I’ve been using the wrong lie angle for 20 years
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- 99% OF GOLF CUSTOM FITTERS don't have the confidence to fit LIE ANGLES like this!...
**I PLAYED WITH THE WRONG LIE ANGLES FOR 20 YEARS!**
**THIS LIE ANGLE VIDEO HAS TRANSFORMED MY GAME**
**I WAS 4º OUT!**
During this video we demonstrate the importance of LIE ANGLES buy showing how lie angle effects ball flight!
This experimental video dropped a bombshell, when we realised I'd be using the wrong lies for over 20 years!
............
SAM SMITH (MASTER FITTER)
www.golfrepairs4u.co.uk
#customfitting #lieangle #golftips
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Welcome to Gary Martin Golf, I am a PGA Professional based at Huddersfield Golf Club, West Yorkshire. I started my TH-cam channel during lockdown whilst being Furloughed and unable to work.
My goal is to be the peoples golf TH-camr. All my help and advise is unbiased with our subscribers best interest at heart. I want to share my knowledge and understanding of golf and golf products, to help other golfers avoid making all the mistakes I did in my 20 years playing and working within the golf industry.
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Thank you for watching!
Gary Martin
Love how you've gone full geek mode on these fittings 👍
I won’t be able to blame by clubs ever again soon 🤣
@garymartingolf its inspired me to look into all my club specs ready for next year
These videos with Sam are gold,what an amazing difference, and a clear winner for moving to a flatter lie angle.
Thanks Duncan, we got loads more coming up. My favourite being my hybrid re fit. Thanks, Gaz
The Ping chart massively failed in this case. This goes to prove John Erickson’s contention that we should be playing much flatter lies. Related, he says that Ben Hogan played 6° flat lies.
I had a fitting with Sam on 19th Dec, his knowledge and attention to detail was amazing. I'd highly recommend him.
WOW! Great vid. Static, I'm fitted for 2 degrees upright, but now I'm definitely going to get mine checked because my misses are to the left...so maybe I'm in the same boat as you 😲
Definitely sounds the case! 👀
I think I’m in the same boat. Had one fitter tell me I should be 1 degree flat and another tell me I should be 2 degrees upright. I’m currently playing 2 degrees upright and my miss is a ball that starts left and turns left.
So glad you are getting dialled in with your clubs. I have absolutely nowhere to get fitted let alone like Sam would do.
So you don’t have any golf clubs with pro’s at them near you? Where do you live, the arctic? 🥶
Great video, more people need to understand about fitting with dynamic club lies and how it affects/creates the shot you want to achieve. All the fitting videos have been awesome, keep it up! More people need to watch these!
Thanks buddy! Appreciate the support 👌🏼
Looking forward to my fitting with Sam on Friday to go through my bag and too see what changes
Absolutely loving all the videos with Sam. Learning so much.
I’ve just gone form ping i210 (blue spot fitted at Ping in Gainsborough) to titleist T150’s which the titleist fitter set to 3 degrees flatter than my pings, he did it to improve strike position on the face.. the difference was shocking to me.. for context I’m a 1 handicapper that has decent consistency of strike.. but the flight on the flatter was so much better regards dispersion in height, L 2 R and F 2 B… great series Gaz and would inform many players who have a geeky interest in their clubs..
This was interesting and educational how fitting process works.
I have been 2 degrees upright since my original fitting back in my College days. Recently I switched from 2 degrees upright down to 1 degree as I am trying to get away from the larger draw and more of a "straight" ball. I tried about 15 different clubs and ended up with the Ping i230's, blue dot. I even tried very flat and very upright during the fitting and found that with my recent switch changes that the blue dot just hit the money.
I still have my Miura MB101's at 2 degrees upright, so when I switch back I def notice more of a draw (which I am ok with). Lie is really interesting to see it when going through the whole spectrum, really great video here, Gary.
Sam is a magician! And a great communicator.
Great blog mate I had my irons fitted in 2016 and the fitter used a mizuno optimizer to recommend loft lie and shaft etc.I'm curious to see how your numbers would be using an optimizer compared to Sams in depth fitting process.
Great Video Gary and Sam, I really enjoy these fitting ones! I really think people need to get off looking at their height for length/lie of clubs, even in the comments here people telling you how tall and how long their arms are haha. A much better basic rule is upright for draw/more left starting line shots, flat for fade/more right starting line shots.
Possibly worth doing a quick video Gary with the magnetic iron face alignment aid showing how it moves your aim as you tilt the club (up/down) so upright and flat, people are always shocked at how much it alters!
Great insight into the conundrum of lie angle, I too play Pings but always went for the black dot std set up, but on having a fitting with my club pro he advised 1 degree upright, was wondering if players just adapt to what ever the angle is on their clubs anyway?. I think I am going to have to book a hotel in Derbyshire for a few days cos I am having a whole bag fit (apart from putter, 2 ball white hot rules), can't wait for the xmas day vid😁
After leaving there with all 3° flat, straight on the phone to James for another match lol
Recently got fitted into 2° flat and definitely hitting it straighter.
Great series this Gaz.
These are super interesting videos. You're turning me into a golf club perv 🤪
This is such a great video guys.
I’ve struggled with my irons lies for years, because visually a std club lie does not look right at address…so I’ve always got 2 degrees up and then struggled with the ball doing exactly what it was doing there for Gary -going left.
I’ll be bending my irons flat tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks fellows.
I'm similar to you as I play +3 up and am about to invest in new sticks. Can you advise how flat you went and what result you got? Thanks.
Great video Gaz, just had a look at a few manufacturers and their standard lies are all different, it's so confusing if you were buying a new set
If you’re buying a new set, you’d have to do a dynamic test with them to see what lie you prefer. I most likely start with this test from now and then dial in.
I’ve always said that if you are a high handicap player and have an inconsistent swing, it does not make sense to get fitted clubs. Once you achieve consistency in your swing, then getting fitted is the way to go. Otherwise just go standard.
I dont agree with this at all, unless you cant get the ball in the air for eg. If you hit 20-30 balls you will see a clear pattern in your results and you get fit for that, not the one you top/thin/shank etc. You can also be high handicap because you cant putt, or chip etc so handicap does not mean you shouldnt be fit.
Love this - I find that I need my lie angles to progress through my irons. I play flat in short irons and upright in long irons.
Any time I get clubs - the 7 iron is OK, but I need to fine tune the other irons to get what I should out of them. I basically need 2 separate fittings, one to get the club heads/shafts, then one to adjust the set to make sure all the irons have the right lie angles.
This is a drawback of the fitting world, because of the cost/availability of fitting equipment (for me at least). I'm curious if anybody else has the same experience, or if people just don't know - and wonder why they struggle with their long/short irons..... It's easy to think its a technique issue if your lie angles are a couple of degrees out.
This is amazing. I've had a few fittings over the years, and always come out bog standard, regular shaft. I have always wondered if it's right, and felt that I might as well have just bought off the shelf.
The only way it’s right, is if you miss both ways (inconsistent) or you’re straight.
I am same size as you 6foot 2 ins, but my arms are a bit longer. I have been fitted for clubs but always static and using a board for strikes. I have changed my clubs a few times since last being measured and currently have ping G430 2 ins up green dot half inch longer regular shaft. I had a hip replacement a few years ago and my inside leg measurement has reduced by one inch and I am not striking the ball as I should do, this video has got me thinking of getting fitted again!!
I play my entire bag anywhere from 1-3 degrees flat depending on the club. It's made a world of difference to me since I started having everything fitted dynamically
I had a fitting done where the fitter measured my wrist to floor from my “impact position” as generally your hands are higher at that point rather than hanging by your sides. Certainly worked for me
That’s interesting, maybe he used a different lie chart requiring a different measurement.
But doesn't the shaft droop when you swing the club?
What’s the cost to get a full set up fitted?
Driver through to lob wedge?
Thanks and great vid👏👏
Thanks for watching. I don’t actually know to be honest. You might have to message Sam. I thought he just charged a £50 fee, plus the costs of any adjustments.
His details are in the description though. Cheers
@@garymartingolf thanks for the reply👍
Great video, what about the actual angle of your pings against the flat angle you used here?, what’s the real difference?
The difference is 5°, as I use 2 upright with ping, although, they actually suggested 3.
@@garymartingolf ok so standard PXG lofts are same as Pings, good to know..:)
Amazing video guys, ive been doing alot of research on ben hogan and his clubs were extremely flat, my clubs are standard but ive been wanting to flatten my lie for some while now & you guys have convinced me, can you tell me if all clubs are adjusted the same or could a set have varying flat lies ie. 2*&3* degree in the same set, thanks
You may very well swing a 5 iron on a diffrent plane to a PW, so yes they all could be different, on something like a foresight GCquad you can see how the club is delivered
I just had a very interesting fit myself Gaz. I've always measured in at half inch short and 2 degrees flat. And when I got my zx5 irons with those numbers I played them well in the fitting but I haven't gotten on well with them on course. My best mates a fitter tested me out I ended up standard length and like and in ping i230 I'm a 22 handicap and mate I didn't think I was a good enough ball striker to use them but it turns out I they were by far the best it came down to the Areojet and the i230 and the consistency and easy to repeat 170 yard 7 iron dead straight swing was to hard to resist. Can't wait for them to get here.
Im here because ive been fighting a hookey draw and occasional toe strike and wondering if lie angle could help , 🤯
Could you please do a follow up on this i.e has it been a honeymoon or longterm change ..
If you could get fit for your driver or your irons which would it be and why?
100% driver! My irons 7 down go pretty straight, it was just 6,5,4 where I was fighting a pull / hook
@garymartingolf I hit my driver straightish but can struggle getting height on my 4,5,6,7,irons.
Maybe a change of shaft is needed to help with that.
Cheers for that 👍
Very very interesting. Must admit though, I would like to see the test done outdoor from turf. I have a mental image of the point of impact between the club and mat. The image in my mind is of 3 deg flat club sole presenting a toe down as the first point of contact with the mat. As the toe impacts with the mat, it could then deflects against the mat and level itself out. However, from turf the toe would be more likely to cut through the turf and potentially drag, and then be reflected in the divot shape? Bringing the LM stats and ball flight, together with a read of the divot shape would be a brilliant video.....
I thought you'd be not flat than the ping chart recommendation. It had me at 1 up, and 2 flat was better fit for me.
i have a flat / neutral lie and i still draw the ball, would that mean i would need to try 2- lie to get it a bit straighter ?
Great video again Gaz. I got fitted for some Mizuno 923hot metals a year ago . The lie is +2 .. I feel as though my swing has changed from Push/slice to Hook/draw…
Should I get my clubs looked at or my swing 😊. Merry Christmas pal look forward to more videos soon
Sounds like your path is in to out. If it’s consistent, it may be worth looking at 1up or standard lie, see if that helps you get a draw.
Have a good one 👌🏼👌🏼
What a top drawer video with shocking results Gaz
I’ve ever questioned my lies 🤦🏻 it was just a video and turned out to be a game changer!
@@garymartingolf amazing the difference a tour fitter can make, so pleased for you mate and I bet your buzzing to play more golf
Its would have been interesting at the end to put the club back to 3flat and see if the results were repeatable.
And that's why you should get fitted properly by someone who knows exactly what they're doing.... I really can't understand why some golfers think nothing about spending £2k on average for clubs but won't spend around £150 for an expert individual fitting and having them fit properly....clubs should be fit to the golfer and not the other way.... beginner golfers should give themselves the best chance of playing decent golf by getting fitted as soon as possible...real eye opener Gary...🌟🎊🤩🥳
I had this same thought so I went to an expert club fitter for driver this year. The fitting was $100, I expected to spend $600 for the club, the shock was the pressure to upgrade to a premium shaft for an additional $350 for what amounted to +3yd carry and -10ft of dispersion. I agree that expert fitting is valuable, but warn to be wary of the fitter/company. They get kickbacks on the up-sale just like every other business.
@@cjwright1960 I totally agree with you...the fitting is only useful if you trust the fitter.... that's why I trust a lot to gut feeling and how clubs react to the way I swing... tough one 🤔🤔🤔
I think doing this blind is absolutely 💯 correct it gives a neutral prospective to the fitting 👏
The 3 flat is bonkers lads how mad is that ....that one come out lovely 🤷
Gotta get fitted on grass, not mats. The reason 'static' measurements are more upright is because grass tends to grab the toe in anything other than perfect lies. So having an upright bias helps prevent grass from grabbing the clubface.
I hope you’re wrong lol 😄 We’ll soon find out, they should be back next week at 2* flat.
@@garymartingolf Such an eye opening video! When you get your Pings back at -2 and have the time... a follow up video Part II would be fantastic.
@@TheDarkestForce I’ve had to put them up for sale. They wouldn’t re swing weight them at my cost or any cost, and having spoken more in depth with Sam, he thinks I’d be plastering over a bad fitting as the shafts aren’t right.
I’m going to sell them and then get a proper fitting.
@@garymartingolf When you do get your next set and I assume you'll be using a flat light angle ...I'm sure lots of us would love to see Part II. I've subscribed and will stay tuned. Cheers.
I have really enjoyed your recent vlogs with Sam. Listening to you both talk golf fitting is an education in itself. Just over a year ago I was fitted for my golf clubs and must admit it was the best decision I made. The improvement in my golf over the last year is very noticeable. Being fitted has helped me develop a consistent technique and build my confidence in the game. Once you can see improvement you start to believe in yourself.
Thanks for a full year of great golf content. ⛳️🏌️♂️
I can see you breaking 20K by the New Year. 😊
Wishing you all the very best for Christmas and New year.
Cheers 🍻
Late reading this John. I appreciate all your support this year! It’s the regulars that have keep me going in times where views have been poor, I really couldn’t have done it without you and a bunch of the other loyal viewers 👌🏼 Happy new year 🙌🏽
As someone who started the game not long ago, I was a slicer who was fitted 2 degrees flat with my irons, never again will o go to the free high street fitting
Sorry to hear about that. Theres still people fitting to try to get the interaction with the sole central, and not considering ball flight!
You broke the code. Now to break course records.
Too bad your launch monitor doesn’t show dynamic lie or face impact. You really need both to shine a light on the improvements here.
I run a GCQuad at home and found my delivery was heel up 5-6 degrees. After switching to 2 upright clubs and working out early extension I’m generally pretty close to 0 now. But can hook quite a bit. But when I hook often I’m out of position with the handle high again so I don’t attribute the miss to lie angle.
Gaz ..what do you think of those plastic lie boards then 👀👀👀🤷🤷🤷 can you put one down and see what comes out
I’ll show you what I think of them plastic lie boards on the Christmas Day special! 😂
@@garymartingolf I was fitted years back for ping irons using that stupid thing 🤯🤯🤯😂😂
It‘s called Lieboard for a reason. I lies most of the time
Ping chart indicates to me green (2 upright) however physical fitting I’m blue (1 upright).
What length shaft do you use Gary, are they longer than standard
My current set are 1/2” longer in Ping. Im starting again though as they can’t be swing weighted to D7 (currently C9). Im going to get fit from Sam this time around ⛳️
@@garymartingolf ive just booked a loft and lie fitting with Sam, when I had a driver shaft fitting with him he checked my irons as I thought they had got heavy since I changed grips, the were D8 but they are 1” longer which he said was about right if they are D2 at standard length.
@@stephenshaw7980 that’s tricky, because if you want them to feel lighter in mass, he can’t add more weight in the head to lower the SW or they’ll end up being even heavier in mass. Want you thinking? Has he suggested anything ?
@@garymartingolf I contacted Callaway who said they would look at them but to be honest I’ve got used to them as they are, but I do think the lie is too upright that’s why I’ve booked the session with Sam
Fitting great if you can find a Brilliant fitter . Otherwise you may aswell buy of the shelf .
100% agreed! Since doing these videos with sam, I’ve realised how valuable a fitter is and the gains in performance if you get the fitting and build right.
What are p790 irons like to bend keep meaning to go get them checked look to up right at address.
Looking forward to this gazatelli
once you've seen the Spaniel, ( eg. 09.48 on) I'm sorry Gary, I didn't really hear anything else that went on waiting on the reappearances. 😂
I don’t know what you mean lol, was their an advert pop up or something 😂
it seems nobody else did either, its the big black Spaniel (shadow) bottom left of the screen
Also look at 07.25 when the puppy looks straight at Sam appearing to listen, and 07.28 when the puppy hands back the club. 😄
Haha this is my video suggestion 💪💪💪
Thanks 👌🏼
Bending from 2 up to 2 down is a fair way and that might be very risky for your current clubs. However, I would first buy a used but matching club of eBay, bend it in Sam’s studio and test it to death before making such a big change to your full set.
The PING color-code3 chart is just a starting point, and for me turned out to be useless. Static fitting with PING has me with a FLAT lie, but actually swinging a club with a Lie Board always has me 1 degree UPRIGHT.
Another thing to consider is that not every manufacturer has the same standard settings. Mizuno irons tend to be 1 to 1 1/2 degree flatter than PING in the standard setting for both manufacturers.
Wow.… so impressi
Honestly, shocked! I would have never ever put myself in a flat lie without doing this experiment.
Static fitting is just a guide. I was fitted at Ping years ago, 3 degrees upright. Over the years, as your body changes, I reduced it to 2 degrees. On a recent check with the fitter, we had a play with my Srixon forged irons, and ended up 1 degree flat. Producing a mild fade, but consistent, which is what we all want. What happens at the ball is more important, with the flight giving us the feedback we need.
Loft is also greatly affected by swing mechanics. Most people at over 12 handicap better off spending money on lessons instead of wasting it on club fittings unless you are very tall +6'2" or on the shorter side -5'8".
Imagine how frustrated you’ll be if you start smashing it now! Very interesting.
He wasn’t afraid of a random nozzle rocket
He were 😂 that was the only place he could stand and still be on camera 😅
I will just watch it anyway 😅
3* flat is a shocker. Would never have guessed anything close to that.
Gary always misses left, flat was an obvious move
Forged faces are a marketing ploy lads dont we think 😂 my srixon are forged face 🤷
Im 2 up but like it this way hate a miss right
Man knows his stuff hope ping can bend them for you but from memory ping will only move them 2 degree
That would get me to standard. They’re at ping, they’ve not said they can’t yet 🤞🏼
@@garymartingolf fingers crossed boss
Hi Gary just had my irons at ping Gainsborough and they bent them from 3° flat to standard and cost me nothing they even repaint the colour code and my irons are 4 years old, which I think is a fantastic service
There are club fitters and club fitters. A colleague went for a fitting at American golf and it was a joke in comparison my fitting experience with PXG. Looking at this fitting this goes a step further. WHERE ARE YOU BASED. I may be paying you a visit
So my take away is “get fit by the right person, company.” Otherwise you will spend a small fortune for a sub-standard offer.
I’ve personally fitted to the industry standard level, and I’ve learned more in a month off sam than I’ve learnt from any brand training course in 10 years! Theres not many guys who leave no stone unturned like sam.
We need a platform for people he’s fitted to leave a reviews as everyone I’ve spoken to can not believe how long he spends with them to get it right.
@@garymartingolf I’ve found his website. Derby is a couple of hours away for me, however, I will be organising getting over to him. I play PXG and will probably stay PXG, so will go to him for my replacement set.
Keep up the good work Gary. With you new clubs, I’m looking forward to you beating James. 18 hole comp split across your two channels must be on the cards
Just goes to show how fitting is important I have been fitted and does effect ball flight
Gone are the days are tall people upright / short people flat ???
They’re in my book from now. If they have a consistent path, ball flight data lead, 100% 👌🏼
@@garymartingolf I miss a lot of iron shots left
Those simple recipes were never true. It’s just easier for the average not well trained sales person in a basic golf store
flat!
Your shots are landing a few feet from the line. Lessons unnecessary.
It was a lot better! I just want to share with everyone, that the perception of tall is upright and short is flat is nonsense! Go off ball flight data if you have a consistent path.
Mouth breathers lol
It’s my fault! I had the worse cold, but with crimbo coming up, I couldn’t cancel, just had to get it done ☹️