This is how it would be thought of in a physics lesson. It might help. Torque is a turning force. And you can use that force to turn, or revolve, something - like a screwdriver. And by applying torque, you can make that screwdriver turn a revolution. By doing so, you have completed 'work' (though a fairly small amount). Torque is measured in either Newton Metres, or Lbs Feet. In this explanation, we will just keep things simple - think of torque as brute strength. Horse Power is a method of measuring how much work is done in a given time. You need to know how much torque is applied, multiplied by how many revolutions per minute that torque is applied, to work out how much horsepower is achieved. This is the way I think of it... There are two piles of bricks, one hundred in each pile, and they need moving across a building site. A muscle man and a marathon runner challenge each other to a race. To see who can move a pile of the bricks the fastest. The chap with a lot of muscle and strength (we will think of him as having the strength to apply lots of torque) is built like Ronnie Coleman. He is big and immensely strong but heavy and quite slow as a result. He is quite capable of scooping up a whole load of bricks and carrying them. He can carry 20 bricks at once, but he SLOOOOWLY.... walks with them. He could move all the bricks in 5 trips and take 10 minutes. The seriously fit runner, who is light and fast on his feet (think of Mo Farrah) might only carry 2 bricks - 1 in each hand - and sprints across the ground. He has a low amount of muscle (or torque) but his legs can run (a form of revolution for our example) at a really fast rate. It takes the runner 50 trips to move the bricks. Also in 10 minutes Now if they both complete the task in the same time, then they have both done equal amounts of WORK (which can be measured in Horsepower or Kilowatts) and It's a draw. However, if Ronnie Coleman could manage to carry 25 bricks per trip, at the same pace, he does it in 4 trips, and in just 8 mins. He will have put out more horsepower. He carries bricks at a slow pace compared to Mo, but by applying more strength (or torque), each rpm is doing more effort. Then it's just a case of multiplying the two together. Torque X RPMs. However, Mo Farrah - still only carrying 2 bricks - refuses to be beaten!!! He hasn't got the strength (or torque) to carry more than 2 bricks, but he can pick up the pace instead. So he runs faster and his legs are a blur!!! . He finishes the task faster than Ronnie, let's say 7 mins. His body, although weaker at lifting, has now worked harder, because his low amount of torque, could be multiplied by very high revs. Think of a motorbike screaming along at 16000 rpms.... Lots and lots and lots of small, easy efforts, all added up to one huge effort to beat Ronnie. And he has now worked the hardest Mo Farrah's incredibly hard work (measured in horsepower) meant he was moving more bricks in a given amount of time. Keep this example in mind and think of your car engine. Horsepower is simply a way of measuring work done in a given time. It is not a unit of force, or a measure of how fast it can travel. The ability of an engine to provide power is achieved either by applying large amounts of torque at low revs, or applying low amounts of torque at high revs. In real life Ronnie Coleman is built like a truck and would most likely win the competition in our example. He would be more efficient as he wouldn't be wasting time picking up and putting down bricks 50 times. Plus Mo Farrah would probably have to run at some ridiculous speed like 40 mph. It's just not feasible. You couldn't expect a motorcycle to carry bricks - it's not designed for it. The truck is. An articulated lorry tractor unit or semi - truck (if you're in America), might have 600 or 700 horsepower but that is only an indication of how much work it is capable of. If comparing two vehicles to see which is faster, then look at POWER TO WEIGHT ratio. Although so many other factors affect performance: air drag, rolling resistance, a final drive ratio affects acceleration, fwd,rwd, awd, tyre traction.... etc etc etc. Its never simple. When office workers talk of how much work they have done that day - scientifically that's not really the case. It does not take a lot of horsepower or Watts to pick up a few pens, or shuffle some paper. The man who's outside, lifting and carrying all day long, has worked much harder. Something my boss could never understand when I tried telling him that office work is not real work! (sorry office workers. I mean no offence; that's physics!)
Martin S why did you have to stop reading? Horsepower is defined as the rate at which work is done - which is what Martyn M. said. I prefer this definition to saying that it is just “power” simply because it is more explanatory.
Absolutely fantastic.. but i have a doubt nd I can only get back after framing the question.. as I need to understand this concept on a whole nd then frame my doubt
Consider you have a wheel that you're moving by hand. How much energy does it take to move the wheel around one revolution (i.e. all the way around once, back to the starting position)? That's what torque describes. Now consider if you want the wheel to turn as fast as it can. You now have to put in extra energy, so that the wheel turns multiple times as fast as it can. That's what horsepower describes. Both torque and horsepower are describing energy, but with torque it doesn't matter how long it takes for the energy to be applied, and with horsepower it does matter.
Torque = force times distance. If you have a longer lever, you can apply more force to the other end of it. Horsepower = force times distance *over time.* The faster you want to do the work (like rotating the lever 1/4 turn), the less time you'll have to do it in, and the more horsepower you'll need. Conversely, the more horsepower you have, the less time it'll take you to do the work, and the faster you can do it.
Hey, I make science based 3D animations, and I'm planning to make an animation on this topic as I was also confused at times. If you would like to give me some pointers to what you would like in my animation, I would love to hear it!
I think it’s easier for cyclists to understand this because at some point you cannot press harder any faster, but you can drop a gear press just as hard much faster and make the vehicle go faster.
All very good explained, thank you, only one remark power is not torque x rpm, correct is force x rpm. But ultimately it’s same if leverage is same. In our case the difference of force between force created and force needed at the shaft is multiplied by rpm giving the reserve power that our car has at a certain point
Hey, I make science based 3D animations, and I'm planning to make an animation on this topic as I was also confused at times. If you would like to give me some pointers to what you would like in my animation, I would love to hear it!
I think anyone who understands torque and is seriously trying to understand the relevance of power should just focus on understanding Mechanical Advantage (gear ratios and wheel diameters). When you really understand what gear ratios and wheel diameters do, suddenly it will all click - why power is so meaningful. For a vehicle, power is just the amount of forward push for the speed it is currently moving. In slightly more technical terms, power at any moment is forward thrust at that moment times forward speed at that moment. Algebraically rearranged: Forward thrust at any moment is equal to power at that moment divided by forward speed at that moment. And you should understand what units are;)
@@drienkm power is just that. for all intent and purposes, gearing can be ignored if you know the output at any given time of a race. the higher the hp the motor is making at that moment, regardless of gearing. will tell you what or who will accelerate more. I agree with everything you said. and people that do get hung up on gearing and tq, havent really put it all together in their head yet. these are probably the same people that will say, hp sells car and tq wins races or hp is how fast you hit the wall, tq is how far you go through it. or some other nonsense.
Think of it like this: Torque is how much weight you can bench press, horsepower is how many reps you can perform with that weight in a certain time frame. EDIT: I tried to keep it simple by mentioning "time frame" because you have to have some way of measuring how fast the weight is being moved in the example I've given. Which is confusing some people on RPM's vs horsepower. Think of your RPM's as being your rep count. And your horsepower is how fast you can move the weight to that rep count. For example..if you have two bodybuilders that have the same torque but different horsepower, it's going to take the one with a higher horsepower less time to get to 10 reps than it will the bodybuilder with the lower horsepower. Even though they are both lifting the same amount of weight and doing the same amount of reps.
@@dukechangwang8017 Your question is an ironic conundrum funny enough. Horsepower is kind of like your muscle fatigue. It determines how fast your engine gets up to it's maximum torque and can maintain it's peak potential. If you have low horsepower and high torque, you'll stall out under a heavy load, because you don't have enough horsepower to get to peak torque and maintain it. Just like not having enough energy to do more reps, let alone more reps at a faster pace.
@@dukechangwang8017 As long as you have the torque to move the weight of the machine to begin with. But take motorcycles for example (inline engines), they have high Hp and lower Tq. That's why they accelerate quick and maintain speed so well, they reach their peak torque numbers faster and have the ample horsepower to maintain it. They just don't need the Tq due to their lightweight.
Jason, you’ve just answered the question that I’ve had for years! I knew of torque, I knew of horsepower, but couldn’t determine how they intermingled on a power curve. Mind blown today when you pulled it all together
you still dont understand. He missed the most important thing lol. Imagine a same experiment on a hill. Car with higher torque will win.. Why? Once you understand that than you understand enough to explain to others!
Rewatched some of your early videos after being a viewer of about two years and the progress of how you come across on camera is incredible. Practice makes perfect and you can tell that you’re far more comfortable on camera now than you once were. Long time fan, love the videos.
I'm on a 32 inch monitor and at 4K it feels like you're sitting and explaining this right in front of me in person while I'm sitting on the opposite side of the table. Love the quality and explanation!
Thanks for watching everyone! I think one question that may come up after watching this is "Why does maximum acceleration happen at peak horsepower, rather than peak torque?" It's a fair question, because in a single gear ratio, peak acceleration (the force pressing you back in your seat) occurs at peak torque. I have a video explaining this in great detail: th-cam.com/video/cb6rIZfCuHI/w-d-xo.html Edit: Also, if you're confused about the equation for Horsepower in this video not including 5,252, I did this to simplify the video. 5,252 is a scaling factor only appropriate for imperial units, it is not useful if you use kW or N-m, so it's inappropriate to use 5,252 in a general equation. I will include a video in the future explaining exactly where (through derivation) 5,252 comes from.
Jason, if torque is the force multiplied by the gearing, why isn't the torque figure consistent across the rev range? Regardless of RPM, you are applying the same amount of force throughout a given gear.
So essentially, the force being applied is not actually consistent across the rev range due to the ignition timing, intake/exhaust pressure, valve timing, and such? Meaning that in theory, if an engine had the same volumetric efficiency across the rev range, then peak torque would be constant in a given gear?
Engineering Explained so for accelerating as fast as possible in a race, one should ideally shift gears at max RPM instead of the at the point where torque is highest? Is that done in practice?
That makes sense. I was thinking in terms of what gets sent to the wheels, but that's just based on the transmission. Torque at the flywheel would be the same regardless of the gear selected.
There's no denying the fact that this is the most simplest explanation one can find regarding the difference between torque and horsepower. Spectacular work Jason!
Explosive Gaming a Bugatti veyron has more power than any tractor but can't carry all them bricks like a tractor with only 10% the horsepower of a veyron.
The confusion comes from the inclusion of gears in the simplified equation. Look at tractors and their high torque and low hp engines. Look at why hot-rodders turbocharge their cars. Early HP doesn't necessarily translate into quicker acceleration, but early and consistent torque does. Work performed is such a simple statement. Using your long handled wrench as an example - you get more torque with it. Make one revolution every minute. Now every 30 seconds. Now every 10 seconds. Getting tired? Now every 1 second - generating the same torque but doing more work - hence higher horsepower. Now if you add gears, you can magnify your torque and your horsepower as you see fit, carefully trying to find the right balance with your human engine. If you add a 10 foot extension to your wrench, you'll get super high torque, but very little horsepower as its a lot of work to go one revolution. If you shorten it, it will be harder to get up to speed, but you can spin it much faster. This is why we have multiple gears; so we can have usable torque and HP. Now if Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson takes over for you and does the turning, he can generate more torque than you. He may not be able to spin it much faster, but when you factor in gears, his torque will spin a gear faster, doing more work and hence more horsepower. I hope I didn't mess up too bad with that explanation. And we haven't even got to engine torque vs torque at wheels....
I think the reason so many people struggle with this (myself included) is that it is ultimately NOT simple. Much as I enjoy EE's videos, it's possible that an engineer is not the best person to explain it ;-)
agree, what is needed is a Physicist, but he/she would just say the same thing as in this video: Horsepower is just the rate that work is done HP=dW/dt, and Torque is T= F x R. Now do you understand?
@@Hank520Tube I think layman's terms is necessary... How I have remembered it... HP... The basic power for level road...how much power the car has. Torque... Capability of the vehicle to move up an inclination... (Keep the tyres rotating even when it's a climb..)
@@pathania3377 I've usually thought about it as HP is the speed a car can go while Torque is only really to effect how easy it is to burn out. Torque can help you get to top speed faster but isn't the deciding factor in how fast a car can go which is what HP helps to decide. However, there is a steep diminishing returns on it. 200hp = 150mph, 700hp = 200 mph, 1,600hp = 300 mph. So high torque is best for burn out competitions, drifting, and getting your car up to top speed quickly but doesn't help give you any meaningful data on what that top speed will be. I think...
Horesepower - is simply that- like Voltage it known as potential energy - or the capacity to do work - lets say you have a horse and then give it the capacity of 20 horses - what do you want to do with it ? Speed you along at breakneck speed or pull a plaugh ? Torque is actually called rotational force - so it IS force ( mass x acc ) just going round - think of it as a fireman uncoiling his hose across the ground. or a wheel of a particular sixe and weight rolling until it hits another object. Finally the greater the force the greater the capacity to do work, and that includes accelleratio - The formula for force says force is equal to mass (m) multiplied by acceleration (a). If you have any two of the three variables, you can solve for the third. Force is measured in Newtons (N), mass in kilograms (kg), and acceleration in meters per second squared ( m/s2 ).
Here’s how to consider electricity. Picture your wire as a garden hose. Current is the rate water can go from one end to the other. Voltage is the pressure of the water or force pushing the water. Wattage is the volume coming out the other end in a certain time. Need more water with less pressure? Get a bigger hose and the same pressure gets you more water filling your pool faster. Need lots of wattage/water through the same hose? Crank up the voltage\pressure. The result of either is more water. Byproduct of either is more chance of a blowout so operate within the limits of your hose/wiring.
crank up the voltage/pressure too much? your wire/hose gets destroyed. They indeed work the same way and to understand electricity i've always pictured it like this
saytammm yeah, literally the “flow of electrons through a conductor ” little particles actually flowing. People say to me you can’t see them, I say...can you see two hydrogen and one oxygen molecule? No but that doesn’t mean it isn’t there. With a big microscope you can
What he said was: Δώστε μου ένα μέρος για να σταθώ και θα μετακινήσω ακόμα κι ολόκληρη τη Γη. Which translates to: Give me a place to stand and I will even move the whole Earth. No levers or fulcrums or worlds, just a place and the earth, and the whole thing of course relates to levers. :-)
Torque is a rotational force - simples ! Think of a motorcycle on the wall of death going at 50mph - then put something in it's way - same as being hit at 50 mph on a flat road - I think were people get confused is the power and speed. Force is the potentional to do work - how you harness and use it varies - Atic vehicles have some of the greates power on the road..mmh... Formula 1 cars have 1.6L engines....which would you like to be hit by.......an F1 car doing 150mph or an artic doing 50mph - I remember my old days in scholl playing rugby - I was always told don't shy away from the inpact of a tackle the result will be worse - ie standing still.
If I understand the two concepts (horsepower and torque), I think that the following statements are true: 1. Torque is a component of horsepower. 2. Horsepower cannot exist without torque. 3. Therefore, to argue over which is more important is a false dilemma, because one is a subset of the other. While horsepower requires and utilizes torque, horsepower is a more comprehensive measurement.
Also explain why diesel have more torque than gasoline for same engine size... Greater compression ratio > longer connecting rod > larger crank radius = larger distance = more torque 😊
Man, I swear, between you and ChrisFix, I get a good dosage of car related knowledge, you two guys and a few out there are really professional when it comes to stuff like this, thanks for helping us out with these amazing vids🤘
Sergio Bustamante Sergio I'd rather not spam here, just search and look up here on YT for ChrisFix, a lot of stuff will come up, he's got very clean, well explained methods for doing a lot of stuff on cars if you're a do-it-yourself kind of guy, hence why I mentioned both channels, these guys are very methodic yet dynamic when it comes to explaining, never a dull/boring moment!
My brain runs on horse power and my body moves because of torque that's simple and that's all I could understand if I try to put too much pressure to understand the difference between torque and horsepower my brain and body will loose their horsepower and torque. 🙂🤗😁👍
I think this video will be easier to understand if you somewhat know how gears work. And knowing how engines work. Search some videos on the topic. It will definitely help.
Brilliantly explained. Finally I can confidently say I could understand the basic fundamentals and connect why certain cars move faster inspite of having a lower capacity engine horse power.
I'm very mechanically inclined and have heard the HP v Torque explained in about 10 different ways. I still don't understand it outside of "torque is how much load can be hauled" and "HP is how fast you can haul it."
It took me a minute too. I have an F350 6.0L diesel and a 3.6L Jeep Wrangler. Both rated at ~300hp. So why can’t my Jeep pull a 20,000lb trailer even though it’s the same power? Well, in theory, it could. My Jeep only makes 300hp at like 6500rpm and maybe 100 at 2000rpm. I would need a 15 speed gear box just to be able to get that trailer moving, and once it is moving, I would be red lining the engine and could not maintain that power. The diesel can provide 300hp at 2000 rpm, so I can get it moving pretty easily and not red line my engine doing so. What you quoted isn’t true technically, but it is practically. You can gear 300hp to put that power where you want it (optimized top speed or high load, pick one) but practically, you build your engine for it. A 15L semi engine is very high torque. Can probably make 300hp at 500rpm. It can drag 80,000lbs up a hill all day, and that 2000lb engine is a drop in the bucket for the rest of the truck. Now take a 700hp street McLaren. Most of the time it’s driving at road speeds and only needs 100hp. But when on the track and it wants 700hp, it can put it down in short bursts (at 8000rpm). That 4L engine would explode if you asked it to maintain full load, plus it would require a loooot of gears to have that power at a starting speed. And you would burn through clutches every 1000 miles. The penalty of a high torque engine. Is while that 6.0L engine can make that power at only 2000rpm, it redlines at 3500. It’s too large to be able to get the rpm improvement to get higher peak power. Ya, if you could spin that same engine at 7000rpm, that would produce hilarious power, but the bigger pistons and longer bore couldn’t handle it. Hope that makes it slightly more clear than mud.
@@ctbrahmstedt this video is not about reliability, overheating, displacement. its just about power, torque and acceleration. torque can be multiplied with gearing, horsepower can't, period. how many gears you need is not about having huge torque, it is about what is your lowest gear (so you can climb any hill at least in first and not get stuck, and start comfortably in first without frying your clutch ), highest gear (for highway cruisng) and how wide is your powerband so you can shift beetween gears without having a huge drop in power. l this is why even trucks with huge engines and enormous torque still have a lot of gears (10 to 18)
@@ctbrahmstedt Do the high torque engines make their greatest power at peak RPM? For example, the engine you describe at the end. It makes a lot of power at 2000 RPM but does it make more power at its max 3500 RPM?
@@geemy9675 And those large trucks are limited in maximum RPM so they need larger gears to reach higher speeds (and all the gears to get to those speeds).
A good explanation I understood: You can leverage torque, meaning the force applied will be greater but the lenght of the leverage arm will increase linear. So the power is always the same, as long as you move your arm in the same speed aa before. When you increase the speed you will increase the power, while the torque applied stays the same. In ICE cars its not only the speed which increases but also the torque, at least at low rpms. Thats why you get a very step power increase. Then torque will start to drop, but not as fast as speed (rpm) increases, so power will still increase. This explaination will give you the answer, why a human cannot have the same hp as a car although with a large leverage arm the torque applied by human hand could be greater: you cannot do it with 7000 revolutions per minute
Here's what I got: Horsepower is just the rate at which the torque from the explosions are applied. Higher rpm, more explosions providing force, more power. Longer connecting rods will increase torque through leverage but will move slower, so the overall horsepower will remain the same. Torque increases with rpm because at low rpm, there is less fuel (and less force from the explosion) with every revolution of the pistons. At high rpm, much more fuel is needed to keep the speed up so there is more torque. Torque drops off at high rpm due to friction and the limited speed of combustion itself; the explosions don't have enough time to finish before the piston bottoms out. Like you said though, the revs still increase which compensates for the loss in torque, so horsepower still increases albeit not as quickly. Higher displacement engines can burn more fuel per revolution and thus provide more power/torque (and longer strokes can give combustion more time to complete). An important point of the video is the note on gearing. Many claim that horsepower doesn't matter and torque is what you feel, which is true to some extent, but it is misleading in that the power can be manipulated to increase that torque. Engines with less horsepower and naturally high torque can't be manipulated to produce more torque than a naturally high-horsepower low-torque engine could. This also means that torque at the wheels can be completely different from torque at the crank depending on the gear ratios being used. This is a very fascinating concept to me and I'm glad I can finally understand it.
My take away is that stated torque figures are basically irrelevant, however they measure it, because torque at the rear wheel is mediated by gearing and peak effective torque is actually defined by peak hp. Is that right? He didn't say that but it sounds like that. Which would mean engine torque stats are useful purely to create a torque curve that demonstrates power distribution / feel through the rev range. (And this graph is practically, if not literally, scale invariant.) In which case... Wtf do stated torque figures come from and why does the industry keep insisting they're relevant?
@@lukas6610 the power curve is another thing alltogeather. Something people will allways say is "2 strokes have no torque" Its not true, they have a lot more torque than their 4 stroke counterparts, but they *feel* like they have no torque because their power curve is very peaky.
You can only choose 1 torque or power. You cant have it all. If you want top speed like highway races choose power. If you want to win races in a print choose torque. Thats why a Lambo cant beat Tesla in a 400m sprint because of this matter.👍
Think of torque as how hard your pistons are pushing with each crank, and horsepower is the combined energy of each push over a fixed period of time. The more times that torque can be applied, the higher your power output will be. The faster your engine turns over, the harder it is for the engine to apply torque, since the pistons are already in motion. It’s like trying to hit a baseball which is already moving away from you. That’s why torque tapers in the high rev range, but power continues to increase, since you have so many cranks per minute!
CitizenEJ257 He was definitely a little contradictory. He stated you "feel" the most acceleration at peak torque but then explicitly stated peak acceleration happens at peak power. By definition, accelerating faster at peak power means that would also cause the most g-force, aka acceleration that you would feel. Not sure what his motivation was there.
Took you two sentences to explain what this video doesn't clearly state, even though it should be the sole purpose of the video. I'm at a loss how someone can spend 7 minutes repeatedly contradicting himself and mixing terms, and get 10k likes. And you just removed the contradiction in one paragraph. Good job, sir, you should apply for EE's ghost writer.
HOLD UP. So what comes first, torque or horsepower? How does one create the other or are they separate? This video helped me understand much better than the donut media one!!!!!!!!!!
@@ares6949 weird name. Firstly, we need to understand that torque is force multiplied by distance. Torque in an engine is how much force the pistons can exert so that the wheels can spin. The longer the distance between pistons and crankshaft, the more torque so that the wheels can spin. Horsepower is the times the piston revolves (like 500 Rounds per Minute etc.) and is determined by torque times RPM (power = work done/time) and so more the torque and RPM more the Horsepower. Overall you need more torque to get more horsepower so that a car accelerates faster and is more Eco-Friendly.
torque is how strong that piston push, horse power is torque multiply how fast it can rev. A big engine has stronger torque and can pull better than small engine at the same rpm. A small engine can get more horse powers by revving at higher rpm, but it can not exceed its torque limit for its size (unless turbo). The S2000 engines can rev really high and make 240 horses, but has only 150 torque, even as it revs higher, it will only make more horse power, the torque is still the same.
Omg! I am so thankful to you. I’m a 54 yr old woman with no knowledge about cars and their inner workings, but you explained it so well that I understood it right away! 😊
I love you man!!!!!! 46 years old man here always had that question in the back of my head but never actually asked anyone. Today out of nowhere i stumbled on your video by accident and watched it . It is so amazing the experience i mean, when you meet a true educator that have this ability and charisma to explain complicated maters to people that have no clue or any idea about the specific subject. After all when you cant explain something to a 5 year old it means you dont truly know that something! Love from Sweden keep up the good work!
Yeah baby !! ... Finally, torque and horsepower explained simply. I'm linking this video to my upcoming episode of blowing up see-through engine, match made in heaven !!!, you'll see what I'm talking about Jason.... Fantastic !
To me the most simple way to think about it is that power is torque being delivered at some rate. Nothing more, nothing less. People think of power and torque as two different things and argue about which is better but the fact is that by definition power is simply torque in motion at some rotational speed. An engine's torque by itself can do no work - it has to be delivered at some rate in order to do work, regardless if that is moving a vehicle, spinning a generator, powering a machine, or whatever. This is why an engine's power rating is what determines how much work it can do in a given amount of time, not its torque rating.
A great explanation (after multiple rewinds). I’d love to see a follow up video of this in practice - building on the concepts explained with a couple of vehicles with varying hp & tourque. Dare I say... factor in electric engines too?
Physics is quite confusing. Here's a reply I gave to a comment that came a bit after yours, maybe it'll help: We [racers] do. We spend as much time at peak power as possible. This means as low a gear as possible. First gear gives 50% more acceleration than second gear. Second gives 33% more than third. And so on and so forth. Another note, engines aren't most efficient at peak torque. That's where peak intake air velocity occurs, and you cram the most air and fuel into the same volume. So, you get the most energy for that particular explosion, meaning peak torque. And there's more, lots more. Here's a reply I have to the comment just after yours, maybe it'll help some: Well, power equals force times velocity, not force times acceleration. You're forgetting that doubling your velocity makes four times the energy. Weird, right? So, even if power peaks a little later in the revs than torque, it is still directly proportional to rpm, not proportional to the square of rpm. Also, you have to take the area under the curve, you know, calculus (whatever that is, I forget) to get the total change in energy of the system. Long story short, peak acceleration occurs at peak torque. Here's the clincher. First gear gives the most leverage, and the most acceleration of any gear. Second gear gives less acceleration, but more speed. However, the engine is still making the same power in second gear as it did in first. Weird, right? But, since power equals force times velocity, we see that force decreaes because velocity has increased. Less force, less acceleration. So, second gear compared to first gear is the same idea as a higher rpm compared to a lower rpm. Ah ha!
I couldn’t have asked for a more informative yet succinct video with visual representation too. Instantly subscribed as you turn complex theories into fun examples that are easy to understand!! Thank you ☺️
As a former motor head we always said torque gets you off the line power makes you finish. I been a Auto tech since 1996 and what the automotive industry has done with small displacement engines is truly amazing. The power numbers from 4 cyl engines is truly amazing.
Camaro's with a turbo 4cly making 275hp and 295lbs, I wish we had four bangers like that when I was in HS. I'm pretty sure it would beat the 350 from the 80's and 90's.
I like this video a lot more than your others. Don't get me wrong I love all your videos, but it's nice to understand an entire video. Even if I understand your math based videos I can't apply that knowledge in real life, this I can apply to grasp a better understanding of how my car is working when I'm driving my standard car. That will help a lot
Darth Strakh I totally agree I love these videos, it's clear this guy can blow our minds with knowledge. He should start a channel "Engineeringfordummies"
so, a funny story here, I was trying to make hummus when the blender gave up on me, so being the nerd I am, I was trying to understand what exactly happened... here I am 3 hours later deep in researching power and Torque I just wanted some hummus!!
Maybe this will help to some of you that are still confused: more engine torque (like with diesel engine) doesn't neccessarily equal faster acceleration. Take one transmission ratio and you'll accelerate very fast, but only up to a lower speed. Take the other transmission ratio and you'll accelerate slower, but up to a higher speed, so it basically all comes down to power, which is torque at a certain rpm level. Diesel usually has more torque, but it's not an advantage, if it only lasts throughout a short rpm range. You can use appropriate transmission with petrol engine and get high torque, like with diesel, but it will only last throughout a short rpm range (as with diesel, obviously). So, for higher performance, take something with more hp - what good is 1000nm or whatever many hundred lb.ft of torque if the engine only produces 10hp (spins slowly)? Yes, petrol has lower torque, but also spins faster, so it's the rpm AND torque (or power) that matters. You can have as long of a wrench as you want and be able to exert as much torque as you want, with it, but it'll take a long time for you to screw that bolt in, with that long wrench, so unless the screw turns really hard (large transmission ratio), you don't need all that torque, but rather higher rpm and lower torque (achievable with smaller wrench). As I've said before, go for the hp (not counting the weight of the car and bunch of other variables), and the transmission will also make a difference - how many gears, how fast you can shift them and what top speed the transmission is geared for.
See it this way. Large gear ratio means longer lever, more torque. So it makes it easier for you to actually move a stuck nut/bolt. But when you have momentum on your side in a car,(when the said nut/bolt is not stuck and is well oiled), the longer lever in only increasing the distance you need to travel with your arm to make the nut spin one full circle. Imagine opening a jar lid or a nut/bolt, with a lever that is 10 meters long. Imagine how big of a circle you'd have to run to make the lid spin just one circle.
I came back across this video; many automotive reviewers should watch it to under stand torque is not the end of all things when they are not completed off the track to start with. Great explanation!
I think explicitly stating (or showing how) you can compensate for less torque with gearing but you can't compensate for less hp with anything helps clarify.
I had that confusion for a long time , I asked my brother to explain but I still had the confusion ... You have done a great job of in explaining , now I have no confusion! Thanks!
Funny enough, my favorite real world example of why power is so important involves my experience using two different diesel trucks to tow the same heavy trailer up the same long grade in MT. Spoiler - the one with more power towed better. The truck with more torque made that torque at a such a low RPM that it required a much higher gear ratio at the same road speed as the other truck, meaning less wheel torque = less pull (less power).
Torque is an ingredient of power. The other is RPM. Low torque high rpm is equally fast as high torque low rpm. Sometimes high torque engine cars go faster. When that happens those cars actually produce more energy during the acceleration test so that means the average power was definitely higher.
some late thoughts. 'torque is newton-meters is force is power is hp is torque'. by that i mean that the output energy of a car engine is the result of a Series of processes. then, that energy is used in a weird way. in that, there is NEGATIVE MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE at the ground. why is this true. the Radius of a wheel is, maybe, five times the size of the radius of the final gear, in the differential. cheers
Empirical data would show otherwise. It was fun to watch the real world scenario where a 16hp Case steam tractor out-pulled an 800hp John Deere Power puller. Power is only one factor in the real world. Tractive effort, weight, the rigidity of the chassis. And the list goes on.
Tractive effort is an old term not used much any more except among the steam folk. Steam engines (unlike you apparently) aren’t easily bent out of shape.
I always remember on our local dual carriageway on my cheap and nasty long stroke 250cc CZ motorbike sedately chugging past a Yamaha 125cc which had probably double the horsepower with the other rider lying flat on the tank trying to make way in to the head wind. A good demonstration of torque and a rare and memorable memory at not feeling at the bottom end of motorcycle ownership.
Great video. I think there are two errors: 1_ 1:44 - If I move this car from here to here I've done a certain amount of work. Well not really, specially if you move it horizontally (thus not gaining any potential energy) The energy you win is in the object moving at a certain speed (kinetic energy), Kinetic energy formula is K = 1/2 . m . v2. The more speed the more energy the car has. So you can explain power as the capacity to reach a certain velocity (energy level) in lesser time, and that's acceleration, as simple as that. 2_ The force pressing against your seat will be greatest at peak torque. Incorrect, it's at peak acceleration as F = m . a, mass being a constant (you). So your seat will be applying peak force to accelerate your body at peak acceleration (not torque) and this is also mentioned later in the video so there is at least an inconsistency. Peak acceleration happens at peak power as it's the moment where the engine can produce more work, in this case by accelerating the mass of the car (augmenting kinetic energy) I hope I didn't get it wrong or made it even more confusing.
Well, power equals force times velocity, not force times acceleration. You're forgetting that doubling your velocity makes four times the energy. Weird, right? So, even if power peaks a little later in the revs than torque, it is still directly proportional to rpm, not proportional to the square of rpm. Also, you have to take the area under the curve, you know, calculus (whatever that is, I forget) to get the total change in energy of the system. Long story short, peak acceleration occurs at peak torque. Here's the clincher. First gear gives the most leverage, and the most acceleration of any gear. Second gear gives less acceleration, but more speed. However, the engine is still making the same power in second gear as it did in first. Weird, right? But, since power equals force times velocity, we see that force decreaes because velocity has increased. Less force, less acceleration. So, second gear compared to first gear is the same idea as a higher rpm compared to a lower rpm. Ah ha!
1_ In real world there is friction so he is totally right. It is work to overcome friction over time. Power is also force (friction) times velocity... don't mix up real world with highschool physics ;) he is totally right in this environment about this statement. 2_ In this point he is also correct. The problem here are the gears. If you only have one gear the force you feel is exactly proportional to the torque curve. Of course you can shift down one gear to increase the acceleration(force) but in this Gear you have the same curve which is proportional to the force you feel. That's also the reason why people think torque matters and buy diesel cars... Diesel engines often have peak torque and peak power at very similar rpm. This feels like more power. (though it isn't)
They allready teach that BS in the schools, but its entirely wrong, because using gears you only manipulate the torque, an engine can only pull up to its maximum torque, after its quite weak and useless, so EEs explanation sucks because you can not get more torque out of the engine even if you manipulate with gears. most engines in cars run to maximum 8000 rews, so the only way to maximize horsepower is to maximize torque, end of story.
@@Deutsche_1 yes you're wrong and arrogant too. You can manipulate the torque by changing the dimensions of connecting rod (rod which connects Piston to crankshaft) since Torque is directly proportional to force and *DISTANCE* That's common high school knowledge And you're arrogant because you don't know much but is still giving wrong validations to someone who's more right than you
@@shrijanbuchasia7366 So explain how you want to make more power when you are limited to 8000 rews.? Arrogant or not, you cant defeat the truth, but apparently you cant handle the truth, and its easy to be arrogant when academic calculations is in the game, because like my previous text, academics learn the wrong things now a days, they are missing out on the basics.
So many people will understand this practical/theoretical analysis much easier than some of the mathematical explanations he uses in most videos 😁 this makes is very easy to understand though. Great work 🖒
Power is the Volume of Torque. At the peak power RPM an engine produces more torque VOLUME than it does at peak torque RPM. Highest torque at the wheels at any given vehicle speed occurs at peak power. At any vehicle speed the engine RPM at peak torque dictates a gearing ratio. In order to raise engine RPM to peak power but equal that specific vehicle speed a higher multiplication is required. This higher multiplication generates a HIGHER torque at the wheels. This is why a vehicle accelerates quickest at peak power and not peak torque in a CVT equipped vehicle.
Torque has to do with how heavy a car the engine can push up a slope. Horsepower has to do with how quick the engine can push a car up a slope. Torque is mostly proportional with displacement so the bigger the displacement, the more torque you get and the car carries itself easier. The more horsepower, the faster it pushes you around.
Heres a wierd way i might be able to explain. Blow air out of your lungs fast. Like youre blowing a balloon away. Then cover your mouth while doing it. You stop the air flow, and your lungs can no longer push the air out. That's horsepower. All speed, low mass. Now blow slowly. But sturdily. Cover your mouth. But force that slow air through, even moving your hand. That's torque. All mass, low speed. What i have a hard time understanding is how an engine can produce alot of one but little of the other, WITHOUT gears changing it up.
@@davecrupel2817 That's a weird analogy. I don't think i get it. But I do can answer your question. Let's take an example, yamaha r1. Producing 200hp and peak torque of 114nm Engine power is literally torque * rpm. r1 can rev up to 14000 rpm, thus POWAA.
This was the best explanation I've heard and I think I'm pretty confident in my understanding of the relationship between torque and horsepower now. Thank you so much
Thank you really good explanation. The leverage used by Lamborghini with that gearing seems to be an example with the hurrican. I don't know if this makes sense or whether it's true... First three gears are shorter and rev very quickly, then the fourth gear is taller but it's able to utilise the force at work (engine power + inertia). Some cars seem to have too tall a final drive gear. My old 82 skyline's 5th gear was useless. It seemed that there wasn't enough power to "force multiply'. Give me a lever big enough....
Very well explained. Next video remember to make your imaginary graphs in the opposite direction so that when you superimpose the graph during editing it appears that your hands are following the actual graph line ;-)
What confuses people is that they think they can "feel" torque. If you have 2 cars like say a dart 1.4t and a dart 2.0 na. They have the exact same peak hp number of 160 but the 1.4 turbo has ~40 lb-ft of torque more. It is quicker and feels quicker because it has more hp in the lower rpms while the 2.0 has the same peak hp but much less hp in lower rpms. If you had a cvt or at least a 10 speed transmission that kept the engines in their peak power they would be exactly the same speed. However when most of us drive we drive at partial throttle 2-4k rpm, not at 6.5k thus we feel the greater hp the car with more torque has. TLDR Cars with more torque have more low end horsepower then cars with less torque but similar peak hp
Great of you to note this. So if we stick to the philosophy that power is ultimately what we want (although torque is still important, we not too concerned about it), we need to get away from the idea that only *peak* power is important. What your are hinting at and what people need to consider is the is the area underneath the power curve. The greater that area, the faster the car can accelerate.
Exactly, peak horsepower is meaningless. It's the available horsepower at that particular rpm that's important. A car will accelerate the fastest at peak horsepower. Torque is what determines how long it will take you to reach that peak horsepower. Engines with more torque will allow you to reach its peak horsepower (i.e. peak acceleration) faster.
Tanah Merah That's not right. Within a particular gear, peak torque is where the engine is most efficient and has the greatest acceleration. Torque is a force and angular acceleration is a component of it. When you bring a gearbox into the equation you can get better acceleration at peak power by gearing down.
This is what I was looking for. The difference in torque between the e92 BMW 335i (twin turbo inline 6 cylinder) vs the e92 BMW m3 (v8 na) where the 335i has more torque but the m3 has more horsepower.
Its so nice to finally see a video that really clarifies the difference so well. I think a lot of people have trouble grasping the concept that torque can be supplimented by gear ratio if the car is making power high enough into the rpm range. I also liked the part explaining how peak torque is the highest instantaneous acceleration *for a given gear* which really explains why high torque cars can feel a lot faster than they are because of the brief shove that happens in the low range of each gear but doesn't continue into higher speeds. Great video!
HP. increases with torque in gasoline engines.Higher torque higher HP. If HP. is so important why is the buzz about electric motors having instant full torque. Never hear about the HP. ratings.Yes electric motors when built right will smoke a gas engine.Some times literally when electric motor goes.All torque no HP. you have a diesel. All HP. no torque you have an F1 car.Gotta find that magic middle ground.
One important thing left out is torque at the wheels vs. torque at the crankshaft. Torque at the wheels alone is what determines how fast the car accelerates. Horsepower is the ability to supply that torque at higher speeds. So the car with 200 lb-ft of torque will beat the one with 100 lb-ft until it doesn't have enough power to supply 200 lb-ft any more (assuming the torque is measured at the wheels, through the transmission).
srsly, torque is the only thing accelerating your car. acceleration is what causes u to get pushed back in seat. thats why him saying peak horsepower causes.mote acceleration while peak torqur causes u to get pushed back in ur seat the most makes no sense.
I was waiting for this to be said in the video (car with 200 TQ will out accelerate the 100 TQ for a certain amount of distance/time). Question I have is why manufacturers use 5252 rpm for their crossover point for TQ and HP?
@@gbarton800 Manufacturers don't "use" 5252rpm as the crossover point. That's just where it is when using lb-ft and hp. 1hp= 33,000ft-lb/min 33,000 / 2π = 5,250 5252 is more precise but 5250 is convenient and accurate enough.
Nightjar on the gate thanks for the response and explaining the math - that makes sense. By the way, I meant 5250 (fat fingered?). Thanks again! - What’s your take on the TQ vs HP race early on? ====
No. To spin your head back round the torque at the wheels does matter. As he explained torque and power can be manipulated and are very much linked by time (aka RPM) but when you have maximum power in the engine (i.e. at high RPM and a low gear) vs maximum torque (ie. at a lower RPM and higher gearing) then that power is applied to a wheel then an amount of torque is applied to the rubber. If the torque is low then you will accelerate slowly, if the torque is too high then you will get wheelspin and somewhere inbetween the car will accelerate like hell.....but remember Torque is a force - power is not. Power is a rate of work.
@@gmangnall a lot of people dont understand the difference between torque and hp let alone power band curve. this is what makes engineer design car engine so fascinating. a lot of smart engineer dont understand as good as other engineer this is why cars with rated power perform slower. some manufacture couldnt design a sport bike or formula 1 engine reliability so they never get to experiment with power curve to understand acceleration. this is why it lead them to only make v8 engine exclusively - all v8 by nature is fast. making 4 cylinder or v6 or inline 6 fast, you need to understand power curve. while v8 dose not. its just torque monster. when i look at engine design, i pay attention to power band and understand what makes that engine great. there are exception to every engine. you can have an engine with 100hp less accelerate faster. for honda, the reason why honda able to get maximum hp is because of their head. their head flow so good that you can extract so much hp out of it. then again, hp isnt everything. honda know this, this is why when honda make their first gen c series engine, they gave it more torque than trying to get most hp out of it. so it can accelerate faster early and mid. real world race appilication mid range power most of the time wins. nissan have always focus on mid range power.
This is how it would be thought of in a physics lesson. It might help.
Torque is a turning force. And you can use that force to turn, or revolve, something - like a screwdriver. And by applying torque, you can make that screwdriver turn a revolution. By doing so, you have completed 'work' (though a fairly small amount).
Torque is measured in either Newton Metres, or Lbs Feet. In this explanation, we will just keep things simple - think of torque as brute strength.
Horse Power is a method of measuring how much work is done in a given time.
You need to know how much torque is applied, multiplied by how many revolutions per minute that torque is applied, to work out how much horsepower is achieved.
This is the way I think of it...
There are two piles of bricks, one hundred in each pile, and they need moving across a building site.
A muscle man and a marathon runner challenge each other to a race. To see who can move a pile of the bricks the fastest.
The chap with a lot of muscle and strength (we will think of him as having the strength to apply lots of torque) is built like Ronnie Coleman. He is big and immensely strong but heavy and quite slow as a result. He is quite capable of scooping up a whole load of bricks and carrying them. He can carry 20 bricks at once, but he SLOOOOWLY.... walks with them. He could move all the bricks in 5 trips and take 10 minutes.
The seriously fit runner, who is light and fast on his feet (think of Mo Farrah) might only carry 2 bricks - 1 in each hand - and sprints across the ground. He has a low amount of muscle (or torque) but his legs can run (a form of revolution for our example) at a really fast rate. It takes the runner 50 trips to move the bricks. Also in 10 minutes
Now if they both complete the task in the same time, then they have both done equal amounts of WORK (which can be measured in Horsepower or Kilowatts) and It's a draw.
However, if Ronnie Coleman could manage to carry 25 bricks per trip, at the same pace, he does it in 4 trips, and in just 8 mins. He will have put out more horsepower.
He carries bricks at a slow pace compared to Mo, but by applying more strength (or torque), each rpm is doing more effort. Then it's just a case of multiplying the two together. Torque X RPMs.
However, Mo Farrah - still only carrying 2 bricks - refuses to be beaten!!! He hasn't got the strength (or torque) to carry more than 2 bricks, but he can pick up the pace instead. So he runs faster and his legs are a blur!!! . He finishes the task faster than Ronnie, let's say 7 mins. His body, although weaker at lifting, has now worked harder, because his low amount of torque, could be multiplied by very high revs. Think of a motorbike screaming along at 16000 rpms.... Lots and lots and lots of small, easy efforts, all added up to one huge effort to beat Ronnie. And he has now worked the hardest
Mo Farrah's incredibly hard work (measured in horsepower) meant he was moving more bricks in a given amount of time.
Keep this example in mind and think of your car engine. Horsepower is simply a way of measuring work done in a given time. It is not a unit of force, or a measure of how fast it can travel. The ability of an engine to provide power is achieved either by applying large amounts of torque at low revs, or applying low amounts of torque at high revs.
In real life Ronnie Coleman is built like a truck and would most likely win the competition in our example. He would be more efficient as he wouldn't be wasting time picking up and putting down bricks 50 times. Plus Mo Farrah would probably have to run at some ridiculous speed like 40 mph. It's just not feasible. You couldn't expect a motorcycle to carry bricks - it's not designed for it. The truck is. An articulated lorry tractor unit or semi - truck (if you're in America), might have 600 or 700 horsepower but that is only an indication of how much work it is capable of.
If comparing two vehicles to see which is faster, then look at POWER TO WEIGHT ratio. Although so many other factors affect performance: air drag, rolling resistance, a final drive ratio affects acceleration, fwd,rwd, awd, tyre traction.... etc etc etc. Its never simple.
When office workers talk of how much work they have done that day - scientifically that's not really the case. It does not take a lot of horsepower or Watts to pick up a few pens, or shuffle some paper. The man who's outside, lifting and carrying all day long, has worked much harder. Something my boss could never understand when I tried telling him that office work is not real work! (sorry office workers. I mean no offence; that's physics!)
Thank you for your explanation. I found it very useful and informative. :)
Had to stop reading when you said horsepower is equal to work
@@forloop7713 That's what James Watt developed the horsepower unit for. A unit of measuring work. Google it if you like.
Martin S why did you have to stop reading? Horsepower is defined as the rate at which work is done - which is what Martyn M. said. I prefer this definition to saying that it is just “power” simply because it is more explanatory.
Absolutely fantastic.. but i have a doubt nd I can only get back after framing the question.. as I need to understand this concept on a whole nd then frame my doubt
Thanks, I almost understood.
Consider you have a wheel that you're moving by hand. How much energy does it take to move the wheel around one revolution (i.e. all the way around once, back to the starting position)? That's what torque describes. Now consider if you want the wheel to turn as fast as it can. You now have to put in extra energy, so that the wheel turns multiple times as fast as it can. That's what horsepower describes. Both torque and horsepower are describing energy, but with torque it doesn't matter how long it takes for the energy to be applied, and with horsepower it does matter.
Torque = force times distance. If you have a longer lever, you can apply more force to the other end of it.
Horsepower = force times distance *over time.* The faster you want to do the work (like rotating the lever 1/4 turn), the less time you'll have to do it in, and the more horsepower you'll need. Conversely, the more horsepower you have, the less time it'll take you to do the work, and the faster you can do it.
Guys, i feel like he was joking
@@lakofbrwn1204 What makes you think he was joking?
Hey, I make science based 3D animations, and I'm planning to make an animation on this topic as I was also confused at times. If you would like to give me some pointers to what you would like in my animation, I would love to hear it!
Now I understand how my wife feels when I explain something to her about cars...
don't waste your time in explanation 😂
Some good music and thats about it, take her to a nice weekend honeymoon, that's all the explanation needed 😄👍
@@SudarshanAshiya why not lol
😂😂😂
Or ANYTHING.
I think it’s easier for cyclists to understand this because at some point you cannot press harder any faster, but you can drop a gear press just as hard much faster and make the vehicle go faster.
wow seems like I understand it now. thank you
drop a gear and disappear
this actually made it simple thank you
also, if the diameter of wheels is more, you have to paddle less to reach the destination
All very good explained, thank you, only one remark power is not torque x rpm, correct is force x rpm. But ultimately it’s same if leverage is same. In our case the difference of force between force created and force needed at the shaft is multiplied by rpm giving the reserve power that our car has at a certain point
This Guy : Explains everything perfectly
My mind = ok we need a longer car for more power 😆
Lmao yes, yes.... of course, the limousine. It's all coming together now
Hilarious 🤣
haha longer connecting rod
That's why drag cars are the shape they are.
Actually bust oot "lol"ing always read the comments
Perfectly Understood. Now can you repeat the part where you said all the stuff about the things.
Good
repeat the video
@@reizinhodojogo3956 Then I would have to repeat my comment. Rwoosh!
😂
I understood the introduction. you lost me at 99 percent of the video.
Hey, I make science based 3D animations, and I'm planning to make an animation on this topic as I was also confused at times. If you would like to give me some pointers to what you would like in my animation, I would love to hear it!
You just need to know the sentence/proverb/formula/the jist of this video at 6:48😉
then dont vote
I think anyone who understands torque and is seriously trying to understand the relevance of power should just focus on understanding Mechanical Advantage (gear ratios and wheel diameters). When you really understand what gear ratios and wheel diameters do, suddenly it will all click - why power is so meaningful.
For a vehicle, power is just the amount of forward push for the speed it is currently moving.
In slightly more technical terms, power at any moment is forward thrust at that moment times forward speed at that moment.
Algebraically rearranged: Forward thrust at any moment is equal to power at that moment divided by forward speed at that moment.
And you should understand what units are;)
@@drienkm power is just that. for all intent and purposes, gearing can be ignored if you know the output at any given time of a race. the higher the hp the motor is making at that moment, regardless of gearing. will tell you what or who will accelerate more. I agree with everything you said. and people that do get hung up on gearing and tq, havent really put it all together in their head yet. these are probably the same people that will say, hp sells car and tq wins races or hp is how fast you hit the wall, tq is how far you go through it. or some other nonsense.
Think of it like this: Torque is how much weight you can bench press, horsepower is how many reps you can perform with that weight in a certain time frame.
EDIT: I tried to keep it simple by mentioning "time frame" because you have to have some way of measuring how fast the weight is being moved in the example I've given. Which is confusing some people on RPM's vs horsepower. Think of your RPM's as being your rep count. And your horsepower is how fast you can move the weight to that rep count. For example..if you have two bodybuilders that have the same torque but different horsepower, it's going to take the one with a higher horsepower less time to get to 10 reps than it will the bodybuilder with the lower horsepower. Even though they are both lifting the same amount of weight and doing the same amount of reps.
So then with an engine, there is no muscle fatigue, so it's just your max a number of times within the time frame?
@@dukechangwang8017 Your question is an ironic conundrum funny enough. Horsepower is kind of like your muscle fatigue. It determines how fast your engine gets up to it's maximum torque and can maintain it's peak potential. If you have low horsepower and high torque, you'll stall out under a heavy load, because you don't have enough horsepower to get to peak torque and maintain it. Just like not having enough energy to do more reps, let alone more reps at a faster pace.
@@Ironwind1972 so since torque is tied in and dependent on horsepower, there's no way you can have high horsepower and too low of torque right?
@@dukechangwang8017 As long as you have the torque to move the weight of the machine to begin with. But take motorcycles for example (inline engines), they have high Hp and lower Tq. That's why they accelerate quick and maintain speed so well, they reach their peak torque numbers faster and have the ample horsepower to maintain it. They just don't need the Tq due to their lightweight.
@@Ironwind1972 you're a godsend I understand this a ton better now thanks 🙏
Jason, you’ve just answered the question that I’ve had for years! I knew of torque, I knew of horsepower, but couldn’t determine how they intermingled on a power curve. Mind blown today when you pulled it all together
Could "have" "paid" attention "in" "school". Greetings from Holland..
Bagdadsky_Hornik haha nice. I hope you're just trolling
Bagdadsky_Hornik *though
I always used to remember _"horsepower is how fast you hit the tree, and torque is how hard you hit it"..._
you still dont understand. He missed the most important thing lol. Imagine a same experiment on a hill. Car with higher torque will win.. Why? Once you understand that than you understand enough to explain to others!
there's no school like youtube
aint that the truth.
Should you believe everything you see on u-tube?
Until he starts talking about carnot cycles stay in school.
true I would ban half of youtubers. not demonetize . ban
Rick Velocity I call it the learning channel, with it I'm able too work on my own vehicle among other things around the house.
Rewatched some of your early videos after being a viewer of about two years and the progress of how you come across on camera is incredible. Practice makes perfect and you can tell that you’re far more comfortable on camera now than you once were. Long time fan, love the videos.
Thanks for the kind words!
Agreed
couldn't agree more
It’s always fun to see people get comfortable on camera
Hate the video how to block would be helpful🖕
I'm on a 32 inch monitor and at 4K it feels like you're sitting and explaining this right in front of me in person while I'm sitting on the opposite side of the table. Love the quality and explanation!
Thanks for watching everyone! I think one question that may come up after watching this is "Why does maximum acceleration happen at peak horsepower, rather than peak torque?" It's a fair question, because in a single gear ratio, peak acceleration (the force pressing you back in your seat) occurs at peak torque. I have a video explaining this in great detail: th-cam.com/video/cb6rIZfCuHI/w-d-xo.html
Edit: Also, if you're confused about the equation for Horsepower in this video not including 5,252, I did this to simplify the video. 5,252 is a scaling factor only appropriate for imperial units, it is not useful if you use kW or N-m, so it's inappropriate to use 5,252 in a general equation. I will include a video in the future explaining exactly where (through derivation) 5,252 comes from.
Jason, if torque is the force multiplied by the gearing, why isn't the torque figure consistent across the rev range? Regardless of RPM, you are applying the same amount of force throughout a given gear.
So essentially, the force being applied is not actually consistent across the rev range due to the ignition timing, intake/exhaust pressure, valve timing, and such?
Meaning that in theory, if an engine had the same volumetric efficiency across the rev range, then peak torque would be constant in a given gear?
Engineering Explained so for accelerating as fast as possible in a race, one should ideally shift gears at max RPM instead of the at the point where torque is highest?
Is that done in practice?
That makes sense. I was thinking in terms of what gets sent to the wheels, but that's just based on the transmission. Torque at the flywheel would be the same regardless of the gear selected.
+M Yes, assuming the torque drop off at peak RPM is not super severe. And yes, this is done in racing (shift at max RPM).
There's no denying the fact that this is the most simplest explanation one can find regarding the difference between torque and horsepower.
Spectacular work Jason!
horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you
Explosive Gaming I'm not sure where that analogy came from, I've heard it many times, but it's completely wrong.
Elan Jacobs not completely wrong
Explosive Gaming a Bugatti veyron has more power than any tractor but can't carry all them bricks like a tractor with only 10% the horsepower of a veyron.
Explosive Gaming it'd be better to say "torque is how much the car can do - horsepower is how fast it can do it"
The confusion comes from the inclusion of gears in the simplified equation. Look at tractors and their high torque and low hp engines. Look at why hot-rodders turbocharge their cars. Early HP doesn't necessarily translate into quicker acceleration, but early and consistent torque does. Work performed is such a simple statement.
Using your long handled wrench as an example - you get more torque with it. Make one revolution every minute. Now every 30 seconds. Now every 10 seconds. Getting tired? Now every 1 second - generating the same torque but doing more work - hence higher horsepower. Now if you add gears, you can magnify your torque and your horsepower as you see fit, carefully trying to find the right balance with your human engine. If you add a 10 foot extension to your wrench, you'll get super high torque, but very little horsepower as its a lot of work to go one revolution. If you shorten it, it will be harder to get up to speed, but you can spin it much faster. This is why we have multiple gears; so we can have usable torque and HP.
Now if Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson takes over for you and does the turning, he can generate more torque than you. He may not be able to spin it much faster, but when you factor in gears, his torque will spin a gear faster, doing more work and hence more horsepower.
I hope I didn't mess up too bad with that explanation. And we haven't even got to engine torque vs torque at wheels....
Catfish Cave
Fooking spot on, m8. Understood your explanation better.
10/10 explanation, in a fraction of video time
I'm glad you wrote so I didn't have to
Your explanation complemented the above video!
O.k
I think the reason so many people struggle with this (myself included) is that it is ultimately NOT simple.
Much as I enjoy EE's videos, it's possible that an engineer is not the best person to explain it ;-)
agree, what is needed is a Physicist, but he/she would just say the same thing as in this video: Horsepower is just the rate that work is done HP=dW/dt, and Torque is T= F x R. Now do you understand?
Exactly.
@@Hank520Tube I think layman's terms is necessary...
How I have remembered it...
HP... The basic power for level road...how much power the car has.
Torque... Capability of the vehicle to move up an inclination...
(Keep the tyres rotating even when it's a climb..)
It's pretty simple he explains it fully not even half way through the video
@@pathania3377 I've usually thought about it as HP is the speed a car can go while Torque is only really to effect how easy it is to burn out. Torque can help you get to top speed faster but isn't the deciding factor in how fast a car can go which is what HP helps to decide. However, there is a steep diminishing returns on it. 200hp = 150mph, 700hp = 200 mph, 1,600hp = 300 mph.
So high torque is best for burn out competitions, drifting, and getting your car up to top speed quickly but doesn't help give you any meaningful data on what that top speed will be. I think...
Horsepower is how fast you can turn the wrench, torque is how hard you can turn the wrench.
Horesepower - is simply that- like Voltage it known as potential energy - or the capacity to do work - lets say you have a horse and then give it the capacity of 20 horses - what do you want to do with it ? Speed you along at breakneck speed or pull a plaugh ? Torque is actually called rotational force - so it IS force ( mass x acc ) just going round - think of it as a fireman uncoiling his hose across the ground. or a wheel of a particular sixe and weight rolling until it hits another object. Finally the greater the force the greater the capacity to do work, and that includes accelleratio - The formula for force says force is equal to mass (m) multiplied by acceleration (a). If you have any two of the three variables, you can solve for the third. Force is measured in Newtons (N), mass in kilograms (kg), and acceleration in meters per second squared ( m/s2 ).
Here’s how to consider electricity. Picture your wire as a garden hose. Current is the rate water can go from one end to the other. Voltage is the pressure of the water or force pushing the water. Wattage is the volume coming out the other end in a certain time. Need more water with less pressure? Get a bigger hose and the same pressure gets you more water filling your pool faster. Need lots of wattage/water through the same hose? Crank up the voltage\pressure. The result of either is more water. Byproduct of either is more chance of a blowout so operate within the limits of your hose/wiring.
crank up the voltage/pressure too much? your wire/hose gets destroyed. They indeed work the same way and to understand electricity i've always pictured it like this
saytammm yeah, literally the “flow of electrons through a conductor ” little particles actually flowing. People say to me you can’t see them, I say...can you see two hydrogen and one oxygen molecule? No but that doesn’t mean it isn’t there. With a big microscope you can
More like in a car horsepower is how much force you hit the crowd and torque how long can you drag the bodies? -not mine
“Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world.”
Archimedes
I thought he said..."Give me a place on which to stand, and I shall move the Earth"
Little did he know that his mind was the lever and his Self the fulcrum
@@edfilipowicz4866 Nah, OP is right except the world part. Archimedes used earth and didn't use words like "lever or fulcrum"...
He wouldn’t stand at the fulcrum. That’s the pivot point of the lever.
What he said was: Δώστε μου ένα μέρος για να σταθώ και θα μετακινήσω ακόμα κι ολόκληρη τη Γη. Which translates to: Give me a place to stand and I will even move the whole Earth. No levers or fulcrums or worlds, just a place and the earth, and the whole thing of course relates to levers. :-)
Nothing causes more arguing and dissension than Politics, Harley Davidsons and the definition of torque.
what about time of fuel can burn
Harley Davidson gay
Torque is a rotational force - simples ! Think of a motorcycle on the wall of death going at 50mph - then put something in it's way - same as being hit at 50 mph on a flat road - I think were people get confused is the power and speed. Force is the potentional to do work - how you harness and use it varies - Atic vehicles have some of the greates power on the road..mmh... Formula 1 cars have 1.6L engines....which would you like to be hit by.......an F1 car doing 150mph or an artic doing 50mph - I remember my old days in scholl playing rugby - I was always told don't shy away from the inpact of a tackle the result will be worse - ie standing still.
How about women? I thought they cause more arguing and dissension when they manipulate things.
@@cb250nighthawk3 Ya, those are called wives.
If I understand the two concepts (horsepower and torque), I think that the following statements are true:
1. Torque is a component of horsepower.
2. Horsepower cannot exist without torque.
3. Therefore, to argue over which is more important is a false dilemma, because one is a subset of the other. While horsepower requires and utilizes torque, horsepower is a more comprehensive measurement.
Also explain why diesel have more torque than gasoline for same engine size... Greater compression ratio > longer connecting rod > larger crank radius = larger distance = more torque 😊
incorrect
Also, diesel contains more energy than gasoline
Diesel fuel also has more energy per litre of fuel than gasoline.
Billy So
Calorific value of diesel is roughly 45.5 MJ/kg while that of Petrol is 45.8 MJ/kg
Diesel burns much slower than gasoline. It pushes down the piston over a longer period than petrol.
Man, I swear, between you and ChrisFix, I get a good dosage of car related knowledge, you two guys and a few out there are really professional when it comes to stuff like this, thanks for helping us out with these amazing vids🤘
Chris is wonderful, glad you enjoy the video!!
Couldn't agree more
Furantzu can you give me the link for Chris Chanel ? Thanks, and yes this guy is awesome when it comes to explaining anything.
Sergio Bustamante Sergio I'd rather not spam here, just search and look up here on YT for ChrisFix, a lot of stuff will come up, he's got very clean, well explained methods for doing a lot of stuff on cars if you're a do-it-yourself kind of guy, hence why I mentioned both channels, these guys are very methodic yet dynamic when it comes to explaining, never a dull/boring moment!
Yeah a video with him would be great, I think
You lost me at "hello everyone and welcome"
Bruh 🤣
Lol 🤣
My brain runs on horse power and my body moves because of torque that's simple and that's all I could understand if I try to put too much pressure to understand the difference between torque and horsepower my brain and body will loose their horsepower and torque. 🙂🤗😁👍
Same🤣🤣
I think this video will be easier to understand if you somewhat know how gears work. And knowing how engines work. Search some videos on the topic. It will definitely help.
Brilliantly explained. Finally I can confidently say I could understand the basic fundamentals and connect why certain cars move faster inspite of having a lower capacity engine horse power.
Great
why, then?
I'm very mechanically inclined and have heard the HP v Torque explained in about 10 different ways. I still don't understand it outside of "torque is how much load can be hauled" and "HP is how fast you can haul it."
It took me a minute too. I have an F350 6.0L diesel and a 3.6L Jeep Wrangler. Both rated at ~300hp.
So why can’t my Jeep pull a 20,000lb trailer even though it’s the same power? Well, in theory, it could. My Jeep only makes 300hp at like 6500rpm and maybe 100 at 2000rpm. I would need a 15 speed gear box just to be able to get that trailer moving, and once it is moving, I would be red lining the engine and could not maintain that power.
The diesel can provide 300hp at 2000 rpm, so I can get it moving pretty easily and not red line my engine doing so.
What you quoted isn’t true technically, but it is practically. You can gear 300hp to put that power where you want it (optimized top speed or high load, pick one) but practically, you build your engine for it. A 15L semi engine is very high torque. Can probably make 300hp at 500rpm. It can drag 80,000lbs up a hill all day, and that 2000lb engine is a drop in the bucket for the rest of the truck. Now take a 700hp street McLaren. Most of the time it’s driving at road speeds and only needs 100hp. But when on the track and it wants 700hp, it can put it down in short bursts (at 8000rpm). That 4L engine would explode if you asked it to maintain full load, plus it would require a loooot of gears to have that power at a starting speed. And you would burn through clutches every 1000 miles.
The penalty of a high torque engine. Is while that 6.0L engine can make that power at only 2000rpm, it redlines at 3500. It’s too large to be able to get the rpm improvement to get higher peak power. Ya, if you could spin that same engine at 7000rpm, that would produce hilarious power, but the bigger pistons and longer bore couldn’t handle it.
Hope that makes it slightly more clear than mud.
Get on a mountain bike, go through the gears, up and down some hills and figure it out for yourself.
@@ctbrahmstedt this video is not about reliability, overheating, displacement. its just about power, torque and acceleration. torque can be multiplied with gearing, horsepower can't, period.
how many gears you need is not about having huge torque, it is about what is your lowest gear (so you can climb any hill at least in first and not get stuck, and start comfortably in first without frying your clutch ), highest gear (for highway cruisng) and how wide is your powerband so you can shift beetween gears without having a huge drop in power. l
this is why even trucks with huge engines and enormous torque still have a lot of gears (10 to 18)
@@ctbrahmstedt Do the high torque engines make their greatest power at peak RPM? For example, the engine you describe at the end. It makes a lot of power at 2000 RPM but does it make more power at its max 3500 RPM?
@@geemy9675 And those large trucks are limited in maximum RPM so they need larger gears to reach higher speeds (and all the gears to get to those speeds).
i changed my mind, i prefer to buy 1 horse with chariot.
The End.
Advantage of TH-cam - you need not feel embarassed for not getting it in the 1st go.
Just double tap on the LHS
A good explanation I understood:
You can leverage torque, meaning the force applied will be greater but the lenght of the leverage arm will increase linear. So the power is always the same, as long as you move your arm in the same speed aa before. When you increase the speed you will increase the power, while the torque applied stays the same. In ICE cars its not only the speed which increases but also the torque, at least at low rpms. Thats why you get a very step power increase. Then torque will start to drop, but not as fast as speed (rpm) increases, so power will still increase.
This explaination will give you the answer, why a human cannot have the same hp as a car although with a large leverage arm the torque applied by human hand could be greater: you cannot do it with 7000 revolutions per minute
Here's what I got:
Horsepower is just the rate at which the torque from the explosions are applied. Higher rpm, more explosions providing force, more power. Longer connecting rods will increase torque through leverage but will move slower, so the overall horsepower will remain the same. Torque increases with rpm because at low rpm, there is less fuel (and less force from the explosion) with every revolution of the pistons. At high rpm, much more fuel is needed to keep the speed up so there is more torque. Torque drops off at high rpm due to friction and the limited speed of combustion itself; the explosions don't have enough time to finish before the piston bottoms out. Like you said though, the revs still increase which compensates for the loss in torque, so horsepower still increases albeit not as quickly. Higher displacement engines can burn more fuel per revolution and thus provide more power/torque (and longer strokes can give combustion more time to complete).
An important point of the video is the note on gearing. Many claim that horsepower doesn't matter and torque is what you feel, which is true to some extent, but it is misleading in that the power can be manipulated to increase that torque. Engines with less horsepower and naturally high torque can't be manipulated to produce more torque than a naturally high-horsepower low-torque engine could. This also means that torque at the wheels can be completely different from torque at the crank depending on the gear ratios being used.
This is a very fascinating concept to me and I'm glad I can finally understand it.
Thumbs up for the explanation and LEGO Shell Limited Edition Ferrari F40 with pull-back action :P
Do the LEGO Shell Limited Edition Ferrari F40s have a time delay option? Was wondering how it sat there for a while first.
It has loads of torque..
Literally 1% of the people in the comments understand it.
89% think they understand but still dont get it, it and 10% are still like.... what
My take away is that stated torque figures are basically irrelevant, however they measure it, because torque at the rear wheel is mediated by gearing and peak effective torque is actually defined by peak hp. Is that right? He didn't say that but it sounds like that.
Which would mean engine torque stats are useful purely to create a torque curve that demonstrates power distribution / feel through the rev range. (And this graph is practically, if not literally, scale invariant.)
In which case... Wtf do stated torque figures come from and why does the industry keep insisting they're relevant?
@@JSBax yes John, thats correct.
God knows why people allways quote torque figures 🤦♂️
Its a measurement, but not a measurement of power output.
@@JSBax Perfectly said John. Torque is what the engine creates, power is what the actual car can output.
Isnt it because if you have more torque you get to the peak power faster and you wont need as much gear changes
@@lukas6610 the power curve is another thing alltogeather.
Something people will allways say is "2 strokes have no torque"
Its not true, they have a lot more torque than their 4 stroke counterparts, but they *feel* like they have no torque because their power curve is very peaky.
Horsepower sells cars torque wins races.
- Carrol Shelby
They are same
But how is That my Audi rs5 (450 hp 430 nm) is Faster then a tuned Audi s5 With 428 hp and 520 nm ) witch is also a bit lighter ?
@@MartijnvanderHage yeah but the s5 get the final speed sooner that your rs5.... I test it in gt3 for ps2..... Tunning gears and engines. ...
marty7604 because you have more power, didn’t you watch the vid? :p
You can only choose 1 torque or power. You cant have it all. If you want top speed like highway races choose power. If you want to win races in a print choose torque.
Thats why a Lambo cant beat Tesla in a 400m sprint because of this matter.👍
You said it best at the end. Horsepower IS torque and movement. They are not separate things.
Think of torque as how hard your pistons are pushing with each crank, and horsepower is the combined energy of each push over a fixed period of time. The more times that torque can be applied, the higher your power output will be. The faster your engine turns over, the harder it is for the engine to apply torque, since the pistons are already in motion. It’s like trying to hit a baseball which is already moving away from you. That’s why torque tapers in the high rev range, but power continues to increase, since you have so many cranks per minute!
CitizenEJ257 He was definitely a little contradictory. He stated you "feel" the most acceleration at peak torque but then explicitly stated peak acceleration happens at peak power. By definition, accelerating faster at peak power means that would also cause the most g-force, aka acceleration that you would feel. Not sure what his motivation was there.
And here I thought horsepower was a arbitrary number, compared to the practical torque. XD
zecc81 He wasn't contradictory, because he was talking about acceleration in a given gear in one case and at given speed in the other case.
Took you two sentences to explain what this video doesn't clearly state, even though it should be the sole purpose of the video.
I'm at a loss how someone can spend 7 minutes repeatedly contradicting himself and mixing terms, and get 10k likes. And you just removed the contradiction in one paragraph.
Good job, sir, you should apply for EE's ghost writer.
Lam if you can't clearly understand what the video states then you are the problem.
I wish all of my college professors were as clear and concise as this!
Quatt22 true that
when i started racing speedway i was told hp is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you move it lol
That’s a quote from Top Gear 👍🏼
engineers around the world cringing
He has a video disproving this
how far you move it would be work i think
@@KarlBryngelsson - that quote has been around a lot longer than top gear has... just saying.
The explanations using the peak values graphs were really good. Nice work, great perspective.
Torque is being manipulated by the gears. THE GEARS ARE BULLYING TORQUE....TORQUE IS SAD.
No torque!, no torque! YOUR the TORQUE!!!
Torque is sad - (i)
I am sad - (ii)
Therefore from (i) and (ii),
I am torque.
torque is happy. torque loves to be put to the road.
horsepower without enough torque is useless.
ONE 403 eg smaller petrol engines in larger cars.. better off with diesel, higher torque at lower revs
I was following you up until it all got complicated 😂😂😂
HOLD UP.
So what comes first, torque or horsepower? How does one create the other or are they separate?
This video helped me understand much better than the donut media one!!!!!!!!!!
@@ares6949 weird name.
Firstly, we need to understand that torque is force multiplied by distance.
Torque in an engine is how much force the pistons can exert so that the wheels can spin. The longer the distance between pistons and crankshaft, the more torque so that the wheels can spin.
Horsepower is the times the piston revolves (like 500 Rounds per Minute etc.) and is determined by torque times RPM (power = work done/time) and so more the torque and RPM more the Horsepower.
Overall you need more torque to get more horsepower so that a car accelerates faster and is more Eco-Friendly.
@@alterego9791 very good now I understood the whole phenomenon thanks
torque is how strong that piston push, horse power is torque multiply how fast it can rev. A big engine has stronger torque and can pull better than small engine at the same rpm. A small engine can get more horse powers by revving at higher rpm, but it can not exceed its torque limit for its size (unless turbo). The S2000 engines can rev really high and make 240 horses, but has only 150 torque, even as it revs higher, it will only make more horse power, the torque is still the same.
@@kenca0 Thanks for saying it i english dude :D i understand now! Thanks!!!
Loved the video! This is the best explanation of this topic I have found
Omg! I am so thankful to you. I’m a 54 yr old woman with no knowledge about cars and their inner workings, but you explained it so well that I understood it right away! 😊
This has become my favorite TH-cam channel. Keep up the great work!
So kind, thank you!!
Engineering Explained - yea man, nice
Same here
I love you man!!!!!! 46 years old man here always had that question in the back of my head but never actually asked anyone. Today out of nowhere i stumbled on your video by accident and watched it . It is so amazing the experience i mean, when you meet a true educator that have this ability and charisma to explain complicated maters to people that have no clue or any idea about the specific subject. After all when you cant explain something to a 5 year old it means you dont truly know that something! Love from Sweden keep up the good work!
Great sir.
Yeah baby !! ... Finally, torque and horsepower explained simply. I'm linking this video to my upcoming episode of blowing up see-through engine, match made in heaven !!!, you'll see what I'm talking about Jason.... Fantastic !
Loved the airbag Merc and the bottle experiment!
Furantzu thanks , next up is E.1 of See-Through Rotary Engine, posts Friday.
To me the most simple way to think about it is that power is torque being delivered at some rate. Nothing more, nothing less. People think of power and torque as two different things and argue about which is better but the fact is that by definition power is simply torque in motion at some rotational speed. An engine's torque by itself can do no work - it has to be delivered at some rate in order to do work, regardless if that is moving a vehicle, spinning a generator, powering a machine, or whatever. This is why an engine's power rating is what determines how much work it can do in a given amount of time, not its torque rating.
I loved the joke at the end about how it cleared up the differences between hp and torque
A great explanation (after multiple rewinds). I’d love to see a follow up video of this in practice - building on the concepts explained with a couple of vehicles with varying hp & tourque. Dare I say... factor in electric engines too?
More confused than I was before watching 🤣😭
Physics is quite confusing. Here's a reply I gave to a comment that came a bit after yours, maybe it'll help: We [racers] do. We spend as much time at peak power as possible. This means as low a gear as possible. First gear gives 50% more acceleration than second gear. Second gives 33% more than third. And so on and so forth. Another note, engines aren't most efficient at peak torque. That's where peak intake air velocity occurs, and you cram the most air and fuel into the same volume. So, you get the most energy for that particular explosion, meaning peak torque. And there's more, lots more. Here's a reply I have to the comment just after yours, maybe it'll help some: Well, power equals force times velocity, not force times acceleration. You're forgetting that doubling your velocity makes four times the energy. Weird, right? So, even if power peaks a little later in the revs than torque, it is still directly proportional to rpm, not proportional to the square of rpm. Also, you have to take the area under the curve, you know, calculus (whatever that is, I forget) to get the total change in energy of the system. Long story short, peak acceleration occurs at peak torque. Here's the clincher. First gear gives the most leverage, and the most acceleration of any gear. Second gear gives less acceleration, but more speed. However, the engine is still making the same power in second gear as it did in first. Weird, right? But, since power equals force times velocity, we see that force decreaes because velocity has increased. Less force, less acceleration. So, second gear compared to first gear is the same idea as a higher rpm compared to a lower rpm. Ah ha!
@@MultiPleaser This is the best explanation so far (especially the second half)!
Me too 😂
This might not be utterly correct, but good enough and it helped me a lot: torque is the horsepower of each explosion.
Too much words, less 3xamples. The easiest which is the best was to undesrtand something is with examples rather than words.
I couldn’t have asked for a more informative yet succinct video with visual representation too. Instantly subscribed as you turn complex theories into fun examples that are easy to understand!! Thank you ☺️
As a former motor head we always said torque gets you off the line power makes you finish. I been a Auto tech since 1996 and what the automotive industry has done with small displacement engines is truly amazing. The power numbers from 4 cyl engines is truly amazing.
vape ?
That's pretty close. Torque gets you off the line, power determines how long it takes to finish.
Camaro's with a turbo 4cly making 275hp and 295lbs, I wish we had four bangers like that when I was in HS. I'm pretty sure it would beat the 350 from the 80's and 90's.
I like this video a lot more than your others. Don't get me wrong I love all your videos, but it's nice to understand an entire video. Even if I understand your math based videos I can't apply that knowledge in real life, this I can apply to grasp a better understanding of how my car is working when I'm driving my standard car. That will help a lot
Darth Strakh I totally agree I love these videos, it's clear this guy can blow our minds with knowledge. He should start a channel "Engineeringfordummies"
+1
Dart1 h Strakh
so, a funny story here, I was trying to make hummus when the blender gave up on me, so being the nerd I am, I was trying to understand what exactly happened...
here I am 3 hours later deep in researching power and Torque
I just wanted some hummus!!
I hope you had it by now, it has been 6 days now, i am worried for you :p
Try some Toum :) By the way, can you send a link for your hummus recipe? Thank you.
Did you make the hummus tho?
Use a food processor. Much better than a blender :)
What about the hummus? You left us hanging!
i think it might be helpful to see a graph of wheel torque over engine speed at each gear
Yes! That would mean changing the transmission would change the torque numbers but not the HP?
Maybe this will help to some of you that are still confused:
more engine torque (like with diesel engine) doesn't neccessarily equal faster acceleration. Take one transmission ratio and you'll accelerate very fast, but only up to a lower speed. Take the other transmission ratio and you'll accelerate slower, but up to a higher speed, so it basically all comes down to power, which is torque at a certain rpm level. Diesel usually has more torque, but it's not an advantage, if it only lasts throughout a short rpm range. You can use appropriate transmission with petrol engine and get high torque, like with diesel, but it will only last throughout a short rpm range (as with diesel, obviously). So, for higher performance, take something with more hp - what good is 1000nm or whatever many hundred lb.ft of torque if the engine only produces 10hp (spins slowly)? Yes, petrol has lower torque, but also spins faster, so it's the rpm AND torque (or power) that matters. You can have as long of a wrench as you want and be able to exert as much torque as you want, with it, but it'll take a long time for you to screw that bolt in, with that long wrench, so unless the screw turns really hard (large transmission ratio), you don't need all that torque, but rather higher rpm and lower torque (achievable with smaller wrench). As I've said before, go for the hp (not counting the weight of the car and bunch of other variables), and the transmission will also make a difference - how many gears, how fast you can shift them and what top speed the transmission is geared for.
See it this way.
Large gear ratio means longer lever, more torque. So it makes it easier for you to actually move a stuck nut/bolt.
But when you have momentum on your side in a car,(when the said nut/bolt is not stuck and is well oiled), the longer lever in only increasing the distance you need to travel with your arm to make the nut spin one full circle.
Imagine opening a jar lid or a nut/bolt, with a lever that is 10 meters long. Imagine how big of a circle you'd have to run to make the lid spin just one circle.
Videos like these are why I'm subscribed. Keep it up man.
In essence.
Just throw a bunch of money into your engine and hope it goes faster. You're welcome.
hmmmmm..
(slow appreciation clap)
I just tried this... There were bills flying everywhere
lol
Youre right i stripped down a blown engine once, it was full of money
Idc about how fast it can go, i care about the fast i can go fast, as an the acceleration is all i care about.
I came back across this video; many automotive reviewers should watch it to under stand torque is not the end of all things when they are not completed off the track to start with. Great explanation!
He is better teacher than all my teachers combined. Bruh.
Haha I appreciate the kind words!
than all your teachers columbined? eh.. eh? no? okay...
Wow what a simple explanation.. you made this very simple . Icant compliment you more because im not so good in english
Love from india
Happy to hear it, thanks for watching!
Engineering Explained thanks to you for the video
I think explicitly stating (or showing how) you can compensate for less torque with gearing but you can't compensate for less hp with anything helps clarify.
I think YES
Listened to it 3 times and understand approx 50% of what he's saying as I follow along trying to decipher my dyne graph.
I had that confusion for a long time , I asked my brother to explain but I still had the confusion ...
You have done a great job of in explaining , now I have no confusion!
Thanks!
"I don't understand." (Buys a diesel.) "OHHHHH! Now I get it!"
*Buys a Tesla
Funny enough, my favorite real world example of why power is so important involves my experience using two different diesel trucks to tow the same heavy trailer up the same long grade in MT. Spoiler - the one with more power towed better. The truck with more torque made that torque at a such a low RPM that it required a much higher gear ratio at the same road speed as the other truck, meaning less wheel torque = less pull (less power).
People just feel more power at lower rpm and think "oh this is torque" when really it's just more hp at lower rpm.
You bet my f350 with 7.3 turbo. Is just as fast with or without a load. But around 80 your topped out lol
Back2Black cries as you fly off of a cliff
Dude you're the best. I was asked this a few weeks ago and couldntbexplain it properly. You made it so simple. Thanks so much for the great videos!
Happy to hear it, thanks for watching!
Third time I’ve watched this. I come back every 2 or 3 years for a refresher to make sure I don’t forget little things. Thanks for the video!
Torque is an ingredient of power. The other is RPM. Low torque high rpm is equally fast as high torque low rpm. Sometimes high torque engine cars go faster. When that happens those cars actually produce more energy during the acceleration test so that means the average power was definitely higher.
Your analogy makes a lot of sense, thanks
some late thoughts. 'torque is newton-meters is force is power is hp is torque'. by that i mean that the output energy of a car engine is the result of a Series of processes. then, that energy is used in a weird way. in that, there is NEGATIVE MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE at the ground. why is this true. the Radius of a wheel is, maybe, five times the size of the radius of the final gear, in the differential. cheers
Thanks for this. I've never understood why a tractor with 60 HP can out pull a car with 200 HP. Makes sense now.
@em745a The exception is a steam tractor. You'll never outpull a steam tractor.
Empirical data would show otherwise. It was fun to watch the real world scenario where a 16hp Case steam tractor out-pulled an 800hp John Deere Power puller. Power is only one factor in the real world. Tractive effort, weight, the rigidity of the chassis. And the list goes on.
Tractive effort is an old term not used much any more except among the steam folk. Steam engines (unlike you apparently) aren’t easily bent out of shape.
You obviously didn't understand the video. Give the car a lower gear ratio and it will outpull the tractor as long as it has grip.
Well, gear ratio doesn’t change soil consistency lol. That didn’t help it much. It got buried as soon as the steam tractor was put into “forward”.
u lost me half way,gonna keep rewatching it till i get it 100%,great video man,keep it up.
Mixed Content Same here, lol.
god man, shut up. People learn at different rates
Matt Moleman just like cars accelerate at different rates :)
It's called turbo lag, don't feel bad.
same here
I always remember on our local dual carriageway on my cheap and nasty long stroke 250cc CZ motorbike sedately chugging past a Yamaha 125cc which had probably double the horsepower with the other rider lying flat on the tank trying to make way in to the head wind. A good demonstration of torque and a rare and memorable memory at not feeling at the bottom end of motorcycle ownership.
Recently subbed, Really great channel Thanks alot!
Thanks for subscribing!
Great video. I think there are two errors:
1_ 1:44 - If I move this car from here to here I've done a certain amount of work. Well not really, specially if you move it horizontally (thus not gaining any potential energy) The energy you win is in the object moving at a certain speed (kinetic energy), Kinetic energy formula is K = 1/2 . m . v2. The more speed the more energy the car has. So you can explain power as the capacity to reach a certain velocity (energy level) in lesser time, and that's acceleration, as simple as that.
2_ The force pressing against your seat will be greatest at peak torque. Incorrect, it's at peak acceleration as F = m . a, mass being a constant (you). So your seat will be applying peak force to accelerate your body at peak acceleration (not torque) and this is also mentioned later in the video so there is at least an inconsistency. Peak acceleration happens at peak power as it's the moment where the engine can produce more work, in this case by accelerating the mass of the car (augmenting kinetic energy)
I hope I didn't get it wrong or made it even more confusing.
Well, power equals force times velocity, not force times acceleration. You're forgetting that doubling your velocity makes four times the energy. Weird, right? So, even if power peaks a little later in the revs than torque, it is still directly proportional to rpm, not proportional to the square of rpm. Also, you have to take the area under the curve, you know, calculus (whatever that is, I forget) to get the total change in energy of the system. Long story short, peak acceleration occurs at peak torque. Here's the clincher. First gear gives the most leverage, and the most acceleration of any gear. Second gear gives less acceleration, but more speed. However, the engine is still making the same power in second gear as it did in first. Weird, right? But, since power equals force times velocity, we see that force decreaes because velocity has increased. Less force, less acceleration. So, second gear compared to first gear is the same idea as a higher rpm compared to a lower rpm. Ah ha!
1_ In real world there is friction so he is totally right. It is work to overcome friction over time. Power is also force (friction) times velocity... don't mix up real world with highschool physics ;) he is totally right in this environment about this statement.
2_ In this point he is also correct. The problem here are the gears. If you only have one gear the force you feel is exactly proportional to the torque curve. Of course you can shift down one gear to increase the acceleration(force) but in this Gear you have the same curve which is proportional to the force you feel. That's also the reason why people think torque matters and buy diesel cars... Diesel engines often have peak torque and peak power at very similar rpm. This feels like more power. (though it isn't)
Show this to every freshman engineering student
They allready teach that BS in the schools, but its entirely wrong, because using gears you only manipulate the torque, an engine can only pull up to its maximum torque, after its quite weak and useless, so EEs explanation sucks because you can not get more torque out of the engine even if you manipulate with gears. most engines in cars run to maximum 8000 rews, so the only way to maximize horsepower is to maximize torque, end of story.
@@Deutsche_1 You are wrong and arrogant.
@@Your_username_ please tell me where i am wrong and where i am arrogant, your statement is taken out of the blue, thank you.?
@@Deutsche_1 yes you're wrong and arrogant too.
You can manipulate the torque by changing the dimensions of connecting rod (rod which connects Piston to crankshaft) since Torque is directly proportional to force and *DISTANCE*
That's common high school knowledge
And you're arrogant because you don't know much but is still giving wrong validations to someone who's more right than you
@@shrijanbuchasia7366 So explain how you want to make more power when you are limited to 8000 rews.? Arrogant or not, you cant defeat the truth, but apparently you cant handle the truth, and its easy to be arrogant when academic calculations is in the game, because like my previous text, academics learn the wrong things now a days, they are missing out on the basics.
Your way of explaining is so easy to grasp
Thanks again for all your great videos :)
Jake Voorhees Do you have a brother named Jason by any chance?
My real name is Jason, I just go by my nickname Jake so I don't freak people out. Come on by Elm Street if you wanna chill, peace!
Jake Voorhees brother?
But...don't you mean by Camp Crystal Lake?
Ahh! scary!!
So many people will understand this practical/theoretical analysis much easier than some of the mathematical explanations he uses in most videos 😁 this makes is very easy to understand though. Great work 🖒
Happy to hear it, thanks!
Thank you for that easy to understand explanation!
Very welcome, glad you found it helpful!
Crazy! I remember watching this a while back and not understanding it but after just taking physics mechanics in college I easily understand it now.
Correct
Your explanation here is the clearest I have heard so far. Thank you for the video.
Power is the Volume of Torque.
At the peak power RPM an engine produces more torque VOLUME than it does at peak torque RPM.
Highest torque at the wheels at any given vehicle speed occurs at peak power.
At any vehicle speed the engine RPM at peak torque dictates a gearing ratio. In order to raise engine RPM to peak power but equal that specific vehicle speed a higher multiplication is required. This higher multiplication generates a HIGHER torque at the wheels.
This is why a vehicle accelerates quickest at peak power and not peak torque in a CVT equipped vehicle.
Finally someone who understands this. Thank you! There's so much Dunning Kruger bs on the internet about how "torque" beats "horsepower" and whatnot.
One of the best "simple" explanations I have ever seen. If one does not get it after this, that person will never get it.
Thumbs up if you still don’t get it. 😅😂😂😂
Torque has to do with how heavy a car the engine can push up a slope. Horsepower has to do with how quick the engine can push a car up a slope.
Torque is mostly proportional with displacement so the bigger the displacement, the more torque you get and the car carries itself easier. The more horsepower, the faster it pushes you around.
🤣🤣
🙌
Heres a wierd way i might be able to explain.
Blow air out of your lungs fast. Like youre blowing a balloon away. Then cover your mouth while doing it. You stop the air flow, and your lungs can no longer push the air out. That's horsepower. All speed, low mass.
Now blow slowly. But sturdily. Cover your mouth. But force that slow air through, even moving your hand. That's torque. All mass, low speed.
What i have a hard time understanding is how an engine can produce alot of one but little of the other, WITHOUT gears changing it up.
@@davecrupel2817 That's a weird analogy. I don't think i get it.
But I do can answer your question.
Let's take an example, yamaha r1. Producing 200hp and peak torque of 114nm
Engine power is literally torque * rpm. r1 can rev up to 14000 rpm, thus POWAA.
Some come to youtube to be educated and find answers to problems, others to be entertained. Got to be in the top 3 apps ever created.
Alistair Thow True. TH-cam is amazing.
You mean websites ?
Its like facebook some people use it to connect some to sell
What a Simple, Objective and Clear explanation. Congrats and Thank You Very, Very Much.
This was the best explanation I've heard and I think I'm pretty confident in my understanding of the relationship between torque and horsepower now. Thank you so much
The best explanation I found on internet.
Finally a video that I can understand, thank you so much for doing this
Peak Toque was my favorite Monkee. So sad when he passed away.
Thank you really good explanation. The leverage used by Lamborghini with that gearing seems to be an example with the hurrican. I don't know if this makes sense or whether it's true... First three gears are shorter and rev very quickly, then the fourth gear is taller but it's able to utilise the force at work (engine power + inertia). Some cars seem to have too tall a final drive gear. My old 82 skyline's 5th gear was useless. It seemed that there wasn't enough power to "force multiply'. Give me a lever big enough....
Very well explained. Next video remember to make your imaginary graphs in the opposite direction so that when you superimpose the graph during editing it appears that your hands are following the actual graph line ;-)
Great video. Especially impressed with the ability of being able to utilise medieval units of measurement.
What confuses people is that they think they can "feel" torque. If you have 2 cars like say a dart 1.4t and a dart 2.0 na. They have the exact same peak hp number of 160 but the 1.4 turbo has ~40 lb-ft of torque more. It is quicker and feels quicker because it has more hp in the lower rpms while the 2.0 has the same peak hp but much less hp in lower rpms. If you had a cvt or at least a 10 speed transmission that kept the engines in their peak power they would be exactly the same speed. However when most of us drive we drive at partial throttle 2-4k rpm, not at 6.5k thus we feel the greater hp the car with more torque has.
TLDR
Cars with more torque have more low end horsepower then cars with less torque but similar peak hp
Great of you to note this. So if we stick to the philosophy that power is ultimately what we want (although torque is still important, we not too concerned about it), we need to get away from the idea that only *peak* power is important. What your are hinting at and what people need to consider is the is the area underneath the power curve. The greater that area, the faster the car can accelerate.
Exactly why modern turbo diesels became so popular (in UK and Europe at least) as they provided accessible HP in day to day driving.
Exactly, peak horsepower is meaningless. It's the available horsepower at that particular rpm that's important. A car will accelerate the fastest at peak horsepower. Torque is what determines how long it will take you to reach that peak horsepower. Engines with more torque will allow you to reach its peak horsepower (i.e. peak acceleration) faster.
Tanah Merah That's not right. Within a particular gear, peak torque is where the engine is most efficient and has the greatest acceleration. Torque is a force and angular acceleration is a component of it. When you bring a gearbox into the equation you can get better acceleration at peak power by gearing down.
This is what I was looking for. The difference in torque between the e92 BMW 335i (twin turbo inline 6 cylinder) vs the e92 BMW m3 (v8 na) where the 335i has more torque but the m3 has more horsepower.
I like how when you say it, it sounds so simple and rational. I'm really glad somebody understands it !
Its so nice to finally see a video that really clarifies the difference so well. I think a lot of people have trouble grasping the concept that torque can be supplimented by gear ratio if the car is making power high enough into the rpm range. I also liked the part explaining how peak torque is the highest instantaneous acceleration *for a given gear* which really explains why high torque cars can feel a lot faster than they are because of the brief shove that happens in the low range of each gear but doesn't continue into higher speeds. Great video!
HP. increases with torque in gasoline engines.Higher torque higher HP. If HP. is so important why is the buzz about electric motors having instant full torque. Never hear about the HP. ratings.Yes electric motors when built right will smoke a gas engine.Some times literally when electric motor goes.All torque no HP. you have a diesel. All HP. no torque you have an F1 car.Gotta find that magic middle ground.
One important thing left out is torque at the wheels vs. torque at the crankshaft. Torque at the wheels alone is what determines how fast the car accelerates. Horsepower is the ability to supply that torque at higher speeds. So the car with 200 lb-ft of torque will beat the one with 100 lb-ft until it doesn't have enough power to supply 200 lb-ft any more (assuming the torque is measured at the wheels, through the transmission).
louisxiiii fantastic clarification...I am in the early stage to learn about torque and hp,.. Your comments helped me a lot
srsly, torque is the only thing accelerating your car. acceleration is what causes u to get pushed back in seat. thats why him saying peak horsepower causes.mote acceleration while peak torqur causes u to get pushed back in ur seat the most makes no sense.
I was waiting for this to be said in the video (car with 200 TQ will out accelerate the 100 TQ for a certain amount of distance/time). Question I have is why manufacturers use 5252 rpm for their crossover point for TQ and HP?
@@gbarton800
Manufacturers don't "use" 5252rpm as the crossover point. That's just where it is when using lb-ft and hp.
1hp= 33,000ft-lb/min
33,000 / 2π = 5,250
5252 is more precise but 5250 is convenient and accurate enough.
Nightjar on the gate thanks for the response and explaining the math - that makes sense. By the way, I meant 5250 (fat fingered?). Thanks again!
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What’s your take on the TQ vs HP race early on?
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So the torque rating is for the engine, and has nothing to do with what force actually gets to the wheels?
No. To spin your head back round the torque at the wheels does matter. As he explained torque and power can be manipulated and are very much linked by time (aka RPM) but when you have maximum power in the engine (i.e. at high RPM and a low gear) vs maximum torque (ie. at a lower RPM and higher gearing) then that power is applied to a wheel then an amount of torque is applied to the rubber. If the torque is low then you will accelerate slowly, if the torque is too high then you will get wheelspin and somewhere inbetween the car will accelerate like hell.....but remember Torque is a force - power is not. Power is a rate of work.
@@gmangnall a lot of people dont understand the difference between torque and hp let alone power band curve. this is what makes engineer design car engine so fascinating. a lot of smart engineer dont understand as good as other engineer this is why cars with rated power perform slower. some manufacture couldnt design a sport bike or formula 1 engine reliability so they never get to experiment with power curve to understand acceleration. this is why it lead them to only make v8 engine exclusively - all v8 by nature is fast. making 4 cylinder or v6 or inline 6 fast, you need to understand power curve. while v8 dose not. its just torque monster.
when i look at engine design, i pay attention to power band and understand what makes that engine great. there are exception to every engine. you can have an engine with 100hp less accelerate faster. for honda, the reason why honda able to get maximum hp is because of their head. their head flow so good that you can extract so much hp out of it. then again, hp isnt everything. honda know this, this is why when honda make their first gen c series engine, they gave it more torque than trying to get most hp out of it. so it can accelerate faster early and mid. real world race appilication mid range power most of the time wins. nissan have always focus on mid range power.
The higher the torque the faster you can accelerate in the highest gear and low revvs form low speed.
Oh shut up. I almost had it but now my mind is all fog again :/
I'm more confused than when I arrived here.
A very understandable video thanks
Nice joke, man :))
I've been wanting a layman's video like this for like ever. One like for you and your oratorical skills. :D
When he said “ just talking about theory and keeping it simple” I thought “can’t wait to see the comments”.
I love these videos that you avoid the use of whiteboard full of numbers! That's when I don't need a Engineering Explained Explained hahahaaha
Luiz Eduardo Carneiro engineering explained explained haha, nice one. Can relate :D