I used to tell my Soldiers that, as a leader, my job was to act as a lightning rod. When the command team started throwing thunderbolts down from up on high they would flow through me and I would redirect the “charge” as necessary. If they really screwed up they’d get the full blast, if it was an over charge I would send it elsewhere. My leadership style was, if it goes good, you all did it. If it goes so/so, we all did it. If it goes poorly, I did it. Now don’t get me wrong, I’d punish them, but it would be me and not someone else. I rarely yelled (preferring the more effective “stern talking to” approach, disappointment is more powerful than anger) and only threat ever required was me pulling out my Mont Blanc saying, “gentlemen, the pen is mightier than the sword. You don’t want me to start writing.” In 22 years my pen sent countless troops to the board, wrote tons of recommendations and awards, but only 2 Article 15’s.
Thank you for your service. We had a silver bar that came came up through the ranks that we all did are best for cuz we Gaf as opposed to one particular butter that was such a basic load of bad DNA, even command LAHA behind his back .didnt like snakes much either .
As a young marine I had the opportunity to sit next to my Gunnery Sgt. on a 12 hr flight and have a frank conversation about “ What makes a good Marine” . Integrity, efficiency,effort, organization, ownership, passion, perseverance….., it was a long list. Over time, I became an NCO, Topping out at E-7. The best piece of advice he gave me was “ As a SNCO, you’re the filter from the top down and the bottom up. Support and guide those you are responsible for, even if requires a boot to the bottom, or a caring hand to pick them up, and keep the nonsense from reaching those above you. If it doesn’t affect the mission or readiness, it’s not their problem “
What is fascinating about that advice is that it is the same advice officers get about being COL's. th-cam.com/video/yjE83JKMSjc/w-d-xo.html Seems like a universal truth.
This reminds me of a bullet comment one of my Commanders put on my evaluation report. 'this NCO knows when to bring the hammer, but also knows when to put on the kid gloves'
As a retired 1SG, this is true leadership. If you don't slam the little things, you have no right to slam the big things. An ounce of prevention saves a gallon of blood. And a chewing out saves lives.
Cpl Howard USMC. I’m never made Sgt. because of “hard ass” ‘old salt top who everyone thought was a badass. Proved him to be a pussy after a few good slaps when he was running his mouth and we were drinking. Hardasses are the biggest phonies in the military. They’re not leaders, they’re punks who live off gossip and opinion.
A smell a POG. The Tops I had the honor to serve with were quiet, but unyielding (stoic some might say) and let the Section sergeants dole out the punishment for the small infractions. Administrative actions of course required more of his attention, but always with my father's temperament. Medically discharged 14 years now. Maybe things have changed with Millennials and Zoomers.
@mattbrown5511 Nah. Combat Engineer. 8 deployments. You can be as you describe; but, if you let the little thing things slide, then you tend to continue to let more little things slide. That's when something as stupid as training for an action in a garrison environment results in that stupid thing you let slide results in injuries and deaths in theater. Firm but fair. A chewing out SAVES lives. And not all (in fact, most) ARE NOT either loud or public. It can be as simple as "Do it correctly." Finally, having been over more times than almost every other CSM or 1SG I've ever met, you might want to reevaluate your "POG" slur. ZERO casualties. ZERO. A 1SG's Troops ARE their FAMILY. NO PARENT SHOULD EVER HAVE TO BURY THEIR CHILDREN BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THAT THEY COULD HAVE OR SHOULD HAVE DONE. EVER.
I retired as a 1st Sergeant of a cav troop and one of my main jobs was to maintain order and discipline in the troop and the biggest job at times was to filter the BS from the chain of command from top to bottom and at times make the CO look like the good cop because every trooper knew i was the bad cop but I loved them like my own children.
There is always that issue of someone has to be the good guy and someone has to be the bad guy. I've seen lots of command teams have the discussion of "who plays which role"? One of my 1SGs did this weird thing where he cultivated the notion among the troops that I was a cold, analytical, lizard that didn't see Soldiers as individuals and then cast himself as the savior and arbiter of Soldiers fate. He'd say things to the formation like "I just go out of the CO's office and he has a real fixation on getting the motor pool cleaned out...I convinced him we needed at least half the day, but I don't think I can buy us any more time." Meanwhile, I'd be wondering what the hell the motor pool needed cleaned out for.
There's the Chain of Command and "The Chain of Command". I was enlisted infantry and an Armored Cav Officer. The best 1st Sgt. story I have is when, as an Officer, our XO got PO'd about something and went storming into the 1st Sgt's Officer. Had him standing behind his desk in the position of attention and reading him the riot act. I just shook my head, knowing what was coming next. The XO left Top's Officer, the 1st Sgt calmly went into the CO's Officer, and a short time later, the XO was in front of the CO's desk, at the position of attention, with the riot act being read to him. Lt's DON'T chew out 1st Sgt's. Captains DON'T chew out Sgt. Majors, etc.....
Dear god...When I first read this I thought the XO you were talking about was the BN XO...Some LT jacked up their 1SG? That sounds like...grab a bowl of popcorn and sit back to watch the show.
When I was in the Army Reserves I had an incident happen where a new butter bar wanted to be an aggressor to keep all the young people n their toes in their “Frontal parapet fighting positions “ or foxholes and he got carried away and cut. Ll the como lined and power lines going to the CO’s and 1Sgt’s tent and got himself into really deep poop and of course got me into it also. Well he was locked up in one of the barracks we used for showers and I was talked to by everyone from the battalion XO down. While he did this stupid act I was nursing a severe head cold and fever so I was in no mood to hear all the squawk about his dumbness. I was acting platoon Sgt at the time And the next morning as I was shaving after chow my 1Sgt came by and threw me the key to his cucv and said for me to go straighten him out physically and mentally no questions asked. When I pulled up to the barracks and opened the door all I had to do was holler his last name and he came running like a puppy. I don’t know how my mind got everything I had to say to him right but without getting physical I had him crying and shaking to the point of wetting himself. From that day forward anything he wanted to do he asked me by stating my rank and standing at attention After about a year my superiors had him transferred to some God forsaken super combat unit to straighten him out Then in the fall of 95 I retired after 21 years
When I was in the Army Reserves I had an incident happen where a new butter bar wanted to be an aggressor to keep all the young people n their toes in their “Frontal parapet fighting positions “ or foxholes and he got carried away and cut. Ll the como lined and power lines going to the CO’s and 1Sgt’s tent and got himself into really deep poop and of course got me into it also. Well he was locked up in one of the barracks we used for showers and I was talked to by everyone from the battalion XO down. While he did this stupid act I was nursing a severe head cold and fever so I was in no mood to hear all the squawk about his dumbness. I was acting platoon Sgt at the time And the next morning as I was shaving after chow my 1Sgt came by and threw me the key to his cucv and said for me to go straighten him out physically and mentally no questions asked. When I pulled up to the barracks and opened the door all I had to do was holler his last name and he came running like a puppy. I don’t know how my mind got everything I had to say to him right but without getting physical I had him crying and shaking to the point of wetting himself. From that day forward anything he wanted to do he asked me by stating my rank and standing at attention After about a year my superiors had him transferred to some God forsaken super combat unit to straighten him out Then in the fall of 95 I retired after 21 years
Capts/Lts "chewing-out" a 1st Sgt? That happens?! Having been in the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) for 34+ yrs, never saw, yet alone heard of a Lt or Capt EVEN think that they could chew-out a Coy/Sqn Sgt-Maj (CSM/SSM). Only the Regt Sgt-Maj (RSM) or CO would tear of strip off of a CSM/SSM and that would, 9 times out of 10 be behind closed doors.
The same also applies to the reverse situation. As a CW3 company commander I had a battalion CSM try to tell me that I couldn’t recommend my Ops NCO for an award. There were some issues between the two, and he said he wouldn’t sign off on it. I informed him that his approval was not required. He told me that he worked for the Battalion Commander, to which I replied that I did as well. Mind you, I was an NCO for nearly 20 years before being appointed/commissioned, and since I was a commissioned officer I would deal with the BC in the matter. He was surprised to learn that I was a commissioned officer….he apparently didn’t get the 1986 memo…he thought I was some sort of hybrid officer/NCO creature or something. This was in 2008.
You were an Army bureaucrat. Makes sense now. In my 18.5 years of service as an 11 Bravo, the best "Tops" I had (especially in combat) never lost their cool.
As a retired USAF SNCO, I can attest to this 💯. Tough love is LOVE. Consider yourself lucky if a SNCO took the time to give you “guidance” because if you were a POS, the SNCO could have easily went the route of “Sir (or Ma’am) I need to brief you about one of your troops so YOU can advise how you want this handled.” THAT NEVER turns out good for the troop… ‘nuff said…
My favorite example is the "lost weapon" that turns up at the MP station...You can either report that to BN SDO or correct it at the platoon level. Sure, the troop isn't happy, but there is no "happy" in that situation.
I was on a Tiger Cruise on the USS Stenis in '16. My son was deployed on the Stenis, the Navy hosts family members on these types of events. We sailed from Pearl to San Diego. On the last day before port. My son and I were walking through a p-way. You could hear a Chief ripping some sailor a new you know what in his compartment. Now I have no idea what the offending sailor had done, but it sounded BAD! I happened to be approaching a young LtJg coming the opposite direction. We could both hear the "conversation" as it were. We made eye contact and I said "Wow, someone is having a bad day." To which the Jg replied with genuine fear in his eyes, "Yeah, it is best to just keep going." :)
This is how I did it during my career. Handle everything at the lowest level possible. Hold everyone accountable to the standards. Help them when needed, even if they hate your guts, they'll be glad you did later. If you are actively involved in the lives of your shipmates, and they know you care, they'll bring problems to you and it can be handled before it becomes serious. Semper Paratus
You know, there is a lot to be said for this leadership role as a barrier. The higher you go, the more you have to do it. But at the same time, you have to become more and more professional about it. You have to become well attuned to issues that should be blocked and issues that have to be elevated. If a leader gets that wrong, serious problems can occur.
@@the_bureaucrat Yep. Not everyone can do it. I think that I was helped because all my NCO's were Vietnam Vets, and Korean and Vietnam Vets, helped me. Long service career types. By the time I made E6 I had a good idea of how to do it.
Sometimes I had to be an asshole to my troops, but it was all to keep them from getting shit on from above. Yeah I was a bit nitpicky on some things. But since those things were taken care of at my level the leadership above left us alone.
In my last line platoon in Germany (88-91) the company commander made absolutely sure nothing whatsoever happened in the company unless HE approved it and it was done his way. HE would determine whether someone was brought up for NJP, what that punishment would be, and why. He also tended to throw weapons grade temper tantrums when things didn't work out the way he wanted, The E-7 he had as a 1SG was useless as humanly possible, and never took that young ring knocker O-3 aside to educate him about leadership and the probable dire results of his ways. Over a short time I had managed to save a couple of troops from this martinet's wrath, and even had the company's problem children assigned to my platoon. To a man, they turned out to be prime grade soldiers, and when the CO wanted someone for his tank crew or some special project he always picked them from my platoon. Needless to say, we butted heads on a daily basis. One day he decided to get me out of his hair and arranged for me to go to some loser hole somewhere else on the kaserne. The entire company - to include every officer, with the exception of his 1SG - revolted. The battalion commander came to take a look, and got an earful. It was made known (in a round about way) that if the company ever engaged in a firefight, this company commander would not survive. The battalion commander locked young Captain Hotspur's heels and told him two things: 1. If there came the slightest hint of anything else like this from this company, someone's command time would be cut very short, and 2I wasn't going anywhere. Did Captain Hotspur learn anything from the incident? Don't know, but he never screwed with me or any other NCO again. Officers, you have your place and specialities. Day to day operation of your command isn't one of them, it's sergeants' business.
As a former NCO I agree 100% A new 2nd Lt. will be told to listen to the NCO's. The good ones and the ones that become good officer's take that advice to heart. As a 2nd. Lt. you are just as new and fresh and no nothing stupid as the freshest recruit out of basic. It's the NCO's job to get you all up to speed!
I turned 27 (twenty seven) in Basic Training as an E1 in 1993. I thought the army crazily inefficient in many ways but over time I started to understand the why they did the things they did. I still think about the tactics and theory of soldiering. In 96' our 1SG made us learn the Macarena for PT (in Bosnia)...one by one we (Everyone) had to get up in front of the Company and 'test out'. The painful humiliation was priceless. I thought about that morning for YEARS
That's a funny story. I was in a battalion once where they made you sign "Frosty the Snowman" at your first Officer Call (and you had to do it before they let you drink). It sounds stupid & humiliating, but eventually your job required you to get up in front of people and speak. Learning the Macarena has all kinds of "I can learn a new & complicated physical task, then demonstrate it to others" vibes.
@@egweber95goblue Y'all were in the woods by the Canines and consolidated motor pool towards the back gate...it didn't look fun at all! Ever look up the area on Google Earth?... IFORgot why we were there
I had a 1sg That had us doing the butt dance down the PT street for PT one day. It lightened the mood during a tough period and also made us learn something new.
Incredibly true, especially amongst infantry. I did my 18+ years with 4 combat tours. Every Top I ever met knew I was OK when I was bitching about food, the weather, the damned lack of QtrMaster issuing replacement gear, etc. If I stopped complaining, they were in my head space yesterday.
I was stationed at the "grunt farm" Berlin in 1990, on a detail cleaning out a storage room in the basement of our quarters. It was filthy. It was hot. I took an arm full of cardboard to the dumpster just outside the door. The dumpster was overflowing and I crawled inside of it to stomp the trash and compact it down to make more room for yet more trash. The CSM of the Berlin Brigade, a Vietnam Veteran, broke ranks from a Class A's inspection across the quad and marched over. He locked me up as I stood inside the dumpster because I wasn't wearing my cover and I was wearing just my T shirt without my BDU blouse. He didn't really get loud. I think he just wanted to seize the opportunity to lock somebody up in a dumpster. I had to report to his office the following day. He just made small talk and made me sit and polish a 105 howitzer casing with Brasso while we talked. I sat there, front row center, and I got to watch him chew on ass that afternoon. Then later he'd ask my opinion in private. He was human. He made me follow him around for a while. Like a "pet" or something, to the chow hall, on a run. He was actually pretty cool to hang out with for that short time; but, of course, I knew enough to never mention it to anyone and I maintained my military discipline during and after. I might be forever known as the guy that got locked up at Parade Rest by the CSM of Berlin Brigade wearing his Dress Greens while I was standing in a dumpster; but, I'd have followed him through the "Gates" of Hell.
That is a curious technique of "discipline". Essentially, making you his temporary assistant/driver as a "punishment" but also using it to teach a broader perspective. BTW...I have a suspicion that his initial logic went like this "Any Soldier willing to climb into a dumpster to get the job done is the kind of Soldier we want to develop....maybe after a shower."
As a retired 1SG myself, I 100% concur, sir. I explained things to my Soldiers, not only as a 1SG, but even back when I was a platoon sergeant, that my job involved a lot of "running interference" for Soldiers and subordinate leaders. I would take the "hits" so they could run with the ball. However, when someone made a less than perfect decision, committed a minor infraction, or something along those lines, I would be that "angry 1SG", read that individual or individuals the riot act, and move on. That way, others didn't have to take a lot of valuable time dealing with something relatively minor, while making that Soldier realize they had screwed up, that their behavior was unacceptable, and they needed to fix themselves. One other point is being self-aware and not appear to be holding a grudge with those individuals. Administer the butt chewing and that's it, but make sure they understand that the next time this happens, it going to be "put on paper" and the repercussions will likely be more severe.
i see no use in telling somebody the riot act because he made a less than perfect decision, instead of teaching him why the decision was less than perfect and how he could made a perfect decision.
Thank you for this explanation. It is often assumed in the Marine Corps that the Sgt Major or Company Gunnery Sgt (Gunnery Sgts E-7 make the Marine Corps operate) ripping your b*lls off because they’re *-holes and sit in their offices with nothing better to do than drink coffee and rip new ones (in some cases they may be the truth but who really knows). But the NCO or Staff NCO (E-6 or higher in USMC) may be acting as a buffer to tone down or eliminate the problems from rising any further than they have to. As a former Corporal in the USMC , I’ve found a good leadership principle is to keep the issue as low as possible in the chain of command. This serves in both the disciplinary and supply aspects.
@Donner906 has a valid point here. @Denzlercs is correct that it is generally best to handle things at the lowest level. PVT Jones comes in staggering drunk and vomiting on himself? Maybe that doesn't need to go in the log. PVT Jones shows up drunk with blood on his hands and a broken windshield...better call the SDO.
When I was in the Corps I did try to handle things at the lowest level possible but unfortunately sometimes you had to pass it up the chain. As a shop SNCOIC with about 60 Marines to deal with life could be interesting to say the least. Some of the things we did then for correction would be classified as hazing now.
As a former Marine, every experience I had with an E8 and above was either a fantastic experience or a miserable one. Unlike dealing with Platoon Sergeants, there was no middle ground. They were either the coolest people on the planet or you had dreams of fragging them.
Very insightful. I recently read the memoir of a Marine officer. A major, junior to him, was about to lead a deployment of part of their squadron. That junior major and the squadron CO went up to see the Wing commander for a briefing over that deployment. During that meeting the Wing commander "fired" the junior major, and the senior major (the author) had to take over command of that section for the deployment. The squadron CO could have prevented that from happening, and I am sure that came back to haunt him in the eyes of the Wing CO. There should have been someone in-between the junior major and the Squadron CO to protect all concerned and made sure that the briefing was better prepared.
@@the_bureaucrat I think that is correct, or at least "save careers." Whatever went wrong in that briefing could have been prevented by even rehearsing it in front of a peer or the senior major. Interesting channel. I shall explore it.
Thank You! As a lead petty officer I was once told I over reacted. One morning the crew looked terrible, unshaven shoes hair uniforms. Our CO would do random inspections in the morning. One day our XO said our guys were the best but our division officer was horrible. We were excused from the next inspection but our division officer was ordered to attend. Never had any problems again!
As a former 1SG, I made it a point that nothing happening in the company ever became so problematic that it had to go to the Company Commander; if a soldier ended up on the rug before the Commander, then I as a Senior NCO have failed not just the soldier, but the Commander. There were of course some knuckleheads that truly screwed the pooch so badly there was no option but to go to the Commander, but the Commander should never have to deal with an NCO's responsibility if it can be avoided.
Spot on! Having been both an officer and Enlisted the "Angry 1SG" is an invaluable tool in the leadership kit bag! Keep it and resolve it at the lowest level...only advise the uppers if it is something that can circle back...awareness in some cases, but don't bother or disrupt other leader processes unless directed. Let NCOs take care of NCO business as they say...
Well done Sir. Sure hope today's Warriors are seeing your videos of wisdom. We previous generations have to help the newer ones like the ones who came before us helped us. Keep up the great work.
Spot on. I myself as a young 2nd LT and 1st Lt had several instances that I can relate to. Luckily, I understood the value of allowing my NCO's and our company 1st Sgt. Role and allowed them to do their jobs. In the long run, any good 1St Sgt. Knows when it would become necessary for an officer to get involved. I only had one instance when that occurred, while in Korea, the 2nd Infantry Division infantry libe battalion, our tough as nails 1St Sgt. Took control of the out of control troop and asked me to wait in the CO's office while he handled things out in the orderly room. I was in charge as the XO whole our Company Commander was away. After his handling of the physically out of control soldier ( platoon trouble maker), he was re- educated by Top, and once subdued, he came a knock on the door. Quote " he is ready for you, sir, to ready him his rights and referral to Battalion for a battalion article 15. He was sentenced to the retraining brigade. A couple of years later, I ran into said trooper at then Ft. Benning. He was graduating top in his NCO school class and earning his E5 stripes. He thanked me for straighning him out. I congratulated him and returned his snappy salute. At the time, I was a senior 1st Lt for early promotion to captain. I had a very special relationship with my NCO's, learned much from them, and allowed them to perform their job, solving most issues at the lowest levels of command, without my interference, unless called upon to do so.
Understanding the difference between officer and NCO business was drummed into me from my ROTC NCOs, first light infantry platoon sergeant, who took care of me just as you describe, and all the way to my own brigade CSM those 26 years later. Deserved ass chewings in private were few and far between both for me and given by me...growing leaders to both succeed and be prepared to take over the job of the person above them was always my goal. Thanks...just an old retired grunt.
That whole notion of "officer vs. NCO business" is a constant journey. I've found that it helps to talk to your command team about what they think the dividing line is. Its natural to have overlap or gaps and it's best to talk about them before getting surprised by them.
@@the_bureaucrat As a newly minted light infantry platoon leader I met my first platoon sergeant and told him "Look, I've got the book learning but I don't know crap, will you teach me?" He sat back for a minute, cocked his head and said "I will". He covered my ass when I screwed up and made sure I got the deserved attention when I did something good. Whether you're at the platoon or brigade level the solid relationship between you and your senior NCO is the most important thing you can have to be successful, not just you but your entire unit.
I know when I was a teacher, the parents reaction to their child’s misbehavior would affect mine. If the parent was severely punishing the child, I wouldn’t - figuring what the parents did was enough. OTOH if the parents didn’t seem to care, then the responsibility of correcting the child’s behavior was my responsibility.
Interesting...someone has to provide tough love and someone has to provide comforting love...and sometimes the leader has to perform the role that balances the scales...really insightful.
I don't know about ALL First Sergeants...but all of the First Shirts I served with as a 1SG used this method...but what is really behind the method? Idiot Company Commanders who were either too slow to use nonjudicial punishment, too fast to use it, or could not grasp what to use it for. After a few weeks as an NCO you learn that in general, officers do not understand "good order and discipline" and never will. They are either tyrants or doting mothers...almost never in between. This is what led to the First Sergeant becoming the "Father of the Company" and not the Commander. I had 3 companies as a 1SG and not one of them was actually run by the Commander at the day to day level. It is just too important to trust to someone who shows up for a couple hours a day.
That's fascinating. I mean, just from personal experience, I wasn't a very nuanced CO. And you're right about "good order and discipline". A CO wants it, but probably couldn't tell if it really existed. Or couldn't determine what was necessary to achieve it.
He wasn’t a 1SG(First Sergeant) he was a SGM(Sergeant Major), or sometimes called Staff Sergeant Major because they are the Senior NCO in a staff position at the General Officer level G1,2,3,4. At this in the Army they didn’t have Command Sergeants Major(CSM) when the Army founded the need for CSM’s he was appointed as a CSM. CSM’s are the senior enlisted advisors at the Battalion(BN), Brigade/Group(BDE/GRP), Division(DIV) levels. There is a Sergeant Major of the Army(SMA). All three (SGM/CSM, SMA) are E9’s. The SGM/CSM are addressed as Sergeant Major, some do address the Command Sergeant Major as C-S-M. However the SMA you address him as Sergeant Major of the Army.
Plus, when you go back in time, E8 and E9 ranks weren't added until the late 1950's. So at the time of the Battle of Ia Drang Valley, CSM Plumley would have hopped from E7 to E9 in just a couple years.
Former 11bravo Army Infantryman here. I used to avoid my Battalion SGT Major Untill he recognized that I was trying to avoid him Then he was on my ass every time I came across him. Point of the story never look like your trying to avoid your SGT Major
Some of the best advice I got as a buck sergeant from 1SG. "When you walk,you inspect. When you stop, you teach." "If you look good, you probably are good." And my favorite, " Sergeant Ballard, if they ain't bitchin they ain't breathing."
I was an Air Force staff sergeant, so basically for all practical purposes a noncombatant, but I just watched your video and it brought back many proud memories. It may sound as if I am sucking up, but your video completely explained the way I operated with my airmen and my boss, for precisely the same reasons. Very well done, Sir.
Got a secret for you. I retired a First Sergent in the Corps. Once you become E-6 you become the Luca Brasi of the military along with Gunny. First Sergeants don't get mad, we just point Staff Sergeants at what is bugging us.
@tamarackgaming Yup, delegate SSG Diligaf to make some noise and if he steps on too many toes, come in as the rational human being. Then counsel the SSG so he learns from the experience too.
That was a good 1SG. Further, you were a good officer for learning and extrapolating this experience into the O world. A good and directed butt chewing is quite effective if done correctly and for cause. I was in this exact situation more than once.
AS a retired Marine Officer from back in the Vietnam Era, and a former enlisted Marine, I can assure you that it is the wise officer who allows his NCO's and, especially, his senior staff NCO's, to handle the vast majority of the infractions and disciplinary actions at their level....without involving the Company Commander or Battalion Commander. The NCO's truly do run the Marine Corps....and all the other services as well. Not only do the NCO's have a better finger on the pulse of the unit and the troops, but they know the troops better and have much wider latitude in corrective measures that they can take without making the problem "official". Officers are terribly constrained in what they can and cannot do with regard to punishment and corrective action....and the majority of their options are, in fact, "official". And official involvement usually follows the trooper or Marine for the rest of his or her enlistment and career. The rapport between the company commander and his first sergeant and company gunnery sergeant (in the Marines) is one that transcends the differences in rank. Good NCO's will always keep their skipper's best interests in mind and it is the NCO's that make the unit and the CO look good. An officer who does not use and respect the professionalism and experience of his NCO's is doomed to eventual failure as a troop leader.
Your comment is a good "mirror" of this discussion. As a CO, you WANT your Senior NCO's handling most of the business. Not just to bear the workload, but keep things in perspective.
Retired E9 Navy here. From 1975-2009. I was CMACPO ( Command Master Chief Petty Officer). My boss was an Admiral. Answered to him and him alone. Many a time Id have to "adjust" attitudes. I was somewhat of a terror to them, yet they did respect me, not out of fear, it was genuine respect.
To a much, much, MUCH lesser extent I used to always tell the E-2s and 3s that when an E-4 tells them to do something or to stop doing something “That’s a courtesy”. Because any higher than that’s when actual trouble comes.
I am retired Air Force Reserve E-7 I had a young SSgt in my office as I am ripping him apart for some minor infraction when a 2nd Lt. walks in my office. I am giving a young SSgt (E-5) the full monty of a mad senior NCO. the 2nd Lt. never says a peep just goes and sits in a chair in the back side of the office. After the young SSgt leaves the 2nd Lt. says what the heck was that a$$chewing about and I say oh just a minor infraction and it was completely handled by my rage. I always handled issues at the lowest level possible and as a section chief it was my way to protect the young NCOs and Airman from the upper levels. I had to only do that once in a great while but I also learned these motivational mad Sgt. from other senior NCo's over the years. I may have not been liked but at least they respected me when I retired.
Great story...#1 letting the LT watch and then demonstrating that you are in self control by immediately putting the interaction into context is wonderful (two counselings for the price of one) #2) A big trick of making this work is "only do that once in a while". It has more impact when it happens less often.
I'm not a vet but l'm surrounded by vets at work. The most interesting thing l have learned is that SNCO's run the service. The first lesson taught at any OCS or service academy should be this: When you take your commision and go to your first duty station, the first thing you do is call in your NCOIC. Say, " Gunney, Top, Chief, (as the case may be) I'm not here. You're not here. This conversation never happened. Do not let me screw up. Dismissed."
I'd tweak that a little bit. Senior NCO's run the daily operations. At higher levels, they have a less active role. But that makes your advice all the more important. At the company level, an LT or CPT is in a developmental assignment. They need the guidance of a "lifer" because they are just getting started on their military journey. And what is more, the lessons that SNCO imparts will one day play a role in how the CPT-who-becomes-COL thinks about the Army.
This is how it was when I was a Marine Corps infantry officer in the 1960s. It worked well, and I always appreciated those tough, committed, professional Staff NCOs.
#1) Thanks for sharing that this is something of a timeless phenomenon. #2) I think you have an important insight about military companies that I never noticed before. In a company, the only "professional" military member who is committed to being a "lifer" is the 1SG. The CO and LTs are still trying to figure out if military life is for them. The PSGs might have decided to say, but some of them will still leave. And so the 1SG is the only member of the unit who actually thinks of the unit in a certain way.
@@the_bureaucrat Yes. Perhaps that is why we called the First Sgt. "Top". One of my fellow lieutenants once remarked in reference to the career Staff NCOs: "This is their Marine Corps; we are just passing through." (Incidentally, that fellow Lt was killed in action when we were in RVN in 1968.)
As a Retired PSG - I used to have the soldier(s) who messed up perform extra duty at the Plt. Level. This kept them from the possibility of restriction, fines, loss of rank which could happen at the Company level (AR-15). Normally this worked.
It is normal NCO business… from the early days of PNOC, it was constantly being taught that NCO’s were the backbone of the Army. Squad leaders took care of the junior soldiers/team leaders, Platoon Sergeant took care of the squad leaders, the First Shirt took care of the Platoon Sergeants and the other staff level NCO’s. I went from E-1 to E-7 in 11 1/2 years, then went to WOC School. Those years as an NCO and the lessons learned were invaluable when I became a Warrant Officer. The Army went through a change as once we made CW2, we were Commissioned, had to accept RA and Vol-Indef status as the rules changed so that Chief Warrant Officers could be Detachment/Company Commanders, with full command authority as other RA Commissioned Officers had. I enjoyed my days as an NCO. I recall of the many First Shirts I served with, there was one who held NCO Professional Development at 1900, on the last Thursday of the month. He called this NCOPD session “Night Court”. All the unit NCO’s gathered in the conference room and we Jr. NCO’s received motivational kudos or corrective training for things the First Shirt and the other Senior NCO’s observed during the month. We were never degraded or made to feel inferior during these sessions. It was purely done to help us Jr. NCO’s grow, and to teach us to look out after each other so the small details don’t get missed and we could become a tighter cohesive unit by learning each other’s strengths and weaknesses. The session allowed us to explain why we did or did not do something, thereby instilling confidence in ourselves to own a decision we made and defend our decision making process, without fear of being chastised too harshly. The senior NCO’s would be the jury panel, the First Shirt was the judge, and as I stated earlier, we were not chastised harshly, although the jury panel would provide guidance on how a particular subject could be handled differently that was either more effective or less resource intensive. Often times, the Senior NCO’s felt a decision we made was good to go, after hearing the logic that lead to the action made. I loved every one of those sessions, even when I was in the hot seat, I learned more about what it took to become a great leader in that two years with that unit, then I did as a Jr. NCO in any other unit.
That is a brilliant strategy..."night court". Have some young buck stand in front of a panel of PSGs and the 1SG to explain what he did and why. I'm sure lots of situations made more sense once 2 or 3 older NCOs provided their take on the situation. And if you did it as a group where all the NCOs got to see the proceedings, there would be tons of "learning by example". I'm surprised I've never heard of such a thing.
@@the_bureaucrat - We all had the “opportunity” to sit in the hot seat at some point. Since it was NCOPD all Company NCO’s were there. It was a great teaching tool, 1SG Bureleson (later retired as CSM) was an innovative and outside the box thinker. Although most of the lessons were based on the actions of us E-5, a few times an E-6 squad leader was brought before the panel. Most all topics ranging from managing subordinates to small unit tactics were in play for review. The only thing that was not allowed were personnel actions such as misconduct incidents, pending company/battalion level NJP and those sorts of things, until after all action was taken. Then it could be brought to “night court” as a means of detailing the circumstances of the first line leader’s action or inaction. The teaching point was how did the first line leader fail his/her soldier that allowed the events reach that level. The 1SG had a saying, “on average, the commander spent 90% of his/her time dealing with 10% of the soldiers for negative reasons. NCOs should spend 100% of their time, teaching, coaching, mentoring and knowing 100% of their soldiers in all aspects of their lives. By doing this, at least 98% of the actions that require commander’s action could be identified and rectified before hitting the commander’s desk”. This simple reminder of “NCO business” translated into the commander needing to spend less time dealing with only 2% of his soldiers requiring negative action taken.
Lol, I’ll never forget the first time I popped my head into my senior chief’s office to see him absolutely dressing down one of our sailors. “Senior-everything okay?” “Enlisted business, sir.” “Got it.” *slowly backs out and closes door* 😅😅😅
A great deal of leadership is clear communication, in different forms and at different volumes. One of the great honors of serving in the military is learning from people, up and down the chain of command.
You are spot on. An number of folks have commented that high volume yelling "doesn't work". And as you point out, it depends on the audience. Some people respond well to a quite leadership style, others don't take it seriously. The key to a great 1SG is spotting the difference and acting accordingly.
While doing my AIT at First Dix during the Viet Nam war we had a High ranking first sergeant who we were his last class as he was about to retire. He served 2 or 3 tours in Nam had at least two purple hearts and by this point did not take crap from anybody. We had a gung hoe lutenient that this sargeant had ripped him a new ass hole in front of the company. When he complained about that to our Captain he told him to stay far away from him because he was going to be discharged very soon. Best thing the top told the young lutenient was " I spent more f*** ing time in Chow lines then you spent in the Army. We liked him so much for getting our sorry spoiled asses ready for Viet Nam we took up a collection for him.
As an AF 1Sgt, my job was to take care of my Airmen. Make sure they were fed, make sure they had somewhere to lay their heads at night and made sure that they were held to the standard. They knew what the standard was! I didn't yell, holler or scream because that is counter-productive. I spoke in even tones and volume and when I was done, they knew that what they had done was a no go and what the penalty for doing it again would be. I took care of them like they were my kids (most were young enough to be). When billeting was in short supply, even had one of them on my couch in my personal house. If they know that you have their back and their best interest at heart, they work and perform so much better.
Duh. Thanks for the video. If you aren't a combat arms veteran than you might not realize that getting crucified by your peers is far better than attracting the attention of you superiors. I had a Top Kick once ask me "Sweat or paper?" I took the smoke sesh. I was a competent and fair NCO but it took a lot of mentoring to get to that point.
Smart man. I will suggest that least among the logistics guys there is a "sweat" version of punishment. It just looks a bit like paperwork because it involves lots of paperwork cleanup.
Once upon a time many years ago I was an E-5 mortar squad leader, and for some insane reason I didn't know, the company commander suddenly decided one day that I didn't exude enough military appearance and bearing, or something. So he told me that my boots were inadequately shined, and told me to shine them properly and later report to his desk for inspection. When I stood before him at attention he inspected my boots with some degree of disgust and told me "That's minimally acceptable! Do better, Sergeant. Dismissed!" I saluted, about-faced and left his office. I was wondering the whole time "What the hell is going on?" If I were a discipline problem, or a dirtbag, I would have expected to be jacked up by my own platoon sergeant or maybe the First Sergeant at the max, but neither of these worthies had addressed themselves to the matter. It was all on the initiative of the CO. And I never heard from any of them ever again on the matter. I still don't know what that was all about. Truth is, he wasn't a bad officer as far as I could see, and I kind of liked him, even after this. But the mystery does not die. Weird.
I'd bet you a nickel that it had something to do with the CO himself. Either he was test driving his "on the spot correction" skills or he had gotten spanked by the BN CDR over something and he was letting it roll down hill. I think we all have had strange interactions like that before.
2:31 Us 'junior people' as someone who served in 2006 to 2010 as a Specialist E4, yes we do know the yelling and screaming is there to protect us. We prefer getting chewed out by NCOs over getting paperwork by officers. One is an ass chewing that lasts a few seconds, the other is a half a months pay docked for 2 months, 15-45 days of extra duty, and loss of rank and privilege. We don't need to go to college to know the difference I assure.
It's encouraging to see that kind of understanding. It's too easy for an E4 to resent the NCOs without realizing just how much they would HATE the officers handling the same offense.
depends on the circumstances i told a few if they do not stop with that we speak with the Spieß. OTOH i experienced an higher NCO telling a lower ranking NCO be not surprised if you are very alone when the bullets fly in anger
At Dad's Funeral, his dearest friend from the Army told me. When he first met my Father. He thought he was the worst loud mouth SOB of his career to that point. Eddy and Chuck had been at Walter Reid convalescing on semi active duty 1951. He admitted he had fouled up at out meeting. Told how Dad had invited him and Chuck to Thanksgiving Dinner a few days later, kept them out of trouble over the holiday. GOD I miss those men.
Top has a unique place in the military hierarchy. He’s a middleman between echelons above reality field grade officers, inexperienced/under experienced junior officers, mid life crisis suffering senior NCOs, inexperienced/under experienced mid level NCOs, and troops barely out of high school. He has to be a steady hand capable of transitioning from a calm, wise counselor to PTSD fueled rage machine and back - sometimes within an hour.
As an officer, I like the idea that the 1SG has to deal with the inexperienced officers. Someone has to start them on the journey and the better job the senior NCOs do on guiding the LT's & CPTs into the culture, the easier it is for LTCs and COLs to take over when they leave the company.
@@the_bureaucrat The Army always puts you in a job you are one pay grade below the experience for. When you start to get good they promote you and send you to another job you're not ready for.
Everytime 1SG would be looking for volunteers my Sgt or Cpl with smoke us and curse out for random reasons. Never had to volunteer for anything then later went to play cards with SGT or CPL. worked every time 😏
I think part of the reason that's true is that the education system doesn't have UCMJ where the superintendent can place a teacher in confinement or doc their pay as a form of punishment. This "tough guy" military style is in direct response to the fact that if an infraction gets to the officer level, punishments can become draconian.
I only spent 3 yrs. 9 month in The Corps after Vietnam had just ended (early out for Marines accepted to College in '79...Georgia Tech, class of '83 Computer Engineering), but had been a very good athlete in H.S., running cross country and playing both baseball and football and the swim team, plus I was a pretty fair surfer and had grown up with firearms and hunting and scouting and tracking. I made it through the initial weekend Recon screening just out of ITR, and though I was still a PFC, I had qualified Expert at the Rifle Range (top score in my boot series) and had maxed the PFT, so my 1st in Seargeant waived the Lance Corporal requirement and sent me up the Recon pipeline of Indoc, then BRC. My BRC class lost 2/3rds of the class on Day 1 of the pool tests. i could run like a deer and swim like a fish and didn't mind heavy pack humps all day and night and scouting/reconnaissance came naturally so I fairly breezed thru BRC. When I got to 2nd Recon Battalion, I met the hardest Marine I ever met, our Battalion C.O. was an old grizzled up mountain of a man who had been at Chosin Reservoir in Korea with the Marines. Even our toughest scariest Sr. NCO's were scared of him, he led by example and by intimidation. We were in a 7 man recon team and were out on a very long (probably 35+ miles I would estimate) plus hump across LeJeune, from the beaches to hills in the west of the base with full expedition packs. We had been going since about 2 am the previous day and it was sun up the next day so approximately 28 hours. We were all in near Olympic athlete physical shape but a couple of the team were still having some feet problems so we stopped for a small breakfast break and to tend to the blisters and bloody feet. Just after wolfing down some comrats when we are taking our boots off our Battalion CO emerges from the deep underbrush about 30 yards away and starts yelling; Put your boots back on and continue to march...just let them bleed, to stop means to die!!!! And off he went at full route march speed, not exactly stealthy but we got the point so off we went. He marched with us the last several hours with the same pack we had, encouraging us to stretch those legs and keep up with him. Of course we knew he hadn't marched all night like we had but as a pretty damn old Marine and battalion CO to even find us in the middle of fucking bum fuck Egypt and to lead us those last excruciating hours meant a lot to us...Semper Fi kids
@yikes5790...this is one of those cases where I think you are on to an important point, but I would disagree with how you present it...I think you are making the point that fundamentally a First Sergeant should not be doling out punishment. I'd say that a First Sergeant's role is to provide advice to the commander on readiness, health, morale, and welfare. Either way, I think you have an good point.
@@the_bureaucrat health, morale and welfare come under taking care of the troops. Advice to the commander on readiness is supporting the commander. Punishment is a given to discipline.
we had the opposite, I had the senior NCOs -always- advocating for their subordinates. Much of that is great. Except when we had an out-of-regs corpsman who did not want to get his quali done for field medic (due to weight/fitness). He was mid-level enlisted leadership and because of his fat, resigned his post. Then they came to me to write him up for an end-of-tour award. I was like, "for quitting, or not wanting to get fit?". Anyway, they went to the top and I started getting hammered and wrote that bastard an award. If I didn't I'd have had the entire BN enlisted leadership against me, and that won't work.
That is an interesting turn of roles. And I think you highlight an important point about "the entire BN enlisted leadership"...they act as a pack and its hard for one individual to deviate from their accepted norms.
My father was a Command Sergeant Major. I was a Sergeant before attending OCS. My opinion is that you were a damn fine CO and that my fire breathing old man would have agreed.
There is also a factor of significant emotional trauma causing a lock in memory, and a subconscious aversion to the same mistake. Think of it as the emotional version of “pain compliance”. Yes, that means the goal is to hirt your feelings in an attempt to ward off further mistakes
On top of that, When you get reamed out by the 1SG, PSG for something minor, the major shit tends not to happen. Call it pro active leadership. Take care of the minor shit is minor and the major shit takes care of itself. If the young SGT or lower enlisted refuses to learn after that the Officers know they are not just dealing with minor BS, but something that really needs to be addressed.
As first shirt I learned: 1. Truth matters, liars will cover up things that can affect efficiency. Find the truth and solve problems. 2. If you have power and don't use it you don't have it. Use power to correct behavior fairly. 3. Punish in private and praise in public. 4. Ensuring dependants are cared for at home ensures troops are focused in combat. 5. And most important, never lie. Commanders and subordinates must believe you are honest and fair.
I kinda learned that as a Corporal from my Gunnies in The Corps. After my 4 years, I left and got a job and just started acting like a Gunnery Sargeant. It helped me move up!
tops job, is bullets, chow, and morale at least for us he is, even if he yelling he is doing it for a good reason. Never had bad top yet. Angry ones tend to be the best ones, Smokes handle the assery so the top doesnt have to. if top has to fix shit, you really fucked up.
@the_bureaucrat Well you know as well as me that once you finally make it to that rank. A lot of it really is getting the soldiers what they need to be successful. Old 1SG makes sure they have the beans and bullets.
I got out in "78 I had a few 1st,sgts that were always mad it seemed like but later on in life you look back on and realize it was discipline for the troops
I always think back to the mail call episode from Generation Kill. For the whole series the Battalion Sergeant Major had been unreasonably enforcing the grooming standard but in this episode it was revealed he was doing so to distract his troops from other issues that might have affected their performance.
Arguably, it is better to be chewed out at the lowest level with the least amount of paperwork than being chewed out at the highest level with paperwork. Depending on the "problem" with that team leader...it never should have left the platoon level. And in this instance, having the 1SG being the "bad" guy and the CO being the "good" guy is best. A butt chewing is the highest form of "love" and concern that enlisted have.
I have always suspected that, while the team leader was getting the brunt of the noise, that PSG was watching his NCOER get downgraded. All because it "left the platoon level".
We call that ‘First Sergeant’ justice. Rule of thumb is to keep things simple and at the lowest level of involvement needed for discipline, and guidance. Gruffness is but a part of caring. You will find how effective that is when those troopers are in a tight spot and look at you for leadership.
I keep thinking of all those times something was "wrong", but not a problem. A building unsecure, a bivouac not properly policed, a range operating without positive coms. Nothing "bad" happened, but things could have gone horribly wrong. The NCO with the foresight to recognize the danger and correct it certainly does accumulate the trust of others (even if they don't enjoy the process).
He was a CSM. Though, 1SG's could appear angry and loud by design. 1SG Lawrence H O'keefe was one. 1SG, later CSM Dale Carter was another. Leaders of Men, Warriors.
7 years in the Australian army, in tanks, my only job was to drive and maintain my vehicle, and the rest of the time, not be seen heard or known about.
In my Navy career, many of the senior enlisted had contempt for junior enlisted. In the Navy, junior enlisted is E-6 and below. In the Navy, senior enlisted do not differentiate between an E-6 with 18 years of experience and an E-2 with a year in the Navy. As far as the senior enlisted were concerned, the two sailors are equal in status, low lifes. I watch videos like this one the same way I watch Hollywood movies of the military.
You are correct. I just ran into a weird problem sourcing an image because most of the iconic NCOs are either Platoon Sergeants or CSMs. With the exception of Lipton, I couldn't find any recognizable 1SGs. And Lipton is...well...he seems to have had a different leadership style.
As the CO in this story, you are right. My 1SG was creating a scenario where I could overrule his behavior & improve my standing with the troops. And you can only imagine how screwed up it would be if the CPT was trying to enforce angry discipline while the 1SG was walking around being Mr. Nice Guy.
Worked with 3 Drill Sargents and 1 Gunny at a cabinet company. They were reired I ran the Finish Department . Two of them were retired Marines and the other two Army . We got a new hire . He was retired Army also . When Lee walked in everyone if those guys shit themselves ! They all had been trained in extreme weather and conditions by this guy with a " Cut Here " line tattoo around his neck . Lee was the funniest fucker ever ! But seeing the other 4 guys look of " He laughed!" Was priceless !
Yup, would you, junior soldier, rather spend an hour or five in the wood line doing goofy exercises; or get denied that professional school you need to make E7 because you got a counseling for losing your helmet 15 years ago?
When serving in the British Army as a junior and senior NCO if, any of my guys had some sort of transgression, the whole troop got an extra dose of PT either, an extra few miles on a run or a beasting in the gym. Those that weren't to keen on extra PT soon sorted the miscreant out and squared them away! That way it didn't even get as far as our Sergeant Major.
You know that's an interesting point about other Armys. As far as I can tell the US Army avoids group "punishment". Things can get out of hand if troops start self-disciplining. While I've never heard of NCOs explicitly avoiding it, I've also seen much more personalized corrections.
@@the_bureaucrat That was a long time ago! I know things have changed a lot since I left (some good &some not so good) but, the guys knew where the line in the sand was.
I can remember my JROTC senior instructor was a retired first sergeant, and he would tell every class at the start of every semester quote: 'If y'all want to act like ladies and gentlemen I'll treat you like ladies and gentlemen, but if you want to act like puppies I'll bark at you like a dog!'
The best one is when a sergeant can go from "Mr. Nice Guy" to "Fire Breathing Dragon" and back to "Mr. Nice Guy" in the blink of an eye. "Alright, guys what we need is both trucks run thru the wash rack and...JOHNSON GET THAT SCREWDRIVER OUT OF YOUR NOSE...and while that's going on, let's sweep out the bay..." Demonstrating that kind of emotional control makes it much more obvious that you are using a style and not raging like a blind bull.
I'd say it's not ALWAYS toxic, but it can be an indicator of a deficient leadership skillset. In the best cases the senior leader who goes this route knows the Soldier they are yelling at and knows what kind of effect their behavior will cause.
As an NCO we were the buffer from the higher ups and your troops. Plenty of the time i stood up to the senior NCOs before they did anything to my troops.
That's a key role of leaders at every level. It takes backbone and timing. It might not be the first thing that young leaders learn, but they won't go far without it.
The reason you deal harshly with minor infractions, is because you need soldiers who get the little things right, and thereby avoid big problems later. My favorite example was always shaving every day...troop was completely correct in that whether he shaved or not wouldn't affect his mission readiness, but his willingness to disobey a direct, lawful order IS a mission readiness issue. If you can't be relied upon to consistently follow this order, how can I in good conscience put you in a position where your decision to obey or not obey a lawful order could very well be the difference between life and death for another soldier?
That's a really good take on the issue of shaving. "If you don't submit to this minor daily inconvenience which is easily inspected, how can I trust you to perform the major tasks that can't be inspected as easily?"
@the_bureaucrat It's honestly a matter of submission, I hate that as an individual, but the reality is, the Army (or Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and yes, even the bloody Space Force) is built upon submission to the organization, you have no authority at any enlisted (and almost all other, by the way) rank to independently decide which lawful orders apply to you, and which you have an exception to, your decision to question it in a matter that truly amounts to at most, a minor inconvenience is a dead nuts serious problem, you going to decide that falling asleep on Guard is no big deal next? How about the one none of us like to consider, a lawful, but decidedly unpleasant kill order? I wholly support, and will physically fight any officer or elected official to defend a troops right to wholly and very disrespectfully disobey any order which is not completely lawful, but if it's lawful, and you disobey it, I will equally support the maximum punishment permitted under military regulations, as enlisted troops, we voluntarily raised our right hands and swore to obey the orders of both the president, and the orders of the officers appointed over me, your one out is the whole Mei Lei thing, don't do that, otherwise, sometimes it's a bunch of bullshit, but you agreed to do it, so do it.
As a former 9 star General of the Amphibious Corps during the Revolution....it blows my mind how many vets with long drawn out stories can't spell the word "Sergeant" correctly...
@the_bureaucrat Maybe. But seeing a long-winded story with folks who misspell the names of ranks we all are supposed to know how to spell in boot camp, kinda pushed my B.S. meter toward one side.🤷♂️
I used to tell my Soldiers that, as a leader, my job was to act as a lightning rod. When the command team started throwing thunderbolts down from up on high they would flow through me and I would redirect the “charge” as necessary. If they really screwed up they’d get the full blast, if it was an over charge I would send it elsewhere. My leadership style was, if it goes good, you all did it. If it goes so/so, we all did it. If it goes poorly, I did it. Now don’t get me wrong, I’d punish them, but it would be me and not someone else. I rarely yelled (preferring the more effective “stern talking to” approach, disappointment is more powerful than anger) and only threat ever required was me pulling out my Mont Blanc saying, “gentlemen, the pen is mightier than the sword. You don’t want me to start writing.” In 22 years my pen sent countless troops to the board, wrote tons of recommendations and awards, but only 2 Article 15’s.
Amazing, I hope to be like you in the future.
I like the pen..."Don't make me use this."
Thank you for your service. We had a silver bar that came came up through the ranks that we all did are best for cuz we Gaf as opposed to one particular butter that was such a basic load of bad DNA, even command LAHA behind his back .didnt like snakes much either .
There it is Big Dawg
This medically retired grunt would be proud to serve with you.
As a young marine I had the opportunity to sit next to my Gunnery Sgt. on a 12 hr flight and have a frank conversation about “ What makes a good Marine” . Integrity, efficiency,effort, organization, ownership, passion, perseverance….., it was a long list. Over time, I became an NCO, Topping out at E-7. The best piece of advice he gave me was “ As a SNCO, you’re the filter from the top down and the bottom up. Support and guide those you are responsible for, even if requires a boot to the bottom, or a caring hand to pick them up, and keep the nonsense from reaching those above you. If it doesn’t affect the mission or readiness, it’s not their problem “
What is fascinating about that advice is that it is the same advice officers get about being COL's. th-cam.com/video/yjE83JKMSjc/w-d-xo.html
Seems like a universal truth.
This reminds me of a bullet comment one of my Commanders put on my evaluation report.
'this NCO knows when to bring the hammer, but also knows when to put on the kid gloves'
Urrah
As a retired 1SG, this is true leadership.
If you don't slam the little things, you have no right to slam the big things.
An ounce of prevention saves a gallon of blood. And a chewing out saves lives.
I'm glad you share this perspective.
Cpl Howard USMC. I’m never made Sgt. because of “hard ass” ‘old salt top who everyone thought was a badass. Proved him to be a pussy after a few good slaps when he was running his mouth and we were drinking. Hardasses are the biggest phonies in the military. They’re not leaders, they’re punks who live off gossip and opinion.
A smell a POG. The Tops I had the honor to serve with were quiet, but unyielding (stoic some might say) and let the Section sergeants dole out the punishment for the small infractions. Administrative actions of course required more of his attention, but always with my father's temperament. Medically discharged 14 years now. Maybe things have changed with Millennials and Zoomers.
@mattbrown5511 Nah. Combat Engineer. 8 deployments.
You can be as you describe; but, if you let the little thing things slide, then you tend to continue to let more little things slide.
That's when something as stupid as training for an action in a garrison environment results in that stupid thing you let slide results in injuries and deaths in theater.
Firm but fair. A chewing out SAVES lives.
And not all (in fact, most) ARE NOT either loud or public. It can be as simple as "Do it correctly."
Finally, having been over more times than almost every other CSM or 1SG I've ever met, you might want to reevaluate your "POG" slur.
ZERO casualties. ZERO. A 1SG's Troops ARE their FAMILY.
NO PARENT SHOULD EVER HAVE TO BURY THEIR CHILDREN BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THAT THEY COULD HAVE OR SHOULD HAVE DONE. EVER.
I retired as a 1st Sergeant of a cav troop and one of my main jobs was to maintain order and discipline in the troop and the biggest job at times was to filter the BS from the chain of command from top to bottom and at times make the CO look like the good cop because every trooper knew i was the bad cop but I loved them like my own children.
There is always that issue of someone has to be the good guy and someone has to be the bad guy. I've seen lots of command teams have the discussion of "who plays which role"? One of my 1SGs did this weird thing where he cultivated the notion among the troops that I was a cold, analytical, lizard that didn't see Soldiers as individuals and then cast himself as the savior and arbiter of Soldiers fate. He'd say things to the formation like "I just go out of the CO's office and he has a real fixation on getting the motor pool cleaned out...I convinced him we needed at least half the day, but I don't think I can buy us any more time." Meanwhile, I'd be wondering what the hell the motor pool needed cleaned out for.
@@the_bureaucrat You didn't have a professional for a 1SG.
There's the Chain of Command and "The Chain of Command". I was enlisted infantry and an Armored Cav Officer. The best 1st Sgt. story I have is when, as an Officer, our XO got PO'd about something and went storming into the 1st Sgt's Officer. Had him standing behind his desk in the position of attention and reading him the riot act. I just shook my head, knowing what was coming next. The XO left Top's Officer, the 1st Sgt calmly went into the CO's Officer, and a short time later, the XO was in front of the CO's desk, at the position of attention, with the riot act being read to him. Lt's DON'T chew out 1st Sgt's. Captains DON'T chew out Sgt. Majors, etc.....
Dear god...When I first read this I thought the XO you were talking about was the BN XO...Some LT jacked up their 1SG? That sounds like...grab a bowl of popcorn and sit back to watch the show.
When I was in the Army Reserves I had an incident happen where a new butter bar wanted to be an aggressor to keep all the young people n their toes in their “Frontal parapet fighting positions “ or foxholes and he got carried away and cut. Ll the como lined and power lines going to the CO’s and 1Sgt’s tent and got himself into really deep poop and of course got me into it also. Well he was locked up in one of the barracks we used for showers and I was talked to by everyone from the battalion XO down. While he did this stupid act I was nursing a severe head cold and fever so I was in no mood to hear all the squawk about his dumbness. I was acting platoon Sgt at the time
And the next morning as I was shaving after chow my 1Sgt came by and threw me the key to his cucv and said for me to go straighten him out physically and mentally no questions asked. When I pulled up to the barracks and opened the door all I had to do was holler his last name and he came running like a puppy. I don’t know how my mind got everything I had to say to him right but without getting physical I had him crying and shaking to the point of wetting himself. From that day forward anything he wanted to do he asked me by stating my rank and standing at attention
After about a year my superiors had him transferred to some God forsaken super combat unit to straighten him out
Then in the fall of 95 I retired after 21 years
When I was in the Army Reserves I had an incident happen where a new butter bar wanted to be an aggressor to keep all the young people n their toes in their “Frontal parapet fighting positions “ or foxholes and he got carried away and cut. Ll the como lined and power lines going to the CO’s and 1Sgt’s tent and got himself into really deep poop and of course got me into it also. Well he was locked up in one of the barracks we used for showers and I was talked to by everyone from the battalion XO down. While he did this stupid act I was nursing a severe head cold and fever so I was in no mood to hear all the squawk about his dumbness. I was acting platoon Sgt at the time
And the next morning as I was shaving after chow my 1Sgt came by and threw me the key to his cucv and said for me to go straighten him out physically and mentally no questions asked. When I pulled up to the barracks and opened the door all I had to do was holler his last name and he came running like a puppy. I don’t know how my mind got everything I had to say to him right but without getting physical I had him crying and shaking to the point of wetting himself. From that day forward anything he wanted to do he asked me by stating my rank and standing at attention
After about a year my superiors had him transferred to some God forsaken super combat unit to straighten him out
Then in the fall of 95 I retired after 21 years
Capts/Lts "chewing-out" a 1st Sgt? That happens?! Having been in the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) for 34+ yrs, never saw, yet alone heard of a Lt or Capt EVEN think that they could chew-out a Coy/Sqn Sgt-Maj (CSM/SSM). Only the Regt Sgt-Maj (RSM) or CO would tear of strip off of a CSM/SSM and that would, 9 times out of 10 be behind closed doors.
The same also applies to the reverse situation. As a CW3 company commander I had a battalion CSM try to tell me that I couldn’t recommend my Ops NCO for an award. There were some issues between the two, and he said he wouldn’t sign off on it. I informed him that his approval was not required. He told me that he worked for the Battalion Commander, to which I replied that I did as well.
Mind you, I was an NCO for nearly 20 years before being appointed/commissioned, and since I was a commissioned officer I would deal with the BC in the matter. He was surprised to learn that I was a commissioned officer….he apparently didn’t get the 1986 memo…he thought I was some sort of hybrid officer/NCO creature or something. This was in 2008.
You were an Army bureaucrat. Makes sense now. In my 18.5 years of service as an 11 Bravo, the best "Tops" I had (especially in combat) never lost their cool.
Good to hear.
As a retired USAF SNCO, I can attest to this 💯. Tough love is LOVE. Consider yourself lucky if a SNCO took the time to give you “guidance” because if you were a POS, the SNCO could have easily went the route of “Sir (or Ma’am) I need to brief you about one of your troops so YOU can advise how you want this handled.” THAT NEVER turns out good for the troop… ‘nuff said…
My favorite example is the "lost weapon" that turns up at the MP station...You can either report that to BN SDO or correct it at the platoon level. Sure, the troop isn't happy, but there is no "happy" in that situation.
I was on a Tiger Cruise on the USS Stenis in '16. My son was deployed on the Stenis, the Navy hosts family members on these types of events. We sailed from Pearl to San Diego. On the last day before port. My son and I were walking through a p-way. You could hear a Chief ripping some sailor a new you know what in his compartment. Now I have no idea what the offending sailor had done, but it sounded BAD! I happened to be approaching a young LtJg coming the opposite direction. We could both hear the "conversation" as it were. We made eye contact and I said "Wow, someone is having a bad day." To which the Jg replied with genuine fear in his eyes, "Yeah, it is best to just keep going." :)
"What's going on?"...."Butt Chewings, you want one?"
Chief's run the Navy. Not even low level officers will mess with one and those who do find out quickly that they shouldn't have.
This is how I did it during my career. Handle everything at the lowest level possible. Hold everyone accountable to the standards. Help them when needed, even if they hate your guts, they'll be glad you did later. If you are actively involved in the lives of your shipmates, and they know you care, they'll bring problems to you and it can be handled before it becomes serious. Semper Paratus
You know, there is a lot to be said for this leadership role as a barrier. The higher you go, the more you have to do it. But at the same time, you have to become more and more professional about it. You have to become well attuned to issues that should be blocked and issues that have to be elevated. If a leader gets that wrong, serious problems can occur.
@@the_bureaucrat Yep. Not everyone can do it. I think that I was helped because all my NCO's were Vietnam Vets, and Korean and Vietnam Vets, helped me. Long service career types. By the time I made E6 I had a good idea of how to do it.
Sometimes I had to be an asshole to my troops, but it was all to keep them from getting shit on from above. Yeah I was a bit nitpicky on some things. But since those things were taken care of at my level the leadership above left us alone.
In my last line platoon in Germany (88-91) the company commander made absolutely sure nothing whatsoever happened in the company unless HE approved it and it was done his way. HE would determine whether someone was brought up for NJP, what that punishment would be, and why. He also tended to throw weapons grade temper tantrums when things didn't work out the way he wanted, The E-7 he had as a 1SG was useless as humanly possible, and never took that young ring knocker O-3 aside to educate him about leadership and the probable dire results of his ways. Over a short time I had managed to save a couple of troops from this martinet's wrath, and even had the company's problem children assigned to my platoon. To a man, they turned out to be prime grade soldiers, and when the CO wanted someone for his tank crew or some special project he always picked them from my platoon. Needless to say, we butted heads on a daily basis. One day he decided to get me out of his hair and arranged for me to go to some loser hole somewhere else on the kaserne. The entire company - to include every officer, with the exception of his 1SG - revolted. The battalion commander came to take a look, and got an earful. It was made known (in a round about way) that if the company ever engaged in a firefight, this company commander would not survive. The battalion commander locked young Captain Hotspur's heels and told him two things: 1. If there came the slightest hint of anything else like this from this company, someone's command time would be cut very short, and 2I wasn't going anywhere. Did Captain Hotspur learn anything from the incident? Don't know, but he never screwed with me or any other NCO again. Officers, you have your place and specialities. Day to day operation of your command isn't one of them, it's sergeants' business.
It is a wonderful world when officers take care of officer business and NCOs take care of NCO business.
As a former NCO I agree 100% A new 2nd Lt. will be told to listen to the NCO's. The good ones and the ones that become good officer's take that advice to heart.
As a 2nd. Lt. you are just as new and fresh and no nothing stupid as the freshest recruit out of basic. It's the NCO's job to get you all up to speed!
and part of that business is making sure that your NCOs do not get out of hand
I turned 27 (twenty seven) in Basic Training as an E1 in 1993. I thought the army crazily inefficient in many ways but over time I started to understand the why they did the things they did. I still think about the tactics and theory of soldiering. In 96' our 1SG made us learn the Macarena for PT (in Bosnia)...one by one we (Everyone) had to get up in front of the Company and 'test out'. The painful humiliation was priceless. I thought about that morning for YEARS
That's a funny story. I was in a battalion once where they made you sign "Frosty the Snowman" at your first Officer Call (and you had to do it before they let you drink). It sounds stupid & humiliating, but eventually your job required you to get up in front of people and speak. Learning the Macarena has all kinds of "I can learn a new & complicated physical task, then demonstrate it to others" vibes.
C/3-12 Infantry in 96, Tuzla.
@@egweber95goblue Y'all were in the woods by the Canines and consolidated motor pool towards the back gate...it didn't look fun at all! Ever look up the area on Google Earth?... IFORgot why we were there
I had a 1sg That had us doing the butt dance down the PT street for PT one day. It lightened the mood during a tough period and also made us learn something new.
the holy band of thebes had dancing as part of their fitness routine
I always remember the wish words of one of my first sgt’s “ the troops are happy when there bitching”
An old MSG once told me that when the troops stop complaining, the young LT better watch his butt.
@@the_bureaucrat My dad served in Vietnam, and he talked a lot about young LT's that got fragged for not listening to their NCO's.
Incredibly true, especially amongst infantry. I did my 18+ years with 4 combat tours. Every Top I ever met knew I was OK when I was bitching about food, the weather, the damned lack of QtrMaster issuing replacement gear, etc. If I stopped complaining, they were in my head space yesterday.
I was stationed at the "grunt farm" Berlin in 1990, on a detail cleaning out a storage room in the basement of our quarters. It was filthy. It was hot. I took an arm full of cardboard to the dumpster just outside the door. The dumpster was overflowing and I crawled inside of it to stomp the trash and compact it down to make more room for yet more trash. The CSM of the Berlin Brigade, a Vietnam Veteran, broke ranks from a Class A's inspection across the quad and marched over. He locked me up as I stood inside the dumpster because I wasn't wearing my cover and I was wearing just my T shirt without my BDU blouse. He didn't really get loud. I think he just wanted to seize the opportunity to lock somebody up in a dumpster.
I had to report to his office the following day. He just made small talk and made me sit and polish a 105 howitzer casing with Brasso while we talked. I sat there, front row center, and I got to watch him chew on ass that afternoon. Then later he'd ask my opinion in private. He was human. He made me follow him around for a while. Like a "pet" or something, to the chow hall, on a run. He was actually pretty cool to hang out with for that short time; but, of course, I knew enough to never mention it to anyone and I maintained my military discipline during and after.
I might be forever known as the guy that got locked up at Parade Rest by the CSM of Berlin Brigade wearing his Dress Greens while I was standing in a dumpster; but, I'd have followed him through the "Gates" of Hell.
That is a curious technique of "discipline". Essentially, making you his temporary assistant/driver as a "punishment" but also using it to teach a broader perspective.
BTW...I have a suspicion that his initial logic went like this "Any Soldier willing to climb into a dumpster to get the job done is the kind of Soldier we want to develop....maybe after a shower."
If it was CSM Clayton, you got schooled by the best. He could be a scary guy lol!
As a retired 1SG myself, I 100% concur, sir. I explained things to my Soldiers, not only as a 1SG, but even back when I was a platoon sergeant, that my job involved a lot of "running interference" for Soldiers and subordinate leaders. I would take the "hits" so they could run with the ball. However, when someone made a less than perfect decision, committed a minor infraction, or something along those lines, I would be that "angry 1SG", read that individual or individuals the riot act, and move on. That way, others didn't have to take a lot of valuable time dealing with something relatively minor, while making that Soldier realize they had screwed up, that their behavior was unacceptable, and they needed to fix themselves. One other point is being self-aware and not appear to be holding a grudge with those individuals. Administer the butt chewing and that's it, but make sure they understand that the next time this happens, it going to be "put on paper" and the repercussions will likely be more severe.
That trick of "letting go" after a butt chewing is key.
i see no use in telling somebody the riot act because he made a less than perfect decision, instead of teaching him why the decision was less than perfect and how he could made a perfect decision.
Thank you for this explanation. It is often assumed in the Marine Corps that the Sgt Major or Company Gunnery Sgt (Gunnery Sgts E-7 make the Marine Corps operate) ripping your b*lls off because they’re *-holes and sit in their offices with nothing better to do than drink coffee and rip new ones (in some cases they may be the truth but who really knows). But the NCO or Staff NCO (E-6 or higher in USMC) may be acting as a buffer to tone down or eliminate the problems from rising any further than they have to. As a former Corporal in the USMC , I’ve found a good leadership principle is to keep the issue as low as possible in the chain of command. This serves in both the disciplinary and supply aspects.
It also allows bad personnel to keep screwing up.
@Donner906 has a valid point here. @Denzlercs is correct that it is generally best to handle things at the lowest level. PVT Jones comes in staggering drunk and vomiting on himself? Maybe that doesn't need to go in the log. PVT Jones shows up drunk with blood on his hands and a broken windshield...better call the SDO.
When I was in the Corps I did try to handle things at the lowest level possible but unfortunately sometimes you had to pass it up the chain. As a shop SNCOIC with about 60 Marines to deal with life could be interesting to say the least. Some of the things we did then for correction would be classified as hazing now.
@@the_bureaucrat yes, common sense should rule in these types of situations.
As a former Marine, every experience I had with an E8 and above was either a fantastic experience or a miserable one.
Unlike dealing with Platoon Sergeants, there was no middle ground. They were either the coolest people on the planet or you had dreams of fragging them.
That's a good insight.
Very insightful. I recently read the memoir of a Marine officer. A major, junior to him, was about to lead a deployment of part of their squadron. That junior major and the squadron CO went up to see the Wing commander for a briefing over that deployment. During that meeting the Wing commander "fired" the junior major, and the senior major (the author) had to take over command of that section for the deployment. The squadron CO could have prevented that from happening, and I am sure that came back to haunt him in the eyes of the Wing CO. There should have been someone in-between the junior major and the Squadron CO to protect all concerned and made sure that the briefing was better prepared.
Rehearsals save lives.
@@the_bureaucrat I think that is correct, or at least "save careers." Whatever went wrong in that briefing could have been prevented by even rehearsing it in front of a peer or the senior major. Interesting channel. I shall explore it.
Thank You!
As a lead petty officer I was once told I over reacted.
One morning the crew looked terrible, unshaven shoes hair uniforms.
Our CO would do random inspections in the morning.
One day our XO said our guys were the best but our division officer was horrible.
We were excused from the next inspection but our division officer was ordered to attend.
Never had any problems again!
You are welcome. Great example of anticipating problems and making sure they didn't get above your level.
As a former 1SG, I made it a point that nothing happening in the company ever became so problematic that it had to go to the Company Commander; if a soldier ended up on the rug before the Commander, then I as a Senior NCO have failed not just the soldier, but the Commander.
There were of course some knuckleheads that truly screwed the pooch so badly there was no option but to go to the Commander, but the Commander should never have to deal with an NCO's responsibility if it can be avoided.
Here here! If the CO has to start paperwork, it shouldn't be because the NCOs could have stopped it and just chose not to.
Spot on! Having been both an officer and Enlisted the "Angry 1SG" is an invaluable tool in the leadership kit bag! Keep it and resolve it at the lowest level...only advise the uppers if it is something that can circle back...awareness in some cases, but don't bother or disrupt other leader processes unless directed. Let NCOs take care of NCO business as they say...
There's a good reason they say that.
Well done Sir. Sure hope today's Warriors are seeing your videos of wisdom. We previous generations have to help the newer ones like the ones who came before us helped us. Keep up the great work.
Thank you very much.
@@the_bureaucrat You're most welcome and Thank You. You're worth it and why we serve.
Spot on. I myself as a young 2nd LT and 1st Lt had several instances that I can relate to.
Luckily, I understood the value of allowing my NCO's and our company 1st Sgt. Role and allowed them to do their jobs.
In the long run, any good 1St Sgt. Knows when it would become necessary for an officer to get involved. I only had one instance when that occurred, while in Korea, the 2nd Infantry Division infantry libe battalion, our tough as nails 1St Sgt. Took control of the out of control troop and asked me to wait in the CO's office while he handled things out in the orderly room. I was in charge as the XO whole our Company Commander was away.
After his handling of the physically out of control soldier ( platoon trouble maker), he was re- educated by Top, and once subdued, he came a knock on the door.
Quote " he is ready for you, sir, to ready him his rights and referral to Battalion for a battalion article 15.
He was sentenced to the retraining brigade. A couple of years later, I ran into said trooper at then Ft. Benning. He was graduating top in his NCO school class and earning his E5 stripes. He thanked me for straighning him out. I congratulated him and returned his snappy salute.
At the time, I was a senior 1st Lt for early promotion to captain.
I had a very special relationship with my NCO's, learned much from them, and allowed them to perform their job, solving most issues at the lowest levels of command, without my interference, unless called upon to do so.
Many people learn to be great NCOs by passing thru a similar journey.
Understanding the difference between officer and NCO business was drummed into me from my ROTC NCOs, first light infantry platoon sergeant, who took care of me just as you describe, and all the way to my own brigade CSM those 26 years later. Deserved ass chewings in private were few and far between both for me and given by me...growing leaders to both succeed and be prepared to take over the job of the person above them was always my goal. Thanks...just an old retired grunt.
That whole notion of "officer vs. NCO business" is a constant journey. I've found that it helps to talk to your command team about what they think the dividing line is. Its natural to have overlap or gaps and it's best to talk about them before getting surprised by them.
@@the_bureaucrat As a newly minted light infantry platoon leader I met my first platoon sergeant and told him "Look, I've got the book learning but I don't know crap, will you teach me?" He sat back for a minute, cocked his head and said "I will". He covered my ass when I screwed up and made sure I got the deserved attention when I did something good. Whether you're at the platoon or brigade level the solid relationship between you and your senior NCO is the most important thing you can have to be successful, not just you but your entire unit.
I know when I was a teacher, the parents reaction to their child’s misbehavior would affect mine. If the parent was severely punishing the child, I wouldn’t - figuring what the parents did was enough. OTOH if the parents didn’t seem to care, then the responsibility of correcting the child’s behavior was my responsibility.
Interesting...someone has to provide tough love and someone has to provide comforting love...and sometimes the leader has to perform the role that balances the scales...really insightful.
I don't know about ALL First Sergeants...but all of the First Shirts I served with as a 1SG used this method...but what is really behind the method? Idiot Company Commanders who were either too slow to use nonjudicial punishment, too fast to use it, or could not grasp what to use it for. After a few weeks as an NCO you learn that in general, officers do not understand "good order and discipline" and never will. They are either tyrants or doting mothers...almost never in between.
This is what led to the First Sergeant becoming the "Father of the Company" and not the Commander. I had 3 companies as a 1SG and not one of them was actually run by the Commander at the day to day level. It is just too important to trust to someone who shows up for a couple hours a day.
That's fascinating. I mean, just from personal experience, I wasn't a very nuanced CO. And you're right about "good order and discipline". A CO wants it, but probably couldn't tell if it really existed. Or couldn't determine what was necessary to achieve it.
He wasn’t a 1SG(First Sergeant) he was a SGM(Sergeant Major), or sometimes called Staff Sergeant Major because they are the Senior NCO in a staff position at the General Officer level G1,2,3,4. At this in the Army they didn’t have Command Sergeants Major(CSM) when the Army founded the need for CSM’s he was appointed as a CSM. CSM’s are the senior enlisted advisors at the Battalion(BN), Brigade/Group(BDE/GRP), Division(DIV) levels. There is a Sergeant Major of the Army(SMA). All three (SGM/CSM, SMA) are E9’s. The SGM/CSM are addressed as Sergeant Major, some do address the Command Sergeant Major as C-S-M. However the SMA you address him as Sergeant Major of the Army.
Plus, when you go back in time, E8 and E9 ranks weren't added until the late 1950's. So at the time of the Battle of Ia Drang Valley, CSM Plumley would have hopped from E7 to E9 in just a couple years.
Former 11bravo Army Infantryman here. I used to avoid my Battalion SGT Major Untill he recognized that I was trying to avoid him Then he was on my ass every time I came across him. Point of the story never look like your trying to avoid your SGT Major
That there is some world class advice.
Some of the best advice I got as a buck sergeant from 1SG.
"When you walk,you inspect. When you stop, you teach." "If you look good, you probably are good." And my favorite, " Sergeant Ballard, if they ain't bitchin they ain't breathing."
I'll add this one. "When the troops stop complaining, watch your back" That's when they are really upset.
I was an Air Force staff sergeant, so basically for all practical purposes a noncombatant, but I just watched your video and it brought back many proud memories. It may sound as if I am sucking up, but your video completely explained the way I operated with my airmen and my boss, for precisely the same reasons.
Very well done, Sir.
Got a secret for you. I retired a First Sergent in the Corps. Once you become E-6 you become the Luca Brasi of the military along with Gunny. First Sergeants don't get mad, we just point Staff Sergeants at what is bugging us.
I'm glad you are proud of your service.
@tamarackgaming Yup, delegate SSG Diligaf to make some noise and if he steps on too many toes, come in as the rational human being. Then counsel the SSG so he learns from the experience too.
That was a good 1SG. Further, you were a good officer for learning and extrapolating this experience into the O world. A good and directed butt chewing is quite effective if done correctly and for cause. I was in this exact situation more than once.
Thanks.
As a retired 1st Sgt I can honestly say, been there, done that.
I image there are some folks who are glad you did.
AS a retired Marine Officer from back in the Vietnam Era, and a former enlisted Marine, I can assure you that it is the wise officer who allows his NCO's and, especially, his senior staff NCO's, to handle the vast majority of the infractions and disciplinary actions at their level....without involving the Company Commander or Battalion Commander. The NCO's truly do run the Marine Corps....and all the other services as well. Not only do the NCO's have a better finger on the pulse of the unit and the troops, but they know the troops better and have much wider latitude in corrective measures that they can take without making the problem "official". Officers are terribly constrained in what they can and cannot do with regard to punishment and corrective action....and the majority of their options are, in fact, "official". And official involvement usually follows the trooper or Marine for the rest of his or her enlistment and career. The rapport between the company commander and his first sergeant and company gunnery sergeant (in the Marines) is one that transcends the differences in rank. Good NCO's will always keep their skipper's best interests in mind and it is the NCO's that make the unit and the CO look good. An officer who does not use and respect the professionalism and experience of his NCO's is doomed to eventual failure as a troop leader.
Your comment is a good "mirror" of this discussion. As a CO, you WANT your Senior NCO's handling most of the business. Not just to bear the workload, but keep things in perspective.
let them run their job, but not unsupervised, you may have a bad apple
Retired E9 Navy here. From 1975-2009. I was CMACPO ( Command Master Chief Petty Officer). My boss was an Admiral. Answered to him and him alone. Many a time Id have to "adjust" attitudes. I was somewhat of a terror to them, yet they did respect me, not out of fear, it was genuine respect.
Somebody has to be the bad guy. I've met many a flag officer who was simply not going to play that role with the rank and file.
To a much, much, MUCH lesser extent I used to always tell the E-2s and 3s that when an E-4 tells them to do something or to stop doing something “That’s a courtesy”. Because any higher than that’s when actual trouble comes.
That is a fascinating comment. "Listen, PFC, you do you, but if Top catches you...you are toast." It's a funny twist on how the E4 Mafia works.
I am retired Air Force Reserve E-7 I had a young SSgt in my office as I am ripping him apart for some minor infraction when a 2nd Lt. walks in my office. I am giving a young SSgt (E-5) the full monty of a mad senior NCO. the 2nd Lt. never says a peep just goes and sits in a chair in the back side of the office. After the young SSgt leaves the 2nd Lt. says what the heck was that a$$chewing about and I say oh just a minor infraction and it was completely handled by my rage. I always handled issues at the lowest level possible and as a section chief it was my way to protect the young NCOs and Airman from the upper levels. I had to only do that once in a great while but I also learned these motivational mad Sgt. from other senior NCo's over the years. I may have not been liked but at least they respected me when I retired.
Great story...#1 letting the LT watch and then demonstrating that you are in self control by immediately putting the interaction into context is wonderful (two counselings for the price of one) #2) A big trick of making this work is "only do that once in a while". It has more impact when it happens less often.
Interesting where i come from that would with very rare exceptions a losers method forbidden longer than the colonial military existed
I'm not a vet but l'm surrounded by vets at work. The most interesting thing l have learned is that SNCO's run the service. The first lesson taught at any OCS or service academy should be this: When you take your commision and go to your first duty station, the first thing you do is call in your NCOIC. Say, " Gunney, Top, Chief, (as the case may be) I'm not here. You're not here. This conversation never happened. Do not let me screw up. Dismissed."
I'd tweak that a little bit. Senior NCO's run the daily operations. At higher levels, they have a less active role. But that makes your advice all the more important. At the company level, an LT or CPT is in a developmental assignment. They need the guidance of a "lifer" because they are just getting started on their military journey. And what is more, the lessons that SNCO imparts will one day play a role in how the CPT-who-becomes-COL thinks about the Army.
@@the_bureaucrat Thanks! Every junior officer needs a Sergeant Warden!
This is how it was when I was a Marine Corps infantry officer in the 1960s. It worked well, and I always appreciated those tough, committed, professional Staff NCOs.
#1) Thanks for sharing that this is something of a timeless phenomenon.
#2) I think you have an important insight about military companies that I never noticed before. In a company, the only "professional" military member who is committed to being a "lifer" is the 1SG. The CO and LTs are still trying to figure out if military life is for them. The PSGs might have decided to say, but some of them will still leave. And so the 1SG is the only member of the unit who actually thinks of the unit in a certain way.
@@the_bureaucrat Yes. Perhaps that is why we called the First Sgt. "Top". One of my fellow lieutenants once remarked in reference to the career Staff NCOs: "This is their Marine Corps; we are just passing through." (Incidentally, that fellow Lt was killed in action when we were in RVN in 1968.)
As a Retired PSG - I used to have the soldier(s) who messed up perform extra duty at the Plt. Level. This kept them from the possibility of restriction, fines, loss of rank which could happen at the Company level (AR-15). Normally this worked.
Drove military vehicle across parade field...detailed to patch & reseed parade field...repercussions taught? 100% Paperwork filed 0%.
@@the_bureaucratand duty commensurate with correction required is not punishment, thus within limits of authority.
It is normal NCO business… from the early days of PNOC, it was constantly being taught that NCO’s were the backbone of the Army. Squad leaders took care of the junior soldiers/team leaders, Platoon Sergeant took care of the squad leaders, the First Shirt took care of the Platoon Sergeants and the other staff level NCO’s. I went from E-1 to E-7 in 11 1/2 years, then went to WOC School. Those years as an NCO and the lessons learned were invaluable when I became a Warrant Officer. The Army went through a change as once we made CW2, we were Commissioned, had to accept RA and Vol-Indef status as the rules changed so that Chief Warrant Officers could be Detachment/Company Commanders, with full command authority as other RA Commissioned Officers had. I enjoyed my days as an NCO. I recall of the many First Shirts I served with, there was one who held NCO Professional Development at 1900, on the last Thursday of the month. He called this NCOPD session “Night Court”. All the unit NCO’s gathered in the conference room and we Jr. NCO’s received motivational kudos or corrective training for things the First Shirt and the other Senior NCO’s observed during the month. We were never degraded or made to feel inferior during these sessions. It was purely done to help us Jr. NCO’s grow, and to teach us to look out after each other so the small details don’t get missed and we could become a tighter cohesive unit by learning each other’s strengths and weaknesses. The session allowed us to explain why we did or did not do something, thereby instilling confidence in ourselves to own a decision we made and defend our decision making process, without fear of being chastised too harshly. The senior NCO’s would be the jury panel, the First Shirt was the judge, and as I stated earlier, we were not chastised harshly, although the jury panel would provide guidance on how a particular subject could be handled differently that was either more effective or less resource intensive. Often times, the Senior NCO’s felt a decision we made was good to go, after hearing the logic that lead to the action made. I loved every one of those sessions, even when I was in the hot seat, I learned more about what it took to become a great leader in that two years with that unit, then I did as a Jr. NCO in any other unit.
That is a brilliant strategy..."night court". Have some young buck stand in front of a panel of PSGs and the 1SG to explain what he did and why. I'm sure lots of situations made more sense once 2 or 3 older NCOs provided their take on the situation. And if you did it as a group where all the NCOs got to see the proceedings, there would be tons of "learning by example".
I'm surprised I've never heard of such a thing.
@@the_bureaucrat - We all had the “opportunity” to sit in the hot seat at some point. Since it was NCOPD all Company NCO’s were there. It was a great teaching tool, 1SG Bureleson (later retired as CSM) was an innovative and outside the box thinker. Although most of the lessons were based on the actions of us E-5, a few times an E-6 squad leader was brought before the panel. Most all topics ranging from managing subordinates to small unit tactics were in play for review. The only thing that was not allowed were personnel actions such as misconduct incidents, pending company/battalion level NJP and those sorts of things, until after all action was taken. Then it could be brought to “night court” as a means of detailing the circumstances of the first line leader’s action or inaction. The teaching point was how did the first line leader fail his/her soldier that allowed the events reach that level. The 1SG had a saying, “on average, the commander spent 90% of his/her time dealing with 10% of the soldiers for negative reasons. NCOs should spend 100% of their time, teaching, coaching, mentoring and knowing 100% of their soldiers in all aspects of their lives. By doing this, at least 98% of the actions that require commander’s action could be identified and rectified before hitting the commander’s desk”. This simple reminder of “NCO business” translated into the commander needing to spend less time dealing with only 2% of his soldiers requiring negative action taken.
1900 ncodp yuck
Lol, I’ll never forget the first time I popped my head into my senior chief’s office to see him absolutely dressing down one of our sailors.
“Senior-everything okay?”
“Enlisted business, sir.”
“Got it.”
*slowly backs out and closes door*
😅😅😅
If your 1st Sgt is in a good mood, duck and take cover...
"Top's in a bad mood".
"Situation normal. Cool".
Ho ho...that or panicked. It's not a good sign when Top is panicking.
A great deal of leadership is clear communication, in different forms and at different volumes. One of the great honors of serving in the military is learning from people, up and down the chain of command.
You are spot on. An number of folks have commented that high volume yelling "doesn't work". And as you point out, it depends on the audience. Some people respond well to a quite leadership style, others don't take it seriously. The key to a great 1SG is spotting the difference and acting accordingly.
While doing my AIT at First Dix during the Viet Nam war we had a High ranking first sergeant who we were his last class as he was about to retire. He served 2 or 3 tours in Nam had at least two purple hearts and by this point did not take crap from anybody. We had a gung hoe lutenient that this sargeant had ripped him a new ass hole in front of the company. When he complained about that to our Captain he told him to stay far away from him because he was going to be discharged very soon. Best thing the top told the young lutenient was " I spent more f*** ing time in Chow lines then you spent in the Army. We liked him so much for getting our sorry spoiled asses ready for Viet Nam we took up a collection for him.
I love "LT meets 1SG" stories.
Great analogy Sir!
Thank you.
As an AF 1Sgt, my job was to take care of my Airmen. Make sure they were fed, make sure they had somewhere to lay their heads at night and made sure that they were held to the standard. They knew what the standard was! I didn't yell, holler or scream because that is counter-productive. I spoke in even tones and volume and when I was done, they knew that what they had done was a no go and what the penalty for doing it again would be. I took care of them like they were my kids (most were young enough to be). When billeting was in short supply, even had one of them on my couch in my personal house. If they know that you have their back and their best interest at heart, they work and perform so much better.
Awesome.
I was a Marine Infantryman in Desert Storm. Never did I have an officer or NCO try to protect me. They were all pieces of shit.
Fuck them, hope you're doing good right now.
guilty...
sorry to hear that. They missed an opportunity.
Duh. Thanks for the video. If you aren't a combat arms veteran than you might not realize that getting crucified by your peers is far better than attracting the attention of you superiors. I had a Top Kick once ask me "Sweat or paper?" I took the smoke sesh. I was a competent and fair NCO but it took a lot of mentoring to get to that point.
Smart man. I will suggest that least among the logistics guys there is a "sweat" version of punishment. It just looks a bit like paperwork because it involves lots of paperwork cleanup.
Once upon a time many years ago I was an E-5 mortar squad leader, and for some insane reason I didn't know, the company commander suddenly decided one day that I didn't exude enough military appearance and bearing, or something. So he told me that my boots were inadequately shined, and told me to shine them properly and later report to his desk for inspection. When I stood before him at attention he inspected my boots with some degree of disgust and told me "That's minimally acceptable! Do better, Sergeant. Dismissed!" I saluted, about-faced and left his office. I was wondering the whole time "What the hell is going on?" If I were a discipline problem, or a dirtbag, I would have expected to be jacked up by my own platoon sergeant or maybe the First Sergeant at the max, but neither of these worthies had addressed themselves to the matter. It was all on the initiative of the CO. And I never heard from any of them ever again on the matter. I still don't know what that was all about. Truth is, he wasn't a bad officer as far as I could see, and I kind of liked him, even after this. But the mystery does not die. Weird.
I'd bet you a nickel that it had something to do with the CO himself. Either he was test driving his "on the spot correction" skills or he had gotten spanked by the BN CDR over something and he was letting it roll down hill. I think we all have had strange interactions like that before.
2:31 Us 'junior people' as someone who served in 2006 to 2010 as a Specialist E4, yes we do know the yelling and screaming is there to protect us. We prefer getting chewed out by NCOs over getting paperwork by officers. One is an ass chewing that lasts a few seconds, the other is a half a months pay docked for 2 months, 15-45 days of extra duty, and loss of rank and privilege. We don't need to go to college to know the difference I assure.
It's encouraging to see that kind of understanding. It's too easy for an E4 to resent the NCOs without realizing just how much they would HATE the officers handling the same offense.
depends on the circumstances i told a few if they do not stop with that we speak with the Spieß.
OTOH i experienced an higher NCO telling a lower ranking NCO be not surprised if you are very alone when the bullets fly in anger
At Dad's Funeral, his dearest friend from the Army told me. When he first met my Father. He thought he was the worst loud mouth SOB of his career to that point. Eddy and Chuck had been at Walter Reid convalescing on semi active duty 1951. He admitted he had fouled up at out meeting. Told how Dad had invited him and Chuck to Thanksgiving Dinner a few days later, kept them out of trouble over the holiday. GOD I miss those men.
They were a special breed that leave a hole in our world.
Top has a unique place in the military hierarchy. He’s a middleman between echelons above reality field grade officers, inexperienced/under experienced junior officers, mid life crisis suffering senior NCOs, inexperienced/under experienced mid level NCOs, and troops barely out of high school. He has to be a steady hand capable of transitioning from a calm, wise counselor to PTSD fueled rage machine and back - sometimes within an hour.
As an officer, I like the idea that the 1SG has to deal with the inexperienced officers. Someone has to start them on the journey and the better job the senior NCOs do on guiding the LT's & CPTs into the culture, the easier it is for LTCs and COLs to take over when they leave the company.
@@the_bureaucrat The Army always puts you in a job you are one pay grade below the experience for. When you start to get good they promote you and send you to another job you're not ready for.
No one chewed out Top. He might have been " counseled " by the CO.
Or the CSM.
Everytime 1SG would be looking for volunteers my Sgt or Cpl with smoke us and curse out for random reasons. Never had to volunteer for anything then later went to play cards with SGT or CPL. worked every time 😏
That's an interesting twist on this technique
Do that in a public school, and your principal will put you on an improvement plan for being disrespectful.
I think part of the reason that's true is that the education system doesn't have UCMJ where the superintendent can place a teacher in confinement or doc their pay as a form of punishment. This "tough guy" military style is in direct response to the fact that if an infraction gets to the officer level, punishments can become draconian.
Thank you all💪🇺🇸🇺🇸
😊
I only spent 3 yrs. 9 month in The Corps after Vietnam had just ended (early out for Marines accepted to College in '79...Georgia Tech, class of '83 Computer Engineering), but had been a very good athlete in H.S., running cross country and playing both baseball and football and the swim team, plus I was a pretty fair surfer and had grown up with firearms and hunting and scouting and tracking. I made it through the initial weekend Recon screening just out of ITR, and though I was still a PFC, I had qualified Expert at the Rifle Range (top score in my boot series) and had maxed the PFT, so my 1st in Seargeant waived the Lance Corporal requirement and sent me up the Recon pipeline of Indoc, then BRC. My BRC class lost 2/3rds of the class on Day 1 of the pool tests. i could run like a deer and swim like a fish and didn't mind heavy pack humps all day and night and scouting/reconnaissance came naturally so I fairly breezed thru BRC. When I got to 2nd Recon Battalion, I met the hardest Marine I ever met, our Battalion C.O. was an old grizzled up mountain of a man who had been at Chosin Reservoir in Korea with the Marines. Even our toughest scariest Sr. NCO's were scared of him, he led by example and by intimidation. We were in a 7 man recon team and were out on a very long (probably 35+ miles I would estimate) plus hump across LeJeune, from the beaches to hills in the west of the base with full expedition packs. We had been going since about 2 am the previous day and it was sun up the next day so approximately 28 hours. We were all in near Olympic athlete physical shape but a couple of the team were still having some feet problems so we stopped for a small breakfast break and to tend to the blisters and bloody feet. Just after wolfing down some comrats when we are taking our boots off our Battalion CO emerges from the deep underbrush about 30 yards away and starts yelling; Put your boots back on and continue to march...just let them bleed, to stop means to die!!!! And off he went at full route march speed, not exactly stealthy but we got the point so off we went. He marched with us the last several hours with the same pack we had, encouraging us to stretch those legs and keep up with him. Of course we knew he hadn't marched all night like we had but as a pretty damn old Marine and battalion CO to even find us in the middle of fucking bum fuck Egypt and to lead us those last excruciating hours meant a lot to us...Semper Fi kids
Great story.
There was no video at the end, to which you refeared. What video there was supposed to be?
It was this video: th-cam.com/video/OzA4U6ymjMw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=kXpohIMnj-B3j9U-
Some platforms and devices don't show the link to the next video.
As a retired 1SG, this is spot on.
I'm getting more and more curious about how 1SGs view COs.
I had good ones and bad ones.
Tough love. As a Dad or as an NCO. It's all the same.
The trick is you have to be able to follow thru. No hollow threats.
any scientific proof that thing exists
First Sergeants sole responsibility take care of the enlisted soldiers in the company.
@yikes5790...this is one of those cases where I think you are on to an important point, but I would disagree with how you present it...I think you are making the point that fundamentally a First Sergeant should not be doling out punishment. I'd say that a First Sergeant's role is to provide advice to the commander on readiness, health, morale, and welfare. Either way, I think you have an good point.
@@the_bureaucrat health, morale and welfare come under taking care of the troops. Advice to the commander on readiness is supporting the commander. Punishment is a given to discipline.
As we used to call it..."Sargent's Time"
Indeed.
we had the opposite, I had the senior NCOs -always- advocating for their subordinates. Much of that is great. Except when we had an out-of-regs corpsman who did not want to get his quali done for field medic (due to weight/fitness). He was mid-level enlisted leadership and because of his fat, resigned his post. Then they came to me to write him up for an end-of-tour award. I was like, "for quitting, or not wanting to get fit?". Anyway, they went to the top and I started getting hammered and wrote that bastard an award. If I didn't I'd have had the entire BN enlisted leadership against me, and that won't work.
That is an interesting turn of roles. And I think you highlight an important point about "the entire BN enlisted leadership"...they act as a pack and its hard for one individual to deviate from their accepted norms.
My father was a Command Sergeant Major. I was a Sergeant before attending OCS. My opinion is that you were a damn fine CO and that my fire breathing old man would have agreed.
I don't know who you think I am, but a decent CO...I was not.
In the Marine Corps I started out thinking the gunnery sergeant was scary…until I encountered the battalion sergeant major.
One day the COL thought the General was scary...then he met the Congressional intern 😂
There is also a factor of significant emotional trauma causing a lock in memory, and a subconscious aversion to the same mistake. Think of it as the emotional version of “pain compliance”.
Yes, that means the goal is to hirt your feelings in an attempt to ward off further mistakes
Double check
On top of that, When you get reamed out by the 1SG, PSG for something minor, the major shit tends not to happen. Call it pro active leadership. Take care of the minor shit is minor and the major shit takes care of itself. If the young SGT or lower enlisted refuses to learn after that the Officers know they are not just dealing with minor BS, but something that really needs to be addressed.
I keep thinking of that unlocked CONEX container. Maybe nothing bad happened today. But that can turn into a disaster if not corrected.
As first shirt I learned: 1. Truth matters, liars will cover up things that can affect efficiency. Find the truth and solve problems. 2. If you have power and don't use it you don't have it. Use power to correct behavior fairly. 3. Punish in private and praise in public. 4. Ensuring dependants are cared for at home ensures troops are focused in combat. 5. And most important, never lie. Commanders and subordinates must believe you are honest and fair.
I'm gonna screen shot this for future reference. Good points.
Guess our motor seargent saved my arse repeatedly.
Motor sergeants? Lemme just say, when the CO gets called down to the motor pool...ain't nothing good.
@@the_bureaucrat 8 of that should of been 48 to 52 man support platoon . We supported 2 mechanized infantry battalions. It already wasnt good .
I kinda learned that as a Corporal from my Gunnies in The Corps. After my 4 years, I left and got a job and just started acting like a Gunnery Sargeant. It helped me move up!
It's funny. You can apply this technique without the yelling and the fundamentals work just the same.
On a different level this is why Russia failed
They have no sgts
This is the difference
Especially when you consider how much training and education American Sergeants have.
Yes First Sargent!! 🇺🇸
None other.
tops job, is bullets, chow, and morale at least for us he is, even if he yelling he is doing it for a good reason. Never had bad top yet. Angry ones tend to be the best ones, Smokes handle the assery so the top doesnt have to. if top has to fix shit, you really fucked up.
That's a good take on things: "If Top has to fix it, at least two subordinate NCOs fucked up".
Nothing like wearing that diamond and taking care of soldiers 🪖
That's the crazy thing...I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. Because both are true at the same time.
@the_bureaucrat Well you know as well as me that once you finally make it to that rank. A lot of it really is getting the soldiers what they need to be successful. Old 1SG makes sure they have the beans and bullets.
I referred to a First Sergeant as a Company Prosecutor. They do get agitated.
Indeed they do.
I got out in "78 I had a few 1st,sgts that were always mad it seemed like but later on in life you look back on and realize it was discipline for the troops
Being a senior NCO isn't an easy or particularly "fun" job. I can imagine many of them are mad for pretty good reasons.
I always think back to the mail call episode from Generation Kill. For the whole series the Battalion Sergeant Major had been unreasonably enforcing the grooming standard but in this episode it was revealed he was doing so to distract his troops from other issues that might have affected their performance.
That's a good point. How many times has a leader had to manufacture something to distract the troops and quell rumors?
Good job impressed and I like it
12 years
Combat medic and 2 tours
Combat medic...2 tours...not easy.
Arguably, it is better to be chewed out at the lowest level with the least amount of paperwork than being chewed out at the highest level with paperwork. Depending on the "problem" with that team leader...it never should have left the platoon level.
And in this instance, having the 1SG being the "bad" guy and the CO being the "good" guy is best. A butt chewing is the highest form of "love" and concern that enlisted have.
I have always suspected that, while the team leader was getting the brunt of the noise, that PSG was watching his NCOER get downgraded. All because it "left the platoon level".
We call that ‘First Sergeant’ justice. Rule of thumb is to keep things simple and at the lowest level of involvement needed for discipline, and guidance. Gruffness is but a part of caring. You will find how effective that is when those troopers are in a tight spot and look at you for leadership.
I keep thinking of all those times something was "wrong", but not a problem. A building unsecure, a bivouac not properly policed, a range operating without positive coms. Nothing "bad" happened, but things could have gone horribly wrong. The NCO with the foresight to recognize the danger and correct it certainly does accumulate the trust of others (even if they don't enjoy the process).
@@the_bureaucrat
those are a problem, the bad has not happened yet
He was a CSM.
Though, 1SG's could appear angry and loud by design.
1SG Lawrence H O'keefe was one.
1SG, later CSM Dale Carter was another.
Leaders of Men, Warriors.
Thanks for the names.
7 years in the Australian army, in tanks, my only job was to drive and maintain my vehicle, and the rest of the time, not be seen heard or known about.
Someone once told me "Do your job so well that they don't know you've done anything."
In my Navy career, many of the senior enlisted had contempt for junior enlisted. In the Navy, junior enlisted is E-6 and below. In the Navy, senior enlisted do not differentiate between an E-6 with 18 years of experience and an E-2 with a year in the Navy. As far as the senior enlisted were concerned, the two sailors are equal in status, low lifes.
I watch videos like this one the same way I watch Hollywood movies of the military.
The Navy is a tough place to make a career.
If I remember correctly plumbly was a sergeant major not a first sergeant
You are correct. I just ran into a weird problem sourcing an image because most of the iconic NCOs are either Platoon Sergeants or CSMs. With the exception of Lipton, I couldn't find any recognizable 1SGs. And Lipton is...well...he seems to have had a different leadership style.
It would also open the door on getting the subordinates to like whoever is immediately over the first sergeant.
As the CO in this story, you are right. My 1SG was creating a scenario where I could overrule his behavior & improve my standing with the troops. And you can only imagine how screwed up it would be if the CPT was trying to enforce angry discipline while the 1SG was walking around being Mr. Nice Guy.
Worked with 3 Drill Sargents and 1 Gunny at a cabinet company. They were reired
I ran the Finish Department .
Two of them were retired Marines and the other two Army .
We got a new hire . He was retired Army also . When Lee walked in everyone if those guys shit themselves !
They all had been trained in extreme weather and conditions by this guy with a " Cut Here " line tattoo around his neck .
Lee was the funniest fucker ever !
But seeing the other 4 guys look of " He laughed!" Was priceless !
Awesome!
Yup, would you, junior soldier, rather spend an hour or five in the wood line doing goofy exercises; or get denied that professional school you need to make E7 because you got a counseling for losing your helmet 15 years ago?
Lots of Junior enlisted don't see it, but just one little piece of paperwork about a misplaced weapon can stick to your shoe for decades.
I observed that effective leaders raised their voice less as they attained higher rank.
Indeed. This is true of many.
When serving in the British Army as a junior and senior NCO if, any of my guys had some sort of transgression, the whole troop got an extra dose of PT either, an extra few miles on a run or a beasting in the gym. Those that weren't to keen on extra PT soon sorted the miscreant out and squared them away! That way it didn't even get as far as our Sergeant Major.
You know that's an interesting point about other Armys. As far as I can tell the US Army avoids group "punishment". Things can get out of hand if troops start self-disciplining. While I've never heard of NCOs explicitly avoiding it, I've also seen much more personalized corrections.
@@the_bureaucrat That was a long time ago! I know things have changed a lot since I left (some good &some not so good) but, the guys knew where the line in the sand was.
1SG; "LT, I work for one man in this Battery, and you ain't him".
Nice.
No paperwork! Good Junior NCOs don’t need their careers ruined by the CO.
A cheerful CO can sign some paperwork, "Don't worry, son. This is just part of your local file"...and it really, really ruins a career.
Example of protecting, and training your subordinates, to do your job.
Bingo.
I can remember my JROTC senior instructor was a retired first sergeant, and he would tell every class at the start of every semester quote: 'If y'all want to act like ladies and gentlemen I'll treat you like ladies and gentlemen, but if you want to act like puppies I'll bark at you like a dog!'
That is a great mindset.
Be a good officer and keep your nose out of it. Let the NCOs handle it.
Yep, the 1SG will let you know when its time to start paperwork.
@@the_bureaucrat Good Officers stay in their office. 😉
As a platoon sergeant it was privilege and honor to wield Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde leadership styles.😂
The best one is when a sergeant can go from "Mr. Nice Guy" to "Fire Breathing Dragon" and back to "Mr. Nice Guy" in the blink of an eye. "Alright, guys what we need is both trucks run thru the wash rack and...JOHNSON GET THAT SCREWDRIVER OUT OF YOUR NOSE...and while that's going on, let's sweep out the bay..." Demonstrating that kind of emotional control makes it much more obvious that you are using a style and not raging like a blind bull.
Still sounds toxic to me. This is why I was more than happy to get out.
I'd say it's not ALWAYS toxic, but it can be an indicator of a deficient leadership skillset. In the best cases the senior leader who goes this route knows the Soldier they are yelling at and knows what kind of effect their behavior will cause.
As an NCO we were the buffer from the higher ups and your troops. Plenty of the time i stood up to the senior NCOs before they did anything to my troops.
Damn nice
That's a key role of leaders at every level. It takes backbone and timing. It might not be the first thing that young leaders learn, but they won't go far without it.
The reason you deal harshly with minor infractions, is because you need soldiers who get the little things right, and thereby avoid big problems later. My favorite example was always shaving every day...troop was completely correct in that whether he shaved or not wouldn't affect his mission readiness, but his willingness to disobey a direct, lawful order IS a mission readiness issue. If you can't be relied upon to consistently follow this order, how can I in good conscience put you in a position where your decision to obey or not obey a lawful order could very well be the difference between life and death for another soldier?
That's a really good take on the issue of shaving. "If you don't submit to this minor daily inconvenience which is easily inspected, how can I trust you to perform the major tasks that can't be inspected as easily?"
@the_bureaucrat It's honestly a matter of submission, I hate that as an individual, but the reality is, the Army (or Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and yes, even the bloody Space Force) is built upon submission to the organization, you have no authority at any enlisted (and almost all other, by the way) rank to independently decide which lawful orders apply to you, and which you have an exception to, your decision to question it in a matter that truly amounts to at most, a minor inconvenience is a dead nuts serious problem, you going to decide that falling asleep on Guard is no big deal next? How about the one none of us like to consider, a lawful, but decidedly unpleasant kill order? I wholly support, and will physically fight any officer or elected official to defend a troops right to wholly and very disrespectfully disobey any order which is not completely lawful, but if it's lawful, and you disobey it, I will equally support the maximum punishment permitted under military regulations, as enlisted troops, we voluntarily raised our right hands and swore to obey the orders of both the president, and the orders of the officers appointed over me, your one out is the whole Mei Lei thing, don't do that, otherwise, sometimes it's a bunch of bullshit, but you agreed to do it, so do it.
Concurrence. Retired senior Federal officer.
Interesting that it isn't just the military.
As a former 9 star General of the Amphibious Corps during the Revolution....it blows my mind how many vets with long drawn out stories can't spell the word "Sergeant" correctly...
Or don't want too...
@the_bureaucrat Maybe. But seeing a long-winded story with folks who misspell the names of ranks we all are supposed to know how to spell in boot camp, kinda pushed my B.S. meter toward one side.🤷♂️
Interesting video.
It was an interesting day.
So my SGM dad was just leveling my ass before my mom could get to me..... got it! 🤣
That’s one way of looking at it