Positive vs. Punitive Dog Training | Teacher's Pet With Victoria Stilwell
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2012
- Watch more dog training tips with Victoria Stilwell: • Dog Training With Vict...
Today, I'm speaking with Jennifer Arnold of Canine Assistants about the benefits of positive reinforcement training methods.
In Teacher's Pet, Victoria Stilwell shows you how to employ her Positively Method to train your dog the right way, growing your level of communication to strengthen the bond between you and your pet.
Have a question for Victoria? She'll be checking in regularly, so be sure to leave your comments and questions below.
Victoria Stilwell is widely known as a dog trainer, author, and television presenter. Stilwell served as a judge on the CBS show Greatest American Dog and is best known as the host of the Animal Planet dog training TV show It's Me or the Dog, where she counsels families with problem pets and solves their dogs' behavior problems. In 2010, she launched Positively, the world's first global network of hand-picked world-class dog trainers dedicated to providing the public a brand name they can trust in humane, force-free training.
More tips from Victoria: positively.com
Find a Victoria Stilwell Positively Dog Trainer: positively.com/trainers
I need Victoria Stilwell and Cesar Millan having this conversation together
@@thaddeusc44 Honestly, I use techniques from both Victoria and Cesar. I've never hit my dog or anything like that, but I do believe that a sharp noise coupled with a light tap on the back is extremely effective when my dog is focused on something he shouldn't be, because he's not particularly food motivated. Which is something I picked up from Cesar. In saying that, he's super sensitive so yelling or being aggressive towards him is a terrible idea so there is alot of positive reinforcement.
I think the best advice I could give would be to take the parts/methods from both sides that seem most suited to your dog and work with the dog until they get it. Even if it means you spend 45 minutes walking your reactive dog to the letterbox and back every day for a week. The more they trust you'll protect them, the better they'll get at it.
@@thaddeusc44 But positive reinforcement IS balanced. It's not all treats and good boy. There's correction, the difference is the correction is done by reconditioning the dog and using methods of association, not by punishing it. A corrective positive association might be, you don't get any play or attention if you bark. That's a form of correction. Positive training is about being a leader your dog can trust, but not being a bully, it's balanced.
I would suggest Patricia McConnell's book, she's a specialist in very aggressive dogs and uses positive reinforcement methods successfully.
Victoria all the way . :)
@@CovaCata Balanced training is using all 4 quadrants. Positive Reinforcement, Positive Punishment, Negative Reinforcement and Negative Punishment. PP, FF and R+ trainers rarely, if ever, use Positive Punishment.
Balanced trainers don't use all 4 quadrants the same amount. They don't use them all equally. They don't think, "Oh, I've hit my 25% limit for +R, time to use +P." They are just open to using +P when the dog needs it.
+P is like using an ecollar or prong collar. They add something as a punishment. When taught properly, dogs understand this and learn from it. The tools are not made to harm a dog, mentally or physically.
I like both, but I like caesars way a bit more, he teaches the people how to be calm and be aware of their energy which as humans we dont usually do. Lol
I am shocked and dismayed by all the negative comments I am seeing to this video. These two ladies are my heroes and are two of the most knowledgeable dog trainers in the world. They never promoted this video as a "debate" but intended it to be an impassioned and informative advocacy of positive training methods, especially in the case of aggressive ("reactive") dogs. The science supports absolutely everything they are saying -- there is no valid, scientifically based justification for the use of force with an aggressive animal. Zoos, marine and other animal habitats across the board and around the world are utilizing positive training methods on a daily basis to shape behaviors for routine health care, versus restraint or even sedating the animals as was done in the past. I am a certified trainer specializing in problem behavior and I know first hand from 30 years of experience that when confronted with an "aggressive" dog the last thing you do is throw gas onto that fire. I immediately use my sotto voce, my body posture, and yes, my high value food rewards, to calm that pup down, and then I continue working to communicate to that animal that 1) he is safe and 2) calm behavior will be rewarded. In thirty years I have been bitten one time -- ONE TIME -- through my own rookie mistake of turning my back on an animal I was still assessing (had never met or worked with the animal before). How many "balanced" or compulsion/dominance theory trainers can say that? And in every single case of "aggression" (the correct terminology being reactivity) I have worked with there has been measurable improvement in the dog's anxiety level with ONLY positive behavior modification used (desensitization, counter-conditioning, etc.). Yes, we +R trainers are disgusted by CM's outdated methodology. And I agree, this man poses a danger to the viewing public who are not equipped to use his methods safely. Rather than argue in his defense, I would like to see the science that backs his methods. It doesn't exist.
+Susan Howard I have eyes, i see dogs interacting with each other, how they behave, that's all the evidence I need.
BDW feral dogs don't give each other treats. Just saying.
It feels like she's adressing Cesar Milan here without saying it out loud
I don't think she wants a law suit. Her point is spot on though. Cesar in insane
@@pauline1072 Insane, his methods are perfect. He has been able to train nearly every dog.
People seem to imagine he is some abusive maniac, but he simply isnt.
The way he trains dogs seems perfectly fine. The dogs are calm and happy the whole time.
People make it seem like he goes in and tortures animals and beats them to death. He doesnt ever hit the dogs or anything.
Just lets them know who is in charge, once they understand they are FAR easier to train.
MrSirFluffy - Except for the fact that the basis for Cesar's methods, which is pack/dominance theory, has been proven wrong. Dominance theory initially came from the analysis of social structure in captive, non-familial groups of wolves. This does not reflect the social hierarchy in wild wolf packs, and the initial research for this theory is 80-90 years old, conducted by Rudolph Schenkel in the 30s and 40s. This research was expanded on by wolf expert L. David Mech in the 70s (this is where we get words like 'alpha' and 'omega' from), but even he has since denounced these theories as being false.
Additionally, another issue with Cesar's approach is that, under the assumption that pack theory is true, there is still no good argument that it would apply to dogs. Dogs, despite their ancestral heritage, are *not* wolves. They do not work the same, socially or physiologically. Furthermore, "dominance" is not a personality trait- which Cesar treats it as- it is instead a word that describes the relationships between individuals. A lone dog cannot be "dominant", as such a trait requires a reference point, another being, for the dog to dominate.
Finally, and more anecdotally, Cesar has been bitten *multiple* times on his show. This is because his methods require intimidation and getting physically involved with dogs. This scares more reactive dogs and causes them to lash out. On the other hand, to my knowledge, Victoria has never been bitten on her show, as her methods require respecting the boundaries of reactive dogs and working with them, as opposed to forcing them to "submit" to you.
Just because something may *work* does not mean that those actions are ethical or backed up by behavioural science.
@@anatomicalvenus All I know is Cesars training WORKS, and his pets are always happy. Completely ethical to me.
In fact the MAIN focus of his training is creating a calm and loving environment for the dogs.
@@anatomicalvenus disproving the pack dominance theory is basically saying whatever wolf packs have been doing since the begining is wrong.
I found her videos when I got my 2 sweet Labrador’s my male is 130 pounds of pure muscle and very outgoing and protective and my female is 68 pounds and shy/ anxious and her training is amazing!! I’ve used it with my fur babes and shared it with my sister with amazing fast results
I hired a trainer that used aversive methods with my 80lb male Swiss shepherd dog and he bit him. He made his reactivity towards other dogs worse. Now I'm learning to train my pooch by myself using positive reinforcement and it's working wonders. He's def not an easy dog. He's strong and I'm a small woman and I can deal with him much better than a man twice my size using choke collars and dominance training
This isn't a debate since both ladies are on the same page about this "issue". And it doesn't seem fair to talk about this without inviting someone with a different perspective in the conversation, especially since it's such a touchy topic (see comments below). I guess the training method should depend mostly on the dog, just like any education (think of your kids): some will respond to positive training, some need a tougher approach, and it can shift back and forth, which is the very nature of a 'process'. The trick might just require to be flexible and ever attentive to the dog's response and behavior
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This is my thought exactly! There's many dogs that Cesar saved over the years with issues I didn't see Victoria tackling on her show. She can hate on him if she chooses, but those dogs stayed with their owners and lived better lives because of him.
@@scarlett2xwhat issues are you reffering to?
A topic like this has been so generalized through the media, it's so hard to find information that's accurate. Just because a show like "The Dog Whisperer" is a successful tv show, doesn't make it safe or scientifically accurate. People who support and understand the principles of learning and animal behavior understand the harmful effects that punitive training can do. They aren't attacking Ceaser Millan, they're attacking the flawed methods used. Standing back and staying silent to this is equivalent to supporting these tactics. They MUST speak up and educate people between what makes good for the television screen and what is actually accurate. Again, the ends don't justify the means. Why use force when it's been proven that you don't have to?
I agree with you both on Positive training!! Always have!
The more positive time spent with just being with your dog and TRAINING properly and positive you will have a stronger bond with your dog. Today,in everything, people just want things INSTANTLY!!! So most people will go Cesars way instead of taking the time to train yourself to train your dog. I wish some people would be put through the same thing they put their dogs through. Like wearing a pinch collar. It’s a lot of fun to have that human/well, kindly trained relationship and extremely impressive to other people. It always feels good to be proud of a truly, amazing, happy dog!!!! Does anyone remember how Cesars 1st show ended because of the ABUSE he submitted the poor dogs through? Cesar himself would probably agree he was totally too aggressive with his ways. Go Victory! I‘be been using positive techniques for over 35 years when I kindly told them to wait, all 5 of them ,owned at 1 time different ages they stayed until I came to release them. A Positively trained dog is the best dog and the easiest to train without stress just fun and extremely fun and amazing to watch. Spend time watching your dog you will know what he/she wants or needs, you learn a lot just by watching dogs.
"When a dog growls at me I apologize." LMAO, I spat out my water when she said that. Really?
yeah I just started cracking up!!!
they are just jeaulous on cesar milan cause he has more people that follow him and he is much better trainer
lol thanks for growling dog
+Plato86 You guys are rotten dumb.
Stefano Fava So you apologize to your dog too when he/she acts up? Are you the owner of does the dog own you?
I'm so happy that I've found you!I totally agree with your methods and opinions.Thank you x
Can I safely say I love Victoria Stilwell's method???? Lol, It's true, I am just waiting for a branch of her training class (Positively) because I would LOVE to work there!!! That is my dream, anything less (abusive aka cesar milian) is just that, abuse...
You are following a complete amatuer... but ok...
Birds of a feather flock together.
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A dog that likes you is always less dangerous than a dog that fears you
Lol no it's not. Also big difference between respect and fear
~cough~ cesar Millan ~cough~
Positive only training does not work on all dogs! What happens if you recall a dog with a very high prey drive is coming back and a deer or rabbit runs out? That dog is going to chase it and there is nothing you can do with your Positive only training to stop that.
OMG right! I Always have this question for people.
I'm no expert but couldn't you expose the prey driven animal to stimuli (rabbit, deer etc) in a controlled environment and redirect his attention using reward/treats?
@@matthewepperson421 it could for some dogs but you also have to think that other dogs may find more reward in chasing said rabbit or deer. Negative reinforcement with an e collar or pinch collar will teach the dog the some actions have negative consequences. Kinda like disciplining your child. You don't discipline a dog or child out of anger, you do it to teach them wrong from right to help them later on in life.
I was just talking about this earlier - SO MANY people think that certain dogs need a "firm hand" - when in my opinion, it's the owner that needs to be taught better. It's sad and disturbing that people actually think that you have to dominate or intimidate their animals. Oh, I HOPE people LEARN from this video!! I WILL SHARE THIS EVERYWHERE!!!
Victoria and this lady have a point. I don't believe that Victoria referred to cesar milan specifically. I believe she was referring to all trainers who use confrontational and dominate training. Those type of trainers which are good in their profession, say like cesar millan, know how far to take the dominance training and will not abuse the dog into submission. Unfortunatley the real issue here is that dominance training is not well understood by people. People see one episode and believe this is the way to handle all situation with their dog. I respect cesar and his method works because he knows where the boundries are. Having said this, i must admit that the type of cesar's training was not working with my anxious dog. Mostly because i did not understand how to use his tehnique properly. Instead i used victoria's method because i understood her tehnique better...and results were incredible. So i truly believe that you need to understand your dog's behaviour to train them. And the intent for all dog owners should not be "how to train my dog to listen to me"...no...the intent should be "how can i train my dog to help him be the best version of himself that he can be...how can i help my dog to cope, how can i help my dog to stay calm, be happy". This should be the intent of your training IMHO.
Ps: from cesar i learned how to be calm so that i can project that energy to my dog to be calm and cope with stresfull situations.
Thank you!
The problem is that people use corrections in the wrong way. They do a correction and it doesn't work then they amp up the physical force thinking it will change the dogs behavior but all it does is reinforces the dogs aggression. Corrections are a healthy part of training a dog just as positive reinforcement is also a part of training. Should not be part of the extreme at either end.
her first dog we approached it in a completely different way and she is the most incredible dog I've ever met!!! She listens beautifully (and it is because she WANTS to for US) and yet isn't a robot! She is so freaking vibrant and full of personality. More than anything else punitive techniques rob dogs of their individual personalities. I'll never know on this side of heaven what my boy is truly like but we do know what my sister's dog's personality is and it's awesome. Not sacrificing personal
Don't confuse being assertive with being "tough" and "dominant".
YES YES YES!!! This video needs to be seen by EVERY dog owner!
I would like to see a before and after of positive training with aggressive dogs. you can see alot of video's about positive training but i couldnt find one with more aggressive ones.
Bloody brilliant. Excellent summary of all the issues
Victori Stilwell is such a good trainer
One problem with positive only training is that its unreliable. In a situation where there are things the dog would find more stimulating/desirable than the treats (aka another agg. dog, drunk people, etc.), the dog suddenly has no desire nor reason to listen to your commands, there being no consequence for the dog going for what it desires more than the treat. This could be a situation where your dog disobeying you could put your dog, animals, or other people at risk. The best dog training method is one that is balanced.
I find that u should use positive training to just teach your dog to do the command. buttttt never use only that your dog must have a consequence for doing something wrong.
for ex I use an ecoller when she does what she was taught to do write she gets prize from me and plays not a treat so she is motivated to work for me and not food and when she does not listen or dose something wrong she gets a consequence as she should just like in the wild the wolf will give a consequence that could harm the pack or when they get out of ling.
your positive only dog will not be reliable when you are out in the real world.
you must have a reliability with your dog not just smile and give food for everything.
if your dog is off-leash u must have a way to get your dog back 100000%bof the time not just a liver teat your dog will do whats it wants if your dog sees a bunny it will go after the bunny not stay with you and your liver treat
This is an eye-opener for me with handling my newly-adopted Yorkie. She is very fearful and trying to show her I'm the boss hasn't been working well. I'm going to try positive reinforcement this time. Thanks Victoria
They were saying that doing the alfa rolls actually isn't what dogs do to communicate to each other to be "dominant." You will see this in his show as well: no dog physically rolls another dog on their side or back. The woman in the blue actually said that she's only seen fearful dogs do this.
A great discussion here. As a behaviourist with a PhD in Animal Behaviour and Welfare, videos like this give me hope that there are other trainers out there doing things properly. By properly, I mean what the research dictates. A study was carried out at the University of Pennsylvania and publised in The Journal of Applied Animal Behaviour (2009) which illustrated that using confrontational methods to train dogs increased aggression. Stop bullying, and TRAIN.
I agree!
Well said!
I'm a dog trainer in training and I strongly agree with Victoria. Posative reEnformemt and disaplining wisely is the way to go when training a dog. I hope to be a profeshinal trainer like victoria and some day join her team.
Positive reinforcement only works for positive behaviour. It doesn't signfy that negative behaviour is not acceptable. For stubborn, disobedient dogs such as mine, I found that negative reinforcement worked very effectively alongside positive reinforcement. The idea is to be adaptive and find a balance between both. However the positive reinforcement should be the primary focus.
Do you know that there are actually four quadrants of operant conditioning? Positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment, and negative punishment. I use +R and -P. Which ones do you use?
Courtney, To be honest I wasn't aware of all the other different types however Im thankful that you've informed me as I will try and learn about them. But before I do a search on and read the types you listed, I decided I would respond to your question on what I have been doing so far so I can establish whether I've been going about it the wrong way or what I can improve on.
I have around three different ways to express disapproval depending on the circumstance. I always begin with the least stern way first and if he ignores that I then resort to a more harsher action. If he's engaging in bad behaviour that requires urgent action I try to interrupt it using a stern vocal sound or saying "NO! " If he decides to ignore and continue I would then give him a light tap on the backside which always seems to work. However, during training sessions I would opt for more milder gestures such as withholding praise or treat if he refuses to follow a command. And the finall method I use is, putting him in time out. Thats something I would do if he's particularly in a bad mood or not being cooperative. For example if hes chilling on my bed when I decide to get in to sleep and he decides to snap or growl at me for asking him to move , I would then grab him and put him in an enclosed space like a playpen or bathroom. A minute or two in there makes him ready and eager to be a lot more co-operative. Maybe my methods are wrong but the results I've obtained have been effective without compromising a loving relationship. I'd like to hear your advice and personal experience with the methods you listed.
Actually, differential reinforcement of alternate behaviors works very well to lead the undesired behavior to extinction. As does putting certain things under stimulus control. And Premack is golden. Classical conditioning as well.
Food and toys are not the end all, be all of positive reinforcement.
to end our walk. it took him 20-30 minutes to come back to the present, to realize where he was and that he was SAFE, that no one was going to hit, yell at, choke him (choke collar), etc. even then he slunk to me looking side to side and when he reached me he collapsed into my lap - all 65 lbs of him - in a ball and cried for about 15 min. when they began to subside I got up and we took a very slow walk with him keeping one of my hands on him the ENTIRE time. They never "abused" him for the
The thing is Cesar uses positive reinforcement too. He actually evaluates the behavior of the dog and determines the dog's issues. By doing this, he uses whatever method that fits. Cesar does not stick to just one way of doing it.
Unlike these idiots only using positive reinforcement. Grrrrrrrr! U want a cookie? Bite! This dog is too aggressive, you have to put it down. That is what positive reinforcement trainers do.
+Simeon Ibarra Milan's TV show is just that- a show. He gets reactions from dogs to
make them look mean for TV instead of respecting their thresholds and
teaching the dog to actually cope with the human or dog that's making it
fear aggressive. You want your dog to growl and bark because when your
dog is vocal like that, it's telling you "Hey, I'm out of my comfort
zone, can I get out of this situation?" What Ceaser does is say "No,
you're going to sit here and not tell me you're uncomfortable." That
makes a dangerous dog who will simply attack with no warning. Run away
from people like Ceaser. Run.
+Afish040 You have not been to a proper trainer then. The idea is that you do not let the dog escalate. You reward it BEFORE it becomes aggressive, this way it learns, "hey, if I stay calm, good things will happen." Instead people like ceaser make the dog react on purpose and then show the dogs "hey, if I get upset, there's a good reason! Something bad is about to happen! I *should* be afraid!" And the behavior gets worse in the long term.
Otherwise Victoria has suggested to others to use a doggy gate at the door to keep him out of the room and off of the bed, but still able to be close by and see you. And make that area outside of your room comfortable (again with some soft blankets or a dog bed)
ok will do that and i have a good feeling that this will help my dog a lot.Thank you very much for your replys,,,and remember our dogs make us better persons!
Crazy conversation!
Ok now what about a video on Positive Training vs Balanced Training?
You kind of make it look like corrections are used for self-satisfaction and self-glorifying purposes only, which most likely explains why you use only positive methods in the first place (serving yourself first). You also seem to confuse bad training methods versus bad trainers.
Positive reinforcement is great! It doesn't mean it has to be only that.
I agree, I love Victoria and her training methods. I do have to say that there are other types of training. Stubborn dogs whom have used the positive reinforcement techniques and the dog does not learn. It comes to my being a dog owner, my dogs are my kids so as a parent if your child gets fresh with you or raises a hand to you as a parent do you apologize? I know I wouldn't, I am not an advocate of shock collars but I do believe that balance training is a great way to train our dogs. No disrespect to Victoria, but again I agree with you positive reinforcement is not the only way to train and by saying that I am not an advocate of abuse. I feel that a balance of soft and heavy handed training only when necessary is another great way in which to take care of your dog.
Positive reinforcement doesnt mean without consequences. It means without harmful consequences
Like if a dog is pulling, being led in the opposite direction they want to go. or if a dog is playing too rough the play stops until they play calmly
And rewarding the behavior that is being asked or looked for
As someone who grew up being mentally abused by a parent I would never even think about using punitive training methods with a dog or any other animal, and of course not with a child either, because I know how I turned out, with PTSD, social anxiety, and shit like that, and still, in my 30s, I'm afraid of talking to my parent without anyone else with me.
Hey Victoria! Thanks for this video! I hope you could do a video on how to bathe a puppy for the first time. Hoping to watch it soon! Thanks!
These women are amazing
I'd agree that using force alone only damages human/dog relationships but using small corrections is necessary some times, some sort of small physical touch only to get their attention away from whatever they were focused on. I really don't know how effective positive reinforcement ALONE is on extremely aggressive dogs, I don't see how giving the dogs treats will get rid of it's aggression. I've seen her use a few other methods which are good but I just hate the idea of using treats so much.
how do I become a positive trainer..... I'm almost in tears watching this video, I want to help.
You may not agree with Cesar Milan's methods but they are far from cruel. He cares deeply for dogs and has helped an incredible number of dogs and their owners.
Thank you for such a great comment! Let us know if there's anything you'd like to see on the channel -- we love the feedback
eHowPets More from Victoria! She is amazing.
I can't believe there are so many users in the comments not agreeing with this video.... Like why wouldn't you want your dog to be guided rather than told. This isn't to say you can't tell your dog what not to do through being guided, you can, it's just in a way that allows the dog to think for themselves and know that in certain situations different behaviors are accepted.
"When a dog growls i say sorry" so do i - because I've made the dog feel insecure and uncomfortable and that means you have to take a step back and approach the situation differently in a way that lets the dog understand its okay.
People really need to get their head out of this mindset you must control your dog through TELLING them what to and start TEACHING them what to do.
I have much more of a problem that she is completely misleading people about only using positive reinforcement. If you know anything about operant conditioning, she uses negative punishment with every dog she trains, and positive punishment with a lot of them. It's an outright lie, and anyone who spouts this garbage has no integrity and just wants to stroke their who and make money off of people who don't know any better.
Wat do u guys think of ceaser millan
AGREED positive training should be able to be used on ALL dogs.
I definitely agree with Positive training. After reading books, watching videos and dvds I think this should be used as the only metod to train a dog. Positive training has changed the relationship between my family and our pets.
ity is a truly remarkable thing. Even more remarkable is to be around a dog who is not afraid of being hit, kicked, scruffed, rolled or any other thing you can think of doing to a dog. She is so trusting and reasonable and it's all thanks to Positive Reinforcement training. AND if she does say "no" to doing something upon my asking her to there is ALWAYS a reason for it - a knick on her face, something in her eye, her kennel blankets need attention, she can see a physical barrier we can't. She
I can trust youtube to answer all of my life? questions. How lovely. Thank you dude.
Dr. Sophia Yin has some amazing positive training on aggressive dog videos.
Is the air under Cesar's shadow too cool for you, Victoria?
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SHE FREAKING THANK THE DOG FOR GROWLING AT HER!
Victoria, I have enjoyed your videos and philosophy for a long time. I routinely rescue dogs from shelters and re home them. I now have a 3-4 year old neutered male GSD who has bitten about 5 people. In all instances, it has involved either food aggression or fear aggression based on the activities of the person. He is a "red zone" dog. I have overcome one of his bite response triggers. He used to try to bite when people would touch his back or butt. I have scratched his back and rubbed his butt for the last 8 months, often sweetening the experiences with a treat. So I know he can learn and change. He even likes to be brushed. Still has the other aggression though (he sees a postal worker and goes nuts). I theorize that the mailman sprayed him with pepper spray or did something else and that flashes back every time a person in that uniform shows up. Anyway, I wondered if you have thoughts about this. I need to get him rehabbed so that he may be able to be re-homed sometime soon.
No punitive punishment for dogs, lets punitively punish people. If the belief is that Positive training works so well, then why not use it across the board and use it to change the behavior on the people you disagree with? But the same people that advocate no punishment for dogs, regardless of their actions, want to punitively and aggressively go after people because they don't agree.
Very nice comment. I completely agree.
it's pretty obvious who the same people are, the same people that are in this video
Victoria specifically said that she advocated for people to be jailed
i highly recommend a book called "dont shoot the dog" where it discusses how using positive reinforcement for everything (dog, people, lions, dolphins, etc) is insanely beneficial. studies show if we actually tried treating drug addicts instead of incarcerating them, there chances of a repeat offense goes.down exponentially (the book has the study and goes into it in more detail)
the amount of interviews/shows/books iv watched/read were Cesar has explained that his goals is to gain trust, respect, loyalty but they don't even take the time to find out what he does they just no his a "pack leader" and apparently that's "cruel" iv never seen him to be cruel, all his actions imitate those of a puppy's mother. his training methods are straight from mother nature.
Jordan H so dumb. yeah his methods are "straight from mother nature" as in he teaches dogs by behaving like a bullying dog with behavioural problems. really says a lot about the methods and ppl you are defending when the ppl doing the defending are ignorant morons like you.
shaolintiger88 wow dude. Chill... calm. Now... shht!
I'm missing the part in the video where they actually teach the red zone aggressive dog. They forgot to put the dog in the video.
then watch It's Me or the Dog
That's kind of a big topic to tackle in a 20 minute video.
Thank you for your answer but Certified in what what and when ?
Could you also please tell me why she says on t.v you must be top of the pack or very similar words and this video says humans cannot be ranked with dogs as a pack member.
Have you consulted with your vet? It's always a good place to start. There might be something happening health-wise that is making him act out. They will also be able to offer possible solutions or medication if it is anxiety related. Don't give up on him! Any issue can definitely be resolved.
As far as what Victoria is saying here, I get it. The other lady probably means well. Disturbing how many people commenting are pro-animal intimidation. Positive reinforcement does work. Empathy and patience are very important while training, as well. Confident, happy dogs do not attack or have anxiety issues. For the love of God, don't adopt a dog to stroke your own ego and then get pissed and bully them if they aren't a perfect arm accessory. Some of the comments here are so flipping, disturbingly , pro cruelty. Personally, I think my dogs are a hell if a lot smarter than a 2 year old. They don't get aggressive because I don't put them in dangerous circumstances. If I see a dog that is looking to pick on another dog, I get my dogs out of there. Know your dog. Respect your dog. No animal human or not is perfect. So don't expect your dog to be a robot. And no animal other than humans have ulterior motives. Don't be a dick. That included being a dick to your dog. That crap is so outdated. And if you people into prong collars and other cruel tools hate your dogs so much then give them to someone that actually cares about animals. Problem solved. There, now you don't have pretend to be a good person and since you won't have an animal to bully around it won't be so obvious to good people how crappy you really are. Breaking your dog's spirit is nothing to be proud of.
There’s a difference between animal abuse and Dominance Training . Animals are not humans since they are instinctual unlike us humans, intuitive. We get to decide what they do because we are the leader. This comes from their genetics, a requirement for a pack leader. If you’re changing what you do Because your dog is going to react some way, you’re giving them the power. The lady in the blue doesn’t talk about scientific evidence to support the claim.
Plus， spoiling and being positive are two different things.
I love every word that was said. 💕🐕💕🐕💕🐕💕🐕💕
“I think anything other than positive is abuse”….I’m glad you’re so open minded. How about balanced training?
I can understand where people are coming from with not wanting to correct their dogs. That being said, people often forget that dogs, as social pack animals, correct each other in nature all the time. Therefore, I would go as far as to say that not incorporating corrections when necessary in dog training is unnatural.
@@willtroman9286 spot on
And to bring it all back to where I started due to punitive techniques which included poor socialization (as it most often does) he was HIGHLY fear-aggressive towards children. I could never trust him around children and as the human I had to hyper-vigilant to keep everyone (including him) safe. It was only through Positive Reinforcement techniques that he learned I could be trusted to protect him and through that growth in trust he began to willingly sitting behind me (keeping me between him
Victoria, I am with you! I believe that dogs need positive reinforcement. It is my dream to open an animal shelter and train dogs!!!!!!
Thank you! Finally someone who pointed that out. Throughout the entire thing I got the sense that they were scatting over their definitions in a way that made anything other than their method complete abuse which is a pile of crap. As you said, there is a difference between assertiveness and aggression, terms which were just grouped as the same thing. I wish people would be more open minded about ALL types of training. I like Cesar's method for the fundamentals and some of Victoria's for tricks.
It's weird that purely positive people say "Positive Training is the only training" and balanced trainers say positive and negative is the way to go. Yin and yang, good and bad, this world that we live in has balance, everything can't be positive, we all know this.
Hello all,Victoira if u could help me with that or anyone else.I got a 9month old Jack R.T. He gets nervous when he is about to sleep or when he wakes up.The problem comes up when i tell him to get off me and my gfs bed.He growls and i try to lure him (with treats) of there but he keeps jumping on it.We are scared of him when he acts like that.The other day he was on the couch by my sister.He was sleepy and my sis was just talking to him when he suddenly attacked and bit her hand.Im so sad.
Jennifer Arnold trains dogs to help people, veterinarians like Ian Dunbar use positive reinforcement, Cesar Millan learned all he knows from his father and grandfather... I know whose advice I am going to follow...
thx a lot i will see all of them soon
but by providing those episodes (not necessary new seasons) it will get viral and also very great for analysis dogs and also Victoria
Victoria is taking the same position that her British Small Animal Veterinary Association, British Veterinary Association, most other British organizations have taken. It is also the general view of European Veterinary, Behavior and Ethologie organisations.
recently i got introduced to + training by Victoria Stilwe through its me not dog tv-show, and i tried it with my dogs which get nervous when they see other dogs, but there is a problem i wana learn more but there is no way i can download or watch free her tv-show,on the other hand u can watch and dl all seasons of dog whisperer, plz make a solution for it to teach more ppl about + dog training,
thanks a lot
can i be directed to the video with an uncooperative dog where she says "good dog"
Optimus Prime yes! Search It’s Me Or The Dog, click the videos tab and scroll down and read the titles. There are so many great examples of her doing this.
the only time I use anything punitive is if my pup is for any reason putting herself in danger, but I never use it to teach
As a dog trainer i agree with these two 110%. I would never even attempt the aggession training.
I kept expecting one of them to bring up Cesar! I was confused because they never definitively defined what they considered punitive/dominant training. Using excessive force and intimidation? I completely agree that 'physical' force shouldn't be solely used to 'train' a dog, although I don't see how using techniques that dogs use on EACH OTHER to control unwanted behaviour is a bad thing but ONLY if done properly. I think that using 'positive reinforcement' is best for just obedience training.
There is a positive link between animal abuse and domestic violence that's why people discuss it. Dogs are animals and people are animals. Most educated non-human animal trainers and behaviorists are versed in behavior and welfare outcomes for both species, the close link between human animal and non-human animal health and well being, and how each can help us understand and gain insight into the other experiences.
I actually had a veterinarian in my area (I brought my two dogs there to get their yearly eval) and one of my dogs was shaking and yelping everytime he was touched and the Vet grabbed MY dog roughly by the scruff and I said "Woah Woah, what are you doing?" and you know what the Vet said to me? "You have to show them whose boss because he is just being a brat and I can tell you spoil him". I took one look at him and said "My dogs are NEVER babied and the reason he is yelping is out of fear"
Positive is just basically showing them affection
There's more to in than that but yes it does involve this.
I think we need to be clear on what is meant by punitive methods because dogs do need dicipline. Negative actions have negative consequences, just don’t frighten or hurt your dog because that does not help. And the dog needs to be taught with positive reinforcement an appropriate and acceptable alternative to their negative behavior.
being calm assertive (which cesar preaches) has done wonders with my dogs. and they didnt talk about how to train a dog that is misbehaving or has behaviour issues. i dont think giving them treats would do any good for them. no i am not siding with anyone or saying taht i use any type of abusive methods with my dogs. I jsut want to know how she would approach and change a "red zone" dog?
Btw thank you so very much for replying so fast.I forgot to mention that according to our vet our J.R.T. is definetaly perfect health wise..He is kind of old thinking about dogs and some advises he gives like punishing with a newspaper and loud voice i dont really like.I have to find a way to make my dog listen to me when i ask him to get off my bed.I bought a new bed for him yesterday to make his more fun...im trying just need some help about daily training on this issue.Please reply again!
I've always been a big fan of Cesar Milan and recently from Victoria Stillwell as I'm trying to learn how to become a dog behaviorist. And I was thinking of how to combine different knowledge and techniques.
Sadly I recently discovered the hostile approach from the 'pro- positive trainers' against what's called 'punitive training' (apparently they mean Cesar Milan..? according to the comments..?) . Now, I can imagine that people don't understand what Cesar means by using words like "dominant" and thereby misinterpreted his teaching how to create a healthy and nice environment between you(r family) and your dog.
I think Cesar is on a higher spiritual level and therefor is more sensitive for natural energy from animals. What he is asking his students (t.v. watchers) is to understand this and be able to do it as well. Now.. that might just be a bridge to far for the maturity of people from Western civilization
to be able to achieve, (through television) sadly. For people who are more conscious about "living in the now" it's easier to understand and practice .
As for Victoria, she is an amazing people manager! With her female empathy she is very good to asses the situation in a family of dog owners, and her strong, fierce and clear approach towards the owners is very helpfull.
That being said: Victoria demonstrates often that a dog reacts quick to her because they "respect" her.
This is the first thing Cesar try's to teach owners: Trust-respect-love. Specifically in that order. So as a dog owner, wouldn't it be best to practice these first two essentials?! And trust doesn't have to mean dominance (and all the bad actions people perform that can come with it as being misunderstood by bullying) but the opposite, by making the dog feel safe by providing leadership.
And providing leadership actually also means love by physical and mental stimulation, well.. how better to accomplish this than by Positive Training?! :)
In an ideal world I would love to see dog owners practice from both worlds and understanding how to achieve a balanced, happy and well behaved (and trained ) dog. Sadly, as many things in the human world, when people disagree because they don't take the time and energy to really understand each others point of view, they turn against each other. So now we don't create the opportunity to learn from each other.
Dear #VictoriaStillwell and #CesarMilan. Please, PLEASE go and talk to each other and learn from each other and use your wisdom and strength to make a statement about how we can teach dog owners to be the best they can be for their dogs and their environment. (and while you're at it: make a show during your cooperation to put on TH-cam ;)
I love you guys! xx
Cesar isn't a certified dog trainer, so he shouldn't give advice not safe to try at home (as it says on his episodes). And you don't build trust in your damaged dog from bullying them
@@pauline1072 dog training isn’t something you need certs in…experience is better and Cesar has loads of it!
*And why are people going on about Cesar? They didn't event mention his name! Just because he doesn't use positive reinforcement it doesn't mean they were aiming it at him alone...:-/
So when do we get a vid of either of these two ladies working with a "red zone" dog.
if you look at It's Me or the Dog, you can see some "red zone" dog. The thing is, "red zone" is a made up term, without any real standard. Victoria works with quite aggressive dogs as well.
i dont get it, why the avatar with im assuming you and millan?
Love this...the way they agree with each other in everything and positively reinforce one another is really touching...we learn so much more when there is only *one* point of view arrogantly repeated over and over and over again! It is like we don't even have to think at all: want to be on the good side or the *evil* one?! Victoria is a "natural leader"...cofffff....cofffffff....but does anyone knows if she used treats on Jennifer to achieve this amazing monologue....sorry...interview?! Get serious VS....
HAhahaha ;) classic.
Well said.
👍👍👍👍
Ignore the problem and reward the exceptions gives you a bratty dog that sits. Granted, negative punishment only works on certain behaviors with certain dogs. But go ahead, wave a cookie in a red zone dogs face until it likes you. I like to call a good trainer a shepherd with just simply telling the dog yes or no. A well balanced form of training fits for the dog is what works. I've spent far to much time with bratty dogs that don't know what no means and fearful dogs that crouch when you say good.
first time until almost a year after we got him as he couldn't calm down enough on walks for me to feel it was fair to expect him to be by me. The first and ONLY time I ever asked him to "heel" I said it calmly while he was by me as I walked forward. It felt like my arm got ripped out of the socket, I turned around and he was flat on his belly on the concrete stress-drooling (the foamy stuff) with his eyes glazed over. I went to the end of his leash away from our house because that was not going
There are tons of tips on eHow Pets - called "Teacher's Pet" that teach positive reinforcement training. And they're free. You should check those out. :)
Victoria had actually trained alot - I dont know if the videos are on youtube, but I have seen in the tv...
I think a big part of the problem is that those who are comfortable using the harsh methods were raised with those methods and haven't learned other tools (perhaps from dysfunctional environments?) Using any other methods shows weakness. This is based on their own fear. That's the way they live their lives. This is called 'lack of emotional intelligence'.
who the fuck would dislike this video?
I Mean I like Victoria
Just because I do not use a treat for every behavior DOES NOT mean I harm my dog. My pack is extremely well-balanced with no harsh punishments needed. What I find hard to swallow is that positive-behavior techniques are not going to work on a very aggressive dog.
I love these two ladies.
"I had great results with a can of squirt cheese" hahahaha
Jennifer Arnold is totally taking about Caesar Millan
They both are talking HORRIBLY about Caesar Million... I LOVE IT
my vet says its all about discipline and that we have too much spoilled him and things like that.i dont really like what he is saying and he mentioned nothing about medication.Yesterday i let him sleep on my bed and everything was fine.His anxiety is probably because he thinks some1 will interupt his sleep and make him get off bed/couch etc.So my issue i guess is how to i make him get off my bed when i tell him to.Suggest me possible solutions please.Ofc i will never give up on him,i love him!
I find that when 'we' positive trainers explain things, it doesn't get the message through to people who have never used +R. People are visual and need proof that +R training works! The more videos you can show before and after, the more people will be tuned in. I hope Victoria does more before, during and after videos with hard cases. There are videos on TH-cam that show this but they just don't have the advertising. Good video though! I would've loved to be there and chat too! lol