Sandy Rant... With a Sledgehammer? Why Aluminum Castings Are Safer Than Steel
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2023
- Fed up with some of the comments we've received lately, Sandy takes matters into his own hands to prove that Tesla's aluminum castings create a safer car than steel.
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#Tesla - บันเทิง
I love it when Sandy gets riled. Anger shining through decades of experience 🙂
Sandy mad..... Sandy SMASH! Love you Sandy.
Yes, when an idiot who hasn't driven past a foundry or pattern shop (let alone ever walked into) "simulates" in their head how "reality" is and shares it with someone who's dedicated their life to the art and science.... well, it disrespects the hard earned knowledge and experience someone like Sandy has amassed.
What about the crumple zones? Not saying he's wrong but wasn't even addressed
As a front and rear aluminum castings owner, I was thrilled to learn this. Thanks, Sandy.
fanboy casting owners know best, when it comes to pointless clickbait..... Where is my Robotaxi?
@@nc3826 So touchy.
Aww did you get triggered? @@nc3826
@@nc3826 Where is full self driving 5 years ago?
@@nc3826 WIth Musk the grift never ends. "It's financially insane to own anything else than a Tesla" yea right
Weak materials combined with geometrically correct design can in many cases outperform stiffer and stronger materials used in non-optimal design, which is not widely known... 100% agree with you Sandy
When casting cracks it can take 0 force. Metal bends so it still holds something.
However when thinking about serious crash there are so so many more factors. Casting could act like a helmet what takes the force, it breaks and passengers are saved.
Steel will rust and aluminium casting doesn't. Or at least not as fast.
And of course you have to engineer both parts good. Maybe you remember crash test of Chinese cars in 90'-00'ish. Being steel didn't help.
Tesla know how to make castings. They make rockets!
These fake swings are embarassing for Sandy's credibility. Hit it the same if you want to make a point.
@@taylorc2542 oh oh...you gonna get a visit from Sandy and his sledge hammer
@@Jako1987 Aluminum will never rust it oxidizes.
I was convinced about the casting advantage when Sandy and Corey started examining them. If Sandy says they're superior, I'll bank on his words.
That’s the logical fallacy known as “argument from authority”.
@@KentBuchla There's actual FACTUAL evidence that Sandy knows what he is talking about.
If you want to argue about logical fallacies, give Matt Dillahunty a call. 🤣
The biggest advantage of castings is the freedom to vary part thickness and shape to put the material where it's needed and remove it from where it isn't so it can be optimized for strength, rigidity and low weight. You are limited on what you can do with the uniform thickness of sheet metal and the stamping process so yes, aluminum castings are nearly always superior than stamped sheet metal for engineered parts.
The biggest advantage is speed of execution. Everything else is just gravy.
@@cawfeedawgI think there is a New Balance (not the sneakers), in terms of alloys, casting machines, costs & amortization.
In the case of Tesla, casting is heavier than sheet metal welded together for the same function.
The problem with casting is brittle and poor repair-ability.
@@matthewhuszarik4173 "The problem with casting is brittle and poor repair-ability."
Just replace the broken part.
Props to Sandy & the team. It’s a challenging business with a lot of overhead, but Munro & Associates makes a the world a better place.
I’m sure in principle this is correct and the casting is stronger . But we all know hitting something the is free floating , ie not held down will not dent it will give and move … so not a good test . The third test was a much better representation of reality /strength
Exactly, you can't hammer a nail into a board if you allow the board to move unsupported. And with his demo on the front end, he has a real half hearted swing of the "persuader" on the casting versus his swing on the steel. Of course Sandy is right, but his demos are not very consistent. I laughed when he brought out the tool to measure the depth of the dent... ha.. ha.. real precision!
@@freeaccess5905he should have used the tool on the casting to show it had no deflection... And put the 1st casting against a wall so it absorbed all the energy.
Exactly … the second test was a joke, but the argument stands.
@@mxs8102 I am sure many will think our comments are being petty, but it undermines the whole credibility of his point.
@@freeaccess5905 I wouldn't say credibility, just the validity of the comparisons
Clearly not Sandy's first time with a 16# "persuader". Great demo sir. Thanks
Thanks for watching!
and a much better hammer than Franz's :) @@MunroLive
@@mrtcntr it's not about the size of Franz's hammer, it's what he does with it that matters.
Although, obviously, with real hammers size is absolutely vital as is skill.
Sandy was first introduced to the #16 persuader after leaving his first board meeting at Ford
👍I didn’t know they were rated. Thx!
I love how he wore his safety mask up until the tape fell off, after that he was like "f### it" until he went back to the stamped frame
I think the casting the nay sayer has in mind is the typical pot metal casting made to the cheapest price point possible, not an engineered one with an aluminum alloy optimized for strength without being brittle. Aluminum castings have been used for decades in the aerospace industry and I especially love Sandy’s comparison of cast engines and heads. It😢not uncommon to see 1000 HP engines on the dyno these days are they’re cast aluminum blocks and heads. Well done Sandy.
Those aluminum castings used in aerospace industry have, unfortunately, also been cracking for decades. Passenger vehicles are not subjected to the same rigorous inspection schedules and procedures necessary to detect these cracks. This lack of timely crack detection could become a serious problem in the future of wheeled transport.
I found this statement in a German trade journal for foundry technology: "Giga- or megacasting can therefore be classified neither as an efficient solution per se, nor as a lightweight solution, nor as a higher-performance process. However, it does represent an alternative that adds an interesting variant to the rather well-worn technological toolbox in car body construction."
Well, if the Germans 'engineers' think it's a bad idea, that's proof positive that it is not, in fact a bad idea. They're still pushing e-fuels so they can keep polluting and killing their customers. They'll do and say anything to retain their car industry except design modern EVs or adopt better manufacturing processes.
We all love Sandy! What a refreshing personality... logical with experience to back it up. He shouldn't be bothered to be angry with idiots.
Most of the people who make you angry online are idiots. 25 years ago you probably would have never encountered them or their opinions but today it's all fed to you by an algorithm specifically designed to make you angry. Do yourself a favour and stick a middle finger up to the algorithm - I'll leave it up to you how you do that.
There was nothing logical about this test. The stamp welded part was SOLIDLY attached to the car. The other part was laying loose on the floor and could MOVE when he hit it. A ridiculous comparison, and I cannot even fathom that guy as smart as Sandy would do such a test.
Complete joke of a test
That was a great rant. Keep them coming.
Hell yeah! Sandy spitting FACTS! Out there fighting the ignorance and small minded thinking like a BEAST! 😎👍
Some people states opinions without knowledge or experience. That is what Sandy prove today that knowledge and experience matters, especially when you are building vehicles.
Sandy rocks 😂
Its actually very helpful as most of us amateurs would think the castings would be brittle and shatter.
Thanks Sandy.
Cold stampings have to be ductile, but castings can be anywhere from ductile to brittle. Pure aluminum (which can of course be cast) for instance is extremely ductile, but extremely soft. What you want for crash structures is high toughness -- basically strength times ductility.
@@concinnusthere’s annealing too.
@@TamagoHead Obviously, but I don't see your point. I've not heard of them using quenching, tempering, or annealing. Presumably it's more cost effective to just use air hardening alloys.
@@concinnus apologies on the brevity. I think that Tesla & IDRA have cooked up a new Al alloy.
The annealing takes place as the vehicle wears, IMHO. Thx for the response!
I'm pretty sure that many people are confusing cast aluminum versus crappy die-cast metal, like say what might be used to make Hot Wheels say, pot metal or the crappy top case latch on the early BMW K1200LT Motorcycle. There's an aftermarket replacement for the OEM latch manufactured by a third-party individual CNC'd out of aluminum. The later generation OEM latches were made of the very flexible PLASTIC, perhaps polypropylene.
I love it when Uncle Sandy gets pissed! Tell’um all about it Sandy!
Peace
J
I love Sandy rants.
It's catharsis for every engineer that has tried to explain something to people with a little knowledge and a lot of opinions.
Sandy Rocks!!! 💪
By the way, I know that since the 90s, I have a motorcycle Honda NSR 125, with Al cast frame, which I had a front collision and bent the front fork. Guess what, the frame was fine, replaced the damaged parts and ridin' again!
At that time, a friend of mine had similar crash, but with a Yamaha with Al bended and welded. The motorcycle was totaled because of twisted frame...
I'm not worried at all about the castings. Stamped steel with bend and warp well before it totally fails. The casting will remain rigid and retain it's shape much longer but will eventually shatter or have big chunks break off if hit hard enough. Either way, if the car is hit hard enough to shatter the casting, it's a write-off no matter what it's made of.
They are already preparing casting repair parts, so if a smaller part of the casting breaks off in a common way you can cut away part of the original and drill holes using a template and bolt on the retrofit piece. Not always a write-off.
@@briansilver9652Even so, that is much more labor-intensive than the traditional methods. Still more expensive insurance and an inferior structure after the "repair"
If you hit your car so hard that the castings shatter and think you could hit a stamped steel car equally hard and have it not be an absolute total loss, you're so wrong it's funny!
@@MrCarGuyThats disengenuous. Crumple zones can be replaced and steel can be bent back into place. But it will NEVER have the structural integrity it did originally. Doesnt matter if you are talking steel or aluminum, once cold deformation has occured, the structural integrity is out the window.
@@MrCarGuyhow much to rebuild the entire front end of a 1988 z-24? I did it for $500. I am sure you would charge more than that. Sure, the paint would match, the radiator would have mounts, the AC would have worked, but you can't beat $500. Can you?
oh and when you get into a car accident at over 35mph both cars will most likely be totaled out by the insurance company.
except , only the TESLA passengers are ALIVE.
TESLA model Y , survived by Dropping off 250 foot Clif in Devils Slide , CA .
the Driver , on purpose , Drove off the cliff.
ALL passengers , Survived. the Driver was Arrested/Charged w/ Attempt Murder.
Got a link? Never heard of this before. @@markplott4820
What about micro fractures in the casting?
In Germany, where all cars have mandatory insurance, the rates for any casting car goes up currently as they are expected to be far quicker totaled as the casing can’t be repaired.
They can't hear you, they're busy sucking Elon off.
I can assure you that underwriters are not nearly as intelligent as you'd think. Policies often contain absolutely stupid language which lets consumers settle cases against them and then they keep the same language, allowing more consumers to do the stupid thing the policy is not supposed to cover. Worked in the industry, and they're by no means as smart as engineers.
But yes, we've seen disgusting rises in insurance costs in the UK as well, and the sentiment seems to be it's nothing to do with the actual costs of crashes, or risk involved. It's not as if we have a sudden rise in drink driving here, because no-one can afford booze anymore. :D
@@jonevansauthor sure, I agree that this must not mean anything but either a money grab, or just belts and suspenders for something that is unproven in mass and thus played overly safe. But Sandy‘s demonstration left some questions unanswered to me. Ok, cast aluminum may be less easy deformed and be able to absorb a lot more force without plastic deformation. But I don’t know if Medium impacts that would be able to be bent or just replaced with some welds in steel would result in a totaled car with a casting. Good thing we will know it soon enough with many OEMs going forecasting now.
I love Sandy telling us what he REALLY thinks! More to the point, it is important for engineers to be able to demonstrate what's going on, rather than talk about it and toss numbers around.
I've had a few times in my career where I had to create IRRERFUTABLE demos that would be intuitively clear to non-engineers. Those were some fun days! But I didn't get to use a sledgehammer...
Hilarious! His example of an engine casting strength is right on. If you actually have engineering experience you can visualize the effect of forces in 3 dimensions by just conceptualizing the problem and the physics. That takes years of actually doing Engineering. Sandy is there.
Correct. You should be able to visualise forces including kinetic & potential energy. Which is tough for most folks to do.
RANT MODE ONE, YES PLEASE
DUMB zzzzombies
Best line is the engine casting vs. welding 10:30 & and brains. Sandy is an honest and genuine personality and the Munro team is impressive.
I’m pretty sure Sandy could figure out a way to destroy the casting if he wanted to, but the point of the video is that with modern Al alloys and casting methods, cast structures seem to be the future from a cost and material superiority standpoint for the application.
"This is Sandy being unhappy". LOL You are Legendary!
Could you explain the desire for stronger parts in this context? As a layman, I had read that you specifically want weaker parts that crumple to absorb the crash energy better. Wouldn't these very strong castings have a higher cabin intrusion possibility? Obviously they thought of this and it's not a problem, but an explainer for the lay person would be helpful!
Sandy love your videos. And retired engineer here so for what it's worth, when you demonstrated the sledgehammer impact on the Model 3 stamped/welded steel and Model Y casting wouldn't some of the energy from the blow have been attenuated by the excessive movement of the casting. Newtons 1st and 3rd?
The methodology was pretty bad in that the longitudinal would be designed to compress rather than torque, as well as the parts moved which is actually why some cars are designed to disintegrate as the kinetic energy is displaced by more motion. The problem is, I don't think that part is going to break, and as such, I think he's right in the result, and I do not really doubt his explanation on the heads. My question is whether the car is societally good as it would be taking up resources that might be needed elsewhere. It's quick, strong, and cheap, but my question is whether it is wasteful for what the part needs to do. Considering that aluminum has some good properties in terms of abundance and considering it can reach levels of lithium by having dual channel electrons, is Tesla eating up potential battery resources?
@@ronaldking1054 I don't think we're going to run out of aluminum.
@@jamesvandamme7786 Yes, we are recycling aluminum for no reason.
Sandy, don't let your blood pressure get riled up by people who are ignorant. Have a whisky or a beer. Your demonstration is an education to anyone who wants to learn and should be given with love to the simple children not with venom. Keep that ticker going, we need these videos.
Agreed... Sandy is trying to fix stupid. You cant fix stupid.
Most _Munro Live_ clips I watch have me interested...unless they have me fascinated. They give me a terrific insight into engineering and design. I have a background in chemistry and biochemistry - I doubt I had the mathematics to do engineering - but that doesn't mean I don't understand and appreciate what Sandy and co. talk about. These clips are great.
We had this kind of demonstration with the initial reveal of the Cybertruck with Franz von Holzhausen obviously pulling his blows with a sledgehammer. If it's not carried out in a conrolled manner on some kind of test rig then as a test/demonstration it's just not trustworthy though the second demonstration was definitely better than the first.
Sandy may well be right in saying that the Aluminium is stronger than the pressed steel but this is not the way to prove it.
It's more like a theatrical stunt.
To be fair the casting should have been bolted to something. It moving aborves a lot the strking force. But again, I'm not even sure that a stronger body makes it safer. That's why crumple zones were designed. Having a accident on a ridid body it's a recipe for a lot of broken bones. What matters most is repairability afte the accident also, but I'm sure making the cars faster outweights all the cons and I'm sure Tesla engineers desing the cars to have the least chance of inuries when in an accident.
Ok. This was enjoyable. And revealing. The Munro crew knows what they’re doing.
I hope I seek the truth with as much passion as you do at 75. Blessing to have you around Sandy. Thank you.
Hmm.. substantial transfer of momentum when hitting the castings because they were movable, whilst the steel items were more rigidly fixed allowing more transfer of impact force. Not likely to change the outcome but...
The second hit on the casting was from above, so basically no transfer of momentum. NO change of outcome😉
I agree with you on this but the doubters will point out that rear cast piece is loose on the floor and is moving out of the way when you strike it. Its not fixed in place to recieve the hit.
Sandy specifically mentioned that and then did a follow up with one in place.
My goodness! That was the most fun I've had watching Sandy in a long time! Great video demonstration. 👍
Awesome awesome...start the week with a Sandy rant. Priceless.
Sandy you are amazing! Good work. They will not learn, but at least it was for for the rest of us.
I have no formal structural engineering training, but it seems to me that it’s like comparing apples to oranges. I can see the giga casting is thicker and has strategically placed re enforcements cast into the unit where the flat thin steel sheets have none. Seems like a no brainer that the casting will hold up better from such a hit.
So i totally agree that the castings are stonger than the welded sheet metal. However, don't you want these parts to crumple in a large crash to absorb alot of the energy of the crash? Will having a casting just make the accelerations on the passengers worse? I guess in a really bad crash they will keep the pasenger compartment safer.
You have the bumper and the longitudinal to absorb energy and crumple. The rest of the body needs to remain strong so it doesn't bend into the cabin. The model Y with castings has the highest crash safety scores..ever.
"Ponder that moron... ponder that."
Yep, I agree. Well stated.
Epic Sandy, watching you tear through ignorant internet trolls, using a 16 pound sledgehammer! oh that soooo made my day. Thanks.
Thor with his mighty hammer, demonstrating the strength of castings.
Excellent rant Sandy.
I feel good about a friend who just bought a model Y.
Sandy is a fact-slinging, sledge hammering fantastic passionate engineer. The best kind. Keep up the great work!
This rant with a sledgehammer is not engineering.
New channel idea "sandy hits back" nothing but videos of sandy and the team venting the last 20 yrs of knuckle busters.
Great demo! It would be super interesting to see these under a press so you could measure when each of them failed and how they failed. You could test a simple welded box vs a cast box of the same weight but shaped for strength.
Well, the problem is that the demonstration could lead some people to think that castings are TOO rigid for offering good shock absorption, and consequently a safe car in case of an accident...
Good point. Designing "crumple zones" into castings sounds like a whole other art.
Your opinion that implies that steel can be safe is not wise. A steel structure that bends or that shears under the force of an extreme impact can be harmful to a passenger.
Crumpling is only important in certain parts of the car, other parts you want to be more rigid.
True but new Teslas are the safest cars tested so castings must work
It fell off a cliff before 4 people inside still alive 😂 what more proof we need have 4 people drive a Ford off a cliff and see the result
I never thought it was such a huge difference. Insurance companies would still write off both cars tho... 🤔
TESLA Ins is way Cheaper , and REWARDS Drivers for Good FSD training.
@@markplott4820 When FSD does work well (end of this decade is my guess), I wouldn't be surprised if your insurance rate is based on % you let the car drive vs % you drive. Meaning your driving is what makes insurance more expensive.
@@whattheschmidtFSD 12 is already better than the average driver. Give it another year or 2 and it will be near flawless.
All I care about is how safe the car is. The rest can be replaced.
@@themonsterunderyourbed9408 You have no stats to prove this
We need more comments to rile up Sandy. Great morning workout, thanks for helping us all get healthy.
Showed this to my 90-year-old dad, he said he needs a 16 pounder laying his recliner as well.
I'm convinced. Thanks, Sandy!
At the same volume, steel is stronger. This is what people tend to think applies. But, at the same weight, alu is stronger. That's why it's used in airplanes. More strength per weight. So you can make a casting using more volume of alu compared to steel and make it stronger, while lighter. Alu is a more expensive material, but a single casting vs multiple stamped panels makes manufacturing actually cheaper as well.
I think technically you could make an engine with cast steel, but that would be a massively heavy engine and very hard to machine. It just makes no sense to use anything else but cast alu.
Are old engines solid iron or steel?
Old engines used to be made like that.
I worked in a body shop some 25 years ago. The damage on the steel parts could be repaired, even 25 years ago. The castings are stiffer, no question. They are almost surely stronger. But seeing castings with holes through them worries me. That sort of defect, especially when it is totally internal (i.e. the crack is there, but not at the surface where it can be seen) has been implicated in several aircraft incidents. What I worry about is sudden brittle failures. Cars live in a much more hostile environment than aircraft and are lucky to see even 1% of the inspections and preventative maintenance. I think casting can be better than welded up sheet steel, but I am not confident that the giga castings that are being produced today will be better over the long haul.
For reference I was one of the team that did a repair that cost $85k on a 89 S class 2 door. It was almost totaled with less than 1000 miles on it. It came down to saving the instrument cluster. I had to break the windshield and cut the dashboard into pieces to get it out because the A pillar was compressed in by about 8". Amazingly all the doors still opened, closed and latched. I had the entire interior out of the car for 2 months. Mercedes sent an engineer to inspect the work about once a week. When we were done even they said they could not see any sign of damage.
Other facts:
1. The driver of the Bronco (not a Bronco II) that hit him was dead at the scene even though he was wearing his seatbelt. He was running from police and the speed at impact was estimated to be between 80 and 90 MPH.
2. The driver of the Mercedes had a minor concussion and spent a few days under observation. He initially thought he was fine until he realized that he didn't know which intersection the wreck happened at in spite of the trail of destruction his car left.
3. The impact knocked the Mercedes almost half a block through people's front yards.
4. I did not have even a single screw left, nor did I have to replace any other than the ones that mounted the dash to the body.
Questions for everyone: Could a Tesla hit that hard be fixed? Could it be fixed for less than replacement cost? Should a car be built that tough or should they be softer like Volvos of the day were?
That casting is amazing! Thin wall over vast areas, mind blowing.
I was involved with making the tooling for the aluminum 4.6 L Lincoln Mk IIIV engine (Wisconsin Pattern, Racine WI). I thought we really had something maintaining a 4.5 mm wall thickness throughout, lots a ribbing, 6mm fillets on everything, cross hatching in the valley to mix the hotter aluminum as it came together. It was my second engine block and i learned so much from it!
But when i look at the Tesla castings, i realize how far the technology has come.
Sandy! Don't burn your computer. I'm a New Yorker and I admit, I'm an idiot! That's why I learn from your channel. People, repeat after me, "Aluminum castings are safer than steel!"
Not just stronger than steel, but stronger, more resilient than stamped, welded sheets of steel. And then the strength of aluminum alloys relative to the same mass of steel is way higher.
Great demonstration. You're probably aware there was one auto engine made of sheet metal parts, the Crosley COBRA (copper-brazed). If modern coolants were available in the 40's it might not have had the corrosion problems that killed it.
thank you sandy. your youtube subs know yur passion for facts. my professor at u. arkan(1970) ranted about DR. Deming. i didn't
grasp how important DR Deming was to manufacturing and what you mean to us subs learning about current issues. thank you bring this channel to life. i so agree with your policy on employment!
Aluminum does have one unfortunate tendency -- it is prone to metal fatigue much more so than steel. Essentially Aluminum has zero elastic limit. I.e., any flexing causes metal fatigue which is *cumulative*. Hopefully the enginerds have mitigated flexing but I doubt it is zero, and it is well to note that aluminum aircraft spars must undergo detailed inspection on a regular basis using penetrant dye or x-rays to detect any incipient cracks. Maybe Tesla's magic alloy fixes that but if so I'd like to hear about it. In the meantime, eyeballing the casting doesn't prove that there was no damage. Magnaflux it. Surely Sandy you understand that dents aren't the only form of damage and that ultimate strength isn't the only determinant of applicability.
Some people probably post that stuff just to get under your skin, and try to make you do stuff like this (to be honest, I love the rants btw 😅)
Love this! Go Sandy! And thank you, that was actually very very informative in a way you may not have realized. I’ve heard you say aluminum is stronger but to take a sledgehammer and smash both of them and show us the direct difference is a pretty amazing example of a further advantage Tesla has that even I didn’t realize the extent of. I realize that what sandy knows if off the charts, but it’s sometimes hard for the average person to understand to extent of his knowledge. We don’t know, what we don’t know, thanks for putting us in the know.
We all learned something Sandy! Great question! Thank you Sandy
MUNRO live - you are a GREAT human Sandy, I love you.
"Ponder that, Morons!" 😂😂
Peter Gabriel approves this video.
It didn't do anything because it didn't have anything holding it in place. If you throw a ball at a paper, it'll just move with the ball, but if you secure it down it'll tear.
Thank you Sandy for the practical demonstration and explanation...... and don't let that sledge hit you in the shins!!!!!
I didn't get that must from this demo. I would have preferred to see this demonstrated with something a bit more reproducible, maybe some sort of metered press, or more reproducible impact test (Maybe a point pressure would fracture the casting but just put a hole in the sheet metal?) . With the sledge hammer I didn't really know what I was seeing. Maybe under a different type of force the casting would fracture while the stamped metal would deform. Also there is the question of if each type of structure was suitable for the use case (Maybe the stamped metal was fine for the use and has some cost or other benefits?)
If you look at 4:07 at 4K you can see that it fractured after the sledge hammer hit it.
Sandy should have written the guys name on the frames as targets 😂
This demo made me even more happy at ordering a Model Y, which I will pick up in a few days.
Sandy brilliant as always keep up the great work 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
It get serious... Sandy was a sledgehammer.
Got to love a sandy rant 😂
Love a good Sandy rant. And the final explanation of the strength of an engine cylinder block landed the last hammer blow to the doubting numpties out there.
Oh Sandy, I love youre passion. Never stop that, please! 🌻
When Sandy rants, I click.
C'mon Andy, tell us what you really think!😁
Sandy Randy featuring Peter Gabriel - "Sledgehammer". In Germany we call this tool the "Meinungsverstärker" a.k.a. opinion amplifier. 🤣
EXACTLY
Love it, right on point, clear, lucid, simple.
Problem with the first casting: it moved across the floor which definitely adsorbed some of the hit...Second time was more reasonable...
YES
Are you STILL "going there"?
smh
YOU , still cant BREAK a TESLA Gigacasting , let alone one made in a 9000 TON machine.
There might be enough dumb people out there that all the computers in existence will need to be burned 😂
He has a point. The energy from the hit was transferred into motion of the whole casting rather than the spot of impact.
If this commentary was far off basis, Sandy wouldn’t have done a day 2. It’s a fair criticism, even if it didn’t make a difference.
In the end, casting > welding 100+ steel parts for this application (and I assume most others).
Can't you just take a sample and do a tensile test?
Well in this case aluminum would lose the battle…
Thank you for showing us!
Imagine having this much lack of self control.
No wonder Cory left
Sandy there was a sheet metal engine made by GM.... but it NEVER made it to production! Great job - love your comments. Spot on.
Worth testing I'm sure. The CIA did have a stamped metal, single shot pistol made to hand out in obscene quantities to foment revolutions. You weren't likely to survive using it though so safety wasn't a consideration.
Sandy,
A work friend of mine, in the engineering/hardware integration group, had an email tag “In God We Trust, everyone else bring data!”. Thanks for SHOWING us the difference!! Impressive and clear strength differences in favor of the castings!!
Well this is a great way to start the week! Great rant Sandy, and thanks for the video so we can help share the knowledge/facts.
Prozac for Sandy! Great teacher! 😊
The fact thats its not attached to anything means that the casting can move with the hammer instead of having to absorb the impact so not really a fair comparison.
Clearly you did not watch the full video.
I don’t doubt that Sandy is correct, but yes this was an important difference in how the samples were tested. Not expecting lab conditions, but that was a big parameter
He knows that. The front casting was attached.
DFA/DFM advocates love castings in this sort of application, because one big part replaces 50 little ones that need to be fixtured and spot-welded. And while I certainly believe that the casting can be designed with multiple load paths to be stronger and the aluminum provides better long-term corrosion resistance, its unlikely the end design will be lighter and the cycle time of all the operations needed to produce the final cast part will be daunting.
And once the insurance companies get involved, they are going to push back on cars getting totaled out from moderate rear impacts instead of being repairable. Maybe we'll see these being fixed someday on Mechanic Steve's YT channel, but not by the average body shop down the street.
Your right in the fact that its not lighter. The Model Y with castings does weigh more the the Y without them. Not a huge difference so the trade offs are still worth it, but it is there. The rear castings with the crush cans built in can already be fixed in a rear end collision. The damaged part can be cut out and a replacement cast of just the crush can (made by Tesla) can be welded in.
Remember, Tesla provides their own insurance in some states, so they think about these things way more then you will ever do.
Just can't believe how this video could be possibly produced by Munro, it is paranoid
He's shown in the past.. yeah the casting isn't really a weight savings as many predicted.. what it IS, is a cost savings, even with a higher cost material. With significant time and complexity savings. Reducing scrap.. reducing time in assembly and man hours is huge. And shows how and why Tesla is able to reduce their pricing over time as their production at scale keeps increasing. And it adds to a better overall build quality as well, with much less tolerance stackups. As for the crash properties.. clearly it's at least on par, if not an improvement. And as for repairs.. Idk.. seems very specific to each accident if it was cheaper or more expensive to repair. I call that a wash in general.
The casting not being bolted down allowed to deflect the impact energy as opposed to the bolted frame which absorbed the blow. In other words, metal is ductile, while the casting is stronger but more brittle. I am not saying the casting is weaker, just pointing out the difference in the test procedure. Cheers, love the rants.
Simply love Sandy!! ❤❤ Such a passionate engineer and respect to him!!
Good demo Sandy! It's crazy how clueless people think they know everything..
This may be entertaining, but it has little to do with toughness in crash load paths. It reminds me of a 12" high balsa wood tower I made in 8th grade. It weighed half an ounce and held up 270# without breaking, but then someone held it non-gingerly and broke a strut accidentally.
The IIHS tests are all anyone should reference.
I love thos new morning workouts with Sandy series...can't wait for leg routine
I F#@% Love you Sandy! This Engineer knows his shit. Don't ever cross Mr. Munro with you non-sense
Hardly a fair test. If you hit that casting with exactly the same force under the same conditions we would be able to compare more accurately. This is just a publicity stunt
Yeah at least fixture the test article. 8:24 now I am left wondering if Monroe and associates thinks this is a valid way to perform a structural test. Seems to me like he didn’t expect it would slide across the floor, but wanted to release the video anyway. Clearly the aluminum casting has superior strength had the test been performed correctly, it’s reinforced with ribs and gussets versus the single wall steel. Not hard to prove with a quick test setup.
Rather that waste energy hitting a casting compared to steel, take the hammer and use it to knock some sense into the Tesla "Engineer" who thinks removing the indicator stalk on the updated model 3 is progress! Obviously this person has never been to Europe or the UK where we have roundabouts and quick left/right turns. The engineer must be mad to think this is safe let alone progress🤔!
Sandy, you acknowledge that the aluminum castings moved when you hit them. That would have dissipated the energy. It would be interesting to see something like this where they both were loose or both fixed in place.
Not disputing castings are stronger. Cast iron vs cast aluminum, I think the iron would have won. (They don't make aluminum diesel engines after all)
Mr Munro, a truly excellent engineer with tons of experience and boy does it show.........Love his attitude to folks who know very little about the transportation industry!!!!!
People on every comment section ever thinking they are smarter or know more than people like Munro. This man has at least one degree and decades of experience, is considered an global industry expert on not only design but material science. Watching him call out the idiots and tell them to STFU, well it made my day.
No person is infallible. Appeal to authority is a fallacy for that reason alone
He's not right about everything - see Sandy on UK plugs vs US and UK electricians on UK plugs & sockets. But he's not an electronics engineer, or an electrician. I'm pretty sure he is a well respected expert on car body work and how to make it so I'm happy to accept his stance on this because it's also backed up by his team of car engineers, and of course, the safety ratings, and the Tesla engineers.