If you study previous works of Martin in science fiction, he did write about planets with irregular orbits many times. Considering there are 3rd bodies in a planetary system of the Westeros world, the reasons for irregular seasons can be “science-fictionny” in flavor. (1st body is planetos, 2nd body is the Sun, third one can be the moon that cracked in the past to give birth to dragons, also a red comet flying by) The Wall definitely relates to others but not so sure how does it affect the seasons on a planetary scale
@@Red1Green2Blue3 That's only if you consider the maester's version. Once you realize that the official timeline doesn't make any sense Is when you start to get the real interesting theories. The very same GRRM said recently that the Long Night was closer to 6-5k years ago. Closer to the uprising of Valyria than to the version of the maesters.
@@LuMoRo34 That the wall was built after the Long Night has never been disputed, by anyone. It's never even been hinted. For what you said to make sense we have to ignore an undisputed key event for no reason.
"If Blood Raven saw the Others regathering their strength, you think he would have sent word to Aegon V. But aegon was completely focused on returning dragons..." Maybe that _why_ he became so obsesssed with returning the dragons
Your story telling ability is on another level! I really enjoy your videos and have spedrun all of them within the last two days. Keep up the brilliant work ill be watching in the future!
@In Deep Geek has a credible theory of why Benji went to the wall: he told Ned Lyanna was not kidnapped and the on coming war was based on a lie. He went to the wall to avoid Roberts wrath and partly protect Lyanna/Jsnow, i think.
You do a really good job with this! The art work... the narration - just excellent! And, yeah, - I'm having some difficulty trying to figure out the overall conflict in this saga - it's not good vs evil so much as it is ice vs fire - but beyond that there IS good and evil at play... and I'm not sure a balance brings any real victory.
I think the awakening of the others is more recent...only 16 years at the first coupling of Rhaegar and Lyanna. It's somewhat suspicious to me that no living child had been born to a Stark and Targaryen before. Part of the pact could've been not mixing Northern first men (?white walker) blood with that of the dragon lords(fire magic practitioners, which predates valyria) Brandon the breaker is said to have possibly kept a child of the nights king and queen and raised it as his own. Bloodraven is also a first men/valerian hybrid, but not as directly a first man as the starks. His arrival beyond the wall might've been the white walkers first clue that the pact wasn't safe, but his blood is diluted with Andal. Jon, however, is more pure first men +Targ...his birth was possibly the last straw.
Not saying you're wrong, per se, but that doesn't explain Crastor. He's been leaving his sons out for the Others for decades. However, their seeming increased attacks on the Wildlings and raising dead does seem to be pretty recent.
I'm 99% sure that the children did in fact create the Others. It's for the metatextual reason all greeenseers (including the Night King as he is depicted on the show) and the weir wood net borrow heavily from Oden and Yggradsil of Norse Mythology. I remember watching the Knight King being impaled on a weriwood tree and saying "oh he's Oden" lol. They way they crammed it into the show makes me think this is detail directly from GRRMs outline. There's a lot more to this connection. Both Bloodraven and Oden had an eye gouged out. The name Yggradrasil is basically an Old Norse pun that means that can mean something like "Oden's horse" or "the teriible mount". Oden rides Yggradrasil thru the different planes of existence. That really rhymes thematically with the idea that weirwood net allowing Bran to "fly".
Great video! Really good I have a hard time searching for new perspectives and yours is so good. Will definetely rewatch and see your other videos thank you!!
I’m trying to reread ASOIAF and I feel like the show completely ruined the others for me because they just kinda fizzled out and really weren’t that much of a threat.
I also read a theory that the white walkers have something to do with Valyrians and that’s also why Craster practices incest (he has Valyrian blood and wants to keep it pure) and then offers the walkers his sons.
I honestly wish the author had explored the complexities of the White Walkers more deeply, especially since he mentioned wanting to avoid a black-and-white narrative like that of The Lord of the Rings trilogy, which focuses on the struggle between Good and Evil. I appreciated some suggestions online that the White Walkers might possess elvish qualities in both their appearance and culture. I also theorize that, like humans, the White Walkers fear the unknown. For them, the unknown is the chaotic nature of life and its constant changes. This fear may explain their desire to freeze the world in time and erase anything subject to change-humans, animals, and more. They seem to fear the passage of time and long to make everything immortal, just as they are. It's like how Tolkien's elves desire to make their individual realms immune to the passage of time.
Nice summary. Before I touch on theory I'd like to pose a question with regard to your analysis. You draw the connection between Valyria and the Heart of Winter. However, you stop short of attempting to, for lack of a better word, unify the magic. If I said, it was having Valyrians/Targaryens wed their their children to eachother to hatch and control the magic animals with which they are associated, you would likely agree, yes? If so, why would this not function in a similar way for other forms and families? Once some one like yourself has made this connection of Starks and ice as one does Targs and fire, wouldn't it make just as much sense to attempt to look at the events and details through the same lense? What would be the implication of a Stark with similar genealogy to the Targs? If such a Stark exists who would be the most likely candidate? Putting aside theory you like or believe, and considering only a similar framework in which magic functions regardless of it's type, what would you expect from the story? How should a story unfold if the systems of magic are reflected in eachother?
I think there was one male COF in the books, twisted in the roots. He tried to tell Bran something but was interrupted. I think the women COF didn’t agree with the Pact “It was entered into by the greenseers and wood dancers of the children of the forest” The WW need boys bc the “spell” is marked in the genetic makeup of the boys.
This is incredible! I've always suspected the Walkers are their own species, probably something silicon-based, as obsidian is their Kryptonite. Obsidian is 65% silicon, give or take. Like kills like.
I think the others are shadows like what melisandre cast under storms end and they are cast by bloodraven-like things all connected to the weirwoods. the others and melisandre’s shadow have a similar spectral description. the others use the magic from the weirwoods (which seem to be like magic conduits when you attach a bunch of bodies to the roots or soak it with blood) to raise the wights.
The death of Waymar is a test, but not an inititaion for a juvenile ice demon. The Others are testing Waymar, they fear Azor Ahai but qhen they realise this particular northern prince does not carry a magic sword they laugh and hack him down. This is juxtaposed by the show only Hardhome battle where Jon (who not only is a northern prince but like a second or third cousin of Waymar) fights a WW and his magic blade shatters the ice weapon. No skroth laughter when that happens!
I give it a C. Much more research is needed beyond reading the books once. Read it 7+ times with a thought to what was said here. What the videographer doesn't know (and is only guessing at) will become clearer. Good video as a rough draft but not anywhere close to a finished or accurate analysis.
You can freeze a steak and thaw it out and cook it next year, but would you(as an adult) thaw and eat a steak that granny put in the freezer the day before your dad was born? Generational long seasons are a great concept but i dont think GRRM really thought them through... or we, the audience, are being deceived in some manner. I bought a loaf of bread last week that through some mischance was mouldy the day after i bought it. Having enough grain stored away to feed your population for decades would need massive quantities and impact the entire economy, not to mention being raided by anyone hungry at anytime and in a long winter when people are starving how do you convince them to ration and not eat next years stores. This concept would have to be culturally in grained, most lokely via religion but instead is hardly mentioned and then only in Westeros,. Essoss certainly doesn't seem ready for a decadesnlong winter
At this point, I’ve given up on awoiaf. Martin is a Mystery Box writer and has no clue how to answer all the questions he has posed. Even the transcript releases for winds of winter leave more questions.
Why do you think he's taking so long cx it's not easy to write a massive saga like this I'm certain of it, especially one as intriguing and fun as the awoiaf books. Give it time he delivers it's just going to take time and likely more inspiration. Most people are mad that he's working on other projects but writing the same story for however long takes time and breaks he also has a life outside the books.
I think the Wall is what changed the seasons. Once it comes down, the seasons will return to normal.
If you study previous works of Martin in science fiction, he did write about planets with irregular orbits many times. Considering there are 3rd bodies in a planetary system of the Westeros world, the reasons for irregular seasons can be “science-fictionny” in flavor. (1st body is planetos, 2nd body is the Sun, third one can be the moon that cracked in the past to give birth to dragons, also a red comet flying by)
The Wall definitely relates to others but not so sure how does it affect the seasons on a planetary scale
This doesn't make sense because the Long Night happened before the wall was built.
@@ivandankob7112
GRRM wrote sci-fi, yes but he also said the problem of the seasons in ASOIAF Is totally magical.
@@Red1Green2Blue3
That's only if you consider the maester's version. Once you realize that the official timeline doesn't make any sense Is when you start to get the real interesting theories.
The very same GRRM said recently that the Long Night was closer to 6-5k years ago. Closer to the uprising of Valyria than to the version of the maesters.
@@LuMoRo34 That the wall was built after the Long Night has never been disputed, by anyone. It's never even been hinted. For what you said to make sense we have to ignore an undisputed key event for no reason.
"If Blood Raven saw the Others regathering their strength, you think he would have sent word to Aegon V. But aegon was completely focused on returning dragons..."
Maybe that _why_ he became so obsesssed with returning the dragons
That’s a good possibility as well
Your story telling ability is on another level! I really enjoy your videos and have spedrun all of them within the last two days. Keep up the brilliant work ill be watching in the future!
@In Deep Geek has a credible theory of why Benji went to the wall: he told Ned Lyanna was not kidnapped and the on coming war was based on a lie. He went to the wall to avoid Roberts wrath and partly protect Lyanna/Jsnow, i think.
I'd like to know what Bloodraven knows about the Starks and the Others.
You do a really good job with this! The art work... the narration - just excellent! And, yeah, - I'm having some difficulty trying to figure out the overall conflict in this saga - it's not good vs evil so much as it is ice vs fire - but beyond that there IS good and evil at play... and I'm not sure a balance brings any real victory.
Underrated channel
I think the awakening of the others is more recent...only 16 years at the first coupling of Rhaegar and Lyanna. It's somewhat suspicious to me that no living child had been born to a Stark and Targaryen before. Part of the pact could've been not mixing Northern first men (?white walker) blood with that of the dragon lords(fire magic practitioners, which predates valyria) Brandon the breaker is said to have possibly kept a child of the nights king and queen and raised it as his own.
Bloodraven is also a first men/valerian hybrid, but not as directly a first man as the starks. His arrival beyond the wall might've been the white walkers first clue that the pact wasn't safe, but his blood is diluted with Andal. Jon, however, is more pure first men +Targ...his birth was possibly the last straw.
Not saying you're wrong, per se, but that doesn't explain Crastor. He's been leaving his sons out for the Others for decades. However, their seeming increased attacks on the Wildlings and raising dead does seem to be pretty recent.
@@j.kyronhanson5644Bloodravens presence may have started the ball rolling. Or they've been taking offerings from people like Craster all along.
Craster claims to be a bastard son of a crow. Could ahe be son of Bloodraven??@tinahs8269
I'm 99% sure that the children did in fact create the Others. It's for the metatextual reason all greeenseers (including the Night King as he is depicted on the show) and the weir wood net borrow heavily from Oden and Yggradsil of Norse Mythology. I remember watching the Knight King being impaled on a weriwood tree and saying "oh he's Oden" lol. They way they crammed it into the show makes me think this is detail directly from GRRMs outline. There's a lot more to this connection. Both Bloodraven and Oden had an eye gouged out. The name Yggradrasil is basically an Old Norse pun that means that can mean something like "Oden's horse" or "the teriible mount". Oden rides Yggradrasil thru the different planes of existence. That really rhymes thematically with the idea that weirwood net allowing Bran to "fly".
Great video! Really good I have a hard time searching for new perspectives and yours is so good. Will definetely rewatch and see your other videos thank you!!
I’m trying to reread ASOIAF and I feel like the show completely ruined the others for me because they just kinda fizzled out and really weren’t that much of a threat.
I also read a theory that the white walkers have something to do with Valyrians and that’s also why Craster practices incest (he has Valyrian blood and wants to keep it pure) and then offers the walkers his sons.
I honestly wish the author had explored the complexities of the White Walkers more deeply, especially since he mentioned wanting to avoid a black-and-white narrative like that of The Lord of the Rings trilogy, which focuses on the struggle between Good and Evil. I appreciated some suggestions online that the White Walkers might possess elvish qualities in both their appearance and culture. I also theorize that, like humans, the White Walkers fear the unknown. For them, the unknown is the chaotic nature of life and its constant changes. This fear may explain their desire to freeze the world in time and erase anything subject to change-humans, animals, and more. They seem to fear the passage of time and long to make everything immortal, just as they are. It's like how Tolkien's elves desire to make their individual realms immune to the passage of time.
Banger video. Great topic 🔥👍
Nice summary. Before I touch on theory I'd like to pose a question with regard to your analysis. You draw the connection between Valyria and the Heart of Winter. However, you stop short of attempting to, for lack of a better word, unify the magic.
If I said, it was having Valyrians/Targaryens wed their their children to eachother to hatch and control the magic animals with which they are associated, you would likely agree, yes? If so, why would this not function in a similar way for other forms and families? Once some one like yourself has made this connection of Starks and ice as one does Targs and fire, wouldn't it make just as much sense to attempt to look at the events and details through the same lense? What would be the implication of a Stark with similar genealogy to the Targs?
If such a Stark exists who would be the most likely candidate? Putting aside theory you like or believe, and considering only a similar framework in which magic functions regardless of it's type, what would you expect from the story? How should a story unfold if the systems of magic are reflected in eachother?
I think there was one male COF in the books, twisted in the roots. He tried to tell Bran something but was interrupted.
I think the women COF didn’t agree with the Pact
“It was entered into by the greenseers and wood dancers of the children of the forest”
The WW need boys bc the “spell” is marked in the genetic makeup of the boys.
If the idea of the others being a allegory to climate change is still on martins head, i really doubt that the solution would be a diplomatic one
They knew Royce was high born and might possess a Valerian steel sword that could kill them.
Once they knew his sword was just steel, they moved in.
This is incredible! I've always suspected the Walkers are their own species, probably something silicon-based, as obsidian is their Kryptonite. Obsidian is 65% silicon, give or take. Like kills like.
I think the others are shadows like what melisandre cast under storms end and they are cast by bloodraven-like things all connected to the weirwoods. the others and melisandre’s shadow have a similar spectral description. the others use the magic from the weirwoods (which seem to be like magic conduits when you attach a bunch of bodies to the roots or soak it with blood) to raise the wights.
You only need 1 children to make a white walker.
Is GRRM just kicking the can down the road until he kicks the bucket?
That's a strong _maybe_
The death of Waymar is a test, but not an inititaion for a juvenile ice demon. The Others are testing Waymar, they fear Azor Ahai but qhen they realise this particular northern prince does not carry a magic sword they laugh and hack him down.
This is juxtaposed by the show only Hardhome battle where Jon (who not only is a northern prince but like a second or third cousin of Waymar) fights a WW and his magic blade shatters the ice weapon. No skroth laughter when that happens!
I give it a C. Much more research is needed beyond reading the books once. Read it 7+ times with a thought to what was said here. What the videographer doesn't know (and is only guessing at) will become clearer. Good video as a rough draft but not anywhere close to a finished or accurate analysis.
Good and evil are relative, especially in GRRM's books. Not subjective.
What if the kings of winter have always been starks?
Think quaithe wanted to show Daenerys the long night to the east to show Daenerys the real enemy
Again with another banger
No offense, but I just refuse to watch videos with AI narration..... no matter how bad you think your voice might be, it's always better than AI
I assume this is a well known theory, but I'm pretty damn sure the Night King is Coldhands.
Never heard this one before.
He died long ago.
I am your monster, Bran Stark.
Mayhaps a Bolton, mayhaps a Stark
You can freeze a steak and thaw it out and cook it next year, but would you(as an adult) thaw and eat a steak that granny put in the freezer the day before your dad was born?
Generational long seasons are a great concept but i dont think GRRM really thought them through... or we, the audience, are being deceived in some manner.
I bought a loaf of bread last week that through some mischance was mouldy the day after i bought it. Having enough grain stored away to feed your population for decades would need massive quantities and impact the entire economy, not to mention being raided by anyone hungry at anytime and in a long winter when people are starving how do you convince them to ration and not eat next years stores. This concept would have to be culturally in grained, most lokely via religion but instead is hardly mentioned and then only in Westeros,. Essoss certainly doesn't seem ready for a decadesnlong winter
Want more vediosss❤
At this point, I’ve given up on awoiaf.
Martin is a Mystery Box writer and has no clue how to answer all the questions he has posed.
Even the transcript releases for winds of winter leave more questions.
Why do you think he's taking so long cx it's not easy to write a massive saga like this I'm certain of it, especially one as intriguing and fun as the awoiaf books. Give it time he delivers it's just going to take time and likely more inspiration. Most people are mad that he's working on other projects but writing the same story for however long takes time and breaks he also has a life outside the books.