EP251 - PHEV mixed mode driving and economy explained.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2019
- Finally another road trip video with the PHEV. 2 appointments and lots of hills and mountains, slow urban driving and highway speeds. I explain how I plan my trips, when and why I choose different driving modes. If you do some planning around your trips and figure out where and how to charge, you won't find another car with better fuel economy!
Change.org Petition for a battery/software fix from Mitsubishi Japan:
www.change.org/p/outlander-ph...
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Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Group (Tips, Tricks, Experiences, help and assistance):
/ outlanderphev
PHEV Watchdog (battery and car monitoring system):
www.phevwatchdog.net/
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Music by
MBB, Finland
/ mbbofficial
All music licensed under a Creative Commons Licence if not otherwise stated.
creativecommons.org/licenses/...
and
creativecommons.org/licenses/... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Perfect! That's answers all my questions! Now i only need to buy a plug in hybrid with towbar and no battery software bugs. 😉
Thanks, Emil. Are you after a used one?
Thank You Andy, your videos are very informational. I have had my car for 5 days so I am learning. I have learned a lot so far, but do have a couple of questions. 1) What is considered Hybrid Mode while driving 2) How do I use the "Save" Button. I use it while driving, and in that mode, it still uses power from the battery, so I am unclear on its true function. 3) when in EV mode, and we go above 45mph, and want to engage the engine, what is the best way to do this...4) do you always drive in ECO mode? Thank you so much...
1.) Hybrid is when the engine drives the car as well as the electric drivetrain. This can be at the same time or alternating by either having an empty battery or you pressing the save button. Both runs the car in hybrid mode.
2.) Save button does what it says. It saves the current battery state of charge (SOC). For example you have a trip where you drive highway and later on in the city to reach your destination. It makes sense to use the save mode on the highway to keep the battery at a certain level. You drive on battery power in the city to reach your destination. If you don't use save it will use up all the battery first in your highway drive and you end up using the engine one your las leg. This is far more inefficient.
3.) You can either press the Save or Charge button to do so. This depends on your trip and what kind of speeds you drive. 45mph is a good threshold where EV driving gets less efficient in this car and the ICE gets more efficient. Use save if you want to keep the charge level of your battery for later use (city driving), use charge if you want to re-charge the battery while driving (this only make sense until the battery reaches around 80% SOC, then switch from charge to save mode to keep the battery at this 80% level)
4.)Yes. Even now in the Tesla, I always drive ein ECO/Chill mode. It makes the car more efficient and I like the slower response of the gas pedal.
Always make sure to arrive with an empty battery at your destination if you can recharge. This ist the most efficient way to drive the car.
Basic rule ABC - Always Be Charging. Plugin as much as possible.
@@unpluggedEV THANK YOU So much...I have had "hybrids" before, and I also own a Tesla, but this car seems to be a bit more hands on, but manageable....I will continue to watch your videos...I also have an IPHONE. Do you feel it is worth the money to buy the power app...like your watchdog for android. R
excellent video..one of your best. answers a couple questions for me too about when best to charge on uphill and downhill.
Yep, do some quick planning and put some thoughts into it and the car is amazing.
Great video, as always. There is one surprising observation about Charge mode that I would like to share. If you are descending a (big) hill and are regenerating alot ( say B4 or B5 ), then the car will decide to turn OFF the engine, even though Charge is engaged. I presume this is because regen is pushing in as much electricity as the battery is able to take.
That is exactly correct. Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the episode Andy. A couple of things where I think a bit differently:
- By using "Save" I often get above 2km on the GOM again and then I can press EV button again.
- I believe that using "Save" instead of "Charge" is better, as I will not have to include the energy loss of running the generator and charging the battery, I would expect energy loss of roughly 10-15% doing that. My measurements indicates similar figures, about 1/2-1dl less petrol per 10km (from 0.8 to 0.7 under my driving conditions). By pressing save for 20-25km on the highway I often have 5-6km of battery when going into EV mode again, which allows me to optimize my last 15km to home on smaller roads.
- I always try to end up around 2km short on battery when getting to a charging destination as the last kilometers often are below 60km/h. This means that you can run the battery lower than 30.6% down to around 27% - I think) and it allows you to drive on available electricity that you otherwise wouldn't be allowed to use.
And also note that the car only has one gear, this means that it is only above 60km/h that you can drive purely on petrol. Below 60km/h you will always drive electric, but the electricity may be generated by the engine via the generator. This also contributing to the inefficiency of the car above somewhere around 105-110km/h, but this is of course also due to the bulky exterior.
Just a few thought s from my side. But I am still learning, I have not owned my car for a full year...
charge and save use the same generator
@@KenWerkSolar yes, but charge runs the motor to generate electricity to the battery. Save only regenerates electricity, e.g when braking.
@@ervjhb That is not correct. Both Save and Charge using the engine the same way. Only difference is that Save mode alternates between petrol driving and EV driving (charges battery for a bit and uses this charged energy then again in EV mode).
The car has two hybrid modes, series and parallel mode. Below 70km/h it drives in series mode (petrol engine runs the generator but the motors drive the car) and above 70km/h it runs in parallel mode (engine drives the front wheels and recharge the battery at the same time to increase battery charge).
@@unpluggedEV . Andy, I don't believe that is 100% correct either. I like to drive on the highway with cruise control on at 85km/h. In save mode it always runs in series mode but charge always switches to parallel mode after a minute or two.
I've never seen series mode at this speed. It always uses parallel mode above the 70km/h. That's what the manual says too.
There is one exception though if the battery is below 25%, it runs the engine in series mode even on the highway to charge the battery as fast as possible (up to 70kW). This is similar to the power mode (kick down).
And look at those incredible stupid dark coloured roofs in the new estate Andy.
That adds a huge amount of heat in summer- crazy!
When we put a new roof on in 2012, we changed from brown tiles to white colorbond, much MUCH cooler in summer!
👏👏👏 Great numbers.... Next SCHOOL DRIVING Andy 😂
Dear Andy, I find the speedo on my MY14 Outlander TD is legal but inaccurate. I use my separate Garmin GPS for navigation and speedo cross reference. Typically an indicated 100kmh on the factory speedo is actually only 95 real kmh. In order to not frustrate others on single lane roads I always try to set my cruise control at the GPS indicated speeds rather than the speedo so in my case 106kmh on speedo is actually 100kmh actual. Yes its only a small point but because virtually all vehicles have an error I thought I would share this with other viewers. FYI I did double check these numbers using an android app that measured speed and it was consistent with the Garmin GPS. Sorry this isnt specifically hybrid related but when we all try to coast to save fuel it is nice to consider other driver's rights to drive at real speed limit. Cheers from sunny SA
Yep, every car does that. The Dog shows you the same numbers using the GPS of the mobile phone. Mine is actually worse as yours as I get only 94km/h when the odo shows 100km/h.
Of course the downside of "Charge" mode is that it will use more fuel. I read approximately 4 Litres per 100kms driven, extra. So you have to very carefully think about if it is worth it or not to use Charge mode at all. Fuel is expensive!
I actually found it uses less fuel when used wisely. The recharged energy can be used in EV driving later and gives a better fuel consumption than driving in Save mode. Especially on longer journeys.
@@unpluggedEV Andy you can save yet more fuel, if you drive uphills with ev mode, put charge mode off before uphills, if you have enough ev range charged.
Use charge mode then flat road places. This charge mode also maybe raise your soh as my case!
Does your version of this Mitsi have Adaptive Cruise control... if so what happens with B0 etc when the cruise control kicks in to slow you down going down a hill?
Hi Andy, thank you for the great videos. I'm a proud new owner of an Outlander PHEV and I have some questions about the car:
1. Is it good for the car when I consistently changing B0-B5 while driving? Say I'm stopped at the red light, I use B0 to start driving, before approaching to another red light, I change to B3-B5 to brake.
2. I don't always have access charging the car, even at home. Is it a good idea to charge the battery with gas while driving? I live in California where gas is about $3.90/gallen.
Thanks in advance
Thank Derick.
1.) Yes, that is totally fine but you can leave it in B5 in city traffic, no need to set it back to B0. You can do almost one-pedl driving with B5. It won't use more energy regardless the B setting.
2.) I would charge the battery while driving higher speeds on a highway or motorway and use the battery power on slower parts of the trip. As a general rule, drive electric below 75km/h (~45mph), flat road and downhill and everything else start the charge mode and drive in hybrid.
@@unpluggedEV Thank you Andy. :)
> Sees 30+ minute video
> Sets playback speed to 1.5x
:P
As long as you get the advertising, I don't care :D
This video was over 90min long originally. I should have live-streamed it...
is there a difference between „save“ and „charge“ while driving 100 km/h? I ask because the engine has a particular RPM at that speed and drives the generator with that RPM - so, same RPM for the generator - is it possible to generate more power (Charge) with same RPM or does the electric power the generator can produce relate to the RPM?
At 100km/h the engine consumes around 10l/100km from which some goes directly into the propulsion of the car and some into the battery to charge. The system does it dynamically and distributes the power between driving and charging. Even on slight hills it will use these 10L but charges the battery less as most of the energy is need to push the car uphill.
The charging power is not related to the RPM as you would think but I'll do some testing and show this in a video...
Andy, I would love to see some more analysis on series vs parallel mode. On my intermediate trips, i always have the dilemna between shorter charge mode driving in parallel mode versus slightly longer save mode driving in series mode. The fuel consumption seems to be nearly identical, but I don't know if one is better than the other for other reasons... Mechanical or electrical...
It is nearly identical. I just have the feeling the CHARGE mode helps a little bit better and burns fuel more efficiently due to longer running times and optimised efficiency. Hard for me to do some testing as I mostly drive in EV mode. I'll see what I can do...
I am also very interested in this test. As the car only has one gear, there are definitely speeds on flat ground where it in theory should be able to run without charging the battery much. I have performed tests where I think I get a better result by using save, but it is hard to verify as I rarely drive on petrol and as I need to rely on the average usage reported by the car.
As long as the cur runs in parallel mode, save should really be better. But that is under the assumption that the car tries to stay in parallel mode (or maybe I should state that it tshould try not to use the battery at all). But this is a tricky thing and whether petrol only, parallel or serial is better depends on the speed. The border between serial and parallel is pretty well defined at 60-65km/h (often closer to 60 when slowing down, often closer to 65 when accelerating - real speed not the needle). This is however depending on more things as well and this is when it gets interesting as I haven't figured them all out yet.
I found the lowest consumption on my 2018 Outlander PHEV is to drive in EV-mode and B0 regen-mode in urban areas, and SAVE-mode for speeds higher than 70km/h if I am driving longer than the capacity of the battery. Always use a GPS (google maps) so you can plan your driving. The ultimate goal is to have drained the battery at the moment you reach your charging destination (home). I try to avoid using regen-modes as converting the rolling energy to electric energy and then back to rolling energy has significant losses compared to just coasting. I am also trying not to break because; breaking = regen-mode = Significant losses. Thus I am planning my position in the traffic, such that I can reduce the amount of braking as most as possible. In my mind, the two biggest energy consumer is the losses of energy when you have to break and hard accelerations.
does the car also recuperate, when you use the normal brake paddle?
Yes, but not very much. Having a longer duration to the "slow down" by using B1 - B5 regen will recover more energy than a shorter duration push on the brake pedal. Anything more than light foot on the brake will engage the friction brake ... and that energy will be lost.
@@wblairhoggI am always using the break instead, but as if i had an egg between the foot and the break pedal. The only time i use the b-levels are when going downhill. The reasons for that are several:
1) it is easier to get exactly the right speed so that you can roll into a green light instead of stopping at a red light, or a queue as well.
2) I find it a bit dangerous to play with the paddles in tight traffic
3) I must (want to) always go back to b0 after retardation and that will be a lot of paddling
4) As I often drive other cars, e.g. rentals, I prefer to have a driving style that is not too different from car to car
I have compared the range for driving cautiosly using the breaks and using the paddles and I find no relevant difference, if there is a difference it would actually be in favor of using the break pedal (might be due to breaking a little bit too much when using the paddles, losing energy in regeneration instead of maintaining the speed). So therefore I decided to stop using the paddles. This is of course not a scientificly performed comparison, but it is good enough for me. But note that one must use the break pedal carefully.
Brake pedal goes up to B6 in fact, so some people are driving in B0 all the time and just use the brake pedal to regen. You need to watch the power meter to see how far you can go without using the friction brakes.
You have the key in the slot?
Yeah, charging the little battery inside.
Just kidding :D It's the key FOB for the electric gate ;)