Are you implying that there are no serious consequences for vandalism and that those men are applauded? Where I'm from they're at best considered children who need to grow up if not straight up brute idiots and criminals.
So glad someone said it. The amount of times I've been called "cringe" and other names for liking bts in specific just makes me want to get off the internet and live in a bubble forever.
@@ihatethescammys.loveyn.5979 its has always been popular to label popular things as 'cringe' especially if it involve what women/girls like. so those people can pretend they're 'unique' and 'not a sheep'. there's always sexism undertone in that too, basically everything women/girls like are inferior to what men/boys like. fangirls fainting seeing their fav idols are crazy and cringe, but male sport fans destroy things in rage are acceptable. when pointed out the obvious double standard, they will say 'Its the sport culture, you don't understand because you're not a guy.' 🙄 i always ask people who hates on something if they hate it because of specific reason or they following the trend to hate on it, or they want to be unique by going against the crowd? i honestly don't understand why hating on people interest is even a thing.
@@elenymm No one is judging those men as hysterical fan boys when they freak out over a football game and get drunk through beer, scream, cheer, cry, get angry, destroy stuff or start a fight for example. But girls and women who enjoy their time on a Boyband concert or kpop concert and scream, cheer or cry, get described as crazy and hysterical.
still being a kpop stan as an adult has been interesting. i think being a fangirl is fun, but i definitely think toxic fandoms and the predatory tactics of entertainment companies has left a sour taste in my mouth over the years. :/
Yup agreed, I’m I guess considered a fan girl and for sure was deep in the fandoms back in 2007-2013, but now I just listen to the music here and there…I was more of a girl group fan girl than boy groups but it was pretty equal fangirling regardless for me. Growing up the fan wars and all the shady stuff does irk me and in some ways it got better and some ways worse.
Honestly it's so interesting how knowledgeable we are about the kpop music industry and how we acknowledge the cons and pros of the kpop system yet we still do what we do.
@@keychains5806 It's something I've been trying to wrap my head around. I got into kpop well into my twenties so it really has been weird watching fandom behavior, especially since the group I liked the most became super popular. I try not to participate in behavior I find troublesome, but sometimes it seems almost unavoidable. The whole thing is in a way rotten to the core.
@@justanawkwardnerd I think it was just a fashion thing, but one of the things people would make fun of vsco girls for was "OMG save the turtles" or something like that. Like why are we making fun of girls who want to save an endangered specie? Oh that's right, misogyny.
The parasocial relationship is pretty frightening. EXO's Chen married his long-time girlfriend and they were having a child together. He literally has to issue an apology for getting married as a grown-up adult. The Kpop fan culture needs some examination.
mte but I'm at least glad when he revealed he's getting married, it's on his own terms, unlike getting exposed by dispatch. it took him getting most of the brunt to start normalizing celebs revealing their marriage on their own to their fans
The parasocial relationship is not the issue. It's how it was nurtured that is. You train fans to act how you want and expect of each other but the labels become carlesss in the nurturing that they don't take heed so long as they hit the big numbers profiting
My ex-boyfriend disdained boy bands and loved the Beatles. When I reminded him that the Beatles started as a boy band (with my mom as a fan long before he was born), he openly sulked.
the thing is that later they started writing their own songs and pushed boundaries of music, cause they were one of the first bands ever, modern boybands will forever be just boybands
@@sweetbunnybun ummm, a lot of modern boy bands write, produce, compose,... and actually work on their own music. Or at least the ones that I know about.
Skinship isn't a kpop thing. That's just a part of Korean culture. When I first moved to America I didn't get why guys were so afraid of touching each other. I don't mean that in a sexual way but it's just... they never gave casual shoulder pats or hugs to each other and it took me a while to get accustomed to. It was only when I got older that I realized toxic masculinity was a thing.
I think a big part of it is exactly as you said “I don’t mean it in a sexual way” here in the US we literally do not have a way to communicate the concept of platonic or friendly physical contact. You either touch some one sexually or you don’t touch them at all and since most guys aren’t trying to have sex with their male friends they don’t really touch.
thank you for this! its the only part that irked me in this video. a lot of people who are used to western culture forget that when they consume cultures from other countries they should have an open mind about whats normal and whats not.
Exactly here in Asia skin ship between homies / best friend are extremely common it's in Asian culture But seriously the way male idiots being labeled "gay"because of normal skin ship just boils the blood out of me like wtf?
I definitely think it's important to show these forms of platonic affection on-screen so that people dont get up in arms about it in real life, but unfortunately a lot of viewers miss the point and use that as an excuse to ship bandmates instead. said fetishization doesn't do much to ease casual homophobia, which a lot of toxic masculinity stems from.
i used to be OBSESSED with those “funny moments” videos, because they created an idealized image of the popstar in my head. For a lot of girls, they seem to become someone you can almost be friends with. but as i grew older, i eventually realized how “overly perfect” and micromanaged these lines and personalities became. it’s really sad to think that someone was being forced into a “perfect persona” like that.
@@Lorena-eh5cl you totally speak my mind! I've been a boy band fan for years, first the Jonas Brothers and 1D when I was younger and now at 26 (which I still see as "young" but idk), I'm a fan of some kpop groups and the amount of times that younger fans called me old is honestly ridiculous, so this video actually was therapeutic - we're not too old, others are just toxic :)
A lot of people refer to the fan-behavior as a phase, but that doesn't have to be the case at all. I've been a fangirl my whole life, starting with books, movies, series then youtubers, then actors and then kpop groups. I'm an adult now, but I'd still consider myself a fan. Several aspects of my behavior and my relationship towards it have changed over the years, but I never thought of it as a temporary thing and I think I'll continue being a fan because it's fun and oftentimes it's a very effective form of escapism. I was never blind to the downsides or the "dark" side of it, but it doesn't outweigh the good times. Finding people with common interest is also extremely important.
Ikr, I'm still a fangirl through and through but I'm chill about it, I try to not be toxic or annoying and I'm totally against gatekeeping, if you say you're a fan of something than you're a fan.
yes! people always roll their eyes or smile in a weird way when I start explaining something that I'm a fan of but I know very well that it's a very positive thing for me because these books/singers/shows/artist make me happy and entertain me and it's the best feeling when I can tell someone about them but then they act as if I was weird. and I know myself and I know that I am not obsessed because with everything there are kind of waves when I interact with one of these fandoms more and then let it rest, I'm not so crazy that all I think about is this thing. sorry if this is very inconclusive.
I'm the exact same way, fangirling has become more of a way for me to appreciate different types of content wholeheartedly. Like you, I enjoy learning and investing time into music, movies, books, etc. but try and remain self aware about how this type of behaviour is perceived. It's interesting seeing how people react to boyband "obsession" differently to any other collectors obsessions.
Duuuuuude. Telling *_rock men_* The Beatles were one of the first boy bands as we know them today, and watching them foam in the mouth as they spiral, is and has been one of my favourite hobbies for the looongest time! I don’t think you understand how great hearing this from someone else is lol.
Haters need to hear this more often, because I do tell them that every time someone in my family tries to make fun of me and it shuts them down immediately. "You still listen to One Direction? Haha. - Yeah, and we still listen to the Rolling Stones. We still listen to the Beatles. Everytime you watch CSI, the theme song comes from the Who. They're all boybands, now what?" Literally no reply after this.
I don't understand this comparison. The Beatles may be a "boy band" in the most superficial sense (mostly in their early days), but the difference between The Beatles and most modern boy bands is that most modern boy bands don't write their own music or play the instruments. The Beatles wrote and played all their own music. I'm not saying this to put boy bands down, I liked some of them in my teen years too, but comparing The Beatles to modern boy bands is kind of absurd
@@guen4413 BTS writes their music, they don't play instruments on stage (yet, there is many years ahead) but Beatles also didn't dance. They are two different bands but their roots are the same, first they were discovered by fangirls. There is video somewhere where they read the articles about Beatles, how "they are awful, their bowl cuts and suits atrocious and they only good for histerical teen middle class girls" but then men found them cool and oh miracle they became cool rock band🥴 it is all bad while girls like it passionately, but it is absolutely acceptable when men do it🤷
@@AlexaOleksa The thing is that boy bands are defined as vocal groups (who may also dance), meaning they don't play their own instruments. Semantics, I know, but this whole discussion is semantics. Also, BTS doesn't write all their own music. Some, but not all. Dynamite, which is arguably their most popular song, wasn't written by any of the band members at all. Again, I'm not saying this to put modern boy bands down, I'm just saying it's different
This is pretty easy to answer (easy, not simple): psychologically it's a safe love. One defined only by your imagination. It's what's so appealing to many people. A real relationship is hard, and scary, and you learn very quickly (I hope) that you don't have any control over the other person (or people, not judging), and worst of all, it can end. The danger of it is when someone tries to transcend their internal fantasy by trying to make it real. We need to be cognizant of our parasocial relationships.
This is so true lmfao after a very bad relationship I'm starting to feel comfortable with the idea of a boyfriend only in these "safe spaces" liking a celeb creates. I know it won't happen so I don't have expectations and I have fun with it exploring the idea of love and what I want in a relationship without exposing me again to another person that can hurt me like it happened. It's kind of healing only if we keep things rational and logical
Is it truly safe? Maybe if you see it for what it is and leave it behind at some point or at least change your approach to it as you get older. I think some people end up causing themselves long term damage just by living in a fantasy.
That’s not the case for everyone who likes a boy band. Actually it’s a little annoying how we can’t like something without it being analyzed as some sort of bizzarie, or psychological phenomenon.
I remember reading something similar in regards to the Takarazuka Revue and how the male characters are acted out by women, although I don't remember if this was from Jennifer S. Prough's Straight from The Heart: Gender, Intimacy, and the Cultural Production of Shōjo Manga or from Deborah Shamoon's Passionate Friendships: The Aesthetics of Girls' Culture in Japan.
@@LondonBlue fr there's this one time when soccer fans in my country mocked and insulted kpop fans for being unruly in a concert. sure what the kpop fans did is embarrassing but the audacity that it came from soccer fans - the very same soccer fans who vandalized a newly built stadium, mistook someone as another team's supporter and beat him to death - is ridiculous to me.
@@leticiavillalobos5247 yep! that happens almost every time a team wins their major tournament in boston. Non-sports fans often just stay inside on those nights.
Lmao as a kpop stan I laughed so hard cause it reminded me of when some of us kpop stans well go " omg he has hot hands" and it's like a random picture of an idols hands 😭
I would like to correct one thing : HyunA and Dawn were kicked out by Cube NOT because they were dating, but because they went against the company by confirming they were - the day after Cube had issued a statement saying they weren't. So they were fired for standing up to management, because management were pissed at them for making the company look bad. They had no "dating ban" : HyunA was the most senior artist in the company and Cube had the same week responded to a dating rumor involving two of their idols, both of them in pretty young groups, by "they already broke up". A VERY funny thing is that Dawn and HyunA were in a co-ed group together (Triple H), and that both of the group's music video had them acting like a couple (with the third member, one of Dawn's bandmates, Hui, being a very literal third wheel, since he was the one driving). So like, they were dating in plain sight and just trying to pass it off as the group's concept... So the company didn't want them to go public... but okayed that concept for some reasons. When it came to their contract termination there was a lot of flip-flopping from the company actually, the only thing that was done promptly was to remove Dawn from his group - because the fandom was basically exploding after the news came out, and keeping him in could easily have tanked the other nine members' careers because they were still fresh and not that successful. HyunA ended up calling out the company on her instagram so they WOULD terminate her contract and she could go on with her career and her life. And in the end their exit was a pretty happy one, Cube could have kept Dawn in a dungeon for the next five years if they'd *really* wanted to be asses, but let them go both. Sorry for the tangent but it was kind of fascinating to witness this from the kpop sphere so seeing it addressed as 'they were kicked out for dating' is kind of reductive.
wasn't hyuna also being labelled for a good while as a predator/abusing her authority as dawn's senior by being too close/touchy with him prior to admitting they were dating? i'd thought that's why cube went up in arms to deny them being romantically involved.
@@HetaClaude Actually I think that the "sexual assault" accusations are among the reasons why HyunA&Dawn decided to reveal they've been dating for two years --because Cube denying they were dating, really made things look worse than it was.
lmaooo this is what happens though isn't it... they have idols act super close and literally homoerotic toward each other but the second someone is actually dating welp
@@abimon76 My point was that them dating wasn't a problem for the company, contradicting an official statement was. They went against their superiors, they were fired - it's just company politics. _Fans_ are the ones who react badly to dating news, not just because of parasocial relationships but also because idols are expected to be on the job all the time and having a relationship outside of their group is seen as not being dedicated enough (which is dumb from our pov, but you have to take Korean work culture into account). Fans see the borderline-homoerotic fanservice as part of the job so it's not a problem for them.
Has anyone noticed how it's ALWAYS the men who shame girls for kpop (and boy bands in general)? I've never met a girl who'd shame me for it. It's always the men. Edit: also the excuse for degrading us is "they're gay". Like what. despite the fact that they aren't gay, it makes no sense to me why would that be a problem. Why can't other men take care of themselves and look good without getting called gay.
I (and friends of my mine who enjoy kpop or boybands like 1D) have been shamed for it by women but it’s always been women with internalised misogyny and often in the presence of men. It’s a shame cause I just think to myself you don’t know what you’re missing out on 😌😌
The only girls who do it are the pick me ones :( I never cared too much about k pop, but i totally understand the craze 'cause I was once a teenager completely obsessed by justin bieber lol and even now I get a bit obsessed with new bands or artists I discover
oh girl u’re lucky,,as someone who goes to an all girls school, i’ve met a fair share of western musician fans who dunk on ppl for liking anything asian (and i live in asia), be it our own country’s music or anything else. yes, taylor swift is talented af and some of my all time faves are literally by her but that doesn’t mean that being into kpop is disgusting or something to laugh about. not when u urself read one direction scenarios on pinterest 🙄
@@ana.ish7 If you live in asia, that's most likely why people hate asian music. People tend to hate things from their own country no matter how good it is.
You mentioned the fetishization of Korean men but another thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth is the infantilization of the members. Especially now that I'm older, people try to defend group members for racist acts by making them seem like a child when really they're grown men. Or they get mad when a 25-year-old man has alcohol. It's so strange
Yes! Back in 2009, I'd think it's so "cute" when they're having little spats and stuff and someone pointed out that grown men fighting isn't something that should be viewed as is. There's a lot of things that you can misunderstand when you're younger and heavily invested into the media, and it's important for fans to learn that their idols are human too and are probably the complete opposite of their personas.
they will get so shocked when they see certain idols drink, swear, smoke or talk about smex and they’ll be like: 😱 *LE GASP* I thought he was innocent~~ when he’s in his late 20’s
It’s kind of their cultures fault for the infantilization of these entertainers. I see the TV my Korean MIL watches and there is this purity and cuteness that they push on these young adult artists. Also, many of their song themes are a little more innocent compared to the western bands, hence pushing further that puritanical and cuteness image.
"The standard for masculinity in the east . . . looks like he washes his ass." I absolutely cracked up and had to stop the video to catch my breath, because this difference is spot on. I mean, it's not that much of a joke, right? I remember when the story of the woman who had to keep replacing her partner's sheets and underwear because he honestly believed it was un-masculine to clean his backside was going viral.
I wrote my Bachelor's thesis on girl groups and the image they usually portray and it's much the same as boy bands (since they're also usually marketed to girls), except that they play more into the friendship image - you can be part of this friend group where we talk about relationships and self-confidence, etc - instead of the potential boyfriend. At it's core it's pretty similar though, it's all about social connection and feeling part of a group (which is true for sports team fans and these days all these influencer friendship groups' fans too). Sure, it's all done on purpose but at the end of the day it doesn't even matter that much if it's real, if the fans get that connection out of it anyway. Sidenote: I'd like to add that the Motown groups in the 1960s were a huge influence on boy- and girlband culture (most of them were put together by producers! and the fact that as black groups they were hugely successful in the 60s among white Americans (and Brits), and not through white covers but as themselves, is really interesting! they get overshadowed by the popularity of the "British Invasion" of the Beatles and co. in the US right around Motown's peak though)
@@Yue_yunn thank you!! it's not posted anywhere online unfortunately, sorry! 🙃 but my comment is basically the gist of it - especially in their first albums, girl groups are usually (at least visually) portrayed as a friendship group you as the listener can feel like you're joining. and the individual members are given/have images that different people can relate to (the spice girls are the most obvious example of this!)
Boy bands traditionally have a teenage girl fandom, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with young women being excited about something they're passionate about... but I have to say the BTS fandom goes way beyond the teenage demographic. ARMY made a census of the fandom this year, with more than 500,000 participants and it turns out almost 70% of the BTS fandom that participated is made out of people over 18 years old. I'm a BTS ARMY and I'm about to turn 36, and I'm part of a community of armys that are around my age, so I know for a fact that ARMYs are from all ages and backgrounds.
that's such a beautiful thing about being an army while people may label us as crazy fans but to tell you the truth this level of devotion is not something I have seen anywhere with any band. while there are negatives to everything I can positively assure that the positives outweigh and I think big part of it comes from the genuine support of the members themselves like they are respectful and supportive of us as well. and I wasn't a fan as a teenager so idk how it would be different for me but as an adult BTS has only had positive impact on me cuz their message and their personalities have inspired me to be a better version of me for the sake of me. it feels more of a connection as humans to them like it's okay to not know them or them knowing you and still having this respect established as strangers like that's the best part. also from their most recent songs and how they have been recently I feel like they are slowly morphing themselves more to be directed to adults since they themselves are proceeding to their 30's as well so their message would be more relatable to people who are closer to their age demographic and I'm quite excited to see what they have next coming for their solo ventures and individual colors.
@@evianblue you're so right, and this connection between BTS and ARMY is very hard to explain. We don't know them personally and they don't know us, but there's a respect and love that, like you said, I haven't seen before between other artists and their fandoms. I'm a devoted fan cause they give me so much, that I feel the need to give them back. Their music and message has been of great support to me through the hardest times and an endless source of happiness and inspiration. I'm too super excited for what's to come for BTS and ARMY. With BTS and ARMY in my life I truly feel like I never walk alone.
This is not a singular BTS thing lol. Most women are still fans of their groups even once they are older. And all bands have fans older than they are. BTS isn’t special, it just seems that way because their fan base is big because they began to market right at the height of the Korean media boom. I’m not saying they aren’t extremely talented, but their fan base has the same range as other fanbases previous to them. And if I’m a little annoyed, it’s because of the gross comment about Mina “not knowing because she’s a SM fan 💀” as if that’s somehow an insult. Can people stop their pathetic Stan wars for one second and take in the fact that this was meant to be an informative video on boy bands in general?
@@PunkHime89 I'm sorry but I think BTS are special. I'm not young, I was a Backstreet boys and Hanson fan back in the 90s, and they are OK, I mean I still like those groups mainly because of the nostalgic factor. Then I became a fan of rock when I was 14 until today... Bands like pink floyd, muse, Foo fighters, queen, led zeppelin, black sabbath, nirvana.... Until BTS came to my life, and I swear I still can't believe I'm such a devoted fan of a boy band. I'm telling you a little bit about my musical interests cause I'm not someone anyone would think loves a boy band, but I do cause BTS are special. I have seen my fair share of bands and musicians, but it's rare to see a pop group that writes lyrics with such depth, poetry and compassion. They truly care about the message they want to give to the world and mostly, to their fans. I can't even begin to explain how important they have become to me and how talented they are in so many ways, but their lyrics and connection to their fans is something rare. BTW, I don't get involved in fan wars, it's not my thing. Even though I think it's weird Mina didn't mention BTS by name and just said "kpop" when BTS is the biggest band in the world right now, it's not enough for me to get involved in fan wars. As you can see, non of my comments attacked her, I'm just speaking about BTS in a very respectful manner. And it's OK if you don't like BTS, you don't have to.
One of the most annoying (/harmful) stereotypes about boybands' fans is all of them being completely unreflected and immature. So even just watching the beginning of this video I'm really glad that Mina is not distancing herself from fangirls but rather sharing her own experiences. (And thereby not portraying them as some inherently cringey sub-human group of people.)
They're not immature, it's just that men always have hot women to look at but women don't get good looking men to admire. So when a boyband shows up, it's a festival.
If I could just make a minor correction...? The term "skinship" isn't a kpop exclusive term, it quite literally is just a normal word in usage in Korean (actually it's a loanword of a loanword from English (meaning skin to skin contact from mother to child) to Japanese (any kind of physical affection) to Korean (which retained the Japanese meaning)). it refers to any kind of platonic, non-s*xual physical affection/touching between two people, including family, friends, and lovers - so as an example, a hug would be considered a type of skinship - and isn't limited to two people of the same gender. I think it's a bit of a misnomer to say it's a kpop term, unlike something like stan or what not. There's been a lot of interesting articles written about the concept of "skinship" as a cultural thing because it doesn't really have a direct translation despite the term being in English.
Thank you for the definition. I have heard and read this word through social media, YT videos, and Vimeo videos. And sometimes the person talking speaks so *fast* that I don't know the terminology or the background sounds (really annoying) keep on blocking out the word. I love learning different verbs, adverbs and terms from other countries! ❤
I think a lot of people learn new words, concepts, views etc through kpop & assume it's limited to that, rather than part of a larger culture. I like some kpop & find the differences in culture & societal norms, compared to here in the UK, incredibly interesting. I often go down rabbit holes & try to learn the wider context & what is common in which countries. Of course some nuance is lost & hard to understand unless you hear it directly from people who have experienced it but social media (& google translate) makes assessing those people so much easier. I find different cointries/cultures incredibly interesting, I went to a multicultural school so maybe it set me up for being more aware of differences & norms? I do think some over- romanticism & almost fetishisation of kpop idols could be improved if people were willing to realise many aspects aren't limited to kpop & different countries try/cultures often have positives which they can like & even emulate.
i have ALWAYS been upset about the way men talk about teenage girls and the boyband experience. like FIRSTABLE as mina said, the beatles were a boyband and they would be NOTHING without teenage girls. all these jerk musicians who cite the beatles as their main inspirations.... you would be nothing without teenage girls. secondable, i got into hockey in 2015 and whew girl. there is no tangible difference between teenage girls at a kpop concert, wearing band tees and holding merch and men at sporting events. none. men paint their faces, wear sports jerseys out and about (not just at games), and i personally have seen real human men cry at playoff games. like. sports fans and boyband fans is the same.
even worse, there are several instances of huge groups of mainly male fans basically rioting after big games like the Super Bowl either because they lost or won and that makes them feel entitled to trash cars and set things on fire. but teenage girls are the ones out of control, obviously
@@clarasundqvist6013 RIGHT??? the part that kills me is that they riot when they WIN, too. why are you destroying public and private property because your team won a trophy? as far as i know, teenage girls have never been responsible for millions of dollars in property damage. and ANOTHER THING! every time you hear about festivals where there was like. unruly fans and property damage, it's ALWAYS men! i just watched the woodstock 99 documentary on netflix and uhhh,...... talk about crazed fans. anyway!
as someone who went through all possible boyband phases in my short 20 year old life (One Direction in middle school, followed by my kpop phase in highschool that still continues today) I felt like a lot of the things you mentioned are definitely true. Especially the thing about how these boys are portrayed as "family" - many times (for kpop groups especially) there is so much content of them goofing together or playing games and it boosts up the viewer’s serotonin, giving them a safe place. And every single kpop groups produces SO much content that you always have something to watch. By consuming so much of them living their lives together, working together etc. you develop a sense of codependcy on these people that don’t even know you exist. You know their inside jokes, the hardships they have been through, who they share a room with in the dorm, what is their favourite late night meal - and this leads to a very weird situation where you know so many details about some idols that live far away from you to the point where if one or a few members leave or get involved in a scandal this feeling of codependcy crumbles down and that is why many fans accept such news so hard. I remember when I was 13 and I read the news about Zayn leaving One Direction that I cried for two consecutive nights in my bed. Looking back, I realize why that happened now and how dependent I was on getting serotonin from this group in my younger years. Because with boygroups, as you explained in depth, it’s not *just* about the music. It’s about their personalities, private lives, their relationships with one another. It makes many fans feel like they truly *know* these people and are *friends* with them, let’s not mention the ones who get delusional and start thinking they own them. I don’t regret being a boygroup stan, it has brought me much joy throughout my adolescence and still does, but I have learned how to separate myself from these artists and appreciate their craft without relying on them for getting serotonin because at one point it just becomes unhealthy. I remember when I was at the peak of my BTS phase i kept wondering how I would keep on living when they go to the military or stop being a group and I’m so glad I’ve grown out of that.
Some people act so weird towards boy band fans, like I've been accused of lying about being a lesbian more than once just because I like some kpop boy groups - as if it's impossible to like their music without being attracted to them, it's so weird.
@@elenymm Depends on the person in question of course, but speaking from my experiences with the people I met in fandoms, I honestly would say that the music is one of, if not the most important part for the vast majority. But then again, seeing some awful songs get really popular does make me wonder whether the fans actually like it or just stream because they like the artist. XD
@@luisab3079 when you think about how much other content kpop groups constantly put out, the music that they put out a couple of times a year gets lost in the mix sometimes. It's great if people focus on the music because there is really good music in kpop. It is also true that there is a lot of blind loyalty. Just try saying that you think the new Blackpink song is underwhelming and watch the fireworks. Lol
Building on that point made about men acting the same way at their sporting events, it reminded me of how my dad recalled having to be tear-gassed at a SOCCER GAME, because the crowd was too rowdy. I think it’s important to note that girls have the same pent up energy that we see men expressing, yet we are ridiculed for showing it, while men get to play it off as just “having fun”.
@@elenymm you knew exactly what they meant and just acting stupid on purpose. “RIDICULED” did you just glance over that part? When do you see sports fans get ridiculed as much as fangirls do?
As a former Directioner in middle school/early high school, the fandom gave me connection and ability to be my full teen girl coming-of-age self with other teen girlies who has the same passion! It was a full time hobby running 1D fan pages on multiple social media platforms. Honestly, a wonderful time in my life to come home to 1D fandom when I was an insecure kiddo at school
i would like to argue that one of the many factors fangirls are overly protective of their faves is due to the way these adult critics brought them down so much before giving them a fair chance. boy/girlbands are always so talented and amazing, the prejudice is so unfair and then they're always baffled at the backlash
Hello! I'm currently a 21 year old black man. I've been a big fan of BTS since early 2017, and as I've grown up into early adulthood, I'm seeing a lot of what you're saying about teenage girls and women in general from an outside lens. I was introduced to them from a female friend of mine at the time and since then, I meet many other girls and women who stan BTS but very few boys and/or men. And it's very disheartening to see that the narratives surrounding girls and boy bands/groups hasn't changed much at all. So I stand in solidarity of the fans who aren't crazy stalkers. Fanfics, shipping, etc. can be fun and a stress relief if not taken too seriously or projected onto the members in real life. Overall, I appreciate the video; I love to analyze the phenomenon of boy bands and why I stayed in the fandom (besides the music being so FUCKING good). I especially appreciated the historical aspect, which I never knew about. Yet another instance of black creatives being ripped off of and not receiving credit or profit.
Kpop fandom culture is WHOLE thing on itself, very complicated to talk about, especially since there's a lot of fans ALL AROUND the world. Language, culture, age, everything makes people's experiences vary so it's very hard to judge us as a monolith.
@@starr2870 very debatable tbh. There's a lot of confirmation bias (eg. My experience was bad, than it must mean that everything is bad) and just biased point of views in general ("my fandom is great and the others aren't") etc in discussions like this so it's hard to really judge. But in the end I'll always prefer to NOT generalize, that has always been my way to look at.
@@starr2870 still debatable bcos ive seen other fandoms such as star wars and genshin that have been scarily toxic to a level i haven't seen in kpop, every fandom has weirdos and angels and every persons experience depends on who and how much they encounter in those fandoms.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on this topic, as it's truly important. I also think that bringing attention to the exploitation boybands face in global music industries, and how deeply woven that exploitation is in the very identity of a boyband, is something that can always be helpful. I think boybands are extremely varied and nuanced musical acts, many of which have great songs, great public moments, and great contributions to pop culture--many of which have the opposite. However, there is a common thread of exploitation that they face, and stigmatization that their fans (usually young women, as you point out) face, which does not get covered with the empathy and research that it deserves, in my opinion. I do have some reservations, however, with the video. Even though the video is framed as a defense of boybands, and to some extent, of the young women in their fandoms, I truly don't think the video gives that much time towards actually defending boybands and fangirls. From the initial historicization pointing out the manipulation boybands utilized to gain fangirls and appropriate Black music (all valid critiques and important to note), to the many examples of 'manufacturing' that creates these boybands in the second section, to the many examples of pathological and abusive fangirl behavior in the third section, the vast majority of this video, in my view, is actually offering a pretty standard view of boybands as 'fake' and fangirls as 'crazy.' In particular, I think this is troublesome given that the video seems to aim for the opposite, and labels itself as the opposite, and acknowledges the harm of this view, but still ultimately perpetuates it. It's not that the boybands aren't exploited and manufactured, and that the fangirls don't often partake in negative behaviors--it's that these are the ideas that dominate discussion of boybands, that people already know and weaponize to attack young women for their fandom behaviors and to attack young men for their public facing images. In other words, it felt more like a 'dark side of boybands' video than a 'defense of boybands' video. I know you also received critique for including BTS in the thumbnail, but avoiding discussing them in the video (there are, instead, numerous anecdotes about your admitted former favorite group, EXO), and while I think that was probably not the best approach, I also don't think it is all that horrible a thing to do. I understand why you may have chosen to avoid talking about a group you don't feel connected to; however, it does make sense that some were put off by your inclusion of them in the thumbnail, and utilization of them throughout the video in b-roll. I'm sure many people, including many young fangirls, came to this video with the expectation or hope that it would present an alternative, liberating view of their fandom engagements--not necessarily a depiction of perfection, but a depiction of a different side of their behaviors, a depiction of the good parts of fandom and boybands that many people don't talk about due to industry exploitation, misogyny and homophobia. With that, I find it kinda disappointing that your video doesn't dive into those ideas for particularly long. Even the section wherein you touch on fanfiction being a creative outlet feels like a backhanded positive note. Overall, I wouldn't be surprised if actual positive perspectives on boybands spanned less than half of the video. I do hope that, if you decide to talk about this subject in the future, you could maybe revisit those perspectives and shed some more light on those positive aspects, perhaps talking about your personal experiences as a former boyband fangirl, the ups and downs, and the positives that you saw in the experience that perhaps others simply wouldn't understand due to prevalent ideas about fandom and young women. All in all, though I didn't particularly love this video, I appreciate the effort to bring forth these important conversations--ones which I have studied for a few years and are quite close to my heart.
Thank your for putting my thoughts into words! I couldn't figure out how to explain my feelings at the end of the video, but this summarizes them well.
I mean ... it's misogynistic and taps into archaic notions of female hysteria and presupposes that any woman who isn't prim and proper and quiet is deviating dangerously from the appropriate normality of what women should be. But we all already know that; what else is there to say?
@@RenaissanceRockerBoy Dude absolutely not. Calling something a phase is NOT inherently negative. In this case it's not negative whatsoever. Normal people all have phases. Phases are not just for rabid/emotional/hysterical people. I had a knitting phase. Some people knit for their entire lives. But it's completely normal that your interests would change because we as people also change, and it's a given that teenagers go through a lot of changing and hence most of the phases would happen in that period. For boybands it's even more likely that it would be a phase. First of all, hormones will do sh*t whether or not you want them to. Second, having a lasting relationship with a friend or partner is hard enough, you'd have to love them as you both go through all sorts of metamorphoses, what more a parasocial one lol. I mean when justin bieber went to jail I tore his poster off my wall, i was like 11 😭 it's like that. Young people are messy and beautiful, let it be
I love this vid but just a correction: It’s not “saesang”, it’s “sasaeng”. The former means “world”, and the latter means “obsessive fan”. I love the work that u do Mina! Sending this to a lot of my male counterparts who love music so they can understand fan culture beyond stereotypes 🙏🙏
world would be sesang (세상) and not saesang (새상) though, although the pronounciation is similar so i'm being hella nitpicky, otherwise you're completely right
when it comes to kpop, i feel like the community is so strong because there are SO MANY ASPECTS of it !! apart from singing (covers) and the music in general, there is for example dancing (many people enjoy learning kpop choreographies and form dance groups or attend random dance plays), collecting merch (photocard trading/selling communtity is very nice - apart from the scammers :// ), drawing (fanart from realistic portraits to cute illustrations), writing (mostly fanfic tho ☠), even video essays!! (analysing outfits or complex lores) something for everyone, you know ;)
parasocial relationships are truly an interesting thing to analyse because i feel like as long as boundaries are kept, they are a healthy thing. it only starts to become a problem when people don't realise that neither you or the person you are a fan of truly know one another, and they act as if they will genuinely date this person who has no idea they exist.
BTS is the only boy band I have ever been a genuine fan of and I'm closer to my 30s than my teens, I just really relate to their lyrics, they tell the truth no matter how ugly the truth is. Their music can be angry, aggressive, scathing and sarcastic, other times it is desperate and vulnerable and most often it is deeply empathetic and comforting. While they validate how hard it can be to live in this world, they always include a thread of hope that life can and will get better.
I feel exactly the same - just you expressed it so well! Most of us who truly love the whole BTS canon of music see it as much, much deeper than “boy band,” and I actually feel a sting when they are always referred to that way. I think it might be because a lot of non-fans know them through the context of songs like “Dynamite” or “Butter,” which, while lots of fun and happiness, do nothing to showcase their depth as lyricists, composers, or social commentators. It felt like they were expressing things we all were really experiencing, socially. And they brought out the darkness of that while still reminding us to love ourselves and to keep trying, that the world is worth helping. It’s hard to explain that to people who just see pink hair and stop at that point.
@@bhaktichaudhary1797 I love how the people who see the pink hair then stop at that point tend to accuse fans of being superficial, such delicious irony. I tell people I became a fan after watching them perform Go Go, wasn't really interested because I thought it was a party song but turned on the subtitles kinda going "what the hell, I'll see what they are singing about." And literally the first lyric I read was "there is already a mortgage on my future." Immediately after reading that lyric, I was overwhelmed with an impending sense of doom as I contemplated the reality of my economic future, but accompanying the doom was relief that someone had said it. I've been a fan ever since 😂
The refusal of society to just let teenage girls enjoy things without labeling it cringey, basic or embarrassing will be the death of me Edit To be clear I am not accusing Mina of doing this. I agree whole heartedly with everything she said. I simply just needed to get something if my chest
Can we just admit that it can be cringy and embarrassing though? Maybe it's just that I am older and don't care because I like what I like, but I think self awareness goes a long way and shows maturity better than anything else.
@@elenymm I think we can let it go because it ain't harmful - the social criticism of it pushes young women more into it as 'No one understands me'. If people were more open minded, young women will pass through it normally like a phase.
The music literally does suck though. Boy band music is some of the most soulless , generic music made out there. Even 1D members hate the music that they made as a band because it's manufactured and frankly it sucks. And yes fandoms are absolutely cringey and embarrassing especially the 1D fandom.
@@joebidenjr5902 I don’t think being generic is a bad thing, just because A Hard Day’s Night sounds like every other pop song from that era doesn’t mean it’s not fun. Every music genre has very good and very bad music lol
I wasn’t into boy bands as a child, I was a small lesbian who desperately wanted to be not like other girls. It wasn’t until I was about 17-ish that I actually decided to have fun and enjoy music, but I used to tell people that my celebrity crush was Zayn lmaooo. So thanks Zayn for being my beard
I used to be a fangirl but I’m also not interested in men. I feel like kpop stars were safe crushes and people to say I has a crush on while I was closeted. I mean they were literally unreachable: they were in korea and famous.
The non threatening presence is why I fell in love with Tom Hiddleston. I was 22, going through my first break up, I worked at a movie theater and there was Loki on all the posters (Thor the Dark World came out less than a month before the break up, which in hindsight I knew was coming). And I was in a bad mental state. My love for him isn't gone 9 years later, but it is muted. It's no longer a huge thing. I'm happily married and projecting my love that had just been rebuffed onto a man who could play the villain and act like the nicest guy in the world made me feel safe. He would never disappoint me. Loki wouldn't think I was too fat. Tom Hiddleston wouldn't dump me over the phone. It was safe.
Hanson was asked in an interview a few years ago why they are considered a boy band like BSB instead of just a band like U2, even though they've always played instruments and they never danced. Hanson answered: Sexism. Any time there's a fan base of predominantly girls/women, it is instantly dismissed as not being legitimate. Even the Beatles weren't taken seriously until they created an album that the screaming girls' boyfriends liked (Sgt Pepper's). I'm not a major Beatles fan so idk for sure if his example is true, but I always liked his answer.
There should be some type of repercussions that protect BoyBand members rights, health, & safety from obsessive fans and predatory management. &these videos need to spread more to show obsessive fans how they are part of harming the Boy band members. That is NOT love. Give them privacy! Stop bullying their friends! Accept their choices!
I was a Tokio hotel fan long ago and I never involve myself much with the fandom because even as a teen I tough some fan girls were kind of too much,they fought about the members "love" as if they were their girlfirends and treat the band as their property,like if they have any contact with a girl they freak out and were toxic , I still stand by this just because you like and suport a band and buy their merch does not mean they own you something or they are your property and have to stop having a life outside the stage that applies to pop boy bands, k pop, etc
@@VelvetKatOfficial The fact that as soon as someone disagrees with them or doesnt know them nor they are interested,they get so bullied... not to mention how women always get harassed... just as mina mentioned sehun situation ... those same people also flipped when he was asked if he was gay, as if its a bad thing...?he himself said that he likes that he has male fans
I find the critique on boy band fans so interesting. I have been a bts fan for years now, and survey after survey on fandom demographics have shown that the largest percentage of fans are in their 20s and 30s! I do see that as time goes on there has been an interesting shift in demographics. I’ve seen a number of older women and men being part of these fandoms too
I think that trend needs to be explored more. Do the psychological mechanisms at play with younger target audience still apply? Are there any different reasons and ways in which older fans engage with the fandom or are they indistinguishable from the teens? Their economic impact is felt because someone's gotta pay for all that merch and 9 different versions of one album.
@@elenymm bts only did 4 versions of albums years ago when everyone was doing bundles in the west & east. i know bts are the face of kpop but youre talking about the other groups who sell bundles and 10+ albums to get a facetime call from their idols lol
yeah BTS are getting sponsored by phone and cars brands, you can't say that they only target little girls with products like that because who the fuck buy a car for their 12 years old, obviously it targets older demographics
Coming from someone who’s never been into boy bands but was part of fangirl culture (in the form of Wattpad and fanfiction): it makes me super upset to see all the double standards forced onto teenage girls even til this day. Girls can like Starbucks without being called “basic” yet every boy in existence plays video games and that’s “complex and individualized etc…” It’s like society can’t leave girls alone, which is just another extension of misogyny since boys pass by virtually invisible. And this is no different for fandoms; while there are valid criticisms to be made about fangirl culture, it’s often used as a way to tear girls down with no alternative outlet for their feelings. I was teaching a kid’s summer camp a couple weeks ago, and what struck me the most was the boys loud and stark protest to anything they deemed “girly”. And these boys were no older than eight!! It’s virtually conditioned into them to view feminine activities and entertainment as inferior as _literal toddlers_ whilst the male-centric stuff, such as robot fighting, are considered “the standard” that all people can enjoy (we were watching robots btw, and the girls had not a word to say about it. They didn’t complain half as much as the boys when it came to traditionally masculine activities). And this mentality seeps into adulthood and reveals just how deep the vitriol towards feminine coded behaviors and traits runs. I’m so happy I’m about my twenties, because I was getting exhausted of having to defend myself against society’s unfair labels put on teen girls; but it’s also extremely sad at the same time. Men can engage in violent, derogatory, and insanely harmful content that actively destroys many women’s lives and it’ll be passed off as harmless fun, while girls can barely have a crush without being treated with disgust. Just look at the way corn and soft core corn is perceived versus smut, to give an extreme example. Smut is most commonly consumed by women, and (while it definitely can perpetuate toxic ideals and expectations) is largely mocked whereas corn (and things like Girls Gone Wild, which is notoriously exploitative and debilitating to the girls featured in it) has active, negative consequences involving real people that society readily encourages young boys to consume, or at least diminishes the harmfulness of. It’s just frustrating that we’re constantly held to an insanely higher moral standard, while simultaneously being expected to carry the emotional labor of teaching and correcting young boys on the bad habits that were never course corrected for them in the first place.
I say this as someone who generally does not enjoy playing video games. I can assure you no one thinks of guys playing video games as "complex and individualized." Video games are seen by a lot of people as a waste of time. Think of the stereotype of the fat nerdy gamer who never leaves his room. There are equal amounts of criticism for both sides, you just mostly see criticism against women because you are a woman. Most men will mostly see criticism directed towards men because they are men. People just need to step out of their circle to realize that. There are different corners of the world/internet that criticize different things. Most people only ever see the backlash against their own demographic because it is directed at them. Yes, a lot of this kind of backlash is unnecessary, biased, and hurtful but it exists on all sides
as someone who is a kpop stan and had a cousin who was a directioner. i realised in kpop that in multiple fandoms for boy groups there 2 sides, the normal fun enjoyable part and the worryingly delusional side of the fandom that are cringey and obsessive.
Tiny correction: Obsessive fans in Korea are called "Sasaengs" (사생) not Sesang (세상) . Sesang means world in Korean and is a common term. Edit: corrected Romanisation of 세상
Thank you I knew both these words are different but when she said saesang I got so confused and tried to come up with an explanation for why they'd call obsessive fans world and thought maybe it's because by being obsessive thier own world only revolves around the celebrity so they can be called world
The scary thing about the boyband formula is that it works no matter what. No matter if you know they are being abused behind scenes and no matter if you know deep down that the ships and their relationship is not a 100% real. I made fun of my big sister for liking The Backstreet Boys and I felt like I was an intelectual for realizing the formula and thinking that she was being overdramatic over getting tickets for them but then in 2011 I fell for One Direction and I couldn't concentrate on anything else except them, they literally made me learn english just so I could understand their interviews, I was a whole new person and if anyone made fun of them I would go insane as well I was convinced Larry was real, and with all this my little sister made fun of me and said that she couldn't believe I fell for their propaganda which is now awfully funny since she fell for BTS like two years ago and can't stop talking about them. I can't even make fun of her because I was there. It's like a curse.
nahh yall larry shippers are a different breed lol and good for ur sis for finding bts. shes in good hands they r genuine and talented guys who at this point r family for life, like there isnt anyone who loves the members more than the members themselves
Ay chica! You didn’t even mention my favorite two boy bands that not only left a mark in my life, but also made the term “boyband” as it is today. They are Menudo from Puerto Rico and New Kids on the Block.
When it comes to looks and kpop, I find fans to be hypocritical. They will criticize the companies for having visual as a position and forcing plastic surgery and diets BUT THEN they will also drool over the abs and tight clothes of idols all the time. Not to mention that in practically every group the most popular member is "the prettiest one". The only reason why companies act the way they do is because fans act the way they do. And these HUMAN BEINGS are stuck in the middle of everyone's expectations.
They will not only drool over abs and tight clothes, they will *also* lash out at every idol they deem not pretty enough, too skinny or too fat. I swear there is no middle ground among kpop stans. If we follow their logic, everyone is anorexic or obese. I support many Kpop artists, but I lost count over the number of times I came across inappropriate comments from kpop stans. Note : I'm talking about kpop stans as a group/community, not as individuals.
@@ashrise my least favourite part of it is that they will say Korean fans do that and Korean culture puts insane pressure. Ok, sure. That in no way implies that international fans are better, but they always act holier-than-thou.
I get your perspective, but I find that the people who seriously and genuinely criticise the standards and pressure in the industry are usually not the ones who blindly "drool" over someone's looks. (If you see the kpop fans as a homogeneous group it might come across that way but that's not really realistic.) Additionally, I think it's entirely possible to criticise that people are held to insane standards and still acknowledge that someone is indeed pretty in your opinion. For example, people who are mainstream-attractive are also more successful on TH-cam. Yet I'm not gonna stop watching Mina just cause she fits into that high standard and is above-average pretty.
@@Mad.E I have actually seen someone bash a company for their standards in one tweet and then tweeting a fancam of an idols butt in the next one a couple of minutes ago. And it definitely is just one of the examples. Recently an idol from my favourite group talked about being on a diet and fans were all "oh no, eat what you want". That guy is always objectified for his looks. And when I commented that you can't have it both ways, people justified their behavior by saying that the entire industry is like that so what can they do. (Think about that for a second. The hypocrisy blew my mind.) Of course not all fans are the same, but I honestly can't put that disclaimer in every comment. I also think there is a difference between acknowledging that someone is handsome and publicly commenting on how you'd like to pin him against the wall and lick his abs (that's just a mild example, hopefully you get what I'm trying to say.)
To me, one of my "golden years" is once being a very huge fangirl of kpop boygroups since 2011-2012'ish. I met a lot of amazing people in the community for a long time until the lockdown 2020 happened, i kinda lost my spirit after it, but, all i can say is, it was good while it last. 😊
2010s Kpop era was something else. It was a very supportive community which it didnt really matter which group you were listening to, people were appreciating the korean culture and their music in general. I still listen to Kpop time to time but it's not the same. My music taste definitely changed but also kpop fandoms these days are pushing me away. It became super toxic as it became more popular.
@@bysirene i think once people started the “__ paved the way” arguments, that’s when the rise of toxic stan culture took off. like fan wars existed before then but things really escalated around mid 3rd gen and it’s only gotten worse with international kpop stans that get into kpop during the 4th gen era. it’s just a different environment now
Also In defense of kpop (even though this can apply to both girl and boy bands) It was weird. Like at the time i got into it 2008, it was "weird", "edgy", "foreign", "different". I was also into alternative music at the time and being in a country white town liking anything Asian was like mind blowing for the hicks around me. Since I was already into alternative music kpop was an easy thing for me to get into since I felt like I was going against the grain. Funny got bullied for liking kpop because it was unknown......now i get bullied by people online because its so popular.
@@ewoma8234 Oh no yeah im not saying its bad or that we should gatekeep people from getting into kpop. I was just noting how funny full circle it is. I'm glad its more acceptable now and people are getting into it much easier. Its also funny because when i started making amvs in 2009 on youtube it was also expected if you liked anime and made amvs you 99.99999% of the time were also a fan of kpop. Like so many classic amv's and mep's were with kpop songs. But I also notice now a lot of anime fans will shit on kpop when that so wasnt the case back then
I did the same thing, just many years later - I've been into alternative music for a long time (though I am still a fan of many pop songs too) and then discovered Kpop right before it blew up. It seemed like a bit of an odd transition but it worked somehow! I did (and still do) get some judgement for it, but I imagine it's way better than it would've been in the past!
This literally happened to me too and it's unfortunate but at this point looking back at it, yea it really sucks that it happened that way but what you got out of it was a happy connection between the content you were watching and sure these bullies fuked around and said stupid shit but in the end you formulated new interests gained a more interesting variety of likes and dislikes and people can't really take that from you, it was you who had a fun time liking kpop and anime which you still do now and its pretty cool to some people and dumb to others and will always be that way, as for the people who bully you, what they say and do is out of your control so imo it might be better to focus on the bright side and enjoy what you like reguardless of what these people say and take the little win of knowing you arent the one aggressively putting people down
@@atomicfluff487 Very well said! And absolutely what people say about it now is out of my control luckily for the most part I try to stay out of the drama, like not having a twitter or anything. If someone can be enlightened or wants to learn some info i'll give it to them but if they just hate on me no reason, there isnt much I can do. I just know it makes me happy and thats all that matters c: I have people in my life who also have similar interest so i can just be happy with them
I'm not into kpop, but I have similar experiences with anime and Korean webtoons. I lived in Japan for 4 years. Nobody looks at you weird for it there. Anime is becoming more mainstream in the US, but it is still a relatively small community with most of us being in our early 40s or younger. My mom is more chill about it now, but my dad is still super judgy. I'm tired of trying to get people to understand it is simply a Japanese take on a medium used for storytelling and equally valid as live action. If anything, it is an interesting example of how one culture's media inspires another with a highly successful end result.
i think something i really appreciate about bts is that i never feel like a crazy fan girl even tho many interviewers will try and push that label onto us, and in front of them too. you’ll see the boys change the direction and point out that we are so supportive of them and they appreciate us so much. like yes you can’t speak for all armys like you can’t say anyone one group of people is perfect but there are some amazing positives i’ve seen some do, such as donations and bringing awareness to many topics. but that’s never the stuff that gets pointed out most of the time
exactly! they treat us with respect because they know not all their fans are crazy and that our support is what keeps them at the top. it’s nice that they refrain from belittling fans (at least publicly) like everyone else does
@@kittenluver4lyfe I've seen people belittle armies tho. I think it's only within the kpop community where army gets respected like you say, but anyone outside kpop will look down on any kpop fandom. And ngl, even I find it creepy sometimes. I understand being a fan of a certain artist, but I've seen some army's, which, to you they may seem like they're doing good, but they get so defensive about BTS that it creeped me out. I know BTS has done many charities and they've probably helped many of their fans when they felt low and whatnot with some of their music, since it's what I've heard has happened. But I cannot fathom how it's possible to love people you've never met to the point some army's do. Not just army, other kpop fans as well. I've seen some bizarre posts on Quora where some army will trash other kpop groups just because they see no other hand other than bts being good. To them BTS means their entire life, and that outright creeps me out. I know this is bad behavior, the toxic side of fandoms, but it has happened way too many times to just ignore it. I have nothing against BTS, but I have everything against those people who obsess to a degree where the only thing left about their personality is BTS. Humans are complex, there's so much more you can like
@@sin3358 if you say that armys are respected within the kpop community, I'll assume you have never interacted with said kpop community. they literally made an "independece day" to get armys out of the kpop fandoms lol
Boysbands are always affiliated to what young girls like and as something negative. Like having a majority of women followers ain’t the flex of the century. Besides the stereotypes i feel like these groups have more freedom nowadays.
@@LondonBlue i really hate that mindset people have. i hate how it personally affects me too by letting it get to me and i feel ashamed sometimes because of my interests :/
Yeah that's kinda not true if you're a fan of kpop you know that. Like Seventeen's Hoshi drunk interview (he was HAMMERED lol). Or the some of Going Seventeen episodes where the guys are VERY clearly drunk
i was never into pop boy bands but i was obsessed with rock bands like my chemical romance, early panic at the disco, etc and i looked up videos of the members like doing stuff or talking about their work or those ''funny interview moments'' and it helped a lot during dark times!
Haha, I was the same My Chem and Taking Back Sunday, now I get the same thing from BTS, emo lyrics and funny videos, the perfect combination of validation and distraction.
One tiny correction… George and Ringo were switched on the clip with their personality labels. Love this topic- I grew up in the 90s and loved *NSYNC and was so sad when I was older and learned about how difficult their lives were at the time and afterward because of trauma from the experience. My dad grew up in the 60s a huge Beatles fan so I guess it runs in the family!
I'm an ateez fan (kpop). I got introduced to kpop by SHINee, so they'll forever be close to my heart. I was 1D fan when they were still active and I just gravitated towards kpop. Kpop is slowly filling the void 1D left. Ateez are such good performers. I love their lore, music, choreographies and vocals. It's hypocritical being called "just a fangirl", especially by people who could break a tv screen if their favourite football team lost a match.
I've never been into boy bands or really any celebrities for that matter. It never interests me much. But I take exception to people saying boy bands are inauthentic like they're the only manufactured music. Most music groups or solo artists are that way. They don't write their own songs, produce their music, or even play an instrument half the time. They're chosen because they're good looking and have a nice voice and then given a persona and told what songs to record. It's not unique to boy bands yet boy bands get so much more hate. And I don't even get why it's such a bad thing to not be good at all aspects of music at once. Being good at singing and dancing is a lot on its own. Being acomplished at an instrument is a lot on its own. Writing prefect songs that are familiar enough to be catchy but still unique enough to be new is a lot on its own. Expecting everyone in music to be a prodigy is a little much.
@shush right?! No one expects Opera singers to write new material. And yet you can still get college degrees in musical performance and win emmys. Sometimes, just being a really good singer is enough. Plus, I would argue that even if they have the skills to write their new songs, they don't have the time. Being the face of what is basically a company is a busy busy job.
I think it’s the disappointment in finding out that a group of colleagues (let’s be honest) are not exactly bffs even though they sing about love and friendships together.
As a Beatles fan, I quickly have to point out that you switched Ringo and George up around minute 17 of the video. Lovely and interesting video as always!!
I’m almost 23 and even though my 5sos era and then bts era are finished I still like to go back and listen/watch their stuff (not to mention that I still truly exited for new 5sos albums). I like to read fanfictions occasionally or even go back and add a couple of sentences to those I was writing at the time. It brings me comfort, it reminds me of days when I didn’t have to pay my rent and buy groceries. I was just happy. All I knew in life was to fixate on specific boy and ignore those douchebags around me, those that would call me fat but “my boy” would ask me to eat well. And I also really cherish the memory of my mam being involved in my journey and telling me stories about her fangirl experience. It is genuinely the best time in my life and I’m happy that I get to share this experience with other now women. Thank you so much for this episode, I enjoyed it very much!!
I feel this about 5sos (I never got into K-pop), I’m 21. I even had the same haircut as Mikey for part of highschool and going to their concert will forever be a wonderful memory (I went when they toured with Hey Violet before Hey Violet got bigger).
the being pg part is something i started to notice recently. like bts, would do comercials but those were centered around the age they were at the time (fried chicken when they were teenagers, electrodomestics when they got older). And i think it's something refresing seeing considering that most groups get stuck with their youthful image while their fans grow up. Like a few months ago, they did beer commercials, and no one saw it as a bad thing, because the public, the fandom and the country, saw them as young adults. i hope in the upcoming years, more groups have more freedoom to do the things they like, to take a break from working and live their dreams peacefully :)
TXT’s Taehyun actually recently spoke up about sasaengs last night on their flight back to Korea after doing some performances in Japan and how it made them uncomfortable to follow them on their planes and take pictures of them sleeping or just trying to relax. TXT has a history of having some pretty bad ones, two of them once followed two of the members into a bathroom. Idols are still humans no matter what and to put them in such uncomfortable situations is messed up. Which makes me think about how some companies do nothing to stop it and the theory that the companies are in on it and sell the artists information so they can get more press
Jackson Five was huge, but New Edition, Temptations is never mentioned when people talk about boy bands. Frankie Lymon and the teenagers were really good too. Most modern boybands got all their influences from them. Shout out to them. So happy you covered this! I Love BTS too.
@@JaneDoe-kx3yz Yeah but that's not the case for every fan. I'm an adult, I have a job, I have a boyfriend and I love BTS also. People think that being a fan of bts means that you're a child or you are delusional and it just rubs me the wrong way. A lot of us love the music, their message, the way they carry themselves and their personalities. That's pretty much it.
EXACTLY! it has always been that simple for me.. people making such a big deal of liking a boyband is just stupid in my opinion.. like chill bro, some of us just wanna listen to the music!
I'm so glad I've found my safe space.. I just got into a heated argument under a TH-cam video because someone mentioned Taehyung.. The name calling, the hateful words.. I still haven't recovered. My goodness.
Jihyo from twice literally grew up in jyp entertainment, for 12 YEARS, where she trained to be an idol. luckily she debuted though, and now shes a member in one of the most successful kpop groups today
It's clear that the guy was having difficulty talking about the inappropriate interaction, so he ended up with a nervous laugh, to which the host started laughing, when it was his place NOT to do that... and then very telling how that woman's voice is the one to say "it's not funny". Society is not trained to take men seriously when they're victims of this kind of stuff.
23:00 in regards to the friendships and bonds they might create in boybands, a nice example is GOT7, a kpop boy group originally from JYP Ent. They ALL left the company as of January/2021 but ig because of the fans and also because of their friendship, they desired to maintain the group’s name and did all the legal procedures to get everything to belong to them instead of the previous company. As of now, they are all mostly on different companies, releasing their solo stuff, but have a contract with Warner Music Korea for the group stuff, like their recently released album. I think that maybe, if they weren’t friends or didn’t like each other as much, this probably wouldn’t be possible, independently of how many fans they have, as we have seen with One Direction (no hate pls). They went as far as to go through all the legal procedures to get the group’s name and identity to actually belong to them so that they could release their songs with no problems.
this reminds me of a tweet i saw today 'kpop is fun til u remember it preys on ur vulnerable human emotions to make u so deeply invested in the parasocial relationship that u either spend exorbitant amounts of money to validate that relationship or watch sadly from a distance while the people richer than u do just that' the industry surrounding boybands couldn't live without a cycle of exploitation and desire to turn a profit as large as possible
3 things that would be great to discuss: a deeper conversation around the “not real music” piece, boy bands who break the mold like BROCKHAMPTON, and generally: BTS and ARMY. Surprising lack of talk about BTS here considering they’re the biggest artist in the world right now and I think there’s a lot of reasons for that outside of marketing, etc. Also - I’m glad you brought up twilight because in retrospect the way it was treated in the media/cultural zeitgeist was heinously misogynistic towards teen girls under the guise of critiquing twilight’s narrative quality. People just want to hate the media young women find value in because they hate young women, not because the media is objectively bad. Edit: spelling lol
There are many classical examples of male music idolization/"fangirling" as well! There's the castrati of early opera; male eunuchs were HUGE sex symbols for high-class opera-going women. And then there was "Lisztomania"; girls would literally fight each other to grab a cigarette butt Franz Liszt flicked into a gutter. It's a tale as old as time! :)
this video brought up a lot of interesting context, but it honestly.... didn't feel like a good defense of boybands? its sympathetic to the artists, but only focuses on the negative aspcts of boyband history, doesn't delve neither into the healthy aspects of fandoms like it said it would, or the actual music and its impact. from acting like its always just a phase to flying over the actual music trends started by boybands, their impact on the music industry , cases of groups that have a different perspective, it felt like every other discussion of it, if less condenscending. the impact of motown groups, the beatles reshaping of the entire music industry, bts' recent unique place on an international music space, and the trend of lasting boybands being "recognized" by male critics later in their careers (when largely young female fans have made them established) are a few things that could've been delved into. theres some misinfo about kpop here too that other ppl have mentioned, (skinship, sasaengs), more complexity to the 'hysteria' stereotypes that could've gone deeper
@@sonamy1231000 the underexamined but actually extremely impressive capacity for organization, the strong sense of community a lot young fans develop, the various friendships created in a fandom space, the ability to connect with people from many different places(most relevant post internet and especially now with kpop), the pulse for music that has often ended up being "validated" later on (the beatles, the monkees, the beach boys, robbie williams, even justin timberlake), the creative environment with stuff like fanart, cover videos, dance covers, remixes, fanvids, even fanfiction, and the complex relationship with girls and other young people feeling free and safe to express attraction and their sexuality in this setting - the last one mina touched on, but briefly; there are also interesting angles of young queer people and their relationship with boybands and their fandoms. conservative fretting over this freedom was actually behind a lot of the derision towards beatlemania, for example. fandoms existences are complex like any other large community.
@@lizwho_o i actually think it would make perfect sense as they are the biggest boyband we've had in a long while, globally. maybe since the beatles. their career and their fandom dynamics have a myriad of interesting similarities and specific differences with other boybands and kpop boygroups, and that informs 1- their western success 2- kpops current wave globally 3- how ppl view boybands/groups in general right now. what was weird was that she didn't mention them, or went deep at all into the current interest in kpop groups, though images were used; but to be fair maybe that would be too much for just one video. still, it felt a bit incomplete, using anecdotes from 2nd gen kpop and then...not talking abt this relationship right now.
I don't know about ya'll, but this video felt like group therapy. I feel like this was the conversation I've been needing to hear, to unpack the crazed teenage obsession I had with One Direction. I had so much shame from others and myself for liking boybands so much, but looking back on it introspectively as an adult, and hearing the psychology of it, has made me much more sympathetic to my 16-year-old self. Like, of course I liked the 16-year-old cheeky boys, who had the squeaky clean persona. They were miles better than any of the boys that I knew in real life!
I’ve never been into modern boy bands. On the other hand I love the Beatles, I think they are the ultimate boy band because they’re music is timeless. By the way, I couldn’t help but notice that you mixed up Ringo and George in 17:24. Great video as always😊
I'm nearly 48 and was never into boy bands, although I had friends who were obsessed with New Kids On The Block. I don't consider The Beatles a boy band because they were an actual band who played their own instruments.
When you call it a phase and act all this high above it all like only teenage girls would like this is so patronizing and it’s exactly the type of language that has been used to belittle teenage girls and their interests, like is perfectly normal for a boy to like sports and continue to like them until he is older but just because boy bands are liked by teenage girl then there is just no way that is normal and we should punch down on teenage girls and their interests which is awful
Calling something a phase is NOT inherently negative. You aren't lesser than anyone else for losing interest in something and it becoming a phase. It's your perception of the word "phase" as being negative. It's completely normal that your interests would change because we as people also change, and it's a given that teenagers go through a lot of changing (hormones *cough cough*) and hence most of the phases would happen in that period. Some of them carry into adulthood but most don't. For boybands it's even more likely that it would be a phase. First of all, hormones will do sh*t whether or not you want them to. Second, having a lasting relationship with a friend or partner is hard enough, you'd have to love them as you both go through all sorts of metamorphoses, what more a parasocial one. I'm willing to bet you're the one feeling patronized, but don't be seriously it's normal lol
@@abimon76 you are assuming that all people that like “boy bands” are teenagers which is where your hormonal influence starts and ends but there are a lot of bands who are liked no matter the age range and don’t end up been a phase of a teenager that is just the box that some have place upon “boy bands” to patronize their fandoms and just put down whatever is like by a mainly teenage fandom which alienates the rest of the audience and tells so much about how we look at teenage girls
I was born for this is a book by Alice Oseman that centres 2 character points of view. The front man of a popular boy band, and a fan girl. It goes into parasocial relationships, anxiety, band members being overworked, and a lot of the issues talked about in this video. It’s a really good book and I highly recommend it.
Loved this one. My younger sister was really into Kpop, while I tended to obsess more over Jdarama characters and fanfiction, but the "experience your full range of emotion in a safe direction" totally stands. (I mean, also the escapism of it, happening basically during middle and high school, when the pressure to perform and hyperfocus on impending adulthood just keeps mounting). I think even as an adult, any crushes I develop focus on unattainable unavailable people, and if it ever morphs into something with actual potential, that's too real and too scary, no thank you. :) Disney's "Turning Red", released in a couple months before you released this video, does a lovely and respectful portrayal of teenage fans (doesn't go into the perspective of the boy band at all). ... I appreciated your highlight that teenage girls enjoy being rowdy and loud in a similar way to teenage boys, but that the context of sporting events is normalized, while boy band concerts (potentially a safer venue both emotionally AND physically?) is stigmatized.
I used to be scared and gaslight into hating boy bands. I’m glad to say, I grew up to like them again and be fine with it and defend my niece and letting her talk about whatever she’s into bcz I didn’t have anyone that did for me. We call it, character development ✨
I was so excited to see this video! I've been a kpop fan since 2020, so I have a few things to say about it. There's so much conversation in the way of parasocial relationships, fan boundaries and manufactured experiences. The biggest barrier for me was probably the shame, which sounds sort of funny - I tried getting into kpop back in 2016 and 2018 but I was made fun of by my brother so I dropped it quickly. I felt like I was seen as a silly, hysterical little girl who must be having fantasies about all the group's members, when in reality I just really liked their music videos but I had no physical attraction. It was really frustrating and degrading to have my personality completely misinterpreted/reduced, and since I was holding a lot internalized misogyny, I felt like I was suddenly dismissed as 'one of those girls', erasing me as a person. In the present, my kpop interest became renewed by escapism and a desire for comfort. I read a really lovely article about emotional support kpop boys by Mashable which sums it up pretty well and eased a lot of my guilt. The idealism, the familiarity and consistency, the no-strings-attached endearment, the music and messages - it's such a huge source of positivity in my life. I'll never meet these people in real life, I'll never be more than a view count on a video, but that's exactly what I want. It's not physical, romantic, or a friendship, it's just a mutual exchange of content and monetary support. I'm probably a pretty mild case: I don't spend any money or have a kpop social media account, but I still get a lot of strength from their music and variety shows (and can talk about kpop for days, haha). Slightly related, on boy groups being considered 'real music', in kpop there are a handful of boy group members being involved in their own music (and performance) production, notably: 3Racha from Stray Kids, the rap line from BTS, Jonghyun from SHINee, some members of NCT, and many members of Seventeen. Thank you for the amazing video Mina, and thanks to anyone who read this! I'm curious if anyone had a similar experience to mine :D
I know exactly what you mean. Many of us kpop fans are not delusional and just get comfort and entertainment from the community and songs/contents. I’ve met some of my best friends through kpop. Also I recently moved, and it’s been a good way to make friends locally - which is hard to do with Covid and working remotely. So nice to have a community! Anyone who thinks kpop isn’t real music can kiss my ass hahaha. Also would like to add my faves OnlyOneOf because they do some of their music production and have a Produced by myself series. They also all debuted as adults! Which I would like to see more of in the industry. They also do a lot of their choreo themselves and have some of the best choreo and dance videos in kpop in my opinion. 💖
@@KyubinSlay OH wow, that's super cool - I casually listen to OnlyOneOf & love their dance vids but I had no idea they were involved in their own production!! Thanks for letting me know, that's the push I needed to finally go check out their solos haha :) I also really love that they all debuted as adults, that is 10000% something I'm hoping for more often in the newest gen. Kpop must be a great way to make friends, I'm really looking forwards to it in uni! ! thank you for the reply, it genuinely feels amazing to be understood 💞
In another universe, Mina is May Lee fangirling over SHINEee and turning into a red panda at their concert. I like this fan-girling/boying era we live in only if we don't turn into saseng! BUT I would never trust a company after SM - TVXQ, YG- 2NE1, CUBE - BTOB, JYP - Wonder Girls, TS Entertainment - B.A.P. and many more examples of how the bubble just pops and starts smelling everywhere. p.s I like how this is coming after BlackPink's comeback and uses kinda the background sound from Pink Venom. Personal opinion - I think the comeback is disappointing after such a long wait, but it is what it is I guess (in the comment below I explain why I think that).
Disappointing how exactly? What did you expect? This is a group under YG ENTERTAINMENT, this is how they do this. It's kinda silly to think otherwise 😅
That's actually another good example that she could have included in the video. How it was depicted in the movie Turning Red. How the impact of a cultural phenomenon inspired part of a plot of a Disney movie.
@@flonny1340 Tbh I expected more and I think a lot of people that appreciate the music (not only the visuals and how expensive everything is in the video and promotions) do. "Pink Venom" sounds like "HYLT" and "HYLT" sounds like "Kill this love". All produced by Teddy and I think songs like "Pretty savage" and "Lovesick girls" (when YG actually works with other producers/songwriters) are much more Black Pink and let them show how they abracadarba this shit. And I'm not even gonna mention how Pink Venom is with the craziest lyrics out there atm (the whole song reminds me of GG's "I got a Boy" - just a mess. Catchy but a mess). Anyway, I just hope YG don't do them dirty like 21 and the girls grow more and more (even outside the group) so they don't just kind of disappear if something happens with the group as we know unfortunately their industry puts an expiration date to artists and groups (even more unfortunate to women and example here is SM with SJ and GG, YG with BB and 21 witch makes my blood boil).
use this as a dislike button if you felt that this video didn't actually talk about the positivity of being a boy band stan rather the negativities and further highlighted the stigma associated with boybands by making it seem like it's just a phase or its all about teenage girls who stan these feminine looking men 💀
I really liked that you went into the history of boybands a lot more than what I've seen in most other video essays on the topic which was great, but the one thing i don't love that tends to happen when people discuss this topic is that, because these are discussions about the general idea of boybands there's no real space to explore nor understand any of these acts, their music, history or situation well, which is to be expected but i just hope that people can take artists like BTS as an example, who's history is complex and nuanced and who don't really fit in with a lot of what was discussed in this video but are still grouped in, and look into them with a more open mind if they're interested. Because attaching all the baggage in the word 'boyband' onto artists like them just doesn't feel fair, it never has, because it often times alienates them from serious discussion about music or artistry in a way that doesn't make any sense or it leaves people with an impression of them that makes them feel justified in talking about/over them like they have no agancy or say in their careers or music, it can get pretty degrading and it's frustrating because they're some of the biggest artists in the world rn, both as a group and individually, but most people still get surprised when they find out they make their own music, it's wild. Also as a side note on parasocial relationships, i think the talk around them is interesting?? *Elliot* *sang* made a pretty good video essay about the topic that i wish more people would watch, because aside from his video & a few other discussions I've seen online i don't see the topic really being talked about with half the nuance with which it should be. For example, i don't think it's right to say that parasocial relationships are purely one sided, it's not like artists don't have communication nor form attachments and bonds with their fanbases, maybe it's not a bond made on an individual basis but that doesn't really make it less of a human connection (toxic or not), nor is it fair to say that most fans who find themselves caring deeply about these artists *Must* be naive about the reality of the relationship and have no sense of boundries or understanding of their position as fans and the artist's position as a public figure. I think maybe parasocial relationships could potentially be harder to manage for younger people so that they don't become toxic but i don't think that makes them inherently toxic, they're just another type of relationship that needs to be navigated differently, it doesn't help tho that the kind of culture we have around celebrities rn encourages people to purposefully ignore healthy boundries. Edit: i forgot to also add that even though there's nothing wrong with a lot of boybands having a majority teenage/female audience, this still doesn't always apply, because again, groups like BTS don't fit into that, they just make really good music and our interest in it isn't a 'boyband fase'... they're just incredible artists who got as big as they are because they make such good music, music that speaks to a lot of different people. Edit 2: yeah no forget that, i just saw your tweets and i get that you don't care, I'm sorry that i brought this up to you too on here i must have forgotten my place in this world as an irrational fangirl, no criticism of mine is actually valid after all
@@standingstare she didn't really mention them at all but had them as part of the thumbnail and used them as part of the b-roll so it's implied they're a part of what she's discussing? Idk what exactly you're trying to point out to me tho
@@elenymm same, i only have one kpop album because i wanted the cd (i still have a cd player dont ask why) and it came with all these posters and stickers and i don't know what to do with them
@@kimlip_tree2009 I buy albums and stuff but I don't trade or buy. I pull my bias a lot and like all the members of the group so I don't mind getting any of them. I just put the stuff away in a box on my shelf. And it just is there... 🤷♀️
You have a clarity of exposure that is stunning! I did my BA and MA in musib business because indeed, I was stunned by the boybands effect in the 90s and wanted to be part of the factory of dreams that could provide objects upon which teenagers could project because really, it seemed to me like most of the value and thoughts belonged to the individuals, they just needed a point to focus their energy outside of themselves and boyband characters being as safe as you point out were a perfect way to do that. The bits you mentioned at the beginning about sheet music I turned around to my partner saying "I studied that stuff and I wouldn't have thought of talking about that on the subject of boybands!" So really, amazing job, great clarify, such useful information to give context and meaning. I have spent the last few months researching about fandoms and communities studies and truly, I wish I could sum up the information in a direct and informal way as you manage cause it's how people actually remember and learn things. Definitely me with this, thank you ❤️
As a kpop listener (since “stans” on twitter don’t know how to act) I like the community kpop brings out, and sure if someone were to talk sh*t about a situation, like Jeongyeon from Twice for example, when people make fatphobic comments about her, I will defend her. It’s perfectly natural to Stan by your groups. However I do know that there is a threshold that many stans cross which I think is hard to return from. To me, that way I keep myself from crossing that line is to reflect on other accounts. In other words what really grounds me is the stan Jimin accounts that tell me to k*ll myself. It’s really humbling.
men will vandalize buildings over sports but if a woman likes any musical genre and talks about it they are labeled a crazy fangirl lol
Are you implying that there are no serious consequences for vandalism and that those men are applauded? Where I'm from they're at best considered children who need to grow up if not straight up brute idiots and criminals.
@@elenymm what I’m implying is that sports fans are crazier than artists fans yet fangirls get the most backlash. double standards at its finest.
So glad someone said it. The amount of times I've been called "cringe" and other names for liking bts in specific just makes me want to get off the internet and live in a bubble forever.
@@ihatethescammys.loveyn.5979 its has always been popular to label popular things as 'cringe' especially if it involve what women/girls like. so those people can pretend they're 'unique' and 'not a sheep'. there's always sexism undertone in that too, basically everything women/girls like are inferior to what men/boys like. fangirls fainting seeing their fav idols are crazy and cringe, but male sport fans destroy things in rage are acceptable. when pointed out the obvious double standard, they will say 'Its the sport culture, you don't understand because you're not a guy.' 🙄
i always ask people who hates on something if they hate it because of specific reason or they following the trend to hate on it, or they want to be unique by going against the crowd?
i honestly don't understand why hating on people interest is even a thing.
@@elenymm No one is judging those men as hysterical fan boys when they freak out over a football game and get drunk through beer, scream, cheer, cry, get angry, destroy stuff or start a fight for example. But girls and women who enjoy their time on a Boyband concert or kpop concert and scream, cheer or cry, get described as crazy and hysterical.
still being a kpop stan as an adult has been interesting. i think being a fangirl is fun, but i definitely think toxic fandoms and the predatory tactics of entertainment companies has left a sour taste in my mouth over the years. :/
For real! Ignorance really is bliss…
Yup agreed, I’m I guess considered a fan girl and for sure was deep in the fandoms back in 2007-2013, but now I just listen to the music here and there…I was more of a girl group fan girl than boy groups but it was pretty equal fangirling regardless for me. Growing up the fan wars and all the shady stuff does irk me and in some ways it got better and some ways worse.
Thank you for explaining what i feel
Honestly it's so interesting how knowledgeable we are about the kpop music industry and how we acknowledge the cons and pros of the kpop system yet we still do what we do.
@@keychains5806 It's something I've been trying to wrap my head around. I got into kpop well into my twenties so it really has been weird watching fandom behavior, especially since the group I liked the most became super popular. I try not to participate in behavior I find troublesome, but sometimes it seems almost unavoidable. The whole thing is in a way rotten to the core.
I personally feel like teen girls can like nothing without being criticised weather it’s boybands or something else
*whether. But yeah. :/
I mean, teenagers in general are HORRIFICALLY annoying. But at least girls are clean.
Remember vsco girls? People literally made fun of girls who wanted to save the environment.
@@kittykittybangbang9367 That's what made them VSCO girls??? I just remember it being a fashion thing. Thanks, I learned something new today!
@@justanawkwardnerd I think it was just a fashion thing, but one of the things people would make fun of vsco girls for was "OMG save the turtles" or something like that.
Like why are we making fun of girls who want to save an endangered specie? Oh that's right, misogyny.
@@francookie9353 guess you’ve never been to a girls high school bathroom then or even a public womens bathroom😂
The parasocial relationship is pretty frightening. EXO's Chen married his long-time girlfriend and they were having a child together. He literally has to issue an apology for getting married as a grown-up adult. The Kpop fan culture needs some examination.
mte but I'm at least glad when he revealed he's getting married, it's on his own terms, unlike getting exposed by dispatch. it took him getting most of the brunt to start normalizing celebs revealing their marriage on their own to their fans
well he sign he is a product ! he can choose to not use fans make them believe they are in close relationship ... i don't have pity fr him lol
The parasocial relationship is not the issue. It's how it was nurtured that is. You train fans to act how you want and expect of each other but the labels become carlesss in the nurturing that they don't take heed so long as they hit the big numbers profiting
The way there were actua physical protests Infront of the sm building to have him kicked out of exo is INSANE
@@Jsarmy87124 please add /s thank u
My ex-boyfriend disdained boy bands and loved the Beatles. When I reminded him that the Beatles started as a boy band (with my mom as a fan long before he was born), he openly sulked.
EX boyfriend period!!!!
Good on you for ex-ing him hahaha
the thing is that later they started writing their own songs and pushed boundaries of music, cause they were one of the first bands ever, modern boybands will forever be just boybands
@@sweetbunnybun ummm, a lot of modern boy bands write, produce, compose,... and actually work on their own music.
Or at least the ones that I know about.
what made them a boyband in the beginning? What is the difference between a boy band and an all male band?
Skinship isn't a kpop thing. That's just a part of Korean culture. When I first moved to America I didn't get why guys were so afraid of touching each other. I don't mean that in a sexual way but it's just... they never gave casual shoulder pats or hugs to each other and it took me a while to get accustomed to. It was only when I got older that I realized toxic masculinity was a thing.
People do forget that that is a cultural thing...conveniently.
I think a big part of it is exactly as you said “I don’t mean it in a sexual way” here in the US we literally do not have a way to communicate the concept of platonic or friendly physical contact. You either touch some one sexually or you don’t touch them at all and since most guys aren’t trying to have sex with their male friends they don’t really touch.
thank you for this! its the only part that irked me in this video. a lot of people who are used to western culture forget that when they consume cultures from other countries they should have an open mind about whats normal and whats not.
Exactly here in Asia skin ship between homies / best friend are extremely common it's in Asian culture
But seriously the way male idiots being labeled "gay"because of normal skin ship just boils the blood out of me like wtf?
I definitely think it's important to show these forms of platonic affection on-screen so that people dont get up in arms about it in real life, but unfortunately a lot of viewers miss the point and use that as an excuse to ship bandmates instead. said fetishization doesn't do much to ease casual homophobia, which a lot of toxic masculinity stems from.
i used to be OBSESSED with those “funny moments” videos, because they created an idealized image of the popstar in my head. For a lot of girls, they seem to become someone you can almost be friends with. but as i grew older, i eventually realized how “overly perfect” and micromanaged these lines and personalities became. it’s really sad to think that someone was being forced into a “perfect persona” like that.
felt this.
Same
Samee
Dang this hits hard
Yes yes yes yes
As someone who’s been into boy bands and judged for it, this video is going to be therapeutic to watch haha
Can confirm, it was very therapeutic.
I feel you....same
Agreed!!!
Definitely therapeutic. Especially when you’re an adult who’s “too old” to like boy bands!
@@Lorena-eh5cl you totally speak my mind! I've been a boy band fan for years, first the Jonas Brothers and 1D when I was younger and now at 26 (which I still see as "young" but idk), I'm a fan of some kpop groups and the amount of times that younger fans called me old is honestly ridiculous, so this video actually was therapeutic - we're not too old, others are just toxic :)
A lot of people refer to the fan-behavior as a phase, but that doesn't have to be the case at all. I've been a fangirl my whole life, starting with books, movies, series then youtubers, then actors and then kpop groups. I'm an adult now, but I'd still consider myself a fan. Several aspects of my behavior and my relationship towards it have changed over the years, but I never thought of it as a temporary thing and I think I'll continue being a fan because it's fun and oftentimes it's a very effective form of escapism. I was never blind to the downsides or the "dark" side of it, but it doesn't outweigh the good times. Finding people with common interest is also extremely important.
Ikr, I'm still a fangirl through and through but I'm chill about it, I try to not be toxic or annoying and I'm totally against gatekeeping, if you say you're a fan of something than you're a fan.
yes! people always roll their eyes or smile in a weird way when I start explaining something that I'm a fan of but I know very well that it's a very positive thing for me because these books/singers/shows/artist make me happy and entertain me and it's the best feeling when I can tell someone about them but then they act as if I was weird. and I know myself and I know that I am not obsessed because with everything there are kind of waves when I interact with one of these fandoms more and then let it rest, I'm not so crazy that all I think about is this thing. sorry if this is very inconclusive.
Same I sometimes feel a bit awkward about it because even now in my thirties I am very fangirl-y of any entertainment I like.
Yeah this video made it sound like oh it's a phase thing like girl no
I'm the exact same way, fangirling has become more of a way for me to appreciate different types of content wholeheartedly. Like you, I enjoy learning and investing time into music, movies, books, etc. but try and remain self aware about how this type of behaviour is perceived. It's interesting seeing how people react to boyband "obsession" differently to any other collectors obsessions.
Duuuuuude. Telling *_rock men_* The Beatles were one of the first boy bands as we know them today, and watching them foam in the mouth as they spiral, is and has been one of my favourite hobbies for the looongest time!
I don’t think you understand how great hearing this from someone else is lol.
Just wanted to mention: at around 17:20, the camera pans to Ringo when you mention George, and to George when you mention Ringo :)
Haters need to hear this more often, because I do tell them that every time someone in my family tries to make fun of me and it shuts them down immediately.
"You still listen to One Direction? Haha.
- Yeah, and we still listen to the Rolling Stones. We still listen to the Beatles. Everytime you watch CSI, the theme song comes from the Who. They're all boybands, now what?"
Literally no reply after this.
I don't understand this comparison. The Beatles may be a "boy band" in the most superficial sense (mostly in their early days), but the difference between The Beatles and most modern boy bands is that most modern boy bands don't write their own music or play the instruments. The Beatles wrote and played all their own music. I'm not saying this to put boy bands down, I liked some of them in my teen years too, but comparing The Beatles to modern boy bands is kind of absurd
@@guen4413 BTS writes their music, they don't play instruments on stage (yet, there is many years ahead) but Beatles also didn't dance. They are two different bands but their roots are the same, first they were discovered by fangirls. There is video somewhere where they read the articles about Beatles, how "they are awful, their bowl cuts and suits atrocious and they only good for histerical teen middle class girls" but then men found them cool and oh miracle they became cool rock band🥴 it is all bad while girls like it passionately, but it is absolutely acceptable when men do it🤷
@@AlexaOleksa The thing is that boy bands are defined as vocal groups (who may also dance), meaning they don't play their own instruments. Semantics, I know, but this whole discussion is semantics. Also, BTS doesn't write all their own music. Some, but not all. Dynamite, which is arguably their most popular song, wasn't written by any of the band members at all. Again, I'm not saying this to put modern boy bands down, I'm just saying it's different
This is pretty easy to answer (easy, not simple): psychologically it's a safe love. One defined only by your imagination. It's what's so appealing to many people. A real relationship is hard, and scary, and you learn very quickly (I hope) that you don't have any control over the other person (or people, not judging), and worst of all, it can end.
The danger of it is when someone tries to transcend their internal fantasy by trying to make it real. We need to be cognizant of our parasocial relationships.
This is so true lmfao after a very bad relationship I'm starting to feel comfortable with the idea of a boyfriend only in these "safe spaces" liking a celeb creates. I know it won't happen so I don't have expectations and I have fun with it exploring the idea of love and what I want in a relationship without exposing me again to another person that can hurt me like it happened. It's kind of healing only if we keep things rational and logical
you put it into perfect words!
Is it truly safe? Maybe if you see it for what it is and leave it behind at some point or at least change your approach to it as you get older. I think some people end up causing themselves long term damage just by living in a fantasy.
That’s not the case for everyone who likes a boy band. Actually it’s a little annoying how we can’t like something without it being analyzed as some sort of bizzarie, or psychological phenomenon.
I remember reading something similar in regards to the Takarazuka Revue and how the male characters are acted out by women, although I don't remember if this was from Jennifer S. Prough's Straight from The Heart: Gender, Intimacy, and the Cultural Production of Shōjo Manga or from Deborah Shamoon's Passionate Friendships: The Aesthetics of Girls' Culture in Japan.
To add to Mina’s point: There are racist attacks, hooliganism, and screaming at sports matches.
Star Wars fandoms, kpop fandoms, sports fandoms, guys, girls...all the elements of "fandom" are the same
@@LondonBlue fr there's this one time when soccer fans in my country mocked and insulted kpop fans for being unruly in a concert. sure what the kpop fans did is embarrassing but the audacity that it came from soccer fans - the very same soccer fans who vandalized a newly built stadium, mistook someone as another team's supporter and beat him to death - is ridiculous to me.
Also wasn't there a whole rally of men burning and tipping cars over some sports game???
@@leticiavillalobos5247 yep! that happens almost every time a team wins their major tournament in boston. Non-sports fans often just stay inside on those nights.
@NitroFairyWing i remember it spreading on the news! i can't remember where it happened or which game it was but it's vivid in my head
as someone who is still on kpop Twitter, that woman saying "Ringo has a sexy nose" was super hilarious to me. some things never change, huh?
as a 12-year kpop veteran i couldn't help but go "oh ffs that sounds like me"
What even is a "sexy" nose?
@@candy-vintageghoul13 when the nose hot
Lmao as a kpop stan I laughed so hard cause it reminded me of when some of us kpop stans well go " omg he has hot hands" and it's like a random picture of an idols hands 😭
txt beomgyu has a sexy nose~~🥲
I would like to correct one thing : HyunA and Dawn were kicked out by Cube NOT because they were dating, but because they went against the company by confirming they were - the day after Cube had issued a statement saying they weren't. So they were fired for standing up to management, because management were pissed at them for making the company look bad. They had no "dating ban" : HyunA was the most senior artist in the company and Cube had the same week responded to a dating rumor involving two of their idols, both of them in pretty young groups, by "they already broke up".
A VERY funny thing is that Dawn and HyunA were in a co-ed group together (Triple H), and that both of the group's music video had them acting like a couple (with the third member, one of Dawn's bandmates, Hui, being a very literal third wheel, since he was the one driving). So like, they were dating in plain sight and just trying to pass it off as the group's concept... So the company didn't want them to go public... but okayed that concept for some reasons.
When it came to their contract termination there was a lot of flip-flopping from the company actually, the only thing that was done promptly was to remove Dawn from his group - because the fandom was basically exploding after the news came out, and keeping him in could easily have tanked the other nine members' careers because they were still fresh and not that successful. HyunA ended up calling out the company on her instagram so they WOULD terminate her contract and she could go on with her career and her life. And in the end their exit was a pretty happy one, Cube could have kept Dawn in a dungeon for the next five years if they'd *really* wanted to be asses, but let them go both.
Sorry for the tangent but it was kind of fascinating to witness this from the kpop sphere so seeing it addressed as 'they were kicked out for dating' is kind of reductive.
wasn't hyuna also being labelled for a good while as a predator/abusing her authority as dawn's senior by being too close/touchy with him prior to admitting they were dating? i'd thought that's why cube went up in arms to deny them being romantically involved.
@@HetaClaude Actually I think that the "sexual assault" accusations are among the reasons why HyunA&Dawn decided to reveal they've been dating for two years --because Cube denying they were dating, really made things look worse than it was.
lmaooo this is what happens though isn't it... they have idols act super close and literally homoerotic toward each other but the second someone is actually dating welp
@@abimon76 My point was that them dating wasn't a problem for the company, contradicting an official statement was. They went against their superiors, they were fired - it's just company politics.
_Fans_ are the ones who react badly to dating news, not just because of parasocial relationships but also because idols are expected to be on the job all the time and having a relationship outside of their group is seen as not being dedicated enough (which is dumb from our pov, but you have to take Korean work culture into account). Fans see the borderline-homoerotic fanservice as part of the job so it's not a problem for them.
Has anyone noticed how it's ALWAYS the men who shame girls for kpop (and boy bands in general)? I've never met a girl who'd shame me for it. It's always the men.
Edit: also the excuse for degrading us is "they're gay". Like what. despite the fact that they aren't gay, it makes no sense to me why would that be a problem. Why can't other men take care of themselves and look good without getting called gay.
I (and friends of my mine who enjoy kpop or boybands like 1D) have been shamed for it by women but it’s always been women with internalised misogyny and often in the presence of men. It’s a shame cause I just think to myself you don’t know what you’re missing out on 😌😌
This
The only girls who do it are the pick me ones :( I never cared too much about k pop, but i totally understand the craze 'cause I was once a teenager completely obsessed by justin bieber lol and even now I get a bit obsessed with new bands or artists I discover
oh girl u’re lucky,,as someone who goes to an all girls school, i’ve met a fair share of western musician fans who dunk on ppl for liking anything asian (and i live in asia), be it our own country’s music or anything else. yes, taylor swift is talented af and some of my all time faves are literally by her but that doesn’t mean that being into kpop is disgusting or something to laugh about. not when u urself read one direction scenarios on pinterest 🙄
@@ana.ish7 If you live in asia, that's most likely why people hate asian music. People tend to hate things from their own country no matter how good it is.
You mentioned the fetishization of Korean men but another thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth is the infantilization of the members. Especially now that I'm older, people try to defend group members for racist acts by making them seem like a child when really they're grown men. Or they get mad when a 25-year-old man has alcohol. It's so strange
same! it's annoying
Yes! Back in 2009, I'd think it's so "cute" when they're having little spats and stuff and someone pointed out that grown men fighting isn't something that should be viewed as is. There's a lot of things that you can misunderstand when you're younger and heavily invested into the media, and it's important for fans to learn that their idols are human too and are probably the complete opposite of their personas.
they will get so shocked when they see certain idols drink, swear, smoke or talk about smex and they’ll be like: 😱 *LE GASP* I thought he was innocent~~ when he’s in his late 20’s
It’s kind of their cultures fault for the infantilization of these entertainers. I see the TV my Korean MIL watches and there is this purity and cuteness that they push on these young adult artists.
Also, many of their song themes are a little more innocent compared to the western bands, hence pushing further that puritanical and cuteness image.
i completely agree with you . And when you start to explain it to them it turns in to a war
"The standard for masculinity in the east . . . looks like he washes his ass."
I absolutely cracked up and had to stop the video to catch my breath, because this difference is spot on. I mean, it's not that much of a joke, right? I remember when the story of the woman who had to keep replacing her partner's sheets and underwear because he honestly believed it was un-masculine to clean his backside was going viral.
Ew WTF is that real? Yeah I rather date a ‘femenine’ dude than some dirty ew boy :/ keep the quarterbacks faaaaar away from me
never heard that seriously super gross she should dump his ass for it being so disgusting pun intended
WAIT WHAT? SHOULD'VE DUMBED HIS ARSE FROM DAY1
It’s 2022 let’s hope everyone is washing there ass 😂
Lmao ain't no wayyy 😂
I wrote my Bachelor's thesis on girl groups and the image they usually portray and it's much the same as boy bands (since they're also usually marketed to girls), except that they play more into the friendship image - you can be part of this friend group where we talk about relationships and self-confidence, etc - instead of the potential boyfriend. At it's core it's pretty similar though, it's all about social connection and feeling part of a group (which is true for sports team fans and these days all these influencer friendship groups' fans too). Sure, it's all done on purpose but at the end of the day it doesn't even matter that much if it's real, if the fans get that connection out of it anyway.
Sidenote: I'd like to add that the Motown groups in the 1960s were a huge influence on boy- and girlband culture (most of them were put together by producers! and the fact that as black groups they were hugely successful in the 60s among white Americans (and Brits), and not through white covers but as themselves, is really interesting! they get overshadowed by the popularity of the "British Invasion" of the Beatles and co. in the US right around Motown's peak though)
Something I wanna mention, I noticed that the early Beatles albums has a lot of covers from Black musicians along with their own originals
Omg that sounds amazing!!! Can I read your thesis anywhere?
@@Yue_yunn thank you!! it's not posted anywhere online unfortunately, sorry! 🙃 but my comment is basically the gist of it - especially in their first albums, girl groups are usually (at least visually) portrayed as a friendship group you as the listener can feel like you're joining. and the individual members are given/have images that different people can relate to (the spice girls are the most obvious example of this!)
"A lot of boy bands have names that have the word boy in it instead of men"
✨THE BOYZ✨
Boy bands traditionally have a teenage girl fandom, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with young women being excited about something they're passionate about... but I have to say the BTS fandom goes way beyond the teenage demographic. ARMY made a census of the fandom this year, with more than 500,000 participants and it turns out almost 70% of the BTS fandom that participated is made out of people over 18 years old. I'm a BTS ARMY and I'm about to turn 36, and I'm part of a community of armys that are around my age, so I know for a fact that ARMYs are from all ages and backgrounds.
EXACTLY BUT GUESS WHAT SHE MUSTN'T KNOW THAT SINCE SHE WAS AN EGGOS AND SM STAN 💀😂
that's such a beautiful thing about being an army while people may label us as crazy fans but to tell you the truth this level of devotion is not something I have seen anywhere with any band. while there are negatives to everything I can positively assure that the positives outweigh and I think big part of it comes from the genuine support of the members themselves like they are respectful and supportive of us as well. and I wasn't a fan as a teenager so idk how it would be different for me but as an adult BTS has only had positive impact on me cuz their message and their personalities have inspired me to be a better version of me for the sake of me. it feels more of a connection as humans to them like it's okay to not know them or them knowing you and still having this respect established as strangers like that's the best part. also from their most recent songs and how they have been recently I feel like they are slowly morphing themselves more to be directed to adults since they themselves are proceeding to their 30's as well so their message would be more relatable to people who are closer to their age demographic and I'm quite excited to see what they have next coming for their solo ventures and individual colors.
@@evianblue you're so right, and this connection between BTS and ARMY is very hard to explain. We don't know them personally and they don't know us, but there's a respect and love that, like you said, I haven't seen before between other artists and their fandoms. I'm a devoted fan cause they give me so much, that I feel the need to give them back. Their music and message has been of great support to me through the hardest times and an endless source of happiness and inspiration. I'm too super excited for what's to come for BTS and ARMY. With BTS and ARMY in my life I truly feel like I never walk alone.
This is not a singular BTS thing lol. Most women are still fans of their groups even once they are older. And all bands have fans older than they are. BTS isn’t special, it just seems that way because their fan base is big because they began to market right at the height of the Korean media boom. I’m not saying they aren’t extremely talented, but their fan base has the same range as other fanbases previous to them.
And if I’m a little annoyed, it’s because of the gross comment about Mina “not knowing because she’s a SM fan 💀” as if that’s somehow an insult. Can people stop their pathetic Stan wars for one second and take in the fact that this was meant to be an informative video on boy bands in general?
@@PunkHime89 I'm sorry but I think BTS are special. I'm not young, I was a Backstreet boys and Hanson fan back in the 90s, and they are OK, I mean I still like those groups mainly because of the nostalgic factor. Then I became a fan of rock when I was 14 until today... Bands like pink floyd, muse, Foo fighters, queen, led zeppelin, black sabbath, nirvana.... Until BTS came to my life, and I swear I still can't believe I'm such a devoted fan of a boy band. I'm telling you a little bit about my musical interests cause I'm not someone anyone would think loves a boy band, but I do cause BTS are special. I have seen my fair share of bands and musicians, but it's rare to see a pop group that writes lyrics with such depth, poetry and compassion. They truly care about the message they want to give to the world and mostly, to their fans. I can't even begin to explain how important they have become to me and how talented they are in so many ways, but their lyrics and connection to their fans is something rare.
BTW, I don't get involved in fan wars, it's not my thing. Even though I think it's weird Mina didn't mention BTS by name and just said "kpop" when BTS is the biggest band in the world right now, it's not enough for me to get involved in fan wars. As you can see, non of my comments attacked her, I'm just speaking about BTS in a very respectful manner. And it's OK if you don't like BTS, you don't have to.
One of the most annoying (/harmful) stereotypes about boybands' fans is all of them being completely unreflected and immature.
So even just watching the beginning of this video I'm really glad that Mina is not distancing herself from fangirls but rather sharing her own experiences. (And thereby not portraying them as some inherently cringey sub-human group of people.)
They're not immature, it's just that men always have hot women to look at but women don't get good looking men to admire. So when a boyband shows up, it's a festival.
If I could just make a minor correction...? The term "skinship" isn't a kpop exclusive term, it quite literally is just a normal word in usage in Korean (actually it's a loanword of a loanword from English (meaning skin to skin contact from mother to child) to Japanese (any kind of physical affection) to Korean (which retained the Japanese meaning)). it refers to any kind of platonic, non-s*xual physical affection/touching between two people, including family, friends, and lovers - so as an example, a hug would be considered a type of skinship - and isn't limited to two people of the same gender. I think it's a bit of a misnomer to say it's a kpop term, unlike something like stan or what not. There's been a lot of interesting articles written about the concept of "skinship" as a cultural thing because it doesn't really have a direct translation despite the term being in English.
Thank you for the definition. I have heard and read this word through social media, YT videos, and Vimeo videos. And sometimes the person talking speaks so *fast* that I don't know the terminology or the background sounds (really annoying) keep on blocking out the word. I love learning different verbs, adverbs and terms from other countries! ❤
I think a lot of people learn new words, concepts, views etc through kpop & assume it's limited to that, rather than part of a larger culture.
I like some kpop & find the differences in culture & societal norms, compared to here in the UK, incredibly interesting. I often go down rabbit holes & try to learn the wider context & what is common in which countries. Of course some nuance is lost & hard to understand unless you hear it directly from people who have experienced it but social media (& google translate) makes assessing those people so much easier.
I find different cointries/cultures incredibly interesting, I went to a multicultural school so maybe it set me up for being more aware of differences & norms? I do think some over- romanticism & almost fetishisation of kpop idols could be improved if people were willing to realise many aspects aren't limited to kpop & different countries try/cultures often have positives which they can like & even emulate.
i have ALWAYS been upset about the way men talk about teenage girls and the boyband experience. like FIRSTABLE as mina said, the beatles were a boyband and they would be NOTHING without teenage girls. all these jerk musicians who cite the beatles as their main inspirations.... you would be nothing without teenage girls.
secondable, i got into hockey in 2015 and whew girl. there is no tangible difference between teenage girls at a kpop concert, wearing band tees and holding merch and men at sporting events. none. men paint their faces, wear sports jerseys out and about (not just at games), and i personally have seen real human men cry at playoff games. like. sports fans and boyband fans is the same.
even worse, there are several instances of huge groups of mainly male fans basically rioting after big games like the Super Bowl either because they lost or won and that makes them feel entitled to trash cars and set things on fire. but teenage girls are the ones out of control, obviously
Ikr. It's even worse bc usually boyband fans are TEEN girls while sports have a whole lotta GROWN ASS DUDES in the audience.
@@clarasundqvist6013 RIGHT??? the part that kills me is that they riot when they WIN, too. why are you destroying public and private property because your team won a trophy? as far as i know, teenage girls have never been responsible for millions of dollars in property damage.
and ANOTHER THING! every time you hear about festivals where there was like. unruly fans and property damage, it's ALWAYS men! i just watched the woodstock 99 documentary on netflix and uhhh,...... talk about crazed fans. anyway!
I think you meant “first of all” not “firstable”!
I think i see the point you are trying to make. But i feel them as 2 ends of a planet. Different, yet the same sentiment 🙌
as someone who went through all possible boyband phases in my short 20 year old life (One Direction in middle school, followed by my kpop phase in highschool that still continues today) I felt like a lot of the things you mentioned are definitely true. Especially the thing about how these boys are portrayed as "family" - many times (for kpop groups especially) there is so much content of them goofing together or playing games and it boosts up the viewer’s serotonin, giving them a safe place. And every single kpop groups produces SO much content that you always have something to watch. By consuming so much of them living their lives together, working together etc. you develop a sense of codependcy on these people that don’t even know you exist. You know their inside jokes, the hardships they have been through, who they share a room with in the dorm, what is their favourite late night meal - and this leads to a very weird situation where you know so many details about some idols that live far away from you to the point where if one or a few members leave or get involved in a scandal this feeling of codependcy crumbles down and that is why many fans accept such news so hard.
I remember when I was 13 and I read the news about Zayn leaving One Direction that I cried for two consecutive nights in my bed. Looking back, I realize why that happened now and how dependent I was on getting serotonin from this group in my younger years.
Because with boygroups, as you explained in depth, it’s not *just* about the music. It’s about their personalities, private lives, their relationships with one another. It makes many fans feel like they truly *know* these people and are *friends* with them, let’s not mention the ones who get delusional and start thinking they own them.
I don’t regret being a boygroup stan, it has brought me much joy throughout my adolescence and still does, but I have learned how to separate myself from these artists and appreciate their craft without relying on them for getting serotonin because at one point it just becomes unhealthy. I remember when I was at the peak of my BTS phase i kept wondering how I would keep on living when they go to the military or stop being a group and I’m so glad I’ve grown out of that.
The awkwardly meta moment when Mina's talking about parasocial relationships and you totally have one with her
Literally me😭
Same haha ❤❤
Some people act so weird towards boy band fans, like I've been accused of lying about being a lesbian more than once just because I like some kpop boy groups - as if it's impossible to like their music without being attracted to them, it's so weird.
Thisss
Of course it is possible, but if you're in any fandom you do know that often the last thing people care about is the music itself.
@@elenymm Depends on the person in question of course, but speaking from my experiences with the people I met in fandoms, I honestly would say that the music is one of, if not the most important part for the vast majority. But then again, seeing some awful songs get really popular does make me wonder whether the fans actually like it or just stream because they like the artist. XD
@@LondonBlue is this the way these people choose the music they listen to? It's bizarre
@@luisab3079 when you think about how much other content kpop groups constantly put out, the music that they put out a couple of times a year gets lost in the mix sometimes. It's great if people focus on the music because there is really good music in kpop. It is also true that there is a lot of blind loyalty. Just try saying that you think the new Blackpink song is underwhelming and watch the fireworks. Lol
As someone who's been known as a fangirl all my life, I feel like this video is perfect aaaa thank you for always delivering
Building on that point made about men acting the same way at their sporting events, it reminded me of how my dad recalled having to be tear-gassed at a SOCCER GAME, because the crowd was too rowdy. I think it’s important to note that girls have the same pent up energy that we see men expressing, yet we are ridiculed for showing it, while men get to play it off as just “having fun”.
Do they? Because law enforcement gets involved in rowdy football fan behavior. Girls are not jailed for liking a singer.
@@elenymm it was in greece. no one was being arrested.
@@elenymm I think she’s talking about public opinion and acceptance, rather than law acceptance
I think both are ridiculous, I judge guys who foam over sports more than girls who love a band, cause I can understand that more
@@elenymm you knew exactly what they meant and just acting stupid on purpose. “RIDICULED” did you just glance over that part? When do you see sports fans get ridiculed as much as fangirls do?
As a former Directioner in middle school/early high school, the fandom gave me connection and ability to be my full teen girl coming-of-age self with other teen girlies who has the same passion! It was a full time hobby running 1D fan pages on multiple social media platforms. Honestly, a wonderful time in my life to come home to 1D fandom when I was an insecure kiddo at school
i would like to argue that one of the many factors fangirls are overly protective of their faves is due to the way these adult critics brought them down so much before giving them a fair chance. boy/girlbands are always so talented and amazing, the prejudice is so unfair and then they're always baffled at the backlash
Hello! I'm currently a 21 year old black man. I've been a big fan of BTS since early 2017, and as I've grown up into early adulthood, I'm seeing a lot of what you're saying about teenage girls and women in general from an outside lens. I was introduced to them from a female friend of mine at the time and since then, I meet many other girls and women who stan BTS but very few boys and/or men. And it's very disheartening to see that the narratives surrounding girls and boy bands/groups hasn't changed much at all. So I stand in solidarity of the fans who aren't crazy stalkers. Fanfics, shipping, etc. can be fun and a stress relief if not taken too seriously or projected onto the members in real life.
Overall, I appreciate the video; I love to analyze the phenomenon of boy bands and why I stayed in the fandom (besides the music being so FUCKING good). I especially appreciated the historical aspect, which I never knew about. Yet another instance of black creatives being ripped off of and not receiving credit or profit.
i have to disagree. fanfics & shipping are pretty harmful and just weird. why treat real people like characters?
21 is still really young haha
same! i’m 21 and still into kpop :) wouldn’t have it any other way!
Kpop fandom culture is WHOLE thing on itself, very complicated to talk about, especially since there's a lot of fans ALL AROUND the world. Language, culture, age, everything makes people's experiences vary so it's very hard to judge us as a monolith.
@@starr2870 very debatable tbh. There's a lot of confirmation bias (eg. My experience was bad, than it must mean that everything is bad) and just biased point of views in general ("my fandom is great and the others aren't") etc in discussions like this so it's hard to really judge.
But in the end I'll always prefer to NOT generalize, that has always been my way to look at.
@@starr2870 still debatable bcos ive seen other fandoms such as star wars and genshin that have been scarily toxic to a level i haven't seen in kpop, every fandom has weirdos and angels and every persons experience depends on who and how much they encounter in those fandoms.
And that's all I'm saying
It wasn't a phase for me, it turns out!! I really enjoy navigating fandom as an adult in a much healthier way than I did when I was younger.
Same!!
Same here! Lol now I have big girl money too so I can support my own hobbies:)
Omg I’m not the only one!😂
@@Amelia-_- Exactly!!! And it's a little dangerous bc of that sometimes hahaha! :)
Totally agree...i became an ARMY as an adult and really gravitated with the music and lyrics. Aesthetics just came secondary. 💜
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on this topic, as it's truly important. I also think that bringing attention to the exploitation boybands face in global music industries, and how deeply woven that exploitation is in the very identity of a boyband, is something that can always be helpful. I think boybands are extremely varied and nuanced musical acts, many of which have great songs, great public moments, and great contributions to pop culture--many of which have the opposite. However, there is a common thread of exploitation that they face, and stigmatization that their fans (usually young women, as you point out) face, which does not get covered with the empathy and research that it deserves, in my opinion.
I do have some reservations, however, with the video. Even though the video is framed as a defense of boybands, and to some extent, of the young women in their fandoms, I truly don't think the video gives that much time towards actually defending boybands and fangirls. From the initial historicization pointing out the manipulation boybands utilized to gain fangirls and appropriate Black music (all valid critiques and important to note), to the many examples of 'manufacturing' that creates these boybands in the second section, to the many examples of pathological and abusive fangirl behavior in the third section, the vast majority of this video, in my view, is actually offering a pretty standard view of boybands as 'fake' and fangirls as 'crazy.'
In particular, I think this is troublesome given that the video seems to aim for the opposite, and labels itself as the opposite, and acknowledges the harm of this view, but still ultimately perpetuates it. It's not that the boybands aren't exploited and manufactured, and that the fangirls don't often partake in negative behaviors--it's that these are the ideas that dominate discussion of boybands, that people already know and weaponize to attack young women for their fandom behaviors and to attack young men for their public facing images. In other words, it felt more like a 'dark side of boybands' video than a 'defense of boybands' video.
I know you also received critique for including BTS in the thumbnail, but avoiding discussing them in the video (there are, instead, numerous anecdotes about your admitted former favorite group, EXO), and while I think that was probably not the best approach, I also don't think it is all that horrible a thing to do. I understand why you may have chosen to avoid talking about a group you don't feel connected to; however, it does make sense that some were put off by your inclusion of them in the thumbnail, and utilization of them throughout the video in b-roll.
I'm sure many people, including many young fangirls, came to this video with the expectation or hope that it would present an alternative, liberating view of their fandom engagements--not necessarily a depiction of perfection, but a depiction of a different side of their behaviors, a depiction of the good parts of fandom and boybands that many people don't talk about due to industry exploitation, misogyny and homophobia.
With that, I find it kinda disappointing that your video doesn't dive into those ideas for particularly long. Even the section wherein you touch on fanfiction being a creative outlet feels like a backhanded positive note. Overall, I wouldn't be surprised if actual positive perspectives on boybands spanned less than half of the video. I do hope that, if you decide to talk about this subject in the future, you could maybe revisit those perspectives and shed some more light on those positive aspects, perhaps talking about your personal experiences as a former boyband fangirl, the ups and downs, and the positives that you saw in the experience that perhaps others simply wouldn't understand due to prevalent ideas about fandom and young women.
All in all, though I didn't particularly love this video, I appreciate the effort to bring forth these important conversations--ones which I have studied for a few years and are quite close to my heart.
this!!!
This!!!! A thousand times
I agree.
++++
Thank your for putting my thoughts into words! I couldn't figure out how to explain my feelings at the end of the video, but this summarizes them well.
I hate how something thats catered specifically to teenage girls is always described as cringe or worthless or harmful in our misogynistic society...
I think it would have been helpful to explain exactly why the “rabid fangirl” narrative perpetuated by the media is problematic
Except she perpetuates it by calling it a phase that young girls like :/
I mean ... it's misogynistic and taps into archaic notions of female hysteria and presupposes that any woman who isn't prim and proper and quiet is deviating dangerously from the appropriate normality of what women should be.
But we all already know that; what else is there to say?
What else is there even to say about it that hasn't been said already though?
@@RenaissanceRockerBoy Dude absolutely not. Calling something a phase is NOT inherently negative. In this case it's not negative whatsoever. Normal people all have phases. Phases are not just for rabid/emotional/hysterical people.
I had a knitting phase. Some people knit for their entire lives. But it's completely normal that your interests would change because we as people also change, and it's a given that teenagers go through a lot of changing and hence most of the phases would happen in that period.
For boybands it's even more likely that it would be a phase. First of all, hormones will do sh*t whether or not you want them to. Second, having a lasting relationship with a friend or partner is hard enough, you'd have to love them as you both go through all sorts of metamorphoses, what more a parasocial one lol. I mean when justin bieber went to jail I tore his poster off my wall, i was like 11 😭 it's like that. Young people are messy and beautiful, let it be
I love this vid but just a correction:
It’s not “saesang”, it’s “sasaeng”. The former means “world”, and the latter means “obsessive fan”.
I love the work that u do Mina! Sending this to a lot of my male counterparts who love music so they can understand fan culture beyond stereotypes 🙏🙏
ah thank you for the correction i got a bit confused and thought i was learning basic Korean wrong 😅
world would be sesang (세상) and not saesang (새상) though, although the pronounciation is similar so i'm being hella nitpicky, otherwise you're completely right
@@벨-n2j that’s right hahaha it’s 세 not 새. I get you about being nitpicky. It’s hard to explain through just romanization.
@@Shadowcalico-seraph true, i will never be able to properly read romanization but much respect to those who can
thank you for clarifying, i was confused abt that too
when it comes to kpop, i feel like the community is so strong because there are SO MANY ASPECTS of it !!
apart from singing (covers) and the music in general, there is for example dancing (many people enjoy learning kpop choreographies and form dance groups or attend random dance plays), collecting merch (photocard trading/selling communtity is very nice - apart from the scammers :// ), drawing (fanart from realistic portraits to cute illustrations), writing (mostly fanfic tho ☠), even video essays!! (analysing outfits or complex lores)
something for everyone, you know ;)
parasocial relationships are truly an interesting thing to analyse because i feel like as long as boundaries are kept, they are a healthy thing. it only starts to become a problem when people don't realise that neither you or the person you are a fan of truly know one another, and they act as if they will genuinely date this person who has no idea they exist.
BTS is the only boy band I have ever been a genuine fan of and I'm closer to my 30s than my teens, I just really relate to their lyrics, they tell the truth no matter how ugly the truth is. Their music can be angry, aggressive, scathing and sarcastic, other times it is desperate and vulnerable and most often it is deeply empathetic and comforting. While they validate how hard it can be to live in this world, they always include a thread of hope that life can and will get better.
I feel exactly the same - just you expressed it so well! Most of us who truly love the whole BTS canon of music see it as much, much deeper than “boy band,” and I actually feel a sting when they are always referred to that way. I think it might be because a lot of non-fans know them through the context of songs like “Dynamite” or “Butter,” which, while lots of fun and happiness, do nothing to showcase their depth as lyricists, composers, or social commentators. It felt like they were expressing things we all were really experiencing, socially. And they brought out the darkness of that while still reminding us to love ourselves and to keep trying, that the world is worth helping. It’s hard to explain that to people who just see pink hair and stop at that point.
@@bhaktichaudhary1797 I love how the people who see the pink hair then stop at that point tend to accuse fans of being superficial, such delicious irony.
I tell people I became a fan after watching them perform Go Go, wasn't really interested because I thought it was a party song but turned on the subtitles kinda going "what the hell, I'll see what they are singing about." And literally the first lyric I read was "there is already a mortgage on my future." Immediately after reading that lyric, I was overwhelmed with an impending sense of doom as I contemplated the reality of my economic future, but accompanying the doom was relief that someone had said it. I've been a fan ever since 😂
that was really beautifully said
"Or at least are trauma bonded together" ABSJSHDKDGD
The refusal of society to just let teenage girls enjoy things without labeling it cringey, basic or embarrassing will be the death of me
Edit
To be clear I am not accusing Mina of doing this. I agree whole heartedly with everything she said. I simply just needed to get something if my chest
Can we just admit that it can be cringy and embarrassing though? Maybe it's just that I am older and don't care because I like what I like, but I think self awareness goes a long way and shows maturity better than anything else.
@@elenymm I think we can let it go because it ain't harmful - the social criticism of it pushes young women more into it as 'No one understands me'. If people were more open minded, young women will pass through it normally like a phase.
The music literally does suck though. Boy band music is some of the most soulless , generic music made out there. Even 1D members hate the music that they made as a band because it's manufactured and frankly it sucks.
And yes fandoms are absolutely cringey and embarrassing especially the 1D fandom.
@@joebidenjr5902 I don’t think being generic is a bad thing, just because A Hard Day’s Night sounds like every other pop song from that era doesn’t mean it’s not fun. Every music genre has very good and very bad music lol
THANK YOUUU I WAS LOOKING FOR THIS COMMENT
I wasn’t into boy bands as a child, I was a small lesbian who desperately wanted to be not like other girls. It wasn’t until I was about 17-ish that I actually decided to have fun and enjoy music, but I used to tell people that my celebrity crush was Zayn lmaooo. So thanks Zayn for being my beard
I used to be a fangirl but I’m also not interested in men. I feel like kpop stars were safe crushes and people to say I has a crush on while I was closeted. I mean they were literally unreachable: they were in korea and famous.
The non threatening presence is why I fell in love with Tom Hiddleston. I was 22, going through my first break up, I worked at a movie theater and there was Loki on all the posters (Thor the Dark World came out less than a month before the break up, which in hindsight I knew was coming). And I was in a bad mental state. My love for him isn't gone 9 years later, but it is muted. It's no longer a huge thing. I'm happily married and projecting my love that had just been rebuffed onto a man who could play the villain and act like the nicest guy in the world made me feel safe. He would never disappoint me. Loki wouldn't think I was too fat. Tom Hiddleston wouldn't dump me over the phone. It was safe.
Hanson was asked in an interview a few years ago why they are considered a boy band like BSB instead of just a band like U2, even though they've always played instruments and they never danced. Hanson answered: Sexism. Any time there's a fan base of predominantly girls/women, it is instantly dismissed as not being legitimate. Even the Beatles weren't taken seriously until they created an album that the screaming girls' boyfriends liked (Sgt Pepper's).
I'm not a major Beatles fan so idk for sure if his example is true, but I always liked his answer.
There should be some type of repercussions that protect BoyBand members rights, health, & safety from obsessive fans and predatory management. &these videos need to spread more to show obsessive fans how they are part of harming the Boy band members. That is NOT love. Give them privacy! Stop bullying their friends! Accept their choices!
@NitroFairyWing so true & it's been normalized that celebs getting abused is part of the lifestyle. Not right at all
I was a Tokio hotel fan long ago and I never involve myself much with the fandom because even as a teen I tough some fan girls were kind of too much,they fought about the members "love" as if they were their girlfirends and treat the band as their property,like if they have any contact with a girl they freak out and were toxic , I still stand by this just because you like and suport a band and buy their merch does not mean they own you something or they are your property and have to stop having a life outside the stage that applies to pop boy bands, k pop, etc
@@VelvetKatOfficial
The fact that as soon as someone disagrees with them or doesnt know them nor they are interested,they get so bullied... not to mention how women always get harassed... just as mina mentioned sehun situation ... those same people also flipped when he was asked if he was gay, as if its a bad thing...?he himself said that he likes that he has male fans
I’ll forgive you for mixing up George and Ringo because I’m enjoying this video so much💜
Right😹 i was gonna say something abt it too
@@elleyohan9708 I had to rewind because I thought I was just really tired and reading it wrong 😂
Haha, same
Omg same
I was looking for this comment 😁
I find the critique on boy band fans so interesting. I have been a bts fan for years now, and survey after survey on fandom demographics have shown that the largest percentage of fans are in their 20s and 30s! I do see that as time goes on there has been an interesting shift in demographics. I’ve seen a number of older women and men being part of these fandoms too
I think that trend needs to be explored more. Do the psychological mechanisms at play with younger target audience still apply? Are there any different reasons and ways in which older fans engage with the fandom or are they indistinguishable from the teens?
Their economic impact is felt because someone's gotta pay for all that merch and 9 different versions of one album.
@@elenymm bts only did 4 versions of albums years ago when everyone was doing bundles in the west & east. i know bts are the face of kpop but youre talking about the other groups who sell bundles and 10+ albums to get a facetime call from their idols lol
@@mercurymaiden2391 I am talking about other groups. This phenomenon isn't restricted only to BTS.
So true! I’m a new BTS fan and I’m 30. Lol!
yeah BTS are getting sponsored by phone and cars brands, you can't say that they only target little girls with products like that because who the fuck buy a car for their 12 years old, obviously it targets older demographics
I'm not into boy bands, but I love boy band fans. I love to see their enthusiasm & joy for their bands & I think its really neat & heartwarming.
If being a boyband fan is a phase, it's my longest phase yet
Coming from someone who’s never been into boy bands but was part of fangirl culture (in the form of Wattpad and fanfiction): it makes me super upset to see all the double standards forced onto teenage girls even til this day. Girls can like Starbucks without being called “basic” yet every boy in existence plays video games and that’s “complex and individualized etc…” It’s like society can’t leave girls alone, which is just another extension of misogyny since boys pass by virtually invisible. And this is no different for fandoms; while there are valid criticisms to be made about fangirl culture, it’s often used as a way to tear girls down with no alternative outlet for their feelings.
I was teaching a kid’s summer camp a couple weeks ago, and what struck me the most was the boys loud and stark protest to anything they deemed “girly”. And these boys were no older than eight!! It’s virtually conditioned into them to view feminine activities and entertainment as inferior as _literal toddlers_ whilst the male-centric stuff, such as robot fighting, are considered “the standard” that all people can enjoy (we were watching robots btw, and the girls had not a word to say about it. They didn’t complain half as much as the boys when it came to traditionally masculine activities).
And this mentality seeps into adulthood and reveals just how deep the vitriol towards feminine coded behaviors and traits runs. I’m so happy I’m about my twenties, because I was getting exhausted of having to defend myself against society’s unfair labels put on teen girls; but it’s also extremely sad at the same time. Men can engage in violent, derogatory, and insanely harmful content that actively destroys many women’s lives and it’ll be passed off as harmless fun, while girls can barely have a crush without being treated with disgust. Just look at the way corn and soft core corn is perceived versus smut, to give an extreme example. Smut is most commonly consumed by women, and (while it definitely can perpetuate toxic ideals and expectations) is largely mocked whereas corn (and things like Girls Gone Wild, which is notoriously exploitative and debilitating to the girls featured in it) has active, negative consequences involving real people that society readily encourages young boys to consume, or at least diminishes the harmfulness of. It’s just frustrating that we’re constantly held to an insanely higher moral standard, while simultaneously being expected to carry the emotional labor of teaching and correcting young boys on the bad habits that were never course corrected for them in the first place.
princess tutu fans are so intelligent
You just completely encapsulated years worth of my thoughts into one youtube comment thank you 😭
I say this as someone who generally does not enjoy playing video games. I can assure you no one thinks of guys playing video games as "complex and individualized." Video games are seen by a lot of people as a waste of time. Think of the stereotype of the fat nerdy gamer who never leaves his room. There are equal amounts of criticism for both sides, you just mostly see criticism against women because you are a woman. Most men will mostly see criticism directed towards men because they are men. People just need to step out of their circle to realize that. There are different corners of the world/internet that criticize different things. Most people only ever see the backlash against their own demographic because it is directed at them. Yes, a lot of this kind of backlash is unnecessary, biased, and hurtful but it exists on all sides
as someone who is a kpop stan and had a cousin who was a directioner. i realised in kpop that in multiple fandoms for boy groups there 2 sides, the normal fun enjoyable part and the worryingly delusional side of the fandom that are cringey and obsessive.
Tiny correction: Obsessive fans in Korea are called "Sasaengs" (사생) not
Sesang (세상) .
Sesang means world in Korean and is a common term.
Edit: corrected Romanisation of 세상
Ik some letters was missing somewhere 💀
Thank you for this
Thank you I knew both these words are different but when she said saesang I got so confused and tried to come up with an explanation for why they'd call obsessive fans world and thought maybe it's because by being obsessive thier own world only revolves around the celebrity so they can be called world
Thank you for the correction. I slightly cringed at the 세상 part.
this!!
One more tiny correction world is sesang세상 it’s not saesang새상 that you mentioned, saesang means nothing in Korea
The scary thing about the boyband formula is that it works no matter what. No matter if you know they are being abused behind scenes and no matter if you know deep down that the ships and their relationship is not a 100% real. I made fun of my big sister for liking The Backstreet Boys and I felt like I was an intelectual for realizing the formula and thinking that she was being overdramatic over getting tickets for them but then in 2011 I fell for One Direction and I couldn't concentrate on anything else except them, they literally made me learn english just so I could understand their interviews, I was a whole new person and if anyone made fun of them I would go insane as well I was convinced Larry was real, and with all this my little sister made fun of me and said that she couldn't believe I fell for their propaganda which is now awfully funny since she fell for BTS like two years ago and can't stop talking about them. I can't even make fun of her because I was there. It's like a curse.
It rlly is a curse I used to make fun of my friends for liking kpop boybands and look at me now I feel like a hypocrite for laughing 💀
nahh yall larry shippers are a different breed lol
and good for ur sis for finding bts. shes in good hands they r genuine and talented guys who at this point r family for life, like there isnt anyone who loves the members more than the members themselves
Ay chica! You didn’t even mention my favorite two boy bands that not only left a mark in my life, but also made the term “boyband” as it is today. They are Menudo from Puerto Rico and New Kids on the Block.
Menudo was the Philippines’ favorite boy band in the 90s too. The whole country went crazy with them.
When it comes to looks and kpop, I find fans to be hypocritical. They will criticize the companies for having visual as a position and forcing plastic surgery and diets BUT THEN they will also drool over the abs and tight clothes of idols all the time. Not to mention that in practically every group the most popular member is "the prettiest one". The only reason why companies act the way they do is because fans act the way they do. And these HUMAN BEINGS are stuck in the middle of everyone's expectations.
They will not only drool over abs and tight clothes, they will *also* lash out at every idol they deem not pretty enough, too skinny or too fat. I swear there is no middle ground among kpop stans. If we follow their logic, everyone is anorexic or obese. I support many Kpop artists, but I lost count over the number of times I came across inappropriate comments from kpop stans.
Note : I'm talking about kpop stans as a group/community, not as individuals.
@@ashrise my least favourite part of it is that they will say Korean fans do that and Korean culture puts insane pressure. Ok, sure. That in no way implies that international fans are better, but they always act holier-than-thou.
@@elenymm I hate this part too. I'm pretty sure it's the international fans who normalized skinny shaming in Kpop. :/
I get your perspective, but I find that the people who seriously and genuinely criticise the standards and pressure in the industry are usually not the ones who blindly "drool" over someone's looks.
(If you see the kpop fans as a homogeneous group it might come across that way but that's not really realistic.)
Additionally, I think it's entirely possible to criticise that people are held to insane standards and still acknowledge that someone is indeed pretty in your opinion.
For example, people who are mainstream-attractive are also more successful on TH-cam. Yet I'm not gonna stop watching Mina just cause she fits into that high standard and is above-average pretty.
@@Mad.E I have actually seen someone bash a company for their standards in one tweet and then tweeting a fancam of an idols butt in the next one a couple of minutes ago. And it definitely is just one of the examples.
Recently an idol from my favourite group talked about being on a diet and fans were all "oh no, eat what you want". That guy is always objectified for his looks. And when I commented that you can't have it both ways, people justified their behavior by saying that the entire industry is like that so what can they do. (Think about that for a second. The hypocrisy blew my mind.)
Of course not all fans are the same, but I honestly can't put that disclaimer in every comment.
I also think there is a difference between acknowledging that someone is handsome and publicly commenting on how you'd like to pin him against the wall and lick his abs (that's just a mild example, hopefully you get what I'm trying to say.)
To me, one of my "golden years" is once being a very huge fangirl of kpop boygroups since 2011-2012'ish. I met a lot of amazing people in the community for a long time until the lockdown 2020 happened, i kinda lost my spirit after it, but, all i can say is, it was good while it last. 😊
2010s Kpop era was something else. It was a very supportive community which it didnt really matter which group you were listening to, people were appreciating the korean culture and their music in general. I still listen to Kpop time to time but it's not the same. My music taste definitely changed but also kpop fandoms these days are pushing me away. It became super toxic as it became more popular.
(***talking about the international fans... Sasaengs still existed back then. )
@@bysirene i think once people started the “__ paved the way” arguments, that’s when the rise of toxic stan culture took off. like fan wars existed before then but things really escalated around mid 3rd gen and it’s only gotten worse with international kpop stans that get into kpop during the 4th gen era. it’s just a different environment now
Also In defense of kpop (even though this can apply to both girl and boy bands) It was weird. Like at the time i got into it 2008, it was "weird", "edgy", "foreign", "different". I was also into alternative music at the time and being in a country white town liking anything Asian was like mind blowing for the hicks around me. Since I was already into alternative music kpop was an easy thing for me to get into since I felt like I was going against the grain. Funny got bullied for liking kpop because it was unknown......now i get bullied by people online because its so popular.
@@ewoma8234 Oh no yeah im not saying its bad or that we should gatekeep people from getting into kpop. I was just noting how funny full circle it is. I'm glad its more acceptable now and people are getting into it much easier. Its also funny because when i started making amvs in 2009 on youtube it was also expected if you liked anime and made amvs you 99.99999% of the time were also a fan of kpop. Like so many classic amv's and mep's were with kpop songs. But I also notice now a lot of anime fans will shit on kpop when that so wasnt the case back then
I did the same thing, just many years later - I've been into alternative music for a long time (though I am still a fan of many pop songs too) and then discovered Kpop right before it blew up. It seemed like a bit of an odd transition but it worked somehow! I did (and still do) get some judgement for it, but I imagine it's way better than it would've been in the past!
This literally happened to me too and it's unfortunate but at this point looking back at it, yea it really sucks that it happened that way but what you got out of it was a happy connection between the content you were watching and sure these bullies fuked around and said stupid shit but in the end you formulated new interests gained a more interesting variety of likes and dislikes and people can't really take that from you, it was you who had a fun time liking kpop and anime which you still do now and its pretty cool to some people and dumb to others and will always be that way, as for the people who bully you, what they say and do is out of your control so imo it might be better to focus on the bright side and enjoy what you like reguardless of what these people say and take the little win of knowing you arent the one aggressively putting people down
@@atomicfluff487 Very well said! And absolutely what people say about it now is out of my control luckily for the most part I try to stay out of the drama, like not having a twitter or anything. If someone can be enlightened or wants to learn some info i'll give it to them but if they just hate on me no reason, there isnt much I can do. I just know it makes me happy and thats all that matters c: I have people in my life who also have similar interest so i can just be happy with them
I'm not into kpop, but I have similar experiences with anime and Korean webtoons. I lived in Japan for 4 years. Nobody looks at you weird for it there. Anime is becoming more mainstream in the US, but it is still a relatively small community with most of us being in our early 40s or younger. My mom is more chill about it now, but my dad is still super judgy. I'm tired of trying to get people to understand it is simply a Japanese take on a medium used for storytelling and equally valid as live action. If anything, it is an interesting example of how one culture's media inspires another with a highly successful end result.
You got Ringo and George mixed up when talking about their assigned roles in the band!!
this!!!
Yess I was seeing if anyone else noticed the inner George Harrison fan is reeling
Yes!!! I’m glad someone else saw it too!
I'm a BTS fan and I'm from Liverpool and have always loved the Beatles and as soon as I saw that I was like WTF 😂 guess she only knows Paul and John
I heard of George as the quiet one and Ringo the funny one growing up
Clearly I haven’t outgrown my SHINee phase bc I nearly lost it when I heard Jonghyun’s BABAAAYYYYY
Me too, I was so disappointed when it stopped, I was already getting in to it 😂
i think something i really appreciate about bts is that i never feel like a crazy fan girl even tho many interviewers will try and push that label onto us, and in front of them too. you’ll see the boys change the direction and point out that we are so supportive of them and they appreciate us so much. like yes you can’t speak for all armys like you can’t say anyone one group of people is perfect but there are some amazing positives i’ve seen some do, such as donations and bringing awareness to many topics. but that’s never the stuff that gets pointed out most of the time
exactly! they treat us with respect because they know not all their fans are crazy and that our support is what keeps them at the top. it’s nice that they refrain from belittling fans (at least publicly) like everyone else does
@@kittenluver4lyfe I've seen people belittle armies tho. I think it's only within the kpop community where army gets respected like you say, but anyone outside kpop will look down on any kpop fandom. And ngl, even I find it creepy sometimes. I understand being a fan of a certain artist, but I've seen some army's, which, to you they may seem like they're doing good, but they get so defensive about BTS that it creeped me out. I know BTS has done many charities and they've probably helped many of their fans when they felt low and whatnot with some of their music, since it's what I've heard has happened. But I cannot fathom how it's possible to love people you've never met to the point some army's do. Not just army, other kpop fans as well. I've seen some bizarre posts on Quora where some army will trash other kpop groups just because they see no other hand other than bts being good. To them BTS means their entire life, and that outright creeps me out. I know this is bad behavior, the toxic side of fandoms, but it has happened way too many times to just ignore it. I have nothing against BTS, but I have everything against those people who obsess to a degree where the only thing left about their personality is BTS. Humans are complex, there's so much more you can like
@@sin3358 if you say that armys are respected within the kpop community, I'll assume you have never interacted with said kpop community. they literally made an "independece day" to get armys out of the kpop fandoms lol
Boysbands are always affiliated to what young girls like and as something negative. Like having a majority of women followers ain’t the flex of the century.
Besides the stereotypes i feel like these groups have more freedom nowadays.
Yes, these groups have more freedom nowadays but there is still *a lot* to improve. The Kpop industry is still toxic.
@@ashrise i’m not talking about kpop industry especially since ALL the music industries are like cursed. they just seem to have more freedom.
@@LondonBlue i really hate that mindset people have. i hate how it personally affects me too by letting it get to me and i feel ashamed sometimes because of my interests :/
Boybands have to be sober:
*Flashbacks to bts performing Run drunk live on tv +bts festa + basically 60% of all live streams*💀💀
I totally agree w the video btw😅i just thought all the drunk memes and videos I’ve seen on ig🥲
Yeah that's kinda not true if you're a fan of kpop you know that. Like Seventeen's Hoshi drunk interview (he was HAMMERED lol). Or the some of Going Seventeen episodes where the guys are VERY clearly drunk
i was never into pop boy bands but i was obsessed with rock bands like my chemical romance, early panic at the disco, etc and i looked up videos of the members like doing stuff or talking about their work or those ''funny interview moments'' and it helped a lot during dark times!
Haha, I was the same My Chem and Taking Back Sunday, now I get the same thing from BTS, emo lyrics and funny videos, the perfect combination of validation and distraction.
One tiny correction… George and Ringo were switched on the clip with their personality labels. Love this topic- I grew up in the 90s and loved *NSYNC and was so sad when I was older and learned about how difficult their lives were at the time and afterward because of trauma from the experience. My dad grew up in the 60s a huge Beatles fan so I guess it runs in the family!
I'm an ateez fan (kpop).
I got introduced to kpop by SHINee, so they'll forever be close to my heart.
I was 1D fan when they were still active and I just gravitated towards kpop. Kpop is slowly filling the void 1D left.
Ateez are such good performers. I love their lore, music, choreographies and vocals.
It's hypocritical being called "just a fangirl", especially by people who could break a tv screen if their favourite football team lost a match.
Hi fellow Atiny!!!!💖 ((also i definitely agree!!)
I've never been into boy bands or really any celebrities for that matter. It never interests me much. But I take exception to people saying boy bands are inauthentic like they're the only manufactured music. Most music groups or solo artists are that way. They don't write their own songs, produce their music, or even play an instrument half the time. They're chosen because they're good looking and have a nice voice and then given a persona and told what songs to record. It's not unique to boy bands yet boy bands get so much more hate. And I don't even get why it's such a bad thing to not be good at all aspects of music at once. Being good at singing and dancing is a lot on its own. Being acomplished at an instrument is a lot on its own. Writing prefect songs that are familiar enough to be catchy but still unique enough to be new is a lot on its own. Expecting everyone in music to be a prodigy is a little much.
right?? why do people expect that you can write lyrics, compose, and play at least 2 instruments just because you can sing??? it's not a 3 in 1 deal
@shush right?! No one expects Opera singers to write new material. And yet you can still get college degrees in musical performance and win emmys. Sometimes, just being a really good singer is enough.
Plus, I would argue that even if they have the skills to write their new songs, they don't have the time. Being the face of what is basically a company is a busy busy job.
I think it’s the disappointment in finding out that a group of colleagues (let’s be honest) are not exactly bffs even though they sing about love and friendships together.
THIS.
If Harry was in Harry’s House, it wouldn’t be a line. It would be a sea of humanity.
As a Beatles fan, I quickly have to point out that you switched Ringo and George up around minute 17 of the video. Lovely and interesting video as always!!
I’m almost 23 and even though my 5sos era and then bts era are finished I still like to go back and listen/watch their stuff (not to mention that I still truly exited for new 5sos albums). I like to read fanfictions occasionally or even go back and add a couple of sentences to those I was writing at the time. It brings me comfort, it reminds me of days when I didn’t have to pay my rent and buy groceries. I was just happy. All I knew in life was to fixate on specific boy and ignore those douchebags around me, those that would call me fat but “my boy” would ask me to eat well. And I also really cherish the memory of my mam being involved in my journey and telling me stories about her fangirl experience.
It is genuinely the best time in my life and I’m happy that I get to share this experience with other now women.
Thank you so much for this episode, I enjoyed it very much!!
I feel this about 5sos (I never got into K-pop), I’m 21.
I even had the same haircut as Mikey for part of highschool and going to their concert will forever be a wonderful memory (I went when they toured with Hey Violet before Hey Violet got bigger).
True
the being pg part is something i started to notice recently. like bts, would do comercials but those were centered around the age they were at the time (fried chicken when they were teenagers, electrodomestics when they got older). And i think it's something refresing seeing considering that most groups get stuck with their youthful image while their fans grow up. Like a few months ago, they did beer commercials, and no one saw it as a bad thing, because the public, the fandom and the country, saw them as young adults. i hope in the upcoming years, more groups have more freedoom to do the things they like, to take a break from working and live their dreams peacefully :)
TXT’s Taehyun actually recently spoke up about sasaengs last night on their flight back to Korea after doing some performances in Japan and how it made them uncomfortable to follow them on their planes and take pictures of them sleeping or just trying to relax. TXT has a history of having some pretty bad ones, two of them once followed two of the members into a bathroom. Idols are still humans no matter what and to put them in such uncomfortable situations is messed up. Which makes me think about how some companies do nothing to stop it and the theory that the companies are in on it and sell the artists information so they can get more press
Big hit needs to tighten security or they should get private jets like bts have
it's crazy that hybe does such a poor job of protecting them
and then i saw people criticising him for speaking up about it... its so disgusting how people are against someone defending their basic privacy
You are literally a queen the wag you explain everything in context is honestly the best the aesthetic the everything ❤️❤️
i think that this video needs a part 2!! i loved hearing you discuss this topic but it felt like it was cut short
Jackson Five was huge, but New Edition, Temptations is never mentioned when people talk about boy bands. Frankie Lymon and the teenagers were really good too. Most modern boybands got all their influences from them. Shout out to them. So happy you covered this! I Love BTS too.
I just wanna say that some of us just really like the music and the singers personalities.
exactly
Theyre literally manufactured to build a parasocial relationship with u
@@JaneDoe-kx3yz Yeah but that's not the case for every fan. I'm an adult, I have a job, I have a boyfriend and I love BTS also. People think that being a fan of bts means that you're a child or you are delusional and it just rubs me the wrong way. A lot of us love the music, their message, the way they carry themselves and their personalities. That's pretty much it.
EXACTLY! it has always been that simple for me.. people making such a big deal of liking a boyband is just stupid in my opinion.. like chill bro, some of us just wanna listen to the music!
fangirling bts for me will never be just a phase, its a literal lifestyle at this point😭
same 😭😭 it’s almost unhealthy how I can’t stop thinking about them every single day. The literally changed my life.
Same! They deserve it tho, they have done so much for us :D
I'm so glad I've found my safe space.. I just got into a heated argument under a TH-cam video because someone mentioned Taehyung.. The name calling, the hateful words.. I still haven't recovered. My goodness.
How long y'all have been a fan?
@@satviksingh1200 for me, 6 years
Jihyo from twice literally grew up in jyp entertainment, for 12 YEARS, where she trained to be an idol. luckily she debuted though, and now shes a member in one of the most successful kpop groups today
It's clear that the guy was having difficulty talking about the inappropriate interaction, so he ended up with a nervous laugh, to which the host started laughing, when it was his place NOT to do that... and then very telling how that woman's voice is the one to say "it's not funny". Society is not trained to take men seriously when they're victims of this kind of stuff.
23:00 in regards to the friendships and bonds they might create in boybands, a nice example is GOT7, a kpop boy group originally from JYP Ent. They ALL left the company as of January/2021 but ig because of the fans and also because of their friendship, they desired to maintain the group’s name and did all the legal procedures to get everything to belong to them instead of the previous company. As of now, they are all mostly on different companies, releasing their solo stuff, but have a contract with Warner Music Korea for the group stuff, like their recently released album.
I think that maybe, if they weren’t friends or didn’t like each other as much, this probably wouldn’t be possible, independently of how many fans they have, as we have seen with One Direction (no hate pls). They went as far as to go through all the legal procedures to get the group’s name and identity to actually belong to them so that they could release their songs with no problems.
Yes I agree 🤧 I’m sure if they didn’t have such a tight bond they wouldn’t have fought and maintained the band
this reminds me of a tweet i saw today 'kpop is fun til u remember it preys on ur vulnerable human emotions to make u so deeply invested in the parasocial relationship that u either spend exorbitant amounts of money to validate that relationship or watch sadly from a distance while the people richer than u do just that' the industry surrounding boybands couldn't live without a cycle of exploitation and desire to turn a profit as large as possible
i saw that too 💀
3 things that would be great to discuss: a deeper conversation around the “not real music” piece, boy bands who break the mold like BROCKHAMPTON, and generally: BTS and ARMY. Surprising lack of talk about BTS here considering they’re the biggest artist in the world right now and I think there’s a lot of reasons for that outside of marketing, etc.
Also - I’m glad you brought up twilight because in retrospect the way it was treated in the media/cultural zeitgeist was heinously misogynistic towards teen girls under the guise of critiquing twilight’s narrative quality. People just want to hate the media young women find value in because they hate young women, not because the media is objectively bad.
Edit: spelling lol
YES THIS CAN SHE PLEASE MAKE A PART TWO
There are many classical examples of male music idolization/"fangirling" as well! There's the castrati of early opera; male eunuchs were HUGE sex symbols for high-class opera-going women. And then there was "Lisztomania"; girls would literally fight each other to grab a cigarette butt Franz Liszt flicked into a gutter. It's a tale as old as time! :)
this video brought up a lot of interesting context, but it honestly.... didn't feel like a good defense of boybands? its sympathetic to the artists, but only focuses on the negative aspcts of boyband history, doesn't delve neither into the healthy aspects of fandoms like it said it would, or the actual music and its impact. from acting like its always just a phase to flying over the actual music trends started by boybands, their impact on the music industry , cases of groups that have a different perspective, it felt like every other discussion of it, if less condenscending. the impact of motown groups, the beatles reshaping of the entire music industry, bts' recent unique place on an international music space, and the trend of lasting boybands being "recognized" by male critics later in their careers (when largely young female fans have made them established) are a few things that could've been delved into. theres some misinfo about kpop here too that other ppl have mentioned, (skinship, sasaengs), more complexity to the 'hysteria' stereotypes that could've gone deeper
I agree
I agree agree and also throwing BTS into the pile doesn’t make any sense
What are healthy aspects of the fandom
@@sonamy1231000 the underexamined but actually extremely impressive capacity for organization, the strong sense of community a lot young fans develop, the various friendships created in a fandom space, the ability to connect with people from many different places(most relevant post internet and especially now with kpop), the pulse for music that has often ended up being "validated" later on (the beatles, the monkees, the beach boys, robbie williams, even justin timberlake), the creative environment with stuff like fanart, cover videos, dance covers, remixes, fanvids, even fanfiction, and the complex relationship with girls and other young people feeling free and safe to express attraction and their sexuality in this setting - the last one mina touched on, but briefly; there are also interesting angles of young queer people and their relationship with boybands and their fandoms. conservative fretting over this freedom was actually behind a lot of the derision towards beatlemania, for example. fandoms existences are complex like any other large community.
@@lizwho_o i actually think it would make perfect sense as they are the biggest boyband we've had in a long while, globally. maybe since the beatles. their career and their fandom dynamics have a myriad of interesting similarities and specific differences with other boybands and kpop boygroups, and that informs 1- their western success 2- kpops current wave globally 3- how ppl view boybands/groups in general right now. what was weird was that she didn't mention them, or went deep at all into the current interest in kpop groups, though images were used; but to be fair maybe that would be too much for just one video. still, it felt a bit incomplete, using anecdotes from 2nd gen kpop and then...not talking abt this relationship right now.
Louis Walsh: You only need five guys in a group to have something for everyone
Me a K-pop stan: Memorising all members in NCT, Seventeen and EXO
I don't know about ya'll, but this video felt like group therapy.
I feel like this was the conversation I've been needing to hear, to unpack the crazed teenage obsession I had with One Direction. I had so much shame from others and myself for liking boybands so much, but looking back on it introspectively as an adult, and hearing the psychology of it, has made me much more sympathetic to my 16-year-old self.
Like, of course I liked the 16-year-old cheeky boys, who had the squeaky clean persona. They were miles better than any of the boys that I knew in real life!
I’ve never been into modern boy bands. On the other hand I love the Beatles, I think they are the ultimate boy band because they’re music is timeless. By the way, I couldn’t help but notice that you mixed up Ringo and George in 17:24. Great video as always😊
I'm nearly 48 and was never into boy bands, although I had friends who were obsessed with New Kids On The Block. I don't consider The Beatles a boy band because they were an actual band who played their own instruments.
Scrolling through the comments hoping someone else mentioned that she got Ringo and George mixed up. Hurt a little
When you call it a phase and act all this high above it all like only teenage girls would like this is so patronizing and it’s exactly the type of language that has been used to belittle teenage girls and their interests, like is perfectly normal for a boy to like sports and continue to like them until he is older but just because boy bands are liked by teenage girl then there is just no way that is normal and we should punch down on teenage girls and their interests which is awful
How old are you
We should shame grown men for liking sports.
@@sonamy1231000 this^ LMAO
Calling something a phase is NOT inherently negative. You aren't lesser than anyone else for losing interest in something and it becoming a phase. It's your perception of the word "phase" as being negative.
It's completely normal that your interests would change because we as people also change, and it's a given that teenagers go through a lot of changing (hormones *cough cough*) and hence most of the phases would happen in that period. Some of them carry into adulthood but most don't.
For boybands it's even more likely that it would be a phase. First of all, hormones will do sh*t whether or not you want them to. Second, having a lasting relationship with a friend or partner is hard enough, you'd have to love them as you both go through all sorts of metamorphoses, what more a parasocial one. I'm willing to bet you're the one feeling patronized, but don't be seriously it's normal lol
@@abimon76 you are assuming that all people that like “boy bands” are teenagers which is where your hormonal influence starts and ends but there are a lot of bands who are liked no matter the age range and don’t end up been a phase of a teenager that is just the box that some have place upon “boy bands” to patronize their fandoms and just put down whatever is like by a mainly teenage fandom which alienates the rest of the audience and tells so much about how we look at teenage girls
I was born for this is a book by Alice Oseman that centres 2 character points of view. The front man of a popular boy band, and a fan girl. It goes into parasocial relationships, anxiety, band members being overworked, and a lot of the issues talked about in this video. It’s a really good book and I highly recommend it.
Loved this one. My younger sister was really into Kpop, while I tended to obsess more over Jdarama characters and fanfiction, but the "experience your full range of emotion in a safe direction" totally stands. (I mean, also the escapism of it, happening basically during middle and high school, when the pressure to perform and hyperfocus on impending adulthood just keeps mounting). I think even as an adult, any crushes I develop focus on unattainable unavailable people, and if it ever morphs into something with actual potential, that's too real and too scary, no thank you. :) Disney's "Turning Red", released in a couple months before you released this video, does a lovely and respectful portrayal of teenage fans (doesn't go into the perspective of the boy band at all). ... I appreciated your highlight that teenage girls enjoy being rowdy and loud in a similar way to teenage boys, but that the context of sporting events is normalized, while boy band concerts (potentially a safer venue both emotionally AND physically?) is stigmatized.
I used to be scared and gaslight into hating boy bands. I’m glad to say, I grew up to like them again and be fine with it and defend my niece and letting her talk about whatever she’s into bcz I didn’t have anyone that did for me. We call it, character development ✨
I was so excited to see this video! I've been a kpop fan since 2020, so I have a few things to say about it. There's so much conversation in the way of parasocial relationships, fan boundaries and manufactured experiences.
The biggest barrier for me was probably the shame, which sounds sort of funny - I tried getting into kpop back in 2016 and 2018 but I was made fun of by my brother so I dropped it quickly. I felt like I was seen as a silly, hysterical little girl who must be having fantasies about all the group's members, when in reality I just really liked their music videos but I had no physical attraction. It was really frustrating and degrading to have my personality completely misinterpreted/reduced, and since I was holding a lot internalized misogyny, I felt like I was suddenly dismissed as 'one of those girls', erasing me as a person.
In the present, my kpop interest became renewed by escapism and a desire for comfort. I read a really lovely article about emotional support kpop boys by Mashable which sums it up pretty well and eased a lot of my guilt. The idealism, the familiarity and consistency, the no-strings-attached endearment, the music and messages - it's such a huge source of positivity in my life. I'll never meet these people in real life, I'll never be more than a view count on a video, but that's exactly what I want. It's not physical, romantic, or a friendship, it's just a mutual exchange of content and monetary support. I'm probably a pretty mild case: I don't spend any money or have a kpop social media account, but I still get a lot of strength from their music and variety shows (and can talk about kpop for days, haha).
Slightly related, on boy groups being considered 'real music', in kpop there are a handful of boy group members being involved in their own music (and performance) production, notably: 3Racha from Stray Kids, the rap line from BTS, Jonghyun from SHINee, some members of NCT, and many members of Seventeen.
Thank you for the amazing video Mina, and thanks to anyone who read this! I'm curious if anyone had a similar experience to mine :D
I know exactly what you mean. Many of us kpop fans are not delusional and just get comfort and entertainment from the community and songs/contents. I’ve met some of my best friends through kpop. Also I recently moved, and it’s been a good way to make friends locally - which is hard to do with Covid and working remotely. So nice to have a community! Anyone who thinks kpop isn’t real music can kiss my ass hahaha. Also would like to add my faves OnlyOneOf because they do some of their music production and have a Produced by myself series. They also all debuted as adults! Which I would like to see more of in the industry. They also do a lot of their choreo themselves and have some of the best choreo and dance videos in kpop in my opinion. 💖
@@KyubinSlay OH wow, that's super cool - I casually listen to OnlyOneOf & love their dance vids but I had no idea they were involved in their own production!! Thanks for letting me know, that's the push I needed to finally go check out their solos haha :) I also really love that they all debuted as adults, that is 10000% something I'm hoping for more often in the newest gen. Kpop must be a great way to make friends, I'm really looking forwards to it in uni! ! thank you for the reply, it genuinely feels amazing to be understood 💞
In another universe, Mina is May Lee fangirling over SHINEee and turning into a red panda at their concert.
I like this fan-girling/boying era we live in only if we don't turn into saseng!
BUT I would never trust a company after SM - TVXQ, YG- 2NE1, CUBE - BTOB, JYP - Wonder Girls, TS Entertainment - B.A.P. and many more examples of how the bubble just pops and starts smelling everywhere.
p.s I like how this is coming after BlackPink's comeback and uses kinda the background sound from Pink Venom. Personal opinion - I think the comeback is disappointing after such a long wait, but it is what it is I guess (in the comment below I explain why I think that).
Disappointing how?
Disappointing how exactly? What did you expect? This is a group under YG ENTERTAINMENT, this is how they do this. It's kinda silly to think otherwise 😅
That's actually another good example that she could have included in the video. How it was depicted in the movie Turning Red. How the impact of a cultural phenomenon inspired part of a plot of a Disney movie.
@@flonny1340 Tbh I expected more and I think a lot of people that appreciate the music (not only the visuals and how expensive everything is in the video and promotions) do. "Pink Venom" sounds like "HYLT" and "HYLT" sounds like "Kill this love". All produced by Teddy and I think songs like "Pretty savage" and "Lovesick girls" (when YG actually works with other producers/songwriters) are much more Black Pink and let them show how they abracadarba this shit. And I'm not even gonna mention how Pink Venom is with the craziest lyrics out there atm (the whole song reminds me of GG's "I got a Boy" - just a mess. Catchy but a mess).
Anyway, I just hope YG don't do them dirty like 21 and the girls grow more and more (even outside the group) so they don't just kind of disappear if something happens with the group as we know unfortunately their industry puts an expiration date to artists and groups (even more unfortunate to women and example here is SM with SJ and GG, YG with BB and 21 witch makes my blood boil).
Omg ts entertainment 💀☠️
use this as a dislike button if you felt that this video didn't actually talk about the positivity of being a boy band stan rather the negativities and further highlighted the stigma associated with boybands by making it seem like it's just a phase or its all about teenage girls who stan these feminine looking men 💀
How ironic that her title is "in defense of boy bands" but her video was more like "the dark side of boy bands" 😂
mina being a shawol and an exol is the plot twist I never knew I needed
The One Direction to BTS/kpop pipeline is so real….my journey took several years but I ended up just like everyone else 😭
I really liked that you went into the history of boybands a lot more than what I've seen in most other video essays on the topic which was great, but the one thing i don't love that tends to happen when people discuss this topic is that, because these are discussions about the general idea of boybands there's no real space to explore nor understand any of these acts, their music, history or situation well, which is to be expected but i just hope that people can take artists like BTS as an example, who's history is complex and nuanced and who don't really fit in with a lot of what was discussed in this video but are still grouped in, and look into them with a more open mind if they're interested.
Because attaching all the baggage in the word 'boyband' onto artists like them just doesn't feel fair, it never has, because it often times alienates them from serious discussion about music or artistry in a way that doesn't make any sense or it leaves people with an impression of them that makes them feel justified in talking about/over them like they have no agancy or say in their careers or music, it can get pretty degrading and it's frustrating because they're some of the biggest artists in the world rn, both as a group and individually, but most people still get surprised when they find out they make their own music, it's wild.
Also as a side note on parasocial relationships, i think the talk around them is interesting?? *Elliot* *sang* made a pretty good video essay about the topic that i wish more people would watch, because aside from his video & a few other discussions I've seen online i don't see the topic really being talked about with half the nuance with which it should be. For example, i don't think it's right to say that parasocial relationships are purely one sided, it's not like artists don't have communication nor form attachments and bonds with their fanbases, maybe it's not a bond made on an individual basis but that doesn't really make it less of a human connection (toxic or not), nor is it fair to say that most fans who find themselves caring deeply about these artists *Must* be naive about the reality of the relationship and have no sense of boundries or understanding of their position as fans and the artist's position as a public figure.
I think maybe parasocial relationships could potentially be harder to manage for younger people so that they don't become toxic but i don't think that makes them inherently toxic, they're just another type of relationship that needs to be navigated differently, it doesn't help tho that the kind of culture we have around celebrities rn encourages people to purposefully ignore healthy boundries.
Edit: i forgot to also add that even though there's nothing wrong with a lot of boybands having a majority teenage/female audience, this still doesn't always apply, because again, groups like BTS don't fit into that, they just make really good music and our interest in it isn't a 'boyband fase'... they're just incredible artists who got as big as they are because they make such good music, music that speaks to a lot of different people.
Edit 2: yeah no forget that, i just saw your tweets and i get that you don't care, I'm sorry that i brought this up to you too on here i must have forgotten my place in this world as an irrational fangirl, no criticism of mine is actually valid after all
She barely talked about bts
@@standingstare she didn't really mention them at all but had them as part of the thumbnail and used them as part of the b-roll so it's implied they're a part of what she's discussing? Idk what exactly you're trying to point out to me tho
Fan girling demands a lot of time and commitments that my lazy personality just can’t do
Lol I’m in this boat. I’ve never really understood it.
I've personally never understood photocards collecting. I find it insane to spend so much money on a piece of paper basically.
@@elenymm same, i only have one kpop album because i wanted the cd (i still have a cd player dont ask why) and it came with all these posters and stickers and i don't know what to do with them
@@kimlip_tree2009 I buy albums and stuff but I don't trade or buy. I pull my bias a lot and like all the members of the group so I don't mind getting any of them. I just put the stuff away in a box on my shelf. And it just is there... 🤷♀️
@@elenymm what groups do you stan?
You have a clarity of exposure that is stunning! I did my BA and MA in musib business because indeed, I was stunned by the boybands effect in the 90s and wanted to be part of the factory of dreams that could provide objects upon which teenagers could project because really, it seemed to me like most of the value and thoughts belonged to the individuals, they just needed a point to focus their energy outside of themselves and boyband characters being as safe as you point out were a perfect way to do that. The bits you mentioned at the beginning about sheet music I turned around to my partner saying "I studied that stuff and I wouldn't have thought of talking about that on the subject of boybands!" So really, amazing job, great clarify, such useful information to give context and meaning. I have spent the last few months researching about fandoms and communities studies and truly, I wish I could sum up the information in a direct and informal way as you manage cause it's how people actually remember and learn things. Definitely me with this, thank you ❤️
As a kpop listener (since “stans” on twitter don’t know how to act) I like the community kpop brings out, and sure if someone were to talk sh*t about a situation, like Jeongyeon from Twice for example, when people make fatphobic comments about her, I will defend her. It’s perfectly natural to Stan by your groups. However I do know that there is a threshold that many stans cross which I think is hard to return from. To me, that way I keep myself from crossing that line is to reflect on other accounts. In other words what really grounds me is the stan Jimin accounts that tell me to k*ll myself. It’s really humbling.