OMB Warehouse Tork Zilla vs Gopowersports Juggernaut (Is There A Difference?) 🤔
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2024
- Hey guys FatBuddyCat here! Tonight I take the MM212PRO Deaf Duck Racing Edition for a high RPM romp-fest to compare the heavy hitting 30 series offerings from OMBWAREHOUSE.COM and GOPOWERSPORTS.COM. The Tork Zilla from OMB might seem like just a silver GPS Juggernaut but after trying them back to back there is more than looks that set them apart. I looked inside with a flashlight, the differences on the inside are more subtle but there is something going on indeed!
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Don't let the Facebook nazi's get to ya!!! These types of videos and comparisons are needed and appreciated!!!
Thanks so much! I try to keep everything honest and real. Hopefully I can get them opened up!
Thank you for the comparisons. I think I'll order the Torque Zilla and will let OMB know your comparison video is very informative.
Awesome! I'm still running a few of them myself.
I guess it all depends on what you are trying to achieve with that bike. Personal preference...I'm still new to this sport/hobby and I love it.
Absolutely!
@@fatbuddycatwhat type of spacers are you using on the crankshaft to push out the juggernaut
@@rafaelramos2299 3/4 ID steel bushings and 3/4 ID shims.
@@rafaelramos2299omb sells them.
This video’s Butta. Keep’em comin
I just finished doing a pov comparison of a stock 30 series and a super 30 series on a stock 212r......coming today!
Great video.You already know I’m getting one . Your bike is so fast.
Thanks! 212pro DDR Edition baby!!
Sweet. I never heard of the tork zilla til I saw this video, ordered me one last night 😁
I'd like to see you do this again since you cleaned the Jugger. There was a fair amount of belt in it when you took it apart.
I cleaned it and ran it again, I have 2 Juggernauts. What I can say is the Juggernaut seems to spin a little more freely, specially in the upper rpms. The Torkzilla was smoother in transition but seemed a little less rpm hungry up top.
Damn that bike is seriously fast! I want one!
This is a Tillotson 212R dialed in with just a billet rod, 22s and a 660 carb.....😏
I'd be really interested to see the insides of both of these.
Awesome stuff brother keep up the good work
Thanks!
By the way, I got my engine riser! Thank you! Putting it on and the TC this week.
Right on! Congratulations my friend!!!
Heck yeah. Just traded off my Go Kart for a 2021 Baja Warrior today. Already mint as can be just gotta add some mods to it 🤘
Mini bikes rule anyway!!
Nice video. You’re easy to listen to ;)
I get mixed reviews on my presentations but I try my best.
All the beans! Yes, all of them
Lol! Every time I rewatch a video I think to myself......"Surely that was not ALL the beans...." but in this video I didn't hold back much.
@@fatbuddycat I sensed the bean output was high
@@mklein5179 lol maybe I can add a bean release system to distract other racers in case I get it out on a track someday!!
@@fatbuddycat hmmm. I like where your head is. Run with that idea. Use your brain beans!
@@mklein5179 lol I try to the best I can!
Supringly to me before you say. I'm going to say the OMB sounded more like a dirt bike and smoother thru the acceleration and let off was quicker. It would be great for a flat track bike set up I bet.
Not to take anything away from the jauganot
@@scottbainetwisted_keel_adv5821 I just read your other comment, you are absolutely spot on!
The idle sounds better with the tork zilla. I do a lot more street riding so it seems it will be better for me with that later shift.
In my opinion it is worth it! They are on sale right now at OMBWAREHOUSE.COM!
@@fatbuddycat way ahead of you 😂 i posted another comment earlier. I have one on the way already! I have a stage 2/2.5 on my warrior and the 30 series driver sounds like it’s strangling it. So need the higher rpms. Thanks for the video. Keep it up 👍🏽 👍🏽
@@srcobra50Awesome, I'll stay with making great content then!
What! No way. F@#$ sakes, that bike is awesome!
That was a fun one!
Which one did you like better? JUGS' faster/longer engagement or TZ's Smoother Operation? Which option made the bike faster?
The jug seemed to promote a slightly higher rpm but I'm not sure it equates to more actual forward momentum. I've been riding the Torkzilla a lot and in most scenarios I'd prefer the smooth operator of the two. Most guys who race are on the fence and it's been rumored that Comet is still the best option. I don't personally have a Comet but since I build my engines I get it. Stuff can wear out fast when constantly between 4500-8500 rpm.
@@fatbuddycat Would be nice if the Comet CVT came with the upgraded clutch.
@@Buses2Bikes I'd try a Comet out but I currently don't have anything to stick it on. I have everything except a real Comet.
@@fatbuddycat do you mean genuine Comet and not the generic 30 series??
@@Canadian_Craftsman yup. I gotta try a Genuine Comet.
all right ok all right ok all right ok all right ok all right
It's not as easy as one may think. It's very easy to screw up and people love pointing out your flaws over and over. Lol this video has been on here a hot minute and I'm still putting in work even though my channel is completely unmonetized. It's not about me G.
Good video. I have the torqzilla. Can’t really compare it to the jug because I never had one. I was wondering if that engine is built… and if it is… the question…. How come you chose to stick with the stock style carb? Just wondering. Because I’m 2nd guessing if my 22mm nibbi was worth it changing from the stock predator carb
That engine had a billet rod, Aluminum flywheel and 22 pound springs with a bored stock carb. I have a couple round slide carbs as well but prefer the simplicity of the stock style carbs and linkages. Easier starts, the air filters stay on better and no Manifolds to worry about.
smooth
It sure is! I love both of these drivers but the Torkzilla does seem a little improved.
Great video!!!
Thanks, I almost lost the footage too!
@@fatbuddycat glad you didn’t! I got my ct200 up to 34 today. Mikuni and header
Great comparison bud I really want one bad now but I have some sad news coming I have to sell all bikes and the race nkart
What that’s crazy.I hope everything is ok with you Adam.
why tampa
well you know i still want that yellow mini bike
Oh man.
Just got me a moto 212 myself! Getting my motor next. Haven't decided on which motor I want. Thinking about one with a high output mag system to run lights is probably what I'll be doing.
Honestly, your best bet right now is the Ducar 212 and then running your lights from a remote/rechargeable source.
How much are you looking to spend on a engine? How much HP are you looking to get? If are looking for a great engine that'll shit & get and is built good, then I'd highly recommend the Tillotson 225cc, which is what I just bought a month ago. I tell you what, I could believe the power and how good it ran, I still can't a month later. Lol I have a Coleman CT200U-EX and it's so ridiculously fast that it's dangerous, and I have the Juggernaut on mine, I tell you what, it pops wheelies so easily, it's got so much torque it's insane, it's hard to control it and it I've had all kinds of different dirt bikes, you'd have to ride it to understand it! I paid $749 for mine.
@@roypatterson9910 been looking at three of the tilliotson motors from go power sports but wanting to run lights, would have to change coils to high output stator set up I guess. Doesn't have to be the hottest motor, just looking to be able to ride at night. Probably a stage two.
@@roypatterson9910 I keep checking in at GPS and it says the 225 is out of stock again....grrrr.
@@38possum how much noise can it make? Riding at night and making noise are two confronting obstacles if sound is of importance.
I would like to see a top speed test im thinking the juaganot has more on the top end and both seem to climb well
I believe you are correct. In my initial findings I came to that conclusion. However, the Custom Doodlebug has the Tork Zilla and brother, she's smooth and bad. I honestly like them both for different reasons. Check the Doodlebug out.
They both look like asymmetrical belt version clones of the Comet 340. The real question is whether the OMB version has a better engineered, more durable retractor (spider) and spline design than the GPS version. Open them up and let us compare!
Here's what's inside my Juggernaut: th-cam.com/video/3F3JWavZ7yI/w-d-xo.html
To me, they both look the same, but curious as to what the OMB one looks like inside. I guess, they're the same. The top of that one is flat, but that won't effect it's performance as the rollers don't travel across the flat side.
I remember that you made a really cool tool to get into one easier!
@@fatbuddycat yes, but it wasn't needed to open it up to get the belt on... stupid me!
@@LilPopeye lol, I thought you made that to get inside of the driver....oh well, I'm sure it's not the first engineering disaster to turn out useful! You do a great job my friend. The garage is coming along great!
They both look like asymmetrical belt clones of Comet 340. The real question is whether the OMB version has a better engineered, more durable retractor (spider) and spline design than the GPS version. Open them up and let us compare!
@@theoldfartschannel3692 I did! The spiders weighed the same and overall weight was with in a gram I believe.
This makes me want to switch to a thumb throttle. When riding heavy wrist throttle is not too comfortable.
It wears on you. I learned that again this weekend and will likely be switching back. We shall see...if I do I want something atv quality and not Chinese.
They need to release something like the Jugg/Tork for the 40 series. There's the 780 but thats a completely different driven pulley.
I feel like these are essentially a tweaked 40 series on a 3/4 bore to achieve more power through useable RPM ranges.....or something close to that.
I'd like to see one with a 16mm bore for the Predator 79cc. It would be a game changer for sure on those little motors. My Ultimate Torque Bug has a 79 with a modified 30 series and if I love that o can only imagine how much more I'd love it with a super 30 series driver! 😍
@@fatbuddycat They're similar but the 40 series is still able to handle more. The 40 series is rated for 18 horsepower while the Jugg/Tork are rated for 15. Granted the Jugg/Tork are rated for higher RPM. Considering a very mild 420 (stage 1 with no governor) is already around 19 horsepower it's fairly easy to exceed the power rating of even a 40 series. That being said people run 40 series on stage 2+ 420s all the time, they just use a kevlar belt. Still, it would be nice to have an alternative to the stock 40 drivers. Even the 780 is actually only rated for 18 horsepower for 4 stroke motors and 30 horsepower for 2 stroke. GoPowerSports doesn't make that distinction though, they just say 18-30.
HEY "F.B.C." I ENJOYED YOUR SHOW; I'M NOT SURE
BUT JUST FROM THE
SOUND I COULD HEAR
IT SEEMED THAT THE
TORQUE-ZILLA
REVRD OUT TO HIGHER RPMs :
THE VID LOOKED LIKE YOU HAD MORE SPEED,
AND AT THE END I THOUGHT I COULD HEAR BELT DRAGGING
AND RUBBING AT IDLE WITH THE
"JUGGERNAUT "
WHAT DO OTHER INTERESTED "FANS"THINK OF THIS? 🤗🤔🤓🤥🤥🍻🍺
This is absolutely accurate. There is something in the design of the Torkzilla that engages and disengages slightly different. I get more of a free spinning sensation from the Juggernaut that may achieve a higher rpm that would also be conducive to belt drag when returning to an idle. This particular mini bike is heavy and a bit abusive on belts.
i have a Coleman BT200X. clone torque converter, 60t rear sprocket. my max speed with built 196 was 45mph at 4400rpm. i now have a built 224 but its max is only 41mph at 4000rpm. think my loss of speed is the bigger cam in the 224 not getting up to rpm it needs. do you think going to a TZ/Jug will help get me to higher rpm to get to its torque curve? or should i put on a smaller drive sprocket? or jsut use a smaller cam?
Your 196 had smaller valves and possibly a tighter chamber that would have resulted in better compression for the size of your displacement and feed from your carberuretor. Another option would be to ramp your compression up to help carry the torque. Do you have a billet rod?
@@fatbuddycat the 196 had a billet rod and Honda flat top piston. But I found that the piston was still .040" in the hole, them .010" gasket. So it was probably low compression. Think chart showed like 8.25:1. It developed a terrible internal sound so I put in a +.020 rod and helped the compression. But it still made terrible noise, probably from a bearing despite them feeling fine. It is using a CS cam. It's using PVL flywheel with 4* key. 18lb springs
The 224 is billet rod and wiesco flat top piston that is basically zero deck. So it has a .027" gasket. It has a CM cam and I think 22lb spring. PLV flywheel with 4*key. Just last night I put on the Wildcat slide carb and a RLV silencer hoping to improve it. It now goes 43mph so little gain
The Torque Zilla and Juggernaut are both out of stock. So I ordered a 9 and 8 tooth drive sprocket.
Any other thing I should try? I'd be willing to swap the 196 head on the 224. Swapping the CM cam to CS not that they are huge cams.
@Buckin Bronco ok....I believe they have different profiles on the cam journals so that's off the table....tweak the driver! Aluminum weights and pink springs or stock weights with white springs. It'll get the torque curve up higher with an improved engagement.
@@fatbuddycat I was thinking about it. Just wasn't sure if it was worth doing springs or doing a Torquzilla or Juggernaut when they come back in stock. Thanks
@@fatbuddycat off the top of my head the CM cam on the 224 has a good amount more duration than the 196 CS cam is only difference. Max rpm of 7500 instead of 7000. Reason I think cam might be too big
That’s a sweet minibike dude,What engine is on this bike?
This is a Tillotson 212R with a Tillotson 660 carburetor, Billet Rod, 22 pound springs and the FBC Powah Hahn 2.0 exhaust.
I've noticed the jug on my 228 stroker hangs up and I have to ride the brake tell it disengage going to order one Friday OMB should give ya a deal I'm going to tell them you sent me
That is EXACTLY what I was explaining at the end. The Juggernaut spins so fast it tends to stay open, the Torkzilla has a much smoother transition.
@@fatbuddycat have you upgraded the spider in your jug to the stainless or still running the steel
Get out of here, you are clearly trying to do a sales pitch for the Torque Zilla, everything you have mentioned is a aimed at selling the Torque Zilla over the Juggernaut, probably because you were offered something! I don't have any problems with my Juggernaut, and I would recommend it to everyone! And how you mentioned that the bell housing is different on the juggernaut and that it sits down deeper inside, well, that has nothing to do with how it performs, when it comes down to it, clearly the Torque Zilla was copied off the Juggernaut, period!
They react differently. I've now run the nuts out of both of them and still get similar results.
What cam should I put on my tilloston 212e hemi
Are you looking to race? Clutch, jackshaft or torque converter? There are quite a few options.
I cruise and race sometime I’m running a clutch on my Coleman ct200u straight chain and I also have a torque converter that I might put back
@@ghikjedv5442 I've built two 196s with cs cams and they were ok...I'd look into a cm 265 though since your running a mikuni.
In run a 30mm pwk carburetor
So a hot 265 cam should be good
What’s the top speed ?
I'd have to check which engine that was but typically my bikes run around 40 maybe 50. Some go less than 30.
y u no rip with juggernaut on?
I've ripped on both them plenty by now. The difference that I noticed on my bikes is a free revving sense. Even though I might not be moving faster I sense more rpm. When letting off the throttle the higher rpm holds the engagement slightly longer. I'm running in a tight space where I'm off and on the throttle more versus running them flat out for miles.
The Tork Zilla is better
It is definitely a step in the right direction!
Tork Zilla $87.95, Juggernaut dropped price from $149.99 to $89......I will stick with OMB and am glad someone is putting GPS in check!!!!
OMB is offering a lot of value at that price! I like that people have a choice.
what you got done to that yellow bike its fast
That is a Tillotson 212R with a Billet rod, 22 pound springs and a Tillotson 660 carburetor. 60t rear sprocket, 10t drive. Billet intake, custom FBC Powah Hahn 2.0 exhaust.
@@fatbuddycat ok let me write that down
@@_BabyTK it's rumored that EC Carburetors will be restocking the 212r by September. Keep an eye out. In my opinion, it is the best factory race motor for the money.
@@fatbuddycat thx send a link for website
@@_BabyTK I just tried but that link was wrong I think.
What another viof watching somebody riding a mini bike😢😮.
I need a mega moto max 212cc
Gopowersports.com was selling them with shipping included last time I checked.
What motor setup
Tillotson 212R no governor, billet rod, 22s and a bored .660 carb. One of my favorite engines yet. Super reliable. Very easy to start.
@@fatbuddycat sounds good stock cam?
@@fatbuddycatrs or r haven’t seen a r
@@justinmanse2849 the 212r is like the Ghost's classy cousin.
Dude, it really makes me feel a bit irritated that you are saying things about the Juggernaut that's just not true, it's like you are being bias, that maybe you are going to get some kind of kickback for selling the Torque Zilla over the Juggernaut. Seriously, what did OMB offer you? Lol
What's not true?
I had a product to compare. Slapped it on and compared it against a similar product. I noticed something was slightly different and discussed my findings. I even noted that the Juggernaut seems to spin faster and would in most likelihood promote higher rpm and a higher top speed. That however does come with a drawback when coming into a corner hot and dropping to idle for braking. I thought it was carb related, it is not. It is the driver spinning so fast that it holds onto the impingement. The Torkzilla didn't do that.
I didn't even mention the noise I heard during the Juggernaut ride as not to question its origin. Both of my Juggernauts have a tendency to start making a weird sort of clicking noise when warmed up. The second run on the Torkzilla was to see if I could recreate the sound by going harder on the driver. I didn't hear it. Am I biased with OMB over GPS? I can tell you that GPS has great products and an amazing team but that doesn't mean they can takeover the world. I've reached out to Gopowersports, offered to try all kinds of things to showcase their products because I represent 80% of the people out there learning to work on their own minis and people tend to connect with someone who has the passion but not all the flashy shop tools or an education.