You're absolutely right, the Freeride E-XC is a great backyard track bike.
It's funny what people "feel" in terms of how fast they are vs what the objective times actually say. Similar to this test I have heard a number of people say they "felt" faster on the track with their 2 stroke bike but the lap times showed they were actually faster on their4 stroke...that's why we need to trust data and not opinion.
Some more interesting data that you could add would be Heart Rate, Perceived Fatigue post riding each, any arm pump or other physical differences, dba levels and just general audio from 100 yds away (have a buddy film you going through different sections since this is becoming a MAJOR driving force with dirt bikes in and around residential areas), actual run time capacity (30 min? 1 Hour?), what about letting the motor cool between battery swaps (if that's even a thing), Weight differences, Center of mass.....Super cool to see the actual riding and hear the lap time differences, but I'd love to hear more about the perceived effort comparison and the HR data. Thanks, vids are rad!
So good. Thanks for doing. Measure avg heart rate next time. I suspect it's the lack of noise being less fatiguing and thereby lowering heart rate.
@Mark Spoor For sure 👍
Thanks for doing the test. The electric probably feels much quicker because it had low down grunt and punch. Can't wait to get range on an electric so I can add that to videos I make.
Much respect, keep doing what your doing!
@Twisted Trigger Appreciate it! We can't wait too!
20 minutes on Full Tilt Boogie
I love the sound on the ebike whining up - Thanks man!
Fun! I’m not gonna buy one but I’ve been watching the tech evolve and enjoying people’s reactions to the electric bikes. I Love the KTM 300. Thanks for the vid, good info.
I'm 60 and rode for like 11 years from 82 to 93, but haven't ridden in about 28 years. But I could see if I ever did decide I wanted to ride that an electric enduro bike would probably be one of the most appealing. Granted I'm saying this having only ridden gas powered bikes. My list in order was XL250, XT550, Saber700, XT650, Shadow750. The Sabre was the only one I bought new! It was probably also the only one that had an engine as I imagine an electric motor is, damn that thing was smooth even at 11k rpm! Sold the Shadow a few months before my first child was born at my wife's request. Luckily I hated that bike so it kinda made it an easy decision. It had straight pipe and I hated the noise, and for a "smooth" V-twin it shook worse than what I remembered the thumpers doing!
Ebikes will be great for those of us in areas where riding is frowned upon
I definitely agree about the foot brake. It’s worked for decades, and I see no reason to change it. It would be a big problem for me also.
Have you ever thought about how much easier it is when you have to stop on a steep and rocky hill, and you can't get your right foot up on the brake pedal because you need that foot for balance, so you end up sliding back with no rear brake? With the rear on the left hand, never an issue. Plus the slow-speed torque of an electric allows you to slowly power out of that exact situation without spinning the rear wheel.
@@mountainflyhigh Exactly. Handbrake is definitely superior, it's just that everyone is so used to footbrakes and also engine sounds. In time, these things will definitely change.
Great test thanks! I look forward to the day the range is not an issue.
@His Eminence Same here!
I’m not a dirt bike rider, but I have races mountain bikes and cyclocross, so I’m no stranger to this kind of terrain, but I’m still astounded by the speed I’m seeing at 2:40 . It looks like you’re doing at least 45 mph, perhaps much more. Great suspension, indeed!
Are you getting paid to say this?
@@MiddlePark
No, I’m honestly impressed with this. Sure, there may be other riders who are much better, but that doesn’t mean that this isn’t impressive.
I had to watch or more accurately 'listen' to your ride on the 300 two stroker. I only heard you shift twice most of the time. It seems like the power of the new 2 stroker fuel injected bikes has the same power as a four stroker. But then again I'm an old guy from what you guys refer to as the 'vintage two stroke days.' Incredible, we'd have to be on the pipe within an 800 RPM range and shifting all the effing time to do what you're doing. Very cool
I have the same 300 as the one in this video and it is like a four stroke and two stroke rolled into one bike .
@@motoriderguy3854 AMAZING. Keep in mind I've never ridden a water cooled dirt bike! LOL Old school or 'vintage' as you guys like to say. Sounds like a great marriage of two and four strokers!
@@markkitaoka8783 well you need to ride one , they have so much torque that most of the time I'm not even on the pipe and it just keeps pulling up hills . I had a 250 before this , same as the 300 only different motor , its crazy how much different they run . Peace .
@@motoriderguy3854 soon as you said on the pipe I was sold. I own a Zero DSR and that thing is ALWAYS on the pipe.
@@markkitaoka8783 For sure! @Motoriderguy38 is right, the 300 has tons of torque, weighted flywheel, counterbalancer and allows you to lug it down low and build RPM. I've owned a lot of 125's and even the modern ones, you need to be shifting constantly. Not the case on the modern big bore 2T!
Cool video. The electrics have potential for riding in the Rockies because people are very noise sensitive in the mountains. But, like you said, range is not there yet. For my group rides, riders carry enough fuel for 80 miles and we drop fuel if needed, or transfer to a gas station for a refill. On that same terrain I'd like to see you throw in a lap time for a 450 XCF or FX. I ride with guys on the TPI's. On the technical tighter trails they have the advantage. On faster trails the new 450's with a Rekluse dominate.
@MogulFarmer For sure! The 4 strokes are great in the wide open terrain. Hope we'll see some battery improvement soon.
The brakes would have been no big deal to me, since I already mountain bike. Liked the sense of thrust that the ebike had, and as an adrenaline hippie, liked that it was quiet.
Had you had a foot brake on the Free Ride you may have well been quicker. My question is would the Free Ride be good for 20-25 miles of trail riding? I'm 63 so I'm not asking about race speeds. I have a 2007 300 XC-W and only get above 3 gear when I'm headed back to the truck. The appeal of electric to me is the lack of needed maintenance. No more pistons, barrels, cranks, clutches, gears, gas, oil. We already have to replace tires, chain, sprockets, brakes, but the plug in and charge and go ride on the weekend really looks to be ideal for me. LOL, provided I can afford one.
And can survive the walk back when you run out of range.
Awesome video! No need to apologize, super interesting test!
For me the biggest difference is with a gas bike I can't ride it without the police being called. With electric I can ride at any time, even at midnight if I wanted and nobody would care.
I'd expect there will also be indoor motocross parks in the future where electric bikes could be used indoors during the winter since they have no emissions. Heck, they could even be in a city.
@gear323 For sure! Great points.
The EV doesn’t seem exciting to ride, the 2 stroke is music to the ears and has a nice power to keep you engaged.
@David Cruz There is definitely more to feel on the 2T.
I could care less about lap times. I want to see how the Freeride does on technical single track and hard enduro terrain, big rocks, switch backs, huge log hops, that's more of what both of these bikes are designed for.
@stupidmoto Noted. We'll see if we can put that together. Thanks for the suggestion.
Awesome comparison! I’ve been looking for this for a long time so thanks for churning it out! Regarding lap times, E bikes are the newcomer but two stroke dirt bikes have been optimized over the past 60 years! In five years I’m sure they’ll be trick new electronics on electric dirt bikes that will blow away what we have today.
I doubt it. For an electric to be competitive in this market its gotta be light, powerful enough, and enough battery life (especially if competing in single track, enduro scene) all in 1 package. I font see that for dirtbikes in the foreseeable future
@@SL4US battery will never work offroad brother too long to charge range etc thats why 100 years ago they stop making battery cars. Im not sure why they starting this bs again.
in 5 years they're gonna completely forget the idea of an electric dirtbike They cant ever be properly optimized to compete in motocross Do you know how much they refuel during long race events?
@@MRALEX9870 And why not doing the refueling by swapping the battery?
one thing about a foot brake is many years ago I put a recluse auto clutch on my bike which I did lots of hill climbing in the foothills and lack of footbrake made it hard to turn bike around on a super steep hill if you did not make it and having rear wheel freewheeling , I also had trouble initially reaching for rear brake first after many years of riding I could not break that habit .
Keep being curious, unless ur racing, those times are close. Love ur video content thank you
@Aaron Kent Thanks Aaron! Close times for sure. We'll keep trying.
I’m impressed so far all ktms are amazing hands down the best bikes
noise plays so much into riding, not at all surprised you would be more composed on the electric, i recall driving damn near under the speed limit anytime id ride without earplugs in lol
Can’t beat the 300 two stroke man that’s a beast . Good video man I like both bikes just like the 300 more
I have a ktm 2016 freeride 250R and it rips. My dad is just learning on a 2021 ktm E-XC. I always get scared when were trailriding because I can't hear him behind me hahaha. I always gotta tail him!
Great job showcasing both platforms. I purchased a new 2022 300 xcw and was very impressed with the suspension and power delivery for single track. I have not ridden an E-XC, but as you pointed out the power delivery is instantaneous and linear. I actually like a little bit of engine braking in the xcw, so that I can time my throttle responses with tight cornering and transitions. I think the two biggest hurdle for the E-XC in popularity is the battery life for long rides, and the psychological acceptance of speed without the noise of a combustion engine.
I gave up on reaching for the brake. Just got too dangerous on the jumps. Then I'd hop back on the gas bike and reach for the brake on the handlebar 🤦♂️ Really love having the Freeride in my stable.
@John Howerton Haha! That's how it goes! Yup, I do too.
I wish there was somewhere to go just ride these. I put a dirt bike into a ditch and got hurt decades ago missing a shift, never been on a dirt bike since. Sur Ron is really appealing but would love somewhere controlled to go just test and compare. Sounds like a spendy business start up.
Still waiting for the Storm Bee from you. It has been on sale in Russia for a long time and there are many reviews. But a direct comparison with KTM Freeride E-XC in the hands of a motocross pro is more interesting. I hope someone will offer you it for review...
This!!!!!
Sur Ron really need me to get one in his hands pronto. The big Bee isn’t on sale here in the US yet, but they’d be smart to get one to him and eveRide.
@Kzakkttixx For sure! We've been talking with Sur Ron about it for many months. Hopefully we'll get one sent over from China soon because we too would love to do this comparison!
@@bradleylandWe hope so soon!
Excellent review as always!
@NorthSanDiegoRC Thanks 🙌
As a mountain biker who came to motorcycles late, i will LOVE 2 handbrakes.
But the rear brake is left and not right☝🏻
@@venkmanny4100 Give me an Allen key and 10 minutes
@@MrMrMckinley gotta change the hoses, not the levers😉
@@venkmanny4100 Give me an Allen key and 30 minutes
@@MrMrMckinley 😅👍🏻
Curious how an Alta would have compared. My guess is that bike would give you the best lap times in this track.
Depending on the model, I believe the altas are a lot heavier then both of these bikes. Making it harder to handle on this style of track compared to the lighter ktm’s anyway.
@@antssta You bring up a great point. I've ridden the Alta a bit on this track and do feel the extra weight on the tight stuff. At higher speeds, it would be no match though.
@@ElectricCycleRider yer definitely they weight would help track in a straight line through the bumpy roller type stuff all day! Single trail flicking and log jumping is something else on even a slightly modified SurRon 🙂
Good pace you are running there.
The electric looks quick when is is smooth and it can put the power down. My guess is the limiting factor is the suspension on the Freeride, even though Brian/FFO had his way with it. The OEM units on the XC-W are very good out of the box, and a lot better than the modded Freeride units, allowing you to attack bumps and hack more aggressively on the 300. Judging by my buddy's new bike, the new XC-W suspension is plush and absorbent but not way too soft like past XC-Ws I have ridden.
I am impressed by the performance of the Freeride though, that bike is no fooling around. I could see being happy on an electric, particularly has I toddle off into the sunset years of riding career. Definitely gravitating to shorter distances, but tighter more technical trails, as crashing at speed when one is over 60 sucks. Currently on a '18 300 XC with a Lectron and an S3 head that I love lots, but at some point it will be overkill for me.
Electric bonus, one could get away with urban hooliganism a lot easier on an quiet electric bike. Always wanted the street legal Alta for that purpose. City enduro anyone? ;)
@Craig Hoffman You're absolutely right. The suspension is a big difference between these two bikes. Pros and cons for sure. Thanks for the note 👍
Forgot one thing: 2strome ice bikes have less and less spots allowing them to ride on while the electric won’t see any spots closed to them because of the noises.
Just that would be a big factor in me buying
Enjoyed the video comparison. And thanks for not adding any soundtrack. Braap braap. Electric is catching up to gas for sure and much easier to just store, charge and go.
Nice bro that’s a great review and thank you. I still have my 2015 it only has 10,643 miles and 741 hours. I’ll trade up with a TPI 300 at 1,000 hours.
It might not seem accurate to compare 300 2T with Freeride but in fact there is a huge market of weekend riders like myself who are constantly mocked for not upgrading to 300 2T and still riding 125's/150's 2T and as much as I would advice someone who just starts riding off road to start on two stroke, my next suggestion would be to go electric, not bigger especially if that person would like to remain on path of weekend/fun rider.
I know that electric vehicles in general are expensive plus there is not really any competition for KTM now on market but I hope prices will drop soon enough for me and many other riders to go for electric dirt bikes. We don't want to break the bank on our bikes since we ride several weekends in year.
Range is not problematic when you can't really ride for a full day and with time you can always get another battery but in general 3-4 hours is often enough for most of us to charge our batteries and leave our stresses on track/trail.
There is also one huge advantage of electric motorcycle - park it for four months in your garage, then just charge your battery, pump your tires and go for a ride. Try to leave your gas motorcycle unattended for that or even longer and than take if for a day of riding. It almost always ends up bad.
There is a huge potential in electric dirt bikes and market is already there.
@meniver Thanks for your perspective, you make some valid points!
Stumbled across this video and want to preface that I have no experience with these bikes. However, I went to an arena once to watch them race. Part of the excitement was hearing the roar of the engines. What's the communities take on the electric bike and do you think the lack of engine noise would take away from the fan experience?
My personal opinion is that I like the sound of the engines and think I'd prefer it to an all electric bike race.
The Freeride is one interesting thing for an enduro. So much more to come.. i always find it kinda interesting that there isn’t much interest in development of the bikes and stuff for them.
I think the electric is bad ass for a lot of reasons but for some reason I think the overall experience seems way more rewarding on the gas powered machine
@nicefish10 Pros and cons for sure.
Electric is junk
These videos are fantastic. Thank you!
@Tanner Janesky Thanks! 👍
The power difference is so crazy between the two though. The Free Ride coming in at just around 25 horsepower at the rear tire. Then the 300 is over 55hp at rear tire. Electrics going to get there one day
You can easily get a more powerful electric motor, the problem is it needs a bigger, heavier battery to run it.
On dirt, especially at low speed, there's a limit to how much power is usable, it's limited by traction, so the extra horsepower is really only useful on the faster, open bits.
the 2 stroke noise jacks you up n speeds your heart up.
Thanks for amazing video.I've never driven a dirt bike. That is on my bucket list. Pros which I see for electric one. 1)silence-my background is MTB, I love sport and sounds of nature.
2)I don't like mechanics, and what I've founded with dirt bikes, after couple moto hours you have to change oils.
Or maybe it's not a big deal 🤔 .
1:33 So glad he said that. ❤
Hey bro on the electric bike just run the right hand brake for the rear and the left hand brake for the front it's kind of kooky but I think you might like it
I bet that fumbling for controls every once in a while makes up a few seconds per lap. I'm very interested in the upcoming crop of electric motorcycles and e-bikes like the new Segway Dirt eBike X260. I think it is hard for motorcycles to compete with how lightweight the new electrics are. Having ridden a heavy adventure bike off road vs a pedal powered mountain bike, lightness gives so much confidence.
The Sur Ron line of bikes looks awesome as well.
Especially when you get stuck in a bog
I cant get past how it sounds like a RC car lol whats the bike weigh and what is the range or hours it will run in single track ?
These tests you do are awesome mate and yes here in Australia 🇦🇺 distance is everything between drinks. I'm keen on a new bike but just keep putting it off because I cannot decide 😅
Luv how you mod your bikes , cheers 🍻 for sharing
To be honest I’m really disappointed that KTM hasn’t released a full size electric bike yet. I will probably sell my E-XC soon to be able to buy a 300. I really like my bike but I can’t ignore that it’s holding me back. Hopefully I will be able to buy a electric in the future that actually is in par with the 300.
I highly doubt your held back by power
@@sweetwolfasmraudio6726 It happens quite often, especially going uphill.
@@enforcer-enduro no matter the bike yoy need proper line choice and all
@@sweetwolfasmraudio6726 ”proper line” is not the problem. You can see the issue in this clip, first 15s. Steep uphill with full throttle, my friends on gas powered bikes gets air at the top. I’m not a heavy rider either, 85kg in total. th-cam.com/video/xhRyuTGol04/w-d-xo.html
@Fredrik Karlberg It's coming for sure. I love the E-XC but in many ways it's no match for the gassers.
I want an internal combustion engine. The noise is part of the experience, the hit and the feel. The electric bike is way to....sanitized. Hard pass. I dont care how good it is.
The noise is part of the reason, why this experience will be banned. So you should care.
@@manup1931 oh bullshit. On a mx track noise doesn't matter, on a large public riding area a reasonably silenced bike is fine. Maybe if you are on someones private land then maybe. But people who dont like bikes willl still complain about tearing up the ground, or killing plants. They will say an electric bike will sneak up on people and scare them or whatever. There will always be a reason for the haters to whine....leaving trash... whatever. Getting rid of traditional bikes will not "save" riding areas. I have been dealing with this basic argument since the 70s. Get out and support riding areas. write congressman etc.. I dont want an e-bike, never will.
I grew up on 2 and 4 strokes. Never had an chance to ride an electric. When I first rode an 3 wheeler, I kept running over my feet. Just like anything there both are cons and pro's to everything. I love your comparison. The biggest thing electric has is no noise. But I can't see it out performing gas. Now take someone that rides just electric they wouldn't like gas. Two different bikes completely. Long live riding no matter which bike you choose. Me I love 2 strokes. THAT'S just me.
@Franklin Linebarger Thanks for your perspective! We agree, long live riding no matter which bike you choose!
I would love to see a 360 cam mounted on the back of the bike. Probably not really practical but the third person view would look great
Riding hard enduro is another discipline that would be cool to compare. The range would be a huge factor, having a clutch is another. When I have ridden with electric dirt bikers in extreme terrain, it seems they are spinning their rear wheel a lot without having a clutch to modulate their traction. The future is electric, we aren't close to it yet though. 5 years hopefully?
@Grant Bowen For sure! The clutch is absolutely key for hard enduro riding. The electric motor puts out so much torque and without a clutch, it lights the rear wheel up when you start to lose traction. Have you seen the Electric Motion bikes? They have a clutch and works really well in hard enduro type terrain.
@@ElectricCycleRider I have, they look awesome and they have a good presence in Hawaii but not on Kauai. I have a gasgas Raga 280 we ride on our super tech trails and a Beta Xtrainer which is new.
5 x Enduro World Champion Samuli Aro was winner first class E enduro race in Finland.
What a difference in audio quality, I thought you were narrating post-video in the Freeride portion.
@JohnB I was surprised how much lower my HR was on the Freeride. Never realized it until this video.
Fantastic thanks for the footage
@Stephen Brown 👍
I'd be really interested to see a hard enduro comparison. How does an ebike do without a clutch?
In which situation would you need a clutch on a electric bike?
It has torque from zero rpm, so there’s no need to rev.
No offense I’m just curious where you would need the clutch.
@Shift Gears Drink Beers For sure! I might have to do something like that. Not having a clutch in technical terrain is a big disadvantage, especially when you start losing traction. The power from the electric motor quickly breaks the rear tire loose when you lose traction in hill climb and slow technical situations. Thanks for the note.
@@ElectricCycleRider Electric Trials bikes have a clutch for that reason, I will 100% go electric when the range is there
@@ElectricCycleRider What if you just added some kind of traction control device. Granted that will never work in every situation, like when you want to spin the rear wheel to throw dirt on someone! I'm guessing a mode switch to vary how much spin it allows or maybe even one that can learn.
Put a t piece in and have a foot brake and hand brake.i used to work with these and always wanted to do that .foot left turn and hand brake right .
Happy days 😜
why does the freeride not have the suspension of the bigger bikes? You say there are reasons for that, what are they?
@Carlo Believe the decision was made for weight savings. The heavier these eMotos get, the more inefficient. An easy place to save weight is in the suspension department.
You could make a dull brake system for the back. Keep the handle brake and ad the pedal as well.
Cause you didn’t have your foot brake and you reserve yourself with electric ⚡️ because it’s quick and quiet . I bet you could be faster with more time . Nice bikes !
If this is a fuel-injected 2-stroke it seems there would be no need (or not as much need) for a tuned exhaust pipe. I suppose it still helps to have that exhaust suction timed to help evacuate the cylinder.
I have no intention to get another dirt bike but that 300…so sick!
I’m curious how much the foot brake would help your lap times on the free ride.
Hope you are well, Tucker!
@Introvert Adventurer For sure!! Waiting on covid delayed parts still! Good to hear from you.
@@ElectricCycleRider you too! Thanks for making great vids!
Nice video 👍. I like foot brake’s too. I made one my moped back in the day’s.
It took a bit of welding I remember.
I look at it this way, the amount of times I have had to say no to going out with the lads for a day because my bikes need a service, piston/rings, blah blah, or they are broken and i need money to fix them etc etc. I am leaning towards an electric bike more and more just to have more time on the bike/fun with less maintenance.
17:21 half the power is a good reason
Maybe, but I think that for offroad, power really isn't the main thing.
It's mostly the powerband. And those two bikes differ a lot in powerband. For an electric, powerband is almost the same for anything between 2-3km/h to top speed. You are rarely achieving top speed off road...
Good video, it would be cool to see the freeride in some technical terrain to see how it copes with rocks, roots, mud and hills. I rode with one guy on a '19 freeride thru some pretty mellow technical terrain and it did not do too well, that might have been rider error tho. Another issue with the ebike is the re-buildability, (TPI too for that matter). Electronic wizardry is great till something breaks, then its got to go the shop, or worse. For the time being i'll stick to burning gas.
I’m excited to see a manufacturer come out with a real e bike with a properly functioning clutch, gears, and more range so it can actually be ridden and manipulated the way it needs to be on real trails. The example here is nothing like I ride, your test loop would be considered the access to the actual trail lol.
all that is just too much hassle, why would you complicate going faster or slower with gears clutch and such, this bike just need to have stronger battery stronger engine and lighter weight
@@user-uw3fi2zg4t Because half the fun of riding any motorcycle is cycling through the gears yourself. To anyone that doesn't understand, it's probably because they just haven't rode a real motorcycle but only scooters. It's a good rewarding feeling you can only get on one
@@ethanswisher7942 i understand, and i like it too but part of the fun of riding a horse is talking to him, it is just a different animal
@@ethanswisher7942 - Every time I ride my Sur Ron, I want to be shifting it. It really only needs 2 gears, as you can never get these things to go very fast if you have them geared for off ride. A simple 2-speed gearbox would only add about 10 lbs, and wold make these bikes WAY more versatile, not to mention adding significant range.
Great Video! Thanks for sharing.