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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2023
- Ebikers are WRONG about the Ebike Speed Law
Ebikes are subject to some weird laws in the UK - the power limit of 250w and the throttle limit of 6kph. But the speed assistance limit isn't one of them. I'm not the biggest fan of it but I do understand it. Many (not all) ebikers are wrong when it comes to this electric bike law and here's why...
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#electricbike #ebike #ebikes - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![E-bikes Rules & Regulations you MUST know…[before you get busted]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/q7ZUKIML0hc/mqdefault.jpg)
Be sure to check out my other videos on ebike law:
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Power law: th-cam.com/video/_SqhglS_SPw/w-d-xo.html
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Under rated channel.... Really is. I got advise from you ages ago about this, and I got one, a 750w fat bike and have worked doing deliveries ever since, seen by the police many times and no issue so I just ignore the dam BS law. I just got a 1000W bike that looks like a motorbike, hopefully that goes ok, cant see why it wont, all unlocked. If there is going to be a law, maybe a 1000w and up to 20 to 25mph, only on the road or paths for cycle paths.
Sorry I missed this. Glad you enjoy the channel. And glad your ebike journey is going well and in peace 😂👍
I'm living in America and here is...
- 20 mph for cycle lane
- 28 mph for Class III(PAS)
- 35 mph for Moped(upto)
In my opinion, 20~30 mph is just quite enough. In addition, our motor power is 750 W nominal, don't care about peak power. The speed limit could be different from each area, but my opinion is if the cycle lane is fully covered in the city, we do not need to run faster, but in some point we must share the line with other car and motorcycle in the downtown or some narrow area. And in this case, if we ride slow speed, I think both, me and other car are dangerous to each other. So, I personally choice speeding, go on a sidewalk(legal here) or slowdown and passing the car or far away from the car. (...and must check my radar detector first, when I'm speeding.)
Race bikes go faster than most e-bikes yet there is no law far them
20mph is the default in Wales in built up areas for all vehicles now, so maybe 20mph would be a better top speed.
I thought the same.
me too
If you have an ordinary mountain bike with 21 gears you can go far faster than 15mph ,so will a bike law pertain to ordinary bikes also .It makes no sense .In towns and built up areas you would need to go slower but if you live somewhere more open you should be allowed to go faster.If they bring in pathetic laws then the sale of ebikes will drop drastically
@@celticbhoy14 agreed keep the gov out. get more cars off the road
A bike isn’t classed as a vehicle under law
Couple of things touched on in the video 1. throttle should be able to propel the bicycle up to its regulated speed can’t see why this is a problem 2. the maximum speed under assistance should be 20 mph which not only brings us in line with other European Countries but coupled with the throttle would enable the ( more mature) rider to navigate normal road gradients without having to keep peddling like mad to get up the gradient.
it is possible to make throttle legal, but they need special approval
th-cam.com/video/QAwJUePQJQ4/w-d-xo.html
Which countries in Europe allow 20mph on e-bikes without registration etc? I thought the 15.5mph was because of EU laws?
@@badabing8884 yes 25 km/h or 15.5 mph is the standard in Europe, however I think they should allow more power, with drivers license, to maintain speed uphills.
Possibly keep the cutoff speed at 25 km/h
Possibly only 250 W at startup, but allow more power to accelerate and maintain 25 km/h.
15.5 MPH is the EU e-bike equivalent to 25 KPH e-bike laws adopted by the UK are all EU laws.
From personal experience and talking to local bike shops. The consensuses is that 18mph would be the ideal speed before the pedal assist stops. This is a very reasonable speed and a speed that is easily achievable on the flat by the average rider on a non powered bike. Even at that speed a razer blade on wheels will flash past me like I am standing still!!! 18mph is still a safe speed, having costed down a hill at 30mph I was aware that if something happened and I came off it was going to be very painful. I agree with your observation about the bike traveling at 25mph. As a professional driver and cyclist I can see both sides of the argument and I drive my waggon in a way that is respectful to all road users. The biggest frustration I have is the 250 watt restriction. What you have to consider is that as soon as you pass 15.5mph you are suddenly affected by the weight of the bike and maybe a little motor drag. On my Bosch powered Scott Aspect there is very little motor drag but its a 25Kg bike before you add items like penners and other accessories. I am maybe a little over weight at 100Kg but even on a medium to steep climb the motor is too weak to provide usable assistance even in 2nd gear. I suspect the motor is more than 250 watt as the bike is sold outside the EU and its unlikely that they do a different motor for different laws. They simply put a power restrictor on it for the EU market. But I could be wrong.
My biggest problem is the motor and throttle laws, it’s ridiculous. One of the first videos I did on my channel a couple of months ago I stated I’d be happy with 15.5mph as long as I could have a 750w motor to get me there. I weigh 250lb.
On Saturday I rode nearly 50 miles on my Engwe Engine X in PAS 5 and rarely went above 16-17 mph unless it was downhill. (I’ve modified my Engine X to 50ah by the way)
I agree about the brakes … I have Magura MT5e’s on the front and 2 piston hydraulics on the rear. Mechanical brakes don’t cut it on the 20x4 fat e-bikes. Helmets and mirrors should be compulsory too as well as brake lights.
All that said … 20mph is a happy medium, get rid of that ridiculous throttle law (it’s dangerous) and help heavier riders with 750w motors. Let us be responsible for ourselves and stop throwing ebikers in the same category as 15 year olds in balaclavas riding on the pavements two up at 50mph.
Bang on. Totally agree with everything you said 👍
I'm an adult capable of making my own decisions, and of taking my own acceptable level of risk.
Therefore, no requirement imposing helmet or mirrors is acceptable.
If YOU want those things no one is preventing you from having them.
@@rayrussell6258 well done you. And when you finally have an accident and you get you head caved in let me know how the replacement brain operation went.
@@ModProjects4306 I'm close to 70 and I've been riding bikes for 60 years, no mirrors or helmet, I can turn my head and look around just fine; it's foolish to not LIVE LIFE, because you worry about the sky falling all the time and can't enjoy anything.
Sorry you are so sad ModProj, and think it's your job to tell others how to live their life; it must be miserable being you.
Apparently the shop bought 250w as we know it are actually 500w, this was revealed by an ex engineer of bosch
I hear what you're saying about motorists having an irresistible urge to overtake a bike (electric or otherwise). However, rather than bowing to a human feeling, surely we should be focussing more on educating motorists (including ourselves) that the roads are a shared resource. In the interests of respect and safety, we should be promoting tolerance and and a bit of empathy. This works both ways, of course - As e-bikers, we also have a responsibility to behave safely and respect other road users. It all comes down to a bit of give and take and showing some self control. Personally I think powered assist to 20mph is a reasonable compromise between safety and encouraging folks to see the bike as a viable alternative to the car for shorter trips. Always entertaining videos - keep 'em coming! 🙂
I’m literally 25 years old and have been driving since 17 and I have steadily seen motorists get stupider and less patient each year…I think education is the way but I think to many people just don’t care sadly.
I think that after many years of cycling and being able to easily achieve 17 mph +, that e bikes should be able to do 20mph to keep up with the flow of traffic better
US e-biker here, Speed is completely based on location. 30mph is dangerous on a sidewalk, a busy city, or a crowded road. but if you are headed down an open highway you spend less time in the way of traffic if you can. Car traffic will be less angry on someone going 30mph, than going 10mph and blocking them. Naturally, there will be more accidents and deaths, it's a new thing and the hobby exploded faster than pickleball. My e-bike can go 50+ and I have hit those speeds to merge with traffic for short distances so I'm not stopping the flow and going back to the shoulder when it's safe. It's simply safer for me to travel at highway speeds than it is for me to go 12mph on a canyon road holding back traffic and forcing cars to go into oncoming traffic to pass.
Indeed.. Your roads and sidewalks are very different to ours.. Ours are small and unkempt. Many need work. Still our laws are ridiculous.
Can see at some point e-bikes will have to be registered and insured because of the immature ridders, it is coming
IMHO:
Without a license: 15.5mph
With a CBT: 25mph
With a full license and no limit-select: 35mph
With a full license and limit-select: 35mph limit mode 70mph unlimited-mode.
All should have a 10mph "Pedestrian mode" with green flashing rear lights.
Spot on 👍
I'd be happy with 20mph, it's the speed limit in most town centres and residential areas. If I'm in my car following another vehicle (bicycles included!) doing 25, I'm not going to try to overtake, and I'm quite impatient.
If we are able to maintain a speed of 20 mph, although still slower than other road users, we enjoy the advantage of easily stopping, allowing them to pass and then resuming our journey without the significant energy expenditure required of traditional cyclists.
Moreover, it is crucial to embrace initiatives similar to those in Denmark, where dedicated cycle routes not only connect towns by cutting across the countryside but also require regular road sweeping to ensure debris-free paths, enhancing safety for cyclists.
That would never happen here, as the road sweepers barely clean the normal roads.
I feel like if you are over a certain age u should be able to go 30mph, u can now but registering an Ebike as a moped is so impossible. But I also believe an Ebike should be able to have any power and speed but we need to ride at speed limits. Just because then we the people can use the ebike for commuting to work at 15-30mph or able to play around off road with the higher wattages
Man that sucks that the laws are so Draconian there in Europe. I’m in the middle of building a dual 3.5kw, 72v on a tiny Swagtron EB5 i scored that was non working for about 30 quid. I’m of course in rural, central Florida where no one is really paying attention to e-bikes or high powered scooters. A guy about 10lm from here built an 8kw mtn bike that has gone 86mph. I have not met a single person here in the USA that has an ebike or scooter speed limited to what the laws state. Even my daily commuter Swagtron EB7 with only a 350w motor, dual batteries, & controller shunt mod increased top speed from 15.6mph to 28.7. Add in the 69t front chainring and I can pedal it to 32mph. Granted this part of Florida is low population so it’s more or less animals you have to worry about hitting as almost no one walks here, especially when summers can exceed 40C in temps. We also do not have the scooter restrictions here either. I have an Evolv Sprint that will get a dual 1kw motor upgrade from the stock 36v 400w single motor setup. I wish you guys luck over there with those laws. Over here, California, NYC, and other liberal run areas are attempting to follow EU laws, but the rest of the country here is still wide open on things. We don’t even require smog or auto inspections here in Florida. So, for now, we get to enjoy a bit more freedom than most places. I’m going to create a new channel showcasing my builds very soon. Cheers from Sebring, FL!!
I'd like to weigh in here. I'm in America and my State's e-bike laws are 750w and 20mph. I'm currently riding the Jasion EB3. I find that on that small bike 12 mph is enjoyable AND safer to control. The faster I go the harder it is to control. 7mph is also enjoyable but there's less stability and a lot of handlebars jerking to keep straight. I'm assuming that on a larger bike the 20mph would be more satisfying and easier to control. With the EB3 I can barely go one-handed let alone hands free. On my 26" regular mountain bike I can go hands free at 7-8mph and the faster I go the easier it becomes to stay hands free even rounding corners. That's impossible with the EB3.
You're correct that while driving the instinct is to overtake the rider. Before my State's bike laws included or differentiated internal combustion from electric bikes I was able to go 40mph on my diy 2-stroke conversion bike. Whenever I'd be riding in a 35mph zone at 35-36mph cars would ALWAYS speed up and pass me exceeding the posted speed limit to do so. "Nevermind the law, I absolutely require of myself to break the speed law and illegally pass this puny bicycle" 😢 People see a bicycle and have the insatiable desire to pass it. 🤷
Now that the law has been updated it's better because they can pass me much safer than before.
I agree with a lot of the other commenters here, 20 MPH.
I'm not sure I can pedal my Engwe EP-2 Pro any faster anyway thanks to the damn fat tyres. It's so heavy that I'm starting to regret buying it instead of say the C-20 Pro. I'm even thinking of swapping the tyres out for semi slicks like the Kenda Kraze or the CST range.
Fatbikes love to EAT batteries . They are very inefficient, only good in the sand or snow...
I wish we had more freedom in this country it wouldn't surprise me if ebikes were banned , we can't have any fun these days.
I wouldn't be surprised if private ebikes were banned by hired ones were legal, as with scooters, you see the rich who make the laws can buy shares in the hire companies before passing the law
My argument about 250 watts is that I live in a hilly area, and 250 watts doesn't have the power to get the bike up steep hills, so it's like a hill tax, for me sudden de-acceleration can be dangerous if a car is close behind you, which happens a lot
exactly,, and doing a hill start on a stationary ebike with the extra weight of the motor and battery is sometimes impossible for older people
I have bought a Eskuta sx-250 series iii. Thanks for your encouragement from your videos. I find where I live is hilly, uphill downhill. I moved from a flat area you could go anywhere on my mountain bike. But I moved two years ago to a hiilly area.
Back to speed question. It would be nice to have a speed of 20mph. Because every car and lorry are trying to pass me. I feel that at 20mph I might not be such a hinderence. The brakes on the sx-250 series iii are disk brakes. Which stop very good. I hope that my feedback helps. All the best Ron from South Derbyshire.
I loved the Eskuta but I did wish with pedalling you could get it to about 20. I did sneakily derestrict it for a bit but the battery ran down fast.
How are you finding the eskuta does up hills? I was fairly impressed and it's good that you CAN help by pedalling when going up hill.
It's definitely nice having the ability to keep with traffic depending on the road and situation. However, in the past few months I've also realized that it's often easier to ride slower than traffic. Here in the USA, even if I am on a Class 3 bike doing 28mph in a 25mph zone, it's still stuck in every driver's mind "I NEED to pass the bike" leading to an even angrier driver. Cruising at less than the speed limit does seem to cause less headaches. Likewise, on the trails I often putt with the motor off or low assist levels and never touch the throttle. I know from experience as a pedestrian that bicycles, assisted or not, just love to whiz by without warning so I always keep a bell on my bike to alert people. I often get thanked for ringing and calling out. It's important to keep the public's view of E-Bikes positive.
Totally agree... oh hey I've seen your videos. Love what you do with a 3d printer 👍👍
Ive had aggressive road rage today from and idiot in a big mercedes
.
I was following a truck in a big line of traffic at 20 - 30 mph for half a mile
.
Then all of a sudden he accelerated along side me shouting and swearing cus he obviously didnt like following a bike
.
He went absolutely nuts at me for just following traffic then slammed his brakes on
.
I just went onto the footpath and turned off cus hes obviously got serious mental health problems 🤪
.
.
In 2000 miles ive only had 3 raging drivers go mad at me because im following traffic
.
.
I guess for some people, when they are bejng held up by traffic, theyve got to blaim the cyclist rather than the 10 vehicles im following 🙄🤦♂️
EDIT..... IN A 30MPH ZONE
@goldenegg1063 sorry you had to put up with this. Some people are idiots sadly. Tables turned he'd be raging at all the cars.
@e-VRC lol yes.... when he sped in front then slammed his brakes on,
.
Thats when i took the pavement and just turned into a housing estate to take the long but quiet route back
.
I left him there all angry and fighty after hed just took his seatbelt off and opened the door
.
.
The 10+ cars behind would of seen it all and got annoyed at him for stopping on a steap hill
.
.
The best bit is just up the road is more traffic lights and more roadworks just after 😅
.
.
He must of sat there for ages looking like a right T##T,
with all those people behind him blaiming him for missing the green light at the top and holding THEM up 😅
.
.
Ahhhhhh Instant KARMA
I think it depends on the rider experience and road awareness along with the bike capabilities i.e decent brakes. Also a CBT or motorbike license could be required for over 15mph...
No special licensing, governments already reach too far into our personal space.
Truthfully, the license laws they have are really more about revenues for government than they are for safety.
There are legal electric bikes that can do more with a motorbike license etc.
I personally think that 25km per hour seems to be a good speed to ride on open roads
Too slow. I can run faster than that and I'm not even young.
Going slow will cause more accidents than going faster ,you see that on motorways with cars ,it`s always some slow idiot that hops a lane and bobs your uncle theres a pile up .The bike laws are being made up by people who don`t even cycle ,that have probably never cycled and yet they think they know everything about bikes and speed limits ,it`s a total joke
Very good point as a have driver that has had my licence. Taken from me because of a seizure and great full for my e bike. If you mention cbt idea I would be except. As need bare minimum profin
You get a lot of drivers trying to pass you when you’re riding a motorcycle with L plates on.
Hi,
My perspective, and I am only playing the devils advocate as a legal analyst on this one, is that, existing moped and eMoped laws specify that they have to be legally restricted to 28mph maximum speed, which is only 12.5 mph more than an eBike anyway, but they require reg, insurance you to be over 16 and have a at least a provisional driving license.
The point here is that given the fact that in reality the only main difference is throttle and 12.5mph top end this gives very little wiggle room between the 2 classes for any speed increase.
That is without first changing the law and legally increasing the moped classification top speed which simply isn’t going to happen, for the safety reason that many 16 year olds are inexperienced at driving a motor vehicles on the road in traffic, as they are first time road users.
So QED, this is a totally mute point as it is never going to legally happen anyway.
Best Regards, Ben
VPN, City-Desk:
I agree with all your opinions on these matters. It'sbasically what I would have said; however, there are a couple of general misconceptions I'd like to comment on:
Firstly, throttles are allowed and are not restricted to 6 km/hr. The rule is that the power must stop when you stop pedalling unless you're speed is less than 6km/hr. In other words, the throttle can be used as a speed or power regulator, which is much easier than pushing buttons on an LCD. The government says "twist and go" is not allowed, meaning power without pedalling is not allowed. Some controllers (KT brand) have settings, where the throttle will give independent power up to 6km/hr, then continue as a speed regulator up to 25km/hr as long as you turn the pedals.
Secondly, there is no 250w power limit. The law says that you cannot use a motor "rated" at more than 250w. When an engineer does a rating, they might typically use a safety factor of 3 or 4 times, but there is no rule or regulation about how they do their rating, especially when they have to consider every type of niche use and abuse of their motor. In other words, a motor that can produce a maximum output power of say 2kw, could be and has been rated at 250w by the manufacturer and is perfectly legal to use in a UK ebike without licence and registration.
As a non-ebike cyclist, I'm often at around 25mph in 30 limits. As recommended in the Highway Code, if I don't feel it's safe for motorists to overtake, I'll adopt prime position well out in the lane so they simply cannot overtake without using the other lane.
Too many cyclists ride in the gutter which encourages unsafe, even illegal, overtakes
Yup I ride my skateboard like that. It’s my lane now deal with it. Drivers can take it up with the people who open their doors without looking and drive too close when I do leave space
I have no issues on a bicycle or a recumbent trike. I ride in a similar fashion to yourself. Due to my training as an Advanced Rider and Driver though , I beleive has made me a very safe cyclist.
Precisely. And riding in the gutter is in itself a hazard - having to avoid deep drains, pot-holes etc, with little room for maneuver when vehicles are overtaking you. Drivers don't always give you the required distance when passing, so we're often forced to ride tight to the kerb.
In the US the law for cyclist is ride as far to the right as is safe and cars must pass with a minimum of 3 feet, and your well out in the lane is just your ego and will get you hurt or worse.
@@ohwell2790Sort of- it’s actually similar to the UK in that you take more of the lane if it’s not wide enough, primary position. An extract from the USA rules and regulations for cyclists:
Lane Positioning
Bikes can share the same lane with other drivers. If a lane is wide enough to share with another vehicle (about 14 feet), ride three feet to the right of traffic. If the lane is not wide enough to share, “take the lane” by riding in the middle.
I’m really glad that I live in the states! Theoretically, 28 mph is the law, many ebikes go faster! They just have to be unlocked. We have e-bikes that go 40 mph! But, unlike Europe, we have empty sidewalks and streets. People DON’T walk here! Something that probably contributes to our obesity!
Hi HAD E26 2 weeks and i think 18/20 mph and give use Throttle power as good at traffic lights/hills/rounder abots.
A throttle is actually legal up to 15.5 mph, if it only works when your turning the pedals. On mine, you don't have to apply any force to them as just windmilling them around is good enough. Re cable operated disk brakes, the limiting factor is normally the grip between the tyre and the road. I can't see the minor increase in speed needing upgraded brakes.
Re speed limit I would prefer 20 mph, which would make it easier to keep up with non-assisted bikes (at the moment I tend to go faster uphill, slower on the level bits).
In the USA there are many people who use 750w ebikes who would have a heart attack if they had to use pedal power alone.
I'd say 20. However what about the assistance being slowly being reduced from full at 15mph to zero at 20mph. I have hit 44mph on my Trek Rail 5 on a straight downhill tarmac country road. Pretty hairy scary even though safe in the circumstances
On my British built/made e-bike the motor cuts out around 17mph, the handbook states there is a plus/minus allowance I presume this is allowed in law.
I have a 250w Jorvik electric mountain trike which weighs 50+kgs, plus tools, etc. I weigh about 85kgs. It does have a "throttle" but this will only power the trike to walking speed, on level ground.
On even the gentlest slope, a hill start is very difficult, if not impossible. 250w is not nearly enough power to pull away safely uphill at a busy road junction. If there is loose gravel, it's even worse.
I do not have a real problem with the max powered speed. At 74, 15.5 mph is quite fast enough for me, but 20mph would be better.
I think you hit the nail on the head, hence the lower speed of 15mph...so not to interfere with the 20 mph zones being brought in across the UK. Good video, thanks AI
There is something to be said with being able to flow with the traffic. When you are slower than the traffic, relatively speaking, you & the traffic behind you are moving towards each other.
Why has nobody mentioned the Pedibal E-Cruiza Throttle DVSA certified Ebike.
The first ebike to apparently be certified for use with a throttle.
The necessity to limit the speed to something comparable to normal bicycles is one factor. It affects blake-types, illuminatioon required, hemet-type etc. , the 2nd factor is that average speed increases will rapidly reduce the survivability and types and severity of injuries.
Advantage of the 25Km limit is that we will be talking about bicycles with an added motor to help with hills etc. rather than about mopeds that have pedals to camouflage that they are not realistically comparable to bicycles and require better brakes, lighting, helmets etc.
Personally, I'd prefer the limit to be raise to 18-20 mph. But I can live with 15.5
I've done a bit over 4k on an ebike and to be honest the speed assist limit doesn't bother me considering you can use them anywhere a normal bike is allowed
I think the problem is if you de-restrict them too much you get idiots riding them like nutters on pavements etc, and it just ruins it for everybody else.
sounds unusual to say increase usual speed to match the car decrease so both are doing 18-20
Cars seem to linger at 18 mph when passing a 16 mph bike.
Wonder what a battery only e bike be like up a hill. Be nice to go uphill at 12 mph instead of 6 so they're going to need a throttle for that
Power limit is my main pain point.
I live in Finland, I need a fatbike to go through some roads that are covered in snow, 250W is like, 10kph....
Totally agree. I feel like people should be able to do 25kph uphill too
It would be nice to have a 2 classification system:
Category 1- 15.5mph 250w nominal (as existing) no license required
Category 2- 25mph 750w nominal for existing driving licence holders
There is clear legislation (existing) about this- you can ride a bike (ebike or moped) that will do 20-30mph if it is registered, taxed and you have the correct license. There has to be a lower motorised class distinction (the current 15.5mph) so that there is an option to for those that don’t want to gain a license and registration/insurance costs. I have a 250w legal ebike, a 1,450w 58v custom which has a road legal mode to get me to the off-road riding and a 80kw motorcycle for longer faster riding. My 250w ebike is great for getting in and out of town and is efficient enough to be pedalled at double the cut off motor speed.
As a side note there aren’t any actual 250w e-bikes, that is the nominal continuous output at the 15.5mph cut of when not under any load- most 36v 250w e-bikes have a maximum power output of 630(ish)w- that’s 42v at 100% battery x 15amps output.
Ok so here my take,
1 -15.5mph is fast enough for a e-bicycle -reason for this is that I’m a city dweller and I have seen how a large majority of unregulated “e-bicycle” speed bus none e-bicycle in a narrow cycle lane
2-you state what is the difference between a car user who has taken a test years ago compared to a cyclist -for a start the driver needs an annual MOT to make sure the motor is road worthy and I can tell as a bicycle mechanic I see a lot a e-bike that I would ride with no motored assist let alone with one.Then the car is registered to a single user or family and if lets say someone was to jump a red light and hit and run there is a far greater chance that the motor could be identified.
3- if you want to go 30min then get a moped or in another method just use a cycle.
In the city bicycle are a mode of transport for most for other it is just a way to piss about and have fun and then there are thouse that are just dick heads “you now who you are”
The main thing when riding any kind of bicycle is to be alert to your surroundings and follow the rules of the road,traffic rules and the highway code. This also applies to any vehicle on the road ,whether it's a normal non-electic bike or a HGV.
Gotta love the logic of: "Car drivers are entitled and will make dangerous passes even when there's little to no actual gain... therefore we must limit a completely different vehicle."
Cars... the problem is cars.....
Now I actually do think that 25kph, is perfectly fine for my e-bike. It's quite relaxing and I feel like it is a good maximum speed for any bike lane that interacts with pedestrians. I do go significantly faster on my regular old bike, but I'm honestly glad e-bikes are limited like that.
However, with city planning being what it is, I am often forced up on the 50kph roads, which I hate, though I feel that would be a lot safer if I could hit a switch and get a temporary speed boost to keep up with traffic. Though as you point out, as long as I'm on something that resembles a bicycle I could be doing 100kph and every car would still feel the primal need to evertake me.
I would like to add something that does not get mentioned much in the "speed" debate, BRAKING! I ride a Crazybird JUmper and on the whole I love it however... I have some hills (not too much of a gradient) near me and when descending, just freewheeling the bike will very quickly get up to 20+ MPH. The Crazybird is a very heavy bike at at times I think the brakes have to work VERY hard to slow you down. 15MPH is plenty fast enough for me, I think if I was doing 20mph and had to stop quickly the brakes would not be up to it.
Ebike current legislation
I have been considering the issues you raised in your videos regards ebike current legislation.
The issues are far more complex and far reaching than just speed, power , throttle ,etc.
You touch on some of the fundamental problems associated with electrical assisted bikes which also apply to scooters.
I believe a complete review of the law is long overdue.
This review should not only encompass speed, power output, throttle usage but include the following:
Vehicle road suitability ( maintenance and possible test by approved test engineer)
Vehicle classification
Rider road training and competence (CBT)
Possible vehicle insurance
Possible registration
At present no support structure exists to even maintain electric bikes or scooters to safe road suitability.
There is no requirement for riders to be road competent.
It's almost impossible to register an ebike currently with the DVLA (if you so desired)
I see the main requirements as follows:
1. Vehicle to be road worthy and compliant to new regulations
2. Driver competent to use said vehicle
3 Driver to comply with the highway code regulations.
Speed, power output, throttle usage would be irrelevant if
Items (1-3) are adhered to.
I am am a 68 year old disabled driver who has ridden ebikes since their first introduction years ago and l ride them for health reasons as well as for fun.
I am currently deliberately breaking the law by riding a powerful ebike with a 750 w motor derestricted with a throttle fitted because I need to overcome the inertia of a heavy bike with a pedal assist system that requires me to turn the crank several times before the motor engages which because of my disability and weight I find difficult.
I am allowed to modify my motor vehicle to accommodate my disability so I do the same with my ebike even if I am breaking the law for the first time in my half century of driving.
I have a full driving licence and have been driving cars, motorcycles etc. For over 50 years and hold a current CBT motorcycle license.
My observations are based upon my experience gained during this time.
And I feel It's not so much the vehicle or power that is dangerous but incompetent drivers using unroadworthy vehicles not complying to the current legislation as other road users have to.
I personally would be willing to undergo some form of ebike CBT if it existed
Have my bike maintained serviced and tested by competently trained cycle engineers if they existed.
Insure my bike if proper insurance schemes were available.
Obviously my comments are controversial but not only the law but the complete support structure regarding electrically assisted vehicles need to be addressed by concerned and informed parties and not just some uninformed unelected committee of politically motivated MPs .
at least as fast as a maximum speed of normal bike on flat road, i know it depends on ho fit you are but we could agree on 30 to 35km/h easily, but honestly i could live with that speed limit but the power is a bigger problem 250W cannot climb a hill from stop, only middle drives can do that but they are more expensive and wear the gears quickly
In Australia so same laws as the UK pretty sure, idk about mph but our limit is 25kmh 250w motor. I feel like 25kmh is just a bit too slow, and 30kmh is perfect. YES i like to go faster than 30kmh but 30 feels good. I have 2 bikes one is a 250w road legal ebike the other is a 1500w custom, and on the 1500w 30kmh feels pretty safe and is perfect to not disrupt traffic too much and also feels safer because of the same reason being you dont disrupt the flow of traffic as much which means calmer drivers making safer overtaking decisions
I think 19-20 mph would be just about enough my issue is that my bike doesn’t have gearing for me to go faster than that. It’s almost as if it is designed around that 15.5mph speed limit.
20 - 25 mph is adequate, live in S London and downhill on an L20 on level 3 assist can easily overtake a bus where there's no bike lane, on the flat / uphill even on greater "assist" am right on it's tail ... infuriating
Keeping up with traffic is the most important reason to up the speed limit, what if you're on a narrow road where cars can't easily overtake, if you're sitting at 15mph the cars behind a more likely to get frustrated and do something stupid, and we know who's going to lose that interaction. Where As if you're doing 25mph the cars behind a more likely to wait it out
25mph out of towns and so on, 15.5 is fine in those areas (crowded, congested) and i agree some sort of test just to make sure were safer for a bit more powerful bike, i wouldnty mind paying 50 bucks to be able to ride a 750wat bike legally
Great content, for myself I’m happy with 15.5 mph anything over that is painful 👍
A lot of recent imported e-bikes are actually mechanically very safe…they have sturdy frames, fat tyres designed to provide high grip even on loose materials and hydraulic disc brakes which are very effective. Some like the Cyrusher Kommoda now include a built in rear light and brake light. In cycle terms these machines are over engineered. As such the cycle is perfectly safe to operate at 30mph and probably 10mph more than that! The PROBLEM is the competence and care of the rider. Kids and young adults with no formal road craft training are the ones doing 90% of the inconsiderate, unsafe and illegal riding….They just don’t give a fig, until they are hit by a vehicle or run into a person. Not all young riders are unsafe or reckless, but the ones that are, bring scorn and draconian regulation down upon us all. I believe we need two or three tiers of ebike regs. T1: All ages may operate an electric vehicle upto 4 mph including on most otherwise pedestrian areas. T2: E bikes/trikes/ scooters and mono wheels for 18+ year olds limited to 20 mph subject to passing a mandatory basic road safety and awareness course. T3: E bikes/trikes/scooters (probably not mono wheels) upto 30 mph IF a full car/motorcycle/truck licence has been passed to validate knowledge of Roadcraft and theory elements.
What we do not need…is more draconian, authoritarian police state control under the false guise of “safety”.
What we DO need is a firmer application of existing road law to riders who ignore the rules and safe riding practice.
I like my 250W bike which is unrestricted, so doesn't cut off at 15.5mph. If it did I would be doing 95% of the journey with no assistance, because I'm not going to want to cruise at only 15.5mph on any bike. The assistance at higher speeds is far less noticable than at lower speeds anyway, and is really just taking the edge off it, and making me want to get out and cycle more
I feel like my ebike is braking at 15.5mph is this normal?
The 250w motors are only 250w nominal but there much more! Its how the manufacturers can get around the EU 250w law like my bosch gen 4 is 250w nominal at stand still but max output is 600w it won't provide 600w constantly but will push a good 330w atleast
18mph that is the average speed I used to travel on a normal bike back in the day, so 18mph on ebike, after passing a test similar to scooter then upp allowable speed to 30mph. Also include age limit to faster speeds. The watt law is nonsense as most of us oldies use ebikes because of hills and higher watts is needed for hills. I like the ebike I have as it has several settings and I have found I use the higher settings for hills not for speed. nice vid cheers
The part that you said about autos not limited but Ebikes are same as motor cycles aren’t limited maybe cars should be limited at 100 km 62 mph and be less accidents on the hwy and you won’t need cops out on the hwy and just stay in the city
My e scooter does 40mph in uk never ever been stopped or even questioned. If anything people are curious at how fast they can be pushed too. Scotland btw not a city.
Have to agree with that part, when previous having 24 or 27 speed, climbing down to 7, 8 or 9 gears could seem much but works harder.after 15.5 probably i be doing 20-22 in top gear with 24 gears and might get 18 with an 8 gear e bike
What it seems like is the 1970"s all over again with 5 speed or 10 but with assist that stops working at 15.5
Give me a throttle and I be happier
when people were 10, they ride within capability. Of course going downhill a thrill whatever age. If a 10 year old was doing 10 mph, that feels like the bee's knees. Give them a throttle and end up doing 20.
That would be the same as 12 and 14.
When they're 16, their bike would be the same as a 36 year olds, both with the same throttle and the same bikes. Nobody is forcing either to go for it but it's there if they need a bit extra.
3 mph is walking pace, 4 mph a bit quicker, 6 mph jogging. Probably 6 mph be the equivelant of a walkers amble.
12-15 mph be quite normal. Possibly do 20&22 on a straight in 24th. Would I need to do 30. It would be a bit weird if I was going up the street doing 30 before or doing 30 going to town.
Won't achieve 30 with 8 or 9 gears anyway. Probably won't manage 25.
I'd be shocked if cannot get to 20 mph after passing 15.5 if the motor hinders.
Why drop down from 24 gears to 8. Then again probably half the gears I have don't use. 12 gears would be better than 8 but if in 12th top gear, probably end up feeling the drum, not sure. 20 mph all round be ok. 10-15 for town, 15-20 elsewhere. Could do 25 in 24th but might not get that after assist goes off.
Assist is always going to there if they set it at 30 mph wether they're doing 8, 12, 16, 18.. what's the point if setting it at 30 if wasn't doing that in the first place. Making it easier on the legs ain't going to make me do an extra 5.
If it gets harder to reach 20 after coming out of 15.5, doomed.
Hard question, because my city has a lot of hills. If I took a bike that maxed out at 15 mph, I would be walking it up multiple hills.
Sometimes you need more power not for speed, but for terrain. I would personally say 35 mph max and expect I could do maybe 15 up a hill.
Like I said in the power video the problem for a lot of people is hills. If we had say 1000w instead of 250, the bike could still be limited to 15.5mph but it would be able to get to that speed up a hill too.
@@e-VRC That's reasonable, but I am not sure how you could prevent a person from unlocking the bike in software or a hardware upgrade to get max power at all times from 1000w
A bit late to the party on this one, but not sure I accept the argument when it comes to cars overtaking bicycles. There are 2 sides to this coin. How frustrating would it be to get stuck behind an extremely slow cyclist and unable to overtake. In a situation like that the urge would be even greater because, as a driver you are been held back even more than if the cyclist were travelling at a relatively decent speed.
Also, your vehicles ability to accelerate from a very slow speed up to a sufficient speed that would allow you to get past the slow cyclist would actually take longer than if you were accelerating from say 20mph where your vehicle already has a reasonable amount of momentum.
The biggest energy requirement for anything is when it is accelerating from standstill. So, the nearer to 0mph you are the more effort is required from the engine in order to accelerate up to the speed required in order to overtake sufficiently making it much more of a risk, in my view.
Good points well made. Faster and more power does make them into mopeds and these have rules. Maybe allowing them to be registered and licencing the rider is a solution. Obviously slow and low power gives freedom of where to ride and no licence needed. Mine is over 6years old so legally has a throttle. At 250w it is not speeding anywhere and needs pedalling up hills. Whatever speed I go, it beats walking and unassisted cycling, so I'm not complaining.
True, even 250w no throttle ebikes are amazing. And yeah it's the freedom of where to ride that is important, it's not always about commuting.
I think the limit should be increased to the speed that a physically fit rider of a non-electric bike would typically manage on a flat surface. So around 25-30 mph.
The 15.5mph is fine with me, the bike has helped me improve my health. Saw a video recently where a UK supplier took bikes that they’d assembled to the Government to be tested and allowed to use a throttle up to the permitted speed, each bike needed testing individually for approval.
I think the 15.5mph should be for motor only, but if the motor assists you pedaling which is meant to, which is the whole point of electric assisted, but be dangerous the do 15.5 on some roads. I would say if your pedaling and using motor then speed be max 30-35 mph and shouldn't matter on motor wattage or volts, of the controller should be a fixed mph that way you can do 15 or 30 uphill not matter the degree of the hill or persons weight. Most road cyclist can ride 20-30mph with out ebikes
The issue for me is riding on shared paths. Even then I slow right down to 10mph and below because of pedestrians and dogs and ring my bell to alert them. But then my primary reason for getting an ebike is exercise.
We need more protected cycling infrastructure from traffic not more speed imo. Also could have more LTNs. But these are controversial.
If you want to go faster than 20mph then get yourself a speed pedelec to overtake and keep up with traffic. But then you should only use them on roads and get them registered with DVLA etc.
Edit: not mentioned in this video is the Government consultation of increasing e-bikes to 500w (still capped at 15.5mph) and throttle based bikes to 15.5mph. The consultation comes to an end on April 25. Have your say if you feel strongly enough.
As far as I'm concerned when you take into account traffic that an e-bike rider can be in, not even on the highways that is, where occasionally the flow can be at 35-40 MPH, I don't see any valid enough reason not to allow that. It's safer for the riders, and the automobile drivers aren't being as tempted to make unsafe passes on a single lane with opposing traffic for him. Here the official limit on a Class III e-bike is 28MPH was translates to power assist up to 31-32MPH. Admittedly it's not that often to be in that traffic flow, but it does happen. I hate being squeezed in that situation.
I'm a disabled man, when i was in my teens and early 20s i was a competitive cyclist. Unfortunately after having sepsis i developed a autoimmune condition that attacks my nerves. I would love to get back on two wheels but i can barely walk. I would love to have a ebike that could be powered without pedaling... Also i think 20mph should be the speed limit, one, that's the speed of traffic in towns and such. Two, makes the bike a fair mode of transportation. And three most people could achieve that speed with little training
Sorry to hear about your condition, I have a friend who has a disability which prevents him from pedalling but he has now got an ebike that uses a throttle to propel him, he loves it , it's not very fast at around 18mph on the flat but perfectly adequate, perhaps u could do the same to get u out on a bike, I know it's technically against the law but in reality no one cares and won't bother u 👍
Hi, There is a company that makes electric tricycles, which you can specify as a full moped classification with Reg if you wish, which are fully DVLA registered and can ridden completely on throttle only.
Alternatively, if you want to ride entirely without pedalling on 2 wheeled electric vehicle, what you are actually describing is an electric moped and many, many of these exist already, so you just have to simply buy one to satisfy your need/requirement and your away.
Hope this helps as I am certain that you didn’t know what you are asking for actually exists already or you where simply searching for some way to side step existing moped/rMoped legislation.
Kindest Regards, Ben
VPN, City-Desk.
if u mix disk breaks and rim breaks together the stopping distance is faster
the pedal assist limit is almost impossible to police, since an ebike can be pedaled to higher speeds or going downhill. Using a classification system like in America makes sense.
we could maybe..
class 1 up to 15.5mph can use cycle lanes.
class 2 up to 20mph using roads hi vis clothing plus helmet
class 3 up to 30mph CBT training, insurance, hi vis, helmet
class4 above 40mph same requirement as motorbike MOT tax etc
bike classification
I dont think there should a pedal assist requirement, so the classification should include scooters which should have a minimum wheel size of say 8" for stability. A bike without pedals in class 1 and 2 would be safer since the rider would not be able to exceed the motor limit by pedaling.
I think the speed laws makes sense, mostly because of one factor - the users themselves. Ebikes have made it vastly more accessable to use your bike to commute, but that also brings more people into traffic using bikes. Using a bike at "high speed" in safe manners needs skill, and people who use normal bikes in those speeds usually has that skill since it's often their hobby. Giving "normal" people the opportunity to go fast on a bike, could definately highten the incident statistics by a lot, since people just aren't good enough or ready for that extra power.
A solution for it, could simply be to introduce a driver's licence for Ebikes with a higher speed assistance, with proper training and sharpened regulation for use of protective equipment (like better helmets) since they then use sometging more similar to mopeds in terms of performance. But that requirement, I guess would upset people as well.
We need ebikes to go 20mph top speed with a 500w 48v motors to get up the hills. 250w is never enough to get up hills efficiently and especially if you are an old or disabled rider. The UK government are a joke for limiting ebikes to 250w
I think we should have classifications of Ebikes similar to how the US does but I would class them a bit differently. Any person can ride a 250W eith 15.5mph limit and then a CBT as well as allowing a provisional moped (or 125cc depending on age) entitlement, should allow a FULL ebike licence The full ebike licence should allow riding of higher power e-bikes up to 30mph. Call them class 1 & class 2 but we keep the caveat of no throttles (or at least small throttle assist for like 5mph if people need a boost starting on a hill) and pedal assist only for the rest of the range of power - throttle restriction helps unblur the line of moped & ebike. If we change legislation to have ebikes have a physical feature to show the class they are to help with policing them, help ensure bikes have components for their rated speed etc. To make it work though we'd need to keep insurance companies etc away and still keep them treated like bicycles or else no one would ride them and it would blur whats a bicycle and whats a moped again
The eBay should be doing about 25 to 20 miles an hour to catch up with the traffic in that and the float on the on the road track where the password do cycle paths from David Irving from Manchester
I spend 2 years with moped limited to 28MPH (45kph) and every driver wanna overtake me like no tommorow.
Now with 125cc bike i riding 33-35 MPH because if I stick to limit - 30 - still some drivers tailgating and overtaking. Till next traffic light when I go ahead ;)
Mentality of drivers are need to be change.
Should be USA-style law - Class 1, 2 and 3 ebikes with minor changes:
1 for everyone (like now)
2 for 18+ or 21+
3 for any driving licence holder
I’d say 15.5mph is fine for e-bikes. Averaging that on a normal bike isn’t that easy, so it’s faster than most can ride a normal bike. Totally agree that some sort of licensing would be good for faster/more powerful bikes, but the bikes themselves have to be up to it, especially the brakes. But then you come to the road worthiness of the bikes, they may be fine when new but who’s going to check they are ok a couple of years down the line. Only needs someone wiping out a kid on a crossing at 30mph because their brakes don’t work, and we’ll have to (quite rightly) have mot’s for the bikes. There’s a lot more involved by going a few miles an hour faster.
Although it's law for a limit on e-bikes but that law is EU ONLY law, the police particularly in the UK are powerless to enforce it. Unless the UK parliament brings out something to give police more powers to clamp down on anyone exceeding the 15.5mph which is supposed to be the legal limit. There is little if anything the police in the UK can do about it. The only time the police can do anything about anyone riding on any e-bike exceeding the 15.5mph is in an accident. I'm seeing gig economy couriers riding on e-bikes exceeding speeds of 40+mph. It['s been happening for more than 2 years so basically, if the couriers delivering for the likes of Uber Eats, Deliveroo, Just Eat, Stuart ect are getting away with exceeding the legal limit, some of which are excessively exceeding that limit set out by the EU, what's stopping anyone else?
The police can enforce e-bike laws I think it is Yorkshire where the police have a roadside power testing dyno.
Is a licence required for electric tricycle that can go 3.7mph ?. Also, is a licence required for electric tricycle that can go 15.5mph ?. I'm getting contradicting information from gov.uk website and police! Does anyone know the law on this !?
Tricycles follow the same laws as bikes. Both of those speeds don't need a licence but if there's a throttle that takes it over 3.7 mph or the trike has more continuous power than 250w then it's technically not allowed on the roads
@@e-VRC Cheers. One more thing... I want to be legal on the road and want a electric cargo tricycle... Can you recommend any that I should buy ? (the price is not a problem for me).
We have these dumb laws in Australia as well. Also if we ride on foot paths we are not allowed to go faster than 10 kph so it is safer for pedestrians on the footpath.
Peterborough has a good cycleway system shared with pedestrians, pedestrians with dogs, children and cyclists. Perhaps they should be split into different types and make them require third party insurance etc like a moped? I'd just like to see prevention of deaths and injury what ever rules are made. Good video though.
Should be 20mph, to match built-up area / residential streets; and should have disc brakes on adult sized bikes to ensure stopping performance.
Yeah, I agree. A CBT for E-bikes and insurance. If you hit someone at 30mph it's going to injure someone.
25mph seems reasonable.
I do that on my Eskateboard and on my bikes (downhill) easily.
Primary danger on a bike/ebike is being hit by a car, not you crashing or falling off at speed. So the cars speed is much more important than yours, on a bike.
He needs to raise his seat as he is not getting full extension on his legs when he cycles
I think you're right. 15.5 is fast enough for ebikes which are treated as bikes. It's a good level ground cruising speed for an unassisted bike, which means the motor is only used when climbing and accelerating from a start. With 15.5 mph restrictions ebikes can continue to use cycle lanes and we can keep the freedom to convert unassisted cycles, not having a licence etc none of which would really be safe with assist to higher speeds.
Higher speed with licensing, helmets, construction regulations etc should be a valuable part of the transport mix and the regulatory framework for this already exists, it's a moped. All that's needed is for manufacturers to build them and people to buy them. Worth noting that take up of electric mopeds and motorcycles is almost non-existent compared to ebikes. They are too expensive and inconvenient because of the requirements to make them safe at higher speeds.
Id say most of the problem is the crank sensor been under responsive
If this was better we might not need a throttle so much.
I think that 15.5 mph is enough for an e-bike. Above this speed, you are really getting into Moped territory, which means motor bike laws coming into play. As for power, I don't see why a more powerful motor can't be used it will help people in hilly areas, I don't have an e-bike and would love to know how much power is needed to allow me to ride up the steep hills in my area that prevent me from biking. As for throttle, I don't see a problem with having the bike fully powered by throttle as an option, but again for me this is getting closer to Moped behaviour.
I don't know where you guys live, but it must suck to be you. I live in Arizona and for the most part If it's electric, nobody cares how fast you go I have a modified suron with pedals It will go around 65 miles an hour I do not drive it at 65 miles an hour all the time, but it's possible to go that fast I pretty much keep it at the posted speed limit And nobody ever gives me a hard time I've talked to a couple of policemen and a couple of sheriffs, and they said if it's electric, we don't care "Doesn't suck to be me" By the way no registration no plate
I think the 25 km/h (15.5 mph) cutoff is fairly reasonable.
I think that a class of e-bikes where you need a drivers license, but not need a vehicle registration could be a way to go:
My suggestion:
Max power: 2 kW up to 25 km/h (15.5 mph)
linear power reduction to 0 kW at 30 km/h (18.6 mph)
pedal assist and/or throttle
Same license requirement as for L1e vehicles.
Where I live, it's quite hilly. While 25 km/h is easy on flat, that's not the case uphill, even with pedal assist.
That seems pretty fair 👍
I think you'd struggle going uphill, or possibly even on the flat, on a traditional bike. Stick with the electric motor and maybe get two extra wheels and some doors 🤔
An Ebike that can propel a rider unassisted over 15.5 is a Moped , to make it legal they would have to be registered with number plates etc, and be under the same laws as Motorcyclists currently are.
I think 15.5 is a bit too slow as well, I think the restriction should be 20mph and a 350 watt motor to give that extra bit of power to heavier riders for example.
But if they did that then they would be crossing the territory of 50cc scooters and motorcycles as most 50cc size bikes are restricted to 30mph and I think their riders would be pretty miffed having to pay for a licence, insurance, MOT and tax etc when Ebike riders can do the same for free, that would be a little unfair.
I live in the US and I feel like 28 mph is too slow I ride a moped style e-bike and that one I feel much safer because I go around 30-33 mph and keep up with traffic
I have been a cyclist and a motorist for years and going along a flat road at 15mph on a pedal bike is a good speed during my hay day 20mph on a flat for a long distance and 50mph downhill on a standard racing bike was tops and up hills down to 5 to 10 mph going downhill and I got fit!!!!!! E-Bikes are assisted, if you want faster then get an electric motorbike and pass a motorbike test and pass all of the theory tests to keep yourselves and everyone else safe. Food delivery drivers are the worst with upgraded bikes (probably illegal upgrades (definitely) travel at very high speeds, throttlers, and no pedalling) travelling the wrong way down roads and riding in busy city centres (Birmingham) etc.
I'm new to e-bikes, still in the research stage. 15.5 mph seems very slow. However I wouldn't want to fall off at too high a speed - say over 30 mph. So I would say at least 20mph and maybe 25 at the highest.
It would be better if you had your saddle at correct height
The only view I follow is this (as an american): 6-10 mph mph around pedestrians on sidewalks, 10-16 mph on sidewalks with no pedestrians and trails, 16 - 25 mph in bike lanes, 25+ mph in the streets riding with traffic. Never had an issue with cops doing this..
That makes a lot of sense
I would be happy with 20mph, i can do that on a bicycle but its some more power thats needed, Some places like where i live are very hilly & its a stuggle to move at a sensible speed because of that.