What's The Best eBike Motor? | Industry Expert Reveals All
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ค. 2024
- We're joined by Peter Collard, an e-bike Motor repair specialist who's been at the forefront of motor repair in the UK for a good few years, to pick his mind about all things EMTB. From the troublesome motors and reliability issues of the past to the direction of the future and if smaller and lighter is really what we need! Let's dive into it and have a deep discussion about reliability and repair in E Bike Tech!
Thanks to the eBike Motor Centre (Performance Line Bearings) in the New Forest for hosting us for this video and our previous instalment on motor repair from their facility which you can watch here: embn.me/MotorRepairs
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
00:00 - Intro
01:03 - What Is The Best E-Mountain Bike Motor That Has Been Made So Far?
03:11 - Is Power & Torque Everything In A Motor?
04:29 - How Resilient Are Motor Gearbox Units?
05:26 - What Are The Features Of A Great Motor?
07:28 - Do Certain Motors Behave Differently?
10:39 - Have The Biggest Leaps In E Bike Motor Tech Been Taken?
13:29 - Is Smaller And Lighter Better For EMTB Motor Performance?
15:00 - How To Stop Water Ingress In An EMTB Motor
17:19 - What Is The Best E-Bike Motor?
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Thanks to everyone for tuning in so far. I just want to reassure you guys that Pete in fact DOES answer the question. Please watch to the end. It might not be the answer you were expecting.
I had a feeling it was the Bosch 2 was the best! XD
I got 4400 miles out of my Brose motor and then sent it to EBike motor repair before it did anything wrong. The motor was flawless. And I had it rebuilt with upgraded sprag bearings and it is sealed to a higher degree than factory original. 👍
The best ebike motor service center on the planet.
No BS, they know their business.
Outstanding interview!!
So basically they were saying don't buy a Shimano motor since they are non repairable ( seemed like they were being very careful not to name names). My EP8 crapped out at 8000km and just outside of warranty, Shimano still looked after me and gave me a new motor which I appreciated and have now done 2000km on, but I don't have much faith in the longevity of the ep8 motor. My next bike will be a Bosch. I replaced all the bearings on my frame at 8000km and they were all getting worn. Having the ability to change bearings on your motor is a must.
The average lifespan of electric bicycles today is between four and six years.
8000 km is OK. I have 1600 km my first year.
They do have a full EP8 and 8000 bearing kits on their website so it seems that you could rebuild it out of warranty for $120. I have only had my first speed sensor go bad now at 1000 miles, bearings feel great still. 2 friends have had their bearings go bad within warranty and Shimano USA replaced their parts quickly with no impediments.
I like what he said "It should be repairable" A great concept and something manufacturers have moved away from recently. I don't just mean ebike motors but everything! They need to make everything repairable for our sake, the environments sake and for the repair industry sake.
preach it! Every company, I dont care if they make laptops or bikes, or cars, or farming equipment, they've all bending over backwards to try to make it so ONLY THEY can do your repairs (for top dollar), and then once they make key parts "end of life" you're basically forced into buying a new one. We're creating mountains of waste. The most eco friendly thing you can do is maintain the things you already have.
Watched the entire video and you didn’t answer the title question. Wouldn’t even say who had a repairable motor. We all know about the water issues. Being way too careful not to upset any manufacturer. Just tell the truth.
Always the same when I see his face on the screen. Lots of words but no real information.
In defense of Jonesy, they do at the beginning, A gen 2/3 Bosch is the toughest. @@Chriswales Remember EMBN is a paid for video channel where brands pay to be featured. It's not an independent channel in that sense. They are also somehow a preferred partner with youtube.
They did answer straight up in the first minute; Bosch Gen 2. I appreciated the dialog on motor characteristics, reliability, that all but Shimano is repairable, hence the motor repair shop.
Should be a politician.
This is why I stopped watching some time ago
So rain, puddles, mud and moisture are the main culprits for killing eMTB motors.. talk about not fit for purpose here in the UK (for 8 months of the year 😂) Can you imagine off road motorcycles having engines that let water into the gearbox.. No, neither can I, because they wouldn't be fit for use and nobody would buy them. Ebike motor manufacturers need to sort it out.. never mind lighter motors.. build one that can last a few Welsh winters.. and summers 😂
It's the same with the knocking/rattling noises, imagine a motorcycle or car company is releasing a motor, that rattles half of the time and not just a few bad examples, but all of them by default, because they "don't know how to fix it" and release it anyway on the market. Would be a tough battle to sell these products to the customers, on the emtb market the people seem to be way less critical and accept major flaws, even if the prices are insanely high for what you get im comparison to a car or a motorcycle... as long as the brands will get along with this quite well, there will not be major improvements, unfortunately.
@@e_mtb Yamaha motors are silent
If you haven't already found them the bbshd is pretty well tested in the UK with very few issues. At least from my researching perspective, i've seen plenty of them being used, and abused in the mountains with very little if any problems. As long as it's fitted to the bike properly. Depending on the bike that probably still includes the lekki chain ring, a chain guide, some good derailleurs with wide range cassettes and good hydraulic brakes. etc.
My Aventon Ramblas is ip67 rated thru and thru what you think of that ya bobbin?
Right at the end Brose is the winner for upgradability and spares and considering it was always quiet and powerful , ill take it as a winner. New updated belts and seals fix the old issues. Those motors were always great when running but also had owners running if they failed, now there is a long term fix a LEVO or Kanevo is looking pretty good esp with the Belevo app and Raptor chip
A great insite into Ebike motor reliability issues by Peter , lets hope the manufacturers are watching this. Its time that all manufactures took sustainability & reliability issues seriously & made spares available for there motors. Its not rocket science keep the water out as water & electricity do no mix, a £3 seal can save a £700 motor .
I stick with bafang simply because you can buy parts and do repairs yourself. All the main brands seem to lack any aftermarket part support when parts need to be replaced.
my last 2 bikes have had Bafang BBS02 built by myself, just splashed on a Cube with Bosch smart system, torque sensing is good but brick wall at 15mph in traffic is a real pain and starting to regret my purchase
I don't know what some people are whinging about, I found the video very informative.
Great video moters are getting better but they need to make the wiring and switches more waterproof and not so flimsy why is it a jet ski can go under water but you can't hose your E bike down?
Because in a greedy rush for market share, all of the manufacturers just put on any motor they could produce or find, rather than engineering something from the ground up that would ensure longevity. In my eyes any bike motor made after this point should be fully waterproof. Mine is
@sd5458 if I may ask, what motor do you use?
Bosch
The sad part is the waste that will pile up as these ebikes age. The bikes are so customized to the specific system so in 10 years the bike will be useless since you can't get a motor that fits in that bike. Most analog bikes can be updated/upgraded with modern parts.
Don’t all the bozos change the bolt pattern and case shape every year?
Yeah but analog bikes have still aged in a different way , if I get on a mtb from the 2010 - 2014 era , the geometry feels all wrong
@@camwells9726 But it's still going to ride exactly like it did 10+ years ago.
@@netposerx yep get that , but I guess my point is people want better now and aren’t interested in those old bikes , so in a different way they are still obsolete anyway .
@@camwells9726 I get that but a bike from 1972 will work regardless of if people want it or it has old geometry. An ebike just won't work as it's mostly a piece of tech. Like a Blackberry from 2003. There's no network to support it and you can't just go buy a new battery.
Bosch gen 3 performance line cx just over 12,000km no problemsat all, still as smooth and quiet as the day I got it. It never gets pressure washed. I move the cranks one knotch on the spline every 6 months to even out partial wear on the crank bearings and clean and replace marine grease on the bearing seal cover every 3 months.
What did Brose know in 2018 with the Aluminium 1.3 super quiet,, smooth powerful feel that they still don't know now. Simply add x ring crank shaft seals and some positive internal air flow from a mini computer fan to dry it out. But big forces from pedal strikes are always going to cause bearing damage. E=Mtb²
Proper seals make a world of difference. I don't think drying it out would work, as the water bonds with the oil and dirt inside. What would help is having a mandated maintence cycle with good accessibility. Everything wears down and all moving parts need service
@@Megabear90 The idea is to have the mini fan constantly running slightly pressurising the inside when the motor is on and also when you wash it so no moisture will be sucked in from cooling of the casing or changes in altitude. Would be easy to try, plus a few moisture attracting crystal bags." Crystals " now does that sound a bit "heeby geeby"
I am assuming you are only comparing OEM motors. Personally I absolutely love my CYC Motor Gen 3 X1 Stealth on my DIY ebike. The best thing about DIY is the ability to mix and match frames. Currently on my third build based on a beautiful Soma Riff frame with SRAM Code RSC brakes, DT Swiss hybrid hubs, and moped rated 2.1" 27.5" Schwalbe tires. With over 20K kilometers and zero problems I'll stay on this track. Bike comes in under 55lbs and has the best pedal assist. With 1500 watts and 150 nm of torque I can climb anything. Race mode in the country and street mode in the city covers all my power and speed limit needs wherever I am. And easy to change my street mode settings when I travel across the border from 500watt Canada to 750watts in the US. Gotta say it is way safer on an eBike when you can travel closer to the speed of vehicles. I've saved financially eliminating vehicle insurances and maintenance on my van. The savings are more than my cost of my builds.
This channel never touches or mentions DIY e-bikes with motors like CYC, Bafang or Tongsheng. This channel is about legal, factory e-bikes.
hands down Bafang M620, buy parts anywhere, use a laptop charger if needed, 160Nm of power, unrestricted mode code on manuals first page, has a throttle with top speed 75Km/hr.
What bike have you got it on?
@@joshamery7537 Dengfu E10 carbon frame, any Dengfu carbon frames are around 700 USD,
Honda 750xl has 94hp so if you’re talking 140nm perhaps step it up a notch to a honda
@@emveeess839 i think your HP and torque assessment for a motorcycle may differ greatly from the crank torque applied at 170mm for an ebike. do some old school physics and see what the torque at the crank shaft for a 70kg person using gravity,
@@emveeess839 you trying to convert HP to torque?? not KW
Since watching these videos I’m not using the pressure washer at all on my bike except for tires. I now have a hand pump washer to apply water and use brushes and clothes . Letting the mud dry and brushing off the worst also works . Hoping to save the motor and keep frame bearings in good order . Nice to know this company exists if the worst happens . I can’t help the occasional pedal strike !
This series is fantastic and insightful. The overhaul cost is surprisingly low and his experience as to why they fail and the most reliable is amazing. Doing maintenance and repairs on my cars I have seen the new tech advancements but dropping of quality/durability there as well
Thanks 1972. We've got more coming
Got another idea for you (if you haven’t already)…assume 3k, 4k, what bike do you buy (used or new) and what spec to get. If new would love to understand used options as well - Matt
Great informative video provided by experts! 😊
I agree, Bosch CX gen 2....mine had it's first service at nearly 15,000 miles and the cost of the service is less than £300 (less than some people have to pay for a cassette on an Amish bike) - that's great value I think and provided you keep an eye on chain/cassette/chainring wear, the bike is bombproof. And that's all year use in the UK, rain, snow, water etc.
I loved this honest discussion, and I want to hear more pushback on the ego stroking lightweight emtb push from manufacturers, some of us can except people recognising we are riding an electrically assisted bike! 😉
Mechanical whir is very soothing. I once owned a 1982 Datsun ZX that when in 5th gear at 70 mph and above had a very pleasing mechanical whir I liked very much. I am waiting for my first eMTB to be delivered which will be end of April, and hope it has a mechanical whir.
Affordable preventive maintenance is part of reliability.
Suspension preventive maintenace is too expensive, that's why I ride until failure mode. Ecomonically the better solution. P.s I never had a suspension fail on me because I ride Fox and avoid Specialized brains.
Regarding motors ... haven't been able to kill one yet. Mostly riding the old gen 2 from bosch. The beast just won't die on me.
Thanks for the video…all this comes down to if you can your bike repaired and updated in the area that you travel.
You should open all the top motors, study the innards, compare bearings and seals, … give us a true and analytical review
exactly, I wannna see how chunk the gears are and which has the best seals...
We have did you not see this one? th-cam.com/video/6wnfTOEcK70/w-d-xo.html
pure gaslighting viewers? why can't this channel take criticism ? every answer seems to be irrelevant .@@embn
you link a video that doesnt show us inside all the motors... it doesnt compare them, as always your camera people are more bothered about trying to show off silly montages than show off the actual motors or bikes..... like with the videos where you compared how ebikes sound then someone put an audio music track over the video...... GENIUS!!!!
@@anonymousone6075 I was simply trying to be helpful. Pete does talk bearings and seals. So just to be clear you want to see images inside all motors?
Sorry for moaning btw You seem like a really nice fun guy and you come across really well as a presenter :)
Anna is great too ! @@stevejones7956
My Moustache is a 2015, had a new Gen 2 motor after being drowned. Plenty of torque, geared down from standard and still runs well. I reckon a Pete service will see the motor outlast me!
Excellent video and great info. As an aside, my eight year old DIY BBS02 has functioned great (in dry socai) with neither maintenance nor problems and AFAIK can be rebuilt completely if/when necessary.
I love my Brose.....but I really like the Bosch as well.
Excellent work! Keep us going!!
Thanks Pedro, appreciate it
IMO, the problem with current EMTBs is the non standardization... from batteries, mounts, power adapters, connectors, batteries, etc. For example, my '22 Rise has a different charging port from a '23 Rise. They are incompatible and my '22 Rise is close to obsolete. How long can Orbea or the port manufacturer continue to make parts for an old model (only after a couple years)?
It's not an excuse, but phones, cars, laptops, even mountain bikes you're looking at various standards, proprietary tools and different chargers! E-MTB's are fitting in that respect rather than standing out. But you're right, in an ideal world 1 cable for a hundred bikes would be great.
@@embn It's not an excuse. But I'm not paying $1200.00 for a mobile phone.
@@embn A current Android phone will use a USB-C connector, no matter the manufacturer. In my example, it is the same bike manufacturer - Orbea, same motor manufacturer - shimano, and the same model - Rise. It’s like having a different nozzle at the gas pump between a Porsche GT4 and a GT4 RS.
Ha! Never expected that the Gen 2 CX would be top.... My KTM has this- bought Dec 2018 and Feb 2021 Pete rebuilt it after 2500km...it's just come back from rebuild number 2 at just approaching 6000km total.... NDS bearing always goes because there's no way of properly sealing the crank/crankcase unlike the DS(Unfortunately it's Achilles heel), and it's never seen a power washer.... (And ALL my time on the KTM is in the Cairngorm Mountains- I road bike 10,000km a year too).... I think as he said in the previous video pedal strikes do a lot of damage too. But I'm happy with it still, and a rebuild cost is well worth it, both batteries are original and due to meticulous storage and use are both giving the same range as when new.... and the EX1 drivetrain is still good (replaced the cheap 11/13/15 cogs at 5000km) as I change out the 16T sprocket and chain when it hits 0.5%.... Heavy and maybe over-engineered the motor may be, but one day this will become a "commuter/shopper" bike to get to the local shops in Aviemore and at that point I'll put on full huge mudguards to keep all water off the motor and it's off road days will be over so the motor should last longer between rebuilds!!
After years working as an e bike technician I can answer the question! Bosch is the best motor, followed by the Dyname, Yamaha, Shimano and Brose(the Brose has a long history of component failure in spite of it being a very popular motor because of its ability). As far as adjustments go I am of the opinion that if you can alter the demands of the motor to accommodate for the desired range necessary to complete a journey, or a type of ride, then all the better and I have found the Bosch battery and motor combination the best in this regard.
Really? And yet you can't even spell Bafang?
@@stevo184 Yeah really! And that’s your response to pick up on a typo?
I would agree with you, your motor layout is spot on! However, my point at the end was more based on what is the best motor to own. Having the best made motor on the market can be very frustrating for people when it eventually fails or wears out, and has to be thrown in the bin because it's not repairable. As I say at the end, the brose may have it's issues but these can be elevated with an upgrade and if anything at all fails or wears, it can be simply replaced or fixed.
Hi Jeremy, and thanks for insight...so just to be clear, you believe Bosch to be best because of it's adjustability?
@@embn Just my opinion, of course, Bosch tops the list with reliability, power delivery and efficiency. I have observed great range from the battery in Bosch equipped bikes. Emtb mode is a bonus as well. I don’t own one but I’m convincing myself I probably should😁
Fascinating, thanks!
Most interesting video, i have just bought a Haibike CF12 2022 with a Yamaha px-x2 so far so good like the way it works. Hope it is one of those repairable in the future
Great motor...and repirable!
The last part was the best. Repairable. My wife's Gazelle motor lasted 8,000 commuter K's before it imploded. The dealer stated that was a good run??? $800 dollar replacement plus labour really hurt. Our next bikes started with a Bosch drive train. 10,000 K's later they are still like new.
For me I'd go for a bit more reliability than performance! But then I'm now 67yrs! I've got a Bocsh cx on my Trek Rail7. It's brilliant.
Noise, yeah i quite like the reassuring wering, but I only hear it at the low cadence, anything more I don't notice it.
Brose Motor: There is nothing in it we cant Fix! WoW !!!! ❤
Man I freakin LOVE my rocky with the Dyname 4.0 motor, never had an issue, I do occasionally play with the power % settings depending on where I'm riding.
I have a 2019 A70 and a 2023 C90. These bikes get very little play Ebike clips like these. I think RM doesn't really pay attention and likely doesn't let content providers demo their bikes much. The bikes are great but try and contact them and wait and wait and wait.
I just ordered a 2024 instinct a70, can't wait 😊
Great insight from Pete
BBS02, parts available, can get the battery recelled, fits a standard frame and settings programmable.
If repairability is the name of the game. I'd like to see a video lining up most repairable to least repairable even non repairable. If it exists I'll gladly watch it. Really the motor I'm mostly interested in is the Yamaha, I own one. ;)
A video showing older super reliable ebikes and emtbs alongside new possibly less reliable ebikes would be great! So us noobs know what to look for when buying. Battery tech comparison would be cool too. I'm sure there has been heaps of changes in that. Would be cool to know what to look for when buying used ebikes.
An EBike classic series giving history would be sooo cool and you guys have all the knowledge to do it!
I am happy with my gen 2 Turbo Levo. Nearly 3K km. Motor and battery are healthy. I have recently redone nearly everything. The only worn out part wasn’t rear rim, otherwise I shortened cranks, and got a swept 12 degree sQLab handlebar, SQLab wider pedals, better SQLab seat. And SRAM GX 10-52 12 speed with GX wireless shifting. I feel this bike will last for years. If the frame goes, I will buy a frame set and swap in my new parts. I have less fear of obsolescence than a standard bike. And with so many bikes out there, I have no fear of replacing or repairing the motor if needed. Very satisfied.
Fascinating video! I just wish, barring law suits, that you could provide more detail on each of the motor brands. I have a Shimano and waiting for the day it gives up the ghost.
Had the yam pw-x2 and now on the X3, great motor.
Speaking about retrofit, I agree it does not make sense since motors of different generations change in size and feature. But upgrade should be possible. Let's take the Bosch Smart System and the previous gen4. They are basically the same motors, same size and specs but gen4 is not upgradable to Smart System. This will force users, if they want newer feature, to buy new e_bike. While it is possible to upgrade all other component to newer and better products prolonging bike life. On the other end I agree with comments in the video when is stated that most of the time users are not changing motors mapping every ride but possibly a couple of time in motor lifetime. Personally, using Bosch CX motor I am fully satisfied with Tour+ and emtb modes and do not really need the possibility of changing motor behaviour.
Always nice programs and thank you for at least recommending the Brose to be the most reparable motor on the market.
Owning an unrestricted Greyp eMTB, unfortunately brand out of business now but the well unknown MPF motor still working like day#1 after 7000km, never been serviced. I never wash my bike, only brush dry mud!
What about durability thoughts on (un)restricted motors?
De-restricting does not affect durability. You are not putting any more power through the motor, and the motor is designed for higher speeds, it's just restricted for the European laws. Not that I am condoning this of course :)
Great content guys👍
Thanks Jimmy, appreciate it
It's reassuring to hear that things aren't as bad as you might fear from reading online forums. However it might be instructive to hear what can be done at home to improve the weather resistance of motors. Both in and out of warranty (vitus e mythique owner).
"Best ebike Motor?" - probably the most asked question of TH-camrs, but bizarrely irrelevant when good enough is good enough and the whole package is more important. I bet our expert hasn't much expertise on Pinion's MGU either, since it's just too new. That all being said, I like Bosch's climbing help a lot which will register small pedal movements back and forth as complete turns and help to overcome technical climbs in a breeze 👍
i bought a aibike with yamaha motor after seeing an interview with an ebike shop owner who said he hardly ever gets returns with ebike that have yamaha motors.
he stocked all sorts of ebike with loads of different motor manufacturers.
my 2014 bosch haibike amt pro is still going and fast as it ever was with a cx motor in it and dongle 39.6mph on the flat no road bike can pass me in 11 years
I noticed you talked about moisture why cant there be a vent tube from the top of the motor up in the frame to prevent or minimize moisture issues around the control board.
Some motors have small one way breather patches to vent the motor. It does work and the motor will dry over a long period of time, but if water has got as far as the internals of the motor, it has already been through the bearings to get there, and this means the damage is already done, 4 to 6 months later, the bearing will fail.
I have followed Pete since he was doing repair videos in his shed. He is brilliant.
Has he managed to find away of repairing Shimano motors?
I believe the torque sensors were problematic.
We used to repair many Shimano motors, but as we became more professional, we needed at least the basic software from Shimano. But, they had no interest at that time in talking to us. Every other manufacture saw the benefit in what we could do for them and supported us. Shimano didn't want to know, so sadly we had to stop supporting them and their customers. If they ever decide to speak with us, I would be happy to listen. If everyone with a Shimano got onto Shimano and demanded they allow for sustainability with their motors and to allow and support people like us to fix your after warranty motors, I am sure Shimano and the bike manufacturers who use their motors would see a lot more sales.
The shift to solid state batteries is going to make a big change in emtb bikes.
not for a very long time it wont
I've a bosch gen4. It's been submerged up to the crossbar, 1500 miles, 70% in muddy canal towpaths and bridleways and it's been rocks solid.
Can't fault the performance of the bosch combo of battery and motor.
Will be seeing you soon 😄
@@Ebikemotorcentre 😂😂😂😂
I've got another years warranty, but at least i know where to come now 👍
Ok but what motors are repairable! Lol be awesome to get a prevention series going! Eg the plastic bag tip is awesome!
So Steve
the answer is what is the best motor ?
cx gen 2... so we need a time machine are its a pointless video
Pete answers that, did you miss it? Or do you mean in terns of performance, features, speed, size, weight, torque?
Overall which in your opinion is the best
The spray on the back of the car is a good point - I killed a Bosch CX doing that. I tried using a plastic bag but it just gets destroyed. Must be a marked for a transit cover with neoprene and velcro or something
See my comment above. I've used cling wrap whilst transporting to cover areas of potential water ingress and around levers and calipers to keep crap out. I forgot to mention you need some gaffa tape as added security against wind speed removing the cling wrap. Been there. Done that.
@@user-po7bk6ge1y yeah I've tried cling film too but it disintegrated. Maybe duck tape or gaffa tape will help, I'll try that 👍🏻
A nd the only engine that you can't repair is... SHIMANO!! 🎉
but not a word o that
I dont think Pete works with Shimano motors, you had problems?
Had no concerns about buying a Giant Trance with a Yamaha motor given they're one of the better motorbike brands. Let's hope the ebike motors are just as good. I'm always fiddling with my power settings for range, not sure how much of a difference it makes. Gives piece of mind when you've got a long haul with a big climb at the end.
Quality, really cool.
Likely the best HUB e-bike motor is the GRIN Technologies V3 in various widths and power outputs. This Canadian company has researched the best components and designs. My 2 wheel drive E-Mountain bike (E-Cells Super Monarch Crown) will be upgraded with the Fat Bike hub when its BAFANG motors ear out.
use a motor nappy when on car rack
I think owner serviceable motor will be the future, I really hope to get my hands on a Pollini motor in the future. 😊😊
Bafangs are user serviceable. Aftermarket parts, can get parts from aftermarket vendors and plenty of videos and forums going over repairs and general maintenance.
I still don't trust the Bafang setup, it would be great to see more info about their motors technology.
@@jcheco59 All widely available online, plenty of info, teardowns and mods/ reviews. They make low power 250w middrives right up to 1500w 160nm middrives.
Having just ordered my first emtb [yay for Halfords easter sales] , actually my first bike of any kind in over 40 years, I found this interesting. I think I get it - it's the same with just about any tech in that there is no such things as "the best". What there is is the best for you and your bike in a given situation, would that be accurate?
Spot on!
Just up the road from me and didnt even know they existed...👍 no mention of Bafang anywhere on their website.
most bikeshops won't touch bafang and other chinese ebikes with a barge pole
What to do to optimize motor endurance, other than just keeping it clean and using it correctly? Motors are service free but so are DSG car gear boxes and there are things you better do if wanted that gear box last as long as possible, changing oils, seals and oil filters. What to do with ebike motors? Open up, clean old grease and putting new grease in?
That's about it. Although with clutch bearings, plastic gears and bushes, aluminium gears etc. The choice of grease is extremely specific and normal greases will not do your motor a lot of good!
Great interview, cheers chaps
Thanks for watching :)
Shimano EP8 overhaul in the US? 12k miles on mine. It whines like a pig being shocked by electric fencing in both ECO and Trail modes. No bike shop in the Colorado area will touch it…any help?
does adding a speed de-restrictor to a motor dramatically affect the wear on cogs too?
No. You are not putting any more power through the motor, and the motor is designed for higher speeds, it's just restricted for the European laws. Not that I am condoning this of course :)
no Bosch CX is good for like 28mph or something like that
@@Ebikemotorcentre thanks.
how about if increasing sprocket/chainring size, specifically talking about bosch cx performance gen 2, from factory small cog (14-16T) to larger (18T+)- is there extra non-recommended strain on the motor when changing these?
or even comparing gen 2 with gen 3 (i assume the major diff with gen 3 was to allow the use of standard chainrings), or can standard chainring sizes (28+) be fitted on gen 2?
i’m just overall really curious what options i have to improve/extend the lifespan of my gen 2, other than replacing the whole motor with a same gen.
are the different bosch generations somewhat interchangeable? can a gen 3 at least be directly dropped into a gen 2 frame (to possibly solve any limitations gen 2s have using standard chainrings)
would be great if down the track bosch made available some retrofit kit to upgrade my gen 2 to some latest gen
@@p2e Fit a 17 or 18 tooth front sprocket, it makes an amazing difference, stops mud being packed down the back of the sprocket by the chain because the sprocket is deeper, also helps you use more of the rear cassette allowing this part to last longer. And no more spinning out! We have a test bike that will accept Gen 2, 3 and by using an adaptor plate Gen 4 motors. As long as you don't get the latest "smart" system motors they will all work on the same battery and controller. But aligning the crank is not easy and to be honest, you would be a lot better off buying a bike already manufactured for the correct motor and a Gen 3 is basically a pure road bike motor.
@@p2e SRAM make an X-Sync (narrow/wide)up to 18T, I run 16T and have a few 14T in my spares but never used them. Think you can get 20T max (not X-Sync though). One day my EMTB will become a more converted road/gravel hybrid and I'll be going 18 or 20T front and probably drop to 11-36 or 42 cassette. You don't need to upgrade your Gen2 CX, just keep rebuilding it and I'm sure there's companies that could re-cell a battery if they stop selling them....
Thank u
TQ HPR!
just had a £1250 bill recently to replace yamaha motor & controller on Giant efathom, 3-4 years old so was out of warranty. Didnt see that one coming. Ebikes are costly to run but well worth it. Maybe need water cover for the bike motors as the guy in the video mentions, probably a good upgrade when/if you get your motor serviced
I went through 3 yamaha motors on my giant. It suffered from water egress issues from week 1. It spent half the time back in the bike shop. I sold it as broke a year ago and still haven't bought another ebike. Too many rides ruined, I can't trust them anymore 😒
It seems a big problem is water ingress. What is the best way to maintain the bike to minimise water ingress. Is the only way to protect the motor by just not cleaning it? What can we do to have a clean bike but not compromise the motor?
Great chat 👍
The comment about how Brose are so quiet, the Brose on my Kenevo expert is louder than any ebike I've ever heard by a very large margin, like 4x louder than any bike I've ever heard and it's been like that since I bought it.
It runs perfectly, never any issues, but it's soooooo loud.
We can fix that for you :)
Bosch Gen 2? That's strange because, I'm on my 5th Gen 2 DU. The most mileage I've got was 11,000 km
FAR less with the subsequent replacements
Would plastering silicone sealer around the seams help?
When we have investigated situations like yours, we have always found the motor has failed through water ingress and the customer is stunned! But it's not riding in the dry that causes water ingress, and sometimes it is things that the rider is not aware of... Example: Washing the bike on its side, car racks as mentioned in the video, direct hosing, lending your bike to a friend or relative, buying a bike second hand where the person before has cleaned it to death just before selling it. Hard washing around the crank area can kill a Gen 2 within 150 miles. There are also certain bikes that will kill a Gen 2 very quickly, Trek Powerfly will accumulate mud around the front sprocket due to the design of the motor cover, this mud gets compressed behind the front sprocket by the chain and forced into the main motor bearing. Anti chain suck devices and chain guides can do the same thing. I hope this answer helps you put a finger on possible cause of failure. Pete.
@@Ebikemotorcentre I do have a Powerfly. I never use anything stronger than a garden hose and I'm very careful about keeping crap out of the crank area. I would like to get a Mudstop Kit but, they aren't available and/or can't get one shipped to Canada. Cheers
Had a Specialized 1.1 SL motor fail after 5000 miles, £180 later and back like new from this company A1 👍
Cheaper than some derailleurs right!
My 2.2.Brose Specialized has just failed waiting for a replacement but as Specialized extended there warranty to 4 years they look after their customer's.
I am looking at a Specialized, when I see that I need to pay another~200 for seals and upgraded bearings, the 4 year warranty makes sense. Brose know the weakness in their motor and they must know it's cheaper to swap ot motors than change the design.
Evo, not sure what year your Specialized Turbo Levo is?, but Specialized stopped doing the 4 year warranty on the Brose motor. I bought a new Specialized Turbo Levo at the begging of 2019 and if I remember correctly it came with a 2 year warranty on the motor, but then many people were complaining that the Brose motor internal drive belt was breaking very quickly so Specialized upped the warranty to 4 years on certain model years for a bit of time . My drive belt broke at the 4 1/2 year mark and it was not covered under warranty so I decided to get a brand-new motor instead of getting old one fixed. I then talked to the bike mechanic at my local Specialized bike shop, and asked does this brand new motor come with a 4 year warranty and he said no only 2 years. He then said that Specialized stopped doing the 4 year warranty on the motor a while ago and that not only new replacement motors but also new Turbo Levos bikes only have a 2 year warranty on the Brose motor now.
@@2011buddylee Hi 2019 Specialized Kenovo Expert so far they have been great as I snapped a frame aswell and one set of wheels Roval as cracks at each spoke. Berkshire Cycles have been great. As I ride every day nearly and a x racer I am prity hard on the bike as I broke 5 coil Fox factory coil DHX2 shock bodies so Fox give me a new Fox factory X2 air shock and that has been great just serviced but they changed the internal seals for 2024 to a better sealing rubber and no problems since as getting aeration in the oil.
@@JohnnyMotel99 Brose are now fitting an even stronger belt and one of our seal designs as standard.
the most repairable motors are without a doubt bafang motors. spare parts (motor core, gears, controllers) are available to anyone.
the BSA BB mount motots have a long track of reliability. fully potted controller, big motor, bearings and gears. now with the new torque sensing versions of these we might see the ultimate motor. very difficult to find good frames for them though...
Special frames are useless though. Those motors don't add anything else aside a lot more weight from already heavy bbshd
coming back to frames: integrated batteries are poor design imo. they're designed around the relatively spoken poor quality cylindrical batteries, 21700 and 18650, which are pretty bad in every aspect when comparing to the latest pouch format semi solid state NMC811. They require external mounting due to their prismatic shape, though.
just to put it into perspective.
hardtail emtb with 140mm RS pike, bafang m435, 1400Wh semi solid state, 29x2.3 tubeless, pnw suspension dropper post weighs in at 25kg including full fenders and a kickstand.
at that weight you get a top end canyon xc hardtail emtb with 750Wh and 40% less power, and no suspension dropper, fenders and kickstand. probably pedals are not even included. obviously we're talking about aluminium frames
Top motor, seems you can get parts too right?!
@@embn yes, you can, as with all bafang motors
What does Pete think about lightweight motors are the repairable like the TQ I'd looked after how long will they run???
We have stripped down many of the new "lightweight" motors and they are mostly repairable. We do support the Mahle motor and as others grow in popularity we will be able to support more of these types of motors.
@@Ebikemotorcentre thanks that encouraging as I have a Bosch gen 4 but looking to buy a TQ driven bike as well 👍
Dude plz do more motor vids
I’m all about the TQ motor.
@huldru i'm all about the Sachs/BMZ motor .😎 it's a pity these motor almost never get tested . for a 250 watt motor , they are the top two most powerful motors out there but we never hear anything substantial about them .
Bosch and Shimano motors are always mentioned, what about TQ motors in terms of reliability?
didn't really speak about the Pinion gear and motor. thoughts?
Wondering how this Bosch Performance SX motor stacks up against the Shimano EP8 motor.
Well you both went all round the house's until right at the very end and Brose seemed to be what you think 🤔 is currently the best motor ?
My question to Steve, as a motorcycle trials man, is what current motor would you choose over any other? Just give us an honest answer....ie what the Yamaha YZ in the ebike world right now.
Cheers.
Tony
Yamaha drive unit, of course!
The real point of this video was to point out that the best motor in the world is no good if you can't repair it. Brose is currently the most repairable and upgradable motor, everything can be replaced if necessary, but once upgraded it's virtually waterproof and a lot stronger. This is why it is currently one of the best motors to own for longevity and sustainability.
@@Ebikemotorcentre after warranty, many motors can be repaired, maybe not by owner but surely by dealer/manufacturer. Is more sustainable a problem-free motor that you shouldn’t open or a motor you can repair but you have to do it often?
@@stuka78 I would agree, a motor you never needed to touch would be the best way to go. However, when a bike is used off road and crashed, suffers pedal strikes, deep water, sand, mud, grit, rocks etc. It is going to fail and then you need a motor that can be repairable. If you have to do this every year or two, I think this would be acceptable for most people.
Haha, hi there..i'm on Honda at minute! I think Pete answers the question pretty well dont you? Or did you want an answer based on speed or adjustability?
So WHICH motors are repairable, besides the one he mentions at the end?
Which motors can be repaired?
Nice vid, there is no ONE & ONLY best motor.
And ppl should never wash ebike motors using jet/power washer, pouring water directly onto motors.. Crankshaft is one of the holes where water can get inside motor.
Repairability?!! The Brose?! Cool…👍
Shimano EP801, best total system.
yamaha pw on haibike 2017 ,9000km no problem
Blowing past the Shimano and Bosch of my friends on my Rocky feels like winning to me.
Blowing past e-bikes on the descent with no assist seems like winning to me 😂
ebike motorcentre seems amazing! is the an EU equivilent? would love to use theur services but after brexit that would be a pain. Is there any EU alternatives that offer the same support?
Did You ever repair a Sachs RS /BMZ RS?? WHats Your opinion about this motor? Thanks
This is not a motor that we see much of in the UK. I have not been able to get my hands on the "BMZ" one yet. However, we have stripped a few earlier Sash motors and they seem repairable.
@@Ebikemotorcentre thank you sir, they are exactly the same.. Since bmz produced them anyway, the just renamed it...
I am happy with my trusty Bafang. For the price, its a good motor.
Brilliant informative video again EMBN, Thank you and keep up the great work, informing the us folks with open minds 😊
Thanks Dave, appreciate it
Bafang BBSHD: the tried and true tank of mid drive motors. Easily serviced by just about anyone with mechanical skill and parts are readily available. And 160 nm to start with.