Latency tests have been re-uploaded using licensed version of Simhub and public build of Simpro manager. Click here - th-cam.com/video/zY2XQuIJFkM/w-d-xo.html
I’ve never seen your videos before, this is the first one for me. I have to say that I am genuinely amazed by the amount of work you put into it. For such a quality material you deserve much more views and subscribers. I’ll definitely check your other videos. Keep up the good work.
@@vadympluzhnyk5563 when I first found this channel I was impressed by the content quality and shocked by the low sub count. I’m glad that the count is increasing.
I have bought these based on this and another review, I only race on ams2 using simagic software. What I have found is the vibration is inconsistent. You may setup thinking that's the right strength and know the feel. Then the feeling can alter significantly feeling much less or more intense even feeling like the frequency has changed. I suspect it depends where the motor is relative to the commutator and brush given it's a normal DC brush motor being fed an AC signal The higher the frequency the more inconsistent it is. It's not a deal breaker but is a limitation of the motor style haptic. I have found keeping 30hz and below helps along with optimisation of the strength. I use slip, abs, wheel, spin and traction control. Still great for such a cheap item but I suspect this is the main difference between these and the more expensive ones. Just a little surprised it's not mentioned in the reviews.
I’m working on a video comparing both haptics. And you’re right. The vibrations are inconsistent. I prefer using simhub as it has proven to be more consistent with less latency. In case you haven’t watched that, it’s worth a watch.
Fantastic work. Hopefully simagic send you a couple HPRs next for your efforts, and then you could make a video comparing the two if you were so inclined.
I am new to Sim racing and find your videos very helpful for making an informed decision. I'm torn between going with the full Simagic Ecosystem - the P1000i pedals with the haptics and hydraulics (I like the ease of assembly), or the VNM Lite or Sprint pedals and add the haptics?
I’d say go full Simagic (base and pedals) as it helps to play arcade games (fh series, snowrunner, crew series) with proper ffb just in case you want to play it. If arcade games is not something that interests you, Sprints is a great set of pedals too. I use P1000 and Sprint on both of my rigs. With Sprint, you need a custom bracket for haptics.
I don’t think there would a performance improvement. I use both on a regular basis and find both equally good. No significant advantage has been found on one over the other.
Looking at this and your recent update, I think a mix of the P-HPR Neo for maybe throttle and clutch, and the regular P-HPR for the Brake could be a good mix for experience and value. ABS system activation and brake lock up feel more like a hammering in the hydraulics that push back against your foot. And feeling clutch engagement is closer to feeling the plates grind against each other until sync occurs.
@@darthsnape I'm currently racing at a desk on a wheel stand so pedal haptics are probably the way I'll go for now. Getting something similar to a slip angle kit to use in combination with this would help isolate specific feedback sources. I'm newer to racing, and still learning how to feel understeer so I'm trying to find how best to improve my awareness
Nice review. Interesting to see, you can now put more than one effekt to a haptic motor in simpro. Will this be possible with the older hatic reactors?
Liked the effort you put into the review but just to confirm, did you do the tests with a NON LICENSCED version of the software which is seen in the video? Effects like gearshifts can vary in the response they produce, potentially from the telemetry values generated from different cars or sims. So possibly not always identical based on the settings applied. We can see this with spectrum analysis when monitoriing the audio generated. These units are simple to install and enjoy while also being very affordable. So a great way to experience tactile but also worth mentioning that much better is also possible with more advanced effects and more capable hardware.
I used the free version of Simhub which has a frequency range of 0-100ms. I didn’t feel like I needed more than that, so I didn’t. And absolutely, my testing method was merely an approximation at best.
@@darthsnape hey, i think you misunderstood that one. simhub free version is limited to 10Hz of data update, which is fine for dashes on screen, but for haptic feedback, that means that the minimum latency will be 100ms instead of 15-16ms which explains the latency.
Hi, like I mentioned in the video, I haven’t tested the HPRs so I can’t comment on a direct comparison. But based on the available data from a physics point of view, LRA outperforms ERM almost every time.
When i upgrade towards the end of year, i will be installing asetek invicta pedals into my rig, i'm also going to install one of these haptic motors on the brake, just 1. But i'm really on the fence if i should go for the faster red ones or these neo's. I would just need it for abs and wheel lock feeling. Let's put it this way, with your research, do you think there would be a tangible improvement to go with the expensive ones over the neo's? Or is the difference not worth the price? I assume with rhe combo of haptic feedback and hydraulic pedals, there not much more i can do to increase feeling, well apart from simucube's active pedals, but i dont wanna spend that kind of money either.
I haven't tested the HPRs, but given my research, LRA motor will be better. Every. Single. Time. I'd suggest you go for OG HPRs for a much more quicker response.
So when it fomes to simpro, both neo and The older version of P-HPR's have the same settings or are there any differences like one can be setup to viberate when locking up and The other dont? Im considering on buying one or two motors but dont know wich should I pick
The new version of Simpro will allow all 8 settings (ABS, TC, lockup, slip, etc) to be enabled on all the motors simultaneously. I can have the clutch bite point vibrate on all 3 pedals. Or only on throttle (not sure why someone would do that, but it’s possible).
@christianfriedrichs You have to get a control box from Simagic where all three would be connected, and the control box would be connected to PC. And depending on the pedal you are planning to mount these to, you would need a specific bracket, which maybe you can get from a third party or etsy perhaps.
I thought so too, but it has gotten better with a stable firmware. And if you decide to use Simhub, it’s just better than Simpro. You can check the latency test video between a public build of simpro and licensed simhub.
@1999yumnam I have 3 at the moment. And my wife has 1. Personal rig has Simagic Alpha U, GT Neo, GT1-R rim, Heusinkveld Sprint, VNM handbrake and shifter mounted on Nextlevelracing GT track. Then there’s the aluminium 4080 rig that is showed in the video which is used for test purposes with Asetek La prima wheelbase, Simagic P1000 pedals, and Thrustmaster TH8A shifter. These components gets swapped every few month or two. Then the third one has Simagic Alpha mini and VNM lite pedals. I’m currently looking for a good seq shifter. It’s not quite finished yet.
Hi, thanks for this video. But you use unlicensed simhub which works at 10 Hz refresh rate instead of 60 Hz for the licensed one. So, unfortunately because you have surely past quite some times to do them, but your tests are mostly irrelevant as the latency is 6 times worse with the simhub's version that you use.
Unlicensed version allowed the frequency to be varied from 10hz to 50, no problem. You can give it a try yourself. I tested it multiple times and 10hz felt way different than 37hz which I used as shown in the video. What you might be getting confused with is 10fps instead of 10hz. The 10fps lock is for arduino, and overlays. You can't make a motor vibrate at 60fps. Frequency is measured in hertz, not fps. But just to be sure, I'll retest it using a paid version.
@@darthsnapeYou confuse frequency setting of the motors, and the frequency refresh rate of the telemetry. As stated on the simhub's webpage, the free version allow only 10 Hz telemetry refresh rate, independently of the frequency you set to the motors. So, to be clear, the free version read the telemetry from the game only 10 times per second, instead of 60 times per second for the paid version. Hence the huge latency difference
@@darthsnape I confirm (as the simhub author) that running on the free version will grab telemetry at 10hz so you have from 0 to 100ms latency depending if the shifting is triggered at the beginning or at the end of the 100ms interval. This interval is reduced to 16ms (60hz acquisition) on the licensed version
@@haagelx Yikes. That sucks. Since I bought the software shortly after releasing this video, I'll retest and upload the results again. I believe the very first public update dropped a few days back. I'll wait for maybe a couple more updates and post the updates.
earned a sub with this one, you’ve managed to make the science of these things so easily digestible that i wanted to keep reading more on how it works. keep up the fantastic work! 🫡
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Latency tests have been re-uploaded using licensed version of Simhub and public build of Simpro manager. Click here - th-cam.com/video/zY2XQuIJFkM/w-d-xo.html
I’ve never seen your videos before, this is the first one for me. I have to say that I am genuinely amazed by the amount of work you put into it. For such a quality material you deserve much more views and subscribers. I’ll definitely check your other videos. Keep up the good work.
I’m glad you enjoyed the video!
Thank you.
@@vadympluzhnyk5563 when I first found this channel I was impressed by the content quality and shocked by the low sub count. I’m glad that the count is increasing.
Yes, hes very impressive isn't he.
You deserve a good following which I'm sure you'll get! Excellent video
Thank you! Much appreciated.
Give this man some P-HPRs! Would love to see a comparison between them
I might have something similar in stock for you 😄
I have bought these based on this and another review, I only race on ams2 using simagic software. What I have found is the vibration is inconsistent. You may setup thinking that's the right strength and know the feel. Then the feeling can alter significantly feeling much less or more intense even feeling like the frequency has changed. I suspect it depends where the motor is relative to the commutator and brush given it's a normal DC brush motor being fed an AC signal The higher the frequency the more inconsistent it is. It's not a deal breaker but is a limitation of the motor style haptic. I have found keeping 30hz and below helps along with optimisation of the strength. I use slip, abs, wheel, spin and traction control. Still great for such a cheap item but I suspect this is the main difference between these and the more expensive ones. Just a little surprised it's not mentioned in the reviews.
I’m working on a video comparing both haptics. And you’re right. The vibrations are inconsistent. I prefer using simhub as it has proven to be more consistent with less latency. In case you haven’t watched that, it’s worth a watch.
Man I’ve never seen anyone go in-depth as this. Subbed.
Thanks Luke!
Fantastic work. Hopefully simagic send you a couple HPRs next for your efforts, and then you could make a video comparing the two if you were so inclined.
Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed the video! I’ll try to get my hands on HPRs.
Hi, u are a good Video maker ^^ nice work
Thank you!
I'm also new to your channel, and very impressed. Well done, and May the Downforce be with You.
Thank you very much for the kind words!
I am new to Sim racing and find your videos very helpful for making an informed decision. I'm torn between going with the full Simagic Ecosystem - the P1000i pedals with the haptics and hydraulics (I like the ease of assembly), or the VNM Lite or Sprint pedals and add the haptics?
I’d say go full Simagic (base and pedals) as it helps to play arcade games (fh series, snowrunner, crew series) with proper ffb just in case you want to play it.
If arcade games is not something that interests you, Sprints is a great set of pedals too. I use P1000 and Sprint on both of my rigs. With Sprint, you need a custom bracket for haptics.
@@darthsnapeI’m not interested in arcade, so the Sprints might be the better choice. Would you use Simagic haptics or the rumble motors from Sim 3D?
Is there a noticeable performance improvement with a sprints? Are they more precise? I do like the inverted P1000i model.
@Abeynmrl I haven’t tried Sim3D, so I can’t speak about that, but Simagic haptics are good. 👍🏼
I don’t think there would a performance improvement. I use both on a regular basis and find both equally good. No significant advantage has been found on one over the other.
Looking at this and your recent update, I think a mix of the P-HPR Neo for maybe throttle and clutch, and the regular P-HPR for the Brake could be a good mix for experience and value. ABS system activation and brake lock up feel more like a hammering in the hydraulics that push back against your foot. And feeling clutch engagement is closer to feeling the plates grind against each other until sync occurs.
Mixing both seems like a great idea. Using LRA for brake makes more sense as opposed to ERM.
@@darthsnape I'm currently racing at a desk on a wheel stand so pedal haptics are probably the way I'll go for now. Getting something similar to a slip angle kit to use in combination with this would help isolate specific feedback sources.
I'm newer to racing, and still learning how to feel understeer so I'm trying to find how best to improve my awareness
@kuroshine Try to gather as much data as possible from wheel and haptics, It’ll get easier.
Proper video. Can I have feedback on the brake on cars with no ABS? For example, when I lock the wheels, do the P-HPR vibrates or something like that?
Yessir. They do provide slip and lockup quite accurately, especially on Rally cars.
Fantastic and in depth review! After the physics lesson I just might have to call you Professor Snape now hahaha
Turn to page 394…
@@darthsnape 😂😂
Nice review. Interesting to see, you can now put more than one effekt to a haptic motor in simpro. Will this be possible with the older hatic reactors?
I believe a new Simpro version will allow to enable multiple frequencies.
Convex shape reduces friction by rolling under your feet as you press it or release it. I found them as much better than flat ones.
Same. My preference is convex shaped ones too. They’re…better?
@@darthsnapeConvex faces are more comfortable and better for me.
Liked the effort you put into the review but just to confirm, did you do the tests with a NON LICENSCED version of the software which is seen in the video?
Effects like gearshifts can vary in the response they produce, potentially from the telemetry values generated from different cars or sims. So possibly not always identical based on the settings applied. We can see this with spectrum analysis when monitoriing the audio generated.
These units are simple to install and enjoy while also being very affordable. So a great way to experience tactile but also worth mentioning that much better is also possible with more advanced effects and more capable hardware.
I used the free version of Simhub which has a frequency range of 0-100ms. I didn’t feel like I needed more than that, so I didn’t.
And absolutely, my testing method was merely an approximation at best.
@@darthsnape hey, i think you misunderstood that one. simhub free version is limited to 10Hz of data update, which is fine for dashes on screen, but for haptic feedback, that means that the minimum latency will be 100ms instead of 15-16ms which explains the latency.
Yeah I misjudged that. I’ll upload a retest soon.
Hi, how would you compare this SIMAGIC P-HPR Neo with the original linear SIMAGIC P-HPR? Thanks!
Hi, like I mentioned in the video, I haven’t tested the HPRs so I can’t comment on a direct comparison. But based on the available data from a physics point of view, LRA outperforms ERM almost every time.
Can you mix P-HPR with P-HPR Neo?
I don’t see why not. I’ll still check with Simagic and update here if that isn’t the case.
I think i will get this for my clutch
Great video
Thanks!
When i upgrade towards the end of year, i will be installing asetek invicta pedals into my rig, i'm also going to install one of these haptic motors on the brake, just 1. But i'm really on the fence if i should go for the faster red ones or these neo's. I would just need it for abs and wheel lock feeling. Let's put it this way, with your research, do you think there would be a tangible improvement to go with the expensive ones over the neo's? Or is the difference not worth the price? I assume with rhe combo of haptic feedback and hydraulic pedals, there not much more i can do to increase feeling, well apart from simucube's active pedals, but i dont wanna spend that kind of money either.
I haven't tested the HPRs, but given my research, LRA motor will be better. Every. Single. Time. I'd suggest you go for OG HPRs for a much more quicker response.
@@darthsnape interesting, well seems like i need to do more research since i was leaning towards the neo's.
Absolutely. Neo’s are great if you are on a budget. Otherwise, buy once cry once!
So when it fomes to simpro, both neo and The older version of P-HPR's have the same settings or are there any differences like one can be setup to viberate when locking up and The other dont? Im considering on buying one or two motors but dont know wich should I pick
The new version of Simpro will allow all 8 settings (ABS, TC, lockup, slip, etc) to be enabled on all the motors simultaneously. I can have the clutch bite point vibrate on all 3 pedals. Or only on throttle (not sure why someone would do that, but it’s possible).
Does it need the power supply?
It does, yes.
excellent perspective and review on this product. I've been waiting for your opinion on them.
Thank you very much! I hope the wait was worth it 😄
Awesome video!
Can I use them with other paddles?
Absolutely you can on any pedals.
@@darthsnapehow do you connect them though?
@christianfriedrichs You have to get a control box from Simagic where all three would be connected, and the control box would be connected to PC. And depending on the pedal you are planning to mount these to, you would need a specific bracket, which maybe you can get from a third party or etsy perhaps.
Lovely video ... are you on the vrh discord by anychance mate ?
Thanks man. And no, I’m not on the server.
So is the hpr neo better than nothing at all? On a budget
I thought so too, but it has gotten better with a stable firmware. And if you decide to use Simhub, it’s just better than Simpro. You can check the latency test video between a public build of simpro and licensed simhub.
Great video mate! Awesome to see that simagic let you get your hands on some stuff early for review purposes!! You do a great job!
Much appreciated!
I would put the HPR on my brake. And these neo on Throttle and clutch.
Hey, That’s actually quite smart. You’d save a few bucks.
Love it when you get technical. You crazy sob. Subbed!
Thank you🙂↕️
this is a beta of simpro right?
Yep. These changes will be coming to public version soon.
hey can you make a video on moza r12 ffb3.0 plss
Since I’m not in direct contact with Moza, it would be a hard. Unless VRH is willing to lend a helping hand?
new sub!
Thanks for subbing!
One of the best reviewers for sim racing gear by far.
I love the technical details, very well done sir.
Thank you very much!
Rig setup?
@1999yumnam I have 3 at the moment. And my wife has 1.
Personal rig has Simagic Alpha U, GT Neo, GT1-R rim, Heusinkveld Sprint, VNM handbrake and shifter mounted on Nextlevelracing GT track.
Then there’s the aluminium 4080 rig that is showed in the video which is used for test purposes with Asetek La prima wheelbase, Simagic P1000 pedals, and Thrustmaster TH8A shifter. These components gets swapped every few month or two.
Then the third one has Simagic Alpha mini and VNM lite pedals. I’m currently looking for a good seq shifter. It’s not quite finished yet.
@@darthsnape You have a sim rig and a WIFE? Now that's called flexing
@@parthivroy817 Haha 😆 Thanks man
Hi, thanks for this video. But you use unlicensed simhub which works at 10 Hz refresh rate instead of 60 Hz for the licensed one. So, unfortunately because you have surely past quite some times to do them, but your tests are mostly irrelevant as the latency is 6 times worse with the simhub's version that you use.
Unlicensed version allowed the frequency to be varied from 10hz to 50, no problem. You can give it a try yourself. I tested it multiple times and 10hz felt way different than 37hz which I used as shown in the video.
What you might be getting confused with is 10fps instead of 10hz. The 10fps lock is for arduino, and overlays. You can't make a motor vibrate at 60fps. Frequency is measured in hertz, not fps.
But just to be sure, I'll retest it using a paid version.
@@darthsnapeYou confuse frequency setting of the motors, and the frequency refresh rate of the telemetry. As stated on the simhub's webpage, the free version allow only 10 Hz telemetry refresh rate, independently of the frequency you set to the motors. So, to be clear, the free version read the telemetry from the game only 10 times per second, instead of 60 times per second for the paid version. Hence the huge latency difference
@@darthsnape
I confirm (as the simhub author) that running on the free version will grab telemetry at 10hz so you have from 0 to 100ms latency depending if the shifting is triggered at the beginning or at the end of the 100ms interval. This interval is reduced to 16ms (60hz acquisition) on the licensed version
@@haagelx Yikes. That sucks. Since I bought the software shortly after releasing this video, I'll retest and upload the results again. I believe the very first public update dropped a few days back. I'll wait for maybe a couple more updates and post the updates.
@@zegreatclan Hello there 👋🏼I'll retest and compare these results, in a future video.
At first I thought they upgraded pedal haptics. Unfortunately this is a serious downgrade.
Yeah but cheap
@@tkdmp5698 I am not so rich as buying cheap products. It is the same as throwing away money.
@@mkatakm considering each one is $16 you can’t expect that much
@@moist941 I didn't say otherwise. Just $16 is too high a price for garbage.
Exciters are cheaper again, yet probably twice this in terms of haptics and has no delay
Better off with exciters/transducers than these motors. Probably cheaper too
Interesting. I might need to look at some exciters/transducers🤔
Do you have any recommendations?
earned a sub with this one, you’ve managed to make the science of these things so easily digestible that i wanted to keep reading more on how it works. keep up the fantastic work! 🫡
Thank you for the sub and kind comment fellow science enthusiast. 🗿