Yeah - I saw the warnings about storing PLA and ignored them - I have no problems with even 13 year old PLA that's been stored in an unheated/uncooled storage facility in Dallas, TX.
@Kodokushi` Well, now I think about it - it was the transparent filament that came with my 2009 MakerBot! The MakerBot is long gone ...but the filament was at the bottom of the box containing the recycled stepper motors, bearings and stuff that I kept after the MakerBot was scrapped. However, the filament lived for all of those years in various storage units, garages and workshops in south-west Texas and NewMexico - where it's generally hot and with very low humiditiy. I never use dehumidifiers or store my PLA carefully in bags or whatever...and I don't have problems with it. But in a humid climate - that stuff would have been dust by now!
I headed up a NASA study regarding using 3D printing in space. One of our findings was that ABS and Nylon filaments did not create a measurable amount of particulates when extruded if they were desiccated to 25% RH prior to using them. They put off large amounts of particulates when stored at 50% RH then extruded. That's a great reason by itself to dry your filaments. Regarding strength... I've found that prints using several year old Zortrax ABS filament are more brittle and delaminate much easier even though print quality is the same.
@@itmovesitchats I'm not sure. It was a SBIR Phase 1 project with the "Space plastics recycling" in the title. It was 4 years ago or so and I don't remember the exact title but that should get you close if it is publicly available.
I have experienced the PLA cracking issue too. Especially with 3mm diameter PLA. My best guess is that it gradually forms to the tight coil shape of the spool. Then unwinding the filament generates stress cracks on the inside of the coil shape. To solve this on the 3mm filament I made a small resistive heater tube that the filament passed through just as it came off the spool during printing. The tube was about 25mm long. This heated the filament to about 65 degrees C and slightly softened it, allowing it to straighten out without forming cracks. It also prevented the feed tube from coiling up.
I think that it could be related to the absorption of moisture into the PLA. Generally only a short term problem in Nylon and PETG but most plastics are somewhat capable of collecting moisture from the air, especially over long periods of time. There could be some weird heat cycle related polymer physics going on though so I can't say for sure.
I usually have this problem when I let the filament loaded into the extruder for a long time after a print. After 1 to 2 days it can be broken very easily. Sometimes it snaps without interfering with it at all. But I also have some rainbow pla with a really shiny surface and this one never broke this way
@@HB-ps6rn I have always wondered if moisture is a factor as well. The thing that makes me think it might not be, is that after baking the filament at about 60C for several hours, it doesnt seem to prevent cracking. However maybe the damage is already done... its definitely is something that happens over time though because new spools don't seem to have a problem.
@@gusmartin6053 Interesting to hear. I've done a bit of reading on it and it seems that the hydrolytic reaction isn't reversible so baking it may dry it but not necessarily repair the broken polymer chains. From what I've read it could also be caused by photodegredation or oxidization. It would be a good experiment to put some PLA into some H2O2 or other oxidizing agent to see if it degrades in the same way.
Interesting results Angus. I've dried TPU with excellent results. I generally print it directly from the dryer like you did. If I can find before and after pics I'll tag you on twitter with the comparison. I've dried PLA at a lower temperature and had decent results as well but it didn't get near as soft as yours either. Thanks for sharing!
If you don't want to destroy the bottoms of the food dehydrator (3:24) you can also use a microwave lid instead. In my case the microwave lid from IKEA called Prickig just fits perfect! It has a diameter of 26cm, my food dehydrator has 25,6cm.
Another good tip for cheap filament drying is 'crystal kitty litter'. Its just silica gel desiccant, but much, MUCH cheaper than buying packets off eBay.
be careful with that shit though... It will suck up all moisture in the air, and once its full all excess moisture will build up around the bag. If you placed it right next to your filament, you filament will be even more gone
You can use 25kg bags of calcium salt for pools to dry bulk filaments, if you wanna go more expensive, lithium salts are more efficient. Table salt works too.
Incidentally I went through troubleshooting my petg prints this week. They all seemed to delaminate and break very easily. I tried different temps, cooling etc. What worked was drying the filament in a dehydrator for about 7 hours. After that the parts are not brittle but more plyable and strong. Perfectly matches your results with the octopus leg breaking off. Great vid!
PETG suffers from hydrolysis if processed in the presence of moisture. Basically it means that the polymer chains will be broken as they chemically react with water at melt temperatures which lead to lower physical properties, so your results are perfectly normal. (I work in industrial plastics)
Angus, as always, another great video. I look forward to all of your videos for their helpfulness. To the point, I was able to rescue a very brittle spool of PLA with my dehydrator. Here's how: I have a temperature controlled Rosewill Food Dehydrator. Rather than sacrificing the trays, I found out a clear Better Homes & Gardens Round Cake Carrier fits the dehydrator perfectly. I drilled a 15mm hole in the top of the carrier for ventilation. The Rosewill keeps fairly accurate temps. I had a spool of PLA that was so brittle it was impossible to use. Having nothing to lose, I put the spool in the dehydrator at 45c for 4-5 hours (per the PrintDry website). The unusable spool of PLA returned to a perfectly pliable spool that I was able to use through to the very end. The brittle spool was stored in the open air. I live in Vegas, so you would not think humidity would be a problem. But since then, I am a firm believer in keeping my spools dry. Now I store all my spools in large tubs with desiccant. I haven't had a brittleness problem since.
I commented about him drying his PETG for more consistent results after his most recent video exploring the effects part cooling has on overall print strength. He responded by saying "Yes, probably. But who dries his PETG all of the time?" which makes it seem like he probably doesn't bother with drying that much.
Hi Angus. I really enjoy your videos as they are well made and very informative. In the past I worked with a Markforged desktop printer. The machine is known for printing in nylon and allowing you to embed continuous fiber (glass, carbon or Kevlar) in the print. When you purchase the printer it comes with a Pelican brand watertight box that is connected to the print head with a tube. The filament comes sealed in a vacuum bag with desiccant pouch or two. The filament then lives in the Pelican box with the desiccant pouches and stays sealed in the tube till extrusion. The machine lays down a healthy purge line between prints unless it has been sitting for a while. Then the purge line gets really heavy. As far as strength of wet vs dry nylon. Wet nylon tends to be stronger than dry. In injection molding the nylon is dried so you can mold it then it is allowed to absorb moisture to gain strength. Some shops even place newly molded parts in a bag with some water to accelerate the process.
I bought a cheap one from Amazon (sold under multiple names, including Rosewill, Flexzion, Eastman Outdoors, etc.) that has a basic temperature control. In fact, there's a company called PrintDry that sells the EXACT SAME unit for a lot more money; their main selling point is that they include custom trays instead of the plastic grates. I just used the same trick of cutting out the grates from all but one of the trays, and it works really well. If you really wanted the custom trays you could buy the dryer from Amazon and the custom trays from PrintDry and you'd save some money AND have the original food drying trays if you ever wanted them. :)
There's 3D printable tray extenders on Thingiverse for the Westinghouse model of dehydrator. But I'm sure Angus could model his own if he wanted to. :)
I got lucky with the cheap food dehydrator I bought, it didn't need the trays being snipped out, they were already designed to be taken out whilst keeping the cylinder shell intact.
I think the PLA snapping is related to moisture. I’ve left two roles if pla in a cabinet for a few months a while back, one in a bag with Silica gel, and one without. The one in the bag didn’t break, the one without the bag did
Thanks to your video, I used a food dehydrator to dry out some really bad PLA. The result: all but one reel revived perfectly; my oldest filament got better, but is still unusable due to bad layer adhesion. Thanks for saving almost all of my filament!
Great job, informative video. This makes nylon seem more encouraging! As you noticed, PC has a pretty insane bonding strength (unlike ABS), but like ABS it wants to pull off the bed from the thermal stresses. I use the textured build sheet on the Prusa with Magigoo PC (Prusa doesn't recommend putting anything on this sheet but there is no way around it here). For anything bigger than 5 inches or so I put the Prusa in a pop-up photo tent. I prefer PCMAX (now called Polymax PC), I haven't done pure PC on the Prusa. You would probably need an enclosure more often with pure PC just due to the higher print temperatures increasing the stress. Some settings: Bed at 110C, chamber temp around 38C. Fan off but you can use 10-15% for bridges and for autocooling with smaller parts. Perimeter width 2x nozzle diameter, 1.5x for outside perimeters, only print with 0.15mm layer height. Also I'll use makerbot's old "helper disks" to drop on any corners in the slicer to keep them down (0.3mm thick). Ref. Github user metacollin's PC settings, except use 0.15mm layer height: gist.github.com/metacollin/18ecb0a58fb475cfae86e0781bf51325
I print primarily in PLA, and despite incredible warping inside a food dehydrator, it works very well in a 3D pen, no so In a .4mm nozzle on my ender3 with a stock hotend. What I do is get a reasonably larger plastic Tupperware than the spools(about 180% the space the spools take up) and use a chemical dehydration agent(basically salt) and a cheese cloth full of rice(about 1kg). This has seriously improved my print quality and my modified ender3 pro is on par or better than a Prusia. It was about $600 for all the hardware(minus spools) and my drying agent can be picked up for about $20 including the Tupperware(I use a food safe 5gal bucket) at any hardware store. This solution is far better than a dehydrator as you’re not introducing heat. It takes about 7 days to renew a 1kg spool to brand new, and said spool will last roughly 10 days outside the Tupperware in the humid Midwest. For $20 invested($8 bucket, $7 dehydration agent, $5 rice, $2 plastic wrap for sealing) this solution is unbeatable.
Excellent. Bought myself a cheap dehydrator a couple of weeks ago just for drying PETG. Didn't know it was a "thing" ..... much better to be lucky than good!
We've had a wet spring in 2023 in the south of the US. My new roll of eSun white PLA sat on the printer for 3 weeks and started snapping like spaghetti. I have a dehydrator from back in the 90's with no thermostat but airflow is right at 115 degrees. Amazing how a $12 appliance kept all these years is back in service.
Always the shiz'ouk' Angus - TY for taking the time out with this stuff. I came home with a simple used food dehydrator over the summer, and just found my plug-in lamp adjustable lamp dimmer to make use of with it [the food dehydrator] as night, as... ...the default [single-setting ON/OFF switch] took things to the level of "a lil' to toasty" for my white Chromatica PLA. ;) Getting a cheap handheld IR thermometer will serve one well also with these extra cheap food dehydrators. Excellent and very empowering content as always - thank you for your time and effort you put forth.
No real conclusion on PLA, and it's the most common material. I found a difference personally after I got a PrintDry. My PLA filament was crackling and popping before I dried it and I got a better surface finish when dry.
@S A Maybe not for $140, but what about at $34? That's what I paid for a food dehydrator on Amazon and, after a "quick" converter print, was up and running.
@@ncurley999 In Germany you pay around 0.28€ for 1kW/h (and thats cheap). I would pay 140€ if it need less energy coz its better isolated and maybe better controlled by the system. After a year of constant usage of the dryer it doesnt make a huge difference if you pay 34 or 140... the energy is the worst cost.
I got back into 3d printing after about a 6 year break. Started printing with some PLA that i got when i got my first printer without doing anything to the filament. Worked perfectly
A note on food dehydrators: you do not have to cut its original plates. Instead you could try to find a suitable size microwave oven lid. They come in various sizes and they ususally have a hole in the top, so they work really well to dry filament spools :)
Found a clear bucket at a $2plus type shop, that fitted near perfectly and added a couple of holes at the top. I even made a roll holder to feed the printer with warm filament. Was having trouble with some snapping and this helps soften the filament.
About 2ish years back, I, for some reason, bought a half kilo roll for a 3d pen I've used maybe used twice. It's been sitting in the bag it came in a locker ever since. Can't wait to try and use it
Living in the low humidity of Alaska, and storing my filament rolls out of direct sunlight, (because we do have more than 16hrs of it for months), this also makes me feel better about how and where my PLA is stored.
I had a roll of PLA in the basement 4 years and then in attic for 2 more years, just took it out and put it over the radiator for 24 h, and got amazing reults.
I'm in injection molding, Heavier Mats like policarb are usually dried at 250F/120C for at least 8 hours before we start a job. If we're not sure we'll let it go in the oven overnight.
You're not monitoring humidity in the dryer? We would do a thousand pounds at a time, and base our drying time off measured moisture content, not time.
@@otm646 moisture inside dryer doesn't mean moisture in filament tho. Assuming the humidity outside of the dryer isn't too much, temperature and time will dry your filament.
I use a portable room dehydrator and stick it in a small closet or sometimes a large cardboard box and leave it running set to minimum humidity for about five hours with the filament sitting on the ground next to it. This technique worked like a treat with my stringy petg and pla. The air gets to around 100F or about 38C by an hour in.
I've been drying PLA in the oven, using a thermometer to keep an eye on the *actual* temperature. It basically needs to be on the lowest setting, and even then it will still overshoot initially. So: turn the oven on, wait for the temperature to stabilize *below* the glass transition temp of your material. And keep an eye on it. Don't leave it on the spool! Separate it from the spool, place it on something flat! The material shrinks and will tighten up on the spool.
I have always printed PA straight from the dryer. Other filaments that I appreciate being printed straight from the dryer include: Igus J260, PC, and Ninjaflex
Angus, I print with pure PC from time to time. My experience is that it behaves similarly to nylon but the effects are not as noticable. When wet, PC prints will be more milky with less layer adhesion and overall strength. It will also be a bit more runny and therefore stringy.
I too do some printing with pure PC, and live in a very humid area. The real difference in my experience is strength and layer adhesion. The appearance of the print is not that greatly changed between wet and dry PC, but the layer adhesion is very greatly effected, with wet PC, even printed at 300+C having somewhat poor adhesion, and fresh/freshly dried PC having excellent to exceptional layer adhesion. I also make functional parts with PC and the hydrolysis that occurs in extruding wet PC (even only slightly wet) does effect the strength signifficantly. Wet printed PC is noteably brittle compared to dry. I also see worse problems in wet PETG than Angus's results and although it's not as hygroscopic as nylon I treat it almost the same way in order to get best results.
Hi Angus, that was a pretty nice test of the topic. I think one thing that would help for the issues you had drying PLA is a temperature controlled dehydrator. As you mentioned, the PLA was damaged by overheating, and conversely some materials might actually need higher temperatures. I've had very good results drying PLA that was causing massive stringing (Hatchbox wood PLA) and while not completely eliminated, drying turned a spool that was basically unprintable into one that gave good results. Principles for plastics drying are the same as in injection molding, though typically don't cause as much problem in extrusion for 3D printing since the visual quality of FFF printing normally can't reach the quality of molding. I want to do some more moisture testing at work, though it takes quite a bit of plastic to get a good test result (about 50 grams). I have done one test on a spool of ABS left out for months in ambient and moisture content went from 0.9% down to about 0.1% after drying, and made a good improvement in print quality. For molding, typical ABS recommended moisture level is around 0.02%.
Thankyou for this video, it really cleared things up for me! We have loads of old donated filament spools at our new Makerspace (here in Adelaide), nice to know we won't need to dehydrate most of them!
I find that drying is effective for Nylon and PETG. With Nylon the moisture issue is obvious - as seen (steam, bubbles, popping). For PETG it can at times be less obvious that there is a moisture issue. It can manifest itself in ways that look like there is a printer issue - from 'chalky' colouring to blobs and stringing to poor first layers and inter-layer adhesion. 10-12 hours in the dehydrator and everything 'magically' gets fixed. BTW - the PrintDry dehydrator is really excellent for this.
I see the same when using PETG. It strings a lot less and seems to print with fewer artifacts when dried. These days I store dried PETG rolls in vacuum sealed bags.
I also mentioned PLA to snap after the print if its a bit older or was exposed to moisture or normal environment without putting it into a bag or something. Seems to be normal. It stopped after i dried it 1h in the oven at 50°C.
I grab a roll of PLA out of the shed the other day that had been sitting open for 5years. I took the top layer off to get rid of most of the dust then made a quick filament sweeper. And it printed like magic
Useful video. I was having issues with an (old) filament spool I tried to use, and a web search told me filament expires in 2 years. I decided to do some research. My other spool was clearly bad for whatever reason, but others that were as old seem to be doing fine. Dunno.
The food dehydrator works for sure. I just bought a brand new roll of armadillo TPU. It came with one tiny little dry pack. When I put it on my printer it was spitting and popping and full of moisture. One overnight in my dehydrator and it was like butta
I had my PLA-rolls and printer in the same area as my washing-machine and my PLA started snapping off after just a few weeks. Now i store them in a plastic container with some silica-gel and they work just fine. So i guess moisture from my washing-machine was the issue here tho. Love your videos, so keep up the good work. :)
PLA can crystalize over time which leads to the snapping. When it's heated it crystalizes as well. I also have some rolls from 2013 of 3mm filament (with dyes) that I've gotten bad print quality with on my fixer upper printer from 2012.
I do dry my filament. I have numerous comparison tests where I took PLA that was stringing a lot and dried it, and it does wonders. I have a dehydrator that has a temperature control, so it makes it easier. It makes a real big change for fiber filled PLAs. I don't print a lot in PETG (but IIRC, it doesn't really absorb moisture). PLA doesn't absorb much moisture, but I still have gotten better results out of drying it then not. No experience with any of the other materials you tried (though I should run my Taulman PCTPE through it). I also have a dry box that I run the filament out of, so that helps. I will agree on the time. I have read or heard people drying filament for 12, 24, even 48 hours. I don't think I've run anything for longer then 8 hours, and that was because I forgot I had it running. Results were better then pre-dry, but never seen a real difference between 3-5 hours vs. 12/24 hours.
Found this as I have a roll of PLA that snaps as soon as try to straighten to put in the extruder - 2 hours only in the oven at about 60ºC, and now is bendy and does not snap 🤷♂️
Just used a 5 year old spool of Natural ABS a few days ago that I had recently dehydrated but never used and it was the best print I have ever had in ABS. I was testing the SKR V1.3 and Marlin 2.0 and due to 32bit controllers never pausing everything was the smoothest I have ever seen for 0.2mm layer height. I was floored.
Unless or until you know for sure what temp you actually end up with (thermostats in these things can be a bit inaccurate), 45°C is just as good, but significantly safer. Some PLA+additive blends has glass transition as low as 50 C. You can ofc do trial and error, and learn that way with consistent brands and batches, but if it's some rare or precious filament, or it's time sensitive, that margin can save the day.
My PLA definitely is negatively affected by humidity!! No question! I can hear it crackle going through the nozzle and it gets a bit more stringy when printed, with a bunch of zits on the print surface. The filament is also MUCH more brittle before printing!! (which seems antithetical that humidity would make it more brittle rather than mushy) I've improved it BOTH with "active drying" (I used a convection oven) AND using plenty of rechargeable desiccant over several days in a sealed dry box getting the humidity down to 10%.
You might have better chances with PLA by trying to (keep) dry with a dehumidifier rather than a dehydrator; the main reasons the two are different is that dehydrators usually depend on a flow of heated air to extricate moisture from food, whereas dehumidifiers instead *_cool_* air so that the moisture in it condenses into water (which is then discarded periodically, or fed into plumbing or a flower pot or whatever works for you). If you have a small storage room for your materials, keeping moisture-sensitive stuff in it with a dehumidifier is a fairly cheap operation. It can be done even more cheaply if you make use of a small cabinet and a Peltier dehumidifier (usually really small, not as efficient [i.e. take longer for the same effect], but perfectly silent and ridiculously energy-saving).
I found the same . I live in Queensland where it humid as hell and never had to dry anything, (abs and pla used). The rolls are only 2-3 years old but still work!!
I haven't had any issues with my PLA, either. Other than it sometimes snapping if left out for months. My PETG starts to print okay and then the stringing gets worse throughout each print. I've started keeping those in dry boxes and might get a cheap dehydrator now. Thanks, Angus!
I got loads lying around, must be around 5 years old by now, I used it now and it is not great but it is still work without breaking the filaments. It is very fragile, I just put it in the oven just an hour around 40-50C and filament strength it before I put it in my 3d printer. My 3d printer is Nereus from Tevo.
In my experience, drying PLA at 45C works wonders. I keep rechargable dessicant packs in a cabinet where I store my PLA and rotate those out every week or so to recharge them (they have a wall plug built into them to dry out the dessicant). It's worth noting that where I live, the summer air gets to about 50% humidity. In the winter it's more like 15%-18% so I don't worry about it as much. But PLA that's left out gets brittle and I have lots more issues with it than when I try it out ahead of time. Same with the PETG as Angus found here. Drying out PETG the day before I use it works wonders.
I was gonna buy a dehydrator, then i stumbled upon mom's old OLD OLD hair dryer, old enough to burn your hands if you keep the nozzle pointed at it too long. Had old filament, had to use it in a pinch, had nothing to lose, so i stuck the end in the hole, rotated it with a crank and put the hair dryer on high enough time to see the filament end go limp as it was sticking out of the hole. There was a lot of snapple and crackle, but no cracks appeared on the filament so far. Ever since, i have been heating my filament in the same way each time i print, regardless of age of the filament or quality and man oh man, results are smooth as butter. No more blisters, no more cracked filament, no more snapping. HOWEVER, there is on side effect that's not welcome. Each time i finish a run, i have to roll the filament back. Leaving it hanging either free in the air or inside a feeder tube, it will snap. So you do have to be weary of that.
hey there. long time lurker. i figured i would chime in. im a injection molding process tech RJG cert. generally speaking ....ABS/nylon/acrylic/PET/PBT/Polyurethane/polycarb need to be dried before extrusion or molding which in this case your extruding them. defects can vary from delamination. bubbling. brittle materials and many others depending on how your using the materials. good rule of thumb is to look at your MDS for each of those materials and they can tell you what temp and for how long and what % the moisture content should be for use.
Great insight Angus. I bought a food dehydrator last year, specifically for drying filament .... never needed to use it yet. But I do like to be prepared 👍
You are my legend and i will explain you why and dont think i want promote my chanel.... Because evrything start with you! I was interesting about 3d printing but newer think to buy it i go on youtube where i find many your videos many your explanations so i decide to buy my first CR 10 s4 i was happy to trying but i must say i have many many problems with that printer... Many solutions i found by you i was totally beginer... You insoired me trying new materials my prints was so crapy long time so i buy ultimaker 3 and afcorse i buy a working horse.... From time i have it i buy also priusa because i see it on your videos and i see its work great.... I learned with you how to improve my prints how to use thinkercad haha i never forget so stuoid easy for beginers and later i start with fushion 360 (still busy with learning) you open my word to creativity eaven if im still for my self beginer... I try with timelapse i love it to look so one day i decide to make my ovn youtube channel whitch one is afcorse in begining and i dont care how many views i get... But you was my motivation from beginning and i want to thank you very much Small videos like your can change people life at least is change my one!
Thanks for the vid, great info as always. I did my own testing last year with an ALDI dehydrator and had very similar results to you. I also live in Australia, so we would have similar environmental conditions. I came to the same conclusion that PLA, ABS & ASA do not need to be dried. Nyon absolutely needs to be dried and PETG can definitely benefit from drying. I found that TPU seemed to also benefit from drying and exhibited less stringing and a better print surface. I also just looked at an old spool of clear PLA and it also snaps easily and has hairline cracks in it.
I am not even joking, I started with a Cupcake CNC 3d printer and I have some 10 year old filament... I tried it and it worked surprisingly well! The prints looked a bit wiggly and weird but it worked! Abs but no dehydrations
I used to work in a plastics plant where we made PP closures and PET bottles. The PP went straight from the hopper to the extruder, but the PET we had material dryers that we would wait at least 4 hours on before we started making bottles. The reason fo it is that PET is very susceptible to moisture and the plastic would cloud badly (in our transparent bottle) and delaminate even though it was injection molded. The clouding was very apparent in our particular bottles because they were stretch blow molded which increased strength. Heck , even our air compressors had systems in place to make sure the air we blew the bottles with was as dry as possible
i just got an old ender3 printer with a spool of black Geeetech PLA Filament. The spool was from 2018 (now its 2024). The spool was unpacked and printed perfect!
I’ve been using same dehydrator since over 2 years now and it works great for me. I heat PLA at 45c if I am keeping it overnight and at 50c if I am heating it for few hours. The problem I observed with PLA and PETG is after drying as it is coming back to room temperature, it becomes more absorbent and hence, I put it in a closed box with a lot of silica gel first and then use it for printing once it’s back to room temperature. But yes this dehydrator consumes loads of electricity
I've had improvement with petg and pla drying. Nylon and tpu are required. I dry everything from new and keep it all in a dessicant box with 4 spool holders in it. Works great! You definitely need a temp controlled dehydrator though (I paid $35 for mine)
Try drying your PLA in the refrigerator, using DRY air instead of HOT air. Just make sure you place it in a sealed bag immediately after removing from the fridge, until it gets back to ambient temperature. Also works by placing the spool next to an air conditioner's cold air output, tested with ABS and it became much less brittle.
You really need a temperature controlled dehydrator to get the best results. But I'll agree that drying PLA and ABS are a waste of electricity. I live in a temperate rainforest environment with extremely high ambient humidity, and my moisture sensitive filaments get stored in a dessicant filled dry box. Basically everything but ABS and PLA go in there. The most moisture sensitive filament I've used is Ultem 1010. The extremely high print temperature (close to or over 400C) means that even small amounts of residual moisture become steam, and even at
Hi Angus...at first..thanks for all the good videos. Keep up the good work :) ... to the topic.... if you don´t want to spend money on a filament dryer you can put the filament in your oven at 60-70 degrees celcius for around half an hour. Does a pretty good job in my experience.
Interesting results. I think you must live in a dryer climate than I do. I always place my opened rolls of filament in ziplock bags with desiccant. My experience in my climate: PLA: Will get brittle if left out for a couple of weeks. PETG: Will extrude stringy with lots of blobs after a couple of weeks in the open. I now print straight from a filament dryer and life is better :-)
I have 7 year old Octave brand ABS and it still prints fine on my Afinia H479. Stored in a Sterilite storage container with a loose fitting lid. Not airtight by any stretch. So I agree and see the same results with ABS.
I have the same HK ABS roll, the brow one. For PC you should try 110degC on the bed, if it can maintain this temp. If it still doesn't stick, then either up the bed temp to 120degC, again if it can be maintained, or use a draft shield and a brim. Also, try it on the prusa.
I have good luck with PC using 110c bed and PVA glue on glass. Larger prints are still a warping hazzard, but stuff the size of Angus's test blocks is easy and reliable. I have tried CA glue slurry as well, and though the print had good bed adhesion, i ruined a glass so I won't bother doing that again unless I need a large functional PC part.
I have only printed with PC once, and I had to print at 280°C because that is the maximum my printer could handle. I only had a sample which I manually wrapped around a small spool. This proved to be a terrible idea because the filament seemed to have absorbed a lot of my sweat during this wrapping operation, and it foamed and bubbled like crazy. The print looked horrible and was unusable. I then put the filament in a heated air oven at about 100°C for several hours, and this made a huge difference. The extrusions where crystal clear and the print was perfect. From your test it seems PC won't absorb moisture as easily from the air and I also suspect the humidity to stay relatively low where you have stored your filament. If you would have done your water soaking test with PC, it would have probably been pretty dramatic. About the PLA cracking: I also experience this, especially if I unload filament from a direct drive extruder. The tiny cuts from the extruder gear will often evolve into a crack and the filament breaking at those places. This seems to be less of an issue after drying the filament (taking care to stay well below 60°C so that the filament doesn't get ruined as in your test), which seems to make it somewhat less brittle.
Yes, I print mainly PETG and can confirm that wet PETG is more brittle and also strings and blobs more. However, be careful when drying PETG. I've had spools of PETG fuse into solid blocks at the same temperature at which I dry PLA. PETG is just dying to fuse with itself at high temperatures.
I'm still using up some old MakerBot PLA filament from back in 2012, no problem. It has gotten very brittle, but prints just fine, the prusa MMU2S does tend to break it at the intake on a regular basis.
I liked the video for two reasons - First I duscussed the issue with a family member just recently, and secondly you can present some real life experience, even if most people don't store filaments in buckets with water. :-D I'd say the conclusion is still, that keeping it dry is recommendable, and I can't agree on the dehydrator in general, because it consumes power, where silicagel only needs to be baked a few times a year, depending on the container you store your filament in. After all 3D-printers are not exactly friendly to the environment, so every little consideration can have an impact.
Disappointed in the PLA test. PLA is generally dried at 40 to 45 c. You didn't even try with PLA you just gave up when the machine melted it, it's one of the most used filaments out there!
Very useful. Thanks. I got a dryer in Freegle (a site like Freecycle). People buy them and then find they don't use them and will often be glad to give them away. Incidentally, sometimes crap filament has its uses. I got some really cheap clear PETG and used it for lampshades with a 0.6 nozzle. It pops and is very inconsistent, but in that application looks great. Now on the 4th roll of the stuff.
Exactly my findings. I dont use PC but do use ABS, PETG and Nylon. Nylon in dehydrator with hole in side works perfect. No need to dry ABS at all. Very true. 👍 And please ignore Phillip people. I think he has issues. 🤪
@@EngineeringTechnikcom I think their ABS plus is maybe different to normal ABS my friend. No need to swear. Just do some research instead and you will see why. So yeah. NORMAL ABS is fine.
@@EngineeringTechnikcom Wrong. And you sound like a toss. Only little toy is the one up your rear end. Would love to meet up. Sorry....we live in Stralia mate..not Singapore. Idiot.
@@EngineeringTechnikcom haha. More evidence you are an idiot. Thank you for confirming. Sorry clown. No excess moisture. Deal with it. Its not Nylon..its not PETG...It is ABS. Go play with your overpriced printer that you dont even own. Bahahahaha
I would say it's worth paying the extra for a dehydrator with temperature control, typically these won't be much more but give you a much greater range of control over time/temp settings. Mine works from 30c - 90c and having a built in timer is a really nice feature if you do ever want to use it for its normal (food based) purpose!
Very good vid, and it points the topic of polycarbonate which you should definitetly do another video about. It is an incredible material and not that hard to print but there are a few key tricks to it. 1) The marketing force is strong with this one. Real polycarbonate is getting hard to find. With the aim to make it more printable most "polycarbonate" spools are not polycarbonate but some stinky mystery goo (most known example Priline PC on amazon). Anything marketed with extrusion temperatures below 270°C is a blend even if it's not mentioned on the box. Print settings with these filaments are guessing games, so are their physical properties, the result is probably something between ABS and PETG. We are left with two options: even cheaper no name brands from china or the premium polymaker pc, one I have recently found is Gizmodorks PC. 2) Adhesion: There are many many myths and recomendations out there, from Super Glue to ULTEM sheets, but I have found only two things that work: The Purple Glue Stick on Glass (Your mileage with other brands may vary, I also tried the yellow Uhu brand which didn´t work at all. ) and HEAT HEAT HEAT. If your Bed can´t do >120°C don´t bother. It won´t stick. But when it does it DOES. I just ripped out a chuck of glass from my bed the other day trying to get a print off. Bed 135°C, Nozzle First Layer 320°C then 285, First Layer Height: 0.2, 40mm/s and a good layer of purple glue stick on glass. Large brims are also a good idea. 3) A heated chamber helps a lot, even if its just heated by the bed to around 50°C. 4) Moisture: It is not as bad as Nylon but it does take up humidity. Due to the high printing temperatures, the crackling moisture bubbles are very obvious if the filament needs drying.
I have been printing on 2014 filament for a few months. I got it with 2 Printrbot Plus Metals and am having no problems with it. It's mostly PLA. I have not dried it and it was stored in a basement without any protection from moisture.
I just bought a dehydrator myself. It works.. I`ve had a hard time printing wet ish PETG and no success with non-dried nylon. once dried, The PETG prints perfect, and the nylon well,.. turns out the printer is the problem.... Drying some pla also made it less brittle and bubbly.. definately a must do for older PLA. I used the Printdry temperatures as a guide, and so far so good (except for nylon. stupid nylon. and printer!)
I use a larger oven-style dehydrator with temperature control, and have found it helps a lot with PLA and PETG. Not a ton of difference in quality, but better surfaces and way less smell.
![[LIVE] BABYMONSTER(베이비몬스터) - DRIP | 두시탈출 컬투쇼](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UG05pxLGwzc/mqdefault.jpg)
This makes me feel better about how I store my pla
How do you store your pla
@@C0NFUZED_158 i'm sure he leaves it inside the water reservoir
stic
Yeah - I saw the warnings about storing PLA and ignored them - I have no problems with even 13 year old PLA that's been stored in an unheated/uncooled storage facility in Dallas, TX.
@Kodokushi` Well, now I think about it - it was the transparent filament that came with my 2009 MakerBot! The MakerBot is long gone ...but the filament was at the bottom of the box containing the recycled stepper motors, bearings and stuff that I kept after the MakerBot was scrapped. However, the filament lived for all of those years in various storage units, garages and workshops in south-west Texas and NewMexico - where it's generally hot and with very low humiditiy. I never use dehumidifiers or store my PLA carefully in bags or whatever...and I don't have problems with it. But in a humid climate - that stuff would have been dust by now!
I headed up a NASA study regarding using 3D printing in space. One of our findings was that ABS and Nylon filaments did not create a measurable amount of particulates when extruded if they were desiccated to 25% RH prior to using them. They put off large amounts of particulates when stored at 50% RH then extruded.
That's a great reason by itself to dry your filaments.
Regarding strength... I've found that prints using several year old Zortrax ABS filament are more brittle and delaminate much easier even though print quality is the same.
Silly question, do those kind of studies get published online anywhere? I'd love to geek out over NASA 3D Printing studies :)
@@itmovesitchats I'm not sure. It was a SBIR Phase 1 project with the "Space plastics recycling" in the title. It was 4 years ago or so and I don't remember the exact title but that should get you close if it is publicly available.
interesting :)
This might explain why my old shelf filament smells like burning death compared to a fresh roll.
"Burning Death" ... hah - @@mimigaamigo7099
I have experienced the PLA cracking issue too. Especially with 3mm diameter PLA. My best guess is that it gradually forms to the tight coil shape of the spool. Then unwinding the filament generates stress cracks on the inside of the coil shape.
To solve this on the 3mm filament I made a small resistive heater tube that the filament passed through just as it came off the spool during printing. The tube was about 25mm long. This heated the filament to about 65 degrees C and slightly softened it, allowing it to straighten out without forming cracks. It also prevented the feed tube from coiling up.
I think that it could be related to the absorption of moisture into the PLA. Generally only a short term problem in Nylon and PETG but most plastics are somewhat capable of collecting moisture from the air, especially over long periods of time. There could be some weird heat cycle related polymer physics going on though so I can't say for sure.
I usually have this problem when I let the filament loaded into the extruder for a long time after a print. After 1 to 2 days it can be broken very easily. Sometimes it snaps without interfering with it at all. But I also have some rainbow pla with a really shiny surface and this one never broke this way
@@dasjulian3 that's interesting. I wonder if the smooth shiny finish doesnt form cracks as easily? This needs to be explored by CNC Kitchen...
@@HB-ps6rn I have always wondered if moisture is a factor as well. The thing that makes me think it might not be, is that after baking the filament at about 60C for several hours, it doesnt seem to prevent cracking. However maybe the damage is already done... its definitely is something that happens over time though because new spools don't seem to have a problem.
@@gusmartin6053 Interesting to hear. I've done a bit of reading on it and it seems that the hydrolytic reaction isn't reversible so baking it may dry it but not necessarily repair the broken polymer chains. From what I've read it could also be caused by photodegredation or oxidization. It would be a good experiment to put some PLA into some H2O2 or other oxidizing agent to see if it degrades in the same way.
Interesting results Angus. I've dried TPU with excellent results. I generally print it directly from the dryer like you did. If I can find before and after pics I'll tag you on twitter with the comparison. I've dried PLA at a lower temperature and had decent results as well but it didn't get near as soft as yours either. Thanks for sharing!
If you don't want to destroy the bottoms of the food dehydrator (3:24) you can also use a microwave lid instead. In my case the microwave lid from IKEA called Prickig just fits perfect! It has a diameter of 26cm, my food dehydrator has 25,6cm.
Another good tip for cheap filament drying is 'crystal kitty litter'. Its just silica gel desiccant, but much, MUCH cheaper than buying packets off eBay.
be careful with that shit though... It will suck up all moisture in the air, and once its full all excess moisture will build up around the bag. If you placed it right next to your filament, you filament will be even more gone
You can use 25kg bags of calcium salt for pools to dry bulk filaments, if you wanna go more expensive, lithium salts are more efficient. Table salt works too.
how about using rice? :p
@@St0RM33 rice is harder to dry and might get insects.
I use packets I find and two evadry that I can plug in and recharge. I recharge the packets in a food dehydrator.
Incidentally I went through troubleshooting my petg prints this week. They all seemed to delaminate and break very easily. I tried different temps, cooling etc. What worked was drying the filament in a dehydrator for about 7 hours. After that the parts are not brittle but more plyable and strong. Perfectly matches your results with the octopus leg breaking off. Great vid!
PETG suffers from hydrolysis if processed in the presence of moisture. Basically it means that the polymer chains will be broken as they chemically react with water at melt temperatures which lead to lower physical properties, so your results are perfectly normal.
(I work in industrial plastics)
Angus, as always, another great video. I look forward to all of your videos for their helpfulness. To the point, I was able to rescue a very brittle spool of PLA with my dehydrator. Here's how:
I have a temperature controlled Rosewill Food Dehydrator. Rather than sacrificing the trays, I found out a clear Better Homes & Gardens Round Cake Carrier fits the dehydrator perfectly. I drilled a 15mm hole in the top of the carrier for ventilation. The Rosewill keeps fairly accurate temps.
I had a spool of PLA that was so brittle it was impossible to use. Having nothing to lose, I put the spool in the dehydrator at 45c for 4-5 hours (per the PrintDry website). The unusable spool of PLA returned to a perfectly pliable spool that I was able to use through to the very end.
The brittle spool was stored in the open air. I live in Vegas, so you would not think humidity would be a problem. But since then, I am a firm believer in keeping my spools dry. Now I store all my spools in large tubs with desiccant. I haven't had a brittleness problem since.
time to wait for cnc kitchen to make a comment
not in the next 3 weeks ...
I commented about him drying his PETG for more consistent results after his most recent video exploring the effects part cooling has on overall print strength. He responded by saying "Yes, probably. But who dries his PETG all of the time?" which makes it seem like he probably doesn't bother with drying that much.
Hi Angus. I really enjoy your videos as they are well made and very informative. In the past I worked with a Markforged desktop printer. The machine is known for printing in nylon and allowing you to embed continuous fiber (glass, carbon or Kevlar) in the print. When you purchase the printer it comes with a Pelican brand watertight box that is connected to the print head with a tube. The filament comes sealed in a vacuum bag with desiccant pouch or two. The filament then lives in the Pelican box with the desiccant pouches and stays sealed in the tube till extrusion. The machine lays down a healthy purge line between prints unless it has been sitting for a while. Then the purge line gets really heavy. As far as strength of wet vs dry nylon. Wet nylon tends to be stronger than dry. In injection molding the nylon is dried so you can mold it then it is allowed to absorb moisture to gain strength. Some shops even place newly molded parts in a bag with some water to accelerate the process.
I bought a cheap one from Amazon (sold under multiple names, including Rosewill, Flexzion, Eastman Outdoors, etc.) that has a basic temperature control.
In fact, there's a company called PrintDry that sells the EXACT SAME unit for a lot more money; their main selling point is that they include custom trays instead of the plastic grates. I just used the same trick of cutting out the grates from all but one of the trays, and it works really well. If you really wanted the custom trays you could buy the dryer from Amazon and the custom trays from PrintDry and you'd save some money AND have the original food drying trays if you ever wanted them. :)
There's 3D printable tray extenders on Thingiverse for the Westinghouse model of dehydrator. But I'm sure Angus could model his own if he wanted to. :)
I got lucky with the cheap food dehydrator I bought, it didn't need the trays being snipped out, they were already designed to be taken out whilst keeping the cylinder shell intact.
It's definitely worth the investment for something with a proper variable temp control! Definitely impressed with the results either way!
I think the PLA snapping is related to moisture. I’ve left two roles if pla in a cabinet for a few months a while back, one in a bag with Silica gel, and one without. The one in the bag didn’t break, the one without the bag did
Thanks to your video, I used a food dehydrator to dry out some really bad PLA. The result: all but one reel revived perfectly; my oldest filament got better, but is still unusable due to bad layer adhesion. Thanks for saving almost all of my filament!
Great job, informative video. This makes nylon seem more encouraging! As you noticed, PC has a pretty insane bonding strength (unlike ABS), but like ABS it wants to pull off the bed from the thermal stresses. I use the textured build sheet on the Prusa with Magigoo PC (Prusa doesn't recommend putting anything on this sheet but there is no way around it here). For anything bigger than 5 inches or so I put the Prusa in a pop-up photo tent. I prefer PCMAX (now called Polymax PC), I haven't done pure PC on the Prusa. You would probably need an enclosure more often with pure PC just due to the higher print temperatures increasing the stress. Some settings: Bed at 110C, chamber temp around 38C. Fan off but you can use 10-15% for bridges and for autocooling with smaller parts. Perimeter width 2x nozzle diameter, 1.5x for outside perimeters, only print with 0.15mm layer height. Also I'll use makerbot's old "helper disks" to drop on any corners in the slicer to keep them down (0.3mm thick). Ref. Github user metacollin's PC settings, except use 0.15mm layer height: gist.github.com/metacollin/18ecb0a58fb475cfae86e0781bf51325
"Its difficult for me to quantify if the print is actually gonna be any stronger now, since i'm not CNC kitchen" HAHAHA
I print primarily in PLA, and despite incredible warping inside a food dehydrator, it works very well in a 3D pen, no so In a .4mm nozzle on my ender3 with a stock hotend. What I do is get a reasonably larger plastic Tupperware than the spools(about 180% the space the spools take up) and use a chemical dehydration agent(basically salt) and a cheese cloth full of rice(about 1kg). This has seriously improved my print quality and my modified ender3 pro is on par or better than a Prusia. It was about $600 for all the hardware(minus spools) and my drying agent can be picked up for about $20 including the Tupperware(I use a food safe 5gal bucket) at any hardware store. This solution is far better than a dehydrator as you’re not introducing heat. It takes about 7 days to renew a 1kg spool to brand new, and said spool will last roughly 10 days outside the Tupperware in the humid Midwest. For $20 invested($8 bucket, $7 dehydration agent, $5 rice, $2 plastic wrap for sealing) this solution is unbeatable.
Excellent. Bought myself a cheap dehydrator a couple of weeks ago just for drying PETG. Didn't know it was a "thing" ..... much better to be lucky than good!
We've had a wet spring in 2023 in the south of the US. My new roll of eSun white PLA sat on the printer for 3 weeks and started snapping like spaghetti. I have a dehydrator from back in the 90's with no thermostat but airflow is right at 115 degrees. Amazing how a $12 appliance kept all these years is back in service.
Always the shiz'ouk' Angus - TY for taking the time out with this stuff. I came home with a simple used food dehydrator over the summer, and just found my plug-in lamp adjustable lamp dimmer to make use of with it [the food dehydrator] as night, as... ...the default [single-setting ON/OFF switch] took things to the level of "a lil' to toasty" for my white Chromatica PLA. ;) Getting a cheap handheld IR thermometer will serve one well also with these extra cheap food dehydrators. Excellent and very empowering content as always - thank you for your time and effort you put forth.
I found an item I printed 3 years ago. It crumbled apart as if it was made of sugar.
Was it outside? I have 3D prints that old and they are fine.
@@Niloc1922 Same
What filament was it? Lol
Did you leave it in a really sunny spot? UV light could have had something to do with it
If it was PLA, that is to be expected. PLA is made from organic materials after all.
No real conclusion on PLA, and it's the most common material.
I found a difference personally after I got a PrintDry. My PLA filament was crackling and popping before I dried it and I got a better surface finish when dry.
@S A Maybe not for $140, but what about at $34? That's what I paid for a food dehydrator on Amazon and, after a "quick" converter print, was up and running.
@S A lol yeah, that's what I said. Even so, I guess it depends on the local climate.
@@ncurley999 In Germany you pay around 0.28€ for 1kW/h (and thats cheap). I would pay 140€ if it need less energy coz its better isolated and maybe better controlled by the system. After a year of constant usage of the dryer it doesnt make a huge difference if you pay 34 or 140... the energy is the worst cost.
I got back into 3d printing after about a 6 year break. Started printing with some PLA that i got when i got my first printer without doing anything to the filament. Worked perfectly
Angus I love your videos you’ve inspired me so much to 3D print so much stuff
A note on food dehydrators: you do not have to cut its original plates. Instead you could try to find a suitable size microwave oven lid. They come in various sizes and they ususally have a hole in the top, so they work really well to dry filament spools :)
Or you could always print a new Lid + Tray.
Anything but PLA should take the temperature just fine.
Found a clear bucket at a $2plus type shop, that fitted near perfectly and added a couple of holes at the top.
I even made a roll holder to feed the printer with warm filament. Was having trouble with some snapping and this helps soften the filament.
I have the temp controlled dryer and live in a high humidity environment. This thing has saved me so much filament. PLA & PETG especially.
About 2ish years back, I, for some reason, bought a half kilo roll for a 3d pen I've used maybe used twice. It's been sitting in the bag it came in a locker ever since. Can't wait to try and use it
You helped me out in the 3-D printing hobby so much and I love the shirt
Was very impressed with the change in PETG, great video must have taken ages!
Living in the low humidity of Alaska, and storing my filament rolls out of direct sunlight, (because we do have more than 16hrs of it for months), this also makes me feel better about how and where my PLA is stored.
I had a roll of PLA in the basement 4 years and then in attic for 2 more years, just took it out and put it over the radiator for 24 h, and got amazing reults.
Great video, I appreciate the effort. It'd be interesting for you to try desiccant as a followup on the PLA since heating seemed to mess it up.
When are you going to clean up that pile of garbage honey? It's my archive!
I am a mad hoarder 😂
I don't go into my wife's craft room and she's not allowed in my printing room ,Fixed !
Only 3d printing legends know
I'm in injection molding, Heavier Mats like policarb are usually dried at 250F/120C for at least 8 hours before we start a job. If we're not sure we'll let it go in the oven overnight.
You're not monitoring humidity in the dryer? We would do a thousand pounds at a time, and base our drying time off measured moisture content, not time.
@@otm646 moisture inside dryer doesn't mean moisture in filament tho. Assuming the humidity outside of the dryer isn't too much, temperature and time will dry your filament.
I use a portable room dehydrator and stick it in a small closet or sometimes a large cardboard box and leave it running set to minimum humidity for about five hours with the filament sitting on the ground next to it. This technique worked like a treat with my stringy petg and pla. The air gets to around 100F or about 38C by an hour in.
I've been drying PLA in the oven, using a thermometer to keep an eye on the *actual* temperature. It basically needs to be on the lowest setting, and even then it will still overshoot initially. So: turn the oven on, wait for the temperature to stabilize *below* the glass transition temp of your material. And keep an eye on it. Don't leave it on the spool! Separate it from the spool, place it on something flat! The material shrinks and will tighten up on the spool.
I have always printed PA straight from the dryer. Other filaments that I appreciate being printed straight from the dryer include: Igus J260, PC, and Ninjaflex
^^^yes^^^ ninjaflex is one that really does like to be dried first^^^
Angus, I print with pure PC from time to time. My experience is that it behaves similarly to nylon but the effects are not as noticable. When wet, PC prints will be more milky with less layer adhesion and overall strength. It will also be a bit more runny and therefore stringy.
I too do some printing with pure PC, and live in a very humid area. The real difference in my experience is strength and layer adhesion. The appearance of the print is not that greatly changed between wet and dry PC, but the layer adhesion is very greatly effected, with wet PC, even printed at 300+C having somewhat poor adhesion, and fresh/freshly dried PC having excellent to exceptional layer adhesion. I also make functional parts with PC and the hydrolysis that occurs in extruding wet PC (even only slightly wet) does effect the strength signifficantly. Wet printed PC is noteably brittle compared to dry. I also see worse problems in wet PETG than Angus's results and although it's not as hygroscopic as nylon I treat it almost the same way in order to get best results.
Hi Angus, that was a pretty nice test of the topic. I think one thing that would help for the issues you had drying PLA is a temperature controlled dehydrator. As you mentioned, the PLA was damaged by overheating, and conversely some materials might actually need higher temperatures. I've had very good results drying PLA that was causing massive stringing (Hatchbox wood PLA) and while not completely eliminated, drying turned a spool that was basically unprintable into one that gave good results. Principles for plastics drying are the same as in injection molding, though typically don't cause as much problem in extrusion for 3D printing since the visual quality of FFF printing normally can't reach the quality of molding. I want to do some more moisture testing at work, though it takes quite a bit of plastic to get a good test result (about 50 grams). I have done one test on a spool of ABS left out for months in ambient and moisture content went from 0.9% down to about 0.1% after drying, and made a good improvement in print quality. For molding, typical ABS recommended moisture level is around 0.02%.
Thankyou for this video, it really cleared things up for me! We have loads of old donated filament spools at our new Makerspace (here in Adelaide), nice to know we won't need to dehydrate most of them!
I find that drying is effective for Nylon and PETG. With Nylon the moisture issue is obvious - as seen (steam, bubbles, popping). For PETG it can at times be less obvious that there is a moisture issue. It can manifest itself in ways that look like there is a printer issue - from 'chalky' colouring to blobs and stringing to poor first layers and inter-layer adhesion. 10-12 hours in the dehydrator and everything 'magically' gets fixed. BTW - the PrintDry dehydrator is really excellent for this.
I see the same when using PETG. It strings a lot less and seems to print with fewer artifacts when dried. These days I store dried PETG rolls in vacuum sealed bags.
I use my oven to dry multiple roles of PLA all the time 1.75 mm @ 150 degrees F and never had an issue. Love the vids, keep it up!
How long do you keep them in the oven? I have about 30 spools that need dehydrating and don't want to do it in a food dehydrator..
i had a roll of pla that spent the most of its time in the south high humidity. after 5 years its printed wonderfully.
I also mentioned PLA to snap after the print if its a bit older or was exposed to moisture or normal environment without putting it into a bag or something. Seems to be normal. It stopped after i dried it 1h in the oven at 50°C.
I grab a roll of PLA out of the shed the other day that had been sitting open for 5years. I took the top layer off to get rid of most of the dust then made a quick filament sweeper. And it printed like magic
I had a roll of clear PLA that sat in an outdoor storage facility for 13 years in the heat and humidity of Dallas, TX...it printed perfectly.
Back up from the dust - Great video and information Muse
Useful video. I was having issues with an (old) filament spool I tried to use, and a web search told me filament expires in 2 years. I decided to do some research. My other spool was clearly bad for whatever reason, but others that were as old seem to be doing fine. Dunno.
The food dehydrator works for sure. I just bought a brand new roll of armadillo TPU. It came with one tiny little dry pack. When I put it on my printer it was spitting and popping and full of moisture. One overnight in my dehydrator and it was like butta
I had my PLA-rolls and printer in the same area as my washing-machine and my PLA started snapping off after just a few weeks. Now i store them in a plastic container with some silica-gel and they work just fine. So i guess moisture from my washing-machine was the issue here tho.
Love your videos, so keep up the good work. :)
PLA can crystalize over time which leads to the snapping. When it's heated it crystalizes as well. I also have some rolls from 2013 of 3mm filament (with dyes) that I've gotten bad print quality with on my fixer upper printer from 2012.
I do dry my filament. I have numerous comparison tests where I took PLA that was stringing a lot and dried it, and it does wonders. I have a dehydrator that has a temperature control, so it makes it easier. It makes a real big change for fiber filled PLAs. I don't print a lot in PETG (but IIRC, it doesn't really absorb moisture). PLA doesn't absorb much moisture, but I still have gotten better results out of drying it then not. No experience with any of the other materials you tried (though I should run my Taulman PCTPE through it). I also have a dry box that I run the filament out of, so that helps.
I will agree on the time. I have read or heard people drying filament for 12, 24, even 48 hours. I don't think I've run anything for longer then 8 hours, and that was because I forgot I had it running. Results were better then pre-dry, but never seen a real difference between 3-5 hours vs. 12/24 hours.
Found this as I have a roll of PLA that snaps as soon as try to straighten to put in the extruder - 2 hours only in the oven at about 60ºC, and now is bendy and does not snap 🤷♂️
Just used a 5 year old spool of Natural ABS a few days ago that I had recently dehydrated but never used and it was the best print I have ever had in ABS. I was testing the SKR V1.3 and Marlin 2.0 and due to 32bit controllers never pausing everything was the smoothest I have ever seen for 0.2mm layer height. I was floored.
You have to dry PLA at 50 C so it doesn't melt enough to stick together. My dehydrator has temperature settings on it and 125 F works pretty well
Unless or until you know for sure what temp you actually end up with (thermostats in these things can be a bit inaccurate), 45°C is just as good, but significantly safer. Some PLA+additive blends has glass transition as low as 50 C.
You can ofc do trial and error, and learn that way with consistent brands and batches, but if it's some rare or precious filament, or it's time sensitive, that margin can save the day.
My PLA definitely is negatively affected by humidity!! No question! I can hear it crackle going through the nozzle and it gets a bit more stringy when printed, with a bunch of zits on the print surface. The filament is also MUCH more brittle before printing!! (which seems antithetical that humidity would make it more brittle rather than mushy) I've improved it BOTH with "active drying" (I used a convection oven) AND using plenty of rechargeable desiccant over several days in a sealed dry box getting the humidity down to 10%.
Great write up mate, i retract my earlier statements at robowars! My issue with the pla was definitely the snapping off at the extruder.
You might have better chances with PLA by trying to (keep) dry with a dehumidifier rather than a dehydrator; the main reasons the two are different is that dehydrators usually depend on a flow of heated air to extricate moisture from food, whereas dehumidifiers instead *_cool_* air so that the moisture in it condenses into water (which is then discarded periodically, or fed into plumbing or a flower pot or whatever works for you). If you have a small storage room for your materials, keeping moisture-sensitive stuff in it with a dehumidifier is a fairly cheap operation. It can be done even more cheaply if you make use of a small cabinet and a Peltier dehumidifier (usually really small, not as efficient [i.e. take longer for the same effect], but perfectly silent and ridiculously energy-saving).
I found the same . I live in Queensland where it humid as hell and never had to dry anything, (abs and pla used). The rolls are only 2-3 years old but still work!!
I haven't had any issues with my PLA, either. Other than it sometimes snapping if left out for months. My PETG starts to print okay and then the stringing gets worse throughout each print. I've started keeping those in dry boxes and might get a cheap dehydrator now. Thanks, Angus!
I got loads lying around, must be around 5 years old by now, I used it now and it is not great but it is still work without breaking the filaments. It is very fragile, I just put it in the oven just an hour around 40-50C and filament strength it before I put it in my 3d printer. My 3d printer is Nereus from Tevo.
In my experience, drying PLA at 45C works wonders. I keep rechargable dessicant packs in a cabinet where I store my PLA and rotate those out every week or so to recharge them (they have a wall plug built into them to dry out the dessicant). It's worth noting that where I live, the summer air gets to about 50% humidity. In the winter it's more like 15%-18% so I don't worry about it as much. But PLA that's left out gets brittle and I have lots more issues with it than when I try it out ahead of time. Same with the PETG as Angus found here. Drying out PETG the day before I use it works wonders.
I was gonna buy a dehydrator, then i stumbled upon mom's old OLD OLD hair dryer, old enough to burn your hands if you keep the nozzle pointed at it too long. Had old filament, had to use it in a pinch, had nothing to lose, so i stuck the end in the hole, rotated it with a crank and put the hair dryer on high enough time to see the filament end go limp as it was sticking out of the hole.
There was a lot of snapple and crackle, but no cracks appeared on the filament so far.
Ever since, i have been heating my filament in the same way each time i print, regardless of age of the filament or quality and man oh man, results are smooth as butter.
No more blisters, no more cracked filament, no more snapping.
HOWEVER, there is on side effect that's not welcome. Each time i finish a run, i have to roll the filament back. Leaving it hanging either free in the air or inside a feeder tube, it will snap. So you do have to be weary of that.
This explains why some of the filament my brother gave me sucks.
hey there. long time lurker. i figured i would chime in. im a injection molding process tech RJG cert. generally speaking ....ABS/nylon/acrylic/PET/PBT/Polyurethane/polycarb need to be dried before extrusion or molding which in this case your extruding them. defects can vary from delamination. bubbling. brittle materials and many others depending on how your using the materials. good rule of thumb is to look at your MDS for each of those materials and they can tell you what temp and for how long and what % the moisture content should be for use.
Great insight Angus. I bought a food dehydrator last year, specifically for drying filament .... never needed to use it yet. But I do like to be prepared 👍
You are my legend and i will explain you why and dont think i want promote my chanel.... Because evrything start with you!
I was interesting about 3d printing but newer think to buy it i go on youtube where i find many your videos many your explanations so i decide to buy my first CR 10 s4 i was happy to trying but i must say i have many many problems with that printer... Many solutions i found by you i was totally beginer... You insoired me trying new materials my prints was so crapy long time so i buy ultimaker 3 and afcorse i buy a working horse.... From time i have it i buy also priusa because i see it on your videos and i see its work great.... I learned with you how to improve my prints how to use thinkercad haha i never forget so stuoid easy for beginers and later i start with fushion 360 (still busy with learning) you open my word to creativity eaven if im still for my self beginer... I try with timelapse i love it to look so one day i decide to make my ovn youtube channel whitch one is afcorse in begining and i dont care how many views i get... But you was my motivation from beginning and i want to thank you very much
Small videos like your can change people life at least is change my one!
Thanks for the vid, great info as always. I did my own testing last year with an ALDI dehydrator and had very similar results to you. I also live in Australia, so we would have similar environmental conditions. I came to the same conclusion that PLA, ABS & ASA do not need to be dried. Nyon absolutely needs to be dried and PETG can definitely benefit from drying. I found that TPU seemed to also benefit from drying and exhibited less stringing and a better print surface. I also just looked at an old spool of clear PLA and it also snaps easily and has hairline cracks in it.
I am not even joking, I started with a Cupcake CNC 3d printer and I have some 10 year old filament... I tried it and it worked surprisingly well! The prints looked a bit wiggly and weird but it worked! Abs but no dehydrations
I want to see Angus's channel surpass one million subscribers. Going for gold mate.
I used to work in a plastics plant where we made PP closures and PET bottles. The PP went straight from the hopper to the extruder, but the PET we had material dryers that we would wait at least 4 hours on before we started making bottles.
The reason fo it is that PET is very susceptible to moisture and the plastic would cloud badly (in our transparent bottle) and delaminate even though it was injection molded.
The clouding was very apparent in our particular bottles because they were stretch blow molded which increased strength. Heck , even our air compressors had systems in place to make sure the air we blew the bottles with was as dry as possible
i just got an old ender3 printer with a spool of black Geeetech PLA Filament. The spool was from 2018 (now its 2024). The spool was unpacked and printed perfect!
I’ve been using same dehydrator since over 2 years now and it works great for me. I heat PLA at 45c if I am keeping it overnight and at 50c if I am heating it for few hours. The problem I observed with PLA and PETG is after drying as it is coming back to room temperature, it becomes more absorbent and hence, I put it in a closed box with a lot of silica gel first and then use it for printing once it’s back to room temperature. But yes this dehydrator consumes loads of electricity
Thank you CHAMPION! I am beginner, and love you videos.
I've had improvement with petg and pla drying. Nylon and tpu are required. I dry everything from new and keep it all in a dessicant box with 4 spool holders in it. Works great! You definitely need a temp controlled dehydrator though (I paid $35 for mine)
Try drying your PLA in the refrigerator, using DRY air instead of HOT air. Just make sure you place it in a sealed bag immediately after removing from the fridge, until it gets back to ambient temperature. Also works by placing the spool next to an air conditioner's cold air output, tested with ABS and it became much less brittle.
I can't wait when we start to print clothe
You really need a temperature controlled dehydrator to get the best results. But I'll agree that drying PLA and ABS are a waste of electricity. I live in a temperate rainforest environment with extremely high ambient humidity, and my moisture sensitive filaments get stored in a dessicant filled dry box. Basically everything but ABS and PLA go in there. The most moisture sensitive filament I've used is Ultem 1010. The extremely high print temperature (close to or over 400C) means that even small amounts of residual moisture become steam, and even at
Hi Angus...at first..thanks for all the good videos. Keep up the good work :) ... to the topic.... if you don´t want to spend money on a filament dryer you can put the filament in your oven at 60-70 degrees celcius for around half an hour. Does a pretty good job in my experience.
Congratulations on 500K! Also, great video.
Interesting results. I think you must live in a dryer climate than I do.
I always place my opened rolls of filament in ziplock bags with desiccant.
My experience in my climate:
PLA: Will get brittle if left out for a couple of weeks.
PETG: Will extrude stringy with lots of blobs after a couple of weeks in the open.
I now print straight from a filament dryer and life is better :-)
I have 7 year old Octave brand ABS and it still prints fine on my Afinia H479. Stored in a Sterilite storage container with a loose fitting lid. Not airtight by any stretch. So I agree and see the same results with ABS.
I have the same HK ABS roll, the brow one.
For PC you should try 110degC on the bed, if it can maintain this temp. If it still doesn't stick, then either up the bed temp to 120degC, again if it can be maintained, or use a draft shield and a brim. Also, try it on the prusa.
I have good luck with PC using 110c bed and PVA glue on glass. Larger prints are still a warping hazzard, but stuff the size of Angus's test blocks is easy and reliable. I have tried CA glue slurry as well, and though the print had good bed adhesion, i ruined a glass so I won't bother doing that again unless I need a large functional PC part.
Excellent work! This sums up a lot of useful info!
I have only printed with PC once, and I had to print at 280°C because that is the maximum my printer could handle. I only had a sample which I manually wrapped around a small spool. This proved to be a terrible idea because the filament seemed to have absorbed a lot of my sweat during this wrapping operation, and it foamed and bubbled like crazy. The print looked horrible and was unusable. I then put the filament in a heated air oven at about 100°C for several hours, and this made a huge difference. The extrusions where crystal clear and the print was perfect. From your test it seems PC won't absorb moisture as easily from the air and I also suspect the humidity to stay relatively low where you have stored your filament. If you would have done your water soaking test with PC, it would have probably been pretty dramatic.
About the PLA cracking: I also experience this, especially if I unload filament from a direct drive extruder. The tiny cuts from the extruder gear will often evolve into a crack and the filament breaking at those places. This seems to be less of an issue after drying the filament (taking care to stay well below 60°C so that the filament doesn't get ruined as in your test), which seems to make it somewhat less brittle.
Yes, I print mainly PETG and can confirm that wet PETG is more brittle and also strings and blobs more. However, be careful when drying PETG. I've had spools of PETG fuse into solid blocks at the same temperature at which I dry PLA. PETG is just dying to fuse with itself at high temperatures.
I'm still using up some old MakerBot PLA filament from back in 2012, no problem. It has gotten very brittle, but prints just fine, the prusa MMU2S does tend to break it at the intake on a regular basis.
I liked the video for two reasons - First I duscussed the issue with a family member just recently, and secondly you can present some real life experience, even if most people don't store filaments in buckets with water. :-D I'd say the conclusion is still, that keeping it dry is recommendable, and I can't agree on the dehydrator in general, because it consumes power, where silicagel only needs to be baked a few times a year, depending on the container you store your filament in. After all 3D-printers are not exactly friendly to the environment, so every little consideration can have an impact.
Disappointed in the PLA test. PLA is generally dried at 40 to 45 c. You didn't even try with PLA you just gave up when the machine melted it, it's one of the most used filaments out there!
Very useful. Thanks. I got a dryer in Freegle (a site like Freecycle). People buy them and then find they don't use them and will often be glad to give them away. Incidentally, sometimes crap filament has its uses. I got some really cheap clear PETG and used it for lampshades with a 0.6 nozzle. It pops and is very inconsistent, but in that application looks great. Now on the 4th roll of the stuff.
HIPS is under rated, i have yet to find a filament that can provide such an amazing surface finish as HIPS,
I know right? Everybody tries to use it as a dissolving support and forgets it can make functional parts.
@@sethkrumm3302 Functional until a rain.
@@y.z.6517 It dissolves in limonene.... I really hope it's not raining limonene where you live lol
Exactly my findings. I dont use PC but do use ABS, PETG and Nylon. Nylon in dehydrator with hole in side works perfect.
No need to dry ABS at all. Very true.
👍
And please ignore Phillip people. I think he has issues. 🤪
@@EngineeringTechnikcom I think their ABS plus is maybe different to normal ABS my friend.
No need to swear. Just do some research instead and you will see why.
So yeah. NORMAL ABS is fine.
@@EngineeringTechnikcom Wrong. And you sound like a toss. Only little toy is the one up your rear end. Would love to meet up.
Sorry....we live in Stralia mate..not Singapore. Idiot.
@@EngineeringTechnikcom haha. More evidence you are an idiot. Thank you for confirming.
Sorry clown. No excess moisture. Deal with it. Its not Nylon..its not PETG...It is ABS. Go play with your overpriced printer that you dont even own. Bahahahaha
@@EngineeringTechnikcom 4 years? Are you slow??
Bahahaha. Why so long?
Bahahaha
@@EngineeringTechnikcom Dude...You are a concreter... Bahaha
Finding life in an ancient material; your shirt is quite fitting.
I would say it's worth paying the extra for a dehydrator with temperature control, typically these won't be much more but give you a much greater range of control over time/temp settings. Mine works from 30c - 90c and having a built in timer is a really nice feature if you do ever want to use it for its normal (food based) purpose!
Wow, congrats on 500k subscribers!
Well done Angus - thanks!
Very good vid, and it points the topic of polycarbonate which you should definitetly do another video about. It is an incredible material and not that hard to print but there are a few key tricks to it.
1) The marketing force is strong with this one. Real polycarbonate is getting hard to find. With the aim to make it more printable most "polycarbonate" spools are not polycarbonate but some stinky mystery goo (most known example Priline PC on amazon). Anything marketed with extrusion temperatures below 270°C is a blend even if it's not mentioned on the box. Print settings with these filaments are guessing games, so are their physical properties, the result is probably something between ABS and PETG. We are left with two options: even cheaper no name brands from china or the premium polymaker pc, one I have recently found is Gizmodorks PC.
2) Adhesion: There are many many myths and recomendations out there, from Super Glue to ULTEM sheets, but I have found only two things that work: The Purple Glue Stick on Glass (Your mileage with other brands may vary, I also tried the yellow Uhu brand which didn´t work at all. ) and HEAT HEAT HEAT. If your Bed can´t do >120°C don´t bother. It won´t stick. But when it does it DOES. I just ripped out a chuck of glass from my bed the other day trying to get a print off. Bed 135°C, Nozzle First Layer 320°C then 285, First Layer Height: 0.2, 40mm/s and a good layer of purple glue stick on glass. Large brims are also a good idea.
3) A heated chamber helps a lot, even if its just heated by the bed to around 50°C.
4) Moisture: It is not as bad as Nylon but it does take up humidity. Due to the high printing temperatures, the crackling moisture bubbles are very obvious if the filament needs drying.
I have been printing on 2014 filament for a few months. I got it with 2 Printrbot Plus Metals and am having no problems with it. It's mostly PLA. I have not dried it and it was stored in a basement without any protection from moisture.
I just bought a dehydrator myself. It works.. I`ve had a hard time printing wet ish PETG and no success with non-dried nylon. once dried, The PETG prints perfect, and the nylon well,.. turns out the printer is the problem....
Drying some pla also made it less brittle and bubbly.. definately a must do for older PLA.
I used the Printdry temperatures as a guide, and so far so good (except for nylon. stupid nylon. and printer!)
I use a larger oven-style dehydrator with temperature control, and have found it helps a lot with PLA and PETG. Not a ton of difference in quality, but better surfaces and way less smell.