@johnphillips7894 Crazy! Are people actually using their cars for more than grocery runs? Insane! What next? Using them to go to other cities? Unfathomable! /s
@@segstron 50k a year is crazy, i agree. Grocery runs is 5k/year, average is 12-15k. This guy is clearly an uber, uses his car for long range business or something far beyond the norm.
If the batteries are holding up well after all these years then it’s time to bump up the warranty period in years and miles to show their confidence. Bump it up to 150K miles and 15yrs and they’ll get a lot of takers.
Toyota and Honda should do the same. If your vehicles are so reliable why not have a longer warranty? My friends 2020 CRV has had major electrical issues outside the 36k warranty.
@ ditto. They were reliable in the 90’s but quality has gone down on many of their models. New Tundra engine, oil sludge issues in the past. Honda has faulty transmissions on many V6 as well as oil burning like many other manufacturers.
@ I know that but with the cost of a battery replacement currently around $15-20K many people don’t want to take the chance on a new or used one. I’m a proud Tesla owner by the way.
Even if I sent this video to all my critic friends, they still refuse to believe the facts. They’d rather continue to believe lies and misinformation. I’ve tried to reason facts with them and they don’t want to even try to change their opinion. So frustrating.
@@davidb4509 a valid criticism is still how long as in time the batteries last. We have a bunch of anecdotes about large miles in short times but the oldest batteries for mass produced teslas are about 13 years old( and that’s different battery tech to what we have now so its not apples to apples). The data isnt there yet
@@deshawnphillips6497the battery age is irrelevant the battery cycle is important and a Tesla model 3 has already reached 432k miles which is the equivalent of 32 years of average driving.
@@Globalscanningeyes The battery age is relevant. Regardless of how many years of average driving, the concern is valid and reflected in the use resale market. Look how many out of warranty teslas sit on lots, untouched. Tesla should stay by their claim then and extend their warranty
I was the operations manager for a small startup company contracting for delivery and we had six Chevy bolts. We push those cars to the max delivering all over Michigan from Detroit to Rochester and Saint Clair Shores to Ann Arbor. We would tactically switch cars to get a car back on the charger and get the driver into a fresh car so that the battery on the previous car would be up for the next driver when they would come in later. The cars were mostly 2017 model year. When I was laid off, each car had about 180,000 miles. The only thing we did was tires. We might have done the brakes once on a car because the brakes corroded from not being used. I believe we also did a wheel bearing on one of the cars. The only real wear item was the tires. The energy efficient tires are complete trash and really dangerous if it rains. My recommendation with an electric, especially in Michigan is all wheel drive.
A friend bought a Prius the first year they came out. He still drives it today with the original batteries. Five years ago he calculated he had saved enough on gas to equal the price of the car.
Then he really must drive a lot of miles/kilometers with a very cheap car. Even here in Germany, where gasoline is way way more expensive, than in the USA, I can easily calculate: 10,000 Euro / 1.7€ per liter = 176471 liter gasoline you bought 17,6471 liters / 0.08 liters per 1 km driven = gives 73,529 kilometers of range Thus you need to drive around 73k kilometers in order to use up your 10k Euro (dollar is worth 3% less than Euro - so you can deduct this from the range I calculated). According to online sources and Chat GPT, the prices for a new Prius are around 24k Euro for the last 10 years. Thus, your friend needs to have saved not 10k Euro but even 24k€. Therefore we can calculate, that he needs 2.4 times (24 Euro/10 Euro = 2.4) the amount of kilometers driven in order to reimburse him for his investment: 73,529 * 2.4 = 147,058 km. This comes close to a very very old car in German. Usually in Germany you sell/scrap your car around 150k km for Petrol and around 250k km for Diesel. It's not that we WANT to sell/scrap our cars by then - but by that time they are between 15 and 20 years old and start developing expensive issues, which need constant fixing and thus are not worth the effort/investment anymore. Wow I didn't expect this to be so much text. All I wanted to tell you, is that it is really hard to save on car cost by saving on fuel, because people usually do not drive such long distances.
@@ForcefighterX2I think your figures are wrong. I drive a Tesla Model 3 and I calculated that I save about 6000 € in fuel cost every 100.000 km compared to a gas car (0,13 €/kWh for electricity when I charge overnight vs 1,8 €/liter of gas)
@@ForcefighterX2Many Europeans don't appreciate the vast distances some people drive in the US. It's not uncommon for someone to drive 4,500 miles (7,242 kms) or more for a summer vacation, or to commute 100+ miles daily for work.
@@ForcefighterX2 Let me give a try Prius came out in 1998, Let's rewind back to 1998. Gas average over 1998 to 2018 = $2.4 per gallon A 1998 Prius costed $17K averaging 41 MPG, fuel cost per mile = $0.059 ( 2.4 ÷ 41 ) A 1998 Corolla costed $12K averaging 32 MPG, fuel cost per mile = $0.075 ( 2.4 ÷ 32 ) To pay the total of $17K with $0.016 (0.075 - 0.059) per mile of saving means the car needs to be driven for....( 17K ÷ 0.016 ), that's more than ONE MILLION MILES. That's an average of 130 miles a day of driving folks, one way to "save money" I guess. Truth of the matter is if the hybrid can't pay for itself within 5 years it's usually not a good deal, just rule of thumb.
21 3LR with 105k miles. It still displays about 305 miles on the guess-o-meter when charged to 100%. When it is time for a battery replacement, the cost to replace it will be much cheaper than buying a new vehicle. The other components have been really robust with only a 12v battery replacement and a rear trunk latch replacement. Of course I have had to replace tires, but that is normal maintenance items.
2016 Model S 90d here. So far replacements have been infotainment display when digitizer was separating from LCD, battery fuse replacement, 12v battery replacement and rear view mirror degrading/fuzzy/spotty replacement. Battery full charge shows 330 miles. Mostly city driving in TX heat. While it only has 50k miles, it's also 8 years old, and I am impressed overall. Home 220v 30a regular charging is set to 80%, I do 100% for long trips and try not to get below 15% before charging. It has unlimited charging grandfathered in, I think I will just replace the battery when the time comes, that would still be cheaper than new car ,whether gas or electric. I would love to see some battery reconditioning services opening up where only worst offending cells get replaced.
11.00 To be fair, cars used as taxis will all do far more than the average in Europe, the company I worked with would do around 275K miles in their cars over a 3 year period and then change them, not because they were broken and no longer working, but because it was felt that they had already paid for themselves by then, and we liked to run a newer fleet, these cars were pool cars, so more than one driver, which meant they were not as well looked after as a single driver car. Mostly we ran Škoda's. EVs were still a bit of a problem for us as a company, only because of range, they often do airport runs which leave little time for charging. However, EVs are used for our local cars already, and save them a lot of money and down time in maintenance and fuel costs. We were the first company in our area to have EVs as a part of our fleet.
I used to drive a lot , my model 3 has 275,000.00 miles and I am very happy with it. It's drive like new and I had to change tires and basically that's it I did and few other minor issues
Wow, that's a lot of miles! What year and trim? I have a 2023 Model Y LR AWD (March build-Fremont)with 27,000 miles. My car computer(HW3) was replaced at 11,000 miles within the first year due to it freezing up multiple times.
Just started watching this video but just wanted to say that my current Tesla model three 2018 has 310,585 miles on it. Still original battery no issues some range loss but nothing drastic.
My neighbor just replaced the battery on his 2012 model S. He was upset because his range decreased to a little over 160 MI. I thought he only paid $8,000 for the new battery. Apparently he's still gets free supercharging!
My 2020 Model Y performance is almost at 100,000 miles and at around 14% degradation. When charging from 0-100% it takes about 65 KW of power. I've never been able to get close to the Tesla EPA range numbers, so I always use the consumption app which seems to be pretty accurate. At a constant 75 mph I'll be lucky to get around 200 mi of actual range and at 80-85 mph I'll get around 170 mi of range so its not the best but it is what it is.
Replacing a battery for $20K at 200K miles is 10¢/mile. My Total Cost of Ownership of my BEV is approximately 35¢ to 40¢ per mile vs my diesel at almost $1 per mile. The BEV has a much better TCO with a battery replacement at 200K miles.
My mom's 2017 Range Rover Sport engine cost $36,303.94 (labor was $7,328) to replace at Jaguar Land Rover Paramus. She did every single one of her maintenance at the same dealership when she got her car new too. I have the repair estimate if you guys want to see it. Never going with these shitty cars again no matter how nice they look
My 2018 100D X. has done nearly 100.000 miles. Since I bought it in 2022 I have driven nearly 30.000 miles. Repairs have been 1 x pass. door actuator. Both front air shock absorbers, 1 x Air compressor and air valve junction box. 1 x Cabin filter. In Norway the Shocks etc cost 4.500 USD. I live in Norway and we do have fairly extreme winter conditions. My average consumption is around 195 Wh/km. Battery degradation was 5% last time I checked. The big problem in Europe is the EU does not allow purchasers of used vehicles to see maintenance / repair cost from previous owners, which I think is rediculous.
Theres a guy in germany with a model S with 2 Million km on the odometer. His current battery has at least 800 000 km (it's refurbished, so prob. more. He has lifetime free supercharging, he charges at least 80% on superchargers.
I brought a 2018 Chevy volt , just to get a taste of an electric vehicle. Put almost 100 k on it with very little battery degradation over almost 7 years, just traded it in on a new Chevy equinox Ev.
Your charging hygiene and climate has a big impact on battery longevity. Like how driving your ICE car in the winter without warming it up first is just asking for an early engine failure. Keeping your battery between 20-80% and living in a temperate climate could lead to a 500k mile battery.
Here’s my experience: the battery on my ‘22 Model Y P died with 1,700 miles and 2 month old car. Tesla refused to replace it with a new battery and went used. My father’s MYLR has had its battery replaced twice under warranty. Road tripping in my friend’s 5 yr old Model S w/11k miles, the master charger had to be replaced for $2k (out of warranty).
All of these incidents caused the car to die and had to be towed away and in service for days. I’m still a big Tesla supporter and just bought a new Model S Plaid. But let’s not sugar coat things to be better than they are.
Hopefully 2nd gen NMC batteries will not only improve power density, but the ability to charge to 90+% regularly without the increased level of degradation.
Single-crystal NMC 811 batteries can already do that. Jeff Dahn has an NMC battery with 10.000 cycles and only 10% degradation (and it can be charged up to 100%)
I hear about the savings on gas and maintenance, which are very valid, but my son just got a Model 3 and his insurance is significantly higher than his prior Audi. So, there are savings and there are additional expenses (tires?).
@@larryc1616 - Better than other insurance companies and he said it will go down once his driving score registers, but it is still significantly higher than his prior car.
Frequency of maintenance and repairs are much less with an EV. However some components are very expensive, its a little like Russian Roulette when you do get a failure.. The true cost savings with EV's comes from charging at home.
Only 1.2 percent of cars make it to 200,000. The actual average mileage when scrapped is 156,470 miles. The average car is not scrapped at 200,000, very few make it this far.
I don’t know about the Tesla cars but the lithium battery I have in my golf cart I use running around town is great and as a long time bongo player so is the LP Generation 11 bongos Ryan you have on the back shelf-from Costa Rica 🌴😎🌴
I haven't had a problem with the main drive battery [note: I have replaced the 12 V battery on average every 2.5 yrs.] in my 2013 Model S85, BUT it is on its 3rd drive unit in 139,000 miles. While that would not be bad IF all the replacements were under warranty, BUT the last one was NOT under warranty and cost me ~$6700! I do not think that 3 drive units in less than 140,000 is a "maintenance free" vehicle.
Huh? I just checked, and Rock Auto literally has Moog control arms with ball joints for $70 each. There is no way that repair to replace both should cost more than $600 with an alignment. And even that's pushing it. I know i could get it done for $500 somewhere.
2013 Model S 335000 kms and 2014 Model S 220000 kms in Canada and a 2014 European Model S 332000 kms and finally a Norwegian 2014 Model S 165000 Kms, all on original batteries with highest degradation @17% and lowest 8%. free supercharger for life on all 4. No major issues with highest invoice 2200$ for air suspension. Highly praised and recommended.
From what I understand, on a Tesla, an 85% charge capacity doesn't translate to the same number of miles able to be driven when the car is at 20K total miles vs 300K total miles driven.
The front tires on that blue Model S are cooked! The 85kw pack in pre-refresh Model S seem to have higher failure rates than most other early packs. $21K out of pocket over here, but likely caused by a coolant valve leak I wasn’t able to immediately address due to service center scheduling (and the car didn’t say “do not drive” even though it should have). Replacement cost was worth it to me because I do cross-country road trips multiple times a year and have lifetime FUSC and premium connectivity. Looking forward to getting a Plaid someday soon, but will keep this one forever. 163K and adding 30-40K a year
Something to consider is a few years ago there was a software lock placed on the capacity of batteries which allow you only to use a certain portion of the battery, unless you purchased the full capacity. This means that the wear and tear stats will be skewed because the owner is only able to charge the battery to a certain point. This 300,000 mile vehicle example being given could be such a vehicle which had its battery capacity software locked.
My friend's 2018 long range model 3 with 50k mile has 82% range left. He only charges it at home. It seems like the age of the battery is also a factor of range degradation.
I was an EV hater for years after EVs became political and I'm kicking myself for not giving them a chance earlier. Simply doing basic research to see many of the myths about EVs are BS would have got me to switch earlier. I've owned my 2024 Tesla Model 3 RWD for 2 months now (thanks to 0% financing and the $7500 tax credit where it made more financial sense and was cheaper than a new Honda Accord hybrid in my area) and couldn't be happier. Range anxiety and my battery needing to be replaced early were my biggest concern, but I don't think about that anymore. I drive 144-147 miles 5 days a week to get to work and have plenty of battery remaining by the end of the day. When I get home I can plug in my vehicle and wake up to a full battery every day. Electricity is super cheap with my electric company (7 cents per kwh with CPS Energy) so that makes charging so that's even cheaper than the cheap gas we have in Texas. Even better I can charge for free at work if I want to because we have free Chargepoint chargers that are free in my parking garage (my firm reimburses me for my parking pass). Yes EVs aren't feasible for everyone if you don't have a place to reliably charge daily, drive 300+ miles a day, need to tow for hundreds of miles often, or go on roadtrips the majority of the time, but it's amazing when it fits your life. Yes people will continue to say that you'll need to replace your batteries often, tell you that your car will catch on fire, or call your car a toy, but I don't really care. It works for me 🤷♂
At the high rate of miles driven your warranty will be up in 3 years. At year three you may want to look ata battery warranty from Xcelerate Auto, they sell Tesla specific warranties.
Great video as usual! I havent got any big problems with my TM3 long range from 2019(when it came out here in Sweden). Driven it 231 981km and I am happy with the car. What I've seen is that it's started to rust at the lower edges, but after six years it's still completely okay, I think. The things I wanted to change is the battery and the computer( to a modern battery and HW4), the rest still works and I want both radar and cameras. Because I want high security and redundancy if something fails and radar is better in fog/snow/rain then only cameras(Ive heard and I think). For my part, I have saved a lot, compared to an "ice car" ! And that's thanks to being able to charge at free places such as Lidl, work or at accommodation. And there is no service that needs to be done.
It is true that first generation, early Tesla Model S had a battery which really was a lottery after 40-50,000 miles...but for the past ~5-7 years, battery technology has been such that battery longevity is pretty much double that even with multiple charge/discharge cycles and exposure to extreme high/low temperatures...and an optimally utilised battery can now easily pass 200K miles with minimal problems.
Have you ever studied moisture corrosion failure of model S batteries? Cells are fine. It’s the monitoring electronics that gets killed. Gen1 battery by condensation moisture. Gen2 battery by over zealous poor robotic soldering design of monitoring voltage sensor connections. Both of these are taking out cars anywhere between 5-10 years. High mileage use under battery warranty is most beneficial to this type of usually business customers. But it’s not the norm.
When a battery degrades and you charge to 80%, are you charging to 80% of available (undegraded) battery capacity? Or does the battery charge to 80% of total battery capacity (including the degraded portion of the battery)?
Easy to understand, just check used Tesla marketplace and Tesla repair service center, and for sure 3rd party repair shop doing tesla. You will see how many of them line up for “ service” before 300k miles.
I remember when SSDs were new and folks were lazer focused on the read/write lifespan and how HDDs were superior because there was no limit on read/write. more than a decade later and I have yet to exhaust the read/write cycles on any flash memory device I have...
What percentage of these BEV cars are making it to trouble free to high mileage and age? It's easy to find the odd example on either side of the argument but average total cost of ownership is what's important.
@@BrianNC81 True, it's the tensioners that begin to go bad which is still a costly repair due to the labor.... I speak from being an Audi A6 3.0T owner in the past.
@@williamgrunzweig571 at 165k on my BMW diesel. Hoping to get 250k out of it. The car is not worth much at 16 years old, probably not worth fixing a timing chain issue if it happened.
Transmission replacements at 120k, engine replacements at 150k. Both of those combined are more than a battery replacement that doesn’t happen until 300+k.
Nice videos Ryan. I'd like to add that most of the data published here are about the battery degradation based on mileages, which is essentially closely correlated with cycle counts. Cycle count based degradation data is widely available in various research and suggests that the battery can easily last the lifetime*(how far one would possibly drive) of the vehicle. However, there is another factor that I couldn't find a lot of data, which is calendar aging. Maybe the battery can only last X miles, or Y months, whichever comes first. And the current warranty period is only 8 years for Teslas, which, I believe, is still short compared to ICE cars which can last 10-20 years with proper care. It's not that I'm anti EV and I do own a Tesla indeed, but I'll be keen to see if there are more researches done on calendar aging to give ICE fans a more wholistic picture of EV lifespan
144'000 km in my TM3 AWD with boost from 2020. Did one check at 60'000 (costs: 800CHF) and one at 100'000 (1200CHF), when I had the frunkopen-motor replaced. Otherwise no problems. Since I will need to do the 5 years check soon, I will have a big check soon.
What I’m curious to see is the impact of raw time. Very encouraging to see the folks that drive insane mileage having good battery performance, but I don’t drive my LFP M3 that far. About 1 year in and I’m at about 13k miles. I’m curious when I get to 10 years what it will look like compared to the folks who get to 130k miles in 3 weeks “normal” driving 😂.
It's not clear what warranty you get on a battery pack when you pay out of warranty with Tesla. It's not clear you'll get a brand new battery when paying out of pocket. Questions I'd want a written answer to prior to plopping down $20k plus. When I replaced our LEAF's battery we were issued new warranty paperwork which reset the battery warranty like it was a new car again. The battery was a new pack.
My sister in laws car is on her second battery on their 2018 model Y long range. Covered under warranty. But I don’t want to pay the new car prices for a Tesla and have the huge depreciation
That's why my first electric car will have at least a 300 mile range. Not because I ever drive 300 miles in a day, but because many batteries should only be charged to 80% and after 10 years it will only have about 85% of it's original range. To have a 200 mile range on an 80% charge after 15% battery degradation, the original max range needs to be 294 miles.
I understand your reasoning and I'll pick my first EV with the same logic but the numbers are a bit off. You can only use 60% of the max capacity daily - the range between 20% and 80% SOC. So 300 miles nominal range will give you only 153 miles after 85% degradation. (300 x 0,6 x 0,85)
Do any cars get the max range in real world? no. You need to take a 15% off from the official data to start off. Then account for degradation and the daily 20-80% charge…so if car has advertised 300 miles range, the real range is 255 miles, if there is degradation of 15% then range drops to 210 miles . And if you only use on average 60% of this, then real available range between charges is 135 miles….adjust that if you live in very cold climates or very hot ones.
It’s wild he changed his tires only twice for 300k miles. Tesla recommended me to change mine after 20k, but i changed it after 40k and believe it’s above average. Let’s see how it goes, my average is 20k/year.
My biggest concern is that a single 3€ cell faillure will cost me upwards of €15K to replace te complete pack. No right or companies to repair/replace just the cell or module.
Their are repair shops that can replace cells without replacing the whole pack. Experts expect the average price per Kw in 2030 to be at $69. If this holds true an 80Kw pack would cost around $5,500 Even if it were $8k and you can go another 200K + it's a win.
Our 2023 M3 RWD just passed 167,216 miles only ever supercharged and charges to 254 miles from it's original 272. My 2024 M3 RWD now has 43,900 miles supercharged only and reaches 265 miles in Santa Clara Ca cold winter and never got close to 272. Both 3's perform exactly the same since we got them (albeit my '24 adaptive suspension and dampening beats all other Tesla models), even though the '23 was hit by a Porsche McCann. Needless to say this formerly decades long Toyota family is very pleased. Our next purchase will likely be a beat up old Toyota pick up in the event of climate related catastrophe and charging becomes an issue. Unless my kid gives back my Prius then we'll be okay. On edit: If you read this far, we mostly charge to 100% everyday, and anywhere between 60-80% during the day before charging to 100% charging when the rates are lower.
great. so when My Model Y needs to change its battery if I ever needed..then it would be much cheaper than $2000. I know even several years ago in CA some local repair shops offer refurbish / or refresh Tesla battery pack for $4000. It was several years ago when new battery pack was about $12000. so, obviously Their battery repair price would be much much cheaper than those future new battery cost in... like 2040. either way I don't have to worry about changing battery..
So in this video we use Tesla degradation stats as the rule for the whole EV market? Why don’t we check degradation of Nissan Leafs which have been around for some time as well.
So basically, if you lease an EV you should expect a serious loss on any buy back price due to the fact that the vehicles new price will decrease with the price of battery materials.
The cost of $20,000 for replacing the battery in the Tesla Model S seems excessively high. I managed to replace my 85kWh battery with another 85kWh unit for just under $11,500, which included labor costs. This was done after my 2013 Model S had accumulated 163,000 miles.
The bulk of Tesla's on the road are probably well short of 8 years or higher miles, it will be interesting to see what happens when higher numbers are hovering around the age/mileage limit. Tesla could be in trouble if a high number fail
Its 8 years of 120,000 miles, whichever comes first. Many vehicles will be out of warranty well before 8 years. The number of vehicles approaching 8 years old with less than 120,000 miles is relatively small.
Watching this whilst my company 2020 LR Model 3 with 90k miles is back in the garage for a new £400 contactor to allow super charging, after spending 8k GBP so far 2024 and this year on new wishbones, knuckles, heatpump and manifold (2 months to repair), etc etc. Ive never known a car need so many repairs. My M3P with 13k miles is on its 3rd new battery and has had numerous repairs. Fortunately Tesla has a service centre in Milton Keynes which is where i live but ultimately as soon as your out of warranty you get billed heavily. Would i recommend a used Tesla to anyone out of warranty? Not really, only if you have more money than sense and love driving loner cars every few weeks whilst your car is back in for repair. Lease and return it every 2/3 years before it starts to fall apart.
Tesla Model 3 and Model Y shine with durability and innovation. The Toyota bZ4X also delivers outstanding efficiency and reliability in the electric SUV market.
I wonder if battery manufacturers want to hold off delivering solid state battery technologies until Aircraft are using it and then only sell it to aircraft manufacturers as they would undercut themselves.
Watch engineering explained’s video on battery degradation. They studied this for all battery types and break down the best practices for each battery type. Basically they were able to kill a battery in as little as 40k miles and make one last over a million, I want to say it was like 3 million, just based on different charging habits. If you don’t want to watch it, basically all battery damage is done in the 85-100% range, and letting it discharge below 15-20-% was also causing some other damage; their sweet spot was to charge from 20-80% as often as you need to
Many of those who buy Tesla’s say outright, they will sell their vehicle before the warranty runs out, so they don’t take care of the battery. Many people buy a Tesla for the acceleration. If the battery is below 70% charge, it’s not nearly so fast, so they charge to 100% as often as possible so their car stays fast - this is especially true for the performance variants. My sister doesn’t know ANYTHING about batteries and always charges to 95-100%, even on road trips. She treats the battery as a gas tank. She will sell before the warranty expires. She has 16% degradation on her 3 year old car, she doesn’t care. She is not an enthusiast, she likes the way it drives. Any owners like her will likely not have such good batteries, or care about it because they will dump their cars. Buying a used BEV is still risky. Remove the risk by increasing the warranty. I shouldn’t have to suffer $10K+ expense because I bought my sister’s used car. Note IDK why but several people I know who had battery replacements were told to replace one or both motors, I haven’t heard anyone mention this before and have no idea if this is an issue or not.
I think the concern is the risk.. cost of maint over time.. is easily handled. a sudden $15K battery replacement is NOT easily handled. even if that risk is very low. If you are concerned about this your best bet is a Toyota Hybrid.... gives you many of the benefits of EV.. low cost of operations, brakes last 120K or so.. just oil changes mostly. Mine went 425K.. I know several people that drive them.. all are over 400K.. a couple of them are over 500K. But I do love my EV also... but it is not the massive savings I like. I drive about 60K per year . EV saves me about $2500 per year over the Prius... not really a big deal overall.
Still, can someone explain why the labor cost to replace Model 3 battery is $ 2300 ? That seems scammy to me. As if "we are working on an expensive part" so we can charge high labor fee without the customer noticing it. Can someone in the know elaborate on this? Thanks.
Why to people always respond to the question "how long will it last" with an answer measured in miles which is not a measure of time? How many years will the battery last to 80% degradation if managed optimally ?
My model 2023 model y battery degradation was about 10% in one year and when I took it to tesla service they said it was normal they did not even bother to do battery test they just checked for the history.
It is model Y performance 2023 so I believe the battery is the older one not the new 4060 that tesla makes. My original range was 303 now it is 265 My usable battery battery is about 67kw
@@markt2407 thats seems like a massive loss for only one year. Maybe a dumb question since you have the Performance version but did you floor it a lot ? I've read that it also has a significant impact on degradation of its very frequent. My 3 year old model 3 has only lost around 5%
I floor it once a while, but I travel a lot and use the supercharger most of the time, and I drove about 35k miles in one year, but still, 10% is a lot.
I really wouldn't want to have a standard range with lower range because of battery degradation, which on top you are not supposed to fast charge to more than 90%, and in winter you're going to lose further range. Also 70% is a pretty lousy warranty that tesla is giving here. As I keep saying, there's no good deals with tesla
I don't think even Tesla realizes the extent of what they've done. These used EVs driving like new hitting the used market are becoming Tesla's biggest competitor. And just wait till 3rd party batteries and refurbish centers become a thing. I hope this doesn't make Tesla embrace planned obsolescence on future models.
Listening to this while driving in full self-driving in my 2020 Model 3 long range with 209,000 miles.
Bang on!
@@timangie4538 50k miles per year? Thing is worth about $5k now lol
@johnphillips7894 Crazy! Are people actually using their cars for more than grocery runs? Insane! What next? Using them to go to other cities? Unfathomable! /s
@@segstron 50k a year is crazy, i agree. Grocery runs is 5k/year, average is 12-15k. This guy is clearly an uber, uses his car for long range business or something far beyond the norm.
@@johnphillips7894 don't matter been paid off for 2 years. LOL
If the batteries are holding up well after all these years then it’s time to bump up the warranty period in years and miles to show their confidence. Bump it up to 150K miles and 15yrs and they’ll get a lot of takers.
Toyota and Honda should do the same. If your vehicles are so reliable why not have a longer warranty? My friends 2020 CRV has had major electrical issues outside the 36k warranty.
How many miles is an ICE engine warranted for?
Why? Standard warranty shows the manufacturer is confident the product is not defective, it's not a lifetime insurance policy against breakage.
@ ditto. They were reliable in the 90’s but quality has gone down on many of their models. New Tundra engine, oil sludge issues in the past. Honda has faulty transmissions on many V6 as well as oil burning like many other manufacturers.
@ I know that but with the cost of a battery replacement currently around $15-20K many people don’t want to take the chance on a new or used one. I’m a proud Tesla owner by the way.
Even if I sent this video to all my critic friends, they still refuse to believe the facts. They’d rather continue to believe lies and misinformation. I’ve tried to reason facts with them and they don’t want to even try to change their opinion. So frustrating.
@@davidb4509 a valid criticism is still how long as in time the batteries last. We have a bunch of anecdotes about large miles in short times but the oldest batteries for mass produced teslas are about 13 years old( and that’s different battery tech to what we have now so its not apples to apples). The data isnt there yet
From what is found from reddit forums and other comments on video is the best to convince someone to buy an ev is let them drive it.
@@deshawnphillips6497the battery age is irrelevant the battery cycle is important and a Tesla model 3 has already reached 432k miles which is the equivalent of 32 years of average driving.
@@Globalscanningeyes if time was irrelevant the warranty would just reflect miles not years. Both data points are relevant
@@Globalscanningeyes The battery age is relevant. Regardless of how many years of average driving, the concern is valid and reflected in the use resale market. Look how many out of warranty teslas sit on lots, untouched. Tesla should stay by their claim then and extend their warranty
I was the operations manager for a small startup company contracting for delivery and we had six Chevy bolts. We push those cars to the max delivering all over Michigan from Detroit to Rochester and Saint Clair Shores to Ann Arbor. We would tactically switch cars to get a car back on the charger and get the driver into a fresh car so that the battery on the previous car would be up for the next driver when they would come in later. The cars were mostly 2017 model year. When I was laid off, each car had about 180,000 miles. The only thing we did was tires. We might have done the brakes once on a car because the brakes corroded from not being used. I believe we also did a wheel bearing on one of the cars. The only real wear item was the tires. The energy efficient tires are complete trash and really dangerous if it rains. My recommendation with an electric, especially in Michigan is all wheel drive.
Hmm what about the battery replacement that was needed due to fire risk?
A friend bought a Prius the first year they came out. He still drives it today with the original batteries. Five years ago he calculated he had saved enough on gas to equal the price of the car.
Then he really must drive a lot of miles/kilometers with a very cheap car.
Even here in Germany, where gasoline is way way more expensive, than in the USA, I can easily calculate:
10,000 Euro / 1.7€ per liter = 176471 liter gasoline you bought
17,6471 liters / 0.08 liters per 1 km driven = gives 73,529 kilometers of range
Thus you need to drive around 73k kilometers in order to use up your 10k Euro (dollar is worth 3% less than Euro - so you can deduct this from the range I calculated). According to online sources and Chat GPT, the prices for a new Prius are around 24k Euro for the last 10 years. Thus, your friend needs to have saved not 10k Euro but even 24k€.
Therefore we can calculate, that he needs 2.4 times (24 Euro/10 Euro = 2.4) the amount of kilometers driven in order to reimburse him for his investment:
73,529 * 2.4 = 147,058 km.
This comes close to a very very old car in German. Usually in Germany you sell/scrap your car around 150k km for Petrol and around 250k km for Diesel. It's not that we WANT to sell/scrap our cars by then - but by that time they are between 15 and 20 years old and start developing expensive issues, which need constant fixing and thus are not worth the effort/investment anymore.
Wow I didn't expect this to be so much text. All I wanted to tell you, is that it is really hard to save on car cost by saving on fuel, because people usually do not drive such long distances.
@@ForcefighterX2I think your figures are wrong.
I drive a Tesla Model 3 and I calculated that I save about 6000 € in fuel cost every 100.000 km compared to a gas car (0,13 €/kWh for electricity when I charge overnight vs 1,8 €/liter of gas)
@@ForcefighterX2can you calculate backwards?
176471 L * 1.7€ = 300.000,7€ ?
10.000€ / 1.7€ = 5882 L
@@ForcefighterX2Many Europeans don't appreciate the vast distances some people drive in the US. It's not uncommon for someone to drive 4,500 miles (7,242 kms) or more for a summer vacation, or to commute 100+ miles daily for work.
@@ForcefighterX2
Let me give a try
Prius came out in 1998, Let's rewind back to 1998.
Gas average over 1998 to 2018 = $2.4 per gallon
A 1998 Prius costed $17K averaging 41 MPG, fuel cost per mile = $0.059 ( 2.4 ÷ 41 )
A 1998 Corolla costed $12K averaging 32 MPG, fuel cost per mile = $0.075 ( 2.4 ÷ 32 )
To pay the total of $17K with $0.016 (0.075 - 0.059) per mile of saving means the car needs to be driven for....( 17K ÷ 0.016 ), that's more than ONE MILLION MILES.
That's an average of 130 miles a day of driving folks, one way to "save money" I guess.
Truth of the matter is if the hybrid can't pay for itself within 5 years it's usually not a good deal, just rule of thumb.
21 3LR with 105k miles. It still displays about 305 miles on the guess-o-meter when charged to 100%. When it is time for a battery replacement, the cost to replace it will be much cheaper than buying a new vehicle. The other components have been really robust with only a 12v battery replacement and a rear trunk latch replacement. Of course I have had to replace tires, but that is normal maintenance items.
67,000 miles on my 2020 MYP with no problems, just tires
87 on my m3 2021 same
Notice 10% drop in range in my 2023 model y long range. It is at 50k right now
2016 Model S 90d here. So far replacements have been infotainment display when digitizer was separating from LCD, battery fuse replacement, 12v battery replacement and rear view mirror degrading/fuzzy/spotty replacement. Battery full charge shows 330 miles. Mostly city driving in TX heat. While it only has 50k miles, it's also 8 years old, and I am impressed overall. Home 220v 30a regular charging is set to 80%, I do 100% for long trips and try not to get below 15% before charging. It has unlimited charging grandfathered in, I think I will just replace the battery when the time comes, that would still be cheaper than new car ,whether gas or electric. I would love to see some battery reconditioning services opening up where only worst offending cells get replaced.
11.00 To be fair, cars used as taxis will all do far more than the average in Europe, the company I worked with would do around 275K miles in their cars over a 3 year period and then change them, not because they were broken and no longer working, but because it was felt that they had already paid for themselves by then, and we liked to run a newer fleet, these cars were pool cars, so more than one driver, which meant they were not as well looked after as a single driver car. Mostly we ran Škoda's. EVs were still a bit of a problem for us as a company, only because of range, they often do airport runs which leave little time for charging. However, EVs are used for our local cars already, and save them a lot of money and down time in maintenance and fuel costs.
We were the first company in our area to have EVs as a part of our fleet.
I used to drive a lot , my model 3 has 275,000.00 miles and I am very happy with it. It's drive like new and I had to change tires and basically that's it I did and few other minor issues
Wow, that's a lot of miles! What year and trim? I have a 2023 Model Y LR AWD (March build-Fremont)with 27,000 miles. My car computer(HW3) was replaced at 11,000 miles within the first year due to it freezing up multiple times.
Just started watching this video but just wanted to say that my current Tesla model three 2018 has 310,585 miles on it. Still original battery no issues some range loss but nothing drastic.
My neighbor just replaced the battery on his 2012 model S. He was upset because his range decreased to a little over 160 MI. I thought he only paid $8,000 for the new battery. Apparently he's still gets free supercharging!
a bargain by the sound of it!
My 2020 Model Y performance is almost at 100,000 miles and at around 14% degradation. When charging from 0-100% it takes about 65 KW of power. I've never been able to get close to the Tesla EPA range numbers, so I always use the consumption app which seems to be pretty accurate. At a constant 75 mph I'll be lucky to get around 200 mi of actual range and at 80-85 mph I'll get around 170 mi of range so its not the best but it is what it is.
Replacing a battery for $20K at 200K miles is 10¢/mile. My Total Cost of Ownership of my BEV is approximately 35¢ to 40¢ per mile vs my diesel at almost $1 per mile. The BEV has a much better TCO with a battery replacement at 200K miles.
If more people adapt to EV's, it will be so difficult to find superchargers when I need it. Just let the ICE people stays with their ICE.
An Audi S6 new engine is £30k so a new battery is cheaper yet that’s the issue.
That’s a performance luxury car it’s not a regular car like a model 3
My mom's 2017 Range Rover Sport engine cost $36,303.94 (labor was $7,328) to replace at Jaguar Land Rover Paramus. She did every single one of her maintenance at the same dealership when she got her car new too. I have the repair estimate if you guys want to see it. Never going with these shitty cars again no matter how nice they look
Great point. I had an engine failure on a 2016 Ford Fusion 4-cylinder 1.5L Ecoboost. Ford wanted 10k for new engine. I scrapped the car.
I have a 2022 LM3 with 216,363 miles, and everything is original.
woah. And I thought I drove my car a lot. If you don't mind me asking what do you do for a living that requires you to drive that much 🤯
0:22 those tires are smoother than elon musk's brain
My 2018 100D X. has done nearly 100.000 miles. Since I bought it in 2022 I have driven nearly 30.000 miles. Repairs have been 1 x pass. door actuator. Both front air shock absorbers, 1 x Air compressor and air valve junction box. 1 x Cabin filter. In Norway the Shocks etc cost 4.500 USD. I live in Norway and we do have fairly extreme winter conditions. My average consumption is around 195 Wh/km. Battery degradation was 5% last time I checked. The big problem in Europe is the EU does not allow purchasers of used vehicles to see maintenance / repair cost from previous owners, which I think is rediculous.
I think you made a mistake. 220kW/km? That will give you about 300meters on a full charge.
Norway isnt in the EU...?
Theres a guy in germany with a model S with 2 Million km on the odometer. His current battery has at least 800 000 km (it's refurbished, so prob. more.
He has lifetime free supercharging, he charges at least 80% on superchargers.
I think your units of wattage per mile are incorrect
tesla lets no one know the previous owners history , yer compressor failed because you hit a curb or ? blew the strut which are only changed in pairs
I brought a 2018 Chevy volt , just to get a taste of an electric vehicle. Put almost 100 k on it with very little battery degradation over almost 7 years, just traded it in on a new Chevy equinox Ev.
Your charging hygiene and climate has a big impact on battery longevity. Like how driving your ICE car in the winter without warming it up first is just asking for an early engine failure. Keeping your battery between 20-80% and living in a temperate climate could lead to a 500k mile battery.
Here’s my experience: the battery on my ‘22 Model Y P died with 1,700 miles and 2 month old car. Tesla refused to replace it with a new battery and went used. My father’s MYLR has had its battery replaced twice under warranty. Road tripping in my friend’s 5 yr old Model S w/11k miles, the master charger had to be replaced for $2k (out of warranty).
All of these incidents caused the car to die and had to be towed away and in service for days. I’m still a big Tesla supporter and just bought a new Model S Plaid. But let’s not sugar coat things to be better than they are.
Also to be fair, I had a ‘22 M3 LR with 21k miles that had basically zero problems. (Traded for the MS Plaid)
You bought a gas car? Aren't the engine and transmission expensive to replace? Don't you have to replace them often, or just simply the car itself?
Hopefully 2nd gen NMC batteries will not only improve power density, but the ability to charge to 90+% regularly without the increased level of degradation.
Single-crystal NMC 811 batteries can already do that.
Jeff Dahn has an NMC battery with 10.000 cycles and only 10% degradation (and it can be charged up to 100%)
I hear about the savings on gas and maintenance, which are very valid, but my son just got a Model 3 and his insurance is significantly higher than his prior Audi. So, there are savings and there are additional expenses (tires?).
What about Tesla insurance?
@@larryc1616 - Better than other insurance companies and he said it will go down once his driving score registers, but it is still significantly higher than his prior car.
Is the Tesla faster?
Frequency of maintenance and repairs are much less with an EV. However some components are very expensive, its a little like Russian Roulette when you do get a failure.. The true cost savings with EV's comes from charging at home.
Only 1.2 percent of cars make it to 200,000. The actual average mileage when scrapped is 156,470 miles. The average car is not scrapped at 200,000, very few make it this far.
Another problem with ICE vehicles is parts becoming obsolete after 10 years or so making repairs to the running gear difficult and/or expensive.
Where. In the US we always have parts where I live.
I don’t know about the Tesla cars but the lithium battery I have in my golf cart I use running around town is great and as a long time bongo player so is the LP Generation 11 bongos Ryan you have on the back shelf-from Costa Rica 🌴😎🌴
I haven't had a problem with the main drive battery [note: I have replaced the 12 V battery on average every 2.5 yrs.] in my 2013 Model S85, BUT it is on its 3rd drive unit in 139,000 miles. While that would not be bad IF all the replacements were under warranty, BUT the last one was NOT under warranty and cost me ~$6700! I do not think that 3 drive units in less than 140,000 is a "maintenance free" vehicle.
I stopped believing that my 2018 Model 3 is low maintenance when I had to replace the lower control arms (~$2000) at 55K.
That's literally the only expensive design flaw in the Model 3 though, and they fixed that on the newer ones.
Huh? I just checked, and Rock Auto literally has Moog control arms with ball joints for $70 each. There is no way that repair to replace both should cost more than $600 with an alignment. And even that's pushing it. I know i could get it done for $500 somewhere.
2013 Model S 335000 kms and 2014 Model S 220000 kms in Canada and a 2014 European Model S 332000 kms and finally a Norwegian 2014 Model S 165000 Kms, all on original batteries with highest degradation @17% and lowest 8%. free supercharger for life on all 4. No major issues with highest invoice 2200$ for air suspension. Highly praised and recommended.
From what I understand, on a Tesla, an 85% charge capacity doesn't translate to the same number of miles able to be driven when the car is at 20K total miles vs 300K total miles driven.
The front tires on that blue Model S are cooked!
The 85kw pack in pre-refresh Model S seem to have higher failure rates than most other early packs. $21K out of pocket over here, but likely caused by a coolant valve leak I wasn’t able to immediately address due to service center scheduling (and the car didn’t say “do not drive” even though it should have).
Replacement cost was worth it to me because I do cross-country road trips multiple times a year and have lifetime FUSC and premium connectivity.
Looking forward to getting a Plaid someday soon, but will keep this one forever. 163K and adding 30-40K a year
Juniper has dropped in the New Zealand Tesla order site. Doesnt look that near to my Highland.
My 2018 3 had a defective pack. Swapped out in 3 hours at 62,000 miles. Totally covered under warranty.
Something to consider is a few years ago there was a software lock placed on the capacity of batteries which allow you only to use a certain portion of the battery, unless you purchased the full capacity. This means that the wear and tear stats will be skewed because the owner is only able to charge the battery to a certain point. This 300,000 mile vehicle example being given could be such a vehicle which had its battery capacity software locked.
This is what tesla did with the Model S 40. They put a 60 kWh pack in the car and software locked it to 40 kWh.
My friend's 2018 long range model 3 with 50k mile has 82% range left. He only charges it at home. It seems like the age of the battery is also a factor of range degradation.
Or just a bad battery.
I have a 2018 model 3 long range with 93.5% range left after 99k miles.
@@billweir1745 he went to a Tesla service center and they said it is normal.
Calendar aging and heat are two of the main factors impacting battery degradation.
I was an EV hater for years after EVs became political and I'm kicking myself for not giving them a chance earlier. Simply doing basic research to see many of the myths about EVs are BS would have got me to switch earlier. I've owned my 2024 Tesla Model 3 RWD for 2 months now (thanks to 0% financing and the $7500 tax credit where it made more financial sense and was cheaper than a new Honda Accord hybrid in my area) and couldn't be happier. Range anxiety and my battery needing to be replaced early were my biggest concern, but I don't think about that anymore. I drive 144-147 miles 5 days a week to get to work and have plenty of battery remaining by the end of the day. When I get home I can plug in my vehicle and wake up to a full battery every day. Electricity is super cheap with my electric company (7 cents per kwh with CPS Energy) so that makes charging so that's even cheaper than the cheap gas we have in Texas. Even better I can charge for free at work if I want to because we have free Chargepoint chargers that are free in my parking garage (my firm reimburses me for my parking pass).
Yes EVs aren't feasible for everyone if you don't have a place to reliably charge daily, drive 300+ miles a day, need to tow for hundreds of miles often, or go on roadtrips the majority of the time, but it's amazing when it fits your life. Yes people will continue to say that you'll need to replace your batteries often, tell you that your car will catch on fire, or call your car a toy, but I don't really care. It works for me 🤷♂
At the high rate of miles driven your warranty will be up in 3 years. At year three you may want to look ata battery warranty from Xcelerate Auto, they sell Tesla specific warranties.
Great video as usual!
I havent got any big problems with my TM3 long range from 2019(when it came out here in Sweden). Driven it 231 981km and I am happy with the car.
What I've seen is that it's started to rust at the lower edges, but after six years it's still completely okay, I think.
The things I wanted to change is the battery and the computer( to a modern battery and HW4), the rest still works and I want both radar and cameras. Because I want high security and redundancy if something fails and radar is better in fog/snow/rain then only cameras(Ive heard and I think).
For my part, I have saved a lot, compared to an "ice car" !
And that's thanks to being able to charge at free places such as Lidl, work or at accommodation.
And there is no service that needs to be done.
Battery technology is ever improving so that even if you need to replace the battery in a few years, it would be relatively inexpensive…
$20k isn't relatively inexpensive.
What's the deal with those Model S coolant leaks and needing a motor replaced for around $7000.
Excellent Video
It is true that first generation, early Tesla Model S had a battery which really was a lottery after 40-50,000 miles...but for the past ~5-7 years, battery technology has been such that battery longevity is pretty much double that even with multiple charge/discharge cycles and exposure to extreme high/low temperatures...and an optimally utilised battery can now easily pass 200K miles with minimal problems.
Have you ever studied moisture corrosion failure of model S batteries? Cells are fine. It’s the monitoring electronics that gets killed. Gen1 battery by condensation moisture. Gen2 battery by over zealous poor robotic soldering design of monitoring voltage sensor connections. Both of these are taking out cars anywhere between 5-10 years. High mileage use under battery warranty is most beneficial to this type of usually business customers. But it’s not the norm.
When a battery degrades and you charge to 80%, are you charging to 80% of available (undegraded) battery capacity? Or does the battery charge to 80% of total battery capacity (including the degraded portion of the battery)?
80% of whatever is left at 100%
Easy to understand, just check used Tesla marketplace and Tesla repair service center, and for sure 3rd party repair shop doing tesla. You will see how many of them line up for “ service” before 300k miles.
I remember when SSDs were new and folks were lazer focused on the read/write lifespan and how HDDs were superior because there was no limit on read/write. more than a decade later and I have yet to exhaust the read/write cycles on any flash memory device I have...
What percentage of these BEV cars are making it to trouble free to high mileage and age?
It's easy to find the odd example on either side of the argument but average total cost of ownership is what's important.
When I tell my Uber passengers that my car has 250,000 miles they always ask me how many batteries have you gone through lol
Wait til the ICE guys replace their timing belt at every 100K, try $1200
At the dealership...but you can easily go to the an independent garage + source the OEM part online. Spend at best $650-750.
Most vehicles use a timing chain that lasts the life of the engine.
@@BrianNC81 True, it's the tensioners that begin to go bad which is still a costly repair due to the labor.... I speak from being an Audi A6 3.0T owner in the past.
@@williamgrunzweig571 at 165k on my BMW diesel. Hoping to get 250k out of it. The car is not worth much at 16 years old, probably not worth fixing a timing chain issue if it happened.
Transmission replacements at 120k, engine replacements at 150k. Both of those combined are more than a battery replacement that doesn’t happen until 300+k.
Pipes.....8:07 OMG the pipes on my ice vehicle just wore out and needed replacing.
Nice videos Ryan. I'd like to add that most of the data published here are about the battery degradation based on mileages, which is essentially closely correlated with cycle counts. Cycle count based degradation data is widely available in various research and suggests that the battery can easily last the lifetime*(how far one would possibly drive) of the vehicle.
However, there is another factor that I couldn't find a lot of data, which is calendar aging. Maybe the battery can only last X miles, or Y months, whichever comes first. And the current warranty period is only 8 years for Teslas, which, I believe, is still short compared to ICE cars which can last 10-20 years with proper care.
It's not that I'm anti EV and I do own a Tesla indeed, but I'll be keen to see if there are more researches done on calendar aging to give ICE fans a more wholistic picture of EV lifespan
144'000 km in my TM3 AWD with boost from 2020. Did one check at 60'000 (costs: 800CHF) and one at 100'000 (1200CHF), when I had the frunkopen-motor replaced. Otherwise no problems. Since I will need to do the 5 years check soon, I will have a big check soon.
What I’m curious to see is the impact of raw time. Very encouraging to see the folks that drive insane mileage having good battery performance, but I don’t drive my LFP M3 that far. About 1 year in and I’m at about 13k miles. I’m curious when I get to 10 years what it will look like compared to the folks who get to 130k miles in 3 weeks “normal” driving 😂.
LFP batteries should have amazing battery longevity. Likely twice as long as the NMC/NCA used previously by Tesla.
It's not clear what warranty you get on a battery pack when you pay out of warranty with Tesla. It's not clear you'll get a brand new battery when paying out of pocket. Questions I'd want a written answer to prior to plopping down $20k plus.
When I replaced our LEAF's battery we were issued new warranty paperwork which reset the battery warranty like it was a new car again. The battery was a new pack.
Sure...sell me a bridge, too
My 2021 model S lost 11.29% in 29,000 miles, just traded.... 63% super charging over time.
I was Listening to this in my first generation Volkswagen ID.4 with 88,789
2025 Tesla Model 3 LR RWD Full Self Driving handled 99% of my commute round trip. Def want a new Tesla this year.
My sister in laws car is on her second battery on their 2018 model Y long range. Covered under warranty. But I don’t want to pay the new car prices for a Tesla and have the huge depreciation
The Model Y came out in 2020 not 2018.
Great video Thank You!!!
That's why my first electric car will have at least a 300 mile range. Not because I ever drive 300 miles in a day, but because many batteries should only be charged to 80% and after 10 years it will only have about 85% of it's original range. To have a 200 mile range on an 80% charge after 15% battery degradation, the original max range needs to be 294 miles.
This is a very reasonable approach.
I understand your reasoning and I'll pick my first EV with the same logic but the numbers are a bit off. You can only use 60% of the max capacity daily - the range between 20% and 80% SOC. So 300 miles nominal range will give you only 153 miles after 85% degradation. (300 x 0,6 x 0,85)
LFP can be charged to 100% without significant issues.
Ok dude. 😂
Do any cars get the max range in real world? no. You need to take a 15% off from the official data to start off. Then account for degradation and the daily 20-80% charge…so if car has advertised 300 miles range, the real range is 255 miles, if there is degradation of 15% then range drops to 210 miles . And if you only use on average 60% of this, then real available range between charges is 135 miles….adjust that if you live in very cold climates or very hot ones.
It’s wild he changed his tires only twice for 300k miles. Tesla recommended me to change mine after 20k, but i changed it after 40k and believe it’s above average. Let’s see how it goes, my average is 20k/year.
While you may save on oil changes. You’ll most likely spend it on tires!
17:40 The $9k this owner paid for a replacement was a refurb battery.
My biggest concern is that a single 3€ cell faillure will cost me upwards of €15K to replace te complete pack. No right or companies to repair/replace just the cell or module.
Their are repair shops that can replace cells without replacing the whole pack. Experts expect the average price per Kw in 2030 to be at $69. If this holds true an 80Kw pack would cost around $5,500 Even if it were $8k and you can go another 200K + it's a win.
A single cell failure = battery degradation. Impact is less than 1%. Would you seriously going to notice it enough to need a whole pack replacement?
@@bloosi78 Degredation and cell failure are not the same thing.
A failed cell will take the pack down with it. The 1% has a 100% impact.
Our 2023 M3 RWD just passed 167,216 miles only ever supercharged and charges to 254 miles from it's original 272.
My 2024 M3 RWD now has 43,900 miles supercharged only and reaches 265 miles in Santa Clara Ca cold winter and never got close to 272.
Both 3's perform exactly the same since we got them (albeit my '24 adaptive suspension and dampening beats all other Tesla models), even though the '23 was hit by a Porsche McCann.
Needless to say this formerly decades long Toyota family is very pleased. Our next purchase will likely be a beat up old Toyota pick up in the event of climate related catastrophe and charging becomes an issue. Unless my kid gives back my Prius then we'll be okay.
On edit: If you read this far, we mostly charge to 100% everyday, and anywhere between 60-80% during the day before charging to 100% charging when the rates are lower.
183k on my 2019 3. ❤
I put 120k on it since Oct. 2023
You must live in the car to do that many miles. I have 27,000 on my 2023 Model Y LR AWD since March 2023.
great. so when My Model Y needs to change its battery if I ever needed..then it would be much cheaper than $2000.
I know even several years ago in CA some local repair shops offer refurbish / or refresh Tesla battery pack for $4000. It was several years ago when new battery pack was about $12000. so, obviously Their battery repair price would be much much cheaper than those future new battery cost in... like 2040.
either way I don't have to worry about changing battery..
So in this video we use Tesla degradation stats as the rule for the whole EV market? Why don’t we check degradation of Nissan Leafs which have been around for some time as well.
Because Nissan LEAF's are air cooled not liquid cooled, so their longevity is so so.
Tesla has 80% plus of all the EV’s out there currently.
So basically, if you lease an EV you should expect a serious loss on any buy back price due to the fact that the vehicles new price will decrease with the price of battery materials.
Not really. The automakers have been pocketing most of the battery cost reductions in the last decade.
model s, 165,000 miles, third battery set replaced at 14k pounds recon 2 year warranty, maybe newer models are better
The cost of $20,000 for replacing the battery in the Tesla Model S seems excessively high. I managed to replace my 85kWh battery with another 85kWh unit for just under $11,500, which included labor costs. This was done after my 2013 Model S had accumulated 163,000 miles.
The bulk of Tesla's on the road are probably well short of 8 years or higher miles, it will be interesting to see what happens when higher numbers are hovering around the age/mileage limit. Tesla could be in trouble if a high number fail
Its 8 years of 120,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Many vehicles will be out of warranty well before 8 years. The number of vehicles approaching 8 years old with less than 120,000 miles is relatively small.
Watching this whilst my company 2020 LR Model 3 with 90k miles is back in the garage for a new £400 contactor to allow super charging, after spending 8k GBP so far 2024 and this year on new wishbones, knuckles, heatpump and manifold (2 months to repair), etc etc. Ive never known a car need so many repairs. My M3P with 13k miles is on its 3rd new battery and has had numerous repairs. Fortunately Tesla has a service centre in Milton Keynes which is where i live but ultimately as soon as your out of warranty you get billed heavily.
Would i recommend a used Tesla to anyone out of warranty? Not really, only if you have more money than sense and love driving loner cars every few weeks whilst your car is back in for repair.
Lease and return it every 2/3 years before it starts to fall apart.
Tesla Model 3 and Model Y shine with durability and innovation. The Toyota bZ4X also delivers outstanding efficiency and reliability in the electric SUV market.
Great news love MYP
Good ol battery b roll
I wonder if battery manufacturers want to hold off delivering solid state battery technologies until Aircraft are using it and then only sell it to aircraft manufacturers as they would undercut themselves.
7:10 they forgot the 12v battery. My 2020 model had it replaced twice already.
The newer ones have lithium ion 12v batteries that aren’t supposed to ever need replacing
@ well the one in the video has 300k miles. It can’t be one of the newer ones?
What about the drive units?? Funny no one mentions how often the very expensive drive units and motors must be replaced.
The early Model S had serious issues with drive units. 3 and Y have not seen the same type of failures. Not sure its relevant anymore.
I’m wondering if charging at home daily is worse than charging every other day. When I get home I just plug in regardless how far I drive.
Watch engineering explained’s video on battery degradation. They studied this for all battery types and break down the best practices for each battery type. Basically they were able to kill a battery in as little as 40k miles and make one last over a million, I want to say it was like 3 million, just based on different charging habits. If you don’t want to watch it, basically all battery damage is done in the 85-100% range, and letting it discharge below 15-20-% was also causing some other damage; their sweet spot was to charge from 20-80% as often as you need to
Many of those who buy Tesla’s say outright, they will sell their vehicle before the warranty runs out, so they don’t take care of the battery. Many people buy a Tesla for the acceleration. If the battery is below 70% charge, it’s not nearly so fast, so they charge to 100% as often as possible so their car stays fast - this is especially true for the performance variants. My sister doesn’t know ANYTHING about batteries and always charges to 95-100%, even on road trips. She treats the battery as a gas tank. She will sell before the warranty expires. She has 16% degradation on her 3 year old car, she doesn’t care. She is not an enthusiast, she likes the way it drives. Any owners like her will likely not have such good batteries, or care about it because they will dump their cars. Buying a used BEV is still risky. Remove the risk by increasing the warranty. I shouldn’t have to suffer $10K+ expense because I bought my sister’s used car. Note IDK why but several people I know who had battery replacements were told to replace one or both motors, I haven’t heard anyone mention this before and have no idea if this is an issue or not.
The new Model Y is out in China. Can we get a video please 😊
Gas cars also lose range over time. I never see studies on that!
2022 M3 st 85,000km. Averaging 100km a day
I think the concern is the risk.. cost of maint over time.. is easily handled. a sudden $15K battery replacement is NOT easily handled. even if that risk is very low.
If you are concerned about this your best bet is a Toyota Hybrid.... gives you many of the benefits of EV.. low cost of operations, brakes last 120K or so.. just oil changes mostly.
Mine went 425K.. I know several people that drive them.. all are over 400K.. a couple of them are over 500K.
But I do love my EV also... but it is not the massive savings I like. I drive about 60K per year . EV saves me about $2500 per year over the Prius... not really a big deal overall.
When the batteries get older, do they emit anything that might be harmful?
Still, can someone explain why the labor cost to replace Model 3 battery is $ 2300 ? That seems scammy to me. As if "we are working on an expensive part" so we can charge high labor fee without the customer noticing it. Can someone in the know elaborate on this? Thanks.
Battery prices coming down is good for a new EV, but will they still make the battery for your 10yo car by then?
Oil changes are close to $100 now
For real?
Sheesh!
“Shocking” let’s get into it.
How much money do they take off the invoice to take my old battery so it can be recycled?
You can sell them for thousands
Typically replacement packs require you to return the core. Your ability to sell the used pack is not typically an option.
Elon should buy back that high mile tesla to physically inspect and understand what aspects contributed to its longevity.
In the US EV batteries have to have a 8 year 100,000 mile warranty. There is no legal requirement at all for gas powered cars.
Why to people always respond to the question "how long will it last" with an answer measured in miles which is not a measure of time?
How many years will the battery last to 80% degradation if managed optimally ?
How are cars measured? By their mileage for that is what they are used for.
My model 2023 model y battery degradation was about 10% in one year and when I took it to tesla service they said it was normal they did not even bother to do battery test they just checked for the history.
Was it with 4680 battery or LG chem ?
It is model Y performance 2023 so I believe the battery is the older one not the new 4060 that tesla makes.
My original range was 303 now it is 265
My usable battery battery is about 67kw
@@markt2407 thats seems like a massive loss for only one year. Maybe a dumb question since you have the Performance version but did you floor it a lot ?
I've read that it also has a significant impact on degradation of its very frequent.
My 3 year old model 3 has only lost around 5%
I floor it once a while, but I travel a lot and use the supercharger most of the time, and I drove about 35k miles in one year, but still, 10% is a lot.
My 2023 model Y long range also lost 10% within the first year too.
Great cars
I really wouldn't want to have a standard range with lower range because of battery degradation, which on top you are not supposed to fast charge to more than 90%, and in winter you're going to lose further range.
Also 70% is a pretty lousy warranty that tesla is giving here. As I keep saying, there's no good deals with tesla
70% is the industry standard threshold that triggers a warranty.
I don't think even Tesla realizes the extent of what they've done. These used EVs driving like new hitting the used market are becoming Tesla's biggest competitor. And just wait till 3rd party batteries and refurbish centers become a thing. I hope this doesn't make Tesla embrace planned obsolescence on future models.
The oil change argument is silly IMO. A couple $50 ICE oil changes a year is nothing to Tesla depreciation alone.
Because gas cars don't depreciate. /s
@ gas cars depreciate much slower
@@johnphillips7894 Some do some don't