The only thing I dislike about how tomboys are portrayed in media is that most of the time they openly encourage girls to look down on or even make fun of others who do honestly enjoy traditionally feminine things or activities
I also dislike that it only encourages a certain type of tomboy as acceptable, one that's always straight ultimately and one that's considered abnormal by the world at large as if being a girl is one way experience.
The only thing I dislike about how girly girls are portrayed in media is that most of the time they openly encourage girls to look down on or even make fun of tomboys.
I think for years my family of tomboys wanted me to be one too. Turns out tomboy and girly are dumb ideas. People are just people and everyone is a little bit of every trope.
@@tionnajohnson8430 Yeah. And I think the idea of fitting in one place is also harmful. It stops growth in different areas because a person thinks welp I can't do that. These ideas are very limiting and I hate it when people try to fit others in boxes that should only exist in movies. You have a lot of different things so you are a well rounded person which is awesome!!
I like tomboys as long as they are not portrayed as inherently better then girly girls. or look down on them. Its one of the reasons why I dislike show Arya as oppose to book Arya.
Yo, that is true. They almost universally look down on girly girls for some reason. Maybe because our western culture in general subtly shames things girls of a young teenage tend to be into. For example; Twilight wasn't even so bad as far as books like that go. I think that girl demographic had a lot to do with it. People are weird.
Toph was such a great tomboy character because it served her actual character traits- she's an earth bender which is an inherently tougher element that requires more force and a steadfast demeanor. She's blind and people underestimate and coddle her, which has forced her to work harder to prove that she doesn't need anyone's help, that she isn't a "delicate flower". She comes from money and high society and knows how to "act properly" but actively chooses not to, and her story never actually references that in the context of her needing to change but allowing her to play the role when it suits her and be herself when it doesn't. Her rejection of the high society life is because of the fakeness of it all not just I don't like dresses. She's a tomboy without tomboy being a defining or pinnacle character trait because her character is allowed to be multi-faceted.
Yea, although my favorite part about her was in the exposiode where she put on make up and liked that too. Wanting to be pretty and liking make-up are not weak in any way and are just interests anyone, tough or gentle, can have. Same with katara, she was also really strong and tough but didn't have to be mean about it, another stereotypical tomboy guy thing
Oh I love the female protagonists in Avatar. We have tomboy toph and more feminine Katara, and yet both are powerful in their own ways without their personalities changing or being perceived as bad.
I like how tomboys can be empowering by expressing their individuality but what I really don't like is when some 'tomboys' say that girls are too much drama and she likes hanging out only with guys... It's again kinda like the 'not like other girls thing'. It's not necessary to disregard traditional femininity... In the end, it's all about being free to be yourself without tearing others down and celebrating our differences.
That's why I'd love them to do a video dissecting the "girly girl" trope because it's extremely insulting: it basically says being "traditionally femmenine" means all you care about is boys, fahsion and shopping, thus you're shallow, judgemental and unintelligent. Women are put into boxes, and it's taken us centuries to find our way out!
pixiebells I feel the ‘not like other girls’ only has male friends for lack of ‘drama’ isn’t a tomboy. And what she is, I have a feeling has been mentioned in one of these videos ages back ? Might be wrong . That girl doesn’t always reject make up and feminity in the same way because they are often still set on being desirable as well as accepted by the guys I think. I was a tomboy as a kid. Probably due to growing up with a single dad . I remember thinking adventurous types like Peter Pan or Tom sawyer were so damn cool. To be fair how can you compare Wendy to pan ?! And the only woman Tom and huck come across is a nagging middle aged aunt. Girls are almost always dreadful in just William too... anyone else a fan of these ? As a teen had friends both male and female and found more female role models and clothes. But I remember a close male friend when we were about 16-18 so no that young saying he had few female friends, when I offered myself he was like ‘oh you don’t count as a girl... in a good way’ it hurt my feelings way more than he understood or I was mature enough to explain
Damn, I had that phase 8 years ago. Everyone got into puberty and started with makeup, boys and whatever and I just wanted to play my video games after school. I only had my best friend (as a female friend) and boys. I‘m so glad I grew out of that phase and started to open up. I hate it, that years after that it is now seen as „not like the other girls“ because back then I didn‘t think I was better, I just wanted to stay out of rumors and life in peace, because I was really introverted 😬
@@hannah6034 It was the Cool Girl video. But while not every tomboy is a cool girl, all cool girls are tomboys. Cool girls are all about how they are one of the guys and not like other girls and that includes "male" hobbies.
Not gonna lie, I was terrified of other girls growing up. I always had male friends since I was in daycare, and I wasn’t even really tomboyish. I was a pretty reserved kid, but I remember trying to play with the other girls, and found that there were all these rules to playing, where as with guys, if the way you wanted to play coincides with each other, you play together, but if not you can both do your own thing with no hard feelings. I was also bullied a lot by girls, where as guys were very straightforward in how they communicated. While I liked “girly” stuff just as much as “masculine” stuff, I was intimated because I felt the way girls communicated was more complex than boys and I didn’t know how to navigate it. When puberty happened, all of a sudden everything changed, and all my male friends either didn’t want anything to do with me, or wanted relationships. It was hard, and it wasn’t until the end of high school that I finally found some good female friends. I always hated how I was labeled as some slut or traitor to women, because I didn’t have many female friends. People said I was looking for male attention and approval, and to this day I hear women echo the sentiment that women who hang out with men are strange or actively trying to prove some point by “rejecting sisterhood”. Most of my friends are female now, because I think in high school conformity is priority, where as out in the real world there are less pressures on gender norms, and being an individual is valued above being like everyone else.
I feel nowadays being a tomboy or a girly girl is a lot more fluid, I wear makeup and dresses and I love that and I play rugby and video games and I love that and these things are equally as important to me yet don’t define my character.
Definitely explains the rise of Genderfluidity. Which is a good thing. People can't be put it into boxes. Like I consider myself a tomboy and I mostly dress in a casual way(t-shirts, jeans, leather jackets etcetera) but I occasionally play with makeup and genuinely think some more stereotypical girly things are cute.
Precisely, you can like "traditionally" masculine or feminine interests, without being judged by society for it. Our interests can be as fluid as possible nowadays. 😊
I like this channel but it greatly exaggerates the power of "labels" on people. Labels are just labels. Its a word that sets down clear definitions over gray areas for the sake of simplification and categorization(when its needed, mind you.) It depends on the situation whether the extra description of that gray area is required or not. If I'm a commanding officer of a squad I won't give a fuck whether the squad members are non-binary or trans or whatever. I'll only care about whether they can do their job. I don't want them screaming their sexual preferences wherever they go. Its irrelevant. And unproductive. And I couldn't care less about my identity either. Tomorrow I might lose my sex organs. What happens to my identity then? What if i lose all sex-drive tomorrow due to a head injury? I would be crying over that loss of my identity like a stupid baby. The secret is... That was just another variable in a long list of variables that define ME. I don't need to be overly attached to that *thing* to feel comfortable with myself. Peace.
I don't completely agree with the comments with 10Things because she was still herself in the end but let down some of her walls and allowed herself to fall in love AND still be her intellectual, snarky-self ; the love interest doesn't take away from her character.
I agree, I've always liked tomboys both in fiction and in real life the idea that a tomboy has to reject men or intimacy is one of the things that is wrong with the title, films like little women champion that women are capable of more than just love but you don't have to reject love to pursue whatever else you want.
honey - lemon yeah, and if anything, Patrick changes for her. He stops smoking, drops the intimidating act and starts to care about the things she finds important.
Like any good relationship, they bring out the best in eachother - if anything kat changed patrick more than patrick changed kat. She never let herself change for him; she let herself learn that she doesn't always have to be so defensive - not everyone is out to get her. She doesn't physically transform into something better, she develops in her own way like any teen does. She can wear a dress and still tear down the patriarchy.
I think it's weird that being a bookworm is often portrayed as a tomboyish characteristic for girls, but if a guy prefers reading and literature to more traditional masculine pursuits like sports or cars then he's accused of being feminine.
Back in the day it was seen as masculine because women were taught just how to be a good wife. Education was for men. In my community reading is seen as being intelectual, nothing more.
Back in university I learned that reading poetry was considered masculine hobbies and that novels were considered feminine hobbies. Men studied poetry in school and supposedly didn't have the time to "waste" reading like women did. However, men tended to get published in both of these mediums over women. Women reading books is seen as "tomboyish" because if you think about these character's they spend much of their time imagining great adventures and acting out their favourite heroes from the books they read...which also had male leading protagonists if they were in the adventure genre. From what I remember, this idea that bookish girls are unconventionally feminine stems from the fact that reading novels as a man meant you were lazy, and laziness became attributed to not being masculine enough...which sadly made novels more associated with women who "had time to sit around all day reading and daydreaming." Wow I hope I explained this right...the course was on the history of novels and publishing.
I find Tomboy characters to be very interesting. They are often fan favorites which is understandable. But what I don't like is when they get put up against very feminine girls to make them seem stupid. I liked iCarly because Sam was tomboyish but still friends with Carly who I'd consider more "girlie".
@@mimmidauria5405 Fr like now looking back I don't even like Sam anymore. Her behavior was just unacceptable. Being a tomboy doesn't equate to rudeness. At times I think she's a walking stereotype of what the media perceives as a black person with her rudeness, abuse, love of fried chicken, and at times her borderline disgusting behavior.
@@squidwardtentacles7144 At the base, apparently, Sam Beckett was going to be black. But they abandoned the idea because it would have been too stereotypical and borderline racist. But i don't know it's rumors
One of my pet peeves about this Trope is when they try to change the Tomboy by giving her a makeover to look more conventionally "Feminine".Fortunately, the Tomboy is more likely to keep her boyish ways nowadays, and not get made over. 😁💙
"I was hiding my true self underneath all of these baggy clothes. I was so sad and insecure, but thanks to the generosity of this girl who used to bully me I can finally look sexy for that guy i wanted to ask out"
There’s the implication that once you reach a certain age it’s time to fem it up because god forbid someone might think your a lesbian...and we can’t have that
I didn't see Kat from 10 things i hate about you as being tamed and more feminine in the end , maybe is just my interpretation but is more about she being accepted for who she is by a boy who is also a misfit in and didn't really conform to the "social hierarchy" of high school
Yes I felt that way too. I can imagine them slightly changing the plot of Shakespeare since The Taming of the shrew isn't really modern. It's not the most feminist play so I think they kind of changed the relationship to make it more equal and healthy.
She even said at the end he couldn’t buy her instruments as a way of appeasing her. She never conformed, she only managed to show that she was his equal just as she is, in her non confirming way.
@@aquaticflames Exactly! In fact, saying that she changes for him ends up defeating the whole pourpose of the movie, that is the fact that he is payed to go out with her but in the end HE "screwd up" by developing feelings for her for who she is .
I agree. Maybe in the original work, "The Taming of the Shrew", you could tell that Kate, Kat's counterpart, had mellowed out, even becoming a traditional housewife. But in the updated version, although Kat softens significantly, she still retains her hobbies and interests, thanks to Patrick's influence, so it's a less drastic change. 🖤
One of the reasons why I love Belle so much is actually because she manages to be intelligent and adventurous while still being very sweet and feminine. It shows us that you can be traditionally feminine while being independent and competent at the same time.
I love how The Take doesn't only explain films and characters to me, but it also teaches me about real life people, I feel like I can understand so many of them better now on a deeper level. It make me reflect things rather than judging them.
This is precisely why I adore this channel. It helps its audience to see beyond stereotypes, and to realise how often they are employed by the media. 💗
I feel like this also has to do with thin privilege/attractive privilege. Most of these "tomboys" (especially the grown up/teenage ones like Keira Knightley, Sandra Bullock, Julie Stiles) are still very conventionally attractive, with feminine prettiness and thinness, even if they wear unconventional clothes. Their tomboyishness gets to be portrayed as "cute" and "quirky" but I don't think a chubby, POC, conventionally "ugly" girl would be portrayed the same way--usually a girl from that demographic is not portrayed at all in media. This goes for the "nerd" trope too. Portraying the main character as a "tomboy" or "nerd" or any other social outcast group when the main character looks like a model is not that groundbreaking because thin and conventionally attractive people doing practically anything with any personality is viewed positively.
People can still chastise conventionally attractive people's choices to not conform to gender roles. Your comment sounds like you're saying that conventionally pretty/thin girls don't struggle with gender conformity because society already accepts them cause they're pretty/thin. I think a story about someone who rises past gender conventions is inspirational not matter what they look like.
I think that might be another subject really.. it's still hollywood afterall. I've seen independent movies that have cast non-attractive people in mutual roles of romantic settings and it's portrayed fine. But you're right, casting generally goes to the person who, by most standards, is attractive. This also speaks to how the studio wants to handle it's audience. Or how the studio thinks the audience will handle the casting in their movie/show.
@@lunalovett I agree with your point. Pretty/thin people can still struggle with how they present themselves. But I think the op is trying to point out how attractiveness plays a big role in the problematic tropes involved with this one. When it's only attractive actresses playing these characters, that leaves viewers with very specific takeaways. When literally every example in media is played by an actress who still falls into conventional beauty standards, it's almost telling you that being pretty is the number one priority above individuality. It can even encourage a not-like-other-girls narrative by appealing to an adolescent girl's growing interest in being attractive in a way that seems superior to the traditionally attractive girly girl. That's what happened to me It's not to say that thin/pretty people can't validly feel like they don't measure up in femininity. Those feelings are absolutely valid. I don't know a woman who hasn't struggled with being pigeonholed. Just that it's more an issue of representation. We have plenty of stories where the character has the option to buy some makeup and be an instagram model at any time. If the story can still manage to be compelling for other reasons, that's great. But the concept is no longer compelling on its own. And at the same time, theres this huge demographic of people that see this media and despite having reasons to relate, they feel under represented. In Hollywood we just happen to have a high demand and low supply of stories about characters with unconventionally attractive faces and bodies. Why not encourage those casting decisions? You know? It's really a no brainer from a business perspective. Edit: grammar, fixing run on sentences
that's what always bothered me, if you like pink you are to girly and should learn to be more independent and stuff; but if your a tomboy then you are criticized for not acting like a girl should, so then you are supposed to stay in the middle and be a normal girl only to be told your not special and should again be different. So what is it? be girly? tomboy? "normal"? or nothing at all. It just seems like whatever your personality is you'll be judge for either not being a girl or being a girl. Just let me like whatever the hell i want, i wear dresses and like movies about comics, and that doesn't make me better or worse than anyone else
Mulan isn’t really a tomboy, if you watch the movie, she enjoyed looking feminine and didn’t have a problem with it, the only reason she dressed as a man was because she took her father’s place, not because she wanted to be masculine.
I think her behavior is more tomboy-ish, though -- she's definitely depicted as being physically active in a way that betrays her family's expectations. And while she doesn't dress butch, she doesn't dress especially feminine, either. She's definitely not comfortable with performing the hyper-feminine role expected of her when she meets the match-maker.
As a tomboy type myself, these are some freaking annoying tropes that make me even angrier and hence more "unfeminine": 1) Tomboys hating girly girls because...well...just because they're girly. Thank you misogynistic scriptwriters but no. We tomboys tend to be DISINTERESTED in traditionally feminine activities and in playing with girly girls. Disinterest is a NEUTRAL attitude, unlike contempt or hostility. 2) Male characters somehow feeling threatened by and scared of tomboys, even though we tomboys have similar personalities as (masculine) men AND we are still physically weaker than actual male people, so I don't know what the F those stupid men are scared of 3) Tomboys falling in love with some dudes and then suddenly becoming 1000% more feminine (e.g. from only wearing jeans/trousers to ONLY wearing dresses/skirts) as if we women cannot be in love without being completely "reborn" into a super girly girl. Sorry to burst those scriptwriters' bubbles but... In reality most adult tomboys, including myself, have solidified masculine personalities that will never change just because we're in love. I, for one, only like feminine guys to begin with. Those super macho "alpha males" mean NOTHING to me. In fact, we tend to be even more masculine in front of our long-term lovers and close friends, because we feel more comfortable being who we really are.
@monny287 Yeah now that I think about it, I was also never bullied by boys for looking boy-ish and doing traditional masculine activities. Some stupid older men (including my dad, sorry dad) strongly disliked my tomboy appearance and especially my short hair. Gosh my dad really wanted me to grow my hair long and "look like a girl for once". But boys around my age never cared. On the other hand, many girls at my school and in my neighbourhood did visibly dislike me for being "weird". Their intolerance actually made me "hate" girly girls for a while when I was a teenager. But now when I think back, I didn't really hate them. I was SCARED of them. I was scared and saddened by the feeling of being rejected by my own gender... just because I don't fit the traditional gender image/roles.
@QDhann about #3, funny thing, I guess I'm kind of a tomboy. My last relationship the guy wanted me to start wearing a lot more dresses, makeup, etc. I went out and bought new dresses and started putting on makeup. Then I thought, what am I doing? I was changing for him. I fell into this trope. Once we broke up, I wondered what had happened to me to think it was okay to change who I was for a guy.
@@seppyq3672 I think it is fine as long as you truly wanted to wear those outfits, and the idea that "he'll love seeing me in that dress!" makes you truly content and happy. I'm all for it. Just follow your heart and do whatever makes you happy. One thing that happened to me was that, when I got my first job and also a new boyfriend at roughly the same time, I kinda wanted to look like a real "adult" which, in my 22-year-old brain, meant putting on makeup and wearing more feminine/elegant/mature clothings and high heels. My ex-boyfriend really liked it and so were my co-workers. But after a while, I started to realize that I didn't really enjoy putting on makeup. Aside from the lipsticks (which I still like), I don't think all that foundation/highlighter/eyeliner etc. actually make me look prettier, even though people around me say so. I just looked a bit different and more feminine. But in the end, I still felt more comfortable and "myself" without the makeup and dresses. So then I slowly reversed back to my usual styles. All that experimenting was still fun though. I explored a lot of different feminine styles and some of them (e.g. the "bossy office lady") looked pretty cool on me. I also discovered my HATRED for high heels. So painful...I'm still traumatized 'till this day.
Duuuuddeeeeee that being more masculine that the guys I'm dating thing is actually a serious part of what my only two long term boyfriends brought up as why we didn't work out, and honestly, not mad. Their discomfort at my gender expression is their problem, I'd rather not have stayed with dudes who are intimidated by it. I tend to be attracted to guys who are more masculine than me, but finding ones who don't get uncomfortable with my own masculinity is the struggle. and YES, as the other commentators stated, it was ALWAYS the other girls who worked to try to make me behave more feminine for their comfort than the boys being jerks. The boys just weren't interested in dating me, not fixated on "correcting" my behavior. Girls on the other hand, they'd try to force my hair to fit their styles, get me to wear different clothes or stop doing things I liked that they felt threatened by. I think it speaks to the pressure put on girls by society, but it's undeniable that in claiming we're the ones with internalized misogyny those girls/women are just projecting.
I wish there are movies where the writers prove that being a tomboy is not a phase. Sure, some tomboys may have male love interests but please don't make them grow out of it.
It sucks when now a days, its still the same bullshit but different labels. Then it was "stop being a tomboy and conform to femininity to be taken seriously as a women" Now its "oh? You're not conforming to femininity? Guess you're a trans boy" Rarely do we see a women identifying as a women and rejecting femininity in media anymore
I have a tomboy oc in my space show who features celestial space objects called "Sun & Friends" & I love men so much that when I grow up, I will accidentally fall love in a stranger first glancing... Eventually, the tomboy is a brown dwarf(not Jupiter)
I don't think tomboys are "tomboys". They are just girls who like to play sports and do stereotypical boy things. Plus I know girls who are rough but still like to dress up when they want. I don't understand the concept of the tomboy.
masculinity and femininity are still a thing. nobody argues with the fact that you can be girly and do "boyish things". there's nothing problematic with those concepts at all. the only issue is that the existence of both masculinity and femininity are being used as justifications to put ppl in boxes they may not always fit into
I absolutely concur with your statement! Just because a girl has a few "boyish" interests, such as playing sports or tinkering with mechanics, or has more male friends, doesn't necessarily mean that she has to automatically be labelled as a "Tomboy". 🏀⚽
To me, the getting over my "tomboy phase" was getting over my internalised misogyny and embracing my feminine side, that I had repressed a lot cause I understood, as a child, that being a girl was less than a boy, so I rather be a boy. In my teenager years I finally started wearing dresses and admited finally that my fav color is pink.
@nosoynadaoriginal I was exactly the same. I had some masculine personality traits growing up and that was compounded by people being surprised that a girl could do this, a girl could like that. I read a lot literature aimed at boys and I began to fall into that trap and believe that feminine things were lesser and therefor other girls were lesser. As a tween I was immensely proud to not be like other girls. Until I started to get exposed to literature with amazing female characters that were intellectual, athletic heroes but also feminine. And towards the end of my teenage years I started to try dresses and got more in touch with my feminine side. Because I realised that those things weren't going to make me lesser. I am still more of a tom-boy than a girly-girl. I very rarely wear skirts or dresses or makeup but I feel the freedom to do whatever I want. As a child I thought I had to maintain my tomboy image to be taken seriously, which is really sad looking back on it. But now I've grown up and I know that being feminine is just as valid and worthy as being masculine.
I was exactly the same way. I realized that i was just rejecting traditionally "feminine" things because I didn't want "to be like the other girls." I'm so glad I realized that was stupid when I got older and did/wore what made me happy instead.
Funny thing is growing up I was a girly girl but apart of me wanted to be a Tom boy so boys would take me more seriously, respect me more and not tease me. It’s amazing how subtle misogyny can be.
Same. I wanted to be a tomboy really bad, but eventually embraced my feminine side, and I really don't like when people think Tomboys are cooler, and "girly girls" are sensitive, and uncool. Like my sibling once said they don't like girly girls. But why? Just because they're acting feminine? It's annoying honestly. And then the other way around works too. People should just be able to wear and act the way they freaking want to.
Ruby Hypatia Yeah. There are moments I'm just like "What's the point in having all these terms and stereotypes anyways?" Like why can't we just be us? And thats it?
@@maxmurray1347 you gotta watch their "cool girl" trope video. Guys usually like "tomboys" as long as they're extremely attractive and not super challenging.
The fact that black and brown girls like me feel like they can’t even like the things that they genuinely like for fear of “confirming stereotypes” is honestly one of the many heartbreaking things that keeps happening.
Idc though at this point because they’ll say stuff about you regardless. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Just be yourself and live your life the way you want to live it.
Zeniah Wilburn I wish it was that easy as a black girl sometimes I just want to do things that are seen as more masculine just because society says so. But the media already portrays black woman especially the darker skin ones as Aggressive, And sassy, opinionated and outspoken neck/eye roll and all. To say the least, masculine. So I feel I have to calm myself to be more dainty and quiet and less loud by force just to even the playing fields because we know damn well they won't do it for us, they are the ones set us up to be in this position. Which is why I appreciate them pointing out most tomboys in the media are portrayed as white. They seem to be the only type of woman that can afford to get there hands dirty then jump right back to pastel gloves detailed with lace. like Taylor switching from country to pop. since they already get a verity of tropes from nerd, to damsel in distress, to the sporty girl. They don't risk the idea of having their race even more stigmatized in one space.
I was a girly girl and a tomboy simultaneously. I raced motocross, lifted heavy, and at 68, I was still climbing the masts of a tall ship--but never without my mascara.
The issue is that there’s an unwritten balance between “cool girl” “tomboy” and unfeminine woman. What if you throw a buzzcut in the mix? Or bisexuality? Or a deep voice? Or a neck tattoo? Society deems you can tip the scales too far and no longer be a “girly” girl.
I like the tomboy character, but as I grew up, I started fighting this character. Not the character itself but the fact that the behavior of a woman who acts in that manner is considered tomboyish. Because it means that there's a certain way a woman is supposed to act and there's a way a man is supposed to act. Which is not true. Social roles were created to oppress both women and men, though women have been harmed much more by them. They are not tomBoy. They are just people living their best lives. I understand that the adjective is just an adjective, but the fact that I still hear parents telling their children : "you look/ act like a boy" is annoying. What is "acting like a boy"? How's a girl supposed to act? Something else I hate is the fact that some modern literary novels have been putting the tomboy girl against other girls, the "pretty ones", who like make up and heels. The tomboy girl became the new "not like the other girls". This is revolting because it's against everything the tomboy character stands for. This character stands for freedom, for each individual to be unapologetically themselves. To show that there's no one way to woman. To show that you can be a woman on your own terms. And when you make her superior to other girls, it contradicts the mere existence of this character.
Yeah tropes are a literary tool. Its a writing shortcut. Not good or bad by itself, depends on the skill of the writer. As for Social roles "oppressing people", Social roles weren't created by "those in power". Social roles naturally evolve in any species as a form of division of labor. It helps streamline collection band management of resources for a population. I'm not saying all social roles are good. I'm saying that some social roles die out in usefulness as progress occurs, but the exit process is very slow. That's the correct way of looking at it. We humans have the power to educate, and that's the best solution for training the next generation to adapt new, more practical mindsets. (BTW men have suffered more from social roles. Only half the number of men managed to have kids compared to the number of women. These men died of starvation, predators, wars and disease.)
That reminds me of Max from Stranger Things (who's mentioned in this video). When season 3 came out, many people complained because she went to the mall with Eleven. Because now, she's not a "true tomboy anymore!" 🙄 Like what? She was still seen skateboarding, enjoying scary movies, being loud, rocking sneakers and jeans, etc. She didn't really change. She just also enjoys shopping trips with her female friend. Not every "tomboy" thinks that they are above "girly" things. People need to stop projecting their internalized misogyny on characters.
I never grew out of the “tomboy” phase. I’m in engineering. And even if I were in the culinary arts, I’d still be a “tomboy”. This is such a deep video. Even when I was a kid and people asked me why I liked doing boy-things, I’d say “I like doing Tiffany-things.” Like what you like. There are female prodigies in the STEM field and male prodigies in dance. Oh. And I was today years old when I found out that the Freaky Friday I know is a remake.
Oh, man! If you're talking about Freaky Friday from 2003, then you like a remake of a remake. There was also a 1995 TV movie that aired on Disney/ABC. That one is my favorite!
I have nothing against tomboys, but i just absolutely HATE when they are shown as somehow better than the other girls. And that's not just tomboys, with many other tropes they act like one trope is superior than the other. It irks me so much. In case of tomboys, when are shown to look down on, say, the girly girls 🤮 why must they act like they are the only ones worthy of anything. People with superiority complexes are disgusting.
I agree with you, but I think you should keep in mind that it’s a more recent type of movie/show/video game, etc. that actually highlights the Tomboy character as one the audience is supposed to focus on as a main character, instead of an antagonist who is meant to be unlikable to the general audience. Basically, she has dropped the antagonist role but retains the same unlikable traits she was always assigned. Not all tomboy characters, but the kinds this trope is applied to.
I think that's because most tomboys were ridiculed and shamed by all of society but most especially by "girly girls". And movies used to portray tomboys as weird, outcast side-characters. Then as things shifted to a different era, movies started making tomboys the main character, and basically try to switch the narrative. I am glad we're at a time where girls can be anything they want to be more easier, though, and this trope is less used in movies.
Superiority complexes are in everything. Politics, religion, race, favorite music or movie genre etc. Human beings are just deeply insecure and filled with ego, they always gotta be right and constantly look for validation. If it doesn't fit into that worldview, they panic and need to put down the other person until they conform.
Yes!! One of my favorite tropes in tv and film. I also really love Arya Stark for the fact that (more in the books) she’s considered a classic tomboy at first glance (hates dresses, likes to fight etc) but it’s not her rejection of feminine things for the sake of it. More so her rejection of what is expected of her to get married to a stranger and have their babies and that’s it. She wasn’t good at the things she was “supposed” to be good at but she doesn’t let it define her.
Lily I agree. But that line is solely from the show. D&D are clueless when it comes to the characters actual point. Arya even has a line “The woman matters too!” In the books. She doesn’t look down on femininity in of itself. She just has a childish view on it. Similar to Bran who thinks they are “girly and stupid” too. She also has an insecurity she wasn’t good at the things expected of her. Much like Sansa
I want to see a "tomboy" that gets to find love WITHOUT changing their interests and personality and without being "saved". Falling in love is normal, and a supposed "tomboy" also deserves love if that's something they want. I want to see growing up portrayed as building upon who you already were, instead of tearing down the foundation of yourself to build something deemed "acceptable" by society. I want a girl to be be able to be a girl regardless of their interests, and vice versa. The term "tomboy" is outdated.
Its funny cause i used to be tomboyish as a kid and liked a few boys and then was still tomboyish in high school but realizing i didnt like boys, now im 25 and into girly things, but im also gay 🤭
Something I'm very surprised about the comment sections below videos of The Take, is the huge lesbian and bisexual women's presence here. Reasons?: -More women watch this channel -Those out of the closet are much more likely to share their experiences, due to their past courage. -Population of non-straight women is very high.(nowadays) -Men don't like to comment. Which ones are true, and by which extent? Let me know your thoughts.
@@dithaingampanmei Seems likely that more women watch this channel, considering it consists largely of videos with two women talking about female representation in media. And it also seems likely that men feel they have fewer things to comment on videos like these, considering our experience is not as directly related to the subject. And considering this video, in particular, is about traits often associated with non-straight women, is it really surprising that a large number of them decided to share their input?
I don't know. Sure there's a smaller stigma and non-binary people have no problem expressing it. Especially online. I just know that this is not the world I grew up in. Something clicked, but I can't pinpoint where. This video mentioned dropping labeling toys as female and male. Something I always hated as a kid were the toys' adverts: Aggressive and bombastic for men's toys, like cars, overly excited, high pitched and pink for women's. It might also depend on where you grew up.
@@joaomarcoscosta4647 I was reaching a conclusion similar to yours. But its amusing to see the sheer number of commenters talk about how certain tropes hugely affected their personality development and their worldview. (Gender roles, categories of women, mistaken ideals in relationships, and other such tropes) When I never had such issues...? 🤔 I always considered books and movies as entertainment. Nothing more, nothing less. Certainly not something to imitate. I would feel too silly to glorify any fictional character *that* much, that I begin to box myself in to copy them.
@@iCupcakeMelaniex3 Think of Jake Sully from Avatar. His character is a prime example for the white savior since the film suggests that the Na'vi wouldn't have been able to defend themselves against the humans without his help.
Yes, this example is disturbingly more frequent in teenage works, particularly in "Save our Students" movies, like "Dangerous Minds", "Freedom Writers" or "The Blind Side", where the white protagonist, helps to inspire the oppressed students, who are typically minorities. 🤔
When I was a Tomboy before my teens, I've never been more confident. I knew who I was. I knew how I wanted to dress. I knew what I enjoyed. But a lot happened in the process of growing up and a lot of people used what used to make me confident and happy as a reason to mistreat me. So I grew my hair, I wore dresses again for the first time since early childhood. Nobody but strangers treated me better for this though. I've been assessing what can make me happy over the last couple of years because nothing seems to so I've started to return to what made me confident once. I cut off, 16 inches of hair gone, donated it, got a short pixie a lot of people said I shouldn't. Started wearing clothes that make me confident as me. I go outside, I can walk and walk and walk. I'm starting feel better and this makes me more capable.
I completely relate to this. I've been reminiscing, especially this past few months, on the kid I was until 15-16 and how free, outspoken, sporty, confident (like you said) and "tomboyish" I used to be. And how that changed in my late teens. I remember at one point, I wanted to learn skateboarding but my parents refused to buy me a skateboard because it was a "boy's thing". Now I'm regaining that side of who I was. Funny thing is, clothes wise I used to wear sneakers and jeans a lot, but I also liked to dress "girly"; so I never got the dissasociation between femenine clothes and the tomboy personality.
@@ValerieBeau I was lucky my parents didn't have a problem indulging the person I wanted to be. But it was more an issue with my peers, my age group didn't seem to think much of hurling out a homophobic or transphobic slur. I'm not sure why but not wearing skirts or dresses was important to me. I did get stuck upside down on a fence post after jumping off wearing a dress for a family occasion and the back of my dress got caught. It's one of my funnier childhood misadventures. 😅
As a tomboy, I absolutely don't understand why other people can't just see this as a form of gender expression instead of hoping and praying that the lifelong gender expression I've been displaying will "go away" so that their discomfort with it won't be confronted. Being a tomboy doesn't mean I'm inherently beset by internalized misogyny. Being a tomboy doesn't mean that I'm somehow just protecting a fragile and more feminine ego with "masculine cliches" or that I'm judging other more feminine people. It's just a spot on the spectrum of gender identity. I'd love if instead of people wishing my gender expression would go away, they'd recognize their personal biases about it.
It's like an insult because the character feels disrespected by people who make no effort to truly understand them and instead make up some bullshit to explain confusing reality.
@Alexis Fitzroy The fact that you felt the need to say "I'm the straightest person on earth", is kinda evident that you were offended at being confused with a lesbian.
It is insulting, because it implies that every straight woman should seek the male gaze and approval, and when they don't, it is solely because they aren't interested in men. It also implies that women aren't multifaceted, that the average woman cannot be invested in both sports and make-up, that it is impossible for women to be complex and brilliant beings. It is also super insulting because it implies that the woman who isn't conventionally attractive is ugly, that having features outside of thinness and daintiness is hideous, that beauty cannot be found in healthy musculature or rounder features or short hair or comfy clothing or anything you wouldn't see in a Victoria's Secret catalog. It is a short cut to dismiss women they cannot easily understand, to write out a new reality they've never comprehended, to place us all into a cute little stereotypical box.
Almost like Black Widow. She's beautiful in a more "girly" way (they give her sexy outfits that accentuate her curves and makeup to look sexier) but she's always in the background of the others, never a true threat. Except to maybe Hawkeye
@@Blue.1889 I mean the problem with black Widow is that, though a cool ass character, she barely had any characterisations until Endgame. I guess because marvel does not have a Wonder Woman, they tried to make her stand out but everything about her seemed so fake like she's an videogame character and not a real person. her own solo movie should have came out before, that would definitely flashed out her character
Oh man this hits close to home, I grew up being so grateful for tomboy role models like Mulan and Viola from She's the Man 😅 I was thought to be a lesbian most of my life because I rejected conventionally "girly" things, all my friends were guys, and I was very outspoken and didn't take crap from anyone. It only stopped when I finally got a boyfriend and people viewed me as "tamed" kind of like Kat. I was really bitter about that for a long time because I felt like I was put in a bubble by my peers, yet I also confronted the bubble I put myself in by the time I got to college because I realized how much of a negative attitude I had towards traditionally female things. It was like I felt judged for being myself, so I decided to judge other women for being "girly", thus isolating myself more from other women. It was a weird form of internalized misogyny I had that I eventually confronted later in life. Now I'm just me, I don't label myself as a tomboy cause I do enjoy conventionally feminine things like makeup and dresses and I have come to terms with these tropes not always being helpful for women because we are layered individuals.
Now I think I'd like to see the inverse of this: a video deconstructing the "girly girl" trope and how damaging that can be. It makes women seem like their "naturally feminine" state is to be vapid, self-absorbed and unintelligent, just because maybe they like pink, or fashion, or have other interests seen as frivolous or shallow. I personally contend that women practicing things that are seen as traditionally feminine become toxic *if they're being used to reinforce conformity or to stamp out the gender spectrum, or appeal to the male gaze without any true benefit for the "girly" girl in question.* Moreover, I occasionally notice the idea of getting married and having children has been disregarded as inherently bad because it's conforming to society, apparently negating any independence a woman has in her own right. And it is true that marriage and subsequent children were for centuries (including in Louisa May Alcott's time), used to keep women down. Women were considered men's property; going directly from their fathers to their husbands, thus the tradition of being "given away" at her wedding. But I think it's different if a woman is getting married because she genuinely WANTS to, by her own volition, not because she's "supposed" to. Plus, think about any of the feminists in US history who gave us our rights: Sojourn Truth, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Lucy Stone, Lucrettia Mott, Susan B. Anthony? Every single one of these extraordinary women throughout their lives got married, had children, or usually both. In fact. Elizabeth Cady Stanton's wedding was a HUGE deal because she famously removed the word "obey" from her wedding vows because she refused to "obey" her husband and clearly he accepted that. Lucy Stone's marriage was a big deal because she chose to keep her original last name, which was so revolutionary they created the Lucy Stone League which still exists to this day, and serves to encourage women to keep their last name for various reasons, almost 100 years later. I don't thing being more traditionally "feminine" or "masculine" or anything in between is either good or bad. Just as these "tomboys" no longer need a special name for "a biological female who likes things usually associated with males", the "girly girl" is just as confining, limiting and stereotypical. For example, do I love pink, and shopping, and fashion? Yes. I also love to read, make art, engage in political discourse, and write. Too often female tropes present an either/or scenario. I'm delighted to be living in a time when finally, we can all be whatever we damn well please, gender notwithstanding.
That’s why I like Elle wood’s character so much in legally blond (our down for her femininity but proves herself to others) and Sam from icarly because she’s a tomboy but doesn’t put down her girly best friend or is put down by get
@@disneygirl8694 yes! I love Elle too & i really liked their 2 videos about it: one on Elle and one on the "Dumb Blonde" cliché; they're both great videos by The Take!
She really is, especially when she is compared and contrasted to the "Girly Girl". The Tomboy is usually our down to earth Heroine, while the Girl is almost always typecast as being our mean antagonist. ❤️
I hate how tomboys usually expected to become more feminine to be friends with other girls I like stereotypically "boyish" things, and my friends are mostly girls who are into stereotypically "girly" stuff But still we get along really well and support each other
How do you feel about those engineered mixed groups of friends that have the token tomboy, much like they might do so for specific identities or interests?
@@christopherb501 i usually don't relate to them at all because usually for the token characters being tomboy is the only personality trait But there are some good examples like Toph from Avatar
I feel like I encounter a lot of women who have come full circle on the tomboy these days, girls who used tomboy as a "proto-Cool Girl" and as they grew up realized they wanted to embrace their femininity, but then started pegging other women who didn't make this change as "trying to be a cool girl" or "not like other girls." But some of us really are just more comfortable in jeans in a T-shirt and have no interest or aptitude for make-up. I think the tom-boy still has a place, simply because there's a label for everything else under the sun as far as style and expression goes. No, we're not remarkable, but that's kind of the point. Retiring a trope that describes me, that I identify with, just because it's no longer seen as "ground breaking" seems silly to me. There are still plenty of girls from households that would prefer her to be more feminine, that hasn't gone away, and likely never will, it just isn't the standard anymore.
Thank you for this ! 💕I don't want to be called a "not like other girls" because I don't care about being pretty and I have hobbies THAT ARE SEEN as masculine. Girly girls are great. Boyish girls are great. As someone that have been rejected all her life for not being girly enough, the meme kinda attack me for not fitting in " feminine" stuff.
Exactly! Not everybody who identifies more with masculine characteristics is suddenly a hateful misogynist, and is actually suppressing parts of themselves in order to be liked by guys. That is such a gross over-simplification, in my opinion. It seems like a lot of people are missing the point: for some women, seeing other 'tomboys' made them feel accepted. I myself got made fun of as a kid (by peers as well as parents) for my more masculine characteristics, and now apparently we're back to that, but in a different packaging. "Are you reallllyyy like that, or are you just trying to impress people, sweetie? Oh, it's just a phase" Give me a break lol, I am who I am. I don't make fun of girls for being more girly, and girls who are more girly should stop trashing on 'tomboys' just because that's the cool thing to do now. Yeah, maybe tomboy-ish girls aren't always the nicest, but neither are the more girly ones (got pick on by some of those all my childhood). Let's chill and stop trying to uplift one category of people by shitting on another.
This video could have delved deeper into the culture that looks down at things that are considered feminine. It couldve explained how the tomboy trope often made fun of girly things and portrayed masculine activities as inherently superior and cooler
As a boy I always thought the tomboys were the coolest. I didn't really understand the transformation arc. Did people not see how cool they were before? The familiarity of the clothes and interests made them relatable and if they were good at a something how could I not respect that?
I don’t like the fact that they portray Tomboys as though we have something against girly girls. I’m a tomboy, and I’ve never had anything against girly girls. I’m a girls girl, so I will always root for other women regardless if they’re overtly feminine or more masculine. And I’ve been friends with girly girls and other tomboys myself so.
Well, you can be a Tomboy and be nice to people. You can also be a girly girl and not be mean to people. Or you can be both. In the end, all that matters is be yourself.
The perfect example that comes to my mind is Anjali from Kuch Kuch Hota Hai. There was something so troubling that she isn't appreciated until she fits into the perfect picture of the sanskaari Indian woman
I 100% agree I recently watched this with my sister and after the transformation scene when she starts acting like that kind/shy perfect Indian woman I thought great everything I liked about her is gone.
that's usually a reaction to society usually making fun of them from rejecting their femininity. But there are a lot of tomboys who don't have that complex. Most don't actually, and its annoying seeing y'all group us all together as if the subsection of girls who shame other girls represents all tomboys .
Well, queercoding is a thing but I know several tomboys in my real life who are not lesbians. But I do agree that tomboys were used a lot as a shortcut to portray a character that was supposed to be a lesbian but the creators probably couldn't get away with it. You see that in teen tv shows in the 80s and 90s.
Im a trans guy and these characters helped me understand gender identity more. My issue with the tomboy trope is they can never be trans men...regardless of their sexuality.
I also worry about the trope going in the opposite direction. "We can't just let people be tomboys". Maybe it's just the media I happen to watch, but now I feel like it's extremely rare to see straight women with really short hair and looser clothes simply because that's how she likes to be. It always has to be the that she's gay, or trans, or "presenting" as male. Maybe I'm just weird, but I like it when "masculine" women and "feminine" men are allowed to be totally straight. Edit: Feminine women and masculine men being gay is cool too.
Grew up with two older brothers, hated pink, and didn't understand why I had to wear a shirt when the didn't. Last summer I walked down the aisle in my pretty white dress and high top converse. Don't let anyone tell you how to be yourself.
I called myself a tomboy for years but now I'm seeing that I have a balance between traditionally masculine interests (superheroes, shonen anime and manga etc.) and feminine interests (dancing, singing, etc.) I was originally going to say that I didn't want to give up the word 'tomboy' but maybe that would be for the best... I'll have to think about it.
@@lolaa.8161 Men and boys who dance are often labeled as feminine, and, particularly in classic (ballet, tap, etc.) and ballroom forms, assumed to be gay by a lot of people.
As a tomboy I really feel like it's the feminine women who want to get rid of the phrase. They mistake the gender expression side of being a tomboy with outright misogyny to them. They're not wrong that society still looks down on feminine things, but they then turn their frustrations to punching down on a non typical gender expression because some tv shows used it as a trope once ::eyeroll:: and they unironically then try to police the lacking femininity of other women to fit their ideas of what womanhood should be. I still love using the term tomboy. To me it denotes that I'm not trans, I'm comfortable with my assigned sex at birth, I just have a non standard gender expression.
As a kid, I was obsessed with tomboys, even though I wasn’t one myself. Turns out I just had crushes on them, and I was just super gay. That being said, when I was about 5, I asked my mom what the male equivalent of a Tom boy was, you know, a boy who does girly things. Rather than break my childhood gender equality values, and tell me that those boys are just made fun of, she told me they were called Tammy Girls.
Something similar happened to me. When I readed little women I was obsessed with Jo (she’s still my favorite character) so I decided I was going to be like her, even when I always loved dresses and being all princess-like but that was just for a less than a year bcs I found out it wasn’t my thing being boyish and i loved girly things too much xd I still adopted her values about dreams and not being put in a box tho but lately I realized I just had a big crush on her and also Laurie 😂 and it happened with many other female characters too, tomboy or not xd sorry for my bad english
Something I'm very surprised about the comment sections below videos of The Take, is the huge lesbian and bisexual women's presence here. Reasons?: -More women watch this channel -Those out of the closet are much more likely to share their experiences, due to their past courage. -Population of non-straight women is very high.(nowadays) -Men don't like to comment. Which ones are true, and by which extent? Let me know your thoughts.
I have yet to see a tomboy in a movie or show that doesnt get made to wear femine clothes by the end to symbolize either growing up or gaining more confidence. I hate it. I'd just like to see one or 2 movies where they get a makeover sure but one that fits their masculine aesthetic. The beauty of the tomboy trope as a kid who really was in that was the it made kids like that feel less alone. But it sucks when it tells you can't be like that forever. Oh back the comment about there being none. someone mentioned toph in the comments and she counts for sure.
Bend it like Beckham. they don't even really get a makeover. I don't know if i should spoil it for you, I would just recommend watching it. also, in Miss Congeniality, Gracie goes back to wearing pant suits and wears almost no makeup, she just looks a bit more elegant and has more appreciation for feminine women. literally her growth is realizing that girly girls she so used to disdain are lovely intelligent complex humans in their own right. her change is not in being girly and tame now, but rather finding the balance.
I actually can think of one. Wendy from Gravity Falls. She is tough and laid back, but she occasionaly wears dresses and stuff. Dipper and Robbie are madly in love with her.
As an AFAB trans poc, tomboy characters were very important to me both to break out of the female identity and realize that there are many aspects to being female. The closest role model I had as a kid was Mulan. There is nothing wrong with traditional femininity or defying those norms or being a mix of the two. I'm glad you talked extensively about the inherent reinforcement of the gender binary the tomboy was supposed to defy. Also, more gnc poc!
The thing I loved about the 2019 little women Is that it didn't say that tom boys are better than girly girls may is an Ambitious smart girly girl Well joe is an ambitious smart tomboy.Strong women can be both feminine or anti feminine
I never liked being called a tomboy, and I still don’t. Yeah, I’m more of the “traditionally masculine” stuff, but... no? I’m still a girl? I just express myself however I want just like “girly girls” express themselves however they want. It’s just time to accept it.
I always felt some discomfort with the trope. I was a classic “girly-girl” as a kid but sometimes felt shamed by my friends who considered themselves tomboys. When i’m reality I was just a sentimental kid who liked pretty things and I’m still like that. Not because I’m a woman but because that’s who I am. So many of these characters seem to be classic forms of “not like the other girls.” Even implying that being intelligent makes them better than the others. God forbid a woman wear makeup and dresses but still be witty and interesting. Now that I’m older I can appreciate what it’s done for female representation. But I’m just really glad that it’s become more common to see gender as a spectrum and not belittle sensitivity because it’s associated with women.
RIght? I grew up trying to be a tomboy because media presented them as the desirable alternative to shallow, stupid girly-girls. But that's really not me.
As a kid, I was a tomboy with a girly bff. She was a social butterfly, straight-A student, and a literal beauty queen. Friends with me, this near-feral goblin that loved mud, shiny rocks, and insects. I think our friendship worked because she was comfortable playing in the dirt with me and I was comfortable with her giving me makeovers. She was a big influence over my lifelong rejection of the "I'm not like other girls" bs that so many people tried to push on me. When I got older there would be guys trying to flirt with me with that opening line "oh, you're not like other girls" only to backfire with my response "the fuck is wrong with other girls?!" Also note I had no idea at the time that they were trying to flirt. Hindsight's a hell of a drug.
I am the opposite. I am a plain jane that leans toward tomboyish at times. I am just really boring and plan. I love jeans and graphic t shirts and my glasses. But now that I am older. I am learning to be more feminine and I enjoy it very much. Its really funny everytime people see me dressed up. I still enjoy my laid back style but am so happy with this feminine journey I am on. Im glad these tropes are evolving to recognize that wevarent one dimensional as women. I do agree this trope can shame traditional feminine things simply fir their association to womanhood. The "not like other girls" thing is very annoying.
Just out of curiosity, did you love Legally Blonde? You sound like you might have felt represented by Elle Woods. (P.S.: I love those movies and Reese Witherspoon)
Francisco Vargas I do like Legally Blonde. I feel like I’m a very different type of traditional femininity than Elle Woods but I do still love the message of that movie and how it tears that trope apart.
When it comes to "tomboys" growing up, I feel like showing them as "gross" and unkept is done by showing them with oversized clothes, unbrushed long hair, etc. It's funny that they never have short hair, wear suits in formal occasions, or anything dapper. Tomboys are never presented seriously, because they are seen as "failed women." Even in our culture, this is still ongoing. Look at our formal wear. Jumpsuits have only recently been seen as formalwear for women, and suits are still out of the equation. Even "women's" suits still are really gendered and don't look nearly as nice as "men's."
there are many styles of jumpsuit but there are casual and formal styles. but yea they should show them in like better fitting clothing but for quite a while loose or baggy was the style for girly or tomboy
oooh19 True, but the fact that the only socially acceptable way for a woman to wear pants and be formal is to wear a outfit resembling a dress instead of just wearing a full on suit says a lot. It's still pretty recent too bc I even remember there was a controversy over a high school girl wearing a jumpsuit to her prom (edit: homecoming) because it was considered to be too casual (edit: and the venue required women to wear dresses)
I used to be called a tomboy a lot when I was younger, my body grew faster than I was comfortable with and being limited to girly and feminine activities and traits felt like I was being held back and punished for being a girl. I hated how being viewed as a girl meant conforming to a strict set of invisible rules and I didn't like constantly being judged for not being good enough at being a girl. I was also very shy and introverted and hated being stared at because my body matured early, and I think I was too young to understand why I was feeling this way and just started idolising the idea of being a boy instead. I used to wish I was a boy all the time because then I wouldn't have to deal with the social pressure of being a girl, and ended up being labeled a tomboy. As an adult though I know its fine to be who you are no matter what you identify as
I'm someone who does consider myself a tomboy. I just enjoy doing more boyish things. Obviously masculinity and femininity are based on stereotypes but screw it life is full of stereotypes and aren't completely evil unless it's used to insult someone. Though I am a tomboy, I don't like sports and I'm not huge into video games. Being a tomboy doesn't mean I'm gay or that I'm trans like many, many people think I am. People should be allowed to express themselves without judgement or assumption of sexuality or gender. I'm a girl. I just like being more typically masculine. A girl who acts typically feminine shouldn't be judged or shunned for doing what they enjoy. A boy who is typically masculine shouldn't feel pressured. A boy who acts more feminine shouldn't be bullied or be assumed to be gay. All genders are valid and must be allowed to express themselves without judgement of others. Simple as. Let people be people.
For me the saddest thing about tomboys is that they're typically portrayed as happiest and most accepted when they become stereotypically feminine, I would love to see tomboy characters to stay as they are and for people around them to change and accept them for their uniqueness. Because it's okay for a girl to have stereotypical masculine traits, just like it's okay for a boy to have stereotypical feminine traits, and non-binary/gender non-conforming identities need more positive recognition. As someone who loved tomboy characters growing up, I'd rather see tomboys get the ending they deserve (that is gaining acceptance without changing themselves) rather than to disappear.
One thing about the tomboy trope that has always bothered me, is that some people assume that just because a girl is a tomboy, then she's a lesbian, or vice versa, if a woman is gay then she must be more tomboyish than feminine. Seems so narrow minded.
I absolutely LOVE the character of Star Butterfly from the show "Star vs the forces of evil" because her interests are in things that are both traditionally Feminine and traditionally masculine. She loves cute things and wearing dresses, but she's also a scrapper and doesn't act like a well mannered lady. No one calls her a girly girl or Tom boy, or insists that she SHOULD fall neatly into either category. They just accept that that's her personality. That's the kind of female character I wanted to watch when I was growing up as little girl who felt like I didn't fall into wither category of Girly girl or Tomboy either. I fantasized about going on awesome sword fighting adventures and to wear a pretty dress while doing it. BTWs yes I am aware of the notorious ending. I'm kind of sick of it that every discussion about this show now has to be about it and it feels like I can't bring up any positive aspects of the show anymore.
I enjoyed watching these, but sometimes I feel like they are all over the place and trying to find stuff that isn't there. Kate in 10 things does not change the way they explained. Neither does Gracie in Miss Congeniality. Grace realizes it's not that bad but she is still tough throughout it. Showing you can be both things in both movies. As per usual, I felt myself thinking "such a simple way of viewing stuff".
The tomboy has to fight to be herself. The older women try to make them more traditional like the old school Princess Allura, Scout from To Kill a Mockingbird, and the Princess from the Smurfs.
I wish they would focus more on stories about *older* tomboys in film and literature. We usually only ever see them portrayed as teens or preteens in their respective sources. Glad to see that there's one on this list.
That second one seems very specific. The only rebel Asian girl with dyed hair I can think of from the media at the moment is Tina from Glee. Maybe I'm missing something here.
Elizrebezilma Dommdo nope there’s more Gogo: big hero 6 That girl from the show 6ixteen The girl from Deadpool Blink from X-men Tina from glee And I think there’s a few more.
@@mynameisreallycool1 To contribute to Paris Edit's list: Lane from Gilmore Girls and the Asian girlfriend from Scott Pilgrim in the Scott Pilgrim vs. The World movie.
This trope was extremely popular when I was a kid. It was the start of the third wave, and femininity was considered weak. It wasn't until I was in college that I realized just how oppressive that notion was. Now I appreciate femininity for what it is and no longer look down on people for it. While we're talking about gender expression in connection to sexuality, how about looking at the Camp Gay trope?
In yuri manga(girl/girl romance) there’s also the trope of the more “tomboyish” girl who secretly wants to dress and act more feminine and it can get pretty tiring
I just wanna thank this channel for making me more aware of the esteriotypes of women in movies. I learned so much and grown myself, thank you for your contest and videos I really enjoy watching your videos.
@@yes2395 of course there's nothing wrong with being a tomboy, but I don't like being called a tomboy (a term associated with maculine things) when I'm just not being feminine. Makes me feel like they only perceive people as either "masculine" or "feminine" instead of seeing that those things exist within a spectrum of gender expression. As if not being feminine automatically makes me masculine when I'm simply existing. Idk if that makes sense
I'm so glad you did a video on this. This is the reason why I stopped referring to myself as a tomboy because then people would just put me in a box and project stereotypes onto me. Sometimes I like to do things considered "More feminine" and most times I don't and its okay. I'm glad producers are starting to portray a better version of the Tomboy that break stereotypes and allow people to just be themselves
So the 80s tomboy was just girls who couldn't afford nice dresses? Goodness grief. Can we get movies where the "tomboy" is also a girly girly. A women who doesn't mind getting dirty and also doesn't mind dressing up?
yea and plus you can be poor yet girly. and if you simply cant afford nice clothes or maintenance then it's not your choice. also some moms cut their daughters' hair short bc it's "easier".
@Lisa H You mean realistic characters? The only woman I ever met who almost exclusively wore dresses and was also pretty large chested was also someone who was a sports shooter (target shooting on a range with her own sport shooting rifle) who felt like people should have basic survival skills and who liked to climb on trees (while wearing a dress, of course). And from 2002 to 2004 I went to school with a (very young) woman who looked very feminine (body type and clothing style) and who was from a smaller place where they had no girls' (and later women's) soccer team. So she was always on a male team. Edit: "Met", not "mean" ...
Gal Gadot's Wonder Women is the best example, and unfortunately the only example, I can think of who doesn't follow gender roles in a way that's truely inspirational. She neither rejects nor prescribes to femininity or masculinity, but instead chooses the qualities that are best for her regardless of gender expectations.
Ok so i am a straight woman and my tomboyishness started with my dad making me wear comfy boys'clothes when i was little simply because they are more comfortable in this sauna like tropics we live in. I don't even think og myself as a tomboy honestly. I mean, we all are people and everyone is unique. Media portrayal through categorisation is simply flawed. I mean, I don't ever wear make up because i sweat a lot, it all dissolves into my neckline, and i honestly prefer splashing water on my face all day long, but beleive it or not, i do make up for my girl friends, and i am proud of my fashion choices for parties and stuff. I am their go to person if my friends need to accessorize or stuff. So yeah. And I've had short hair throughout my life because it is curly and growing it out gives me horrible hairfall and breakage. And i look cute in bobs😊 It's nothing to do with stereotypes. I'm glad these are now being incorporated into mainstream media
I like to see a lot of girls here commenting that they're a combination of tomboy and girly. Also I love seeing how a lot of girls are saying they don't care for a label and simply just do whatever they love! Its great seeing people becoming more nuanced with themselves!
I like how this trope is subverted somewhat in Game of Thrones. We are encouraged to prefer Arya's Tomboy to Sansa's Girly Girl but we come to not only sympathize with Sansa but also realise that she is also smart, observant and just as capable as Arya.
I think the trope makes more sense in histoircal setings, where there really was quite a major separation of what women and men had the right to do. It took bravery to risk your social standing and livelihood to challenge these norms back in the 19th century for example.
Anybody noticed how the tomboy is always admirable in some way, like you can't just be a tomboy but you have to be pretty or be a certain weight or be some kind of 'genius'?
Am a tomboy and I never look down on the girly girls...they're things girly girls can't do what tomboys do and they're things that girly girls can do that we cannot do...after we are both girls with different characteristics 🙃💪💞
Movies and tv shows referenced here: - Miss Congeniality - Brave - 10 Things I Love About You - The Princess Diaries - The Fits - Pariah - Mulan - She's The Man - Bend It Like Bekham - Mean Girls - West Side Story - The Breakfast Club - Never Have i Ever - I Am Not Ok With This - Zack and Cody - Avatar - Stranger Things - Game of Thrones - Little Women (1990s) - To Kill a Mockingbird - It Takes Two - Punky Brewster - iCarly - Some Kind of Wonderful - Tomboy - Love & Basketball - Cheaper by the Dozen - My Girl - Little Women (1933) - Little Women (1949) - Euphoria - Little Fires Everywhere - S€x Education - Tudors - Candleshoe - Mulan (2021) - Freaky Friday - Paper Moon - The Bad News Bears - Valley Girl - The Facts of Life - Alex Mack - A League of their Own - Harriet the Spy - Terry the Tomboy - She's All That - Clueless - PEN15 - Spider-Man: Far From Home - Booksmart - Set It Up - The OC - Chilling adventures of sab - Pose - Good Girls - Full House
I was a tomboy as well as a nerd growing up but I’m trying to become more girlier now as an adult. I played video games, watched WWE, and loved playing sports with the boys. I hated wearing dresses, skirts, and heels. Mulan and Jo were some of my favorite characters as a kid and I always preferred Mary Kate over Ashley. My mom always got on me for not “ acting like a girl “. I grew up with two brothers who I was always fighting with. As an adult, I’m trying to become more girlier because I want to be seen as a feminine and attractive adult.
question is the only reason you're doing it because you want to be seen as a more normal female by society. if that is isn't it pretty negative to do that since you're just removing a part of your self just to conform to a old way of how a adult female should act . if I'm being rude or insentive sorry.
well "tomboy" is seen as empowering sadly but sometimes girls/women enjoy being girly. even treating yourself to a 5 minute hair style is seen as "too long" but it's worth it to treat yourself. I was pretty much girly but some of my friends spent an hour on their hair and makeup but it can take less time like maybe 10-20 minutes
Jolyne Nizuma I’m a Black woman. You don’t understand why it’s important for me to be more feminine. It’s rare to see beautiful and feminine dark skin Black women who look like me in the media. I don’t want to be the angry, aggressive, unprotected, warrior, manly black woman. I want to be feminine and protected.
TheLeah2344 as another black female tomboy I can completely relate to you wanting to be more feminine as a form of empowerment. By the same token though the reason you don’t feel protected is not because you “lack femininity” but because we live in a racist sexist world with Eurocentric beauty standards that undervalues black women, so don’t blame yourself.
The only thing I dislike about how tomboys are portrayed in media is that most of the time they openly encourage girls to look down on or even make fun of others who do honestly enjoy traditionally feminine things or activities
I also dislike that it only encourages a certain type of tomboy as acceptable, one that's always straight ultimately and one that's considered abnormal by the world at large as if being a girl is one way experience.
The only thing I dislike about how girly girls are portrayed in media is that most of the time they openly encourage girls to look down on or even make fun of tomboys.
The tomboy attitude it's like "I'm not like other girls"
@@ForAnAngel please tell me what media does that without portraying the girly girl in the wrong? Because i can think of plenty the other way arround
Golden Rose literally any piece of media where the girl is masculine but not the main character or love interest
I think for years my family of tomboys wanted me to be one too. Turns out tomboy and girly are dumb ideas. People are just people and everyone is a little bit of every trope.
Amen, sis!
Yes!
Exactly I have lots of different tropes in my personality that's why it's so hard to find which one I fit into because I have all 😃
@@tionnajohnson8430 Yeah. And I think the idea of fitting in one place is also harmful. It stops growth in different areas because a person thinks welp I can't do that. These ideas are very limiting and I hate it when people try to fit others in boxes that should only exist in movies. You have a lot of different things so you are a well rounded person which is awesome!!
Well said ^^
I like tomboys as long as they are not portrayed as inherently better then girly girls. or look down on them.
Its one of the reasons why I dislike show Arya as oppose to book Arya.
I think show Arya in the earlier seasons was quite good but don't take it from me, I've never read the books.
Well put
YES exactly
Yo, that is true. They almost universally look down on girly girls for some reason. Maybe because our western culture in general subtly shames things girls of a young teenage tend to be into.
For example; Twilight wasn't even so bad as far as books like that go. I think that girl demographic had a lot to do with it. People are weird.
Sagenerd Meanwhile, trash movies like The Transformers get the okay because “even if it’s not amazing it’s just meant to be fun.”
Toph was such a great tomboy character because it served her actual character traits- she's an earth bender which is an inherently tougher element that requires more force and a steadfast demeanor. She's blind and people underestimate and coddle her, which has forced her to work harder to prove that she doesn't need anyone's help, that she isn't a "delicate flower". She comes from money and high society and knows how to "act properly" but actively chooses not to, and her story never actually references that in the context of her needing to change but allowing her to play the role when it suits her and be herself when it doesn't. Her rejection of the high society life is because of the fakeness of it all not just I don't like dresses. She's a tomboy without tomboy being a defining or pinnacle character trait because her character is allowed to be multi-faceted.
Yea, although my favorite part about her was in the exposiode where she put on make up and liked that too. Wanting to be pretty and liking make-up are not weak in any way and are just interests anyone, tough or gentle, can have. Same with katara, she was also really strong and tough but didn't have to be mean about it, another stereotypical tomboy guy thing
Oh I love the female protagonists in Avatar. We have tomboy toph and more feminine Katara, and yet both are powerful in their own ways without their personalities changing or being perceived as bad.
Toph was a guy to begin with they only made her a girl at the very end
@@clambo7786 okay
@@clambo7786 Her old design was the one they used for Sud
I like how tomboys can be empowering by expressing their individuality but what I really don't like is when some 'tomboys' say that girls are too much drama and she likes hanging out only with guys... It's again kinda like the 'not like other girls thing'. It's not necessary to disregard traditional femininity... In the end, it's all about being free to be yourself without tearing others down and celebrating our differences.
That's why I'd love them to do a video dissecting the "girly girl" trope because it's extremely insulting: it basically says being "traditionally femmenine" means all you care about is boys, fahsion and shopping, thus you're shallow, judgemental and unintelligent. Women are put into boxes, and it's taken us centuries to find our way out!
pixiebells I feel the ‘not like other girls’ only has male friends for lack of ‘drama’ isn’t a tomboy. And what she is, I have a feeling has been mentioned in one of these videos ages back ? Might be wrong . That girl doesn’t always reject make up and feminity in the same way because they are often still set on being desirable as well as accepted by the guys I think.
I was a tomboy as a kid. Probably due to growing up with a single dad . I remember thinking adventurous types like Peter Pan or Tom sawyer were so damn cool. To be fair how can you compare Wendy to pan ?! And the only woman Tom and huck come across is a nagging middle aged aunt. Girls are almost always dreadful in just William too... anyone else a fan of these ?
As a teen had friends both male and female and found more female role models and clothes. But I remember a close male friend when we were about 16-18 so no that young saying he had few female friends, when I offered myself he was like ‘oh you don’t count as a girl... in a good way’ it hurt my feelings way more than he understood or I was mature enough to explain
Damn, I had that phase 8 years ago. Everyone got into puberty and started with makeup, boys and whatever and I just wanted to play my video games after school. I only had my best friend (as a female friend) and boys. I‘m so glad I grew out of that phase and started to open up. I hate it, that years after that it is now seen as „not like the other girls“ because back then I didn‘t think I was better, I just wanted to stay out of rumors and life in peace, because I was really introverted 😬
@@hannah6034 It was the Cool Girl video. But while not every tomboy is a cool girl, all cool girls are tomboys. Cool girls are all about how they are one of the guys and not like other girls and that includes "male" hobbies.
Not gonna lie, I was terrified of other girls growing up. I always had male friends since I was in daycare, and I wasn’t even really tomboyish. I was a pretty reserved kid, but I remember trying to play with the other girls, and found that there were all these rules to playing, where as with guys, if the way you wanted to play coincides with each other, you play together, but if not you can both do your own thing with no hard feelings.
I was also bullied a lot by girls, where as guys were very straightforward in how they communicated. While I liked “girly” stuff just as much as “masculine” stuff, I was intimated because I felt the way girls communicated was more complex than boys and I didn’t know how to navigate it.
When puberty happened, all of a sudden everything changed, and all my male friends either didn’t want anything to do with me, or wanted relationships. It was hard, and it wasn’t until the end of high school that I finally found some good female friends.
I always hated how I was labeled as some slut or traitor to women, because I didn’t have many female friends. People said I was looking for male attention and approval, and to this day I hear women echo the sentiment that women who hang out with men are strange or actively trying to prove some point by “rejecting sisterhood”.
Most of my friends are female now, because I think in high school conformity is priority, where as out in the real world there are less pressures on gender norms, and being an individual is valued above being like everyone else.
I feel nowadays being a tomboy or a girly girl is a lot more fluid, I wear makeup and dresses and I love that and I play rugby and video games and I love that and these things are equally as important to me yet don’t define my character.
Definitely explains the rise of Genderfluidity. Which is a good thing. People can't be put it into boxes. Like I consider myself a tomboy and I mostly dress in a casual way(t-shirts, jeans, leather jackets etcetera) but I occasionally play with makeup and genuinely think some more stereotypical girly things are cute.
Precisely, you can like "traditionally" masculine or feminine interests, without being judged by society for it. Our interests can be as fluid as possible nowadays. 😊
I like this channel but it greatly exaggerates the power of "labels" on people.
Labels are just labels. Its a word that sets down clear definitions over gray areas for the sake of simplification and categorization(when its needed, mind you.)
It depends on the situation whether the extra description of that gray area is required or not.
If I'm a commanding officer of a squad I won't give a fuck whether the squad members are non-binary or trans or whatever. I'll only care about whether they can do their job.
I don't want them screaming their sexual preferences wherever they go. Its irrelevant. And unproductive.
And I couldn't care less about my identity either. Tomorrow I might lose my sex organs. What happens to my identity then? What if i lose all sex-drive tomorrow due to a head injury? I would be crying over that loss of my identity like a stupid baby.
The secret is... That was just another variable in a long list of variables that define ME. I don't need to be overly attached to that *thing* to feel comfortable with myself.
Peace.
Me: I love makeup and I wear it while wearing big baggy T-shirts and jeans or sweatpants.
And thus, I wish to wear a beautiful dress someday.
Some days I like wearing dresses and red lipstick other days I like wearing jeans and plaid. People are more complex
I don't completely agree with the comments with 10Things because she was still herself in the end but let down some of her walls and allowed herself to fall in love AND still be her intellectual, snarky-self ; the love interest doesn't take away from her character.
exactly
I agree, I've always liked tomboys both in fiction and in real life the idea that a tomboy has to reject men or intimacy is one of the things that is wrong with the title, films like little women champion that women are capable of more than just love but you don't have to reject love to pursue whatever else you want.
Just because she got a man doesn't mean she changed exactly
honey - lemon yeah, and if anything, Patrick changes for her. He stops smoking, drops the intimidating act and starts to care about the things she finds important.
Like any good relationship, they bring out the best in eachother - if anything kat changed patrick more than patrick changed kat. She never let herself change for him; she let herself learn that she doesn't always have to be so defensive - not everyone is out to get her. She doesn't physically transform into something better, she develops in her own way like any teen does. She can wear a dress and still tear down the patriarchy.
I think it's weird that being a bookworm is often portrayed as a tomboyish characteristic for girls, but if a guy prefers reading and literature to more traditional masculine pursuits like sports or cars then he's accused of being feminine.
Yes I never tought of it but it doesn’t make any sense
It's like the norms of society just wants us all to stay illiterate.
Back in the day it was seen as masculine because women were taught just how to be a good wife. Education was for men. In my community reading is seen as being intelectual, nothing more.
Back in university I learned that reading poetry was considered masculine hobbies and that novels were considered feminine hobbies. Men studied poetry in school and supposedly didn't have the time to "waste" reading like women did. However, men tended to get published in both of these mediums over women.
Women reading books is seen as "tomboyish" because if you think about these character's they spend much of their time imagining great adventures and acting out their favourite heroes from the books they read...which also had male leading protagonists if they were in the adventure genre.
From what I remember, this idea that bookish girls are unconventionally feminine stems from the fact that reading novels as a man meant you were lazy, and laziness became attributed to not being masculine enough...which sadly made novels more associated with women who "had time to sit around all day reading and daydreaming."
Wow I hope I explained this right...the course was on the history of novels and publishing.
Why are ppl so limitinnng!?
I find Tomboy characters to be very interesting. They are often fan favorites which is understandable.
But what I don't like is when they get put up against very feminine girls to make them seem stupid. I liked iCarly because Sam was tomboyish but still friends with Carly who I'd consider more "girlie".
or Hannah Montana where Lily was more tomboy and Miley more feminine. :)
@@esbeelavallee2568 And in both those cases, neither girl put each other down for being a certain way! Lily was the best best friend.
i don't like that Sam has to be rude at all times, as if being respectful was something girly.
@@mimmidauria5405 Fr like now looking back I don't even like Sam anymore. Her behavior was just unacceptable. Being a tomboy doesn't equate to rudeness. At times I think she's a walking stereotype of what the media perceives as a black person with her rudeness, abuse, love of fried chicken, and at times her borderline disgusting behavior.
@@squidwardtentacles7144 At the base, apparently, Sam Beckett was going to be black. But they abandoned the idea because it would have been too stereotypical and borderline racist.
But i don't know it's rumors
One of my pet peeves about this Trope is when they try to change the Tomboy by giving her a makeover to look more conventionally "Feminine".Fortunately, the Tomboy is more likely to keep her boyish ways nowadays, and not get made over. 😁💙
exactly, i hate that trope too. especially when the tomboy is forced to do it, though her love interest is fine with her not being girly.
Anime are the worst when it comes to this
now she’s told to transition to male
"I was hiding my true self underneath all of these baggy clothes. I was so sad and insecure, but thanks to the generosity of this girl who used to bully me I can finally look sexy for that guy i wanted to ask out"
There’s the implication that once you reach a certain age it’s time to fem it up because god forbid someone might think your a lesbian...and we can’t have that
I didn't see Kat from 10 things i hate about you as being tamed and more feminine in the end , maybe is just my interpretation but is more about she being accepted for who she is by a boy who is also a misfit in and didn't really conform to the "social hierarchy" of high school
Yes I felt that way too. I can imagine them slightly changing the plot of Shakespeare since The Taming of the shrew isn't really modern. It's not the most feminist play so I think they kind of changed the relationship to make it more equal and healthy.
She even said at the end he couldn’t buy her instruments as a way of appeasing her. She never conformed, she only managed to show that she was his equal just as she is, in her non confirming way.
@@aquaticflames Exactly! In fact, saying that she changes for him ends up defeating the whole pourpose of the movie, that is the fact that he is payed to go out with her but in the end HE "screwd up" by developing feelings for her for who she is .
@@alenciaga21
It wouldn't sit well with modern audiences considering that the relationship in the Shakespeare play is portrayed as downright abusive
I agree. Maybe in the original work, "The Taming of the Shrew", you could tell that Kate, Kat's counterpart, had mellowed out, even becoming a traditional housewife. But in the updated version, although Kat softens significantly, she still retains her hobbies and interests, thanks to Patrick's influence, so it's a less drastic change. 🖤
By this definition of tomboy, Belle from the Beauty and the Beast should be a tomboy. She was literate and loved book AND adventures
Yeah, they use a very broad definition of the word for this video - it's basically any girl who is not content to wear dresses or sew/knit.
She was by the standards of her culture.
Apparently, her character was supposed to serve as a nod to Jo March.
I wouldn't call her a tomboy I would call her a nerd.
One of the reasons why I love Belle so much is actually because she manages to be intelligent and adventurous while still being very sweet and feminine. It shows us that you can be traditionally feminine while being independent and competent at the same time.
I love how The Take doesn't only explain films and characters to me, but it also teaches me about real life people, I feel like I can understand so many of them better now on a deeper level. It make me reflect things rather than judging them.
This is precisely why I adore this channel. It helps its audience to see beyond stereotypes, and to realise how often they are employed by the media. 💗
thats definetely what makes this channel stand out for me. its more than a film essay, it also is a social commentary.
You should all check the TH-cam channel Popculturedetective. He has a similar approach
I feel like this also has to do with thin privilege/attractive privilege. Most of these "tomboys" (especially the grown up/teenage ones like Keira Knightley, Sandra Bullock, Julie Stiles) are still very conventionally attractive, with feminine prettiness and thinness, even if they wear unconventional clothes. Their tomboyishness gets to be portrayed as "cute" and "quirky" but I don't think a chubby, POC, conventionally "ugly" girl would be portrayed the same way--usually a girl from that demographic is not portrayed at all in media. This goes for the "nerd" trope too. Portraying the main character as a "tomboy" or "nerd" or any other social outcast group when the main character looks like a model is not that groundbreaking because thin and conventionally attractive people doing practically anything with any personality is viewed positively.
As an ugly chubby nerdy tomboy, I felt this comment 😂
idk about the thin privilege. sometimes someone can be fat and people still love them. it's the individual.
People can still chastise conventionally attractive people's choices to not conform to gender roles. Your comment sounds like you're saying that conventionally pretty/thin girls don't struggle with gender conformity because society already accepts them cause they're pretty/thin. I think a story about someone who rises past gender conventions is inspirational not matter what they look like.
I think that might be another subject really.. it's still hollywood afterall. I've seen independent movies that have cast non-attractive people in mutual roles of romantic settings and it's portrayed fine. But you're right, casting generally goes to the person who, by most standards, is attractive. This also speaks to how the studio wants to handle it's audience. Or how the studio thinks the audience will handle the casting in their movie/show.
@@lunalovett I agree with your point. Pretty/thin people can still struggle with how they present themselves. But I think the op is trying to point out how attractiveness plays a big role in the problematic tropes involved with this one. When it's only attractive actresses playing these characters, that leaves viewers with very specific takeaways. When literally every example in media is played by an actress who still falls into conventional beauty standards, it's almost telling you that being pretty is the number one priority above individuality. It can even encourage a not-like-other-girls narrative by appealing to an adolescent girl's growing interest in being attractive in a way that seems superior to the traditionally attractive girly girl. That's what happened to me
It's not to say that thin/pretty people can't validly feel like they don't measure up in femininity. Those feelings are absolutely valid. I don't know a woman who hasn't struggled with being pigeonholed. Just that it's more an issue of representation. We have plenty of stories where the character has the option to buy some makeup and be an instagram model at any time. If the story can still manage to be compelling for other reasons, that's great. But the concept is no longer compelling on its own. And at the same time, theres this huge demographic of people that see this media and despite having reasons to relate, they feel under represented. In Hollywood we just happen to have a high demand and low supply of stories about characters with unconventionally attractive faces and bodies. Why not encourage those casting decisions? You know? It's really a no brainer from a business perspective.
Edit: grammar, fixing run on sentences
that's what always bothered me, if you like pink you are to girly and should learn to be more independent and stuff; but if your a tomboy then you are criticized for not acting like a girl should, so then you are supposed to stay in the middle and be a normal girl only to be told your not special and should again be different.
So what is it? be girly? tomboy? "normal"? or nothing at all. It just seems like whatever your personality is you'll be judge for either not being a girl or being a girl.
Just let me like whatever the hell i want, i wear dresses and like movies about comics, and that doesn't make me better or worse than anyone else
The catch-22 of femininity. Always too much and never enough at the same damn time 🤯
You solved the puzzle. If you're not a man, you're doing it wrong. -signed, Society
YES thats how i always felt like just leave girls alone damn
Mulan isn’t really a tomboy, if you watch the movie, she enjoyed looking feminine and didn’t have a problem with it, the only reason she dressed as a man was because she took her father’s place, not because she wanted to be masculine.
I hate how they rewrite her character in the sequel in order to shoehorn, "She's always been like this" when that is absolutely not true
I think her behavior is more tomboy-ish, though -- she's definitely depicted as being physically active in a way that betrays her family's expectations. And while she doesn't dress butch, she doesn't dress especially feminine, either. She's definitely not comfortable with performing the hyper-feminine role expected of her when she meets the match-maker.
@@Hakajin I think for The Take she "became" a tomboy by near the end of the movie when she has to stop Shan Yu.
Yes, there even was a scene where she said: "If I'm dressed like man, it doesn't mean I have to smell like one."
She may like girliness but reflection shows she's uncomfortable with something major in her life
As a tomboy type myself, these are some freaking annoying tropes that make me even angrier and hence more "unfeminine":
1) Tomboys hating girly girls because...well...just because they're girly. Thank you misogynistic scriptwriters but no. We tomboys tend to be DISINTERESTED in traditionally feminine activities and in playing with girly girls. Disinterest is a NEUTRAL attitude, unlike contempt or hostility.
2) Male characters somehow feeling threatened by and scared of tomboys, even though we tomboys have similar personalities as (masculine) men AND we are still physically weaker than actual male people, so I don't know what the F those stupid men are scared of
3) Tomboys falling in love with some dudes and then suddenly becoming 1000% more feminine (e.g. from only wearing jeans/trousers to ONLY wearing dresses/skirts) as if we women cannot be in love without being completely "reborn" into a super girly girl.
Sorry to burst those scriptwriters' bubbles but... In reality most adult tomboys, including myself, have solidified masculine personalities that will never change just because we're in love.
I, for one, only like feminine guys to begin with. Those super macho "alpha males" mean NOTHING to me.
In fact, we tend to be even more masculine in front of our long-term lovers and close friends, because we feel more comfortable being who we really are.
@monny287 Yeah now that I think about it, I was also never bullied by boys for looking boy-ish and doing traditional masculine activities. Some stupid older men (including my dad, sorry dad) strongly disliked my tomboy appearance and especially my short hair.
Gosh my dad really wanted me to grow my hair long and "look like a girl for once".
But boys around my age never cared.
On the other hand, many girls at my school and in my neighbourhood did visibly dislike me for being "weird".
Their intolerance actually made me "hate" girly girls for a while when I was a teenager. But now when I think back, I didn't really hate them. I was SCARED of them. I was scared and saddened by the feeling of being rejected by my own gender... just because I don't fit the traditional gender image/roles.
@QDhann about #3, funny thing, I guess I'm kind of a tomboy. My last relationship the guy wanted me to start wearing a lot more dresses, makeup, etc. I went out and bought new dresses and started putting on makeup. Then I thought, what am I doing? I was changing for him. I fell into this trope. Once we broke up, I wondered what had happened to me to think it was okay to change who I was for a guy.
@@seppyq3672 I think it is fine as long as you truly wanted to wear those outfits, and the idea that "he'll love seeing me in that dress!" makes you truly content and happy. I'm all for it. Just follow your heart and do whatever makes you happy.
One thing that happened to me was that, when I got my first job and also a new boyfriend at roughly the same time, I kinda wanted to look like a real "adult" which, in my 22-year-old brain, meant putting on makeup and wearing more feminine/elegant/mature clothings and high heels. My ex-boyfriend really liked it and so were my co-workers.
But after a while, I started to realize that I didn't really enjoy putting on makeup. Aside from the lipsticks (which I still like), I don't think all that foundation/highlighter/eyeliner etc. actually make me look prettier, even though people around me say so.
I just looked a bit different and more feminine. But in the end, I still felt more comfortable and "myself" without the makeup and dresses. So then I slowly reversed back to my usual styles.
All that experimenting was still fun though. I explored a lot of different feminine styles and some of them (e.g. the "bossy office lady") looked pretty cool on me.
I also discovered my HATRED for high heels. So painful...I'm still traumatized 'till this day.
Duuuuddeeeeee that being more masculine that the guys I'm dating thing is actually a serious part of what my only two long term boyfriends brought up as why we didn't work out, and honestly, not mad. Their discomfort at my gender expression is their problem, I'd rather not have stayed with dudes who are intimidated by it. I tend to be attracted to guys who are more masculine than me, but finding ones who don't get uncomfortable with my own masculinity is the struggle.
and YES, as the other commentators stated, it was ALWAYS the other girls who worked to try to make me behave more feminine for their comfort than the boys being jerks. The boys just weren't interested in dating me, not fixated on "correcting" my behavior. Girls on the other hand, they'd try to force my hair to fit their styles, get me to wear different clothes or stop doing things I liked that they felt threatened by. I think it speaks to the pressure put on girls by society, but it's undeniable that in claiming we're the ones with internalized misogyny those girls/women are just projecting.
@@afreaknamedallie1707 I cant tell you how many of my friend told me they'd give me a makeover. Smh
I wish there are movies where the writers prove that being a tomboy is not a phase. Sure, some tomboys may have male love interests but please don't make them grow out of it.
It sucks when now a days, its still the same bullshit but different labels. Then it was "stop being a tomboy and conform to femininity to be taken seriously as a women"
Now its "oh? You're not conforming to femininity? Guess you're a trans boy"
Rarely do we see a women identifying as a women and rejecting femininity in media anymore
I agree. Give me couples who game or ride four-wheelers together (straight *and* gay, if I'm honest).
@@jthememeking my friend Rebecca will never stop being a tomboy
This is all fine until it borderlines “I’m not like other girls.”
Ugh there is nothing more annoying than that!!😂
That's the tomboy trying to be cool.
That’s internalised misogyny! It’s so sad :(
Also goes for the cool girl trope
Even worse is when the guy says "You're not like other girls" and it is meant as a compliment.
Fun fact: the French word for "Tomboy " is "Garçon manqué" which literally means "missed or failed boy". That's messed up.
Sounds like they acknowledge trans boys but don't think we are real... classic transphobia as well
that's awful... also the italian word for it is "maschiaccio" which is the derogatory form of the word male :/
Transphobic af, bruh.
oui, je déteste ce mot 😬
I have a tomboy oc in my space show who features celestial space objects called "Sun & Friends" & I love men so much that when I grow up, I will accidentally fall love in a stranger first glancing... Eventually, the tomboy is a brown dwarf(not Jupiter)
I don't think tomboys are "tomboys". They are just girls who like to play sports and do stereotypical boy things. Plus I know girls who are rough but still like to dress up when they want. I don't understand the concept of the tomboy.
I think so too!
Those exist this vid doesn’t refer to those
masculinity and femininity are still a thing. nobody argues with the fact that you can be girly and do "boyish things". there's nothing problematic with those concepts at all. the only issue is that the existence of both masculinity and femininity are being used as justifications to put ppl in boxes they may not always fit into
To be fair the idea of the tomboy only exists so long as every little aspect of life is gendered (it shouldn't be)
I absolutely concur with your statement! Just because a girl has a few "boyish" interests, such as playing sports or tinkering with mechanics, or has more male friends, doesn't necessarily mean that she has to automatically be labelled as a "Tomboy". 🏀⚽
I loved the tomboy trope as a kid cause family members always chastised me for being one. Seeing them on screen made it feel okay to be one
To me, the getting over my "tomboy phase" was getting over my internalised misogyny and embracing my feminine side, that I had repressed a lot cause I understood, as a child, that being a girl was less than a boy, so I rather be a boy. In my teenager years I finally started wearing dresses and admited finally that my fav color is pink.
Well said!
@nosoynadaoriginal I was exactly the same. I had some masculine personality traits growing up and that was compounded by people being surprised that a girl could do this, a girl could like that. I read a lot literature aimed at boys and I began to fall into that trap and believe that feminine things were lesser and therefor other girls were lesser. As a tween I was immensely proud to not be like other girls. Until I started to get exposed to literature with amazing female characters that were intellectual, athletic heroes but also feminine. And towards the end of my teenage years I started to try dresses and got more in touch with my feminine side. Because I realised that those things weren't going to make me lesser. I am still more of a tom-boy than a girly-girl. I very rarely wear skirts or dresses or makeup but I feel the freedom to do whatever I want. As a child I thought I had to maintain my tomboy image to be taken seriously, which is really sad looking back on it. But now I've grown up and I know that being feminine is just as valid and worthy as being masculine.
i feel for you sis
Same, except I never started wearing dresses. They just made me uncomfortable.
I was exactly the same way. I realized that i was just rejecting traditionally "feminine" things because I didn't want "to be like the other girls." I'm so glad I realized that was stupid when I got older and did/wore what made me happy instead.
Funny thing is growing up I was a girly girl but apart of me wanted to be a Tom boy so boys would take me more seriously, respect me more and not tease me. It’s amazing how subtle misogyny can be.
Same. I wanted to be a tomboy really bad, but eventually embraced my feminine side, and I really don't like when people think Tomboys are cooler, and "girly girls" are sensitive, and uncool. Like my sibling once said they don't like girly girls. But why? Just because they're acting feminine? It's annoying honestly. And then the other way around works too. People should just be able to wear and act the way they freaking want to.
Ruby Hypatia Yeah. There are moments I'm just like "What's the point in having all these terms and stereotypes anyways?" Like why can't we just be us? And thats it?
I feel like the tomboy is mens’ undesirable cool girl to. She’s too masculine and therefore threatens the male ego.
Hell no! Men love tomboys wtf u talking about 😂
@@maxmurray1347 you gotta watch their "cool girl" trope video. Guys usually like "tomboys" as long as they're extremely attractive and not super challenging.
@@bluemingblossoms6899 yup
@@bluemingblossoms6899 I don't just mean love as in anything to do with attraction I'm also meaning as a friend as well. Tho I get ur point.
yep
The fact that black and brown girls like me feel like they can’t even like the things that they genuinely like for fear of “confirming stereotypes” is honestly one of the many heartbreaking things that keeps happening.
Idc though at this point because they’ll say stuff about you regardless. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Just be yourself and live your life the way you want to live it.
Zeniah Wilburn I wish it was that easy as a black girl sometimes I just want to do things that are seen as more masculine just because society says so. But the media already portrays black woman especially the darker skin ones as Aggressive, And sassy, opinionated and outspoken neck/eye roll and all. To say the least, masculine. So I feel I have to calm myself to be more dainty and quiet and less loud by force just to even the playing fields because we know damn well they won't do it for us, they are the ones set us up to be in this position.
Which is why I appreciate them pointing out most tomboys in the media are portrayed as white. They seem to be the only type of woman that can afford to get there hands dirty then jump right back to pastel gloves detailed with lace. like Taylor switching from country to pop. since they already get a verity of tropes from nerd, to damsel in distress, to the sporty girl. They don't risk the idea of having their race even more stigmatized in one space.
I was a girly girl and a tomboy simultaneously. I raced motocross, lifted heavy, and at 68, I was still climbing the masts of a tall ship--but never without my mascara.
keep it up gurl
This is what I aspire to be.
@a_fever_dream ♡ Society considers it to be. You can say the same about racing motocross and lifting heavy and how they are masculine things.
The issue is that there’s an unwritten balance between “cool girl” “tomboy” and unfeminine woman. What if you throw a buzzcut in the mix? Or bisexuality? Or a deep voice? Or a neck tattoo? Society deems you can tip the scales too far and no longer be a “girly” girl.
I like the tomboy character, but as I grew up, I started fighting this character. Not the character itself but the fact that the behavior of a woman who acts in that manner is considered tomboyish. Because it means that there's a certain way a woman is supposed to act and there's a way a man is supposed to act. Which is not true. Social roles were created to oppress both women and men, though women have been harmed much more by them. They are not tomBoy. They are just people living their best lives. I understand that the adjective is just an adjective, but the fact that I still hear parents telling their children : "you look/ act like a boy" is annoying. What is "acting like a boy"? How's a girl supposed to act?
Something else I hate is the fact that some modern literary novels have been putting the tomboy girl against other girls, the "pretty ones", who like make up and heels. The tomboy girl became the new "not like the other girls". This is revolting because it's against everything the tomboy character stands for. This character stands for freedom, for each individual to be unapologetically themselves. To show that there's no one way to woman. To show that you can be a woman on your own terms. And when you make her superior to other girls, it contradicts the mere existence of this character.
Couldn't have said it better
Perfectly said I think there should be no standard of a woman or man we should just be whoever we are girly or tomboy is ok
Yeah tropes are a literary tool.
Its a writing shortcut. Not good or bad by itself, depends on the skill of the writer.
As for Social roles "oppressing people",
Social roles weren't created by "those in power". Social roles naturally evolve in any species as a form of division of labor. It helps streamline collection band management of resources for a population.
I'm not saying all social roles are good. I'm saying that some social roles die out in usefulness as progress occurs, but the exit process is very slow. That's the correct way of looking at it.
We humans have the power to educate, and that's the best solution for training the next generation to adapt new, more practical mindsets.
(BTW men have suffered more from social roles. Only half the number of men managed to have kids compared to the number of women. These men died of starvation, predators, wars and disease.)
Very well written
That reminds me of Max from Stranger Things (who's mentioned in this video).
When season 3 came out, many people complained because she went to the mall with Eleven. Because now, she's not a "true tomboy anymore!" 🙄 Like what? She was still seen skateboarding, enjoying scary movies, being loud, rocking sneakers and jeans, etc. She didn't really change. She just also enjoys shopping trips with her female friend. Not every "tomboy" thinks that they are above "girly" things. People need to stop projecting their internalized misogyny on characters.
I never grew out of the “tomboy” phase. I’m in engineering. And even if I were in the culinary arts, I’d still be a “tomboy”. This is such a deep video. Even when I was a kid and people asked me why I liked doing boy-things, I’d say “I like doing Tiffany-things.”
Like what you like. There are female prodigies in the STEM field and male prodigies in dance.
Oh. And I was today years old when I found out that the Freaky Friday I know is a remake.
Oh, man! If you're talking about Freaky Friday from 2003, then you like a remake of a remake. There was also a 1995 TV movie that aired on Disney/ABC. That one is my favorite!
I hope I don’t grow out of tomboy
I have nothing against tomboys, but i just absolutely HATE when they are shown as somehow better than the other girls. And that's not just tomboys, with many other tropes they act like one trope is superior than the other. It irks me so much. In case of tomboys, when are shown to look down on, say, the girly girls 🤮 why must they act like they are the only ones worthy of anything. People with superiority complexes are disgusting.
What "superiority complexes"
I'll take the stance that tomboys are better than girly-girls. Because that's my fetish! :V
I agree with you, but I think you should keep in mind that it’s a more recent type of movie/show/video game, etc. that actually highlights the Tomboy character as one the audience is supposed to focus on as a main character, instead of an antagonist who is meant to be unlikable to the general audience. Basically, she has dropped the antagonist role but retains the same unlikable traits she was always assigned. Not all tomboy characters, but the kinds this trope is applied to.
I think that's because most tomboys were ridiculed and shamed by all of society but most especially by "girly girls". And movies used to portray tomboys as weird, outcast side-characters. Then as things shifted to a different era, movies started making tomboys the main character, and basically try to switch the narrative. I am glad we're at a time where girls can be anything they want to be more easier, though, and this trope is less used in movies.
Superiority complexes are in everything. Politics, religion, race, favorite music or movie genre etc. Human beings are just deeply insecure and filled with ego, they always gotta be right and constantly look for validation. If it doesn't fit into that worldview, they panic and need to put down the other person until they conform.
Yes!! One of my favorite tropes in tv and film. I also really love Arya Stark for the fact that (more in the books) she’s considered a classic tomboy at first glance (hates dresses, likes to fight etc) but it’s not her rejection of feminine things for the sake of it. More so her rejection of what is expected of her to get married to a stranger and have their babies and that’s it. She wasn’t good at the things she was “supposed” to be good at but she doesn’t let it define her.
Arya says "Other girls are stupid". She's not a good example as she does look down on all things feminine. That line really annoyed me.
Lily I agree. But that line is solely from the show. D&D are clueless when it comes to the characters actual point. Arya even has a line “The woman matters too!” In the books. She doesn’t look down on femininity in of itself. She just has a childish view on it. Similar to Bran who thinks they are “girly and stupid” too. She also has an insecurity she wasn’t good at the things expected of her. Much like Sansa
I want to see a "tomboy" that gets to find love WITHOUT changing their interests and personality and without being "saved".
Falling in love is normal, and a supposed "tomboy" also deserves love if that's something they want.
I want to see growing up portrayed as building upon who you already were, instead of tearing down the foundation of yourself to build something deemed "acceptable" by society.
I want a girl to be be able to be a girl regardless of their interests, and vice versa.
The term "tomboy" is outdated.
Outdated indeed
Its funny cause i used to be tomboyish as a kid and liked a few boys and then was still tomboyish in high school but realizing i didnt like boys, now im 25 and into girly things, but im also gay 🤭
Something I'm very surprised about the comment sections below videos of The Take, is the huge lesbian and bisexual women's presence here.
Reasons?:
-More women watch this channel
-Those out of the closet are much more likely to share their experiences, due to their past courage.
-Population of non-straight women is very high.(nowadays)
-Men don't like to comment.
Which ones are true, and by which extent? Let me know your thoughts.
Happy pride month to you!!!
@@dithaingampanmei Seems likely that more women watch this channel, considering it consists largely of videos with two women talking about female representation in media.
And it also seems likely that men feel they have fewer things to comment on videos like these, considering our experience is not as directly related to the subject.
And considering this video, in particular, is about traits often associated with non-straight women, is it really surprising that a large number of them decided to share their input?
I don't know. Sure there's a smaller stigma and non-binary people have no problem expressing it. Especially online. I just know that this is not the world I grew up in. Something clicked, but I can't pinpoint where. This video mentioned dropping labeling toys as female and male. Something I always hated as a kid were the toys' adverts: Aggressive and bombastic for men's toys, like cars, overly excited, high pitched and pink for women's.
It might also depend on where you grew up.
@@joaomarcoscosta4647 I was reaching a conclusion similar to yours.
But its amusing to see the sheer number of commenters talk about how certain tropes hugely affected their personality development and their worldview. (Gender roles, categories of women, mistaken ideals in relationships, and other such tropes)
When I never had such issues...? 🤔
I always considered books and movies as entertainment. Nothing more, nothing less. Certainly not something to imitate.
I would feel too silly to glorify any fictional character *that* much, that I begin to box myself in to copy them.
This is why Xena was so important.
PREACH! Lalalalala!!! ❤️
Omg Xena 😍😍
Xena who
@@iknowexactlywhoyouare8701 are you for real
Please, do a video on the white savior trope. Thank you.
Omg please
What’s that?
@@iCupcakeMelaniex3 Think of Jake Sully from Avatar. His character is a prime example for the white savior since the film suggests that the Na'vi wouldn't have been able to defend themselves against the humans without his help.
@@Taleneki Ohhhh,oof
That sucks,hope to see the video!
Yes, this example is disturbingly more frequent in teenage works, particularly in "Save our Students" movies, like "Dangerous Minds", "Freedom Writers" or "The Blind Side", where the white protagonist, helps to inspire the oppressed students, who are typically minorities. 🤔
When I was a Tomboy before my teens, I've never been more confident. I knew who I was. I knew how I wanted to dress. I knew what I enjoyed. But a lot happened in the process of growing up and a lot of people used what used to make me confident and happy as a reason to mistreat me. So I grew my hair, I wore dresses again for the first time since early childhood. Nobody but strangers treated me better for this though. I've been assessing what can make me happy over the last couple of years because nothing seems to so I've started to return to what made me confident once. I cut off, 16 inches of hair gone, donated it, got a short pixie a lot of people said I shouldn't. Started wearing clothes that make me confident as me. I go outside, I can walk and walk and walk. I'm starting feel better and this makes me more capable.
I completely relate to this. I've been reminiscing, especially this past few months, on the kid I was until 15-16
and how free, outspoken, sporty, confident (like you said) and "tomboyish" I used to be. And how that changed in my late teens. I remember at one point, I wanted to learn skateboarding but my parents refused to buy me a skateboard because it was a "boy's thing".
Now I'm regaining that side of who I was. Funny thing is, clothes wise I used to wear sneakers and jeans a lot, but I also liked to dress "girly"; so I never got the dissasociation between femenine clothes and the tomboy personality.
@@ValerieBeau I was lucky my parents didn't have a problem indulging the person I wanted to be. But it was more an issue with my peers, my age group didn't seem to think much of hurling out a homophobic or transphobic slur. I'm not sure why but not wearing skirts or dresses was important to me. I did get stuck upside down on a fence post after jumping off wearing a dress for a family occasion and the back of my dress got caught. It's one of my funnier childhood misadventures. 😅
As a tomboy, I absolutely don't understand why other people can't just see this as a form of gender expression instead of hoping and praying that the lifelong gender expression I've been displaying will "go away" so that their discomfort with it won't be confronted. Being a tomboy doesn't mean I'm inherently beset by internalized misogyny. Being a tomboy doesn't mean that I'm somehow just protecting a fragile and more feminine ego with "masculine cliches" or that I'm judging other more feminine people. It's just a spot on the spectrum of gender identity. I'd love if instead of people wishing my gender expression would go away, they'd recognize their personal biases about it.
Nothing aggravates me more than when a tomboy character gets called a lesbian and it's like a huge insult.
It's like an insult because the character feels disrespected by people who make no effort to truly understand them and instead make up some bullshit to explain confusing reality.
but also,, we need more tomboyish lesbians in the media. them all being straight is just a reinforcement that ALL women like men deep down.
@@mimmidauria5405 True. You only see that type of character in shows like The L Word Girl and Tales of the City.
@Alexis Fitzroy The fact that you felt the need to say "I'm the straightest person on earth", is kinda evident that you were offended at being confused with a lesbian.
It is insulting, because it implies that every straight woman should seek the male gaze and approval, and when they don't, it is solely because they aren't interested in men. It also implies that women aren't multifaceted, that the average woman cannot be invested in both sports and make-up, that it is impossible for women to be complex and brilliant beings. It is also super insulting because it implies that the woman who isn't conventionally attractive is ugly, that having features outside of thinness and daintiness is hideous, that beauty cannot be found in healthy musculature or rounder features or short hair or comfy clothing or anything you wouldn't see in a Victoria's Secret catalog. It is a short cut to dismiss women they cannot easily understand, to write out a new reality they've never comprehended, to place us all into a cute little stereotypical box.
The tomboy is considered "cool" until they are competent and a "threat" to men. Some patriarchal bullcrap.
Almost like Black Widow. She's beautiful in a more "girly" way (they give her sexy outfits that accentuate her curves and makeup to look sexier) but she's always in the background of the others, never a true threat. Except to maybe Hawkeye
but they're not ready for this conversation
@@Blue.1889 I mean the problem with black Widow is that, though a cool ass character, she barely had any characterisations until Endgame.
I guess because marvel does not have a Wonder Woman, they tried to make her stand out but everything about her seemed so fake like she's an videogame character and not a real person.
her own solo movie should have came out before, that would definitely flashed out her character
The tomboy is often synonymous with the cool girl another video this channel also did
What do you mean threat
More representation for the Latin community, Mid-Eastern, and many overlooked communities. This includes brown, red, and yellow face.
I second that
Me too!!
YES.
we all want to see people on-screen who look like us, whose stories reflect our own.
Totally with you
Oh man this hits close to home, I grew up being so grateful for tomboy role models like Mulan and Viola from She's the Man 😅 I was thought to be a lesbian most of my life because I rejected conventionally "girly" things, all my friends were guys, and I was very outspoken and didn't take crap from anyone. It only stopped when I finally got a boyfriend and people viewed me as "tamed" kind of like Kat. I was really bitter about that for a long time because I felt like I was put in a bubble by my peers, yet I also confronted the bubble I put myself in by the time I got to college because I realized how much of a negative attitude I had towards traditionally female things. It was like I felt judged for being myself, so I decided to judge other women for being "girly", thus isolating myself more from other women. It was a weird form of internalized misogyny I had that I eventually confronted later in life. Now I'm just me, I don't label myself as a tomboy cause I do enjoy conventionally feminine things like makeup and dresses and I have come to terms with these tropes not always being helpful for women because we are layered individuals.
"internalized misogyny" - yes exactly! They should've used this phrase in their video.
We stan personal growth 👏🏽 👏🏽 👏🏽
Now I think I'd like to see the inverse of this: a video deconstructing the "girly girl" trope and how damaging that can be. It makes women seem like their "naturally feminine" state is to be vapid, self-absorbed and unintelligent, just because maybe they like pink, or fashion, or have other interests seen as frivolous or shallow. I personally contend that women practicing things that are seen as traditionally feminine become toxic *if they're being used to reinforce conformity or to stamp out the gender spectrum, or appeal to the male gaze without any true benefit for the "girly" girl in question.*
Moreover, I occasionally notice the idea of getting married and having children has been disregarded as inherently bad because it's conforming to society, apparently negating any independence a woman has in her own right. And it is true that marriage and subsequent children were for centuries (including in Louisa May Alcott's time), used to keep women down. Women were considered men's property; going directly from their fathers to their husbands, thus the tradition of being "given away" at her wedding. But I think it's different if a woman is getting married because she genuinely WANTS to, by her own volition, not because she's "supposed" to.
Plus, think about any of the feminists in US history who gave us our rights: Sojourn Truth, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Lucy Stone, Lucrettia Mott, Susan B. Anthony? Every single one of these extraordinary women throughout their lives got married, had children, or usually both. In fact. Elizabeth Cady Stanton's wedding was a HUGE deal because she famously removed the word "obey" from her wedding vows because she refused to "obey" her husband and clearly he accepted that. Lucy Stone's marriage was a big deal because she chose to keep her original last name, which was so revolutionary they created the Lucy Stone League which still exists to this day, and serves to encourage women to keep their last name for various reasons, almost 100 years later.
I don't thing being more traditionally "feminine" or "masculine" or anything in between is either good or bad. Just as these "tomboys" no longer need a special name for "a biological female who likes things usually associated with males", the "girly girl" is just as confining, limiting and stereotypical. For example, do I love pink, and shopping, and fashion? Yes. I also love to read, make art, engage in political discourse, and write. Too often female tropes present an either/or scenario. I'm delighted to be living in a time when finally, we can all be whatever we damn well please, gender notwithstanding.
That’s why I like Elle wood’s character so much in legally blond (our down for her femininity but proves herself to others) and Sam from icarly because she’s a tomboy but doesn’t put down her girly best friend or is put down by get
@@disneygirl8694 yes! I love Elle too & i really liked their 2 videos about it: one on Elle and one on the "Dumb Blonde" cliché; they're both great videos by The Take!
Agreed!!
The Tomboy is always an interesting character
She really is, especially when she is compared and contrasted to the "Girly Girl". The Tomboy is usually our down to earth Heroine, while the Girl is almost always typecast as being our mean antagonist. ❤️
It isss
I hate how tomboys usually expected to become more feminine to be friends with other girls
I like stereotypically "boyish" things, and my friends are mostly girls who are into stereotypically "girly" stuff
But still we get along really well and support each other
How do you feel about those engineered mixed groups of friends that have the token tomboy, much like they might do so for specific identities or interests?
@@christopherb501 i usually don't relate to them at all because usually for the token characters being tomboy is the only personality trait
But there are some good examples like Toph from Avatar
I feel like I encounter a lot of women who have come full circle on the tomboy these days, girls who used tomboy as a "proto-Cool Girl" and as they grew up realized they wanted to embrace their femininity, but then started pegging other women who didn't make this change as "trying to be a cool girl" or "not like other girls." But some of us really are just more comfortable in jeans in a T-shirt and have no interest or aptitude for make-up. I think the tom-boy still has a place, simply because there's a label for everything else under the sun as far as style and expression goes. No, we're not remarkable, but that's kind of the point. Retiring a trope that describes me, that I identify with, just because it's no longer seen as "ground breaking" seems silly to me. There are still plenty of girls from households that would prefer her to be more feminine, that hasn't gone away, and likely never will, it just isn't the standard anymore.
Thank you for this ! 💕I don't want to be called a "not like other girls" because I don't care about being pretty and I have hobbies THAT ARE SEEN as masculine. Girly girls are great. Boyish girls are great. As someone that have been rejected all her life for not being girly enough, the meme kinda attack me for not fitting in " feminine" stuff.
Exactly! Not everybody who identifies more with masculine characteristics is suddenly a hateful misogynist, and is actually suppressing parts of themselves in order to be liked by guys. That is such a gross over-simplification, in my opinion. It seems like a lot of people are missing the point: for some women, seeing other 'tomboys' made them feel accepted. I myself got made fun of as a kid (by peers as well as parents) for my more masculine characteristics, and now apparently we're back to that, but in a different packaging. "Are you reallllyyy like that, or are you just trying to impress people, sweetie? Oh, it's just a phase" Give me a break lol, I am who I am. I don't make fun of girls for being more girly, and girls who are more girly should stop trashing on 'tomboys' just because that's the cool thing to do now. Yeah, maybe tomboy-ish girls aren't always the nicest, but neither are the more girly ones (got pick on by some of those all my childhood). Let's chill and stop trying to uplift one category of people by shitting on another.
@@mississipi1103 same💛
This video could have delved deeper into the culture that looks down at things that are considered feminine. It couldve explained how the tomboy trope often made fun of girly things and portrayed masculine activities as inherently superior and cooler
@Sharon Mutoni yeah that video was so good
As a boy I always thought the tomboys were the coolest. I didn't really understand the transformation arc. Did people not see how cool they were before? The familiarity of the clothes and interests made them relatable and if they were good at a something how could I not respect that?
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Pippi Longstocking and Ramona Quimby.
Or Spinelli from Recess
i thought about pipi too i love her
Pipi is amazing
Pipi is not a Tom boy
I don’t like the fact that they portray Tomboys as though we have something against girly girls. I’m a tomboy, and I’ve never had anything against girly girls. I’m a girls girl, so I will always root for other women regardless if they’re overtly feminine or more masculine. And I’ve been friends with girly girls and other tomboys myself so.
I see you're finally talking about Mulan: my spiritual awakening
Thanks for covering this topic. Adult tomboy here who is straight and doesn't mind other girls being feminine. Different strokes for different folks.
Well, you can be a Tomboy and be nice to people.
You can also be a girly girl and not be mean to people.
Or you can be both.
In the end, all that matters is be yourself.
“More interested in books than marriage.” *looks around nervously*
The perfect example that comes to my mind is Anjali from Kuch Kuch Hota Hai. There was something so troubling that she isn't appreciated until she fits into the perfect picture of the sanskaari Indian woman
I think we should stop taking Karan Johar too seriously. 😌
I 100% agree I recently watched this with my sister and after the transformation scene when she starts acting like that kind/shy perfect Indian woman I thought great everything I liked about her is gone.
@@emankhurram that's true.
the only problem with tomboys and “i’m not like other girls” i have is that they put other girls down and that’s not okay
I think that's a defensiveness that comes from being rejected by friendships with girls.
Natasel so you think those girls are superior?
I don’t like girly girls cause they talk about boys it’s annoying they should talk about gaming😎
that's usually a reaction to society usually making fun of them from rejecting their femininity. But there are a lot of tomboys who don't have that complex. Most don't actually, and its annoying seeing y'all group us all together as if the subsection of girls who shame other girls represents all tomboys
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My only issue is with the tomboy trope is what I describe as the “we can’t let people be lesbians”
Yes!
Wait can someone explain?
Well, queercoding is a thing but I know several tomboys in my real life who are not lesbians. But I do agree that tomboys were used a lot as a shortcut to portray a character that was supposed to be a lesbian but the creators probably couldn't get away with it. You see that in teen tv shows in the 80s and 90s.
Im a trans guy and these characters helped me understand gender identity more. My issue with the tomboy trope is they can never be trans men...regardless of their sexuality.
I also worry about the trope going in the opposite direction. "We can't just let people be tomboys". Maybe it's just the media I happen to watch, but now I feel like it's extremely rare to see straight women with really short hair and looser clothes simply because that's how she likes to be. It always has to be the that she's gay, or trans, or "presenting" as male.
Maybe I'm just weird, but I like it when "masculine" women and "feminine" men are allowed to be totally straight. Edit: Feminine women and masculine men being gay is cool too.
Grew up with two older brothers, hated pink, and didn't understand why I had to wear a shirt when the didn't. Last summer I walked down the aisle in my pretty white dress and high top converse. Don't let anyone tell you how to be yourself.
I called myself a tomboy for years but now I'm seeing that I have a balance between traditionally masculine interests (superheroes, shonen anime and manga etc.) and feminine interests (dancing, singing, etc.) I was originally going to say that I didn't want to give up the word 'tomboy' but maybe that would be for the best... I'll have to think about it.
I can understand shonen anime and superheroes being labeled traditionally maculine but Manga is gender neutral, it just depends on the genre
How is dancing and singing feminine
@@lolaa.8161 Men and boys who dance are often labeled as feminine, and, particularly in classic (ballet, tap, etc.) and ballroom forms, assumed to be gay by a lot of people.
As a tomboy I really feel like it's the feminine women who want to get rid of the phrase. They mistake the gender expression side of being a tomboy with outright misogyny to them. They're not wrong that society still looks down on feminine things, but they then turn their frustrations to punching down on a non typical gender expression because some tv shows used it as a trope once ::eyeroll:: and they unironically then try to police the lacking femininity of other women to fit their ideas of what womanhood should be.
I still love using the term tomboy. To me it denotes that I'm not trans, I'm comfortable with my assigned sex at birth, I just have a non standard gender expression.
@Natasel because yaoi is generally written by women, for women. Gay men are more likely to read Bara.
As a kid, I was obsessed with tomboys, even though I wasn’t one myself. Turns out I just had crushes on them, and I was just super gay. That being said, when I was about 5, I asked my mom what the male equivalent of a Tom boy was, you know, a boy who does girly things. Rather than break my childhood gender equality values, and tell me that those boys are just made fun of, she told me they were called Tammy Girls.
Something similar happened to me. When I readed little women I was obsessed with Jo (she’s still my favorite character) so I decided I was going to be like her, even when I always loved dresses and being all princess-like but that was just for a less than a year bcs I found out it wasn’t my thing being boyish and i loved girly things too much xd I still adopted her values about dreams and not being put in a box tho but lately I realized I just had a big crush on her and also Laurie 😂 and it happened with many other female characters too, tomboy or not xd sorry for my bad english
That's adorable!
Something I'm very surprised about the comment sections below videos of The Take, is the huge lesbian and bisexual women's presence here.
Reasons?:
-More women watch this channel
-Those out of the closet are much more likely to share their experiences, due to their past courage.
-Population of non-straight women is very high.(nowadays)
-Men don't like to comment.
Which ones are true, and by which extent? Let me know your thoughts.
I have yet to see a tomboy in a movie or show that doesnt get made to wear femine clothes by the end to symbolize either growing up or gaining more confidence. I hate it. I'd just like to see one or 2 movies where they get a makeover sure but one that fits their masculine aesthetic. The beauty of the tomboy trope as a kid who really was in that was the it made kids like that feel less alone. But it sucks when it tells you can't be like that forever.
Oh back the comment about there being none. someone mentioned toph in the comments and she counts for sure.
Bend it like Beckham. they don't even really get a makeover. I don't know if i should spoil it for you, I would just recommend watching it. also, in Miss Congeniality, Gracie goes back to wearing pant suits and wears almost no makeup, she just looks a bit more elegant and has more appreciation for feminine women. literally her growth is realizing that girly girls she so used to disdain are lovely intelligent complex humans in their own right. her change is not in being girly and tame now, but rather finding the balance.
ForgedFaerie Yeah until the second one where she is the girly one
I actually can think of one. Wendy from Gravity Falls. She is tough and laid back, but she occasionaly wears dresses and stuff. Dipper and Robbie are madly in love with her.
I guess Rin from love live? In most group outfit sets she gets to wear pants
arya stark
As an AFAB trans poc, tomboy characters were very important to me both to break out of the female identity and realize that there are many aspects to being female. The closest role model I had as a kid was Mulan. There is nothing wrong with traditional femininity or defying those norms or being a mix of the two. I'm glad you talked extensively about the inherent reinforcement of the gender binary the tomboy was supposed to defy. Also, more gnc poc!
The thing I loved about the 2019 little women Is that it didn't say that tom boys are better than girly girls may is an Ambitious smart girly girl Well joe is an ambitious smart tomboy.Strong women can be both feminine or anti feminine
it was so refreshing to see that Jo actually cried because she had to sell her hair. loved it.
I never liked being called a tomboy, and I still don’t. Yeah, I’m more of the “traditionally masculine” stuff, but... no? I’m still a girl? I just express myself however I want just like “girly girls” express themselves however they want. It’s just time to accept it.
I always felt some discomfort with the trope. I was a classic “girly-girl” as a kid but sometimes felt shamed by my friends who considered themselves tomboys. When i’m reality I was just a sentimental kid who liked pretty things and I’m still like that. Not because I’m a woman but because that’s who I am. So many of these characters seem to be classic forms of “not like the other girls.” Even implying that being intelligent makes them better than the others. God forbid a woman wear makeup and dresses but still be witty and interesting.
Now that I’m older I can appreciate what it’s done for female representation. But I’m just really glad that it’s become more common to see gender as a spectrum and not belittle sensitivity because it’s associated with women.
RIght? I grew up trying to be a tomboy because media presented them as the desirable alternative to shallow, stupid girly-girls. But that's really not me.
As a kid, I was a tomboy with a girly bff. She was a social butterfly, straight-A student, and a literal beauty queen. Friends with me, this near-feral goblin that loved mud, shiny rocks, and insects. I think our friendship worked because she was comfortable playing in the dirt with me and I was comfortable with her giving me makeovers. She was a big influence over my lifelong rejection of the "I'm not like other girls" bs that so many people tried to push on me. When I got older there would be guys trying to flirt with me with that opening line "oh, you're not like other girls" only to backfire with my response "the fuck is wrong with other girls?!" Also note I had no idea at the time that they were trying to flirt. Hindsight's a hell of a drug.
I am the opposite. I am a plain jane that leans toward tomboyish at times. I am just really boring and plan. I love jeans and graphic t shirts and my glasses. But now that I am older. I am learning to be more feminine and I enjoy it very much. Its really funny everytime people see me dressed up. I still enjoy my laid back style but am so happy with this feminine journey I am on. Im glad these tropes are evolving to recognize that wevarent one dimensional as women.
I do agree this trope can shame traditional feminine things simply fir their association to womanhood. The "not like other girls" thing is very annoying.
Just out of curiosity, did you love Legally Blonde? You sound like you might have felt represented by Elle Woods. (P.S.: I love those movies and Reese Witherspoon)
Francisco Vargas I do like Legally Blonde. I feel like I’m a very different type of traditional femininity than Elle Woods but I do still love the message of that movie and how it tears that trope apart.
When it comes to "tomboys" growing up, I feel like showing them as "gross" and unkept is done by showing them with oversized clothes, unbrushed long hair, etc. It's funny that they never have short hair, wear suits in formal occasions, or anything dapper. Tomboys are never presented seriously, because they are seen as "failed women."
Even in our culture, this is still ongoing. Look at our formal wear. Jumpsuits have only recently been seen as formalwear for women, and suits are still out of the equation. Even "women's" suits still are really gendered and don't look nearly as nice as "men's."
Elegant tomboys are perfection tbh sadly the only one I can think of right now is Haruka from Sailor Moon xd
there are many styles of jumpsuit but there are casual and formal styles. but yea they should show them in like better fitting clothing but for quite a while loose or baggy was the style for girly or tomboy
TvTropes calls that the Bifauxnen.
oooh19 True, but the fact that the only socially acceptable way for a woman to wear pants and be formal is to wear a outfit resembling a dress instead of just wearing a full on suit says a lot. It's still pretty recent too bc I even remember there was a controversy over a high school girl wearing a jumpsuit to her prom (edit: homecoming) because it was considered to be too casual (edit: and the venue required women to wear dresses)
Natasel No it isn't, otherwise no men would ever get dressed up. Keep your sexist comments to yourself.
you forgot about donna from that 70s show
please do "The 'On and Off' couple troupe/ abusive couple troupe" and include Maddy and Nate from Euphoria
Chuck and Blair
Kelso and Jackie
I used to be called a tomboy a lot when I was younger, my body grew faster than I was comfortable with and being limited to girly and feminine activities and traits felt like I was being held back and punished for being a girl. I hated how being viewed as a girl meant conforming to a strict set of invisible rules and I didn't like constantly being judged for not being good enough at being a girl. I was also very shy and introverted and hated being stared at because my body matured early, and I think I was too young to understand why I was feeling this way and just started idolising the idea of being a boy instead. I used to wish I was a boy all the time because then I wouldn't have to deal with the social pressure of being a girl, and ended up being labeled a tomboy. As an adult though I know its fine to be who you are no matter what you identify as
I'm someone who does consider myself a tomboy. I just enjoy doing more boyish things. Obviously masculinity and femininity are based on stereotypes but screw it life is full of stereotypes and aren't completely evil unless it's used to insult someone. Though I am a tomboy, I don't like sports and I'm not huge into video games.
Being a tomboy doesn't mean I'm gay or that I'm trans like many, many people think I am. People should be allowed to express themselves without judgement or assumption of sexuality or gender. I'm a girl. I just like being more typically masculine. A girl who acts typically feminine shouldn't be judged or shunned for doing what they enjoy. A boy who is typically masculine shouldn't feel pressured. A boy who acts more feminine shouldn't be bullied or be assumed to be gay. All genders are valid and must be allowed to express themselves without judgement of others.
Simple as. Let people be people.
I love how Toph stayed true to herself till the very end. She never became something she wasn't.
Aside from the...oddity of her middle age, at least...
other than that whole "Being a cop" thing
For me the saddest thing about tomboys is that they're typically portrayed as happiest and most accepted when they become stereotypically feminine, I would love to see tomboy characters to stay as they are and for people around them to change and accept them for their uniqueness. Because it's okay for a girl to have stereotypical masculine traits, just like it's okay for a boy to have stereotypical feminine traits, and non-binary/gender non-conforming identities need more positive recognition. As someone who loved tomboy characters growing up, I'd rather see tomboys get the ending they deserve (that is gaining acceptance without changing themselves) rather than to disappear.
One thing about the tomboy trope that has always bothered me, is that some people assume that just because a girl is a tomboy, then she's a lesbian, or vice versa, if a woman is gay then she must be more tomboyish than feminine. Seems so narrow minded.
I absolutely LOVE the character of Star Butterfly from the show "Star vs the forces of evil" because her interests are in things that are both traditionally Feminine and traditionally masculine. She loves cute things and wearing dresses, but she's also a scrapper and doesn't act like a well mannered lady. No one calls her a girly girl or Tom boy, or insists that she SHOULD fall neatly into either category. They just accept that that's her personality.
That's the kind of female character I wanted to watch when I was growing up as little girl who felt like I didn't fall into wither category of Girly girl or Tomboy either. I fantasized about going on awesome sword fighting adventures and to wear a pretty dress while doing it.
BTWs yes I am aware of the notorious ending. I'm kind of sick of it that every discussion about this show now has to be about it and it feels like I can't bring up any positive aspects of the show anymore.
I enjoyed watching these, but sometimes I feel like they are all over the place and trying to find stuff that isn't there. Kate in 10 things does not change the way they explained. Neither does Gracie in Miss Congeniality. Grace realizes it's not that bad but she is still tough throughout it. Showing you can be both things in both movies. As per usual, I felt myself thinking "such a simple way of viewing stuff".
The tomboy has to fight to be herself. The older women try to make them more traditional like the old school Princess Allura, Scout from To Kill a Mockingbird, and the Princess from the Smurfs.
I wish they would focus more on stories about *older* tomboys in film and literature. We usually only ever see them portrayed as teens or preteens in their respective sources. Glad to see that there's one on this list.
I want to see a video on the weird goth girl or the rebel Asian girl with dyed hair lol
Watch their "Weird Girl" video
That second one seems very specific. The only rebel Asian girl with dyed hair I can think of from the media at the moment is Tina from Glee. Maybe I'm missing something here.
Elizrebezilma Dommdo nope there’s more
Gogo: big hero 6
That girl from the show 6ixteen
The girl from Deadpool
Blink from X-men
Tina from glee
And I think there’s a few more.
@@mynameisreallycool1 To contribute to Paris Edit's list: Lane from Gilmore Girls and the Asian girlfriend from Scott Pilgrim in the Scott Pilgrim vs. The World movie.
Marie Lastname thank you I missed those ones
I was literally just going through your videos trying to decide which one to rewatch. Perfect timing, and a trope I've wanted to hear your take on 😊
This trope was extremely popular when I was a kid. It was the start of the third wave, and femininity was considered weak. It wasn't until I was in college that I realized just how oppressive that notion was. Now I appreciate femininity for what it is and no longer look down on people for it.
While we're talking about gender expression in connection to sexuality, how about looking at the Camp Gay trope?
I think that girls should be either tomboys, girly girls, or inbetween if they feel like it.
In yuri manga(girl/girl romance) there’s also the trope of the more “tomboyish” girl who secretly wants to dress and act more feminine and it can get pretty tiring
I loved the tone in which you said "finding yourself" 😂
I just wanna thank this channel for making me more aware of the esteriotypes of women in movies. I learned so much and grown myself, thank you for your contest and videos I really enjoy watching your videos.
I hate when people calling me a tomboy when I'm just vibin
Nothing wrong with being a tomboy
@@yes2395 of course there's nothing wrong with being a tomboy, but I don't like being called a tomboy (a term associated with maculine things) when I'm just not being feminine. Makes me feel like they only perceive people as either "masculine" or "feminine" instead of seeing that those things exist within a spectrum of gender expression. As if not being feminine automatically makes me masculine when I'm simply existing. Idk if that makes sense
I'm so glad you did a video on this. This is the reason why I stopped referring to myself as a tomboy because then people would just put me in a box and project stereotypes onto me. Sometimes I like to do things considered "More feminine" and most times I don't and its okay. I'm glad producers are starting to portray a better version of the Tomboy that break stereotypes and allow people to just be themselves
I think a “Sexy” Latina Trope would be a good video! Kind of parallel to the “Angry Black Woman”
They did one called the spicy latina trope. It's really good!
I want your take on The Magicians, one of the most underrated tv series ever.
So the 80s tomboy was just girls who couldn't afford nice dresses? Goodness grief. Can we get movies where the "tomboy" is also a girly girly. A women who doesn't mind getting dirty and also doesn't mind dressing up?
yea and plus you can be poor yet girly. and if you simply cant afford nice clothes or maintenance then it's not your choice. also some moms cut their daughters' hair short bc it's "easier".
I definitely fall into this category.
@Lisa H You mean realistic characters? The only woman I ever met who almost exclusively wore dresses and was also pretty large chested was also someone who was a sports shooter (target shooting on a range with her own sport shooting rifle) who felt like people should have basic survival skills and who liked to climb on trees (while wearing a dress, of course). And from 2002 to 2004 I went to school with a (very young) woman who looked very feminine (body type and clothing style) and who was from a smaller place where they had no girls' (and later women's) soccer team. So she was always on a male team.
Edit: "Met", not "mean" ...
Gal Gadot's Wonder Women is the best example, and unfortunately the only example, I can think of who doesn't follow gender roles in a way that's truely inspirational. She neither rejects nor prescribes to femininity or masculinity, but instead chooses the qualities that are best for her regardless of gender expectations.
Ok so i am a straight woman and my tomboyishness started with my dad making me wear comfy boys'clothes when i was little simply because they are more comfortable in this sauna like tropics we live in. I don't even think og myself as a tomboy honestly. I mean, we all are people and everyone is unique. Media portrayal through categorisation is simply flawed. I mean, I don't ever wear make up because i sweat a lot, it all dissolves into my neckline, and i honestly prefer splashing water on my face all day long, but beleive it or not, i do make up for my girl friends, and i am proud of my fashion choices for parties and stuff. I am their go to person if my friends need to accessorize or stuff. So yeah. And I've had short hair throughout my life because it is curly and growing it out gives me horrible hairfall and breakage. And i look cute in bobs😊 It's nothing to do with stereotypes. I'm glad these are now being incorporated into mainstream media
Notification goes off... video goes on!
I waited all weekend for this! ❤
I'm living for the sass in your tone as you describe the tropes.
I like to see a lot of girls here commenting that they're a combination of tomboy and girly. Also I love seeing how a lot of girls are saying they don't care for a label and simply just do whatever they love! Its great seeing people becoming more nuanced with themselves!
I cant believe you gals brought a King Princess interview into this one! They're amazing and deserve more recognition
I like how this trope is subverted somewhat in Game of Thrones. We are encouraged to prefer Arya's Tomboy to Sansa's Girly Girl but we come to not only sympathize with Sansa but also realise that she is also smart, observant and just as capable as Arya.
I think the trope makes more sense in histoircal setings, where there really was quite a major separation of what women and men had the right to do. It took bravery to risk your social standing and livelihood to challenge these norms back in the 19th century for example.
Anybody noticed how the tomboy is always admirable in some way, like you can't just be a tomboy but you have to be pretty or be a certain weight or be some kind of 'genius'?
Am a tomboy and I never look down on the girly girls...they're things girly girls can't do what tomboys do and they're things that girly girls can do that we cannot do...after we are both girls with different characteristics 🙃💪💞
Movies and tv shows referenced here:
- Miss Congeniality
- Brave
- 10 Things I Love About You
- The Princess Diaries
- The Fits
- Pariah
- Mulan
- She's The Man
- Bend It Like Bekham
- Mean Girls
- West Side Story
- The Breakfast Club
- Never Have i Ever
- I Am Not Ok With This
- Zack and Cody
- Avatar
- Stranger Things
- Game of Thrones
- Little Women (1990s)
- To Kill a Mockingbird
- It Takes Two
- Punky Brewster
- iCarly
- Some Kind of Wonderful
- Tomboy
- Love & Basketball
- Cheaper by the Dozen
- My Girl
- Little Women (1933)
- Little Women (1949)
- Euphoria
- Little Fires Everywhere
- S€x Education
- Tudors
- Candleshoe
- Mulan (2021)
- Freaky Friday
- Paper Moon
- The Bad News Bears
- Valley Girl
- The Facts of Life
- Alex Mack
- A League of their Own
- Harriet the Spy
- Terry the Tomboy
- She's All That
- Clueless
- PEN15
- Spider-Man: Far From Home
- Booksmart
- Set It Up
- The OC
- Chilling adventures of sab
- Pose
- Good Girls
- Full House
Don't forget Little Women (2019)
The brief inclusions of Toph Beifong in the opening and closing sections really made this video for me. Great thesis and production as always.
I was a tomboy as well as a nerd growing up but I’m trying to become more girlier now as an adult. I played video games, watched WWE, and loved playing sports with the boys. I hated wearing dresses, skirts, and heels. Mulan and Jo were some of my favorite characters as a kid and I always preferred Mary Kate over Ashley. My mom always got on me for not “ acting like a girl “. I grew up with two brothers who I was always fighting with. As an adult, I’m trying to become more girlier because I want to be seen as a feminine and attractive adult.
question is the only reason you're doing it because you want to be seen as a more normal female by society. if that is isn't it pretty negative to do that since you're just removing a part of your self just to conform to a old way of how a adult female should act . if I'm being rude or insentive sorry.
well "tomboy" is seen as empowering sadly but sometimes girls/women enjoy being girly. even treating yourself to a 5 minute hair style is seen as "too long" but it's worth it to treat yourself. I was pretty much girly but some of my friends spent an hour on their hair and makeup but it can take less time like maybe 10-20 minutes
it always seemed pointless to me to spend way too much time on it
Jolyne Nizuma I’m a Black woman. You don’t understand why it’s important for me to be more feminine. It’s rare to see beautiful and feminine dark skin Black women who look like me in the media. I don’t want to be the angry, aggressive, unprotected, warrior, manly black woman. I want to be feminine and protected.
TheLeah2344 as another black female tomboy I can completely relate to you wanting to be more feminine as a form of empowerment. By the same token though the reason you don’t feel protected is not because you “lack femininity” but because we live in a racist sexist world with Eurocentric beauty standards that undervalues black women, so don’t blame yourself.
When Toph says "Let's break some rules" it was so perfect in the context of the essay. I cannot appreciate your editting skills enough:)