Arya Stark vs Brienne of Tarth | Game of Thrones episode 7x4 Fight Review (Needle vs Longsword)
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Hey guys, SnapJelly here and because you guys asked for it, here it is. The review of Arya Stark with needle vs Brienne of Tarth with a longsword in season 7 episode 4 of Game of Thrones
GoT has some severe issues when it comes to presentation, especially in fight scenes
We suppose to believe that Jamie was a top tier fighter, yet his scenes were rubbish.We suppose to believe that Jon is a decent fighter, yet he looks like he' ll trip over his own foot.
We suppose to believe that Brienne is a skilled fighter, yet she is moving like lumbering golem with no sense of balance.
I wouldn't be impressed by these fights, when I was nine.
Brienne had a longer sword, a longer arm, and is an experienced fighter. She could have just kept Arya at a fair distance, and Arya couldn't even have get close enough. Instead, she decided to attack first, block Arya's attacks on her armor, and offer Arya opportunities to get close enough to attack. My conslusion: Brienne was just going easy on her. Arya is just a kid, and a Lady. This was just a practice fight.
My conclusion: The writers suck
We saw Jorah struggle against a water dancer in the fighting pits, seems Westerosi Knights like Jorah and Brienne struggle against their style and movement
Her training as a water dance was breaf. There's no way she could have master itby herself in all this short time without the help of a mentor.
I honestly doubt the writers think it through that much
I don't think the writers thought it that through either. That said, many times in GoT we can see actors have been asked to play in a way, with subtle details, which happened to be meaningful later.
That said, it is worth pointing out that Arya is not supposed to be a great fighter. She is supposed to be smart, and take the battles that she can win. It is even what she advices to Podrick right at the beginning of this sequence.
The bottomline being that... I want to believe ! :D
their fight was dumb. arya didn't finish training.
RedTeamReview true
Says who!? You? Also, time is confusing and more magical then the damn resurrections and dragons... so I think you may be underestimating what she did endure. But based on what we've seen... okay... you're right... Congrats...
CryingBuddha
Based on the fact that Brienne's been fighting her whole life and Arya spent maybe half a year on Braavos. That's not the point anyway. Arya's character doesn't involve being a badass ninja. Her whole character is that of a survivor, not a killing machine. The showrunners removed any kind of metaphorical subtlety and just made her into a generic action hero badass.
Kristjan Kangro yea they really ruined the character for me
@Brythonic oh fuck off. The fight is bad, but not beacause of the amount of X chromosomes
10:53 Looking closely at that sword, that is not a triangle, that is a VERY deep hollow grind. Making a blade that way would give it the extra strength from having a thick center ridge, but still permit a fairly flat edge. Given how narrow it is, it still wouldn't be a very good design for a sword given that it wouldn't be able to be sharpened for very long. Perhaps though, John Snow intended it to be a trainer sword for Arya while she was yet small, so it wouldn't need to be kept sharp for more than a few years. That logic would be sound.
No Jon gave her the sword
You just don't use/offer a sharp sword as a training sword. Never. Ever. Bad idea. Don't do that. Unless you hate that person. Maybe Jon wanted Arya dead, or with fewer fingers.
+ptitnhane
Perhaps 'trainer' sword was the wrong choice of word. I did not mean the (usually wooden) sword one uses while training in class with a teacher and sparing partners (and which she should have been using when sparring with Brienne). Arya used a wooden 'training' sword when learning her water dance despite her owning Needle. I mean 'trainer' sword in the same way one might refer to a trainer motorcycle, when one gets a small, not very powerful bike first, then moves on to something bigger when their skills are ready. It's still a real motorcycle. Arya was a child and needed a sword that could be wielded by a child, when small, which would serve her well as a real sword while she was growing up. That does not mean that it by necessity must be dull and unable to be used in self defense. That would have not been much of a gift. Jon gifting her a 'real' sword, was him conveying his trust in her that she had the maturity to carry such a thing.
so, unlike real life small ords, Needle can cut, not maiming cuts that chop off an arm, but lighter cuts that still spill blood, capable of causing pain and shock in the opponent that cause a distraction, and even lethal if they cut the throat. Am i right?
I agree, it's more of like your first "real" acoustic guitar or BMX style bike(depending on the hobby). We know it is castle forged steel so it's high a quality weapon. However it is only meant to be used by her for a few years, not that it will wear out by then, more that she will be ready to move on to a larger weapon than needle. Or perhaps even use it as a secondary or off hand weapon.
wait, parrying is easier than dodging? I've played dark souls wrong...
Can you do a review of Indigo Montoya VS Wesley (DPR)?
Who also would like that?
-oOxOo- -oOxOo- Inigo*
Yes
Schrodinger's Sword, the sword is simultaneously sharp and blunt but we don't know the sword's sharpness until it is used on screen
Hey you missed that fancy dagger flip! She drew it with her right hand and as Brienne was reaching to catch it, she immediately switched dagger to her left hand, pretty cool imo.
The point of that spar, was to demonstrate that Arya, having been trained by Syrio Forel and Faceless Men, have acquired skills that takes advantage of her size and her choice of weapon. Needle is a unique weapon in that it is a sharp stabbing weapon but has a thin tapered shaft that has some sharpness to slice and wound. While Brienne has never seen Arya fight or which style of fighting she knows, she underestimates Arya from the first swing and Arya deflects her longsword and puts herself in a position to stab Brienne's head. Next exchange Arya was able to again enter Brienne space and "tag" her arm and breastplate, indicating to Brienne that without her armor, Arya could have easily wounded her with an arm stab or side cut, which would prevent Brienne from swinging her sword with both hands.
Finally on the final exchange after Arya was knocked down by the kick, that was Brienne's only point won, using her only advantage, her mass and reach to strike Arya hard. However, Arya's experience taking beatings from the Faceless Men, she recovered quickly like a seasoned boxer. She "allowed" Brienne to knock Needle out of her hand, using Faceless Men tactics to feign weakness, when Arya clearly has another weapon to employ. As Brienne took the bait and attacked, Arya reached for the CatsPaw dagger, an even more dangerous weapon than Needle that can pierce Brienne's armor or even break her longsword with Valyrian steel. Brienne smartly reached for Arya's right hand to stop her, but Arya flipped the dagger to her strong left hand and surprised Brienne, again ending in a neck or head stabbing position before Brienne can bring her sword within a similar stabbing posture. Arya bested and beat Brienne three times within minutes.
This was not swordfighting in the real world, but with tactics and weaponry that is of that world. Arya trained as a foreign swordsman and a foreign assassin, and Brienne had no idea how to fight that speed, agility, and unorthodox moves. If you observe and take that into consideration, Arya won that duel easily, and it was not a draw. That's what freaked Sansa out, seeing how tough and deadly her little sister has become, and that originally Sansa thought Arya's kill list was a joke, but it was real, and Sansa may be on that list for being a mean big sister to Arya.
Both fighters had flaws. Brienne telegraphs her moves rather obviously, no shit Arya was gonna dodge her. But that dinky little rapier would have not been able to block any longsword attacks. One sword bash would have knocked that girl down.
a long sword really isn't that heavy, a spadroon (not a rapier) like arya's could easily block a longsword strike as long as you parry close to the guard
I find it hard to believe. There isn't a big weight difference in relative terms, but I don't think it would take a big difference when it comes to the physics of sword fighting. I imagine myself holding a smaller, lighter thrusting sword like Arya's with one hand and trying to block a good strong swing from a two handed sword, and I just can't imagine it working at all.
As SnapJelly mentions, the trick is to block extremely close to the guard so that you almost block with your hand but with enough steel between you and your opponents sword to not loose your hand. It's like Jamie blocking that one stroke with his gold hand.
well if you get hit on the gauntlet you don't all of a sudden fall to the floor do you? It would leave a light scratch and you wouldn't really notice the attack.
so why would it be different with a hit to your guard?
It didn't seem that she was blocking the attacks so much as deflecting them (or diverting them) enough for her to dodge them. Sword coming straight down on top of you? Put your sword at an angle to 'guide' their sword to one side as you move to the other, kinda flowing, like water. That's the style Arya uses. She isn't a big brute like Brienne, but she can still be a match for her by using her head and speed. She was showing Podrick that he shouldn't fight Brienne the way Brienne fights, she is too big, too strong, and too experienced to beat head on.
The whole thing I take away from this fight is that it's NOT a fight. Arya is having fun showing off to Brienne, Brienne is getting a little miffed when she kicks Arya and then gets worried thinking "Maybe I went too far"
THEEEERRRRE ya go. Thank you, I'm glad SOMEONE got it
Couple/few things...Brienne has a weak dull training sword, and at first she's telegraphing because she had no idea if Arya even knows how to fight. In these times, killing a Lady of the House in her OWN house is frowned upon/could get you killed. In fact, when Brienne spazzes out - like she always does when she's pissed - and kicked Arya, her and Pod saw their lives flash before their eyes. That was a boo-boo.
But keep in mind, we as viewers know Arya is a trained assassin. Like one of a couple on planet... and a magic one who fights blindfolded on the regular.
First sequence, Arya doesn't just parry, she tings Bri's stationary sword 3 times for fun and then waves it in her face (toying with her for going easy).
Bri takes it up a notch, this is a sparring match and Bri isn't trying to kill a tiny girl so... Arya just dances around pushes Bri's blade from about a mile outside of every swing and thrust (more toying). Could it happen in real life? Sure, if you can magically change your face and train with magic assassins - absolutely.
As supernaturally trained as Arya is, she gives a love tap to Bri's gloved hand and Arya gives her a whack for being off guard (smiling, toying).
So now Bri is getting the message. She's getting pissed. Gives it a little more effort and she gets poked in the knee (yells) - loses her cool and boots Arya across the yard. Her and Pod panic a little... then the good stuff.
Only NOW does Arya feel like she's got Bri's attention... but she's STILL going to toy with her.
She isn't disarmed as much as she decides to goad Bri now that she's heated. Arya throws the blade - pushes Bri to the side, almost smiling pulls the dagger and displays it in her right hand. Bri sees the dagger flash in the right, grabs the wrist BUT before she can grab it Arya already back flipped it to her strong hand (best part).
Point being, Arya was full on clowning Brienne (only one of them was out of breath), if it was a real death match Brienne would be poked in the throat in 1 second, a dagger in the eye and/or poisoned all at once while disguised as Walder Frey (because why not?).
LPSDVids I love you
This is exactly how I perceive this fight... great analysis
In the lead up to this Arya even says you DON'T fight someone like Brienne, which I took to mean, coming from her, that you take them out by deceit or surprise where you negate their advantages of fighting ability and size.
If she walked up to Bri out of the blue wearing the face of Renly or Stannis Barratheon, she would probably have plenty of stunned shock time to just knife her in the face. Surprise!
Pretty crazy how quickly Arya picked it up too, I mean most characters in Game of Thrones have to spend their entire lives training consistently, competing in tournaments, gaining proficiency as the years go by, but 5 hours with Syrio chasing cats and getting the shit beaten out of her while she plays the role of a blind panhandler on the streets of Bravos outdoes all of that training. I feel sorry for Arthur Dayne, wasting his time with conventional methods, imagine the swordsmen he could have become if he was a blind hobo that chased cats through king's Landing.
First time I've ever watched one of your videos, but I'm definitely coming back, for one reason specifically: You keep saying "ARYA WHY ARE YOU USING A SHARP SWORD FOR TRAINING?" And I love that! Thank you!
Fantastic analysis! I will definitely be looking up the rest of your videos!
i think brienne flinching was a GOT throw back to when a character (Yarin) in the early seasons makes a comment about how people worry more about their throats being cut than other body parts just as vulnerable.
The show is just a bunch of shit writing and fan service now. I'm just waiting for winds of winter
Here's an interesting idea for a fight review:
The fight between Jorah Mormont and Qotho (Khal Drogo's bloodrider) in S01E09.
It's interesting because it's a clash of completely different fighting styles - the more classic swordfighting of Jorah Mormont, armored and armed with a longsword vs. the completely savage and feral Dothraki, unarmored, quick, fast and using his scythe/sword that is the Arakh.
Like you I found the fight very entertaining. As it progresses, Brienne begins to take it more seriously and boots the girl in the chest for distance as you suggested.
After that it seems as if she is struggling to respond effectively without injury to her pupil.
It is more like a playful workout flowing to concern over whether she has broken anything.
I don't think either responded as they would have in a real fight.
Perhaps the next sparring match they will stop messing around.
The most cool moment of this fight is the Aria avoiding Brien's attacks. But every moment when Aria bloking or pushing away Brien's sword looks ridiculous. It's too obvious, Aria has not enough strength and the Niddle have not enought mass to do it.
Why does everyone believes, that the mass of the sword is so critical for pushing away a sword? You could do it with a freaking dagger or - as SnapJelly writes in another comment - with a good metal glove. It IS all about strength and I don't think we should try to estimate and discuss the strength of a girl who survived month? years? of wandering around in a world full of enemies while sitting in our warm, dry and comfy homes at a PC.
Ofc you could do it with a metal glove and with a dagger. I wrote "push" but it's not what i actually meant. I wanted to say "She was smaking Beirn's sword away". On 9:55 of this video SnapJelly telling exacly what i meant. Just by looking at this it doesn't feels right.
And also surviving skills is not a synonym of strength. She still a little girl with tiny arms and 35 kg body. It can be her advantage. But she can't be good at brute force for sure.
>consistently underfed on nutrient deficient diet
>walk around your entire childhood, burning calories, exposed to elements
>don't have access to a gym
>be ~100lb girl
perfect recipe for hulk strength that outdoes Brienne. It's a shame all those men at Renly's tournament didn't get the notice.
Nice video, but what you said about steel, made me think about the world wars. A Helmet does not give protection against bullets, altough it is steel, and the thicker your tank armor is, the more it protects. Is that relevant?
that sword to the upper left, what is that for kind of sword?
How come everybody that reviews this fight is ignoring the spinning and the fact that brienne is bringing her sword back as far as humanly possible the entire time she's fighting??
well the fighters in got always do that so it's kind of a given at this point...
Understandable. But I still think it should be addressed. I mean, Brienne was telegraphing her attacks pretty much the entire fight. That's isn't very good swordsman ship from a great swordsman.
Nox Xelor
She went from strategically disarming and looking for weaknesses in podrick to becoming a lumbering swinging giant. It makes no sense.
She was fighting an untrained squire at first, then she was fighting a little girl (unknowingly a trained assassin) that she underestimated. She kind of realized she underestimated her like halfway through the fight and stepped it up more and more until there was a solid fight of skill.
+ Ryan Conroy
After she stepped it up, those swings didn't look like they had any place in a sparring contest. If she had anticipated Arya's ridiculous agility, why lunge at her so awkwardly (or at all)? If she _hadn't_ anticipated it, was she trying to seriously injure the girl? Blunted blades or not, some of those blows would've broken bones and/or caused concussions if they'd connected with the tiny unarmored woman.
5:40 She struck Brienne's hand with the 'flat' of her sword, not the edge. I'm not just theorizing, step through the video and look at the angle of Arya's hand. That is not the hand position you would have if you were striking with the edge, that is a flat of the blade strike. It is just remotely possible that the fight choreographers are competent enough to have it done this way, rather than Maisie Williams screwing up. Maisie is actually quite a dancer for her age and would not likely mess that up unless it was intended.
Have you seen scholagladitoria's review of this fight? You should if you haven't.
I think the inconsistencies with Arya's sword are because of the differences between the sword in the books and what was designed for the screen. On the screen, her sword has a triangular cross section, just like that of a small sword. This is apparently not the case, in the books, as my research has found.
I have never watched GoT, but with all the hooplah over so many aspects of this fight scene, I have had to study up on many aspects of these two characters and the weapons that they use. It has been quite the interesting challenge, that the more I study this scene, the more appreciation that I have for this particular choreographed fight. I have learned a lot about the show, just from these two and am now compelled to find a way to watch this series.
Amazing the amount of criticism toward a fantasy sword fight. I actually get the impression that this series is a lot like a mature table top D&D gaming campaign, set in a particular fantasy world.
stiletti do have cutting edges: First developed in Italy, the stiletto dates from the late 15th century, and is thought to be a development of the rondel dagger or misericordia, a needle-pointed weapon with a narrow blade designed primarily for thrusting, though possessing cutting edges...
The stiletto blade was usually hammer-forged into a dense rod with a
narrow, triangular cross section, without any sharpened edges. However,
other examples of the period have emerged bearing round, square, or
diamond cross sections....
the stiletto is probably chosen as a weapon for Arya because it was a weapon preferred by assassins, something which fits the Arya's character as she is supposed to be a person without face and the weapon was chosen by assassins because it could easily penetrate contemporary armour, could be easily hidden, even embedded in a walking stick for instance and would cause very serious wounds that would bleed less but would be very deep and would not seal and therefore would be very effective for killing.
i think you should research your stuff, this is a very bad video
Let's not forget it was just a sparing match Arya was just showing off and basically saying take me sirously I do know what I'm doing. While Brianna at first didn't know what to think. After the first couple of exchanges started to respect her skill and out of mutual respect for each other and the sparing match they played along with each others moves. Arya is a trained assassin trained to kill people before they even know they have been killed your not going to see her clashing swords in a real fight. Thats why this is the first time we have seen her skill in action on this level. Also like he said in the video Brianna is a experienced fighter she wouldn't flinch like that in a real fight but since it was a sparing match she akwnolaged that if it had been a real fight with a sword that could hurt her she would of lost the hand and removed it. Thats how sparing matches go
One thing I don't understand about this fight is that one of Brienne's attacks is very downward, almost an overhead, and when Arya blocks it, instead of putting her sword at an angle at which Brienne's sword glances off towards the ground, the sword just stops as if Arya is so strong that she can take the full force of a downward slash using one hand on a small sword.
I really liked that video! I only had the feeling, you sometimes forgot, that it was supposed (!) to be a training match. I'd say, Arya did not "hit" Brienne, but merely "touch" her to indicate a hit and Brienne to stop/flinch (whatever) to accept this hit. This also somehow explains the end sequence, because you sure would stop before beheading your sparring partner. But also, it would not be uncommon even in a real duel to give your opponent time to surrender which Arya would not be the first to see as an invitation to use a hidden weapon.
But I share your opinion on the choreography, the movements and most of the other stuff, so thanks for another great video of yours :)
I disagree the whole setup was to show her mastery of combat, 9:36 she was not deflecting the striking, she was out of the way and using her sword the add momentum to the all ready missed strike to get in to a better spot for the next.
Arya doesn't hit her hand (Brienne) that hard...Just enough to Sting..maybe.
The kick was Brienne getting frustrated with the smaller Arya. A bit embarrassed I think.
Agree with 'Needle' Couldn't really block/parry a Long Sword/Broadsword wielded by someone as powerful as Brienne ...
..Saying all of that, It wasn't a "tie" Arya had her in the throat at 2:09
Ultimately, it's a TV Show and a great one at that! .........And we're not meant to delve that deeply into it, as fun as that may be 😋 👍
Why do people treat this as a real fight? It’s a sparring match
"I enjoyed it." I think everyone enjoyed it. It was a joy to behold for people who don't even know how to use swords. The actors clearly enjoyed it, too. :)
I think the sword seems smaller now because Arya herself has grown, and the sword appears smaller comparatively. Remember, it was a sword originally made for a pre-pubescent girl, who was said to have been small, even for her age. It looked tiny when Ned held it in Season 1 and it looks tiny now even in Arya's hands, because she's now an adult. Still a tiny adult, but larger than she was in Season 1.
But Jelly, the sword has 2 flat sides. Arya could have just tapped her hands. It is only a sparring match, so the flinch is kind of like a reset I guess..
Also, the ending, Arya wasn't going in for a cut, it was a thrust, and the dagger was closer to her throat than Brienne's sword was to Arya's.
When I watched this I wondered if a snapjelly video was iminent, it seemed implausible to me that arya could parry some of the heavy blows with her little toothpick neck stabber thing in the way it's choreographed, though I liked how she didn't quite turn away the blade and sort of dodged with it instead of outright stopping or parrying her blade in some bits
Has anyone missed the fact that Arya could not possibly block a strike of brienne's sword with those little arms and skinny sword of hers... absolutely ridiculous. Brienne is super strong for a woman and skilled as fuck. I liked the fact of arya is becoming a super assassin but this fight should have not happened like this...
Details of swordfighting aside, it's fun to watch. Both actresses put a lot into their facial expressions to convey the emotions of their respective characters. Brienne is sworn to protect Arya, so obviously she doesn't want to actually hurt her. Still, she wants to give Arya a realistic awareness of the limitations of her tiny size. For her part, Arya saw Brienne overcome the Hound. The friggin Hound! Even a training match with such an opponent is a great accomplishment, and to come close to a draw is a great confidence boost. Well played.:)
The music in the intro... that was magnificent!
I don't think the was a fight for Brienne specifically. I think it was a warning for Little Finger that not only is Brienne there but Arya is just as deadly.
Idk much about sparing swords, but the way Brienne was swinging that sword, if she had missed that dodge and got the sword in the face, I bet that could have seriously injured her
yea she would've been eating her own teeth
they used different sizes for that sword, the one used when she is training is smaller and she is also less tall
Here's my useless speculation that absolutely no-one asked for.
Maybe it was ok for Arya to use the needle for sparring as Brienne was wearing armor. Maybe she did hits on her instead of thrusts, because it was sparring. Maybe Brienne blocked Arya's attacks and didn't let those in because it was sparring. Maybe Brienne wasn't using her full power since it was sparring and she flinched not because she got attacked, but she didn't expect Arya to able to do it. Meaning until that point she didn't take Arya that seriously and was surprised how well she was fighting.
And for evading hits. Yea it's damn hard but doable. Just check Mohamed Ali evading hits in ring. Sure the opponent is going for the head, but still. And doing those evades one risks getting chopped in two, so yea it's movie stuff that looks cool. If Brianne sees her going for a dodge, she could just change the direction of sideways swing to go more downwards.
And for the last point, I think it might be really hard to end sparring naturally in a tie that needed to happen for the story so it ended like one could expected - just seemingly ending in a tie.
Part of the reason she does so many cuts is because she has a sharp sword and can't easily find a training sword. While yes I am sure there are many training swords none of them are likely to be similar to Needle. Generally you want to train with the same type of sword you will be using however there are almost no swords similar to Needle and definitely not any close to hand. As such she does far more cuts so that at most Brienne will only be lightly injured.
Matt Easton from schola gladiatoria chanel has made review about this fight. According to him Arya's needle is a primitive variation smallsword, which is meant solely for thrusts, So there is no edge on it.
I guess matt easton forgot all the times that she used it to cut then.
I suggest you watch my video about her sword: th-cam.com/video/jvUze3v3Vko/w-d-xo.html
Honestly a good review but I do have one or two issues with your assessment. First even with needle being a thin sword it appears to have a duel edge. Any sword with a single or duel edge would have a pair of flats which someone who trained with it as much as she is supposed to have Arya would know where these edges were and could use them to strike to make a point. Like hitting a hand with a switch but made of metal. Second if you watch closely Arya isn’t being powered through by the stronger opponent because she isn’t batting at the larger sword in a clash. Each attack that is Parried she is using distance to step out of danger. The parry you hear is hitting the back edge of Breians sword to increase the swords momentum and keep her off balance and over extended.
even if you succeed in those dodges, its always an option to stop the blade, and cut them there.
I know the sword itself is steel and wouldn't snap or shatter, but could Arya really effectively parry with Needle against Brienne's much larger/heavier sword and all her additional strength/weight behind it? I would have thought that needle would have just been pushed out of the way and Arya is donezo ;;
Need to take in account that the faceless men use a (unknown) form of magic/power given to them by the red god. Her movements may seem like simple dodges and movements but there is likely a hidden factor that is unseeable
You should also kinda take into account that Arya has a somewhat super-natural theme going on with the faceless men and such. Her dodging is, in my opinion, a way to show that special ability. And I also like the tie. Brien has armor, so the cut might have glanced off, whereas Arya would have certainly died. It shows a) a tie but also b) massive recklessness on Aryas side.
thanks snap, great vid! i really enjoyed the "fight".
In that scene where Brienne takes her hand back, I thought that Arya had smacked her hand with the broad side of Needle. I've known this guy once and made the mistake of telling him I had some fencing lessons at one point. He convinced me to train with him and he'd do that smack thing if I opened my stance too much. It hurts no matter what protection you have. (And yes, I realise it's dangerous. I've only ever trained with him once. Never made that mistake again.) But anyway, I've assumed that was what happened there.
Arrya drew her dagger then Brianne grabs her hand with the dagger, and then Arrya switch sword hands and attacks with her left arm.
Well, to be technical about things, Arya was actually making those move "in practice." They were training ;-)
Arya's spin at the beginning was kinda irritating but I did like it when she kept her right arm on her back. Overall, enjoyable and realistic in comparison to other fights in the show or other shows/movies
Is it just me or has Needle grown longer since Jon gave it to her?
The weight of the longsword vs the weight of Arya's sword... Would Arya really be able to hard parry like that? Wouldn't it most likely break her damn wrist or just disarm her?
well she wouldn't be able to parry like that but yea there are ways to parry longsword blows with a smallsword, longswords are not nearly as heavy as got leads people to believe
Yeah that's what I mean, a parry is possible. However she is pretty much at a stage of blocking Brienne's sword.
All I know from being a kid... is that when we used to fight with sticks, if my stick was smaller and lighter and I tried to block a much heavier stick. It wouldn't block it, it would force my wrist backwards and sprain my wrist.
What I am trying to say here is in this guys video.
Arya Stark with needle Vs Brienne of Tarth - Game of Thrones - by scholagladiatoria
At around 11:30.
I am inexperienced in swordsmanship, and as you said... the swords aren't as heavy as some people believe but I didn't want to try explain it, I am terrible at getting my point across... No pun intended.
Did you catch Arya pull the knife with her right hand and switch over to left hand in a cool way?
time to overthink it!! lol
*i have some points to add i think. (I beg pardon for my possible bad english)..
frist of all, you say brienne is not fighting like she wears armor. but this is a training in swords, they ar measuring their habilities with the blade itself. its not about win or loose so i belive we could push a little the odds and say they where just focusing on the blades on purpose.
*i dont think needle would have engouh mass even to stop brienne's long sword, and yet less to repel it. makes no sense using it in defense, and honestly, in some blows that the thin mettal recieve, i think huges gasps where craved in the blade, and it would eventualy be broken in, like, the third or forth strike. no matter how well tempered it is, its still normal steel.
*that kick is kinda ridiculous. arya is fast anough to dodge a slash of a longsword, but not a frontal kick? not even notice it and try to block/ makes no sense at all, not for someone fast and good like that.
arya dropping her sword is pathetic, dont make sense at all, not tjust becouse looks like she droped it on purpose, but because it prroves my point- if brienne has strenght enough to strike the sword out of her hand (while she has perfect control of the grip), she would cut through it easy.
i like to think arya won that fight. why? because the knife is valryan steel. it dont need much strenght, speed or space to do a lot of damage. besides, arya is making a direct piercing move, not a cut, and before brienne could really pull back her sword to strike, the initial movement that puts the knife in that final pose would acctually be enough to pierce her troath.
this is my POV about this fight, in the end, in a serious fight, arya would win, because her real advantage is being agil and quick to dodge and recover for attack. and brienne is strong but really slow in comparison. furtive attacks with a close range blade are really hard to repel with a longsword, and the only hope brienne would have, was to try and keep arya away, what she fails at every angle of the fight, cause arya is too quick to dodge with not even the need to back away. (how the hell in that short time arya goes from a normal girl to a huge experienced warrior of the shadows, without really magic happening is a mystery, but i sitll enjoy it a lot)
- Jelle even SAYS in the video, that weapons do not break that easily. Smack a tree branch of, let's say 5 cm, against the trunk and see what happens. Right, nothing, except for the bark falling off.
- I think it is pretty reasonable that the kick worked. First, Arya is young after all and even may think Brienne has too much "honor" to kick an opponent. Also, she probably concentrated more on that freaking long sword as on Brienne's feet. And as another point: a sword needs space and even if swords were never as slow as many people think (you see how fast they are in the scenes shown in the video), a kick from that close a distance is almost to quick to avoid if made by a professional fighter - which Brienne is, I believe.
- to that sword drop: I give you that, she should not have lost it. But more of the reasons Jelle says, because of what I wrote to that "cut through" topic further above. On the other hand, even with LARP weapons (whose weight is almost non existent) those situations happen more often than you should think, so maybe her grip was at this moment just not absolutely perfect.
- what makes you think, Brienne would have to pull her sword back? You know, you can stab with a sword, too? One simple move forward with the arm and Arya would loose her head. Literally.
* dont know if my english makes it difficult for me to understand this association, but seems to me its not a situation of "smack branch in the tree trunk". its smacking a tree trunk against a branch. the branch will almost certainly break. im talking about a heavy longsword moved with the strenght of the person who defeated the hound, agains a thin and fragile blade. so that comparison of yours makes no sense at all in my oppinion (dont wan't to sound arrogant, thats the way i found to say it with my vocabulary lol). all i want to say is tath there is a reason we don't use florettes to duel longswords.
*ok, reasonable it is, but only if we force the this perspective to accept it, because we love the show we are watching. when they say you have to move your feets while fighting, its because it makes dificult for the ennemy to aym, or to kick your legs and make you fall, and you have to lift your leg, back it off a little to get strenght and then apply the kick (you can see it there in the scene). for me it would hit easily, but for a faceless girl? to me its strange how they allways manage to dodge, jump acrobaticaly and block every blow in movies, but can never prevent a kick.
*how much strenght you think is needed to make a person "loose her head"? its a question of angle, speed and mass. she would never cut her head off, not at that distance, no matter how sharp the blade was. maybe she could achieve a piercing in the skull, if it hits the right angle, but just because we know brienne is fucking strong... but a deep cut in the skin of the forehead is more likelly. we are talking about a stoped sword, really close, inches from the target, righ? bones have it resistences too.
no, you don't know italian fencing, she can do an affondo from that position, she does not need to pull the arm backwards
One thing to keep in mind is that at the start, Brienne was clearly not taking Arya seriously.
I like your comment on the parry and leg thrust at the end- possibly with Brienne anticipating it tho and moving away.
In universe, both fighters are also constrained by the fact that they are testing each other's skills but not *really* trying to kill each other.
One thing you didn't comment on is that I'm pretty sure Brienne is *much* stronger than Arya ((and the actress who plays Gwendoline is much stronger than Maisee).
How good do you think maisee williams is now? Does she show any skill and practice?
How about Gwendoline Christie? I've read and seen that she is supposed to train a lot because she wants to look credible.
I like your commentary. You come across as sincere and not snarky.
Can we have your opinion on the battle in this same episode?
i found wierd how there shieldsmen and spearman (like in the battle of bastards) but the shield are just lite shields, not the huge pavises of the boltons
So - has anyone else noticed the length of Needle change throughout the seasons? It seems like it's gotten longer as time has progressed. Like it's a fucking tree or something.
Thank you for this vid, we asked! Appreciate it!
You forget (4:40) that Brienne's sword is Valyrian steel which can cut through steel. But insightful none the less.
she is using a practice sword
SnapJelly oops I didn't notice. Ty.
Arya's sword is valyrian
Jovauni Neil No... but why would you think that?
in the scene they demonstrated that Arya could have stabbed Brienne on her legs, from her legs up to her body, her hands, her face, her neck and possibly under the armpits. All very dangerous and effective stabbing points.
You failed to mention how Arya threw the dagger from one hand to the other at the end because Brienne grabs the first hand. I thought that looked pretty cool and was smart.
not only because she grabbed her hand, arya is also left handed, she changed it to her strong hand
man it's really funny...i do not give a shit about sword fighting or medieval battles but your videos are so entertaining and interesting to me, and really educative!
They were just sparring, but in i real life or death fight in real life, arya wouldnt stand a change right? No armour wich brienne have. And shorter reach. Not a pro and have never Done hema. But still right?
Erik Engardt yes,in a real fight (in real life of course) Brienne would've won,there's a point were the sheer difference in size makes a fight pretty much unwinnable for the smaller opponent
Maybe she's parrying with the valyrian steel dagger?
small request id like to have your opinion on greatswords and there viabillity could be in a video or a lectured answer i love what your doing keep it going ;)
Who needs viability they look awesome
This fight is awesome when it comes to fantasy and suspending your disbelief, BUT as a practical real life fight... lol its completely impossible. First of all Arya and "Needle" would not have enough power to deflect Brienne's huge force, let alone with one hand... Brienne would go trough it all
But again this is a fantasy world, its made to look cool, its like in movies fist and kick fights that are super cool would never happen like that in real life, so im very fine with it.
What a dramatic greeting :D
The last one - the "throught cut". To me it seems a bad work of the film editor. It should be shown like Brien is preparing for a thrust, but when she is ready to make it, she sees that Arya dagger is already at her neck for a while. Meaning Arya could thrust her throught when she was only leading back her arm before her thrust.
Apart from the candle, what has Arya cut with Needle? I only remember her stabbing with it - the candle doesn't count, it could have been blown out by the movement of the blade. Also, Brianne is very much aware she's fighting one of the girls she's pledged to protect, and her opponent is literally half her size.... I think she was holding back all the way through, except for when she got carried away and booted Arya in the chest (note how worried she looked!). So it's cool 👻 I really enjoyed this fight too - when Arya is attacking with the blade above her head, the whole movement is so balletic and lovely - very 1950s swashbuckling! ❤️
she cut's off the head of a pidgeon in season 1 I believe
SnapJelly Oh yeah.... that would have been difficult with this sword! I think I've selectively forgotten it so the rest makes sense ❤️👻
Hey there fellow Dutchie! Recognized your accent ^^ Also, your hair is gorgeous. You take good care of it. Kudos, you're pretty ^^
my hair gives me power!
Hahaha good :P You really own it ^^
what was the music the video opened with? I liked it!
Can you make a video about the trickweapons of Bloodborne?
Their batshit badassery needs to be reviewed.
You had no problem with Syrio Forel doing the same with a wooden sword, but when arya does the same, its bullshit... Right?
I've never talked about Syrio Forel
Sorry, I did not mean you personally, but the fans in general.
First time watching your videos and have to say I really enjoyed it. Will definitely watch more!
As far as Arya and the "Cutting" confusion, look at her face. IMO, she is doing it as a "Tap" or "Touch". Arya is, pardon the pun, making a point, "Hey, I just got inside your guard", or "I just got 2 touches on your 4 & 6 zone". I am a foil and epee fencer, and do live steel at ren faires, so I have done/seen the "just a tap to say I was here" thing. Thats what I think Arya is doing. Huzzah!
Aryas sword is an 18th century small sword and isnt sharp but Has a triangeld blade.
And because of the candle i guess shes more breaking it i mean it’s wax
she cut's of the head of a pidgeon with it
SnapJelly ok than it’s a fault off the series
can Arya's sword break under the force of a longsword slash?
nah, it'll probably just flex
Loved this fight but hated why its even there. I agree that Arya using her actual sword was just ungh!! I would rather have had Arya pick up a broom or a stick to use. The moves were fine. Brieane didn't just finch to flinch she got hit in the hand the strike to her chest piece or side didn't even bother her. Anyways the fight had some problems but I liked it well enough. Still, I hated that Arya basically just showed off what she can do for "training" and that's not what an assassin would do. She isn't some grunt, and the character is suppose to be smarter than this.
It’s funny how the show and the audience really treat Arya like a little 7 year old girl, while in reality the actor who plays her is in her late 20s.
IMHO, the reason why Brienne is flinching, is because she doesn't expect Arya to be skilled in fighting, so it's a genuine surprise.
And another point, they are training, so they are not trying to go for knockout, but for hits, as if both of them had no armor.
Aaaand the last one. Yes, Arya is using sharp blade, she was trained that way in Temple of black and white, means to show that she is a killer, not a noble knight.
Everyone thinks that needle is Arya's main weapon. Assassin's main weapon is hidden and should only be used once, usually the killing blow. Needle was nothing but a distraction to make her opponent fixate on Needle. You can see it, the moment Brienne disarmed Arya. Brienne was totally caught off guard and was not able to fully counter the dagger strike.
I think there is a reason rapier, sabers came after the long sword
Some smallswords did have moderately sharp edges
You know what, Rule of Cool wins me over with this one. Yes, it's implausible that Arya would be this good or that Brienne wouldn't beat her easily and some of the stuff in the fight doesn't make too much sense, but I think it's one of the best choreographed fights in the show and it looks hella cool.
Compared to lot of the other shit in this season this is a fairly non issue scene for me. I like that it's there.
Lol you can break through steel. Your argument is even if you put two blocks, each at end, and you striked ar the middle with the force of a thousand sun's, it won't break because it's made of steel. It would break. The question is how much force....
+SnapJelly, I really enjoyed this video and your presentation style. My question is about Arya's fighting style...the sword behind the back, the ninja type moves... Is that a particular style or something the choreographer made up to look stylish? Thank you.
It's just to look stylish
I was hoping you'd do a video on this scene.
1 minute in but you get the like for acknowledging that Arya's sword is sharp and has an edge. Too many ppl saying its not edged, although as you said it has some but not much slashing/cutting power.
Four20Kevin valerian steel is all power
when Brienne swings back after Arya dodges the first swing, she goes for the head.
why.
go for the leg.
she knows that.
if not by the second swing, by the third, she should have gone for the leg.
it's basic logic... if by the return swing you didn't get your opponent, now you're into a third swing, and the opponent knows you're open... they're most likely planning _their_ thrust as you round back _for_ your swing!
your logic would get you killed mate, stab brienne in the leg and she'll stab you right back, stab het in the face and she'll instantly drop dead
The way Brienne swings, shes not sparring. Shes trying to actually Kill Arya, even if its a blunt sword for sparring (which i doubt..) A connecting blow would break Aryas face.
Martin Reaver She was getting flustered through out the fight
While I did enjoy this scene and most of the fight seemed reasonable except Arya's spinning and putting her sword behind her back, I do feel the urge to nit pick a few things. First of all, even the thought of practice fighting without heavy and complete armor if fucking ludicrous. If Brienne hit her in the head with one of the many massive swings that she targeted there, Arya would be seriously injured even if Brienne is just using a dull practice sword. Worse yet Arya is using 2 sharpened blades one of which has valyrian steel. One slip up and Arya kills Brienne and Arya can't even practice fight properly because she can't even touch her. Sure she keeps placing her blades in front of Brienne's face and posing but if you pay attention you will notice that her arm is already fully stretched so in a real fight she hasn't gotten the "kill".
Finally, of course the water dancer is beating the Knight with no helm or shield. It would be 10 times harder to pierce Brienne if she was properly equipped but the show refuses to use shields or helmets.
Don't get me wrong I did enjoy the fight and there was a lot of tension about Arya accidentally killing Brienne. I just wish the show payed more attention to the smaller details which are much easier to achieve then the bigger ones (Like completely realistic choreography) and can still go along way to make the scene more believable.
Also, shouldn't Arya have been unable to move for a while after that massive kick in the stomach?
i saw Arya block with one-hand against Brienne, i don't believe she physically could block angainst someone who i would assume would be far stronger and have better technique.
I'm not prepared or skilled whatsoever in swordfight (not european swords at least) but if I may express my opinion....It looks a lot like Brienne was just underestimating Arya. And within good reason I'd say. Brienne is a skilled fighter with years and years of experience, skilled enough to top Sandor Clegane. Arya, on the other hand, has no actual fighting experience and everything she has is the training at the house of black and white and her speed. So, in the end, I think Brienne flinched only because she didn't expect to be hit, and on top of that I think probably she becomes to get a bit angry at some point, like when she kick Arya in the guts
I did like the fight, but the fact that arya parries those strong attack from a woman who can kill with one punch made it a little less enjoyable. It looked like those anime fights.
SnapJelly could you please do a review of peters sword and armor from Narnia. Ps love your content
This user seems to be playing down the cutting power as if she's using a steel sword. When she isn't. It's made of fictional metal that makes it much much stronger than anything. Basically the writer read lots of X-Men, and this is one of the things he made for the show. Basically the thing to think about is not Arya's sword not being powerful enough. It's that with all those hits, it didn't break Brienne's sword.
But yes the use of real weapons was something I was wondering about. If anybody actually does that.
wow, i hope i can study swordplay one time int the future. How'd you start with that hobby sort? cool
I started larping when I was 13, pretty soon I encountered reenactors and HEMA practitioners so I just tagged along with them
SnapJelly same story exactly but the prices aint cheap so its like i cpuld only afford a few lessons. watching vicariously from your vids somehow sates the lack hahaha
ooooh searched waht larping is. that's cool. we dont have those kinds here.
Great piece of theater and an excellent practice scene.
The key elements are Arya's confidence and Brienne's shock.
Basically every swordsman would make the same mistake as Brienne in discounting Arya's confidence, aggression, and ability.
Brienne will certainly choose a much lighter weapon if they practice again.
Heavy swords are so predictable and Brienne was using undoubtedly a very heavy practice sword. Once the strike is commenced it is impossible to stop or alter direction. Would she be capable of altering her style? She certainly would like to try. Next time Brienne is going ask Arya for a training session. That is what a really expert would done. Always learn.
Face it, Bran is the Three Eye Raven, Rob has risen from the dead, so Arya can have her "not really possible" moves.
you mean Jon has risen from the dead?