My 2019 Tesla model S is currently sitting at 224,028 miles. Same battery same brakes same everything. Only replaced the driver side doorhandle. And it is on its fifth set of tires. Nothing else, but car washes , and. charging…
This is exactly what I thought. Most of these ~200K plus vehicles are young vehicles driven with lot of mileage each year. These cars are basically abused driving nearly 120 mi/day, far more than most people will consider, & likely these vehicles are being used by the owners to do Uber or deliveries of some kind. A larger majority of people need a car that can last many years; mileage is only 1 metric - for those who don't have the money to buy new or trade cars every 3-5 years, it is more important that a vehicle's value last for a long time, including that the exterior & interior hold up to weather & aging, and that the battery maintains a large percentage of it's range out to the 10-15 year range.
@@RT-mv7df you got that right? I do Uber black….. This is the only car I’ve ever owned. That’s never been to the dealer for service oil change or any of that crazy stuff , bearings brakes belts air filter, oil changes, transmission services, differential services. Blows my mind that I’ve only put five sets of tires on this car. And as crazy as this sounds another Uber driver has me beat by 60,000 miles.
They need to increase their warranty to 12years / 250k miles to boost demand and tell the market they dont have to worry about the battery. Thats everyones main worry. Take it away and they will sell every model.
Most manufacturers only offer a 3-5 year warranty and almost no one goes past 60k miles. Tesla already far surpasses all major manufacturers with a 8yr 120k mile powertrain warranty on LR models and higher on S&X. I don’t think more warranty will increase sales as much as lowering prices and making the vehicle more affordable.
@@whatdoesnt lowering their prices will hurt their bottom line and resale value. Increasing warranty won't according to their own data. If EVs never break down for 250k miles then the market will notice how reliable they are and would be willing to pay a premium over ice vehicles that require maintenance and repairs. We need to show that EVs are worth more because they are a better and more dependable product. This would be one way. It's a win, win.
I'm in Canada. Gas is about $1.50/L. It is climbing every year. 200,000 miles or 300,000km*8L/100km*$1.50/L=$36,000 in fuel, and that assumes a constant price of $1.50/L. You'll still be ahead buying a Tesla even if you have to replace the battery.
My 2021 model Y has 138,600 miles. Still original brakes. No issues at all. Only maintenance has been wipers, cabin air filters, and tires. I don’t miss having to do oil changes at all. Also where I live (WA), electricity is about 6x cheaper per mile than putting gas in a Toyota Camry.
Holy smokes! That's 100k more than my 2021 M3. Kudos! Loving the maintenance-free aspect but they (NC here) get you come registration time to make up for the lost gas tax revenue. Ouch!
Actually it does need the oil checked now and then. In the electric motors there is oil as a fluid for the moving parts. When you have high mileage, it can be wise to just have a check.
@@kevxsi16v suspension arms ball joints windscreen wipers that’s about it, my mobile three is the performance type they didn’t make many of the one I have
i just bought my first EV and its a 2024 M3LR RWD and after watching this video seeing people hit 200k mile makes me feel more confident in owning my tesla. i plan to keep this car for 10 years before purchasing a new one.
Bought my 2021 model Y long range in June 2021. New had 330 miles range. Now 54,600 miles 305 miles range. Very satisfied. Only one set of tires, cabin filter, AC issue under warranty. Compare to my bought new 2016 Subaru outback. 154,000 miles. 3 batteries, 4 sets of tires plus tire alignments, 3 sets of brake pads and rotors, 25 oil and filter changes, 15+ air filters, 10-15 fuel injector cleaner, coolant replaced, spark plugs, serpentine belt, several wipers, 10-12 cabin filters, driver door check hinge pin. I am very satisfied with both cars. My comparison proves there is a lot more maintenance on a gas car. Fortunately, I do most maintenance myself and save many hundreds of dollars Either way you are spending a lot of time and money maintaining your gas car.
Toyota's know for their reliability, I have over 162k on my Xb. I have replaced the water pump, alternator and serpentine belt, starter, struts and breaks. Well over 2k in costs that does not include tune ups, oil changes and other maintenance items. I will be getting a Model Y.
2k in tires for EVs, insane cost of insurance, cost of level 2 charging install, not to mention a battery tank that gets smaller over time. Supercharger cost will typically be the same as buying 87 gas for a toyota. My point is- it's all relative.
@@herewegoagain7403 i have an old diesel golf no payments and 65mpg. I'm not worried about long distance driving in a tesla when i already get 500++ miles to a tank what i see a Tesla for is the 99% of the time i drive under 200km a day and have an overnight electric rate of 0.02 cents.
@@herewegoagain7403 200/tire + tire insurance and free rotation/alignment. $80-150 full coverage insurance so far. Electric company paid for lvl 2 install, don’t even need it since I wakeup with full charge on slow charging. $.06/mile Friend’s battery is 98% after 3 years.
My 2017 Tesla model S has 101,000 mls. Still going strong on the original battery. I mostly charge at home using tesla solar panels and power wall so the charging free. I keep charge limit at 80%.
We went through hurricane Helene the neighborhood power was down for about 42hrs and still charged my tesla. All though we had no a/c, we had everything on. We are ordering one or two more Powerwall's to fix that. The feeling of being off grid is overwhelming.
My friend has a 2011 BMW 528i with 225,000 miles on it. He’s spent a few thousand replacing things over time like start motors, valve cover seals, serpentine belt, radiator, brakes and tires, as well as routine oil changes every 2-3 months (avg 30,000 miles per year). He stopped driving the BMW in 2022 when he got his first Tesla Model 3, he loved it so much he got a Model S LR and eventually a Model S Plaid. He’s saved so much by driving a Tesla. Previously he spent $500/mo minimum on gasoline. He charges his Tesla at work for FREE🙏🏽
About to hit 100k miles on my 2022 Model 3 RWD (LFP), and it only has about 4.5% degradation after being DC charged about 75% of the time (over 21 MWh). Taking it on a 10k mile cross-country trip tomorrow; really impressed with the longevity of LFP.
The furthest I've ever gone with a gas car is 175K miles. I'm looking forward to going beyond that with my MYLR and also not having to replace the brakes.
"My" record is ~196k miles on a car that my Dad bought for me when it had ~130k miles on it. ☺ The previous owner kept meticulous maintenance records and I have no doubt that car would last until 300k miles.
@@microbiologycory10Mine JUST started quealing after 5 years on a Lexus CT Hybrid (Prius). And I was upset because I thought they would last longerrrr. I also live in DC, so you can’t coast as much and use regenerative braking - because people will honk at you like you’re stupid *sigh*
People are quick to believe media or any misinformation posted online. I just let people believe whatever they want. I have a 2018 M3LR and haven’t had any issues besides a windshield replacement from a rock that hit the corner of the windshield. Love this car so far!
You've obviously done your homework and I appreciate that. A VERY informative video for a prospective first time buyer who is still sitting on the fence.
@@SGliderGuy I think you're confusing the break in period with what happens to ICE over time... Proper break in is so the components "rub" in and as you stated, move freely. But you cannot some how heal or put back the material that wears out. Same thing with transmissions. You wouldn't beat on a vehicle with 100-200k miles, you'd (if you're sane) drive it conservatively to prolong its use. Electric vehicle powertrains do not require this - I'd say this is the best part. It WILL drive like the very first day it came off the lot, many years down the line.
Replacing the battery is usually with a refurbished battery that won’t “double the life” of the battery. The warranty is also much shorter. I’m hoping that as technology increases improved new aftermarket packs can be retrofitted at a lower cost.
2018 Model 3 Long range rear wheel drive. 100,081 miles. Incurred the cost of A/C issues right after warranty ran. $2,000. Other than that no problems and I love my car. Have your A/C checked out before your warranty expires.
It’s interesting mentioning the warranty of the batteries. Legacy model S’s had a 8 year warranty with unlimited miles on them, so it makes me wonder how well these batteries in the legacy models are built compared to their newer counterparts.
The newer ones are much better built. They reduced the warranty because they no longer needed it as a selling point, not because the batteries got worse.
There is a model S in germany with 1.300000 miles on it's 4th battery, it's the car of Hansjörg von Gemmingen-Hornberg, he reached 2 Mio killometers in April 2024.
Just got a model 3 LR AWD with blue exterior and white interior. I’ve been watching Ryan’s videos for YEARS and have been wanting a Tesla for 10+. Honestly the cars are amazing and I recommend it!
Lithium battery technology is mature and high quality lithium batteries are very reliable. Don't forget there's essentially no moving parts in a lithium battery. There's not a whole lot to go wrong and if something is going to go wrong it'll probably be fairly early in the vehicle's life. At least in the United States batteries are warrantied by federal law for 8 years minimum.
My December 22 Y LR is already at 53,000 miles and has needed no maintenance yet, though it did need the upper (I think) control arms replaced under warranty - known wear item). I’m banking on getting to well over 250,000 miles over the 7 year term of my loan.
@@armandocardona6975 I may be wrong - definitely control arms on the front suspension. Whether upper or lower or anything else, I can’t remember. It’s a known issue with them.
@@edwardhackett-jones8126 You are correct it is a common issue with MY of a certain year. What i’m saying is that the control arm as a car part shouldn’t be a wear item lol. Tires, brakes, oil are wear items lol
Degradation is faster at first and slower over time because at first there might be quite a few cells that are less than perfect. Over time there are fewer and fewer cells left in the pack hat are not perfect enough to last forever. Old study looking at different kinds of EV batteries showed that the Average battery, even Leaf batteries that lack temperature control, will never drop below 80% even after millions of miles worth of charge and discharge cycles...
Give a non-transferable warranty for the "life of the vehicle" limited to under 85% of battery life left. Most owners will sell their vehicle well before the warranty would kick in.
I would be interested to see the condition of the body for a high mileage vehicle driven in the regions that get a lot of snow or rain. Ice cars are typically rust buckets with that high of mileage.
@livelaughlakers thanks. I keep thinking, if you have the car for 6+ years and the battery needs to be changed but the body is still good, then it totally makes sense to replace it and keep on driving.
A quick research of the cost of replacing an engine on a Honda Accord. "New Engine Replacement: A brand-new engine is the most expensive option and could cost anywhere from $4,000 to $7,000 or more for the engine alone. Including labor, the total could be anywhere from $5,500 to $10,000 or more"
It's also important to note that lithium batteries are almost entirely recyclable. Most lithium batteries today aren't recycled because it's not economically viable to deal with a million different sizes of small lithium batteries. Recycling lithium vehicle batteries however is profitable and the industry for recycling those is already growing rapidly. By the time large numbers of electric vehicles are ready to be scrapped the recycling industry will almost certainly be mature enough to handle recycling them.
@@Trashed20659 Yeah that's what I was saying. Right now most lithium batteries aren't recycled because they're all very small and difficult to handle logistically but with EV batteries it's a lot of good stuff all in one place so it becomes profitable to recycle
Tesla recycles their packs, particularly the new, sealed "structural" packs by grinding/sheading and then separating the materials. They refer to it as "high quality ore".
@@idahorx1 as the industry builds pretty much all lithium electric vehicle battery packs are going to be recycled. Unlike with small lithium batteries in things like cell phones the density of the valuable material in an electric vehicle pack makes it profitable to do so they're going to do it. I would also be very surprised if, in the future, most countries don't require recycling of electric vehicle battery packs.
Rating an EV on the number of miles you can get out of it, is like rating a cell phone on the number of calls you can get out of it. The metric doesn't make sense when using an electronic device. It's mostly about the age and charge habit of the battery.
2012 to 2015 or later Model Ss suffer from poor pack design related to the pyro fuse. The AC condensate hose drained directly on top of the access door on the pack. It rusted and leaked. It was also battery powered and needs replacement every 8 years. Also, Tesla doesn’t repair packs. They replace them. So the cost is outrageous no matter how simple the repair may be. It sucks.
175k on my 3 long range and i still get 270mi real-world from 100% to 0% at 70mph. That doesn't include anything beyond 0%. I do a drive from NC to SC multiple times per month. 251 miles of range in the uphill direction, 270 miles downhill. I'll do a health test at 200k.
(7:36) squeaky upper control arm: I’ve at this at 60k miles. It’s a known issue with Tesla. They won’t recall it since it’s not a safety issue but they did waive the labor fee. Still it cost a few hundred dollars for parts. Yes these are always done in pairs.
I've seen virtually no battery degradation in my 2023 Tesla Model S after a year and 9000 miles. I've never supercharged it. Only level 2 charging to 65%.
And because of price difference between the S & X and the 3 & Y, I could see those with the s and X doing home charging as a much higher percentage. And those with the lesser priced ice vehicle 3 & Y, probably living in apartments for many, using superchargers. That will make a very big deviation in the life of those batteries.
Keep in mind that while BMW engines and transmissions typically last 200-250k miles - BMW only warrants them to 50k. Replacement of either can be the same cost as replacing a Tesla battery. However, Kia basically offered a 10 year warranty in order to ease concerns about Korean made vehicles - and it worked.
As a professional technician and a shop owner, I can tell you that we have had 3 failed KIA engines in the shop between Aug 1 - Aug 17. These are fairly typical numbers (month to month) for our shop; however, I do not know if it is a direct result of poor manufacturing OR if you simply have more KIA vehicles in our area.
@@darrylhowe1465 My understanding was Kia did that for two reasons - first to address concerns about Korean made cars to consumers and second, to force their manufacturing and support to be better. They still offer the 10 year / 100k warranty - granted the average American actually drives 14,500 miles per year - so most will hit 100k before 10 years but the same is true for 5 years / 50k miles from BMW. KIA would have discontinued the warranty if it wasn't working to some degree (probably consumer confidence) - warranties nearly always favor the company - which is why extended warranties are highly profitable.
Hyundai started that after revamping the company by hiring some of the best engineers in the world. They started with a cheap product, but are now world-class. Same thing the Japanese went through in the 1970s.
Any newer car will come with a really expensive bill if the engine goes out. People seem to ignore that fact. Even on a KIA of Hyundai, the newer tech and engines cost about the same to replace as a Tesla battery. Getting 200k miles out of any new car is uncommon, but for a Tesla, it’s barely half its age. It’s why I’m super hopeful about EVs. As battery tech gets better, reliability will go up and it’ll become cheaper to fix as more people will be specialized in fixing these cars.
He was either very lucky or I have a lemon, because I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
@@UTArch1 I would say lemon. I know of several people who have high mileage Model S cars with the original motor. I recently looked at a 2016 Model X with 140,000 miles and it had the original motors.
Either you have been very lucky or I have a lemon, because I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
8 years with a Leaf and now 1 year with a Model 3, my tires on both vehicles meet or exceed their mileage warranties every time (40k-50k miles). 2018 Model 3 sitting at 60k miles and still has 92% SOH on the battery.
i have 60K miles on my 2022 Model S. Range has dropped to 93.4%. At first 25k miles range was at 95%. Overall very pleased with the rate of battery degradation seemingly steadying down. I charge at home on 50amp charger.
Even if they don't want the corporate risk of warranting batteries for 300,000 miles, they or someone else should offer a battery "insurance" policy, to spread the risk around the combined base of owners. Perhaps a modestly priced "extended warranty" reflecting the anticipation that hardly anyone will have a claim, and even if they do, they can offer a new or reconditioned replacement, or as the manufacturer, even a great price trade-in deal on a brand new car, and recycle the battery and/or the car through their service dealerships.
No problems with the battery, but I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
I'm thinking that as battery technologies progress by the time I need a new battery for my 23' M3, there will be an improved range battery pack that cost less to swap in. Once again Tesla providing upgrades to their vehicles after their purchase. Owners will go from fear of battery failure worries to "Can't wait to get that new improved battery pack!"
My 2018 model 3 LR RWD has over 84k miles on it. A few maintenance expenses. Regular tires, squeaky control arm replacement, oil pump and cabling replacement caused by rodent damage.
Brought new and still driving my 2016.5 MS 90D, 8 years later. and 50K miles. When new, EPA rated the newly upgraded 90 KWh (90D) drive battery at 294 miles combined driving range. Fully (trip) charged now averages 272 miles and 246 miles daily driver with a 90% charge. Lots of hills where I live, and I tend to drive aggressively as conditions permit. Love this car and plan to keep it for another 8-10 years, maybe longer. It's a classic.
Either you have been very lucky or I have a lemon, because I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
The data is not that clean. Tesla has restricted full use of battery capacity. They did this for several reasons: 1) Help battery life. 2) They can "add" some capacity when the battery degrades. And S/X have more capacity in reserve hence lower degradation.
I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
@UTArch1 u either have very bad luck, or a very horrible weather condition for the drive unit. I have never heard something THAT bad ever. U can also try a "coolant delete" /bypass mod that eliminates the possibility of leaking coolant into the motor
My 2017 Tesla Model S 100D is at 233,001 miles. Battery gets 260 miles at 90% charge. I had no issues with the car until 2024 where the 72A onboard charger stopped working, during the winter I was told the large fuse went out and I lost heat. Right now I'm set to go into the SC because of a ticking sound coming from one of the motors. I have the 8y unlimited miles warranty for battery and drive unit. I'm not sure If I'm going to keep the car past 8 years.
I would recommend getting rid of it before the warranty expires because I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
This was one of my concerns but it doesn't seem to be a big deal overall. However....range anxiety remains my largest complaint and the range needs to get to 500-600 miles. Having my car have a range of 260 miles is terrible and makes me dread the car long term. But FSD is worth it.
super long range won't be so important once fast chargers are everywhere. Extra batteries increase the cost of the car substantially, so most would balk at the price. I think 300-350 miles will be the sweet spot unless incredible battery tech is found.
Great vid. My UK Tesla Model 3 AWD 2019 done 107k has a battery % of between 87% and 89% depending on the test. The 89% was the more details test from Altelium, video on that coming soon.
@@JuniuRtv It was whatever type of Continental tires came with my car, I replaced them with All Season T1 Continental (procontact?.. im looking at invoice) and that was Nov 2022 currently just over 40k on this set and they look fine.
The average temperature is a key factor in determining battery lifespan. In mild climates like the UK or Seattle, they are lasting a very long time and in hot climates like Australia and Arizona, they are failing much much sooner.
@@jeremiahsimon6594 That’s good to hear! I’ve heard the battery’s are being warrantee replaced a lot in Australia but that could be an issue of manufacturing in the China factory. I’ve logged 20k miles on my model Y in the first year and hope I can get 200k miles out of it.
I've replaced a transmission out of pocket on an Acura [Honda], so I'll take my chances with this remaining 100k miles of warranty I have in my battery. Can't imagine not wanting to upgrade my 2022 M3LR before 2026 ends... Too many great cars and features coming around the corner. I'll be giving this car to one of my kids. ❤
Here's my experience: I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
The key here is number of charge discharge cycles (1500 as stated by Tesla in your video). The Uber driver's useage is not typical, doing several super charging sessions per day. It should not be included for comparison, but merely mentioned as an atypical case. In an ICE vehicle, that would be like having to change your oil and rotate your tires every 2 to 3 weeks. In the Tesla, you could probably hit 1500 cycles in 2 years in this case while a typical driver could expect to reach 1500 cycles in 4 to 5 years
@@richardcorns8553 75K miles per year could put you there. Realize that you still have 70 to 80% of the original battery capacity at that point (maybe more). The battery is not "dead" as with lead acid boat anchors. If you only charge to 90% instead of fully charging, you could probably increase the battery useful life by 40 to 50%. Every time you run a Tesla to dead (i think 1%), you are reducing the useful life of the battery. This is why there are lots of outliers in battery lifetime data. Five years a probably a good average warranty period, which will most likely not have to be used by the average Tesla owner
My 2013 Model S85 has 140,000 miles and the main drive battery is still at about 85%. However, all is not sunshine. I have to replace the 12V battery about once every 2-3 years, and much worse, I just replaced the drive unit (ie. motor) for the SECOND time. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6700), not exactly my idea of a "maintenance free" car.
2021 MYP batteries failed at 70k miles. I mostly charged at home and max charge was 90%. I keep hearing other 2021 owners having similar battery failure issues.
See, for me, I am not too worried about battery degradation. With more Superchargers continuously being built (I do live on the east coast), it makes it very easy if I need to road trip someone. I have some friends who live in western NC (which was previously a charging desert, even for Tesla) and a Supercharger station got built in their town. Super excited to use it on my way up to see them. For me, what this video (and comment section) is showing is what I hoped: That some do have some minor powertrain issues, but overall, these vehicles will do 200k+ miles with no issues and maintenance free. I've had my 2023 M3 SR for 2 years, and now I feel super excited about driving it for many more miles. Note on tires: I had Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (Tesla spec) tires as OEM. They only lasted 28k before replacement, but I found out my alignment was all out of whack. Got an alignment and another set, and I've put 14k miles on them and still have 7/32" left on all of them. I try to drive pretty easy, but do have the occasional hard take off. So, if you get a new Tesla, I recommend an alignment check.
If you convince them to go EV and get there OWN charger, think of what THAT would mean for visits! Once we are all converted, it's gonna be a paradise.
I live across the border in Del Rio, TN-still somewhat of a charging desert around here. A big hole between Sevierville and Bristol and down towards Ashville. Tesla's SC map does show one coming in Newport. Waynesville/Maggie Valley area needs a SC as well.
This is sad to see (since this wasn't my experience) as my '21 MY with 90k battery just died. If we are to believe that batteries are lasting longer I'd like to see a 200k mile warranty instead of a 100k warranty.
Amen to that. Are a year ago I bought a 2015 model S with 112,650 miles on it. EPA range says 253mi. I charge to 80-85% & get 191 mi. I tried charging to 100% just to see the range. 223 mi. So loss of 12%. Also my battery pack loses 1-2 miles per day just sitting. All but 2 charge sessions have been at home- 220v Nema 14-50 plug. I got lucky as the house I bought had the 220v receptacle in place. My annual miles driven will hit 4,000 this month.
Well, you're still under warranty, luckily . Most of the replacements have been under warranty. Less than 1% of tesla vehicles have needed a battery replacement
If your battery died at 90k than it is still under warranty. Only 1.2 percent of ICE vehicles every reach 200,000 miles. There are exceptions of course but that is the real number. Seems strange why people demand so much more from EV's than ice vehicles, when no Ice vehicle would ever offer such a high warrantee.
I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
Ryan, the graphs show “standard deviation”. Is this one standard deviation? The general rule is that one standard deviation of a normal population represents 68%. 95% for 2 standard deviations and 99.7% for 3 standard deviations. In manufacturing it kind of important to know. I listened longer and it was defined to be 1 standard deviation. Well done. You point out that 32% might be (most likely will be if a normal population) under 80% capacity. Using 1 standard deviation is pretty misleading for the manufacturer.
So for most cars the battery will outlast the car. But some owners might be unlucky and have to replace the battery at some point, at high cost. This issue will never go away, a risk remains, and that's what potential buyers are afraid of. However, there should be an easy solution to reduce risk. It's known as insurance. Why not buy an insurance policy for your EV battery, to reduce risk of high cost? I believe, as we see more and more old and used EVs on the streets, this will be very common.
@@wj9494 Yes, that would be great. But there is no 20 year warranty from any manufacturer. So instead of just wishful thinking or hoping that this will come, I wanted to think about what one could actually do for him/herself to solve the problem.
It would be nice if Tesla offer replacement packs for sale with new tech or ability to subsidise upgrades for warranty replacements. If our 2022 RWD gets a replacement in say 2032 and density has improved it would be great to refresh it to a longer range or lighter battery (of same original capacity)
What no one talks about is how a gas car that goes past 200K miles has already had cost a new engine replacement in oil/filter changes alone. But if you really want to get cute cherrypicking, we can include brake pad/rotors, timing belts and tune ups, and time wasted (for those of us who value our time). And we're not even including actual repairs here, which will be more and more often with a car with that many moving parts wearing out.
Not to mention repairs that weren't done correctly to begin with. How many times that has happened until I found a repair shop that gave a damn. Tune-ups aren't as much a thing since computers and fuel injection took over (adding to costs), but how about all those emission control parts? If you have to go to an emissions testing facility regularly, you know that worry that pops up in the back of your mind should you fail. Catalytic converters are expensive!
Jeff Dahn did a utube where he showed studies that the batteries should last so long that theyll last longer than the car. He was discussing the challenge of creating new uses for them.
I owned a 2014 Jeep Wrangler JK and after a total of around $16k in various maintenance and repairs, the engine light came on indicating a code that required another $11k fix. It was a known manufacturers defect and jeep refused to do anything about it even though it was a class action lawsuit in the USA. Never ever buy a jeep. I ended up paying the $11k then sold the whole thing for $21k
If Tesla were to give their car batteries a 15% buffer from new then they would have a "usable" degradation of zero for the first 200k 250k miles, this might be an option as battery densities increase, using a buffer from new would also protect the batteries and increase charging times plus be a great selling point.
7:55 I would bet anything that drivers chewing through tires are enjoying the *spirited acceleration* offered by these high torque motors. I suspect driving with more restraint will result in similar performance from the tires, in spite of the weight of these cars.
Great video, thanks. I just bought my 2024 Tesla M3P. I hope by 2032 when I replace the battery, the Battery technology is better and I could have 400- 500 miles range with same weight battery lol
If solid state batteries charge a lot faster, why do they need to be long range as well? Surely the better use would be a 300 mile range than over 900 miles, making the car a lot lighter, and being a smaller battery, charging times even quicker, wear and tear on the roads and vehicle would be lower, tyre wear would reduce, as well as using fewer materials in the manufacture of the car, bringing the costs down as well. Am I missing something here?
My job requires me to drive 50k miles annually to remote sites, so the bulk of my driving is on freeways. On a 2018 model 3 LR dual motor, I’m lucky to get 200 miles at a 100% charge. A 600 mile range would make a BEV viable except I would need to charge 2+ hours.
@@Jimages_uk In the US there are not enough rural chargers, like none, so range is very important. Highest speed chargers around here are 350kW…Tesla says 400kW, but you would need to have a lot more power to make charging “fast”
@@wj9494 The answer is more chargers then, surely? More power is not going to be a problem, just this week, because we are producing more energy than we can use, my energy provider has given me a free hour between 1-2pm twice, and the more renewables we have, the more this will happen. Storing power is going to be the biggest challenge, but Tesla as well as other companies are working on that. Power storage can be cost-effective, using things as simple as sand to store heat that can be converted back into electricity
You shouldn't have an electric car, right? A range of 600 or 900 miles allows you to travel with cheap or free energy from your home... without having to stop at quick charge points and pay 0.50 dollars per kWh... around 40 dollars for a full charge... 
@@Rafa-qv8si around 90% of car journeys are less than 50 miles round trip, so 19 times out of 20, you don't need more than 300 miles, I would reckon that less than 1% of all car journeys need bigger batteries.
Unfortunate defects, the last number I saw for out of warranty battery replacement is 2% (Tesla). That’s 100,000 unfortunate drivers. If BEV manufacturers really believe that they will last 300k miles, then warranty them for 300k miles, please. It’s not much fun owning an unfortunate defect.
I’m still not convinced. My 2021 M3 SR+ with the LFP had a range of 263 miles when new. I currently have 12,100 miles and my battery is down to 234 miles, a loss of 12%. Tesla says this is normal. Seriously??
I’m in the same place. I have a 2021 M3 SR+ with 22k miles and my max range is 229 now. So disappointed. That’s a HUGE amount of degradation for such little miles.
@@_Mrbuttersworth ouch. Agree, that’s excessive. All we kept hearing was that the LFP battery wouldn’t degrade as much. Very disappointing I’m thinking of selling the car.
I have a 2021 M3 SR+ LFP as well, 21k miles, 234 mile range now out of 254 new, which is an 8% degradation. It is degrading much faster compared to the ones I see in these YT videos. It seems like a trait of LFP batteries
Also you don’t need oem tires, just get Walmart Lexani tires. Grip sucks, but it’s a hard tire so almost no wear after 15,000 miles with increased efficiency because poor traction. 😂 But hey if you just drive in mild climates and rack 20-30k miles a year, I say go for it! 😊
ICE cars will have 30,000 to 60,000 miles warranty on the engine which costs more to replace than an EV battery... Are buyers of gas cars worried that their engines will not last past 60,000 miles?
Replacing a $16k battery pack costs less than a $6k motor? The cost per electric motor in a Tesla is $7k per motor…the battery pack doesn’t have a good ICE analog.
@@wj9494 Not many new motors for $6k with labor anymore, but yes it's generally cheaper to replace an ICE engine than a battery. Worth noting, Honda has the lowest engine failure rate in the industry, which is higher than the battery failure rate of a Tesla 3/Y. Toyotas engine failure rate is double Teslas battery failure rate.
@@wj9494 As a professional automotive technician, I can tell you that your assertion that an ICE engine is only 6k, clearly does not include labor. Most engine replacements are running around $10k.
@@wj9494 Most engine replacements will cost around $10,000 with labor. I was quoted $15,200 to replace a Ford 6.7. The engine alone was $9,200 plus tax and fees, so the rest is labor and miscellaneous parts required for engine replacement.
It all depends on where you live. I live in freezing temps at winter so I would thing battery degradation would be faster.+ it would use energy at winter to keeping battery at healthy temps. In EU we don't scrap cars that fast, 400k miles ain't noting new. My 2009 Mercedes w204 2.1cdi has 350k miles + have been imported from other EU country, so most likely miles has been pulled back multiple times. OEM is injectors has worn out and EGR is failing, but other than that is still goes. Rear subframe rusted out, but Dealer repraced for free cus they has extended waranty for that part.
My 2019 Tesla model S is currently sitting at 224,028 miles. Same battery same brakes same everything. Only replaced the driver side doorhandle. And it is on its fifth set of tires. Nothing else, but car washes , and. charging…
That’s Awesome
You should replace the 12 volt battery. They have a tendency to suddenly die and leave you stranded.
wow ~45k miles per year is nuts. hope you have self driving for all that, also nice that there was no direct pollution for all that
This is exactly what I thought. Most of these ~200K plus vehicles are young vehicles driven with lot of mileage each year. These cars are basically abused driving nearly 120 mi/day, far more than most people will consider, & likely these vehicles are being used by the owners to do Uber or deliveries of some kind. A larger majority of people need a car that can last many years; mileage is only 1 metric - for those who don't have the money to buy new or trade cars every 3-5 years, it is more important that a vehicle's value last for a long time, including that the exterior & interior hold up to weather & aging, and that the battery maintains a large percentage of it's range out to the 10-15 year range.
@@RT-mv7df you got that right? I do Uber black….. This is the only car I’ve ever owned. That’s never been to the dealer for service oil change or any of that crazy stuff , bearings brakes belts air filter, oil changes, transmission services, differential services. Blows my mind that I’ve only put five sets of tires on this car. And as crazy as this sounds another Uber driver has me beat by 60,000 miles.
They need to increase their warranty to 12years / 250k miles to boost demand and tell the market they dont have to worry about the battery. Thats everyones main worry. Take it away and they will sell every model.
^ this
Yep. Even a 150,000 mile warranty would make EVs more than competitive with ICE.
Most manufacturers only offer a 3-5 year warranty and almost no one goes past 60k miles. Tesla already far surpasses all major manufacturers with a 8yr 120k mile powertrain warranty on LR models and higher on S&X. I don’t think more warranty will increase sales as much as lowering prices and making the vehicle more affordable.
@@whatdoesnt lowering their prices will hurt their bottom line and resale value. Increasing warranty won't according to their own data. If EVs never break down for 250k miles then the market will notice how reliable they are and would be willing to pay a premium over ice vehicles that require maintenance and repairs. We need to show that EVs are worth more because they are a better and more dependable product. This would be one way. It's a win, win.
I was just thinking this a week ago. Absolutely
I'm in Canada. Gas is about $1.50/L. It is climbing every year. 200,000 miles or 300,000km*8L/100km*$1.50/L=$36,000 in fuel, and that assumes a constant price of $1.50/L. You'll still be ahead buying a Tesla even if you have to replace the battery.
My car is 4L/100km and that's STILL more than buying a used lfp rwd and my car is paid off so I'll still have the 1500km range when I need it
My 2021 model Y has 138,600 miles. Still original brakes. No issues at all. Only maintenance has been wipers, cabin air filters, and tires.
I don’t miss having to do oil changes at all. Also where I live (WA), electricity is about 6x cheaper per mile than putting gas in a Toyota Camry.
I have the same car coming up on 66,000 miles
Holy smokes! That's 100k more than my 2021 M3. Kudos! Loving the maintenance-free aspect but they (NC here) get you come registration time to make up for the lost gas tax revenue. Ouch!
Nice to hear that my model 3 has 134,769
Actually it does need the oil checked now and then. In the electric motors there is oil as a fluid for the moving parts. When you have high mileage, it can be wise to just have a check.
you got panasonic battery.
but now tesla buy battery from china,.
huge difference,.
I’m in the Uk my Tesla Model 3 dual motor long range has completed 250,000 miles and still going.
Have you been super charging? What year is your M3v
@@kevxsi16v supercharging only 10%, it’s 2019 when the 3 was released in the UK
I got a M3P a few months back 2022 only 6500miles good to know they are doing the miles have you had much maintenance?
@@kevxsi16v suspension arms ball joints windscreen wipers that’s about it, my mobile three is the performance type they didn’t make many of the one I have
@@stephenbrown3249so it’s got the performance motors but the standard wheels? Sleeper M3p 😅
i just bought my first EV and its a 2024 M3LR RWD and after watching this video seeing people hit 200k mile makes me feel more confident in owning my tesla. i plan to keep this car for 10 years before purchasing a new one.
Bought my 2021 model Y long range in June 2021. New had 330 miles range. Now 54,600 miles 305 miles range. Very satisfied. Only one set of tires, cabin filter, AC issue under warranty.
Compare to my bought new 2016 Subaru outback. 154,000 miles. 3 batteries, 4 sets of tires plus tire alignments, 3 sets of brake pads and rotors, 25 oil and filter changes, 15+ air filters, 10-15 fuel injector cleaner, coolant replaced, spark plugs, serpentine belt, several wipers, 10-12 cabin filters, driver door check hinge pin. I am very satisfied with both cars. My comparison proves there is a lot more maintenance on a gas car. Fortunately, I do most maintenance myself and save many hundreds of dollars
Either way you are spending a lot of time and money maintaining your gas car.
Toyota's know for their reliability, I have over 162k on my Xb. I have replaced the water pump, alternator and serpentine belt, starter, struts and breaks. Well over 2k in costs that does not include tune ups, oil changes and other maintenance items. I will be getting a Model Y.
2k in tires for EVs, insane cost of insurance, cost of level 2 charging install, not to mention a battery tank that gets smaller over time. Supercharger cost will typically be the same as buying 87 gas for a toyota. My point is- it's all relative.
@@herewegoagain7403 i have an old diesel golf no payments and 65mpg. I'm not worried about long distance driving in a tesla when i already get 500++ miles to a tank what i see a Tesla for is the 99% of the time i drive under 200km a day and have an overnight electric rate of 0.02 cents.
*brakes
@@herewegoagain7403 200/tire + tire insurance and free rotation/alignment.
$80-150 full coverage insurance so far.
Electric company paid for lvl 2 install, don’t even need it since I wakeup with full charge on slow charging. $.06/mile
Friend’s battery is 98% after 3 years.
My best friend got the original XB is 2003 - he just sold it for $1500 with 370k
My 2017 Tesla model S has 101,000 mls. Still going strong on the original battery. I mostly charge at home using tesla solar panels and power wall so the charging free. I keep charge limit at 80%.
What is the range loss?
@@Bryponce23 very little is10% if less
Still on the original battery
We went through hurricane Helene the neighborhood power was down for about 42hrs and still charged my tesla. All though we had no a/c, we had everything on. We are ordering one or two more Powerwall's to fix that. The feeling of being off grid is overwhelming.
Let me guess, it's a 75 rwd?
My friend has a 2011 BMW 528i with 225,000 miles on it. He’s spent a few thousand replacing things over time like start motors, valve cover seals, serpentine belt, radiator, brakes and tires, as well as routine oil changes every 2-3 months (avg 30,000 miles per year). He stopped driving the BMW in 2022 when he got his first Tesla Model 3, he loved it so much he got a Model S LR and eventually a Model S Plaid. He’s saved so much by driving a Tesla. Previously he spent $500/mo minimum on gasoline. He charges his Tesla at work for FREE🙏🏽
About to hit 100k miles on my 2022 Model 3 RWD (LFP), and it only has about 4.5% degradation after being DC charged about 75% of the time (over 21 MWh). Taking it on a 10k mile cross-country trip tomorrow; really impressed with the longevity of LFP.
What are maintenance intervals ? I know Tesla are very much less but just curious like coolant and etc
The furthest I've ever gone with a gas car is 175K miles. I'm looking forward to going beyond that with my MYLR and also not having to replace the brakes.
"My" record is ~196k miles on a car that my Dad bought for me when it had ~130k miles on it. ☺ The previous owner kept meticulous maintenance records and I have no doubt that car would last until 300k miles.
@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403 regenerative brakes are great, I’ve had 7 Toyota hybrids since 2007 and never replaced a brake pad.
@@microbiologycory10Mine JUST started quealing after 5 years on a Lexus CT Hybrid (Prius). And I was upset because I thought they would last longerrrr. I also live in DC, so you can’t coast as much and use regenerative braking - because people will honk at you like you’re stupid *sigh*
People are quick to believe media or any misinformation posted online. I just let people believe whatever they want. I have a 2018 M3LR and haven’t had any issues besides a windshield replacement from a rock that hit the corner of the windshield. Love this car so far!
I had to replace front suspension unfortunately, almost $3000.
2018 M3LR
I plan to upgrade because of it.
You've obviously done your homework and I appreciate that. A VERY informative video for a prospective first time buyer who is still sitting on the fence.
People get some hung up on battery degradation. Ice engines over time lose compression, horsepower, torque and fuel efficiency goes down...
Actually, gas mileage often goes up as components move more freely with wear.
@@SGliderGuy Show me the study where that happens. I have ice engines for years and it is always worst as time goes on. Gas gets by the valves too
change your oil. lol
@@SGliderGuy I think you're confusing the break in period with what happens to ICE over time... Proper break in is so the components "rub" in and as you stated, move freely. But you cannot some how heal or put back the material that wears out. Same thing with transmissions. You wouldn't beat on a vehicle with 100-200k miles, you'd (if you're sane) drive it conservatively to prolong its use. Electric vehicle powertrains do not require this - I'd say this is the best part. It WILL drive like the very first day it came off the lot, many years down the line.
the reason people are hung up on battery degradation is because of the cost to replace a battery. imagine a 15k bill.
My first gen MS had 273,000 before I sold it.
Did it still have original battery? How much did the range reduce at that time?
Was it mostly charged with free supercharging?
@@myempire821 The battery was replaced at 70k due to a fault. The range was down to about 245 miles
@@Trust_but_Verify sure was, supercharging was free back then, and the only teslas on the road were Model X and Model S.
How much did u sell it for?
Replacing the battery is usually with a refurbished battery that won’t “double the life” of the battery. The warranty is also much shorter. I’m hoping that as technology increases improved new aftermarket packs can be retrofitted at a lower cost.
2018 Model 3 Long range rear wheel drive. 100,081 miles. Incurred the cost of A/C issues right after warranty ran. $2,000. Other than that no problems and I love my car. Have your A/C checked out before your warranty expires.
A/C would be covered under 50k miles is that right?
@@fasn279yes
What was the issue with the A/C system?
It’s interesting mentioning the warranty of the batteries. Legacy model S’s had a 8 year warranty with unlimited miles on them, so it makes me wonder how well these batteries in the legacy models are built compared to their newer counterparts.
The newer ones are much better built. They reduced the warranty because they no longer needed it as a selling point, not because the batteries got worse.
There is a model S in germany with 1.300000 miles on it's 4th battery, it's the car of Hansjörg von Gemmingen-Hornberg, he reached 2 Mio killometers in April 2024.
Just got a model 3 LR AWD with blue exterior and white interior. I’ve been watching Ryan’s videos for YEARS and have been wanting a Tesla for 10+.
Honestly the cars are amazing and I recommend it!
Battery degradation isnt the problem. Total failure is the problem.
What is the replacement rate? Thats the only important number.
Toyota says
Lithium battery technology is mature and high quality lithium batteries are very reliable. Don't forget there's essentially no moving parts in a lithium battery. There's not a whole lot to go wrong and if something is going to go wrong it'll probably be fairly early in the vehicle's life. At least in the United States batteries are warrantied by federal law for 8 years minimum.
He's talking about tesla not ford or Hyundai. There's likely close to a 0% chance of complete failure.
1000% nailed it
@@brandyn6644 I think Tesla said since their inception its about 0.29% and since the new chemistry came out its even lower
My December 22 Y LR is already at 53,000 miles and has needed no maintenance yet, though it did need the upper (I think) control arms replaced under warranty - known wear item).
I’m banking on getting to well over 250,000 miles over the 7 year term of my loan.
that’s very impressive! Upper control arms shouldn’t be a wear item :/
@@armandocardona6975 I may be wrong - definitely control arms on the front suspension. Whether upper or lower or anything else, I can’t remember. It’s a known issue with them.
@@edwardhackett-jones8126 You are correct it is a common issue with MY of a certain year. What i’m saying is that the control arm as a car part shouldn’t be a wear item lol. Tires, brakes, oil are wear items lol
@@armandocardona6975 depends on how you drive and the conditions of your roads. pot holes and bumps can kill arms.
Degradation is faster at first and slower over time because at first there might be quite a few cells that are less than perfect. Over time there are fewer and fewer cells left in the pack hat are not perfect enough to last forever. Old study looking at different kinds of EV batteries showed that the Average battery, even Leaf batteries that lack temperature control, will never drop below 80% even after millions of miles worth of charge and discharge cycles...
Give a non-transferable warranty for the "life of the vehicle" limited to under 85% of battery life left. Most owners will sell their vehicle well before the warranty would kick in.
I had no idea this was a thing
It would do nothing for the used market, and that is the real target for increased battery replacement cost.
@@wj9494 so is it something you can purchase brand new. I know Tesla will only let you extend their warranty once
I would be interested to see the condition of the body for a high mileage vehicle driven in the regions that get a lot of snow or rain. Ice cars are typically rust buckets with that high of mileage.
In New Hampshire with a 3 year old LRMY with 125k miles. No issues or rust at all. Haven’t done a thing to the car since I got it.
@livelaughlakers thanks. I keep thinking, if you have the car for 6+ years and the battery needs to be changed but the body is still good, then it totally makes sense to replace it and keep on driving.
A quick research of the cost of replacing an engine on a Honda Accord. "New Engine Replacement: A brand-new engine is the most expensive option and could cost anywhere from $4,000 to $7,000 or more for the engine alone. Including labor, the total could be anywhere from $5,500 to $10,000 or more"
You can literally get your battery done directly from tesla on a model 3 for under 13k. Other shops do it for around 7500.
Key issue is lack of spare parts availability. You must get service from Tesla approved suppliers. So much for right to repair.
It's also important to note that lithium batteries are almost entirely recyclable. Most lithium batteries today aren't recycled because it's not economically viable to deal with a million different sizes of small lithium batteries. Recycling lithium vehicle batteries however is profitable and the industry for recycling those is already growing rapidly. By the time large numbers of electric vehicles are ready to be scrapped the recycling industry will almost certainly be mature enough to handle recycling them.
actually, lithium quantities in EVs is so high, it usually is recovered because it is worth thousands.
@@Trashed20659 Yeah that's what I was saying. Right now most lithium batteries aren't recycled because they're all very small and difficult to handle logistically but with EV batteries it's a lot of good stuff all in one place so it becomes profitable to recycle
@@DoRC thought so, but for anyone mistaking the point... lol
Tesla recycles their packs, particularly the new, sealed "structural" packs by grinding/sheading and then separating the materials. They refer to it as "high quality ore".
@@idahorx1 as the industry builds pretty much all lithium electric vehicle battery packs are going to be recycled. Unlike with small lithium batteries in things like cell phones the density of the valuable material in an electric vehicle pack makes it profitable to do so they're going to do it.
I would also be very surprised if, in the future, most countries don't require recycling of electric vehicle battery packs.
Rating an EV on the number of miles you can get out of it, is like rating a cell phone on the number of calls you can get out of it. The metric doesn't make sense when using an electronic device. It's mostly about the age and charge habit of the battery.
2012 to 2015 or later Model Ss suffer from poor pack design related to the pyro fuse.
The AC condensate hose drained directly on top of the access door on the pack. It rusted and leaked.
It was also battery powered and needs replacement every 8 years.
Also, Tesla doesn’t repair packs. They replace them. So the cost is outrageous no matter how simple the repair may be.
It sucks.
175k on my 3 long range and i still get 270mi real-world from 100% to 0% at 70mph. That doesn't include anything beyond 0%. I do a drive from NC to SC multiple times per month. 251 miles of range in the uphill direction, 270 miles downhill. I'll do a health test at 200k.
(7:36) squeaky upper control arm: I’ve at this at 60k miles. It’s a known issue with Tesla. They won’t recall it since it’s not a safety issue but they did waive the labor fee. Still it cost a few hundred dollars for parts. Yes these are always done in pairs.
I've seen virtually no battery degradation in my 2023 Tesla Model S after a year and 9000 miles. I've never supercharged it. Only level 2 charging to 65%.
I would surely hope not! You only drove 9k miles!
And because of price difference between the S & X and the 3 & Y, I could see those with the s and X doing home charging as a much higher percentage. And those with the lesser priced ice vehicle 3 & Y, probably living in apartments for many, using superchargers. That will make a very big deviation in the life of those batteries.
Keep in mind that while BMW engines and transmissions typically last 200-250k miles - BMW only warrants them to 50k. Replacement of either can be the same cost as replacing a Tesla battery. However, Kia basically offered a 10 year warranty in order to ease concerns about Korean made vehicles - and it worked.
As a professional technician and a shop owner, I can tell you that we have had 3 failed KIA engines in the shop between Aug 1 - Aug 17. These are fairly typical numbers (month to month) for our shop; however, I do not know if it is a direct result of poor manufacturing OR if you simply have more KIA vehicles in our area.
@@darrylhowe1465 My understanding was Kia did that for two reasons - first to address concerns about Korean made cars to consumers and second, to force their manufacturing and support to be better. They still offer the 10 year / 100k warranty - granted the average American actually drives 14,500 miles per year - so most will hit 100k before 10 years but the same is true for 5 years / 50k miles from BMW. KIA would have discontinued the warranty if it wasn't working to some degree (probably consumer confidence) - warranties nearly always favor the company - which is why extended warranties are highly profitable.
Hyundai started that after revamping the company by hiring some of the best engineers in the world. They started with a cheap product, but are now world-class. Same thing the Japanese went through in the 1970s.
@@Trashed20659 My opinion on Hyundai has changed over the years. The Ionic 5 is a solid EV, but crazy dealership fees limited its potential.
Any newer car will come with a really expensive bill if the engine goes out. People seem to ignore that fact. Even on a KIA of Hyundai, the newer tech and engines cost about the same to replace as a Tesla battery. Getting 200k miles out of any new car is uncommon, but for a Tesla, it’s barely half its age. It’s why I’m super hopeful about EVs. As battery tech gets better, reliability will go up and it’ll become cheaper to fix as more people will be specialized in fixing these cars.
Good video,. I have a vendor, who bought a 2013 Model S with 140,000 miles last year. Last I checked, it now has 160,000 miles with zero issues.
You must mean S? First year of the 3 was 2017 with most being 2018s.
He was either very lucky or I have a lemon, because I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
@@westsailsmusic Sorry, Model S. My bad.
@@UTArch1 I would say lemon. I know of several people who have high mileage Model S cars with the original motor. I recently looked at a 2016 Model X with 140,000 miles and it had the original motors.
One guy in our club passed 760k miles in 2013 model S org battery
Wild!
This is insane
My 2017 Model S 90D currently has 134k miles. haven’t had any major issues with it yet
Either you have been very lucky or I have a lemon, because I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
8 years with a Leaf and now 1 year with a Model 3, my tires on both vehicles meet or exceed their mileage warranties every time (40k-50k miles). 2018 Model 3 sitting at 60k miles and still has 92% SOH on the battery.
Hi, My tesla Model 3 Duel motor just gone over 251,000 miles (UK) the car is September 2019, when new 309 miles at 100% now at 252 miles
i have 60K miles on my 2022 Model S. Range has dropped to 93.4%. At first 25k miles range was at 95%.
Overall very pleased with the rate of battery degradation seemingly steadying down. I charge at home on 50amp charger.
Even if they don't want the corporate risk of warranting batteries for 300,000 miles, they or someone else should offer a battery "insurance" policy, to spread the risk around the combined base of owners. Perhaps a modestly priced "extended warranty" reflecting the anticipation that hardly anyone will have a claim, and even if they do, they can offer a new or reconditioned replacement, or as the manufacturer, even a great price trade-in deal on a brand new car, and recycle the battery and/or the car through their service dealerships.
No problems with the battery, but I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
Where I live the insurance cost is twice on a a Tesla vs a gas engine car.
I'm thinking that as battery technologies progress by the time I need a new battery for my 23' M3, there will be an improved range battery pack that cost less to swap in. Once again Tesla providing upgrades to their vehicles after their purchase. Owners will go from fear of battery failure worries to "Can't wait to get that new improved battery pack!"
I'm thinking that in 20 years I'll just replace the car.
My 2018 model 3 LR RWD has over 84k miles on it. A few maintenance expenses. Regular tires, squeaky control arm replacement, oil pump and cabling replacement caused by rodent damage.
Brought new and still driving my 2016.5 MS 90D, 8 years later. and 50K miles. When new, EPA rated the newly upgraded 90 KWh (90D) drive battery at 294 miles combined driving range. Fully (trip) charged now averages 272 miles and 246 miles daily driver with a 90% charge. Lots of hills where I live, and I tend to drive aggressively as conditions permit. Love this car and plan to keep it for another 8-10 years, maybe longer. It's a classic.
Either you have been very lucky or I have a lemon, because I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
The data is not that clean. Tesla has restricted full use of battery capacity. They did this for several reasons: 1) Help battery life. 2) They can "add" some capacity when the battery degrades. And S/X have more capacity in reserve hence lower degradation.
W Tesla & EV's in general. My 2013 Model had It's battery replaced in warranty in 2020
I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
@UTArch1 u either have very bad luck, or a very horrible weather condition for the drive unit. I have never heard something THAT bad ever.
U can also try a "coolant delete" /bypass mod that eliminates the possibility of leaking coolant into the motor
My 2017 Tesla Model S 100D is at 233,001 miles. Battery gets 260 miles at 90% charge. I had no issues with the car until 2024 where the 72A onboard charger stopped working, during the winter I was told the large fuse went out and I lost heat. Right now I'm set to go into the SC because of a ticking sound coming from one of the motors. I have the 8y unlimited miles warranty for battery and drive unit. I'm not sure If I'm going to keep the car past 8 years.
I would recommend getting rid of it before the warranty expires because I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
This was one of my concerns but it doesn't seem to be a big deal overall. However....range anxiety remains my largest complaint and the range needs to get to 500-600 miles. Having my car have a range of 260 miles is terrible and makes me dread the car long term. But FSD is worth it.
super long range won't be so important once fast chargers are everywhere. Extra batteries increase the cost of the car substantially, so most would balk at the price. I think 300-350 miles will be the sweet spot unless incredible battery tech is found.
It wasn't but a couple years ago when Tesla announced that the tape they were using caused battery drain. New cars have fixed that.
Awesome job. Thank you for being very detailed about these stories
I lost 12% after 8 yrs and 50k miles on my 85D
loved watching this vid. ripe with info and data. fantastic!
Great vid. My UK Tesla Model 3 AWD 2019 done 107k has a battery % of between 87% and 89% depending on the test. The 89% was the more details test from Altelium, video on that coming soon.
My 2019 M3 LR is currently on 108k miles original battery/brakes. Tires were changed at 74k miles. Currently get 283 miles at full charge. .. Not bad
Which tires do you have that last so long?
@@JuniuRtv It was whatever type of Continental tires came with my car, I replaced them with All Season T1 Continental (procontact?.. im looking at invoice) and that was Nov 2022 currently just over 40k on this set and they look fine.
@@dtninc thank you. It’s time to replace mine. Was curious.
The average temperature is a key factor in determining battery lifespan. In mild climates like the UK or Seattle, they are lasting a very long time and in hot climates like Australia and Arizona, they are failing much much sooner.
South Louisiana here. 192k miles and counting. Lots of Tealas here and I don't know anyone personally who has had a failed battery pack.
@@jeremiahsimon6594 That’s good to hear! I’ve heard the battery’s are being warrantee replaced a lot in Australia but that could be an issue of manufacturing in the China factory. I’ve logged 20k miles on my model Y in the first year and hope I can get 200k miles out of it.
Particularly good video. Very informative. Well done!
I've replaced a transmission out of pocket on an Acura [Honda], so I'll take my chances with this remaining 100k miles of warranty I have in my battery. Can't imagine not wanting to upgrade my 2022 M3LR before 2026 ends... Too many great cars and features coming around the corner. I'll be giving this car to one of my kids. ❤
And my 2015 p85d threw a rear motor at 120k miles and cost about 8k to fix
Here's my experience: I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
My 2021 m3LR had 3 battery changes in 70k miles. Luckily all under warranty. Hopefully this last pack will last a long time.
The key here is number of charge discharge cycles (1500 as stated by Tesla in your video). The Uber driver's useage is not typical, doing several super charging sessions per day. It should not be included for comparison, but merely mentioned as an atypical case. In an ICE vehicle, that would be like having to change your oil and rotate your tires every 2 to 3 weeks. In the Tesla, you could probably hit 1500 cycles in 2 years in this case while a typical driver could expect to reach 1500 cycles in 4 to 5 years
@@johntate5284 That is what worries me, dead pack too soon. I can’t afford to buy a new car and then 5 years later buy a $20k battery on top of it.
1500 cycles on 200 miles per charge is 300,000 miles. Who does that in 4 to 5 years?
@@richardcorns8553 75K miles per year could put you there. Realize that you still have 70 to 80% of the original battery capacity at that point (maybe more). The battery is not "dead" as with lead acid boat anchors. If you only charge to 90% instead of fully charging, you could probably increase the battery useful life by 40 to 50%. Every time you run a Tesla to dead (i think 1%), you are reducing the useful life of the battery. This is why there are lots of outliers in battery lifetime data. Five years a probably a good average warranty period, which will most likely not have to be used by the average Tesla owner
@@johntate5284 75k a year is still 205 miles every day 7 days a week 365 days a year. That's a lot of miles John.
That model S looks like it needs front tires...
My 2013 Model S85 has 140,000 miles and the main drive battery is still at about 85%. However, all is not sunshine. I have to replace the 12V battery about once every 2-3 years, and much worse, I just replaced the drive unit (ie. motor) for the SECOND time. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6700), not exactly my idea of a "maintenance free" car.
That's a very well worded out video !!
Kudos ! 🎉
there is a 2019 m3lr with 420k miles on it....
@@gamerbombstudios2668 what have you replaced so far?
2021 MYP batteries failed at 70k miles. I mostly charged at home and max charge was 90%. I keep hearing other 2021 owners having similar battery failure issues.
Excellent video! 👍
Thank you very much!
See, for me, I am not too worried about battery degradation. With more Superchargers continuously being built (I do live on the east coast), it makes it very easy if I need to road trip someone. I have some friends who live in western NC (which was previously a charging desert, even for Tesla) and a Supercharger station got built in their town. Super excited to use it on my way up to see them.
For me, what this video (and comment section) is showing is what I hoped: That some do have some minor powertrain issues, but overall, these vehicles will do 200k+ miles with no issues and maintenance free. I've had my 2023 M3 SR for 2 years, and now I feel super excited about driving it for many more miles.
Note on tires: I had Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (Tesla spec) tires as OEM. They only lasted 28k before replacement, but I found out my alignment was all out of whack. Got an alignment and another set, and I've put 14k miles on them and still have 7/32" left on all of them. I try to drive pretty easy, but do have the occasional hard take off. So, if you get a new Tesla, I recommend an alignment check.
If you convince them to go EV and get there OWN charger, think of what THAT would mean for visits! Once we are all converted, it's gonna be a paradise.
I live across the border in Del Rio, TN-still somewhat of a charging desert around here. A big hole between Sevierville and Bristol and down towards Ashville. Tesla's SC map does show one coming in Newport. Waynesville/Maggie Valley area needs a SC as well.
This is sad to see (since this wasn't my experience) as my '21 MY with 90k battery just died. If we are to believe that batteries are lasting longer I'd like to see a 200k mile warranty instead of a 100k warranty.
Yes with advancement in tech it should be
Amen to that. Are a year ago I bought a 2015 model S with 112,650 miles on it. EPA range says 253mi. I charge to 80-85% & get 191 mi. I tried charging to 100% just to see the range. 223 mi. So loss of 12%. Also my battery pack loses 1-2 miles per day just sitting. All but 2 charge sessions have been at home- 220v Nema 14-50 plug. I got lucky as the house I bought had the 220v receptacle in place. My annual miles driven will hit 4,000 this month.
Sorry to hear that. Was it replaced for free since it seems to be under warranty?
Well, you're still under warranty, luckily . Most of the replacements have been under warranty. Less than 1% of tesla vehicles have needed a battery replacement
If your battery died at 90k than it is still under warranty. Only 1.2 percent of ICE vehicles every reach 200,000 miles. There are exceptions of course but that is the real number. Seems strange why people demand so much more from EV's than ice vehicles, when no Ice vehicle would ever offer such a high warrantee.
Majority of Teslas you see on the road were sold within the past 6 years. Let’s see how they hold up 10-15 years or more. Especially in cold climates
I just replaced the drive unit for the SECOND time in my 2013 Model S85. The first replacement was (thankfully) under warranty, BUT the one last month was at my expense (~$6500). Three drive units in 140,000 miles is not my idea of a "maintenance free" vehicle. I can't imagine replacing the engine of a well maintained ICE vehicle used for daily driving under normal conditions that often in that amount of mileage.
There are companies that can repair the battery instead of replacing the entire battery And then it will be cheaper according to what is said
Gruber Motors in Phoenix.
Ryan, the graphs show “standard deviation”. Is this one standard deviation? The general rule is that one standard deviation of a normal population represents 68%. 95% for 2 standard deviations and 99.7% for 3 standard deviations. In manufacturing it kind of important to know. I listened longer and it was defined to be 1 standard deviation. Well done. You point out that 32% might be (most likely will be if a normal population) under 80% capacity. Using 1 standard deviation is pretty misleading for the manufacturer.
So for most cars the battery will outlast the car. But some owners might be unlucky and have to replace the battery at some point, at high cost. This issue will never go away, a risk remains, and that's what potential buyers are afraid of.
However, there should be an easy solution to reduce risk. It's known as insurance. Why not buy an insurance policy for your EV battery, to reduce risk of high cost? I believe, as we see more and more old and used EVs on the streets, this will be very common.
@@valuemastery Warranty the battery longer, especially if they advertise that it will last 20 years.
@@wj9494 Yes, that would be great. But there is no 20 year warranty from any manufacturer. So instead of just wishful thinking or hoping that this will come, I wanted to think about what one could actually do for him/herself to solve the problem.
It would be nice if Tesla offer replacement packs for sale with new tech or ability to subsidise upgrades for warranty replacements.
If our 2022 RWD gets a replacement in say 2032 and density has improved it would be great to refresh it to a longer range or lighter battery (of same original capacity)
I want a model 3 for my next car. The new ones are so freaking cool.
What no one talks about is how a gas car that goes past 200K miles has already had cost a new engine replacement in oil/filter changes alone. But if you really want to get cute cherrypicking, we can include brake pad/rotors, timing belts and tune ups, and time wasted (for those of us who value our time). And we're not even including actual repairs here, which will be more and more often with a car with that many moving parts wearing out.
Not to mention repairs that weren't done correctly to begin with. How many times that has happened until I found a repair shop that gave a damn. Tune-ups aren't as much a thing since computers and fuel injection took over (adding to costs), but how about all those emission control parts? If you have to go to an emissions testing facility regularly, you know that worry that pops up in the back of your mind should you fail. Catalytic converters are expensive!
Goofy u get the same issues w teslas by adding a battery to the issue 😂
@@iampage2089🤔 How?
Jam packed with info!
Jeff Dahn did a utube where he showed studies that the batteries should last so long that theyll last longer than the car. He was discussing the challenge of creating new uses for them.
I owned a 2014 Jeep Wrangler JK and after a total of around $16k in various maintenance and repairs, the engine light came on indicating a code that required another $11k fix. It was a known manufacturers defect and jeep refused to do anything about it even though it was a class action lawsuit in the USA. Never ever buy a jeep. I ended up paying the $11k then sold the whole thing for $21k
I have 102,000 miles on my 2022 Model Y Performance and currently have 80% battery state of health according to the service mode check.
Omg.. do u making trackday? Charge whitch 100% everday?
If Tesla were to give their car batteries a 15% buffer from new then they would have a "usable" degradation of zero for the first 200k 250k miles, this might be an option as battery densities increase, using a buffer from new would also protect the batteries and increase charging times plus be a great selling point.
7:55 I would bet anything that drivers chewing through tires are enjoying the *spirited acceleration* offered by these high torque motors. I suspect driving with more restraint will result in similar performance from the tires, in spite of the weight of these cars.
Great video, thanks. I just bought my 2024 Tesla M3P. I hope by 2032 when I replace the battery, the Battery technology is better and I could have 400- 500 miles range with same weight battery lol
If solid state batteries charge a lot faster, why do they need to be long range as well? Surely the better use would be a 300 mile range than over 900 miles, making the car a lot lighter, and being a smaller battery, charging times even quicker, wear and tear on the roads and vehicle would be lower, tyre wear would reduce, as well as using fewer materials in the manufacture of the car, bringing the costs down as well. Am I missing something here?
My job requires me to drive 50k miles annually to remote sites, so the bulk of my driving is on freeways. On a 2018 model 3 LR dual motor, I’m lucky to get 200 miles at a 100% charge. A 600 mile range would make a BEV viable except I would need to charge 2+ hours.
@@Jimages_uk In the US there are not enough rural chargers, like none, so range is very important. Highest speed chargers around here are 350kW…Tesla says 400kW, but you would need to have a lot more power to make charging “fast”
@@wj9494 The answer is more chargers then, surely? More power is not going to be a problem, just this week, because we are producing more energy than we can use, my energy provider has given me a free hour between 1-2pm twice, and the more renewables we have, the more this will happen. Storing power is going to be the biggest challenge, but Tesla as well as other companies are working on that. Power storage can be cost-effective, using things as simple as sand to store heat that can be converted back into electricity
You shouldn't have an electric car, right? A range of 600 or 900 miles allows you to travel with cheap or free energy from your home... without having to stop at quick charge points and pay 0.50 dollars per kWh... around 40 dollars for a full charge...

@@Rafa-qv8si around 90% of car journeys are less than 50 miles round trip, so 19 times out of 20, you don't need more than 300 miles, I would reckon that less than 1% of all car journeys need bigger batteries.
I think the Tesla warranty is pretty generous already!
It would be good to get more LFP data for longevity. Good video.
Unfortunate defects, the last number I saw for out of warranty battery replacement is 2% (Tesla). That’s 100,000 unfortunate drivers. If BEV manufacturers really believe that they will last 300k miles, then warranty them for 300k miles, please. It’s not much fun owning an unfortunate defect.
The depreciation is close to 55% in one year. That’s wild.
I’m still not convinced. My 2021 M3 SR+ with the LFP had a range of 263 miles when new. I currently have 12,100 miles and my battery is down to 234 miles, a loss of 12%. Tesla says this is normal. Seriously??
I’m in the same place. I have a 2021 M3 SR+ with 22k miles and my max range is 229 now. So disappointed. That’s a HUGE amount of degradation for such little miles.
@@_Mrbuttersworth ouch. Agree, that’s excessive. All we kept hearing was that the LFP battery wouldn’t degrade as much. Very disappointing I’m thinking of selling the car.
@@Peter-rq4xn Coworker has a 2017 model 3, 19% degradation, he now has a restricted driving range - we use our cars for work.
@@wj9494 19% wow, at what percentage is driving limited? and what do tesla advise the percentage in which he would need a new battery
I have a 2021 M3 SR+ LFP as well, 21k miles, 234 mile range now out of 254 new, which is an 8% degradation. It is degrading much faster compared to the ones I see in these YT videos. It seems like a trait of LFP batteries
Also you don’t need oem tires, just get Walmart Lexani tires. Grip sucks, but it’s a hard tire so almost no wear after 15,000 miles with increased efficiency because poor traction. 😂
But hey if you just drive in mild climates and rack 20-30k miles a year, I say go for it! 😊
To be fair with the tires I see how people drive and with a Tesla and how fast they can launch it makes sense that the tires Wear down faster
I’m thinking about getting a model Y for my first car, wanna mostly avoid the hassles of gas car maintenance.
ICE cars will have 30,000 to 60,000 miles warranty on the engine which costs more to replace than an EV battery... Are buyers of gas cars worried that their engines will not last past 60,000 miles?
Replacing a $16k battery pack costs less than a $6k motor? The cost per electric motor in a Tesla is $7k per motor…the battery pack doesn’t have a good ICE analog.
@@wj9494 Not many new motors for $6k with labor anymore, but yes it's generally cheaper to replace an ICE engine than a battery. Worth noting, Honda has the lowest engine failure rate in the industry, which is higher than the battery failure rate of a Tesla 3/Y. Toyotas engine failure rate is double Teslas battery failure rate.
@@wj9494where are you getting a new engine for 6,000? Certainly not including labor to R&I
@@wj9494 As a professional automotive technician, I can tell you that your assertion that an ICE engine is only 6k, clearly does not include labor. Most engine replacements are running around $10k.
@@wj9494 Most engine replacements will cost around $10,000 with labor. I was quoted $15,200 to replace a Ford 6.7. The engine alone was $9,200 plus tax and fees, so the rest is labor and miscellaneous parts required for engine replacement.
what a great video thank you
Great information.
Is that Jeff Cohen, the actor that played Chunk in the Goonies, getting out of the blue Tesla at the 12:45 mark?
It all depends on where you live. I live in freezing temps at winter so I would thing battery degradation would be faster.+ it would use energy at winter to keeping battery at healthy temps. In EU we don't scrap cars that fast, 400k miles ain't noting new. My 2009 Mercedes w204 2.1cdi has 350k miles + have been imported from other EU country, so most likely miles has been pulled back multiple times. OEM is injectors has worn out and EGR is failing, but other than that is still goes. Rear subframe rusted out, but Dealer repraced for free cus they has extended waranty for that part.