If you look up pre 2015 LX570 without the extra lip, it get 658 on the RTI. So AHC and KDSS LC/LX570 essentially have the same RTI if you don't have the stupid plastic sport chin.
Had no idea what this was about when I started the video and even less sure now that I've finished it. Very technical video and has me interested in this RTI thing. Thank you.
This oozes Land Cruiser technology. The frame and rear axle/suspension design, as well as the box frame are built almost exactly like the Land Cruiser was in 1998. Should be pretty reliable. It would be interesting to directly compare the LX600 chassis to the Sequoia.
Hi Dan, I know you've already done the FK8 Type R, but please show us the nerdy bits of the 2023 Type R if possible. Would be great to see any changes and how the knuckles have changed with the wider track. Thank you
Good to see that Toyota has never wavered from its tradition of putting the cheapest tires on every one of its vehicles. In 1990 I sold new Toyotas and the bad model came with BIAS-PLY. Yep. Not even radials lol.
Excellent work as always Dan! Cannot find this detail anywhere else. It would be incredible to see a few minutes of your driving impressions for ride & handling, to see how that might tie out to the engineering bits you highlight. But otherwise, I can't get enough. I was really hoping this would be an articulation monster - something less flashy than a TRX or Raptor, and better for the trail. But even before you put it on the ramp I could tell it wouldn't be great, what with that 1) super thick front sway bar, 2) short upper link in the rear, and 3) hardly any length to the rear coils.
Its not meant to be a rock crawler, its meant to be an actual truck that does work but can also drive fairly comfortable off road. Thats why it can tow 3k lbs more than a Raptor.
Since the knuckle is made out of aluminum how much “stronger” is this next generation. I remember a lot of Toyota guys complaining about how slim the knuckle was on previous gens and claim it would twist and bend on aggressive off-roading. How much stronger is this aluminum knuckle considering aluminum requires a increase in diameter since it isn’t as rigid as steel?
I bought a new 4runner TRD ORP with kdss last year and it came with mediocre tires. I plan on using them up before changing to something more off road. I find it funny when people change out their tires right away, but since it's a new rig they don't actually want to take it off road. Then by the time they do want to take it off road their tires are all used up. After about 30k miles when the newness has worn off, that's the time to switch the tires.
I changed out tires several times the very 1st day of ownership. The tire shop bought the tires from me, which helped save money on the price of new tires.
Don’t waste your money on the pro get the sr5 off road, it has half inch more ground clearance due to no hybrid battery and has higher tow and payload.
What is the advantage of having easy access to the pads? In all my years of changing brake hardware I always either get the rotors turned or buy new rotors to ensure they’re perfectly smooth. Perfect conditions seem unlikely, especially for an off-road truck, so why would only replacing pads be a good idea?
Not sure on trucks but for my cars with them makes it easy to swap out pads if different ones are needed. But I suspect it can also make easy work of inspecting pads too for even wear.
@@ALMX5DP oh inspecting does make sense. Before I got my car the PO replaced pads only but the rotors were grooved and so the new pads needed to be replaced again by me. Rotors are cheap too so not sure why they weren’t replaced
@@oneslackr "not always the case" so may as well do the unsafe thing and not replace or at least turn the rotors smooth? not sure the point you're making.
It's a global design. I would guess less than 1% of brake pad swaps in sub-Saharan Africa get the rotors turned. Toyota wants to run the same parts globally so it uses a design that will work everywhere. It doesn't prevent anyone from turning rotors, just makes it convenient for the half of the world where turning rotors isn't a common practice. And it's also the same design Toyota has used since at least the 1970's. The calipers on the first disc brake FJ40 were the same design. Other than size - they're nearly identical. So it may also be a function of "if it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it."
@@ALMX5DP You literally did it to me lol. I pointed out the issues with the approach, clearance, now fos hooks, etc. And then you said "well that's fine because they're not the big 3" as if Toyota isn't the largest car company in the world. It's always this way with Toyota fans......
@@PeakDecline who are you quoting there because I never said it like that. I love my F-150 and have never owned a Tundra. Just being realistic about how products tend to be given the resources and time available. But this has nothing to do with the OP hearing excuses from Dan in this video. If you heard anything like that feel free to share because I didn’t interpret much to be an excuse only an explanation.
Most half ton pickups are driven empty. This system is much improved for the average light duty/family recreational truck. Also this truck tows very well for a half ton. If towing heavy loads regularly with this you got wrong vehicle
May not be as much as the trx or raptor but at least u won't get stuck on the side of the road with a broken down American made truck! I'll take a toyo over any of those other trucks all day long! I own a 2018 TRD with just under 200k miles and it drives like it was brand new with 0 mechanical issues! I've had all the brands and Toyota is the most superior truck out there, period! Especially when ur counting on it was ur work horse every day day in and day out hauling a trailer daily with over a ton of weight on it!
Toyota Tundra was designed by Kevin Hunter at Calty Research Design, and is manufactured in a factory in San Antonio, Texas. Kevin sounds very American to me, Calty’s locations in Newport Beach and Ann Arbor are in fact located in America. And if you didn’t know I can inform you that the location of the factory, Texas, is in America. Tundra seems to be very much American made, and even more than that: American designed too.
Yea my American made tacoma like to take a shit alot seems front shocks blew out at 20k miles rear diff went out twice rattles on the inside like a tin can toyotas are pos in my eyes
It's like the ultimate dirt road truck. I bet with the new rear end and those Fox internal bypass shocks it would ride great. But for anything more it's a pretty disappointing package. The tires, the approach angle, ground clearance, and lack of front tow hooks.... Toyota wasn't making this for serious off-road use.
Yeah they may have taken their market research a bit too literally, but still I think it’s not a bad attempt given their relatively small budget and timeframe compared to the big 3.
"It's like the ultimate dirt road truck." Well, since a dirt road or gravel driveway is the only off-roading 99% of Tundras will ever face it's perfectly set up for that. At least it also has low range for crawling over those vicious speed bumps at the mall. If anyone is likely to take their vehicle off-roading it would be Jeep Wrangler owners & Jeep says that only 10% - 15% of Wrangler owners go off-road. The reality is most 4x4s spend their life on pavement.
It's pretty clear Toyota chose to make it mostly a highway oriented truck. The platform is unified now across all BOF models. And although he hasn't tested it yet, the new Land Cruiser (riding on the same basic chassis as the tundra) has an RTI of around 730. It will out flex everything on the road except possibly a wrangler Rubicon. But we're not seeing any of the systems that the LC uses on the new Tundra or Sequoia - namely the longer travel shocks, eKDSS or sway disconnect, etc. The Lexus GX550 and new to USA Land Cruiser 250 along with the Tacoma all get various versions of those designs. The lack of them on the Tundra isn't the result of not having designed them. It's an intentional choice to use heavy sway bars and firmer spring rates to improve highway handling at vs off-road performance. I wish Toyota would offer a more off-road oriented version with the eKDSS and great suspension that it already developed.
A good set of upgrades for someone wanting to pre run an older Tundra for cheap, maybe be the optional TRD lift kit plus a bit of a rear welding job. My research shows the ball joints, UCA and LCA are likely compatible with the old frames and spindles.
The new tundra is desifned with thicker sway bar and stiffer springs to carry weight and is more overlanding than rock crawling focused, if you want a crawler go with a taco or 4runner
I definitely don’t change brake discs at every pad change. I don’t use cheapskate cast iron brake pads, I use proper quality items for good braking performance instead of penny-pincher stuff.
Nice thanks for doing these types of videos and the last I remember between the LC and LX was interesting which LC scored very high for its size. Please do one against the Lexus GX and the 4Runner Offroad model with KDSS see which ones does better on the ramp.
I think I like my LC100 better... I don't love Hybridization. If I were to buy Tundra, it would be with it the electric motor. Actually, I think I would buy a 2nd Gen. I am not one to buy the first or even second year of a new model run. I want to wait until they work all the bugs out.
And the Land Cruiser Heritage edition scoring 661 is still the king. It has the highest RTI score measured by Dan Edmunds.
The KDSS is awesome
@@aaronbryan5095 The LX570 without KDSS but with AHC got nearly 600 score.
If you look up pre 2015 LX570 without the extra lip, it get 658 on the RTI. So AHC and KDSS LC/LX570 essentially have the same RTI if you don't have the stupid plastic sport chin.
Would love to see the raptor bronco
Had no idea what this was about when I started the video and even less sure now that I've finished it. Very technical video and has me interested in this RTI thing. Thank you.
This oozes Land Cruiser technology. The frame and rear axle/suspension design, as well as the box frame are built almost exactly like the Land Cruiser was in 1998. Should be pretty reliable. It would be interesting to directly compare the LX600 chassis to the Sequoia.
Hi Dan, I know you've already done the FK8 Type R, but please show us the nerdy bits of the 2023 Type R if possible. Would be great to see any changes and how the knuckles have changed with the wider track. Thank you
Zr2 Silverado next
Please don’t forget to do the ZR2 have been waiting for you to do the 2022-23 Silverado ZR2. Thanks.
Good to see that Toyota has never wavered from its tradition of putting the cheapest tires on every one of its vehicles. In 1990 I sold new Toyotas and the bad model came with BIAS-PLY. Yep. Not even radials lol.
I would like to see 2023 Ram Power Wagon
Excellent work as always Dan! Cannot find this detail anywhere else. It would be incredible to see a few minutes of your driving impressions for ride & handling, to see how that might tie out to the engineering bits you highlight. But otherwise, I can't get enough.
I was really hoping this would be an articulation monster - something less flashy than a TRX or Raptor, and better for the trail. But even before you put it on the ramp I could tell it wouldn't be great, what with that 1) super thick front sway bar, 2) short upper link in the rear, and 3) hardly any length to the rear coils.
Impressive. I learned something new today. Thanks. All the research I do/have done and this is something I hadn’t seen anything about for this truck.
Its not meant to be a rock crawler, its meant to be an actual truck that does work but can also drive fairly comfortable off road. Thats why it can tow 3k lbs more than a Raptor.
Love the tech talk. Keep these up CnD!
Weird that the upper control arm looks different than what’s on my 2024. I didn’t realize that they made any changes
F150 TREMOR or RATTLER please
Since the knuckle is made out of aluminum how much “stronger” is this next generation. I remember a lot of Toyota guys complaining about how slim the knuckle was on previous gens and claim it would twist and bend on aggressive off-roading. How much stronger is this aluminum knuckle considering aluminum requires a increase in diameter since it isn’t as rigid as steel?
Great video! Is there anyway you could test the 2nd gen TRD Pro Tundra that you had in your channel previously?
So now you have mud and snow inside the wheel barrel packing the back of the front brake calipers? TRD is an appearance package.
?N?ice review. How about the Tremor?
AFAIK the TRD Pro has a stiffer sway bar in the front. I wonder if a normal Tundra would score higher
is it possible if you can do a RTI of the old Tundra Pro and or TRD off road.
I bought a new 4runner TRD ORP with kdss last year and it came with mediocre tires. I plan on using them up before changing to something more off road. I find it funny when people change out their tires right away, but since it's a new rig they don't actually want to take it off road. Then by the time they do want to take it off road their tires are all used up. After about 30k miles when the newness has worn off, that's the time to switch the tires.
I changed out tires several times the very 1st day of ownership. The tire shop bought the tires from me, which helped save money on the price of new tires.
Nice!
Can you do one older tundra TRD pro?
Don’t waste your money on the pro get the sr5 off road, it has half inch more ground clearance due to no hybrid battery and has higher tow and payload.
What was the score on the 2nd Gen TRD Pro?
What is the advantage of having easy access to the pads? In all my years of changing brake hardware I always either get the rotors turned or buy new rotors to ensure they’re perfectly smooth. Perfect conditions seem unlikely, especially for an off-road truck, so why would only replacing pads be a good idea?
Not sure on trucks but for my cars with them makes it easy to swap out pads if different ones are needed. But I suspect it can also make easy work of inspecting pads too for even wear.
@@ALMX5DP oh inspecting does make sense. Before I got my car the PO replaced pads only but the rotors were grooved and so the new pads needed to be replaced again by me. Rotors are cheap too so not sure why they weren’t replaced
@@dbeckMSP : "Rotors are cheap too...." Not always the case on all vehicles.
@@oneslackr "not always the case" so may as well do the unsafe thing and not replace or at least turn the rotors smooth? not sure the point you're making.
It's a global design. I would guess less than 1% of brake pad swaps in sub-Saharan Africa get the rotors turned. Toyota wants to run the same parts globally so it uses a design that will work everywhere. It doesn't prevent anyone from turning rotors, just makes it convenient for the half of the world where turning rotors isn't a common practice. And it's also the same design Toyota has used since at least the 1970's. The calipers on the first disc brake FJ40 were the same design. Other than size - they're nearly identical. So it may also be a function of "if it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it."
I hear a lot of excuses for the Tundras shortfalls. Glad I got myself a Raptor and called it a day.
What excuses?
@@ALMX5DP You literally did it to me lol. I pointed out the issues with the approach, clearance, now fos hooks, etc. And then you said "well that's fine because they're not the big 3" as if Toyota isn't the largest car company in the world. It's always this way with Toyota fans......
@@PeakDecline who are you quoting there because I never said it like that. I love my F-150 and have never owned a Tundra. Just being realistic about how products tend to be given the resources and time available. But this has nothing to do with the OP hearing excuses from Dan in this video. If you heard anything like that feel free to share because I didn’t interpret much to be an excuse only an explanation.
Hopefully Toyota will commit to get rid of leafspring suspension on anything, hopefully next gen HILUX will have coils and disk brakes in the back
You sure don't see many newer tundras on job sites
Something smashed our buddies finger
Why isn't the rivian R1T on the board? It got 510 in an earlier video.
I've towed trailers with leaf springs and coil springs.
Coil springs are worst idea for truck suspensions. Yuk
Most half ton pickups are driven empty. This system is much improved for the average light duty/family recreational truck. Also this truck tows very well for a half ton. If towing heavy loads regularly with this you got wrong vehicle
What kind of frame does the Toyota have camped to the Raptor and TRX? is it Fully boxed or C channel.
I wish Frame comparison was part of each video
the TNGA-F platform is fully boxed on the Tundra
May not be as much as the trx or raptor but at least u won't get stuck on the side of the road with a broken down American made truck! I'll take a toyo over any of those other trucks all day long! I own a 2018 TRD with just under 200k miles and it drives like it was brand new with 0 mechanical issues! I've had all the brands and Toyota is the most superior truck out there, period! Especially when ur counting on it was ur work horse every day day in and day out hauling a trailer daily with over a ton of weight on it!
Toyota Tundra was designed by Kevin Hunter at Calty Research Design, and is manufactured in a factory in San Antonio, Texas. Kevin sounds very American to me, Calty’s locations in Newport Beach and Ann Arbor are in fact located in America. And if you didn’t know I can inform you that the location of the factory, Texas, is in America.
Tundra seems to be very much American made, and even more than that: American designed too.
Good luck getting to 200k with the new V-6 turbo and cheapest oil maintenance most Toyotas get.
Yea my American made tacoma like to take a shit alot seems front shocks blew out at 20k miles rear diff went out twice rattles on the inside like a tin can toyotas are pos in my eyes
@@panagiotisf7228Tacoma is highest selling midsized pos in America. I'd take one.
@@pistonburner6448 I know it's made in Texas but the parts don't come from here lol
Do more of these types of videos! I love learning the gritty and needy of these inner workings of cars and trucks.
It's like the ultimate dirt road truck. I bet with the new rear end and those Fox internal bypass shocks it would ride great. But for anything more it's a pretty disappointing package. The tires, the approach angle, ground clearance, and lack of front tow hooks.... Toyota wasn't making this for serious off-road use.
Yeah they may have taken their market research a bit too literally, but still I think it’s not a bad attempt given their relatively small budget and timeframe compared to the big 3.
"It's like the ultimate dirt road truck." Well, since a dirt road or gravel driveway is the only off-roading 99% of Tundras will ever face it's perfectly set up for that. At least it also has low range for crawling over those vicious speed bumps at the mall. If anyone is likely to take their vehicle off-roading it would be Jeep Wrangler owners & Jeep says that only 10% - 15% of Wrangler owners go off-road. The reality is most 4x4s spend their life on pavement.
It's pretty clear Toyota chose to make it mostly a highway oriented truck. The platform is unified now across all BOF models. And although he hasn't tested it yet, the new Land Cruiser (riding on the same basic chassis as the tundra) has an RTI of around 730. It will out flex everything on the road except possibly a wrangler Rubicon. But we're not seeing any of the systems that the LC uses on the new Tundra or Sequoia - namely the longer travel shocks, eKDSS or sway disconnect, etc. The Lexus GX550 and new to USA Land Cruiser 250 along with the Tacoma all get various versions of those designs. The lack of them on the Tundra isn't the result of not having designed them. It's an intentional choice to use heavy sway bars and firmer spring rates to improve highway handling at vs off-road performance. I wish Toyota would offer a more off-road oriented version with the eKDSS and great suspension that it already developed.
The 1969 Chevy pickup had rear coil springs! When they went square body Chevy pickup they went back with leaf springs! Ram wasn't the first!
Made it way more complicated than it had to be. Worse for off road. Worse for cost to modify. I’m sure it rides wonderful when you go to the mall.
A good set of upgrades for someone wanting to pre run an older Tundra for cheap, maybe be the optional TRD lift kit plus a bit of a rear welding job.
My research shows the ball joints, UCA and LCA are likely compatible with the old frames and spindles.
As a 2021 tundra Trd pro owner there isn’t enough change to really make this a better suspension and worth the $25,000 increase in price.
The new tundra is desifned with thicker sway bar and stiffer springs to carry weight and is more overlanding than rock crawling focused, if you want a crawler go with a taco or 4runner
I wonder how 35" or 37" tires would effect the test score? I know they'd drop mpgs
Yeah, Toyota hates to use good tires on their new vehicles. Very disappointing.
Do a video just like this on the chevy silverado 1500 zr2
Enjoy videos like this. Thank you.
I don't know about you; but if I am changing brake pads the rotor is coming off to at least get turned if not replaced. Does require caliper removal
I definitely don’t change brake discs at every pad change. I don’t use cheapskate cast iron brake pads, I use proper quality items for good braking performance instead of penny-pincher stuff.
Same here. Especially for an off-road vehicle, seems silly to no make sure the surface is perfectly flat
Take off the anti sway bars and try it again!
This
Nice thanks for doing these types of videos and the last I remember between the LC and LX was interesting which LC scored very high for its size. Please do one against the Lexus GX and the 4Runner Offroad model with KDSS see which ones does better on the ramp.
I think I like my LC100 better... I don't love Hybridization. If I were to buy Tundra, it would be with it the electric motor. Actually, I think I would buy a 2nd Gen. I am not one to buy the first or even second year of a new model run. I want to wait until they work all the bugs out.
My 18 Ram 2500 also has coils front and rear. Coils in the rear are nothing new, my old 69 chevy 3/4 ton 2wd had coils front and rear.
Dan, any progress with your 4Runner and modifications? I am interested how an engineer would mod their 4Runner with KDSS.
Looks weak and cheap... bet it bend first jump. Did you even disconnect the sways?
Interesting that they got rid of the piggyback reservoir on the front shocks
Can you do a Chevrolet Silverado ZR2
That fingernail looks great. 😉
am looking for power wagon result
I’m thinking about trd pro name is just a good marketing logo but not enough capabilities for off-road jobs