Cessationists are the opposite extreme of Paula White?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2024
- Do men like Johnn MacArthur & Justin Peters hold to an extreme position concerning the Spiritual gifts? Mike Winger claims that cessationism is the opposite extreme of hyper charismatics like Paula White. #smh
If hyper-charismatics like Paula White represent one extreme that claims all the gifts are in operation, logically the opposite extreme would be hyper-cessationism that says all of the gifts have ceased. MacArthur & Peters represent the majority of cessationists who say only some of the gifts have ceased like tongues and the ability to work miracles. Winger has defended and worked with hyper-charismatics like Michael Brown and Bethel so he is far from unbiased. He has an axe to grind with Calvinists which is why he misrepresents the cessationist position. Remember it was our channel that broke the story of Winger and Ruslan trashing MacArthur while defending Bill Johnson and Bethel Church. smh
what's the point of god giving us the gifts which we can't use? No wonder our churches are dead. We preach about a Jesus who healed so many people and told us we would do greater things yet there are almost no miracles happening. Why would an atheist want to believe in a god whose followers display no supernatural abilities through his power?
@@thetraditionalist you are not Jesus or the apostles, we can't do what they could do. Get real. Stop listening to wacky charismatics. Todd White and his defender Mike Winger are wrong. WAKE UP!!!!!!
@@thetraditionalist You're not wrong, the reason we are not seeing the power of the holy spirit used correctly is ignorance or cowardice. There is a balance and folks just can't seem to find it. Somewhere between absolute stoicism and flopping on the floor like a fish is the will of God .
Ah, so you make the title "Cessationists" and now start talking about "hyper-cessationists".
You are a deceptive liar.
And on this issue, Mike Winger, as much as I love him for other things, is completely ignorant. Cessationism is not and never has been the extreme position. Nor is the continuationist position moderate.
@@doctrinalwatchdogactive6454 And I've just realised I might be misunderstanding you, but let's see.
I'm fine with being the polar opposite of Paula White.
No need for tongues. Bible is complete..
The Bible is strategy, manifestations of the spirit are tactics
Do not blaspheme the Holy Ghost we all need to be filled with The Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues find a Pentecostal Bible believing church turn away from cessationism now cessationists are blaspheming the Holy Ghost cessationism is heresy a doctrine of demons
Sir, with all due respect, if you want to truly help people for CHRIST JESUS (and not for yourself and growing your channel) I would ask that you stop taking clips to prove your point and not allow your followers to hear the complete statements that would immediately debunk your claim. I am praying so hard that the Lord give you clarity and humility to see the truth and to report on that. Admit when you have been deceitful (unknowingly or knowingly)for the sake of those would follow you for guidance. Do the whole work not just enough to declare something so that you can create a video. When you do that you invalidate God's purpose for a watchman. The Lord specifically says in Romans not to indulge in anything that sows discord among the brothers of Christ. Woe to those on the Day Of Judgement. I love that you have the intention of protecting and guiding but I've heard more than one accusation that is blatantly untrue. He is coming and He knows the truth of everything. I hope so much that your judgement day be a day of joy and something else. Amen
Agreed.
Winger is the opposite of a biblically qualified pastor.
Mike Winger really doesn't know God's Word nor does he ever pick a side. He is candy coated, watered down middle of the road teaching which benefits no one.
Yup, he thinks Todd White is saved and sincere. Hey did you hear about brother Lawson?
@doctrinalwatchdogactive6454 yes I made a huge post about it on my Facebook. Here's what I wrote
Steve Lawson who I highly respect and admire has been fired due to an inappropriate relationship with a woman.
I don't know how true this all is, but here's my point.
First we need to be in deep prayer for Him, his family and the church.
Second we must extend grace and not jump to condemnation.
And third we need to remember that we all face temptation and all of our hearts are wicked and sick and we desperately need the Lord every minute of every day.
Steve Lawson has been a massive blessing to me for years and I don't agree with sin, but I know there's more Grace in Christ than there is sin in us.
Whether these allegations are True or not, please don't turn this into a gossip fest as the world is watching us. We are all sinners in need of Jesus and we all fall short of His glory daily
Mike winger is completely correct here.
Charismatic faith healers and Paula White and her gibberish, its all fake WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!
@@doctrinalwatchdogactive6454 extreme charismatics doesn't disprove what he said
Like it or not you pick and choose cessationists are just as bad.
Mike did not paula preaching.
What Mike is getting worse. Who would prophecy it.
Mike will get worse..
What’s the text say? Do not forbid. “But did God really say that?”
@@austin5640 it does say that, real tongues should not be forbidden, Mike is defending the false abuse of the gift, the same abuse Paul was against in 1 Corinthians 14.
The true gift can be understood by the hearer as we read about it on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2.
@@doctrinalwatchdogactive6454 so it’s an unbiblical decision to be a cessationist then? If so, I don’t get what you’re calling out
@@austin5640 cessationism is Biblical and obviously true.
@@doctrinalwatchdogactive6454 "real tongues should not be forbidden" is what you said
tongues weren't mentioned by God as babbling, they should be speaking in foreign languages
Paula really messed up with the Moonies...the bible is fine with a speaking, but she shouldn't be the lead Pastor as Paula is. That's what those verses mean in context. Watch the movie about fundamentalist cessestionist Gwen Shamblyn. She went off the rails in a big way. Aquila and Priscillia Co-Pastor in the NT era.
Any language you dont know is babbling...
These hucksters, like Paula White, Sid Roth, and Kenneth Copeland, are truly speaking in babble. Sid Roth told his audience you have to practice at it and proceed to have his whole audience babbling amongst themselves.
The modern day Cessationism promoted by MacArthur and co should be described as Hyper-Cessationism because it's departure from the historic reformed position on these things.
How do you figure that? Hyper cessationism is the position that says none of the gifts are for today, there is a small minority that claims all the gifts have ceased, logically that is the opposite of saying they are all still operational. Let's use our brain folks and not allow Pentecostals to pull the wool over our eyes!
Innovation, that's not true.
@doctrinalwatchdogactive6454 that's true. Ottis Sellars taught Pastors and Evangalists ceased because the NT ones were inspired and Evangelists were miracle workers primarily like Philip. Putz John MacArthur out of a job.
@@doctrinalwatchdogactive6454 Because the Cessationism promoted by MacArthur and those in his circles is more extreme and hyper then what historic reformed people taught.
The Second Book of Discipline 1578 Chapter 2 - Policy of the Kirk Adopted by The Church of Scotland
6 Some of these ecclesiastical functions are ordinary, and some extraordinary or temporary. There are three extraordinary functions: the office of the apostle, of the evangelist, and of the prophet, which are not perpetual, and now have ceased in the kirk of God, except when he pleased extraordinarily for a time to stir some of them up again. There are four ordinary functions or offices in the kirk of God: the office of the pastor, minister or bishop; the doctor; the presbyter or elder; and the deacon.
So the historic reformed position of the Church of Scotland was that God has at times pleased to stir up some of the extraordinary offices like prophets etc.
George Gillespie member of the Westminster assembly.
I must say it, to the glory of God, there were in the church of Scotland, both in the time of our first reformation, and after the reformation, such extraordinary men as were more than ordinary pastors and teachers, even holy prophets receiving extraordinary revelations from God, and foretelling diverse strange and remarkable things, which did accordingly come to pass punctually, to the great admiration of all who knew the particulars. Such were Mr. Wishart the martyr, Mr. Knox the reformer, also Mr. John Welsh, Mr. John Davidson, Mr. Robert Bruce, Mr. Alexander Simpson, Mr. Fergusson, and others. It were too long to make a narrative here of all such particulars, and there are so many of them stupendous, that to give instance in some few, might seem to derogate from the rest, but if God give me opportunity, I shall think it worth the while to make a collection of these things (George Gillespie, Miscellany Questions , Vol. 2, Chapter 5, section 7, p. 30).
Historic Reformed theologian Gillespie considered John Knox, George Wishart etc to be holy prophets receiving extraordinary revelations from God.
Historic Reformed Puritan Presbyterian John Flavel teaching contrary to modern cessationism.
An Exposition of the Assembly's Shorter Catechism by John Flavel on Question 39.
Q. 9. But if a man have a voice, a vision, or a dream, seeming to hint the secret will of God, may he not obey it? A. Yes; if it be consonant to the revealed will of God in the word, otherwise not; Deut. 29:29. The secret things belong unto the Lord our God; but those things which are revealed, belong unto us, and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Historic Refomed theologian Peter Martyr Vermigli
“Therefore, a good and lawful attention to dreams is not be forbidden; the godly are permitted to pray that they may be instructed even in their dreams.” (Philosophical Works, 168)
John Calvin receiving a vision.
The Life of John Calvin by Theodore Beza page 77
It affords us satisfaction to mention, in this place, a circumstance that deserves to be stated. On the 19th of December, which was the Sabbath, the north wind having been unusually high for two days, Calvin (although confined to bed by the gout) said, in the hearing of a number of friends, '* I know not indeed what it means ; I thought I heard last night a very loud sound of drums used in war, and I could not divest myself of the opinion that it was a reality. I entreat you let us pray, for some event of very great moment is undoubtedly taking place." On this very day the battle at Dreux, distinguished for its great cruelty, was fought, the news of which reached Geneva a few days after.
@@ReformedWatchdog3
What is not true? Why can't I see my comment?
It's fascinating that continuationists love to point back to the day of Pentecost but admit they aren't speaking human languages, unlike Pentecost.
Cessationists are correct that the sign gifts ended. Tongues, the gift of healing and direct revelation have ended.
And I know of no-one who teaches all the gifts have ceased. Such a person is not even a Christian.
But thanks for demonstrating again how ignorant and careless and deceptive continuationists are.