The moment Josh "chair" Hayes took control for a minute was my favorite portion of the video. Although the man didn't say much, everyone in the audience could definitely feel his presence.
PoE is the biggest pay to win game in the industry. You support GGG and in return they give an insane amount of support and content for years and years. There is no bigger player win.
This: it's a community pay 2 win. The community pays. Those with less disposable income buy a stash tab or nothing. Those with a lot of disposable income spend a few grand.
@@bingbong8961 Its pay to win as in you pay them, and they give you more and more game than any other company on the planet. you win cause you have a fun game. you dont win the game.
This is exactly how game releases SHOULD feel btw. Games being ready when they are actually finished and not rushed out and then the other half is sold to us as DLC.
They been firing shots at blizzard for a while now. D2 was the number one inspiration for the company originally and since then blizzard has been entirely profit focused. And keep in mind, GGG is partially owned by tencent with a slightly different experience on chinese servers.
@@ExiledVessel The experience on the chinese servers is very different with regards to p2w. But it's because those servers are ran by Tencent unlike the western servers which GGG naturally run Tencent is also the majority holder of GGG with over 80% of the shares
@RickCarleton To be fair its the Monk's Mantra for that ascendancy node where it's part of his mantra going I am the Blizzard, I am the Storm, I am the Rage,etc. But the subtle use of it being repurposed for throwing shade at Blizzard the company is also funny.
Yep, sadly this is an anomaly We get a working game with endgame and when you want to go in early access you pay for key by buying point you might need anyways From d4 bad to d4 dead
The biggest thing for me that they could've add would be in-game builder that you can share on boards in-game. So I can slap someone elses build with two clicks and be done with that insane skill tree.
Let's not forget they litteraly delayed the entire game for 3 weeks just so they could perfectly transition all MTX you had bought over the last 10 years of POE1 to POE2. Not because they had to, but because they respected the players money spent enough to do so.
and also respected the time spent. because im sure some of those players never spent a dime, but spent hours of missed birthdays and anniversaries just to get their characters perfect.
i knew about the cosmetics, but the stash tabs as well?? that is almost too good to be true. i hope they earn enough money with all of this... it is truly remarkable
1k + spender here and feels the same for my time and money. Slots are the least p2w that exist in the 3A games now, would it be nice if new acc came with a few premium tabs (costomizibel tabs that also makes getting into trader easier) yes, but they don't need to. Even if I had not paid for D4 and the 100h I spent in that game I would still feel ripped of, you may like that game I dont and sure as fuck wont pay for expansions etc...
My favorite part of the vid was when josh 'chair' hayes took over for a minute. Dude didn't say much, but his presence was surely felt by all who were watching.
I swear some people think a games p2w if they have to pay anything for it or if they can only get 99% of whats in the gane for free.. If you want to see real p2w download any pvp focused gacha and youll finally understand what p2w means while you experience whale wars irl.
The crazy thing is, for PoE, even you are only happy with getting 99% of the game for free, you still should be happy with GGG monetization, because that's exactly the case. Stash Tabs aren't even 1% of the game, and cosmetics are just.... cosmetics?
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These are basically entitled Karens "I want everything free and I wont give a cent" Also guess what, they don't care if you play, you are just taking server space. There are 3 types of "p2w" Power, which is the most egregious one. Time skip, getting something faster and convenience stash tabs. Convenience and time skip are slippery slopes as it encourages designers to intentionally make the game longer or inconvenient for you to pay, but something HAS to give in a vast majority of games if you want to run a business. Best thing is of course cosmetics, but running on those alone is hard because you have people like me who don't give a flying fuck about them, but I will gladly buy some convenience. Then there is an argument of capped and uncapped p2W, can you sink in 1k and still get more power out of sinking in another 1k well yea that's basically uncapped, or is the game asking of you 60€ which would be the box price anyway and that is all you can gain. They want to give a free game so it has a player base and you get to try it but they need money and as Josh said, asking for 20€ for a hobby you got to enjoy for a long time is NOTHING. Go out and do literally anything fun and see how fast you get over 20€...
I mean I'm living proof that PoE isn't "pay to win." I spent $60 on the "Master Soulstealer Pack" in 2018 and that's the only purchase on my account. I paid the equivalent of a AAA game price (actually less since AAA is now $70-80) and I haven't spent a penny since. If the game was P2W then I should have had to re-up and pay again and continue do to so. For a game that some people like to call P2W it's strange how I've managed to get away with only spending $60 on it in over 8 years of playing.
"PoE is pay to win" was always a bold statement in my eyes. The only thing that is actually necessary, and it is only if you want to dig deep into late game, are stash tabs. Wich, on a week-end sale, would cost you what... 30 money? The rest is purely cosmetic. And i'm pretty sure that level of content is worth more than that.
Yeah, precisely. 1 30$ supporter pack and you are set pretty much forever(buy tabs on sale). Little more maybe if you want extra comfort. (haven't bought tabs in a long time not sure how much exactly it comes out to)
@@HiddenStr3ngth Exactly. I'm living proof that PoE isn't "pay to win." I spent $60 on the "Master Soulstealer Pack" in 2018 and that's the only purchase on my account. I paid the equivalent of a AAA game price (actually less since AAA is now $70-80) and I haven't spent a penny since. If the game was P2W then I should have had to re-up and pay again and continue do to so. For a game that some people like to call P2W it's strange how I've managed to get away with only spending $60 on it in over 8 years of playing.
I do think its a bit pay to win, but I don't think its egregious. They are very fair with stash tab prices and they are even making it carry over between games. I would definitely agree to free to play games adopting this type of system as long as they don't purposely fill your bank up with trash to force you to buy extra tabs like some Korean MMOs have been doing.
@@willo1345 It's not, the comment above just explained why. You cannot buy character power, therefore it's not pay to win. Just because a game has microtransactions doesn't automatically mean it's p2w. That's not what p2w means.
@@Lucas-sk5iy i always find it funny that it is called pay to win since you basicly shorten your time on a game eergo your paying to lose even if you could buy a perfect build in the store whats the point of it, than there is no need to farm anything since you allready have the perfect build
@AMabud-lv7hy With a completely separate Chinese client to fully abide by their norms, Tencent is perfectly happy with their investment (and profit as PoE has done nothing but grow). Tencent has never meddled with how GGG runs their western client, the Tencent fear mongering is a weird stance imo.
@@GavrynGamingyeah, i think people didn't realize tencent did that *because* they wanted control of china client. That is it. It's very profitable to leave GGG alone so why would they mess with it.
@@DarthMizaru A lot of people think poe 1 is bloated with content. I'm sure a lot of people would enjoy a clean slate PoE with just new content. I personally like that they added some of the old league content in it, I just hope they don't add too much and leave some space for new content as well. I believe a lot of the content in poe 1 right now isn't really making the game better.
I think something that may have happened is that people saw this stream, and there was no disclaimer during the supporter packs that it was purely cosmetic. People probably saw "this item erects a magical barrier around your character" or "drop a giant stone totem" and thought it actually functioned. It's a weird thing to leave out since normally they clarify that supporter packs are fully cosmetic.
2:20 I couldn't disagree more. I want as much content as possible. I'll wait longer for the most epic game ever instead of a feature stripped husk like Diablo 4.
I think all of the talk about p2w is lowkey kinda good. It tells me that poe2 is actually reaching a new audience. If it were just poe1 veterans this conversation wouldn't be happening because we know better.
No, vets know that playing without currency, maps and shards tabs you are in "trial/demo", functionally unplayable the same way D4 is as a "service" as activision wants to lie about it for anyone that actually tries to get any value out of that 60 or 70 bucks neoblizz scam.
Things to remember if you're a new Path of Exile user : 1. It's free. You get the whole campaign and the end game for free. 2. Do you NEED to pay for stash expansion? No. 3. Is it helping a lot? Yes, it's highly recommended, but after "trying out" their game for about 30 hours+, paying like 10+$ (after each content expansion, they have a sale a week after, it's super cheap) is a joke for the amount of hours you can put it.
As an aside, the POE 2 early access supporter packs are no different than the other supporter packs GGG have put out for POE 1. The only difference is that in this new set of supporter packs, you get POE2 early access with it. I do think its important to mention that the early access is meant for testing the game and GGG being able to fix things and make adjustments so that things are in a good place when POE 2 officially releases. And POE2 will be free to play when it releases.
Whats more, along with the money spend for access, you get as credits for microtransactions. There is no fee *just* for access, you get access AND microtransactions. It's insanely fair.
It's funny how this game is free to play and when they ask for "support", suddenly becomes p2w. Just think about the amount of money you have spent on things that you probably never remember, or barely remember instead of giving those guys 30$. Absolutely 100% justified support.
I've bought a lot of mtx for the sole reason of supporting GGG They've made and maintained my favorite game for a DECADE And look what they did with that money! Now I want to give them even more, honestly
@@prosamis big same tbh I've been playing every league like clockwork since, like, 2013? (2.0. Played a bit before, but much less in depth) and am probably solidly in the 10k+ hours played. (I don't even want to know the actual number) As long as the game makes me happy, I'll give it money, when it stops making me happy, I'll stop playing (and giving money), it's as simple as that in the end
So, I played my first league of PoE with Settler's. I'm laid off, so I can't justify spending money at all, but I did buy an extra stash tab and premium tab for a total of $15. I have several toons at 95 and a CI LS Trickster at 98 with a 500d+ build and all i have left to finish the content this league are the Ubers which I will do this weekend. You don't need to spend hundreds of dollars to win because all the things you purchase are cosmetic or QoL features. It's not P2W at all.
I watched the divine trade an flipped a lot. Power runes as well. For example, I have a power rune up for sale for 520c on Faustus. If I were to sell it as soon as I got it, it's only 400c. I did the same with divines. As for currency farms, Catarina with Betrayal, Betrayal Intelligence and reinforcement scarabs coupled with a harvestr scarab and doubling scarab. This worked out well. Also, Harbis with three harbi scarabs, Regency and warhoard. Third, harvest with cornucopia, doubling, lineage and dusk fragment for quantity and pack size. All three running blue altars. I also farm Flesh and Flame and light of meaning jewels. With flipping, I might spend 100d a day to make 150 over three days with Faustus. I only run t16 8mods, City Square, Glacier and Strands. I sell all my t17's to guildies at .5 divine each even if at bulk. Saves times in the long run having to fuck with the site or TfT's discord.
I think it is but I don't think its bad in POE. Its very fair in POE. I like to be consistent with my view of monetization because I see a lot of people call games with monetization p2w unless they like it and will find any way to reason how it isn't p2w. Just look at lotro defenders, you can literally buy instant teleports to quest objectives that have been purposely separated to be as inconvenient to reach as possible to entice you to buy more currency. You can even just straight up max legendaries with hundreds of dollars, but they will try to move heaven and earth to convince you that, no, its actually not p2w. The real answer is that it IS p2w but they love the game so they can't admit that it is.
alternatively, they just have a different definition of an incredibly nebulous term. personally, i would count it as p2w, but i count almost everything as p2w and care much more about the impact of the paid content on the game.
If the game had a box price but came with more stash tabs would that make it less p2w? At least right now you get to play the game for quite a while before you need to spend any money on it, so you can decide if it's worth the $ or not.
@@willo1345 PoE isn't P2W though. You can literally play through the entire game if you wanted to without buying anything. Now does having a handful of extra tabs and the specialty tabs like currency, maps, etc. help? Yeah, but guess what? I've spent $60 total on PoE and I've been playing for 8ish years. Only purchase I've ever made was the $60 supporter pack back in Delve league and I got a sick glowing blue armor set and I used the $60 of points they give you to buy a currency tab, 2 premium tabs, a map tab and spent the rest on basic normal tabs. Same price spent as a AAA game and I haven't had any reason or need to buy more. PoE isn't pay to win because you can play the game through all, if not, the majority of the end game perfectly fine. I was playing the game for like a year and a half (sparingly) before buying that $60 supporter pack using that poe acquisition desktop app that was janky. To me I didn't know if I actually liked the game so I used that app instead of premium tabs. It worked just fine. You could get away with spending even less if you wanted to. You could just buy the map and currency tab and maybe 1 premium tab and you'd be set for what the average experience level PoE play would experience. The fact that you can play through the majority of the game including well into red maps before truly feeling the restraint of the 4 starter tabs they give you is a sign the game is good and fair. They don't hinder you for not continuing to financially support either. As I said I spent $60 like what, 7 years ago now and I have the exact same player experience as someone who's spent thousands or tens of thousands.
The only thing thats upsetting here is that the artbook is gated behind the top tier pledge. Don't care for most of the stuff included there but damn do I want that book :v
Yeah me too, especially since I want to do concept art. I plan on getting or upgrading to it eventually, but I hope they consider selling it standalone
I was literally just saying this yesterday about how GGG monetizes PoE is possibly one of the best way to do it in the modern gaming age. However, it is pretty objectively agreed that the stash tabs are considered PtW. But like you said, after a couple hundred hours of playing the game and realizing how good it is, you feel almost compelled to support them and buy some tabs.
I'm just hyped that the MTXs are carrying over to the sequel. My supporter packs and skins won't go to waste. Who even heard of a company doing this? GGG certainly earned it's respect.
@@kalestiyapetrovna9962 you can use the legacy gems, but for only up to half of the purchase. if i'm understanding Smite's news post correctly. my reward for a decade of playing smite is a 50% discount on the things i already purchased?
GGG is great. playing poe since 2014 and i bought cosmetics multiple times just because i wanted to support them. i never felt scammed, they were never greedy and they never disappointed me. in GGG i trust
I have spent around 2500 USD on poe and have 8529 hrs in the game. That comes out to 29 cents per hour. I would say that is very good value to money spent.
i love that josh goes "they heard people complaining about no endgame and took that very personally", and then they literally come and say EXACTLY the same thing
like world famous PoE loving giga grinder Ster says: All the choices on the tree are either Health or Damage. If you die too much, choose health. If things don't die fast enough, choose Damage.
I bust my back doing hard labour and during the more than 5 years it took me to get back on my feet PoE was one of those things that kept me sane. Because my income went poof I could not buy much, but what in-game stuff I did buy I never did regret. I started playing PoE at Open Beta, and still enjoy the game. Not many games I still play after a decade. I am so looking forward to 10 more years in PoE II.
There are D4 fans angry in the comments bashing POE players and it's silly. A lot of us POE players also play D4, and we all know the game is stale. Blizzard can use a kick in the ass to make D4 better and POE2's competition will light a fire at Blizzard. The realmwalker season is ROUGH.
Are there D4 fans? 70 dollar base price, season pass, paid expansion, and tons of cosmetic nickel and diming. That's before we get to the terrible campaign, boring low effort end game and seasons. Microsoft and blizzard only care about squeezing money out of players not providing any meaningful content.
Irony is, mid stream people argued me wanting PoE2 to improve its clarity (and the necessity of the currency, maps and _insert_third_tab_depending_on_playstyle_or_quadstack_) of store value/remove its dark pattern cycle, promo of the basic tab and allow stackable items to fully stack in inventory as they should is "shilling for D4". The point is that those are things that remind new players of the shitshow that is the actiblizz scam/is on the same level of petty cash nipping when GGG doesnt need to do any of it to turn a profit.
It's funny how i HATE micro-transactions, even in free games, and even for cosmetics. But Path of Exile gets a pass that i didn't even realize i was giving it. Goes to show what making an actually good game as a respectable game company does for player moral.
on GGG: the main complaint from me is the scale of cost on their monetization--a single costume costs as much as an entire other AAA game+season pass. they could cut that in half and it would STILL be a tough sell, especially with as buggy as many of them are (and the "underhanded" tactic of being unable to truly preview MTXs--that said, contacting customer service to get those refunded is barely an inconvenience, since they have the quickest-acting and most responsive CS i've ever encountered, by a WIDE margin). and that the game is poorly optimized in several ways, and (at least under chris) EXTREMELY unwilling to change in many regards to those (such as a blatant and noted lack of options to turn off/down particle effects for performance reasons, being blocked because chris wilson thinks that people would just turn them off entirely--which is itself telling about the entire situation) that said: despite those its STILL a great game and im greatly looking forward to the early access, which i'm absolutely going to take part in.
About "disable particles" toggle... Tell me, in which part Chris is not right? Give them an option to toggle them off, and they will do it. Idk what is your experience, but i do know people that already use external tools to cut down basically every visual effect that game has. PAID tools (with cost per season). Which simultaneously counts as breaking TOS, but they still do it. If you give easily accessible option of "do this to perform better", these no-life games will eventually take it almost 100% of times. That's just how it works. And that's why adding this option is not really an option to consider.
@@DimkaTsv if your game has such a problem with particle effects that you KNOW that people will do away with them the second they get the opportunity (rather than something that players enjoy the spectacle of)... perhaps that displays that your game has an issue regarding the subject that needs to be addressed, and you (as the dev in this scenario) are more or less openly admitting as such by stating that.
As someone who thinks 3 or 4 times about actually buying a big Game for like 50€, really pondering about if I will get a playtime worth that amount of money. I've played almost 5000 hours of PoE and spend roughly 400 bucks on it. It started to become my benchmark, if I don't get a hundred hours of decent fun out of a game, then it's just not worth 50 or even 70 bucks for me. I'd rather hop back to PoE, play a league for a hundred hours and spend another 20 bucks to make my character look cooler. It's possibly the best and fairest monetization I've ever experienced in roughly 16 years of playing videogames.
same-ish for me. I expect a minimum of 1 hour of "good time" per 1€ I spent. If it is really Effing good it MAY go up to 2€/h. But anything beyond is "nope won't buy! maybe when its on discount for the price I would pay." Though keep in mind that hours played are not neccessarily equal to hours of "good time"
A Dollar/Pound/Euro per hour of playtime is such a bad benchmark though, and as someone else said are all of those accumulated hours "good" play time? I say this as someone with over 2500 hours in games like Destiny and Runescape. I'll take a $20 game that's five or six hours long these days over a AAA $70 game with 100+.
I mean you literally don't have to spend a dime if you don't want to. If you don't want to or just aren't interested right now you don't have to. This is JUST for Early Access aka beta testing effectively. The full game is going to be free and the majority of your purchases in PoE 1 will carry over like stash tabs and MTX. If you're not compelled to play it now just wait for the full release when it is free to play.
This is so funny... people are going "this game is pay to win because I have to pay money for early access" ..... When you pay 30$ you get 30$ of in game credit... to literally buy the only thing that would matter in PoE/PoE2 bank space. And offers you more than 30$ worth of game. Damn... What a horrible company.....
Never been more comfortable n willing on spending $480 for a game...........thanku GGG for giving us a sequel to our beloved game n its crazy to think this may be bette than its predecessor n more that its just the beginning.....WERE BACK!!
Hahaha, your reaction is priceless! Can't wait to play it too! 3k hours in POE1 and I still have no clue what I'm doing! Now finally I will not feel like a fool! :)))) P.S. I consider P2W a system that allows you to buy with real money items of power. Not present in POE1 neither in POE2. The Stash Tabs, currency tabs etc, are just "items" that will allow you to stash more items/currency, which are used in crafting. But other than that, there is no pay for power.
I hope this clicks for me, I wanted to like PoE but much like Warframe the games systems are so all over the place and the gameplay is just off enough I end up burning out on it after a while and don't want to play anymore.
poe is not an esay game but if you do get good at it the game the payoff is youll be able to pick up any other video game that revolves around you making a build and doing damage and do well in it.
I never played PoE outside of some story waaaaaay back when it was in early access with a friend. The amount of content they just kept showcasing as I was watching with friends, it was like mind numbing. They did mention that several of these were from seasons within PoE1, but still that is like a brain overload for me lol. I do hope to try it out though, at least i have some friends to answer all the dumb questions I'll be asking.
@cckmanofsteel2393 if you're okay with a never ending economy it's definitely worth a look. My problem is all the good stuff from like 6 years ago still apply today. So I've run out of things to really want to chase after. You get to a point where you just one shot things... and if you don't it's just a angrily long to take down because of phases like Innocence in act 5.
@@cckmanofsteel2393 outside of the WF's support team being kinda lame(I've heard people getting perma banned over some blunder in chat, like being "insensitive" about woke lgbtq stuff. basically chat mods accusing them of being bigots over mundane stuff) everything else from WF is very nice. Do remember that game is a power fantasty game. it starts difficult and interesting up unti lyou become ultra OP and clap everything without anything doing damage to you, and it's not in the same sense you get to the point in POE, it's an inevitable point for any casual player that's played the game enough(no seasona lresets all content just becomes trivial and you have to limit yourself if you want any sort of challenge). The game does offer excellent customization, fast paced zoomy gameplay with a lot and I mean a lot of creative ways to dispatch hordes of enemies with, combining several even at once for a lot of effect, do goofy crazy setups + a lot of QoL and "hub" features to interact or pass time in like doing hoverboard races or whatever + interesting singly player story content. Basically if you want a hard game, like a scary R2D2 type 3rd person shooter where stuff gets gradually harder(so not that far off POE in a sense minus the ARPG thing) WFs not for you. But if you want a power fantasy with a ton of cool ways to customize your characters arsenal, looks, a huuuuge amount of different types of enemies, zones and content to do this in AND quality well made single palyer story on top(they have put a lot of effrot on this. it's good) then check it out. I personally really enjoy challenge so I don't play WF much, but all the other good things in the game make me visit it for a week or two every year or so approximately. It's a very well made game just one more to chill in, not one to cvhallenge yourself
One thing I wanted in PoE 1 was a swingable weapon like a chakram or axe on a whip, a flail if you will but I couldn't find one. PoE2 seems to have them and I can't wait to try it! Especially if I can dual wield flails like a whirlwind of blade and/or if there's a giant hat cosmetic in game I can wear. (I like to wear 1 oversized hat in mmo's nor just to stand out but because I love how goofy they look). If PoE2 has 2 or even 3 of these, I'll probably be on it for a long, long time!
I never got into POE because it felt too overwhelming after it's been out for a few years. POE2 seems overwhelming before it's even out, can't say I'm shocked lmao.
first game, I gave up after looking at the skill tree, and how often i hear things like "how can i fix my build" and the solution is "make a new character" I'll probably just stick with grim dawn and last epoch for now
Yup unless they fix this its not going to draw in the casual audience and thats not really a problem not every game has to be for everyone. Also get ready for the veteran player replys of "its not that complicated bro"
Another really important thing to note is that the "P2W" that exists in POE (buying stash tabs) has been actively developed to be LESS "P2W". For instance, every new league that comes out if there are new items introduced you get a free stash for those items. Also, everything purchased in poe 1 will transfer to 2 and vice versa. The monetization strategy for POE with the amount of game you get is probably the most fair model in the entire industry.
The best way to describe playing without stash tabs is playing a free trial. You won't need more inventory space till the very endgame and during the endgame the player can decide whether they like the game enough to spend XYZ money on it. It's a clever strategy imo. Some people expect the game to be truly Free-To-Play though and I can't blame them for disliking this aspect of the game.
Twas exactly my argument. But the issue is in PoE1, bulk of the campaign is filler (90% of people that played since release or hideouts/masters or fossils or delve or synthesis or pick any random point dont even bloody know what the lore of the gems is, why scion is where she is when new players unlocked her or even that she isnt there as a choice from the start, what the order side plot is and most maybe start to pay attention when sin and innocence get introduced due to mandatory yap sessions or know about the bandits more than the vaal simply because the points matter and vaal associates to the orbs, the instant lifesteal ks or the kill-charge-variant of gems), almost all dropped resource items dont stack or stack at most up to 20 despite them being able to go to massive amounts (hell just finishing the campaign while vendoring drops with no recipies or care you will end with the basics in the 8000~3000s depending on usage) and have been able to since the beta and the stores being set to make people without someone that understands whats good (and when to buy it) to pinch pennies/scam for cash that GGG doesnt need as people are willing to pay for the supporter packs AND CW stated way back a few times that the supporter packs and visuals are the main revenue source; yet nobody wanted to acknowledge any of it.
So for the power you can actually buy in the shop - Stash tabs and such are only really needed for when you get to trading and mapping. The base game of 10 acts is actually amazing and you do not have to worry about stash space for that at all. You start with the equivalent of 5 Diablo 2 stashes. When you start needing space, you'll probably have played a whole game's worth of content. Getting all stash tabs amounts to about 50-60 bucks iirc (outside sales), if you even want them.
If or when you do decide to buy something, I highly recommend getting some sort of pack instead of just buying the mtx currency. That way you get the mtx currency to buy tabs AND a bunch of mtx to deck your guy out. It's a way better deal. Hold out for a cool pack and then wait to buy tabs until a sale!
I mean the people seeing $480 are just seeing a big number and thinking they have to reach that amount to get in. You only have to buy a $30 supporter pack to get in. Shit is dirt cheap lmao.
@@YuYuYuna_ also why is there even a reaction at all? the early acces gives you nothing i dont even know how much earlier youre allowed to play because i couldnt care less if its 1 day or 1 week youre able to play an AAA game for absolutly free by just waiting a bit longer. if they make a fantastic game and people who have the money to spare are willing to give them 500 bucks than good on them all the f2p users should thank those because its because of them they can play the game without spending anything.
@@garhong9125 yeah ive found that out too that its about 6 months ish doesnt matter to me either but it makes the 30 bucks offer alot more tasty for sure haha :D
It doesn't surprise me that much they felt so much the need to have large amounts of content. It's a common problem of sequels to live-service games : the new game has to compete with years of content updates. This is especially true for Path of Exile, which has kept expanding exponentially ever since they released the game. League mechanics at the beginning didn't add much, they could just be a bunch of special enemies added on maps with maybe exclusive drops, now they come with new areas, NPCs, bosses, items types and mechanics. Of course, part of the reason at the time was that they were more focused on fleshing out the core content, once this was done they pivoted hard on those deep independent systems with each its own flavor. Mechanics like ascendancies trials and mapping which didn't exist at launch but have come to be defining features of PoE were pretty much expected. Trials also needed a complete rework to be more in line with their modern endgame content. Still, it's hilariously overkill how many systems they have already in place, they didn't need to have what is essentially several years worth of league mechanics ready, that's what the beta is for.
Thank you for lowering the value of the background audio while speaking, I can't deal with the recordings of people talking at the same time as the stream both at full volume.
Why my steam wish-list consists of in 95% of "unfinished" or early acces games ? I want to play this... sorry not done yet. I want to play that. Sorry, still in EA, final experience may vary.... So how many years it will take for PoE2 to be out of EA ? Ehh.... I already done Last Epoch while it was in EA and I am not makeing same mistake again... I want to play something that is "done" :/
The only thing thats "missing" from this are 6 classes and 3 acts. The rest is a fully playable and enjoyable game bro, with consistent coming updates also. You're free to play later when it is "finished" but with all they've shown to us, youve got like 2 or 3 months to play before running out of content lol
Bro, PoE 2 EA has more content for 30$ than Diablo 4 will all DLCs xD You are bitching about nothing, GGG isn't your typical developer, they love this game and they love gaming so they know what they are doing. Give them a chance, you won't be disappointed (unless there will be server issues due to traffic which is expected xD)
The $30 supporter pack to gain access to the beta is literally worth $60 if you take into account the $30 worth of points. Which is enough points to buy a large amount of stash tabs. Its a $60 pack set at the value of $30. In addition the Higher tier packs also include all the lower tier items. Meaning when you pay more you are also getting more items at a linear rate with the cost.
They release new content every 4 months. The things the players really like they keep in the game forever. The others they don't. All of those things add variety and choose to the user, so a range of users can enjoy the part of the game they like the most and not interact with the others. That's not feature creep. It's the entire business model. All the things you just saw them talk about are systems they have had for years, just updated to fit into the new endgame.
@4tech69 hey thanks for the reply. I mean I get that people that already play this game get that so much content is just the standard for them, but imo it's very daunting and may be intimidating to someone who knows nothing about the game.
@@rigomortizthe nice thing is that almost none of it is required, so you can take things at your own pace. Don’t like the expedition mechanic? Ignore it, focus on other things you enjoy. You can always trade with other players to get items you might be missing from the mechanic
I'm just glad to see Josh excited about a game after an info dump about a new game. Typically we learn about - game - and we all cringe and just lose any excitement due to awful game design, monetization etc.
To the point at the end...Path of Exile 1 has made me exceptionally angry at times...I still greatly like it. But I understand what he's saying, and it's a great way to look at monetization..."how does giving this company money for this game make me feel." I've given a bunch of money to Warframe, never really felt bad about it, primarily because I spent a ton of time in it before ever feeling truly compelled to spend anything, and by the time I gave them money, I genuinely felt bad NOT giving them any money. Plus, after I bought currency and inventory space, I've spent time trading to supplement what I've purchased, and the only reason I've given them as much as I have total is because I happen to have money to spare and...frankly didn't feel like other games or studios had earned my money as much. I also like the idea of "being able to play for a long while before giving the game any money and viewing that as something of a demo." That carries some weight. It's the nice thing about free-to-play games, F2P often gets a bad rap but the nice thing is there's no entry fee barring you from getting in the door, and once you're in, you're only spending your time. As SOON as you're unhappy with it...turn it off, uninstall, and never look back if that's what you want. It's no different than trying out a string of movies and shows on Netflix, or borrowing a ton of books from the library you might want to buy someday. You're trying things out, seeing if you like them and if they deserve your money and/or more of your time. If they don't, great, look to another thing. But if it does, also great, give them more time, and if you feel like it, more money. When PLAYERS can choose those things, it's far better than players CAN'T choose those things.
I like Zizarans definition of pay to win: "will paying money change the way a game is played compared to if you do not spend money". With this definition path of exile is definitly pay to win, but the "good" thing is that stash tabs are in most cases a one time investment. If you get a supporter pack for 50 bucks you'll get all the stash tabs you'll ever need and every extra won't change much of the gameplay anymore. And stash tabs are priced way cheaper compared to skins so I guess you could say they are priced fairly
I always considered this game to be free until you are into maps (which is a daunting task to reach if you just started out), and once you are - you should spend $60 which is about how much a typical AAA game costs. This will give you enough ingame currency to purchase all bank tabs that are somewhat required to efficiently blasting the endgame. Currency tab, map tab, fragment tab, divination card tab, upgrade your basic 4 tabs to premium quality. Then if you're fancying it you can buy some league-specific tabs such as essence, blight, delirium, delve etc. But these are not required. Then you have tabs that are barely even useful such as uniques collection tab or flask tab. Flasks are 1x2 items, do you need a whole special tab for them? Hell no, but if you want to have them tidied up? You can do it. A rare exception to this was 3.24 Necropolis league with those fucking coffins. 1x2 items that do not stack and you need 88 of them to perform a single craft (with a fully maxed out graveyard, you don't HAVE TO use 88, but you usually did). I bought two additional QUAD tabs to store this shit. And then in 3.25 all this free space was kinda useless, cos normally i don't need that much. This is the only league where I felt kinda finessed. But hey, I have those tabs FOREVER now, even in POE II. Maybe there is a time in the future where i'll need them.
GGG provides an insane amount of value for their offers. Just insane. And to have maybe 10% of these purchases translate to in-game advantage while the purchase remains totally valid... They are a marvel in the gaming industry. I wish I could pay for them.
"When we released early access we wanted to make sure that people feel like we weren't limping along" Dude the only limping that anyone will do is us limping away to our workplace thinking about PoE2
Before spending a single dollar on path of exile 1 I had a little over 100 hours and beat all except 1 of the multiple end game bosses. Yeah it was a little annoying managing the 4 base tabs you get for free and using a free software to be able to sell items on their trade site. But I did it and was very very happy to pay for $40 of stash tabs, I now have over 2k hours and still feel completely fine with stash space i currently have.
I was very put off by the expensive packs in PoE. Years later, 2500+ in game hours, I have spent over $500 because I felt compelled to support them and their vision/ thank them for what they provided me. Even so, that's ~ $1/5hr of play vs many games that are ~$5/hr.
I'm gladly supporting GGG and getting that early access. This game is mind blowing of how much stuff is coming out for this title. Also 12 classes total when full release.
As a 25 year player of diablo and a HUGE diablo 2 fan. I was always overwhelmed by poe1 but ever since the announcement of poe2 ive been so excited. I think GGG has absolutely earned their reapect ESPICALLY with how blizzard has deteriorated theirs. I cant wait for the 6th. 30$ andy pack here i come!
I spent £10 on PoE. For bank tabs. And got a game that is STILL updated supported to this day. I have NO IDEA what some players want, if GGG can't get a pass on... wanting money for the game they made. I MIGHT lay down some cash for early access JUST on principle that I DEFINITELY owe them money... and they'll STILL give me the value of that cash as WELL as early access. Monetisation is a sad reality of gaming. Devs need to eat. This is monetisation done by devs and not suits.
As a new player to PoE I had to drop it because I couldn't understand what I was being asked to buy to make it a pleasant experience. I would probably be playing today if it had a "On-the-shelf Bundle" that is to say: if the game was being sold in store for 60$, what would be included in it (bank slot, currency slot, etc.)? It is similar to Warframe, you can buy almost everything for real money (via platinum), but 90% of the store is stuff you can obtained by playing. So before putting money in it, you need to know the game in details first.
The final 'one more thing, big boss' Was actually 9 more fights, which lead to that 1 fight, which is probably after a big labrynth, so is actually 11 mechanics....
I'm living proof that PoE isn't "pay to win." I spent $60 on the "Master Soulstealer Pack" in 2018 and that's the only purchase on my account. I paid the equivalent of a AAA game price (actually less since AAA is now $70-80) and I haven't spent a penny since. If the game was P2W then I should have had to re-up and pay again and continue do to so. For a game that some people like to call P2W it's strange how I've managed to get away with only spending $60 on it in over 8 years of playing.
I have spent less than 60$ on ALL stash tabs in over 3 THOUSAND hours, I didn't buy stash tabs until I was 1k hours deep and bought them because they look nice for sorting. Not to mention anything you pay for is interchangeable between either game.
Game is going to be so good!!!! Cant wait! I've spent about 1k in 6000 hours in the game and if I had more id support more, it's one of the few companies that I believe in and trust 100 percent, they always deliver and give us gamers the game we want and deserve. We are never saying what could of been with POE unlike games like Destiny, WoW etc. If anyone says POE 1 or 2 is pay to win they are lost. The game is free with thousands of hours of play time. If you cant support a company that gives so much after hundreds or thousands of hours you are the problem not the company. So you spend 30 dollars get a sweet cosmetics plus 300 points which is worth 30 dollars alone and you get this game for 30 dollars whoever questions this is insane. they are giving us all of our cosmetics from POE 1 transferring to POE 2. They support us every step of the way its only right we do the same thing. If you think any different you wrong, not an opinion. Kick rocks.
I've played almost 1000 hours - I get to end game then start again. That's the bit I like. Always solo. I've spent about $100. About $30 for some tabs. The rest for stuff I didn't need because I wanted to throw a few more bucks. I've got cosmetics I never use. The value is that good for me.
Something worth pointing out about Path of Exile's monetization: none of it is consumable! No subscriptions, no rentals, no timed boosts. (season pass is a bit debatable though) It's either cosmetics which you'll never have duplicates of, or stash space which can be reused forever. ... Except for an April Fools joke involving fireworks, in which that was exactly the joke.
There is actually one. I hope they get rid of it. But unfortunately it seems to be hard to get rid of things that already exist. That's the regular item transmog. That should just be a normal feature of the game.
Knowing that the money I spent on a game I started playing in 2017 is actually also money I spent on the sequel to that game that came out 7 years later has me scared and confused because I'm pretty sure they're meant to have taken advantage of me and made me pay for all those things a second time like literally any other game I've ever played.
The moment Josh "chair" Hayes took control for a minute was my favorite portion of the video. Although the man didn't say much, everyone in the audience could definitely feel his presence.
PoE is the biggest pay to win game in the industry. You support GGG and in return they give an insane amount of support and content for years and years. There is no bigger player win.
Nice try
This: it's a community pay 2 win. The community pays. Those with less disposable income buy a stash tab or nothing. Those with a lot of disposable income spend a few grand.
Lmao how do you win in poe, you don't it's a pve game nice try buddy
@@bingbong8961 Its pay to win as in you pay them, and they give you more and more game than any other company on the planet. you win cause you have a fun game. you dont win the game.
@@bingbong8961 You win by being a PoE player in an industry full of mediocrity. Your prize is new content every 3-5 months 😁
GGG: _"We're making PoE 2!"_
*Accidentally makes PoE 3.*
GGG: _"Let's just call it PoE 2. Nobody will notice."_
Meanwhile, everyone trying not to talk about Team Cherry over in the corner...
Never google GGG ifn you search the publisher. It could lead you to a German company famous for, well, just dont google it
XD diablo 4 didn't have resistances for monfhs
Some of you need to get off your knees...You'll get carpet burns. 🙄
@@Devon-hw6ih diablo is about as dead as blizzard is as a company
"Just give me the game" is my whole being right now
Time is going to sooooo slow until it releases.
This is exactly how game releases SHOULD feel btw. Games being ready when they are actually finished and not rushed out and then the other half is sold to us as DLC.
@@YuYuYuna_ the fact that this is just EA and not even all the stuff they have is actually what makes it even more insane
Best part of this was in the Q&A that followed when Mark basically said "this endgame is what we consider a Minimum Viable Product for an ARPG"
LMAO
shots fired ngl
They been firing shots at blizzard for a while now. D2 was the number one inspiration for the company originally and since then blizzard has been entirely profit focused. And keep in mind, GGG is partially owned by tencent with a slightly different experience on chinese servers.
@@ExiledVessel The experience on the chinese servers is very different with regards to p2w. But it's because those servers are ran by Tencent unlike the western servers which GGG naturally run
Tencent is also the majority holder of GGG with over 80% of the shares
@@ExiledVessel Hell, there's a node in one of the new Ascendancies called "I am the Blizzard" No, GGG.... you are so much more!
@RickCarleton To be fair its the Monk's Mantra for that ascendancy node where it's part of his mantra going I am the Blizzard, I am the Storm, I am the Rage,etc.
But the subtle use of it being repurposed for throwing shade at Blizzard the company is also funny.
"Games don't launch with endgame content." And Grinding Gear Games took that =*very*= personally.
This isnt even the launch! This is EARLY ACCESS with endgame!!
Yep, sadly this is an anomaly
We get a working game with endgame and when you want to go in early access you pay for key by buying point you might need anyways
From d4 bad to d4 dead
POE skill tree is like a biblical angel
"BE NOT AFRAID"
If only 80% of the tree was actually useful.
@@vyncentelwyn4304 The year 2020 wants its criticism of the game back. Build diversity has never been bigger
The biggest thing for me that they could've add would be in-game builder that you can share on boards in-game. So I can slap someone elses build with two clicks and be done with that insane skill tree.
@@vyncentelwyn4304 this has to be a joke, right?
@@vyncentelwyn4304 tell me you never played PoE without telling me you never played it.
PoE2 is completely pay to win. You pay some money to get into the Early access and you just keep winning from the sheer amount of content.
Nah dude, this is the new shit. I'm winning before I even begin paying with just pure hype igniting deep inside my soul. This is Win-Before-Pay.
Just wait until Early Access is over, in a year or so, get in for FREE !
Pay to beta test smh.
/s
@Lavigator on top of getting in, you also receive the same amount worth of coins...
@@AzoTheRed the "/s" is for "sarcasm" :P.
I have over $900 spent so I'm gonna get a key in a couple of weeks for spending >$480
Let's not forget they litteraly delayed the entire game for 3 weeks just so they could perfectly transition all MTX you had bought over the last 10 years of POE1 to POE2.
Not because they had to, but because they respected the players money spent enough to do so.
and also respected the time spent. because im sure some of those players never spent a dime, but spent hours of missed birthdays and anniversaries just to get their characters perfect.
Not just mtx. Stash tabs will also transfer.
@@BicBoi1984 Stash tabs are mtx, mtx stands for microtransaction and not just limited to cosmetics
i knew about the cosmetics, but the stash tabs as well?? that is almost too good to be true. i hope they earn enough money with all of this... it is truly remarkable
Spent over $3000 on POE and I feel like D4 ripped me off for $60.
What?
^^
@@angelgomez7081 He's saying that the $3000 he spent on poe was a fair trade, while the $60 he spent to buy D4 was a rip off.
@@angelgomez7081 🐳🐳
@@angelgomez7081 what's not to get?
"They do not know how to stop making a game" This is very well put !
Even that can be done well or done poorly. GGG with PoE = Done Well. RSI with Star Citizen = Done poorly.
I spent about 300$ since 2016 or so, and I still feel like I ripped GGG off.
Makes you wonder how much extra money the AAA studios make if GGG has such a massive team as well. Without any greedy intentions.
Same here
Stockholm syndrom or sunk cost fallacy ?
Because nobody should ever consider $300 a normal price for a game.
No hate, but this was a crazy statement
1k + spender here and feels the same for my time and money. Slots are the least p2w that exist in the 3A games now, would it be nice if new acc came with a few premium tabs (costomizibel tabs that also makes getting into trader easier) yes, but they don't need to.
Even if I had not paid for D4 and the 100h I spent in that game I would still feel ripped of, you may like that game I dont and sure as fuck wont pay for expansions etc...
@@Ron_Jambo_ Almost no non-competitve game in the world can reach hour/moneyspent level of poe.
Compare this to D4...$70 game, $40 expansion every year, $20 battle passes every couple months, on top of just as many microtransactions as PoE.
and less game
@@Tehblood Vastly less, and vastly worse.
Another $100 a year for psn if you play on Playstation
I mean path of exile also has battle passes every few months
Less content and boring af too
Chat: "The game keeps coming"
Me: "So am I"
Diddy has entered the chat
xD
I've been erect for 27 hours.....
My favorite part of the vid was when josh 'chair' hayes took over for a minute. Dude didn't say much, but his presence was surely felt by all who were watching.
i saved up all the money i refused to pay on trash p2w games and am now spending it on GGG instead
You are a gentleman and a scholar. No sarcasm.
I swear some people think a games p2w if they have to pay anything for it or if they can only get 99% of whats in the gane for free.. If you want to see real p2w download any pvp focused gacha and youll finally understand what p2w means while you experience whale wars irl.
💯
The crazy thing is, for PoE, even you are only happy with getting 99% of the game for free, you still should be happy with GGG monetization, because that's exactly the case. Stash Tabs aren't even 1% of the game, and cosmetics are just.... cosmetics?
These are basically entitled Karens "I want everything free and I wont give a cent" Also guess what, they don't care if you play, you are just taking server space.
There are 3 types of "p2w" Power, which is the most egregious one. Time skip, getting something faster and convenience stash tabs. Convenience and time skip are slippery slopes as it encourages designers to intentionally make the game longer or inconvenient for you to pay, but something HAS to give in a vast majority of games if you want to run a business. Best thing is of course cosmetics, but running on those alone is hard because you have people like me who don't give a flying fuck about them, but I will gladly buy some convenience.
Then there is an argument of capped and uncapped p2W, can you sink in 1k and still get more power out of sinking in another 1k well yea that's basically uncapped, or is the game asking of you 60€ which would be the box price anyway and that is all you can gain. They want to give a free game so it has a player base and you get to try it but they need money and as Josh said, asking for 20€ for a hobby you got to enjoy for a long time is NOTHING. Go out and do literally anything fun and see how fast you get over 20€...
people always look for things to complain about. PoE2 could be 100% free where nothing is paywalled, and people would STILL bitch and moan.
I mean I'm living proof that PoE isn't "pay to win."
I spent $60 on the "Master Soulstealer Pack" in 2018 and that's the only purchase on my account. I paid the equivalent of a AAA game price (actually less since AAA is now $70-80) and I haven't spent a penny since. If the game was P2W then I should have had to re-up and pay again and continue do to so. For a game that some people like to call P2W it's strange how I've managed to get away with only spending $60 on it in over 8 years of playing.
"PoE is pay to win" was always a bold statement in my eyes.
The only thing that is actually necessary, and it is only if you want to dig deep into late game, are stash tabs. Wich, on a week-end sale, would cost you what... 30 money? The rest is purely cosmetic.
And i'm pretty sure that level of content is worth more than that.
let alone supporter packs give you the same amount of point value to spend in the shop. on top of the cosmetics.
Yeah, precisely. 1 30$ supporter pack and you are set pretty much forever(buy tabs on sale). Little more maybe if you want extra comfort. (haven't bought tabs in a long time not sure how much exactly it comes out to)
@@HiddenStr3ngth Exactly. I'm living proof that PoE isn't "pay to win."
I spent $60 on the "Master Soulstealer Pack" in 2018 and that's the only purchase on my account. I paid the equivalent of a AAA game price (actually less since AAA is now $70-80) and I haven't spent a penny since. If the game was P2W then I should have had to re-up and pay again and continue do to so. For a game that some people like to call P2W it's strange how I've managed to get away with only spending $60 on it in over 8 years of playing.
I'm around 4000$ in and i can say: money well spend since GGG deserve it
I mean, I've played a lot of poe and sale tabs are absoutly pay 2 win lol.
the p2w comments are just troll tbh. You can not buy character power, simple as that.
You also can't buy knowledge, which is the key to winning in PoE - knowing your build and how to make it stronger.
I do think its a bit pay to win, but I don't think its egregious. They are very fair with stash tab prices and they are even making it carry over between games. I would definitely agree to free to play games adopting this type of system as long as they don't purposely fill your bank up with trash to force you to buy extra tabs like some Korean MMOs have been doing.
@@willo1345 that's not ptw, there's no "winning", it's not a competition.
@@willo1345 It's not, the comment above just explained why. You cannot buy character power, therefore it's not pay to win. Just because a game has microtransactions doesn't automatically mean it's p2w. That's not what p2w means.
@@Lucas-sk5iy i always find it funny that it is called pay to win since you basicly shorten your time on a game eergo your paying to lose even if you could buy a perfect build in the store whats the point of it, than there is no need to farm anything since you allready have the perfect build
GGG needs to be protected at all costs
They already sold off the majority to Tencent
@AMabud-lv7hy With a completely separate Chinese client to fully abide by their norms, Tencent is perfectly happy with their investment (and profit as PoE has done nothing but grow).
Tencent has never meddled with how GGG runs their western client, the Tencent fear mongering is a weird stance imo.
@@GavrynGamingyeah, i think people didn't realize tencent did that *because* they wanted control of china client. That is it. It's very profitable to leave GGG alone so why would they mess with it.
@@GavrynGaminglol, cope harder, ccp shill.
@@darkmirror21 That's exactly it!
GGG being like "why launch a game with season 1. lets start at season 10 instead"
To be fair if they launched POE2 without the league mechanics from POE why would anyone play POE2?
@@DarthMizaru A lot of people think poe 1 is bloated with content. I'm sure a lot of people would enjoy a clean slate PoE with just new content. I personally like that they added some of the old league content in it, I just hope they don't add too much and leave some space for new content as well. I believe a lot of the content in poe 1 right now isn't really making the game better.
@@theburgundynetwork3432 its not bloated, its poorly balanced, most of it is enjoyable but have terrible rewards.
I think something that may have happened is that people saw this stream, and there was no disclaimer during the supporter packs that it was purely cosmetic. People probably saw "this item erects a magical barrier around your character" or "drop a giant stone totem" and thought it actually functioned. It's a weird thing to leave out since normally they clarify that supporter packs are fully cosmetic.
Yeh, I was surprised, they have traditionally always reminded players that the packs are purely cosmetic.
2:20 I couldn't disagree more. I want as much content as possible. I'll wait longer for the most epic game ever instead of a feature stripped husk like Diablo 4.
I think all of the talk about p2w is lowkey kinda good. It tells me that poe2 is actually reaching a new audience. If it were just poe1 veterans this conversation wouldn't be happening because we know better.
That's a really good point.
No, vets know that playing without currency, maps and shards tabs you are in "trial/demo", functionally unplayable the same way D4 is as a "service" as activision wants to lie about it for anyone that actually tries to get any value out of that 60 or 70 bucks neoblizz scam.
Every single person screaming p2w has never played the game, or failed to understand it.
Things to remember if you're a new Path of Exile user :
1. It's free. You get the whole campaign and the end game for free.
2. Do you NEED to pay for stash expansion? No.
3. Is it helping a lot? Yes, it's highly recommended, but after "trying out" their game for about 30 hours+, paying like 10+$ (after each content expansion, they have a sale a week after, it's super cheap) is a joke for the amount of hours you can put it.
You don't need to complete the campaign. But for the end game? Yeah, you need them.
Otherwise you are going to be extremely miserable.
As an aside, the POE 2 early access supporter packs are no different than the other supporter packs GGG have put out for POE 1. The only difference is that in this new set of supporter packs, you get POE2 early access with it. I do think its important to mention that the early access is meant for testing the game and GGG being able to fix things and make adjustments so that things are in a good place when POE 2 officially releases. And POE2 will be free to play when it releases.
Whats more, along with the money spend for access, you get as credits for microtransactions. There is no fee *just* for access, you get access AND microtransactions. It's insanely fair.
It's funny how this game is free to play and when they ask for "support", suddenly becomes p2w. Just think about the amount of money you have spent on things that you probably never remember, or barely remember instead of giving those guys 30$. Absolutely 100% justified support.
I've bought a lot of mtx for the sole reason of supporting GGG
They've made and maintained my favorite game for a DECADE
And look what they did with that money! Now I want to give them even more, honestly
@@prosamis big same tbh
I've been playing every league like clockwork since, like, 2013? (2.0. Played a bit before, but much less in depth) and am probably solidly in the 10k+ hours played. (I don't even want to know the actual number)
As long as the game makes me happy, I'll give it money, when it stops making me happy, I'll stop playing (and giving money), it's as simple as that in the end
So, I played my first league of PoE with Settler's. I'm laid off, so I can't justify spending money at all, but I did buy an extra stash tab and premium tab for a total of $15. I have several toons at 95 and a CI LS Trickster at 98 with a 500d+ build and all i have left to finish the content this league are the Ubers which I will do this weekend. You don't need to spend hundreds of dollars to win because all the things you purchase are cosmetic or QoL features. It's not P2W at all.
What was your best farm? I'm a harvest Andy and bored of it.
I watched the divine trade an flipped a lot. Power runes as well. For example, I have a power rune up for sale for 520c on Faustus. If I were to sell it as soon as I got it, it's only 400c. I did the same with divines. As for currency farms, Catarina with Betrayal, Betrayal Intelligence and reinforcement scarabs coupled with a harvestr scarab and doubling scarab. This worked out well. Also, Harbis with three harbi scarabs, Regency and warhoard. Third, harvest with cornucopia, doubling, lineage and dusk fragment for quantity and pack size. All three running blue altars. I also farm Flesh and Flame and light of meaning jewels. With flipping, I might spend 100d a day to make 150 over three days with Faustus. I only run t16 8mods, City Square, Glacier and Strands. I sell all my t17's to guildies at .5 divine each even if at bulk. Saves times in the long run having to fuck with the site or TfT's discord.
People saying POE is pay to win simply have no idea what they are talking about.
I think it is but I don't think its bad in POE. Its very fair in POE. I like to be consistent with my view of monetization because I see a lot of people call games with monetization p2w unless they like it and will find any way to reason how it isn't p2w. Just look at lotro defenders, you can literally buy instant teleports to quest objectives that have been purposely separated to be as inconvenient to reach as possible to entice you to buy more currency. You can even just straight up max legendaries with hundreds of dollars, but they will try to move heaven and earth to convince you that, no, its actually not p2w. The real answer is that it IS p2w but they love the game so they can't admit that it is.
It is but the game is great so it doesn’t matter
alternatively, they just have a different definition of an incredibly nebulous term. personally, i would count it as p2w, but i count almost everything as p2w and care much more about the impact of the paid content on the game.
If the game had a box price but came with more stash tabs would that make it less p2w? At least right now you get to play the game for quite a while before you need to spend any money on it, so you can decide if it's worth the $ or not.
@@willo1345 PoE isn't P2W though. You can literally play through the entire game if you wanted to without buying anything. Now does having a handful of extra tabs and the specialty tabs like currency, maps, etc. help? Yeah, but guess what? I've spent $60 total on PoE and I've been playing for 8ish years. Only purchase I've ever made was the $60 supporter pack back in Delve league and I got a sick glowing blue armor set and I used the $60 of points they give you to buy a currency tab, 2 premium tabs, a map tab and spent the rest on basic normal tabs. Same price spent as a AAA game and I haven't had any reason or need to buy more. PoE isn't pay to win because you can play the game through all, if not, the majority of the end game perfectly fine. I was playing the game for like a year and a half (sparingly) before buying that $60 supporter pack using that poe acquisition desktop app that was janky. To me I didn't know if I actually liked the game so I used that app instead of premium tabs. It worked just fine. You could get away with spending even less if you wanted to. You could just buy the map and currency tab and maybe 1 premium tab and you'd be set for what the average experience level PoE play would experience. The fact that you can play through the majority of the game including well into red maps before truly feeling the restraint of the 4 starter tabs they give you is a sign the game is good and fair.
They don't hinder you for not continuing to financially support either. As I said I spent $60 like what, 7 years ago now and I have the exact same player experience as someone who's spent thousands or tens of thousands.
The only thing thats upsetting here is that the artbook is gated behind the top tier pledge. Don't care for most of the stuff included there but damn do I want that book :v
Yeah me too, especially since I want to do concept art. I plan on getting or upgrading to it eventually, but I hope they consider selling it standalone
Keep in mind new shipment fees outside of the US are crazy
I was literally just saying this yesterday about how GGG monetizes PoE is possibly one of the best way to do it in the modern gaming age. However, it is pretty objectively agreed that the stash tabs are considered PtW. But like you said, after a couple hundred hours of playing the game and realizing how good it is, you feel almost compelled to support them and buy some tabs.
I'm just hyped that the MTXs are carrying over to the sequel. My supporter packs and skins won't go to waste.
Who even heard of a company doing this? GGG certainly earned it's respect.
Smite is doing the exact opposite, nothing carries over to smite 2, even though its largely the same characters, same gameplay, etc
@@TheVenhammer Yea you get currency for skins but i bet with that currency you cant buy same amount of stuff in smite 2
@@kalestiyapetrovna9962 you can use the legacy gems, but for only up to half of the purchase. if i'm understanding Smite's news post correctly. my reward for a decade of playing smite is a 50% discount on the things i already purchased?
GGG is great. playing poe since 2014 and i bought cosmetics multiple times just because i wanted to support them. i never felt scammed, they were never greedy and they never disappointed me. in GGG i trust
Imagine it being in reverse, your mom uninviting you from christmas because she and dad found a new engaging online game to play
It's called Facebook. They've been playing it for years.
My parents aren't that cool.
I have spent around 2500 USD on poe and have 8529 hrs in the game. That comes out to 29 cents per hour. I would say that is very good value to money spent.
I just checked my local cinema. 18€ for a 1.5 hour movie.
354 usd for 30k hours played (since 2013), sounds like a good deal
Josh's 10-years-old-hyped-for-this-game face impressions are sooo damn wholesome :D
i love that josh goes "they heard people complaining about no endgame and took that very personally", and then they literally come and say EXACTLY the same thing
like world famous PoE loving giga grinder Ster says: All the choices on the tree are either Health or Damage. If you die too much, choose health. If things don't die fast enough, choose Damage.
Well... There is no health in the PoE2 skill tree.
@@Uelibertiga Resistances and defensive stats stop your health from dropping.
@@argnator If you die lots, be less bonkable. If you don't die, bonk harder.
I bust my back doing hard labour and during the more than 5 years it took me to get back on my feet PoE was one of those things that kept me sane. Because my income went poof I could not buy much, but what in-game stuff I did buy I never did regret. I started playing PoE at Open Beta, and still enjoy the game. Not many games I still play after a decade. I am so looking forward to 10 more years in PoE II.
There are D4 fans angry in the comments bashing POE players and it's silly. A lot of us POE players also play D4, and we all know the game is stale. Blizzard can use a kick in the ass to make D4 better and POE2's competition will light a fire at Blizzard. The realmwalker season is ROUGH.
unless poe actually notably hurts their monetization numbers, they wont change.
Are there D4 fans? 70 dollar base price, season pass, paid expansion, and tons of cosmetic nickel and diming. That's before we get to the terrible campaign, boring low effort end game and seasons. Microsoft and blizzard only care about squeezing money out of players not providing any meaningful content.
Irony is, mid stream people argued me wanting PoE2 to improve its clarity (and the necessity of the currency, maps and _insert_third_tab_depending_on_playstyle_or_quadstack_) of store value/remove its dark pattern cycle, promo of the basic tab and allow stackable items to fully stack in inventory as they should is "shilling for D4".
The point is that those are things that remind new players of the shitshow that is the actiblizz scam/is on the same level of petty cash nipping when GGG doesnt need to do any of it to turn a profit.
It's funny how i HATE micro-transactions, even in free games, and even for cosmetics.
But Path of Exile gets a pass that i didn't even realize i was giving it.
Goes to show what making an actually good game as a respectable game company does for player moral.
We've been apart from fully made games on release so long, that this normal amount of a game feels bad to people? We've gone backwards.
This kid is beyond his years. Read this comment again in 20 years and you will see how right you are
Normal? Name one game that released with this many endgame systems. The reason PoE2 can do it is because they are sequal systems from PoE1.
Bro, almost no game in existence has as much content as PoE 2 in EA.
on GGG: the main complaint from me is the scale of cost on their monetization--a single costume costs as much as an entire other AAA game+season pass.
they could cut that in half and it would STILL be a tough sell, especially with as buggy as many of them are (and the "underhanded" tactic of being unable to truly preview MTXs--that said, contacting customer service to get those refunded is barely an inconvenience, since they have the quickest-acting and most responsive CS i've ever encountered, by a WIDE margin).
and that the game is poorly optimized in several ways, and (at least under chris) EXTREMELY unwilling to change in many regards to those (such as a blatant and noted lack of options to turn off/down particle effects for performance reasons, being blocked because chris wilson thinks that people would just turn them off entirely--which is itself telling about the entire situation)
that said: despite those its STILL a great game and im greatly looking forward to the early access, which i'm absolutely going to take part in.
About "disable particles" toggle... Tell me, in which part Chris is not right?
Give them an option to toggle them off, and they will do it.
Idk what is your experience, but i do know people that already use external tools to cut down basically every visual effect that game has. PAID tools (with cost per season). Which simultaneously counts as breaking TOS, but they still do it.
If you give easily accessible option of "do this to perform better", these no-life games will eventually take it almost 100% of times. That's just how it works.
And that's why adding this option is not really an option to consider.
@@DimkaTsv if your game has such a problem with particle effects that you KNOW that people will do away with them the second they get the opportunity (rather than something that players enjoy the spectacle of)... perhaps that displays that your game has an issue regarding the subject that needs to be addressed, and you (as the dev in this scenario) are more or less openly admitting as such by stating that.
It's closer to pay to lose, because the more MTX you buy the worse your performance gets lol
As someone who thinks 3 or 4 times about actually buying a big Game for like 50€, really pondering about if I will get a playtime worth that amount of money.
I've played almost 5000 hours of PoE and spend roughly 400 bucks on it. It started to become my benchmark, if I don't get a hundred hours of decent fun out of a game, then it's just not worth 50 or even 70 bucks for me. I'd rather hop back to PoE, play a league for a hundred hours and spend another 20 bucks to make my character look cooler.
It's possibly the best and fairest monetization I've ever experienced in roughly 16 years of playing videogames.
same-ish for me. I expect a minimum of 1 hour of "good time" per 1€ I spent. If it is really Effing good it MAY go up to 2€/h. But anything beyond is "nope won't buy! maybe when its on discount for the price I would pay." Though keep in mind that hours played are not neccessarily equal to hours of "good time"
You honestly can't expect every 60 dollar game to offer 100s of hours of content
A Dollar/Pound/Euro per hour of playtime is such a bad benchmark though, and as someone else said are all of those accumulated hours "good" play time? I say this as someone with over 2500 hours in games like Destiny and Runescape.
I'll take a $20 game that's five or six hours long these days over a AAA $70 game with 100+.
Thats 3.125 years of a 40 month a year 40 hour a week full time job.
I mean you literally don't have to spend a dime if you don't want to. If you don't want to or just aren't interested right now you don't have to. This is JUST for Early Access aka beta testing effectively. The full game is going to be free and the majority of your purchases in PoE 1 will carry over like stash tabs and MTX. If you're not compelled to play it now just wait for the full release when it is free to play.
This is so funny... people are going "this game is pay to win because I have to pay money for early access" ..... When you pay 30$ you get 30$ of in game credit... to literally buy the only thing that would matter in PoE/PoE2 bank space. And offers you more than 30$ worth of game. Damn... What a horrible company.....
almost any time ive wanted anything from the shop i bought a supporter pack and got a bunch of bonus stuff.
Never been more comfortable n willing on spending $480 for a game...........thanku GGG for giving us a sequel to our beloved game n its crazy to think this may be bette than its predecessor n more that its just the beginning.....WERE BACK!!
0:12 that's what she said.
Words that no male in your blood line has ever heard.
Hahaha, your reaction is priceless! Can't wait to play it too! 3k hours in POE1 and I still have no clue what I'm doing! Now finally I will not feel like a fool! :)))) P.S. I consider P2W a system that allows you to buy with real money items of power. Not present in POE1 neither in POE2. The Stash Tabs, currency tabs etc, are just "items" that will allow you to stash more items/currency, which are used in crafting. But other than that, there is no pay for power.
We pay for a better game, now take my money
I just love that the first 80 seconds was nonverbal reactions. The most relatable reaction I've seen
I hope this clicks for me, I wanted to like PoE but much like Warframe the games systems are so all over the place and the gameplay is just off enough I end up burning out on it after a while and don't want to play anymore.
Its hyper focus on rng crafting is what turned me off
How are Warframes systems all over the place?
Same, I miss 3.13 harvest :
poe is not an esay game but if you do get good at it the game the payoff is youll be able to pick up any other video game that revolves around you making a build and doing damage and do well in it.
Gem sockets have always been my biggest issue with PoE.
I never played PoE outside of some story waaaaaay back when it was in early access with a friend. The amount of content they just kept showcasing as I was watching with friends, it was like mind numbing. They did mention that several of these were from seasons within PoE1, but still that is like a brain overload for me lol. I do hope to try it out though, at least i have some friends to answer all the dumb questions I'll be asking.
POE and Warframe are the least predatory free to play games I've seen.
Interesting you mention warframe. Worth a look?
@cckmanofsteel2393 if you're okay with a never ending economy it's definitely worth a look. My problem is all the good stuff from like 6 years ago still apply today. So I've run out of things to really want to chase after. You get to a point where you just one shot things... and if you don't it's just a angrily long to take down because of phases like Innocence in act 5.
@@cckmanofsteel2393 yeah if youre resistant to RSI or Carpal Tunnel
@sxikho6184 lol I mean is warframe worth looking at. Been playing poe since the beginning.
@@cckmanofsteel2393 outside of the WF's support team being kinda lame(I've heard people getting perma banned over some blunder in chat, like being "insensitive" about woke lgbtq stuff. basically chat mods accusing them of being bigots over mundane stuff) everything else from WF is very nice.
Do remember that game is a power fantasty game. it starts difficult and interesting up unti lyou become ultra OP and clap everything without anything doing damage to you, and it's not in the same sense you get to the point in POE, it's an inevitable point for any casual player that's played the game enough(no seasona lresets all content just becomes trivial and you have to limit yourself if you want any sort of challenge). The game does offer excellent customization, fast paced zoomy gameplay with a lot and I mean a lot of creative ways to dispatch hordes of enemies with, combining several even at once for a lot of effect, do goofy crazy setups + a lot of QoL and "hub" features to interact or pass time in like doing hoverboard races or whatever + interesting singly player story content.
Basically if you want a hard game, like a scary R2D2 type 3rd person shooter where stuff gets gradually harder(so not that far off POE in a sense minus the ARPG thing) WFs not for you. But if you want a power fantasy with a ton of cool ways to customize your characters arsenal, looks, a huuuuge amount of different types of enemies, zones and content to do this in AND quality well made single palyer story on top(they have put a lot of effrot on this. it's good) then check it out.
I personally really enjoy challenge so I don't play WF much, but all the other good things in the game make me visit it for a week or two every year or so approximately. It's a very well made game just one more to chill in, not one to cvhallenge yourself
One thing I wanted in PoE 1 was a swingable weapon like a chakram or axe on a whip, a flail if you will but I couldn't find one. PoE2 seems to have them and I can't wait to try it!
Especially if I can dual wield flails like a whirlwind of blade and/or if there's a giant hat cosmetic in game I can wear. (I like to wear 1 oversized hat in mmo's nor just to stand out but because I love how goofy they look).
If PoE2 has 2 or even 3 of these, I'll probably be on it for a long, long time!
just take my money!!!!!
What a great edit. Perfect even. This is what I was feeling when I watched Josh's stream
I never got into POE because it felt too overwhelming after it's been out for a few years. POE2 seems overwhelming before it's even out, can't say I'm shocked lmao.
There is a lot more info in-game to teach you. You can click any underlined term in a tool-tip and it'll bring up a new tool-tip explaining it to you.
first game, I gave up after looking at the skill tree, and how often i hear things like "how can i fix my build" and the solution is "make a new character"
I'll probably just stick with grim dawn and last epoch for now
@@RG32822 Bro that requires effort how dare you suggest such a thing.
You won't need to create new character in PoE 2 if you fuk up your build.
Respecs will be cheap, unlike in PoE 1, so stop crying
Yup unless they fix this its not going to draw in the casual audience and thats not really a problem not every game has to be for everyone. Also get ready for the veteran player replys of "its not that complicated bro"
Another really important thing to note is that the "P2W" that exists in POE (buying stash tabs) has been actively developed to be LESS "P2W". For instance, every new league that comes out if there are new items introduced you get a free stash for those items. Also, everything purchased in poe 1 will transfer to 2 and vice versa.
The monetization strategy for POE with the amount of game you get is probably the most fair model in the entire industry.
The best way to describe playing without stash tabs is playing a free trial. You won't need more inventory space till the very endgame and during the endgame the player can decide whether they like the game enough to spend XYZ money on it. It's a clever strategy imo. Some people expect the game to be truly Free-To-Play though and I can't blame them for disliking this aspect of the game.
Twas exactly my argument.
But the issue is in PoE1, bulk of the campaign is filler (90% of people that played since release or hideouts/masters or fossils or delve or synthesis or pick any random point dont even bloody know what the lore of the gems is, why scion is where she is when new players unlocked her or even that she isnt there as a choice from the start, what the order side plot is and most maybe start to pay attention when sin and innocence get introduced due to mandatory yap sessions or know about the bandits more than the vaal simply because the points matter and vaal associates to the orbs, the instant lifesteal ks or the kill-charge-variant of gems), almost all dropped resource items dont stack or stack at most up to 20 despite them being able to go to massive amounts (hell just finishing the campaign while vendoring drops with no recipies or care you will end with the basics in the 8000~3000s depending on usage) and have been able to since the beta and the stores being set to make people without someone that understands whats good (and when to buy it) to pinch pennies/scam for cash that GGG doesnt need as people are willing to pay for the supporter packs AND CW stated way back a few times that the supporter packs and visuals are the main revenue source; yet nobody wanted to acknowledge any of it.
So for the power you can actually buy in the shop - Stash tabs and such are only really needed for when you get to trading and mapping. The base game of 10 acts is actually amazing and you do not have to worry about stash space for that at all. You start with the equivalent of 5 Diablo 2 stashes. When you start needing space, you'll probably have played a whole game's worth of content. Getting all stash tabs amounts to about 50-60 bucks iirc (outside sales), if you even want them.
I have like 300hours in. Never paid a dime. Not even bank expansion. 😂
well with the EA you'll be able too!
@Percival-98 nah I will wait .
@@Mr15moss fair enough!
If or when you do decide to buy something, I highly recommend getting some sort of pack instead of just buying the mtx currency. That way you get the mtx currency to buy tabs AND a bunch of mtx to deck your guy out. It's a way better deal. Hold out for a cool pack and then wait to buy tabs until a sale!
300 hours without a currency or quad tab? Sir...haha I promise you it is worth it if you can afford it.
PoE2 is what you get when the answer to every "can I" question is "Yes..."
> people in chat laughing about "$480 lifetime contributions"
> me, with 3.5k hours and over $1k sunk into PoE1:
Thats still like 30 cent per hour. That's ridiculously cheap.
I mean the people seeing $480 are just seeing a big number and thinking they have to reach that amount to get in. You only have to buy a $30 supporter pack to get in. Shit is dirt cheap lmao.
@@YuYuYuna_ also why is there even a reaction at all? the early acces gives you nothing i dont even know how much earlier youre allowed to play because i couldnt care less if its 1 day or 1 week youre able to play an AAA game for absolutly free by just waiting a bit longer. if they make a fantastic game and people who have the money to spare are willing to give them 500 bucks than good on them all the f2p users should thank those because its because of them they can play the game without spending anything.
@@ChaoZzBladex Haha it's actually 6-12 months earlier, not a day or a week. ;) Not disagreeing with you in any way, just pointing that out.
@@garhong9125 yeah ive found that out too that its about 6 months ish doesnt matter to me either but it makes the 30 bucks offer alot more tasty for sure haha :D
It doesn't surprise me that much they felt so much the need to have large amounts of content. It's a common problem of sequels to live-service games : the new game has to compete with years of content updates. This is especially true for Path of Exile, which has kept expanding exponentially ever since they released the game. League mechanics at the beginning didn't add much, they could just be a bunch of special enemies added on maps with maybe exclusive drops, now they come with new areas, NPCs, bosses, items types and mechanics. Of course, part of the reason at the time was that they were more focused on fleshing out the core content, once this was done they pivoted hard on those deep independent systems with each its own flavor.
Mechanics like ascendancies trials and mapping which didn't exist at launch but have come to be defining features of PoE were pretty much expected. Trials also needed a complete rework to be more in line with their modern endgame content. Still, it's hilariously overkill how many systems they have already in place, they didn't need to have what is essentially several years worth of league mechanics ready, that's what the beta is for.
Wonder how asmongold is going to react to this
Too busy being a politics streamer arguing with Hasan and Destiny now.
"oh wow"
@@RG32822 I'm not a fan of his either but that is the furthest from the truth lmao
@@RG32822 couldn't agree more lmao
Wait until you have a couple kids. That's the endgame of "Family Dodging". What you're doing is still the tutorial.
I have not watched this video but I agree/disagree with whatever Josh said
Thank you for lowering the value of the background audio while speaking, I can't deal with the recordings of people talking at the same time as the stream both at full volume.
Why my steam wish-list consists of in 95% of "unfinished" or early acces games ? I want to play this... sorry not done yet. I want to play that. Sorry, still in EA, final experience may vary.... So how many years it will take for PoE2 to be out of EA ? Ehh.... I already done Last Epoch while it was in EA and I am not makeing same mistake again... I want to play something that is "done" :/
You’re a idiot
EA will last 6 months to 1 year its fine lol
The only thing thats "missing" from this are 6 classes and 3 acts. The rest is a fully playable and enjoyable game bro, with consistent coming updates also. You're free to play later when it is "finished" but with all they've shown to us, youve got like 2 or 3 months to play before running out of content lol
why are you complaining. If you dont want to play EA, then wait for release.
Bro, PoE 2 EA has more content for 30$ than Diablo 4 will all DLCs xD
You are bitching about nothing, GGG isn't your typical developer, they love this game and they love gaming so they know what they are doing.
Give them a chance, you won't be disappointed (unless there will be server issues due to traffic which is expected xD)
The $30 supporter pack to gain access to the beta is literally worth $60 if you take into account the $30 worth of points. Which is enough points to buy a large amount of stash tabs. Its a $60 pack set at the value of $30. In addition the Higher tier packs also include all the lower tier items. Meaning when you pay more you are also getting more items at a linear rate with the cost.
Love you so much never change
"Stay back GGG, you bringer of systems!"
"I also bring content."
"Oh nice."
"It's more systems."
"Damn it!"
It feels like a parody of feature creep
They release new content every 4 months. The things the players really like they keep in the game forever. The others they don't. All of those things add variety and choose to the user, so a range of users can enjoy the part of the game they like the most and not interact with the others. That's not feature creep. It's the entire business model. All the things you just saw them talk about are systems they have had for years, just updated to fit into the new endgame.
@4tech69 hey thanks for the reply. I mean I get that people that already play this game get that so much content is just the standard for them, but imo it's very daunting and may be intimidating to someone who knows nothing about the game.
@@rigomortizthe nice thing is that almost none of it is required, so you can take things at your own pace. Don’t like the expedition mechanic? Ignore it, focus on other things you enjoy. You can always trade with other players to get items you might be missing from the mechanic
"Stop making it, you've already finished!"
GGG: "We're planning to double the size of the game over the duration of early access"
Omg i hate this game now. (I've never played it)
I'm just glad to see Josh excited about a game after an info dump about a new game. Typically we learn about - game - and we all cringe and just lose any excitement due to awful game design, monetization etc.
To the point at the end...Path of Exile 1 has made me exceptionally angry at times...I still greatly like it. But I understand what he's saying, and it's a great way to look at monetization..."how does giving this company money for this game make me feel."
I've given a bunch of money to Warframe, never really felt bad about it, primarily because I spent a ton of time in it before ever feeling truly compelled to spend anything, and by the time I gave them money, I genuinely felt bad NOT giving them any money. Plus, after I bought currency and inventory space, I've spent time trading to supplement what I've purchased, and the only reason I've given them as much as I have total is because I happen to have money to spare and...frankly didn't feel like other games or studios had earned my money as much. I also like the idea of "being able to play for a long while before giving the game any money and viewing that as something of a demo." That carries some weight. It's the nice thing about free-to-play games, F2P often gets a bad rap but the nice thing is there's no entry fee barring you from getting in the door, and once you're in, you're only spending your time. As SOON as you're unhappy with it...turn it off, uninstall, and never look back if that's what you want. It's no different than trying out a string of movies and shows on Netflix, or borrowing a ton of books from the library you might want to buy someday. You're trying things out, seeing if you like them and if they deserve your money and/or more of your time. If they don't, great, look to another thing. But if it does, also great, give them more time, and if you feel like it, more money.
When PLAYERS can choose those things, it's far better than players CAN'T choose those things.
I like Zizarans definition of pay to win: "will paying money change the way a game is played compared to if you do not spend money". With this definition path of exile is definitly pay to win, but the "good" thing is that stash tabs are in most cases a one time investment. If you get a supporter pack for 50 bucks you'll get all the stash tabs you'll ever need and every extra won't change much of the gameplay anymore. And stash tabs are priced way cheaper compared to skins so I guess you could say they are priced fairly
I always considered this game to be free until you are into maps (which is a daunting task to reach if you just started out), and once you are - you should spend $60 which is about how much a typical AAA game costs. This will give you enough ingame currency to purchase all bank tabs that are somewhat required to efficiently blasting the endgame. Currency tab, map tab, fragment tab, divination card tab, upgrade your basic 4 tabs to premium quality. Then if you're fancying it you can buy some league-specific tabs such as essence, blight, delirium, delve etc. But these are not required. Then you have tabs that are barely even useful such as uniques collection tab or flask tab. Flasks are 1x2 items, do you need a whole special tab for them? Hell no, but if you want to have them tidied up? You can do it.
A rare exception to this was 3.24 Necropolis league with those fucking coffins. 1x2 items that do not stack and you need 88 of them to perform a single craft (with a fully maxed out graveyard, you don't HAVE TO use 88, but you usually did). I bought two additional QUAD tabs to store this shit. And then in 3.25 all this free space was kinda useless, cos normally i don't need that much. This is the only league where I felt kinda finessed. But hey, I have those tabs FOREVER now, even in POE II. Maybe there is a time in the future where i'll need them.
Thank you Josh for the inspiration. I dropped 60 bones on POE2. Worth it. In a world of video game corporate greed, these guys should be celebrated.
outside of the first week of each league on the poe subreddit, they are celebrated.
GGG provides an insane amount of value for their offers. Just insane. And to have maybe 10% of these purchases translate to in-game advantage while the purchase remains totally valid... They are a marvel in the gaming industry. I wish I could pay for them.
"When we released early access we wanted to make sure that people feel like we weren't limping along"
Dude the only limping that anyone will do is us limping away to our workplace thinking about PoE2
Before spending a single dollar on path of exile 1 I had a little over 100 hours and beat all except 1 of the multiple end game bosses. Yeah it was a little annoying managing the 4 base tabs you get for free and using a free software to be able to sell items on their trade site. But I did it and was very very happy to pay for $40 of stash tabs, I now have over 2k hours and still feel completely fine with stash space i currently have.
I was very put off by the expensive packs in PoE. Years later, 2500+ in game hours, I have spent over $500 because I felt compelled to support them and their vision/ thank them for what they provided me. Even so, that's ~ $1/5hr of play vs many games that are ~$5/hr.
I'm gladly supporting GGG and getting that early access. This game is mind blowing of how much stuff is coming out for this title. Also 12 classes total when full release.
As a 25 year player of diablo and a HUGE diablo 2 fan. I was always overwhelmed by poe1 but ever since the announcement of poe2 ive been so excited. I think GGG has absolutely earned their reapect ESPICALLY with how blizzard has deteriorated theirs. I cant wait for the 6th. 30$ andy pack here i come!
Still gona wait for the 6th tho... NO PREORDERS means NO PRE ORDERS
I spent £10 on PoE.
For bank tabs.
And got a game that is STILL updated supported to this day.
I have NO IDEA what some players want, if GGG can't get a pass on... wanting money for the game they made.
I MIGHT lay down some cash for early access JUST on principle that I DEFINITELY owe them money... and they'll STILL give me the value of that cash as WELL as early access.
Monetisation is a sad reality of gaming. Devs need to eat. This is monetisation done by devs and not suits.
As a new player to PoE I had to drop it because I couldn't understand what I was being asked to buy to make it a pleasant experience.
I would probably be playing today if it had a "On-the-shelf Bundle" that is to say: if the game was being sold in store for 60$, what would be included in it (bank slot, currency slot, etc.)?
It is similar to Warframe, you can buy almost everything for real money (via platinum), but 90% of the store is stuff you can obtained by playing. So before putting money in it, you need to know the game in details first.
The final 'one more thing, big boss' Was actually 9 more fights, which lead to that 1 fight, which is probably after a big labrynth, so is actually 11 mechanics....
I'm living proof that PoE isn't "pay to win."
I spent $60 on the "Master Soulstealer Pack" in 2018 and that's the only purchase on my account. I paid the equivalent of a AAA game price (actually less since AAA is now $70-80) and I haven't spent a penny since. If the game was P2W then I should have had to re-up and pay again and continue do to so. For a game that some people like to call P2W it's strange how I've managed to get away with only spending $60 on it in over 8 years of playing.
Can't wait. I mean I will, but I don't want to.
If PoE was P2W, I would have definitely won by now.
I have spent less than 60$ on ALL stash tabs in over 3 THOUSAND hours, I didn't buy stash tabs until I was 1k hours deep and bought them because they look nice for sorting. Not to mention anything you pay for is interchangeable between either game.
GGG, for honesty, information and quality games, is light years beyond Bethesda.
Game is going to be so good!!!! Cant wait! I've spent about 1k in 6000 hours in the game and if I had more id support more, it's one of the few companies that I believe in and trust 100 percent, they always deliver and give us gamers the game we want and deserve. We are never saying what could of been with POE unlike games like Destiny, WoW etc. If anyone says POE 1 or 2 is pay to win they are lost. The game is free with thousands of hours of play time. If you cant support a company that gives so much after hundreds or thousands of hours you are the problem not the company. So you spend 30 dollars get a sweet cosmetics plus 300 points which is worth 30 dollars alone and you get this game for 30 dollars whoever questions this is insane. they are giving us all of our cosmetics from POE 1 transferring to POE 2. They support us every step of the way its only right we do the same thing. If you think any different you wrong, not an opinion. Kick rocks.
I've played almost 1000 hours - I get to end game then start again. That's the bit I like. Always solo. I've spent about $100. About $30 for some tabs. The rest for stuff I didn't need because I wanted to throw a few more bucks. I've got cosmetics I never use. The value is that good for me.
Something worth pointing out about Path of Exile's monetization: none of it is consumable! No subscriptions, no rentals, no timed boosts. (season pass is a bit debatable though)
It's either cosmetics which you'll never have duplicates of, or stash space which can be reused forever.
...
Except for an April Fools joke involving fireworks, in which that was exactly the joke.
There is actually one. I hope they get rid of it. But unfortunately it seems to be hard to get rid of things that already exist.
That's the regular item transmog. That should just be a normal feature of the game.
Knowing that the money I spent on a game I started playing in 2017 is actually also money I spent on the sequel to that game that came out 7 years later has me scared and confused because I'm pretty sure they're meant to have taken advantage of me and made me pay for all those things a second time like literally any other game I've ever played.