EP60 - The B-Setting-Myth of the Outlander PHEV
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 เม.ย. 2018
- In today's episode we're taking a closer look at the different B-settings and answer the question: Do you use less energy while driving in B0 than in B5?
This is something which pops up frequently on the internet and I wanted to address this question by doing this test. I' explain in details what the B-settings actually do to the car's behaviour and what the best settings are for driving around.
Please let me know in the comments what settings you're using with your PHEV and why.
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Group (tips, tricks, experiences, help and assistance):
/ outlanderphev
PHEV Watchdog:
phevwatchdog.net/
Music by
MBB (Kiitos paljon!)
/ mbbofficial
All music licensed under a Creative Commons Licence
creativecommons.org/licenses/... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Well explained. "Remapping" is the right word. The accelerator appears to be remapped into a accelerator / brake pedal. Akin I suppose to locking an auto in 1 or 2 except the car scavenges the energy back. We have one these. They brilliant. No pollution in town / slow moving traffic and efficient on the highway with a great range. Almost free to commute to work. In a couple of weeks we are going to do the staycation, 880km only stopping for fuel and food.
I’ve only had my phev for a few days now. I live in the mountains. I’ve come to the conclusion that 1) only worry about B settings when your foot is off the accelerator. 2) use the B settings to control speed of descent while regenerating. 3) when flat, set to B0 and try to “hypermile”/coast around target speed and use regular brakes if needed (the car still regens when breaking). Overall this seems to give you the most miles for the energy used.
Hi From Canada! I am new to the PHEV world, but so far I tend to leave it on the default (which is 2, I believe), unless I am in stop-and-start city traffic, then I bump it to 3 or 4.
Hi, I was one of those people... :) I have the car for only a few days. Thx for your explanation.
Shame shame I had the same thought that I need more energie. Was planning to check it with the dog. But you did it now great.
Got you covered, Rene ;) I was thinking the same when I got the car new and without the Dog it's a bit harder to see what is actually going on... But try yourself again and put a smile on your face :)
Put it on B0 as you start and then control the breaking with your pedals... B0 doesn't break the vehicle so you can gain speed on downhills... And then you look far away and break slowly and it charges the battery. This is why mitsubishi made +/- hand pedals so convenient...
Spot on Andy.
I often drive around all day in B5, it makes ZERO difference to energy used over a set route, just allows me to do more one pedal driving. We managed 46klms purely on the battery yesterday with some aircon use, mostly 60 km/h but a few sections of 70 and 80 km/h, all on battery and I think from memory, ALL on B5.
I use cruise control to demonstrate it to a sceptic at a set speed as you did at the end (ie: foot right away from the accelerator pedal).
If you change from B0 to B5, nothing changes at a steady speed on level road.
P.S. How’s your PHEV box going, very happy with mine.
I had some trouble with opening the parcel... well, it will be in the video. Haven't processed further with the box itself yet. The day has not enough hours to cope with all that...
Hi Andy, Great video! on the motorway, I use B0 which allows the PHEV to coast, on the smaller roads I tend to drive in B1 or B2 so the PHEV doesn't roll away to quickly. B5 does give you that one pedal driving experience. The PHEV is good around. Just think in 5 year time if they bring out a high capacity battery you may be able to do 200 or 300km in ev mode. Cheers
Yes, I tried using B0 on motorways, but as long as there is no downhill section, the car cannot really coast without dropping speed. If they bring out an Outlander EV, I'm in!
Trevor, Your pout is spit on, but even 100 to 130 km of EV range would be revolutionary. Greater range than that really needs better batteries, because it does it make sense to carry too much battery Wright.
Hi Andy, great video as usual. I agree with the findings in your video but have two points to add. Firstly it is more efficient to not use the energy in the first place rather than use it then try to replenish it. This is of course because of losses in the discharge and charge systems. The losses will vary from vehicle to vehicle but I believe that the losses are about 80 to 90% in the Outlander PHEV, meaning that you can only get back 10 to 20% of what you use through the regen (discharge/charge) cycle.
So the point I’m trying to make is that in stop start traffic when the vehicle speed has to be adjusted and anticipation of the need to slow down is needed by the driver, B0 can be more economical than B5 since the driver can anticipate the need to slow down and coast to a slower speed pulling zero kw from the battery. The tendency in B5 is to overcompensate and slow the vehicle too quickly. This requires you to use power to speed it up again (as you had to do several times in your test) this results in a net loss when speeding up again therefore wasting the 80% losses associated with charge/discharge scenario. In heavy traffic where this happens continuously these losses all add up and range is affected. I can experience the difference in my daily commute since I have to travel in very heavy congested traffic on the famous M25 London orbital motorway in the UK.
My second point is an idea for another test you could do related to this one. I discovered whilst optimising my own use of the car, that in B5 when the battery is not full and able to accept regeneration, you can get a lot more regen from the brake pedal In B5 than you can in B0. You can demonstrate this by doing a test. Get the car up to a steady 100kmph then apply the brakes using the brake pedal in B0. You will get about halfway into the blue (regen) area on the energy meter. Now try the same brake test from 100kmph in B5. The needle will drop about twice the distance into the blue as it does in B0, and sometimes all the way to the bottom of the blue (regen) section of the energy meter. I have never got the needle all the way to the bottom in B0, it just doesn’t seem to be possible. I would be interested if the Watchdog corroborates this, and if your car behaves the same as my car.
You're spot on, Harry and 100% correct. There is no correct or wrong way to use the B-settings. It all depends on your driving style and conditions and how much you care. I agree, you will get around 20% energy back when regen. It is still better than getting 0%back like in an ICE car though and can give you around 10-15% higher range in EV mode. Letting the car coast is the most efficient way to use the energy initially put into the car to accelerate it.
Yes, there is a hidden B6 setting when you press the brake just a bit. You can see it when slowing down in B5 and then press the brake the power meter goes even further down into the blue area. If you press further, the friction brake will come along. Awesome technology, they thought about almost everything ;)
Driving style is everything, even with regen in an EV.
It always makes me laugh when people in a powerful ICE vehicle drag me off at the lights, then slam on the brakes at the next traffic light.
Many people don't drive the phev properly. B setting is for breaking not driving that's why it's called b setting for breaking not d setting for driving.you drive in b0 and break in b1_5 to generate power back to the battery. It's pretty simple stuff. Drive in b 0 and use b settings to break.
Spot on, driving in b2 or heck, even b5 makes absolutely no sense to me. Every time you release the pedal you are wasting all the energy you just created into "regen".
You will never regenerate more or even equal the amount of energy you produced, some energy is always lost in the process and you end up negative!
@@heimir86 Yes. I suppose some people like pushing the pedal down all the time, but it's too easy to release and lose speed and energy that you have to put back from the battery.
Greate video as always Andy.👍
But... when you are at a standstill and dont touch the acc.pedal. no matter where the B is at, the car wants to start moving. In B5 then the regen should stop it so I would not need the breakpedal by the redlights. 🤔
That does not work. When you standstill there is zero regen as the motors are not turning. Stepping on the brake prevents the motors from creep, so no energy been used at a traffic light. As soon as you lift your foot off the brake, the motors are engaged and move the car forward.
great video, now I know. it is really a myth to me before :-)
If you use the flappy paddles properly you maximise your range :)
Nice
Hey Andy,
Been away for a while so grabbed a coffee or five to catch up on your videos. I don't know where
this myth started but have seen it too. I experience exactly the same as you, but I pretty much run on B5 after
starting the car every time. With mine and I guess with all PHEVs if you do go to B5, you can regulate the
amount of braking/regen when coming up to an intersection or going downhill with the throttle position, so in
effect you''re braking with the accelerator (which will confuse ICE drivers to the max !)
All in all I reckon its a brilliant system with quite a lot of thought going into the design.
Loving my PHEV, 2200kms so far from the last petrol fill-up with a quarter tank left !
I see you still have the AVAS system running....no time to disconnect it yet ?
Good to be back...look forward t the next video.....
Andy :~)
Welcome back, Andy!
I used to drive in B5 all the time when I got the car new and was fascinated of the regen. After 1 year or so I realised that it is much easier to coast in B0 instead of balancing the pedal in the right spot. In city driving B5 is still awesome. My brake pads and discs are like new!
It is a bit of a learning curve when you come from an ICE car where the regen does not exist. A PHEV is the ideal car to prepare everyone for the real real BEV. With the small battery you always try to squeeze the most out of it and avoid the ICE kicking in as much as possible. Once you get an EV with say 300km you're used to drive carefully and it will be a breeze...
We drive ours in B5 all the time here in lumpy NZ. It makes hill descent really easy as you balance the amount of regen needed to maintain the speed against the gradient using one pedal driving style. Barely use the brakes. Our Kia Soul EV does this really nicely too. The only bummer with the Outlander PHEV is that it has no regen on a fully charged battery while the Soul EV has full regen available (we live at the top of a 2km hill and experience this after every charge).
Hi Shaun, I live in the Tablelands west of Cairns, so plenty of hills too, so regen gets a workout, yes same with me, no regen at all
on a full charge, so it feels weird in B5 when nothing happens when you take your foot off the accelerator LOL !
Thanks Andy,
Yes it has changed my driving style, and you certainly notice those hills for two reasons, one, watching the guessometer dropping kms rapidly
and the other watching them increase while re-genning !!! Overall I'd estimate my vehicle running costs dropped 70%, and as I'm a computer technician most
of my trips are shortish and have many days where the ICE doesn't start at all.
It looks like the centre point between eco and charge is actually B2
Thanks Andy, as a new PHEV driver I had noticed this, but wasn’t sure why it happened. In B5 with cruise control on, does the car coast also?
In B0 the other day I pulled the right paddle for a couple of seconds to go back to D mode and the car did jolt a bit, so it must have been coasting at the time. Still trying to find my defaults, but about town B3 does give a more in control driving feel.
As an ex ICE driver I thought there was always some regen on above B0 and the additional power was to overcome this, so power to motors drops, but power diverted to charge batteries. Another way to show this would be to show charge to the batteries on your watchdog at the same speed at different B setting.
Keep up the good work! 🏴
Thanks very much. The car coasts only in B0 unless you compensate the B-setting with your right foot and bring the power meter back in neutral. With CC enabled you can only paddle down to B2 because the car will need this bit of regen in case it needs to slow down to keep your set speed.
It is a bit of learning necessary when you come from an ICE car and experience the regen settings. You'll learn over time. I just spend (probably) weeks driving around and analysing every bit of what the car is doing, why and how. There is no right or wrong what you're doing it's just getting it right for your comfort and driving conditions.
People on the forum often ask what the best B-settings are. Well, ... 0)
I’m getting used to it now, so is my wife, but when I was using the paddles to change the regen setting last week, she said “why are you flashing your lights at that car?” 😂
Hahahaha, you should explain to her what the paddles are for :D
When I want a lazy day I use B5 for one pedal driving / If harvesting Re-Gen then use the paddles and B0 to get good speed on down hills and then any of the B-range without severe slow down
That is right, Janet. I'm doing the same, some day it annoys me and I try to squeeze everything out of the battery and the next day I just let the car doing what it wants to do. And this is the beauty of it and makes the vehicle so versatile and usable, I think.
I have 30 km to work and the B0 mode is the beste for me. In D (B2) I can drive 27km. In B0 I came to work and still has some km left . The temperature was 6-8 Celsius most of the days I tried it out, but the day I tested the B0 the temp. was -2 celsius....the coldest day.
Hi Andy. I've been watching your videos for 6-8 months now. I was waiting for this PHEV to reach us in the U.S., watched just about anything on this vechicle. Anyway, you're channel has the most information I've seen world-wide. But I saw something the other day on a dealer site. The sales rep said " If you run the electric down too far, the vehicle will only operate in 2 wheel drive." It sounds right, since the electric drives both axles, but is that something you've discovered yourself? I've never seen anyone else mention that anywhere. How easy would that be to have it happen? I live in Pennsylvania, snow is a given here.
Thank you for your channel though. I'm looking at buying the 2019. We don't have a PHEV dealer within 75 miles, so I'm on the fence because of maintenance issues that may have to be dealt with. Michael
Thanks you very much Michael!
I've never heard about shutting one motor off if the battery is too low. Technically you cannot run below ~30% because the engine will start and recharge the battery. If the battery is empty (30%) and you have a tow load while going uphill, the car may use more energy than the generator can recharge. The SoC will further drop until 15% I believe. That is when the turtle symbol lights up and power to cooling and heating is limited as well as to the motors. I had this only once in such an occasion but didn't watch the power distribution between the axles, so cannot say for sure it's not happening. It also might be something new cars might have now due to changed software they're running...
On the other hand it does not make sense as the AWD system is more efficient than just a single motor (see Tesla comparison between single and dual motor models).
I would not be too worried about the lack of dealerships in your area. So far Mitsubishi always gave us loaners to get back home if we had to leave the car over night. I'm sure they will do the same in the US. How long is the warranty on the PHEV over there, is it 3yrs?
Thanks again for your comment Michael.
I only use B5 to reduce wear on the brake pads!
What about when you are using petrol? Is it better on a long journey ( say 400km's) to keep the car on B0 and only use the higher settings when going down hills?
Hmmm... Gotta think about this ....
Hello, thanks for this experience (related to self question)... But in conclusion, we would think to stay always in B5 mode (hopely set by default...)?... What justify the others mode B0-B4??? Thanks for your answer;-)
you say that B0 saves energy, but doesn't it also NOT charge the battery? so yes, i can let the car coast further but with B2 setting I charge the battery which gives me energy back, so i can't really save in any setting
Hi Buddy like your videos I have 1 question I just ordered a Phev petrol 2.4 but not got a change point at home I have a station local do you think it's practical?
No, not at all. You need to have a port at home as it charges slowly. If you use the fast charger all the time, it dregrades your battery fast.
Hi I am in Scotland and PHEV does only 18 miles on EV. Is this correct as I have seen you driving around 50Kms how is that possible . Is there something wrong in 2019 PHEV?
Start from EP1...
I have seen all of your videos on Battery. Not sure for a 5K of mileage what degradation or EV range should one get for a 8 months old car
Hi Andy, I agree with everything in your video, and I have similar driving patterns as yours. I also use B5 on curving mountain roads for that very fun one-pedal driving.
In the meanwhile, I don't think the myth out there is that cruising on B5 wastes more energy. It seems that most people actually think the oposite - that cruising on B5 would save most energy.
While this may true in some cases in town as it would prevent those less careful drivers from using the friction brakes, it is irrelevant when cruising, as you've demonstrated.
I think you should also mention that technically speaking, B5 indeed wastes more energy than B0 because the regen has relatively big energy loss (just not while cruising).
That's why I often find myself driving on B0 even in town when there is less traffic, and paddle B0-B5 when I need to stop. However, it seems the tangible benefits of this are quite small to justify the inconvenience of that constant paddling.
Thanks for your comment, Dobrin. The B settings, in fact, the whole car is a very complex and complicated system. I still think we're only scratching the surface with what we're experiencing and analysing here....
I was going to talk a bit more about the B-settings but this is definitely a video itself so I kept it simple (hahaha). It's very hard to measure the actual performance and efficiency of different B-settings as this is as dynamic as measuring the battery itself. Both need a lot of observation and conclusion to make some sense out of all that. I'm still not convinced if a higher B-setting is more or less efficient than a lower B-setting due to so many unknown factors as efficiency/heatloss of the converter, heatloss in the battery and so on. Regen braking is wasting a lot of energy we formerly put into the car. It is still much better than transforming it into heat with friction brakes like in ICE cars but still a wasteful process. B0 is your friend under all circumstances as you said. I mentioned it in some of my videos already: make sure the glide and coast figure in the Dog is as high as possible and the regen as low as possible. Hardly achievable with traffic around you and the timely constrains of the day. Eventually you have to get somewhere in time. But sometimes you have all the time of the world and just let the car glide........................ ;)
Have you noticed you have to give more gas to overcome the breaking effect? No actually I havent. Are you sure you meant to say that or have I got you wrong?
It's a remapping of the gas pedal. The zero point gets shifted when using the B-settings. You have to press the gas more to overcome this new zero point but you don't use more energy. The power meter and the Dog shows that same energy consumption with B0 or B5.
@@unpluggedEV Yes I thought so, more misunderstandings. Thanks for clearing that up.
I am very sorry yo hear all these nonsense, mythbusting what? The laws of physics? Go back to school, learn about how energy is not created from thin air and get back to your subject.
All recuperation/regen systems consume kinetic energy that is taken from the vehicle, so more regen means less efficiency. If this is not clear to you, i dont know what is. Cheers.