Stetmann is pretty good actually. His zerglings are almost unkillable and every 2 dead zergling get recycled into another one. With mono-zerglings you can beat any ground army. If there's heavy air, just add some hydra
the strongest aspect of Stetmann is Super Gary, especially in p2, Best Friend. He demolishes bases even in mutations, has a 100 dps area of effect spell that hits ground and air, insane mobility with garyzone+speed boost, 90 damage attacks, and stetelite overcharges. These are goddamn strong, especially when the stetelites are set to heal. It gives gary 60 shields, every half a second. The healing itself, combined with masteries, is 22 hp per second, so combining all that, it is basically a 142 hp per second heal. It is entirely possible to solo mutations and brutal+4 difficulties with ease. Just an insane commander in my opinion.
I agree, I had more than one match where I get absolutely bodied (get my base harassed by flying units as Stukov, got anihilated as Abathur and must get the ball rolling again, etc) and I watch as my Kerrigan partner carries me to victory.
I'm the opposite, every time I get a Kerrigan I can't help but wonder if this one will do anything. Almost every Kerri I get plays mostly with her alone (no prestiege) and tries to mass mutalisks and fails because mutas cost way too much, and maps move way too fast for them apparently. I end up having to carry like 80% of Kerrigans on Hard, I don't know if I can one on Brutal but so far I only play Brutal with a premade. The few good ones mass Hydralisks and an some Ultralisks if they set up a fast econ. And I play lots of commanders too. Fast power ramping ones like Mengsk, Artanis, Zagara and Stukov, to slow ramping ones like Karax, Swann, Fenix and even Vorazun sometimes. I just don't know if Kerrigan is hard or if the people I get playing her are just poop, no offence.
I agree with the fact that Kerri can solo any mission if is well played, cause I have seen people use her alone, using just the Nyduses, sometimes with Mass Ultra + Hydra, or just Hydra, or like me, with the resources aura, wich just Mass Muralisks and with an insane level of micro can solo any mission
Ya I often use Kerrigan as she is one of my favorite commanders. And I have no she is kinda op, even on hard and brutal I have carried or even won solo ( partner left the match early). In easier settings she doesn't even need an army to back her up she can solo everything, but on brutal and some hard maps it's nice using her hydras and omega worms with perhaps a couple ultras sprinkled in. I would have placed her in the s tier, just with a warning that you can't be shit if your going to use her as you need to keep her alive for her to be useful lol
Zagara has some of the best anti air in the game. Once her scourge are fully upgraded they're virtually free and do splash too. Any air armies evaporate in less than 2 seconds regardless of how much hp they have.
I would argue she has the best anti air in the game. Scourge literally evaporate any and all air. Only drawback is AoE which can really give her trouble.
I see your skill level when you ranked all the free commanders low. Raynor had always been considered as one of the strongest commander, that is very difficult to play properly. So difficult to play that is generally not recommended to inexperienced players but speedrunners often consider him the best. Kerrigan is the most mobile commander with her omega network. In skilled hands she is basically unstoppable, teleport around the map and keep destroying. This can also help your partner to transport troops making every mission a breeze, as most of them involve moving around each objective. Artanis may not have very high base destruction potential, his guardian shield is the best support ability in co-op while he is the only commander that can instantly convert gas into AoE damage without a true limit by summoning full energy HTs while you need them. Shield overcharge and guardian shield are completely broken with cracklings or stim-marines your partner may have. Dragoon and orbital strike trump all air units, he have no real weakness at all except the low mobility of standing troops and the general slower pace at destroying enemy buildings. Basically, every commander are completely busted if you play them right. Some are just easier to play than others.
Artanis also gets an almost free teleport at P2, letting him blink immortal/archon/dragoon armies around the map instantly. Make like three observers or something and you can obj snipe hard in this game.
Yeh. I play Raynor and basically anything early game is just dead. He also got some good high teir stuff but I can only really do early game. But once you get orbital strike you can just bassicly plop down an entire bio army on any point on the map which is stupid.
With Swann you can just have 4 Hercules fully loaded up with siege-mode siege tanks, teleport somewhere, and insta-drop. Insta death to everything there
On Artanis I sort of disagree as both a long time protoss player and a long time Artanis player. He's simple because he has to be - and while he doesn't have much variety in terms of army composition, meaning you'll still be using primarily gateway units with a sprinkling of reavers, and very rarely Tempests for certain missions, his army is VERY powerful, and High Archons are just the icing on the cake with their ability to support zealots while doing massive amounts of AoE damage. In general, Artanis' AoE is some of the strongest in the game, being able to slaughter legions of marines, zerglings or enemy zealots with just whirlwind zealots alone, couple that with the psionic storms that keep zealots alive AND do massive amounts of damage (especially on P1, Valorous Inspirator) in an area. He's not bad as a commander, just boring. I love Artanis but he is.
@@rectsq If you aren't taking Archons too you aren't playing him correctly enough for Brutal+. Their Shield regenerating Storms are essential for keeping your Zealots alive. Sure he's on the cheaper side of Protoss unit compositions, but at the same time 2base isn't enough to fund an army like that in time if it goes more south than usual.
@@rectsq I personally don't even use zealots beyond the start of the game. 200 supply right away? You just need good economy and you are set for a dragoon span... which means anti air and anti ground. Not to mention that dragoons aren't soft so if you have any ally that can heal your troops (like Kerrigan's healing creep or Abathur's heal), you are set.
@@uwwwort3862 Just dragoons is inefficient, because they occupy a lot of surface and can't all fire at once. Also, they aren't great vs some comps like ling/bane. But dragoons with some reaver/immortal on top? Unkillable composition, those reavers are one of the best units in the game. Like the vanilla disruptor, only that it fires much faster and doesn't deal friendly fire. They have both huge splash and huge damage per hit, no ground unit is an effective counter.
@@Leonhart_93 Yeah I see your points. A ling or even wore, bane composition would be a problem. And yeah, mixing in some immortals or reavers would make them even better.
From what I understand, co-op is actually the most played game mode in the game, even more than the standard ladder. In most situations, that would guarantee more content being created for that game mode (which unfortunately is not the case here).
Would place dehaka a bit higher. His air game is flat out unkillable, and for te early game not only does dehaka spawn faster than other heroes, his oneshot ability allows him to instanly soften up objectives at a point in the game where everyone else is stil focused on economy, the only thing really able to scare away dehaka early on being defensive buildings. Add to that great hero mobility AND insane calldowns that can handle attacks on the base on their own... Dehaka is easily one of if not the best overall commander in the game in my book And Karak's troops are awesome, its just that his ground forces lack a strong anti air unit and have a horrid price. His energizers are the best support unit in coop mode however, allowing foward deployment as well as a MASSIVE damage boost. Basically his ground game is more about supporting and providing amazing damage sponges to his ally than working on his own. Tychus is both strong and weak. His group of mercs, properly manages, will devour entire armies in SECONDS, and he has great mobility, but he has little map presence should medivacs be down or should multiple areas of the map require his presence at the same time, needing to masically displace his entire army if he needs to defend the base. Also his merc group has a tendency to either take no loss at all, or be completely obliterated, with little in between. Lastly for Raynor... he is the only commander having marines for a reason. I saw one guy solo brutal with basically nothing but infantry, and he didnt even seem to struggle
Honestly... regarding Dehaka... yes he himself is probably hands down the best unit in all of StarCraft 2's code. Possibly even better than campaign Kerrigan at full power. The problem with dehaka as a commander is that he really is based on the fact that he is so good.... he's comparatively bad on defense which like with Tychus is because of his focus on hero units rather than armies.. even if his air game is good, tons of other commanders beat him easily. Thinking about Karax carrier rushing, prestige Raynor just buildimg his advanced units for BC domination or even mengsk's Pride of Augustgrad BCs which arent as spammable but damn those things hit hard
"Tychus is both strong and weak." Yeah, he has little map presence when his multiple charges of instantly teleporting that also heal and turn invis are on their massive 2-minute cooldown unbuffed by mastery, lmao.
@@fyr3st0rm65 thats not enough on defensive missions for him to handle multiple enemy entry points though. He can move around fast in a pinch, but that doesnt allow him to really be everywhere at once. Take something like dead of night: no amount of mobility will allow tychus to satisfy that amount of map presence, and you cant just spam it over and over either. Really try to handle the defense on your own as tychus on temple of the past or dead of the night on serious difficulties... He just cant do it.
@@thorveim1174 Have seen a Tychus player on a defensive mission basically solo each of his heroes strategically around the map to spawn camp the enemy's drop in locations. Now he seemed to be micro controlling each character setting up a series of movements and ability uses. Eventually by the end, my slow burn on Swann was enough for me to cover areas, so he was no longer having to move around.
I like the tier list i agree with it as far as non prestige goes, if you bring in prestiges though it would look pretty different, ex. Tychus lone wolf prestige being top tier
people are sleeping on karax's energizer reclaim ability you can make an army of sentinel+energizer army against protoss and terran as long as they have mechanical units which allows you to remove a threat instantly and boost your army for the next fight its more of a tempo based build but its very good especially when you consider the fact that all you need is several gateways
As someone who has been playing a lot more Fenix lately (more so since I got p2 as well) and played a bunch of Zeratul….I see this as an absolute win lol
To everyone saying: "you're list is good, except actually this commander should be rated ____". One way to rank commanders is on "if they're played optimally and with mastery points invested. Their maximum potential". Another way would be to rank them based off of if how much your winrate would increase on an average if you have a completely random teammate on that commander. These two ways are completely valid and would give you completely different results on a tier list. I think Toxicspill's tier list is closer to the second example. He is more or less ranking them for how strong they would be as low-investment (less need for practice and pre-game customization) picks for non-vereran players playing on casual-hard (brutal at most) difficulty with no prestiege, who may not know everything there is to know about their Commanders. So it totally makes sense to see extremely potent characters with heavy downsides (I'll use Abathur and Nova for example) rated poorly, because these weaknesses will have a big impact on a lot of players. An excellent player may be able to completely nullify, or ignore these weaknesses, and a lot of pre-game customization can help with this too. but that doesn't matter for this tier list. A newer player may not be able to play agressively as needed on Abathur, or they might take unwarented losses to Nova's army which would cripple the player's army, putting them behind, or they might not have the mastery points / economy to put out enough Griffin Airstrikes. He's not ranking potential, or top level play. You knowing how to play a character well doesn't make them good for everyone, and doesn't mean one character should be higher on a list where no one else is rated based on potential. This said, I still appreciate people who are kindly letting everyone know the characters which do have the most potential, or are strongest with prestieges, or how they get around a character's weakness (like what their anti-air options are). This response is just for the parts of comments where some people are saying the list is 'wrong'. IMO Content creators aren't clear enough on the type of list they are aiming to make, or clear enough about their criteria, 95% of the time, and it always rattles everyone. I think Toxicspill made it fairly clear that the list wasn't to be taken super seriously for hardcore players. But a lot of viewers just skip to the end and comment.
Okay, yes I can see the argument of it being a tier list for very casual players and yeah, I can kinda see logic there. But even still there are some very questionable placements. For example Swann… look vespene drones are great and all but his army is bad. To me it’s surprising that Kerrigan is placed lower on the “bad unit” argument because even on pure a-move Kerrigan’s units are better than Swann’s. I would also note Zagara and Artanis are… strange? Zealot/dragoon a-move is one of the strongest a-move armies in co-op. Meanwhile Zagara… is a perfect example of a commander where I expect *even less* than normal from random matchmaker allies. Another note I would make is that… look I understand that not all of us play MOBAs but this is extreme hero unit undervaluing. Nova and Kerrigan, sure. I can get the argument that there’s quite a bit of actual skill involved in getting value out of their hero units. But Stetmann? You overcharge a stetallite next to Super Gary and occasionally e-gorb, noting that those orbs *don’t stack* so don’t blow both charges in one place. It’s dead simple and literally is enough to solo win games without a single unit produced. Not to mention some of Stetmann’s units are actually good, and specifically his zerglings are hilariously broken. My last and most subjective complaint is Mengsk who… I mean I don’t understand how you can find ESOs easy to use but fail even the most basic dirt level micro on every other commander. It doesn’t quite make sense to me but I guess ESO really are easy so sure, give Mengsk a bone. Anyways, I think that no matter what argument for “what type of tier list this is”, you’ll have some completely non-sensical outliers who are way misplaced, but hey tier lists are subjective and at the end of the day should not really be taken too seriously.
@@sticksbender4057 Swann's army is one of the strongest in the late game, but it takes a lot of Micro to get the best out of it + the early game is a huge slog for him. Goliaths and Thors can decimate air units while Siege Tanks + Hercules destroy anything on the ground with insane mobility. His Science Vessels provide tons of utility thanks to healing, detection, and it's abilities, and to top it off, he's got the Laser drill so he can snipe enemy waves or weaken bases before his army even arrives.
@@dondaketype8811mass Goliath or mass cyclone a move armies are also a perfectly fine option for swann. Just throw in some science vessels and focus on casting defensive matrix on the Frontline and you can just power through almost everything. If your facing lings zealots or marines throw in some hellbats.
Alarak, Dehaka and Tychus are all basically the cool looking, more brutal bodyguards to the main leader in each of their campaigns, and they are each my favorite commanders.
Dude, Arbathur is practically invincible with the first unit you can make, for no gas. Especially with the FIRST prestige. Can have a whole army of roach ravager where every unit has like 600 health and bile does like 200 dmg. You can make 20 roaches off one base and finish the game with the same army. Hilarious hes not top tier. Maybe because his aa? But you can upgrade swarm hosts to attack air, their fighting units also cost nothing, they auto pop like a tank, and they can teleport around the map with deep tunnel. OP as fuck. And 3 out of 4 all his prestige's are just crazy strong.
Nova is probably my favorite commander, but I do aggree about the LONG cooldown to get new units being a problem. Loose your army at once, and it's basically gg
the funny thing about fenix/talandar is that his first prestige, akhundelar, is just a straight upgrade when you play the game right. between the three suits he can have about 50% uptime, (more than that-the arbiter can deploy as often as you want) and there are very few maps where you’re engaging the enemy more than 50% of the time. play your cards right and fenix is on the battlefield for every fight, only recharging when absolutely necessary
No Surprise Mengsk is top of the list. He's so much fun to play, P1 with ESO spam is ridiculous because you generate Mandate for Dogs of War while sitting in base. Sure it can be a war of attrition, but its a comfy way to play.
I bought abathur recently and been playing him for about 2 weeks he is the most fun commander to play. Commander with most kills I would go for Han and Horner. You should do another video including all prestige tiers, some has op prestige tiers while others utter useless.
I was considering getting all the protoss Commanders up to 15 after I finally got around to doing coop and getting Artanis and Vorazun up there. Good to know Zeratul is worth my time, he's an OG
If we're only counting P0s, Kerrigan should be at the top, not at the bottom, omega worm strat can do any map with almost 0 effort. Nova too, there's no map that liberator spam with ravens supporting can't easily complete. Even just using Nova alone with griffin airstrikes cleans maps very fast, she should be at the top. Finally Stetmann even though his P2 is what makes him basically the strongest commander in the game, his P0 is still really really good, should be in "Strong" at the very least. But I understand this is your personal preference rather than trying to be as accurate as possible so it's fine.
actually... I agree with the nova one while completely disagreeing with you LOL I main nova and I NEVER use air. I can play brutal pretty easily and I'm starting to get used to brutal+. I got exactly 61 mastery points.
@@Ed.07 Well you're not exactly disagreeing with me, you just use a different strat and that's fine! Disagreeing would mean that you'd say that Nova's liberators suck. 😄 (and considering you main Nova you probably know you can't say that 😁)
Swann's wraiths arguably have the high output damage than most of the other units in the roster pound for pound. Not to mention that multiple scv's can build structures, you can get most of his builds on the go fairly early.
Mengsk: -Cheap Baneling soldiers that can be deployed literally anywhere on the map, and fight before wiping an army -Cheaper workers than any other commander, who are also the soldiers -Supply isn't just some useless barricade; it's a defensive structure -42 nukes -Zerg cyborg army that makes other Zerg look beta -Royal guards that make Karax's defenses look like a picnic. (Cheaper, mobile, and can be moved) -Propaganda Blimps What more can you want?
Hey! New to the channel and I enjoyed the video. I would like to add with Alarak that when you get his final prestige you get the ability to build a mothership at the beginning of the game with no tech requirements for 400/400. The mothership can build voids rays for 125/75 and can build up to 8 voids at a single time. Alarak is S tier with his final prestige because it lets you access the full glory and might of the Death Fleet!
@@lustiwello477 I honestly don’t think there is a downside to his final prestige. I think the “downside” is not being able to call down the mothership and void rays but it’s irrelevant because like I said above you get to just straight up build it. I’ll check again when I’m home.
All you need to know about this tierlist is fact he put Artanis low. Seriously bruh, he could have 2 weak units, but Guardian Shell still makes him amazing pick to just walk all over harder mutations. Not to mention the highest damage and aoe zealot, reavers or archons with psionic storm. Yeah, not worth watching if you place him at the very bottom xD Edit: Talking about Karax and not mentioning shadow cannon immortals... or 200hp zealots costing 80 minerals and having two lifes... Zagara lacks anti-air... Yeah, you must be awesome at the game xD
@@ToxicSpilll base kerrigan is still better than most tho she has great early game with a hero unit great mobility with omega networks great durability with ultralisks her only weakness is that her anti air is fragile so you cant brute force it but that can be solved with a little bit of practice
If count p0 only, no prestige S: Abathur, Zeratul A: Dehaka, Kerrigan, Stetman, Tychus, Mensk B: Zagara, Nova, Alarak, Vorazun C: Stukov, Fenix, Karax, Swann D: Artanis, HnH Kerrigan can do a lot of work if you asked me. I’m not the best but completed every mutation on Brutal without carried by allies. Random matches only.
Wow , one if not the stupidiest tier list i ever see in my life O.o .... it just seems to be done to trigger people that play the game . stetmann is literally one if not the most op commander in the game , he can even ignore most mutations .
Are you considering prestiges? And what level is this aimed at? I feel like this really needed more of a preamble to make it more useable. I am specifically thinking about Kerrigan when saying this, because Foy of Man Prestige is completely ridiculous in a lot of scenarios. Her army is still not the greatest, but you are playing coop, you are never on your own, so she works really well in smoothing out powercurves of your ally if they are at least somewhat competent.
So as a *Swann* main I would put him up in the "Strong" category. There's a couple reasons why: #1. Swann's offensive capabilities are much stronger than he's given credit for, there is essentially no ground based army that can do anything against Thors, including zerglings + banelings (due to 330mm cannon). #2. Drakken Laser Drill, especially with Heavy Weapons Specialist, is a unique global ability that turns him into a devastating kill machine anywhere he has vision. (This is strong with Stetman's map vision.) #3. Wraiths /w upgrades are incredibly mobile, incredibly high damage fighters great for precision strikes. They are a little squishy, but if you use them properly they are very effective. #4. The vespene gas buff is a significant boon to any hero that requires lots of vespene. Swann's biggest weakness is mobility, which can be well mitigated by Hercules, or essentially completely resolved with the P3 if chosen.
My favorite commanders are Zeratul, Nova, Dehaka, Fenix and Tychus. I find these commanders to be the most flexible, so that you can react quickly in difficult situations in order to be able to help in an emergency. I always play with the commanders who have a hero figure. I have difficulty with those without a hero figure.
I guess I play Kerrigan well? Pretty much all of the time I'm the one on the front line damning all the Hybrid to hell xD Also I love Mengsk, but man if you struggle like I did when I started Mengsk. Legit abandoned him as a commander for so long. Now I play him pretty often. :> But Zag has my heart. It's so much fun to just flood the field with zergling without any remorse. Oh and Backwater Reynor is pretty great xD
A couple thoughts 1: I was hoping to learn something watching your tier list but you immediately started ranking the commanders off of respect and customization which doesn't really make sense... 2: You skipped over Mengsk and someone watching this might not know anything about that commander... 3: Maybe give your tier list some basis to go off of outside of your opinion of the commander, for example "this commander is great at defending because x,y,z or this commander is great at being aggressive because x,y,z" Just suggestions, keep making content, and best of luck with it!
@@scarredable Abathur has the ability of an insane strong army that has almost no weaknesses. At the same time his units heal when doing damage and toxic nests kombined with good enemy pulling and map knowledge let you get out your first brutalisk in less than 5 minutes. Combine that with the fact that he barely needs recourses, that you can often times skip your expansion and the fast Tec up speed that he has and you get the strongest commander in the game. However you have to be pretty good at him to pull off some things that dictate his early game aggression.
Abatur and stukov both are only have 2 weakness mutations so both of them are on place one. Abatur is better at the early game. Stukov is unbeatable in the mid to endgame. You cannot lose with stukov after bunker 15 in p3. From the fun side abatur is much cooler but harder to manage. Stukov is basicly 3 Buttons.
Stettman is my favourite. And he has a lot of support, but he can dish out a lot with a mix of gling + hydra. The gling are tanky thanks to their egonergy, and are a bane to the AI terran mech or even suicidal zerg (if correctly micro’d)
Karax is my fav. His defensive abilities are amazing. Hes the best support commander in the game imo, and the carriers are pretty much unkillable once you get repair beam and drones upgrades finished. Plus if your going mass carrier you have 1000's of minerals left over to build cannons since they are so gas heavy. I can do brutal +3 pretty easy with him. Ngl though just use mengsk... no gimmick, hes just straight up OP.
Glad I ended up getting reccommended a video reacting to this tier list after watching this as things felt a bit weird. I do not think I will be going on to watch those guides or anything else from the channel.
Playing artanid with any Zergling commander makes you clear the first 10 minutes of any mission for free. Insane on 90% of all one shot Mutations also with the emergency shield. Dragoons are a free win against any air wave mission, since Mass light is his weakness he has even 4 counters for that. Top bar, Zealot mineral dump, Reavers and Archons. The command that needing hotkeys is a negative... I'm sorry for your loss but being below 90 APM after so many years is just sad. Never gotten diamond in 1v1 but masters in team ranked. But having abilities on units isn't a problem, that's an upside. Depending on prestiges some of these get even more overpowered like Malignant creep kerrigan strategies are bonkers.
Vorazun is my favorite commander, which admittedly is because I have always loved dark templar (since SC1). But, with a combined army of couriers and dark templars, you can make the enemy unable to fight you for a bit and then you hit time stop. Instant death. But, I agree with your ranking as her defense sucks
But isn't it more correct to rank the prestiges? P3 Nova for example is S or the best A tier and many commanders have good prestiges. Also my heart cries with Dehaka, stetman and Abathur not being SS tier
I'd definitely put Swann lower and Nova higher. Swann's units are metaphorical shit. His regular units, such as Goliaths and Wraiths die way too easily, while his "good" units - the Thors are slow and bulky. On lower difficulties he's a blast to play, but on higher ones one can not amass a critical amount of units to make things easy, as his shit dies all the time. Unless he goes for mass Thors, which takes a while. As for Nova - her units don't die that much at all. And her P1 fixes the problem mentioned in the video. While with P3, she doesn't need to rely much on units whatsoever, as she can greatly weaken enemy bases before her army can just go in and finish the job.
I'm going to be very polite and just let you know that this list is wrong lol. Putting Kerrigan on the bottom just proves that. And saying stetmann is defensive is just wrong. Do you main casual?
The primal zergs are not “going back in time” in terms of evolution, because they continued to evolve on Zerus all this years, just separated from the Swarm. Great vid!
Nova and Vorazun are the literal definition of quality over quantity; them being in middle bottom is a disgrace, although they do not deserve the top spots either. That would go to Raynor, Kerrigan and Artanis.
Karax - I completely agree. Powerful late game commander but you need that second base and a few upgrades before you can start to build a sizeable force. I almost don't even bother with Sentinels because they are 130 minerals each and they are lackluster at best. Instantly spawning pylons allows you to build your base quickly but Photon cannons are squishy and you could end up sinking a lot of minerals if you are struggling on defense taking from your carrier and upgrade fund. Spear of Adun is by far Karax's best asset he has, you can upgrade it to provide a lot of points pretty fast and the orbital strike is really good and you get it early allowing you to use it on defense even on the first wave. Solar lance can tear through masses of enemies making real quick work of them and you can use a chrono surge to make a carrier and upgrade almost anything simultaneously in just 20 seconds (with its 500% upgrade), this includes your partner, so it becomes a VERY powerful ability if there is communication and coordination. Swann - I personally like Swann. When he gets the warfactory tech upgrade you can pump out units REALLY quick, building 2 Thor at once. All his units don't take long to build, not overly expensive and they aren't squishy. Not too many upgrades or things to worry with Swann allowing you to get to fully upgraded Goliath's and Thor's before mid game. His ability is only OK, Pulse Cannon being the best but expensive to get there, I think a total of 750, 750 minerals and vespene. Great video and good dissection of each character!
You can use Spear boop and healots to support the other guy pushing, and maybe a few cannons. OR you can clear the other guy's expansion for him while he pushes :D
You put down karax and swann because they don't have strong attack unit fast? Ok, so tychus just CAN'T defend = trash tier. You just rank down hero because they aren't offensive, but take tychus to do defense map and let's see if you still see him as " strong ". (Basically, I leave every time I'm with a tychus).
I wasn't going to dislike this video, but I feel personally affronted that you put one of the strongest, and one of my favorite, commanders in the bottom tier just because you aren't good enough to use her properly.
Stetmann is amazing. I just love seeing my partner doing his best to carry with my statellites. lol. But support only? nah, super gary is amaaaazing~ l don't need anything else actually.
So Han and Horner are better than Kerrigan and Fenix is considered overpowered, despite being vulnerable to swarm tactics, and Alarak and Dehaka are just considered strong despite the fact that both of them can solo entire matches with the correct prestige if they chose to. I don't even know where to begin with how many bad takes this has.
I agree, until you need to fight against protos air comp with the Corsair. Those shoot down all your scourge before you can come even close to connecting.
So artanis can be "better" if your good at hotkeys and micros. But your unit comp is so critical as well. So no matter what you do there are enemy AI's that can roll you on brutal.
My guy, why do you bother making a tier list, when you clearly don't really understand coop that well(besides the fact that you click on the map to jump from base to base and legit press on an overlord to build it). I never heard someone say zagara lacks anti air, her queens give you double the larvae you'd normally get, which allows you to spawn huge amounts of scourges and nuke the entire map. get some macro hatcheries if you STILL struggle with air. And putting kerrigan at the bottom is just straight up offending every decent coop player. Kerrigan on her own can shred through entire waves easily, besides her relatively mobile army which just makes her insanley strong(if you atleast know what you are doing, but okay).
I lone wolf to level after 15. When I drink too much I switch to P1 Stetman. I pop out drones as fast as I can, swap to heal and rush zerglings and ultras to tank while they kill. Yet man people don't like me or the character since half the time they leave.
Well this is kinda "noob tierlist", but hey, its OK. For experienced players, who rate commanders by soloing regular brutal difficulty (and / or soloing brutal weekly mutations), thing are very different.
Meh... For Zagara i mostly use the Prestige, where Zagara herself isn't in play, but increase the maximum supply and the Scourge Nest gives free scourges as well. Free banelings + free scourges, and you only need to pay for a few zerglings (which come in a package of four) and a few tankier units. Those free units with the right upgrades can repeatedly go on waves of harassment to the enemy, chipping away their defenses, and as they doesn't cost anything after the necessary buildings and upgrades are done, you can have enough resources to build a proper defense for your base. Those Bile Launchers are no joke, if you position them right!
this is the worst list i ever seen, having swan above stetman while stetman can solo the whole map before swan having an max army XD same for kerrigan, some people even play her like a RPG only using her and build 0 unit you still win
I'm sorry but i cannot for the life of me understand why you say that Zagara's greatest weakness is air when scourges are literally made for the sole purpose of melting anything that even thinks about flying. Mix enough of them in with the "cloud of death" strategy and i find that air almost never troubles me
Okay, as a Nova main in CoOp (as is probably obvious on my pfp), the description of Nova in this video is downright ignorant. In my honest opinion, I think she's absolutely broken and needs nerfs. The -only- drawback to Nova is her unit cooldowns. Thats it. That's the only drawback. She can solo most maps with ease. Y'all wanna argue with me, @ me. I think she should S tier, Strong at worst. Name me something you think she'd have a hard time dealing with, and I'll tell you how I'd handle it without braking a sweat. Or how any experienced Nova player would handle it.
This guy is a noob. Clearly. Kerrigan is one of my preferred partner commanders because *M I N E R A L S* and I main stetmann and me and my brother (who mains dehaka) CURBSTOMPED a mutation ON HARD. And we could've beaten it on brutal. Also I carried several games as stetmann while the other guy acted like a bumbling noob.
Stetmann is pretty good actually. His zerglings are almost unkillable and every 2 dead zergling get recycled into another one. With mono-zerglings you can beat any ground army. If there's heavy air, just add some hydra
the strongest aspect of Stetmann is Super Gary, especially in p2, Best Friend. He demolishes bases even in mutations, has a 100 dps area of effect spell that hits ground and air, insane mobility with garyzone+speed boost, 90 damage attacks, and stetelite overcharges. These are goddamn strong, especially when the stetelites are set to heal. It gives gary 60 shields, every half a second. The healing itself, combined with masteries, is 22 hp per second, so combining all that, it is basically a 142 hp per second heal. It is entirely possible to solo mutations and brutal+4 difficulties with ease. Just an insane commander in my opinion.
Mecha-carriers is most stronger units
@@k1m9n4ik the most expensive unit is not the strongest one. Try zerglings at least once
@@TheOneYouCantBEAR it’s just a plague of locusts destroying everything in its path
can confirm my stetmann became a temporary zagara rounding all banes ang lings 200 supply
"Zagara not good at air"
*Laughs with free scourges*
Ive been carrying coops and muts with Kerrigan while my partners pretty much sit and drink tea so disagree on that one
I agree, I had more than one match where I get absolutely bodied (get my base harassed by flying units as Stukov, got anihilated as Abathur and must get the ball rolling again, etc) and I watch as my Kerrigan partner carries me to victory.
I'm the opposite, every time I get a Kerrigan I can't help but wonder if this one will do anything. Almost every Kerri I get plays mostly with her alone (no prestiege) and tries to mass mutalisks and fails because mutas cost way too much, and maps move way too fast for them apparently. I end up having to carry like 80% of Kerrigans on Hard, I don't know if I can one on Brutal but so far I only play Brutal with a premade. The few good ones mass Hydralisks and an some Ultralisks if they set up a fast econ.
And I play lots of commanders too. Fast power ramping ones like Mengsk, Artanis, Zagara and Stukov, to slow ramping ones like Karax, Swann, Fenix and even Vorazun sometimes. I just don't know if Kerrigan is hard or if the people I get playing her are just poop, no offence.
I agree with the fact that Kerri can solo any mission if is well played, cause I have seen people use her alone, using just the Nyduses, sometimes with Mass Ultra + Hydra, or just Hydra, or like me, with the resources aura, wich just Mass Muralisks and with an insane level of micro can solo any mission
Ya I often use Kerrigan as she is one of my favorite commanders. And I have no she is kinda op, even on hard and brutal I have carried or even won solo ( partner left the match early). In easier settings she doesn't even need an army to back her up she can solo everything, but on brutal and some hard maps it's nice using her hydras and omega worms with perhaps a couple ultras sprinkled in. I would have placed her in the s tier, just with a warning that you can't be shit if your going to use her as you need to keep her alive for her to be useful lol
Hey, I want play with you and drink tea. Choose your Kerrigan. 😊
Zagara has some of the best anti air in the game. Once her scourge are fully upgraded they're virtually free and do splash too. Any air armies evaporate in less than 2 seconds regardless of how much hp they have.
I would argue she has the best anti air in the game. Scourge literally evaporate any and all air. Only drawback is AoE which can really give her trouble.
@@u2traevious agreed
Try Stukov's mass diamondbacks in the fleshwelder prestige, and they're attacking while on the move.
@@jakethesnake466 lol I literally just started doing this last week 😂😂
@@L3monsta hope you have fun with it, Stukov gets OP fast
swann: is tiny and has a lot of problems because of that
toxic spill: cuts his photo by 30%, making him even shorter ...
I see your skill level when you ranked all the free commanders low.
Raynor had always been considered as one of the strongest commander, that is very difficult to play properly. So difficult to play that is generally not recommended to inexperienced players but speedrunners often consider him the best.
Kerrigan is the most mobile commander with her omega network. In skilled hands she is basically unstoppable, teleport around the map and keep destroying. This can also help your partner to transport troops making every mission a breeze, as most of them involve moving around each objective.
Artanis may not have very high base destruction potential, his guardian shield is the best support ability in co-op while he is the only commander that can instantly convert gas into AoE damage without a true limit by summoning full energy HTs while you need them. Shield overcharge and guardian shield are completely broken with cracklings or stim-marines your partner may have. Dragoon and orbital strike trump all air units, he have no real weakness at all except the low mobility of standing troops and the general slower pace at destroying enemy buildings.
Basically, every commander are completely busted if you play them right. Some are just easier to play than others.
Artanis also gets an almost free teleport at P2, letting him blink immortal/archon/dragoon armies around the map instantly. Make like three observers or something and you can obj snipe hard in this game.
Kerrigan is weak af try use her on a brutal+6 she useless
Yeh. I play Raynor and basically anything early game is just dead. He also got some good high teir stuff but I can only really do early game. But once you get orbital strike you can just bassicly plop down an entire bio army on any point on the map which is stupid.
With Swann you can just have 4 Hercules fully loaded up with siege-mode siege tanks, teleport somewhere, and insta-drop. Insta death to everything there
@@StealthFoxx That won't help against flying armies... And that's why you need a proper upgrade on that Laser Drill!
On Artanis I sort of disagree as both a long time protoss player and a long time Artanis player. He's simple because he has to be - and while he doesn't have much variety in terms of army composition, meaning you'll still be using primarily gateway units with a sprinkling of reavers, and very rarely Tempests for certain missions, his army is VERY powerful, and High Archons are just the icing on the cake with their ability to support zealots while doing massive amounts of AoE damage. In general, Artanis' AoE is some of the strongest in the game, being able to slaughter legions of marines, zerglings or enemy zealots with just whirlwind zealots alone, couple that with the psionic storms that keep zealots alive AND do massive amounts of damage (especially on P1, Valorous Inspirator) in an area. He's not bad as a commander, just boring. I love Artanis but he is.
mass dragoon with some whirl zelaots beats everything anyways.
@@rectsq If you aren't taking Archons too you aren't playing him correctly enough for Brutal+. Their Shield regenerating Storms are essential for keeping your Zealots alive. Sure he's on the cheaper side of Protoss unit compositions, but at the same time 2base isn't enough to fund an army like that in time if it goes more south than usual.
@@rectsq I personally don't even use zealots beyond the start of the game. 200 supply right away? You just need good economy and you are set for a dragoon span... which means anti air and anti ground. Not to mention that dragoons aren't soft so if you have any ally that can heal your troops (like Kerrigan's healing creep or Abathur's heal), you are set.
@@uwwwort3862 Just dragoons is inefficient, because they occupy a lot of surface and can't all fire at once. Also, they aren't great vs some comps like ling/bane. But dragoons with some reaver/immortal on top? Unkillable composition, those reavers are one of the best units in the game. Like the vanilla disruptor, only that it fires much faster and doesn't deal friendly fire. They have both huge splash and huge damage per hit, no ground unit is an effective counter.
@@Leonhart_93 Yeah I see your points. A ling or even wore, bane composition would be a problem. And yeah, mixing in some immortals or reavers would make them even better.
i wish we'd get more love on the coop again... it's the only mode i like (next to a good campaign before). Yes, i'm one of "those" guys :D
Me to
♥
Same😂
More love on the co-op? Take Mira & Han, or in a pre-made team Raynor & Kerrigan! 🤣
From what I understand, co-op is actually the most played game mode in the game, even more than the standard ladder. In most situations, that would guarantee more content being created for that game mode (which unfortunately is not the case here).
Would place dehaka a bit higher. His air game is flat out unkillable, and for te early game not only does dehaka spawn faster than other heroes, his oneshot ability allows him to instanly soften up objectives at a point in the game where everyone else is stil focused on economy, the only thing really able to scare away dehaka early on being defensive buildings. Add to that great hero mobility AND insane calldowns that can handle attacks on the base on their own... Dehaka is easily one of if not the best overall commander in the game in my book
And Karak's troops are awesome, its just that his ground forces lack a strong anti air unit and have a horrid price. His energizers are the best support unit in coop mode however, allowing foward deployment as well as a MASSIVE damage boost. Basically his ground game is more about supporting and providing amazing damage sponges to his ally than working on his own.
Tychus is both strong and weak. His group of mercs, properly manages, will devour entire armies in SECONDS, and he has great mobility, but he has little map presence should medivacs be down or should multiple areas of the map require his presence at the same time, needing to masically displace his entire army if he needs to defend the base. Also his merc group has a tendency to either take no loss at all, or be completely obliterated, with little in between.
Lastly for Raynor... he is the only commander having marines for a reason. I saw one guy solo brutal with basically nothing but infantry, and he didnt even seem to struggle
agree
Honestly... regarding Dehaka... yes he himself is probably hands down the best unit in all of StarCraft 2's code. Possibly even better than campaign Kerrigan at full power. The problem with dehaka as a commander is that he really is based on the fact that he is so good.... he's comparatively bad on defense which like with Tychus is because of his focus on hero units rather than armies.. even if his air game is good, tons of other commanders beat him easily. Thinking about Karax carrier rushing, prestige Raynor just buildimg his advanced units for BC domination or even mengsk's Pride of Augustgrad BCs which arent as spammable but damn those things hit hard
"Tychus is both strong and weak." Yeah, he has little map presence when his multiple charges of instantly teleporting that also heal and turn invis are on their massive 2-minute cooldown unbuffed by mastery, lmao.
@@fyr3st0rm65 thats not enough on defensive missions for him to handle multiple enemy entry points though. He can move around fast in a pinch, but that doesnt allow him to really be everywhere at once. Take something like dead of night: no amount of mobility will allow tychus to satisfy that amount of map presence, and you cant just spam it over and over either. Really try to handle the defense on your own as tychus on temple of the past or dead of the night on serious difficulties... He just cant do it.
@@thorveim1174 Have seen a Tychus player on a defensive mission basically solo each of his heroes strategically around the map to spawn camp the enemy's drop in locations. Now he seemed to be micro controlling each character setting up a series of movements and ability uses. Eventually by the end, my slow burn on Swann was enough for me to cover areas, so he was no longer having to move around.
You could make several tear list, they are always nice to have
Easy to play
Strong early game
Best Synergy
Best counter for difficult mutations
Prestige versions might also be interesting
True, and I think these specific tier lists would provide more logic to the "overall" list (i.e. the one in this video).
>Skipped to the end of video to see the final table
>Swann better than Nova
>Good video, fair places
I like the tier list i agree with it as far as non prestige goes, if you bring in prestiges though it would look pretty different, ex. Tychus lone wolf prestige being top tier
people are sleeping on karax's energizer reclaim ability
you can make an army of sentinel+energizer army against protoss and terran as long as they have mechanical units which allows you to remove a threat instantly and boost your army for the next fight
its more of a tempo based build but its very good especially when you consider the fact that all you need is several gateways
If you are strong enough, there's no weak commander😃
As someone who has been playing a lot more Fenix lately (more so since I got p2 as well) and played a bunch of Zeratul….I see this as an absolute win lol
LOL
To everyone saying: "you're list is good, except actually this commander should be rated ____".
One way to rank commanders is on "if they're played optimally and with mastery points invested. Their maximum potential". Another way would be to rank them based off of if how much your winrate would increase on an average if you have a completely random teammate on that commander. These two ways are completely valid and would give you completely different results on a tier list.
I think Toxicspill's tier list is closer to the second example. He is more or less ranking them for how strong they would be as low-investment (less need for practice and pre-game customization) picks for non-vereran players playing on casual-hard (brutal at most) difficulty with no prestiege, who may not know everything there is to know about their Commanders. So it totally makes sense to see extremely potent characters with heavy downsides (I'll use Abathur and Nova for example) rated poorly, because these weaknesses will have a big impact on a lot of players. An excellent player may be able to completely nullify, or ignore these weaknesses, and a lot of pre-game customization can help with this too. but that doesn't matter for this tier list. A newer player may not be able to play agressively as needed on Abathur, or they might take unwarented losses to Nova's army which would cripple the player's army, putting them behind, or they might not have the mastery points / economy to put out enough Griffin Airstrikes. He's not ranking potential, or top level play. You knowing how to play a character well doesn't make them good for everyone, and doesn't mean one character should be higher on a list where no one else is rated based on potential.
This said, I still appreciate people who are kindly letting everyone know the characters which do have the most potential, or are strongest with prestieges, or how they get around a character's weakness (like what their anti-air options are). This response is just for the parts of comments where some people are saying the list is 'wrong'.
IMO Content creators aren't clear enough on the type of list they are aiming to make, or clear enough about their criteria, 95% of the time, and it always rattles everyone. I think Toxicspill made it fairly clear that the list wasn't to be taken super seriously for hardcore players.
But a lot of viewers just skip to the end and comment.
Okay, yes I can see the argument of it being a tier list for very casual players and yeah, I can kinda see logic there. But even still there are some very questionable placements.
For example Swann… look vespene drones are great and all but his army is bad. To me it’s surprising that Kerrigan is placed lower on the “bad unit” argument because even on pure a-move Kerrigan’s units are better than Swann’s. I would also note Zagara and Artanis are… strange? Zealot/dragoon a-move is one of the strongest a-move armies in co-op. Meanwhile Zagara… is a perfect example of a commander where I expect *even less* than normal from random matchmaker allies.
Another note I would make is that… look I understand that not all of us play MOBAs but this is extreme hero unit undervaluing. Nova and Kerrigan, sure. I can get the argument that there’s quite a bit of actual skill involved in getting value out of their hero units. But Stetmann? You overcharge a stetallite next to Super Gary and occasionally e-gorb, noting that those orbs *don’t stack* so don’t blow both charges in one place. It’s dead simple and literally is enough to solo win games without a single unit produced. Not to mention some of Stetmann’s units are actually good, and specifically his zerglings are hilariously broken.
My last and most subjective complaint is Mengsk who… I mean I don’t understand how you can find ESOs easy to use but fail even the most basic dirt level micro on every other commander. It doesn’t quite make sense to me but I guess ESO really are easy so sure, give Mengsk a bone.
Anyways, I think that no matter what argument for “what type of tier list this is”, you’ll have some completely non-sensical outliers who are way misplaced, but hey tier lists are subjective and at the end of the day should not really be taken too seriously.
@@sticksbender4057 Swann's army is one of the strongest in the late game, but it takes a lot of Micro to get the best out of it + the early game is a huge slog for him. Goliaths and Thors can decimate air units while Siege Tanks + Hercules destroy anything on the ground with insane mobility. His Science Vessels provide tons of utility thanks to healing, detection, and it's abilities, and to top it off, he's got the Laser drill so he can snipe enemy waves or weaken bases before his army even arrives.
@@dondaketype8811mass Goliath or mass cyclone a move armies are also a perfectly fine option for swann. Just throw in some science vessels and focus on casting defensive matrix on the Frontline and you can just power through almost everything. If your facing lings zealots or marines throw in some hellbats.
@mwperk02 they can be for sure but I feel like Goliath/Thor/Herc/Tanks do the job a bit better.
Ohai, nice tier list. Do you mind if I make a reaction video to this tier list?
Go ahead just make sure to give credit where it is due.
Alarak, Dehaka and Tychus are all basically the cool looking, more brutal bodyguards to the main leader in each of their campaigns, and they are each my favorite commanders.
Glad you did this, I've been looking for a Commander Tier List for ages.
According to the wiki, Abathur is the best and HanHorner is trash.
Don't listen to him ^^ non-sense tier list
This isn't a list you need to rely on. It is terrible
Dude, Arbathur is practically invincible with the first unit you can make, for no gas. Especially with the FIRST prestige. Can have a whole army of roach ravager where every unit has like 600 health and bile does like 200 dmg. You can make 20 roaches off one base and finish the game with the same army. Hilarious hes not top tier. Maybe because his aa? But you can upgrade swarm hosts to attack air, their fighting units also cost nothing, they auto pop like a tank, and they can teleport around the map with deep tunnel. OP as fuck. And 3 out of 4 all his prestige's are just crazy strong.
I know it will be much much longer, but better to do tierlist with all prestiges
Yeah, if prestige ranks were included, the video would be easily double the time.
I just like how Stetman is voiced by the same person who does Robin in the Teen Titans show
Nova is probably my favorite commander, but I do aggree about the LONG cooldown to get new units being a problem. Loose your army at once, and it's basically gg
the funny thing about fenix/talandar is that his first prestige, akhundelar, is just a straight upgrade when you play the game right. between the three suits he can have about 50% uptime, (more than that-the arbiter can deploy as often as you want) and there are very few maps where you’re engaging the enemy more than 50% of the time. play your cards right and fenix is on the battlefield for every fight, only recharging when absolutely necessary
Statistically speaking, Abathur is the strongest out of all of them with Zera and Dehaka tied close behind.
Dem Biomass are good stuff.
Stetman p2 is stronger than any Abathur prestige
@@HuyNguyen-ky9mq Who tf uses aba's prestiges?
Who the heck is Zera??
@@b151proofZera is short for Zeratul.
glad to see you back!
mengsk gets into the S tier
me: this is inhumane !!!
You dare question The Emperor's superiority in battle?
@@kapitan19969838 me ? I'm no traitor !
@@dtmeans8623 *Doubtful sneer, mixed with contempt*
@@kapitan19969838 say goodbye to your constituent atoms !
No Surprise Mengsk is top of the list. He's so much fun to play, P1 with ESO spam is ridiculous because you generate Mandate for Dogs of War while sitting in base. Sure it can be a war of attrition, but its a comfy way to play.
What you mean with "ESO"?
@@Berfermaz "Earthsplitter ordnance" - artillery structure
stukov is my stress free character. just build a few bunkers and watch the zombie horde rush
I bought abathur recently and been playing him for about 2 weeks he is the most fun commander to play. Commander with most kills I would go for Han and Horner. You should do another video including all prestige tiers, some has op prestige tiers while others utter useless.
Yeah, some are just garbage.
@@ToxicSpilll limitless sounds good but is very hard to use
Personally I like playing dehaka and abathur the most, followed by vorazun and Swann. I do wanna learn how to play fenix next.
Yes!!
I was considering getting all the protoss Commanders up to 15 after I finally got around to doing coop and getting Artanis and Vorazun up there. Good to know Zeratul is worth my time, he's an OG
FYI Mengsk is in the middle of the Kerrigan bar. He miss labeled it or something.
If we're only counting P0s, Kerrigan should be at the top, not at the bottom, omega worm strat can do any map with almost 0 effort.
Nova too, there's no map that liberator spam with ravens supporting can't easily complete. Even just using Nova alone with griffin airstrikes cleans maps very fast, she should be at the top.
Finally Stetmann even though his P2 is what makes him basically the strongest commander in the game, his P0 is still really really good, should be in "Strong" at the very least.
But I understand this is your personal preference rather than trying to be as accurate as possible so it's fine.
Yeah but not on high level, generally people here don’t seem to play the harder difficulty’s that much.
actually... I agree with the nova one while completely disagreeing with you LOL
I main nova and I NEVER use air. I can play brutal pretty easily and I'm starting to get used to brutal+.
I got exactly 61 mastery points.
@@Ed.07 Well you're not exactly disagreeing with me, you just use a different strat and that's fine! Disagreeing would mean that you'd say that Nova's liberators suck. 😄 (and considering you main Nova you probably know you can't say that 😁)
I think its really missleading tier list ^^
and Kerrigan is A or S tier lol not the worst..
little harsh on my part, I admit
Swann's wraiths arguably have the high output damage than most of the other units in the roster pound for pound.
Not to mention that multiple scv's can build structures, you can get most of his builds on the go fairly early.
Mengsk:
-Cheap Baneling soldiers that can be deployed literally anywhere on the map, and fight before wiping an army
-Cheaper workers than any other commander, who are also the soldiers
-Supply isn't just some useless barricade; it's a defensive structure
-42 nukes
-Zerg cyborg army that makes other Zerg look beta
-Royal guards that make Karax's defenses look like a picnic. (Cheaper, mobile, and can be moved)
-Propaganda Blimps
What more can you want?
43 nukes?
@@ToxicSpilll We're both wrong, it's 41. Sadge. T_T
@@elidnis9811 In any case it should be 43 then. I don't hear any objections.
@@ToxicSpilll mengsk is weak, his army do so bad vs aoe enemy compersition
@@hereticalbug3112 WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING!
Hey! New to the channel and I enjoyed the video.
I would like to add with Alarak that when you get his final prestige you get the ability to build a mothership at the beginning of the game with no tech requirements for 400/400. The mothership can build voids rays for 125/75 and can build up to 8 voids at a single time.
Alarak is S tier with his final prestige because it lets you access the full glory and might of the Death Fleet!
What is the bad part? Every prestige has good part and one bad part.
@@lustiwello477 I honestly don’t think there is a downside to his final prestige. I think the “downside” is not being able to call down the mothership and void rays but it’s irrelevant because like I said above you get to just straight up build it. I’ll check again when I’m home.
I looked the downside online, it‘s that Destroyers can‘t be summoned, and Destroyers cost supply, and Mass Recalls Cooldown is higher.
@@noblegen3_sh648I don‘t think that‘s worth it rly to grind 3 resets from level 15 to level 1.
All you need to know about this tierlist is fact he put Artanis low.
Seriously bruh, he could have 2 weak units, but Guardian Shell still makes him amazing pick to just walk all over harder mutations.
Not to mention the highest damage and aoe zealot, reavers or archons with psionic storm. Yeah, not worth watching if you place him at the very bottom xD
Edit: Talking about Karax and not mentioning shadow cannon immortals... or 200hp zealots costing 80 minerals and having two lifes...
Zagara lacks anti-air...
Yeah, you must be awesome at the game xD
Please make a Tier List about the best Prestiges, it would be awesome!!!
Thank you for starting the video with reminding me to please like and subscribe, for I would not have thought of that myself had you not reminded me
As a Kerri main I disagree with that place, her P2 folly of man is insane
Didn't rank with prestige ranks in mind
@@ToxicSpilll base kerrigan is still better than most tho
she has great early game with a hero unit
great mobility with omega networks
great durability with ultralisks
her only weakness is that her anti air is fragile so you cant brute force it but that can be solved with a little bit of practice
If count p0 only, no prestige
S: Abathur, Zeratul
A: Dehaka, Kerrigan, Stetman, Tychus, Mensk
B: Zagara, Nova, Alarak, Vorazun
C: Stukov, Fenix, Karax, Swann
D: Artanis, HnH
Kerrigan can do a lot of work if you asked me. I’m not the best but completed every mutation on Brutal without carried by allies. Random matches only.
Wow , one if not the stupidiest tier list i ever see in my life O.o .... it just seems to be done to trigger people that play the game . stetmann is literally one if not the most op commander in the game , he can even ignore most mutations .
Are you considering prestiges? And what level is this aimed at?
I feel like this really needed more of a preamble to make it more useable.
I am specifically thinking about Kerrigan when saying this, because Foy of Man Prestige is completely ridiculous in a lot of scenarios.
Her army is still not the greatest, but you are playing coop, you are never on your own, so she works really well in smoothing out powercurves of your ally if they are at least somewhat competent.
So as a *Swann* main I would put him up in the "Strong" category. There's a couple reasons why:
#1. Swann's offensive capabilities are much stronger than he's given credit for, there is essentially no ground based army that can do anything against Thors, including zerglings + banelings (due to 330mm cannon).
#2. Drakken Laser Drill, especially with Heavy Weapons Specialist, is a unique global ability that turns him into a devastating kill machine anywhere he has vision. (This is strong with Stetman's map vision.)
#3. Wraiths /w upgrades are incredibly mobile, incredibly high damage fighters great for precision strikes. They are a little squishy, but if you use them properly they are very effective.
#4. The vespene gas buff is a significant boon to any hero that requires lots of vespene.
Swann's biggest weakness is mobility, which can be well mitigated by Hercules, or essentially completely resolved with the P3 if chosen.
My favorite commanders are Zeratul, Nova, Dehaka, Fenix and Tychus.
I find these commanders to be the most flexible, so that you can react quickly in difficult situations in order to be able to help in an emergency. I always play with the commanders who have a hero figure. I have difficulty with those without a hero figure.
Dehakka should be #1. He requires 0 macro expect hotkey barracks, and scales faster than his enemies
I guess I play Kerrigan well? Pretty much all of the time I'm the one on the front line damning all the Hybrid to hell xD
Also I love Mengsk, but man if you struggle like I did when I started Mengsk. Legit abandoned him as a commander for so long. Now I play him pretty often. :>
But Zag has my heart. It's so much fun to just flood the field with zergling without any remorse. Oh and Backwater Reynor is pretty great xD
A couple thoughts
1: I was hoping to learn something watching your tier list but you immediately started ranking the commanders off of respect and customization which doesn't really make sense...
2: You skipped over Mengsk and someone watching this might not know anything about that commander...
3: Maybe give your tier list some basis to go off of outside of your opinion of the commander, for example "this commander is great at defending because x,y,z or this commander is great at being aggressive because x,y,z"
Just suggestions, keep making content, and best of luck with it!
They always tell me that Mengsk is garbage, I like it but I still feel very weak, is it really bad or is it good?
Abathur is actually the strongest one by far if you have the skill to play him right.
it could be said the same for everyone. Why abathur is diferent?
@@scarredable Abathur has the ability of an insane strong army that has almost no weaknesses. At the same time his units heal when doing damage and toxic nests kombined with good enemy pulling and map knowledge let you get out your first brutalisk in less than 5 minutes. Combine that with the fact that he barely needs recourses, that you can often times skip your expansion and the fast Tec up speed that he has and you get the strongest commander in the game. However you have to be pretty good at him to pull off some things that dictate his early game aggression.
Abatur and stukov both are only have 2 weakness mutations so both of them are on place one. Abatur is better at the early game. Stukov is unbeatable in the mid to endgame. You cannot lose with stukov after bunker 15 in p3. From the fun side abatur is much cooler but harder to manage. Stukov is basicly 3 Buttons.
I am subbing beacouse I love StarCraft keep it up
Thank you very much!
@@ToxicSpilll and as watching you older vids yes I misclicked and found your channel
Stettman is my favourite. And he has a lot of support, but he can dish out a lot with a mix of gling + hydra.
The gling are tanky thanks to their egonergy, and are a bane to the AI terran mech or even suicidal zerg (if correctly micro’d)
Karax is my fav. His defensive abilities are amazing. Hes the best support commander in the game imo, and the carriers are pretty much unkillable once you get repair beam and drones upgrades finished. Plus if your going mass carrier you have 1000's of minerals left over to build cannons since they are so gas heavy. I can do brutal +3 pretty easy with him. Ngl though just use mengsk... no gimmick, hes just straight up OP.
Glad I ended up getting reccommended a video reacting to this tier list after watching this as things felt a bit weird. I do not think I will be going on to watch those guides or anything else from the channel.
Playing artanid with any Zergling commander makes you clear the first 10 minutes of any mission for free.
Insane on 90% of all one shot Mutations also with the emergency shield.
Dragoons are a free win against any air wave mission, since Mass light is his weakness he has even 4 counters for that. Top bar, Zealot mineral dump, Reavers and Archons.
The command that needing hotkeys is a negative...
I'm sorry for your loss but being below 90 APM after so many years is just sad. Never gotten diamond in 1v1 but masters in team ranked. But having abilities on units isn't a problem, that's an upside.
Depending on prestiges some of these get even more overpowered like Malignant creep kerrigan strategies are bonkers.
Oh you cannot comprehend how absolutely op is artanis with zagara p2, 300 inmortal zerglings with insane dps that ignore armor is just absurd.
Vorazun is my favorite commander, which admittedly is because I have always loved dark templar (since SC1). But, with a combined army of couriers and dark templars, you can make the enemy unable to fight you for a bit and then you hit time stop. Instant death. But, I agree with your ranking as her defense sucks
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS THANK YOU!
But isn't it more correct to rank the prestiges? P3 Nova for example is S or the best A tier and many commanders have good prestiges. Also my heart cries with Dehaka, stetman and Abathur not being SS tier
I'd definitely put Swann lower and Nova higher. Swann's units are metaphorical shit. His regular units, such as Goliaths and Wraiths die way too easily, while his "good" units - the Thors are slow and bulky. On lower difficulties he's a blast to play, but on higher ones one can not amass a critical amount of units to make things easy, as his shit dies all the time. Unless he goes for mass Thors, which takes a while.
As for Nova - her units don't die that much at all. And her P1 fixes the problem mentioned in the video. While with P3, she doesn't need to rely much on units whatsoever, as she can greatly weaken enemy bases before her army can just go in and finish the job.
Sometimes I don't even resort to building armies with Desolate Queen. Kerrigan is a God in right hands. S tier, period.
I'm going to be very polite and just let you know that this list is wrong lol. Putting Kerrigan on the bottom just proves that. And saying stetmann is defensive is just wrong. Do you main casual?
Vorazun struggles against detectors...
Haha. Void Stasis go BRRR!
I love playing as Karax or Swann. Mechs and support!
Support player! We don't have enough of you guys!
static defense buddies is what happens if a karax main and a swann main meet
@@Kasane_Teto09088 I played when the game came out. I had this on temple defense quite often. Was good fun.
The primal zergs are not “going back in time” in terms of evolution, because they continued to evolve on Zerus all this years, just separated from the Swarm. Great vid!
Nova and Vorazun are the literal definition of quality over quantity; them being in middle bottom is a disgrace, although they do not deserve the top spots either. That would go to Raynor, Kerrigan and Artanis.
A better term for Raynor: Jack of all trades, master of none. I do understand where you're getting at with him tho
Watched your second list then came to watch this one. I enjoy your commentary
I play Tychud , Zeratul and Kerigan. I respect your decision. I don't have that much experience
Karax - I completely agree. Powerful late game commander but you need that second base and a few upgrades before you can start to build a sizeable force. I almost don't even bother with Sentinels because they are 130 minerals each and they are lackluster at best. Instantly spawning pylons allows you to build your base quickly but Photon cannons are squishy and you could end up sinking a lot of minerals if you are struggling on defense taking from your carrier and upgrade fund. Spear of Adun is by far Karax's best asset he has, you can upgrade it to provide a lot of points pretty fast and the orbital strike is really good and you get it early allowing you to use it on defense even on the first wave. Solar lance can tear through masses of enemies making real quick work of them and you can use a chrono surge to make a carrier and upgrade almost anything simultaneously in just 20 seconds (with its 500% upgrade), this includes your partner, so it becomes a VERY powerful ability if there is communication and coordination.
Swann - I personally like Swann. When he gets the warfactory tech upgrade you can pump out units REALLY quick, building 2 Thor at once. All his units don't take long to build, not overly expensive and they aren't squishy. Not too many upgrades or things to worry with Swann allowing you to get to fully upgraded Goliath's and Thor's before mid game. His ability is only OK, Pulse Cannon being the best but expensive to get there, I think a total of 750, 750 minerals and vespene.
Great video and good dissection of each character!
You can use Spear boop and healots to support the other guy pushing, and maybe a few cannons.
OR you can clear the other guy's expansion for him while he pushes :D
Been a while, bud. Good to see you back.
You put down karax and swann because they don't have strong attack unit fast?
Ok, so tychus just CAN'T defend = trash tier.
You just rank down hero because they aren't offensive, but take tychus to do defense map and let's see if you still see him as " strong ". (Basically, I leave every time I'm with a tychus).
toxic spill sounds about right
Play this week's mutation on brutal it insanely hard
I wasn't going to dislike this video, but I feel personally affronted that you put one of the strongest, and one of my favorite, commanders in the bottom tier just because you aren't good enough to use her properly.
Stetmann is amazing. I just love seeing my partner doing his best to carry with my statellites. lol. But support only? nah, super gary is amaaaazing~ l don't need anything else actually.
So Han and Horner are better than Kerrigan and Fenix is considered overpowered, despite being vulnerable to swarm tactics, and Alarak and Dehaka are just considered strong despite the fact that both of them can solo entire matches with the correct prestige if they chose to.
I don't even know where to begin with how many bad takes this has.
Kerrigan can solo entire maps without so much as touching the zergling hotkey.
Zeratul, tychus and mesk is S tier for me
Raynor and artanis really should be higher in my opinion.
And btw - Zagaras scourge are absolute counter to ANY air units. Just try to play P1 Zag
I agree, until you need to fight against protos air comp with the Corsair. Those shoot down all your scourge before you can come even close to connecting.
@@940o15tfxyi u just need a critical mass of them. I ve never had problems with skytoss
I love Stukovs diamondback explanation
So artanis can be "better" if your good at hotkeys and micros. But your unit comp is so critical as well. So no matter what you do there are enemy AI's that can roll you on brutal.
Alarak with mass Wrathwalker is disgustingly overpowered.
My guy, why do you bother making a tier list, when you clearly don't really understand coop that well(besides the fact that you click on the map to jump from base to base and legit press on an overlord to build it). I never heard someone say zagara lacks anti air, her queens give you double the larvae you'd normally get, which allows you to spawn huge amounts of scourges and nuke the entire map. get some macro hatcheries if you STILL struggle with air. And putting kerrigan at the bottom is just straight up offending every decent coop player. Kerrigan on her own can shred through entire waves easily, besides her relatively mobile army which just makes her insanley strong(if you atleast know what you are doing, but okay).
Would love to see a guide like this with all the different prestiges :D
I lone wolf to level after 15.
When I drink too much I switch to P1 Stetman. I pop out drones as fast as I can, swap to heal and rush zerglings and ultras to tank while they kill.
Yet man people don't like me or the character since half the time they leave.
Well this is kinda "noob tierlist", but hey, its OK. For experienced players, who rate commanders by soloing regular brutal difficulty (and / or soloing brutal weekly mutations), thing are very different.
If is considered prestige, then yes. It would be drastically different for ranking. Just didn't want the video to triple in length.
Meh... For Zagara i mostly use the Prestige, where Zagara herself isn't in play, but increase the maximum supply and the Scourge Nest gives free scourges as well. Free banelings + free scourges, and you only need to pay for a few zerglings (which come in a package of four) and a few tankier units. Those free units with the right upgrades can repeatedly go on waves of harassment to the enemy, chipping away their defenses, and as they doesn't cost anything after the necessary buildings and upgrades are done, you can have enough resources to build a proper defense for your base. Those Bile Launchers are no joke, if you position them right!
Tychus with lone wolf build + a bit of multi-tasking, it 's so imba that it gets boring.
This. Tychus Lone Wolf is busted as hell.
ok, temple of the past, let's see if it's so easy.
this is the worst list i ever seen, having swan above stetman while stetman can solo the whole map before swan having an max army XD same for kerrigan, some people even play her like a RPG only using her and build 0 unit you still win
"" they require hotkeys !" not on my watch!
I'll just assume this is a pre-prestige list because there is no way some of these are where they are lol
We need to consider the prestiges.... its a diferent dynamic.
This doesn't account for prestiges at all. Alarak, shadow of death is crazy OP
I'm sorry but i cannot for the life of me understand why you say that Zagara's greatest weakness is air when scourges are literally made for the sole purpose of melting anything that even thinks about flying. Mix enough of them in with the "cloud of death" strategy and i find that air almost never troubles me
Vorazun is the only commander that has blink stalkers, which is arguably the most flexible unit in the game.
Okay, as a Nova main in CoOp (as is probably obvious on my pfp), the description of Nova in this video is downright ignorant. In my honest opinion, I think she's absolutely broken and needs nerfs. The -only- drawback to Nova is her unit cooldowns. Thats it. That's the only drawback. She can solo most maps with ease.
Y'all wanna argue with me, @ me. I think she should S tier, Strong at worst. Name me something you think she'd have a hard time dealing with, and I'll tell you how I'd handle it without braking a sweat. Or how any experienced Nova player would handle it.
Dead of night solo, i want to see that.
ToxicSpill:
Enters
Puts Mengsk at the top of the tier list
Refuse to elaborate
Goes onto the next commander
No explanations needed
This guy is a noob. Clearly. Kerrigan is one of my preferred partner commanders because *M I N E R A L S* and I main stetmann and me and my brother (who mains dehaka) CURBSTOMPED a mutation ON HARD. And we could've beaten it on brutal. Also I carried several games as stetmann while the other guy acted like a bumbling noob.