Franz Schubert - Symphony in D-major, D.708a (1820/21)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
- Franz Schubert
Work: Symphony in D-major, D.708a (1820/21) completed by Brian Newbould.
Mov.I: Allegro vivace 00:00
Mov.II: Andante con moto 10:44
Mov.III: Scherzo & Trio: Allegro vivace 18:36
Mov.IV: Presto 26:35
Orchestra: BBC Philhamonic Orchestra
Conductor: Juanjo Mena
A real rarity.
The one real problem Schubert had with this symphony and subsequent symphonies he composed, is that he was about 30+ years ahead of his time as far as chromatic harmony goes. If you took a look at the music carefully, you would see that it starts in D Major well enough, but it migrates to A-flat major in the second theme of the Sonata movement form. The problem here is that brass instruments were limited in that they did not have valves yet, and Schubert had not implemented his trio of trombones yet for brass sonorities and chromatic harmonies. He started using a trio of trombones with his 7th Symphony in E Major, D. 729. He continued to use trombones in this fashion in the 8th and 9th Symphonies as well as the E Major Symphony D. 849 from 1825 as well as the unfinished 10th Symphony D. 936a in D Major. While Brian Newbould is a great Schubert scholar, he does have a strong bias. In addition, I have to add that 6 more pages of manuscripts were found that contain the orchestrated scherzo movement of the 8th Symphony, and it clearly demonstrates that the movement ended in D. Major or the relative major for B Minor. That being said, in all likelihood Schubert finished the work, and the last movement was, like Lazarus, used as scrap paper. His E Major symphony of 1825 was rejected by a publisher for being too difficult, which it is rather difficult and would have been in 1825 for sure. Like Beethoven's Ninth of the same period, Schubert reversed the two inner movements. Many reject it as a fake or Schubert copy, but few people would have bothered to compose a symphony in the Schubert style when his own works were being rejected and not played in their entirety until the 20th century. Not to mention, it is 100% Schubert in detail and design especially in his manner of harmonic composition. When someone fakes something, they cannot help but put their own label on it, and it contains no labels other than Schubert's. The second movement of this fragment symphony is an example of that sort of Schubert writing that no one else was doing at the time or came close to it later on.
Certo la bellezza di questa operazione di cucitura e ricostruzione (e riorchestrazione) è straordinaria e va dato atto a Newbould di averci regalato una gemma preziosa:1)Allegro vivace: I tema grandioso e bellissimo, sviluppo (5.43 - 7.46) meraviglioso.2)andante con moto: melodie carezzevoli e ben elaborate con fraseggi romantici.3)scherzo: un dinamismo notevolmente avvincente.4)finale: tipica leggerezza di certi finali schubertiani giovanili e forse meglio di quelli.Grazie Newbould e grazie a chi ha pubblicato.
Wonderful to finally hear this as a complete symphony - not fragments. So the E-minor, D.729 becomes Symphony No.8? Now FOUR DIFFERENT Schubert symphonies have been No.7 - as well as the Grand Duo D.812. Che imbroglio!
A mistake was made. This is NOT the 7th. It was realized by Newbould but a number has not been assigned
Thank you Mr. Newbould for your fine reconstructions of Schubert symphonies. Even his less than first-rate compositions offer treats to the ears and are worth preserving.
‘Echt’ Schubert it obviously isn’t, but Brian Newbould has surely done the best that he can with the material available. If we reject this, then we should reject also all performing versions of Mahler’s tenth symphony, the completed version of the finale of Bruckner’s ninth symphony, and so on. Purists are free to spurn Newbould’s version; the rest of us are free to enjoy it!
Ted Wilks
It's close to Schubert, isn't it?
He did a very good work I think
You can find the first page of the manuscript (for piano! but intended for orchestra) on Wikipedia. Interesting that Schubert had this really wonderful tonal development in mind. Lovely music.
Wikipedia on Symphony,_D_708A_(Schubert)#Composition ::
This sketch is the second of a series of four unfinished symphonies - D 615, D 708A, D 729 (the seventh), and D 759 (the eighth) - that are milestones in Schubert's symphonic development between the sixth and ninth symphonies. These four symphonies are in varying states of completion: D 615 has incomplete sketches of only two movements (the allegro and the finale), D 708A has incomplete sketches of all four movements, D 729 is structurally complete but was not fully orchestrated, and D 759 has the first two movements complete and orchestrated and a third movement in an incomplete piano sketch.
The Mahler 10th performing version however draws on a complete sketch. In a comparable situation Schubert's sketch for a Symphony D729, is also complete in sketch.
This here however is not complete in sketch and includes many segments that Newbould had to compose himself.
Le plus romantique de tous! Bravo!!!
Symphony No. 7 is the name given to a four-movement symphony in E major (D 729) drafted by Franz Schubert in August 1821. Although the work (which comprises about 1350 bars) is structurally complete, Schubert only orchestrated the slow introduction and the first 110 bars of the first movement. The rest of the work is, however, continued on 14-stave score pages as a melodic line with occasional basses or counterpoints, giving clues as to changes in orchestral texture.Schubert seems to have laid the symphony aside in order to work on his opera Alfonso und Estrella, and never returned to it. The manuscript was given by Schubert's brother Ferdinand to Felix Mendelssohn and was subsequently acquired by Sir George Grove, who bequeathed it to the Royal College of Music in London. There are at least three completions: by John Francis Barnett (1881), Felix Weingartner (1934) and Brian Newbould (1980). The work is now generally accepted to be Schubert's Seventh Symphony, an appellation which some scholars had preferred to leave for the chimerical 'Gastein Symphony' that was long believed to have been written and lost in 1824. WIKIPEDIA
And most modern opinion is that the Gastein symphony is actually the Great C Major, No.9, which was written 3-4 years earlier than originally thought. Because many of Schubert's works were never performed in public, their exact dates were tricky to establish.
I'd never heard this symphony; thanks for the info.
@@leonardgibney2997 But please bear in mind that the information given by SuperAsalvador is not about the symphony in this video!
We accept Sussmayr's completion of the Mozart Requiem, so why not? It's interesting to have an idea of how Schubert's art was developing between the 6th and the vastly more mature 8th and 9th, and a hint of where he might have gone from there in Newbold's completion of the 10th.
Sussmayr derived Mozart's early masses (Gloria and Credo of Spatzenmesse in C K220) to finish the Requiem.
@@jackjack3320 (What a name!) Do you wonder what Sussmayr has done more then the Requiem? I do, as you say we accept it (because it is well done, following instructions from Mozart) nonetheless we would like to think that one person permeates a composition, and so it would be interesting to listen to what Sussmayr has to say in other situations.
What exactly doesn’t sound like Schubert’s music/style in this weaves sketch of Newbould’s? I find it more ways than not sounding very much like a Schubert symphony. Retaining Classical form and motifs while at times breaking from some norms established by Haydn (such as more key changes in each segment of movement 1), this definitely what I would expect of a Schubert composition.
Wow!!! Finale....fliying to the Future! Genius!
Strangely wonderful
Splendid stuff.
Ottima prestazione !
The reason this music doesn't sound like the Schubert we know and love is that it is NOT Schubert. It is a realization by Brian Newbould of some of Schubert's sketches, skillfully accomplished. It appears that our Schubert was not satisfied with what he had written and abandoned the project because it didn't cover any new ground. Still, I like hearing this if only to gain an appreciation of the seriousness with which Schubert approached the composition of a symphony. Working in the shadow of Beethoven must have been a terrifying experience for a young composer. I have always thought Beethoven would have been astonished if he could have seen the manuscripts of the B Minor and "Great" C Major symphonies.
+Thomas Andrews Schubert did abandon many pieces for unknown reasons - the C major Piano Sonata exists in 2+ movements and even at that is nearly 30 minutes of pure wonder. Why he abandoned things was more circumstantial in nature often than rejection on his part. Many times he would go about making further drafts of the same work, even writing over on the same page new material. But his transient existence was at the root of why some pieces were just 'left' incomplete....
as a composer myself I would say that if a composer is enamored of the material they are working with, then by hell or high water they will want to finish it...now that being said, I agree completely as you rightly point out circumstances of a transient existence would undoubtedly cause a composer to sideline more than a project or two
This work is pure rubbish.
There is nothing pure about rubbish. Music is a divinely inspired thing and if it helps, just forget about who wrote it and enjoy something that spoke through someone's heart whoever that may have been.
Sounds like Schubert to me and points from the 6th Symphony towards the 9th.
Ces oeuvres de Schubert passionnant.
D 708A (occasionally numbered as Symphony No. 7) is an unfinished work that survives in an incomplete eleven-page sketch written for piano solo It has been orchestrated by Brian Newbould
Convincente
In this piece, one can hear elements of Mozart and early Beethoven. Dubious as to how much of this composition is Schubert's original intent but it's certainly worth a listen.
Gracias por la curiosidad!!!
Intriguing work. Very lighthearted, almost like Bizet, I like the scherzo and finale best.n
¡ SCHUBERT FUE GENEROSO CON LA MUSICA, PERO LA VIDA NO FUE GENEROSA CON EL COMPOSITOR !!
¡ PADECIÓ MUCHAS CARENCIAS Y MALAS RETRIBUCIONES !!
¡ DEJO SU ARTE ENTRE NOSOTROS, QUE NO PODEMOS RECOMPENSARLO COMO LO MERECERÍA !!
Schubert left a piano score only with very few indications of orchestration. The Scherzo is nearly complete, but Schubert only composed the expositions for the other three movements. The development sections recapitulations and codas are all by Newbould.
This is not the symphony known (in the English speaking world) as the 7th. The 7th is D.729, and starts with a slow introduction. This is D.708a, and starts with allegro tempo.
And now the title says so too, D.708A. Wikipedia has an article on that one, too.
This isn't what I know as Schubert's Seventh Symphony. I've never heard this piece before.
I've now sampled the "real" Symphony No. 7 in E major, D729, which is also on TH-cam, and I strongly recommend it. Again Brian Newbould had a hand in recreating it, but he had a lot more to work with, as Schubert left the work structurally complete though not orchestrated. D729 struck me as more inspired than D708a, and that may be why Schubert completed it in full. See what you think!
Well deserved applaud!!!! That s a fantastic playing and a fantastic demanding symphony.
Far from being overshadowed by Beethoven's, Schubert's genius is confidently overt and very powerful. Unfortunately this was unknown to the public.
Only criticism (very minute) on the orchestration : I wouldn t have exposed the last movement's first theme at the flute (more classically I would have given it to the violins and have it replayed by the windwoods later, as it is done very beautifully. But this is nothing compared to this magnificent achievement).
That's an interesting comment, because Schubert himself wrote "Flauto" at the beginning of the finale! It's one of the few indications for orchestration in the sketch.
Franz Schubert:7.D-dúr Szimfónia D.708a
1.Allegro vivace 00:00
2.Andante con moto 10:44
3.Scherzo:Allegro vivace 18:36
4.Presto 26:35
BBC Filharmonikus Zenekara
Vezényel:Juanjo Mena
Was wondering who painted the background painting love it.
Gotta love the fountains.
I hope someone releases the score someday
This is indeed based on Schubert, but not the seventh symphony in E major, it is instead unnumbered.
I have the ten symphony plus incomplete sketches collection and the sketches were just orchestrated. That made frustrated listening since they stop midway. Completed versions are played here but it's not his symphony no.7 which is another piece orchestrated from the complete piano score Schubert left, having already orchestrated the introduction before putting it aside.
This symphony dates from the time when Schubert had yet to bring the originality of his song writing into his instrumental works. This happens quite suddenly with the Unfinished Symphony, the C minor Quartetsatz for string quartet, the Wanderer Fantasy, and the Unfinished Oratorio "Lazarus," etc. This symphony is clearly still in the earlier style of the Overtures in the Italian style, early symphonies, etc. That said, the Scherzo quite good. I feel however that much of the work is like the early Mendelssohn string symphonies; talented, but in a different universe from what was to come..
Schubert's Symphony no. 4 in C Minor (the "Tragic", in "Beethoven's tonality") should definitely not be overlooked! I personally have always preferred it to the "Unfinished." The first and last movements are real Sturm und Drang (I suspect that Verdi "stole" some of the overture to "Luisa Miller" - a "German" opera, if you will - from the fourth movement.) The scherzo is highly original in its chromaticism, but: the slow movement has one of the most exquisite, heart-rending melodies that even Schubert ever wrote!!
Mais enfin la musique est universelle
Newbould, me tiene desconcertado, según este músico-restaurador de las sinfonías 7 y 10 de Schubert, hay dos sinfonías nº 7, una en D-mayor y otra en E-menor, ambas distintas completamente y sin referencias fehacientes de estar basadas en bocetos dejados por Schubert.
i love all these expert genius masters comments telling "this is not the Schubert I know"... well, i disagree. The very first phrase sticks in the head. It could have been something. We won't ever know the reasons why he abandonned this, maybe the mood... don't pretend.
Questa sinfonia è rimasta solo nella stesura per pianoforte .Vari interpreti hanno poi cercato di orchestrarla da Weingartner fino a Newbould,.Non figura pertanto nel catalogo ufficiale delle sinfonie di Schubert che dalla sesta(La Piccola) passa direttamente alla ottava..Nona sinfonia è considerata invece (La Grande).Quanto alla decima è rimasta anch'essa allo stato di musica pianistica..Nel 1989 L.Berio ha ricomposto la sinfonia peraltro anche frammentaria nella concezione
filoxe974
Cette symphonie serait-elle donc le chaînon manquant dans le cycle Schubert? Il serait intéressant de connaître l'origine de cette (re)trouvaille!
Je ne vois aucun commentaire francais. On aime pas trop la grande musique donc en France.
Schubert said that the musical evolution had its end by Beethoven death,but he kept on composing eversince.
D major?? I thought it was E major/minor?
Oh wait, numbering issues yet again.
Wow! A marvellous piece. First time I've heard it and it is better than the D729 which sounds just like he is imitating Rossini.
Love the part at 8:17.
Difficile de se prononcer : on ne retrouve pas le sens génial de la modulation telle que Schubert savait en enrichir sa musique (voyez les fantastiques modulations du mouvement lent de la neuvième). Les thèmes et leurs développements me semblent éloignés de l'esprit du compositeur. Mais comme dit tedwilks, si nous faisons la fine bouche des tentatives de reconstitution des œuvres inachevées, alors mieux vaut tout rejeter en bloc.
It's a nice piece of music and skilfully put together, but it sounds like an unfamiliar symphony from c1845 rather than Schubert.
+Peter Johnson Schubert was ahead of his time.
+Bharlie Ladd I heartily agree, but this particular piece just doesn't sound like Schubert. It's full of phrases and mannerisms very foreign to Schubert's style. It's a very hard thing for a 're-constructionist' like Brian Newbould to keep his own creative impulses out of the music. The same problem occurs with Anthony Payne's realisation of Elgar 3.
It might sound better in a different performance. I'd like to hear a historical instrument group play it, and shake some of the cobwebs off it.
@@peterjohnson3842Could you give a timestamp for something you find particularly un-Schubertian?
This simphonie is "dress rehearsal" for "Great"9-th !
Schubert com simfònic no té preu. Tot lo que feia és bona música. Schumann I Brahms eren bons, però aquesta simfonia posa en escac les de Brahms i Schumann. Son bones, sí, però hem de reconèixer que Schubert aquí va fer una obra mestra.
これを7番とすべきか、E-durを7番とすべきか迷ってしまう。しかしニューボルト版はギュルケ版より完成しているので使い易い。
It's an interesting piece with much good music, but to me lacks anything strikingly memorable, unlike all of Schubert's first 6 symphonies. I'd agree with the view that he was trying to extend his style and was experimenting; he wanted to write a "grand symphony". In 2 more years he had written the Unfinished Symphony and in a further 2 years had produced the "Great C major", both monumental achievements. So having brilliantly fulfilled what he aimed to do, I can see why he wouldn't bother going back to D615, D708a or D729, but instead moved on in different directions - more great songs, the piano trios and sonatas, the late string quartets and quintet.
Rome. Bientôt détruit?
Where's Schubert? This symphony sounds more French than German. Well, perhaps in the last movement.
Early Schubert was mainly Italian, inflluenced by his teacher Salieri.
Это баааааааза . Галия пала .
Me parece que esta sinfonía no contiene la profundidad ni la ternura indescriptible de la Sinfonía Inconclusa, ni la de la Trucha, ni de Rosamunda, ni del winterreise ni de los demás lieders de Schubert....
7:13
Онъ же РЕДХУДЪ и что Мы видимъ ?.. ... Позоръ , профанации !.. ...
Since one of Schubert's hallmarks is his orchestration the realisations inevitably fall short. Credit to Brian Newbould for undertaking a number of these but the result sounds like... Brian Newbould (with a dash of Beethoven). Rather than imagining what Schubert might have done with the orchestra I'd prefer to hear a piano arrangement for two or four hands that's closer to the material. If the second movement would have turned out anything like this it's no wonder Schubert abandoned the project. Tedious and wholly uncharacteristic. There's more than enough real Schubert to be getting on with.
I'd like to hear this played on historical instruments. That slow movement would sound a lot different with transparent textures and faster tempo.
And similar to what Newbould did in the realization of the 10th. Listen to Bartholomee's version if you want to listen to REAL Schubert!
The right smoke in the lung, then you realize the bad smoke out . Hard to sell truthfull with the strange 🤔
Brian Earner - Some people are weird, others work hard to be weird. You're one of the latter.
This doesn't sound like any Schubert I know.
Of course. What did you expect - the Sixth or the Eighth?
THE MUSIC 3/5 GOD JESUS 3/5; THE MUSIC 8/17 TISHBITE 8/17; music 6 Christ 6 Elijah 6; Music 5/8 Jesus 5 Tishbite 8; The Music 14 Elijah Tishbite 14; The music 12 Elijah 12; THE music 15 ELIJAH 15; MUS.IC. MUS-Muse, IC-Christ. Christ is the muse. These are the numbers of letters and sides of the divine names and the definition, through which the music is created.
Schuber was crazy in the head writing this. What the heck happened? Too much hanging out in the opium den?
Ah, it isn't Schubert. Figures.
הסימפוניה השביעית זה ללידת בנים וחתונת המלך ולידת בני המלך והתאחדות עם משפחתו בירושלים. 4 בהתחלה ממש. 4 פעמים כל פעם ב4:35.
BY ANY MEANS THIS COULD BE SCHUBERT, NEITHER T PHRASES, NOR THE ABCENCE OF T WONDERFUL CONNECTIVITY BETWEEN THEM, T FLOW OF MUSIC, NOR T SENSELESS ITERATIONS, BELONG TO SCHUBERT... AWFUL