EP260 - How many PHEV Methods do we have?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2019
- I lost overview: Express, plus, short... what procedures doe we now have? Everyone seem to invent their own procedure. If one does not work, people are modifying it until it work. BANG, there we have a new method.
My battery keeps declining fast. 8-10 days is the magic number until the next drop occurs. As per design? I don't think so...
As with all DIY procedure, do this at your own risk. If you have problems with the vehicle, always talk to your dealer and workshop first.
Change.org Petition for a battery/software fix from Mitsubishi Japan:
www.change.org/p/outlander-ph...
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Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Group (Tips, Tricks, Experiences, help and assistance):
/ outlanderphev
Mitsubishi Outlander Phev Battery/Bmu issue Group:
/ 2193599527399011
PHEV Watchdog (battery and car monitoring system):
www.phevwatchdog.net/
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We should get the Automobile Clubs like ADAC involved. I'm sure they can pressure Mitsubishi by informing their members about this issue.
Ante je najbolji!
@2:43 no worries Andy - Canadian owner here and the earliest cars we have (MY2018) all were shipped with the EV mode button. The way to avoid engine starting in the cold is to always keep the climate control OFF before starting the car, hitting the EV mode button then turning on the heater. (That said it would always fire at temps below -10deg C)
Hi Andy 😎 Good video as always.
Despite there being a million ways to do the reset now, lets not forget that the battery will degrade eventually as a normal Lithium battery always will.
But our degradation is an artificial one to eek out the time before warranty kicks in.
I wouldn't overly worry about the battery, heres why. ( arguably wrong lol )
Of course its all about profit.
MM have obviously originally worked out that the battery will last only 440 full cycles before it is down to 80%, but we don't do full cycles via BMU control for that reason, instead there is a buffer at the top and the bottom, as everyone knows & you have often said.
So the cycles have already increased.
FYi: Our Lithium cells will do on average 2200 full cycles before they become a problem. ( in theory )
( Next time you replace your cells there are cells that do 20k full cycles plus so Im told, its all about cost.)
This BMU control allows the 440 full cycles to increase dramatically, hence degradation at 0.1 % every few hundred miles or X amount of charges.
That's only taking us to 80% which we know is easy to reach as owners are charging much more and doing much higher miles than probably anticipated by MM on full electric, so we use more charge cycles.
Even so, if you take into account that a simple reset will increase that, MM thought there would never be issues & the few that do write them off as faulty batteries, replaced under warranty. its all tax deductible, lol.
What do you think?
They know, we as owners are going to fiddle with the car and adjust them. Well, as humans we will fiddle with all tech & everything else, we cant help it 😊 its what we do.
Anyway, Stay Charged m8 😎👍
Andy,
. Surely the problem lies with the BMU. If we disconnect the BMU from the car, the BMU will lose all of its power while not being connected to the power OR the capacitors/ condensers which would otherwise cause the BMU to remain powered up. Once its lost its power, it should return to its original state, blank! Reconnect it and it should then reset itself to 40ahs. Its going to be the installation of a simple switch.
I don't think it's that easy. The 8V seem to corrupt its data and make it reset. Just disconnecting it from power may not do anything.
Good ideea! If you find a way for this, you are brilliant!
@@unpluggedEV Its got to have power to hold the data. Kill power and it'll release the data and refresh once the power is reconnected. It shouldn't affect any other data logs in the car.
@@unpluggedEV In all probability, MMC being as confused as they seem to be, it probably will work.
If this works, it should be called the "C Low Ray" method!
Even if you reset Secular there is still the Cycle Deterioration (Current In+Out) which in loose terms relates to how far you've driven under EV.
I got a commecial for "XY find it" with this episode. I don't need that thingy though, I have an Outlander PHEV with wifi that is so poor that I have installed a phone in it. This means that I can do ll the things from that ad and more... 😂
is there a plan for this BMU thingy and a known location of where to find it in the car?
It is behind the side panel, next to the charge port.
I too have been following the methods and likewise confused, but get the general idea. There are a few interesting issues. One might be software versions. I assume MM have changed ther software over the years. So the effect on an MY13 may be different to an MY18 for example. As far as distance travelled between degradation, I have found that when the battery is depleted I run the ICE for a few miles then charge only after the battery is cool. The time between degradation has been increased to around 17 days. Still rubbish, but may be the system recognises ICE use, even if only for a very short time, on a regular basis and that this then slows the degradation by the software as it assumes the battery is being used less. No idea but there seems to be a strange logic somewhere. The amount of fuel I use is tiny. I still do 1000 miles before I need to fill up the tank.
I got a 0,5A increase with the Hilden, but it does not increases everyday.
Yerko Hernan Donoso what year is your Phev? Also can you elaborate on the procedure?
@@matradlinski8084 it's a 2017 mod. I simply run the car out of ev range and then press charge for 5-6 km then press ev and use it up. If I can push charge again I do it, and this time for less km 4-5 I have 48km to work and the car gives me 34-35km on EV range. When I get home I set the heating on for 30 min. And before I get to bed I plug in the car. I have only done this a week and gone up once, so I'm not sure if I'm doing it rigth
I have used this and got 8x0,5 ah jumps up.
"Hilden-method" (CHRG/ev/hybrid)
This method involves using the CHRG-button while driving, together with "Jennings-method". Also, as the "Jennings-method", this is a "safe" method, and will not void any warranties or destroy anything in your vehicle. Again, also with this method your BMU will increase battery-Ah, if successfull.
When going for longer journeys, first drive the motionbattery empty, then drive parallel mode and press CHRG. Charge up 4-6 km (3-4 miles?) ev range, switch to ev and use the charged km. When ev range used, press CHRG again and charge up 4-6 km (3-4 miles?) ev range. Use this in ev, and then drive in regular hybrid mode for some kms. Then repeat CHRG/ev/hybrid-procedure again and again….
When leaving the car for the (night) charging, apply Richi Jennings heater hack method also with rest times and hope for a few 0,5 Ah increases after charging. Its important to remember that this will not work "the next day", but has to be applied over months and milages.
Andy here's a data point about secular and cycle deterioration: on a car that had no procedures done, a Battery Estimated Capacity Info reset was performed (without following it up with Control Information Reset, i.e. still at 40Ah SoH). Then it was charged to full, and next day driven to empty. At the end of this first day after reset, the SD already jumped from 5.00 to 5.02%, and CD jumped from 0 to 0.31%.
I know, it changes after every charge/day basically. This feeds then the formula to calculate the new SoH.
Another fact: after a BattCapaEstimatedInfo reset, the real % SoC value (data list item 1) stays unchanged (and the Ah SOC value is recalculated and rewritten into data list item 19 to add up to the new 40Ah SoH value at that particular constant SoC percentage).
So on one hand in this state after the "half reset" the SD and CD are updating, but at the same time you'd expect the relative (i.e. the %) SoC value to get shifted as a result of this "unlocking of new capacity", but this doesn't happen.
It is a bit crazy, isn't it? It might not be if you think about this from the perspective of the CapaInfoReset being only a "half of a reset" that doesn't actually do anything, but show pretty numbers.
Until you "apply the change" with the Control Information Reset procedure. But then you "lose" the 40Ah number.
After getting +0.5Ah via Jennings rest method, my parameters got much better. 10% decrease on both. I have had a decrease of 1% with every 0.1Ah earlier, but now 10%. This implies that my battery really is in much better shape than what the BMU has estimated it to. My low battery voltage at ~20% SoC is 3.8V which also indicates this. Making a Lindqvist or whatever procedure is resetting everything, which is not a good thing. Instead one should find the right parameters for the individual battery. However that is to be done...
How are you reading these params? I assume you have access to MUT? You could always do a BattCapaEstim + ControlInfo resets followed by a DBCAM to get a "true" SOH value.
If one wants to tweak the number, one way is the BMU Manual Write procedure and playing with the Stop Time and Integrated Current Values there (might need to be followed by a Control Info reset).
If you have MUT and haven't done a reset yet, would you mind saving and sharing your BMU Learned values backup file?
@@tuberculous4691 They are available on the web interface if you are a paying user of the PHEV Watchdog.
Andy, you're talking about the Gibson and Hilden method, but there is no mention about them on myoutlanderphev.com. Perhaps those where mentioned on Facebook, which I don't have, but could somebody elaborate on myoutlanderphev.com?
I have used this and I have got for this "method" 8x0,5 ah jumps up, but this need time, more Facebook Phev groups.
Hilden-method" (CHRG/ev/hybrid)
This method involves using the CHRG-button while driving, together with "Jennings-method". Also, as the "Jennings-method", this is a "safe" method, and will not void any warranties or destroy anything in your vehicle. Again, also with this method your BMU will increase battery-Ah, if successfull.
When going for longer journeys first drive the motionbattery empty, and then drive parallel mode and press CHRG. Charge up 4-6 km (3-4 miles?) ev range, switch to ev, and use the charged km. When ev range used, press CHRG again, and charge up 4-6 km (3-4 miles?) ev range. Use this in ev, and then drive in regular hybrid mode for some kms. Then repeat CHRG/ev/hybrid-procedure again and again....
When leaving the car for the night or before charging, apply Richi Jennings heater hack method also and charge battery and hope for a few 0,5 Ah increases after some time. Its important to remember that this will not work "the next day", but has to be applied over months and milages.
Wait for EP261, Reinier!
What a multiple copy paste ... 11:53 ... this is what I did post at myoutlanderphev ;-) ... just a tuned version of what somebody else shared in FB
Hence I said, everyone is doing their own method now. Far to many and very confusing. But all having the same ingredients and base...
@@unpluggedEV Anyhow ... what Kryst.. did bounce to you and you put in your video: it is 1:1 my text on myoutlanderphev , and the MY2013 mention there is my PHEV. Which it is now much more happy after a BMU reset. And for this I need to thanks your video posted sometime ago about Lindqvist .. I think all in all .. there are not too many variations ... as you mention the basic ingredients are same .. all around the 12v battery which can confuse the "poor" BMU firmware. So ... big thanks to Mr. Lindqvist
why are you saying press the save button when on the screen it shows charge button