Hey Grim, just wanted to comment to say I rly appreciate the positive and enthusiastic spin you put on your videos. The game isn't free from problems, but sometimes it feels like I'm hearing the same negativity and dooming from every direction when a new league is on the horizon. Your vids are a breath of fresh air in comparison
if you have +5 arrows from gear and tree you can completely eliminate GMP and replace with crit gem for example. So you lose the massive GMP damage nerf AND gain a huge crit bonus.
+5 isn't enough tho. you want at least a total of 8 arrows, so +7. If you are at 6 total (+5), then you could swap out GMP for LMP, but it's a big loss getting rid of any + projectile gem at only +5 arrows.
@@snocone5721 For LA, its really not necessary to have that many projectiles just to clear packs. After getting all your projectile nodes and deadeye proj, you have 5 proj. Having 5 proj on LA for clear will feel perfectly fine for screen coverage, especially if you have the +1 chain. Plus it shouldnt take THAT long to get +1 arrow on quiver for 6 total proj if it does feel a bit lacking. Plus an LMP is still a dps increase over GMP if you want to go that route and will make the build feel slightly stronger at the same number of projectiles as previous league. The 6 shitty passive points you need to grab before those proj nodes hurt the most, but getting a large Thread of Hope for a couple div early on will do wonders for this build in the mid game. A massive ToH will be better late game, but before you have the levels (and currency) to support the passive skill points necessary, a large ToH is better in the ranger jewel slot. And in the very late game, just get the +1 proj notables on the crucible tree and its a gigantic upgrade from previous league and that allows you to still go the massive ToH WITH the additional projectiles. To make up for crit loss in the end game, get the crit medium jewels instead of the proj damage mid cluster jewels. The only awkward time in the build is that transition from mid game to uber late game. Getting the crucible notables on your bow is a bit annoying, and waiting for that before swapping to the massive ToH could create an awkward period in the build that didnt exist before. But then again, you will still be deleting content at this point anyways even with this slightly awkward transition time. For TS, ya, you dont drop GMP early game. But one thing about TS is that you generally want at minimum 30 secondary arrows to feel like TS has reliable clear. Beforehand, this required you to get the helmet enchant and +1 arrow from quiver/bow/AwakenedGMP. This made the entry level requirements for TS very high to just FEEL good for screen clear reliability, let alone damage. Now, all you need to hit this breakpoint is a +1 quiver/bow or the helmet enchant, not both. And a +1 quiver is normally a lot cheaper and more accessible. So the entry level price went WAY down for TS. I think swapping to TS in your 80s after getting your +1 quiver should feel decent, but you can just chill and wait till you get your helmet enchant which is a HUGE upgrade for TS like you normally would anyways and the clear will feel even better then before.
You're forgetting the biggest buff to endgame bow builds: the vengeant cascade changes. edit: I was wrong, Tornado shot secondary projectiles cannot return. I still want to find out whether or not sniper's mark splits apply on both the outgoing and returning primary projectile.
I wish you post more videos in the future, Grim.. Your content is golden and you seems such a nice person that makes me more interested in seeing your videos. Have a great league start.
I don't know if Deadeye has been buffed for bows, but I think the projectiles on the tree mean that you can run bow builds on other ascendencies. Ice Shot Raider looks like it has potential. I'm personally going to be starting Ice Shot Trickster. Lightning Arrow, I would definitely still go Deadeye.
Decent amount of cost in getting +2 arrows on tree with what it did to the nodes on Master Fletcher, but you also don't need to pay a double damage tax on your clear link via LMP or GMP (double in that you need to use a link on it and that you normally eat a %less damage penalty for using it). I think the accuracy might be the only thing you really notice early on, but you have a few easy ways to solve for it now.
What about the large thread of hope in the slot where the legion jewel is in the pob shown? Idk what the legion jewel provides but the thread there is also super high value, giving you the +2 proj, suppression, ele damage to attacks etc
Great walkthrough, I am so tempted to start an attack based bow build and the new bow support gem seems really interesting as well. I really like to see them allowing bows to be played more outside of a very high end investment build. :D 3.21 hype!
What do you guys think about the changes to the bow passives? Are you excited about the projectiles or sad about the reduction in stats? Edit: One thing I forgot to mention is you can easily fix the accuracy loss by allocating the accuracy mastery and increasing your precision rank a little bit!
It's dope man, I've wanted to leaguestart bow for years and I have been finally fully baited into it The really big thing is the leveling, it will hopefully feel so much smoother with Sniper's Mark and Faster Attacks being available so early. Also not needing GMP means we avoid a really big LESS multiplier on our 6L
Overall hyped about these changes. Would you consider using large ring of hope to get the 2 projectiles without needing the bad travel nodes? There are some really good nodes in that ring, but its where you put your timeless jewel and you miss out on your other ring of hope- interested in what you think of that tradeoff
I think the thing being forgotten by most saying this same thing is the following: 1. You no longer need to suffer the damage decrease from using GMP. That in itself KINDA sorts out the missing damage. 2. You USUALLY will be using a single target bow skill for boss killing so doing a little bit of math is quite easy. Lets say you at 100 damage. Losing the 40% you'd normally get from the master fletcher path, that puts you now at only 60 damage. But you get an extra arrow. So now its more like 60x2 damage as opposed to the old 100 which is a net buff in the end. Until the pathing behind Master Fletcher results in a net 50% less damage being added, you'll always come out on top. Its not a penalized arrow. So essentially, an extra arrow node is a x2 damage increase to the overall build. So essentially, they gave bows pathable x3 damage total in nodes as you'll get those 2 extra arrows. 3. Lets take a decent Deadeye single target boss killer, give her NO extra arrows and say her build caps at 1.5M damage to a boss on the old path. With the new path, those nodes not existing the same will probably only effect the damage down to 1.2M, but lets say it drops it 1M. The FULL DPS would be a result of 1mX3, which is now 3M damage. This is not how the nodes work but you get the gist of it. The nodes for damage increase only applies to your base amount of damage. The nodes for the arrows applies to your final damage number. No matter the cost to the % of base damage increase, a raw x2 or x3 will be far better. Go to Poe builder right now. Do whatever build you want. Finalize it. Then cheat on something, add nodes worth 150% increase in damage. Your damage will barely move. BUT if you simply add an extra arrow somewhere, the damage doubles. Its math folks.
Hey Grim, why is there no mention of the potential of dropping GMP with the new nodes? That alone is a pretty huge buff for damage. Also, super excited for your league start video! I'm wondering if it'd be worth using the new mana arrow and putting in things like frenzy and ensnaring arrow. Maybe even dropping ballistas (freeing up so many points) and using a 6 link mana arrow set up.
Grim have you heard from Fyregrass? He's been non-existent the past 2 months and I'm concerned because he usually makes a lot of content a week or so before the league start and he hasn't made any.
there is a cool mark mastery that transfers you mark to nearby enemy when the target dies, since mark on hit has like 4 sec cooldown it might be awesome for clear
Shouldn't affect clear at all. It's still only gonna be on one monster from the pack, you need enough damage to one shot the whole pack. One monster within the pack dying faster doesn't really accomplish much.
@@WelcomeBackMeHere well for snipers mark its some extra projectiles, also a lot of content has mobs spawning for some time, like abyss, might be nice there
@@Ilyak1986 I seriously doubt it. That timeless jewel is probably the most efficient pickup in most ranger builds. For my TS build, it's responsible for like 20% dps increase, plus it gives alchemist's genius which is very nice especially with mageblood (movement speed goes up by 8 percentage points). AND I'm getting 8% inc. life from it as well. And the dex from it brings my omni from 1k to 1.2k, which is included in the aforementioned 20% dps increase, but also without mageblood would probably go a long ways to helping cap resistances
Hey Grim, could we use the timeless jewel socket for thread of hope(large ring) to get Multishot and bow fire addional arrow(Bow wheel) nodes for endgame?
Either i missed it but i dont think i heard you talk about using a large thread of hope in the socket right above the Fervour frenzy charge node. hits master fletcher, multishot, perfectionist, aspect of the eagle, quickstep, and primeval force.
@@Grimro i planned on using that thread location to give scourge arrow pods better grouping because of the +2 proj and other goodies like spell suppression and ms. Moving mt timeless jewel to large cluster jewel spot.
Hello Grim! Do you Do you think LA league starter is viable for this league? I was looking for some related build and saw your 3.20 video and got really interested in trying it out. But i don't know how it will perform with all the changes
Would you still leaguestart this as a raider, or pathfinder/deadeye? Followed your google-doc last league and eveyrthing went smoothly, so I guess it's pretty much the same deal just with more umph now ? :P
its kinda personal preference for a bow build. Im leaning towards PF as you can abuse life flask for easy sustain which allows you to do bosses much earlier, whereas deadeye is more for pure mapping and overgearing content and 1 shotting bosses once you are overgeared. If I don't like having to use life flask every 5 seconds for sustain i'll definitely swap deadeye and just map really fast and worry about bossing later. The tree for all ascendancies is essentially the same, so it's not a big deal to respec.
I wish we had +2 generic proj on the tree instead of +1 generic and +1 bow... considering spectral throw and having an even number of projectiles will probably be really awkward for aiming.
Thanks for the information. I was passionately waiting for this video to go out :D. Will you make a video about your league starting Build ? What ascendancy are you going to start ? Do you have a trick about searching for good Timeless jewels on the market ? :)
Heii m8t thx a lot you show that bows are just smother i hope i get a vaal lightning i love lightning arrow♡ thx a bunch for that very good and informative video❤
couldnt you ofset the passive points with a thread of hope in the area to get the 2 proj? or is the other thread of hope location just that much better?
but then you lose the timeless jewel which gives a fuck ton of dex and other stats, that timeless jewel when also paired with that thread of hope hits like 10-12 usable passives which is massive. For example if you rolled 20% damage on each passive thats 240% increased damage for a jewel slot, an extreme example but it shows how strong that timeless jewel can be. In no world are you trading that much power for +1 proj when theres so many ways to get projectiles.
What do you think about using a Large Thread of Hope to get Multishot, Master Fletcher, Primeval Force, One With Nature, Quickstep, King of the Hill, Perfectionist and potentionally Piercing Shot/Split Shot in the earlier stage to save some points and sitll get all of those notables? Maybe even 1 Large and 1 Massive? Sure it would be absolutely insane, but you could save several points overall. And with good gear and Omni or so I think it COULD be somewhat viable. I should theorycraft that a bit :D
May I ask you why everyone chooses raider ascendancy for RoA start instead of deadeye? I get it that raider has more defences but onslaught and phasing we can get from a flask, however gathering winds, far shot, focal point and occupying force are a huge dps boost that's unobtainable for raider I really want to choose deadeye as damage is usually a bottle neck at league start but I don't get why no one's doing it
@@Grimro very easy for anyone to demonstrate that this is false, just load any ts mb build from pob, no matter if you take the #1 dps 95M or you scroll down to the bottom and wow look at that, there's only 4 notables in the entire tree that give 8-10%, and they have travel nodes, so they're not 8-10% per point. Heartseeker + mastery? 16% in 4pts. King of the hill? 5.5% per point. Medium cluster jewel with repeater + eye to eye: 12% for 4pts. 8% more dmg is 70% to 100+% increased damage. The idea that you get the equivalent of 70%+ inc dmg per point is obviously stupid
i feel like so many people will get baited to play elemental bow league starters and find out that it requires some decent gear to get anywhere. in t14+ maps, league start bow builds fall off a cliff and need some dedication to get back up. it's the only archetype i really enjoy and i can league start it just fine, but there will be lots of salt.
What are your thoughts on frenzy, gmp, manaforged arrow and optionally power charge on crit for permanent uptime of charges? Not sure if you can fit 4 gems though
Manaforged Arrows seems very insane in its own 4L/second 6L if you can just balance your other 6L to be more than 3x the mana cost. This happens a lot on bow skills because very often the mana cost is down in the single digits anyway. This way you can effectively cast it every single time you attack with your main skill. I think rather than use it for Frenzy/PCoC it is best used as literally just a supplement to clear or perhaps single target to help kill leftover rares when your TS/IS/LA kills the rest of the pack. Something like 4L Manaforged - Barrage - 120% Support Gem - Divergent Inspiration costs ~17 mana whereas your average 6L Tornado Shot might cost around 40. But, if you put a -8 total mana cost ring on, suddenly these costs go down to 9 and 32, so every time you use your 6L, you will cast your 4L mana cost for free. Having a strong single target supplement like that on every single attack could be very strong. You can even probably balance two 6L if one of them is using Anomalous GMP + Divergent Inspiration while the other doesn't. This way, whenever you attack with one 6L you're attacking with the other one for 'free'.
@@Asch_Ente I agree, it might be a good alternative to ballistas. Playing manaforged frenzy in the early game frees up some useful stuff though before you have a reliable way of getting frenzy charges such as on a quiver. You can drop blood rage and dont have to deal with the degen and you can take marked enemies cannot crit instead of frenzy charges as a mark mastery.
Tornado shot actually does benefit on single target, as long as you're point blank on enemies. That said, it's 100% more damage for stuff like barrage, shrapnel ballista (which arrow nova juices to the moon) and lightning arrow/ice shot.
I really want to try a raider TS ele with omni and forbidden flesh/flame for endless munitions, but not sure about the dmg. And i dont know that will happen with Adenaline node.
Adrenaline node (I assume your talking about the mastery) is gone. It was in a recent faq update changed to +6s to cool down and remove ailments(damaging?) when changing stance. As you can see without a crapton of CDR your not going to be able to stance swap frequently enough to reliably remove ailments.
huge respect for havoc, he has been my main inspiration for starting LA the past 5 leagues, but LA totem is just straight up worse imo Maybe in an act 10 speedrun there’s some merit to it for very slightly better clear or something, but for raw damage/single target AB is so much better
Would you say that playing ele bow in group ssf (4 ppl) is a bait? Well it was always a bait before, could be as 2nd character but not starter. Maybe the Artillery ballista ele ssf starter could be viable? I will be heister of our small group and cant decide on good raider build for heist, wanted to do TR but diadem drop nerfed for early ssf.
for someone like me who rarely does super juiced ultra endgame 100div builds and content and just kinda alch and go yolo whatever content im feeling like those +2 nodes with a deadeye is gonna be amazing XD
My oniy fear is that given how many posts I see about bow starters, LA etc. on the poebuilds subreddit I'm scared the prices of fractured spine bow bases will go through the roof.
lol, theres not THAT many ppl visiting poe builds subreddit.. i would be more afraid of youtube videos with 200k+ views like toxic rain, this is what drives the prices up, gl playing that
toxic rain ballista the absolute king of delayed gameplay. Put down ballista > wait for ballista to shoot > wait for toxic rain to land > wait for toxic rain to explode > wait for toxic rain to ramp up in damage. biggest bait build ive ever seen in my life
last league I got multiple T2 fractured ele spine bows for 2div each around the 24 hour mark, T3 high roll was like 50c despite the popularity this league being WAY higher, I don’t think the price will increase that much early on. Vast majority of the new people playing this build are not going to be buying fractured spines on day 1/2 so as long as you’re ahead of the curve you’re good
my 3.21 tree still fine, got 100 hit rate 100 crit, same as 3.2 15mil dps IF I get decent bow into my hands xD im just worried about few alt gems more than other stuff
You did say "not accounting Crucible" but I think that the issues you mentioned about skill points and extra arrows are going to be balanced out by getting these nodes for free on the crucible trees...
Well first of all those trees are around only for this league, so it's still worth considering how this affects the base game. You also can't reliably get those trees during league start, so that's still affected. AND the good ones might be expensive even after league start, we don't really know how available the good nodes are, they might be expensive.
I don't get why you talk about having 7 projectiles as a bow character early, didn't you say Raider was better early ? So we're essentially not Deadeye until mid/late-ish.
5:06 perfect sound of taking damage by unit
Updating Filtersounds as we speak
Looking forward to your updated LA guide. Always amazing content. Thank you.
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Hey Grim, just wanted to comment to say I rly appreciate the positive and enthusiastic spin you put on your videos. The game isn't free from problems, but sometimes it feels like I'm hearing the same negativity and dooming from every direction when a new league is on the horizon. Your vids are a breath of fresh air in comparison
yep, best to stay away from reddit
@@herty123isn't that like common knowledge at this point? Twitter en Reddit are so infested with crybabies ("passionate fans")
Leave it to someone with a FFXIV avatar to have a wordy, overly positive statement.
You can take the mark wheel at the shadow area for the % increased damage vs marked enemy, and its same amount of points.
No culling tho. Culling is a 10% damage increase. Tremendous for boss finishing.
if you have +5 arrows from gear and tree you can completely eliminate GMP and replace with crit gem for example. So you lose the massive GMP damage nerf AND gain a huge crit bonus.
+5 isn't enough tho. you want at least a total of 8 arrows, so +7. If you are at 6 total (+5), then you could swap out GMP for LMP, but it's a big loss getting rid of any + projectile gem at only +5 arrows.
@@snocone5721 For LA, its really not necessary to have that many projectiles just to clear packs. After getting all your projectile nodes and deadeye proj, you have 5 proj. Having 5 proj on LA for clear will feel perfectly fine for screen coverage, especially if you have the +1 chain. Plus it shouldnt take THAT long to get +1 arrow on quiver for 6 total proj if it does feel a bit lacking. Plus an LMP is still a dps increase over GMP if you want to go that route and will make the build feel slightly stronger at the same number of projectiles as previous league.
The 6 shitty passive points you need to grab before those proj nodes hurt the most, but getting a large Thread of Hope for a couple div early on will do wonders for this build in the mid game. A massive ToH will be better late game, but before you have the levels (and currency) to support the passive skill points necessary, a large ToH is better in the ranger jewel slot. And in the very late game, just get the +1 proj notables on the crucible tree and its a gigantic upgrade from previous league and that allows you to still go the massive ToH WITH the additional projectiles. To make up for crit loss in the end game, get the crit medium jewels instead of the proj damage mid cluster jewels. The only awkward time in the build is that transition from mid game to uber late game. Getting the crucible notables on your bow is a bit annoying, and waiting for that before swapping to the massive ToH could create an awkward period in the build that didnt exist before. But then again, you will still be deleting content at this point anyways even with this slightly awkward transition time.
For TS, ya, you dont drop GMP early game. But one thing about TS is that you generally want at minimum 30 secondary arrows to feel like TS has reliable clear. Beforehand, this required you to get the helmet enchant and +1 arrow from quiver/bow/AwakenedGMP. This made the entry level requirements for TS very high to just FEEL good for screen clear reliability, let alone damage. Now, all you need to hit this breakpoint is a +1 quiver/bow or the helmet enchant, not both. And a +1 quiver is normally a lot cheaper and more accessible. So the entry level price went WAY down for TS. I think swapping to TS in your 80s after getting your +1 quiver should feel decent, but you can just chill and wait till you get your helmet enchant which is a HUGE upgrade for TS like you normally would anyways and the clear will feel even better then before.
@@TheSpencer1000 tbh, I was talking in the context of TS only as I didn't see a skill named. So we pretty much agree.
Heya Grim thanks for posting a video. hope you post more content your views are really insightful and quite impactful!
Are you planning on uploading a league starter + guide? I really liked yours in the past.
Travic has a LA guide inspired by Grim
Ikr, it was my starter, was such a good experience!
You're forgetting the biggest buff to endgame bow builds: the vengeant cascade changes.
edit: I was wrong, Tornado shot secondary projectiles cannot return. I still want to find out whether or not sniper's mark splits apply on both the outgoing and returning primary projectile.
I wish you post more videos in the future, Grim.. Your content is golden and you seems such a nice person that makes me more interested in seeing your videos. Have a great league start.
I don't know if Deadeye has been buffed for bows, but I think the projectiles on the tree mean that you can run bow builds on other ascendencies. Ice Shot Raider looks like it has potential. I'm personally going to be starting Ice Shot Trickster.
Lightning Arrow, I would definitely still go Deadeye.
Decent amount of cost in getting +2 arrows on tree with what it did to the nodes on Master Fletcher, but you also don't need to pay a double damage tax on your clear link via LMP or GMP (double in that you need to use a link on it and that you normally eat a %less damage penalty for using it). I think the accuracy might be the only thing you really notice early on, but you have a few easy ways to solve for it now.
What about the large thread of hope in the slot where the legion jewel is in the pob shown? Idk what the legion jewel provides but the thread there is also super high value, giving you the +2 proj, suppression, ele damage to attacks etc
That would be my plan aswell, you can get 8 good passives for 8 points that way.
Will you update the POB's for your Lightning Arrow + Artillery Ballista starter?
Probably yes, taking a look at them now.
@@Grimro LOGINNNNNNNNN
Where did u find the POB? You can´t share a link. So how to get the POB would be valuable info.
@@Grimro Oh yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
LOGIN
Finally Grim, I was waiting days for this video.🤣🤣🤣
nice vid as always
Heck yeah a new Grimro video LETS GO!
Great coverage.
Nice video, thank you!
Great walkthrough, I am so tempted to start an attack based bow build and the new bow support gem seems really interesting as well. I really like to see them allowing bows to be played more outside of a very high end investment build. :D 3.21 hype!
toxic rain likes to talk with you
Nice work on the video- see you Friday!
What do you guys think about the changes to the bow passives? Are you excited about the projectiles or sad about the reduction in stats?
Edit: One thing I forgot to mention is you can easily fix the accuracy loss by allocating the accuracy mastery and increasing your precision rank a little bit!
It's dope man, I've wanted to leaguestart bow for years and I have been finally fully baited into it
The really big thing is the leveling, it will hopefully feel so much smoother with Sniper's Mark and Faster Attacks being available so early. Also not needing GMP means we avoid a really big LESS multiplier on our 6L
@@GoldenFelix I think if you're playing lightning arrow, Ice Shot or Tornado Shot you would still use GMP
@@Grimro really? would 2 proj from the tree and 2 from deadeye not be enough?
Overall hyped about these changes.
Would you consider using large ring of hope to get the 2 projectiles without needing the bad travel nodes? There are some really good nodes in that ring, but its where you put your timeless jewel and you miss out on your other ring of hope- interested in what you think of that tradeoff
@@tommos1 with tornado shot built in shotgunning there really is no reason to drop gmp
I think the thing being forgotten by most saying this same thing is the following:
1. You no longer need to suffer the damage decrease from using GMP. That in itself KINDA sorts out the missing damage.
2. You USUALLY will be using a single target bow skill for boss killing so doing a little bit of math is quite easy. Lets say you at 100 damage. Losing the 40% you'd normally get from the master fletcher path, that puts you now at only 60 damage. But you get an extra arrow. So now its more like 60x2 damage as opposed to the old 100 which is a net buff in the end. Until the pathing behind Master Fletcher results in a net 50% less damage being added, you'll always come out on top. Its not a penalized arrow. So essentially, an extra arrow node is a x2 damage increase to the overall build. So essentially, they gave bows pathable x3 damage total in nodes as you'll get those 2 extra arrows.
3. Lets take a decent Deadeye single target boss killer, give her NO extra arrows and say her build caps at 1.5M damage to a boss on the old path. With the new path, those nodes not existing the same will probably only effect the damage down to 1.2M, but lets say it drops it 1M. The FULL DPS would be a result of 1mX3, which is now 3M damage. This is not how the nodes work but you get the gist of it. The nodes for damage increase only applies to your base amount of damage. The nodes for the arrows applies to your final damage number. No matter the cost to the % of base damage increase, a raw x2 or x3 will be far better. Go to Poe builder right now. Do whatever build you want. Finalize it. Then cheat on something, add nodes worth 150% increase in damage. Your damage will barely move. BUT if you simply add an extra arrow somewhere, the damage doubles. Its math folks.
Commenting without watching the vid. Answer: fuck yeah start bows!
Now I'll watch ;-)
Have a great league Grim.
Planning on league starting Palsterons TR ballista, been a while since played TR so should be fun :)
Hey Grim, why is there no mention of the potential of dropping GMP with the new nodes? That alone is a pretty huge buff for damage. Also, super excited for your league start video! I'm wondering if it'd be worth using the new mana arrow and putting in things like frenzy and ensnaring arrow. Maybe even dropping ballistas (freeing up so many points) and using a 6 link mana arrow set up.
He mentions why in another video. Basically he says the way he plays his bottle neck for screen clear is the amount of projectiles fired.
Grim have you heard from Fyregrass? He's been non-existent the past 2 months and I'm concerned because he usually makes a lot of content a week or so before the league start and he hasn't made any.
there is a cool mark mastery that transfers you mark to nearby enemy when the target dies, since mark on hit has like 4 sec cooldown it might be awesome for clear
Shouldn't affect clear at all. It's still only gonna be on one monster from the pack, you need enough damage to one shot the whole pack. One monster within the pack dying faster doesn't really accomplish much.
@@WelcomeBackMeHere well for snipers mark its some extra projectiles, also a lot of content has mobs spawning for some time, like abyss, might be nice there
In end game you can allocate both +proj nodes with large thread of hope, i think it should be much better then massive one you showed
It's at the cost of the timeless jewel.
@@Grimro worth!
@@Ilyak1986 I seriously doubt it. That timeless jewel is probably the most efficient pickup in most ranger builds. For my TS build, it's responsible for like 20% dps increase, plus it gives alchemist's genius which is very nice especially with mageblood (movement speed goes up by 8 percentage points). AND I'm getting 8% inc. life from it as well. And the dex from it brings my omni from 1k to 1.2k, which is included in the aforementioned 20% dps increase, but also without mageblood would probably go a long ways to helping cap resistances
I was going to play bows this league even before any of the announcements came out so this was just icing on the choice I had made.
Hey Grim, could we use the timeless jewel socket for thread of hope(large ring) to get Multishot and bow fire addional arrow(Bow wheel) nodes for endgame?
What about for something like Scourge arrow or Toxic rain? A poison build where the extra projectiles will add more poisons
I was surprised to see you as a Honkai Star Rail content creator ^^ GL with gacha channel
i never played with bows (2yrs of playing) im exited for this on. thnaks
If you haven't seen the large thread of hope in the ranger jewel socket u can take both arrows plus a ton of other good stuff
Any comments or speculations on CF TShot Glad?
No sir haven't played that build for quite some time.
Hey Grim, are you going to be doing LA raider again to start or just straight to deadeye?
Either i missed it but i dont think i heard you talk about using a large thread of hope in the socket right above the Fervour frenzy charge node. hits master fletcher, multishot, perfectionist, aspect of the eagle, quickstep, and primeval force.
You would lose the timeless jewel which in endgame is such an enormous blow I don't think you can recover from the losses assuming you go omniscience.
@@Grimro i planned on using that thread location to give scourge arrow pods better grouping because of the +2 proj and other goodies like spell suppression and ms. Moving mt timeless jewel to large cluster jewel spot.
Hello Grim! Do you Do you think LA league starter is viable for this league? I was looking for some related build and saw your 3.20 video and got really interested in trying it out. But i don't know how it will perform with all the changes
What do you think about Vengeant Cascade? Should be double DPS on most bow builds?
Would you still leaguestart this as a raider, or pathfinder/deadeye? Followed your google-doc last league and eveyrthing went smoothly, so I guess it's pretty much the same deal just with more umph now ? :P
give an answear please ;)
its kinda personal preference for a bow build. Im leaning towards PF as you can abuse life flask for easy sustain which allows you to do bosses much earlier, whereas deadeye is more for pure mapping and overgearing content and 1 shotting bosses once you are overgeared. If I don't like having to use life flask every 5 seconds for sustain i'll definitely swap deadeye and just map really fast and worry about bossing later.
The tree for all ascendancies is essentially the same, so it's not a big deal to respec.
What does the change to vengeant cascade mean to you in this context?
Are you going to be doing an updated guide for your league starter or will last league's video work just fine?
Mate, finally! how long we have to wait for your comment on the changes? :P Will you be posting a leag starter video on LA / AB?
I wish we had +2 generic proj on the tree instead of +1 generic and +1 bow... considering spectral throw and having an even number of projectiles will probably be really awkward for aiming.
Thanks for the information. I was passionately waiting for this video to go out :D.
Will you make a video about your league starting Build ? What ascendancy are you going to start ?
Do you have a trick about searching for good Timeless jewels on the market ? :)
its kinda funny that the new "bow attack" mastery that has +1 arrow is actually suuuuper sick for a melee build xd
Heii m8t thx a lot you show that bows are just smother i hope i get a vaal lightning i love lightning arrow♡ thx a bunch for that very good and informative video❤
I was wondering where Grimro's videos were.
Are you gonna slap out some updated PoB's before league start?
Finally, waited for this vid. The Bow bait is strong this time 😅
Im interested what that wander build was that u had up in the background
No mention of grabbing both extra arrows with a thread of hope?
Where can we find the 3.21 lightning arrow guide?
couldnt you ofset the passive points with a thread of hope in the area to get the 2 proj? or is the other thread of hope location just that much better?
but then you lose the timeless jewel which gives a fuck ton of dex and other stats, that timeless jewel when also paired with that thread of hope hits like 10-12 usable passives which is massive. For example if you rolled 20% damage on each passive thats 240% increased damage for a jewel slot, an extreme example but it shows how strong that timeless jewel can be. In no world are you trading that much power for +1 proj when theres so many ways to get projectiles.
I was thinking about ExpArrow Totem Ignite Elementalist, +2 arrows in early game sounds like good choice?
looking for a build with ice shoot and Vengeance cascade and the new Manaforged arrows . I think u can double u main set up with the new trigger gem
What do you think about using a Large Thread of Hope to get Multishot, Master Fletcher, Primeval Force, One With Nature, Quickstep, King of the Hill, Perfectionist and potentionally Piercing Shot/Split Shot in the earlier stage to save some points and sitll get all of those notables?
Maybe even 1 Large and 1 Massive? Sure it would be absolutely insane, but you could save several points overall. And with good gear and Omni or so I think it COULD be somewhat viable.
I should theorycraft that a bit :D
you would have to give up the timeless jewel, and if you get a good one it can be really strong
@@retryz7218 oh yeah. Totally forgot about the timeless jewel.
I habe to think more about that.
omni needs that timeless jewel there though
Can we get a Grim tornado shot starter build video? :)
May I ask you why everyone chooses raider ascendancy for RoA start instead of deadeye? I get it that raider has more defences but onslaught and phasing we can get from a flask, however gathering winds, far shot, focal point and occupying force are a huge dps boost that's unobtainable for raider
I really want to choose deadeye as damage is usually a bottle neck at league start but I don't get why no one's doing it
can just play deadeye if you prefer it, plenty of people playing deadeye and its the more popular choice in the end game anyway for bowbuilds
you can use thread of hope large where your lethal pride is and you can get all the good bow nodes and save points kinda nutz.
but then you use a timeless jewel...?
@@MyNameIsSalo if you need the attributes you can move the timeless jewel to the jewel socket next to supreme ego
Pog new video
9:40 "pretty much every point you take is like 8 to 10% more dmg, when you're on endgame bow build"
this is nonsense
you get 3% per point
This is false. On an endgame omni tornado shot build or any end game projectile build for that matter it is 8-10% per node in end game.
@@Grimro very easy for anyone to demonstrate that this is false, just load any ts mb build from pob, no matter if you take the #1 dps 95M or you scroll down to the bottom
and wow look at that, there's only 4 notables in the entire tree that give 8-10%, and they have travel nodes, so they're not 8-10% per point. Heartseeker + mastery? 16% in 4pts. King of the hill? 5.5% per point. Medium cluster jewel with repeater + eye to eye: 12% for 4pts.
8% more dmg is 70% to 100+% increased damage. The idea that you get the equivalent of 70%+ inc dmg per point is obviously stupid
i feel like so many people will get baited to play elemental bow league starters and find out that it requires some decent gear to get anywhere. in t14+ maps, league start bow builds fall off a cliff and need some dedication to get back up. it's the only archetype i really enjoy and i can league start it just fine, but there will be lots of salt.
The only real rough part is getting a fractured tri ele spine bow then the build is A ok in my opinion.
@@Grimro Well, we are gonna have the new mechanic as well, so gotta keep that in mind. Might be a huge power boost
@@martinvasilev6088 yea, can't wait for what that will bring to the table
That is just wrong, vengeance cascade is 100% more damage buff in most cases, bow tree and +2 proj alongside vaal skills. Bows will be good.
Where the build guide at Grimmy?
okay, Ive been seeing this around a lot lately, but why is getting an additional arrow equivalent to losing damage?
What are your thoughts on frenzy, gmp, manaforged arrow and optionally power charge on crit for permanent uptime of charges? Not sure if you can fit 4 gems though
Manaforged Arrows seems very insane in its own 4L/second 6L if you can just balance your other 6L to be more than 3x the mana cost. This happens a lot on bow skills because very often the mana cost is down in the single digits anyway. This way you can effectively cast it every single time you attack with your main skill. I think rather than use it for Frenzy/PCoC it is best used as literally just a supplement to clear or perhaps single target to help kill leftover rares when your TS/IS/LA kills the rest of the pack.
Something like 4L Manaforged - Barrage - 120% Support Gem - Divergent Inspiration costs ~17 mana whereas your average 6L Tornado Shot might cost around 40.
But, if you put a -8 total mana cost ring on, suddenly these costs go down to 9 and 32, so every time you use your 6L, you will cast your 4L mana cost for free.
Having a strong single target supplement like that on every single attack could be very strong.
You can even probably balance two 6L if one of them is using Anomalous GMP + Divergent Inspiration while the other doesn't. This way, whenever you attack with one 6L you're attacking with the other one for 'free'.
@@Asch_Ente I agree, it might be a good alternative to ballistas.
Playing manaforged frenzy in the early game frees up some useful stuff though before you have a reliable way of getting frenzy charges such as on a quiver. You can drop blood rage and dont have to deal with the degen and you can take marked enemies cannot crit instead of frenzy charges as a mark mastery.
Is the removal of extra arrows from synth implicits a major impact?
Only if you were a player that managed to get them.
Hi Grimro, do you think the popular bow skills (ice shot, lightning arrow, TS) will benefit from the new vengeance cascade notable?
For example, ice shot + chain support + vengeant cascade
@@ChubbyPOE Hmmm tornado shot not so much Nimis atleast broke tornado shot horribly it was terrible.
@@Grimro Yah, I knew TS doesn't work, but maybe ice shot can work properly as a normal projectile skill
Tornado shot actually does benefit on single target, as long as you're point blank on enemies. That said, it's 100% more damage for stuff like barrage, shrapnel ballista (which arrow nova juices to the moon) and lightning arrow/ice shot.
I really want to try a raider TS ele with omni and forbidden flesh/flame for endless munitions, but not sure about the dmg.
And i dont know that will happen with Adenaline node.
Adrenaline node (I assume your talking about the mastery) is gone. It was in a recent faq update changed to +6s to cool down and remove ailments(damaging?) when changing stance. As you can see without a crapton of CDR your not going to be able to stance swap frequently enough to reliably remove ailments.
16 sek cooldown now.
@@Al_Does_Stuff dang it!
no mention on the large thread of hope in that jewel spot ?
I'm not a fan of that one personally.
Would a bow build such as lightning arrow be good for crucible and blight? I’m a little concerned about single target damage and squishiness.
Towers can do all your damage in blight, you don't even need to attack if you set your towers up smart.
Interesting video as usual. I saw havoc speedrunning with lightning arrow on ballista totem, worse than artillery?
Hm well I like artillery personally but who can say! maybe try both out.
huge respect for havoc, he has been my main inspiration for starting LA the past 5 leagues, but LA totem is just straight up worse imo
Maybe in an act 10 speedrun there’s some merit to it for very slightly better clear or something, but for raw damage/single target AB is so much better
unironically bow league! wake up honey, new grimro video!!
Would you say that playing ele bow in group ssf (4 ppl) is a bait? Well it was always a bait before, could be as 2nd character but not starter. Maybe the Artillery ballista ele ssf starter could be viable? I will be heister of our small group and cant decide on good raider build for heist, wanted to do TR but diadem drop nerfed for early ssf.
Never played SSF sorry brother best ask someone who's more experience with that mode.
dont do it. ele bows are only really good with bought drops, otherwise TR/CA raider or other builds are way better
I thought you didn't want gmp with lightning arrow and ice shot now?
Got that POB tho?
for someone like me who rarely does super juiced ultra endgame 100div builds and content and just kinda alch and go yolo whatever content im feeling like
those +2 nodes with a deadeye is gonna be amazing XD
Bow builds got plus 2 arrows but damn that cost was hefty.
+1 arrows on crucible tree as well ;) it was only tier 3 I think
massive thread of hope is trade only thing. In ssf I like to have other options
YOOOOO WHAT'S UP GRIM, GUYS HERE
the question is ... raider or deadeye for start
You going to drop an updated starter tree or not bother?
will you release an updated buildguide?
in vid form or just as pob?
Oh man! What a better league start than soulwrest this'll be.
We should start what we enjoy playing and makes us happy 😅
I've been league starting with bows for the last 5 years.
My oniy fear is that given how many posts I see about bow starters, LA etc. on the poebuilds subreddit I'm scared the prices of fractured spine bow bases will go through the roof.
lol, theres not THAT many ppl visiting poe builds subreddit.. i would be more afraid of youtube videos with 200k+ views like toxic rain, this is what drives the prices up, gl playing that
@@ProMikusrip quill rain most likely 😂
toxic rain ballista the absolute king of delayed gameplay. Put down ballista > wait for ballista to shoot > wait for toxic rain to land > wait for toxic rain to explode > wait for toxic rain to ramp up in damage.
biggest bait build ive ever seen in my life
last league I got multiple T2 fractured ele spine bows for 2div each around the 24 hour mark, T3 high roll was like 50c
despite the popularity this league being WAY higher, I don’t think the price will increase that much early on.
Vast majority of the new people playing this build are not going to be buying fractured spines on day 1/2 so as long as you’re ahead of the curve you’re good
"Should You League Start Bows? " HELL YEAH
Grim you are looking more healthy 😊
Very very cool indeed
my 3.21 tree still fine, got 100 hit rate 100 crit, same as 3.2 15mil dps IF I get decent bow into my hands xD im just worried about few alt gems more than other stuff
Maybe use a large thread of hope on the timeless jew socket , and find another socket for timeless?
League start build guide when - Brakthir
You can swap GMP for LMP and thats a decent dmg boost
If youre not playing ts
@@elantonelle agree
You did say "not accounting Crucible" but I think that the issues you mentioned about skill points and extra arrows are going to be balanced out by getting these nodes for free on the crucible trees...
Well first of all those trees are around only for this league, so it's still worth considering how this affects the base game. You also can't reliably get those trees during league start, so that's still affected. AND the good ones might be expensive even after league start, we don't really know how available the good nodes are, they might be expensive.
The damage against Marked enemies got moved to a new cluster above Fatal Toxins, which we path next to anyway
Hmmm not sure we have the points :(
Large thread of hope and get both arrows and save some points.
I don't get why you talk about having 7 projectiles as a bow character early, didn't you say Raider was better early ? So we're essentially not Deadeye until mid/late-ish.
Reasonable point, noted.
@@Grimro no worries, thanks for helping with these videos, haven't started bow for years and this is definitely helping either way!