Another thank you for this video. I rebuilt my engine last year with your help and now I'm tackling the suspension and alignment. I've been gathering the tools needed since then getting an EZ lift and then to simulate the turn tables I got Paco Motorsports hub stands with hardened steel wheels on the bottom so I can make the adjustments with the car loaded. Those hub stands help with thrust and toe measurement and just setting that up showed me past butchery from careless work in the past. I'll be setting up the string after I finish my work sometime next week. Thanks again and wish me luck! I'm a first timer so I'll need it, lol.
I also use strings. ( smart racing products, Smart Strings, smart camber, camber gauge. I never heard of locking up the brakes. I have an alignment plat form. That I level perfectly. Do you corner balance the car when your done? If the cross wights are jacked, it will turn easier one way, than the other. It makes a huge difference in handling. As far as setting up my strings, I don’t use the body, I use the center caps of all four wheels. I have longacre scales. Height adjusting equipment, and laser leveling equipment to level the scales. I don’t know why someone would want the car lifted, beyond standard ride height. Do you roll the car back and forth after your adjustments? Everything is mono ball quick change camber, and quick change spring plates. No rubber in the suspension at all, but is a Autocross time trial car. Good video. scales
Rod, Thanks for your comments but a couple of things you might want to consider. When it comes to doing corner weights that work needs to be done first not after an alignment. Checking corner weights is a diagnostic function as it will show you a bad spring/torsion bar as well as allowing you to fine tune the ride height. However, the alignment has to be re-done after any changes have been made to the ride heights or spring/torsion bar adjustments. The other issue is measuring off the center caps to set the strings. The track, (Width) is different on the front versus the rear axles on all 911 models. To get the strings parallel to vehicle you would need to know your offsets and be able to measure accurately to compensate for that difference. You will also have a hard time ascertaining the thrust angle, it would be very hard to measure if you base your strings on the wheel hub measurements. lastly the wheel hubs move ever so slightly when adjusting toe and camber. This means that your strings will start off not being parallel and hence result in an inaccurate measurement and adjustment. The Reason why you need to lock the brakes when doing an alignment is for the castor sweep. If the wheel is allowed to rotate even in the smallest amount it will give you a false castor reading and hence a bad adjustment. Ride heights are key to a vehicle driving and handling the way it was designed to. However sometimes ride heights need to be adjusted for certain applications and conditions. For example our own 911SC is set higher than a stock 911SC as we live in area that is on dirt roads and snow in the winter time. The car with a stock ride height lacks the ground clearance to operate in these conditions, hence the need to raise the car. The trick is when either raising or lowering a vehicle is keeping the suspension within it usable operating ranges. Going too high or too low is a problem that can result in a very poor handling vehicle. Kurt
@@klassikats I had the cars re checked at an alignment shop to see how close I was. Both an early 911 and a 1998 993. My settings were not stock but set up for Autocross, and the tires (Goodyear cantilever slicks) and the settings I got were within tolerance I always check before and after settings, and corner balance to get a baseline. I have a program on the computer for corner balancing. Both cars handle great. The early car was way off on corner balance The 993 was bump steering in the back, due to the kenematic toe being way off on one side. I have a very robust alignment platform, I bought from Rod Emory. which is so heavy it’s a Pain to set up. I had installed all new suspension on both cars, so I wasn’t worried about anything being bent. I follow the directions that Rich Walton at Jerry Woods’ shop gave me. I work off an alignment spec sheet, that gives the proper order for all adjustments. I have the drivers weight in the car, and the amount of fuel that I expect to have. The early car is set up low, but I have adjustable front spindles, with Fox racing shocks, and custom length triple adjustable Bilstien schocks in the rear, and of course a professional bump steer setup. Thanks for the feedback.
I agree with the other commenters, what a great video. There are tons of YT alignment videos, but this one is simple and very understandable. One question: I haven' t seen any video that talks about loading the car with weighs, based upon how the car is driven, such as (1) is it normally driven alone with no passengers, (2) do you normally carry a significant amount of weight in the trunk, etc. Is there a reason why I don't see anyone loading the driver's seat or passenger seats with weight?
Douglas, I will put weight in the front of the car to account for a low fuel amount. When you set up the alignment you want the car at its curb weight, meaning full tank of gas, all fluids topped off, spare tire, and tool kit installed. I wont usually weight the car for just a driver. The weight of a driver alone is pretty insignificant to the handling characteristics of the car. The only reason that I could see was if the driver was unusably heavy to a point that it affected the handling of the car. In that instance I could see weighting the drivers seat. The only issue with doing that is that if anyone else drives the car it will not handle the same for those individuals. Thanks for watching Kurt
All the adjustments are done while the vehicle is sitting on its wheels. I you tried to jack the car up and make an adjustment nothing is going to be within spec because of the way the suspension moves. This is why we have to use slip plates under the wheels, to allow things to move while everything is under load. Thanks for watching
Hi Kurt - thanks a lot for the video! For racing I think suspension tuning is critical since everyone is building similar spec engines. What are your thoughts on using the center wheel hubs to find parallel on the strings? Would you be willing to sell me an adapter for the longacre? I’m running 6x15 in the front, 7x15 on the rear, both Fuchs. Also, would love to see a weight balancing video. Would changes to weight balance affect camber / toe? Sorry for all the questions!
Rob, yes you are 100% correct the suspension set up is key to success in a race car. It is also one of the most over looked setups by amateur racers. Setting suspension heights is best done using corner scales if available and getting camber, castor and toe settings right for the track you are on. Tracking tire temps across the tire will help tell you how your suspension set up is working. You cannot easily use the center hubs to set your strings parallel to the chassis as you will need to take into account that the track sizes are different front to rear. To build you an adaptor for your longearce gauge I would need to know what size your hub cap hole is, Porsche uses to different sizes on there rims. If you are not using a Fuchs rim I would also need to know if there is a groove in the rim to hold the hub cap in as I use that same groove to hold the adaptor against the rim.
@@klassikats Thanks Kurt. I measured the 4 wheel hubs using a telescoping gauge and then a mic. I get measurements ranging from 65.98mm to 66.06mm. My guess is they are 66mm and I’m just seeing measurement variability. The wheels are all Fuchs. Let me know how you would like to proceed - through the comments or email. Thanks, Rob
Another thank you for this video. I rebuilt my engine last year with your help and now I'm tackling the suspension and alignment. I've been gathering the tools needed since then getting an EZ lift and then to simulate the turn tables I got Paco Motorsports hub stands with hardened steel wheels on the bottom so I can make the adjustments with the car loaded. Those hub stands help with thrust and toe measurement and just setting that up showed me past butchery from careless work in the past. I'll be setting up the string after I finish my work sometime next week. Thanks again and wish me luck! I'm a first timer so I'll need it, lol.
Sounds like you have all the right stuff to do a good job
Kurt
Hi, thanks for the video, I’m really enjoying your channel!!!😁
Glad you liked it. Thanks for watching!
I also use strings. ( smart racing products, Smart Strings, smart camber, camber gauge. I never heard of locking up the brakes. I have an alignment plat form. That I level perfectly. Do you corner balance the car when your done? If the cross wights are jacked, it will turn easier one way, than the other. It makes a huge difference in handling. As far as setting up my strings, I don’t use the body, I use the center caps of all four wheels. I have longacre scales. Height adjusting equipment, and laser leveling equipment to level the scales. I don’t know why someone would want the car lifted, beyond standard ride height. Do you roll the car back and forth after your adjustments? Everything is mono ball quick change camber, and quick change spring plates. No rubber in the suspension at all, but is a Autocross time trial car. Good video.
scales
Rod,
Thanks for your comments but a couple of things you might want to consider. When it comes to doing corner weights that work needs to be done first not after an alignment. Checking corner weights is a diagnostic function as it will show you a bad spring/torsion bar as well as allowing you to fine tune the ride height. However, the alignment has to be re-done after any changes have been made to the ride heights or spring/torsion bar adjustments. The other issue is measuring off the center caps to set the strings. The track, (Width) is different on the front versus the rear axles on all 911 models. To get the strings parallel to vehicle you would need to know your offsets and be able to measure accurately to compensate for that difference. You will also have a hard time ascertaining the thrust angle, it would be very hard to measure if you base your strings on the wheel hub measurements. lastly the wheel hubs move ever so slightly when adjusting toe and camber. This means that your strings will start off not being parallel and hence result in an inaccurate measurement and adjustment.
The Reason why you need to lock the brakes when doing an alignment is for the castor sweep. If the wheel is allowed to rotate even in the smallest amount it will give you a false castor reading and hence a bad adjustment.
Ride heights are key to a vehicle driving and handling the way it was designed to. However sometimes ride heights need to be adjusted for certain applications and conditions. For example our own 911SC is set higher than a stock 911SC as we live in area that is on dirt roads and snow in the winter time. The car with a stock ride height lacks the ground clearance to operate in these conditions, hence the need to raise the car. The trick is when either raising or lowering a vehicle is keeping the suspension within it usable operating ranges. Going too high or too low is a problem that can result in a very poor handling vehicle.
Kurt
@@klassikats I had the cars re checked at an alignment shop to see how close I was. Both an early 911 and a 1998 993. My settings were not stock but set up for Autocross, and the tires (Goodyear cantilever slicks) and the settings I got were within tolerance I always check before and after settings, and corner balance to get a baseline. I have a program on the computer for corner balancing. Both cars handle great. The early car was way off on corner balance
The 993 was bump steering in the back, due to the kenematic toe being way off on one side. I have a very robust alignment platform, I bought from Rod Emory. which is so heavy it’s a Pain to set up. I had installed all new suspension on both cars, so I wasn’t worried about anything being bent. I follow the directions that Rich Walton at Jerry Woods’ shop gave me. I work off an alignment spec sheet, that gives the proper order for all adjustments. I have the drivers weight in the car, and the amount of fuel that I expect to have. The early car is set up low, but I have adjustable front spindles, with Fox racing shocks, and custom length triple adjustable Bilstien schocks in the rear, and of course a professional bump steer setup. Thanks for the feedback.
Thanks very good Explanation and sample work
You are welcome
thanks for watching
Kurt
I agree with the other commenters, what a great video. There are tons of YT alignment videos, but this one is simple and very understandable. One question: I haven' t seen any video that talks about loading the car with weighs, based upon how the car is driven, such as (1) is it normally driven alone with no passengers, (2) do you normally carry a significant amount of weight in the trunk, etc. Is there a reason why I don't see anyone loading the driver's seat or passenger seats with weight?
Douglas,
I will put weight in the front of the car to account for a low fuel amount. When you set up the alignment you want the car at its curb weight, meaning full tank of gas, all fluids topped off, spare tire, and tool kit installed. I wont usually weight the car for just a driver. The weight of a driver alone is pretty insignificant to the handling characteristics of the car. The only reason that I could see was if the driver was unusably heavy to a point that it affected the handling of the car. In that instance I could see weighting the drivers seat. The only issue with doing that is that if anyone else drives the car it will not handle the same for those individuals.
Thanks for watching
Kurt
Great video, thank you, do you do the rear adjustments under load or jack up ?
All the adjustments are done while the vehicle is sitting on its wheels. I you tried to jack the car up and make an adjustment nothing is going to be within spec because of the way the suspension moves. This is why we have to use slip plates under the wheels, to allow things to move while everything is under load.
Thanks for watching
Hi Kurt - thanks a lot for the video! For racing I think suspension tuning is critical since everyone is building similar spec engines. What are your thoughts on using the center wheel hubs to find parallel on the strings? Would you be willing to sell me an adapter for the longacre? I’m running 6x15 in the front, 7x15 on the rear, both Fuchs. Also, would love to see a weight balancing video. Would changes to weight balance affect camber / toe? Sorry for all the questions!
Rob, yes you are 100% correct the suspension set up is key to success in a race car. It is also one of the most over looked setups by amateur racers. Setting suspension heights is best done using corner scales if available and getting camber, castor and toe settings right for the track you are on. Tracking tire temps across the tire will help tell you how your suspension set up is working.
You cannot easily use the center hubs to set your strings parallel to the chassis as you will need to take into account that the track sizes are different front to rear. To build you an adaptor for your longearce gauge I would need to know what size your hub cap hole is, Porsche uses to different sizes on there rims. If you are not using a Fuchs rim I would also need to know if there is a groove in the rim to hold the hub cap in as I use that same groove to hold the adaptor against the rim.
@@klassikats Thanks Kurt. I measured the 4 wheel hubs using a telescoping gauge and then a mic. I get measurements ranging from 65.98mm to 66.06mm. My guess is they are 66mm and I’m just seeing measurement variability. The wheels are all Fuchs. Let me know how you would like to proceed - through the comments or email. Thanks, Rob
Excellent video Kurt thank you .. where did you get the tables to support the car?
I built those Tables
Thanks
Kurt
What do you set toe at for the front axle? 1mm toe in for normal driving, and 1mm toe out for a track car?
You dont ever want toe out on one of these cars. There is going to be no difference between the track and the street settings for toe in.
Kurt
your rear subframe is shifted 5 mm to the left
There is no subframe on a 911
Kurt
Did you "Targar"?
I have no idea???