Maps? Really? As if the place you play at is the only aspect of each mission? No. They are missions. Each of them have certain objectives. They are not just some place that you play on. They are levels with dynamics, not a place where you just 1v1 someone.
I like teammates that just take everything as a challenge and don't mind losing if I'm not playing that well. Because sometimes I choose something a little difficult and screw up, but it forces me to get better and it's more fun. It's just not fun playing the easier difficulties and roflstomping everything. Same when I get a teammate that is struggling, it's more challenging sure, but I just do my best to help and I don't mind losing just to see how far we can make it.
For Chain of Ascension on a slower commander - you can maximize your prep time before the first hybrid wave by not pushing her further than a few yards from the foot of the stairs. If your ally is trying to advance her too far just ignore them
Probably 70-80% of my games were on DoN. Just love the map, I wish there were more like it, because as much as I like it, playing the same map does get old. Defense focused + Lack of timer, would be what I am referring to when I say I want more missions like it, the unique enemies are also a really cool addition that spice things up, the boss monster enemy THE STANK, in particular is something I would have loved to see more of.
The one thing that I do not like about dead of night is the fact that you have little space to build your structures. With Han and Horner for example: it's a lot of fun to build and use the strategic strike platforms, but with the limited space plus your partner's structures, you are forced to build less of them.
I easily build 10 of them which is the cap, I can see it being an issue if you go p3 though. But on DoN those platforms are easily a priority, so they are the first things I build in a 5x2 after the tech requirements buildings/Galleons.
Vermillion is actually nice because its low stress, you don't need to rush constantly and ha e occasional breaks from enemy threat so you can put extra time into the base building.
@@MrWardonis But you have to be on point with your timing, if you screw up once and the lava rises again before you get to the expansion, gg it's over.
As someone said, feels more like a difficulty rather than quality tierlist. I think challenging maps can feel a lot more fun, but that might just be me
Psst, hey, I'd really reccomend going on the Arcade and giving 'nexus coop' a try, it's got a bunch of completely new commanders who work in a super special way. They still need a little tuning but they are all incredibly fun and I think you'd have a good time.
I actually love Temple of the Past and hate Dead of Night lol. It was interesting to see how you ranked missions based on difficulty as a measure of quality, I'm quite a different player to you so it's nice to see different opinions. :)
Agreed "Good" levels where basically: It's really easy. I love Temple of the Past because it forces me to act fast and efficiently, it's just such a fun challenge. Vermillion I kinda agree too, but it had also help me improve my timings when I was just starting to play, so 50/50
@@verruckter360 I also like temple of the past, the only thing I would like changed would be the enemies spawning into the middle of your base. We already got the attack waves from 3 directions, the additional flying attack wave from 4th direction as well as void thrashers, adding in enemies spawning in your base seems overboard.
How is night of the death s tier? It’s so fucking easy, it’s not even fun anymore. Also funny, how low you rank the maps that are a little harder and actually need a little skill even on brutal. Like literally evry map that is remotely hard on brutal is low tier. Amazed why you didn’t but train robbery there. I still love you tho, I just can’t remotely understand this list.
Just want to say I agree with the ranking of Vermillion problem, but only after Hard Diff. Hard Diff the enemy gets burrowed units (lurkers). The Lurkers ruin everything. Normal/Casual Vermillion Problem really isn't so bad. Not fun, but also not bad. Temple of the past is actually really fun when using Fenix or Karax, and should be a little higher in my opinion tbh. Maybe a C. Oblivion Express is great. Easily #1 mission. I am a Terran user for the most part though so I may be a bit biased. Malwarfare has good bonus objectives in my opinion, because all that you have to do is get within sight of them, which is super easy with some units (such as fast air, or cloaked). You can then start the process, and fly away with the air unit. Come back for the other two in about 20 and 40 seconds respectively. Last I checked you don't have to be there for it to finish downloading the personalities. Just to start the download. Main objective is also one of few that you can solo no matter what your teammate is doing. Lock and Load is not really a B because you can never solo. You need a lot of team coordination, and sometimes your teammate is just unable to get one stupid unit over there. Besides you can call down bunkers on top of the locks with Mengsk, and if you have enough mandate it makes it pretty simple to call down 4 bunkers on top of almost any lock. This is especially true if you are getting over 300 mandate per 240 seconds. You can use your abilities to clear the locks and drop 2-4 bunkers on each one. Too easy. More like a C mission Other than that you are spot on, and again that is just my opinion.
This is definetly a "i am too noob to play these maps" tierlist rather a fun/design-based one Lol specially cuz of your temple of the past analysis, it felt like u were going to give an A or S based on you saying how the bonus objectives were behind enemy lines and you had to deal with the voidspawn that pop every now and then, alongside with enemies appearing in the middle, imo this makes the map less boring and required more attention instead of just waiting for things to come to your defense line to die. which is exactly why i disagree on Terrazine map, its literally too boring for its own good, once you clear the initial defenses u just have to sit and wait those slow-ass robots do their work while you defend against 20 supply enemy waves while ur army has, like, 100 supply Lol
Look, I know this is ur list, but ur telling me Temple of the Past is F? As someone who loves defensive missions as well, there’s no way ur gonna tell me the bonus isn’t easy. The attack waves are obviously a lot, because where else are they gonna go? And, there’s a crap ton of time before a wave gets to the Temple, so getting units between the Temple and the wave will be so easy.
Favourite maps: Dead of the Night, Miner Evacuation; really fun to play, interesting rhythm with phases between attacking and defending. Least favourite map: Void Trashing; too fast, I barely get to have fun to get to my late game tech, and people love grinding this map so for some reason when I queue random map I get this about a quarter of the time and I'm sick of the map. Difficult maps: Vermillion (too many things to care about, avoid lava, micro workers, reassign workers, time limit etc.), Part and Parcel (time limit can be pretty crazy especially if you had a bump early game).
Temple of the past is my favorite map, especialy playing it with zeratul (hello void arrays instaobjective). But even with other commanders I always looking forward to play this map. Sometimes can be challenging though. What I hate the most is that stupid escort map where you have to pay for bonus objective. You pay both with resources and your army as well
You say in the video around the 2 minute mark that you linked a video about Hybrids, I cannot find it. Thanks for the content! I just discovered Starcraft 2 Coop about a week ago and have enjoyed watching your videos.
So because the enemies can circumvent your defenses, and you have to leave your defenses to attack make temple of the past F tier? Dead of Night has those same things... I am having trouble following this guy's logic on alot of these maps XD
You defend at night while attacking during the day so you don't get caught with your pants down I like dead of night because of how chill it is while I hate temple with it's too big choke points
Probably 70-80% of my games were on DoN. Just love the map, I wish there were more like it, because as much as I like it, playing the same map does get old. Defense focused + Lack of timer, would be what I am referring to when I say I want more missions like it, the unique enemies are also a really cool addition that spice things up, the boss monster enemy THE STANK, in particular is something I would have loved to see more of.
I agree with a lot of your tier list but cradle of death at A is too high. The truck mechanic is so annoying and if your ally is bad it’s a LOT harder to win. Also I don’t understand the hate on the Vermillion Problem. Once you learn the attack wave patterns and how to defend your base efficiently it’s a challenging and enjoyable map!
Dude the Vermillion problem is fucking terrible. You sit there every 3 minutes doing nothing waiting to play the game again because 80% of the map will instakill any of your units. Did you hide your overloards behind your base? Don't worry the lava will somehow burn them too. You have to tell your little miners to go fetch crystals every so often instead of getting to go out and kill things. You play stukov? Your army will die before the lava decides to go back to normal and you have to build it again every so often. This mission is just outright flawed from its core concept.
@@thehotdogman9317 Bruh, the Overlord thing should only happen ONCE in your life. Secondly even if you are playing as Stukov you just invest more into mech and air units than infantry. Lastly, if picking up minerals with SCVs is that difficult for you then Idk what to tell you because clearing out an area of enemies and then sending in a worker is not a big deal.
@@RushAnthem69 Well you tried to deflect but you failed. 1. A good part of Stukov' game play is sending in massive waves of cannon fodder with limited life span. The design of this map completely negates a third of Stukov's playstyle. Not that armor isn't viable, it's just not something I enjoy. No other co op level in this game impacts a commander's playstyle as much as this one affects Stukov's. 2. I didn't say telling an scv to go fetch crystals is hard. I said it was boring asf. Every time I play the mission, I just go squeeze as much fun as I can by go destroying the enemies on the map while my teamate has to be the one to play fetch like a dog for crystals. All while I sit like a duck everytime the lava raises. 3. Why does the lava affect flying units anyways? It's clearing not reaching them. Why do they burn anyways? Yes it only happened once but it shouldn't be happened at all. How dumb and immerse breaking is it to see overlords floating 200 feet above the lava catching fire and burning.
@@thehotdogman9317 1. I wasn’t deflecting at all lol. I tried to acknowledge every point you made, also Stukov LITERALLY HAS A MECH PRESTIGE. 2. That’s pretty crappy of you to leave it all up to him to get the 20 crystals. You sound like a bad co-op partner. 3. The lava only rises for like 30 seconds at a time? You make it sound like it’s 3 minutes at a time. 4. Lava affects flying units so flying units are not super OP. Plus if your units are moving they don’t get hit it’s only when they are stationary above the lava. 5. Normal is brain dead you don’t even need detectors for that difficulty. I can solo certain Brutal missions with certain commanders.
Of Part and Parcel, right before the last boss spawn, I normaly make a tons of turrrets (best if anti air) at the boss spawn. He can't even last for 10s
Personally, I think “in the dead of night” is the worst map of all of them. first of all, a map that is only fun to play with certain types of commanders (in this case defensive) should automatically not be S tier. A mission that forces certain commanders and play styles to succeed or have fun is automatically inferior to those which can be played and enjoyed with any commander. There are custom infested monsters that appear nowhere else in the game (this can add an unneeded learning curve and confusion for new players if done improperly. Most are well designed, so it’s fine), some of which are interesting and add to the game play while others detract from it. If you’re going to make custom units for a single mission, don’t put in ones that detract from gameplay. The worst offender of this by far is the choker which is fine to deal with in the late game, but if you’re playing a hero centric commander this single unit can easily shut down a third of your armies total power in the late game and disable your primary if not only fighting for us near the start of the mission. The heroic unit tag exists to ensure that heroes and elite units are not susceptible to hard cc spam and other anti-fun mechanics, so the chokers grapple/stun ability completely ignoring the heroic tag is an oversight in my opinion. The central base in which the players spawn in has a somewhat problematic map layout. In order to leave enough room to comfortably fit two players worth of production and tech structures, they had to make the walls far too thin. Comparing these walls that of the wings of liberty mission that this mission is based off of, the co-op mission centre base walls look like paper. This leads to the peculiar problem of enemy flying units accidentally Agro-ing from across the wall instead of joining any attack or skirmish waves they were intended to be a part of which can be particularly problematic against a tarran AI which fields an increased number of ravens and banshees on this mission. This problem can be solved by lining the inside of the wall with defensive structures like missile turrets, but the resource cost of defending your entire half of the wall on top of two attack lanes adds up quickly. This problem also works the other way where your flying units can be agro-ed and pulled outside the base, or in the case of overlords get shot at for being too close to the out side of the base when they move to their default position behind the mineral line. This particular problem can be fixed by just micromanaging your rally points and units better, but I shouldn’t have to do that in the first place. The map outside the base also has some problems. There is no distinction between infested structure filled areas and enemy AI bases, and they’re often bordering each other or even intermingled in some spots (there’s even a spot of infested structures in the top right of the map only accessible by moving through an enemy base!) this is problematic because the infested structure areas are designed to be easy to clear, but the enemy bases are defended by hybrid which are present at the start of the mission. As pointed out in the “Chains of Ascension” portion of the video, running into hybrid early can be game ending. Having to avoid and maneuver around heavily defended enemy base areas during the daytime when clearing in the early game, all with OUT any indication of where those areas are ensures that a player needs a complete understanding of the map layout to be able to play the mission properly. Sending out squads to clear areas without supervision and micro can result in that squad being wiped out by hybrid because they cleared their way into an enemy base due to its proximity to the area they were clearing. Many of the problems I have with this map can be solved by being a better player and just “playing around it”, but all missions should be doable by players of all skill levels so long as they’re playing on their appropriate difficulty. Unfortunately this mission does not adhere to that.
Indeed, The starting and only base each player gets sits in a weird in-between of a one base economy and the two basic economy. Not having two bases like in the temple defence mission is a little odd.
Temple of the past is the only one I occasionally loose on when I play brutal. Its super hard with han and horner because they clear an objective in the top right, then a worm pops on the opposite side and you just cant get there for like 30 seconds.
I might disagree with the Mist opportunities map. That last wave is SO boring. If it was only 4/4 waves I'd agree with your score. P.S.: Am I the only one who thinks the vermillion problem is fun? :D
I hate Scythe of Amon. It's definitely an F for me. Temple of the Past is a little bit more bearable when you can set your defenses. A bit more than the campaign's version, to be honest. But Scythe of Amon is way too annoying. Way too little time to do stuff, enemy waves are specislists in deleting your army, and the expansions are way too heavily guarded for their own good.
Totally hate Cradle of death. Otherwise, the only difficult maps are Chain of Ascension (if you survive the first hybrids, then it becomes easy) and Scythe of Amon (trying to do the bonus can get you into trouble).
I have probably failed Cradle more times to a teamate not paying attention than every other map combined. Nothing more frustrating than the area being clear and your teamate just not moving the truck 10 feet onto the point. It happens way too much. People are stupid.
With that zoom on the commanders you made it look like swann is an agressiv commander wich just made me laugh. I thoguht you were crazy but you refered to Zagara ( I atleast hope you did).
@@horizonbravov2188 But... why? You literally have access to both Siege Tanks and BC's, two outrageously broken units especially on this piss easy mission.
This list would be very different if you played brutal. Dead of night gets very tedious having to constantly rebuild defensive structures because theres almost no real way to kill stanks before they can break some defenses. And spotters, whooo boy.
The only thing I really disagree with is the hologram level. It can go to hell. It gets to hang out at the bottom with all the other trash. The map design blows
Putting Temple of the past in F seems a bit much, although they probably did add too many layers to the things attacking your temple, if they just got rid of the enemies dropping in on top of your base, I would be happy. Scyth of Amon is easily the worst level.
Amazing Video! I've one question: Is there any way to change the colour of troops and buildings in co-op mode? I have seen you using different colours eg. green for Swann but I can't find the settings to change it... Keep up with that great content!
U can't change the color itself, it's an option near the minimap who allow to change colors to make it easier to recognize allies troops and ennemies troops.
Cradle of Death is definitely d tier. Tales of the Past is A or B. Mal Warfare at B I would put Riftso'K above Malwarfare Scythe is C because it's a map that challenges you. Void Launch is a little too basic, it's only real catch is it's an AA map. A or B tier because your expansions are annoying to defend. Only thing I agree with is the S tiers, and maybe vermillion being the bottom.
Honestly, I adore Part and Parcel. I think it’s my favorite map. It’s less focused on pushing into massive bases and more about clearing your way around the entire map. The bonus is good in difficulty if you know the timing, and the boss fights are well designed in their challenge. Of course, this is all my own opinion. I also totally agree with oblivion express, such a good map!
I'm over a year late i know but i feel it was a bit unfair to rag on the Balius pilot lady for being annoying but not Stettman in mist opportunities. His constant screeching makes that level unbearable for me, and my personal pick for the worst mission outside of the vermillion problem (which i will not even try to defend).
Void thrashing or rifts to korhal is probably better for exp than dead of night due to clearing it in around 10-15 mins on avg. Scythe of Amon is casually my worst and the one I have the most losses on. I'm surprised you ranked rifts to korhal so low when Arcturus can just ESO and win
1st time playing vermillion which is what i assume to be the lava level, i ran my base thru the lava cause the stupid game told me to get to high ground so i as dehaka invaded middle with no workers, my base, and dehaka. yeah thanks a lot game for telling me a noob lava is coming evacuate to higher ground lol. i didnt know i started on high ground. my brother who was tychus and playing w me did not move and was like, where did your base go? LOL
I love miner evac but the map is too buggy.... When you get Hero of the storm, they not only never spawn... Instead of attack waves you get infested marine and they might as well never come to you... So in a B+6 you can get heros... And it turn into just brutal cuz they have a day off...
Imo the vermillion problem category needs to changed to Shit of Amon, seriously, fuck the scythe of Amon map, it is way to rushed, I never can save the bonus objective unless I play on normal or hard. Even after the map got some much needed buffs to the timers and bonus objectives it feels like someone still smeared shit on this map.
Timed objectives that can get you soft-locked out if if you don’t retrieve them before the lava hits, heavy defense that respawn around each of the crystals that you need to extract - which often enough spawn deep inside already intrenched enemy bases. And if you don’t go after them before the lava starts to arrive, they automatically turn into bonus attack waves that charge either your main or expansion. And this is added on top of the already frequently recurring attack waves that separately target both your expansion and main - and amplified by the limited mobility of your army between the lava surges that prevent ground travel plus the lava spouts that can just evaporate your air army and make going back and forth from attacking to defending extremely risky. Also Donny’s commentary… not related to the difficulty but so annoying that it’s pretty much become a meme lol It’s hard for pretty much every commander and requires a lot of teamwork between your partner to balance between going after objectives and defending. Soloing on this map on higher difficulties like hard or brutal is extremely difficult. The bonus is also very far away, you have to go out of your way to punch through the enemy lines just to fight it - and it can only be fought in between short intervals when the lava comes - which is just icing on the already infuriating cake. Generally agreed by most to be the most difficult co-op mission, although I personally hate Amon’s Scythe more due to pretty much requiring picking aggressive commanders to get through it
Honestly a bad list in terms of ranking them for fun, though I agree that vermilion problem is vexing. The shorter maps are more fun in general and unless talking about mutations with random people all are very easy and soloable
Maybe its just me, but i've always hated Mist Opportunities. I think mostly because of how whiny stettmann gets if something so much as scratches his bots. Like, yes, I hear you, I'm actively defending them, can you PLEASE shut the hell up????
honestly hate cradle of death, my dad and I have been playing coop since it launched, and Ive been playing since WoL launched, the only mission we consistently skip is cradle of death because of how clunky the trucks feel and how little enjoyment we get from the mission, as it is just boring
lmao. Vermillion Problem, pfff. . . . Well, it sucks anyway, since the lava and the enemies are fuqin insane and annoying. As for ear-raping, both DOnKy Vermillion and Stetman are both annoying tbh. So yea, this level sucks.
Seems like you just ranked the easy missions at the top and the difficult ones on the bottom. I would leave a dislike, but for that acceptable casualties line at the end since I'm a mengsk player, so no dislike.
I disagree on almost all you said. Especially about Dead of Night, Vermillion Problem and Train Mission. Dead of Night: Really boring. For me as someone who's just now reached Level 100 Mastery this Mission is just not up to par. Most times I even have to hold myself back to not finish it before the 3rd night in Order to get the Bonus, that doesn't spawn fast enough. Enemy Defences are practically non existant, except for Lurkers if you have Zerg enemies. Enemy Attack waves do not matter what so ever since there is exactly one, before the 3rd night. So you're under no Pressure what so ever and I dare to say that 2 "Offensive" Commanders as you'd like to call them are better suited for this mission. Since it increases the speed at which you can do the mission tenfold. Even if I can clear the whole map alone on Brutal with most commanders before the 3rd night. Easily a D-tier mission which only is saved by how many buildings you need to destroy in order not to fall asleep. Vermillion Problem: Actually pretty solid imo. Many enemy attack waves that apply pressure towards you, which is always a plus -> more things to do. Crystals that spawn semi randomly further away from the mainbase that push you to the outer edges of the map, with a bit of worker management, really not that bad. Oh and the Crystals 14-20 are actually pretty well defended, making for a challenge in the later stages of the map. Add to that Donny as the narrator, which is just funny imo, and you have a pretty great Level. A on my List. Trains: Sitting in the middle of the mission with lackluster Attack waves and objectives that actually move towards you is just kinda lame. You get economy up way too quickly and can outpace every enemy the game throws at you easily. In most matches I end up clearing the entire left side of the map just to end the last train 1 minute earlier. -w- Probably a C- to D. In general I disagree with the notion of sitting back and defending as a fun mechanic. Yes, there are Commanders more suited to defense than others. Doesn't mean you have to steal both of our times sitting at the base and doing practically nothing but to destroy the one or two waves of infested that come to the base in Dead of Night, with everything you have. Even someone as Defensive as Karax can attack with lower numbers because of Top Bar abilities. In conclusion; I think that this Tierlist doesn't really represent either Quality of the missions, nor their fun factor, which you should have specified. But instead focuses on your personal preferences, which I don't agree with. Have a like for your effort tho.
I guess there's gotta be that one guy who thinks the annoying reporter is actually funny who probably doesn't get invited to parties for having such a low sense of humor.
@@thehotdogman9317 No need to make it personal. If that's all you have to say to a structured comment actually explaining a different viewpoint, no one will take you serious. Humor is subjective. As is this tier list. Some people like 420 blaze-it Terrazine addict, some people like Reporter that tries to hard. So what?
Vermillion problem doesn't give you more things to do. It forces you to micro your farmers on fetch commands. It makes you sit still doing nothing at times. It features a narrator worthy of far cry levels of cringe talking at you every couple of seconds. It has a small ramp that goes up to your base that isn't hard to defend at all if you have access to bunkers or photon cannons and doesn't really change the dynamic of the mission at all.
I always call them call them "maps" not levels. Also, would love to see a "types of teammate" ranking, with tryhard, pranker, etc.
Maps? Really? As if the place you play at is the only aspect of each mission? No. They are missions. Each of them have certain objectives. They are not just some place that you play on. They are levels with dynamics, not a place where you just 1v1 someone.
they are literal levels thou ^^
I like teammates that just take everything as a challenge and don't mind losing if I'm not playing that well. Because sometimes I choose something a little difficult and screw up, but it forces me to get better and it's more fun. It's just not fun playing the easier difficulties and roflstomping everything. Same when I get a teammate that is struggling, it's more challenging sure, but I just do my best to help and I don't mind losing just to see how far we can make it.
For Chain of Ascension on a slower commander - you can maximize your prep time before the first hybrid wave by not pushing her further than a few yards from the foot of the stairs. If your ally is trying to advance her too far just ignore them
This saved my bacon on the mutation.
And to include that if you play as alarak it also has new lines when you play it
I agree Dead of Night is S tier mission, also just so fun to play on.
i use zeratul p2 n farm artifak until 100 n let.photon cannon op kill the zombie
Probably 70-80% of my games were on DoN. Just love the map, I wish there were more like it, because as much as I like it, playing the same map does get old.
Defense focused + Lack of timer, would be what I am referring to when I say I want more missions like it, the unique enemies are also a really cool addition that spice things up, the boss monster enemy THE STANK, in particular is something I would have loved to see more of.
I love miner evacuation because of the mission it's based on, one of the most unique campaign missions ever
good to know you still active, i love your gameplay style and how you explain, keep up good work
The Rifts to Korhal is beyond S tier, it is the greatest level for xp farming due to it having the fastest possible completion speed.
The one thing that I do not like about dead of night is the fact that you have little space to build your structures.
With Han and Horner for example: it's a lot of fun to build and use the strategic strike platforms, but with the limited space plus your partner's structures, you are forced to build less of them.
I easily build 10 of them which is the cap, I can see it being an issue if you go p3 though. But on DoN those platforms are easily a priority, so they are the first things I build in a 5x2 after the tech requirements buildings/Galleons.
I initially thought Scythe of Amon was the worst. Then this video reminded me of the Vermillion Problem.
Yeah, pretty much. LOL!
Vermillion is actually nice because its low stress, you don't need to rush constantly and ha e occasional breaks from enemy threat so you can put extra time into the base building.
Agreed. Never really liked Scythe of Amon due to me having to rush constantly and sometimes my co-op partner wasn't experienced enough to help out.
@@MrWardonis But you have to be on point with your timing, if you screw up once and the lava rises again before you get to the expansion, gg it's over.
@@RickySama240Experienced enough? My co-op partner wasn't online enough last time I rolled this map.
As someone said, feels more like a difficulty rather than quality tierlist. I think challenging maps can feel a lot more fun, but that might just be me
No, no. I do too. Scythe of Amon which probably is the hardest mission together with the Truck mission, would probably get an A on my list.
Agreed. I don't get how he conflates "easy" with fun, at least in my case, I play the game to be challenged, not to sit back and A-move once or twice
@@cottoncandy3577 The truck mission (Cradle of Death) is actually not that hard. Rifts of Korhal is worse.
@@Arrows_Of_Doom what? Rifts to Corhal is an A tier map.
3:03 "you instantly die"- while showing footage of easily winning the map. :) Also, I like the reference to fenix in the description
Cradle of Death being anything other than F tier is heresy.
Psst, hey, I'd really reccomend going on the Arcade and giving 'nexus coop' a try, it's got a bunch of completely new commanders who work in a super special way. They still need a little tuning but they are all incredibly fun and I think you'd have a good time.
I actually love Temple of the Past and hate Dead of Night lol. It was interesting to see how you ranked missions based on difficulty as a measure of quality, I'm quite a different player to you so it's nice to see different opinions. :)
Agreed
"Good" levels where basically: It's really easy. I love Temple of the Past because it forces me to act fast and efficiently, it's just such a fun challenge.
Vermillion I kinda agree too, but it had also help me improve my timings when I was just starting to play, so 50/50
@@verruckter360 I also like temple of the past, the only thing I would like changed would be the enemies spawning into the middle of your base. We already got the attack waves from 3 directions, the additional flying attack wave from 4th direction as well as void thrashers, adding in enemies spawning in your base seems overboard.
How is night of the death s tier? It’s so fucking easy, it’s not even fun anymore.
Also funny, how low you rank the maps that are a little harder and actually need a little skill even on brutal. Like literally evry map that is remotely hard on brutal is low tier. Amazed why you didn’t but train robbery there. I still love you tho, I just can’t remotely understand this list.
Before i started watching i said to myself Vermillion problem has to be at the bottom. You went past my expectations.
i quit vermilion,take much time
Just want to say I agree with the ranking of Vermillion problem, but only after Hard Diff. Hard Diff the enemy gets burrowed units (lurkers). The Lurkers ruin everything. Normal/Casual Vermillion Problem really isn't so bad. Not fun, but also not bad.
Temple of the past is actually really fun when using Fenix or Karax, and should be a little higher in my opinion tbh. Maybe a C.
Oblivion Express is great. Easily #1 mission. I am a Terran user for the most part though so I may be a bit biased.
Malwarfare has good bonus objectives in my opinion, because all that you have to do is get within sight of them, which is super easy with some units (such as fast air, or cloaked). You can then start the process, and fly away with the air unit. Come back for the other two in about 20 and 40 seconds respectively. Last I checked you don't have to be there for it to finish downloading the personalities. Just to start the download. Main objective is also one of few that you can solo no matter what your teammate is doing.
Lock and Load is not really a B because you can never solo. You need a lot of team coordination, and sometimes your teammate is just unable to get one stupid unit over there. Besides you can call down bunkers on top of the locks with Mengsk, and if you have enough mandate it makes it pretty simple to call down 4 bunkers on top of almost any lock. This is especially true if you are getting over 300 mandate per 240 seconds. You can use your abilities to clear the locks and drop 2-4 bunkers on each one. Too easy. More like a C mission
Other than that you are spot on, and again that is just my opinion.
This is definetly a "i am too noob to play these maps" tierlist rather a fun/design-based one Lol
specially cuz of your temple of the past analysis, it felt like u were going to give an A or S based on you saying how the bonus objectives were behind enemy lines and you had to deal with the voidspawn that pop every now and then, alongside with enemies appearing in the middle, imo this makes the map less boring and required more attention instead of just waiting for things to come to your defense line to die.
which is exactly why i disagree on Terrazine map, its literally too boring for its own good, once you clear the initial defenses u just have to sit and wait those slow-ass robots do their work while you defend against 20 supply enemy waves while ur army has, like, 100 supply Lol
He ranked cradle of death as high ranking so I'm not surprised.
I enjoyed your Co-op commander tier list video and definitely enjoyed this one as well!~ :D
Look, I know this is ur list, but ur telling me Temple of the Past is F? As someone who loves defensive missions as well, there’s no way ur gonna tell me the bonus isn’t easy. The attack waves are obviously a lot, because where else are they gonna go? And, there’s a crap ton of time before a wave gets to the Temple, so getting units between the Temple and the wave will be so easy.
Iagree with vermilion problem... But mist opportunities should be in that abyss with it.
Favourite maps: Dead of the Night, Miner Evacuation; really fun to play, interesting rhythm with phases between attacking and defending.
Least favourite map: Void Trashing; too fast, I barely get to have fun to get to my late game tech, and people love grinding this map so for some reason when I queue random map I get this about a quarter of the time and I'm sick of the map.
Difficult maps: Vermillion (too many things to care about, avoid lava, micro workers, reassign workers, time limit etc.), Part and Parcel (time limit can be pretty crazy especially if you had a bump early game).
Temple of the past is my favorite map, especialy playing it with zeratul (hello void arrays instaobjective). But even with other commanders I always looking forward to play this map. Sometimes can be challenging though.
What I hate the most is that stupid escort map where you have to pay for bonus objective. You pay both with resources and your army as well
I used to only play the train map
You say in the video around the 2 minute mark that you linked a video about Hybrids, I cannot find it. Thanks for the content! I just discovered Starcraft 2 Coop about a week ago and have enjoyed watching your videos.
So because the enemies can circumvent your defenses, and you have to leave your defenses to attack make temple of the past F tier?
Dead of Night has those same things...
I am having trouble following this guy's logic on alot of these maps XD
You defend at night while attacking during the day so you don't get caught with your pants down
I like dead of night because of how chill it is while I hate temple with it's too big choke points
.....annnnd you're back!! Yay!
Probably 70-80% of my games were on DoN. Just love the map, I wish there were more like it, because as much as I like it, playing the same map does get old.
Defense focused + Lack of timer, would be what I am referring to when I say I want more missions like it, the unique enemies are also a really cool addition that spice things up, the boss monster enemy THE STANK, in particular is something I would have loved to see more of.
I wish blizzard would make more.
I agree with a lot of your tier list but cradle of death at A is too high.
The truck mechanic is so annoying and if your ally is bad it’s a LOT harder to win.
Also I don’t understand the hate on the Vermillion Problem. Once you learn the attack wave patterns and how to defend your base efficiently it’s a challenging and enjoyable map!
Dude the Vermillion problem is fucking terrible. You sit there every 3 minutes doing nothing waiting to play the game again because 80% of the map will instakill any of your units. Did you hide your overloards behind your base? Don't worry the lava will somehow burn them too. You have to tell your little miners to go fetch crystals every so often instead of getting to go out and kill things. You play stukov? Your army will die before the lava decides to go back to normal and you have to build it again every so often. This mission is just outright flawed from its core concept.
@@thehotdogman9317 Bruh, the Overlord thing should only happen ONCE in your life.
Secondly even if you are playing as Stukov you just invest more into mech and air units than infantry.
Lastly, if picking up minerals with SCVs is that difficult for you then Idk what to tell you because clearing out an area of enemies and then sending in a worker is not a big deal.
@@RushAnthem69 Well you tried to deflect but you failed.
1. A good part of Stukov' game play is sending in massive waves of cannon fodder with limited life span. The design of this map completely negates a third of Stukov's playstyle. Not that armor isn't viable, it's just not something I enjoy. No other co op level in this game impacts a commander's playstyle as much as this one affects Stukov's.
2. I didn't say telling an scv to go fetch crystals is hard. I said it was boring asf. Every time I play the mission, I just go squeeze as much fun as I can by go destroying the enemies on the map while my teamate has to be the one to play fetch like a dog for crystals. All while I sit like a duck everytime the lava raises.
3. Why does the lava affect flying units anyways? It's clearing not reaching them. Why do they burn anyways? Yes it only happened once but it shouldn't be happened at all. How dumb and immerse breaking is it to see overlords floating 200 feet above the lava catching fire and burning.
@@RushAnthem69 At the end of the day, they're co op missions. I could beat any mission with any commander on Normal. Difficulty is never a concern.
@@thehotdogman9317 1. I wasn’t deflecting at all lol. I tried to acknowledge every point you made, also Stukov LITERALLY HAS A MECH PRESTIGE.
2. That’s pretty crappy of you to leave it all up to him to get the 20 crystals. You sound like a bad co-op partner.
3. The lava only rises for like 30 seconds at a time? You make it sound like it’s 3 minutes at a time.
4. Lava affects flying units so flying units are not super OP. Plus if your units are moving they don’t get hit it’s only when they are stationary above the lava.
5. Normal is brain dead you don’t even need detectors for that difficulty. I can solo certain Brutal missions with certain commanders.
Of Part and Parcel, right before the last boss spawn, I normaly make a tons of turrrets (best if anti air) at the boss spawn. He can't even last for 10s
Void thrashing gets an "A" rank for the chest that blizzard put on that girl
Yeah, Sergeant Hammer is pretty hot and has peak southern tomboy energy.
Personally, I think “in the dead of night” is the worst map of all of them.
first of all, a map that is only fun to play with certain types of commanders (in this case defensive) should automatically not be S tier. A mission that forces certain commanders and play styles to succeed or have fun is automatically inferior to those which can be played and enjoyed with any commander.
There are custom infested monsters that appear nowhere else in the game (this can add an unneeded learning curve and confusion for new players if done improperly. Most are well designed, so it’s fine), some of which are interesting and add to the game play while others detract from it. If you’re going to make custom units for a single mission, don’t put in ones that detract from gameplay. The worst offender of this by far is the choker which is fine to deal with in the late game, but if you’re playing a hero centric commander this single unit can easily shut down a third of your armies total power in the late game and disable your primary if not only fighting for us near the start of the mission. The heroic unit tag exists to ensure that heroes and elite units are not susceptible to hard cc spam and other anti-fun mechanics, so the chokers grapple/stun ability completely ignoring the heroic tag is an oversight in my opinion.
The central base in which the players spawn in has a somewhat problematic map layout.
In order to leave enough room to comfortably fit two players worth of production and tech structures, they had to make the walls far too thin. Comparing these walls that of the wings of liberty mission that this mission is based off of, the co-op mission centre base walls look like paper. This leads to the peculiar problem of enemy flying units accidentally Agro-ing from across the wall instead of joining any attack or skirmish waves they were intended to be a part of which can be particularly problematic against a tarran AI which fields an increased number of ravens and banshees on this mission. This problem can be solved by lining the inside of the wall with defensive structures like missile turrets, but the resource cost of defending your entire half of the wall on top of two attack lanes adds up quickly.
This problem also works the other way where your flying units can be agro-ed and pulled outside the base, or in the case of overlords get shot at for being too close to the out side of the base when they move to their default position behind the mineral line.
This particular problem can be fixed by just micromanaging your rally points and units better, but I shouldn’t have to do that in the first place.
The map outside the base also has some problems. There is no distinction between infested structure filled areas and enemy AI bases, and they’re often bordering each other or even intermingled in some spots (there’s even a spot of infested structures in the top right of the map only accessible by moving through an enemy base!) this is problematic because the infested structure areas are designed to be easy to clear, but the enemy bases are defended by hybrid which are present at the start of the mission. As pointed out in the “Chains of Ascension” portion of the video, running into hybrid early can be game ending.
Having to avoid and maneuver around heavily defended enemy base areas during the daytime when clearing in the early game, all with OUT any indication of where those areas are ensures that a player needs a complete understanding of the map layout to be able to play the mission properly. Sending out squads to clear areas without supervision and micro can result in that squad being wiped out by hybrid because they cleared their way into an enemy base due to its proximity to the area they were clearing.
Many of the problems I have with this map can be solved by being a better player and just “playing around it”, but all missions should be doable by players of all skill levels so long as they’re playing on their appropriate difficulty. Unfortunately this mission does not adhere to that.
Don't forget that each player only gets 3 geysers which is extremely hard for some commanders
Indeed, The starting and only base each player gets sits in a weird in-between of a one base economy and the two basic economy. Not having two bases like in the temple defence mission is a little odd.
I'd say if ur on hard and have void launch it belongs at F because hybrid come om the first attack wave
Temple of the past is the only one I occasionally loose on when I play brutal. Its super hard with han and horner because they clear an objective in the top right, then a worm pops on the opposite side and you just cant get there for like 30 seconds.
Totally agree with S tier and F tier missions. Only disagree with cradle of death: I think it's C tier
Cool vid, still waiting for the “ways to kill somebody ranked” video tho.
I might disagree with the Mist opportunities map.
That last wave is SO boring. If it was only 4/4 waves I'd agree with your score.
P.S.: Am I the only one who thinks the vermillion problem is fun? :D
I hate Scythe of Amon. It's definitely an F for me. Temple of the Past is a little bit more bearable when you can set your defenses. A bit more than the campaign's version, to be honest. But Scythe of Amon is way too annoying. Way too little time to do stuff, enemy waves are specislists in deleting your army, and the expansions are way too heavily guarded for their own good.
Dead of Night is fun, until hunterlings start spawning at day 1
Totally hate Cradle of death.
Otherwise, the only difficult maps are Chain of Ascension (if you survive the first hybrids, then it becomes easy) and Scythe of Amon (trying to do the bonus can get you into trouble).
I have probably failed Cradle more times to a teamate not paying attention than every other map combined. Nothing more frustrating than the area being clear and your teamate just not moving the truck 10 feet onto the point. It happens way too much. People are stupid.
A 100K subscriber tier youtuber with only 3K subs because he is covering a dead game... I love your sc2 coop stuff man
Need more of your starcrack videos mate. Me and my son love em
btw there's no link for the mengsk vid on the train mission, when you say there should be one on top of the vid
What is exp farming? Do you mean for like leveling up commanders or is there another use for exp?
Yeah, he meant grinding leader levels
Imo, Chains of Ascension with random allies is prolly the least consistent map. You never know what to expect lol.
With that zoom on the commanders you made it look like swann is an agressiv commander wich just made me laugh. I thoguht you were crazy but you refered to Zagara ( I atleast hope you did).
Welcome to the land of cheese
Raynor's vultures can destroy the trains if you have enough spider mines
@@horizonbravov2188 But... why? You literally have access to both Siege Tanks and BC's, two outrageously broken units especially on this piss easy mission.
It's just fun using the vultures
I never found someone who loves dead as night just as much as me
This list would be very different if you played brutal. Dead of night gets very tedious having to constantly rebuild defensive structures because theres almost no real way to kill stanks before they can break some defenses. And spotters, whooo boy.
Amazing
I literally only ever played and still sometimes just lock in Temple of the Past
The only thing I really disagree with is the hologram level. It can go to hell. It gets to hang out at the bottom with all the other trash. The map design blows
Hologram?
Toxicspill!!!!!
Putting Temple of the past in F seems a bit much, although they probably did add too many layers to the things attacking your temple, if they just got rid of the enemies dropping in on top of your base, I would be happy.
Scyth of Amon is easily the worst level.
Nice
Amazing Video!
I've one question: Is there any way to change the colour of troops and buildings in co-op mode? I have seen you using different colours eg. green for Swann but I can't find the settings to change it... Keep up with that great content!
U can't change the color itself, it's an option near the minimap who allow to change colors to make it easier to recognize allies troops and ennemies troops.
thanks
5:03 I love this map actually it really is interesting
Cradle of Death is definitely d tier.
Tales of the Past is A or B.
Mal Warfare at B
I would put Riftso'K above Malwarfare
Scythe is C because it's a map that challenges you.
Void Launch is a little too basic, it's only real catch is it's an AA map. A or B tier because your expansions are annoying to defend.
Only thing I agree with is the S tiers, and maybe vermillion being the bottom.
Honestly, I adore Part and Parcel. I think it’s my favorite map. It’s less focused on pushing into massive bases and more about clearing your way around the entire map. The bonus is good in difficulty if you know the timing, and the boss fights are well designed in their challenge. Of course, this is all my own opinion. I also totally agree with oblivion express, such a good map!
The Dead of Night is easily my favorite mission,well cradle of death is my least favorite.
I'm over a year late i know but i feel it was a bit unfair to rag on the Balius pilot lady for being annoying but not Stettman in mist opportunities. His constant screeching makes that level unbearable for me, and my personal pick for the worst mission outside of the vermillion problem (which i will not even try to defend).
14:36 My firebots are laughing in 460 hp
Void thrashing or rifts to korhal is probably better for exp than dead of night due to clearing it in around 10-15 mins on avg. Scythe of Amon is casually my worst and the one I have the most losses on.
I'm surprised you ranked rifts to korhal so low when Arcturus can just ESO and win
ty i love you
i feel the same way about the vermillion
1st time playing vermillion which is what i assume to be the lava level, i ran my base thru the lava cause the stupid game told me to get to high ground so i as dehaka invaded middle with no workers, my base, and dehaka. yeah thanks a lot game for telling me a noob lava is coming evacuate to higher ground lol. i didnt know i started on high ground. my brother who was tychus and playing w me did not move and was like, where did your base go? LOL
If you play the campaign it becomes a lot more obvious, and a lot of the other missions make more sense.
I love miner evac but the map is too buggy.... When you get Hero of the storm, they not only never spawn... Instead of attack waves you get infested marine and they might as well never come to you... So in a B+6 you can get heros... And it turn into just brutal cuz they have a day off...
Imo the vermillion problem category needs to changed to Shit of Amon, seriously, fuck the scythe of Amon map, it is way to rushed, I never can save the bonus objective unless I play on normal or hard. Even after the map got some much needed buffs to the timers and bonus objectives it feels like someone still smeared shit on this map.
My neighbors dog is cringe
ty
Well you did say Kerrigan was trash. And she is definitely not trash.
Malwarfare seems impossible depending on the build. The bonus objectives are too hard
vermillion problem is the BEST mission i dont understand whats wrong with it?
I was wondering, if i am the odd one, or is my friend the odd one... Why does everyone hate the vermilions problem?
Ballius mission F teir, General Davis is an ingrate
How to purchase commanders
Why is that vermillion problem is the worst? (New to the game btw) is it because of too many ramp and enermy?
Timed objectives that can get you soft-locked out if if you don’t retrieve them before the lava hits, heavy defense that respawn around each of the crystals that you need to extract - which often enough spawn deep inside already intrenched enemy bases. And if you don’t go after them before the lava starts to arrive, they automatically turn into bonus attack waves that charge either your main or expansion. And this is added on top of the already frequently recurring attack waves that separately target both your expansion and main - and amplified by the limited mobility of your army between the lava surges that prevent ground travel plus the lava spouts that can just evaporate your air army and make going back and forth from attacking to defending extremely risky.
Also Donny’s commentary… not related to the difficulty but so annoying that it’s pretty much become a meme lol
It’s hard for pretty much every commander and requires a lot of teamwork between your partner to balance between going after objectives and defending. Soloing on this map on higher difficulties like hard or brutal is extremely difficult. The bonus is also very far away, you have to go out of your way to punch through the enemy lines just to fight it - and it can only be fought in between short intervals when the lava comes - which is just icing on the already infuriating cake.
Generally agreed by most to be the most difficult co-op mission, although I personally hate Amon’s Scythe more due to pretty much requiring picking aggressive commanders to get through it
Honestly a bad list in terms of ranking them for fun, though I agree that vermilion problem is vexing.
The shorter maps are more fun in general and unless talking about mutations with random people all are very easy and soloable
Soloable? How do you play Co-Op solo? Is there a setting for it?
Hi I'm back
Controversial take: Nerf Mengsk's artillery.
The Artillery are kinda his main deal. Besides they aren't accurate anyway.
NOOOoOOO donnie vermillion will be mad
Maybe its just me, but i've always hated Mist Opportunities. I think mostly because of how whiny stettmann gets if something so much as scratches his bots. Like, yes, I hear you, I'm actively defending them, can you PLEASE shut the hell up????
honestly hate cradle of death, my dad and I have been playing coop since it launched, and Ive been playing since WoL launched, the only mission we consistently skip is cradle of death because of how clunky the trucks feel and how little enjoyment we get from the mission, as it is just boring
with mutators
the lvl difficult change
second part pls
5:16 You don't have to explain yourself it is obvius!!!
Meh... I personally find Dead of the Night the most boring one... attack and defend, rinse and repeat.
Dead of night is my favorite
Wait actually the temple one is my favirite
Dead of night for xp farming due to defense??? Naw man
you never have played dead of night on brutal, third night always gets me and my teammates, we have to speedrun it, but still it is my favorite level
Lol
lmao. Vermillion Problem, pfff.
.
.
.
Well, it sucks anyway, since the lava and the enemies are fuqin insane and annoying. As for ear-raping, both DOnKy Vermillion and Stetman are both annoying tbh. So yea, this level sucks.
Seems like you just ranked the easy missions at the top and the difficult ones on the bottom. I would leave a dislike, but for that acceptable casualties line at the end since I'm a mengsk player, so no dislike.
Cradle of death is ass. I'd rather do Temple of the past any day
Y esto pasa cuando un novato califica la dificultad de las misiones.
Cradle of death is the best for speed leveling
As someone who judges commanders off of dead of night performance
I disagree on almost all you said. Especially about Dead of Night, Vermillion Problem and Train Mission.
Dead of Night: Really boring. For me as someone who's just now reached Level 100 Mastery this Mission is just not up to par. Most times I even have to hold myself back to not finish it before the 3rd night in Order to get the Bonus, that doesn't spawn fast enough. Enemy Defences are practically non existant, except for Lurkers if you have Zerg enemies. Enemy Attack waves do not matter what so ever since there is exactly one, before the 3rd night. So you're under no Pressure what so ever and I dare to say that 2 "Offensive" Commanders as you'd like to call them are better suited for this mission. Since it increases the speed at which you can do the mission tenfold. Even if I can clear the whole map alone on Brutal with most commanders before the 3rd night. Easily a D-tier mission which only is saved by how many buildings you need to destroy in order not to fall asleep.
Vermillion Problem: Actually pretty solid imo. Many enemy attack waves that apply pressure towards you, which is always a plus -> more things to do. Crystals that spawn semi randomly further away from the mainbase that push you to the outer edges of the map, with a bit of worker management, really not that bad. Oh and the Crystals 14-20 are actually pretty well defended, making for a challenge in the later stages of the map. Add to that Donny as the narrator, which is just funny imo, and you have a pretty great Level. A on my List.
Trains: Sitting in the middle of the mission with lackluster Attack waves and objectives that actually move towards you is just kinda lame. You get economy up way too quickly and can outpace every enemy the game throws at you easily. In most matches I end up clearing the entire left side of the map just to end the last train 1 minute earlier. -w- Probably a C- to D.
In general I disagree with the notion of sitting back and defending as a fun mechanic. Yes, there are Commanders more suited to defense than others. Doesn't mean you have to steal both of our times sitting at the base and doing practically nothing but to destroy the one or two waves of infested that come to the base in Dead of Night, with everything you have. Even someone as Defensive as Karax can attack with lower numbers because of Top Bar abilities.
In conclusion; I think that this Tierlist doesn't really represent either Quality of the missions, nor their fun factor, which you should have specified. But instead focuses on your personal preferences, which I don't agree with. Have a like for your effort tho.
I guess there's gotta be that one guy who thinks the annoying reporter is actually funny who probably doesn't get invited to parties for having such a low sense of humor.
@@thehotdogman9317 No need to make it personal. If that's all you have to say to a structured comment actually explaining a different viewpoint, no one will take you serious.
Humor is subjective. As is this tier list. Some people like 420 blaze-it Terrazine addict, some people like Reporter that tries to hard. So what?
@@cottoncandy3577 I'm pretty sure anyone who finds Stetmann yelling in your ears entertaining on the bot escort mission is mentally handicapped.
Vermillion problem doesn't give you more things to do. It forces you to micro your farmers on fetch commands. It makes you sit still doing nothing at times. It features a narrator worthy of far cry levels of cringe talking at you every couple of seconds. It has a small ramp that goes up to your base that isn't hard to defend at all if you have access to bunkers or photon cannons and doesn't really change the dynamic of the mission at all.
I'm also guessing you beat trains on Brutal+ 6 with your hands tied behind your back every time you play it if you find it so easy.