Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
Your view on not everyone suppose to make disciples is not a biblical one but traditional one. Less than two percent of Christian’s evangelize and the reason they give is the same you did “ that is the job of evangelists” but paul is clear that the role of evangelists is to equip the saints for the ministry
Hi from Australia, my husband and I have seen the difference of the biblical and modern churches. We decided to start gathering at home in a way that everyone can share and participate. It's being a journey, and I feel the Lord is teaching us His way. For now it's only seven adults and my 12 year old son, who also participates and shares with us, his growth in the Lord has being amazing to watch. This is a very encouraging video to us.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
A hearty AMEN to this! I truly believe the Lord is calling His body back to what was originally intended in the Scriptures. Thank you for speaking on this!
Have you ever heard of the "SERVMON" on the Mount, Matthew 5, 6 & 7 ; Our LORD Jesus, PREACHED the greatest "SERVMON" every PREACHED; the very idea of a SERVMON, means to DELIVER, message, to PREACH that which has been prepared, and the LORD Jesus PREACHED ONLY THAT WHICH WAS PREPARED BY HIS HEAVENLY FATHER FOR HIM TO SAY. As the LORD Himself confessed, speaking ONLY those things which his FATHER had given / prepared ; Matthew 20: 23 / John 8 : 28 / 12: 50 / consider also Colossians 1: 25
So you have heard the good news and have been saved, and your neighbours will have to wait for God to raise an "evangelist" to preach to them while you enjoy the cosiness of your comfort zone? The believers Who were persecuted and left Jerusalem and preached wherever they went, were they all evangelists???
@elizabeth5753 "!OMG! " "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. " (Exod 20:7, KJV)
Thank you! This has been weighing heavily on my heart the past year. My most edifying time reading the scriptures has been when my teenage son and I read through scripture every evening. His profound questions were ones I didn’t consider before and gave us opportunity to investigate together. My heart was full. I was at a Messianic church and they teach within. I would love to see Hebrew schools within churches and “Yeshiva’s” where 2 or 3 gather to read the Word together and discuss. How wonderful would that be!
Love you brothers and sisters in Christ! The Church is truly longing for a "Return". Many people have been walking away from the church system we've created and seeking something genuine, something real, something true. I think this whole rethinking of how to return to edifying gatherings is truly "the Way" that we have wandered from. Praying for continued success in your efforts for the Lord and His Bride!
@@AlexanderosD so very true. And if we can you look outside of our inner circle of believers, we can see how disillusion people are, who have always seen, and even experience the kind of over bearing and divisive practices of what I will call, “church American style”. There needs to be more of a sense of reckoning and confession In main stream Christianity that could very well lead to a broader revival in our country.
How do you find like-minded Christians that see the institutional church as unbiblical. We've wanted it forever, but not sure how to find it. I talk with friends about it & they seem to agree but remain in the church system
@@megnlu Perhaps you will never find a like minded soul. However you have the holy Spirit and a bible and TH-cam. All help you need is In Christ. Christ is the truth. And Christ will never forsake you. Be happy when they cast you out of the camp. You do not need the camp. That is at least my experience.
Good stuff. This topic has become my main focus for a few years. People should pray the night before assembling, of how Jesus wants to use them the next day. Church needs to be a place of participation and not just sitting and watching a few people run “a show” that pretty much repeats the next week.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
" People should pray the night before assembling, of how Jesus wants to use them the next day: They should use ALL WEEK is their preparation for "meeting together." Hebrews 10:24-25 24 And LET US (all of us) CONSIDER HOW (prepare in advance) to stir up ONE ANOTHER (opposite of a sermon) to LOVE AND GOOD WORKS, (far beyond cerebral knowledge) 25 not neglecting to MEET TOGETHER, as is the habit of some, (as the habit of 99% of sermon listeners) but encouraging ONE ANOTHER, (again, mutual participation by all) and ALL THE MORE (beyond one service) as you see the Day drawing near.
Greetings Tom from Western Australia. I find what you are saying here takes me back to when I first met my wife. She had become a believer in a Plymouth Brethren church in West London. What you are describing was part of the morning meeting in this assembly (That's what the described their meetings, assembly). Around the celebration of breaking of bread each male (women were not allowed to contribute) could do exactly what you describe. Each would contribute to the sharing of scripture and what would build up the assembly of believers. The elders here were very ordinary men in their occupations but exceptional men in their spiritual maturity. One was a garbage collector another a telephone engineer and others simple workers. I have never come across such Godly men. I love what you are saying because I have seen it work and been in church groups where each can contribute.
More great stuff. Can't say enough how much I appreciate your service and commitment to the truths you have discovered regarding the early New Covenant church. I have been sharing my appreciation for you and your work with my local assembly. Thank you for offering this as a reliable resource on the topic!
I that you man of GOD for that word of knowledge and wisdom. As you unpacked the word , I could see my faults in preaching and how the church is set up in today’s world. Thank you and keep spreading this knowledge to whoever has ears to hear, let them hear. God bless you
@@darrylaustin3201 yes, we’ve all been conditioned and schooled to accept the present day representation of church. Be prepared, Jesus confronted the same over bearing influence from the Pharisees, is beginnings will be represented in Confronting modern church with this truth.
Excellent insight into the Word. Thank you Tom. Your clarification has opened my eyes and confirmed my doubts regarding the organized system of Christianity. I'm resolved to pray and seek God for personal direction in this matter.
I am so encouraged by your message. Thank you so much. I have had similar thoughts about organized church practices in modern day and regarding the verses called the Great Commission. What a great relief and comfort to know that I am not alone in my thinking.
I attended and listened and spoke in a "Local Church" where there was an opening passage read and then people were invited to provide whatever they were moved to. And if they weren't moved, they just sat. I could feel a spirit (the Spirit?) move from one to another in perfect harmony, nobody interrupted, everybody knowing when to sit back down to let the next person speak. I can see gatherings with knowledge of the Gifts Paul spoke of being even more effective
We do this each Shabbat , it can be very interesting , [ but ] our pastor had to put some limits on this openness , because some people abused this form of gathering
You are truly blessed. Haven’t found any such church in our community. I live in eastern Pennsylvania. I have been blessed with the gift of exhortation and prophecy, and as you could imagine that has not been well received. My wife and I have been painfully expelled, shunned, gaslit and scornfully shamed. I always was careful to minister the gift given in a private setting, with respect and dignity for the person and the circumstances. The beatitudes come to mind, and yet I consider it a privilege to suffer a similar fate, as our Lord Jesus did in the hands of the Pharisees.
@@Godsglorygarden-v6r The meetings I went to may have been part of the "Local Church" form. Their faithfulness to what they considered how the church was supposed to operate according to Paul and other New Testament references had them allow only one per city (locality) as multiple churches in a place is not mentioned. The problem for me was that it was too far away for me to attend regularly. Plus I had other issues outside of their meetings
I believe 1 Cor 14:26 is misunderstood here: "How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification." Paul is not saying that each one should have a psalm or a teaching or a tongue etc. He is criticising them for this. He is saying that all things should be done for edification and that NOT everyone should expect to speak and telling them to be orderly and not chaotic. A gathering at which every unsuitable speaker who loved the sound of their own voices was wasting the time of the church would not be edifying.
@@roberttwyman432 You make a valid point, or perhaps another possibility. While there is a redundancy to seek unity in like mindedness From God’s word (not the steamroller, crushing out, so-called order established in contemporary churches), the valid need is that the movement of God spirit among his people is redundantly edified through his word. Gifts such as prophetic, apostle, (contemporary vision , or admonishment), or all of the many other gifts should gain an insight and perspective, valued by all. Exhortation should always be attempted to be private however, sometimes demands to be made public to the congregation. Is it possible that if exhortation wasn’t crushed out of the church, we wouldn’t have the problems in church that we have today? Tragically, we often times compare our own evil or wicked culture and contemporary manners and try to apply it to God’s word that was identifying with the humbly Pius ,Jesus in the flesh, people of the Bible.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
Thanks for all the work and research you've done and are sharing here. You've really nailed it on all points and have a way of explaining it at laymen's level.
My grief of losing both my sister and brother in 10 months, has had me begging the Lord to send me a new interest. I have been in church all 68 years. Attended women’s Bible study, couples Bible study and personal on line study. THANK YOU FOR CLEARING UP THE HISTORICAL MYSTERY ON HOW WE GOT HERE‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️. For last year I have been attending Home Churcg group studying TORAH plus OT & NT I HAVE COME ALIVE IN THE SPIRIT. Learning GODS LAWS for HIS PEOPLE and those of us in branch grafted into HIS FAMILY. Praise God for your study and teaching others 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼💙💙💙🎶🎶🎉🎉
Thank you for your insights into early church life.. At the age of 38 my hubby and I because of a trauma that was going on in our family we both at the same time had a visitation by the Holy Spirit of the Living God that opened our eyes to the revelation of God...Up until that point there was no way that we could ever have believed in there being a God out there somewhere as we were both not interested. But upon this happening our lives were completely turned upside down. A few months later we had an opportunity to have been able to set ourselves up for life with a nice home and money in the bank. But we became aware that we had a very important decision to make, do we go down that road or do we choose to build our riches in God's Kingdom???? And we chose to build our riches in God. Now that was not an easy desion as the years went by, but if ever there was a doubt we gently heard the Lord remind us of what we agreed to do all those years ago. And since that one time of doubt we have never wavered off this path. We did go to a church for a short time but realised that it was religion and not life so walked away and as we are now both 85 have had the most amazing life in God. We live in Perth Australia and was wondering what cities or towns that had watched your video and also as I'm not clued up on computer was wanting to ask you how are we able to watch that video as I have no idea how to find it. We are on our own at present and we do miss not having fellowship with God's people. Many thanks for your programs as we have watched the whole series that you made. Kind regards Lorna
I praise our Father in Heaven for using the algorithms to lead me to you... Blessings from New Zealand :) I've been stirred in my spirit for quite some time on this matter. I'm 52, raised in the church, lead youth groups, worship teams etc and after it all... Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher, vanity of vanities! All is vanity. Eccl 1:2 We had our vision Sunday yesterday and it was much of the same. Enlisting willing volunteers into training/ leadership programmes. Where is the one to one discipleship as you said? where's the bringing up the next generation? I continuously ask Holy Spirit to check my heart and not let any judgement or bittier root be planted as I travail over this matter. With your teaching, I just sat back and drank it in. I will certainly listen to your other posts as I'm now confident I've stumbled upon a deep well of blessing.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
It is not by chance that so many have tuned into your teachings at this point in time. The world is rapidly changing and the inadequacy of the current system became glaringly obvious to many in 2020. People are questioning the traditional church organisation and have been earnestly seeking a meaningful way forward. When your seventh teaching unexpectedly popped up on my feed it was an answer to a prayer. It was eye opening and exciting. The Lord has His ways and is preparing us for what is to come. Thank you for reinforcing and expanding with another inspirational teaching. God Bless you.
I could not agree more with this post. I was definitely having questions and praying about are “worship services” and these videos have been an answer to prayer…
@@shawnsmith4531open your Strong's concordance of the KJV and search for the verses that include both words WORSHIP and MUSICK and tell me who is worshipped with MUSICK.
@@AudreyZIB that is the original English spelling. Get The KJV bible and do a word search for the verses that has both Worship and Musick in the same verse and you will be amazed with what you find out.
We have been reading the Bible and praying at home for years now and his videos confirmed so much! I've learned so much. That's why churches constantly die or grow then die again and repeat. The way the churches are run that's why!
I 100% agree. When I left my full time job as a Student Minister to become a full time Pastor, I had a few that said that I was more of a teacher than a Preacher. Also, that I wasn't as loud as some of their former pastors. Teaching is the way to go in the local church. Small groups are just as or more important, if not more important, than the Preaching going on.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
I enjoy your points. You need to take a closer look at teaching that only some should be able to share their faith. Being an evangelist is one thing, but being equipped to share Jesus with others is at the core of who we are and why we are here. There are many verses which would release everyone from being evangelists, but no verses that would release believers from the responsibility to share their faith to friends and relatives when the opportunity presents itself.
That's not the point he was making. It is clear in the NT writings that we all have a responsibility to share our faith and lives with those that don't know the Lord when the opportunity arises. But we're not all equipped or called to _specifically_ go out and do that. It's nuanced and there's a subtle distinction. Perhaps a better way of putting it is by looking at prophecy. There are specific prophets whose calling is to equip the church in this area, yet it was made clear that we should all seek the gift of prophecy, that is learning to hear from God and relaying what he says. And with this goes the responsibility to weigh and test what a person that prophesies brings. Not everyone is an evangelist, yet everyone evangelises in one way or another. I hope that makes some sense !
Our church has been meeting in a home for 20 years. We start off by opening the meeting to participation with someone having an opening thought or maybe a testimony, a burden, a song, a praise and go on from there usually with singing. We spend some time praying and taking the symbols. We take a break after an hour and then we have a teaching from the word. Usually the teaching or message has more depth and usually makes more of an impression than the usual ad lib sharing. The meeting is led but open. We always have a meal after that. We do have evangelist that operate outside the church and they give reports after an outreach.
@@revvbrowne Christ is the head of the church overall. The word translated "bishop"(in some translations) simply means "overseer". No denomination is able to trace their hierarchy back to the Apostles. Jesus said there would be no hierarchy in the church: Mar 10:42 But having called them near, Jesus said to them, You know that The ones seeming to rule the nations lord it over them, and The ones great among them exercise authority over them. Mar 10:43 But it shall not be so among you...
Here is a list of practices commonly found in modern churches that are not explicitly mandated or described in the New Testament: 1. Pastor-Led Worship Services: In the New Testament, gatherings were typically led by multiple elders or overseers, with no mention of a single pastor having a central role in leading worship or delivering weekly sermons. 2. Marriage Ceremonies: There is no description of formal church-led marriage ceremonies in the New Testament. Marriage is acknowledged as a covenant between a man and a woman, but there are no prescribed rituals or church ceremonies. 3. Church Buildings: The New Testament church primarily gathered in homes (e.g., Acts 2:46; Romans 16:5), not in dedicated church buildings. Purpose-built churches as we know them came centuries later. 4. Tithing as a Requirement: The New Testament does not command Christians to tithe (give 10% of income) to the church. Giving in the New Testament was more focused on generosity and meeting the needs of others (2 Corinthians 9:7). 5. Formal Ordination of Clergy: While there is mention of elders and deacons being appointed, the elaborate ordination processes or titles like "Reverend" or "Bishop" found in many denominations are not described in the New Testament. 6. Worship Bands/Choirs: While music is mentioned (e.g., Colossians 3:16), there is no specific description of organized choirs, worship bands, or formalized praise teams leading congregational singing. 7. Pulpits and Sermon-Centric Gatherings: The New Testament doesn't describe worship services centered around a single sermon or message delivered from a pulpit. Instead, gatherings included teaching, mutual edification, prayer, and fellowship (1 Corinthians 14:26). 8. Sunday as the Primary Worship Day: Although early Christians did meet on the "first day of the week" (Acts 20:7), there is no specific mandate that Sunday must be the main day for worship gatherings, and there is no strict prohibition against meeting on other days. 9. Youth Programs/Children's Ministries: The New Testament does not mention separate ministries for children, youth, or other age groups. Families were generally expected to worship and learn together. 10. Church Membership Rolls: There is no mention of formal church membership rolls or processes for joining or leaving a local church in the New Testament. 11. Alter Calls: The New Testament does not describe the modern practice of altar calls, where individuals come forward to accept Christ during a service. 12. Denominational Structures: Denominations and their specific governing structures are not found in the New Testament. The early church was unified in its beliefs but decentralized in terms of specific church governance. 13. Programs and Committees: Organized programs like Sunday schools, outreach programs, or committees to handle church affairs (common in modern churches) are not described in the New Testament. 14. Paid Clergy: While "the worker is worthy of his wages" (1 Timothy 5:18) is sometimes cited in support of paying pastors, there is no specific command or formal system in the New Testament regarding full-time salaried positions for church leaders. 15. Holiday Celebrations: Christian celebrations such as Christmas and Easter, while they commemorate important events in Christian theology, are not mentioned in the New Testament. These celebrations arose much later in church history. 16. Baptism Classes: In the New Testament, people were often baptized immediately after believing (e.g., Acts 8:36-38), with no mention of formalized instruction classes prior to baptism. 17. Confirmation or First Communion: These formal rites of passage found in some Christian traditions are not described in the New Testament. 18. Theological Seminaries: While there is clear emphasis on teaching and discipleship in the New Testament, formal theological schools or seminaries are not mentioned. 19. Sacramental View of Communion: While the New Testament commands the breaking of bread in remembrance of Christ (Luke 22:19), it doesn't describe the elaborate sacramental system found in many modern churches, particularly in Catholic and Orthodox traditions. 20. Church Fundraising Events: Events like bake sales, car washes, or other fundraising activities for church projects are not mentioned in the New Testament. 21. Confession to a Priest/Pastor: The practice of confessing sins to a priest or pastor for absolution is not mandated in the New Testament. Confession is encouraged as a personal act between the individual and God (1 John 1:9), and mutual confession among believers is mentioned (James 5:16), but not in a formalized priestly setting. These practices, while often integral to modern church life, developed over time through tradition and cultural influence. The New Testament's focus is on mutual edification, fellowship, discipleship, and life lived in the Spirit, rather than on formal structures or rituals.
This is a very long list, isn’t it, of man-made features of contemporary church practice that are NON-BIBLICAL and that are not found in the early church. When pastors stand in front of people at their meetings and, in prayer before God, ask for revival, they are usually LYING, because, patently, they fundamentally have NO DESIRE TO CHANGE WHATSOEVER. Christians expect non-Christians to engage with truth and repent, but astoundingly, one consistent feature of many so-called Christians is that they have ABSOLUTELY NO DESIRE TO HEAR THE TRUTH. John Milton lamented the lack of true shepherds in the church in his poem, ‘Lycidas,’ which is as relevant today as it was back in 1637.
I completely agree with everything you are saying. I have felt this way for a few years now. It started quite a few years back when I was not willing or had any desire anymore to let anyone prophesy over me or pray over me because I felt I could receive everything I needed by going directly before the throne. a couple of years ago, I felt that I was not going to go to church anymore to hear someone preach for an hour because that is not what I was after: to listen to someone’s ‘great revelation ‘from the Lord. As you said, I have felt that the body has been mistreated and has been treated as a second class citizen in the church there were times that I actually was so sensitive to this whole treatment of the body by the ministers in the church that I even felt a sense of shame, and the body was being shamed and put down. I feel very greased by the way services are being conducted today even in spirit filled churches.
I left organized religion years ago. As an evangelist, I have been filling in for my brother since he's been sick. The lack of knowledge, wisdom, understanding, or desire for God in the "church" is jaw-dropping. I don't believe hardly anyone opens a Bible anymore.
I grew up in charismatic churches, and one day as I was feeling like a particular low-life, as a Christian, comparing myself to others there, the Lord spoke to me and told me I was perfectly capable of understanding my Bible for myself. He made it clear we depend far too much on what they tell us. A whole lot of error. Once I started reading and seeking His guidance, the whole world changed for me. I still ended up going through some dark stuff, from a few leaders, from 3 different churches, but now I know why. I don't go anymore. Partly because I see what wolves they can be. Partly because these people have slandered me in my hometown, among their fellow church leaders/friends. That's not church. Those are cults.
We attend a Messianic fellowship that meets on the seventh day Sabbath . We read the Torah each week and of course the later Scriptures . We have an open dialogue [ conversation \ discussion ] just as this man is talking about , And these forms of meetings are wonderful , we as a fellowship learn so much and our minds are quickened made alive with this kind of stimulus . ''Now'' here is an issue , some people will take ''advantage'' of this kind gathering , so our pastor had to put some order to this and put up on the screen the limitations to how long you can speak and how many times you could speak . You learn so much more by gathering this way , and the emphasis [ importance \ prominence ] is '' Not '' on the pastor " but ' on the scriptures !
I love this. I have been exploring the idea of Sabbath day for gatherings, but we are still in first day gatherings. My current thought is every day is a great day to get together and be church together. I have wondered if the early church started meeting on the first day because they were trying to minister in the synagogues on the Sabbath, and because Jesus was first seen by people after his resurrection on the first day. Was that the custom long before politicians decided that “sun”day was the proper day to celebrate?
@@bitrudder3792 You can do your research about the Sabbath if your serious . Yes everyday is a good day to meet to worship . But God himself blessed the 7th day , Jesus Yeshua observed the 7th day . Do a really good research on the Sabbath it's up to you and you alone to figure this out . Blessings
@@bitrudder3792 When was the Sabbath established? CREATION. Sabbath exist FOR YOUR WELL BEING. As a BELIEVER you HAVE to come to the place to search for TRUTH. You must be WILLING to ask God to reveal Truth in his WORD to you. When you do that, DO NOT be shocked that some things we assume are okay in truth are not okay. What day a person goes to church doesnt matter. SABBATH is SATURDAY, the seventh day what is IMPORTANT about the Sabbath is RESTING from work spending the day with your FAMILY being present and relaxing (REST) God set that PARTICULAR DAY (WE DONT CHOOSE WHICH DAY ITS SATURDAY) sanctified it, SET IT APART and made it holy. THAT in and of itself is reason enough to obey Gods command to REST
Devon 🇬🇧. Great study! Really challenging to our long-held conceptions. I used to go to a church many years ago where every Sunday they preached a 'gospel sermon' to a roomful of Christians! Why? There were never any visitors. It just got boring and eventually we left when we moved house.
Hi Tom, I am currently working on my Doctoral Program on Church Based Theological Education in context of early Apostolic Model which is way different from our contemporary model. Thanks for producing these videos, bringing light to these profound insights. In my studies I am going through these Paradigmitic core issues and to address them in my DMin dissertation.
This is the purest form of worship that you go to a widow's and orphans house with eyes to see where they need help in their distress...the better translation of "This is pure and undefiled (the same word repeated) religion (the word is worship) that you visit (going with eyes to see not chatting and having coffee) a widow and orphan in their distress.
Pastors typically learn a few ideas from the Bible during their seminary training. After that, they regurgitate their seminary doctrines or preach from a book they've read. Often, several men in the congregation are wiser than the pastor, with God-given knowledge of the Bible greater than the pastor because of their willingness to entertain ideas beyond the rigid dogma taught at seminary. But, here's the catch. The denominations will not allow the Bible to speak lest it invalidate some or all of their beliefs formed out of denomination tradition or misapplication of Scripture. So, the church is not protecting "The Truth" by denying men in the congregation the right to speak; it is protecting its traditions and doctrines from biblical scrutiny. The truth of the Bible died a long while ago, if it ever existed, in most churches. All that is left is a pastor/assistant pastor parroting their denomination's doctrines yielding a congregation consisting of spiritually feeble or entirely unspiritually motivated (non-Christians) sitting each week enduring 45 minutes of sermonizing as they await lunchtime and their opportunity to share gossip and argue about sports. It's a shame that spiritual truth gleaned from the Bible by Christ-minded men in the church is despised and considered "risky" or "prone to error" while the pastor rambles on teaching unbiblical ideas each Sunday to a half-asleep congregation that is mostly, if not all, spiritually dead. Why would the Spirit of God that enlightens true Christians remain in a church that loathes truth and teaches the doctrines of men? Genuine Christians would not, leaving behind only the straw and stubble. The result of the current approach to preaching is to produce a white-washed sepulcher of a church that looks attractive and stately externally but is full of the spiritual dead.
Great video thanks, been frustrated with church recently as I actually find it boring doing the same thing over and over. And yes the people become docile as they even know what's going to happen, so when we start to pray in the begging of the service the lack serious motivation to even open their mouths. This video has helped me understand a lot of what I was feeling thank you ❤
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
Ive come to the SAME understanding that not everyone is called to be an evangelist and the context of the great commission is straight the the 12 for the reasons you shared. I completely agree it’s very discouraging for many that the church teaches the way it does in this topic.
How refreshing to see another person say this. I have gone down a road of returning to the OT and really seeing what being obedient is. No one teaches obedience anymore. In fact we hate that word. One thing I have learned is bout 150 ish AD things began to creep into the church. About 300 ish AD it REALLY CHANGED. Constantine took over and the rest is history. It has not been the same since. Although, I keep finding pockets of people who have come to the same conclusion. And I'm finding more everyday. No one taught them this. It is like God has suddenly woken a few people up and continues to do so with increasing speed. Thank you for posting this. Today's church has become one of two things. It is either a Rock Concert with a watered down touchy feely "we are all alright" message. OR it is old and stale and full of old people in suits and ties type dress that thinks the younger people have lost their minds. There is not much in-between Neither is ok.
Don't overstate your point. "No one teaches obedience anymore" is simply not true, though you are, of course, correct that it is not a popular message for many. At the church I go to, obedience is frequently mentioned.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
Very thoughtful and thought provoking, but also quite discouraging as I live in rural England and don’t know of a single person near me who would even want to discuss such ideas.
You might find a few people from this group of Jesus’ followers who are in a similar situation and create a Zoom group for this purpose! The Holy Spirit is not troubled by geographical distance!
@@jttj742for one thing, they have disappeared down the DEI rabbit hole, affirming same sex marriage etc. . Many British Christians would question whether the Quakers are still a truly Christian group.
Thank you so much for this and boldness of the truth. The Holy Spirit teaches me many things and I often get discouraged because not being surrounded by any with understanding, maturity, and power of discernment. God is good! I’m grateful to know that Christ truly does have a body left in this world. God bless you with strength to keep going and standing for truth.🙏
I understand a way or open form of meeting, that's led by the Spirit and follows the way Paul instructed us to meet in his epistles. If anyone wants to meet or fellowship in Northeast Kansas, please let me know. God Bless!
I just found a church that started out as a home church and has many elements of that, but still has a sermon - and I'm trying to be tolerant because the people are awesome. The sermon is an exercise in boredom... I don't want to create division. If it becomes too tedious, I will leave... I'm most interested in the Bible study and the interactions with other believers.... they have open prayer for each other which I think is vital. Thank you for being a Luther and nailing your observations to the church door!
Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
Thank you for posting this. I've pondered this very thought for a very long time. So much of what I see in churches doesn't seem at all what We see in Acts. I hate that we build these giant edifices to hold hundreds of people. As you said, there is no "one anothering" I had a friend years ago whom I agreed to meet in the lobby of her mega church. I was horrified as masses of people flocked by me in an effort to quickly leave. Where was the fellowship? Even much smaller churches cannot support one anothering because they are built around programs not people. I often think of how Christians in persecuted countries might gather together. The NT churches were instructed to not forsake the gathering of themselves together. Somehow I am rather doubting that they believed it meant gather all together religiously in one large space once or twice a week to hear someone speak for an hour. I'm thinking it probably meant more of, "Hey, let's get together on such a day and talk about Jesus, while we have share a meal together, and encourage one another. And as for the lack of perspective, is it any wonder that so many preachers have almost a cultic like following. Some churches give so much power to their pastor that they become a god. One last thought, it would logically follow that the churches will become weaker and weaker, because God's people have not been given the right to practice evangelism and speaking their faith.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
Thanks for the comments. I wholeheartedly agree that the church needs to be more concerned about implementing the commands to strengthen and encourage one another although those commands seem to be intended in a general way, in the sense of the regular and consistent engagement of the church with each other, and not only or specifically for when they met for their meetings on the first day of the week. Paul’s commands should be understood as a lifestyle that extends beyond the meeting itself. However, the one example in the New Testament, that I can recall, where we have a description of an actual Christian meeting on the first day of the week challenges many of your points. Acts 20 seems to describe Paul as the authoritative teacher, instructing others with a long discussion/lesson/sermon, while at least one person (Eutyches) sat passively listening-to the point that he fell asleep and fell out of the window. Not only does this story mirror what we might find in terms of instruction in a modern church, one might be tempted to consider it the worst form of that type of instruction. Of course, this hinges on how one would understand the verb “dialegomai.” If one takes it as “discussion”, then the text might allow for exactly the format you are proposing - multiple people engaging in teaching each other. While that would be a possible lexical meaning of the term, the story itself suggests, at least to me, that this was not the type of instruction taking place at the time. Eutyches was certainly not engaged in the discussion if there was one taking place. Acts 20 seems to describe a monologue from Paul that was the longest and most central portion of the meeting. Your points are well-taken but in the absence of actual accounts of the practice of the church in the New Testament, except in the above example, you might be drawing your conclusions too rigidly. Thanks for raising the issue. God bless.
"Acts 20 seems to describe a monologue from Paul that was the longest and most central portion of the meeting. " So you see the term "dialegomai" for dialogue and you dismiss or marginalize it. Based on what authority? Your experience in pulpit and pew life and your imagination? 1. The apostles taught 56 "one another" instructions. Even "meeting together" in Hebrews 10:24-25 is complete "one another". In 1 Cor. 14:26 "When you come together brothers...." is ALL "EACH ONE HAS..." 2. Were you thinking the apostles LECTURED these instructions or PRACTICED these 56 "one another" instructions? The apostles did not contradict what they taught. Jesus practiced these also because Paul was "imitating Christ." 1 Cor. 11:1. "... the story itself suggests, at least to me, that this was not the type of instruction taking place at the time.." Interpret the story according to what the apostles would teach CONSITENTLY throughout the NT. Interpret the practice of ekklesia - assembly - through the lens of IDENTITY - Body - Every member of the body contributing - Family - every brother and sister contributing as MUTUAL family members, all with a DIRECT connection to the "holy places." Hired Bible experts in INSTITUTION format have ZERO basis in God's revelation to his people. They are ALL deceived, based on scripture over and over again. The God of the Bible is a DIALOGUE God. He NEVER lectures anyone. And there is MUCH MORE revelation on practicing God's instructions for his people.
@lyallarmstrong7288 "I wholeheartedly agree that the church needs to be more concerned about implementing the commands to strengthen and encourage one another although those commands seem to be intended in a general way, in the sense of the regular and consistent engagement of the church with each other, and not only or specifically for when they met for their meetings on the first day of the week. Paul’s commands should be understood as a lifestyle that extends beyond the meeting itself." In general, I'd agree with you there. I think you're right. But it's a round Robin agreement, because, as well as being a general lifestyle principle, it will, by necessity and the nature of the Spirit, play itself out in our meetings. The two go hand in hand. It's continual change and renewal. "However, the one example in the New Testament, that I can recall, where we have a description of an actual Christian meeting on the first day of the week challenges many of your points." I disagree and I'll explain why. "Acts 20 seems to describe Paul as the authoritative teacher, instructing others with a long discussion/lesson/sermon, while at least one person (Eutyches) sat passively listening-to the point that he fell asleep and fell out of the window. Not only does this story mirror what we might find in terms of instruction in a modern church, one might be tempted to consider it the worst form of that type of instruction" The beauty of the New Covenant meetings is that there were none that were "typical." Anything could happen. I liken it to jazz as opposed to pop. Pop is by its very nature repetitive and to a large extent geared towards mass consumption, so when you go to a pop gig, you have a good idea of what you are going to get. You'll know many of the songs and have a list in your head that you hope you'll hear, you'll sing the choruses, you might dance, when the pop artist tells you to shout, you shout. When they tell you they can't hear you, you shout louder. It's quite tightly structured and you know pretty much the destination you'll be arriving at. Not so with jazz. You haven't got a clue where the musicians are going to take things.....because they haven't got an idea where they're going to take things ! You might recognize the start and finish of a piece, or you may recognize bits within the piece but there's just as good a chance you won't. And "songs" end when the artist is good and ready to bring them to an end or when mental and physical exhaustion dictates a winding down and end..... So it is with the Spirit. Jesus likened him to the wind, someone/something we don't know where it's coming from or going to. So to go back to that scene at Troas, the first thing to note is that they came together to eat. The phrase "break bread" is simply people having a meal together. It's not a ritual thing, not a scenario where people ate a little cracker and drank a thimble of grape juice so as not to offend legalistic sensibilities. They came together on that first day of the week to eat. We know from "the Last Supper" and Paul's letter to the Corinthians {among a number of other NT passages} that the believers came together regularly to eat and it seems to me that eating together was an important part of their meetings. But I also have to say, that many years ago, I concluded with a smile that it was just typical of God that one of the principal ways he wanted his people to remember him was by the act of eating. Gotta love the Lord ! And unfortunately, so many of us over the centuries have reduced something so simple, communal and beautifully God-directed to a shadow of a ritual that bears absolutely no relation to what his intent was. Typically human. So in Troas, they were eating and Paul was chatting as they ate. The reason he talked all night {this was clearly not a typical, regular thing in their meetings} was because he was leaving the next day. We don't actually have any descriptions of Paul in an actual meeting from which we can draw a conclusion and say, "this is how it should be." So yes, Paul gave a monologue, but then, Paul was a monologue kind of guy, and we are given a clear reason why he gave a monologue. To try to take from this particular story something that justifies the way church meetings have operated for 19 centuries would mean that you'd have to advocate sermons that go on all night. The very fact that Eutychus fell asleep and then fell out of the window and died, alone tells me that this was an unusual state of affairs. Paul wasn't interested in any conversation that night. He had something to say and as he'd be gone the next day, by golly, he was going to say it ! There's nothing wrong with authoritative teachers teaching. There's plenty wrong with the authoritative teacher teaching every time the church gathers, to the exclusion of anyone else having input, even if the input is only a question or two.
@@grimtraveller7923 "So yes, Paul gave a monologue, but then, Paul was a monologue kind of guy, and we are given a clear reason why he gave a monologue." 1. You have been fooled by translators. In Acts 20, the word translated speaking is dialegomai, which is SPECIFICALLY dialogue. No, Paul was not a "monologue kind of guy." 2. If Paul taught 50+ "one another" instructions and NEVER taught one man dominating alleged to be "teaching", Paul PRACTICED these "one another" instructions. There is NO INSTRUCTION for one man to lecture the Bibel EVER. Or did I miss one. Let me know if I did. 3. In pulpit and pew church it is ASSUMED that if someone has a Bible degree they have a gift in teaching, and if they are a lay person they are ASSUMED to not have the gift of teaching unless they express an interest. 4. There are 2 "one another" instructions that involve teaching. Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you RICHLY, TEACHING AND ADMONISHING ONE ANOTHER in ALL WISDOM, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. Romans 15:14 I myself am satisfied about you, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and ABLE TO INSTRUCT ONE ANOTHER. Please let me know about these points.
You've opened up a whole new world of possibilities, for me. I've tried returning to the church I was born into, but it's just as you say. A set, rote event. Set around the pastor, only, talking. If he's got any new, good ideas, or if he performs his sermon well-wonderful. Chances are....not. And it's funny how I couldn't solidify it all, in concrete terms in my mind, until I saw your videos. Probably has to do with my dysfunctional developing years, where I learned my opinions didn't count, so I suppressed them. I was blessed to attend one event, as you advocate. It was communicated to me as a bible study. And an edifying dialogue did unsue. Unfortunately, the female involved also had a boy-friend, or suiter who got jealous, so I didn't go back.
@ TerryChambers7 - I suspect that enough people return to this mode. Every time they gather with other believers, casually, or semi formally, it might end up reforming some churches! The church leader ship cannot impose this from above on a whole lot of people who haven’t been fully introduced to the idea and the benefits of it. They will freak out.😂 Funny, but not really funny when it happens in a church. Granted, if, in a very hierarchical Church with a priestly class that answers to an even higher hierarchy, it may never be able to impact that denomination as a whole. But I think it is valuable to institute changes from within, and ideally with some approval from the leaders of the church to do things on a small scale. If they are willing to see how that goes, you can see where God will take it. If they oppose it, that’s the information that you have to make your next decisions. Is God leading you to create a ruckus where you are? Or is he Leading you out?
@@jumperstartful I've been alarmed to see how many "truther" believers want to deny Paul as a legitimate apostle. God revealed so much to him that was a mystery prior, particularly about the first resurrection. Whoever doesnt believe Pauls words are really misssing out in their walk with Jesus and understanding God the Father's plans.
@TerryChambers7 ---> If you and the people that liked your post actually agree and believe what you posted.... I wonder:.... have you never read the book of "The Acts of The Apostles chapter 5 verses 1 thru 11? That was how the 1st Century infant church operated.
The modern pastoral system, characterized by a hierarchical structure where a single pastor or a small group of leaders holds significant authority over the congregation, can lead to problematic dynamics within the church. This top-down approach can foster an environment of blind submission, where members may prioritize the pastor's authority over their own convictions and biblical discernment. Historically, this has had dangerous consequences, as seen in Christian Germany during the rise of Hitler. Many church leaders aligned themselves with the Nazi regime, urging their congregations to submit to secular authority without question. This allegiance often stemmed from a misplaced reverence for pastoral authority, leading to complicity in atrocities rather than a call for moral accountability and resistance to evil. In contrast, the New Testament promotes a model of leadership that emphasizes shared authority, accountability, and mutual submission among believers (Ephesians 5:21). The emphasis on communal discernment and collective responsibility is crucial for preventing the dangers associated with authoritarianism in the church. Recognizing the potential for manipulation within a rigid pastor-led structure is essential for fostering a faith community that prioritizes Christ’s teachings over any individual leader’s agenda.
@@timothyallen6457 You are correct. Jesus declared mutual relationship. Matthew 20 25 But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the RULERS of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones EXERCISE AUTHORITY OVER THEM. 26 IT SHALL NOT BE SO AMONG YOU. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever would be first among you must be your slave, And there are more. There are several bogus translations that reinsert authority over others. 1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders who RULE well be considered worthy of double honor, This contradicts the above inserting "rule" for a different greek word than rule. Jesus used the Greek word for rule to REJECT it. But clergyism is a SYSTEM of men that corrupts God's instructions. Colossians 2:8 (NET) Be careful not to allow anyone to captivate you through an empty, deceitful philosophy that is according to HUMAN TRADITIONS and the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
Thank you for this insightful teaching. It's refreshing to the mind. I find the "one anothering" multiple perspective to be a thing I would want to consider.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
And, if that one "preacher" is wrong or teaches error promoted from traditional institutional "degreed" seminaries, there is no method in the current worship services to correct that error. The preacher is put in a position of authority that others feel intimidated and reluctant to approach that error. This causes ppl to move from one "church" congregation to another, continually searching for a better preacher. The house assembly allows that horizontal discussion that will open instruction for everyone.
So is it right to say that our Sunday School setup is more of the right definition of a worship service, where everyone can have a voice about a topic being discussed or studied.
@tomwadsworth Thank you, Dr. Wadsworth. I would remember as a former SS teacher, I often get out of my manual's topic because I enjoy listening and engaging in discussions amongst us, our minds are all awake and we all learn from each other's insights.
I watched all 7 vids and this one twice and I love the message. The big challenge we have is to build one up (to me) means that we must address our sin and the need to be transformed. This is a challenge since most churches preach “only grace” and that works are against the gospel (once saved always saved)… this is the perfect environment for stagmentation and even regression.
EVERY pulpit and pew institution has MANY points of sin baked in and all claimed to be godly. And they can be HOSTILE when scripture is given to EXPOSE their corruption. I know from experience in scattering seeds "of the word of God" in pulpit oriented churches. Here are the points of EXPOSING that I offer to 100% obedience to Christ. 1. 100% of the giving goes beyond the givers - no pooling to buy sermons and pulpit buildings primarily for the givers 2 Cor. 8 & 9 - All offerings and giving in the NT went beyond the givers. Meeting in homes is free. Leadership is “free of charge”. 1 Corinthians 9:18; 2 Corinthians 11:7 2. 100% one another communication - there are 50+ of these and no instructions for one way communication by one man for the whole time Heb.10:24,25 3. 100% mutual relationships- no power pyramid with titles - “you are all brothers” Matt 23:8; All have EQUAL STANDING 2 Peter 1:1 4. 100% reproducing leadership - everything a leader does is “entrusted” to “faithful people” 2 Tim. 2:1,2; Luke 6:40 5. 100% intergenerational meeting - never send the children away; they can participate fully in every way with the Holy Spirit inside them. Matt. 19:13 6. 100% demonstration of being "perfectly one" as Jesus prayed so the world will know Jesus is "perfectly one" with the Father. John 17:20-23 No more brand names division. No more clergy - laity division. 7. 100% of what we do is “service to Christ.” No secular vs sacred dichotomy of marketplace work from building God’s kingdom. Col. 3:23-24 8. 100% of all believers preparing in advance to manifest their unique gifts and "filling" of the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 Maybe you can add some points from your observation. We can discuss these.
Greetings Beloved of the Lord!, Tom, thanks for your teaching. How would you define 1 Timothy 4:13 - “Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.” Exhortation can be preaching. It can be private or public. Thanks for your thoughts. Much love and blessings…
I understand that the modern church culture would like to view exhortation as "preaching." I also understand that any church would like to justify everything that they are doing. But if we're trying to identify what kind of speaking was done in the regular assemblies of first century gatherings, then "preaching" (κηρύσσω, εὐαγγελίζω) is an odd choice. 1 Tim 4:13 clearly promotes the idea that first century assemblies should have the public reading of Scripture, exhortation (παράκλησις), and teaching. As I detailed in this video, there are problems with the modern concept of "preaching."
@12:20 While you correct that the English word "sermon" does not occur int he Bible, if you look at Acts 20, we find that in the Greek text of Acts, Paul is recorded as giving a monologue and later engaging in dialogue with the assembly. In other words he preached for a time and then had a time of Q and A after his message. SO there was preaching in Acts 20 and all through out Acts. What we have lost is the Q&A part of the service but what you are arguing in this video is ignoring the evidence that is right there in the text.
I could listen to this kind of teaching endlessly. I don't think that institutional churches are capable of turning out pastoral leaders because it is a system rather than a family of believers and seminary institutions are part of that system and also preserve it. It has more in common with a worldly organisation and paganism than what you reveal in scripture, it is man made religion similar to Catholicism in one form or another! Did not Jesus rail against religion all of which heap burdens on people?
The modern pastoral system, characterized by a hierarchical structure where a single pastor or a small group of leaders holds significant authority over the congregation, can lead to problematic dynamics within the church. This top-down approach can foster an environment of blind submission, where members may prioritize the pastor's authority over their own convictions and biblical discernment. Historically, this has had dangerous consequences, as seen in Christian Germany during the rise of Hitler. Many church leaders aligned themselves with the Nazi regime, urging their congregations to submit to secular authority without question. This allegiance often stemmed from a misplaced reverence for pastoral authority, leading to complicity in atrocities rather than a call for moral accountability and resistance to evil. In contrast, the New Testament promotes a model of leadership that emphasizes shared authority, accountability, and mutual submission among believers (Ephesians 5:21). The emphasis on communal discernment and collective responsibility is crucial for preventing the dangers associated with authoritarianism in the church. Recognizing the potential for manipulation within a rigid pastor-led structure is essential for fostering a faith community that prioritizes Christ’s teachings over any individual leader’s agenda.
Hi, Greetings from the UK. As a pastor, I'm finding this material really helpful. I love preaching the gospel, and I also love teaching. The one thing I don't love is "preaching" to the same congregation week by week, for the very reasons you set out in this teaching. I have a question though. You mention the verses about instructing one another, and Heb 5:12 "by this time you ought to be teachers", but James 3:1 says "not many should presume to be teachers." I wondered what Tom, or anyone, would say about this verse?
Thanks for the comment! Heb 5:12 shouldn't make us think that everyone must be a teacher. If you study ALL the NT references to "teach," "teacher," and "teaching" (διδάσκω), it's clear that the teaching function was a higher-level skill that carried a higher level of responsibility. See verses like 2 Tim 2:2 ("The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful people who will be able to teach others also"); 1 Tim. 3:2;(The overseer must be "able to teach," cf. Titus 1:9); Matt. 10:24-25 ("A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master"; cf. Luke 6:40). I think the writer of Hebrews is simply saying that those Christians should have grown much more than they have. Does that answer your question? Or did I misunderstand your question?
@@tomwadsworth thanks for your quick response, which is fine - question not misunderstood! I wondered if you are part of an assembly where these teaching are put into practice. If so, a video teaching on the application could be helpful, with some of the challenges as well as blessings? God bless.
@@nicklowe8102 For most of the last 40+ years, I've been involved in an "adult Bible study." At the same time, I've regularly attended a "traditional church." I've come to realize that my "adult Bible study" has much more in common with first-century assemblies than a "worship service" at a modern "church building." I suspect that you know what I'm saying ...
@@tomwadsworth Thanks. One of the reasons I've appreciated your teaching is because you don't write off 'traditional' churches, which I think is important. Generally, they are full of well-meaning Christian people. At the same time for me there's been a big BUT, and a disconnect between what we read of in the NT compared to modern churches of all persuasions, which I've noticed, but not really been able to understand well. But your videos have really helped.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
Good stuff. He argues that what is missing in preaching is "opportunity for development" I would argue that what is missing in most cases in both "preaching" and "teaching" is application, a clear path to doing, obeying the word. Teaching in the church building tends to leave folks in the pews as cold and unchanged as preaching. It is information. What Tom does not dwell on in this talk is that NT "teaching", both in Jesus and Paul, is really more like an apprenticeship than a lecture. Both emphasize imitation: Watch and replicate. This kind of teaching is not suited for the classroom or the "sanctuary".
The modern pastoral system, characterized by a hierarchical structure where a single pastor or a small group of leaders holds significant authority over the congregation, can lead to problematic dynamics within the church. This top-down approach can foster an environment of blind submission, where members may prioritize the pastor's authority over their own convictions and biblical discernment. Historically, this has had dangerous consequences, as seen in Christian Germany during the rise of Hitler. Many church leaders aligned themselves with the Nazi regime, urging their congregations to submit to secular authority without question. This allegiance often stemmed from a misplaced reverence for pastoral authority, leading to complicity in atrocities rather than a call for moral accountability and resistance to evil. In contrast, the New Testament promotes a model of leadership that emphasizes shared authority, accountability, and mutual submission among believers (Ephesians 5:21). The emphasis on communal discernment and collective responsibility is crucial for preventing the dangers associated with authoritarianism in the church. Recognizing the potential for manipulation within a rigid pastor-led structure is essential for fostering a faith community that prioritizes Christ’s teachings over any individual leader’s agenda.
@@1Whipperin yes! You said that so well. Churches are designed in the greek style of hierarchy, not according to the Word. So many true believers who love God have been mislead intentionally. I've had to relearn almost everything, and i went to "good" Bible believing churches all my childhood and adult life. The best thing was memorizing scripture as a child. That has served me well. Today's "churches" have been a very powerful tool of subtle deception. It's been almost impossible to have a conversation with my church-going friends about this.
@@inthetwinklingofaneye Yes, indeed! I agree. The Pastor system is the wolf in sheep's clothing that has a very powerful brainwash on the vast majority of people. As a teenager, I read the Bible on my own and quickly saw that what my pastor taught often contradicted Scripture. This led me from one pastor system to another, not realizing the true answer lay in Matthew 23:8-12, where Jesus clearly commands against titles among believers. This command must be taken seriously. Though some pastors may offer good teaching, they ultimately redirect our focus toward themselves rather than encouraging the "one another" fellowship Christ intended. It’s not a minor issue or mere mistake; it undermines the very essence of what the Church should be. Avoid anyone claiming any titles among the brethren.
Plymouth brethren have held what we call “reading meetings” since our beginning back in the 1830s. Brethren sit in a circle, a passage is read from the Bible, prayer for help from the Holy Spirit is made, discussion among the brethren is held, the sisters listen and read along in silence, the saints are edified. What this requires is that the brethren must be familiar with their Bible. Otherwise you will get long periods of “dead air” or the domination of one who is learned.
But anybody can get up and read suddenly, with periods of silence, without any structure, and only a few elders would be actually allowed to do so, and they separate women from men, even spouses, so it's pretty wrong still because the Bible says let all things be done decently and in order and also what God has joined together let no man put asunder... Sometimes they even just read a line from a hymn book, not even elaborating on a good portion of SCRIPTURE.
@@scripturalhorizonskjv, What is wrong with following the order of assembly gathering as outlined by the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 14? Since we do so, we are allowing the Holy Spirit to be the Director of proceedings. That was Jesus' intent when He said to the disciples that He (the Holy Spirit) would lead you into all truth. Also, that He would not speak of Himself but He would speak of Me. Christ is the focus of gathering. All else is secondary.
@@Saratogan I was invited one Wednesday to an assembly in some government building (I guess as usual for any denomination) with 80% singing and 20% something else, and only 2-3 elders were getting up reading random sentences sometimes not even from scripture. And women separated from men, even spouses ! I asked my elderly friend if I could talk also but he gently denied my right and ability and calling perhaps to express myself as well with the scripture in the assembly. The only structure is the randomness of some socially accepted elderly people, and a quick prayer time when you have to when they say all the congregation have to (prayer is something very personal). I was also casually denied to partake in the ordinance of the memorial of the body of Christ when they offered the bread and (hopefully) grape juice to a few selected elders only...
Unlike us, they probably understood their faith as an extension of their lives but with a new and different understanding of that life rather than something that had to be expressed religiously. I think they grasped what Jesus really meant when He told the Samaritan woman in John 4, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.” When we were saved in the early 70’s in the so-called “Jesus Movement “, it was what we understood and our lives were not a rebellion against the church thing but a reaction against it. We understood why it was unnecessary and ineffective. We didn’t think it evil, just an inaccurate expression of faith.
I know in their culture women were viewed a certain way and it was shameful for them to speak in church. Do you see that as the culture back then and in our present culture we are free to all join the teaching, sharing a hymn, song, encouragement, etc? Or do you feel women should stay silent?
Speaking for myself, I think that it was the local culture that perceived it as shameful for women to speak in an assembly. Our local culture would perceive it as shameful to silence women from speaking in assembly. Some will strongly disagree with me. But I ask, "Do you require women to be veiled?" (1 Cor 11:2-16) "Do you 'greet one another with a holy kiss'?" (1 Cor 16:22; Rom 16:16; 2 Cor 13:12; 1 Thess 5:26; 1 Pet 5:14). Do you require women to not wear braids or jewelry (1 Tim 2:9; 1 Pet 3:3)? I think the prominent commands to love one another (Rom 13:8), accept one another (Rom 15:7), and bear with one another (Eph 4:2), coupled with Paul's ideal that "there is neither male nor female" in Christ (Gal 3:28), should dominate our approach to this.
Thank you this is so eye opening. I’m a new believer looking to understand the Bible more. I have a question in Timothy Paul talks about women not teaching men or having authority over men. How would this work in a house group where we are supposed to edify one another through teaching and such? Does that mean women are silent while the men teach and get edified that way?
So glad to see your channel after you were interviewed by ithinkbiblically. Is anyone familiar with The Local Church founded by Watchman Nee & Witness Lee in the '50s? They meet in homes in "The Church in ", just like the epistles written to "the church in Ephesus", etc. And they have a plurality of elders guding their meetings. I met with them for several months until i realized it was cultish and net several ex-members who were with Witness Lee olanting churces across America in the '70s. Then i read Frank Viola's books and desire only to meet in homes.
My videos certainly have some similarities with Viola's book. But that book has some fundamental problems. I refer you to Ben Witherington, a qualified New Testament scholar, who has written three extensive negative reviews of the Pagan Christianity book. Part 1 is here: benwitherington.blogspot.com/2008/06/pagan-christianty-by-george-barna-and.html. Part 2 is here: benwitherington.blogspot.com/2008/07/pagan-christianityreview-part-two.html. Part 3 is here: benwitherington.blogspot.com/2008/07/pagan-christianityreview-part-three.html. In my view, Witherington's criticisms are largely valid. Yet, even if only 40% of Viola's claims are true, the modern church needs to rethink the origins of its meeting practices, which I have attempted to do in my dissertation and my videos.
Hi Tom, I really enjoyed your discussion with James Early tonight and you said that you had a video called "What do we do now?" or something like that...however, I can't find that one on your channel. I am so interested in that as I am in a small group of people who are looking deeply into how we re-imagine our church services. I also wasn't able to make an email go through on your website contact form. So I hope you read this. Thank you
I think I am like all of us in that we have sensed there is something innately wrong about church but just not sure what. Well, after listening to Dr. Tom, I think we at least feel somewhat vindicated in our concerns. Prior to listening to Dr. Tom, I had done some minimal research into Synagogues and when did they start up. I have heard from the Catholics and others that the church "method" was originally designed around the synagogue "method" of their meetings. Where and when did the synagogue come from? That is for another topic that hasn't been explored to the end either. But today, we have the church and that is our problem now. And we have the Scripture and historical background that Dr. Tom has researched to help us figure out how to fix this. On today's topic of preaching sermons. I haven't seen any pastor or preacher do this well since Charles Spurgeon which is well over a hundred years now. Whether you do it once a week or 3 times a week, preaching sermons opens up a whole can of worms. I would say that this system "forces" preachers and pastors to lie to their parishioners each week. They are 'forced' to come up with stories and illustrations that will 'entertain' the audience so the audience continues to listen. And I say "lie" here because how is it possible to come up with 50 to 150 stories that illustrate the passages without lying? Nobody has that many "life experiences" to cover every single passage each week for 2 to 3 years. And if they try to use the same illustration more than once, the people will be upset and so it is also a people problem. It really is about entertainment too because most people leave the sermons and never have a clue what it was about almost immediately upon leaving. So in my opinion, it seems to force pastors to SIN and also the congregation SINS in their desire to be entertained by these stories and illustrations. How do we fix this perpetual lying where the people require the pastor to lie to them every week by making up a new story out of thin air?
Hi Kevin. It's good to hear from you again. You raise good questions. I think that most pastors don't "lie" in their sermons. But it is indeed a major challenge to force any human being to develop a compelling message every single week. As I state in the video, it's counterproductive to silence the vast resources of wisdom and insight that lie dormant within the members of every congregation every week.
Agreed re: the "stories" the preachers are encouraged to tell. They often have little to do with a selected scripture, & are intended to find a way to "apply" the scriptures to our lives today. That is a very misleading approach to the scriptures, b/c it ignores the 1st audience perspective that is required when studying the scriptures. It will only apply to us today if that same condition of the 1st century AD is still applicable. The reader must understand that the scriptures were written centuries ago. They are for our understanding, but many of them were specific to that generation of the 1st century AD.
@@ginaadamo2499 Yes, that is true to some degree but I believe that people are the same today as we were 2000 years ago with 2 minor differences. One is technology and access to information. Two is that the culture 2000 years ago didn't have a Science that was bent on confusing the people about the reality of God. I don't agree that the reader needs understand that the scriptures were written centuries ago. Truly, the only foundation we have today is the belief that the scriptures have been preserved for us throughout the ages. Secondly, that God's Plan of Salvation, the Gospel, is simple enough that children can understand. It is simple enough that people with low IQs can understand. That God would not deter even the least among us to the knowledge and understanding of the scriptures. That is why I really press the preachers hard and the pastors hard. Given the first two are correct, as I believe, then confusion of the people can only come from diluting God's doctrines with Man's doctrines. God's doctrines are perfect and Man's doctrines add only confusion. My journey down this road started after many, many years of hearing preachers and pastors claiming that Christians are hypocrites. No, it is entirely impossible for a Christian to be a hypocrite. That is so false. They are totally disjoint from each other. And I often hear even the male preachers bashing men from the pulpit. Even joking about being anti-family is not good. Not from the pulpits. When you are bashing men from the pulpits you are attacking God. Because men are God's perfect creation. So many, many years of hearing these strange teachings from the pulpits has lead me to wonder what else do these pastors and preachers teach that goes against God and goes to confusing the people. And as I have matured, I have realized that every sermon I hear preached today in any denomination has at least some sprinkling of Man's Doctrines! And that is alarming to me. I like the idea of 1st century church and eliminating the "sermons' and the "vertical church structure" as it would help to prevent confusion and at least Man's Doctrines. Because even though confusion and Man's Doctrines will try to invade, they just do not hold up to active reason and understanding of scriptures. You know how we speak badly about the public universities and how that the professors only regurgitate the same words they hear from other professors. Ultimately writing books and papers with strange ideas that only come from university circles. Well, that same thing is happening to Bible colleges and Seminaries. But these 'strange' ideas are what we Christians call Man's doctrines and they eventually get incorporated into the local churches and we have pastors and preachers proudly supporting their institutions over the "throne of God" and that is too dangerous for me to think of. But to the point, I would not necessarily say an understanding of life 2000 years ago is a problem for "readers" of the scriptures. But it is a problem for scholars who conjure up strange ideas and argue vain arguments all to the confusion of the people. The people will not be confused otherwise and I believe that is a promise of God. God is not the author of confusion.
@@kevinerose Hi Kevin, I have much simpatico with what you say, but I disagree when you say we don't need to know the scriptures were written at least 2000 years ago. I disagree because although it is true that people are largely the same, it is paradoxically also true that we're not. And our contexts have so many differences from the people that received the letters at Colossae or Thessalonica or read the gospels of Mark or the first people that would have a copy of "O Great Theophilus"'s copy of Luke and Acts etc. That all said, there is so much of scripture that makes sense once one is aware of the context of what caused the document to be written and who received it - equally, there are some things that simply will never make sense. But here's a thing: perhaps that doesn't really matter as much as we like to make it matter. The great thrust of the NT instructions and insights point not to reading scripture, but to being filled and led by the Holy Spirit. When believers are led by the Spirit, genuine "one-anothering" takes place. When everything is "scripture-led," we end up with where we are today. Because some people naturally love to read, some naturally do not. But no one has a dictatorial hold on the Spirit. Like the wind, he comes from where he comes and goes where he's going. Much of the writing we see in the letters can really be categorized as letters written to people learning how to be led by the Spirit of God. People learning to get out of the way and let the Spirit do his thing so that everyone can serve one another, love one another and contribute to each other's well-being and development. It is entirely significant that when Barnabus and Paul were planting churches, they didn't stay in some places long at all. Yet when they went back to see how things were, they found that the disciples they'd seen converted had moved forward in Christ to the extent that they were able to ratify elders. Even if one uses the word "appointed" the fact still remains that there had to be people to appoint. When they left the places they had planted churches in, they didn't leave anyone behind to guide the people. So how did those people develop ? By the Holy Spirit. Now, this doesn't mean that the churches weren't without their problems. But it does mean that they had a responsibility to thrash out matters and that they had to work out how and when the Spirit of God was leading them. Paul, Peter, James, Jude and the writers of the 3 "Johns" and Hebrews aren't laying out exactly what should be done every time the church met, they are reminders of what they've already taught, all geared towards believers submitting to one another through the Holy Spirit. But contexts are nonetheless, important.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
I’ll give my two cents in love. We need to understand that we’re at church was never in the original. I don’t know if you went over this in a video from I’m only 12 minutes in, but Jesus would use the word ecclesia. It’s actually a government word we have made this thing a religion When we should be functioning in a kingdom.
Hello from Greece again! As you know, I agree with you so much. But what about Ephesians 4: 11,12. It seems like a monologue from those who have the gifts (prophets, pastors etc) towards the saints to perfect them for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. May be we have to levels hear. Yes, the saints will make the work of ministry one another, but the others (teachers, prophets, evangelists etc) have the authority to do sermons (for 30 minutes or one hour may be) toward them, a kind of seminars. What can we say about this? Have we the one anothering formula here? They don't preach but they edify here. Thank you for your answer.
I love Greece! I'm not saying that 30-minute or 60-minute messages must be outlawed. Paul certainly talked for a long time at Troas (Acts 20-7-9). But when we're expecting 100% of our edification to come from lengthy "sermons," I don't think our people will grow very much. People need to interact and engage with a message in order to assimilate it and grow from it.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
The New Testament depiction of church services is one that combines horizontal and vertical elements. The horizontal elements include preaching, teaching and Scripture reading and are all depicted as taking place in congregational settings. See, for example, Matthew 4:24; 9:35; Acts 11:26; 13:5, 14-41, 44; 14:27; 15:1, 21; 16:14; 17:2-3, 11-12; 18:5-11, 24-26; 19:8-10; 20:7, 20-21; 28:28-31; Romans 1:25; 16:25; 1 Corinthians 4:17; 14:6, etc. Indeed, the whole book of Hebrews is a homily. The vertical elements include prayer, prophecy, praises & hymns sung to God, and are all depicted as taking place in congregational settings. See, for example, Matthew 21:13; Mark 11:17; Luke 2:36-37; 19:46; Acts 1:24; 2:1, 42; 14:23; 16:13, 16; 21:4, 11; 1 Corinthians 14:2-5, 15-16, 22-32; Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 1:3, etc.
The Didache, written in the first century by the first Christian assembly of church leaders, expresses how we are to worship in our assemblies. Most scholars assess the didache pre dates many of the NT Scriptures. It’s a fascinating document!
@@AudreyZIB Some perhaps but many do think so. I believe it was found in Constantinople. I viewed a video about it a while back and couldn’t help but see a connection to what the earliest church historian Josephus wrote as reported by J N D Kelly.
Interesting stuff. I can’t say I agree with every conclusion, there are scriptures that stand out as counterpoints to a few of the ideas- but so far it’s offering some great points of reflection to consider, and in a balanced way.
I came to these same conclusions years ago. It’s difficult to change traditions so ingrained concerning the “worship service,” and the vocational “pastor.” I am part of a church that averages around 275 on Sunday mornings, and it has a consistent and typical service. I just see it as an opportunity to meet new believers and maybe meet in smaller less formal groups for bible study or fellowship.
I’m hearing what your saying but I’m not getting what I am coming for. You said you study the early Christians… all I see here is a reinterpretation of the NT text. I’ve read all of the ante nicean writings…. I’m not seeing this. If all you’re saying is that you should have more than one speaker I can say amen. Paul tells Timothy to teach, exhort and rebuke. That sounds like a teaching office
Justin Martyr is writing from the perspective of Rome in the mid-second century, over 100 years after the birth of Christianity. My focus was the first-century Christian writings that are regarded as authoritative throughout Christendom. No one regards Justin as authoritative. My research indicates that church practices had evolved in several unproductive ways by Justin's time.
@ Ok fair enough. So you wouldn’t use tertullians descriptions of the church in Carthage either since it’s even later. Curious, which extra canonical first century Christian writings do you find helpful toward that end?
@@danielandmariewalter All extra-canonical writings are helpful toward tracing the status of Christianity at that time and place. None of them are helpful in determining apostolic first-century directives and practice.
@@tomwadsworth wow that’s quite a statement. Your selection of helpful information is pretty small then. I was blessed to read the patient ferment of the early church. I found it the first time I encountered the early church as truly strange and different (in a good way) instead of seeing how we mine the early church to confirm our own presuppositions.
Hi Tom, The biggest issue i have is getting my head around the different doctrines taught, many are of pagan origin. This exists today in the churches, and I have to overlook it when taught from the platform, If you look at the history of Christianity it was bad and good they killed during inquisitions for example, yet we enjoy the platform in the west that was built by the blood of Christians despite they believed false things. It seems like a contradiction that God could never support. Yet this is what Christians accomplished : For example, the kingdom teachings preached by the church elevated brutish standards of morality, halted infanticide, enhanced human life, emancipated women, abolished slavery, inspired charities and relief organisations, created hospitals, ambulance health care, police, established orphanages, founded schools, gave us a measure of law and order and peace in the west all because of the spread of Christianity which is the spread of the Kingdom of the heavens. How to reconcile this in our heads is beyond me at the moment. Are you able to shed any light on this?
No. 1. The majority of pew listeners will not EVER join the small groups. The may try it briefly and then quit. 2. The two kinds of "meeting together" contradict each other. One way communication by one man VS One another communication by all. 3. God SPECIFIES "ONE ANOTHER" COMMUNICATIon for "meeting together" Hebrews 10:24-25; 1 Cor. 14:26-end. 4. The pulpit and pew ritual FORCES believers to CONSUME 84% of their giving to pay for the hired man and the pulpit building. God's design for "meeting together" can be done so 100% of giving goes BEYOND the givers alleged "needs." 5. Every pulpit and pew building is divided by brand name from ALL THE OTHER gatherings of saints which displays to the lost that God's people are DIVIDED from each other. John 17:20-23 tells us Jesus wants us to show the lost we are "perfectly one" which shows the DEITY OF CHRIST as "perfectly one with the Father." And there is more in everyone's Bible. Clergy will not tell you about it. They usually don't know about it because traditions of men don't want it. Mark 7:13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do."
No. Sooner or later there will be a clash. The two principles actively run against each other. One emphasizes the "top down" approach. The other emphasizes every person taking responsibility and seeing themselves as a real, genuine, functioning priest that cannot hide. They are incompatible. It's nothing to do with the sincerity or niceness of the individuals involved.
Everything you said is very enlightening. A message for our times. May god bring fresh reforms to the church. One word of caution. Do a word study on converts as you did on worship. As you can imagine it’s not a word used very often. They used first fruits.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
About evangelism: If Matthew 28:18-20 only applied to the 12, how then did Jesus promise to be with them as they do it all days till the end of times? Was Jesus saying that those 12 would be living till the end of times? Also, when persecution scattered the church from Jerusalem and the believers Who were scattered went and preached the good news where they moved, were they all evangelists? From the way the bible speaks of them, they most probably were ordinary folks, but they went and preached the good news! And had results! And when Jesus told us that this good news of the Kingdom must be preached to all creation before the end comes, who will do it? So our neighbours will have to wait for God to raise an evangelist in our town for them to hear? Or are we not to bring the good news to them (using whatever format we find appropriate)?
Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
It's very difficult to convince people of what you say. I agree with you whole heartedly on all though.
You just described the meetings I've been attending all my 75 years.
.y parents were seeking a more biblical fellowship. When they found it, they were ready.
Your view on not everyone suppose to make disciples is not a biblical one but traditional one. Less than two percent of Christian’s evangelize and the reason they give is the same you did “ that is the job of evangelists” but paul is clear that the role of evangelists is to equip the saints for the ministry
I believe with the persecution coming we need to go back to the early church model .
Hi from Australia, my husband and I have seen the difference of the biblical and modern churches. We decided to start gathering at home in a way that everyone can share and participate. It's being a journey, and I feel the Lord is teaching us His way. For now it's only seven adults and my 12 year old son, who also participates and shares with us, his growth in the Lord has being amazing to watch. This is a very encouraging video to us.
Glory to God for your diligence to "test everything" and obey the scriptures REGARDLESS of others. You will be rewarded.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
As long as you didn’t tear up a church you came out of in the process.
Are u changing homes or just meetup in one?
I have many friends in Australia who have met this way for years. There's likely a meeting in your area.
A hearty AMEN to this! I truly believe the Lord is calling His body back to what was originally intended in the Scriptures. Thank you for speaking on this!
🙏🙏🤍
Amen 🙏🙌
Have you ever heard of the "SERVMON" on the Mount, Matthew 5, 6 & 7 ; Our LORD Jesus, PREACHED the greatest "SERVMON" every PREACHED; the very idea of a SERVMON, means to DELIVER, message, to PREACH that which has been prepared, and the LORD Jesus PREACHED ONLY THAT WHICH WAS PREPARED BY HIS HEAVENLY FATHER FOR HIM TO SAY. As the LORD Himself confessed, speaking ONLY those things which his FATHER had given / prepared ; Matthew 20: 23 / John 8 : 28 / 12: 50 / consider also Colossians 1: 25
!OMG! Your explanation of NT evangelization just removed a giant weight from my shoulders! God is clearly using you, Dr. Tom. TYSM!
Me too!
Yes!! And I believe just in time for the return and separation of sheep and goats.
@elizabeth5753 "!OMG! Your explanation of NT evangelization just removed a giant weight from my shoulders! "
You just blasphemed.
So you have heard the good news and have been saved, and your neighbours will have to wait for God to raise an "evangelist" to preach to them while you enjoy the cosiness of your comfort zone?
The believers Who were persecuted and left Jerusalem and preached wherever they went, were they all evangelists???
@elizabeth5753 "!OMG! "
"Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. " (Exod 20:7, KJV)
Thank you! This has been weighing heavily on my heart the past year. My most edifying time reading the scriptures has been when my teenage son and I read through scripture every evening. His profound questions were ones I didn’t consider before and gave us opportunity to investigate together. My heart was full.
I was at a Messianic church and they teach within. I would love to see Hebrew schools within churches and “Yeshiva’s” where 2 or 3 gather to read the Word together and discuss. How wonderful would that be!
Love you brothers and sisters in Christ!
The Church is truly longing for a "Return".
Many people have been walking away from the church system we've created and seeking something genuine, something real, something true.
I think this whole rethinking of how to return to edifying gatherings is truly "the Way" that we have wandered from.
Praying for continued success in your efforts for the Lord and His Bride!
There is a Body of Christ.
This Body had to be edifyed.
There was no bride in the early church teaching.
@@AlexanderosD so very true. And if we can you look outside of our inner circle of believers, we can see how disillusion people are, who have always seen, and even experience the kind of over bearing and divisive practices of what I will call, “church American style”. There needs to be more of a sense of reckoning and confession In main stream Christianity that could very well lead to a broader revival in our country.
How do you find like-minded Christians that see the institutional church as unbiblical. We've wanted it forever, but not sure how to find it. I talk with friends about it & they seem to agree but remain in the church system
@@megnlu
Perhaps you will never find a like minded soul. However you have the holy Spirit and a bible and TH-cam.
All help you need is In Christ. Christ is the truth. And Christ will never forsake you. Be happy when they cast you out of the camp. You do not need the camp. That is at least my experience.
@@megnluI’m wondering the same thing. I go to a church regularly as some weeks it’s my only contact with other Christians.
Good stuff. This topic has become my main focus for a few years. People should pray the night before assembling, of how Jesus wants to use them the next day. Church needs to be a place of participation and not just sitting and watching a few people run “a show” that pretty much repeats the next week.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
" People should pray the night before assembling, of how Jesus wants to use them the next day:
They should use ALL WEEK is their preparation for "meeting together."
Hebrews 10:24-25
24 And LET US (all of us)
CONSIDER HOW (prepare in advance)
to stir up ONE ANOTHER (opposite of a sermon)
to LOVE AND GOOD WORKS, (far beyond cerebral knowledge)
25 not neglecting to MEET TOGETHER,
as is the habit of some, (as the habit of 99% of sermon listeners)
but encouraging ONE ANOTHER, (again, mutual participation by all)
and ALL THE MORE (beyond one service)
as you see the Day drawing near.
Greetings Tom from Western Australia. I find what you are saying here takes me back to when I first met my wife. She had become a believer in a Plymouth Brethren church in West London. What you are describing was part of the morning meeting in this assembly (That's what the described their meetings, assembly). Around the celebration of breaking of bread each male (women were not allowed to contribute) could do exactly what you describe. Each would contribute to the sharing of scripture and what would build up the assembly of believers. The elders here were very ordinary men in their occupations but exceptional men in their spiritual maturity. One was a garbage collector another a telephone engineer and others simple workers. I have never come across such Godly men. I love what you are saying because I have seen it work and been in church groups where each can contribute.
Yes, this is a description of the open brethren church, no pastor, just elders, sit in a giant circle & every one has a chance to contribute
More great stuff. Can't say enough how much I appreciate your service and commitment to the truths you have discovered regarding the early New Covenant church. I have been sharing my appreciation for you and your work with my local assembly. Thank you for offering this as a reliable resource on the topic!
I that you man of GOD for that word of knowledge and wisdom. As you unpacked the word , I could see my faults in preaching and how the church is set up in today’s world. Thank you and keep spreading this knowledge to whoever has ears to hear, let them hear. God bless you
@@darrylaustin3201 yes, we’ve all been conditioned and schooled to accept the present day representation of church. Be prepared, Jesus confronted the same over bearing influence from the Pharisees, is beginnings will be represented in Confronting modern church with this truth.
Excellent insight into the Word. Thank you Tom. Your clarification has opened my eyes and confirmed my doubts regarding the organized system of Christianity. I'm resolved to pray and seek God for personal direction in this matter.
I am so encouraged by your message. Thank you so much. I have had similar thoughts about organized church practices in modern day and regarding the verses called the Great Commission. What a great relief and comfort to know that I am not alone in my thinking.
I attended and listened and spoke in a "Local Church" where there was an opening passage read and then people were invited to provide whatever they were moved to. And if they weren't moved, they just sat. I could feel a spirit (the Spirit?) move from one to another in perfect harmony, nobody interrupted, everybody knowing when to sit back down to let the next person speak. I can see gatherings with knowledge of the Gifts Paul spoke of being even more effective
We do this each Shabbat , it can be very interesting , [ but ] our pastor had to put some limits on this openness , because some people abused this form of gathering
You are truly blessed. Haven’t found any such church in our community. I live in eastern Pennsylvania. I have been blessed with the gift of exhortation and prophecy, and as you could imagine that has not been well received. My wife and I have been painfully expelled, shunned, gaslit and scornfully shamed. I always was careful to minister the gift given in a private setting, with respect and dignity for the person and the circumstances. The beatitudes come to mind, and yet I consider it a privilege to suffer a similar fate, as our Lord Jesus did in the hands of the Pharisees.
@@Godsglorygarden-v6r The meetings I went to may have been part of the "Local Church" form. Their faithfulness to what they considered how the church was supposed to operate according to Paul and other New Testament references had them allow only one per city (locality) as multiple churches in a place is not mentioned. The problem for me was that it was too far away for me to attend regularly. Plus I had other issues outside of their meetings
I believe 1 Cor 14:26 is misunderstood here:
"How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification."
Paul is not saying that each one should have a psalm or a teaching or a tongue etc. He is criticising them for this. He is saying that all things should be done for edification and that NOT everyone should expect to speak and telling them to be orderly and not chaotic.
A gathering at which every unsuitable speaker who loved the sound of their own voices was wasting the time of the church would not be edifying.
@@roberttwyman432 You make a valid point, or perhaps another possibility. While there is a redundancy to seek unity in like mindedness From God’s word (not the steamroller, crushing out, so-called order established in contemporary churches), the valid need is that the movement of God spirit among his people is redundantly edified through his word. Gifts such as prophetic, apostle, (contemporary vision , or admonishment), or all of the many other gifts should gain an insight and perspective, valued by all. Exhortation should always be attempted to be private however, sometimes demands to be made public to the congregation. Is it possible that if exhortation wasn’t crushed out of the church, we wouldn’t have the problems in church that we have today? Tragically, we often times compare our own evil or wicked culture and contemporary manners and try to apply it to God’s word that was identifying with the humbly Pius ,Jesus in the flesh, people of the Bible.
My brother, this is one of the most informative videos i have listened to on this subject .may GOD bless you tremendously. 🙏
Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
Thanks for all the work and research you've done and are sharing here. You've really nailed it on all points and have a way of explaining it at laymen's level.
My grief of losing both my sister and brother in 10 months, has had me begging the Lord to send me a new interest. I have been in church all 68 years. Attended women’s Bible study, couples Bible study and personal on line study. THANK YOU FOR CLEARING UP THE HISTORICAL MYSTERY ON HOW WE GOT HERE‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️. For last year I have been attending Home Churcg group studying TORAH plus OT & NT
I HAVE COME ALIVE IN THE SPIRIT. Learning GODS LAWS for HIS PEOPLE and those of us in branch grafted into HIS FAMILY. Praise God for your study and teaching others 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼💙💙💙🎶🎶🎉🎉
Thank you for your insights into early church life.. At the age of 38 my hubby and I because of a trauma that was going on in our family we both at the same time had a visitation by the Holy Spirit of the Living God that opened our eyes to the revelation of God...Up until that point there was no way that we could ever have believed in there being a God out there somewhere as we were both not interested. But upon this happening our lives were completely turned upside down. A few months later we had an opportunity to have been able to set ourselves up for life with a nice home and money in the bank. But we became aware that we had a very important decision to make, do we go down that road or do we choose to build our riches in God's Kingdom???? And we chose to build our riches in God. Now that was not an easy desion as the years went by, but if ever there was a doubt we gently heard the Lord remind us of what we agreed to do all those years ago. And since that one time of doubt we have never wavered off this path. We did go to a church for a short time but realised that it was religion and not life so walked away and as we are now both 85 have had the most amazing life in God. We live in Perth Australia and was wondering what cities or towns that had watched your video and also as I'm not clued up on computer was wanting to ask you how are we able to watch that video as I have no idea how to find it. We are on our own at present and we do miss not having fellowship with God's people. Many thanks for your programs as we have watched the whole series that you made. Kind regards Lorna
Great to hear you share this points. Assuring to know I'm not losing my sanity.
I praise our Father in Heaven for using the algorithms to lead me to you...
Blessings from New Zealand :)
I've been stirred in my spirit for quite some time on this matter. I'm 52, raised in the church, lead youth groups, worship teams etc and after it all...
Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher, vanity of vanities! All is vanity. Eccl 1:2
We had our vision Sunday yesterday and it was much of the same. Enlisting willing volunteers into training/ leadership programmes.
Where is the one to one discipleship as you said? where's the bringing up the next generation?
I continuously ask Holy Spirit to check my heart and not let any judgement or bittier root be planted as I travail over this matter.
With your teaching, I just sat back and drank it in.
I will certainly listen to your other posts as I'm now confident I've stumbled upon a deep well of blessing.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
It is not by chance that so many have tuned into your teachings at this point in time. The world is rapidly changing and the inadequacy of the current system became glaringly obvious to many in 2020. People are questioning the traditional church organisation and have been earnestly seeking a meaningful way forward. When your seventh teaching unexpectedly popped up on my feed it was an answer to a prayer. It was eye opening and exciting. The Lord has His ways and is preparing us for what is to come. Thank you for reinforcing and expanding with another inspirational teaching. God Bless you.
I could not agree more with this post. I was definitely having questions and praying about are “worship services” and these videos have been an answer to prayer…
@@shawnsmith4531open your Strong's concordance of the KJV and search for the verses that include both words WORSHIP and MUSICK and tell me who is worshipped with MUSICK.
@@edbrackeen5979 why do you spell music with a K?
@@AudreyZIB that is the original English spelling. Get The KJV bible and do a word search for the verses that has both Worship and Musick in the same verse and you will be amazed with what you find out.
We have been reading the Bible and praying at home for years now and his videos confirmed so much! I've learned so much. That's why churches constantly die or grow then die again and repeat. The way the churches are run that's why!
I 100% agree. When I left my full time job as a Student Minister to become a full time Pastor, I had a few that said that I was more of a teacher than a Preacher. Also, that I wasn't as loud as some of their former pastors. Teaching is the way to go in the local church. Small groups are just as or more important, if not more important, than the Preaching going on.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
You prob. had a sound system.
I enjoy your points. You need to take a closer look at teaching that only some should be able to share their faith. Being an evangelist is one thing, but being equipped to share Jesus with others is at the core of who we are and why we are here. There are many verses which would release everyone from being evangelists, but no verses that would release believers from the responsibility to share their faith to friends and relatives when the opportunity presents itself.
That's not the point he was making. It is clear in the NT writings that we all have a responsibility to share our faith and lives with those that don't know the Lord when the opportunity arises. But we're not all equipped or called to _specifically_ go out and do that. It's nuanced and there's a subtle distinction. Perhaps a better way of putting it is by looking at prophecy. There are specific prophets whose calling is to equip the church in this area, yet it was made clear that we should all seek the gift of prophecy, that is learning to hear from God and relaying what he says. And with this goes the responsibility to weigh and test what a person that prophesies brings.
Not everyone is an evangelist, yet everyone evangelises in one way or another.
I hope that makes some sense !
Our church has been meeting in a home for 20 years. We start off by opening the meeting to participation with someone having an opening thought or maybe a testimony, a burden, a song, a praise and go on from there usually with singing. We spend some time praying and taking the symbols. We take a break after an hour and then we have a teaching from the word. Usually the teaching or message has more depth and usually makes more of an impression than the usual ad lib sharing. The meeting is led but open. We always have a meal after that. We do have evangelist that operate outside the church and they give reports after an outreach.
Isn't there a senior elder who is considered the bishop giving oversight as ordained by God to do so?
Unarguably there should be someone.
@@revvbrowne Christ is the head of the church overall. The word translated "bishop"(in some translations) simply means "overseer". No denomination is able to trace their hierarchy back to the Apostles.
Jesus said there would be no hierarchy in the church:
Mar 10:42 But having called them near, Jesus said to them, You know that The ones seeming to rule the nations lord it over them, and The ones great among them exercise authority over them.
Mar 10:43 But it shall not be so among you...
Here is a list of practices commonly found in modern churches that are not explicitly mandated or described in the New Testament:
1. Pastor-Led Worship Services: In the New Testament, gatherings were typically led by multiple elders or overseers, with no mention of a single pastor having a central role in leading worship or delivering weekly sermons.
2. Marriage Ceremonies: There is no description of formal church-led marriage ceremonies in the New Testament. Marriage is acknowledged as a covenant between a man and a woman, but there are no prescribed rituals or church ceremonies.
3. Church Buildings: The New Testament church primarily gathered in homes (e.g., Acts 2:46; Romans 16:5), not in dedicated church buildings. Purpose-built churches as we know them came centuries later.
4. Tithing as a Requirement: The New Testament does not command Christians to tithe (give 10% of income) to the church. Giving in the New Testament was more focused on generosity and meeting the needs of others (2 Corinthians 9:7).
5. Formal Ordination of Clergy: While there is mention of elders and deacons being appointed, the elaborate ordination processes or titles like "Reverend" or "Bishop" found in many denominations are not described in the New Testament.
6. Worship Bands/Choirs: While music is mentioned (e.g., Colossians 3:16), there is no specific description of organized choirs, worship bands, or formalized praise teams leading congregational singing.
7. Pulpits and Sermon-Centric Gatherings: The New Testament doesn't describe worship services centered around a single sermon or message delivered from a pulpit. Instead, gatherings included teaching, mutual edification, prayer, and fellowship (1 Corinthians 14:26).
8. Sunday as the Primary Worship Day: Although early Christians did meet on the "first day of the week" (Acts 20:7), there is no specific mandate that Sunday must be the main day for worship gatherings, and there is no strict prohibition against meeting on other days.
9. Youth Programs/Children's Ministries: The New Testament does not mention separate ministries for children, youth, or other age groups. Families were generally expected to worship and learn together.
10. Church Membership Rolls: There is no mention of formal church membership rolls or processes for joining or leaving a local church in the New Testament.
11. Alter Calls: The New Testament does not describe the modern practice of altar calls, where individuals come forward to accept Christ during a service.
12. Denominational Structures: Denominations and their specific governing structures are not found in the New Testament. The early church was unified in its beliefs but decentralized in terms of specific church governance.
13. Programs and Committees: Organized programs like Sunday schools, outreach programs, or committees to handle church affairs (common in modern churches) are not described in the New Testament.
14. Paid Clergy: While "the worker is worthy of his wages" (1 Timothy 5:18) is sometimes cited in support of paying pastors, there is no specific command or formal system in the New Testament regarding full-time salaried positions for church leaders.
15. Holiday Celebrations: Christian celebrations such as Christmas and Easter, while they commemorate important events in Christian theology, are not mentioned in the New Testament. These celebrations arose much later in church history.
16. Baptism Classes: In the New Testament, people were often baptized immediately after believing (e.g., Acts 8:36-38), with no mention of formalized instruction classes prior to baptism.
17. Confirmation or First Communion: These formal rites of passage found in some Christian traditions are not described in the New Testament.
18. Theological Seminaries: While there is clear emphasis on teaching and discipleship in the New Testament, formal theological schools or seminaries are not mentioned.
19. Sacramental View of Communion: While the New Testament commands the breaking of bread in remembrance of Christ (Luke 22:19), it doesn't describe the elaborate sacramental system found in many modern churches, particularly in Catholic and Orthodox traditions.
20. Church Fundraising Events: Events like bake sales, car washes, or other fundraising activities for church projects are not mentioned in the New Testament.
21. Confession to a Priest/Pastor: The practice of confessing sins to a priest or pastor for absolution is not mandated in the New Testament. Confession is encouraged as a personal act between the individual and God (1 John 1:9), and mutual confession among believers is mentioned (James 5:16), but not in a formalized priestly setting.
These practices, while often integral to modern church life, developed over time through tradition and cultural influence. The New Testament's focus is on mutual edification, fellowship, discipleship, and life lived in the Spirit, rather than on formal structures or rituals.
Mm, unity of belief may be overstated, but mostly a solid list.
Really good list. Thanks for sharing.
This is a very long list, isn’t it, of man-made features of contemporary church practice that are NON-BIBLICAL and that are not found in the early church. When pastors stand in front of people at their meetings and, in prayer before God, ask for revival, they are usually LYING, because, patently, they fundamentally have NO DESIRE TO CHANGE WHATSOEVER.
Christians expect non-Christians to engage with truth and repent, but astoundingly, one consistent feature of many so-called Christians is that they have ABSOLUTELY NO DESIRE TO HEAR THE TRUTH.
John Milton lamented the lack of true shepherds in the church in his poem, ‘Lycidas,’ which is as relevant today as it was back in 1637.
Liked comment how can i save it to share thanks
@@AOK839 copy
I completely agree with everything you are saying. I have felt this way for a few years now. It started quite a few years back when I was not willing or had any desire anymore to let anyone prophesy over me or pray over me because I felt I could receive everything I needed by going directly before the throne. a couple of years ago, I felt that I was not going to go to church anymore to hear someone preach for an hour because that is not what I was after: to listen to someone’s ‘great revelation ‘from the Lord. As you said, I have felt that the body has been mistreated and has been treated as a second class citizen in the church there were times that I actually was so sensitive to this whole treatment of the body by the ministers in the church that I even felt a sense of shame, and the body was being shamed and put down. I feel very greased by the way services are being conducted today even in spirit filled churches.
I left organized religion years ago. As an evangelist, I have been filling in for my brother since he's been sick. The lack of knowledge, wisdom, understanding, or desire for God in the "church" is jaw-dropping. I don't believe hardly anyone opens a Bible anymore.
I agree and I haven’t attended a church in a long time.. all I know of have departed from truth into grievous error in one way or another
Ditto
I grew up in charismatic churches, and one day as I was feeling like a particular low-life, as a Christian, comparing myself to others there, the Lord spoke to me and told me I was perfectly capable of understanding my Bible for myself. He made it clear we depend far too much on what they tell us. A whole lot of error. Once I started reading and seeking His guidance, the whole world changed for me. I still ended up going through some dark stuff, from a few leaders, from 3 different churches, but now I know why. I don't go anymore. Partly because I see what wolves they can be. Partly because these people have slandered me in my hometown, among their fellow church leaders/friends. That's not church. Those are cults.
funny i know a guy that goes by JW who is filling in preaching for his sick brother. Awesome
Outstanding, thought provoking and mind-blowing talk.
Greetings from Northern France!
We attend a Messianic fellowship that meets on the seventh day Sabbath . We read the Torah each week and of course the later Scriptures . We have an open dialogue [ conversation \ discussion ] just as this man is talking about , And these forms of meetings are wonderful , we as a fellowship learn so much and our minds are quickened made alive with this kind of stimulus . ''Now'' here is an issue , some people will take ''advantage'' of this kind gathering , so our pastor had to put some order to this and put up on the screen the limitations to how long you can speak and how many times you could speak . You learn so much more by gathering this way , and the emphasis [ importance \ prominence ] is '' Not '' on the pastor " but ' on the scriptures !
where is this congregation located?
I love this. I have been exploring the idea of Sabbath day for gatherings, but we are still in first day gatherings. My current thought is every day is a great day to get together and be church together. I have wondered if the early church started meeting on the first day because they were trying to minister in the synagogues on the Sabbath, and because Jesus was first seen by people after his resurrection on the first day. Was that the custom long before politicians decided that “sun”day was the proper day to celebrate?
@@johnthomley1657 In Moses Lake . Washington
@@bitrudder3792 You can do your research about the Sabbath if your serious . Yes everyday is a good day to meet to worship . But God himself blessed the 7th day , Jesus Yeshua observed the 7th day . Do a really good research on the Sabbath it's up to you and you alone to figure this out . Blessings
@@bitrudder3792 When was the Sabbath established? CREATION. Sabbath exist FOR YOUR WELL BEING. As a BELIEVER you HAVE to come to the place to search for TRUTH. You must be WILLING to ask God to reveal Truth in his WORD to you. When you do that, DO NOT be shocked that some things we assume are okay in truth are not okay. What day a person goes to church doesnt matter. SABBATH is SATURDAY, the seventh day what is IMPORTANT about the Sabbath is RESTING from work spending the day with your FAMILY being present and relaxing (REST) God set that PARTICULAR DAY (WE DONT CHOOSE WHICH DAY ITS SATURDAY) sanctified it, SET IT APART and made it holy. THAT in and of itself is reason enough to obey Gods command to REST
Devon 🇬🇧. Great study! Really challenging to our long-held conceptions. I used to go to a church many years ago where every Sunday they preached a 'gospel sermon' to a roomful of Christians! Why? There were never any visitors. It just got boring and eventually we left when we moved house.
Hi Tom, I am currently working on my Doctoral Program on Church Based Theological Education in context of early Apostolic Model which is way different from our contemporary model. Thanks for producing these videos, bringing light to these profound insights. In my studies I am going through these Paradigmitic core issues and to address them in my DMin dissertation.
If you'd like a copy of my dissertation for your research, contact me at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
This is the purest form of worship that you go to a widow's and orphans house with eyes to see where they need help in their distress...the better translation of "This is pure and undefiled (the same word repeated) religion (the word is worship) that you visit (going with eyes to see not chatting and having coffee) a widow and orphan in their distress.
Pastors typically learn a few ideas from the Bible during their seminary training. After that, they regurgitate their seminary doctrines or preach from a book they've read. Often, several men in the congregation are wiser than the pastor, with God-given knowledge of the Bible greater than the pastor because of their willingness to entertain ideas beyond the rigid dogma taught at seminary. But, here's the catch. The denominations will not allow the Bible to speak lest it invalidate some or all of their beliefs formed out of denomination tradition or misapplication of Scripture.
So, the church is not protecting "The Truth" by denying men in the congregation the right to speak; it is protecting its traditions and doctrines from biblical scrutiny. The truth of the Bible died a long while ago, if it ever existed, in most churches. All that is left is a pastor/assistant pastor parroting their denomination's doctrines yielding a congregation consisting of spiritually feeble or entirely unspiritually motivated (non-Christians) sitting each week enduring 45 minutes of sermonizing as they await lunchtime and their opportunity to share gossip and argue about sports.
It's a shame that spiritual truth gleaned from the Bible by Christ-minded men in the church is despised and considered "risky" or "prone to error" while the pastor rambles on teaching unbiblical ideas each Sunday to a half-asleep congregation that is mostly, if not all, spiritually dead. Why would the Spirit of God that enlightens true Christians remain in a church that loathes truth and teaches the doctrines of men? Genuine Christians would not, leaving behind only the straw and stubble. The result of the current approach to preaching is to produce a white-washed sepulcher of a church that looks attractive and stately externally but is full of the spiritual dead.
This.
Spot on.. life for a true discerning child of God is not for the faint of heart in this world full of deception
This resonated with me. Thanks.
Book: pagan christianity
Wow, this.
Great video thanks, been frustrated with church recently as I actually find it boring doing the same thing over and over. And yes the people become docile as they even know what's going to happen, so when we start to pray in the begging of the service the lack serious motivation to even open their mouths.
This video has helped me understand a lot of what I was feeling thank you ❤
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
This 'teaching' : ) is life changing. I am still digesting it all... so good, so vital, so timely.
Ive come to the SAME understanding that not everyone is called to be an evangelist and the context of the great commission is straight the the 12 for the reasons you shared. I completely agree it’s very discouraging for many that the church teaches the way it does in this topic.
How refreshing to see another person say this. I have gone down a road of returning to the OT and really seeing what being obedient is. No one teaches obedience anymore. In fact we hate that word. One thing I have learned is bout 150 ish AD things began to creep into the church. About 300 ish AD it REALLY CHANGED. Constantine took over and the rest is history. It has not been the same since. Although, I keep finding pockets of people who have come to the same conclusion. And I'm finding more everyday. No one taught them this. It is like God has suddenly woken a few people up and continues to do so with increasing speed. Thank you for posting this. Today's church has become one of two things. It is either a Rock Concert with a watered down touchy feely "we are all alright" message. OR it is old and stale and full of old people in suits and ties type dress that thinks the younger people have lost their minds. There is not much in-between Neither is ok.
Don't overstate your point. "No one teaches obedience anymore" is simply not true, though you are, of course, correct that it is not a popular message for many. At the church I go to, obedience is frequently mentioned.
Been following you only for a little time, yet another excellent presentation!
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Very thoughtful and thought provoking, but also quite discouraging as I live in rural England and don’t know of a single person near me who would even want to discuss such ideas.
@@jttj742 you don’t know the Quakers in England.
You might find a few people from this group of Jesus’ followers who are in a similar situation and create a Zoom group for this purpose! The Holy Spirit is not troubled by geographical distance!
@@patricebeebe9649I find it hard to believe that a zoom meeting can replace the local church.
@@jttj742for one thing, they have disappeared down the DEI rabbit hole, affirming same sex marriage etc. . Many British Christians would question whether the Quakers are still a truly Christian group.
We live in wiltshire and feel the same
Thank you so much for this and boldness of the truth.
The Holy Spirit teaches me many things and I often get discouraged because not being surrounded by any with understanding, maturity, and power of discernment.
God is good! I’m grateful to know that Christ truly does have a body left in this world. God bless you with strength to keep going and standing for truth.🙏
I understand a way or open form of meeting, that's led by the Spirit and follows the way Paul instructed us to meet in his epistles. If anyone wants to meet or fellowship in Northeast Kansas, please let me know.
God Bless!
This theological perspective on congregational preaching is both startling and refreshing. Thanks for sharing.
I just found a church that started out as a home church and has many elements of that, but still has a sermon - and I'm trying to be tolerant because the people are awesome. The sermon is an exercise in boredom... I don't want to create division. If it becomes too tedious, I will leave... I'm most interested in the Bible study and the interactions with other believers.... they have open prayer for each other which I think is vital. Thank you for being a Luther and nailing your observations to the church door!
Excellent Presentation and accurately revealed through scripture and the Spirit
Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
Thank you for posting this. I've pondered this very thought for a very long time. So much of what I see in churches doesn't seem at all what We see in Acts. I hate that we build these giant edifices to hold hundreds of people. As you said, there is no "one anothering" I had a friend years ago whom I agreed to meet in the lobby of her mega church. I was horrified as masses of people flocked by me in an effort to quickly leave. Where was the fellowship? Even much smaller churches cannot support one anothering because they are built around programs not people. I often think of how Christians in persecuted countries might gather together. The NT churches were instructed to not forsake the gathering of themselves together. Somehow I am rather doubting that they believed it meant gather all together religiously in one large space once or twice a week to hear someone speak for an hour. I'm thinking it probably meant more of, "Hey, let's get together on such a day and talk about Jesus, while we have share a meal together, and encourage one another. And as for the lack of perspective, is it any wonder that so many preachers have almost a cultic like following. Some churches give so much power to their pastor that they become a god. One last thought, it would logically follow that the churches will become weaker and weaker, because God's people have not been given the right to practice evangelism and speaking their faith.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
Thank you for this comment!
Thanks for the comments. I wholeheartedly agree that the church needs to be more concerned about implementing the commands to strengthen and encourage one another although those commands seem to be intended in a general way, in the sense of the regular and consistent engagement of the church with each other, and not only or specifically for when they met for their meetings on the first day of the week. Paul’s commands should be understood as a lifestyle that extends beyond the meeting itself.
However, the one example in the New Testament, that I can recall, where we have a description of an actual Christian meeting on the first day of the week challenges many of your points. Acts 20 seems to describe Paul as the authoritative teacher, instructing others with a long discussion/lesson/sermon, while at least one person (Eutyches) sat passively listening-to the point that he fell asleep and fell out of the window. Not only does this story mirror what we might find in terms of instruction in a modern church, one might be tempted to consider it the worst form of that type of instruction. Of course, this hinges on how one would understand the verb “dialegomai.” If one takes it as “discussion”, then the text might allow for exactly the format you are proposing - multiple people engaging in teaching each other. While that would be a possible lexical meaning of the term, the story itself suggests, at least to me, that this was not the type of instruction taking place at the time. Eutyches was certainly not engaged in the discussion if there was one taking place. Acts 20 seems to describe a monologue from Paul that was the longest and most central portion of the meeting.
Your points are well-taken but in the absence of actual accounts of the practice of the church in the New Testament, except in the above example, you might be drawing your conclusions too rigidly.
Thanks for raising the issue. God bless.
"Acts 20 seems to describe a monologue from Paul that was the longest and most central portion of the meeting.
"
So you see the term "dialegomai" for dialogue and you dismiss or marginalize it. Based on what authority? Your experience in pulpit and pew life and your imagination? 1. The apostles taught 56 "one another" instructions. Even "meeting together" in Hebrews 10:24-25 is complete "one another". In 1 Cor. 14:26 "When you come together brothers...." is ALL "EACH ONE HAS..." 2. Were you thinking the apostles LECTURED these instructions or PRACTICED these 56 "one another" instructions? The apostles did not contradict what they taught. Jesus practiced these also because Paul was "imitating Christ." 1 Cor. 11:1.
"... the story itself suggests, at least to me, that this was not the type of instruction taking place at the time.."
Interpret the story according to what the apostles would teach CONSITENTLY throughout the NT. Interpret the practice of ekklesia - assembly - through the lens of IDENTITY - Body - Every member of the body contributing - Family - every brother and sister contributing as MUTUAL family members, all with a DIRECT connection to the "holy places." Hired Bible experts in INSTITUTION format have ZERO basis in God's revelation to his people. They are ALL deceived, based on scripture over and over again. The God of the Bible is a DIALOGUE God. He NEVER lectures anyone. And there is MUCH MORE revelation on practicing God's instructions for his people.
@lyallarmstrong7288
"I wholeheartedly agree that the church needs to be more concerned about implementing the commands to strengthen and encourage one another although those commands seem to be intended in a general way, in the sense of the regular and consistent engagement of the church with each other, and not only or specifically for when they met for their meetings on the first day of the week. Paul’s commands should be understood as a lifestyle that extends beyond the meeting itself."
In general, I'd agree with you there. I think you're right. But it's a round Robin agreement, because, as well as being a general lifestyle principle, it will, by necessity and the nature of the Spirit, play itself out in our meetings. The two go hand in hand. It's continual change and renewal.
"However, the one example in the New Testament, that I can recall, where we have a description of an actual Christian meeting on the first day of the week challenges many of your points."
I disagree and I'll explain why.
"Acts 20 seems to describe Paul as the authoritative teacher, instructing others with a long discussion/lesson/sermon, while at least one person (Eutyches) sat passively listening-to the point that he fell asleep and fell out of the window. Not only does this story mirror what we might find in terms of instruction in a modern church, one might be tempted to consider it the worst form of that type of instruction"
The beauty of the New Covenant meetings is that there were none that were "typical." Anything could happen. I liken it to jazz as opposed to pop. Pop is by its very nature repetitive and to a large extent geared towards mass consumption, so when you go to a pop gig, you have a good idea of what you are going to get. You'll know many of the songs and have a list in your head that you hope you'll hear, you'll sing the choruses, you might dance, when the pop artist tells you to shout, you shout. When they tell you they can't hear you, you shout louder. It's quite tightly structured and you know pretty much the destination you'll be arriving at.
Not so with jazz. You haven't got a clue where the musicians are going to take things.....because they haven't got an idea where they're going to take things ! You might recognize the start and finish of a piece, or you may recognize bits within the piece but there's just as good a chance you won't. And "songs" end when the artist is good and ready to bring them to an end or when mental and physical exhaustion dictates a winding down and end.....
So it is with the Spirit. Jesus likened him to the wind, someone/something we don't know where it's coming from or going to.
So to go back to that scene at Troas, the first thing to note is that they came together to eat. The phrase "break bread" is simply people having a meal together. It's not a ritual thing, not a scenario where people ate a little cracker and drank a thimble of grape juice so as not to offend legalistic sensibilities. They came together on that first day of the week to eat. We know from "the Last Supper" and Paul's letter to the Corinthians {among a number of other NT passages} that the believers came together regularly to eat and it seems to me that eating together was an important part of their meetings. But I also have to say, that many years ago, I concluded with a smile that it was just typical of God that one of the principal ways he wanted his people to remember him was by the act of eating.
Gotta love the Lord !
And unfortunately, so many of us over the centuries have reduced something so simple, communal and beautifully God-directed to a shadow of a ritual that bears absolutely no relation to what his intent was. Typically human.
So in Troas, they were eating and Paul was chatting as they ate. The reason he talked all night {this was clearly not a typical, regular thing in their meetings} was because he was leaving the next day. We don't actually have any descriptions of Paul in an actual meeting from which we can draw a conclusion and say, "this is how it should be." So yes, Paul gave a monologue, but then, Paul was a monologue kind of guy, and we are given a clear reason why he gave a monologue. To try to take from this particular story something that justifies the way church meetings have operated for 19 centuries would mean that you'd have to advocate sermons that go on all night. The very fact that Eutychus fell asleep and then fell out of the window and died, alone tells me that this was an unusual state of affairs. Paul wasn't interested in any conversation that night. He had something to say and as he'd be gone the next day, by golly, he was going to say it !
There's nothing wrong with authoritative teachers teaching. There's plenty wrong with the authoritative teacher teaching every time the church gathers, to the exclusion of anyone else having input, even if the input is only a question or two.
@@grimtraveller7923 "So yes, Paul gave a monologue, but then, Paul was a monologue kind of guy, and we are given a clear reason why he gave a monologue."
1. You have been fooled by translators. In Acts 20, the word translated speaking is dialegomai, which is SPECIFICALLY dialogue. No, Paul was not a "monologue kind of guy."
2. If Paul taught 50+ "one another" instructions and NEVER taught one man dominating alleged to be "teaching", Paul PRACTICED these "one another" instructions. There is NO INSTRUCTION for one man to lecture the Bibel EVER. Or did I miss one. Let me know if I did.
3. In pulpit and pew church it is ASSUMED that if someone has a Bible degree they have a gift in teaching, and if they are a lay person they are ASSUMED to not have the gift of teaching unless they express an interest.
4. There are 2 "one another" instructions that involve teaching.
Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you RICHLY,
TEACHING AND ADMONISHING ONE ANOTHER
in ALL WISDOM,
singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
Romans 15:14
I myself am satisfied about you, my brothers,
that you yourselves are full of goodness,
filled with all knowledge
and ABLE TO INSTRUCT ONE ANOTHER.
Please let me know about these points.
You've opened up a whole new world of possibilities, for me. I've tried returning to the church I was born into, but it's just as you say. A set, rote event. Set around the pastor, only, talking. If he's got any new, good ideas, or if he performs his sermon well-wonderful. Chances are....not. And it's funny how I couldn't solidify it all, in concrete terms in my mind, until I saw your videos. Probably has to do with my dysfunctional developing years, where I learned my opinions didn't count, so I suppressed them. I was blessed to attend one event, as you advocate. It was communicated to me as a bible study. And an edifying dialogue did unsue. Unfortunately, the female involved also had a boy-friend, or suiter who got jealous, so I didn't go back.
Great content!
Love it - great stuff. Greetings from Denmark 🙋🏻♂️
Skip to 25:56 if you want the scriptural evidence.
Don’t simply seek REFORM, seek to RETURN to New Testament life!
@ TerryChambers7 - I suspect that enough people return to this mode. Every time they gather with other believers, casually, or semi formally, it might end up reforming some churches! The church leader ship cannot impose this from above on a whole lot of people who haven’t been fully introduced to the idea and the benefits of it. They will freak out.😂 Funny, but not really funny when it happens in a church. Granted, if, in a very hierarchical Church with a priestly class that answers to an even higher hierarchy, it may never be able to impact that denomination as a whole. But I think it is valuable to institute changes from within, and ideally with some approval from the leaders of the church to do things on a small scale. If they are willing to see how that goes, you can see where God will take it. If they oppose it, that’s the information that you have to make your next decisions. Is God leading you to create a ruckus where you are? Or is he Leading you out?
2Tim 2:15 and then Eph 2:8-9! for starters. Paul is the apostle to the GENTILES!
@@jumperstartful - Are you answering the correct comment?
@@jumperstartful I've been alarmed to see how many "truther" believers want to deny Paul as a legitimate apostle. God revealed so much to him that was a mystery prior, particularly about the first resurrection. Whoever doesnt believe Pauls words are really misssing out in their walk with Jesus and understanding God the Father's plans.
@TerryChambers7 ---> If you and the people that liked your post actually agree and believe what you posted.... I wonder:.... have you never read the book of "The Acts of The Apostles chapter 5 verses 1 thru 11? That was how the 1st Century infant church operated.
The modern pastoral system, characterized by a hierarchical structure where a single pastor or a small group of leaders holds significant authority over the congregation, can lead to problematic dynamics within the church. This top-down approach can foster an environment of blind submission, where members may prioritize the pastor's authority over their own convictions and biblical discernment.
Historically, this has had dangerous consequences, as seen in Christian Germany during the rise of Hitler. Many church leaders aligned themselves with the Nazi regime, urging their congregations to submit to secular authority without question. This allegiance often stemmed from a misplaced reverence for pastoral authority, leading to complicity in atrocities rather than a call for moral accountability and resistance to evil.
In contrast, the New Testament promotes a model of leadership that emphasizes shared authority, accountability, and mutual submission among believers (Ephesians 5:21). The emphasis on communal discernment and collective responsibility is crucial for preventing the dangers associated with authoritarianism in the church. Recognizing the potential for manipulation within a rigid pastor-led structure is essential for fostering a faith community that prioritizes Christ’s teachings over any individual leader’s agenda.
Top-down is vertical. It does not match the horizontal relationality of Jesus with his disciples.
@@timothyallen6457 You are correct. Jesus declared mutual relationship.
Matthew 20
25 But Jesus called them to him and said,
“You know that the RULERS of the Gentiles lord it over them,
and their great ones EXERCISE AUTHORITY OVER THEM.
26 IT SHALL NOT BE SO AMONG YOU.
But whoever would be great among you
must be your servant,
27 and whoever would be first among you
must be your slave,
And there are more. There are several bogus translations that reinsert authority over others.
1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders who RULE well
be considered worthy of double honor,
This contradicts the above inserting "rule" for a different greek word than rule. Jesus used the Greek word for rule to REJECT it. But clergyism is a SYSTEM of men that corrupts God's instructions.
Colossians 2:8 (NET)
Be careful not to allow anyone to captivate you
through an empty, deceitful philosophy
that is according to HUMAN TRADITIONS
and the elemental spirits of the world,
and not according to Christ.
Thank you for this insightful teaching. It's refreshing to the mind. I find the "one anothering" multiple perspective to be a thing I would want to consider.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
And, if that one "preacher" is wrong or teaches error promoted from traditional institutional "degreed" seminaries, there is no method in the current worship services to correct that error. The preacher is put in a position of authority that others feel intimidated and reluctant to approach that error. This causes ppl to move from one "church" congregation to another, continually searching for a better preacher. The house assembly allows that horizontal discussion that will open instruction for everyone.
So is it right to say that our Sunday School setup is more of the right definition of a worship service, where everyone can have a voice about a topic being discussed or studied.
In my view, the typical "adult Bible class" is much more effective at edification than the typical "worship service."
@tomwadsworth Thank you, Dr. Wadsworth. I would remember as a former SS teacher, I often get out of my manual's topic because I enjoy listening and engaging in discussions amongst us, our minds are all awake and we all learn from each other's insights.
@@tomwadsworth I agree yes sir
I watched all 7 vids and this one twice and I love the message. The big challenge we have is to build one up (to me) means that we must address our sin and the need to be transformed. This is a challenge since most churches preach “only grace” and that works are against the gospel (once saved always saved)… this is the perfect environment for stagmentation and even regression.
EVERY pulpit and pew institution has MANY points of sin baked in and all claimed to be godly. And they can be HOSTILE when scripture is given to EXPOSE their corruption. I know from experience in scattering seeds "of the word of God" in pulpit oriented churches. Here are the points of EXPOSING that I offer to 100% obedience to Christ.
1. 100% of the giving goes beyond the givers - no pooling to buy sermons and pulpit buildings primarily for the givers 2 Cor. 8 & 9 - All offerings and giving in the NT went beyond the givers. Meeting in homes is free. Leadership is “free of charge”. 1 Corinthians 9:18; 2 Corinthians 11:7
2. 100% one another communication - there are 50+ of these and no instructions for one way communication by one man for the whole time Heb.10:24,25
3. 100% mutual relationships- no power pyramid with titles - “you are all brothers” Matt 23:8; All have EQUAL STANDING 2 Peter 1:1
4. 100% reproducing leadership - everything a leader does is “entrusted” to “faithful people” 2 Tim. 2:1,2; Luke 6:40
5. 100% intergenerational meeting - never send the children away; they can participate fully in every way with the Holy Spirit inside them. Matt. 19:13
6. 100% demonstration of being "perfectly one" as Jesus prayed so the world will know Jesus is "perfectly one" with the Father. John 17:20-23 No more brand names division. No more clergy - laity division.
7. 100% of what we do is “service to Christ.” No secular vs sacred dichotomy of marketplace work from building God’s kingdom. Col. 3:23-24
8. 100% of all believers preparing in advance to manifest their unique gifts and "filling" of the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:4-11
Maybe you can add some points from your observation. We can discuss these.
Greetings Beloved of the Lord!, Tom, thanks for your teaching. How would you define 1 Timothy 4:13 - “Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.” Exhortation can be preaching. It can be private or public. Thanks for your thoughts. Much love and blessings…
I understand that the modern church culture would like to view exhortation as "preaching." I also understand that any church would like to justify everything that they are doing.
But if we're trying to identify what kind of speaking was done in the regular assemblies of first century gatherings, then "preaching" (κηρύσσω, εὐαγγελίζω) is an odd choice. 1 Tim 4:13 clearly promotes the idea that first century assemblies should have the public reading of Scripture, exhortation (παράκλησις), and teaching.
As I detailed in this video, there are problems with the modern concept of "preaching."
@12:20 While you correct that the English word "sermon" does not occur int he Bible, if you look at Acts 20, we find that in the Greek text of Acts, Paul is recorded as giving a monologue and later engaging in dialogue with the assembly. In other words he preached for a time and then had a time of Q and A after his message. SO there was preaching in Acts 20 and all through out Acts. What we have lost is the Q&A part of the service but what you are arguing in this video is ignoring the evidence that is right there in the text.
This is refreshing. ~I needed this.
Ty for this teaching ty for confirmation of what i believe God little by little showing me i appreciate this
Greetings from Bloemfontein, South Africa
Greetings from JHB
I could listen to this kind of teaching endlessly. I don't think that institutional churches are capable of turning out pastoral leaders because it is a system rather than a family of believers and seminary institutions are part of that system and also preserve it. It has more in common with a worldly organisation and paganism than what you reveal in scripture, it is man made religion similar to Catholicism in one form or another! Did not Jesus rail against religion all of which heap burdens on people?
The modern pastoral system, characterized by a hierarchical structure where a single pastor or a small group of leaders holds significant authority over the congregation, can lead to problematic dynamics within the church. This top-down approach can foster an environment of blind submission, where members may prioritize the pastor's authority over their own convictions and biblical discernment.
Historically, this has had dangerous consequences, as seen in Christian Germany during the rise of Hitler. Many church leaders aligned themselves with the Nazi regime, urging their congregations to submit to secular authority without question. This allegiance often stemmed from a misplaced reverence for pastoral authority, leading to complicity in atrocities rather than a call for moral accountability and resistance to evil.
In contrast, the New Testament promotes a model of leadership that emphasizes shared authority, accountability, and mutual submission among believers (Ephesians 5:21). The emphasis on communal discernment and collective responsibility is crucial for preventing the dangers associated with authoritarianism in the church. Recognizing the potential for manipulation within a rigid pastor-led structure is essential for fostering a faith community that prioritizes Christ’s teachings over any individual leader’s agenda.
Greetings from Tasmania, Australia
Hi, Greetings from the UK. As a pastor, I'm finding this material really helpful. I love preaching the gospel, and I also love teaching. The one thing I don't love is "preaching" to the same congregation week by week, for the very reasons you set out in this teaching. I have a question though. You mention the verses about instructing one another, and Heb 5:12 "by this time you ought to be teachers", but James 3:1 says "not many should presume to be teachers." I wondered what Tom, or anyone, would say about this verse?
Thanks for the comment! Heb 5:12 shouldn't make us think that everyone must be a teacher. If you study ALL the NT references to "teach," "teacher," and "teaching" (διδάσκω), it's clear that the teaching function was a higher-level skill that carried a higher level of responsibility. See verses like 2 Tim 2:2 ("The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful people who will be able to teach others also"); 1 Tim. 3:2;(The overseer must be "able to teach," cf. Titus 1:9); Matt. 10:24-25 ("A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master"; cf. Luke 6:40). I think the writer of Hebrews is simply saying that those Christians should have grown much more than they have.
Does that answer your question? Or did I misunderstand your question?
@@tomwadsworth thanks for your quick response, which is fine - question not misunderstood! I wondered if you are part of an assembly where these teaching are put into practice. If so, a video teaching on the application could be helpful, with some of the challenges as well as blessings? God bless.
@@nicklowe8102 For most of the last 40+ years, I've been involved in an "adult Bible study." At the same time, I've regularly attended a "traditional church." I've come to realize that my "adult Bible study" has much more in common with first-century assemblies than a "worship service" at a modern "church building." I suspect that you know what I'm saying ...
@@tomwadsworth Thanks. One of the reasons I've appreciated your teaching is because you don't write off 'traditional' churches, which I think is important. Generally, they are full of well-meaning Christian people. At the same time for me there's been a big BUT, and a disconnect between what we read of in the NT compared to modern churches of all persuasions, which I've noticed, but not really been able to understand well. But your videos have really helped.
But a question, does your traditional church accept this teaching, and is it making any difference?
This is very insightful, this teaching really makes things make sense.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
Good stuff. He argues that what is missing in preaching is "opportunity for development" I would argue that what is missing in most cases in both "preaching" and "teaching" is application, a clear path to doing, obeying the word. Teaching in the church building tends to leave folks in the pews as cold and unchanged as preaching. It is information. What Tom does not dwell on in this talk is that NT "teaching", both in Jesus and Paul, is really more like an apprenticeship than a lecture. Both emphasize imitation: Watch and replicate. This kind of teaching is not suited for the classroom or the "sanctuary".
The modern pastoral system, characterized by a hierarchical structure where a single pastor or a small group of leaders holds significant authority over the congregation, can lead to problematic dynamics within the church. This top-down approach can foster an environment of blind submission, where members may prioritize the pastor's authority over their own convictions and biblical discernment.
Historically, this has had dangerous consequences, as seen in Christian Germany during the rise of Hitler. Many church leaders aligned themselves with the Nazi regime, urging their congregations to submit to secular authority without question. This allegiance often stemmed from a misplaced reverence for pastoral authority, leading to complicity in atrocities rather than a call for moral accountability and resistance to evil.
In contrast, the New Testament promotes a model of leadership that emphasizes shared authority, accountability, and mutual submission among believers (Ephesians 5:21). The emphasis on communal discernment and collective responsibility is crucial for preventing the dangers associated with authoritarianism in the church. Recognizing the potential for manipulation within a rigid pastor-led structure is essential for fostering a faith community that prioritizes Christ’s teachings over any individual leader’s agenda.
@@1Whipperin yes! You said that so well. Churches are designed in the greek style of hierarchy, not according to the Word. So many true believers who love God have been mislead intentionally. I've had to relearn almost everything, and i went to "good" Bible believing churches all my childhood and adult life. The best thing was memorizing scripture as a child. That has served me well. Today's "churches" have been a very powerful tool of subtle deception. It's been almost impossible to have a conversation with my church-going friends about this.
@@inthetwinklingofaneye Yes, indeed! I agree. The Pastor system is the wolf in sheep's clothing that has a very powerful brainwash on the vast majority of people. As a teenager, I read the Bible on my own and quickly saw that what my pastor taught often contradicted Scripture. This led me from one pastor system to another, not realizing the true answer lay in Matthew 23:8-12, where Jesus clearly commands against titles among believers. This command must be taken seriously. Though some pastors may offer good teaching, they ultimately redirect our focus toward themselves rather than encouraging the "one another" fellowship Christ intended. It’s not a minor issue or mere mistake; it undermines the very essence of what the Church should be. Avoid anyone claiming any titles among the brethren.
Plymouth brethren have held what we call “reading meetings” since our beginning back in the 1830s. Brethren sit in a circle, a passage is read from the Bible, prayer for help from the Holy Spirit is made, discussion among the brethren is held, the sisters listen and read along in silence, the saints are edified. What this requires is that the brethren must be familiar with their Bible. Otherwise you will get long periods of “dead air” or the domination of one who is learned.
But anybody can get up and read suddenly, with periods of silence, without any structure, and only a few elders would be actually allowed to do so, and they separate women from men, even spouses, so it's pretty wrong still because the Bible says let all things be done decently and in order and also what God has joined together let no man put asunder... Sometimes they even just read a line from a hymn book, not even elaborating on a good portion of SCRIPTURE.
@@scripturalhorizonskjv, What is wrong with following the order of assembly gathering as outlined by the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 14? Since we do so, we are allowing the Holy Spirit to be the Director of proceedings. That was Jesus' intent when He said to the disciples that He (the Holy Spirit) would lead you into all truth. Also, that He would not speak of Himself but He would speak of Me. Christ is the focus of gathering. All else is secondary.
@@Saratogan the Plymouth Brethren / Darbysts aren't structured enough in the assembly and are tied to perverse traditions of men, sad but true
@@scripturalhorizonskjv says who? What makes you the arbiture? We do all things decently and in order but not by rote.
@@Saratogan I was invited one Wednesday to an assembly in some government building (I guess as usual for any denomination) with 80% singing and 20% something else, and only 2-3 elders were getting up reading random sentences sometimes not even from scripture. And women separated from men, even spouses ! I asked my elderly friend if I could talk also but he gently denied my right and ability and calling perhaps to express myself as well with the scripture in the assembly. The only structure is the randomness of some socially accepted elderly people, and a quick prayer time when you have to when they say all the congregation have to (prayer is something very personal). I was also casually denied to partake in the ordinance of the memorial of the body of Christ when they offered the bread and (hopefully) grape juice to a few selected elders only...
Excellent 🎉 Thank you 😊
Thank you
Another word used in assemblies of the time was judging. The church was supposed to judge matters between Brothers
Unlike us, they probably understood their faith as an extension of their lives but with a new and different understanding of that life rather than something that had to be expressed religiously. I think they grasped what Jesus really meant when He told the Samaritan woman in John 4, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.” When we were saved in the early 70’s in the so-called “Jesus Movement “, it was what we understood and our lives were not a rebellion against the church thing but a reaction against it. We understood why it was unnecessary and ineffective. We didn’t think it evil, just an inaccurate expression of faith.
Listening from Hollywood Florida ❤
Just noticed here: the 1 Peter passage applies stewardship to gifts distributed for ministering to one another, NOT a compulsory monetary tithe.
I know in their culture women were viewed a certain way and it was shameful for them to speak in church. Do you see that as the culture back then and in our present culture we are free to all join the teaching, sharing a hymn, song, encouragement, etc? Or do you feel women should stay silent?
Speaking for myself, I think that it was the local culture that perceived it as shameful for women to speak in an assembly. Our local culture would perceive it as shameful to silence women from speaking in assembly.
Some will strongly disagree with me. But I ask, "Do you require women to be veiled?" (1 Cor 11:2-16) "Do you 'greet one another with a holy kiss'?" (1 Cor 16:22; Rom 16:16; 2 Cor 13:12; 1 Thess 5:26; 1 Pet 5:14). Do you require women to not wear braids or jewelry (1 Tim 2:9; 1 Pet 3:3)?
I think the prominent commands to love one another (Rom 13:8), accept one another (Rom 15:7), and bear with one another (Eph 4:2), coupled with Paul's ideal that "there is neither male nor female" in Christ (Gal 3:28), should dominate our approach to this.
Thank you this is so eye opening. I’m a new believer looking to understand the Bible more. I have a question in Timothy Paul talks about women not teaching men or having authority over men. How would this work in a house group where we are supposed to edify one another through teaching and such? Does that mean women are silent while the men teach and get edified that way?
I have the same question.
That’s an excellent quesrion
So glad to see your channel after you were interviewed by ithinkbiblically.
Is anyone familiar with The Local Church founded by Watchman Nee & Witness Lee in the '50s? They meet in homes in "The Church in ", just like the epistles written to "the church in Ephesus", etc. And they have a plurality of elders guding their meetings. I met with them for several months until i realized it was cultish and net several ex-members who were with Witness Lee olanting churces across America in the '70s.
Then i read Frank Viola's books and desire only to meet in homes.
My videos certainly have some similarities with Viola's book. But that book has some fundamental problems. I refer you to Ben Witherington, a qualified New Testament scholar, who has written three extensive negative reviews of the Pagan Christianity book.
Part 1 is here: benwitherington.blogspot.com/2008/06/pagan-christianty-by-george-barna-and.html.
Part 2 is here: benwitherington.blogspot.com/2008/07/pagan-christianityreview-part-two.html.
Part 3 is here: benwitherington.blogspot.com/2008/07/pagan-christianityreview-part-three.html.
In my view, Witherington's criticisms are largely valid. Yet, even if only 40% of Viola's claims are true, the modern church needs to rethink the origins of its meeting practices, which I have attempted to do in my dissertation and my videos.
Because they preached CHRIST!!!
Eye opening
Hi Tom, I really enjoyed your discussion with James Early tonight and you said that you had a video called "What do we do now?" or something like that...however, I can't find that one on your channel. I am so interested in that as I am in a small group of people who are looking deeply into how we re-imagine our church services. I also wasn't able to make an email go through on your website contact form. So I hope you read this. Thank you
You can find "What do we do now?" here: th-cam.com/video/CGPSQVoZrMg/w-d-xo.html
Let me know if you need further assistance.
I think I am like all of us in that we have sensed there is something innately wrong about church but just not sure what. Well, after listening to Dr. Tom, I think we at least feel somewhat vindicated in our concerns. Prior to listening to Dr. Tom, I had done some minimal research into Synagogues and when did they start up. I have heard from the Catholics and others that the church "method" was originally designed around the synagogue "method" of their meetings. Where and when did the synagogue come from? That is for another topic that hasn't been explored to the end either. But today, we have the church and that is our problem now. And we have the Scripture and historical background that Dr. Tom has researched to help us figure out how to fix this.
On today's topic of preaching sermons. I haven't seen any pastor or preacher do this well since Charles Spurgeon which is well over a hundred years now. Whether you do it once a week or 3 times a week, preaching sermons opens up a whole can of worms. I would say that this system "forces" preachers and pastors to lie to their parishioners each week. They are 'forced' to come up with stories and illustrations that will 'entertain' the audience so the audience continues to listen. And I say "lie" here because how is it possible to come up with 50 to 150 stories that illustrate the passages without lying? Nobody has that many "life experiences" to cover every single passage each week for 2 to 3 years. And if they try to use the same illustration more than once, the people will be upset and so it is also a people problem. It really is about entertainment too because most people leave the sermons and never have a clue what it was about almost immediately upon leaving. So in my opinion, it seems to force pastors to SIN and also the congregation SINS in their desire to be entertained by these stories and illustrations. How do we fix this perpetual lying where the people require the pastor to lie to them every week by making up a new story out of thin air?
Hi Kevin. It's good to hear from you again. You raise good questions. I think that most pastors don't "lie" in their sermons. But it is indeed a major challenge to force any human being to develop a compelling message every single week. As I state in the video, it's counterproductive to silence the vast resources of wisdom and insight that lie dormant within the members of every congregation every week.
Agreed re: the "stories" the preachers are encouraged to tell. They often have little to do with a selected scripture, & are intended to find a way to "apply" the scriptures to our lives today. That is a very misleading approach to the scriptures, b/c it ignores the 1st audience perspective that is required when studying the scriptures. It will only apply to us today if that same condition of the 1st century AD is still applicable. The reader must understand that the scriptures were written centuries ago. They are for our understanding, but many of them were specific to that generation of the 1st century AD.
@@ginaadamo2499 Excellent comment!
@@ginaadamo2499 Yes, that is true to some degree but I believe that people are the same today as we were 2000 years ago with 2 minor differences. One is technology and access to information. Two is that the culture 2000 years ago didn't have a Science that was bent on confusing the people about the reality of God.
I don't agree that the reader needs understand that the scriptures were written centuries ago. Truly, the only foundation we have today is the belief that the scriptures have been preserved for us throughout the ages. Secondly, that God's Plan of Salvation, the Gospel, is simple enough that children can understand. It is simple enough that people with low IQs can understand. That God would not deter even the least among us to the knowledge and understanding of the scriptures.
That is why I really press the preachers hard and the pastors hard. Given the first two are correct, as I believe, then confusion of the people can only come from diluting God's doctrines with Man's doctrines. God's doctrines are perfect and Man's doctrines add only confusion.
My journey down this road started after many, many years of hearing preachers and pastors claiming that Christians are hypocrites. No, it is entirely impossible for a Christian to be a hypocrite. That is so false. They are totally disjoint from each other. And I often hear even the male preachers bashing men from the pulpit. Even joking about being anti-family is not good. Not from the pulpits. When you are bashing men from the pulpits you are attacking God. Because men are God's perfect creation. So many, many years of hearing these strange teachings from the pulpits has lead me to wonder what else do these pastors and preachers teach that goes against God and goes to confusing the people. And as I have matured, I have realized that every sermon I hear preached today in any denomination has at least some sprinkling of Man's Doctrines! And that is alarming to me.
I like the idea of 1st century church and eliminating the "sermons' and the "vertical church structure" as it would help to prevent confusion and at least Man's Doctrines. Because even though confusion and Man's Doctrines will try to invade, they just do not hold up to active reason and understanding of scriptures. You know how we speak badly about the public universities and how that the professors only regurgitate the same words they hear from other professors. Ultimately writing books and papers with strange ideas that only come from university circles. Well, that same thing is happening to Bible colleges and Seminaries. But these 'strange' ideas are what we Christians call Man's doctrines and they eventually get incorporated into the local churches and we have pastors and preachers proudly supporting their institutions over the "throne of God" and that is too dangerous for me to think of.
But to the point, I would not necessarily say an understanding of life 2000 years ago is a problem for "readers" of the scriptures. But it is a problem for scholars who conjure up strange ideas and argue vain arguments all to the confusion of the people. The people will not be confused otherwise and I believe that is a promise of God. God is not the author of confusion.
@@kevinerose
Hi Kevin,
I have much simpatico with what you say, but I disagree when you say we don't need to know the scriptures were written at least 2000 years ago. I disagree because although it is true that people are largely the same, it is paradoxically also true that we're not. And our contexts have so many differences from the people that received the letters at Colossae or Thessalonica or read the gospels of Mark or the first people that would have a copy of "O Great Theophilus"'s copy of Luke and Acts etc.
That all said, there is so much of scripture that makes sense once one is aware of the context of what caused the document to be written and who received it - equally, there are some things that simply will never make sense.
But here's a thing: perhaps that doesn't really matter as much as we like to make it matter.
The great thrust of the NT instructions and insights point not to reading scripture, but to being filled and led by the Holy Spirit. When believers are led by the Spirit, genuine "one-anothering" takes place. When everything is "scripture-led," we end up with where we are today. Because some people naturally love to read, some naturally do not. But no one has a dictatorial hold on the Spirit. Like the wind, he comes from where he comes and goes where he's going.
Much of the writing we see in the letters can really be categorized as letters written to people learning how to be led by the Spirit of God. People learning to get out of the way and let the Spirit do his thing so that everyone can serve one another, love one another and contribute to each other's well-being and development.
It is entirely significant that when Barnabus and Paul were planting churches, they didn't stay in some places long at all. Yet when they went back to see how things were, they found that the disciples they'd seen converted had moved forward in Christ to the extent that they were able to ratify elders. Even if one uses the word "appointed" the fact still remains that there had to be people to appoint. When they left the places they had planted churches in, they didn't leave anyone behind to guide the people. So how did those people develop ? By the Holy Spirit.
Now, this doesn't mean that the churches weren't without their problems. But it does mean that they had a responsibility to thrash out matters and that they had to work out how and when the Spirit of God was leading them. Paul, Peter, James, Jude and the writers of the 3 "Johns" and Hebrews aren't laying out exactly what should be done every time the church met, they are reminders of what they've already taught, all geared towards believers submitting to one another through the Holy Spirit.
But contexts are nonetheless, important.
Bless you. Thank you 🙌
Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
I’ll give my two cents in love. We need to understand that we’re at church was never in the original. I don’t know if you went over this in a video from I’m only 12 minutes in, but Jesus would use the word ecclesia. It’s actually a government word we have made this thing a religion When we should be functioning in a kingdom.
Hello from Greece again! As you know, I agree with you so much. But what about Ephesians 4: 11,12. It seems like a monologue from those who have the gifts (prophets, pastors etc) towards the saints to perfect them for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. May be we have to levels hear. Yes, the saints will make the work of ministry one another, but the others (teachers, prophets, evangelists etc) have the authority to do sermons (for 30 minutes or one hour may be) toward them, a kind of seminars. What can we say about this? Have we the one anothering formula here? They don't preach but they edify here. Thank you for your answer.
I love Greece!
I'm not saying that 30-minute or 60-minute messages must be outlawed. Paul certainly talked for a long time at Troas (Acts 20-7-9). But when we're expecting 100% of our edification to come from lengthy "sermons," I don't think our people will grow very much. People need to interact and engage with a message in order to assimilate it and grow from it.
So, there are both. Thank you very much. God bless you!
Good on my ears tonight Ken Todd
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listening from Kenya
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The New Testament depiction of church services is one that combines horizontal and vertical elements.
The horizontal elements include preaching, teaching and Scripture reading and are all depicted as taking place in congregational settings. See, for example, Matthew 4:24; 9:35; Acts 11:26; 13:5, 14-41, 44; 14:27; 15:1, 21; 16:14; 17:2-3, 11-12; 18:5-11, 24-26; 19:8-10; 20:7, 20-21; 28:28-31; Romans 1:25; 16:25; 1 Corinthians 4:17; 14:6, etc. Indeed, the whole book of Hebrews is a homily.
The vertical elements include prayer, prophecy, praises & hymns sung to God, and are all depicted as taking place in congregational settings. See, for example, Matthew 21:13; Mark 11:17; Luke 2:36-37; 19:46; Acts 1:24; 2:1, 42; 14:23; 16:13, 16; 21:4, 11; 1 Corinthians 14:2-5, 15-16, 22-32; Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 1:3, etc.
The Didache, written in the first century by the first Christian assembly of church leaders, expresses how we are to worship in our assemblies. Most scholars assess the didache pre dates many of the NT Scriptures.
It’s a fascinating document!
Agree, worthy of the 20 minutes it takes to read! Complimentary to this teaching.
Scholars are actually not able to say that it predates some NT scriptures. The Didache document was found in the 19th century.
@@AudreyZIB Some perhaps but many do think so. I believe it was found in Constantinople. I viewed a video about it a while back and couldn’t help but see a connection to what the earliest church historian Josephus wrote as reported by J N D Kelly.
@@Peace2U-LM
Josephus was not a Church historian.
Interesting stuff. I can’t say I agree with every conclusion, there are scriptures that stand out as counterpoints to a few of the ideas- but so far it’s offering some great points of reflection to consider, and in a balanced way.
Excellent points were made! 49:42
I came to these same conclusions years ago. It’s difficult to change traditions so ingrained concerning the “worship service,” and the vocational “pastor.” I am part of a church that averages around 275 on Sunday mornings, and it has a consistent and typical service. I just see it as an opportunity to meet new believers and maybe meet in smaller less formal groups for bible study or fellowship.
How does John 4:1-26 fit into the con
ept of worship for Christians?
I’m hearing what your saying but I’m not getting what I am coming for.
You said you study the early Christians… all I see here is a reinterpretation of the NT text. I’ve read all of the ante nicean writings…. I’m not seeing this.
If all you’re saying is that you should have more than one speaker I can say amen.
Paul tells Timothy to teach, exhort and rebuke. That sounds like a teaching office
What do you think of Justin martyrs words about early church gatherings?
Justin Martyr is writing from the perspective of Rome in the mid-second century, over 100 years after the birth of Christianity. My focus was the first-century Christian writings that are regarded as authoritative throughout Christendom. No one regards Justin as authoritative. My research indicates that church practices had evolved in several unproductive ways by Justin's time.
@ Ok fair enough. So you wouldn’t use tertullians descriptions of the church in Carthage either since it’s even later. Curious, which extra canonical first century Christian writings do you find helpful toward that end?
@@danielandmariewalter All extra-canonical writings are helpful toward tracing the status of Christianity at that time and place. None of them are helpful in determining apostolic first-century directives and practice.
@@tomwadsworth wow that’s quite a statement. Your selection of helpful information is pretty small then. I was blessed to read the patient ferment of the early church. I found it the first time I encountered the early church as truly strange and different (in a good way) instead of seeing how we mine the early church to confirm our own presuppositions.
This excellent. Thank you.
Hi Tom, The biggest issue i have is getting my head around the different doctrines taught, many are of pagan origin. This exists today in the churches, and I have to overlook it when taught from the platform, If you look at the history of Christianity it was bad and good they killed during inquisitions for example, yet we enjoy the platform in the west that was built by the blood of Christians despite they believed false things. It seems like a contradiction that God could never support. Yet this is what Christians accomplished : For example, the kingdom teachings preached by the church elevated brutish standards of morality, halted infanticide, enhanced human life, emancipated women, abolished slavery, inspired charities and relief organisations, created hospitals, ambulance health care, police, established orphanages, founded schools, gave us a measure of law and order and peace in the west all because of the spread of Christianity which is the spread of the Kingdom of the heavens. How to reconcile this in our heads is beyond me at the moment. Are you able to shed any light on this?
Do you think that a church that has sermons on Sunday but also has small groups during the week in people's homes accommodates both understandings?
No. 1. The majority of pew listeners will not EVER join the small groups. The may try it briefly and then quit. 2. The two kinds of "meeting together" contradict each other. One way communication by one man VS One another communication by all. 3. God SPECIFIES "ONE ANOTHER" COMMUNICATIon for "meeting together" Hebrews 10:24-25; 1 Cor. 14:26-end. 4. The pulpit and pew ritual FORCES believers to CONSUME 84% of their giving to pay for the hired man and the pulpit building. God's design for "meeting together" can be done so 100% of giving goes BEYOND the givers alleged "needs." 5. Every pulpit and pew building is divided by brand name from ALL THE OTHER gatherings of saints which displays to the lost that God's people are DIVIDED from each other. John 17:20-23 tells us Jesus wants us to show the lost we are "perfectly one" which shows the DEITY OF CHRIST as "perfectly one with the Father." And there is more in everyone's Bible. Clergy will not tell you about it. They usually don't know about it because traditions of men don't want it.
Mark 7:13 thus making void the word of God
by your tradition that you have handed down.
And many such things you do."
No. Sooner or later there will be a clash. The two principles actively run against each other. One emphasizes the "top down" approach. The other emphasizes every person taking responsibility and seeing themselves as a real, genuine, functioning priest that cannot hide. They are incompatible.
It's nothing to do with the sincerity or niceness of the individuals involved.
Everything you said is very enlightening. A message for our times. May god bring fresh reforms to the church. One word of caution. Do a word study on converts as you did on worship. As you can imagine it’s not a word used very often. They used first fruits.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
@ filled it out. Stay in touch. Btw have you read the patient ferment of the early church? That was a paradigm shift for me.
@@danielandmariewalter I'm familiar with the gist of Patient Ferment, but I have not read it. You're the second person to recommend it!
@ good to hear! Keep me posted on your upcoming book. All the best to you.
Where in Tn? I live in Nashville.
Thank you, Sir.
I wondered which version of the Bible you are are using to come to this conclusion?
For the NT, I use the Greek version ... usually the Nestle-Aland 28th edition.
I agree with the cork analogy. See that much. Passive attendance, and monologuing. Very little interaction.
About evangelism:
If Matthew 28:18-20 only applied to the 12, how then did Jesus promise to be with them as they do it all days till the end of times? Was Jesus saying that those 12 would be living till the end of times?
Also, when persecution scattered the church from Jerusalem and the believers Who were scattered went and preached the good news where they moved, were they all evangelists? From the way the bible speaks of them, they most probably were ordinary folks, but they went and preached the good news! And had results!
And when Jesus told us that this good news of the Kingdom must be preached to all creation before the end comes, who will do it? So our neighbours will have to wait for God to raise an evangelist in our town for them to hear? Or are we not to bring the good news to them (using whatever format we find appropriate)?