I'm sure most people are stuck in progression and probably don't have too too much currency to start thinking about crafting any real "endgame" items yet. So right now the whole itemization is taking a backseat compared to archnemesis and loot drops. But the reality is that even if you greatly increased loot and everyone was rich all of a sudden, the new harvest doesn't really allow for any sort of crafting to happen. Essentially, there's no reason to make any currency that would be required to craft endgame stuff, since crafting those items is just gambling now. For the giga sweatlord 1%, it's not the end of the world to spend 20 ex on an item and end up annulling a modifier you awakener orbed, but for the vast majority of players, that is hours and hours and potentially even days worth of grinding that is going completely in the toilet. EDIT: This post sums it up quite well. I agree with him, these are the 4 really important ones which should come back. www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wwxyrj/upcoming_harvest_cost_reductions_are_a_good_start/
Honestly, even though reddit is a cesspool, there's a few good posts, and the more I read some of those the more sense they make. The entirety of his vision being shoehorned into the game as it is is what broke the camel's back. The vision isn't viable, the "balance" they see and what we see isn't the same, being difficult isn't the same as being unfair, and the communication is non-existent. It just doesn't work. I went into details on reddit, but I can't be arsed to give feedback again if they're not gonna use it at all. So what's the point of engaging, if it means nothing?
They just made uniques more valuable, what are you talking about? Craft made more frustrating, not less powerful. Because cost of items will raise with difficulty of making the item. Players overall will be weaker, but i don't see a problem. With enough currency you can do any content on any build. And previous leagues people got currency more than they needed.
@@ljohabogdanov7596 You make underpowered uniques more valuable by making them good, not by making everything else crap. Tell me, how would you craft a 250% phys damage 2h weapon now? Answer is - you wouldn't. So now our cap has lowered by a LOT, and uniques still aren't good. You literally CAN'T GET some of the gear we used to be able to. It's a nerf fest, the more you look at it the worse it gets.
i am noob only played POE for like a year but I am not interested in grinding hours and hours to make builds better so I don't get what they are thinking.
When you think about it... reforge keep prefix/suffix were "filler" crafts. They filled people with joy and filled many players' equipment screen, inventory, and stash tabs with useable items.
It's not news that GGG doesn't want deterministic crafting... This community got so entitled... There are real problems with PoE, sure. Crafting not being the way some people like it is not it.
@@truestory6998 The issue is they are removing crafting systems without providing replacements. Or is "chaos spamming" their understanding of a fun crafting system? That's the meaning of "non-deterministic" crafting, just pure luck and randomness. Utilizing harvest to play around with mods was my favorite part of the game. And it is my understanding that it was already massively nerfed compared to the original Harvest league, which I didn't play. What they turned it into now is basically useless
@@holysecret2 By "removing crafting" you mean you can still do it, but it might not work first try (maybe third try?) and will cost a bit more? Ah, yeah. Not childish hyperbole at all. Sorry your "favorite part of the game" got nerfed, but just because you like it, doesnt mean it has to be the way you like it. PoE is not WoW or D4 with deterministic progression of gear. And there is a lot of room between deterministic and "spam chaos orb".
It's true. Honestly, I was kind of happy with the news that these filler crafts were going to be removed, with the assumption that end-game crafting would be a lot lot easier / faster since you wouldn't need tft to craft anymore, and of course, tainted currency. But with the *ACTUAL* changes, these filler crafts would've been gold in this sea of trash.
At this point it's pretty much clear GGG is obsessed with making crafting and the whole game as non-deterministic as possible. What they want you to do is gamble. Because GGG is a Chinese company now and the Chinese know gambling is way, way more addictive than a video game. The success of Diablo II was due to it's slot machine design - you run a boss over and over again. I am willing to bet this "vision" will tank their game. Making a good slot machine is a very complicated matter. First of all there needs to be a lever. The dopamine kick in gambling comes from the spin not the reward, the couple of seconds of tension when you know the result is about to be revealed. That is a problem for POE since the game is designed to reward the player for killing loads and loads of monsters not a specific one over and over again. Since the rewards drop at random times there is no lever so there is no tension and no dopamine. Pinnacle bosses are the exception they are in fact lever bosses but GGG designed pinnacle bosses behind a wall of time investment. They have multiple phases and take ages to kill. There is a sweet spot for addiction and none of the bosses have it, it just takes too long to kill any of them even if you trade for the items you need to open their arenas. The rush you get for a couple of seconds when Sirus or Uber Elder or Maven is almost down and the rewards are about to pop is nice but that's all you get a couple seconds of dopamine every 15 -20 minutes and that's not even close to enough. Yes a mirror tier boss killer is going to kill those bosses faster (well there are still cut scenes and memory games and all that crap) but at that point there's no tension anymore none of the items that drop mean anything when you are kitted in items worth thousands of divines. It's like playing roulette for 50 bucks a a pop when you're a billionaire, win or lose it doesn't matter so there is no tension.
transmute - alt spam - imprint - regal - exalt. That's the vison. And the devs will have a blast trading those items between themselves and other neckbeards once everybody is gone
I find it actually amazing how many core components of the game were completely destroyed with 3.19 There are so many it is actually hard to track them all.
It's sad that this is my first ever league participating in, although i barely understand what the community disagrees on, it's still sad to give this kind of impression to new players, I'm just taking this league as a learning point, trying different builds, and getting comfortable over the game's mechanics, i really enjoy watching people play it as well on twitch and such, so thanks for the content ;)
if you are completely new the points that are the source of drama wont affect you that much/not for a longer time. sure in maps you will get less loot compared to last leagues (which you cant compare) but its still playable and you can still get to the endgame. i hope for you that most of the drama gets fixed/reverted by the time you are a bit further into the game
For your first league just experimenting with builds and getting through the campaign then you won’t notice this too much yet. It mainly affects players working on the endgame, where you need a ton of crafting mats to craft the best endgame gear. Those mats have had their drop rates reduced by ~90% this league, so it’s very noticeable to them.
The negativity is really out of control this league.. I think it's *mostly* exaggerated.. the game still functions and plays like it did before the loot inflation got out if control in recent leagues.. The crafting is a big issue right now for sure, but it's something a newer player would never touch anyway. I say stick with it.. without the reference of previous leagues, you have no concept of "what they took away." I've barely played for a few leagues now (been still following the game closely though), so coming back this league the game feels fine to me.. there are issues with this league for sure.. but like I said... the negativity is really blown out proportion.. though I really get the issues with crafting as that's the only thing that keeps me playing a new league past a few weeks.. but like you, I'm just using this time to test out some low investment builds and get more familiar with some of the mechanics I've missed the past few leagues.
This video is for the twelve people that could grasp the crafting concept well, and have access to the massive amount of currency required to do it. Nothing to see here.
As a programmer I have a theory of how these initial harvest prices were done. Someone looked at harvest plant spawn chance weights and converted them by reverting the values. So basically if finding T4 plant with fracture was 1 in 50000 chance the price became 50000 Lifeforce. Could be iteresting to generate a table to see what plant spawn chances were before based on initial(pre-nerfed) Lifeforce prices.
@@rafaklimek6527 yeah the issue is I think sometimes they make decisions with the players who are playing 8+ hours a day in rather than players who play 4 or less. Plus those 50k crafts aren’t worth the effort imo. I completely understand if it were deterministic, but it took work to get it ok, but the work needed to get rng is a no for me.
As an alcoholic I also have a theory of how these initial harvest prices were done. Someone looked at the bottom of a Bottle and converted to piss water.
@@g76agi well when ur trying to get a usefull amulate and u already got 4 good afixes after say 200 essence slams . Now u need two more . Ull bench craft one and u slam one . F slam was bad u end up with 4 good mods on the item . Thats like having at best 66% of the item slot working for u .its a bad item then
@@MR.G.A.A 4 good mods, you craft one, thats 5, you slam one bad one, thats 5/6 mods you want, so you have 83.4% of a "perfect" item, doesnt seem like its "ruined" to me
@@g76agi for some players, me also included, love to min max their builds to some certain extend. Also I enjoying crafting my own perfect items so i can totally know the feelings of 5/6 mods are good and that last mod are like "regen 1.4 life per second" or "+1 max energy shield". Really hate that feelings.
Fully agree that keep prefixes/suffixes should be brought back. I don't think GGG considers it "filler" crafts though, but part of the "some ones with deterministic outcomes that were incredibly RNG-gated before". After the livestream, I tried to get a keep suffixes in Standard to finish a craft but didn't get any in 200+ harvests (got 3 keep prefixes), so I can relate to the definition but it's still a terrible move. I hope they fix this soon.
Diablo 2 was just hell and baal runs with bots. It took 5 minutes and you just spent time trying to snipe boss loots. Poe as it stands isn't anything like diablo 2. Can you farm a boss like meph in under a minute and drop an item as valuable as a divine? Nah still takes longer and is limited by maps and other things. D2 is a completely different beast that never got further development. This is just an action rpg with no loot
Like D2, except 10 times harder because there is like 10 times the amount of uniques and rare mods. It's impossible to target farm good rare drops or specific unique drops, whereas you could do mephisto or baal runs and realistically expect one of your desired uniques or set items in a couple of hours.
Minions are fine 🗿 Other archetipes need to choose a different ability every patch and it's honestly time for minion players to drop the idea of swarming and specialize
Genuine question from someone who wasnt around at the time: How did people craft before Harvest was introduced? Because if the removal of these Harvestcraft options makes certain crafts unfeasible, there must have been a feasible option before Harvest? Or did people not see that as an issue before because there was no easy solution like harvest?
Wisdom scrolls for the first 2-3 weeks of the league, then buy a good base and chaos spam for something better (Talisman era). We also used uniques like bringer of rain - using that saved you the trouble of finding usable yellows in 2 slots + no need to link chest. The game also had fewer (almost no) end game goals. Your fun was whatever you made it, the only real goals were (1) get to 100, or (2) do in HC what you did in SC.
People just can't deal with having their toys taken away (or slightly diminished, lets be honest.) The game has been based around crafting from day one and there are of course still thousands of ways to make cool and powerful items. This is just cashing in on the current hate train
tl:dr complaining in the most elitest fashion from the top 0.5% playerbase. "This is useless, I could just run an uber cortex and get soo many of these!" So their initial costs were bad, and they adjusted. Alright. But you must be out of your mind if you think doing an uber cortex is a viable option for Most poe players. In fact, some of the harvest changes, I would argue, are better for the lower end players, as it stands now, with current cost adjustments.
The only thing i can't understand is who benefits from having less options to craft, less loot and less fun overall. I would asume that new (good) crafting options and more meaningful loot would make people happy and happy people spend more money. What even is " The Vision" anymore? Having a game that only Chris "Egghead" Wilson from Grinding Gear Games enjoys playing?
Chris said he wanted items that are dropped on the ground to feel exiting. I guess nuking crafting was the way to do it. I remember the OG harverst (in standard) and how much fun I had with it. After that, the ONLY craft I cared about was "keeping pre/suf" (I was literally spamming the others on random shit: more def on shields and armors, crit on jewels, chaos on cluster jewels). I personally like how you mentioned that they thought 50000 life force was a chaos orb. it really puts things into perspective.
They want you to get "wrecked"... That's the whole point. Think about this: Someone had to design the original Harvest system. That person had an idea of what crafting is all about. What you are seeing now is designers who don't understand aspects of the game they are "adjusting".
When they say they move all Harvest to the bench, no one thinks they took”keep pre and suffixes “ away. I personally thought it would be easier with all available crafts in 3.18 and we just need to farm wildseeds
I would even add that the more basic crafting is also hardly nerved. We cannot freely change resistances (bacause of the cost) and socketed colors, it is just insane what they did.
I rarely sold my craft's. I tended to use them even on garbage items. The reforge keep suffix/prefix was my favorite to use. It made me excited to pick up items. If i got a item with 3 good suffixes/prefixes i would gamble to see if I can fix them.
First of all, I learned more about crafting in this video than GGG has ever known about their own crafting system I suspect. Holy shit dude. I'm sorry to everybody who loved crafting.
GGG 100% understands this. They want you to have to spend more to get a good item. Part of that is being able to fully brick an item. They don't like deterministic crafting and have said so many times.
@@ikashibimauler The sad thing is, most people also don't care about playing one character. id reather be at a point where I can finish my character (feeling happy and done, not all perfect gear) and then move on to the next, rather than hitting some dogshit craft wall that will just take weeks of rng to get over burning me out and ultimately ending any fun I had or drive to do it again for the next character.
the hilarious part about the tainted fusing orb now is that a 1 in 10 chance is just the cost of a 5 link bench craft times 10 = a 6link, which is exactly what the actual cost is. it's 150 fusing + 150 vaals to 5link a corrupted item and 1500 fusing + 1500 vaals to 6link. what this means is that you're actually just better off using the bench outright.
Great Video, BTW, what you guys are thinking about weights on mods ? im having hard time trying to craft a 2 resistances + good ES ring. wich is ridiculous, even using fossils or essences
It's so annoying that a guy like this who contributed a shit ton of useful information to the public will be perma ban like that. He said some nasty stuff but comon this guy promoted the game for a long time. He only said those stuffs because the current situation of the game is garbage and I'm sure if they fix the issue this guy will post a new video praising GGG for the changes. Sadly it won't go there anymore but still I hope it is not permanent. This is literally his life and he shared it.
The game is a random rare fiesta and wisdom/portal scroll picking simulator at this point. When I am mapping I feel like a homeless guy crawling down the street begging for money. It's a really sad game. Gambling for everything without proper crafting system is awful. The only thing why poe was so fun and different was because of the different ways you can manipulate your items.
They want such items to be uber mega endgame and for you just to farm more, play more, hence possibility of you spending money. Instead 2 weeks, challenges done, bye. They don't have many ways of extending playtime otherwise. People in 2-3 days are 100 basically and done everything. They want you to be able to craft something like that in 2 months time or so. Such item to be uber super rare, so they would be a bragging rights, like in some oldschool games, when you had a drop, that you had to farm 1000 times. It was something legendary. That's what they are aiming I think, not random shoot bubbles game with firework loot, done in a week or less, gbay.
To all the people that is rejoicing that the 0.001% is getting screwed cause they can't craft their gg mirrored gear, have fun with all your semi-trashy rolled rares costing 10x more than before :)
@@zelassin Normally I'm on your side, but everyone is at loss here. The top percentile of players who through extensive knowledge of the economy scheme their way to several mirrors worth of gear may be just as toxic as the eternal kajk irl. But purple Matt is right, ESPECIALLY casual players are fucked on so many levels. They will eventually reach a point where it isn't worth playing anymore because nothing good drops and the (somewhat) GG metacrafted shit that would normally go for 50ex is now at least 200.
@@bravefastrabbit770 Agreed, people don't seem to understand how EVERYBODY benefited from the crafters. Where do they think all the 10c-10ex gear came from?
My analogy for what GGG is providing us is based of expectations. We expect GGG with providing a Wedding cake for 100 people, instead they show up with a platter with a dozen of not pretty cupcakes. So we complain and we tell them, please man, we just want our expectations to be met here. So they provide a new platter now with 2 extra cupcakes, so now we have a whole 14 cupcakes. But that is only for the loot, and for the scourge currencies, our expectations that GGG have trained us to expect was not met by a long shot, in terms of communication, and nerfs. Now we are sitting here with a feeling that we should be able to supply 100 people with delicious cake, and we get 14 gross over done muffins with cream on top. -_- Then we have crafting, Poe is fun because of crafting and loot. I love crafting I have been crafting even before harvest was a thing. Crafting has been stripped down to pre-harvest levels and that is simply not okay. That is GGG serving up a main course, we are expecting to get some delicious dishes, and ton of options, then they show up with instant noodles with 4 different flavours, fossil flavour, essence flavour, beast flavour and harvest flavour. Sure they have different flavours but deep down we all know that they are all the same now.
In the soviet revolution, "the people" complained about farmers and that all the land they owned was unfair and belonged to "the people". The farmers were dragged out of their homes and killed. Then "the people" starved to death because there was no one left who knew how to farm. I'm seeing similarities here in that a lot of people don't seem to understand how integral the crafters were to the market and progression through the game. 1. I'm poor due to loot nerf. 2. Good gear on the market is rarer and more expensive due to loot & crafting nerf. 3. AN mobs are dangerous as hell. Result: I'm getting one shot in T2 maps with a PC meta build despite my stacked defenses.
Exactly this, failed crafting project that were done by high players usually drop in price after some time and became affordable to almost anyone who farmed regularly
@@sanmaru5555 I wouldn't mind if it loot was buffed & crafting nerfed or vise versa, but a massive nerf to both just seems....I can't think of a word, so I'll just go with dumb. Really really dumb.
Man, you are completely ignorant about USSR and, by extent, the Soviet revolution in Russia. Shame on you since information on Soviet government, collectivization and 'NOT farmers' ('kulaks' were rural loan sharks, not farmers) is freely available, although you need to look it up in a sea of anti-soviet propaganda both old and new.
at 15:05 you can solve the problem of having 3 prefix 2 suffix by beastcrafting "remove prefix add suffix". doesnt change the fundamental fact that the "penalty" for filling up the prefixes was changed from "pay whatever harvest keep suffix costs and continue" to "1/3 chance to brick your item"
Yes complete lottery but with minimal options. Influenced and all that jazz came after the fact for the most part. Crafting as we know it today doesn't function without harvest.
Don't listen to this guy. We had a ton of options to make good items with relative consistency. They just got a millon times more consistent, and therefore, more powerful with harvest
3.20 launch will probably see less than 100k players - out of sheer protest. Because players know, from painful experience, that GGG will fuck that up.... stacked on top of their unmoving position on the current drop and crafting situation has made, and will continue to keep, their game effectively unplayable.
12:50 If you get 3 prefixes and 2 suffixes you can still do bestiary prefix to suffix. If you get 3 prefixes AND 3 suffixes which is unlikely, you can still annul for 66.67% chance of success. It's not the end of the world. I agree we should get reforge keeping pref/suff back, but you're making it way more drastic than it really is.
path of math should know this is what you should do in the case if you hit not influenced suffix. Which makes me very disgusted with him coz he did not mention that beastcraft on purpose
Wait until the problem of not enough divines exist for metamods and they go to 400-600+c each. As we need divines for both items and for metacrafting. I think the economy is gonna implode, right now its in a massive spiral I cant sell half decent items at 5c and below. The last week of Sentinel had more ppl trading than it does now. Economic vortex coming soon next week or 2 for sure.
Totally agree with you about this! But you know what, ggg did take care of us because we barely have any divine orb dropped so we don't have to craft anymore! Just fractured, essenced and bench, problem solved!
the thing most nowadays seem to want is a somewhat reasonable way to craft or get usable items. the reduced item drops would be ok if the items which droped would have a higher chance of having stats according to the itemlvl.
I would prefer way fewer bases, rares and everything else but drop lots of currency, map consumables etc... Who needs a billion items dropped with only .0000000001% of drops are ever equipped on an endgame player.
With fossils. The difference is, before Harvest there were no Uber Uber bosses, and current bosses (and game in general) are balanced around power that only Harvest can give to players.
For me crafting has always been dead because it has always been prohibitively expensive and complicated to where it was impossible for me to even attempt.
na bro you just never put in the time to gain the knowledge and it never even required a lot of time to learn, you could watch a 5 minute video to learn how to craft bows +2 amulets etc...it was never as complicated as you make it out to be, sorry.
I generally think you have level headed takes on most stuff but I don't think the +2 amulet argument is doing you any favors when looking at the current game because we just got a mechanic that cost less and will net you a stronger result -> ~Your craft cost suggestion involves at a bare minimum 1ex(div)(benchcraft) + augment craft(which previously would run from 3-10ex(div)+ depending on time of league buying it off tft(not to mention if you didn't want to use tft it would never exist for you). not accounting base cost you already 4-11ex deep on an amulet with no other stats besides +2 ~Now in current game you can pick up a fractured amulet of pretty much any type for 50-100c thanks to the new fractured drops you can throw a few defeaning essence of scorn on it for 40 crit multi, do that till you have 4 mods, with 2 extra mods being neglible if reversed for your build(will take a few essences tops), anul so you have a three mod item, then buy a reflection of kalandra for 1 divine orb difficulty 10 -> this will be a 50% chance to double both the +1 to +2 as well as make 40 crit multi go to 80 crit multi(more with catalysts), and an average cost of this amulet will be 2 divines + 100-200c which is less expensive than the old method with harvest on top of being a much higher damage outcome. There are similar options like this for ring slot as well which can give you very powerful outcomes for pretty minimal investment when comparing to using meta crafts + harvest. Also, fractured items being more common are disgustingly strong with eldritch currency which has been proven to be BiS for most body armour/glove/boot/helmet slots which makes these items even more affordable to craft than ever especially considering you can finish up a prefix or suffix pool of the item with exalted orbs which cost less than eldritch currency now. Previously just getting a good base would cost multi ex(divine) to even start the craft. Just yesterday I picked up t1 life regen rate on each gear slot I needed for less than 100c for all three pieces(previously these fractures wouldn't have really existed on the market Clearly our current crafting isn't dead, it isn't as good as recombinators which was undoubtedly the strongest crafting power we have had to date. But I don't think extreme statements like crafting is dead is a very productive statement to make when its a fairly big stretch considering the current tools we have at out disposal to use still.
Fractured items are indeed powerful, not as much as recombinators, but still powerful nonetheless. But with the example of using the Lake of Kalandra to make crazy items, it only applies to jewellery and is also only temporary. They can, and most probably will, remove the lake when 3.19 ends, leaving us with nothing but fractured + essence spam. This is okay for average gear, but GG end game crafting is gone. I feel like my character is at the end of it's progression at level 92 because every subsequent step requires days of grinding for some low chance at winning at a slot machine. Any meaningful upgrade now will take days/weeks with how rare it will be.
i agree. he normally does good content but he got stuck in the reddit downvote spiral, hating everything without having it tried, like so many others. there are so many good uniques now to abuse for new builds, we have so many fractured items, we still have fossils and essences which i usually prefer for all my gear, etc. just because one cant easily get a +2 amulet anymore etc. doesent mean crafting is dead. there are "most often" very good alternatives for you best in slot item that are just different and not actually worse. like some increased mana reservation efficiency on the amulet or very high attributs (all attributes) or some x damage taken as shenanigans, etc. also plenty unique amultes that are very nice for many builds. i liked keep prefix reroll suffix etc. as a backup plan, but in the end you can still either start over or annul or if not influenced beastcraft or exalted slam or work with eldritch currency or etc.
For the most part there was pre-nerfed fossils which had fossil specific mods like serrated with maim support on the chest and stuff like that. Fossils used to be MUCH stronger in the past. But if you look at mirror tier items from pre-harvest, they were overall just... bad. It was fine due to the game difficulty back then, but those items now-a-days are mostly considered "meh" items pretty much.
The crafting meta pre-harvest was just sad. If I remember correctly you had 2 ways to craft items: 1. Fossil spam and bench craft to finish. 2. Alteration Spam for important mod, Regal and multimod with bench.
very big eye opener, I had no idea that it was this bad... what I know is that it was "deterministic" but it wasn't that direct, and required a LOT of investment for it to work "deterministically" (very high chance). like this? I don't see how chase rare items are going to be made basically now, who is going to risk so much and try to craft them like this?
3:01 Reforge influence is not a chaos orb, because it guarantees a mod and it respects metamods. Even moreso with the fractured and synthesized crafts, these crafts are huge because you can use them on items that are already crafted, it's not the same as finding an item on the ground. I believe if and when we get reroll values back, and perhaps reforge keep back, harvest and the game as a whole will be fixed, and these costs reductions would not have been necessary.
next manifesto 3 months from now.... problem: harvest is underwhelming and not used by a lot of players! Solution: remove harvest completely from game....
I have a questions and it has nothing to do with this video. I assume a lot of people farm a tabula rasa on ba when playing ssf. How long did it take? Previously it took me about 3 hours max. I literally spend all day yesterday farming one and got 2 cards and burned out on the game. Am I mad/unlucky or did the drop nerfs indeed cause this?
In an awakener orb situation, if you hit the third suffix, can't you do Einhar prefix to suffix? Similarly in +2 amu's situation, I think in order to get to two suffixes you can Einhar craft an aspect. But for me, I think one of the worst thing is the removal of "reforge+"; it was actually quite important in some crafts I wanted to do
Yes you can but the third suffix you're gonna get will be completely RNG. At least with reforge keep suffixes that we had, you could remove a prefix without touching the suffixes, and then do a reforge fire/cold/lightning or else to get the resistance or mod that you wanted as the last suffix.
Yep. Made a detailed comment on reddit about the implications these changes had on crafting as a whole before the league came out and was told to just go and play SSF lol, hope he's enjoying the shit he's eating
I have mixed feelings on this as a low intermediate skilled player who plays very casually. On one hand I think this levels the playing field a bit between high end players. On the other hand, why in the hell would you decide to do that so late into the game? You've already got people who love crafting in these ways and so if you try to totally change crafting you're gonna lose your playerbase, and there's no guarantee that you'll get new players because you're essentially making a new game where you have no idea if people are interested. I think this is a very bad idea.
Poe economy isn't like the real world. When top players can destroy game content and craft good items, it fills the economy with higher quality cheaper items for other players to use. I'm not a crafter and I play ssf and can do all non Uber content week 1, these changes effect new/casual players way more than it seems, everyone is nerfed hard.
Their actions seem to indicate they think rare items are too strong. It seems like they want to push people back to picking up items off the ground and identifying them. I'm all for that, those items need to be way way better though. Once you go through the crafting process for this and add up all the cost, it becomes reasonable to just buy an ashes at the stars pretty quickly. I haven't looked recently but I think it was around 15 divnes last I looked. These changes all push the game towards being more dependent on good uniques, and more dependent on identifying rare items in the hopes you pick up something decent in the early game.
In regards to crafting. Just bring back the old crafting options.. and that pretty much solves the communities gripes regarding crafting.(not including costs still being really high even after the patch). Alternatively. They could unfuck normal crafting. Harvest existing is pretty much a massive bandaid to the absolute dumpster fire that base game crafting is. Items dropping good are already a 1 in 40 million chance of being anything worthwhile. Let alone alteration spamming, regalling, scouring, chaos slamming, Exalt slamming(HAHAH), ETC. and then the measly non meta mod crafting bench of a single locked to prefix or suffix modifier. There are so many ways they could go in fixing the crafting system and making it better or fixing the loot system and making farming for rares actually worthwhile. The simplest idea being just making it so you actually get better and better shit the higher tier maps you do.. lol. What a revolutionary idea I know. Anyway. Hopefully they at least unfuck crafting
They need to get rid of the whole fucking gambling angle and let players do a line by line cut and paste. Just make it expensive for the highest end crafts. But hey, they could even make it cheap as chips since there's no drops to pay for crafting anyway. Crafting needs to be FAR more deterministic for the average player. Let the gambling be the purview of the rich. The ORIGINAL harvest as it was during that league needs to be brought back but with the life force cost rather than random crafts.
It really doesn't make sense to take away useful options. If you want to rebalance them... sure, I can see some logic there (even if I disagree with the choice). However, to just remove useful options? How does that make things more fun?
After considering your first video and now this, I have to say, you are the best defense of this leagues nerfs. Taken out of the context of the game you're arguing for nothing but Reaganomics/Trickle Down economics. Sure, the peak gear trickles down to a few players who can farm the currency to buy it (the middle class) but dramatically remove the ability for the middle and lower class to vend their own finds and creations.
Remember they want everyone to experience the gamba of 2 months of rerolling or that one off chance of getting a good items on the ground. Everyone pulls he slot machine. Hers my idea for what they are doing. They are nerfing the crafts and drops and some of the skills to lower the effect of the build. Then over the next 3 expansions they will give the power back but put it on unique items so there is a reason to farm even more so. Sigh, this is the wow nerf/buff cycle.
about the awakener's orb example: if you have 3x prefixes and an open suffix (or you annul the third suffix) you can use the remove prefix add suffix beastcraft. not optimal as you get a random suffix but safe. of course if you get a full mod item you have to yolo annul.
@@DamienBaka yes but at least you have 100% of not briking it with the yolo annul, if you are ok with something good enough you can now clean the prefixes and try getting something good there (unless you have bad luck and get full prefixes again). this may vary depending on your goals.
@@Zave85 Yes, you have 100% chance to not brick it with an annul in this specific case, but you still have a high chance to brick it later when trying to craft the prefixes. Before you had 1 or 2 steps based on RNG, now pretty much all of the steps are pure RNG. That’s a lot of uncertainty. But you made a good point.
I never craft so I'm curious, what crafts did they remove that are super important? Also, was crafting just trash before harvest(when I began playing) because it still seemed really popular before then
Before harvest betrayal was in someway a reemplace tje way aisling works changed when hsrvest was released because it was used foe similar porpuse, also yeah the crafting before harvest at least for good items was a pain in the ass reserved for 1% of the base players the rest we basically buy the non perfect items from these 1% who craft, thats why when u see most old builds focus mostly on the use of many broken uniques and just 1 or 2 crazy crafted items because u will spend half league getting that 2 crafts
@@kure2658 Oh ok, ya I started in harvest and had quad tabs full of crafts and got so rich by selling on tft. The next league I struggled so hard lol That targeted crafting was so fun
Reconsidering the Devine/Exalt switch in the context of the rest of the severe nerfs, first off you can't get that extra 3% on your item's mods. it's essentially like they removed all of the div cards that give exalts (plus harbinger) making metamods WAAAY more expensive. I'm honestly just baffled as to why they've gone so hard on nerfing endgame power, any single one of the economic changes would have been a huge nerf on it's own. In conjunction it's like they want to completely eliminate the endgame experience as it was. the only thing I can think of is that the ultra juicing was killing the servers, but you'd think the Beyond change alone would have fixed that
One correction on the video, when you annul off the third useless suffix in the woke orbed item, you can do prefix to suffix beast craft to open a prefix and then clear out prefix
I came here to say this. To be honest there are a ton of good beast crafts that people forget about. And when it comes to crafting everyone always says “essence and fossils” but never beastcrafts. He almost didn’t say imprints, which you can see in the video he has a long pause because I think he realizes when he says “imprint the item” it’s like he realized “oh shit, beast crafts exist I forgot but fuck it, I’m on this rant might as well keep going” As I do agree with most of his points and much more expensive meta mods/crafting is, you can still make really good items, just have to do it the old way, with the combinations of essence/fossils/beast crafts, with what harvest we have left. People still made mirror tier items before harvest was introduced. It’s just much harder that’s all
Yes there are many useful beast crafts. But still the current crafting process involves a lot of rng. I wish GGG instead of limiting high end crafting with high RNG, they would make it a bit difficult to obtain but deterministic. That would encourage the players to grind with a certainity that they can obtain the item they want instead of just keeping your fingers crossed.
@@Benzil_infinity big comapnany, so they have people who got schooled in game-psychology and they all get taught that if players have RNG, they get more addicted and commited. thats where all this bullshit comes from.
The solution to current crafting is to add reforge keep prefix and suffix to bestiary. Which I'm sure is what GGG is planning to do. Since the craft is fairly of niche use and shouldn't be the goto crafting process for all items. Much like the prefix to suffix(vice-versa). But since it requires designing new beast, I guess they would only to do in next patch.
Yup. When I saw the list of Harvest crafts, I knew that the endgame crafting was dead, as well as the mirror tier crafting. You didn't mention it but with the removal of "augment influence" and "remove non add influence" items like 12L claw are literally impossible to make. EDIT: in 3.17 it took me 100ex and 20+ Aisling to finish my chest to get +1 curse, 35% avoid stun/elemental ailments and crafted life. For me at that time it was about a week of farming just gone. Imagine in 3.19 how much currency it would take if you get that kind of bad RNG. Not even worth trying.
I love your inquisitor build, i was wondering if putting an three golden dragons helmet was a bad idea (the unique that gives you 30% res but take away frozen) ty
The worst part for the second example is that because it is an influenced item you can't use eldritch currency to target annul prefixes since you can't use eldritch currencies on influenced items
@@TadianPlays well target annul in the sense that you can choose to annul a prefix or suffix depending on whether the Red currency or Blue currency is "Dominant". Dominance depends on which tier currency you used, if you used a lesser ichor and a greater ember then the Searing Exarch's influence is dominant. If the Searing Exarch is dominant then you can use an Eldritch Orb of Annulment to target a prefix, if the Eater of Worlds is dominant you can target a suffix.
well with recombinators going core I can understand why they would do this, maybe its a little less . . . im sorry what recoms are not going core? meta crafts on the bench are locked behind an orb with no div cards? . . .
For the most part I agree with this. I have always looked at crafting in this game a bit weird. I remember Demi used to craft all the time constantly exalt slamming annulment orbing and occasionally bricking. I remember they used to have an orb it still exist in standard even after all of these years that basically can save your item similar to what bestiary does, but that orb is way better. Any ways for a player like myself I wasn’t getting multiple mirrors so going through that type of process to craft a great item crazy. Then came awakened orbs and, harvest which to me made crafting a real option rather than this huge pool of rng and possibly bricking items. Sure the old way would be very rewarding to hit that after throwing lots of currency at them. However I’m not of the thought that I should have to spend so much of my time and resources attempting to create a good item. Mirror tier maybe but just a good upgrade so I can play the game nah. Then they gut it. I would really love to see Chris play this game from our perspective to see what he thinks is actually fun.
Thanks for the amulet example, which showed clearly how crafting is lacking after the changes. If we assume that harvest crafting is dead - is there any way to create decent items with pre-Harvest crafting methods?
Fossil spamming into a good set of mods , woke orbing if you want a double influenced piece . In general without harvest , it is still possible to craft decently high end gear. It is just extremely high variance (like fossils) or much more expensive than before (awakener orbing). Last league I crafted myself an int stack amulet with % int , %attr , %es and several other useful mods. used awakening orbs , 2 bases , alt spamming into good mods on said bases , then did the then 2ex suffixes cannot be changed . scoured . Then did keep suffix reforges into something useable. instead . Now you would probably have to settle for multimod (0 chance to hit actually good mods like int stacking spell damage mods). Sparing you the details , harvest nerfs technically didn't really add anything you couldn't do before . HOWEVER it made it alot more accessible. Reforge keep suffix/prefix is alot more accessible than spending 2 divines this league and then chaos orbing or nerfed harvest reforging your item EVERY chaos orb roll . If you were still trying to craft this league then you would use alot more veiled chaos orbing , beast crafting and betrayal in general. But those methods have a large chance to brick your items (beast craft can fill up your prefixes or suffixes slot meaning you get a shit mod there that you can't just lock your item for 2 divines and scour away. Or betrayal is typically straight controlled rngs. (Veiled slams tend to work out to be like a 1/2 or 1/3 with the proper item locking and setup).
At first i was defending the harvest changes and explained to people why harvest is not dead and how its still super useful. By that point i thought they only removed augment and filler crafts. My mind was blown when i realized that they actually removed keep prefix/suffix, reroll more likely and gutted more/less likely. What small amount of knowledge about crafting do you need to have to call those crafts filler... :O Pretty much every mid-endgame craft (if still possible) will cost much more and/or have so much more rng tied to it (which pretty much every crafter hates... deterministic crafting is so so much better) And i dont even want to think how people would actually try to craft mirror tier items now. My god the cost to craft those now. Dont think a lot of people would actually try to craft t hose in 3.19
They also nerfed the "turn essences/oils/..." into other of the same tier, but making the cost based on stack sizes. To be fair it probably should have been this way from the start, but I used it the past 3 or 4 leagues to make currency, and I can't anymore, and afaik they didn't announce any nerfs to harvest, just promising to improve the QoL
I myself am not a crafter - BUT, i utilized some of these "filler" crafts quite often to make good items / sellable items OR recover crafted items its insane.
Most cost efficient way to 6l with tainted currencies is actually to do 2 linked sockets on the bench. Do it until you have 2 links and 4 links, and then use the tainted fusing
I actually don't mind these changes. I am not an advanced crafter, so the only methods I know are fossile or essence spamming. Previously I may lose value on an item that could be potentially further crafted or fixed by harvest, but now its fine cause the harvest nerfs. Even lets say in an extreme state, where the only available crafting method left in the game is chaos spamming, then those 1% crafter would have no advantages over causal players any more. And GGG always wanted to nerf the 1%. So now it's in a good direction.
The most interesting take away from the video for me was how he was saying "CRAFTING IS DEAD" yet it just got more expensive. Maybe even twice as expensive or more, but it's still possible as he showed how.
you guys have to face it: ggg doesnt understand their own game. i know it's hard to accept but they dont. they dont understand how the economy works. they dont understand how ppl craft, and they dont understand why people like poe.
You have to look at it from a broader perspective. For PoE 2, we definitely have to shift down a few gears. It's a strategically good time to start now. That way the game still has plenty of time to recover from those decisions with 3.19. Better than doing it a season or two before PoE 2. PoE 2 will be fundamentally different in terms of gameplay. At the beginning, PoE 2 will almost certainly not have as many deep systems as PoE 1 has had since Betrayal. Es wäre kein guter Übergang, wenn nach dem Release von PoE 2 viele Spieler weiterhin sehr viel Zeit in PoE 1 verbringen, weil es einfach so viel größer und tiefer ist und jeder seine Routine entwickelt hat.
OK, as a melee only player I didn't know it was so easy to craft +2 amulets. I knew that a lot of spells actually gained damage from levels, but crafting +2 was too easy
I'm finding it harder and harder to hop onto the game and continue grinding because I don't have the drive to grind out hours and hours of harvest just to attempt to get the crafts needed to swap over to BFBB. I'm running t14+ maps and not getting shit for currency and usually not even getting red maps back to run again. I'm at a loss with this league since I skipped out on the last 2-3 leagues because of work. I had fun the first day or two but actually attempting to swap builds now, I'm seeing all the problems and how unrealistic it is for me to swap day by day. I'll wait it out a few more days and see if things improve, but for now I'm just not going to waste my time mapping.
Mirror items before harvest were essentially life and res with maybe 1 influence mod or whatever. It was nothing like the items we see today, but the game was also much easier. Ubers are much harder than any content from back then, but itemization went backwards 2 years.
U don't need to craft both cannot roll attack mods and pref can't change for +2. You can just multimod + prefix cannot change + "x" fire damage to attacks prefix (if you have 2 open prefix).
And if everything stays like this, then the prices of good items will rise exponentially. If in pre-3.19 casual player could buy something, now he is in the ass. There are people for whom 10ex is a lot of money. That's fucked up.
I'm sure most people are stuck in progression and probably don't have too too much currency to start thinking about crafting any real "endgame" items yet. So right now the whole itemization is taking a backseat compared to archnemesis and loot drops.
But the reality is that even if you greatly increased loot and everyone was rich all of a sudden, the new harvest doesn't really allow for any sort of crafting to happen. Essentially, there's no reason to make any currency that would be required to craft endgame stuff, since crafting those items is just gambling now.
For the giga sweatlord 1%, it's not the end of the world to spend 20 ex on an item and end up annulling a modifier you awakener orbed, but for the vast majority of players, that is hours and hours and potentially even days worth of grinding that is going completely in the toilet.
EDIT:
This post sums it up quite well. I agree with him, these are the 4 really important ones which should come back.
www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wwxyrj/upcoming_harvest_cost_reductions_are_a_good_start/
Honestly, even though reddit is a cesspool, there's a few good posts, and the more I read some of those the more sense they make.
The entirety of his vision being shoehorned into the game as it is is what broke the camel's back.
The vision isn't viable, the "balance" they see and what we see isn't the same, being difficult isn't the same as being unfair, and the communication is non-existent.
It just doesn't work. I went into details on reddit, but I can't be arsed to give feedback again if they're not gonna use it at all. So what's the point of engaging, if it means nothing?
They just made uniques more valuable, what are you talking about?
Craft made more frustrating, not less powerful. Because cost of items will raise with difficulty of making the item.
Players overall will be weaker, but i don't see a problem. With enough currency you can do any content on any build. And previous leagues people got currency more than they needed.
@@ljohabogdanov7596 You make underpowered uniques more valuable by making them good, not by making everything else crap.
Tell me, how would you craft a 250% phys damage 2h weapon now? Answer is - you wouldn't.
So now our cap has lowered by a LOT, and uniques still aren't good.
You literally CAN'T GET some of the gear we used to be able to.
It's a nerf fest, the more you look at it the worse it gets.
PPL told in Sentinel ...we like pick up items from flooooor it's coooool... GGG said..- YES!!! WE DO!!!
i am noob only played POE for like a year but I am not interested in grinding hours and hours to make builds better so I don't get what they are thinking.
When you think about it... reforge keep prefix/suffix were "filler" crafts.
They filled people with joy and filled many players' equipment screen, inventory, and stash tabs with useable items.
It's not news that GGG doesn't want deterministic crafting... This community got so entitled... There are real problems with PoE, sure. Crafting not being the way some people like it is not it.
@@truestory6998 The issue is they are removing crafting systems without providing replacements. Or is "chaos spamming" their understanding of a fun crafting system? That's the meaning of "non-deterministic" crafting, just pure luck and randomness. Utilizing harvest to play around with mods was my favorite part of the game. And it is my understanding that it was already massively nerfed compared to the original Harvest league, which I didn't play. What they turned it into now is basically useless
Need more stash -> Spend money -> GGG more profit :D
@@holysecret2 By "removing crafting" you mean you can still do it, but it might not work first try (maybe third try?) and will cost a bit more? Ah, yeah. Not childish hyperbole at all.
Sorry your "favorite part of the game" got nerfed, but just because you like it, doesnt mean it has to be the way you like it.
PoE is not WoW or D4 with deterministic progression of gear. And there is a lot of room between deterministic and "spam chaos orb".
It's true.
Honestly, I was kind of happy with the news that these filler crafts were going to be removed, with the assumption that end-game crafting would be a lot lot easier / faster since you wouldn't need tft to craft anymore, and of course, tainted currency.
But with the *ACTUAL* changes, these filler crafts would've been gold in this sea of trash.
At this point it's pretty much clear GGG is obsessed with making crafting and the whole game as non-deterministic as possible. What they want you to do is gamble. Because GGG is a Chinese company now and the Chinese know gambling is way, way more addictive than a video game. The success of Diablo II was due to it's slot machine design - you run a boss over and over again. I am willing to bet this "vision" will tank their game. Making a good slot machine is a very complicated matter. First of all there needs to be a lever. The dopamine kick in gambling comes from the spin not the reward, the couple of seconds of tension when you know the result is about to be revealed. That is a problem for POE since the game is designed to reward the player for killing loads and loads of monsters not a specific one over and over again. Since the rewards drop at random times there is no lever so there is no tension and no dopamine. Pinnacle bosses are the exception they are in fact lever bosses but GGG designed pinnacle bosses behind a wall of time investment. They have multiple phases and take ages to kill. There is a sweet spot for addiction and none of the bosses have it, it just takes too long to kill any of them even if you trade for the items you need to open their arenas. The rush you get for a couple of seconds when Sirus or Uber Elder or Maven is almost down and the rewards are about to pop is nice but that's all you get a couple seconds of dopamine every 15 -20 minutes and that's not even close to enough. Yes a mirror tier boss killer is going to kill those bosses faster (well there are still cut scenes and memory games and all that crap) but at that point there's no tension anymore none of the items that drop mean anything when you are kitted in items worth thousands of divines. It's like playing roulette for 50 bucks a a pop when you're a billionaire, win or lose it doesn't matter so there is no tension.
I think we're going about crafting all wrong.
What if we just spam chaos until we get all the rolls we want?
( /s)
Wasn't it oryginally disgned taht way? :) Coming back to the basics.
Dont forget to exalt slam after.
@@mcrywolf But make sure to close your eyes
transmute - alt spam - imprint - regal - exalt. That's the vison. And the devs will have a blast trading those items between themselves and other neckbeards once everybody is gone
that is how i got all my endgame gear mirror tear
I find it actually amazing how many core components of the game were completely destroyed with 3.19
There are so many it is actually hard to track them all.
It's sad that this is my first ever league participating in, although i barely understand what the community disagrees on, it's still sad to give this kind of impression to new players, I'm just taking this league as a learning point, trying different builds, and getting comfortable over the game's mechanics, i really enjoy watching people play it as well on twitch and such, so thanks for the content ;)
if you are completely new the points that are the source of drama wont affect you that much/not for a longer time. sure in maps you will get less loot compared to last leagues (which you cant compare) but its still playable and you can still get to the endgame.
i hope for you that most of the drama gets fixed/reverted by the time you are a bit further into the game
For your first league just experimenting with builds and getting through the campaign then you won’t notice this too much yet. It mainly affects players working on the endgame, where you need a ton of crafting mats to craft the best endgame gear. Those mats have had their drop rates reduced by ~90% this league, so it’s very noticeable to them.
Quit poe now that you are new. Also everyone complaints about the game because they destroyed it.
The negativity is really out of control this league.. I think it's *mostly* exaggerated.. the game still functions and plays like it did before the loot inflation got out if control in recent leagues.. The crafting is a big issue right now for sure, but it's something a newer player would never touch anyway. I say stick with it.. without the reference of previous leagues, you have no concept of "what they took away." I've barely played for a few leagues now (been still following the game closely though), so coming back this league the game feels fine to me.. there are issues with this league for sure.. but like I said... the negativity is really blown out proportion.. though I really get the issues with crafting as that's the only thing that keeps me playing a new league past a few weeks.. but like you, I'm just using this time to test out some low investment builds and get more familiar with some of the mechanics I've missed the past few leagues.
Like others have said. If you're new, most of the drama wont really affect you, so you can keep playing without any problems tbh :)
This video is for the twelve people that could grasp the crafting concept well, and have access to the massive amount of currency required to do it. Nothing to see here.
As a programmer I have a theory of how these initial harvest prices were done. Someone looked at harvest plant spawn chance weights and converted them by reverting the values. So basically if finding T4 plant with fracture was 1 in 50000 chance the price became 50000 Lifeforce. Could be iteresting to generate a table to see what plant spawn chances were before based on initial(pre-nerfed) Lifeforce prices.
No way for that with 0.01 multiplier or something added - we now get lifeforce just enough for a single shitty craft..
@@rafaklimek6527 yeah the issue is I think sometimes they make decisions with the players who are playing 8+ hours a day in rather than players who play 4 or less. Plus those 50k crafts aren’t worth the effort imo. I completely understand if it were deterministic, but it took work to get it ok, but the work needed to get rng is a no for me.
I guess they didn't hire any testers
I'm convinced they play tested all the changes to harvest seeds and lake of kalandra prior to the loot nerf.
As an alcoholic I also have a theory of how these initial harvest prices were done. Someone looked at the bottom of a Bottle and converted to piss water.
Chris is trying to get us closer to his desired "slamming exalt into +12 life mod"
i slamed exalt on amulate , got 8% to armour , ruined my item
@@MR.G.A.A how did it ruin it tho? It didnt have a mod, and it has it, you can still equip it right?
@@g76agi well when ur trying to get a usefull amulate and u already got 4 good afixes after say 200 essence slams . Now u need two more . Ull bench craft one and u slam one . F slam was bad u end up with 4 good mods on the item . Thats like having at best 66% of the item slot working for u .its a bad item then
@@MR.G.A.A 4 good mods, you craft one, thats 5, you slam one bad one, thats 5/6 mods you want, so you have 83.4% of a "perfect" item, doesnt seem like its "ruined" to me
@@g76agi for some players, me also included, love to min max their builds to some certain extend. Also I enjoying crafting my own perfect items so i can totally know the feelings of 5/6 mods are good and that last mod are like "regen 1.4 life per second" or "+1 max energy shield". Really hate that feelings.
Fully agree that keep prefixes/suffixes should be brought back. I don't think GGG considers it "filler" crafts though, but part of the "some ones with deterministic outcomes that were incredibly RNG-gated before". After the livestream, I tried to get a keep suffixes in Standard to finish a craft but didn't get any in 200+ harvests (got 3 keep prefixes), so I can relate to the definition but it's still a terrible move. I hope they fix this soon.
Back to good old loot-picking D2-like PoE. Yay, Chris Wilson's vision 👍🏻
Diablo 2 was just hell and baal runs with bots. It took 5 minutes and you just spent time trying to snipe boss loots.
Poe as it stands isn't anything like diablo 2. Can you farm a boss like meph in under a minute and drop an item as valuable as a divine? Nah still takes longer and is limited by maps and other things.
D2 is a completely different beast that never got further development. This is just an action rpg with no loot
Maybe he wanna come back to the "root". I just can' understand the weird obsession GGG have with D2 LOL
You don't have 10 hours a day looking throught dropted rares ? Wut?
Like D2, except 10 times harder because there is like 10 times the amount of uniques and rare mods. It's impossible to target farm good rare drops or specific unique drops, whereas you could do mephisto or baal runs and realistically expect one of your desired uniques or set items in a couple of hours.
you mean running around like headless chickens and having minimal knowledge about the game ?
Press 'F' to pay respect( then proceed to do the same for loot->minions->harvest->fun->POE->GGG)
Minions are fine 🗿 Other archetipes need to choose a different ability every patch and it's honestly time for minion players to drop the idea of swarming and specialize
How did people make items before harvest?
They played with sticks and rocks and stayed out until the sun went down
15:30 Can you use Eldritch Chaos orb? EDIT: Cannot be used on influenced items.
Genuine question from someone who wasnt around at the time: How did people craft before Harvest was introduced? Because if the removal of these Harvestcraft options makes certain crafts unfeasible, there must have been a feasible option before Harvest? Or did people not see that as an issue before because there was no easy solution like harvest?
Wisdom scrolls for the first 2-3 weeks of the league, then buy a good base and chaos spam for something better (Talisman era). We also used uniques like bringer of rain - using that saved you the trouble of finding usable yellows in 2 slots + no need to link chest.
The game also had fewer (almost no) end game goals. Your fun was whatever you made it, the only real goals were (1) get to 100, or (2) do in HC what you did in SC.
People just can't deal with having their toys taken away (or slightly diminished, lets be honest.) The game has been based around crafting from day one and there are of course still thousands of ways to make cool and powerful items. This is just cashing in on the current hate train
@@dirtydard4870 I feared as much..
tl:dr complaining in the most elitest fashion from the top 0.5% playerbase.
"This is useless, I could just run an uber cortex and get soo many of these!"
So their initial costs were bad, and they adjusted. Alright. But you must be out of your mind if you think doing an uber cortex is a viable option for Most poe players. In fact, some of the harvest changes, I would argue, are better for the lower end players, as it stands now, with current cost adjustments.
The only thing i can't understand is who benefits from having less options to craft, less loot and less fun overall. I would asume that new (good) crafting options and more meaningful loot would make people happy and happy people spend more money. What even is " The Vision" anymore? Having a game that only Chris "Egghead" Wilson from Grinding Gear Games enjoys playing?
Chris said he wanted items that are dropped on the ground to feel exiting.
I guess nuking crafting was the way to do it.
I remember the OG harverst (in standard) and how much fun I had with it.
After that, the ONLY craft I cared about was "keeping pre/suf" (I was literally spamming the others on random shit: more def on shields and armors, crit on jewels, chaos on cluster jewels).
I personally like how you mentioned that they thought 50000 life force was a chaos orb. it really puts things into perspective.
They want you to get "wrecked"... That's the whole point.
Think about this: Someone had to design the original Harvest system. That person had an idea of what crafting is all about. What you are seeing now is designers who don't understand aspects of the game they are "adjusting".
When they say they move all Harvest to the bench, no one thinks they took”keep pre and suffixes “ away. I personally thought it would be easier with all available crafts in 3.18 and we just need to farm wildseeds
Guess what, GGG doesn't want you to have deterministic crafting
@15min, can't opening the 3rd suffix allow you to beastcraft prefix to suffix to open the prefix's for the lock suffix's?
I would even add that the more basic crafting is also hardly nerved. We cannot freely change resistances (bacause of the cost) and socketed colors, it is just insane what they did.
yeah especially off colouring on certain body armours for some builds is just almost impossible or needs vorici in t4 and luck to be usable.
I totally agree this. I just got a T4 harvest seed today and it dropped
lets get real to it, 3.13 lets revurd, let it happen
I rarely sold my craft's. I tended to use them even on garbage items. The reforge keep suffix/prefix was my favorite to use. It made me excited to pick up items. If i got a item with 3 good suffixes/prefixes i would gamble to see if I can fix them.
in(tended)
First of all, I learned more about crafting in this video than GGG has ever known about their own crafting system I suspect. Holy shit dude. I'm sorry to everybody who loved crafting.
GGG 100% understands this. They want you to have to spend more to get a good item. Part of that is being able to fully brick an item. They don't like deterministic crafting and have said so many times.
@@ikashibimauler The sad thing is, most people also don't care about playing one character. id reather be at a point where I can finish my character (feeling happy and done, not all perfect gear) and then move on to the next, rather than hitting some dogshit craft wall that will just take weeks of rng to get over burning me out and ultimately ending any fun I had or drive to do it again for the next character.
abaout the 3 preffixes, the eldrich currency canot cover this problem? i think eldrich anul, you can delete one prefix with security?
the hilarious part about the tainted fusing orb now is that a 1 in 10 chance is just the cost of a 5 link bench craft times 10 = a 6link, which is exactly what the actual cost is. it's 150 fusing + 150 vaals to 5link a corrupted item and 1500 fusing + 1500 vaals to 6link. what this means is that you're actually just better off using the bench outright.
Great Video,
BTW, what you guys are thinking about weights on mods ? im having hard time trying to craft a 2 resistances + good ES ring. wich is ridiculous, even using fossils or essences
It's so annoying that a guy like this who contributed a shit ton of useful information to the public will be perma ban like that. He said some nasty stuff but comon this guy promoted the game for a long time. He only said those stuffs because the current situation of the game is garbage and I'm sure if they fix the issue this guy will post a new video praising GGG for the changes. Sadly it won't go there anymore but still I hope it is not permanent. This is literally his life and he shared it.
Crafting is dead, shows how to craft the same amulet just a bit more expensive
a bit????? also did you pass the part where if you hit a certain mod its annul gamble or brick?
The game is a random rare fiesta and wisdom/portal scroll picking simulator at this point.
When I am mapping I feel like a homeless guy crawling down the street begging for money. It's a really sad game. Gambling for everything without proper crafting system is awful. The only thing why poe was so fun and different was because of the different ways you can manipulate your items.
They want such items to be uber mega endgame and for you just to farm more, play more, hence possibility of you spending money. Instead 2 weeks, challenges done, bye. They don't have many ways of extending playtime otherwise. People in 2-3 days are 100 basically and done everything. They want you to be able to craft something like that in 2 months time or so. Such item to be uber super rare, so they would be a bragging rights, like in some oldschool games, when you had a drop, that you had to farm 1000 times. It was something legendary. That's what they are aiming I think, not random shoot bubbles game with firework loot, done in a week or less, gbay.
Yet…they just lost tons of players that have 1k of hours already in the game sooo…
"Crafting dead", proceeds to explain how to craft a endgame item
will crafted items go for 0,01 btc now
To all the people that is rejoicing that the 0.001% is getting screwed cause they can't craft their gg mirrored gear, have fun with all your semi-trashy rolled rares costing 10x more than before :)
Cope and seethe
@@zelassin Normally I'm on your side, but everyone is at loss here. The top percentile of players who through extensive knowledge of the economy scheme their way to several mirrors worth of gear may be just as toxic as the eternal kajk irl. But purple Matt is right, ESPECIALLY casual players are fucked on so many levels. They will eventually reach a point where it isn't worth playing anymore because nothing good drops and the (somewhat) GG metacrafted shit that would normally go for 50ex is now at least 200.
Looking forward for 15 ex items to cost 50 divines in the endgame.
@@bravefastrabbit770 Agreed, people don't seem to understand how EVERYBODY benefited from the crafters.
Where do they think all the 10c-10ex gear came from?
@@zelassin LMAO found the dude that doesn't even play the game but just sits on reddit.
My analogy for what GGG is providing us is based of expectations. We expect GGG with providing a Wedding cake for 100 people, instead they show up with a platter with a dozen of not pretty cupcakes. So we complain and we tell them, please man, we just want our expectations to be met here. So they provide a new platter now with 2 extra cupcakes, so now we have a whole 14 cupcakes.
But that is only for the loot, and for the scourge currencies, our expectations that GGG have trained us to expect was not met by a long shot, in terms of communication, and nerfs.
Now we are sitting here with a feeling that we should be able to supply 100 people with delicious cake, and we get 14 gross over done muffins with cream on top. -_-
Then we have crafting, Poe is fun because of crafting and loot. I love crafting I have been crafting even before harvest was a thing. Crafting has been stripped down to pre-harvest levels and that is simply not okay.
That is GGG serving up a main course, we are expecting to get some delicious dishes, and ton of options, then they show up with instant noodles with 4 different flavours, fossil flavour, essence flavour, beast flavour and harvest flavour. Sure they have different flavours but deep down we all know that they are all the same now.
In the soviet revolution, "the people" complained about farmers and that all the land they owned was unfair and belonged to "the people".
The farmers were dragged out of their homes and killed.
Then "the people" starved to death because there was no one left who knew how to farm.
I'm seeing similarities here in that a lot of people don't seem to understand how integral the crafters were to the market and progression through the game.
1. I'm poor due to loot nerf.
2. Good gear on the market is rarer and more expensive due to loot & crafting nerf.
3. AN mobs are dangerous as hell.
Result: I'm getting one shot in T2 maps with a PC meta build despite my stacked defenses.
Exactly this, failed crafting project that were done by high players usually drop in price after some time and became affordable to almost anyone who farmed regularly
@@sanmaru5555 I wouldn't mind if it loot was buffed & crafting nerfed or vise versa, but a massive nerf to both just seems....I can't think of a word, so I'll just go with dumb. Really really dumb.
Man, you are completely ignorant about USSR and, by extent, the Soviet revolution in Russia. Shame on you since information on Soviet government, collectivization and 'NOT farmers' ('kulaks' were rural loan sharks, not farmers) is freely available, although you need to look it up in a sea of anti-soviet propaganda both old and new.
Glad that he was "Trying to be constructive". Unfortunately, Matth is about as good at being constructive as GGG is at balancing Harvest.
at 15:05 you can solve the problem of having 3 prefix 2 suffix by beastcrafting "remove prefix add suffix".
doesnt change the fundamental fact that the "penalty" for filling up the prefixes was changed from "pay whatever harvest keep suffix costs and continue" to "1/3 chance to brick your item"
Um... They don't want deterministic crafting so..
I'm new to poe so I don't really have a dog in this fight but what did we do before harvest? Was it just a lottery before?
Yes complete lottery but with minimal options. Influenced and all that jazz came after the fact for the most part.
Crafting as we know it today doesn't function without harvest.
Don't listen to this guy. We had a ton of options to make good items with relative consistency. They just got a millon times more consistent, and therefore, more powerful with harvest
They killed the economy, destroyed crafting and ruined zooming with AN. Nice Vision(c) there, Chris. League is dead 6 days after start lol. Lmao.
didn't you suggest the other day to
just use the league mechanic to get +2 amulets?
3.20 launch will probably see less than 100k players - out of sheer protest. Because players know, from painful experience, that GGG will fuck that up.... stacked on top of their unmoving position on the current drop and crafting situation has made, and will continue to keep, their game effectively unplayable.
how did you craft before harvest?
After listening to his other videos I guess crafting didn't exist.... lol
12:50 If you get 3 prefixes and 2 suffixes you can still do bestiary prefix to suffix. If you get 3 prefixes AND 3 suffixes which is unlikely, you can still annul for 66.67% chance of success. It's not the end of the world. I agree we should get reforge keeping pref/suff back, but you're making it way more drastic than it really is.
path of math should know this is what you should do in the case if you hit not influenced suffix. Which makes me very disgusted with him coz he did not mention that beastcraft on purpose
I found my VERY first mirror (normaly i trade up there) in a league were i cant do anything with it haha. now i know how the brazzilian dollar feels!
Wait until the problem of not enough divines exist for metamods and they go to 400-600+c each. As we need divines for both items and for metacrafting. I think the economy is gonna implode, right now its in a massive spiral I cant sell half decent items at 5c and below. The last week of Sentinel had more ppl trading than it does now.
Economic vortex coming soon next week or 2 for sure.
Totally agree with you about this! But you know what, ggg did take care of us because we barely have any divine orb dropped so we don't have to craft anymore! Just fractured, essenced and bench, problem solved!
the thing most nowadays seem to want is a somewhat reasonable way to craft or get usable items. the reduced item drops would be ok if the items which droped would have a higher chance of having stats according to the itemlvl.
I would prefer way fewer bases, rares and everything else but drop lots of currency, map consumables etc... Who needs a billion items dropped with only .0000000001% of drops are ever equipped on an endgame player.
@@ikashibimauler 100% agree
How did ppl craft before Harvest?
With fossils. The difference is, before Harvest there were no Uber Uber bosses, and current bosses (and game in general) are balanced around power that only Harvest can give to players.
@@Aguin0re sounds like a skill issue
For me crafting has always been dead because it has always been prohibitively expensive and complicated to where it was impossible for me to even attempt.
na bro you just never put in the time to gain the knowledge and it never even required a lot of time to learn, you could watch a 5 minute video to learn how to craft bows +2 amulets etc...it was never as complicated as you make it out to be, sorry.
@@2ndcitysaint52 Well I never used skills that would benefit from +2 levels so I was SoL from the start.
I generally think you have level headed takes on most stuff but I don't think the +2 amulet argument is doing you any favors when looking at the current game because we just got a mechanic that cost less and will net you a stronger result ->
~Your craft cost suggestion involves at a bare minimum 1ex(div)(benchcraft) + augment craft(which previously would run from 3-10ex(div)+ depending on time of league buying it off tft(not to mention if you didn't want to use tft it would never exist for you). not accounting base cost you already 4-11ex deep on an amulet with no other stats besides +2
~Now in current game you can pick up a fractured amulet of pretty much any type for 50-100c thanks to the new fractured drops you can throw a few defeaning essence of scorn on it for 40 crit multi, do that till you have 4 mods, with 2 extra mods being neglible if reversed for your build(will take a few essences tops), anul so you have a three mod item, then buy a reflection of kalandra for 1 divine orb difficulty 10 -> this will be a 50% chance to double both the +1 to +2 as well as make 40 crit multi go to 80 crit multi(more with catalysts), and an average cost of this amulet will be 2 divines + 100-200c which is less expensive than the old method with harvest on top of being a much higher damage outcome. There are similar options like this for ring slot as well which can give you very powerful outcomes for pretty minimal investment when comparing to using meta crafts + harvest.
Also, fractured items being more common are disgustingly strong with eldritch currency which has been proven to be BiS for most body armour/glove/boot/helmet slots which makes these items even more affordable to craft than ever especially considering you can finish up a prefix or suffix pool of the item with exalted orbs which cost less than eldritch currency now. Previously just getting a good base would cost multi ex(divine) to even start the craft. Just yesterday I picked up t1 life regen rate on each gear slot I needed for less than 100c for all three pieces(previously these fractures wouldn't have really existed on the market
Clearly our current crafting isn't dead, it isn't as good as recombinators which was undoubtedly the strongest crafting power we have had to date. But I don't think extreme statements like crafting is dead is a very productive statement to make when its a fairly big stretch considering the current tools we have at out disposal to use still.
Fractured items are indeed powerful, not as much as recombinators, but still powerful nonetheless. But with the example of using the Lake of Kalandra to make crazy items, it only applies to jewellery and is also only temporary. They can, and most probably will, remove the lake when 3.19 ends, leaving us with nothing but fractured + essence spam. This is okay for average gear, but GG end game crafting is gone. I feel like my character is at the end of it's progression at level 92 because every subsequent step requires days of grinding for some low chance at winning at a slot machine. Any meaningful upgrade now will take days/weeks with how rare it will be.
i agree. he normally does good content but he got stuck in the reddit downvote spiral, hating everything without having it tried, like so many others.
there are so many good uniques now to abuse for new builds, we have so many fractured items, we still have fossils and essences which i usually prefer for all my gear, etc.
just because one cant easily get a +2 amulet anymore etc. doesent mean crafting is dead. there are "most often" very good alternatives for you best in slot item that are just different and not actually worse. like some increased mana reservation efficiency on the amulet or very high attributs (all attributes) or some x damage taken as shenanigans, etc.
also plenty unique amultes that are very nice for many builds.
i liked keep prefix reroll suffix etc. as a backup plan, but in the end you can still either start over or annul or if not influenced beastcraft or exalted slam or work with eldritch currency or etc.
I started playing at the end of delirium, what did people do to get endgame items before my best legue harvest?
For the most part there was pre-nerfed fossils which had fossil specific mods like serrated with maim support on the chest and stuff like that.
Fossils used to be MUCH stronger in the past.
But if you look at mirror tier items from pre-harvest, they were overall just... bad. It was fine due to the game difficulty back then, but those items now-a-days are mostly considered "meh" items pretty much.
The crafting meta pre-harvest was just sad.
If I remember correctly you had 2 ways to craft items:
1. Fossil spam and bench craft to finish.
2. Alteration Spam for important mod, Regal and multimod with bench.
very big eye opener, I had no idea that it was this bad... what I know is that it was "deterministic" but it wasn't that direct, and required a LOT of investment for it to work "deterministically" (very high chance). like this? I don't see how chase rare items are going to be made basically now, who is going to risk so much and try to craft them like this?
I believe that Chris Wilson vision crafting as early to mid game ramp. While player base would like it as end game feature.
15:00 - open suffx -> beast craft remove prefix, add random suffix, it's an option, stupid one, but an option non the less.
100% agreed. Once I've heard about nerfed harvest and crafting I don't even see a reason to get to maps
11:37 you forgot about the option of Exalt spamming (the ggg intended way)
3:01 Reforge influence is not a chaos orb, because it guarantees a mod and it respects metamods. Even moreso with the fractured and synthesized crafts, these crafts are huge because you can use them on items that are already crafted, it's not the same as finding an item on the ground.
I believe if and when we get reroll values back, and perhaps reforge keep back, harvest and the game as a whole will be fixed, and these costs reductions would not have been necessary.
What happened to fossil crafting?
me too matth, i'm livid over harvest. To be honest, actually Best League Ever. Ultimatum second
next manifesto 3 months from now.... problem: harvest is underwhelming and not used by a lot of players! Solution: remove harvest completely from game....
I have a questions and it has nothing to do with this video. I assume a lot of people farm a tabula rasa on ba
when playing ssf. How long did it take? Previously it took me about 3 hours max. I literally spend all day yesterday farming
one and got 2 cards and burned out on the game. Am I mad/unlucky or did the drop nerfs indeed cause this?
Drops nerfed by ~90% all around the board
Just forget about it tbh, go farm maps with a 4l, eventually you will get a 5l
@@Francorocco I am playing PoE since Beta and know that 4L white maps is okay. I just have my routine playing ssf and it got screwed bad.
In an awakener orb situation, if you hit the third suffix, can't you do Einhar prefix to suffix?
Similarly in +2 amu's situation, I think in order to get to two suffixes you can Einhar craft an aspect.
But for me, I think one of the worst thing is the removal of "reforge+"; it was actually quite important in some crafts I wanted to do
Yes you can but the third suffix you're gonna get will be completely RNG. At least with reforge keep suffixes that we had, you could remove a prefix without touching the suffixes, and then do a reforge fire/cold/lightning or else to get the resistance or mod that you wanted as the last suffix.
Yep. Made a detailed comment on reddit about the implications these changes had on crafting as a whole before the league came out and was told to just go and play SSF lol, hope he's enjoying the shit he's eating
I have mixed feelings on this as a low intermediate skilled player who plays very casually. On one hand I think this levels the playing field a bit between high end players. On the other hand, why in the hell would you decide to do that so late into the game? You've already got people who love crafting in these ways and so if you try to totally change crafting you're gonna lose your playerbase, and there's no guarantee that you'll get new players because you're essentially making a new game where you have no idea if people are interested. I think this is a very bad idea.
Poe economy isn't like the real world. When top players can destroy game content and craft good items, it fills the economy with higher quality cheaper items for other players to use. I'm not a crafter and I play ssf and can do all non Uber content week 1, these changes effect new/casual players way more than it seems, everyone is nerfed hard.
Their actions seem to indicate they think rare items are too strong. It seems like they want to push people back to picking up items off the ground and identifying them. I'm all for that, those items need to be way way better though. Once you go through the crafting process for this and add up all the cost, it becomes reasonable to just buy an ashes at the stars pretty quickly. I haven't looked recently but I think it was around 15 divnes last I looked.
These changes all push the game towards being more dependent on good uniques, and more dependent on identifying rare items in the hopes you pick up something decent in the early game.
In regards to crafting. Just bring back the old crafting options.. and that pretty much solves the communities gripes regarding crafting.(not including costs still being really high even after the patch).
Alternatively. They could unfuck normal crafting. Harvest existing is pretty much a massive bandaid to the absolute dumpster fire that base game crafting is.
Items dropping good are already a 1 in 40 million chance of being anything worthwhile.
Let alone alteration spamming, regalling, scouring, chaos slamming, Exalt slamming(HAHAH), ETC. and then the measly non meta mod crafting bench of a single locked to prefix or suffix modifier.
There are so many ways they could go in fixing the crafting system and making it better or fixing the loot system and making farming for rares actually worthwhile.
The simplest idea being just making it so you actually get better and better shit the higher tier maps you do.. lol. What a revolutionary idea I know.
Anyway. Hopefully they at least unfuck crafting
They need to get rid of the whole fucking gambling angle and let players do a line by line cut and paste. Just make it expensive for the highest end crafts.
But hey, they could even make it cheap as chips since there's no drops to pay for crafting anyway.
Crafting needs to be FAR more deterministic for the average player. Let the gambling be the purview of the rich.
The ORIGINAL harvest as it was during that league needs to be brought back but with the life force cost rather than random crafts.
It really doesn't make sense to take away useful options. If you want to rebalance them... sure, I can see some logic there (even if I disagree with the choice). However, to just remove useful options? How does that make things more fun?
@@aimerw It doesn't, that's the entire point.
After considering your first video and now this, I have to say, you are the best defense of this leagues nerfs. Taken out of the context of the game you're arguing for nothing but Reaganomics/Trickle Down economics. Sure, the peak gear trickles down to a few players who can farm the currency to buy it (the middle class) but dramatically remove the ability for the middle and lower class to vend their own finds and creations.
"Randos on tft won't brick your items anymore, to mitigate this, we will force you to brick your own items with annuls. This is a buff"
Remember they want everyone to experience the gamba of 2 months of rerolling or that one off chance of getting a good items on the ground. Everyone pulls he slot machine.
Hers my idea for what they are doing. They are nerfing the crafts and drops and some of the skills to lower the effect of the build. Then over the next 3 expansions they will give the power back but put it on unique items so there is a reason to farm even more so. Sigh, this is the wow nerf/buff cycle.
about the awakener's orb example: if you have 3x prefixes and an open suffix (or you annul the third suffix) you can use the remove prefix add suffix beastcraft. not optimal as you get a random suffix but safe. of course if you get a full mod item you have to yolo annul.
You can but it adds even more RNG to the third suffix which was already entirely based on RNG. lol
@@DamienBaka yes but at least you have 100% of not briking it with the yolo annul, if you are ok with something good enough you can now clean the prefixes and try getting something good there (unless you have bad luck and get full prefixes again). this may vary depending on your goals.
@@Zave85 Yes, you have 100% chance to not brick it with an annul in this specific case, but you still have a high chance to brick it later when trying to craft the prefixes. Before you had 1 or 2 steps based on RNG, now pretty much all of the steps are pure RNG. That’s a lot of uncertainty. But you made a good point.
I never craft so I'm curious, what crafts did they remove that are super important? Also, was crafting just trash before harvest(when I began playing) because it still seemed really popular before then
Before harvest betrayal was in someway a reemplace tje way aisling works changed when hsrvest was released because it was used foe similar porpuse, also yeah the crafting before harvest at least for good items was a pain in the ass reserved for 1% of the base players the rest we basically buy the non perfect items from these 1% who craft, thats why when u see most old builds focus mostly on the use of many broken uniques and just 1 or 2 crazy crafted items because u will spend half league getting that 2 crafts
@@kure2658 Oh ok, ya I started in harvest and had quad tabs full of crafts and got so rich by selling on tft. The next league I struggled so hard lol That targeted crafting was so fun
Reconsidering the Devine/Exalt switch in the context of the rest of the severe nerfs, first off you can't get that extra 3% on your item's mods. it's essentially like they removed all of the div cards that give exalts (plus harbinger) making metamods WAAAY more expensive.
I'm honestly just baffled as to why they've gone so hard on nerfing endgame power, any single one of the economic changes would have been a huge nerf on it's own. In conjunction it's like they want to completely eliminate the endgame experience as it was.
the only thing I can think of is that the ultra juicing was killing the servers, but you'd think the Beyond change alone would have fixed that
One correction on the video, when you annul off the third useless suffix in the woke orbed item, you can do prefix to suffix beast craft to open a prefix and then clear out prefix
I came here to say this. To be honest there are a ton of good beast crafts that people forget about. And when it comes to crafting everyone always says “essence and fossils” but never beastcrafts. He almost didn’t say imprints, which you can see in the video he has a long pause because I think he realizes when he says “imprint the item” it’s like he realized “oh shit, beast crafts exist I forgot but fuck it, I’m on this rant might as well keep going”
As I do agree with most of his points and much more expensive meta mods/crafting is, you can still make really good items, just have to do it the old way, with the combinations of essence/fossils/beast crafts, with what harvest we have left. People still made mirror tier items before harvest was introduced. It’s just much harder that’s all
Yes there are many useful beast crafts. But still the current crafting process involves a lot of rng.
I wish GGG instead of limiting high end crafting with high RNG, they would make it a bit difficult to obtain but deterministic. That would encourage the players to grind with a certainity that they can obtain the item they want instead of just keeping your fingers crossed.
@@Benzil_infinity big comapnany, so they have people who got schooled in game-psychology and they all get taught that if players have RNG, they get more addicted and commited. thats where all this bullshit comes from.
@@Rawlingm The bestiary is cumbersome, outdated, and annoying
The solution to current crafting is to add reforge keep prefix and suffix to bestiary. Which I'm sure is what GGG is planning to do. Since the craft is fairly of niche use and shouldn't be the goto crafting process for all items. Much like the prefix to suffix(vice-versa).
But since it requires designing new beast, I guess they would only to do in next patch.
Yup. When I saw the list of Harvest crafts, I knew that the endgame crafting was dead, as well as the mirror tier crafting. You didn't mention it but with the removal of "augment influence" and "remove non add influence" items like 12L claw are literally impossible to make.
EDIT: in 3.17 it took me 100ex and 20+ Aisling to finish my chest to get +1 curse, 35% avoid stun/elemental ailments and crafted life. For me at that time it was about a week of farming just gone. Imagine in 3.19 how much currency it would take if you get that kind of bad RNG. Not even worth trying.
The takeaway for me is the last sentence of your post.
With this league, I haven't had fun.
It's not even worth trying.
this in contrast with the unique changes gives us a glimpse of the sublime vision in which 90% of players just use shit uniques
I love your inquisitor build, i was wondering if putting an three golden dragons helmet was a bad idea (the unique that gives you 30% res but take away frozen) ty
The worst part for the second example is that because it is an influenced item you can't use eldritch currency to target annul prefixes since you can't use eldritch currencies on influenced items
How do you use eldritch currency to target annul? Did I miss something?
@@TadianPlays well target annul in the sense that you can choose to annul a prefix or suffix depending on whether the Red currency or Blue currency is "Dominant". Dominance depends on which tier currency you used, if you used a lesser ichor and a greater ember then the Searing Exarch's influence is dominant.
If the Searing Exarch is dominant then you can use an Eldritch Orb of Annulment to target a prefix, if the Eater of Worlds is dominant you can target a suffix.
For me it's sad that blue mods for map device craft is gone. That's a small thing but I really liked free turbo mods.
well with recombinators going core I can understand why they would do this, maybe its a little less . . . im sorry what
recoms are not going core?
meta crafts on the bench are locked behind an orb with no div cards?
. . .
standard buff?
For the most part I agree with this. I have always looked at crafting in this game a bit weird. I remember Demi used to craft all the time constantly exalt slamming annulment orbing and occasionally bricking. I remember they used to have an orb it still exist in standard even after all of these years that basically can save your item similar to what bestiary does, but that orb is way better.
Any ways for a player like myself I wasn’t getting multiple mirrors so going through that type of process to craft a great item crazy. Then came awakened orbs and, harvest which to me made crafting a real option rather than this huge pool of rng and possibly bricking items. Sure the old way would be very rewarding to hit that after throwing lots of currency at them. However I’m not of the thought that I should have to spend so much of my time and resources attempting to create a good item. Mirror tier maybe but just a good upgrade so I can play the game nah.
Then they gut it.
I would really love to see Chris play this game from our perspective to see what he thinks is actually fun.
Thanks for the amulet example, which showed clearly how crafting is lacking after the changes. If we assume that harvest crafting is dead - is there any way to create decent items with pre-Harvest crafting methods?
Fossil spamming into a good set of mods , woke orbing if you want a double influenced piece . In general without harvest , it is still possible to craft decently high end gear. It is just extremely high variance (like fossils) or much more expensive than before (awakener orbing). Last league I crafted myself an int stack amulet with % int , %attr , %es and several other useful mods. used awakening orbs , 2 bases , alt spamming into good mods on said bases , then did the then 2ex suffixes cannot be changed . scoured . Then did keep suffix reforges into something useable. instead . Now you would probably have to settle for multimod (0 chance to hit actually good mods like int stacking spell damage mods). Sparing you the details , harvest nerfs technically didn't really add anything you couldn't do before . HOWEVER it made it alot more accessible. Reforge keep suffix/prefix is alot more accessible than spending 2 divines this league and then chaos orbing or nerfed harvest reforging your item EVERY chaos orb roll . If you were still trying to craft this league then you would use alot more veiled chaos orbing , beast crafting and betrayal in general. But those methods have a large chance to brick your items (beast craft can fill up your prefixes or suffixes slot meaning you get a shit mod there that you can't just lock your item for 2 divines and scour away. Or betrayal is typically straight controlled rngs. (Veiled slams tend to work out to be like a 1/2 or 1/3 with the proper item locking and setup).
@@soraneptune4178 Wow, thanks so much for the detailed examples! This must be the most useful answer I've ever gotten in a comment :)
At first i was defending the harvest changes and explained to people why harvest is not dead and how its still super useful. By that point i thought they only removed augment and filler crafts.
My mind was blown when i realized that they actually removed keep prefix/suffix, reroll more likely and gutted more/less likely. What small amount of knowledge about crafting do you need to have to call those crafts filler... :O
Pretty much every mid-endgame craft (if still possible) will cost much more and/or have so much more rng tied to it (which pretty much every crafter hates... deterministic crafting is so so much better)
And i dont even want to think how people would actually try to craft mirror tier items now. My god the cost to craft those now. Dont think a lot of people would actually try to craft t hose in 3.19
They also nerfed the "turn essences/oils/..." into other of the same tier, but making the cost based on stack sizes. To be fair it probably should have been this way from the start, but I used it the past 3 or 4 leagues to make currency, and I can't anymore, and afaik they didn't announce any nerfs to harvest, just promising to improve the QoL
I myself am not a crafter - BUT, i utilized some of these "filler" crafts quite often to make good items / sellable items OR recover crafted items its insane.
Most cost efficient way to 6l with tainted currencies is actually to do 2 linked sockets on the bench. Do it until you have 2 links and 4 links, and then use the tainted fusing
That forms a 5L. Not a 6L. It removes the final link on either the 4 or 2 link section and makes it a 5 link
Today i paid 2 divines in a shit shield with just high life, suppress, attack speed and 1 good resist, and i can see now why
Probably because suppression has no tags and is basically impossible to get on your gear without just getting very lucky
@@zelassin Rog is stronger than ever
I actually don't mind these changes. I am not an advanced crafter, so the only methods I know are fossile or essence spamming. Previously I may lose value on an item that could be potentially further crafted or fixed by harvest, but now its fine cause the harvest nerfs. Even lets say in an extreme state, where the only available crafting method left in the game is chaos spamming, then those 1% crafter would have no advantages over causal players any more. And GGG always wanted to nerf the 1%. So now it's in a good direction.
The most interesting take away from the video for me was how he was saying "CRAFTING IS DEAD" yet it just got more expensive. Maybe even twice as expensive or more, but it's still possible as he showed how.
you guys have to face it: ggg doesnt understand their own game. i know it's hard to accept but they dont. they dont understand how the economy works. they dont understand how ppl craft, and they dont understand why people like poe.
You have to look at it from a broader perspective. For PoE 2, we definitely have to shift down a few gears. It's a strategically good time to start now. That way the game still has plenty of time to recover from those decisions with 3.19. Better than doing it a season or two before PoE 2.
PoE 2 will be fundamentally different in terms of gameplay. At the beginning, PoE 2 will almost certainly not have as many deep systems as PoE 1 has had since Betrayal. Es wäre kein guter Übergang, wenn nach dem Release von PoE 2 viele Spieler weiterhin sehr viel Zeit in PoE 1 verbringen, weil es einfach so viel größer und tiefer ist und jeder seine Routine entwickelt hat.
My dude poe 2 is a reskin with new ascendancies and a new campaign, it's not a new game
OK, as a melee only player I didn't know it was so easy to craft +2 amulets. I knew that a lot of spells actually gained damage from levels, but crafting +2 was too easy
I'm finding it harder and harder to hop onto the game and continue grinding because I don't have the drive to grind out hours and hours of harvest just to attempt to get the crafts needed to swap over to BFBB. I'm running t14+ maps and not getting shit for currency and usually not even getting red maps back to run again. I'm at a loss with this league since I skipped out on the last 2-3 leagues because of work. I had fun the first day or two but actually attempting to swap builds now, I'm seeing all the problems and how unrealistic it is for me to swap day by day. I'll wait it out a few more days and see if things improve, but for now I'm just not going to waste my time mapping.
Why would you spend your limited time on something you dont enjoy? Spend it on something you actually have fun with.
I agree with everything said and would love to have those crafts back but it wonders me how mirror tier items were created before harvest?
Mirror items before harvest were essentially life and res with maybe 1 influence mod or whatever. It was nothing like the items we see today, but the game was also much easier. Ubers are much harder than any content from back then, but itemization went backwards 2 years.
@@pathofmatth Gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks for replying.
harvest crafting was the cornerstone of my crafting. both to get the starting base created as well as finishing an item.
I can settle with metamod chaos crafting as long as the suffix/prefix cannot be changed doesn't go away when reforged by chaos orb.
U don't need to craft both cannot roll attack mods and pref can't change for +2. You can just multimod + prefix cannot change + "x" fire damage to attacks prefix (if you have 2 open prefix).
And if everything stays like this, then the prices of good items will rise exponentially. If in pre-3.19 casual player could buy something, now he is in the ass. There are people for whom 10ex is a lot of money.
That's fucked up.