Fun fact: Stannis' forces did some of what you advised in Blackwater. He used a sword while scaling the walls, and his battering ram was a ram used by some guys using an overturned boat as cover.
And there are soldiers right in front of the gate(tyrion even gives his pep talk there, if i remember correctly). Until they use the tunnels to take them from the rear.(funnily enough it's also the mud gate stannis was ramming)
+4cMaiden The Tyrells would still have killed him anyways if Stannis didn't move against his brother. In fact, it was Tyrell bannerman Randyll Tarly that convinced Renly to kill Stannis in the books. Randyll told Renly that he has to kill Stannis quickly before fighting the Lannisters because Stannis will be a threat to his claim, no matter what Stannis says or does.
The biggest issue I had, with that episode, was the taking of High Garden. That place is described as a fortress with supplies that could last a siege for years. Not to mention how Euron was able to travel so fast in such a short amount of time. He went from attacking Yara in the east, back to Kings Landing then headed West around the entire continent in that short of a time to Casterly Rock. HBO is really getting sloppy in their writing.
Its not that people are traveling quickly, its that more time is passing. They are simply skipping time a lot more and jumping from people being in one place to being at their destination because the show has less time to show a lot happening. But it still takes the same amount of time to get from one place to another. Perhaps at these moments they should be putting *2 weeks later* or something to help people better understand this, but there you go.
I just assumed that Eurons forces where divided, so that one group followed Euron and the other one lead by, I don't know maybe a general or something, attacked the unsullied. That would make some sense at least..
There is just too much deus ex machina happening all over the place. Thats what happens when the show doesn't have the guidance of the books to follow.
Of course they aren't good a sieges. They were new to it. Which is why they are only good at fighting open field but if the gates are opened them sure they can fight in sieges but not when they don't have good siege weapons. I feel these being nickpicked by Snapjelly are so annoying, cuz it goes to show he hasnt taken any info or had watched the tv show. The unsullied has no archers or horses nor any siege engineering experienced except only using ladders.
Well, the Unsullied was led by Greyworm. Greyworm is a fighter, a soldier to precise. He is not a battle commander. You can compare this to the Battle of Blackwater. Stannis used all the tactics you mentioned because he was a seasoned war commander. Greyworm simply dont have enough knowledge and experience on laying siege on castles.
@@petroslouvris4325 Clear difference. These two don't know what they're doing when it comes to battles. What's worse is they could've just read a few books to create a good battle or just hire a person who knows about this
@Fabian Kirchgessner I would've preferred if they didn't bother showing highgarden. Literally no siege or nothing but dead bodies and Lannister soldiers....
@@ellieliebefrei3862 also tight formations don't specifically have to take small steps all soldiers back then would have to be trained to march the same pace and long steps.
The "impregnable" gate had no portcullis an important part of defence because they are easy to drop but tak time to pull up. Most real castle gates have multiple gates an portcullises to hold you up and trap you where all sorts of unpleasant things can be poured and dropped on you. Instead the impregnable gate has a single barn door bar which is not even locked down. They did not need a secret passage just something to poke through the crack and lever up that bar on the door. We should of had nice scenes where all the unsullied crowding around the gates get red hot sand poured on them. You think they would of bothered digging a ditch for a counter weighted draw bridge as well. Multiple ditches to make it harder to just march up to the wall like that. The walls should also have hoardings or matriculations.
I don't know if this answered anything but Stephen Biesty explained in one of his artbooks on castles that only very daring or foolish troops climbed the ladder. Perhaps this was to show the Unsullie were fearless?
The simple explanation is given later in the show: Casterly Rock was left severely undermanned because Jaime took near everyone with him to sack Highgarden. It was, essentially, a decoy and the soldiers there were, probably, expendable. Who would have left good soldiers there to die, if they were needed elsewhere. The soldiers probably were the least able to fight and maybe the ones could not keep up with a long and fast march. I would bet there were less than a thousand men in Casterly Rock, maybe 500. Enough to keep the castle and make difficult to take the castle for the Unsullied. The problem with not enough men is you need to get the spread very thin. So the commander probably was forced to take every available man to the walls and just keep a couple of dudes at the door. They were probably defending with cooks and maintenance guys. The big problem with the scene is Casterly Rock should be as much impregnable as The Eyre or The Bloody Gates. The castle should be on a cliff 1.5 miles high, with a very narrow passage to walk to get to the door of the castle. And practically the only way to take it is with dragons or subterfuge like Lann the Smart did.
Given how in the real world the Ottomans failed miserably to take Rhodes with 70,000 man army against a defense force of 2,500, the Ottomans suffering between 9,000 and 15,000 casualties with the defense suffering just a few, then 500 should be an adequate defense force for an impregnable stronghold. Little more than 350 men would have been the equivalent defense force to face the Unsullied if the defense had the same ratio to attackers as the Siege of Rhodes in 1480AD.
You should do a best fights in GoT from a technical perspective. Not a "look at this awesome fight!" but more of a "this guy actually knows how to parry with a sword!"
Danil that bothered me aswell tbh... u can just break down a siegetower and buidl it back up on land - wouldnt cost days (like when builidng it up from scratch) but hours and would make A LOT of sence....
You're not gonna put together a siege tower right in front of an enemy castle. Some tacticians would see that as an opportunity to rout the enemy or deal a lot of damage to the army's core. Also siege weapons are heavy, to be putting that on a ship AND carry 8,000 unsullied as well as supplies necessary for the battle is a bit much. Especially when the Ironborn fleet was destroyed.
For some reason, some people don't seem to understand that, the first assault on the castle in the episode is an illustration to go with what Tyrion is saying. Just wanted to point that out.
This whole plan was shit in a first place, lannisters have castle, at least 2000 more men and better armor, meanwhile unsullied have no bows, no siedge equipment and no experience with sieges. They should have used the secret tunel in night, hide their main force, open gates and then attack. And there wouldnt be needed any siege
Pitviper2015 Yeah, but im not talking about jaimes plan, but about tyrions. He did not know that and jaime left for reach and if jaime didnt and had all those men manning his castle like tyrion expected, logic tells u that unsullied wouldnt be able to take the casterly rock since they have 0 experience with western sieges, dont have bows and siege equipment, they are outnumbered and have worse equipment in general. Tyrions strategy is absolute bullshit
Radovan Toth the frontal assault was needed to distract the Lannisters. A single spy can get past the gaurd unnoticed, but to open the gate ten men were needed
Snap, my man, you literally know 100000000000000% more about medieval battle tactics than the guys who write this show !!! Trying to apply logic to why anyone in Thrones does, well anything really, is a losing battle.
rasgul, I am right. Fewer is used for anything that is countable, not just things that have been counted. You can count casualties and therefore would use fewer. You cannot count something like water and would therefore use less (however if you were talking about "pints of water" you would say fewer as that it countable). Try applying a tiny bit of logical thought before going off on one dude.
It isn't about whether one can literally count it, it is about whether it can be measured in units. There is nothing subjective. Are you seriously saying that it would be "less" before the battle but "fewer" after?
Here's my review for this episode. First this wasn't a siege. A siege implies they set up camp and began and tried anything other than just storming the walls. Second, well yeah that's it really it's impractical as hell and when the Lannisters saw there were no siege engines they really should have noticed something was up.
One problem I had with the siege is that Greyworm and the others only open ONE gate and that allows them to take the entire castle. If you look at it in certain shots it shows that Casterly Rock is a concentric castle, which means it has an outer wall AND an inner wall, plus it looks like there is a central Keep of some kind. Do they really expect us to believe that Greyworm and gang opened the gates to two walls and the keep without getting spotted? There should be a ton of guys watching the gates, no one sounded the alarm? Then again I'm not sure If it even shows them having taken anything besides the outer wall, did they?
It does appear that Westeros' offensive siege craft have not kept up with their defensive technology. This could be because of the presence of magic. Until ~150 years before the books, magic was present, and there was really no need to develop offensive technology. Why didn't they develop it since then, you ask? I don't know, but perhaps it is because of the Maesters' approach to knowledge. They seem to value keeping it safe, not improving upon it, and they seem to have a monopoly on knowledge in the 7 Kingdoms.
why did they rush forward to the wall? why not continue walking in their shieldbox formation until they were right next to the wall, rushing makes them vulnerable as theyre no longer defended by the shields of their friends.
It puts the ladders up faster, as soon as 1 unsullied makes it up the wall the archers probably will stop fireing so rushing forward with a handfull of unsullied could give the bulk of the army a safer passage. their shields arn't that big after all. that would be my guess
About the marching of the lanister army. It was used when approaching enemy as a tool to appear to be superior and larger in sice and lower morale of the enemy units by doing this. Party used the same way as the warcry.
True, the Unsullied have no archers, but what about taking the spears from some of the men in the rear ranks and throwing them? They certainly look light enough. That would at least reduce the number of archers, and give the front ranks a better chance to get to the top of the wall. And as far as disarming the rear rank men? As they advance, they can pick up spears from the dead and wounded, if not actually recovering their original spear from the dead or wounded archers.
Regarding the Lannister troops that massed near the gate but not at it, Jamie explain to Olenna later that only a token force remained at Castily Rock, so those troops would likely be the reserves stationed where they could rapidly move to several different vulnerable locations rather than just guard one. Besides, in the end Jamie admits they were willing to sacrifice all of the troops remaining at Castily Rock so they could take Highgarden and get the Tyrell's gold.
I heard that the battle at Casterly Rock didn't actually happen, or at least the attack on the walls. It was more of an illusion to show what would happen if such an attack took place. However I could be wrong about that.
Yes, but what I meant was that the attack on the front walls never took place. The castle was indeed taken, but it was taken when Greyworm entered through the sewers with a small force and opened the gates for the rest of the Unsullied to enter, so as not to waste countless lives.
Could you do a video about the device used to kill the dragons? It's called both a scorpion and a ballista and even that is driving me crazy! But I'm interested in all the rest, when were devices like that invented, how nimble they are, what were they used for in real life and so on. Pretty please!
They are marching that way because its a strategy. The want to make the defenders think that this is just a parade and they are just passing trough there :D
Maybe the shield bash hits the throat. It could break the larynx. That should stop the Lennister guard. And if we look closer, his head flopping around. So if you hit the chin in the right angle its quite easy to break a human's neck. I think one of those two examples are reasonable
Maybe having a higher view point provides the archers with a better range/aim? Also, maybe it's easier to grab the ladders and push them down this way?
Actually, Stannis' army uses _HIS_ upside-down rowboats to cover themselves from archers in the Battle of Blackwater (Bay). So it's not like it's an unknown tactic to either G.R.R. Martin or to 'Westerosians', but it's within the realm of possibilities that it's unknown to these foreign soldiers...
Building a siege tower takes a hell of a long time and they thought they had surprise on their side. Swift enough that any nearby field army isn't in time to relieve the besieged. But a siege tower isn't typically used like you see in the Total War series or in LOTR. Almost allways it was used to support ladder assaults by placing archers on a platform as high or higher than the archers on the walls, picking them off or surpressing them. This way the troops on the ladders could get up the walls in relative safety. Its not a troop transport via gangplank, so rather useless for this army because like you said the unsullied didn't have any archers to speak off. Plus the assault on the walls was a diversion for the infiltration via secret passage.
The unsullied meeting this random force of Lannister forces once inside the castle does beg the question how Greyworm didn't encounter those forces on his way to the gate, is similar to another question I have concerning the small Lannister force which rushed the gold to King's Landing. How could that small force get the gold there without encountering the huge force of Dothraki headed the opposite way? Unless they took another road, which would seems unlikely. How many main roads does Westeros have going east and west? Those Dothraki had to spend days, if not weeks crossing Westeros, even though the book made it appear instant. There is no way the Lannisters left that much earlier not to encounter the huge horde. Then we see Tyrion show up at the battlefield. Did Dany give him a ride on her dragon? Even less believable was that Jaime received word that the gold was safely in King's Landing. I love the way those ravens are as fast as email. They dart around that continent as if it were the size of Rhode Island or they were wearing Little Finger's jet pack. I can't see how Randyll Tarly could have gotten word from his soldiers so quickly, but that happens all the time in Game Of Thrones. Don't get me wrong, the show is entertaining as hell and I love watching it more than any other show on television, but the writing has gotten very sloppy since they ran out of source material. Martin could have never penned this crap they're turning out here late in the story. Too bad Martin writes so slowly, but I guess that's why his stories work out the details that Dan and Dave tend to ignore.
How much time would need Greyworm to inform Daenerys about what was happening in Casterly Rock? Days at least. A raven, if they had one, would need at least three days to get from Casterly Rock to Dragonstone. A week is much more probable. If we suppose the battle and the sack of Highgarden happen at the same time (because word of both arrives at the same time), Dany was at least three days, more probably, week later. She started to ferry (under Drogon cover, for sure) the Dothrakis to the mainland immediately. Then, after she assembled a force large enough, she head to intercept the Lannisters. This should give the Lannister and the Tarly a week, maybe ten days, to move the gold (and only that) to King's Landing. I would have taken hundred of the most trustworthy men, on horse, and four wagons (one for the gold and the others empty as backups) and sent them to King's Landing as fast as they could. Tarly told the column is stretched very thin, and the tail could not be able to support them if they were ambushed. So they had, probably, sent the gold first and then the food up to the road to King's Landing, as fast as they could. They probably just run up and down the road to check the presence of enemies, but could not scout properly. In my opinion, the battle is not so far from King's Landing.In fact Bronn tell Jaime to leave and run. And this, in my opinion, imply they are a day, maybe two, from King's Landing. For a foot soldier. 60 KM at most.
Mirco Romanato since the Dothraki army was coming from the east, it would seem unlikely that the train with the gold would not encounter them, unless you suggest that Dany was so stupid as to not be following the same road the Lannister army was using to get to King's Landing? Dragonstone is east of KL, meaning they had to pass by KL to get to where the Lannister army was traveling. If I were sending my army west to intercept another army traveling east towards KL, I would certainly have my army follow the same road. There is really only one main road (one fit to march a large army on) from Highgarden to KL and that is Roseroad. There is a very bad continuity issue if the Lannister army is only a day away from KL. That would put them passing through the Kingswood and based on the scenery where they were attacked, it was anything but a forest. In fact, it looked like a midwestern North American desert region. I believe the showrunners wanted it to have an old style western appearance with the Dothraki serving as stampeding indians, but such a setting would place them still far from KL. It would certainly take the Dothraki army a few days to cross the land with all of those horses to rest and feed, so I can't see how the gold train left and completed the trip before Dany's army was enroute, even if they were only a day away (which they were not, based on the scenery). Obviously, for this show purpose, the showrunners made Dany a poor enough general NOT to follow the same road to KL or knew that the main bulk of audiences don't pay enough attention to make it matter. I figure it's the latter. This is one of the many compromises made by the show in order to make their story come to desired conclusions. My point, is that in real world, this would be highly unlikely. That gold would have never made it to KL, unless the Dothraki horde only took an afternoon to reach and intercept the Lannister army and took a very different path west. If they took a completely different path (which would have to be off-road) how would they know the precise point to intercept the Lannister army? If they were traveling, let's say NW, they could miss the Lannister army by days. Doesn't make sense. You would find the road leading from KL to Highgarden and follow it until you meet the opposing arm, especially when there is only one road an army could realistically travel on. This is just one of many compromises the showrunners have made in the story since they ran out of source material. Martin was always far more meticulous about the details. The show has definitely taken a more one dimensional story arc since the source material was used up. The showrunners kind of just spun their wheels, so to speak, around season 4 and 5, hence why we got horrible storylines, like Dorne and the Sand Snakes, and Arya and the Waif; which made little sense and did nothing to advance the main plot. I believe they were hoping Martin would finish the next installment by then, as the Winds Of Winter was expected out in 2014. Unfortunately, he still hasn't finished that installment. Now that so much time has been wasted with stories which did not really advance the main plot, they are making a mad dash to the finish which is why scene like this become so disjointed. I still enjoy watching the show, since the acting, effects, soundtrack and cinematography are phenomenal and they promise to at least have the same ending as Martin envisioned. Otherwise, I can't pay too close attention to the story and the logistics within or the whole thing can become rather comical at times.
Rewatched Tarly father say they must have all the wagon past the Blackwater Rush before night because, if the head of the column is ambushed, the tail could not reinforce it in time. They are in King's Landing, but they must have marched very fast, and the column is very stretched; so much the tail could not reinforce the head in a short amount of time. The possibilities are two: 1) Daenerys intercepted the head after Tarly got news and crushed it so fast news of the battle didn't arrive in time 2) Daenerys is coming from South (the direction of the carts is King's Landing - east - they are on the right side of the Blackwater river and Daenerys come from south). The second is interesting, because they have a river between themselves and the head of the colum. It would be difficult for the Dothraki to battle north of the river, then cross the river and then attack from south. Daenerys dropped the Dothrakis south of Dragonstone and rode with them (and Drogon) to intercept the column. Intercepting them "near" King's Landing
they came to casterly rock by ship, seage towers are a pain in the ass to build and transport, ladders could be transported on the ship or built quickly, this was sopose to be a surprise attack. they did not have time to build towers.
Why the archer would cover them self and the unsullied DONT HAVE ANY ARCHER ? Also, the gates of casterly rock are inpregnuble, visenya ( or rheanys i dont remember) when she saw the castle she was glad that loran bend the knee because even dragonfire could not breach the castle...i hate the people who criticize this sezson just to criticize..
Weirdly enough, despite the slaver saying they were trained in all kinds of weapons, they never seem to use, or even carry, anything but their spears. Which for a professional army like the unsullied really is weird in itself. As for the siege tower: It seems to be a hasty executed plan altogether. Which it is not, considering the hidden entrance, but the lannisters don't know that. The unsullied distract the defenders with their storm to the walls, so grey worm could open the main gates. They weren't planning on actually succeed with the ladders, i think. But you are of course right, that they could have done the attack in a better way.
10:00 min: "They are outnumbered - has less armoured and fewer weapons." I think Tyrion means this: "They are outnumbered - has less armoured [men] and fewer weapons [men, who wielding weapons, compared to the Unsullied]." Every men wield a weapon, but one force A got f.e. 2000 swords (wielding men) and the other force B got 500 swords (wielding men), so that force B has "fewer weapons" than force A.
I don't know about siege towers. Even if you could bring one on a ship, you'd still have to drag it up the cliff side. Boat cover argument is valid. Yes, outnumbered and greater weapons is essentially the same thing.
ofc they have more weapons, they did take their lessons from previous vids and filled their armory with giant sized scythes in case they get some as reinforcements. just because the humans cant use em, doesnt mean they dont have more weapons.
I mean to be fair it was a token force, 2 at the gate is still a little ridiculous because that’s when they should’ve realized they weren’t facing the real army but the whole thing was intentional to trap the bulk of the targareyan army in the castle
Hey Snaps, good Video, but arent you afraid of copyright strikes ? PS: maybe Grey Worm isnt the greates guy to put in charge of a Siege since hes a Soldier and not a Tatcitian .-.
small request id like to have your opinion on greatswords and there viabillity could be in a video or a lectured answer i love what your doing keep it going ;)
A spear and shield in narrow space was the most lethal combination in all of history especially against a sword tactic man .... Some your comments I agree with but others I question highly
you don't take siege towers with you when you're about to besiege a castle, you make them on the spot. also steel arrows piercing wood?? if that's true then how would shields work? and even if it was true you could just use thicker boards
Next battles The long night Gates of Kings landing. Also for the unsullied to make siege towers the battle doesn't show any trees. And the Greyjoy fleet was coming up behind them to ambush them and if they intend to prolong a siege they would've lost more men either way. I gotta say movies and tv shows leaves alot of things from the books.
The reason you don't see that many people at the gate and around and such is explained in the episode. The lannisters moved their 10k army away to attack Highgarden and left behind a VERY small garrison, emptied the castle of all its food and had a large navy force hidden all as part of a trap to prevent the Unsullied from being able to hold the castle for long and to destroy their navy so they would have to literally walk away. It was actually a rather smart plan.
That still doesn't explain why all of those Lannister soldiers were just standing and fucking around in the castle, instead of protecting the main gate.
They simply weren't positioned on the main gate, but instead on the walls that we see the ladders attacking. The Lannister soldiers see the Unsullied have NO siege equipment other than ladders, seemingly all the ladders attack one section of the wall. So the Lannister soldiers position the bulk of their forces on the specific section of the wall to counter the ladders. Then the Unsullied without ladders run over to the gate and wait for it to open. The Lannisters can't simply send a bunch of people to the gate (They don't have a lot of people) and they still don't see any siege equipment like a battering ram so they most likely just have the people in the towers/on top of the walks near the gate shoot arrows at the Unsullied and in general be somewhat confused as to what the Unsullied were doing. Why would they have a bunch of soldiers on the inside of a gate that they didn't think would be opened from the outside? I think the real issue is that we aren't given specific numbers of the Lannister soldiers let inside, I think if they said they left behind only 100 men in Casterly Rock or something a lot of these things would be cleared up.
Ximen because there was nothing to protect you moron. Dont you even watch the show? This was just a suicide mission. The lannisters gave up casterly rock because it had nit strategical use anymore
The Jokenyu Yes, but I gotta ask you the same question, do you even watch the show? Even if it was a suicide mission, you still want to fight for your life. Look at 8:44, if they had been protecting the gate, the Unsullied wouldn't have been able to open it. So the Unsullied would get slaughtered trying to climb those ladders
vidarDJ16starkill I don't care how many soldiers the Lannister had inside the castle. There were obviosuly enough soldiers to protect the walls, as you could the unsullied got slaughtered when they tried to climb those ladders. So it still doesn't explain why those Lannister soldiers at 8:44 were fucking around in the streets doing nothing
the unsulead were trained as household gards and a defense angansed raiders, not siege warfare. without a westrose commander leading them they would be unprepared for a siege.
I have never really seen a medieval siege portrayed correctly in a Movie or tv show. The Russel Crow Robin Hood movie came closest as it was a multi staged assault and they tried to weaken the gates with fire before trying to batter it down, but it was still crap.
My friend, a knight, can chat about this like hours. In single movie he can find so many mistakes that I am asking why do not they work with some specialist like you or my friend.
It's still a risky move because that means some of the men will be killed and if you think about it the unsullied are a rather small force compared to other armies So sneaking in at night seems to be safer for the men
@@agentspaniel4428 What? A small force compared to other armies? There's 12,000-15,000 of them. And at the beginning, of those in the army, 8,000 were "Blooded Unsullied" (Blooded= fresh from battle).
Umm around 100,000 dothraki and plenty of dead men not too mention what all of that combined is compared to the unsullied But regardless the unsullied are few but they are strong like the 300
The battle did seem incredibly unrealistic. I chalked that up to lack of budget and time willing to flesh out what should have been an amazing battle, just like what they did with Highgarden. The severe lack of soldier on soldier combat in strategic areas (the main gate for example) almost implies that Casterly Rock was defended by an almost skeleton garrison. Also claiming that this army was the same one built by Tyrion's father, Tywin Lannister, and yet the army is so incompetent that they leave TWO dudes defending the main gate is, in my honest opinion, insulting to Tywin Lannister. That whinging aside, my greatest pet peeve is the absolute lack of decorum for some of the interiors of Casterly Rock. One would think that the richest region in Westeros, yes I am aware that Casterly Rock's main gold mine has run out, would still resemble being somewhat wealthy and opulent. What we see looks vacant and depressing.
movie/battles are almost always good quality bs. HBO should hire TOTAL WAR players to do the writing, atleast when it comes to screaming unarmored light cavalry and spearmen with low missile block chance attacking a lannister army built on very heavy mele infantry or even boltons army with its pike phalanx; Total war players can provide better insights into it all. ya'll win with dragons wild fire and all, but atleast once win the traditional way, flanking and hammer and anvil.
anakon4 use actuall artillery and which moron litteraly puts only archers on the wall and if you know they r going to come from sea its quite obvious they won't have any siege towers ready they might build them on land but as we saw the archers had enough range to start shooting from the second they started getting closer so it was quite obvious that they would moronically rush in with ladders so yeah it's much easier to just to have infantry on the wall and why wasn't anyone protecting the bloody gate if the Lannister were smart they would have like 500 people defend the gate not going to make it a big number because they said in the episode that there were about 2000 man or just put pikes at the gate the unsullied have no archers so yeah isn't it fun to attack pikes from one side without any archers and in an enclosed are no flanking so they would have to rush the pikes and catapults would have killed quite a lot of people because of how clumped up the unsullied were and why not dig a moat have oil ready at the gate to pour it down at the enemy and just wait out until the greyjoys get there and just surround the unsullied and of how important of a castle it was I don't think they would have any guards or soldiers inside the keep so yeah greyworm and those 10 pips would easily get killed so yeahhhh
Lucas Aires yeah like the ladders were only a distraction anyway but if the lanisters are very sly they'd burn surrounding forests to limit what the besiegers can build
Your critiquing a show that displays the act of shoving a sword through plate armor on multiple occasions. This show isn’t very accurate to begin with lol. But yeah you got valid points, I just think a siege tower would require a lot of wood and time to build. Plus, are they gonna bring it in pieces on a boat and put it together on sight? That would take time and give the enemy longer to prepare.
What the fuck, the main 'impregnable' gate of Casterly Rock is just a single layer iron door with a wooden bar? They could have rammed it using a dragon or Grey Worm's head. It doesn't even have a portcullis.
hei the unsullied dont have siege tower obiously and if they built it. it would take days and the lannister could sent backup and attack them from behind and completely surround them plus the euron greyjoy burn their fleet so they have no escape and die fighting.but the main reason why they didn't use the siege towers is because they planned to open the gate from within so there is no need to risk the lannister sent backup to castely rock.Jaime already know that tyrion was going to attack castely rock and tyrion knew that too so they didn't take that risk.The gate are impregnable it cant be destroyed not for a long time they need all the men on the wall and if the gates is all most breach they could just send men to the gate. there are 2 watching if the gate are almost breach or not and they dont have enough men to man the wall and guard the gate remember Jaime leave the castle almost defendsless on purpose so they could attack highgarden and take all the food and gold so they can gain support of the iron bank and buy mercenarys plus the targaryen will have no food so win win and they clear out the food storage in castely rock so they didn't lose the castle only 1000 or 2000 troops and they probably kill 1000 or 2000 unsullied too because they have archers and the wall advantage they fight pretty good too so its a fair trade on kills.That is my teori please tell me if u disagree in the comment i love a good debate
as casterly rock is on a big, well, rock, the bowman will need to shoot their arrows downwards, the step up provides compensation for this change in angle.
Hey handsome! I have a request! I want to see you do a review of the Arya/Brienne duel from GoT season 7 episode 4. It was a great battle but I have....concerns.
spot on! Some pretty fucked up physics as much as I can tell (being a social science guy, so not the most credible to judge). Would love to hear an expert saying his part
I'm not convinced the Unsullied attack shown at first really happened. It may've been an illustration of what Tyrion was explaining. though that was unclear. More likely they attacked as cover for Greyworm's infiltration team. Though still... it was a really sloppy assault.
In the books the castle is built inside a mountain, and what you saw there is called "we don't want to spend money on a two min scene"
I dident remember that
Fun fact: Stannis' forces did some of what you advised in Blackwater. He used a sword while scaling the walls, and his battering ram was a ram used by some guys using an overturned boat as cover.
Yep, and they still got crushed :(
And there are soldiers right in front of the gate(tyrion even gives his pep talk there, if i remember correctly). Until they use the tunnels to take them from the rear.(funnily enough it's also the mud gate stannis was ramming)
4cMaiden not really if tywin didn't bring Tyrell reinforcements Stannis would have won
If Stannis didn't kill his brother in the first place, the Tyrells would have fought on the Baratheon's side.
He had it comming!
+4cMaiden
The Tyrells would still have killed him anyways if Stannis didn't move against his brother. In fact, it was Tyrell bannerman Randyll Tarly that convinced Renly to kill Stannis in the books. Randyll told Renly that he has to kill Stannis quickly before fighting the Lannisters because Stannis will be a threat to his claim, no matter what Stannis says or does.
The biggest issue I had, with that episode, was the taking of High Garden. That place is described as a fortress with supplies that could last a siege for years. Not to mention how Euron was able to travel so fast in such a short amount of time. He went from attacking Yara in the east, back to Kings Landing then headed West around the entire continent in that short of a time to Casterly Rock. HBO is really getting sloppy in their writing.
Well, those are some fast ships!
Its not that people are traveling quickly, its that more time is passing. They are simply skipping time a lot more and jumping from people being in one place to being at their destination because the show has less time to show a lot happening. But it still takes the same amount of time to get from one place to another. Perhaps at these moments they should be putting *2 weeks later* or something to help people better understand this, but there you go.
I just assumed that Eurons forces where divided, so that one group followed Euron and the other one lead by, I don't know maybe a general or something, attacked the unsullied.
That would make some sense at least..
I first thought that too, but Eurons flagship can be seen at both locations.
There is just too much deus ex machina happening all over the place. Thats what happens when the show doesn't have the guidance of the books to follow.
I think the ladders were a sign that the Unsullied lack experience with Siege Warfare. No Engineers.
Of course they aren't good a sieges.
They were new to it.
Which is why they are only good at fighting open field but if the gates are opened them sure they can fight in sieges but not when they don't have good siege weapons.
I feel these being nickpicked by Snapjelly are so annoying, cuz it goes to show he hasnt taken any info or had watched the tv show.
The unsullied has no archers or horses nor any siege engineering experienced except only using ladders.
@@koreancowboy42 So, did Daenerys not have any allies who could provide such experienced troops, or who could provide advisors at least?
Well, the Unsullied was led by Greyworm. Greyworm is a fighter, a soldier to precise. He is not a battle commander. You can compare this to the Battle of Blackwater. Stannis used all the tactics you mentioned because he was a seasoned war commander. Greyworm simply dont have enough knowledge and experience on laying siege on castles.
He was trained by Jorah and maybe Daario in the show.
No the problem is that GRRM wrote the battle of blackwater and D&D the siege of castely rock. You can see the diffrence
@@petroslouvris4325 Clear difference. These two don't know what they're doing when it comes to battles. What's worse is they could've just read a few books to create a good battle or just hire a person who knows about this
@Fabian Kirchgessner I would've preferred if they didn't bother showing highgarden. Literally no siege or nothing but dead bodies and Lannister soldiers....
Lol the tiny steps march 😂 i was thinking the same thing
I've found out that if you want to stay in a tight formation, your steps have to be quite small. Otherwise you will just step on each other's heels
@Lazy Veteran somewhat it depends.
Elijah Nell
....what? How did you “find” that out?
Literally go watch military drill videos right now, proves you wrong
@@ellieliebefrei3862 also tight formations don't specifically have to take small steps all soldiers back then would have to be trained to march the same pace and long steps.
The "impregnable" gate had no portcullis an important part of defence because they are easy to drop but tak time to pull up. Most real castle gates have multiple gates an portcullises to hold you up and trap you where all sorts of unpleasant things can be poured and dropped on you. Instead the impregnable gate has a single barn door bar which is not even locked down. They did not need a secret passage just something to poke through the crack and lever up that bar on the door. We should of had nice scenes where all the unsullied crowding around the gates get red hot sand poured on them. You think they would of bothered digging a ditch for a counter weighted draw bridge as well. Multiple ditches to make it harder to just march up to the wall like that. The walls should also have hoardings or matriculations.
I don't know if this answered anything but Stephen Biesty explained in one of his artbooks on castles that only very daring or foolish troops climbed the ladder. Perhaps this was to show the Unsullie were fearless?
The simple explanation is given later in the show:
Casterly Rock was left severely undermanned because Jaime took near everyone with him to sack Highgarden.
It was, essentially, a decoy and the soldiers there were, probably, expendable. Who would have left good soldiers there to die, if they were needed elsewhere.
The soldiers probably were the least able to fight and maybe the ones could not keep up with a long and fast march.
I would bet there were less than a thousand men in Casterly Rock, maybe 500.
Enough to keep the castle and make difficult to take the castle for the Unsullied.
The problem with not enough men is you need to get the spread very thin.
So the commander probably was forced to take every available man to the walls and just keep a couple of dudes at the door.
They were probably defending with cooks and maintenance guys.
The big problem with the scene is Casterly Rock should be as much impregnable as The Eyre or The Bloody Gates.
The castle should be on a cliff 1.5 miles high, with a very narrow passage to walk to get to the door of the castle. And practically the only way to take it is with dragons or subterfuge like Lann the Smart did.
Great explanarion, Wasn't it lann the clever btw?
Given how in the real world the Ottomans failed miserably to take Rhodes with 70,000 man army against a defense force of 2,500, the Ottomans suffering between 9,000 and 15,000 casualties with the defense suffering just a few, then 500 should be an adequate defense force for an impregnable stronghold. Little more than 350 men would have been the equivalent defense force to face the Unsullied if the defense had the same ratio to attackers as the Siege of Rhodes in 1480AD.
I would be hilarious to see a Game of Thrones war council with someone like you trolling the main cast the whole time. :D
You should do a best fights in GoT from a technical perspective. Not a "look at this awesome fight!" but more of a "this guy actually knows how to parry with a sword!"
Well, the ladders seem to be bamboos. Likely for being a cheaper prob, but would lean to the explanation coming from the east with them.
Build siege tower from what? Spending several days on it? They needed fast attack and there are shown no forrests around the Casterly Rock.
Could've brought parts with them on the ships and assembled them later on land
Danil that bothered me aswell tbh... u can just break down a siegetower and buidl it back up on land - wouldnt cost days (like when builidng it up from scratch) but hours and would make A LOT of sence....
You're not gonna put together a siege tower right in front of an enemy castle. Some tacticians would see that as an opportunity to rout the enemy or deal a lot of damage to the army's core. Also siege weapons are heavy, to be putting that on a ship AND carry 8,000 unsullied as well as supplies necessary for the battle is a bit much. Especially when the Ironborn fleet was destroyed.
That would still take hours.
I didn't you guys where siege tower experts
For some reason, some people don't seem to understand that, the first assault on the castle in the episode is an illustration to go with what Tyrion is saying. Just wanted to point that out.
This whole plan was shit in a first place, lannisters have castle, at least 2000 more men and better armor, meanwhile unsullied have no bows, no siedge equipment and no experience with sieges.
They should have used the secret tunel in night, hide their main force, open gates and then attack. And there wouldnt be needed any siege
Pitviper2015 Yeah, but im not talking about jaimes plan, but about tyrions. He did not know that and jaime left for reach and if jaime didnt and had all those men manning his castle like tyrion expected, logic tells u that unsullied wouldnt be able to take the casterly rock since they have 0 experience with western sieges, dont have bows and siege equipment, they are outnumbered and have worse equipment in general. Tyrions strategy is absolute bullshit
Radovan Toth the frontal assault was needed to distract the Lannisters. A single spy can get past the gaurd unnoticed, but to open the gate ten men were needed
Snap, my man, you literally know 100000000000000% more about medieval battle tactics than the guys who write this show !!! Trying to apply logic to why anyone in Thrones does, well anything really, is a losing battle.
3:43 *Fewer casualties
Cheers to the one true king!
rasgul, I am right. Fewer is used for anything that is countable, not just things that have been counted. You can count casualties and therefore would use fewer. You cannot count something like water and would therefore use less (however if you were talking about "pints of water" you would say fewer as that it countable). Try applying a tiny bit of logical thought before going off on one dude.
Rasgul, That's not how it works. It's about whether it is hypothetically countable, not whether it has literally been counted.
rasgul, Jesus Christ just google it and you'll see that I am right
It isn't about whether one can literally count it, it is about whether it can be measured in units. There is nothing subjective. Are you seriously saying that it would be "less" before the battle but "fewer" after?
Here's my review for this episode. First this wasn't a siege. A siege implies they set up camp and began and tried anything other than just storming the walls.
Second, well yeah that's it really it's impractical as hell and when the Lannisters saw there were no siege engines they really should have noticed something was up.
i think your missing one point,,that is that there was a black friday sale on ladders
3:00 how do you transport a siege tower across the water?
in pieces.
Redknight li You moron historically siege towers were built on site of the siege.
+Jaqen H'ghar Ooops
One problem I had with the siege is that Greyworm and the others only open ONE gate and that allows them to take the entire castle. If you look at it in certain shots it shows that Casterly Rock is a concentric castle, which means it has an outer wall AND an inner wall, plus it looks like there is a central Keep of some kind.
Do they really expect us to believe that Greyworm and gang opened the gates to two walls and the keep without getting spotted? There should be a ton of guys watching the gates, no one sounded the alarm?
Then again I'm not sure If it even shows them having taken anything besides the outer wall, did they?
The thing that always confuses me is that they never used short swords ever it’s just strange.
I agree, the romans scraped the xiphos for the shorter gladius and the rest is history
My man. You're a really likeable guy. Sub earned my friend.
It does appear that Westeros' offensive siege craft have not kept up with their defensive technology.
This could be because of the presence of magic. Until ~150 years before the books, magic was present, and there was really no need to develop offensive technology.
Why didn't they develop it since then, you ask? I don't know, but perhaps it is because of the Maesters' approach to knowledge. They seem to value keeping it safe, not improving upon it, and they seem to have a monopoly on knowledge in the 7 Kingdoms.
.... and what kind of magic would that be?
Dragons.
*cough* Harrenhall *cough*
3:00 Yes but how do you take a tower into small ships ?
Or you build it on the spot ? With what trees ? There is NONE.
Weren't siege towers historically used as elevated platforms, for archers to shoot down on the wall... & not used to land troops on the wall?
why did they rush forward to the wall? why not continue walking in their shieldbox formation until they were right next to the wall, rushing makes them vulnerable as theyre no longer defended by the shields of their friends.
It puts the ladders up faster, as soon as 1 unsullied makes it up the wall the archers probably will stop fireing so rushing forward with a handfull of unsullied could give the bulk of the army a safer passage. their shields arn't that big after all.
that would be my guess
Hey jelly where do you buy your swords?
Did that scene with the ladders actually happen? Or was that just Tyrion describing what would happen
About the marching of the lanister army. It was used when approaching enemy as a tool to appear to be superior and larger in sice and lower morale of the enemy units by doing this. Party used the same way as the warcry.
True, the Unsullied have no archers, but what about taking the spears from some of the men in the rear ranks and throwing them? They certainly look light enough. That would at least reduce the number of archers, and give the front ranks a better chance to get to the top of the wall. And as far as disarming the rear rank men? As they advance, they can pick up spears from the dead and wounded, if not actually recovering their original spear from the dead or wounded archers.
Regarding the Lannister troops that massed near the gate but not at it, Jamie explain to Olenna later that only a token force remained at Castily Rock, so those troops would likely be the reserves stationed where they could rapidly move to several different vulnerable locations rather than just guard one. Besides, in the end Jamie admits they were willing to sacrifice all of the troops remaining at Castily Rock so they could take Highgarden and get the Tyrell's gold.
I heard that the battle at Casterly Rock didn't actually happen, or at least the attack on the walls. It was more of an illusion to show what would happen if such an attack took place. However I could be wrong about that.
I hope that's the case!
That's correct, it was Tyrion explaining what would have to happen if there was not an easier way to take the castle.
Firelord5151 didn't olena and jaime say that casterly rock was taken? Jamie said it wasn't worth much anymore
Yes, but what I meant was that the attack on the front walls never took place. The castle was indeed taken, but it was taken when Greyworm entered through the sewers with a small force and opened the gates for the rest of the Unsullied to enter, so as not to waste countless lives.
Nope, it happened.
I died when you said you hope they didn't march their way to High Garden😂😂😂
Could you do a video about the device used to kill the dragons? It's called both a scorpion and a ballista and even that is driving me crazy! But I'm interested in all the rest, when were devices like that invented, how nimble they are, what were they used for in real life and so on. Pretty please!
They are marching that way because its a strategy. The want to make the defenders think that this is just a parade and they are just passing trough there :D
Also it does not take long to build a siege tower, the crusaders did it overnight at the siege of Jerusalem.
Maybe the shield bash hits the throat. It could break the larynx. That should stop the Lennister guard. And if we look closer, his head flopping around. So if you hit the chin in the right angle its quite easy to break a human's neck. I think one of those two examples are reasonable
How exactly do you think they would get seize towers there?
by taking the parts with you on the ships and assembeling them before the siege, like people Always did ;)
Hmm in my understanding there was no ladder-approach but a sewer penetration to infiltrate and open the gate to this rock.
Maybe having a higher view point provides the archers with a better range/aim? Also, maybe it's easier to grab the ladders and push them down this way?
Actually, Stannis' army uses _HIS_ upside-down rowboats to cover themselves from archers in the Battle of Blackwater (Bay). So it's not like it's an unknown tactic to either G.R.R. Martin or to 'Westerosians', but it's within the realm of possibilities that it's unknown to these foreign soldiers...
Building a siege tower takes a hell of a long time and they thought they had surprise on their side. Swift enough that any nearby field army isn't in time to relieve the besieged.
But a siege tower isn't typically used like you see in the Total War series or in LOTR. Almost allways it was used to support ladder assaults by placing archers on a platform as high or higher than the archers on the walls, picking them off or surpressing them. This way the troops on the ladders could get up the walls in relative safety. Its not a troop transport via gangplank, so rather useless for this army because like you said the unsullied didn't have any archers to speak off. Plus the assault on the walls was a diversion for the infiltration via secret passage.
The unsullied meeting this random force of Lannister forces once inside the castle does beg the question how Greyworm didn't encounter those forces on his way to the gate, is similar to another question I have concerning the small Lannister force which rushed the gold to King's Landing. How could that small force get the gold there without encountering the huge force of Dothraki headed the opposite way? Unless they took another road, which would seems unlikely. How many main roads does Westeros have going east and west?
Those Dothraki had to spend days, if not weeks crossing Westeros, even though the book made it appear instant. There is no way the Lannisters left that much earlier not to encounter the huge horde. Then we see Tyrion show up at the battlefield. Did Dany give him a ride on her dragon?
Even less believable was that Jaime received word that the gold was safely in King's Landing. I love the way those ravens are as fast as email. They dart around that continent as if it were the size of Rhode Island or they were wearing Little Finger's jet pack.
I can't see how Randyll Tarly could have gotten word from his soldiers so quickly, but that happens all the time in Game Of Thrones. Don't get me wrong, the show is entertaining as hell and I love watching it more than any other show on television, but the writing has gotten very sloppy since they ran out of source material. Martin could have never penned this crap they're turning out here late in the story. Too bad Martin writes so slowly, but I guess that's why his stories work out the details that Dan and Dave tend to ignore.
How much time would need Greyworm to inform Daenerys about what was happening in Casterly Rock?
Days at least. A raven, if they had one, would need at least three days to get from Casterly Rock to Dragonstone.
A week is much more probable.
If we suppose the battle and the sack of Highgarden happen at the same time (because word of both arrives at the same time), Dany was at least three days, more probably, week later.
She started to ferry (under Drogon cover, for sure) the Dothrakis to the mainland immediately. Then, after she assembled a force large enough, she head to intercept the Lannisters.
This should give the Lannister and the Tarly a week, maybe ten days, to move the gold (and only that) to King's Landing.
I would have taken hundred of the most trustworthy men, on horse, and four wagons (one for the gold and the others empty as backups) and sent them to King's Landing as fast as they could.
Tarly told the column is stretched very thin, and the tail could not be able to support them if they were ambushed.
So they had, probably, sent the gold first and then the food up to the road to King's Landing, as fast as they could.
They probably just run up and down the road to check the presence of enemies, but could not scout properly.
In my opinion, the battle is not so far from King's Landing.In fact Bronn tell Jaime to leave and run. And this, in my opinion, imply they are a day, maybe two, from King's Landing. For a foot soldier. 60 KM at most.
Mirco Romanato since the Dothraki army was coming from the east, it would seem unlikely that the train with the gold would not encounter them, unless you suggest that Dany was so stupid as to not be following the same road the Lannister army was using to get to King's Landing? Dragonstone is east of KL, meaning they had to pass by KL to get to where the Lannister army was traveling. If I were sending my army west to intercept another army traveling east towards KL, I would certainly have my army follow the same road.
There is really only one main road (one fit to march a large army on) from Highgarden to KL and that is Roseroad. There is a very bad continuity issue if the Lannister army is only a day away from KL. That would put them passing through the Kingswood and based on the scenery where they were attacked, it was anything but a forest. In fact, it looked like a midwestern North American desert region. I believe the showrunners wanted it to have an old style western appearance with the Dothraki serving as stampeding indians, but such a setting would place them still far from KL.
It would certainly take the Dothraki army a few days to cross the land with all of those horses to rest and feed, so I can't see how the gold train left and completed the trip before Dany's army was enroute, even if they were only a day away (which they were not, based on the scenery). Obviously, for this show purpose, the showrunners made Dany a poor enough general NOT to follow the same road to KL or knew that the main bulk of audiences don't pay enough attention to make it matter. I figure it's the latter. This is one of the many compromises made by the show in order to make their story come to desired conclusions.
My point, is that in real world, this would be highly unlikely. That gold would have never made it to KL, unless the Dothraki horde only took an afternoon to reach and intercept the Lannister army and took a very different path west. If they took a completely different path (which would have to be off-road) how would they know the precise point to intercept the Lannister army? If they were traveling, let's say NW, they could miss the Lannister army by days. Doesn't make sense. You would find the road leading from KL to Highgarden and follow it until you meet the opposing arm, especially when there is only one road an army could realistically travel on.
This is just one of many compromises the showrunners have made in the story since they ran out of source material. Martin was always far more meticulous about the details. The show has definitely taken a more one dimensional story arc since the source material was used up.
The showrunners kind of just spun their wheels, so to speak, around season 4 and 5, hence why we got horrible storylines, like Dorne and the Sand Snakes, and Arya and the Waif; which made little sense and did nothing to advance the main plot. I believe they were hoping Martin would finish the next installment by then, as the Winds Of Winter was expected out in 2014. Unfortunately, he still hasn't finished that installment.
Now that so much time has been wasted with stories which did not really advance the main plot, they are making a mad dash to the finish which is why scene like this become so disjointed. I still enjoy watching the show, since the acting, effects, soundtrack and cinematography are phenomenal and they promise to at least have the same ending as Martin envisioned. Otherwise, I can't pay too close attention to the story and the logistics within or the whole thing can become rather comical at times.
Rewatched
Tarly father say they must have all the wagon past the Blackwater Rush before night because, if the head of the column is ambushed, the tail could not reinforce it in time.
They are in King's Landing, but they must have marched very fast, and the column is very stretched; so much the tail could not reinforce the head in a short amount of time.
The possibilities are two:
1) Daenerys intercepted the head after Tarly got news and crushed it so fast news of the battle didn't arrive in time
2) Daenerys is coming from South (the direction of the carts is King's Landing - east - they are on the right side of the Blackwater river and Daenerys come from south).
The second is interesting, because they have a river between themselves and the head of the colum. It would be difficult for the Dothraki to battle north of the river, then cross the river and then attack from south.
Daenerys dropped the Dothrakis south of Dragonstone and rode with them (and Drogon) to intercept the column. Intercepting them "near" King's Landing
they came to casterly rock by ship, seage towers are a pain in the ass to build and transport, ladders could be transported on the ship or built quickly, this was sopose to be a surprise attack. they did not have time to build towers.
But did the Unsullied really have any shortswords? All I see is spears and shields, and they definitely didn't have any bows, ergo _fewer_ weapons.
yea take a close look, they carry small, golden, dagger like weapons on their side
"That's what I do....... I shit on things you love" lmao great intro bro! XD lol
The unsullied didnt charge the walls, it was just a visual representation of what could have happened.
to be fair, they never showed anny seige engeneer in the unsullied army.
Why the archer would cover them self and the unsullied DONT HAVE ANY ARCHER ? Also, the gates of casterly rock are inpregnuble, visenya ( or rheanys i dont remember) when she saw the castle she was glad that loran bend the knee because even dragonfire could not breach the castle...i hate the people who criticize this sezson just to criticize..
By less weapons he's saying they don't have rocks to throw at people or bows or crossbows as well as having larger shields and probably better steel.
Weirdly enough, despite the slaver saying they were trained in all kinds of weapons, they never seem to use, or even carry, anything but their spears.
Which for a professional army like the unsullied really is weird in itself.
As for the siege tower: It seems to be a hasty executed plan altogether. Which it is not, considering the hidden entrance, but the lannisters don't know that.
The unsullied distract the defenders with their storm to the walls, so grey worm could open the main gates.
They weren't planning on actually succeed with the ladders, i think.
But you are of course right, that they could have done the attack in a better way.
10:00 min:
"They are outnumbered - has less armoured and fewer weapons."
I think Tyrion means this:
"They are outnumbered - has less armoured [men] and fewer weapons [men, who wielding weapons, compared to the Unsullied]."
Every men wield a weapon, but one force A got f.e. 2000 swords (wielding men) and the other force B got 500 swords (wielding men), so that force B has "fewer weapons" than force A.
They didn't need all the siege equipment. They were obviously just keeping them occupied while their buddies snuck in and opened the gate.
I don't know about siege towers. Even if you could bring one on a ship, you'd still have to drag it up the cliff side. Boat cover argument is valid. Yes, outnumbered and greater weapons is essentially the same thing.
Raptor302
Certain ships would bring pieces of the tower, then they'd put the tower together when they're ready to use it.
Interesting stuff that in the books unsolied used ship to make protection from archers, when they take Mierrin.
ofc they have more weapons, they did take their lessons from previous vids and filled their armory with giant sized scythes in case they get some as reinforcements.
just because the humans cant use em, doesnt mean they dont have more weapons.
Dude the no defence at the gate was the whole point of the episode, it was a trap. Greyworm mentions it afterwards.
I mean to be fair it was a token force, 2 at the gate is still a little ridiculous because that’s when they should’ve realized they weren’t facing the real army but the whole thing was intentional to trap the bulk of the targareyan army in the castle
I think "fewer weapons" meant fewer soldiers.
Hey Snaps, good Video, but arent you afraid of copyright strikes ?
PS: maybe Grey Worm isnt the greates guy to put in charge of a Siege since hes a Soldier and not a Tatcitian .-.
For some reason the Unsullied are very keen on fight close quarters with a spear.
small request id like to have your opinion on greatswords and there viabillity could be in a video or a lectured answer i love what your doing keep it going ;)
A spear and shield in narrow space was the most lethal combination in all of history especially against a sword tactic man .... Some your comments I agree with but others I question highly
could you do some of the battles in lord of the rings at some point?
Did you not see the boats??? and siege towers are extremely heavy. Steel arrows can easily pierce through wood.
you don't take siege towers with you when you're about to besiege a castle, you make them on the spot.
also steel arrows piercing wood?? if that's true then how would shields work?
and even if it was true you could just use thicker boards
Next battles
The long night
Gates of Kings landing.
Also for the unsullied to make siege towers the battle doesn't show any trees. And the Greyjoy fleet was coming up behind them to ambush them and if they intend to prolong a siege they would've lost more men either way.
I gotta say movies and tv shows leaves alot of things from the books.
My biggest for the while now since the episode was the lack of siege weapons.
The unsullied sailed there and didn’t want to waste time building a tower
The reason you don't see that many people at the gate and around and such is explained in the episode. The lannisters moved their 10k army away to attack Highgarden and left behind a VERY small garrison, emptied the castle of all its food and had a large navy force hidden all as part of a trap to prevent the Unsullied from being able to hold the castle for long and to destroy their navy so they would have to literally walk away. It was actually a rather smart plan.
That still doesn't explain why all of those Lannister soldiers were just standing and fucking around in the castle, instead of protecting the main gate.
They simply weren't positioned on the main gate, but instead on the walls that we see the ladders attacking. The Lannister soldiers see the Unsullied have NO siege equipment other than ladders, seemingly all the ladders attack one section of the wall. So the Lannister soldiers position the bulk of their forces on the specific section of the wall to counter the ladders. Then the Unsullied without ladders run over to the gate and wait for it to open. The Lannisters can't simply send a bunch of people to the gate (They don't have a lot of people) and they still don't see any siege equipment like a battering ram so they most likely just have the people in the towers/on top of the walks near the gate shoot arrows at the Unsullied and in general be somewhat confused as to what the Unsullied were doing. Why would they have a bunch of soldiers on the inside of a gate that they didn't think would be opened from the outside? I think the real issue is that we aren't given specific numbers of the Lannister soldiers let inside, I think if they said they left behind only 100 men in Casterly Rock or something a lot of these things would be cleared up.
Ximen because there was nothing to protect you moron. Dont you even watch the show? This was just a suicide mission. The lannisters gave up casterly rock because it had nit strategical use anymore
The Jokenyu Yes, but I gotta ask you the same question, do you even watch the show? Even if it was a suicide mission, you still want to fight for your life. Look at 8:44, if they had been protecting the gate, the Unsullied wouldn't have been able to open it. So the Unsullied would get slaughtered trying to climb those ladders
vidarDJ16starkill I don't care how many soldiers the Lannister had inside the castle. There were obviosuly enough soldiers to protect the walls, as you could the unsullied got slaughtered when they tried to climb those ladders. So it still doesn't explain why those Lannister soldiers at 8:44 were fucking around in the streets doing nothing
I think tyrion meant 10 000 lannisters = 10 000 swords, 5 000 unsullied = 5 000 spears. (i just made up those numbers please dont kill me)
the unsulead were trained as household gards and a defense angansed raiders, not siege warfare. without a westrose commander leading them they would be unprepared for a siege.
I have never really seen a medieval siege portrayed correctly in a Movie or tv show. The Russel Crow Robin Hood movie came closest as it was a multi staged assault and they tried to weaken the gates with fire before trying to batter it down, but it was still crap.
Can we talk about how boned grey worm would have been if the lannisters actually had been home
Good.
Now please review the sparring match b/w Arya and Brienne
And the dragon convoy attack of 7x4.
maybe he said "fewer weapons" because they don't have any bows?
You sir. Are someone I would enjoy talking with everyday. Here is my subscription.
the ppl who made the show has no clue how warfare in that era should be
My friend, a knight, can chat about this like hours. In single movie he can find so many mistakes that I am asking why do not they work with some specialist like you or my friend.
i feel bad for the unsullied tho…. what kind of stupid comander would attack the walls before the infiltrating forces are attacking.
it's like they had some random dude who had no clue what he was talking about regarding war make all the war scenes
I mean... the Unsullied rushed the walls as a distraction force, for Grey Worm and the other Officers can sneak through.
It's still a risky move because that means some of the men will be killed and if you think about it the unsullied are a rather small force compared to other armies
So sneaking in at night seems to be safer for the men
@@agentspaniel4428 What? A small force compared to other armies? There's 12,000-15,000 of them. And at the beginning, of those in the army, 8,000 were "Blooded Unsullied" (Blooded= fresh from battle).
Umm around 100,000 dothraki and plenty of dead men not too mention what all of that combined is compared to the unsullied
But regardless the unsullied are few but they are strong like the 300
The battle did seem incredibly unrealistic. I chalked that up to lack of budget and time willing to flesh out what should have been an amazing battle, just like what they did with Highgarden. The severe lack of soldier on soldier combat in strategic areas (the main gate for example) almost implies that Casterly Rock was defended by an almost skeleton garrison. Also claiming that this army was the same one built by Tyrion's father, Tywin Lannister, and yet the army is so incompetent that they leave TWO dudes defending the main gate is, in my honest opinion, insulting to Tywin Lannister.
That whinging aside, my greatest pet peeve is the absolute lack of decorum for some of the interiors of Casterly Rock. One would think that the richest region in Westeros, yes I am aware that Casterly Rock's main gold mine has run out, would still resemble being somewhat wealthy and opulent. What we see looks vacant and depressing.
movie/battles are almost always good quality bs. HBO should hire TOTAL WAR players to do the writing, atleast when it comes to screaming unarmored light cavalry and spearmen with low missile block chance attacking a lannister army built on very heavy mele infantry or even boltons army with its pike phalanx; Total war players can provide better insights into it all. ya'll win with dragons wild fire and all, but atleast once win the traditional way, flanking and hammer and anvil.
Completely agree
Every Unsullied has a shortsword, but these are not Unsullied.
They sailed to casterly rock so theres no way to bring a seige tower on a row boat or ship bro
Remember the real lanister army went away so who are left can do anything
you didn't really understand what jamie did at this battle .. :D he left casterly rock empty so that he can lock unsullied there without casualties
I know that, doesn't make their battle tactics any better
@SnapJelly So what would you do?
" lock unsullied there without casualties"
Do you mean without unsuiled casualties? (othervise you comment doesn't make sense.)
anakon4 use actuall artillery and which moron litteraly puts only archers on the wall and if you know they r going to come from sea its quite obvious they won't have any siege towers ready they might build them on land but as we saw the archers had enough range to start shooting from the second they started getting closer so it was quite obvious that they would moronically rush in with ladders so yeah it's much easier to just to have infantry on the wall and why wasn't anyone protecting the bloody gate if the Lannister were smart they would have like 500 people defend the gate not going to make it a big number because they said in the episode that there were about 2000 man or just put pikes at the gate the unsullied have no archers so yeah isn't it fun to attack pikes from one side without any archers and in an enclosed are no flanking so they would have to rush the pikes and catapults would have killed quite a lot of people because of how clumped up the unsullied were and why not dig a moat have oil ready at the gate to pour it down at the enemy and just wait out until the greyjoys get there and just surround the unsullied and of how important of a castle it was I don't think they would have any guards or soldiers inside the keep so yeah greyworm and those 10 pips would easily get killed so yeahhhh
would towers be transportable by the ships that the unsullied were using though?
I didn't see any trees :/ and they planned on using the ships again so dismantling them wasn't really an option
Lucas Aires yeah like the ladders were only a distraction anyway but if the lanisters are very sly they'd burn surrounding forests to limit what the besiegers can build
Siege towers are hard to make and the unsullied are bred for war not for making siege towers.
Your critiquing a show that displays the act of shoving a sword through plate armor on multiple occasions. This show isn’t very accurate to begin with lol. But yeah you got valid points, I just think a siege tower would require a lot of wood and time to build. Plus, are they gonna bring it in pieces on a boat and put it together on sight? That would take time and give the enemy longer to prepare.
What the fuck, the main 'impregnable' gate of Casterly Rock is just a single layer iron door with a wooden bar? They could have rammed it using a dragon or Grey Worm's head. It doesn't even have a portcullis.
hei the unsullied dont have siege tower obiously and if they built it. it would take days and the lannister could sent backup and attack them from behind and completely surround them plus the euron greyjoy burn their fleet so they have no escape and die fighting.but the main reason why they didn't use the siege towers is because they planned to open the gate from within so there is no need to risk the lannister sent backup to castely rock.Jaime already know that tyrion was going to attack castely rock and tyrion knew that too so they didn't take that risk.The gate are impregnable it cant be destroyed not for a long time they need all the men on the wall and if the gates is all most breach they could just send men to the gate. there are 2 watching if the gate are almost breach or not and they dont have enough men to man the wall and guard the gate remember Jaime leave the castle almost defendsless on purpose so they could attack highgarden and take all the food and gold so they can gain support of the iron bank and buy mercenarys plus the targaryen will have no food so win win and they clear out the food storage in castely rock so they didn't lose the castle only 1000 or 2000 troops and they probably kill 1000 or 2000 unsullied too because they have archers and the wall advantage they fight pretty good too so its a fair trade on kills.That is my teori please tell me if u disagree in the comment i love a good debate
A siege tower takes 1 day to build.
Wow, ur channel is now among my favourite.
The Unsullied teleported although there is a cliff
as casterly rock is on a big, well, rock, the bowman will need to shoot their arrows downwards, the step up provides compensation for this change in angle.
well... no
that's what hoardings and machicolations are for
Hey handsome! I have a request! I want to see you do a review of the Arya/Brienne duel from GoT season 7 episode 4. It was a great battle but I have....concerns.
spot on! Some pretty fucked up physics as much as I can tell (being a social science guy, so not the most credible to judge). Would love to hear an expert saying his part
Ilija Stojanovic I like this guy, and I like his videos. But he is hardly an expert
Off topic, but I love your user name! I'm currently finishing A Memory of Light.
They need to get the siege tower on a ship and it would probably slow them down
They could had dismantled a ship and built a siege tower with the wood, but it would need time and skilled craftsmen.
I know im late, but your hair is fabulous!
I'm not convinced the Unsullied attack shown at first really happened. It may've been an illustration of what Tyrion was explaining. though that was unclear. More likely they attacked as cover for Greyworm's infiltration team. Though still... it was a really sloppy assault.
TheCsel it actually did happen u can see arrows on their shields