House of the Dragon S2E04 live Q&A discussion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ค. 2024
- Discussing House of the Dragon S2E04! No spoilers for future episodes.
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Daemon meeting eyepatched Daemon is like Alt Shift X meeting Alt Schwift X.
you will have my like for that ser
@@foerbjoern4916*slices through your head* You can keep your like.
Can someone explain the Shift/Schwift thing to me, please. I’m new to the channel, so I’m not “in” on the joke/reference. My best guess is that Schwift is his alt channel?
@@MiraBoo you are correct. Alt Schwift X is his alternate account where he is funnier and more laid back. So he has characterized the channel as his evil “half” twin.
@MiraBoo they also seemingly have joint custody of Glidus
Daemon: I shall not eat your poison peas sir
Also Daemon: more witch tonic please
Best 2 quotes besides its a chair made of swords. Why does he get the best lines😂
Yeah Daemon's actions last episode really don't make sense to me as he was suspicious upon going there and why would he put up w/this witch talking to him as casually as she does unless she already has some sort of spell on him which we never mentioned in the books.
Hahaha I guess Daemon saw Alys eating it, so at least he knew it didnt have poison in it.
@@SaneMillennial He saw Alys eating the paste. Also, I’m pretty sure the real reason he didn’t eat the peas was that he was upset, not that he thought they were poisoned. Like a teenager throwing a tantrum.
@@azlanadil3646 yeah, he was just really pissy that he didn't get to kill anyone. He went looking for violence and was presented with peas instead.
“Vhagar is the size of a Boeing 747 and nearly as dangerous” may be the funniest thing I’ve ever heard
Ludicrously capacious dragon
And now working for Boeing's just as dangerous as flying on them
Vhagar reminds me of Godzilla with wings
And yet people are still fixated on the exact mechanism by which the reptilian Tzar Bomba was able to kill Melys.
@@kuroroedamamecareful to not whistle blow
Sweet Meleys staring at Rhaeneys as she died.
And Sweet Sunfire booping Aegon before departure.
yeah that's what broke me, too
I can't forget this scene...
it brought tears to my eyes.
Probably the most wholesome dragon and dragonrider bond yet. Rhaenys so far seems to have been the best dragon rider in shows she will be definitely missed by Blacks.
Aegon is one of the worst people but Sunfyre treating Aegon like a beloved owner was beautiful to me
They share a bond, he has been very good to sunfyre as well
I blame aegons parents on how he ended up. He clearly is capable of love and good, like with his son and dragon but he’s clearly not raised right. Hes not a psychopath Like Ramsey but isn’t a good person
Aegon himself is sadly not at fault. His parents fucked him up big time. Imagine yourself being first born royalty (massive ego) but your parents never teach you anything really, or for that matter your household never gives a fuck about you so you end up a drunk entitled pos without having learned what common, baseline decency is.
You can see often enough thoughout the second season now that Aegon is just a lost child without guidance and still, noone cares. "Do what is expected of you, nothing" It is a vicious circle he is in and with flying to war he tries to regain any semblance of authority and grip on his title, wheter it being for the right reason or not is up to question.
He knows his father never wanted him as king and deep down he still knows it, no matterif he got crowned king but like Rhaenyra he realizes he is in too deep to step back now so make the "best" of the situation.
Poor Sunfyre though... broke my heart to see him suffer like that...
That's such an F'ed up mindset to have. But guess it's easier to not hold people accountable @@arkarosh7043
Like Cheese & his dog. Pets humanize people
The brutality of a visual dance of dragons exceeded all my expectations. I wouldn't have ever expected to feel so bad for the dragons themselves.
I felt the same, it was unexpectedly heartbreaking. Sunfyre’s screams really hit me :(
It was tragic, epic, and fully lived up to my expectations of what a dragon battle would look like.
I was SO SAD for Sunfyre. She looked so cute and happy when she first walked up and started pushing drunk Aegon 😂
@@Jon155mtsunfyre is male btw
@@madnessends2477 Cool story, my point still stands lol. Poor thing got mauled undeservingly.
Sunfyre is the only thing that ever loved Aegon unconditionally. Heart-breaking to see him broken.
This is a devastating framing of their relationship and you’re absolutely spot on.
Sunfyre stood absolutely no chance against Meleys, I felt bad for the poor thing. Not to mention his cries were horrific
Yes wow so he loses his son who was probably one of the only people who looked up to him and loved him, and now sunfyre is broken. I wonder how Aegon will be when if he wakes up
I'm sure his children love(d) him unconditionally.
@@carastone3473 true, true. His progeny appeared little, but the Blood and Cheese EP showed Aegon interacting with them some.
Aegon not knowing fluent Valyrian and commanding Sunfyre in English was an excellent touch, and the shot of Vhaegar hiding in the grass gave a stealth dynamic to fantasy WMDs I'd never considered
I found it to be a poor decision and just another attempt to make Aegon less than serious. Hes explicitly stated to have an excellent connection with Sunfyre in season 1 by one of the valyrian speaking dragonkeepers.
Sunfyre and Aegon's strong connection is essentially his most defining feature.
@@will2brown50yeah how is that exclusive? He has such a deep bond with Sunfyre that he doesnt need to speak High Valyrian to communicate with Sunfyre.
@@will2brown50To be fair they were all commanding their dragons in that fight. Also Aegon was drunk, that could have affected his ability to properly control Sunfyre.
@@thepowerofsand6180 Tom Glynn Carneys recent message indicates that the writers wanted him to be flying Sunfyre in a way that was barely in control.
He was getting clowned even there.
The writers want Aegon II to be a joke of a character, and it seems virtually all of his personal depth comes from scenes TGC had to actually ask for. Without that, we would have an even bigger caricature.
Now I'm hoping that this is part of a plan to have Aegon become a lot more serious after his maiming, culminating in the ending of the book events, but I have my doubts.
The field scenes have had excellent attention to detail this season. Vhagar camouflaged in the woods, glint from the armor, Cole and the knights actually commanding the levies from the back and people walking and not running into the fray like the Avengers after Cole's speech are all pretty realistic choices.
Keeping everything crossed that we get a Paddy appearance in Daemon's dreams.
Me too!
God I hope. Viserys was the best in Season 1
So Tyland is a horse, Criston is a bed, and Alys is an owl now? I'm having trouble keeping up with all these shapeshifters.
Daemon is abroad, Larys is afoot...
@@ShubertReads lolol
@@ShubertReadsLarys must reaaaally like himself then
regardless, we are being given the impression Aemond was trying to kill Aegon twice
Three times!
Aemond should have ended Cole as well.
I saw it as more recklessly hoping he would be killed, but not much difference in effect I guess
@@F0XD1Eif he did I’d actually switch to team Green.
@@notribadsvault except his sword is drawn when he's approaching the crash site
I love how the battle almost stops entirely whilst people watch the dragons fight
it doesn't really matter once the lizards get there
I’d have a hard time staying focused with giant fire breathing lizards flying above me as well. I’d be like maybe we should not be underneath these big ass beasts. 😂🤣
@@gingercatqueen4368😂😂 same
The lord was like” unhand me I’m gonna watch this epic dragon fight” 😂
@@gingercatqueen4368 true lol, if your dragon wind in the air then you can get brave on the ground because it's pretty much over
I feel bad for Aegon man. He’s an idiot and a terrible person but my heart actually broke for him when Allicent pretty much called him useless to his face 😭. All the man ever wanted his entire life was love and validation and he got neither from his mom or his dad. I also love how they showed how much he adored Sunfyre in such a short little scene.
He was drunk, I dunno how much weight you can give to his affection for sunfyre. Thats how I look at my keys when im drunk
I always felt bad for Aegon, in the book also. He’s a spoiled, entitled, selfish, idiot, but he’s not evil and he was completely at the mercy of his plotting family who didn’t give a crap about him.
@@christinestreeter8566 bro raped a servant girl wdym he isn't evil
I don't think Alicent believes he's useless, she's just aware that he wasn't raised nor educated to be king so he can't be one, so he shouldn't be trying to lead everything over people that know way better than him, so he should calm down and listen. It's the truth and a good advise, the problem is in how she says it. She's so tired, so beyond everything, the war is already consuming her thanks to the implications, so she's absolutely tactless with Aegon, she doesn't realize how bad and rude she's being with an advise that phrased properly can be helpful. She does this bc she already knows war ia going to end all of them, every side, that she can't do anything, that they won't listen to her and that everyone, including Aegon, will do anything they want from now on, so she feels like she can be totally honest bc it can't get worse and everything will fall apart anyways, so she just tells Aegon how bad he's doing and what he should have done, which is already a lost chance. If you combine all that with his daddy issues of never feeling loved or useful, with any purpose in life, when he finally felt like being king was giving him some of that, well, this is how that ends.
@@BasilHagensdo you also have the best bond ever recorded in Westeros history with your keys?
Daemon last episode:
"These peas are probably poisoned."
Daemon this episode:
"Hee hee witch Kool aid, ty. No don't tell me specifically what it is, that's the best part."
Daemon looks like he's been in a drunken and drug bender since he came to the castle. He is often completely out of it, not surprised he's doing stupid shit.
@@practiceyourart Fear and Loathing in Harrenhall
@@ManforSomeMarketsWe can't stop here! This is Whent country!
and is hilarious that in this world "poison is the weapon of a woman" and Daemon drinks the last drop of that thing xD
We never see him take that first sip. Watch carefully. I think he was influenced to drink it by Alys
I see a lot of people surprised by the fact that a dragon like Vhagar would resort to sneak attacks, but that's actually fairly realistic (within the confines of the show), I'd argue. People seem to have disposition for expecting honorable duels whether it be in knight fights, or dragon battles, yet that's not how history or nature often play out.
Animals like crocodiles and other large predators resort to sneak attacks precisely because they are big and less maneuverable. A smaller and faster target is far less likely to give you an opening if they see you coming. Not to mention, when it comes to survival, creatures choose weaker or unexpecting targets to minimize the bodily harm that comes to them. I imagine that's how a dragon rider would sustain a longer tenure, by not being predictable.
That said, it is surprising that Aemond and Vhagar maneuvered to that position without being noticed, but I guess in the chaos of war and smoke they could fly low until swooping under the cliffside. I think seeing Vhagar ambush in the season 1 finale was really cool in how she used clouds for cover. Gave an almost aquatic quality to her hunting style.
Also it's neat to see the dragons primarily clashing like eagles do in turf wars and mating rituals, locking into a death spiral. Really makes it a literal dragon dance.
I will never understand why people hates so much on smart strategic moves and fights bc they prefer/see as better honorable stuff. Like, if someone has honor and acts/fights like that, great, but why the surprise or hate on someone doing stuff like hide or go behind someone's back like that's dirty or cowardly when in reality is just smarter? Makes no sense to me, but there's so many people that act like that.
It’s not about honor, Vhagar is visibly old, sluggish and gigantic. It doesnt have a stealth build bro.
I still think it’s cool, don’t get me wrong
I do like the idea of it explained like that. Like a crocodile
If I had a nickel for every time the largest dragon in westeros activated stealthmode successfully, I would have 5 nickels, which isn't a lot, but considering Vhagar's size, its strange that it happened.
When Aemon crashed to the ground, he didn't fly. He maneuvered the dragon into position by walking in the opposite direction Rhaenys flew.
When she flew back searching for him, she couldn't see him because he had walked to the position he waited for her.
“I can have to make war” made me laugh out loud alone in the living room lol
“I can haz cheeseburger?” ahh boi
I thought something was wrong with the subtitles at first, then I realized "Omg, Aegon don't speak Valyrian good", which tracks soooo much 🤣
It was "I can have to make a war?"
There's something so sad about seeing the actual war between dragons begin, knowing that the Battle of Rook's Rest is where the official downfall of those beautiful creatures starts
No fr. Sunfyre and Meleys are so beautiful and majestic, I hated seeing them get so brutally hurt 😭
So by the end of the show the dragons are all dead? No spoilers other than the dragons please
@@dantederi5062 No, a few survive and go missing
they ugly
They're just animals at the end of the day. It's sad.
I think part of Rhanys turning around is a call back to season 1. Everyone was saying “You had a chance to kill Aegon and keep the war from starting and you didn’t take it”. Now she was given the chance to end the war verifying Aegon was killed and she wasn’t going to make the same mistake twice.
yes, i agree. she messed up not burning them all when she had the chance, HOWEVER when she saw Aegon fall that shouldve been enough of a victory to retreat back to Dragonstone and report the outcome
@@K124Bbut then the soldiers fighting to hold the keep for the blacks would see their leaders abandoning them while the greens have a dragon killing them all. Not a good look.
@@K124B I think she wanted to make sure. The falling was bad, but I feel she really wanted to make sure the deed as done. Bc until she lays eyes on a corpse… it is never 100%
That was my immediate thought too while watching it.
Ah you’re right, that’s the real sticking point for her staying. She feels guilty about Luke’s death and doesn’t want to miss this opportunity to end the war. That’s why she doesn’t retreat.
I think something no one has mentioned as to why Rhaenys was so determined to continue to circle around to the fight time and time again despite taking damage was the fact Aemond was riding Vhagar, her daughter’s dragon. The dragon Aemond claimed on the night of Laena’s funeral, swept out from under Baela before she had a chance to claim Vhagar.
Aemond is using what is essentially what Rhaenys believes to be the one of the last remaining pieces of her children’s’ memories in this world to continue the cycle of violence and steal the throne from her family.
That's a very good and powerful point. Thank you for sharing that
Yeah but dragons don't belong to anyone, her family had no more right to Vhagar than he did
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy I’m not saying that Aemond broke any rules. In fact I agree with you. I’m saying that claiming a dragon at the rider’s funeral definitely seems to be in poor taste, especially in the eyes of a grieving mother. Objectively, he did nothing wrong. But this isn’t an objective story, it’s deeply emotional and subjective.
@@j4ouurr okay yeah true that, sorry, I'm accustomed to idiots making the case that Vhagar belonged to her daughters because they don't read the books and understand the rules
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy Nah dude you’re fine, I get it. I’ve seen people say that too and I don’t understand it either. The only stated rule about dragons being claimed is that the bond between dragon and rider is lifelong and that a rider can only bond to one dragon, and vice versa.
"I expected you to learn" says she who has refused to teach
This!
Exactly! She may be right, but it's HER fault!
She’s not the one who has plotted to put her son on the throne for years. It’s more on Otto that Aegon isn’t in any way competent to be king.
Both Alicent (as much as I love her) and Otto I feel purposefully neglected Aegon's education either expecting him to be as good as Aemond naturally or wanting him to be ignorant to be a better puppet to rule through
Seeing Vhagar in action was amazing, I especially love her adorable huff when she lays back down she's like a grumpy puppy and I also loved her stomping on the soldiers.
lmao
Aemond: Vhagar, stay down
Vhagar: BUT I DONT WANNNAAA 😔☹😑😑
puppy? she looks like a swamp witch grandma
The little huff was a nice touch, I saw it as something like a very old hound dog, who starts to get up because he thinks it's time to go for a walk, but then his owner says hold on, and he's happy to lay back down and chill, because he likes to walk but he's also old.
@@creedolala6918This is how I took it as well, poor grammie Vhagar needs her naps
Didn’t they discount Vhagar being at Rook’s Rest because they thought Vhagar would logically be defending King’s Landing? There would be no reason for the blacks to think that the greens would send their only powerful defense to siege a small castle rather than defend the capital city.
Someone says that around 40 minutes in
Agreed
Correct
was a bit too suspicious, attacking a small insignificant castle, in broad daylight after they've been careful to only attack during the night?
Yup this was exactly my thought too after seeing Vhagar hiding in the forest. "Sunfyre against Meleys? Bros ded. Oh Vhagars here too huh... Well shit."
Rhaenys knowing her odds were bad against Vhagar but going back in anyway reminded me of Brienne at the end of AFFC. “No chance, and no choice”
Aye, Trve Knight's Cvlt Vnite
The true meaning of heroism
I discovered tonight that I am 100% committed to crying over the death of CGI animals.
Hehehe
The dragons dying was the saddest thing to happen in game of thrones. They don't know any better they're just good boys
like in Avatar
Girl same!! 😢😅😂
I’m sorry but Sunfyre deserved MUCH BETTER 😭😭😭
You just wait 😅
I saw someone suggest that Daemon dreamed of himself with an eyepatch because he couldn’t actually remember what Aemond looked like so he just pictured himself. 😂
To be honest, Vhagar using these sort of "sneak" attacks makes total sense to me. I mean, she is larger than any dragon but that means also slower and way heavier, against a younger faster dragon she cannot hope to get some punches in unless she gets close to them. And she cannot get close to them unless she catches them by surprise. So in S1 she used the clouds as cover and in S2 she hides out of sights behind the cliff/castle.
Think of crocodiles and alligators hiding patiently under the water, waiting for their prey getting close enough, this is what Vhagar reminds me of. In Season 5 of GoT they had this gladiators fight, and the larger heavier guy had to patiently wait for his moment to strike and decapitate his oponent, this kinda is Vhagar.
also i find aegon’s knowledge of high valyrian (or lack thereof) really interesting. he struggles to communicate w aemond in that council meeting, and goes on to command sunfyre in english/common tongue. you’d think that would be an obstacle in his dragon riding (in the season 1 finale, aemond uses a bit of english when he’s trying to control vhagar away from luke and arrax, which you could argue made the situation worse bc vhagar doesn’t understand that language) but from the little we see of sunfyre and aegon, they seem to have a close bond, and sunfyre readily obeys him even tho he’s not using high valyrian. could raise some more stuff up about the dragon/rider bond. (if they’re close enough, the dragon doesn’t necessarily need to understand the rider’s commands to do what they want?? idk. just some ideas)
Vhaghar was born before the conquest, so in her youth, the Targaryens probably only spoke high Valyrian. I imagine the younger dragons were exposed to much more of the common tongue than high valyrian, so they would understand it. That, and you know, magic and stuff.
I think it also goes back to Sunfyre being hatched by Aegon so he's always talked English to sunfyre, while vhagar is hundreds of years old and most dragon riders speak High Valerian
I think for simple things like go faster both human and dragon think it’s good idea to go faster so they can read the tone. Similar to your dog if you get up and start jumping and saying they’re the best. Dog doesn’t understand but he knows we’re having a good time. Or when you grab the leash and they know walk is imminent
@@andrewcosta5001 Vhagar is not "hundreds of years old," but only 181 years old. Maybe only 180 at this point.
It's dumb to say Vhagar didn't understand Aemond when he was trying to stop her tho, he did use english there but he said the same words in valyrian in that exact same moment so she perfectly understood him, just choose to not listen bc she was angry
Everyone: dying and having a horrible time
Daemon: "Sure, witch, I'll drink the nightmare juice, what's the worst that can happen; do the trees have to cry blood btw?"
I swear next episode blud will just go "Fuck the face on the tree? Well, sure, what's the worst that can happen - does it still have to cry blood tho?"
fear and loathing in the isle of faces
Yeah, he doesn't wanna eat the dinner when he arrives in fear of being poisonous but he does drink the witch beverage
@@bobbybos2170
Daemon didn't want to eat because he wanted to be rude, not because he was afraid of the poison. I would be surprised if Daemon didn't drink this potion. Common sense is not part of his character
Maybe daemon will see aegon the conqueror's dream about the long night. And i still believe daemon is still alive after fighting vhaegar.
That drink was laced with Xanax
I think it was pretty heavily mentioned in all three previous episodes that Vhagar would remain in King's Landing as a deterrent and we also saw the blacks assume as much. I dont think they forgot.
That's what makes it a trap. Don't know why everyone is making like it's an issue. The Green purposely did it because it was unexpected.
The blacks were very dumb to not constantly be using all their dragons for scouting and hit and run attacks
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy They have one army to monitor and they did using moondancer. And you cant just randomly start attacking. Rhaenyra only starts accepting violence this episode. All that boils down to her indecisiveness.
Yes, we all read the books.
rhaenyra specifically instructed baela to monitor king's landing two episodes ago, idk how vhagar sneaked her way out. maybe she bribed moondancer
"Vahgar is the size of a Boeing 747 and almost as dangerous for the riders" had me dying lol.
Something about even a terrible person, like Aegon, connecting with another being like with Sunfyre in the manner of a loving owner/caretaker makes you feel more empathy for him than you would expect. He's awful, but knowing he loved his dragon and his dragon loved him makes you feel for him.
Sunfyre had such golden retriever energy & I'm sad about it lol
The actor for Aegon is fantastic and the direction he's being given is great. One of my favorite performances. My other favorite is Rhaenys..rip 😢
The way Vhaegar attacks smaller targets reminds me of how Great White Sharks take out nimble sea lions - a precision one hit knock out ambush from below.
28:01 The Greens previously talked about how they needed to keep Vhaegar close to Kings Landing or it would be too exposed, the Blacks scouted the army and saw no dragons. I think its a bit more understandable than “Dany kinda forgot”
I knew it was coming, but it still hurt to watch. I have to say, any trickle of sympathy I had for Aemond is drying up real fast.
What was he supposed to do?
He had every reason to kill Rhaenys unless you’re talking about him burning his brother
@@D.Rodrigues_18 Oh, no dispute there, it's war. But do you remember that scene in Game of Thrones Season 4, when the Hound and Brienne duel? In that scene I was screaming because I didn't know who to root for and I just wanted them to stop fighting. In Rhaenys/Meleys vs. Aemond/Vhagar, there was none of that, I knew who I wanted to win. (And that also kind of surprised me, because previous to this episode I did feel bad for Aemond. But I guess that goes away now that he's killed someone I like more than him.)
@@BasilHagens He was supposed to die. :(
JK. Sorry, I didn't express myself fully: I'm not saying that he did something bad or irrational from his perspective. I'm just mad that he killed a character I like more than him.
@@YourSmartOlderSisterTrue in hotd the blacks have been made to be a lot more likeable than the greens which makes you have a clear side to support but in GoT this doesn’t really happen we have many different groups which fight against each other but contain protagonists so it’s hard to pick one to support, for example I preferred the starks however Jaime and Tyrion were my favourite characters so I was pretty conflicted
I got a totally different impression of when Malease looked at Rhynese, I got the impression of sadness that she couldn't defeat Vagaar for her, that she gave it her best but couldn't and she was saying sorry
meleys looking back at Rhaenys before losing her life . . . yeah thanks pay for my therapy, showrunners
I've just got some sore throat and a fever. I cant wait to turn on that 22 hours Jon Snow video to listen to while getting high fever hallucinations and constantly rewinding it back and forth due to falling asleep and waking up 15 times a day. What a great time to be alive.
I'm in a similar situation lol. Just sweating and listening
@@FishLunchy get well soon!
wow different parts of the world same situation 😂
@@fazlerabbi2666 we should form old gods weirwood hivemind of sick people watching schwifty with glidus
Can’t believe the Three eyed raven was able to teleport jojen paste into hotd. Truly impressive powers.
Three eyed wasn't born yet
@@nfarotk that’s what he wants you think
@@nfarotk You realize this story has time travel? Right?
@@fletcherw32 only via memories, not physical bodi
Alys calling herself 'a barn owl cursed into human form' and her actress mentioned her character 'might be 400 years old.' Alys has been made a skinchanger and a greenseer. But one that's gone deeper into the weirwood net and become detached.
I loved the look on Crispy's face when he saw exactly what happens when the Dragons Dance. There is a reason Daenon and Aemon are the only ones excited by the prospect. You deserve what happens next.
You do realize there are no utterly villainous people in this story? They are humans with complex traumas and motivations
@@Captain_Insano_nomercythat makes rooting for their downfall all the more exciting. They are responsible for their actions and are not just “villains”We like to see people who do not rise above these traumas and victimhood rather than root for people give in to self interest and war.
This episode made my hype for God’s Eye skyrocket. They included the attaching of the rider to the saddle a thing, so all I could think is they’re definitely planning FAR ahead. Cannot wait for series 3!
Oh, is season 2 over already? Only 4 episodes seems like HBO is cheaping out. I know this show is expensive to make, but only 4 episodes for season 2 is insane no matter what.
I don't believe that's what they meant. Season 2 is likely going to have the traditional 10 episodes. I think they're referring to a timeline in the future for a different show
Season 2 has 8 episodes@@ajwall1
@@ajwall1Its a reference to a latter battle in this war.
@@ajwall1Just 8 episodes, sadly
I verbally said no the entire time. The queen who never was is my queen and she will live on in my heart
Poor Sunfyre.
I bawled my eyes out. I don't think my heart can handle seeing more dragons die and get hurt
Same. Meleys and Rhaenys bond was really amazing to see and heartbreaking to watch end.
Get ready.
@@JonnyAugz haha, noooooo
@@smecclesshwifty8548 The dragons will dance the dragons will die
@@Pepe-nm9vk I'm aware of this
I think it’s kinda obvious that Aemond meant to hit Aegon by his reaction afterwards.
He was terrified and remorseful when he chomped Luke.
When Aemond flamed on to his brother he looked pleased with himself.
He’s so expressive through his eyes. He never even needs to speak. His eyes say everything.
the way i'm on a 4 hour walk rn listening to this. this is peak happiness for me and my therapist will hear about this
Should go for a 2 hour jog, time efficient 😉
glad for you man, i listened to this 4h podcast with so much joy too
Rhaenys is so me, that lady was so done with being alive.
And im so sad. Lowkey my fave character and I knew when she turned back that this was her end ): at least she went out a G
She was great. Always commanded the screen when on it
@@Kyles_Money her actress was amazing! She was so fierce yet empathetic, strong yet sensitive. She really would've been an amazing queen
You're like Rhaenys? Do us all a favour and don't go near crowds of innocent poor people then.
@@HOTD108_ god forbid a girl has fun 🙄
She was suicidal. She should have fled when she had the chance.
Worth noting that the Wine carafe that Ageon knocks over and shatters is decorated with a dragon and colored like Sunfire, and the 2nd “dragon” we see fall to the ground in this episode.
Excellent job by production design on that.
Loving all the symbolism in Harrenhal, the bats for House Whent last week, this episode the Black Goat of Qohor for Vargo Hoat and the three hounds for Ser Gregor Clegane, all of whom met equally grizzly endings after holding the castle briefly.
this
I'm annoyed I didn't put this together lol. I thought the goat but totally didn't connect the hounds or bats
Dude, I missed all of that. Thanks.
Fuck, that's why they included the shot of the three dogs. It all makes sense.
The bats are probably more relevant for House Lothston than House Whent and all the black arts mad Danelle Lothston got up to before her houses demise.
Vhagar is just the sneakiest dragon ever. That's a second stealth kill out of 2
This episode did SO much to highlight the beauty and depth of bonds between dragon and rider. Seeing Sunfyre nuzzling Aegon was so sweet…
Also very much mirrors Cheese’s dog. Someone can be rotten to the core, but still capable of showing tenderness and love and be loved in return.
and meleys‘ last look at rhaenys as they fall to their desth
@@Mirabelle479it was crushing! We see her close her eyes, and the silent devastation of Rhaenys, the way she lets go of her saddle. I knew all of this was coming but nothing could’ve prepared me for how rich and utterly sad this was going to be.
Always enjoyed how Aemond is just Daemon but with the letter d moved to the end of his name 😂
No, Daemon is better cause he actually loves his brother
@@KumarAnshs Daemon is clearly better but Aemond seems within his rights to hate Aegon
Aemond gonna be the man
Also younger … and has done far less bad than Daemon lol
If Daemon was slightly less unhinged, none of this would even be happening lol
47:45 They said in a behind-the-scenes episode that Orwyle’s links are history, poison, the higher mysteries, ravenry and golf.
Only thing wrong with this episode: the writers were too craven to give us Elmo Tully!
Or Kermit. And it would be hilarious cause it’s a detail left out of the books to give Kermit Tully a crakehall wife
@@Ironcorgi2yesssss
@@Ironcorgi2when they do the bloody feasts later on, I want a shot of Oskar covered in viscera as if he's in a trashcan!
It’s quite far, distance from KL to Dragonstone is 400 plus miles by sea, about 10h trip on dragon back. Or 100 miles from DS to sharp point and then 320miles along the coast to KL, travelling on averaging between 7-16knots depending on the length of ship and wind etc
Idk if the show is following official book geography. Possibly not.
@@Gigipretty64 400 miles has no chance being 10h for a dragon to fly. Dragon is going minimum 140-160 miles/h, probably much faster even. Otherwise these giant beasts would just fall out of the sky like a stone. To maintain altitude while being that massive you need a good amount of speed + we have been shown dragons flying many times and they for sure are going much faster than 40 miles/h.
Vhagar slammin her head back down after being told no was so pouty! My dog does that when i tell him we cant play now he just grumbles and puts his head on the floor exactly like vhagar
I totally buy that Daemon *wants* to lose control, and become unstuck from his cycle of awful behaviour. He barely knows what he even wants at this point.
I respect Rhaenys so much. She was dutiful in this entire fight. She could have ran and made her cameo but she stood her air. I just wish the studio stopped using the same trick of Vhagar being a stealth master. Like if I saw this dragon I would keep my eyes on it
Truly, it felt in poor tactic to not have eyes on the biggest dragon threat alive or tread lightly moving forward in the smoke.
Crocodiles use the same tactic, and dragon riders have a giant blind spot beneath their dragon. I think this is a fairly realistic way for vhagar to get the killing blow, but I prefer theatrics to realism
@@ThanatosIRL yeah and its how meleys got the drop on Sunfyre too
@@ThanatosIRL vhagar is definately an exception though given her size, blindspots are only blindspots until half the entire battlefield's size of a dragon appears there
I feel like it makes Vhagar feel like a one trick pony needing to get the drop on a enemy dragon to win the fight when surely her strength and power would mean that when locked into melee with another dragon she’d nearly always come out on top?
The main reason the Blacks had to commit to defending Rook's Rest is because the feudal contract runs both ways.
The vassals swear obeisance to their king, but the king swears to protect and defend them.
Rhaenyra can't just hide in her castle while her supporters are butchered one by one by the Greens. If she wants to do that, she won't have any supporters for long.
Criston Cole’s horse having a “weaponised religion” unicorn horn does have a real-world counterpart in history. The Scottish unicorn was a symbol of power for the monarchy. The king used it as a symbol of having god on their side. The unicorn is generally recognised as being symbolic of Jesus. It may be a stretch to connect the two here, but I thought it worth sharing just because I like it…
Imagine if Vhagar and Sunfyre refused to fight:
"Sunfyre?! You want me to roast SUNFYRE!?! No way, I've watched over that dork from before they hatched! You little mouse things can have one of your shining claw duels instead- I need a nap"
Besides vermithor and silverwing. Most dragons really dont seem to care for eachother much.
Hell they dont even seem to care for their eggs much. I think in terms of family structure they are definitely more lizard than bird.
Vhagar is in so many ways Aemond's id. Imagine how sick and tired she would be of Aegon's shit if she understood even more of human nuance than she probably already does (on some level). She's old and tired and just wants to kill all these annoying people, which is surely how Aemond really feels on the inside, he just doesn't have the outward personality to express it.
Vhagar is so strong and experienced in battle that Rhaenyra knew that she could’ve lost more dragons and heirs. They aren’t experienced enough without Daemon. If Daemon has been there, he and Rhaenys would’ve taken Vhagar out. However, Aemond probably would’ve not attacked Aegon because he would’ve needed the help.
Daemon wanted to go to Kings Landing with Meleyes in the beginning, but she shot that idea down.... sadly a regrettable mistake
After watching that fight, Meleys definitely could have taken vhagar out alone, if not for the sneak attack and previous fight with Sunfyre. Meleys was doing major damage to Vhagar and imo actually won that first exchange with her. If Rhaenys utilised Meleys’s speed and manoeuvrability advantage more she could have been victorious.
@@akeelyaqub2538 Doubt it. Vhagar was taking hits but wasn’t close to being fatally wounded.
@@harifederer watch it again.
@@harifederer Let's say Meleys had a low chance, but a chance nonetheless. It's like a tiger or lion against a big bear. The bear is significantly more likely to win, but it is not a guarantee.
Two interesting things about Aemond. This episode we were reminded he knows High Valyrian while Aegon doesn't. He is seen examining the Catspaw dagger and it isn't red hot so maybe nothing but maybe he read the inscriptions while it was hot.
Also I loved how Vhagar has a consistent strategy in killing dragons. Aemond has the biggest one and yet both against Luke and Rhaenys he attacks from below. I think both were looking around and above for Vhagar but he strikes from below and hidden. The first time was Vhagar, the second time Aemond took notice of how it worked and reproduced it. Good stuff.
Melys also got Sunfyre from below.
@@margotvirzana9943 maybe it's a regular training but I don't know what for exactly, before the Dance. Maybe ancestral Valyrian dragon jousting. In any case, Meleys was considererd the fastest dragon of the time, so ambushing and disengaging is a sensible tactic. The fact that Vhagar does it is, I think, remarkable. It would be like a bear ambushing a wolf and not the other way around, you feel me?
Even Vhagar isn't old enough to have been jousting with dragons in Valyria.
interesting. makes me think the strategy is to abuse that and just go for the rider.
@@Ibbnesvega I'd imagine it's an instinctual thing. Dragons are apex predators and apex predators will always seek the safest and most reliable way to hunt their prey, which 9 times out of 10 is to ambush them.
I also think that Vhagars behaviour from a writing perspective has been inspired by the T-Rex, the largest land predator to ever exist which despite its size was an excellent ambush hunter.
A drunk man’s thoughts are a sober dragon’s words
Seven blessings to you for this comment
I know that the episode was super sad, but as a person who spoiled herself the plot of Fire and Blood I’ve known about Rhaenys for a long time. So the highlight for me was how consistently funny was the first half of the episode. Aegon is officially the goofiest Targaryen we’ve seen on screen, and we’ve seen Viserys III. The green council scene in this episode was comedy gold. Harrenhal was also quite funny. Poor Ser Simon is probably frightened for his life. Imagine that not only he’s under Daemon’s control, Daemon is also loosing his marbles. It’s one thing to serve a violent Targaryen, and another - serve a demented violent Targaryen. Harrenhal staff should unionise or something
LMAOOOOO
I have no problem with what happened in the episode, but I did roll my eyes a little at Vhagar managing to sneak behind the castle for the sneak attack, like they showed how big that dragon is moments ago, but it skittles behind the castle without Rhaeneys or Meleys seeing her.
Really liked Cole trying to talk to the charred soldier.
i was annoyed at this too. there isnt a sound this thing makes that isnt audible a mile away.
Yeah only thing bad about this episode was Vhagar sneak attack and also Rhaeneys being suicidal and not fleeing when she had the chance.
@@gettingbeat was there not a giant cliff face on the other side of that castle that's overlooking the sea?
Rhaenys KiNdA FoRgOt about Vhagar.
They showed signal for Vhaegar with several chains so they probably hid several kilometers away.
This one episode alone was more intense and emotional and better than 4 last seasons of GOT show alone
Too far lol
It wasn’t THAT good
But the last seasons were THAT bad
@@Lonietunes szn 7 bad ... 8 unwatchable
But szn's 5-6 has moments that were better than this imo
You know the good old saying "Show, don't tell" ?
Well god damn, whoever directing those episode is nailing it.
What examples would you say this has?
@@eyeballpaul700 I thought all of Rhaenys's scenes, the "your mother must have been beautiful" and all of her glances/bond with her dragon and her own conveying of information through just her face, were good examples. I felt the same way, quite grateful for the director, cinematography, and good god the actors and the writing!
Daemon tripping balls while at work is something I can really relate to
Dude is afraid of being poisoned + Dude is told by witch he'll die in Harenhall = Dude drinks strange potion from witch in Harenhall
I don’t think Rhaenys was fleeing at all. I think she was doing BDA, and looking for Aemond, waiting for the follow up attack. She just lost track of him. I think she knew she was screwed as soon as she saw Vhaegar, she was just hoping she might take Aemond out on the way.
I really like how lizard-like Vhagar is. The way she lays down flat on the forest floor to stay cool, or the way she shakes the rain off of her head at Storms End. And her neck skin dewlap reminds me of a wise ancient iguana. 😍
Sometimes I feel like we don't recognise just how ridiculously OP Vhagar is. She's not just the oldest and the biggest dragon alive, she's battle hardened. She was bred and used for wars, and she fought and outlived them all. Sure, she's tired, but she's not REtired yet.
I mean this with as much awe as I possibly can, Vhagar is a MONSTER!
My friend asked what we did to deserve this show and I said “exactly what was expected of us, nothing.”
@banquetoftheleviathan1404 lol I forgot how much money I’ve given to HBO
People criticizing how only one dragon was sent fron the Blacks as if George didnt write this years ago and the writers have to be beholden to it and they didnt have an issue with it when they read it.
I always find it funny when people complain about "contrivances" in HOTD. George's books are absolutely chock full of contrivances lmao
George wrote a history book with an unreliable narrator, the writers chose to adapt it as the de facto, real events in a drama show. The history book doesn't tell us why they only sent one dragon, the sources have no way of even knowing, but surely the scene of the actual characters planning their attack would, no? And besides, they've already changed loads of things from the book, saying they had to be beholden to it _now_ is just silly.
Why would they send more than one dragon? They don't know Criston has a dragon with him.
@@marken816folks somehow keep forgetting that
It's crazy that Jace knows the threat from the Targaryen POV *and* from the Stark POV..!
The part of the "behind the episode" where Eve Best said Rhaenys was ultimately the more "expendable" dragon owner - that broke me a little lol. Rhaenys got how things worked more than anyone else, and how to rule well, even if she wasn't the most "of the small folk" in her thinking. Rhaenyra had better have learned well from her advice.
It is a devastating loss for the Blacks. Rhaenys was perhaps the wisest counselor that Rhaenyra had and she is certainly the most experienced dragon rider. Arguably it would have been better to lose Jace than Rhaenys as far is winning the war is concerned
I think that just means she’s very professional and can separate herself from the character enough to know when she would overstay her welcome as a character in time. She understood the assignment. She did a great job and she’s ready to move onto the next. Classy lady. 🥂
@@Mecinimi Rhaneys though Rhanyera meeting with alicent was smart 💀
@@samuelrichards5521 Someone had to justify it, her whole council was turning on her lol.
@@samuelrichards5521 She literally told her to do it first, so...?
As a less successful older brother myself (but with an infinitely better mother) that scene with Alicent and Aegon is the most utterly fucking brutal thing that has happened in the entire series. I know Aegon is a monstrous person but him realizing that he's been given every advantage and still failed to live up to zero expectations is devastating to see.
He’s such a bum
I’m glad they made him a bit more competent this szn before this episodes events
Even Aegons connection with Sunfyre was cool. He gave him a little nudge. Dragons are used to show both sides of Targaryens: love and war
1:04:06 I think the implication of Orwyle’s answer might be that he never discussed it with Viserys because it wasn’t even a question who he wanted his heir to be. He was always so absolutely clear (after the hunt anyways) that Rhaenyra would be his heir, that there was no reason to discuss it with Orwyle broadly speaking.
the introduction of the dragon seat belt was pretty cool.
Rhaenrya’s council doesn’t expect vhagar to be there cause that would leave kings landing undefended
1. Rhaenys couldn't have fought in the Dornish war because she was young and Alyssa Targaryen was still alive.
2. I think they could've argued in the black council that Vhagar could be there but Rhaenys was confident in taking down Vhagar. Ultimately, she lost because she was too busy fighting Sunfyre and got damaged.
3.They could also argue that moondancer can't be there as a support because she's too small and would be a hindrance against Vhagar.
4. They could've shown how Meleys was fast. I was expecting Nightfury/Toothless moves.
But, overall, it was great.
We did not even discuss the fact that the reason Rhaeneys did not leave is that she wanted to defend the castle and its inhabitants..
1 dragon is worth more than 10 castles.
Rhaenys, slayer of innocents in KL, wants to fulfill her objective of protecting Rook's Rest? Preposterous! Like all the other keyboard generals on here, Rhaenys should have just flown away mid battle.
Do you think Helaena likes bugs so much because they’re the only type of creatures she never sees in her visions, since no major houses feature insects as their sigils? They may almost feel sacred by their exclusion. Safe. Like they won’t torment her. Whereas we can see from this season so far that she’s deeply troubled by visions featuring a wide variety of other beasts and birds that feature in the house crests.
That's the best theory I've heard all season!
Lord Beeeeesbury would like a word (RIP)
@@ShubertReads omg thank you it literally just popped into my head while listening to him mention that Helaena was drawing all these things and I was like “it’s weird that she likes bugs so much because she’s tormented by a lot of animal imagery….” and then I realized she wouldn’t see insects within the tormenting imagery, so maybe that’s why she likes ONLY bugs.
@@nhancao4790 ah good point. But I think their sigil is honeypots/hives not bees, right? They’re like rounded medieval Anglo-Saxon style hives? Plus the beesburies aren’t a house central to any of the major visions she seems to be experiences. Lots of rats (Larys), geese (the Cargyll twins), stags, wolves, even a boar (representing king Robert’s death, we can presume). But none of the creepy crawlies she seems to like. Centipedes and spiders and stuff.
You're crazy but I think you're right
That dragon fight gave me an anxiety attack.
Seems like Vhagar is going to win this war all by herself.
The blacks have to gank Vhagar,there’s just no other way.
in true rat dota fashion
Haha vhagar farmed all game@@lauxantilles
If only Balerion was still alive, it’s terrifying to think but even at her current monstrous size, Vhagar is still smaller than Balerion.
There is still Vermithor. Hes smaller than Vhagar but not much.
@@t-rexcellentreviews1663 Vhagar in the Dance is explicitly stated to have reached the size of Balerion in the Book, by the time of the Dance. At least, Balerion during the conquest's size.?
Nearly 4 hours of content 🙌🙌
Just shows how good the Dragon Show is these days, so much to discuss!
Great ep, but how does Vhagar's kaiju looking ass keep pulling off these sneak attacks?
Cause the "p" is silent
The most experienced dragon in fighting battles, so he knows all the tactics
Rhaenys was suicidal.. 😂😂
Yeah for real, rip queen you will be missed… poor melys tho fr
It was kind of Vhaegar to hold Melys’s neck in the perfect position to get one last “goodbye” to its rider instead of just dying. Definitely not cheesy at all.
@@MT-iw6slI wonder if anything makes you happy? Some people just love to hate I guess
@@MT-iw6sl stop bitching
fr why did she even turn back? she won the fight and killed a green dragon and was getting away, there was no point in suicide charging the largest dragon in westeros.
A lot of character that have a link with magic are also having a relationship with an animal in the show ; A rat, a worm, an owl, a frog, a raven, a cat, a salamander, a dragon, etc.
29:15 The Dance of the Dragons reminds me of how eagles fight: Each others talons locked, spinning through the air at high speeds towards the ground... Very graceful, but lethal at the same time!
Well, minus the fire in their case 😅🔥
Isn't that how they mate?
@jindrichdolejs623
They mate in the ground or in their nest, but there is a "courtship dance", which is pretty much goes the same way as how eagles fight (:
Another wonderful episode, I will never forgive the more limited parts of this fanbase if their shitty feedback makes the next season less like this one because I am loving it.
Same, it's going exactly like it needs to, the normies are killing it though. Oh well after the dragon fight they will forget all about the boring people talking a lot
To what shitty feedback are you referring?
I ask because I’m mostly an offline person, I haven’t seen any negative criticism yet
@@leolazari4238 People saying the pace is too slow, or doing a Cinema Sins ding when people in story are imperfect humans.
Do not drunk drive your dragons.
Bro basically got hammered and then jumped into his F-15 Strike Eagle for a little joyride 🤪
I might be reading too far into it but sunfyre’s strut and the chest bump he gave Aegon give him his own personality
I love how dragons fight almost like bald eagles, they lock talons and free fall and it’s almost a test to see who has the most courage, and i love how Vhagar lets go of the red queen so she can properly react and hit the ground on her feet and because the red queen is so light and agile she can recover quickly and fly without damage.
Bran's dream of the sea coming to Winterfell is probably the most accurate in terms of symbology after the Ironborn sacked it.
Melissandra's vision of waking stone dragons is pretty accurate as well as Daenerys's hatches eggs that had been thought stone. Melissandra is just _really_ bad at interpreting what she sees.
Bran doesn't try to interpret his dreams to fit any preconceived ideas. That's the real issue with prophecy everyone reads into them what they want.
@@melissaharris3389 That's actually a really good point to be honest, I never heard anyone explain it like this before and I think you're spot on to be honest, Melissandra would certainly have biases despite being over 100. Whereas Bran is young and innocent, doesn't look too much into it just says it how he sees it etc.
As soon as I heard Alys River's actress say she was a barn owl cursed to live in human form, Dream Academy's "Life in a Northern Town" started playing.
And all at once it hit me, she was She-Wolf in Netflix's criminally underrated series GLOW.
thank you!! i knew i recognised her from somewhere 😅
I was not ready. I knew it was coming. I was NOT ready. I thought I was crushed when Rhaegal was shot down by Euron! And that was dumb and out of no where. The cries of those CGI beasts killed my soul. Sunfyre didn’t deserve that. Meleys went out like a queen but her looking back at Rhaenys…. 😭😭😭😭 I don’t think I’ll rewatch this episode.
"Oysters Clams and Cockles!!" Vhagar makes a beeping sound when backing into a forest
I felt so bad for SPOILERS… Sunfyre ;( it’s like they could tell aegon was just a big baby going through a tough time
A big rapist baby 🥺
ugh such a good episode 10/10😭
RIP Princess Rhaenys, The Queen Who Never Was and the most honorable Targaryen in the history of that insane mad inbred family. She was the one true worthy Queen. 🐉
No. She may have been the least wreckless, the most wisened, and the most sympathetic, but the show still chose to have her needlessly slay hundreds of innocent bystanders when she broke the ground below Aegon's coronation.
Those hundreds of deaths, will affect thousands of small folk, and arguably did as much damage to Raenyra's image as Daemon did when he had a child murdered.
The people aren't going to magically forget being murdered enmasse for doing their duty, which at the time was attending and cherishing their new King's ascension.
Her common folk body count is only rivalled by Dany in GoT. I suppose that's honourable... if you're a Faceless Assassin.
@@HOTD108_ what? you never heard of tywin lannister?
Horrible person, killed thousands of smallfolk without a hint of remorse.
All my homies hate rhaenys, felt a lot sadder for her Dragon to be honest