Hi Chris,just finished watching you and Francis ride across Australia and I loved it.I live in Adelaide so was a bit familiar with.You are both amazing,thanks mate
emily, chris and jiimmy: any chance you would put the four hours out?! :) this episode was very nutritious and entertaining. thank you! a fellow fighter for the light here. holding that darkness back…. this HELPS.
Great chat with Chris Hall!! When you were having the discussion with Chris on why/how he made the career transition started to being up “all the feels”.. the mental health struggles, the feeling of not being there in a year was raw and real.. thank you to Chris for sharing that and thanks to Emily and Jimmi for having the idea to have Chris on and talk about it. And especially loved the chat about not having to finish everything.. it’s ok.. loved Jimmi’s question of “did you have fun?”, awesome! Thanks for doing what you all do!
My favorite part of the interview is the pictures shown at 24:13 of young Cade Media gang+Christ. Lovely chat, as usual. Chris seems like such a thoughtful, well-spoken person.
While there’s something about the manner of these guys I really like, even the smallest amount of research would help SO much… Manufacturers don’t like hookless rims because they’re lighter, they like them because they’re substantially easier and cheaper tor make. The hook on a hooked bead locks the rim into the mold so you have to use things like inflatable bladders. That’s their problem though, hookless is a bad idea for narrow road tires.
Hookless -Makes tires heavier by 25g each -Makes wheels lighter by 15g each. Maths no worky. Edit: 28mm gp5k clincher 235g vs 28mm S TR 280g is actually a much bigger difference than I had originally typed. So hookless forces a 45g heavier per tire. Let’s keep going: - tube =19g -30ml sealant =40g if I remember correctly.
@@markj.a351 And you can underline your statement with some examples? Whatever you think of hookless, Zipp eg made their wheelsets significantly, well, let's say more affordable. If they gave all their manufacturing savings to the costumer is of course a different question.
Bets on what's shorter? The amount of time for UCI to allow for disc brakes, a safety improvement; or time to act on hookless rims, an actual danger as-is.
I’m new to cycling. Could you please elaborate a little. Aren’t disc brakes already allowed by the uci? Or do you mean the time it took them to adopt them initially? Thanks :)
Well, Vittoria said De Gendt's tire came off because of damage to the rim from running over a rock, so from that statement it seems the crash may have had nothing to do with hookless rims. With that said, the UCI released this statement today: "In light of a series of recent incidents involving the use of hookless rims and tubeless tyres (a combination commonly referred to as hookless) in professional road cycling, the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) has decided to study the situation as a matter of urgency with a view to taking a rapid decision in the interest of rider safety. These measures will be communicated as soon as possible. The UCI shall continue to work closely with the stakeholders of cycling and equipment manufacturers to ensure that appropriate measures are taken both in the short and long term. This review and the decisions that will follow are part of the UCI's policy to promote rider safety, one of its major concerns."
@@petesjk, I'd love to see the data you've collected on this and see how it compares to the number of crashes due to "locked-up brakes" in the years when rim brakes were dominant. I also can't wait to read how you collected the data and how you determined the cause of the crashes. No doubt you used a robust scientific method and took great care to eliminate sampling bias and to be sure that your own bias didn't affect the results. Can you provide a link to the study you conducted and the large data sets you used?
@@robinseibel7540Right back at you, buddy. Do you have exhaustive detailed irrefutable body of evidence that disk brakes are safer in races, or are you just going by “personal experience “.
Not sure how you held it together there at battling pneumonia onwards. I had tears in my eyes and could see them in yours. Really good to see this honesty about life.
Yeah, I find it hard to believe that mechanics on a World Tour team don't know what their doing when it comes to tyre pressure. I have never ridden a hookless rim, don't own a pro level bike and have never worked as a mechanic - even I know not to exceed the recommended pressure on hookless rims.
@@Andy_ATB, do you really think that mechanics in a world tour team that are responsible for health of their riders by maintaining their bikes, can make such a mistake as not knowing how to use their sponsor equipment?
Fantastic show today. I've enjoyed watching Chris' stuff and as a suffering want to be endurance rider, I subscribed the, "I did not finish, but had a great time trying" about 5 yrs ago. Since I changed my attitude on that, I found as time went by, that I have been able to do longer rides and achieve more of my goals that I ever could before and enjoy my suffering on the bike. Mind over matter as my mother would say. I think most social media is a scourge on society, it's made too many fake people.
Road tyre tubeless inserts are popular on the World Tour, simply because, a puncture will not stop the rider and allow the team car to catch up to swap wheels.
They are also good to give confidence on fast descents... Whether tubeless or with inner tubes, a sudden blowout can be catastrophic and these inserts can in fact keep you out of the hospital (with hooked rims).
Most "tubeless ready" I've seen did have the rim tape in place? Just had to put in valves and sealant! As Chris said, they just don't want the sealant to dry out while the bike sits around a warehouse or a shop...
the issue here is the word 'ready'. its not till it is. i'm surprised consumer affairs (or whatever its called there) has allowed it to be termed that. it's deceiving.
When I purchased my 2021 TCR my mechanic helped me pick my carbon wheels for it. He told me to get "hooked" rims so I could have the widest options in tires and that he wasn't sold on the tech. being better. Plus I do not run tubeless as I am pretty quick and changing tubes and it doesn't bother me to do it. Now that I see and hear of tires popping of the rims I am happy with my decision to buy "hooked" rims. Thanks for another great show. Keep up the good work.
Our goals should be to have fun, and enjoy it. Some how the ultra competitiveness that many of us have felt with riding and racing for years and years have really messed some of us up. It can be a struggle to just enjoy the ride sometimes, something that I am definitely working on.
40:00 - This is an attitude that responsible scientists embrace all the time. If you conduct an experiment and you get a negative result (DNF in cycling), then you still publish your findings. They publish negative results constantly, because doing so allows others to avoid making the same mistakes.
Chris's experience of architecture seems quite similar to that of my wife. Went into it purely out of academic interest, completed all the training and worked for several years. It is unfortunately a very stressful and undervalued profession which is pitifully paid unless you want to sell out your soul to big developers. My wife did at least have one lasting and positive effect on the cycling world though, being the lead architect on Glentress Mountain bike centre. Now if only I liked MTBs rather than gravel and road...! 😆
I loved your discussion about finishing an event. I did my first AIDS Lifecycle ride in 2022 which is 7 days over 545 miles. You get to do the ride if you meet the fundraising limit. I was riding a recumbent trike and completed 60% of the miles and took one day off due to a bad sunburn and lack of sleep the night before. But I enjoyed the ride and the love from all the other 2500+ riders and roadies on the event. I'll be doing the ride again in June but this time on a surly bridge club 27.5 touring bike.
Chris is a real inspiration. Great having him on the show! Many congrats with the podcast by the way! I love tuning in and seeing how you grow into your new roles and create an entertaining listen & view. It is getting better every time.
it's like Chris Miller & Cade Media are fighting... same content... same thumbnails!... same audience.. i listen to both, and it's enjoyable to hear multiple takes.. but its getting funny how close the 2x weekly podcasts are. :D
I bet in the UK it's a lot easier to just flat out quit your job. You don't have to worry about breaking your leg, not having health care, and becoming homeless like we do here in the states.
i love hearing conservatives talk about how business friendly singapore is, not understanding that one of the best things singapore does for their local economy is housing everyone they can. it’s also a lot easier to take risks in business when you don’t have to worry about breaking your leg, not having healthcare, and becoming homeless
A bit harsh to criticise Halfords. The specification section of the bike on the website states the tyres are “tubeless ready” and describes the rims as “Boardman Tubeless Compatible (Tape, Valves and Sealant Required)”. I think that’s pretty clear isn’t it? Maybe an apology to Halfords is in order.
5:00 I hope they go on to highlight that this is rotating weight so these grams are significantly more important to a "road weenie" than 20-30g grams off a frame weight, for example.
19:40 not my idea but one I heard on why it could be: they take the place of another team that does try their best to always have enough riders to take part.
In a video, which I believe was the Eversting. I heard Chris say, " I know how to suffer and I will always do my best." He gained so much respect from me. I like to think I am in the same mindset. I am a United States Marine. We have a mantra which states "Embrace the suck!" I like to think that I don't turn away when the times are tough. When I decide to a personal challenge, I am not intimidated by the suffering. I look forward to the person I will be afterward. Regardless if I succeed in the challenge or not. I would rather attempt the challenge and fail, than not do the challenge at all. I am a process person and not a results person. And the journey is what I always value and remember , rather than the destination.
Disqualification because your team is too small: It's like every other sport. If you show up to a football game and you don't have enough players, you forfeit. This is because they don't want to have competitions where people aren't taking it seriously. Sure, for an amateur race it doesn't matter. For a professional race it matters. Imagine if the top teams said, "This race isn't so important to us, so we'll just send 1 or 2 token riders. We don't care if we win." It undermines the entire race. The rules for the number of riders is to protect the integrity of the race. That's it. The inflexibility is so that teams don't intentionally "bend the rules" because "we don't care about this race" and "want to just let some riders get some experience". It's literally to stop teams from doing that. If you have races with 5 riders, you need to travel with 6 or 7 so that you have spares. It's a professional race. It sucks if your team is too small or too disorganised to do that, but it's a professional race and these professional teams need to be at a certain minimum standard.
Great podcast. I thought the road foam inserts were to help keep the tyre on the rim. I bet the tyres are over pressured. Zipp tested a 28mm Goodyear tyre on an 808 rim that survived to 175psi (Cycling Plus Oct 2022).
Haha. Thomas de Gent finishing a stage does not really indicate that he is fine. He is one of the hardest riders in the peleton and doesn't often fail to finish a stage, similar to his near namesake Thomas de Geraint.
I think the thing about the rider shortage, is that if they were unable to start with the correct number, another team that does have the ability to compete, has been denied a spot. The organiser wants to ensure that the race is as competitive as possible.
80 kg and running 26c tires. Tire pressure calculators put me at 85 psi front and 87 psi rear for recommendations, even with tubeless. To say no one is running >73 psi with tubeless is absolutely wrong.
Regarding Hookless tyres: As a heavier rider my recommended pressure for 32c tyres is around 67psi but 30c is 74psi so I can't safely use 30c on hookless at the recommended pressures.
Yep, it might be ok for 60kg pro riders, but not for us bigger guys. And I'm not even talking overweight: I'm 194 and 85, and couldn't use hookless without extra-wide.
On the subject of tubeless, also worth noting that some tire brands have models where the aftermarket version is tubeless compatible, but the OEM (not available for sale) version is not. People see the tire model spec'd on a bike and assume it's the tubeless compatible version, but it's not. Always double check!
I’m running 80psi tubeless (and I’m sure many others are), as recommended by the Silca tire pressure calculator (total system weight of 200lbs on 28mm tires)
I’m running tubeless for the puncture sealing benefit. I’ve had many punctures on training rides that tubeless has successfully sealed. Tubes are also dangerous for blowouts, especially with latex tubes, if you install it quickly and pinch it between the rim bead and rim, it’ll blow off a few miles down the road (seen this happen multiple times) . As for the Silca tire pressure accuracy, I’m sure you could be right, I race p1/2 and used to run hookless at 65psi, but I often struck the rim on bumps (especially whilst cornering) so I switched back to hooks and increased pressure. I’m 175lbs
@@defsef9737 Personally, I look at the Silca calculator as being directional versus definitive - kind of a starting point, season to taste. Selected surface condition, speed, tire type, and measured tire width make a huge difference in the results. One item commonly overlooked item is measured tire size - right now I have two different sets of 28C tires mounted on different wheels - one measures right at 28mm, the other measures at 30mm.
Re the pro team fraud story, the thing I found stunning was the bans, especially the 2yr ban for the sports director which seemed overly harsh compared to what riders have received for far more severe infractions.
I was a tire designer & engineer for over 30 years and I can tell you Hook-Less wheels & tires are no different than playing Russian roulette with one bullet round in the chamber of a 6 shooter gun. Even if the manufacturer guarantees they will pay 100% of your emergency stay at an ICU and therapy recovery, !!!"DON'T DO IT"!!! The problem is in the bead circumference of the tire. The tire manufacturer can spec the bead circumference to exact specs till the cows come home. But the fact/problem is there are a ton of factors that will change that perfect circumference bead spec to be larger. Keep in mind tire beads are made of soft flexible materials. And just like a metal coat hanger if you flex it enough it will weaken and eventually break.. In this case just weakening the bead, plus cornering forces and the high speed centrifugal forces will push the weak bead over the rim's edge and cause a catastrophic loss of air, usually at high speeds. *FYI: If you're lucky, sometimes the tire bead is pushed just to the limit and will slip over the rim edge while the bike is just standing. Who ever came up with this bright idea..................... .... .. . Pls Stop.
Enjoyable podcast and well done for taking the time to talk about mental health. I would urge Chris and anyone else suffering with their mental wellbeing to get their testosterone levels checked, it’s a major problem for me because of a condition I now have to manage and live with, but it’s becoming increasingly common for levels to be closer to the low end of “Normal” even in people who have no underlying conditions and believe themselves to be healthy.
I dont run a insert on my road setup but for gravel the insert actually saved me multiple times. I cased on a tree root on single track with my gravel bike and I believe the inserts saved my carbon wheels.
I think the progress in aluminum/engineering as it relates to the cycling industry is more obvious in the MTB realm with companies like actofive, pole using cnc bonded 7075 aluminum, Banshee's Paradox hardtail with their machined/tuned dropout and yoke designs and Atherton bikes entering the alloy realm as well.
Saying a World Tour Mechanic is less educated than us regulars in these aspects is wild!!! Hookless is trash in road cycling, way less margins to handle, way less options for tires, you're literally narrowing yourself down your options with Hookless, no added benefits over a regular hooked wheel. The whole idea of Tubeless was that is was a simpler system with less materials in play but you need a heavier tire, the proper amount of juice depending on the tire, now you're adding a foam that with the added weight and the material composition directly affects the rolling resistance, it's just a gimmick for the sake of saying you have it.
Satisfaction , not fun, is perhaps more important and a better metric. Almost no-one does a triathlon to have fun. Few can probably have fun doing it. They are gruelling. Equally having fun on a ride isn't necessarily going to mean it was satisfying for you. Some people need to beat others, no doubt there's a lot of psychology you can do into that, but it's a competitive person. Others want to achieve a set distance, or time, or want to help another person finish, so even if they have 'fun' but that person doesn't finish then it isn't satisfying, hollow victory. As long as how and why you ride satisfies you then all power to you.
I think it's something to do with the tyre insert (airstrip). Maybe this increases the pressure when used. Or they've compensated with using a lower pressure, and when there was an impact, the insert has caused the tyre to blow off? ... interesting stuff
i liked what this guy is saying 6:12 teams appear to us as pro level they KNOW everything but they don't. i have hooked and hookless. my hooked wheels setup is at 75 psi, but my hookless is 55 psi, far far from max. having said that if pro teams switch away people will leave them behind.
Another excellent episode. Chris is a joy. I was reminded by his comment about the convivial nature of riding side by and the confrontational nature of facing each other (as he said you are during recording) that this is particularly a male experience (and, of course, very much cultural). If you watch two men having a friendly conversation they tend to stand shoulder-to-shoulder, more or less; whereas they will face each other if the conversation is confrontational. For women it is often the opposite: The failure to face each other is more aggressive and confrontational. Riding, of course, is best side-to-side :)
I think there is an argument for saying most confrontational arugments occur when people are facing each other. I'm not so sure you can you need to be facing the same way to usually have non confrontational conversations. Almost every cafe conversation i've had with mates has been front on. Being able to see someones face and read their body language is just as important as seeming to be 'facing the problem' or 'being on their side' metaphorically and physically. The reason we face someone when things become confrontational is for protection...you can't defend against something you can't see....so you face the danger. But we face things we love and enjoy all the time. We face each other when kiss, when we enjoy the sight of something, to engage with someone...etc etc
The other problem with the blow off is that etrto says 28mm is below the threshold for hookless safety at that interior rim width(he's riding a 28) even though the wheel manufacturer says it's ok. On another side I personally run 30's at 70/74 psi front/rear but my wheels are hooked.
Walrus content! It's always nice to see Chris here on the channel (where it all began). He's a great guy and a top advocate for cycling for personal health & as a community benefit.
i can’t speak for this specific combo, but generally mixing products from different brands has become more difficult because of incompatible indexing ratios and mounting interfaces
OK. So I bought the Brand X carbon drop bars from CRC a few months back. It cost me £9.99 discounted from £109.99! In fact, I bought a few of them, for my future builds. They are pretty decent and at this price, it was just a pure bargain!
Hookless/tubed debate. It's a completely false that a tube should be run at a higher pressure compared to tubeless, air volume is air volume. for instance Silca's calculator will give you the same pressure there or there abouts whether you're running tubes or tubeless. You will not pinch flat a tubed 28c tyre that measures 30-31mm on modern rims run at 60psi. This is the thinking that gets everyone in trouble running tubeless to begin with.
I think it has more to do with the tires than the rim! I have a giant tcr with SLR 1 hookless rims. On the Giant site there is a list of tires that you can use with the diameter and maximum pressure. And I have gp5000str 28 mm rims with 60 psi at the front and 65 psi at the rear. And as a sealant silca. Installation was no problem at all and I had a leak several times and only discovered it at home and barely lost any air. Personally, I wouldn't get a tire like the Vittoria Corsa Pro because those cotton sides are worthless, as is their puncture resistance. There's nothing wrong with hookless if you just stick to what the manufacturer recommends.
I don't want Giant to dictate my choice of tyres so I bought my Defy without the carbon rims and upgraded the wheels. I never liked hookless rims back in the 1970s and I think hooked rims are so much safer.
The point about hookless tubeless that everyone seems to miss is Systems weight. If you use SILCA’s tire pressure calculator even folks who are fairly light exceed 70 psi even with typical modern widths. I’m 74 kg and with the bike and kit easily 85 kg. That puts me around 80 psi for a wider 28-30 mm road tire. I’d need to run 32s to get into the 70 psi range. On my gravel bike none of this matters. The wide tires means my pressure is less than 40 psi and hookless tubeless works just fine.
Obviously depends on the level but the minimum rider rule makes sense from an organizer's point of view. If teams keep showing up with less than the required amount makes the event look bad. If an event excludes privateers in favors of teams, an event has every right to exclude a team that doesn't bring the number of riders required. There's an exchange of favors here, the event gives teams preference in entry and teams agree to provide a minimum amount of riders so that it isn't just a field of 20. Now, if a team made a good faith effort to provide the amount of riders but someone fell ill I think it's a bit harsh by the organizers to punish the team for it.
I think the internal tire "aero insert" ignores the physics of the contained air molecules inside the tire would be traveling at the relative speed of the tire itself since it's a sealed environment essentially with no influence from outside fluid dynamics. The only interaction that would affect the air inside the tire would be deformation that would cause turbulence, but again, because the air is in a sealed environment, it wouldn't affect the fluidity of the air in the tire to allow it to roll faster. The tire's friction to the road/surface would negate anything coming from the internal air. lol
It's a product from Tubolight and when I read the marketing copy it sounded like it wasn't about speed of air when rolling on a smooth surface but about somehow optimising pressure transfers throughout the tyre when it gets compressed rolling over an obstacle. I didn't fully take it in but as I read on it started to seem more like they were describing suspension damping than anything to do with aerodynamic drag. So as you say, it's literally about that turbulence rather than about air spinning faster. Pretty sure they were also for the MTB line of inserts only, so I'd guess it's more about rolling resistance than what we normally think of as 'aero' even though the science is all about the aerodynamics inside the tyre.
@@alexfthenakis6846 I know foam inserts work against tubeless tires "mushrooming" when hitting an obstruction and becoming unattached from the rim due to the tire not being able to withstand the pressure spike. It's nothing the way Jimmie described it, but foam inserts help prevent that.
Weird fact. Hookless rims are the original, or traditional rim pattern, and hooked, high pressure, or 'crochet' rims as they were called in the Mavic and Super Champion catalogues, are the modern interloper. Back when I started in the bike trade too many decades ago, I spent most of my days mending punctures on 'sports models' and 1970s '10 speeds' all of which used hookless steel rims. Hooked rims really hit their straps in the 1980s as a cheaper, easier alternative to tubulars, allowing what we're then thought of as race pressures . They caused their own problems, as they tended to cut tyres if the wrong rim/tyre combo was used, especially at lower pressures. We had charts put out by Mavic, I think, matching tyres to rims. Blowouts were a very real risk if the wrong combo was used. I can see why manufacturers have reintroduced hookless rims, they really do make sense at lower pressures. Great show, BTW. After a long time in the industry, and 50 years on 2 wheels, I still feel informed after every one of your episodes.
Old cyclist and over 30 years in the tyre trade. Hookless rim no such thing it's a simple well based rim. Same as old school 27 X 11/4 if you put more than 60psi in them they could come off. You can't beat a tubular tyre for racing as long as its glued on right.
It really was awesome to be a guest on the podcast. Thank you for letting me come on. Loved it.
Hi Chris,just finished watching you and Francis ride across Australia and I loved it.I live in Adelaide so was a bit familiar with.You are both amazing,thanks mate
Come to show more often if you could. Love your peacocking phenomenon on social media. Couldn‘t agree more.
Thanks for being real and raw with your story Chris, it is very inspirational and comforting at the same time.
emily, chris and jiimmy: any chance you would put the four hours out?! :) this episode was very nutritious and entertaining. thank you! a fellow fighter for the light here. holding that darkness back…. this HELPS.
sorry, my bad. jimmi. with an ‘i’.
Love Chris’s comment ‘he’s a bit older-34,35…..’ I’ve got shirts older than that.😂
😅
Great chat with Chris Hall!! When you were having the discussion with Chris on why/how he made the career transition started to being up “all the feels”.. the mental health struggles, the feeling of not being there in a year was raw and real.. thank you to Chris for sharing that and thanks to Emily and Jimmi for having the idea to have Chris on and talk about it. And especially loved the chat about not having to finish everything.. it’s ok.. loved Jimmi’s question of “did you have fun?”, awesome! Thanks for doing what you all do!
Try harder
@jackpot5115 ratio’d
My favorite part of the interview is the pictures shown at 24:13 of young Cade Media gang+Christ. Lovely chat, as usual. Chris seems like such a thoughtful, well-spoken person.
Chris is an amazing human. I love how he thinks deeply and talks sensitively. Great podcast.
Appreciate the kind words
While there’s something about the manner of these guys I really like, even the smallest amount of research would help SO much… Manufacturers don’t like hookless rims because they’re lighter, they like them because they’re substantially easier and cheaper tor make. The hook on a hooked bead locks the rim into the mold so you have to use things like inflatable bladders. That’s their problem though, hookless is a bad idea for narrow road tires.
They did mention this aspect in their quote of the one guy who was a cycling official and former pro.
Chris Hall - living my dream (also a designer wanting to be a full time fundraiser on the bike)! Chapeau.
Hookless
-Makes tires heavier by 25g each
-Makes wheels lighter by 15g each.
Maths no worky.
Edit: 28mm gp5k clincher 235g vs 28mm S TR 280g is actually a much bigger difference than I had originally typed. So hookless forces a 45g heavier per tire.
Let’s keep going:
- tube =19g
-30ml sealant =40g if I remember correctly.
The math ain’t mathin
Your wallet also gets a lot lighter so maths still works
But from the manufacturers perspective:
Save 10% on production
Charge 10% more for the gimmick
Hookless isn’t to benefit the consumer.
Math bad. Marketing such nice! Much aero, very speed!
@@markj.a351 And you can underline your statement with some examples? Whatever you think of hookless, Zipp eg made their wheelsets significantly, well, let's say more affordable. If they gave all their manufacturing savings to the costumer is of course a different question.
Well that’s made my podcast week great to have Chris on the show !
Bets on what's shorter? The amount of time for UCI to allow for disc brakes, a safety improvement; or time to act on hookless rims, an actual danger as-is.
I’m new to cycling. Could you please elaborate a little. Aren’t disc brakes already allowed by the uci? Or do you mean the time it took them to adopt them initially?
Thanks :)
Well, Vittoria said De Gendt's tire came off because of damage to the rim from running over a rock, so from that statement it seems the crash may have had nothing to do with hookless rims. With that said, the UCI released this statement today:
"In light of a series of recent incidents involving the use of hookless rims and tubeless tyres (a combination commonly referred to as hookless) in professional road cycling, the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) has decided to study the situation as a matter of urgency with a view to taking a rapid decision in the interest of rider safety.
These measures will be communicated as soon as possible.
The UCI shall continue to work closely with the stakeholders of cycling and equipment manufacturers to ensure that appropriate measures are taken both in the short and long term. This review and the decisions that will follow are part of the UCI's policy to promote rider safety, one of its major concerns."
Considering the number of crashes caused by disk brakes locking up, I wouldn’t call them a safety improvement for racers.
@@petesjk, I'd love to see the data you've collected on this and see how it compares to the number of crashes due to "locked-up brakes" in the years when rim brakes were dominant. I also can't wait to read how you collected the data and how you determined the cause of the crashes. No doubt you used a robust scientific method and took great care to eliminate sampling bias and to be sure that your own bias didn't affect the results.
Can you provide a link to the study you conducted and the large data sets you used?
@@robinseibel7540Right back at you, buddy. Do you have exhaustive detailed irrefutable body of evidence that disk brakes are safer in races, or are you just going by “personal experience “.
Not sure how you held it together there at battling pneumonia onwards. I had tears in my eyes and could see them in yours. Really good to see this honesty about life.
Tbh I had to go and have a bit of a break after recording.
Love Chris, great to see him back on Cade Media
I love the shirt 😂
I have diarrhoea
I second this! 👌🏽
Lotto mechanics says they are always checking the pressure and it was always correct with tubeless spec. So they definitely know what they doing...
Yeah, I find it hard to believe that mechanics on a World Tour team don't know what their doing when it comes to tyre pressure. I have never ridden a hookless rim, don't own a pro level bike and have never worked as a mechanic - even I know not to exceed the recommended pressure on hookless rims.
Yeah I think I read somewhere that the margin of error for the tires could also be about the margin of error of bike pumps.
@@MrDinkydink A lot of World Tour mechanics are 'old school', so it wouldn't surprise me if they weren't setting them up correctly.
@@Andy_ATB, do you really think that mechanics in a world tour team that are responsible for health of their riders by maintaining their bikes, can make such a mistake as not knowing how to use their sponsor equipment?
@@MrDinkydink mistakes happen even at the top. incompetence too.
What a brilliant episode! You just go from strength to strength. Respect.
Fantastic show today. I've enjoyed watching Chris' stuff and as a suffering want to be endurance rider, I subscribed the, "I did not finish, but had a great time trying" about 5 yrs ago. Since I changed my attitude on that, I found as time went by, that I have been able to do longer rides and achieve more of my goals that I ever could before and enjoy my suffering on the bike. Mind over matter as my mother would say. I think most social media is a scourge on society, it's made too many fake people.
Thanks!
Road tyre tubeless inserts are popular on the World Tour, simply because, a puncture will not stop the rider and allow the team car to catch up to swap wheels.
They are also good to give confidence on fast descents... Whether tubeless or with inner tubes, a sudden blowout can be catastrophic and these inserts can in fact keep you out of the hospital (with hooked rims).
Chris is great, tons of bike-related experience, caluabke info. Max respect!
Most "tubeless ready" I've seen did have the rim tape in place? Just had to put in valves and sealant! As Chris said, they just don't want the sealant to dry out while the bike sits around a warehouse or a shop...
Oh, my Canyon Endurace had tubeless ready wheels with rim tape, but the tyres were *not* tubeless ready! I'm using the tyres up first...
My tubeless ready didn't come with tape. Just tubes.
the issue here is the word 'ready'. its not till it is. i'm surprised consumer affairs (or whatever its called there) has allowed it to be termed that. it's deceiving.
Great podcast again guys.
Great to see Chris and top style marks on the shirt as well! 👍
When I purchased my 2021 TCR my mechanic helped me pick my carbon wheels for it. He told me to get "hooked" rims so I could have the widest options in tires and that he wasn't sold on the tech. being better. Plus I do not run tubeless as I am pretty quick and changing tubes and it doesn't bother me to do it. Now that I see and hear of tires popping of the rims I am happy with my decision to buy "hooked" rims. Thanks for another great show. Keep up the good work.
I heard your podcast while riding my bike and it felt like I'm a part of your friend circle
For the record, Vittoria put out a statement that said the reason the tire came off was because De Gendt ran over a rock that damaged the rim.
So at least in this case there is more to it than the more common finger pointing at either the rim, the tire, or the pressure.
Regardless whether he ran over a rock or not, the tyre still shouldn't have come off the rim.
If the rim breaks, as Vittoria said it did, the tire can absolutely come off the rim.
@@robinseibel7540 I've had plenty of broken rims from smashes on potholes and never had tyre come off the rim.
@@matthewclements8661, then I guess that means your experience must be representative of all such experiences and everyone else's doesn't count.
Great podcast, this resonates hard. What a balanced a guy. I'm striving for this mind set.
Our goals should be to have fun, and enjoy it. Some how the ultra competitiveness that many of us have felt with riding and racing for years and years have really messed some of us up. It can be a struggle to just enjoy the ride sometimes, something that I am definitely working on.
40:00 - This is an attitude that responsible scientists embrace all the time. If you conduct an experiment and you get a negative result (DNF in cycling), then you still publish your findings. They publish negative results constantly, because doing so allows others to avoid making the same mistakes.
yes! unquestionably we learn more from mistakes. the difference between messing around and science is that scientists take notes!
Chris's experience of architecture seems quite similar to that of my wife. Went into it purely out of academic interest, completed all the training and worked for several years. It is unfortunately a very stressful and undervalued profession which is pitifully paid unless you want to sell out your soul to big developers.
My wife did at least have one lasting and positive effect on the cycling world though, being the lead architect on Glentress Mountain bike centre. Now if only I liked MTBs rather than gravel and road...! 😆
40:33 "still a significant amount of everests." ANY number of everests is a significant amount.
I loved your discussion about finishing an event. I did my first AIDS Lifecycle ride in 2022 which is 7 days over 545 miles. You get to do the ride if you meet the fundraising limit. I was riding a recumbent trike and completed 60% of the miles and took one day off due to a bad sunburn and lack of sleep the night before. But I enjoyed the ride and the love from all the other 2500+ riders and roadies on the event. I'll be doing the ride again in June but this time on a surly bridge club 27.5 touring bike.
Chris is a real inspiration. Great having him on the show!
Many congrats with the podcast by the way! I love tuning in and seeing how you grow into your new roles and create an entertaining listen & view. It is getting better every time.
Chris is an amazing person, so glad he is on the show.
Chris is such an inspirational character. We should all be a little more Chris. 'Howay the lad'...
Waiting on that 14 hour episode on bearings . Sounds informative.
it's like Chris Miller & Cade Media are fighting... same content... same thumbnails!... same audience.. i listen to both, and it's enjoyable to hear multiple takes.. but its getting funny how close the 2x weekly podcasts are. :D
Chris is such a legend , inspirational 👌 great episode as always
Great seeing Chris again!
Another excellent episode 👌🏾I’m really enjoying these 👊🏾✊🏾
I bet in the UK it's a lot easier to just flat out quit your job. You don't have to worry about breaking your leg, not having health care, and becoming homeless like we do here in the states.
i love hearing conservatives talk about how business friendly singapore is, not understanding that one of the best things singapore does for their local economy is housing everyone they can. it’s also a lot easier to take risks in business when you don’t have to worry about breaking your leg, not having healthcare, and becoming homeless
A bit harsh to criticise Halfords. The specification section of the bike on the website states the tyres are “tubeless ready” and describes the rims as “Boardman Tubeless Compatible (Tape, Valves and Sealant Required)”.
I think that’s pretty clear isn’t it? Maybe an apology to Halfords is in order.
Goddamn it I love Chris. Prime bars are fantastic good shout, hope they survive the wiggle issues.
Hey chris its good to see you making a guest appearance on the vlog
Thank you! It was awesome to be part of it
5:00 I hope they go on to highlight that this is rotating weight so these grams are significantly more important to a "road weenie" than 20-30g grams off a frame weight, for example.
Thanks for sharing your personal struggles with mental health, Chris. And that's a badass shirt BTW!
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and not JUST for Chris's jacket! LOVE a Tiger Stripe 🐯
Can't believe you're getting massive TH-camrs on the show now, they grow up so fast ☺
Great podcast one word to describe Chris - humble👍
19:40 not my idea but one I heard on why it could be: they take the place of another team that does try their best to always have enough riders to take part.
In a video, which I believe was the Eversting. I heard Chris say, " I know how to suffer and I will always do my best." He gained so much respect from me. I like to think I am in the same mindset. I am a United States Marine. We have a mantra which states "Embrace the suck!" I like to think that I don't turn away when the times are tough. When I decide to a personal challenge, I am not intimidated by the suffering. I look forward to the person I will be afterward. Regardless if I succeed in the challenge or not. I would rather attempt the challenge and fail, than not do the challenge at all. I am a process person and not a results person. And the journey is what I always value and remember , rather than the destination.
Disqualification because your team is too small: It's like every other sport. If you show up to a football game and you don't have enough players, you forfeit. This is because they don't want to have competitions where people aren't taking it seriously. Sure, for an amateur race it doesn't matter. For a professional race it matters. Imagine if the top teams said, "This race isn't so important to us, so we'll just send 1 or 2 token riders. We don't care if we win." It undermines the entire race. The rules for the number of riders is to protect the integrity of the race. That's it. The inflexibility is so that teams don't intentionally "bend the rules" because "we don't care about this race" and "want to just let some riders get some experience". It's literally to stop teams from doing that. If you have races with 5 riders, you need to travel with 6 or 7 so that you have spares. It's a professional race. It sucks if your team is too small or too disorganised to do that, but it's a professional race and these professional teams need to be at a certain minimum standard.
Loved this episode.
Hi there,
Great podcast; you are very interresting and gentle people
Another fantastic episode and looking forward to the next one👍
Great podcast. I thought the road foam inserts were to help keep the tyre on the rim. I bet the tyres are over pressured. Zipp tested a 28mm Goodyear tyre on an 808 rim that survived to 175psi (Cycling Plus Oct 2022).
Nah the foam inserts allow the rider to somewhat carry on with a flat while the team car comes with a spare bike.
Great interview, thank you
56:46 "Jimmy Neutral". 😂
Great episode, where did that hour go. 🤪
that was a great pod, and salute to chris for sharing his story. very inspiring individual.
Kudos to Chris' boss for not letting him quit and doing the redundancy thing.
Haha. Thomas de Gent finishing a stage does not really indicate that he is fine. He is one of the hardest riders in the peleton and doesn't often fail to finish a stage, similar to his near namesake Thomas de Geraint.
The "hybrid hooks" on Light Bicycle's latest wheels looks like a smart halfway solution.
That blow out scenario happened to me last Sunday! Blew one side of the tyre completely off the rim
what sort of rims do you run?
The sheer hubris of this guy to suggest that the PROFESSIONAL race mechanics at Lotto Destiny may not fully understand modern tyre pressure limits 😂😂
I think the thing about the rider shortage, is that if they were unable to start with the correct number, another team that does have the ability to compete, has been denied a spot. The organiser wants to ensure that the race is as competitive as possible.
80 kg and running 26c tires. Tire pressure calculators put me at 85 psi front and 87 psi rear for recommendations, even with tubeless. To say no one is running >73 psi with tubeless is absolutely wrong.
Regarding Hookless tyres: As a heavier rider my recommended pressure for 32c tyres is around 67psi but 30c is 74psi so I can't safely use 30c on hookless at the recommended pressures.
Yep, it might be ok for 60kg pro riders, but not for us bigger guys. And I'm not even talking overweight: I'm 194 and 85, and couldn't use hookless without extra-wide.
On the subject of tubeless, also worth noting that some tire brands have models where the aftermarket version is tubeless compatible, but the OEM (not available for sale) version is not. People see the tire model spec'd on a bike and assume it's the tubeless compatible version, but it's not. Always double check!
Great topics this week 👍
I’m running 80psi tubeless (and I’m sure many others are), as recommended by the Silca tire pressure calculator (total system weight of 200lbs on 28mm tires)
Same. Not sure what he’s talking about no one running tubeless anywhere near 73psi. I’m recommended 84 back 80 front by silca
Why are you guys using tubeless? You are not getting much benefit from an 28mm 84PSI tubeless tire. 🤷
The Silca site is terrible for accuracy. I have done over 12k road miles hookles at 225lbs and run 60psi F and 64psi R for 28mm tires.
I’m running tubeless for the puncture sealing benefit. I’ve had many punctures on training rides that tubeless has successfully sealed. Tubes are also dangerous for blowouts, especially with latex tubes, if you install it quickly and pinch it between the rim bead and rim, it’ll blow off a few miles down the road (seen this happen multiple times) . As for the Silca tire pressure accuracy, I’m sure you could be right, I race p1/2 and used to run hookless at 65psi, but I often struck the rim on bumps (especially whilst cornering) so I switched back to hooks and increased pressure. I’m 175lbs
@@defsef9737 Personally, I look at the Silca calculator as being directional versus definitive - kind of a starting point, season to taste. Selected surface condition, speed, tire type, and measured tire width make a huge difference in the results. One item commonly overlooked item is measured tire size - right now I have two different sets of 28C tires mounted on different wheels - one measures right at 28mm, the other measures at 30mm.
Re the pro team fraud story, the thing I found stunning was the bans, especially the 2yr ban for the sports director which seemed overly harsh compared to what riders have received for far more severe infractions.
I was a tire designer & engineer for over 30 years and I can tell you Hook-Less wheels & tires are no different than playing Russian roulette with one bullet round in the chamber of a 6 shooter gun. Even if the manufacturer guarantees they will pay 100% of your emergency stay at an ICU and therapy recovery, !!!"DON'T DO IT"!!! The problem is in the bead circumference of the tire. The tire manufacturer can spec the bead circumference to exact specs till the cows come home. But the fact/problem is there are a ton of factors that will change that perfect circumference bead spec to be larger. Keep in mind tire beads are made of soft flexible materials. And just like a metal coat hanger if you flex it enough it will weaken and eventually break.. In this case just weakening the bead, plus cornering forces and the high speed centrifugal forces will push the weak bead over the rim's edge and cause a catastrophic loss of air, usually at high speeds. *FYI: If you're lucky, sometimes the tire bead is pushed just to the limit and will slip over the rim edge while the bike is just standing. Who ever came up with this bright idea..................... .... .. . Pls Stop.
Enjoyable podcast and well done for taking the time to talk about mental health. I would urge Chris and anyone else suffering with their mental wellbeing to get their testosterone levels checked, it’s a major problem for me because of a condition I now have to manage and live with, but it’s becoming increasingly common for levels to be closer to the low end of “Normal” even in people who have no underlying conditions and believe themselves to be healthy.
I dont run a insert on my road setup but for gravel the insert actually saved me multiple times. I cased on a tree root on single track with my gravel bike and I believe the inserts saved my carbon wheels.
Chris is great. More Chris please!
I think the progress in aluminum/engineering as it relates to the cycling industry is more obvious in the MTB realm with companies like actofive, pole using cnc bonded 7075 aluminum, Banshee's Paradox hardtail with their machined/tuned dropout and yoke designs and Atherton bikes entering the alloy realm as well.
Saying a World Tour Mechanic is less educated than us regulars in these aspects is wild!!!
Hookless is trash in road cycling, way less margins to handle, way less options for tires, you're literally narrowing yourself down your options with Hookless, no added benefits over a regular hooked wheel.
The whole idea of Tubeless was that is was a simpler system with less materials in play but you need a heavier tire, the proper amount of juice depending on the tire, now you're adding a foam that with the added weight and the material composition directly affects the rolling resistance, it's just a gimmick for the sake of saying you have it.
It looks like Cade has gone to the number one cycling channel right now.
I’m looking for an episode that talks about the Nero show.
Satisfaction , not fun, is perhaps more important and a better metric. Almost no-one does a triathlon to have fun. Few can probably have fun doing it. They are gruelling. Equally having fun on a ride isn't necessarily going to mean it was satisfying for you.
Some people need to beat others, no doubt there's a lot of psychology you can do into that, but it's a competitive person. Others want to achieve a set distance, or time, or want to help another person finish, so even if they have 'fun' but that person doesn't finish then it isn't satisfying, hollow victory.
As long as how and why you ride satisfies you then all power to you.
I think it's something to do with the tyre insert (airstrip). Maybe this increases the pressure when used. Or they've compensated with using a lower pressure, and when there was an impact, the insert has caused the tyre to blow off? ... interesting stuff
Chris is a very relatable and humble guy. Loved hearing more about him and he’s a really positive role model for guys ❤
i liked what this guy is saying 6:12 teams appear to us as pro level they KNOW everything but they don't. i have hooked and hookless. my hooked wheels setup is at 75 psi, but my hookless is 55 psi, far far from max.
having said that if pro teams switch away people will leave them behind.
love Chris and love the tubeless ready comment at the end of the show. Enjoy it.
Another excellent episode. Chris is a joy. I was reminded by his comment about the convivial nature of riding side by and the confrontational nature of facing each other (as he said you are during recording) that this is particularly a male experience (and, of course, very much cultural). If you watch two men having a friendly conversation they tend to stand shoulder-to-shoulder, more or less; whereas they will face each other if the conversation is confrontational. For women it is often the opposite: The failure to face each other is more aggressive and confrontational. Riding, of course, is best side-to-side :)
I think there is an argument for saying most confrontational arugments occur when people are facing each other. I'm not so sure you can you need to be facing the same way to usually have non confrontational conversations.
Almost every cafe conversation i've had with mates has been front on. Being able to see someones face and read their body language is just as important as seeming to be 'facing the problem' or 'being on their side' metaphorically and physically.
The reason we face someone when things become confrontational is for protection...you can't defend against something you can't see....so you face the danger. But we face things we love and enjoy all the time. We face each other when kiss, when we enjoy the sight of something, to engage with someone...etc etc
Elastomer suspension stems are great. Maybe not for sprint racing but other stuff. Especially for older bikes that cant fit nice 32-35mm tires.
The other problem with the blow off is that etrto says 28mm is below the threshold for hookless safety at that interior rim width(he's riding a 28) even though the wheel manufacturer says it's ok. On another side I personally run 30's at 70/74 psi front/rear
but my wheels are hooked.
Walrus content! It's always nice to see Chris here on the channel (where it all began). He's a great guy and a top advocate for cycling for personal health & as a community benefit.
7:10 can someone explain this? why is shimano + zipp + vittoria a weird mix of components?
i can’t speak for this specific combo, but generally mixing products from different brands has become more difficult because of incompatible indexing ratios and mounting interfaces
OK. So I bought the Brand X carbon drop bars from CRC a few months back. It cost me £9.99 discounted from £109.99! In fact, I bought a few of them, for my future builds. They are pretty decent and at this price, it was just a pure bargain!
I quit road inserts. I was hoping that I would be able to not carry a spare. In the end, they just made it impossible to mount some tubless tires.
I just got some TUFO Tubular Clinchers, Any opinions on these?
Hookless/tubed debate. It's a completely false that a tube should be run at a higher pressure compared to tubeless, air volume is air volume. for instance Silca's calculator will give you the same pressure there or there abouts whether you're running tubes or tubeless. You will not pinch flat a tubed 28c tyre that measures 30-31mm on modern rims run at 60psi. This is the thinking that gets everyone in trouble running tubeless to begin with.
I think it has more to do with the tires than the rim! I have a giant tcr with SLR 1 hookless rims. On the Giant site there is a list of tires that you can use with the diameter and maximum pressure. And I have gp5000str 28 mm rims with 60 psi at the front and 65 psi at the rear. And as a sealant silca. Installation was no problem at all and I had a leak several times and only discovered it at home and barely lost any air. Personally, I wouldn't get a tire like the Vittoria Corsa Pro because those cotton sides are worthless, as is their puncture resistance. There's nothing wrong with hookless if you just stick to what the manufacturer recommends.
I was kinda hesitant about going with Giant SLR1-50 hookless, until i read how Giant does their testing🤯 They have my confidence 👍
I don't want Giant to dictate my choice of tyres so I bought my Defy without the carbon rims and upgraded the wheels. I never liked hookless rims back in the 1970s and I think hooked rims are so much safer.
Love these shows / podcasts….
over-/under-rated:
- bike build videos
- multiple oil/greases for bike maintenance
- any other BB than square taper
Cheers from Berlin!
Interesting to see that you say post stretching is overrated ,I never use to until I ripped a muscle & vien from cramp .
The point about hookless tubeless that everyone seems to miss is Systems weight. If you use SILCA’s tire pressure calculator even folks who are fairly light exceed 70 psi even with typical modern widths. I’m 74 kg and with the bike and kit easily 85 kg. That puts me around 80 psi for a wider 28-30 mm road tire. I’d need to run 32s to get into the 70 psi range. On my gravel bike none of this matters. The wide tires means my pressure is less than 40 psi and hookless tubeless works just fine.
Obviously depends on the level but the minimum rider rule makes sense from an organizer's point of view. If teams keep showing up with less than the required amount makes the event look bad. If an event excludes privateers in favors of teams, an event has every right to exclude a team that doesn't bring the number of riders required. There's an exchange of favors here, the event gives teams preference in entry and teams agree to provide a minimum amount of riders so that it isn't just a field of 20.
Now, if a team made a good faith effort to provide the amount of riders but someone fell ill I think it's a bit harsh by the organizers to punish the team for it.
I think the internal tire "aero insert" ignores the physics of the contained air molecules inside the tire would be traveling at the relative speed of the tire itself since it's a sealed environment essentially with no influence from outside fluid dynamics. The only interaction that would affect the air inside the tire would be deformation that would cause turbulence, but again, because the air is in a sealed environment, it wouldn't affect the fluidity of the air in the tire to allow it to roll faster. The tire's friction to the road/surface would negate anything coming from the internal air. lol
It's a product from Tubolight and when I read the marketing copy it sounded like it wasn't about speed of air when rolling on a smooth surface but about somehow optimising pressure transfers throughout the tyre when it gets compressed rolling over an obstacle. I didn't fully take it in but as I read on it started to seem more like they were describing suspension damping than anything to do with aerodynamic drag. So as you say, it's literally about that turbulence rather than about air spinning faster. Pretty sure they were also for the MTB line of inserts only, so I'd guess it's more about rolling resistance than what we normally think of as 'aero' even though the science is all about the aerodynamics inside the tyre.
@@alexfthenakis6846 I know foam inserts work against tubeless tires "mushrooming" when hitting an obstruction and becoming unattached from the rim due to the tire not being able to withstand the pressure spike. It's nothing the way Jimmie described it, but foam inserts help prevent that.
Weird fact. Hookless rims are the original, or traditional rim pattern, and hooked, high pressure, or 'crochet' rims as they were called in the Mavic and Super Champion catalogues, are the modern interloper. Back when I started in the bike trade too many decades ago, I spent most of my days mending punctures on 'sports models' and 1970s '10 speeds' all of which used hookless steel rims. Hooked rims really hit their straps in the 1980s as a cheaper, easier alternative to tubulars, allowing what we're then thought of as race pressures . They caused their own problems, as they tended to cut tyres if the wrong rim/tyre combo was used, especially at lower pressures. We had charts put out by Mavic, I think, matching tyres to rims. Blowouts were a very real risk if the wrong combo was used. I can see why manufacturers have reintroduced hookless rims, they really do make sense at lower pressures.
Great show, BTW. After a long time in the industry, and 50 years on 2 wheels, I still feel informed after every one of your episodes.
Old cyclist and over 30 years in the tyre trade. Hookless rim no such thing it's a simple well based rim. Same as old school 27 X 11/4 if you put more than 60psi in them they could come off. You can't beat a tubular tyre for racing as long as its glued on right.
Inserts for road tires is a normal thing. They use it in the tour for a while now. At least the Vittoria compressible one