Using PETG to Support PLA on Bambu X1 Carbon
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
- A less expensive alternative to PLA support material or dissolvable support.
Llama: www.thingiverse.com/thing:455...
Printer: Bambu X1 Carbon
Slicer: Bambu Studio
Filaments: Sunlu PLA+ White, Hatchbox PETG True Orange
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I have heard about this for a year now and never tried it. Watched your video to refresh my memory on the progress. I printed something in PETG and used PLA for the interface. OMG! It came out so smooth!! Thanks for the video keep it up.
Right?! Glad it helped. Yeah, I used this technique in my most recent video to make some parts for a rubber band gun. Just for gits and shiggles, I tried making those parts using supports without a PETG interface, and there was no way they were gonna work. But the parts made with the PETG interface were perfect.
If you explicitly choose your model material for Support/raft Base, then it will eliminate the layers of interface material mixed into your supports. Leaving the material for Support/raft Base as "Default" will allow interface material to be used for building your support base, which can cause weakness and may allow supports to break. Just a handy tip.
Thank you! I was experiencing weaknesses and this was the Tip!
Wonderful tutorial and I will be using what you have shown. For the longest I thought I had to live with the poor quality of PLA over hangs. I really appreciate what you have done.
It also works the other way around. Using PLA as a support for PETG. That is how I usually use the materials.
Indeed it does.
I've been playing with doing this since ModBot made a similar video on an IDEX printer, and it can be great. BUT, when the geometry gets more curvature, the PETG and PLA bonding issues start to show.
The flat surfaces are the best case scenario. More organic models will start to experience failures as the support and interface layers develop inconsistencies.
Then there is the clogging. Temperature differences of the nozzle from PETG and PLA will start clogging the nozzle. But I believe your high purge values really help with this. Thanks for that, I will use that in the future. One other thing I prefer, is to remove the purge tower. I had a few failures when the purge tower failed and got dragged over to the model.
Curved geometry should be better with tree PETG support then?
@boehserenkel The problem is that the PETG doesn't stick to PLA and vice versa. So, the general rule of thumb would be to minimize the layers of different material, that way, there are fewer chances to fail. So, a flat surface is supported with only 1 material change. But with curvature, that number of different materials goes up a lot, increasing the chance of one of the layers failing to adhere.
On suggestion for printing models with lots of curvature would be do the entire support structure and interface layer in one material and the model in another. That way, the support is only sticking to the same material and the same with the model. However, PLA & PETG have significant differences in temperature requirements. You'll have to pick a comprised bed and nozzle temp for both. Constantly changing temperatures will likely lead to issues.
Bambu needs to build 2 extruder printer, like Prusa.
@@TheBlackDove yes yes yesssssss
I’ve only had my printer for 3 days now, and I am already about to send it back to switch to Prusa. I’ve been struggling to get this method to work but every damn time I get a clog. I even tried setting the purge up to 900 and still doesn’t help.
Great video! But the music doesn't add anything and is, frankly, annoying and distracting...
Agreed as I cant focus on what he is saying unfortunately. Laurie NZ. 😊
When you watch at 2x it's not that bad lol
Yup!
The bamboo support material presets will not flush into object, infill or object support so what I recommend is using that preset, but switching all the values to your PETG settings. Then you have a support PETG preset that will not flush into infill or support.
Great video. Thank you for educating me.
Thank you for the great tutorial!
Thank you! going to try this today
Wow nearly half a meter of flushing was surprising. But being able to just print a few layers of petg is great
I'm testing it right now without doing a purge tower wasting so much filament, I just have it set to only print PETG on the interface layers, and in theory, it'll go and just purge the nozzle and come right back
Thanks for making this video. My question is why is there the odd line of petg part way up on some supports when there is clearly just more support on top of it? I've been printing a piece where it kept doing this and my supports kept coming apart in those areas
I'm with you. I wish it wouldn't do that. You might try specifying which material/AMS slot to use for Support/raft base, instead if leaving it default. Just know that if it works and causes the support base to be all the same material, it can cause it to produce a lot more waste if you don't have any of that material on the same layer in the model.
I want to know how did you stop the layer adhesion issues at the interface layer?
Because they are different temperatures, my model was cracking at the interface layer
Many thanks for this great video!...Constructive criticism if I may?....Focus! The detail on the background cabinet is at the focal length.
The option "Flush into object's infill" is a good option to save on poop and to further save on filament blending artifacts.
What if you are printing something in PETG and want to use PLA as the interface boundary? Will the results be the same?
Great tip thank you
I've done this many times but I have an issue with strength vs single filament print. My flushing volume is set to 500 and I can literally snap PLA+ in half easily while with single-filament print it's impossible to snap. Same issue when I print using PVA as support.
so i have an issue with my high flush volume. the tool head has to move to actually throw it down the chute. but it just does the entire flush without throwing it down the chute. they need to add a feature where it with break up a high volume flush into several lower volume flushes so it goes down the chute. example: flush volume is 600. flush 200, down the chute. flush 200, down the chute, flush 200, down the chute. the high volume flush as it is, eventually hits the nozzle and it travels onto the bed. it's really frustrating and it seems like such an obvious thing to do.
Great video! Thanks for teaching me something tonight 💪. Question though when i start a print i get a warning stating I should open the front door of the printer to avoid nozzle clogs. Did you do this or adjust the temperature at all?
That’s a good question. I got that notification, too, but not every time. Logically, I don’t see how a slightly warmer chamber can cause a nozzle clog. But I kept the door open for the first few layers, and then closed it for the rest of the print, and had no problems.
@@thisprintedthing7967 From the wiki "Having a higher temperature of the hotbed will contribute to the passive temperature increase inside the printer. This leads to clogs occurring inside the P1S extruder or inside the hotend, as the higher temperature leads to softening the filament before it gets melted and printed by the hotend."
So the potential is for clogging before the actual nozzle apparently.
I don't have problems leaving the door shut but I live in a cold country. Maybe if the ambient temperature were higher it could be an issue.
@@dibblethwaite yeah, I’ve read into that recently, too. I also don’t have this problem, because all of my X1-C printers are in an air conditioned room.
I was doing pla and petg prints this weekend on my bambu, and ran in to a pretty severe clog. Use a good adhesive on the bed and leave the door open... should be fine.
Thank you for the video
Could the lines at pet height be due to changes in hot end temp from PETG? I don't know, just wondering.
It’s possible.
Do you do PETG temps for the PETG? Does it reset the temp between filaments or do you find a lower temp PETG? While watching this O found a PETG with a low end of 220 and My Bambu sees to like 220 for PLA though I've only had it for 3 days.
I pretty much allow the X1C to do it’s own thang after I’ve told it that it’s using generic PETG. I haven’t had any problems.
@thisprintedthing7967 I thought I heard that some error pops up with some sort of filament mis match error. I still haven't printed anything that even needs supports. 🙃
Great video!!!.
Do you know if it is possible with FlashPrint and Creator 3 Pro?
Thanks.
Thank you. I’m actually not familiar with either of those.
Some comments I've read have said the layer where you print the support interface with a different material becomes super weak. Like on that model you would easily be able to snap the legs off no problem. Is that true?
It can be. Since PLA and PETG don’t stick together, that also means that they don’t mix together either. The key is to purge as much as possible when it changes materials, so that you’re minimizing how much cross contamination there is. But depending on the model, some parts may end up being weak. This model I used to be a demonstration because of its flat bottom surfaces. But yes, the legs would be quite weak in this case.
Do you think the PETG supports were easier to remove than the PLA supports?
In this video, I struggled with it a little bit. That was more because of the model. I chose this model because of its blocky nature, so as to more clearly show what it does. However, I've used this technique on other prints, and it worked great.
The music makes it extremely difficult to understand you. Also surprised how strong it stuck. I do this often and my parts usually come off the support before they come off the build plate. Your petg seemed like it truly bonded
If you don't need / want smooth timelapse you could just increase the flush volume and get rid of the tower altogether.
I would rather not. Even though it purges into the poop shoot, I would still rather it print a few lines on a purge tower before going back to the model.
Exactly - the pressure in the nozzle after the purge is not stable. Purge tower is a must to ensure a proper extrusion right from the start.
i did this and then I couldn't get the supports off??? Might need to update your settings.
with larger flush volumes you can disable the prime tower
Yes, but I wouldn’t disable the prime tower unless I absolutely had to regain that bed real estate. Having it print to another object before going back to the model is preferable to simply going back to the model right after being over the dump. It helps to regulate pressure in the nozzle. Also, that wiping motion that it makes at the dump is far from flawless. The prime tower can help make sure that any extra material is pulled away from the nozzle before it goes back to printing on the model.
If I’m only printing with one material, I’ll absolutely disable the prime tower. But on multiple material prints, I’ll always use it.
@@thisprintedthing7967 I only dissable the prime tower when doing Interface prints like mentioned in the video because the prime tower can mess up badly and ruin the print,
I use pla as a interface when i do special petg prints(I print 99% petg)
@@storm4710 yeah, I can see your point. It really comes down to a matter of preference. You can risk one thing, or the other. Since I haven’t had a problem doing it my way, I prefer it.
@@thisprintedthing7967 Totally fine
Can I do the reverse? Use PLA as interface material to support PETG.
Yes. I’ve done that as well.
What about making the whole support pet G?
You could do that. But think about how much longer that would take. That would mean that it would have to switch materials on EVERY layer that had support, instead of just the layers that had the support interface.
Good for PLA and PETG but I would need something for ABS and ASA.
I've actually not experimented with ABS or ASA. I would be curious to know if there is a good material to use as a support interface for those.
@@thisprintedthing7967 Unfortunately, I only know the more expensive special support filaments for ABS and Co. namely HIPS and PVA.
@@Shadow27374 I read PVA may burn at ABS temps so its only HIPS and its special solvent.
@@chartle1 That would not be so nice. On the other hand, with the AMS from Bambulab, the ABS roll would be retracted, then the temperature control would come and then PVA would be rolled out. Theoretically, the nozzle should then already be cold enough. But I do not know that.
@Shadow27374 I've only had my X1C for a few days and only done one multi color print. I thought I heard it doesn't change Temps but I may have been reading about another printer. Or just a general warning for the filament. I'll have to see.
Can I use PETG to support my family?? Times are tough 😢
Is there not a problem from the different temperature requirements of PLA vs PETG? I tried telling OrcaSlicer to do something like this a while ago and it complained about that.
Can't remember if I was trying PLA with PETG interface or the other way around.
I was surprised seeing this as you appear to be using the default filament settings.
I haven’t run into any problems with it in Bambu Studio.
why not a single interface layer versus 3?
I like using 3, for extra interfaciness. Joking aside, I just like to make sure that I have a good solid slab of interface material, rather than trust the universe that a single layer is going to print perfectly, without any gaps or holes. You have to remember that PLA and PETG don't stick together very well. So there's always a chance that the first layer that goes down may have some flaws. Add a couple of layers on top of that first layer to make sure that things get ironed out for a better interface surface.
why does it print an additional cube on the side? Can you remove it?
It doesn’t have to print it. But I prefer to as a way to prime the nozzle before it starts printing on the model again. But it’s just a setting in the slicer, and it’s mostly hollow. So it uses very little material, or at least it does in this case.
@@thisprintedthing7967 priming the nozzle prevents previous material from ruining the main part correct?
@@TonyHoangPodcast that’s the idea and the goal. In practice, one would probably want to experiment with and without it to see if it makes enough of a difference.
How do you make a timelapse without the Printhead visible?
Under the Others tab, you want to choose Smooth for Timelapse. You’ll also want to make sure that you have the prime tower enabled.
@@thisprintedthing7967 thx
Great video, however the background music is too loud and unnecessary.
When I try to do this with my X1C I get an error saying the PLA/Cool plate is not suggested for this material (Generic PETG) and I need to set the filaments bed plate to non aero. I have opened up the filament settings to make the bed 35 same as the PLA but it still won't let me slice. If I try to use the engineering plate, I get the same problem but opposite saying I cannot print PLA on the engineering plate. What am I doing wrong?
You may need to use the textured PEI sheet.
@@thisprintedthing7967 rats, the one I don't have , but thanks! I will see if it will slice with that setting
@@BanglesAU just make sure you’re not printing PETG on the cool plate. It won’t come off.
It slices just fine if I say its the PEI sheet, so I just need to get one and I can try it out ;) Thanks so much
@@thisprintedthing7967 gotcha. I would rather not destory any plates anytime soon.
I'm very surprised that it works, I've used this method many times and half the time I ended up with broken filament in the extruder and blocked nozzles. Maybe it's to do with the temperatures, which are very different between the two materials.
Using ABS as a support is easier to remove
Is it? I have yet to do anything with ABS. Maybe that’ll be my reason to try it.
This works well, I like to use neon orange or green Polymaker PETG to make it easier to spot. I mixed this video with the settings from the subtitled German one th-cam.com/video/Matf1Mna2zI/w-d-xo.html and seems to work for me. It is also much easier to remove than the Bambu support filament.
Seems to justify the AMS just to be able to infuse petg supports
True that. If you’ve seen other videos on my channel, you may have seen that I also have the Palette 3 Pro, which does material changing by splicing filaments together end to end. It works well for color changing, but not for this type of application, as PLA and PETG do not splice together well.
how much waste did it create tho?
According to what it showed in the Preview screen, it was going to flush 2.67 m.
@@thisprintedthing7967 6g for 4 layers huh that's a lot if you have a Change every layer!
@@ameliabuns4058 not sure where you’re getting those numbers. The Preview screen shown in the video showed 8 g. But it wasn’t just 4 layers. Everywhere there is orange, that was 3 layers each time.
@@thisprintedthing7967 ooh sorry I forgot interface layers are 3 layers each lol
With advances in tree support and support painting, support interface material isn't really needed so much anymore.
Debatable.
@@thisprintedthing7967 Agreed! There are definitely times when interface materials of some sort are required Using this method is WAY less costly and more readily available. It's very difficult to source breakaway material in particular, for instance. Well done video 👍👍
@@dsemolian3071 thank you so much. And I agree with you. My Bambu X1-C came with a small roll of support material for PLA. I’ve only used it once, just to try it. But I’ve used the PETG support method quite a bit, just because it’s readily available.
but doesn't that just control where the support goes not how well it removes or how smooth a surface it leaves
.
@@thisprintedthing7967 Agreed, very debatable.
I find it a lot less awkward to call it PET-G instead of pee ee tee gee.
I agree, and I do. But there’s always that guy that will see the video and fudge his Huggies over it. Just like as a programmer, I refer to SQL as “Sequel.” But if I say that to the wrong DBA, he’ll melt my face off with his rage.
Saying pet-g annoys me lol
what's the point of uploading a 4k vid when you're out of focus
you may also do the opposite...
Indeed you can. And I have.
dont use 0 for spacing between support and part and leave it default. The support will come off easier.
On the contrary, Bambu Studio even recommends using 0 for top interface spacing when using a support interface material. Since we’re using PETG in that way, 0 top interface spacing is key. This also goes for top Z distance.
Great video, you just may want to consider upgrading your camera, it really lacks detail
Or maybe include some hires photos in the footage.
Bro get rid of the music and please focus your stuff right!
Interesting. But for the future: Don't put music into your video.
Ignore this comment. The music was fine.
If you have to use pliers to remove supports, your settings are clearly not optimal.
The point was to get as clean of a bottom surface as possible.
Normally you want your supports to be doing good enough but easy too break away.
Not in this example though.
Plz talk faster bro.. You stader to much bro
I rather hear him talk than read through your poor grammar. Proofread much?