@onewingedakira I'm sorry but you're wrong about a lot of stuff. shot is barely seeing use above a certain level of play, with nsplash taking its spot in most comps. stamp is bad, but the most impact a wavebreaker gives you past low level is an inktank refill
This certain level of play you mention is the HIGHEST level of play. A level of play made up by around a couple hundred players. I can confirm from my own experience that shot defo still sees a lot of play in the mid-to-high levels of competitive play as we struggle a lot more to deal with it. Double shot is not as uncommon as you might think at these levels As I understand it, the neo splash entered the meta since these "most comps" have pencil and two low paint mid lines that need a dedicated painter. shot can do that but neo splash is waaaay better if all you care about is the paint. there are other, meta relevant, comps where running neo splash would likely be a throw imo. Backless comps with heavy edit as well as QR focused agro comps that involve stuff like wiper and tetra. I completely agree that wavebreaker is a pretty bad special. the contest for which special is the worst between Hammer, Reefslider and wavebreaker is quite heated. to save me typing out my opinion on it, you can just watch my video about it right here: th-cam.com/video/KCXAfCFZ9F8/w-d-xo.html
I feel like it’s because • Clash sucks • Carbon struggles to fit in comps • Machine has rougher paint • Gloogas aren’t a great main weapon and require some skill to use • Tent requires some time to get good at • Squeezer has both a high skill floor and ceiling
Unless you're a sploosh, in which you are the worst weapon the game. Literally at the rock bottom of the meta. But it really does go to show that it really is the kit that makes or breaks a weapon, for most short weapons, that would be the former, but for sploosh its the latter.
Not really honestly, we're in a midline meta right now, only 1 Vshot is being ran because running more than 1 shooter sucks right, all the mid line options are stronger in this meta and Vshot is only there to enhance them with support (and zooka). but shooters are not the meta right now is my point, midlines are right now
What's funny is hammer was good in splatoon 2, but something in translation made it worse. I donno why because it worked perfectly in splatoon 2, but when they added it to 3 they just really screwed the code.
Reeflux will outfarm and outfight most shooters [if you can hit your shots...], and beats every shooter in at least one of the two categories... unfortunately it only has one good kit (reefslider has anti-synergy) and missiles are mid rn, which is imo the biggest reason that shooters will always be meta - there are a LOT of them, compare three bows to three PAGES of shooters, almost double that of the runner up biggest class (buckets), so one will always have the best special*. Thankfully they don't necessarily invalidate anything, they'll just always be up there in high tier. Also tact actively helps a number of non-shooters (thank goodness) *except for zip, which is unavailable to 4 classes
I genuinely think shooters need a fundamental weakness to the class to balance them out. In my opinion, I think shooters’ high mobility is a defining trait of the class, so there’s no reason to nerf that. I do think that there should be a tradeoff between kill time and paint output. While this is seen already in some weapons like the aerospray, in others, it is not as apparent, like in the case of the .52 gal. Shooters need an exploitable weakness so they can be effectively counterpicked, just like any other class in the game.
I personally don't see this as a bad thing but but I'm biased as an inkbrush one-trick so I like fighting shooters. If we want counterpicks, brella is actually pretty good... when its shield works. You could also counterpick maps like flounder or something but that's only in tournaments and only if they allow it.
Great discussion on the topic. For me, the Splattershot was a good fundamental weapon to get started with, and I think of it as a comfort pick weapon that shines in its simplicity (and ability to farm specials), so I default to it sometimes. I'm sure others feel the same about it. It's just the "ol' reliable" kind of weapon. P.S. Your brush gameplay is cracked.
This video made me think about if the game had shooters removed. honestly I think this would add WAY more veriety and make games more interesting, as well as making more weapons viable.
It's why I like the idea of just banning shot and nothing else as a way of handling zooka. You're still allowed to run zooka but it forces you to choose between a bunch of different zooka weapons and decide which one best fits your team rather than defaulting to 'the best zooka weapon'
Shooters are meta butt there's also plenty of none shooter meta weapons like Pencil, Splat dulie, Slosher, Stamper, Heavy edit, Splat roller. There's a big number of none shooter weapons in the meta so i don't think we should be worrying to much about the shooter class.
I made fun of nova being bad but in all honesty, back during the inkjet meta, I vaguely remember a top team bringing Aniki Nova to tournaments and winning some sets with it. If we ever find ourselves in an inkjet or killer wail focused meta, i feel like Nova would see some play
Aerospray, sploosh, pro, jet squelcher, and the nozzlenoses are all not very good. I understand where you're coming from but there are definitely other bad shooters, in fact most good weapons are not shooters.
I feel like sorella tent is like the perfect zooka weapon. I love playing with it, I love playing against it. i just love sorella tent and everyone else does too. it's the only zooka weapon no-one complains about
I feel like there's a big difference between shooters always being meta and having a shooter meta. At least, looking back to Splatoon 2's quad shooter meta.
Great video! It’s especially interesting for me learning a couple tidbits about splatoon 2 meta as someone who: -only got splatoon 2 after all events ended -mostly bought the game for octo expansion -never surpassed level 10 in the game -has only started caring about meta and playing well in splat 3 Overall, I love your commentary on this, and I hope to see more from you! My only other point is that you could have probably expanded upon the heavy edit splatling, and why it still finds a place in the meta in the part where you briefly mentioned it, however I may be biased because I main it 😭.
tyty. As I understand it, Heavy Edit has an awkward range value where it's not exactly a backline but you also don't want to run it alongside other backlines like Charger so it finds itself fitting pretty neatly into backless comps. in these comps you of course don't want pencil since it's a backline and you don't want zap either since it spends half the game being too passive. I hear there are comps where you can go heavy edit + explo/jet squelcher but I don't want to say too much since heavy edit isn't a weapon I understand all too well.
@@onewingedakira that’s fair enough! I will admit the range is quite awkward, so I find that often I end up too close and dying cause of that, however it does have really good special gain which is why I’m assuming it’s still considered a really good weapon despite some of the other issues it encounters. I will admit I’ve switched to the shooter class recently though as I’ve wanted to get through this catalog and it’s often just easier that way
I think its important to point out that this isn't necessarily a bad thing - having something with more general strengths and less overall weaknesses allows weapons that have extreme strengths and weaknesses to be run. I would imagine that without weapons like splash, nzap, and vshot (if it was toned back a bit), there would be less variety and less teams willing to try to run more extreme weapons. Also, I don't get the claim of "shooters have no weaknesses" that I'm seeing in the comments. Firstly, I'm a mini splatling main, and its usually pretty easy for me to outrange and outdps most short range shooters. Just like any other class, shooters have good and bad matchups. Second, not having any outstanding strengths is a weakness in a 4v4 game where you can build a comp to take full advantage of a weapon's strengths and mitigate a weapon's weaknesses. Also also, shooters don't take "no skill". Some are definitely easier to pick up than other weapons, but they still have a very high skill ceiling. Clash blaster also has a low skill floor, but that weapon sucks at top level. And this only applies to some of the class, plenty of shooters (including meta ones like squeezer) are really hard to pick up. I guess what I'm trying to say is, this isn't endgame Splatoon 2. Shooters are very good, but besides extreme cases like vshot's zooka dominance, they are also very good for the game.
Ultra Stamp is not the worst special in the game. Use the ability to swim after you activate it. Makes a huge difference
I can't believe that I, with my thousands of hours in this game series, didn't think of that
Yeah so you can just jumpscare them and they can’t run away
it is not the worst. it's the second worst. wavebreaker takes the cake for worst
@onewingedakira I'm sorry but you're wrong about a lot of stuff. shot is barely seeing use above a certain level of play, with nsplash taking its spot in most comps. stamp is bad, but the most impact a wavebreaker gives you past low level is an inktank refill
This certain level of play you mention is the HIGHEST level of play. A level of play made up by around a couple hundred players. I can confirm from my own experience that shot defo still sees a lot of play in the mid-to-high levels of competitive play as we struggle a lot more to deal with it. Double shot is not as uncommon as you might think at these levels
As I understand it, the neo splash entered the meta since these "most comps" have pencil and two low paint mid lines that need a dedicated painter. shot can do that but neo splash is waaaay better if all you care about is the paint. there are other, meta relevant, comps where running neo splash would likely be a throw imo. Backless comps with heavy edit as well as QR focused agro comps that involve stuff like wiper and tetra.
I completely agree that wavebreaker is a pretty bad special. the contest for which special is the worst between Hammer, Reefslider and wavebreaker is quite heated. to save me typing out my opinion on it, you can just watch my video about it right here: th-cam.com/video/KCXAfCFZ9F8/w-d-xo.html
Also, every short range shooter always gets a bomb. Which makes sense ig, but it kinda sucks when bombs are the best subs in the game
I feel like it’s because
• Clash sucks
• Carbon struggles to fit in comps
• Machine has rougher paint
• Gloogas aren’t a great main weapon and require some skill to use
• Tent requires some time to get good at
• Squeezer has both a high skill floor and ceiling
Unless you're a sploosh, in which you are the worst weapon the game. Literally at the rock bottom of the meta.
But it really does go to show that it really is the kit that makes or breaks a weapon, for most short weapons, that would be the former, but for sploosh its the latter.
shooter users when a single competent dualie user challenges them:
Not really honestly, we're in a midline meta right now, only 1 Vshot is being ran because running more than 1 shooter sucks right, all the mid line options are stronger in this meta and Vshot is only there to enhance them with support (and zooka). but shooters are not the meta right now is my point, midlines are right now
Still, most comps are running one short range shooter. They do such a good job at rounding out comps that it can feel necessary to have one.
tent can cycle more zookas than shot tbh
What's funny is hammer was good in splatoon 2, but something in translation made it worse. I donno why because it worked perfectly in splatoon 2, but when they added it to 3 they just really screwed the code.
The devs knew how many weapons they were going to give hammer to and knew they had to nerf it somehow
Reeflux will outfarm and outfight most shooters [if you can hit your shots...], and beats every shooter in at least one of the two categories... unfortunately it only has one good kit (reefslider has anti-synergy) and missiles are mid rn, which is imo the biggest reason that shooters will always be meta - there are a LOT of them, compare three bows to three PAGES of shooters, almost double that of the runner up biggest class (buckets), so one will always have the best special*. Thankfully they don't necessarily invalidate anything, they'll just always be up there in high tier. Also tact actively helps a number of non-shooters (thank goodness)
*except for zip, which is unavailable to 4 classes
This and your inkbrush guide are just SO GOOD and INFORMATIVE, wish more splatubers made videos like this!
tyty. I really appreciate it
I genuinely think shooters need a fundamental weakness to the class to balance them out. In my opinion, I think shooters’ high mobility is a defining trait of the class, so there’s no reason to nerf that. I do think that there should be a tradeoff between kill time and paint output. While this is seen already in some weapons like the aerospray, in others, it is not as apparent, like in the case of the .52 gal. Shooters need an exploitable weakness so they can be effectively counterpicked, just like any other class in the game.
I personally don't see this as a bad thing but but I'm biased as an inkbrush one-trick so I like fighting shooters. If we want counterpicks, brella is actually pretty good... when its shield works. You could also counterpick maps like flounder or something but that's only in tournaments and only if they allow it.
tho i agree that some shooters (like 52) are able to do everything perhaps a bit too well and may need some toning back.
I definitely agree they need some defining weaknesses
Great discussion on the topic. For me, the Splattershot was a good fundamental weapon to get started with, and I think of it as a comfort pick weapon that shines in its simplicity (and ability to farm specials), so I default to it sometimes. I'm sure others feel the same about it. It's just the "ol' reliable" kind of weapon.
P.S. Your brush gameplay is cracked.
tyty
Good video, a good tent gets a good amount of zooka though cuz comeback is broken they get 6-8
True. tent really can spam zookas. not as much as shot but it can get really close at times
This video made me think about if the game had shooters removed. honestly I think this would add WAY more veriety and make games more interesting, as well as making more weapons viable.
It's why I like the idea of just banning shot and nothing else as a way of handling zooka. You're still allowed to run zooka but it forces you to choose between a bunch of different zooka weapons and decide which one best fits your team rather than defaulting to 'the best zooka weapon'
Agreeed here man either nerfing the class or removing most of them could fix it
Shooters are meta butt there's also plenty of none shooter meta weapons like Pencil, Splat dulie, Slosher, Stamper, Heavy edit, Splat roller.
There's a big number of none shooter weapons in the meta so i don't think we should be worrying to much about the shooter class.
The only bad shooter I can think of is splattershot nova. Shooter make up like 80 percent of the meta it’s not fair 😭
I made fun of nova being bad but in all honesty, back during the inkjet meta, I vaguely remember a top team bringing Aniki Nova to tournaments and winning some sets with it. If we ever find ourselves in an inkjet or killer wail focused meta, i feel like Nova would see some play
Aerospray, sploosh, pro, jet squelcher, and the nozzlenoses are all not very good. I understand where you're coming from but there are definitely other bad shooters, in fact most good weapons are not shooters.
@@potatojuiceultraBro what are you on about squelcher and jr not being good those are both high tier weapons
@@MaylestEsteli I forgot about jr being meta now oops 💀
But both jet squelchers have been mid or bad for almost the entirety of S3
I like shooters, stay mad
Fire
As a Shooter main, YEEEEAHHHH
My favorite zooka Weapon is sorella tent
I love how you can hide behind the canopy, and fire zooka shots before your opponent sees you.
I feel like sorella tent is like the perfect zooka weapon. I love playing with it, I love playing against it. i just love sorella tent and everyone else does too. it's the only zooka weapon no-one complains about
I hate this man I wish it could End or got severe nerfs so they aren’t as broken or unbalanced
Nice Video, lol
Thankyou!
I feel like there's a big difference between shooters always being meta and having a shooter meta. At least, looking back to Splatoon 2's quad shooter meta.
Great video! It’s especially interesting for me learning a couple tidbits about splatoon 2 meta as someone who:
-only got splatoon 2 after all events ended
-mostly bought the game for octo expansion
-never surpassed level 10 in the game
-has only started caring about meta and playing well in splat 3
Overall, I love your commentary on this, and I hope to see more from you! My only other point is that you could have probably expanded upon the heavy edit splatling, and why it still finds a place in the meta in the part where you briefly mentioned it, however I may be biased because I main it 😭.
tyty. As I understand it, Heavy Edit has an awkward range value where it's not exactly a backline but you also don't want to run it alongside other backlines like Charger so it finds itself fitting pretty neatly into backless comps. in these comps you of course don't want pencil since it's a backline and you don't want zap either since it spends half the game being too passive. I hear there are comps where you can go heavy edit + explo/jet squelcher but I don't want to say too much since heavy edit isn't a weapon I understand all too well.
@@onewingedakira that’s fair enough! I will admit the range is quite awkward, so I find that often I end up too close and dying cause of that, however it does have really good special gain which is why I’m assuming it’s still considered a really good weapon despite some of the other issues it encounters. I will admit I’ve switched to the shooter class recently though as I’ve wanted to get through this catalog and it’s often just easier that way
Good video!
tyty. means a lot coming from THE Gus
Baller video. Nice brush gameplay too.
I think its important to point out that this isn't necessarily a bad thing - having something with more general strengths and less overall weaknesses allows weapons that have extreme strengths and weaknesses to be run. I would imagine that without weapons like splash, nzap, and vshot (if it was toned back a bit), there would be less variety and less teams willing to try to run more extreme weapons.
Also, I don't get the claim of "shooters have no weaknesses" that I'm seeing in the comments. Firstly, I'm a mini splatling main, and its usually pretty easy for me to outrange and outdps most short range shooters. Just like any other class, shooters have good and bad matchups. Second, not having any outstanding strengths is a weakness in a 4v4 game where you can build a comp to take full advantage of a weapon's strengths and mitigate a weapon's weaknesses.
Also also, shooters don't take "no skill". Some are definitely easier to pick up than other weapons, but they still have a very high skill ceiling. Clash blaster also has a low skill floor, but that weapon sucks at top level. And this only applies to some of the class, plenty of shooters (including meta ones like squeezer) are really hard to pick up.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, this isn't endgame Splatoon 2. Shooters are very good, but besides extreme cases like vshot's zooka dominance, they are also very good for the game.
That gameplay was awesome
My brother in christ, pencil
You can also say this because shooters are typically low skill floor not too high skill ceiling.