Hi, this is probably not the right video to comment on but I am trying to find info on tuning the PID of the Boost controller. Do you perhaps have any video on it?
I could be mistaken on this but hear me out. Isn't one of the main calculations that the torque PID uses is comparing current ignition timing to your MBT table? (some call it "max torque timing") If thats the case and you swap a cam that has a higher MBT due to it being less efficient in lower areas of the RPM range your calculated torque will still "level off" at what ever your MBT table has in it. Therefore you wont see any increase in calculated engine torque with more ignition timing even tho the engine is actually making more torque. For an example i have a 5.7L SBC vortec with a ZZ4 cam running a 98 block box PCM. MBT states that maximum torque timing is about 18 degrees at 1500 RPM and about 28 degrees at 4000 RPM. This is incorrect as the truck picked up over 40 foot pounds of torque with timing set to around 25 degrees at 1500 RPM and quickly ramping up to 32 degrees at 2500 RPM. Unfortunately engine torque isn't a logable PID with the black box PCMs but ive seen this effect on the gen3 stuff aswell. Intrestingly enough this calculated engine torque and thus MBT table also effects your line pressure regulation in the automatic transmission as the tables for that are based off calculated engine torque. Food for thought, love your videos dude your style of presentation is quick and to the point without unnecessary filler. Keep up the good work 👍
That's the million dollar question, and you are most likely correct that timing is one of the factors that is used to calculate the torque. I think an easy test would be on a torque based ecu to pull a significant chunk of timing and do a comparison log paying attention to commanded torque and what is in control of torque. I've never seen timing be directly in control of torque but there is a slight chance that if you dial it back enough that it could take over. I know timing can be pulled by what is in control of torque but I doubt any timing tables themselves could control the torque. Given all that, if your torque maps are dialed in decently you should be commanding base timing in addition to any additive situations as determined by your tune, now if you would be able to see power gains strictly from advancing timing, I think you will. But I don't know if those gains will be from the timing itself or from you changing a variable of the data going in to the calculations resulting in skewed data going on. In short, sign up for my Patreon and I'll eventually but a Dyno! Ha! Thanks as always for contributing Odd, you always have great insights!
So here's some food for thought, a dyno uses roll speed and the "moment of inertia" vs time to calculate torque. Basically quickly you are able to accelerate the roller knowing what type of force it takes to do that. So let's say you had a way of figuring the MOI of your vehicle. From there is just a bit of math. I've recently built a dyno with some universal controls and with the help of an engineer friends math capabilities, we were able to find the MOI and our machine is right on par with other local dynos. I don't see any reason why you couldn't do this driving down the road based off of the MOI of the driveline, weight of the car, distance traveled, maybe throw some wind resistance in,.....etc. the math isn't as complex as it sounds. I bet with some time a math could be created to give you torque and hp.
Kyle, my formula fails because 'delivered engine torque' or 'engine torque' seem not to be available. Can't add it to the channels either. Why not and how to fix it?
Great job on the channel! I subscribed and will definitely be looking forward to more content!! My buddy and I will be enabling E85 on my 17' 1LE Camaro SS sometime next week. The car supports the sensor and the tables are already in there but are not enabled. I already installed headers, air intake, and of course Flowmasters! Now this car has already been tuned once at a reputable speed shop. No wideband yet...due to the way my bank account is setup ;-) Now to make a long story short...I should be able to enable flex fuel along with some DTC's related to the flex fuel sensor...and be safe...right? We will dial in more once wideband is installed. Sorry to change the subject discussed in this video. Thanks for the awesome channel! This was just was I was looking for to help figure out HP tuners more.
Scott, welcome to the garage! Check out my flex fuel sensor video, it goes into the things you need to setup on you tune to enable everything, it's pretty straight forward and if you can find a stock tune file for your platform that already had flex fuel that's the easiest way to see where to get the tables setup. But feel free to ask any questions, here is a link to the other video: th-cam.com/video/hVHNAtIgu-Y/w-d-xo.html And the flex fuel tuning video, if you haven't seen it already, they should get you headed in the right direction: th-cam.com/video/xUV0uf6yMnE/w-d-xo.html Car sounds like a beast!
At about time 6:21 how did you pull up the log file showing the higher HP so fast? I did not see you hit the log file icon. Thanks. I want to second the comment from Carlos and request you think about doing some MOPAR stuff. On Scotts question and your response, Dodge does not have Delivered Torque in the Parameters Selector dropdown unless you have to be connected to the car to find it... But surely there has got to be something that can be used???
I'm working on a 2016 Silverado, and I'm trying to set this up. But when I attempt choose the parameters the engine torque is in Red, and it does not log it in the scanner. I also cant find it in the channels to turn it on for monitoring.
thanks for all your videos they're great. I am working on setting this up and I have the torque and hp set up in the chart but in the channel I do not have the delivered torque, its not there to add it. Thanks in advance.
Hi, this is probably not the right video to comment on but I am trying to find info on tuning the PID of the Boost controller. Do you perhaps have any video on it?
I could be mistaken on this but hear me out. Isn't one of the main calculations that the torque PID uses is comparing current ignition timing to your MBT table? (some call it "max torque timing")
If thats the case and you swap a cam that has a higher MBT due to it being less efficient in lower areas of the RPM range your calculated torque will still "level off" at what ever your MBT table has in it. Therefore you wont see any increase in calculated engine torque with more ignition timing even tho the engine is actually making more torque.
For an example i have a 5.7L SBC vortec with a ZZ4 cam running a 98 block box PCM. MBT states that maximum torque timing is about 18 degrees at 1500 RPM and about 28 degrees at 4000 RPM. This is incorrect as the truck picked up over 40 foot pounds of torque with timing set to around 25 degrees at 1500 RPM and quickly ramping up to 32 degrees at 2500 RPM. Unfortunately engine torque isn't a logable PID with the black box PCMs but ive seen this effect on the gen3 stuff aswell.
Intrestingly enough this calculated engine torque and thus MBT table also effects your line pressure regulation in the automatic transmission as the tables for that are based off calculated engine torque.
Food for thought, love your videos dude your style of presentation is quick and to the point without unnecessary filler. Keep up the good work 👍
That's the million dollar question, and you are most likely correct that timing is one of the factors that is used to calculate the torque. I think an easy test would be on a torque based ecu to pull a significant chunk of timing and do a comparison log paying attention to commanded torque and what is in control of torque. I've never seen timing be directly in control of torque but there is a slight chance that if you dial it back enough that it could take over. I know timing can be pulled by what is in control of torque but I doubt any timing tables themselves could control the torque.
Given all that, if your torque maps are dialed in decently you should be commanding base timing in addition to any additive situations as determined by your tune, now if you would be able to see power gains strictly from advancing timing, I think you will. But I don't know if those gains will be from the timing itself or from you changing a variable of the data going in to the calculations resulting in skewed data going on.
In short, sign up for my Patreon and I'll eventually but a Dyno! Ha! Thanks as always for contributing Odd, you always have great insights!
So here's some food for thought, a dyno uses roll speed and the "moment of inertia" vs time to calculate torque. Basically quickly you are able to accelerate the roller knowing what type of force it takes to do that. So let's say you had a way of figuring the MOI of your vehicle. From there is just a bit of math. I've recently built a dyno with some universal controls and with the help of an engineer friends math capabilities, we were able to find the MOI and our machine is right on par with other local dynos. I don't see any reason why you couldn't do this driving down the road based off of the MOI of the driveline, weight of the car, distance traveled, maybe throw some wind resistance in,.....etc. the math isn't as complex as it sounds. I bet with some time a math could be created to give you torque and hp.
I agree, and it shouldn’t be that crazy to calculate a general MOI and get things dialed in.
Kyle, my formula fails because 'delivered engine torque' or 'engine torque' seem not to be available. Can't add it to the channels either. Why not and how to fix it?
Great job on the channel! I subscribed and will definitely be looking forward to more content!! My buddy and I will be enabling E85 on my 17' 1LE Camaro SS sometime next week. The car supports the sensor and the tables are already in there but are not enabled. I already installed headers, air intake, and of course Flowmasters! Now this car has already been tuned once at a reputable speed shop. No wideband yet...due to the way my bank account is setup ;-) Now to make a long story short...I should be able to enable flex fuel along with some DTC's related to the flex fuel sensor...and be safe...right? We will dial in more once wideband is installed. Sorry to change the subject discussed in this video. Thanks for the awesome channel! This was just was I was looking for to help figure out HP tuners more.
Scott, welcome to the garage! Check out my flex fuel sensor video, it goes into the things you need to setup on you tune to enable everything, it's pretty straight forward and if you can find a stock tune file for your platform that already had flex fuel that's the easiest way to see where to get the tables setup. But feel free to ask any questions, here is a link to the other video:
th-cam.com/video/hVHNAtIgu-Y/w-d-xo.html
And the flex fuel tuning video, if you haven't seen it already, they should get you headed in the right direction:
th-cam.com/video/xUV0uf6yMnE/w-d-xo.html
Car sounds like a beast!
Is there a way to do this on gen3?
At about time 6:21 how did you pull up the log file showing the higher HP so fast? I did not see you hit the log file icon. Thanks. I want to second the comment from Carlos and request you think about doing some MOPAR stuff. On Scotts question and your response, Dodge does not have Delivered Torque in the Parameters Selector dropdown unless you have to be connected to the car to find it... But surely there has got to be something that can be used???
I'm working on a 2016 Silverado, and I'm trying to set this up. But when I attempt choose the parameters the engine torque is in Red, and it does not log it in the scanner. I also cant find it in the channels to turn it on for monitoring.
Very cool man. wish you did some tips on the Mopar platform.
How would be the math using delivered engine torque instead of engine torque ?
thanks for all your videos they're great. I am working on setting this up and I have the torque and hp set up in the chart but in the channel I do not have the delivered torque, its not there to add it. Thanks in advance.
What are you working on, Scott?
a 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT 6.1L
@@sbjglass Not sure that the Dodge will have that parameter
ok, thanks
Hey if you manipulate your virtual torque, (inflate it) won’t it inflate torque and HP readings?
No, torque is calculated from airmass
So anyone check this formula to a dyno ?
Wait, is that prudence the safety goat in your intro?
lol
I don't know how everyone else got this to work but it doesn't work at all for me
either i i did something wrong or idk because its says 71,889.8 hp lol
im doining it with Deliveredengine torque and at 3941 rpm its 285 lb.ft so idk where im getting this crazy numbers
nvm i found the issue was an extra parentesys
now it says 305 which its weird because its a cammed C5 with bigger injectors lol
😂😂😂😂😂
Tuning it’s frustrating but funny lol😂