Mach-E Suspension & High Voltage Wiring Compared to Tesla Model Y
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2021
- Sandy brings in a couple of new characters to discuss suspension and HV wiring on the Mach-E.
2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E E12: Suspension & HW Wire Comparison
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Outro:
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#ford #tesla #mache - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Cory is a great co-star! Very clear in his presentation and great eye for detail. He definitely adds a lot.
Thanks!
Couldnt agree more.
Agreed
Indeed!
That Sandy has recognized the kinds of talent his organization needs to do a good job and has found people with those talents says as much about his analytic and design skills as the tech details he presents. Since he keeps calling himself "old", I wonder who he's developing to replace him.
I love this: 10% Technology; 90% psychology; thank you for showing this guys!
Yes that was a spot on comment.
12:12 this is where his good comment starts
It is why smart design teams always have new engineers who question everything being constantly introduced. In a very large company, one way to create high value employees is to copy what doctors have done, rotate new people through departments s they can not only see the whole product picture, but experience different ways of thinking. My most valuable insight as a systems engineer came from a book on organizational management.
@@psdaengr911 When I was managing a group, I set a cap of two years on someone handling a set of responsibilities. In my industry, two years is enough to see probably 99% of the situations you will run into, (I have 4 decades in) and see how seasonality impacts each desk. I dictated the moves, because I found that it actually helped if I said, "This move is my call, it is training for you, anything goes wrong it's on me, so don't sweat it", and found that folks would actually endeavor to find and fix their own mistakes early, even though I made it clear I would take the hit. Five years after I left the company, they closed that operation, and my staff-members were able to show more rounded-out skills on their resumes. If they did not retire, they went to work for competitors or clients.
I can definitely see why Corey is President! I love the contrast in thoughts between Sandy and Corey, and the respect.
Yes! This video gets my "Wholesome Award" of the week. Munro & Co seems to be a great place to work if you are serious about engineering AND business. (You just need to work a bit with Representation....;-) )
An engineering student who really wants to be a engineer should watch this channel
Engineers today are much better at this stuff than days gone by. Never underestimate the power of the bean counters though to dictate decisions.
Everyone is a weapon at this place!
This is what capitalism looks like when its functioning properly.
Indeed - these guys know their stuff, work well together, and are clearly an excellent team.
Another educational video showing what innovation is all about, learning with Sandy is fun.
This video has more useful info than some entire courses I took in engineering school lol
I like this new guy he’s a natural and brought a lot to the conversation a great compliment to Sandy!
I could watch this all day! (Wife rolls her eyes) Even WeberAuto mentioned Munro live as he disassembled the Tesla Model 3/Y electric motors.
The guide at 9:27 is there because of an interlock pin on the back of the cover. Cover gets removed, interlock opens to disable HV. The guide pin keeps you from pulling the cover off without being straight to avoid damaging the pins.
Daaaamn! This was really telling about how the design and engineering teams work at each company
FORD engineer don't communicate, share ideas for Commonality, and to save weight.
It is likely that the heavier cable connector was chosen on the front motor high voltage cable because it is in the crush zone. The upper connector could be crushed against the firewall, especially if centerpunching a pole. The front battery connector is more exposed to being hit by road debris or bits that come lose in a high energy crash.
For an example of the second case see the latest video on the Rich Rebuilds channel.
@@Miata822 - the BEST part, is no part at all.
It shows how their corporate structure is killing them as well. Imagine not putting forth a better idea because it would stop you from getting promoted... yet at Tesla if you don't innovate you are out the door! Who do you think will be the leader in anything if that's your working environment. It's painfully obvious that we have good engineers but too much shallow management and accountant gumming up the works at the legacy companies.
@@markplott4820 Like you, I also enjoy walking. But if I'm going to drive an electric car there is no getting around having a wire between the battery and the motor. Might as well make it a safe wire.
Just a few Munro engineers hanging out in the shop geeking out on engineering stuff . . . love it!!
Who else understands less than 15% of what they re talking about, but still enjoys their insights? 😂
I couldn't have come up with a better summary than that!
The suspension-coupling bit flummoxed me; but other than it was clear.
Hard for people with so much knowledge to explain things at a basic level.
Sometimes, it helps me to go out to my garage and look at what is on my own car. Sandy & Friends do a great job showing the parts they are discussing, but it really helps me to touch and poke at real objects to supplement what I learn here. But that aside, anything mass produced well just blows my mind.
I feel like we're in an engineering review. Very nice.
Glad you liked it!
Something that Ford should’ve had a few times before getting to this point
I hope you have Corey and more episodes he is really good at explaining the nitty gritty differences between the Tesla and Ford I find that very enjoyable
Agree. He speaks clearly with obvious knowledge of the subject.
Enjoyable and informative.
I love how Cory can barely contain himself with all the things he wants to share! I recognize that passion! And with regards to Sandy,... boss as always! Great team!
Love these breakdowns and analysis of the engineering and why design choices may have been made. Keep up the great content Sandy and team!
Thanks, will do!
"These connectors suck" *connector falls down* Love Sandy being blunt and honest there. Hope the OEMs are listening!
Obviously he's never had to work on a vehicle driven everyday that gets dirt/debris hammared against these connectors because if he did he would know that those "BOSCH" type connectors are trash and break on the technician end. Hope they stick with the bolt up design from a repair standpoint for longevity and fastener superiority! Perfect example on how engineers only design vehicles but never work on they
@@kolinreichstein3399 - Dirt and debris on those connectors? I’m guessing not anywhere near as much as on an ICE engine.
engineers at my job can't even decide between metric or standard screws.
So 'metric' is not standard?
Do you work for Ford? Lol.
I just drove back home on Hwy 5 from Orange County to S.F. Bay Area and counted 50 car carriers headed Southbound. Each one had 9 or 10 Tesla’s on it. I drove by the dealership near home and there were more than 100 cars in the lot. None were available to look at because they were already sold and waiting for the owners to come in and pick them up that day. They had just received their first Model S Plaid and it was also being picked up. They said Tesla had sold out every car they had last quarter.
My real life experiences with Tesla, both owning, driving, interacting with the service personnel and seeing cars driving about is the same as you describe in that it flies in the face of the FUD that you see around. That's why I like these videos, you get the straight dope. And I don't just mean everything is positive about Tesla, they aren't super heroes - but they deserve some way better press than they get. I'm in Europe btw.
Now Tesla needs to get to a point where they're actually making money on every car they sell. Not just some of the models at some of specs. All of them. When they're still losing $900+ per car sold (as of July '21) they need to do hijinks like credits trading and dogecoin dabbling to turn revenue. They NEED to sell their cars for revenue so that they can continue to exist and we all benefit. The long game here.
Same here. Drove south on I-5 about 2 weeks ago and virtually all the car carriers headed south were loaded with Teslas. Must have been from Fremont. On the way back all carriers heading north were loaded with mixed models and makes and a lot of used cars.
The amount of knowledge of this team is something else. Also, love the way they communicate. Everyone at their own pace. Each giving room to the others to think and speak there mind. No egoism, no each protecting their separate island. Everything is just solid skills, team play and real mutual respect.
Yes the co-host? can helpe Munro with metric conversion, widout Munro "louse face" He take in the information and continue, now then he know what length they speak about.
They just tell it like it is, great.
Cory is a natural!
It is funny when you get to the end of the video and realize 18 minutes have gone by yet it only feels like maybe 8. Great videos as always!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Cory is such a great explainer.
This sort of analysis is absolutely fascinating. Just wow.
I enjoy watching analysis through deconstruction because it's so simple and straightforward compared to designing from "scratch", and in many ways easier compared to figuring out how to transition to a new system to produce a new design. Automotive engineers have don't need to replace drive trains of vehicles as they drive down the road, and many have no experience in manufacturing or management. Sandy isn't an automotive engineer, he's closer to a classically trained general engineer.
@@psdaengr911 Sandy started as a tool & die maker, later ar Ford WORKED, got TRAINING, got promoted up to executive home office position, headed up design of Ford en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Vulcan_engine (installed first time robots at Ford, since leaving Ford he has consulted/trained for Ford. He also worked on the 787 and nuke subs for both US & UK.
Tends to make one lean toward Tesla.
@@Chainyanker007 Wrong.
Great info from the guys. Awesome! Cory really likes that optimized cable :)
This was really interesting! Cory, loved your commentary. A lot of these issues shows the difference between design passion and "my job" when going above and beyond.
Glad you enjoyed it!
All of those cooling hoses on the front induction motor looks like a mess
The front motor is PM.
Massive leaks coming to the Mach-e.
@@markplott4820 EV cooling systems have almost no pressure in them, just what the circulating pumps generate. Coolant in EVs never gets as hot as the water heater in your home. Look at the hoses under your washing machine for rubber hoses that are unlikely to leak for the decades long potential life of the machine.
@@markplott4820 About leaks and how they are fixed, you might want to watch this: th-cam.com/video/vVSw3KSevEc/w-d-xo.html
@Alfred Wedmore please don't try to compare a jet engine to ICE, much less a Electric motor designed 'engine bay'. We're talking worlds apart on many aspects. And most jet engines you've seen in any helicopter were designed back in 60's or 70's.. lets not pretend they couldn't do with a bit of innovation too. Maintenance is less of a concern when you engineer the shit to not need constant maintenance in the first place. Helicopters is one thing.. they experience massive vibration stresses constantly.. way more then any car will ever see. Just toss this comparison out the window. It has no real useful merit
Cory is clean cut, articulate, and sharp as a tack. This is how engineers used to be.
Thanks Aussie2u!
def , lets get more Cory! He's amazing at this
I don’t recall For suggesting the Mach-E was going to use VW’s MEB Platform. I recall Ford saying that they use the MEB platform for OTHER vehicles, not the Mach-E. It’s the Ford Stromer that’s to be the first MEB-based Ford, I believe. Munro and his suspension expert are incorrect to suggest Ford ever said the Mach-E would be MEB-based, I think. Otherwise a really good video.
This was a very good episode. I hope Cory will join Sandy more often, he sounds like a smart guy.
The wiring is traditionally ignored and told to connect the dots. At Tesla, the electrical wiring is a core technology. The wiring team can dictate component changes to so save overall system cost.
Have Corey on more! Awesome breakdown of the completely different approach of each Teams' Engineers.
Very enlightening! My experiences with both vehicles has been superficial (consumer level)… but this is in-depth! Tesla haters talk about panel gaps and not much else. This kind of objective analysis with side-by-side comparisons should be more widely publicized!
Thank you guys!
As a recently retired German auto repair shop owner, here in SoCal, love these engineering dives. Tesla FTW❤️
Suspension guy: "maybe we'll pop up a picture of what that looks like"
Other guy: "yeah... yeah......."
Me: *still waiting for picture to pop up*
🤣👍
One of, if not your very best episode! Cory(sp?) is one of your best presenters so far. Straight to the point w/o a ton of useless info. Very succinct. I hope he contributes to more videos!
Munro's Engineering Design Philosophy. Great Value.
More Corey!
This should be done with every product. Once manufacturers know that they are being looked at, they might come up with better solutions.
This is more informative than anything in school
In general, I would agree. But as an engineer I’m well aware you’d never get anything to market seeking perfection in design. 😆
@@TheBeingReal True, if getting to market is the main object or even the only objective.
TheBeingReal as another engineer, I would respect with the design being good, but the execution being faulty. A good design means you had foresight but a poor execution means you had unexpected issues along the way. But that is not what happened here. The problem is it’s the polar opposite. Their design is horribly lacking yet they’ve put just enough effort in that the mach e seems to run. For now.
The real test is 5-10 years down the road when all these added parts and unnecessary connections start failing in spades. That’ll be the real test.
@@mhfs61 Getting to market is a must.
6:10 says it all...Tesla is so proud of their engineering, they branded it. A mircocosim of the Tesla vs. the world dynamic...and Tesla nailed it!
It really stands out when you can see two engineers designed the same thing separately. With HV cables being the most expensive wiring I guess you want them as short as possible. Also having a quick release without having to poke a screwdriver around is probably a good idea. Less time having to touch HV connectors and a clean snap in/out connection.
Kudos to you and your entire team for just diving right in and exposing the raw truth without all of the sugar coating and corporate crap, just pure raw honesty, the way it should be! Thanks.
Henry Ford pioneered vertical integration and doing everything in-house.
But there was a ridiculous push for focus on ‘core competency’ and outsourcing in the 80s, presumably the bright spark MBAs in Ford followed the fashion.
Henry Ford famously pushed suppliers to conform to his requirements. He did much to build the Detroit supplier industry.
It's what is killing them, so they better go back to vertical while they have the chance.
@@dr-k1667 vertical also kills evolution and flexibility.
@@alanmay7929 How so? Tesla is vertical, flexible, innovative and currently the last word in auto evolution.
@@MarkXHolland Tesla is also a clean-sheet company. Problem with "legacy" anything is the legacy. It's much harder to change a culture than it is to create a brand new one; starting at the top and going all the way down.
One of the most valuable videos Ford engineers could possibly watch.
It's likely most of them have watched by now. Hopefully they keep an open mind rather than being defensive.
The general public, i included, would never learn about car quality in such detail without Munro Live.
Thanks Arcadius!
I think exposing the lack of communication within legacy automakers exposes in part why they will likely fail to make the the transition to electric. Its just one glaring exemple amongst many to point out. I believe legacy auto will have to go out of business and from the ashes the "better engineers" will reroup to create EV's from the ground up. No dealership networks, no crippling dept, no pension plans to pay, no motor and transmission plants to mothball, no expensive upper management to pay for that doesn't do much for sales...
I used to think that but listening to programs like this and other engineering channels I've realised that the shear mass of the old legacy automotive companies is both their hindrance to change but what will also keep them around.
They're to big to lose but at the same time they have to stay relevant to make money... so they'll change... just very... very... slowly.
The Mach-E to me seems almost like an forced design to prove they're still in the game, the fact it is despite its fault a good car is evidence Ford is going to stick around.
The F-150 Lightning is I feel their first real blank piece of paper ground up electric vehicle and Munro's Team breakdown of that vehicle is going to be the real test of Ford's EV credentials.
@@helenlawson8426 Dear Helen, I wish I shared your optimism regarding large legacy auto but your example of the F-150 Lightening is a good one but ultimately the inefficiency of its battery pack, limited battery supply and weak charging infrastructure and no proper over the air update capabilities and no full self-driving will make this difficult. Raw material for batteries and cell production will either kill legacy auto or reduce sales by a lot. Even if they signed a deal with Tesla and licenced all the technologies including the FSD, Over the air updates, software stack/Tesla OS they would still be looking for enough batteries meet the demand.
@@simonpageau6925 That's funny because the F-150 does have. Proper self-driving mode. Called Blue Cruise and the F-150 and the Mach e have over the air updates also. Only thing I agree on is our battery tech is a little bit on the low range. I'm sure they'll get more from the Volkswagen merger
There was never meant to be any commonality with VW's MEB platform for the Mach-E, that partnership is for a future Ford product that they will manufacture in Europe that sits on the MEB platform. Why they couldn't use the Mach-E's platform they had already designed is another question, I can only guess it's more expensive to manufacture?
Correct. I was about to make the same point but you got there first.
The Mach-E is on the large side for Euro buyers. 70% of units there are city cars, superminis, and compacts (segments A-C). Mach-E seems to be small D segment.
For the European market Ford needs a segment-B electric vehicle, to replace its Fiesta/Ka+/B-Max models. It makes sense to share a platform with the electric successor to the VW Polo/Audi A/SEAT Ibiza/Škoda Fabia.
That still leaves Ford on its own to create a segment C electric successor to the Ford Focus, which would directly compete with VW's ID.3.
The Ford on an ID4 platform will be a European model positioned below the Mach E in the European Ford lineup.
Exactly
I really like the round table format of this video. It was like we weren’t in the room. Just engineers talking about the design and what could/should be changed. I would really love to see more like these.
Insightful guys, superb clarity on the different mindsets of the competitors!
This video is AMAZING. The cable connectors are a small detail that embodies the entire approach of the designer - do the engineers even talk to each other!? Is the OEM fenced in by relying on off-the-shelf parts from suppliers? LOVE the discussion and inferences that Sandy and Cory make about HOW the companies operate based on such small details. That cable really tells you everything you need to know about the future of the auto industry. We are THRILLED to be interviewing Cory this week and very happy to see him doing more in front of the camera. Thanks again for the amazing content!
Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
So great sandy and team!!! You guys are fantastic. So happy you’re on TH-cam.
What an amazing difference between old manufacturers and Tesla
Nope
I think we need a new word for what Tesla does.
@@timboatfield Innovation
@@royphillips7644 Thats only a part of it
@@timboatfield Innovation covers all. Production, efficiency, technology and physics.
Ford is going to use the VW MEB platform in Europe. Not in the US. The Mach E is not built on that platform so no surprise they are not sharing components or methods.
I get the impression that the Mach E was a special project like the GT40, used to showcase the EV capability that likely won’t be present in any of the other EVs.
MEB platform is a DECADE out of date.
The US made mach E will be made with parts from US suppliers. The European mach E will be made with parts from European suppliers.
@@royphillips7644 at the moment there is no mach-e production in Europe and i am not aware of any plans for the future..all the Mach-E sold in Europe are shipped across the Atlantic and made in Mexico at the moment)
Fords biggest European Factory ( Cologne, Germany) is currently renovated to produce EVs, but as far as i know, not the Mach-E.
@@tzarcoal1018 They will produce it over there. It is their flag ship car.
Best combination having Corey join Sandy in videos. Very clear and gives succinct compare and contrast opinions.
Fantastic video. Love the comparison. More please
More to come!
What I like about you guys is your very thorough! You look and checkout every part which is very good to know really as there is no stone unturned.
Thank You for your integrity.
Good job, guys. This turned out to be one of the best videos yet because you were chatting about the equipment in real time. Pre-planned topics are great, but I really enjoyed the team discovering and discussing things as though you weren't even on camera. Wonderful!
Great to watch you guys! Be happy to see you guys add more reliability insights based on engineering info!
Cory is great....I hope ford is watching this and improve. This review tells competition is between Tesla and legacy oems. It's legacy oem have to fight their own culture and approach to engineering
Munro, you've built something special with this company. Your team is fantastic. Every employee on the camera so far was awesome. Congratulations, you are my role model.
I loved seeing the thought process behind deciphering the vehicle. That was cool.
Thank you guys for this. Amazing thought process and experience!!
It's 10% technology and 90% psychology - AND, these videos are 100% genius. Thank you Sandy!
can't even begin to tell you all how much i enjoy sitting in on Your scrum sessions, its really just an absolute treat to now have the ability to listen in on smart , experienced people discovering and exploring exactly what it is that manufacturers foist upon us.
One question tho, ...why does Munro & Assoc hire super-model engineers/
One of your best, love these, especially the end when he showed us the connector
Artists ALWAYS sign their work (if they are proud of it). As an industrial electrician, I was always leaving my calling card in any panel I rewired and my coworkers asked me why. They would say that if something went wrong they are going to blame you. I know, was my reply.
Also GREAT for reputation!? 😉👍
Really enjoyed the live back and forth as they explored the engineering. Hope u continue this style in more videos
I love the conversation style of this video! Hearing the guys talk it out in real time is fascinating!
Thanks. We will do more in this style.
Superb video guys! Been locked down in home office quarantine for long without any tear down events at work so I will enjoy a lot of the content in this channel.
really liked hearing the conversation between Sandy and Corey during the video felt like I was I getting a behind the senses of how you guys interact when doing these projects, really enjoyed it!
Also, liked Corey giving grades to get a sense of how good the engineering was and the comparison of parts between tesla
Excellent take, Scott!
Cory is a natural. Great job with your clear and concise explanations. Toss in some engineering humor and you will be the man!
At this rate I'll have a whole set of videos on how to take apart my MME when it arrives.
At this rate you'll send it back as soon as it arrives 😉
@@bluetoad2668 why it seems to be getting pretty big praise as a 1st attempt. I love it and can’t wait to see the GT
@@AWDRIFTOI'd rather not pay a lot of money for a first attempt from a company that is so clearly still very much an ICE vehicle manufacturer and which is so clearly below the Tesla model Y. But then again, the Tesla doesn't have a little horse logo 🐎 so there's that. I'm selfish, I'll admit that, but I'm not subsidising Ford while it figures out how to build an EV.
These videos are a Master class in engineering.. thanks guys . AMazing!
I am very happy with your show and the knowledge you demonstrate. So many good analyses of the various EV makers work and results. I will stay a subscriber for a long time.
Great retro engineering style. Like this format, everything is clear, reflection/interpretation aspect is a good idea, just like I do everyday :) Great job !
This is so good. I cant tell you how much of value this has added to my understanding.
Thank you always Sandy!!
I really enjoyed the new format you used with this video. I felt as though we, the viewers, were a ‘fly on the wall’ listening in on some behind the scenes analysis of what goes on at Munro. Highly technical, but then always circling back to the viewer every now and then to bring us up to speed.
Very well done. Could be the best formatted video yet.
Some of the Mach E videos prior to this started feeling a bit like a formal investors presentation or something.
Keep them coming, I can't get enough. Thanks, Sandy and Team.
The amount of stuff we learn from this channel is fantastic.
My procrastination favourite :) thanks all!!!
You're welcome!
The team really shows that we’re in the infancy stages of EVs still. Every video seems to be filled to the brim with potential improvements for every platform.
Yeah, but speaking as a engineer, it also seems very obvious that one of them has a clear lead has borrowed a tag line from apple vs "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
Sandy you have FOREVER killed the showroom salesman 💪💪👏👏👏🙏🙏.. absolutely no way I could ever buy a car without your reviewing it first !
Thank YOU 🙏
Excellent! Love your associate Cory, very knowledgeable!
Thanks Kirk!
Great episode. I have bought a Tesla Y and am trading in my Mache E largely on because of your videos. Really informative. Thanks guys.
You guys have made an old engineer very happy! I love watching you pull things apart and really dig down into the details pointing out the good stuff as well as the flaws. Terrific stuff!!!
Our pleasure!
Great video! Would love to see more like this. Really enjoyed the discussion on suspension components & geometry, and on electrical connectors.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Ahh the Old McPherson setup..I don't know whats going on but I love this
Can't wait to see these guys with the Plaid! The expertise is immense.
There is a Ford engineer seeing this connector discussion, shouting at the screen “that is what I told them too, they wouldn’t listen, something about seniority”
Where's my Ford Pinto!
Let’s see more Al. I get the feeling he really liked being on camera!
Al actually crashed the film session, he didn’t even know we were filming until 10 minutes in. Al will be back for a few videos!
@@MunroLive it gave the whole thing a spontaneous unrehearsed feel which I like, as if maybe I just dropped by for a chat with you guys.
@@MunroLive Uh huh. He is the kid behind the news camera on the street saying "oh I didn't know you were recording"... ;)
Cory is damn sharp!
Thank you once again for sharing your knowledge and experience with us.
learning something new in every episode - keep it up MunroLive team
I really liked interplay of ideas/observations among the engineers. Good stuff!
Zack, always appreciate your videos. This one was more difficult to follow for me because of the angles (can't see what they're talking about or even pointing at most of the time), lack of close ups, lack of explanatory imaging and giving context. Cory holding those two pieces in his hand gave no context for me of how they work differently than the one being pointed to (which I also couldn't see). It was difficult when they were kneeling too. The close up was extremely helpful but the shot of backs is very disconnecting and I wasn't getting any visual cues or information from it. I feel like we might be better served with just a close up still while they're explaining. Just some suggestions from a fan. Keep up the good work. Looking forward to your next videos. Thank you.
I see your point , but too much scripting and staging might hurt the production. These guys are at their best when they can speak, and move about, freely.
I don't mind the style, and this makes it easier for them to just turn on the camera and go - which means we get more of this, more often.
Maybe a compromise is to let them do their thing, but have at least two cameras, and maybe three. It shouldn't take much longer in the edit to accommodate the extra camera angles.
@@PelicanNorth The main issue in my mind doesn't relate to adding more work/production, but rather, just let us have a clear view of what's being talked about. Closer shots, framing the camera, etc. I think that would be a great step.
The other things would be great but agreed, not trying to add more work. I appreciate the off the cuff dialogue too. Thanks for your response.
A great meeting of the minds! Thanks for the info and insight. Another great episode!
Think this is the first time Cory had spoken at length, and oh man he’s good! Luv the show Sandy
Thanks David!
Great video - very informative - Corey is a great and really knows his stuff. I’m learning heaps! Thanks
Thanks for watching!
really enjoyed this one
Loved this analysis-discussion ... amazing team!
Great job guys. Good stuff