A testament to just how powerful Seath was even though he did not have the Scales of immortality. He is seen in the cinematic surrounded by a vast number of dragon corpses.
Fairy Mia The dragons you fight are clearly not in their prime, neither is Gwyn. They’re all weakened husks of their former selves. Gwyn has gone hollow, Seathe has gone mad, and the dragons you fight don’t have their scales anymore. Try killing the Stone Dragon in Ash Lake, that would be the closest thing to fighting a true Everlasting Dragon.
@@oldshoes4290 either way your practically an immortal fighter and if u fail the next one comes... eventually one is gonna defeat them maybe one dragon per each undead
I like this Seath being a nerd headcanon :o. "Hey, gimme your lunch money, No-Scales." "Why do you need it? We don't even need to eat!" "Not like _you_ deserve it :D. What're you gonna do, spend it on more snacks while you go study your 'magic' ? " "Hmph! One day, I'm gonna grow up and that magic is gonna have me worshiped like a god! You'll see! _You'll be sorry_!"
The Picassos are interesting though, because they seem to be failures to produce replications of Seath himself; half-breeds, if you will. If the implications are correct, then maybe Priscilla truly is the daughter of Seath and he was either trying to foster a new race of dragon children or even replace Priscilla after she was locked away in the painted world. It's interesting to note that Priscilla uses Invisibility, which is an Oolacile sorcery. Given that she couldn't actually be from Oolacile, it's possible she learnt that spell as a result of Seath collecting up knowledge from ancient Oolacile and teaching his daughter.
OMG I feel the same way! Glad somebody else came to that conclusion. He was trying to create a hybrid I bet he used his DNA and kept through trial and error experimenting with many maidens to create her. It may have been the fire keeper who may also a have been abducted like you said Oolacile I think she was the one to successfully give birth as they are connected more to the first flame making them ildy more fertile I could imagine (we know the the first flame can do :O). You find crossbreed Piscilla's doll in the asylum she may have been killed and sent there or just sent there. Later she was cast into the Painted World of Ariamis , unsure who sent her there it may have been Haval the rock? Another interesting thing is I was about to think it was his daughter's abduction that drove him mad as he had worked so hard to achieve this with the fire keeper who was now dead but then I remembered Big Hat Logan who also went mad so it must of been the obsession with knowledge at the archives.
I wouldn't call him evil. Just selfish. And if we start calling people evil just for being a little selfish... Well... Not sure who'll be left standing at the end of it all.
The clams are a Dragon's favorite food. Everyone knows that, it's science. Seriously though, I think this just took the spot of your Velka video as your best video.
perhaps clams serve dragons and that's why they like hydras... maybe they have created their shells from the scales of the stone dragons. That's how clams work! Its science!
I always thought that Seath had been stealing maidens for the sake of creating female dragons. Female dragons without scales to actually create whole new dragon race without scales.
@@revthescatman137 Prescilla is the only proof of this theory. Seath starting his own scaleless race of dragons sounds pretty fitting for the character. Maybe he just seeks power, betraying the dragons after seeing them as defying progress and inferior, then eventually betray the gods when he creates his perfect dragons.
This video made me realise something. Could it be that Priscilla is a successfull experiment of Seath in collaboration with Velka? It makes sense, as the "failed ones" have Seath like tails and are called Picasas, maybe hinting on Picasso, a famous painter, which might point at Priscilla, who resides in the painted world. It would explain her dragon "ancestry" and her size, as you told in your lore video about her, that she may be the child of a goddess. Her basically kind and gentle personality hints, that she may have been one of Gwynevere's maidens at some point. As far as I can theorise, she was captured, and, through various experiments, turned into a dragon/god hybrid, so she could assist them with her lifehunt ability to overthrow the gods in the occult rebellion. This would also explain, why she is locked away in the painted world together with Velka's various creatures and also why she's called an abomination.
Seeing as how Seath's attacks cause cursing and his servants are all crystallized hollows, I believe he had his servants capture some of the clams to find a cure for his cursing effects and in his efforts, went mad. He knew what he was doing capturing all those maidens and it was probably catching up to him and taking a toll. Screwing around with magic that can curse anything probably hastened his descent into madness. Just look at the grounds in his keep. A beautiful landscape mired by Seath's crystal magic in an enormous crater.
Seath and Logan committed a scientific sin: Self experimentation. Both Seath and Logan pioneered advancements with no ill effects, but when once they experimented on themselves... Only a fool says, "Some things are unknowable". ;D
Science doesn't make moral judgments, so there's no such thing as a "scientific sin". Godel's incompleteness theorem shows that it's likely that there are mathematical questions that we will never know the answer for.
Perhaps Seath was so interested in crystal magic to replace where his scales would be, as see in the lower part of his body which is covered in crystals.
I wonder if there is a link between Havel wearing stone armor and being friends with the everlasting dragon. I think it would make sense that he would wear the armor of his enemies, in that he uses the weapons of them.
Seath is a tribute to King's Field, that's also why he drop Moonlight Sword. :) This also explain the magic part. :p He is well integrated in Dark Souls though. Painted world has a lot of stuff from Demon's Souls. In other words, it seems they have been mixing in other games into the game., but you knew that already :)
It's been more than 2 years since Dark Souls came out...and you still learn something new everyday. Awsm and informative video. This game has by far the best storyline in videogames.
no one has mentioned the phlanix (?) when talking about seath. the experiments he perfprmed on hollows that are left guarding the statue in the painted world...
I always wonder why everyone assumes that the reasone why Seath went mad was becouse of too much knowledge, for me way more appealing is a history in which Seath went insane becouse of his regret. He caused the extinction of the Everlasting dragons (in a way), and after that he is said to be driven mad becouse of his research. What if the purpose of those experiments was not to prolong his own life but to bring back his kin in a way. Then the presence of crossbreed Priscilla in the Painted World of Ariamis have more sense. It may be a way in which Velka punishes Seath for his sins against the maidens or the dragons, by locking his daughter/creation away from him. What do you think guys does any one find this trail of thought appealing to him/her also sorry for any mistakes in the text i am really crappy in writing in english ( i am polish btw), almost as dicky (great word xP) as in crafting lore theories Awww and lastly Dave thanks for a fun lore series, cant wait for you to do one for the witcher xP
+Mateusz Wojdyga What if it was both? He wanted to be immortal, yet also wanted a return of the dragons, or at least a version that are in his image? That way he would be the cool kid.
This is maybe my 4th or 5th lore series and hearing Seath is the 'dragon' of "Vinheim Dragon school" blows my damn mind. Of course he invented sorcerers and made a school for it.
prepare to die alot if you choose to do so my advice pyromacy/sorcery/maricals are the closest things you'll get to a easy mode pick one and get ready to die because you will die hell in dark souls 2 thares a achievement called weclome to dark souls ware you have to die to get it
Seirra Moon forgive the pun but this game's lore is a lot darker than skyrim's. Lots of tragedy, being driven mad by immortality, and sworn enemies. It's also a lot more ambiguous, almost nothing is directly laid at the player's feet.
@@delinkwent7375 “the dragon sided with him” meaning The dragons betrayed his kin you said it.. but Nameless king betrayed his kin for the dragons win win….. Gwyn just salty
Things worthy of mentioning: 1. The Covetous Gold/Silver Serpent Ring says: "The serpent is an imperfect dragon and a symbol of the undead". Seath is also an imperfect dragon, and his henchmen are serpent men. 2. The Serpent men have a body resembling a man, but the head is clearly serpent's. The Pisacas have a lower body that is definitely the body of a serpent, but the head is something entirely else. I think some, maybe not all, Pisacas were either Seath's early experiments of creating the serpent men (this early version failed), or he purposely tried to create a serpent with head of a man, body of a snake, which didn't work. 3. Why are there Serpent men in Sen's Fortress? The Cage Key in Sen's Fortress says that the serpent men lock the victims up, but it's not clear what happens after that, as they "drag the victims off to who-knows-where". Maybe the serpent men take the victims to the Archives?
Seath could be the first undead. In the beginning there was no life or death. Yet seath in the beginning was frail and could DIE!... This means Seath is the true start to the story because he was born and with him disparity.
Seath is my favourite lore character. He is involved in so much every boss and enemy that uses magic stems from him and the influence he has on the duke in ds2 and Ocerios in Ds3
I really like the parallels between Seath And Paarthurnax. Both were dragons who betrayed their kind by teaching the weakness of their brethren to three beings. But differences include Seath being an outcast who betrayed the dragons because he would be rewarded for his efforts. Paarthurnax was Alduin's brother and second in command so he was held in high regard by the other dragons. He betrayed them out of pity for humanity.
This was a great lore video, I actually learned quite a bit from this. As usual, here are some of my thoughts: 1. The fact that the Moonlight Butterfly and the Moonlight Greatsword are associated with Seath supports my theory that the Sun is the source of Miracles and the Moon the source of Sorceries. (And this is linked to my theory about Velka being the Moon Goddess, Gwyn's wife/Gwyndolin's mother -> Gwyndolin's faith catalyst). Reminds me of Nito's miracles. I guess he really did have a good bond with Gwyn. 2. Perhaps the clams draw away the curse that the dragons might be suffering? Or Seath took the clams because he felt homesick? 3. Is it possible for the crystals to be solid souls/a tough layer for souls? The Primordial Crystal could contain a soul (it has a flittering light in the middle). Perhaps Seath's soul, to safeguard it. I personally think that souls are a gaseous form of life, the flames a liquid form of life (you can drink 'estus' - latin for warmth) and therefore the crystals are a solid form of life. If these substances can switch between eachother (which they can: pyromancy takes a part of the soul, and the Lord Souls can ignite the Lordvessel) then it's possible for the soul sorceries to become partially solid, and for the crystal soldiers' souls to become crystallized, and for Seath to slowly become crystallized. I'm glad you mention that there's symbolism behind the Dark Souls lore as a commentary on mankind - finally someone else with this idea :D. Do you think the Age of Dragons symbolises the eternity of the universe and the Age of Fire symbolises the short span of time in which life exists in our universe (ie slowly all energy is disappearing from our planet)?
That's deep. I've pondered over that, especially considering if we were going through an Age of Fire, we would do anything in our power to extend it for as long as possible. But, I tend to go back and forth. When it comes to the ages, a lot of it really reminds me of Greek Mythology, the ancient dragons being akin to the Titans, and the Lords being akin to Zeus and his fellow Gods. (Although, there are also a lot of hinduism ties to the DaS Lore). I know Miyazaki san was inspired by seeing ancient castles in his childhood, and, not knowing its history, dreaming of what may have occurred. So, it strikes me a lot of the combination of those two things. Then again, I feel like artists influences and thoughts are poured out into their work, (just as a writer will have a natural bis), and it's definitely possible he was thinking along those lines when creating the story!
I believe Seath brought the clams with him to the archives. He is using the 2 drops they have for his research on crystal and immortality. His Crystal magic can curse you and the purging stones can remove that curse when he fails to properly crystalize the undead and so he can use them again as testsubjects. The other drop is twinkling titanite which is both used and researched (there is a crystal lizard and the only twinkeling titanite that is an item and not a drop or being sold). Used so he can create crystals. Researched because they are made from a material that also make up Archtrees, made clear by the abundance of crystal lizards inside the Great Hollow. It also seems that the materials of every kind of titanite are also make up the Archtrees, as they are all found in the Great Hollow. Going further on the notion of what titanite and Arch trees are made of, it would seem that the bones of humans can make both white titanite (Bone Towers) and twinkling titanite (Man-eaters/clams).
The reasons for the clams and hydras being in both places is quite simple. Clams are the favorite snacks of dragons and as far as I can tell hydras are born from dragon scales.
i feel really bad for seath he only wanted to be immortal like the other dragons but lost his sanity because of it. he might've even had a oh fuck reaction with the failed experiments.
Little late to the game, but... Isn't it likely that since Seath was born deficient and lacking the immortality of the everlasting dragons, that he would create and utilize sorcery as an outlet to synthesize a substitute for immortality? It's likely he knows about the everlasting dragon in Ash Lake, but chose to salvage other, more plentiful specimens from the everlasting dragons' ecosystem, hence the clams in the Crystal Cave, and the hydra near the Moonlight Butterfly in Darkroot Basin, with the intent of studying them to see if they had similar properties of immortality since they existed in the same ecosystem. It's also obvious that since he's interested in sorceries, he would go looking for even ancient ones, which is why he would look where Oolacile, the ancient land of sorceries once was, and might have hit the jackpot with the captured Dusk. There's also a Dark Souls II lore video that suggests that when Vendrick and Aldia did extensive research on the undead curse in the hopes of finding a cure for it, they had to look at specimens that aren't subject to the cycle of life and death, which includes dragons, and humans inflicted with the undead curse. Humans are a product of the Dark Soul, which is tied to the abyss, which broke out in Oolacile. Since humans, in what could be considered their natural state as fully Hollowed, cannot die, it's not a stretch to think that Seath would be interested in human origin, the Dark Soul, the abyss, and the affects it has on humans, humanity, the undead curse and hollowing, as it somehow exempts those afflicted from death. So far, Seath only had the primordial crystal as an adequate substitute for immortality, and given that Seath can create life to an extent, or at the very least imitate life in the form of animating crystal golems and his experimental Moonlight Butterflies, it's obvious that souls, sorcery and crystal must have similar properties and function, perhaps like the properties of water in the form of a gas, liquid and solid. Souls by themselves are usually harmless as they need vessels to occupy, but sorceries, for the most part, seem to be concentrated amounts of souls used to accomplish a particular purpose depending on the way they are processed through different spells, and crystal sorceries are simply more powerful versions of normal sorceries, so it seems fair to say that crystals are densely concentrated masses of souls, and with whatever link they have with life that Seath seems to be looking for, would be easy conduits for animation and other life imitation forms. With this in mind, it seems clear that life without souls seems vacuous, and that sorcery is an easy way to manipulate souls to influence life, so there must be a way to manipulate souls via sorcery in order to preserve life, perhaps indefinitely, as the primordial crystal apparently does. It's also curious that some sorceries have dark alternatives like Dark Orb and Pursuers, which are essentially the same as sorcery, but seems to manipulate loose humanities, rather than souls - what is the difference between humanity and other souls? why are loose humanities as we see int he Abyssal Chasm apparently dangerous to entities harboring souls? The fact that dark sorceries originating from the spread of the Abyss in Oolacile was clearly a new frontier Seath was trying to break into by having one of his crystal golems bring him the broken pendant, which is the key to somehow unlocking ancient Oolacile, and thus dark sorceries and the source of humanities. Also, all throughout King's Field, the Moonlight Sword is always the remedy for when darkness, death and disease start spreading over a land, so there is also some connection between life and the curative properties of not just the Moonlight Greatsword, but also moonlight in general, as is manifested in his Moonlight Butterflies, moonlight is also a source of life in some way. This has to somehow relate to Gwyndolin, who is clearly the bastard child of Gwyn, god of sunlight, and something moon related, since Gwyndolin is the moon god, and leader of the Darkmoon Covenant, and his boss music is the same as the Moonlight Butterfly. It could be analogous to Gwyn upsetting the balance of nature by kindling the First Flame, the permanent darkness that sets over Anor Londo, where Gwyndolin presides, is the original natural state of the world, hence the grey fog before the Fire sparked, and the only natural light that would occur in darkness, literal or figurative given the spread of the undead curse as a result of Gwyn's sin, would be moonlight, and since it's natural, as opposed to the unnatural light that would result from Gwyn artificially extending his age of fire and being the sun god, it makes sense that moonlight would have curative effects in this context of the world state, and why Seath would be interested in it.
What if Seath the Scaleless is the one who created Mankind? Think about it. He's malformed by Dragon Standards, and because he lacks scales he will die. So, he creates creatures to help him kill all the Dragons, the humans. Maybe Death didn't get a fragment of Gwyns Soul. Maybe all of the Lord Souls are actually Seaths Soul, even the Dark Soul, and he used humans fueled with his soul to conquer the world. Maybe the First Flame is just that, the Dragons Soul.
What I find most interesting is the King's Field connection. In King's Field, there is the presence of crystals that everyone seems crazy about finding. To the player, their significance lies in their ability to be made into Crystal Flasks, capable of drawing water from the Fountain of Recovery - Seath's Fountain(s) (there's two). The art of crafting these was taught to a vendor by a High-Elf named Leon Shore. Seath, the god of the High Elves, had passed the power of working with crystals onto Leon, but in King's FIeld, he no longer makes Flasks. His newest projects are the "Figure of Seath". Crystal statues capable of reviving you when you die, provided you are wearing Seath's Tear, a necklace. Guyra, the Black Dragon of the Forest - who looks identical to Kalameet, barring graphics - is Seath's mortal enemy. In King's Field, Guyra has by his side a man named Necron, who has managed to force nearly every person on the island to mine desperately for these crystals in order to let them survive. These crystals are indeed significant. Most significant is the Dark Crystal, a gift to the High Elf from Seath, from which Leon may craft the sword "the Dark Slayer", which is designed to destroy Guyra. I find it really interesting that Seath is all about those crystals. The Primordial Crystal, allowing artificial immortality. Kind of like the Figure of Seath.
I like to think that it is infact Havel in the watchtower, although I believe that the Havel's Ring desc says that it was given to his followers (can't check atm, on my phone). Also, Havel's gear is found in Anor Londo, which means that there is a lot of conflicting evidence, but this could be meaningless, or an oversight on FromSoftware's part. Anyway, in the desc for the Watchtower Basement Key, we see that Havel was locked up "for his own good, of course". Now, this is very interesting, as the "of course" bit is completely unnecessary. It gives the desc a certain sinister tone. We know that Havel was the sworn enemy of Seath and that Seath had a good relationship with Gwyn (he was made a Duke, after all). We also know that Havel led the occult rebellion (there's a lot of evidence for this). After the rebellion, it may have been Seath who suggested to Gwyn that Havel should be locked up - "for his own good, of course". We see that there are crystal golems guarding the watchtower, suggesting that Seath may be genuinely afraid of Havel escaping (as he would try and exact revenge on his old enemy). Another quick point about Havel is that he attacks the player on sight. Why exactly? You have just given him an opportunity to escape, and yet he tries to kill you. Perhaps he turned hollow? Now, there is no evidence to suggest that he was Undead in the first place, but from the Depths Key desc (I think), it infers quite strongly that you do not need to be born as an Undead. I believe it says something along the lines of "turning Undead". Interesting. Perhaps this is the reason why Havel was locked up. Gwyn (probably belonging to the Way of White) couldn't bare to send his trusted Bishop to the Asylum; so instead, influenced by Seath, locked him up in the watchtower where Seath knew he could easily keep an eye on him. There. *phew* Probably full of holes and mistakes, but there's my rant. The thing I love about DKS lore is that it's all subject to speculation. Love your lore videos, man, keep 'em up!
Maybe Seath feared being the last of his kind and spared the dragon in ash lake, whilst at the same time breaking the dragon, sort of like the "You suffer with me" relationship between Menendez & Woods in Call Of Duty: Black Ops II. Is that too obscure of a reference? Nah, they'll get it.
Personally I think he was the creator of Twinkling Titanite and this creation helped Gwyn defeat the dragons. Seathe wanted scales just like the dragons had so he tried to make scales himself by experimenting on Titanite Slabs. He wanted to use them to reinforce himself like the player would with their equipment and become immortal. He created the Giant Clams as the vessel for them and used a cursed object to give them a will of their own, and that object is the Purging Stones they drop sometimes. He then brought them down to Ash Lake to see if they could survive a punch from the nearby Mushroom Men who hit like a b**ch from hell, and as expected they were utterly pulverized... Seathe knew it was a total failure so he placed them near his area just in case he can improve on them any further. The Crystal Lizards were likely an unintended by-product of Seath's testing which then spread everywhere since you can find them all across Lordran, especially in The Great Hollow nearby. That the ones in The Great Hollow potentially drops an entire Titanite Slab further supports that Seathe used Titanite Slabs for his experiments at Ash Lake, and that they were the very first of the Crystal Lizards. Seathe or the Channelers probably found some of them to their surprise and brought them to Crystal Cave and Duke's Archives for further observation, which are also the only two Crystal Lizards you can find near Anor Londo. This was all likely done very early on in the war since the Giant Blacksmith has Twinkling Titanite in great stock and it reinforces most armors and weapons relating to Anor Londo. Gwyn must have saw the great potential in them after finding a Crystal Lizard, and used them to bolster his armies strength and helped turn the tides in the war against the dragons. This is also why the only character from Anor Londo who barely uses Twinkling Titanite is Havel, who doesn't trust Seathe to save his life.
I didn't know the hydra could jump out of water darn you dark souls always giving me a new reason to go back to that cold, dark, and disgusting place that I love
I haven't played dark souls, I love these lore videos though. I think perhaps Seath became mad because of his own betrayal. Being the last of his kind and immortal, trying to bring back the dragons with his experiments and failing time after time.
Seath The Scaleless. Born from a mutation between two Everlasting Dragons, or is he the first cross breed? Born from an Everlasting Dragon and a Primordial Serpent?
Something hit me after watching again and again this clip. 1) It was stated that Seath is grandfather of sorcery and his creations are in Darkroot. As well as enchanted ember. The only one magic (not fire magic) ember that comes from Oolacile. And the only one found outside of Archives. 2) Then there is Chester who said "Oolacile has brought the Abyss upon itself. Fooled by that toothy serpent, they upturned the grave of primeval man, and incited his ornery wrath." Toothy serpent... first idea is that primordial serpent (likely Kaathe) did it. But... thoothy have other meanings. It's true that Kaathe have big teeth, but Seath also have unique ones - they look more like sharks teeth. Now other thing is I never saw Seath using his teeth, he always cast crystal spells. 4) Next thing is that Havel hated magic and Seath. WAs is becouse of what Dave said? Or maybe it was becouse of something way darker... abyss darker? 5) Covetous rings states that: "The serpent is an imperfect dragon and symbol of the Undead." Seath lacks dragon scales so in some way he is also imperfect. That implies he may be called serpent. To conclude - what if the serpent that led to creation of Manus and spreading of Abyss was Seath? And he became insane after or even during the experimentations on fugitive pygmy?
Anybody else make the connection ? The firekeeper talks of how the dukes archives eventually drove him the dragonmad, the same fate that happened to big hat Logan when he became absorbed in the archives?
I believe crystal golems and other things related to Seath are in Darkroot Garden because of Havel the Rock. He was sworn enemy of Seath and sorcery, gathering everything that could be useful in killing him and creating magic barrier miracles and experienced in killing dragons. I think Seath is scared of Havel as much as he's scared of dying/non-eternal life. I also think Gwyn locked him in the tower for Seath, as his wishes were more important (he was duke and had gwyn's soul shard) than Havel's who maybe was Gwyn's friend and great warrior, but nothing more. Also, great videos Dave. I watched a lot of souls lore videos and I like yours the most. You put light on things that are much harder to notice than the rest.
I always wonder why Seath never speaks. His backstory suggest him a genius, mad, but still a genius. He had to have told Gwyn somehow of the Stone Dragons weakness, whether through physical speech, or a form of telepathy. From what we see of Oceiros, the Consumed King, he's a mad man, and yet in his cutscene, he speaks to you, antagonizing your presence and intentions. We should have expected the same or at the very least something similar from Seath, but he acts like a basic predator. This isn't a result of Hollowing, as that only affects mankind. Seath may be unlike any dragon, but he is no man.
on the Ash Lake monsters; maybe it's a bit of both? Seath brought up clams and brought down hydras or vise versa for both reasons, study one and detour with the other
Been a lurking subb for loong time and now i just feel the need to say that ur lore vids are amazing and make si mutch sense and i wonder If you have patreon?
Something that I don't hear a lot but the experimentation on the maidens could be a mission to create a human dragon hybrid because of his fascination with souls; this could suggest that pricilla was a experiment that had succeeded but Gywndolin sealed her away for fear of what she would represent?
î think its rather seaths ambition with magic that makes him an outsider. His crystal breath is magic as well, so it can be assumed he wasnt as powerful as the other: having no fire breath. resulting in his obsession for other means. his research may have begun before the slaughter of his brethren and thats why maybe he had means and spells that worked against dragons. I think that he had differen mind alltogether. The other dragons seem much less researchers and thinkers than rather rulers and conquerors. i like the approach on the hydras were created by seath because their parts bare resemblence to the picasas it even be possible oolacile scholars consulted seath for help resulting in their light magic. and that maybe he is also the reason the oolacile dungeon looked like prison (much like his own) to experiment on animals and humans, by persuading them that without sacrifices can not be results, making the peacful oolacille harbor a dark secret. when seath went insane they looked for new guidance, in the from of the primordeal serpent, which unlike seath had different intentions and that this culmanted in oolaciles downfall
Seath could be the first undead. In the beginning there was no life or death. Yet seath in the beginning was frail and could DIE!... This means Seath is the true start to the story because he was born and with him disparity.
4:57 whoah....the Snatchers? As in the Death Dealers in Bloodborne? They travel to far lands (as in Yarn'ham) to obtain maidens. Hmmmm...lots of that in Bloodborne.
Despondencymusic from software actually do alot of reoccurring themes in all their games. it actually seems like theyve been remaking the same game since their first game, and their just trying to make it better and better each remake.
The more lore I hear of Seath the Scaleless the more I think he would be considered a drake. If I remember correctly there's a text that said that imperfect dragons were called drakes and Seath has no scales making him imperfect. Just a thought.
Sheri Sipsis Honestly no one knows. Snakes are imperfect dragons we know that from the serpent rings but drakes are also lesser dragons. Seath seems to be a full dragon without the stone scales, which makes some kind of sense since there has some to be something beneath their scales. I'm pretty sure the Picasas (the serpent abominations) are seath's attempts to make dragons that were imperfect and resulted in serpents. Generally just go with the flow and accept Seath was not normal in any way whatsoever.
It's a possibility that Havel went to Ash Lake to college the materials for his armor and even came up with a means to combating Seeth by coming up with the Miracle. A way he could've come to terms with this information is that he "could have" spoken to the Ancient Stone Dragon who wanted revenge against Seeth as well for his fallen brothers. This further leads to Havel's role in the Occult rebellion as he stows away his belongings in the basement in anor lando. He may have attempted to face Seeth, which proved useless since Seeth was immortal. He stole some forbidden books during his retreat and sent these to the catacombs for Pinwheel to decipher a way to end Seeth's immortality. Havel with then wait in the basement of the tower where you find him until he learns the means to bring down Seeth. Mostly about Havel instead of Seeth, but that's all I got as far as Ash Lake relations go.
well if Seath did visit Ash lake to drop some of his creations to protect the ancient dragon it would make sense that Havel would hate him as to Havel he is protecting a dragon and thus a traitor to Havel.
I guess it's also interesting to note that the only other Blue Slab you can pick up is in the Royal Wood. The Royal Wood, of course, looks like Darkroot Garden, where you can pick up the Enchanted Ember.
I think its pretty cool that you share other Dark Souls Lore buffs :b like Vaati and TerraMantis and Silver Mont etc :b It's a shame they don't all do that either :c
My thoughts on this: The Primordial Crystal can be used as a container for souls, which effectively makes Seath a sort of Lich. Logan *did* say that Seath was a "true undead," unlike those who bear the Darksign. The real question is, where did the crystal come from? Being "primordial" and a "sacred treasure", it could have been a natural phenomenon like the everlasting dragons; it was simply there from the beginning. Then again, it could have been an ancient meteorite or some malarkey like that. Anyway, Sesth's research was heavily focused on souls and immortality. Given that he captured a fire keeper and made a bonfire, it is possible that he was exploring how to achieve the quasi-immortality of the Undead, whic could mean that he may have discovered the fact that being Hollow is simply the natural state of all non-dragons- that is to say that they are truly hollow, empty containers who have always existed to eventually bear a soul from the First Flame. The knowledge that drove him mad could have been the nature of the Dark Souls universe itself, or maybe it was an inability to find some perfect means of becoming immortal thst drove him to madness. ...or maybe he just broke the fourth wall and completely lost it. We'll never know.
I think that the pisacas are Seaths attempts at impregnating a mortal so he can have a baby. Notice how he only captures maidens for his experiments and that they are referred to as mistakes. I believe that the body of the pisacas are the maidens but the octopus like head is the baby which is the actual pisaca that is possessing the maiden. This may be drawn from an anime about demons where there are demons that posess people called pisaca they too are octopus like. As you may notice he also chose undead for this role which could indicate that he wishes the pisacas to stay attached to the host endlessly without them going on to posess other creatures. After these many "test subjects" seath decided that he would chose a different partner that would be capable of having his child this was probably a God of some sort matching right up with the Guinivere theory and the result of this was the crossbreed Priscilla. A interesting thing about this theory is that as it says that seath went mad because of his research which means that seath could have gone mad after a pisaca possessing him. Another possibility is that he was possessed by the first ever pisaca at birth notice the strange head, tail, and possibly the reason for no scales and it just took a while for the pisaca to take complete control of him because as a dragon he is very resistant. If you have any holes in my theory reply to comment and I will look into them.
i think that the everlasting dragon is somewhat seaths friend/brother this explains why havel's gmb is there cause he wants to kill seaths friend/brother and explains why the ancient dragon in dks2 has the old paledrake soul cause its the everlasting himself
Somewhere, while wondering the net, someone mentionned that Havel was the uncle of rhea...when she turned undead...he started the rebellion because he was under the impression that the curse had been created by the gods. Just a theory to think on. As for the ash lake thing...i think that the hydra and the clams are just some of seath's experiments. I think he planted them down there, not to make sure no one finds THE ancient dragon, but AN ancient dragon. Maybe was he so afraid that one of his kind remained alive that he planted defenses to make sure this secret would remain hidden for ever.
When he was still mortal, Seath must have been after the dragon scales that the hydras drop. "A dragon is inseparable from its scales, and the transcendent apostles, who seek the perpetuity of the ancient dragons, have crossed the very end of the earth to seek this invaluable treasure."
5:10 Remember the cleric knight near the elevators, Petrous of Thorolund? After the point at which Rhea disappears, Petrous drops an Ivory Talisman when killed, described as being only for female clerics. It may be a coincidence that the Maiden set is in the Archives, as there were many other maidens captured. (I've never gotten the Maiden set there...) After Rhea disappears, Petrous's dialogue continues to express that he doesn't know where Rhea is, and remorse for losing track of her. If she was snatched, perhaps Petrous only happened upon the talisman by chance. My guess, though, would be that Petrous has killed her and is pretending to be innocent. Perhaps Petrous is secretly a heretic.
Perhaps Gwyndolin is actually a creation of seaths to watch over Anor Londo in the absence of the gods, thus not being a legitimate son of gwyn. Which would explain his serpent legs and his association with the moon and women like alot of seaths creations.
so. good. I'll look into some psychology to see if I can get some good basis for character motivations (seath's motivation seems pretty straightforward though). item discriptions from some mircles and some occult stuff seem to indicate both that havel and gywn were old war buddies and that he may have been a part of the occult uprising that tried to take down gywn. I would speculate that havel, who took part in the war against the dragons, may have been against a dragon being allowed to be part of gywn's kingdom (much less a duke [which would likely be a higher position than havel has]). item descriptions also seem to suggest that havel may have been imprisoned in the tower by orders of gywn (or gywn himself). which would also suppot that havel took part in a conspiracy to take down gywn's kingdom. just a theory.
Oolaciles sorceries are more like physics, because it manipulates how light and matter interact with the environment. Seath was studying the soul which is far different from Oolaciles studies. So I think Seath went mad trying to comprehend these sorceries which I think were completely abstract to him as he was an expert in souls and creation, but not in very mechanics of the world.
Dark Souls has to be the first work of fiction to depict a dragon as a mad scientist.
Actually Magic: The Gathering did it with Niv-Mizzet.
Actually World of Warcraft, with Nefarian in Blackwing Lair
@@bucksley5329 lol pretty sure this is a much older trope than WoW
@@damiester1 it's just not used too often
@@damiester1 and? WoW predates dark souls by several years
Seath's rage roar in the beginning always gives me goose bumps
Ikr?! There's just... something about it, that when one hears it, it instantly sends chills don one's spine.
its like 5% sad, 45% celebration and 50% rage/ exasperation.
A testament to just how powerful Seath was even though he did not have the Scales of immortality. He is seen in the cinematic surrounded by a vast number of dragon corpses.
But we kill him easily :/
@@septianrico4141 You kill several dragons through the game. You kill lord gwyn bitch. Seath is nothing, no legs, no scales, no chance.
Fairy Mia The dragons you fight are clearly not in their prime, neither is Gwyn. They’re all weakened husks of their former selves.
Gwyn has gone hollow, Seathe has gone mad, and the dragons you fight don’t have their scales anymore. Try killing the Stone Dragon in Ash Lake, that would be the closest thing to fighting a true Everlasting Dragon.
@@oldshoes4290 either way your practically an immortal fighter and if u fail the next one comes... eventually one is gonna defeat them maybe one dragon per each undead
Fairy Mia That’s true, I’m just saying that the Dragons and Lords we fight weren’t originally weaklings.
Wow, I never noticed those two piscaras crying in the back. This is some serious attention to detail. I never actually saw them crying.
I like this Seath being a nerd headcanon :o.
"Hey, gimme your lunch money, No-Scales."
"Why do you need it? We don't even need to eat!"
"Not like _you_ deserve it :D. What're you gonna do, spend it on more snacks while you go study your 'magic' ? "
"Hmph! One day, I'm gonna grow up and that magic is gonna have me worshiped like a god! You'll see! _You'll be sorry_!"
no scales, no eyes, no chance.
Cielo Pachirisu bully dragons: ha bitch ain’t even got legs and he’s threatening us maybe in another life time no-scales
Hector Beck
“My friend Gwyn could totally beat you all up, you’ll see!”
Yes, he's the dude with the red stapler of Office Space, but dragon
*All the bully rooks, with their buck-skin boots. Best ye go, best he go, outrun soul arrow-*
The Picassos are interesting though, because they seem to be failures to produce replications of Seath himself; half-breeds, if you will. If the implications are correct, then maybe Priscilla truly is the daughter of Seath and he was either trying to foster a new race of dragon children or even replace Priscilla after she was locked away in the painted world. It's interesting to note that Priscilla uses Invisibility, which is an Oolacile sorcery. Given that she couldn't actually be from Oolacile, it's possible she learnt that spell as a result of Seath collecting up knowledge from ancient Oolacile and teaching his daughter.
OMG I feel the same way! Glad somebody else came to that conclusion.
He was trying to create a hybrid I bet he used his DNA and kept through trial and error experimenting with many maidens to create her. It may have been the fire keeper who may also a have been abducted like you said Oolacile I think she was the one to successfully give birth as they are connected more to the first flame making them ildy more fertile I could imagine (we know the the first flame can do :O).
You find crossbreed Piscilla's doll in the asylum she may have been killed and sent there or just sent there. Later she was cast into the Painted World of Ariamis , unsure who sent her there it may have been Haval the rock?
Another interesting thing is I was about to think it was his daughter's abduction that drove him mad as he had worked so hard to achieve this with the fire keeper who was now dead but then I remembered Big Hat Logan who also went mad so it must of been the obsession with knowledge at the archives.
Seath could surely transform and could have seduced Gwynevere or Filianore(protecting an egg)
Seath may be crazy and evil, but he is an adorable dragon :D
Definitely doesn't look frightening as all hell like the stone dragons from the intro.
I wouldn't call him evil. Just selfish. And if we start calling people evil just for being a little selfish... Well... Not sure who'll be left standing at the end of it all.
Dylan Van Zant I think that's a great point. His actions are driven by greed, and possibly an inferiority complex.
I agree wholeheartedly with that interpretation. =3
Dylan Van Zant seath is actually like all human,fear of death lead toward madness
The clams are a Dragon's favorite food. Everyone knows that, it's science.
Seriously though, I think this just took the spot of your Velka video as your best video.
perhaps clams serve dragons and that's why they like hydras... maybe they have created their shells from the scales of the stone dragons. That's how clams work! Its science!
The more i watch these videos , the more i love and appreciate the game. Thanks
SAME
But why does Seath have no legs? That's what I wanna know
He's scaleless
No my bad
+Tomas Salcedo that make sense
it was an experiment gone wrong I think
+Gabriel Perez he is also skillless
I always thought that Seath had been stealing maidens for the sake of creating female dragons. Female dragons without scales to actually create whole new dragon race without scales.
Wouldn’t that just create Half-breeds such as Priscilla?
@@revthescatman137 ++
@@revthescatman137 Prescilla is the only proof of this theory. Seath starting his own scaleless race of dragons sounds pretty fitting for the character. Maybe he just seeks power, betraying the dragons after seeing them as defying progress and inferior, then eventually betray the gods when he creates his perfect dragons.
@@BBoy4040 I always thought Seath did this because he believed that the key to immortality would be found in the fertility of women.
And on top of that this absolute player banged Gwynevere
This video made me realise something. Could it be that Priscilla is a successfull experiment of Seath in collaboration with Velka? It makes sense, as the "failed ones" have Seath like tails and are called Picasas, maybe hinting on Picasso, a famous painter, which might point at Priscilla, who resides in the painted world. It would explain her dragon "ancestry" and her size, as you told in your lore video about her, that she may be the child of a goddess. Her basically kind and gentle personality hints, that she may have been one of Gwynevere's maidens at some point. As far as I can theorise, she was captured, and, through various experiments, turned into a dragon/god hybrid, so she could assist them with her lifehunt ability to overthrow the gods in the occult rebellion. This would also explain, why she is locked away in the painted world together with Velka's various creatures and also why she's called an abomination.
Seeing as how Seath's attacks cause cursing and his servants are all crystallized hollows, I believe he had his servants capture some of the clams to find a cure for his cursing effects and in his efforts, went mad. He knew what he was doing capturing all those maidens and it was probably catching up to him and taking a toll. Screwing around with magic that can curse anything probably hastened his descent into madness. Just look at the grounds in his keep. A beautiful landscape mired by Seath's crystal magic in an enormous crater.
Seath and Logan committed a scientific sin: Self experimentation.
Both Seath and Logan pioneered advancements with no ill effects, but when once they experimented on themselves...
Only a fool says, "Some things are unknowable". ;D
Totally agree. Only dumb people fear knowledge.
Science doesn't make moral judgments, so there's no such thing as a "scientific sin".
Godel's incompleteness theorem shows that it's likely that there are mathematical questions that we will never know the answer for.
Perhaps Seath was so interested in crystal magic to replace where his scales would be, as see in the lower part of his body which is covered in crystals.
One other person went mad like Seathe during to knowledge, Big Hat Logan.
due* to
I wonder if there is a link between Havel wearing stone armor and being friends with the everlasting dragon. I think it would make sense that he would wear the armor of his enemies, in that he uses the weapons of them.
Seath is a tribute to King's Field, that's also why he drop Moonlight Sword. :) This also explain the magic part. :p He is well integrated in Dark Souls though. Painted world has a lot of stuff from Demon's Souls. In other words, it seems they have been mixing in other games into the game., but you knew that already :)
It's been more than 2 years since Dark Souls came out...and you still learn something new everyday. Awsm and informative video. This game has by far the best storyline in videogames.
One thing I didnt get. He doesn't have eyes, so why THE FUCK DOES HE NEED A LIBRARY THAT BIG!!
+A Derp ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡ °)
You need the place for, like, one word to fit one Braille letter in. Your regular science books suddenly become a huge library.
relax he doesn't need them anymore he has the Kindle bonfire. with a free membership of audible.com
Jokes aside he uses the channelers as his eyes to read the books.
there's also speculation that he created a sorcery that lets him see, like magic eyes
lol his books are in braille!!!
The Thing I Know About Seath is That He Was A Special one
The dragons are no more
* Missed bout a half dozen or so *
no one has mentioned the phlanix (?) when talking about seath. the experiments he perfprmed on hollows that are left guarding the statue in the painted world...
I always wonder why everyone assumes that the reasone why Seath went mad was becouse of too much knowledge, for me way more appealing is a history in which Seath went insane becouse of his regret. He caused the extinction of the Everlasting dragons (in a way), and after that he is said to be driven mad becouse of his research. What if the purpose of those experiments was not to prolong his own life but to bring back his kin in a way. Then the presence of crossbreed Priscilla in the Painted World of Ariamis have more sense. It may be a way in which Velka punishes Seath for his sins against the maidens or the dragons, by locking his daughter/creation away from him. What do you think guys does any one find this trail of thought appealing to him/her also sorry for any mistakes in the text i am really crappy in writing in english ( i am polish btw), almost as dicky (great word xP) as in crafting lore theories
Awww and lastly Dave thanks for a fun lore series, cant wait for you to do one for the witcher xP
That story would actually make more sense than the one in this video ^_^
+Mateusz Wojdyga I would disagree because ... Logan went mad as well while reading Seathe's books.
+Mateusz Wojdyga I doubt it. Seath has no reason to love the other dragons, since they bullied him so much.
+Mateusz Wojdyga What if it was both? He wanted to be immortal, yet also wanted a return of the dragons, or at least a version that are in his image? That way he would be the cool kid.
It's an interesting theory, but Big Hat Logan going insane from the knowledge he obtains in Seath's library contradicts it.
This is maybe my 4th or 5th lore series and hearing Seath is the 'dragon' of "Vinheim Dragon school" blows my damn mind. Of course he invented sorcerers and made a school for it.
while i havent ever played darksouls these lore videos are making me whant to play it
and they remind me alot of skyrims lore
Seirra Moon Glad to hear that. :)
prepare to die alot if you choose to do so my advice pyromacy/sorcery/maricals are the closest things you'll get to a easy mode pick one and get ready to die because you will die hell in dark souls 2 thares a achievement called weclome to dark souls ware you have to die to get it
for some reason from these comment i feel like skyrim could be an estranged younger cousin to dark souls
Seirra Moon skyrim is a joke compared to this game bro
Seirra Moon forgive the pun but this game's lore is a lot darker than skyrim's. Lots of tragedy, being driven mad by immortality, and sworn enemies.
It's also a lot more ambiguous, almost nothing is directly laid at the player's feet.
I love these lore videos
So lemme get this straight... Gwyn sided with a dragon it’s fine but his son did it and he hates him?
The fucking AUDACITY‼️
The dragon sided with him then they went their separate ways thats pretty different
@@delinkwent7375 “the dragon sided with him” meaning The dragons betrayed his kin you said it.. but Nameless king betrayed his kin for the dragons win win….. Gwyn just salty
i have to say man, your videos are awesome. I never looked at Ash Lake and thought of the correlation. Very cool!
Thank you so much! I put a lot of work into these, so it's appreciated!
watching this made me wish twice as much that seath's boss fight wasn't so terrible
I believe one of the maidens which Seath used to experiment on was someone close to Havel, a possibility of why Havel wants to kill Seath.
Axelmorph maybe havel had a wife?
Axelmorph i killed havel and then took his shit... now i use a dragon dildo to kill seath
Havel wanted to beat down in Seath because he saw the things he did to the maidens
Things worthy of mentioning:
1. The Covetous Gold/Silver Serpent Ring says: "The serpent is an imperfect dragon and a symbol of the undead".
Seath is also an imperfect dragon, and his henchmen are serpent men.
2. The Serpent men have a body resembling a man, but the head is clearly serpent's. The Pisacas have a lower body that is definitely the body of a serpent, but the head is something entirely else. I think some, maybe not all, Pisacas were either Seath's early experiments of creating the serpent men (this early version failed), or he purposely tried to create a serpent with head of a man, body of a snake, which didn't work.
3. Why are there Serpent men in Sen's Fortress? The Cage Key in Sen's Fortress says that the serpent men lock the victims up, but it's not clear what happens after that, as they "drag the victims off to who-knows-where". Maybe the serpent men take the victims to the Archives?
Seath could be the first undead. In the beginning there was no life or death. Yet seath in the beginning was frail and could DIE!... This means Seath is the true start to the story because he was born and with him disparity.
@@cullysloy2705 isnt nito the first undead
@@bradleybaker976 Actually yeah we don't know if Seath is older than Nito. But you are right.
He’s also much more slippery and serpentine than the other dragons
Lol at Dusk's drastic change in voice pitch following the DLC. I guess being kidnapped aged her, like, ten years.
I wonder how many people played Dark Souls and said "DUDE IT'S SEATH FROM KINGS FIELD AGAIN?"
Seath is my favourite lore character. He is involved in so much every boss and enemy that uses magic stems from him and the influence he has on the duke in ds2 and Ocerios in Ds3
So it's a shame the boss fight was so terrible although I love the setting and visual design
I really like the parallels between Seath And Paarthurnax.
Both were dragons who betrayed their kind by teaching the weakness of their brethren
to three beings.
But differences include Seath being an outcast who betrayed the dragons because he would be rewarded for his efforts.
Paarthurnax was Alduin's brother and second in command so he was held in high regard by the other dragons. He betrayed them out of pity for humanity.
thank you this helped me with my thesis project
This was a great lore video, I actually learned quite a bit from this. As usual, here are some of my thoughts:
1. The fact that the Moonlight Butterfly and the Moonlight Greatsword are associated with Seath supports my theory that the Sun is the source of Miracles and the Moon the source of Sorceries. (And this is linked to my theory about Velka being the Moon Goddess, Gwyn's wife/Gwyndolin's mother -> Gwyndolin's faith catalyst). Reminds me of Nito's miracles. I guess he really did have a good bond with Gwyn.
2. Perhaps the clams draw away the curse that the dragons might be suffering? Or Seath took the clams because he felt homesick?
3. Is it possible for the crystals to be solid souls/a tough layer for souls? The Primordial Crystal could contain a soul (it has a flittering light in the middle). Perhaps Seath's soul, to safeguard it.
I personally think that souls are a gaseous form of life, the flames a liquid form of life (you can drink 'estus' - latin for warmth) and therefore the crystals are a solid form of life. If these substances can switch between eachother (which they can: pyromancy takes a part of the soul, and the Lord Souls can ignite the Lordvessel) then it's possible for the soul sorceries to become partially solid, and for the crystal soldiers' souls to become crystallized, and for Seath to slowly become crystallized.
I'm glad you mention that there's symbolism behind the Dark Souls lore as a commentary on mankind - finally someone else with this idea :D. Do you think the Age of Dragons symbolises the eternity of the universe and the Age of Fire symbolises the short span of time in which life exists in our universe (ie slowly all energy is disappearing from our planet)?
That's deep.
I've pondered over that, especially considering if we were going through an Age of Fire, we would do anything in our power to extend it for as long as possible.
But, I tend to go back and forth. When it comes to the ages, a lot of it really reminds me of Greek Mythology, the ancient dragons being akin to the Titans, and the Lords being akin to Zeus and his fellow Gods. (Although, there are also a lot of hinduism ties to the DaS Lore). I know Miyazaki san was inspired by seeing ancient castles in his childhood, and, not knowing its history, dreaming of what may have occurred. So, it strikes me a lot of the combination of those two things.
Then again, I feel like artists influences and thoughts are poured out into their work, (just as a writer will have a natural bis), and it's definitely possible he was thinking along those lines when creating the story!
These videos make for lovely listening while I work. Many thanks for sharing these!
Few people made videos about Seath. At least until now, that is. Great video.
I believe Seath brought the clams with him to the archives. He is using the 2 drops they have for his research on crystal and immortality. His Crystal magic can curse you and the purging stones can remove that curse when he fails to properly crystalize the undead and so he can use them again as testsubjects. The other drop is twinkling titanite which is both used and researched (there is a crystal lizard and the only twinkeling titanite that is an item and not a drop or being sold). Used so he can create crystals. Researched because they are made from a material that also make up Archtrees, made clear by the abundance of crystal lizards inside the Great Hollow. It also seems that the materials of every kind of titanite are also make up the Archtrees, as they are all found in the Great Hollow. Going further on the notion of what titanite and Arch trees are made of, it would seem that the bones of humans can make both white titanite (Bone Towers) and twinkling titanite (Man-eaters/clams).
The reasons for the clams and hydras being in both places is quite simple. Clams are the favorite snacks of dragons and as far as I can tell hydras are born from dragon scales.
i feel really bad for seath he only wanted to be immortal like the other dragons
but lost his sanity because of it.
he might've even had a oh fuck reaction with the failed experiments.
Little late to the game, but...
Isn't it likely that since Seath was born deficient and lacking the immortality of the everlasting dragons, that he would create and utilize sorcery as an outlet to synthesize a substitute for immortality? It's likely he knows about the everlasting dragon in Ash Lake, but chose to salvage other, more plentiful specimens from the everlasting dragons' ecosystem, hence the clams in the Crystal Cave, and the hydra near the Moonlight Butterfly in Darkroot Basin, with the intent of studying them to see if they had similar properties of immortality since they existed in the same ecosystem. It's also obvious that since he's interested in sorceries, he would go looking for even ancient ones, which is why he would look where Oolacile, the ancient land of sorceries once was, and might have hit the jackpot with the captured Dusk. There's also a Dark Souls II lore video that suggests that when Vendrick and Aldia did extensive research on the undead curse in the hopes of finding a cure for it, they had to look at specimens that aren't subject to the cycle of life and death, which includes dragons, and humans inflicted with the undead curse. Humans are a product of the Dark Soul, which is tied to the abyss, which broke out in Oolacile. Since humans, in what could be considered their natural state as fully Hollowed, cannot die, it's not a stretch to think that Seath would be interested in human origin, the Dark Soul, the abyss, and the affects it has on humans, humanity, the undead curse and hollowing, as it somehow exempts those afflicted from death. So far, Seath only had the primordial crystal as an adequate substitute for immortality, and given that Seath can create life to an extent, or at the very least imitate life in the form of animating crystal golems and his experimental Moonlight Butterflies, it's obvious that souls, sorcery and crystal must have similar properties and function, perhaps like the properties of water in the form of a gas, liquid and solid. Souls by themselves are usually harmless as they need vessels to occupy, but sorceries, for the most part, seem to be concentrated amounts of souls used to accomplish a particular purpose depending on the way they are processed through different spells, and crystal sorceries are simply more powerful versions of normal sorceries, so it seems fair to say that crystals are densely concentrated masses of souls, and with whatever link they have with life that Seath seems to be looking for, would be easy conduits for animation and other life imitation forms. With this in mind, it seems clear that life without souls seems vacuous, and that sorcery is an easy way to manipulate souls to influence life, so there must be a way to manipulate souls via sorcery in order to preserve life, perhaps indefinitely, as the primordial crystal apparently does. It's also curious that some sorceries have dark alternatives like Dark Orb and Pursuers, which are essentially the same as sorcery, but seems to manipulate loose humanities, rather than souls - what is the difference between humanity and other souls? why are loose humanities as we see int he Abyssal Chasm apparently dangerous to entities harboring souls? The fact that dark sorceries originating from the spread of the Abyss in Oolacile was clearly a new frontier Seath was trying to break into by having one of his crystal golems bring him the broken pendant, which is the key to somehow unlocking ancient Oolacile, and thus dark sorceries and the source of humanities. Also, all throughout King's Field, the Moonlight Sword is always the remedy for when darkness, death and disease start spreading over a land, so there is also some connection between life and the curative properties of not just the Moonlight Greatsword, but also moonlight in general, as is manifested in his Moonlight Butterflies, moonlight is also a source of life in some way. This has to somehow relate to Gwyndolin, who is clearly the bastard child of Gwyn, god of sunlight, and something moon related, since Gwyndolin is the moon god, and leader of the Darkmoon Covenant, and his boss music is the same as the Moonlight Butterfly. It could be analogous to Gwyn upsetting the balance of nature by kindling the First Flame, the permanent darkness that sets over Anor Londo, where Gwyndolin presides, is the original natural state of the world, hence the grey fog before the Fire sparked, and the only natural light that would occur in darkness, literal or figurative given the spread of the undead curse as a result of Gwyn's sin, would be moonlight, and since it's natural, as opposed to the unnatural light that would result from Gwyn artificially extending his age of fire and being the sun god, it makes sense that moonlight would have curative effects in this context of the world state, and why Seath would be interested in it.
This video blew my mind repeatedly towards the end.
What if Seath the Scaleless is the one who created Mankind? Think about it. He's malformed by Dragon Standards, and because he lacks scales he will die. So, he creates creatures to help him kill all the Dragons, the humans.
Maybe Death didn't get a fragment of Gwyns Soul. Maybe all of the Lord Souls are actually Seaths Soul, even the Dark Soul, and he used humans fueled with his soul to conquer the world. Maybe the First Flame is just that, the Dragons Soul.
Great video, thanks for all of your stuff.
What I find most interesting is the King's Field connection. In King's Field, there is the presence of crystals that everyone seems crazy about finding. To the player, their significance lies in their ability to be made into Crystal Flasks, capable of drawing water from the Fountain of Recovery - Seath's Fountain(s) (there's two). The art of crafting these was taught to a vendor by a High-Elf named Leon Shore. Seath, the god of the High Elves, had passed the power of working with crystals onto Leon, but in King's FIeld, he no longer makes Flasks. His newest projects are the "Figure of Seath". Crystal statues capable of reviving you when you die, provided you are wearing Seath's Tear, a necklace.
Guyra, the Black Dragon of the Forest - who looks identical to Kalameet, barring graphics - is Seath's mortal enemy. In King's Field, Guyra has by his side a man named Necron, who has managed to force nearly every person on the island to mine desperately for these crystals in order to let them survive. These crystals are indeed significant. Most significant is the Dark Crystal, a gift to the High Elf from Seath, from which Leon may craft the sword "the Dark Slayer", which is designed to destroy Guyra.
I find it really interesting that Seath is all about those crystals. The Primordial Crystal, allowing artificial immortality. Kind of like the Figure of Seath.
I like to think that it is infact Havel in the watchtower, although I believe that the Havel's Ring desc says that it was given to his followers (can't check atm, on my phone). Also, Havel's gear is found in Anor Londo, which means that there is a lot of conflicting evidence, but this could be meaningless, or an oversight on FromSoftware's part. Anyway, in the desc for the Watchtower Basement Key, we see that Havel was locked up "for his own good, of course". Now, this is very interesting, as the "of course" bit is completely unnecessary. It gives the desc a certain sinister tone. We know that Havel was the sworn enemy of Seath and that Seath had a good relationship with Gwyn (he was made a Duke, after all). We also know that Havel led the occult rebellion (there's a lot of evidence for this). After the rebellion, it may have been Seath who suggested to Gwyn that Havel should be locked up - "for his own good, of course". We see that there are crystal golems guarding the watchtower, suggesting that Seath may be genuinely afraid of Havel escaping (as he would try and exact revenge on his old enemy). Another quick point about Havel is that he attacks the player on sight. Why exactly? You have just given him an opportunity to escape, and yet he tries to kill you. Perhaps he turned hollow? Now, there is no evidence to suggest that he was Undead in the first place, but from the Depths Key desc (I think), it infers quite strongly that you do not need to be born as an Undead. I believe it says something along the lines of "turning Undead". Interesting. Perhaps this is the reason why Havel was locked up. Gwyn (probably belonging to the Way of White) couldn't bare to send his trusted Bishop to the Asylum; so instead, influenced by Seath, locked him up in the watchtower where Seath knew he could easily keep an eye on him.
There. *phew* Probably full of holes and mistakes, but there's my rant. The thing I love about DKS lore is that it's all subject to speculation.
Love your lore videos, man, keep 'em up!
Maybe Seath feared being the last of his kind and spared the dragon in ash lake, whilst at the same time breaking the dragon, sort of like the "You suffer with me" relationship between Menendez & Woods in Call Of Duty: Black Ops II. Is that too obscure of a reference? Nah, they'll get it.
I believe the research into magic like Seath and Logan did is what called them to madness.
Prolly already been commented on, but the clams are the favorite snack of dragons. That's why they are close to both dragons.
Personally I think he was the creator of Twinkling Titanite and this creation helped Gwyn defeat the dragons.
Seathe wanted scales just like the dragons had so he tried to make scales himself by experimenting on Titanite Slabs. He wanted to use them to reinforce himself like the player would with their equipment and become immortal. He created the Giant Clams as the vessel for them and used a cursed object to give them a will of their own, and that object is the Purging Stones they drop sometimes. He then brought them down to Ash Lake to see if they could survive a punch from the nearby Mushroom Men who hit like a b**ch from hell, and as expected they were utterly pulverized... Seathe knew it was a total failure so he placed them near his area just in case he can improve on them any further.
The Crystal Lizards were likely an unintended by-product of Seath's testing which then spread everywhere since you can find them all across Lordran, especially in The Great Hollow nearby. That the ones in The Great Hollow potentially drops an entire Titanite Slab further supports that Seathe used Titanite Slabs for his experiments at Ash Lake, and that they were the very first of the Crystal Lizards. Seathe or the Channelers probably found some of them to their surprise and brought them to Crystal Cave and Duke's Archives for further observation, which are also the only two Crystal Lizards you can find near Anor Londo.
This was all likely done very early on in the war since the Giant Blacksmith has Twinkling Titanite in great stock and it reinforces most armors and weapons relating to Anor Londo. Gwyn must have saw the great potential in them after finding a Crystal Lizard, and used them to bolster his armies strength and helped turn the tides in the war against the dragons. This is also why the only character from Anor Londo who barely uses Twinkling Titanite is Havel, who doesn't trust Seathe to save his life.
I didn't know the hydra could jump out of water darn you dark souls always giving me a new reason to go back to that cold, dark, and disgusting place that I love
I haven't played dark souls, I love these lore videos though. I think perhaps Seath became mad because of his own betrayal. Being the last of his kind and immortal, trying to bring back the dragons with his experiments and failing time after time.
Seath The Scaleless. Born from a mutation between two Everlasting Dragons, or is he the first cross breed? Born from an Everlasting Dragon and a Primordial Serpent?
How do they even mate....?
Something hit me after watching again and again this clip.
1) It was stated that Seath is grandfather of sorcery and his creations are in Darkroot. As well as enchanted ember. The only one magic (not fire magic) ember that comes from Oolacile. And the only one found outside of Archives.
2) Then there is Chester who said "Oolacile has brought the Abyss upon itself.
Fooled by that toothy serpent, they upturned the grave of primeval man, and incited his ornery wrath." Toothy serpent... first idea is that primordial serpent (likely Kaathe) did it. But... thoothy have other meanings. It's true that Kaathe have big teeth, but Seath also have unique ones - they look more like sharks teeth. Now other thing is I never saw Seath using his teeth, he always cast crystal spells.
4) Next thing is that Havel hated magic and Seath. WAs is becouse of what Dave said? Or maybe it was becouse of something way darker... abyss darker?
5) Covetous rings states that: "The serpent is an imperfect dragon and symbol of the Undead." Seath lacks dragon scales so in some way he is also imperfect. That implies he may be called serpent.
To conclude - what if the serpent that led to creation of Manus and spreading of Abyss was Seath? And he became insane after or even during the experimentations on fugitive pygmy?
This is pretty interesting
Anybody else make the connection ? The firekeeper talks of how the dukes archives eventually drove him the dragonmad, the same fate that happened to big hat Logan when he became absorbed in the archives?
I believe crystal golems and other things related to Seath are in Darkroot Garden because of Havel the Rock. He was sworn enemy of Seath and sorcery, gathering everything that could be useful in killing him and creating magic barrier miracles and experienced in killing dragons. I think Seath is scared of Havel as much as he's scared of dying/non-eternal life. I also think Gwyn locked him in the tower for Seath, as his wishes were more important (he was duke and had gwyn's soul shard) than Havel's who maybe was Gwyn's friend and great warrior, but nothing more.
Also, great videos Dave. I watched a lot of souls lore videos and I like yours the most. You put light on things that are much harder to notice than the rest.
I always wonder why Seath never speaks. His backstory suggest him a genius, mad, but still a genius. He had to have told Gwyn somehow of the Stone Dragons weakness, whether through physical speech, or a form of telepathy. From what we see of Oceiros, the Consumed King, he's a mad man, and yet in his cutscene, he speaks to you, antagonizing your presence and intentions. We should have expected the same or at the very least something similar from Seath, but he acts like a basic predator. This isn't a result of Hollowing, as that only affects mankind. Seath may be unlike any dragon, but he is no man.
Amazing video !
on the Ash Lake monsters; maybe it's a bit of both? Seath brought up clams and brought down hydras or vise versa for both reasons, study one and detour with the other
if he made the crystal ember then that could explain how ornifex and her people learned smithing from a "great white beast"
There's too damn much left unexplained about Seath, in spite of his importance. Too mind boggling!
Seath story is like my story in real life with the coveting something I didn’t have and it driving me insane except I’m not a duke or a dragon
Been a lurking subb for loong time and now i just feel the need to say that ur lore vids are amazing and make si mutch sense and i wonder If you have patreon?
Something that I don't hear a lot but the experimentation on the maidens could be a mission to create a human dragon hybrid because of his fascination with souls; this could suggest that pricilla was a experiment that had succeeded but Gywndolin sealed her away for fear of what she would represent?
That music at the end was very Soul Reaver.
î think its rather seaths ambition with magic that makes him an outsider.
His crystal breath is magic as well, so it can be assumed he wasnt as powerful as the other: having no fire breath. resulting in his obsession for other means. his research may have begun before the slaughter of his brethren and thats why maybe he had means and spells that worked against dragons. I think that he had differen mind alltogether. The other dragons seem much less researchers and thinkers than rather rulers and conquerors.
i like the approach on the hydras were created by seath because their parts bare resemblence to the picasas
it even be possible oolacile scholars consulted seath for help resulting in their light magic. and that maybe he is also the reason the oolacile dungeon looked like prison (much like his own) to experiment on animals and humans, by persuading them that without sacrifices can not be results, making the peacful oolacille harbor a dark secret.
when seath went insane they looked for new guidance, in the from of the primordeal serpent, which unlike seath had different intentions and that this culmanted in oolaciles downfall
Seath could be the first undead. In the beginning there was no life or death. Yet seath in the beginning was frail and could DIE!... This means Seath is the true start to the story because he was born and with him disparity.
4:57 whoah....the Snatchers? As in the Death Dealers in Bloodborne? They travel to far lands (as in Yarn'ham) to obtain maidens. Hmmmm...lots of that in Bloodborne.
Despondencymusic from software actually do alot of reoccurring themes in all their games. it actually seems like theyve been remaking the same game since their first game, and their just trying to make it better and better each remake.
has anyone ever noticed the large mountain of crystals (before Crystal Cave) in the Duke's crystal golem yard resbles a great dragon?
The more lore I hear of Seath the Scaleless the more I think he would be considered a drake. If I remember correctly there's a text that said that imperfect dragons were called drakes and Seath has no scales making him imperfect. Just a thought.
I thought imperfect dragons were snakes?
Sheri Sipsis Honestly no one knows. Snakes are imperfect dragons we know that from the serpent rings but drakes are also lesser dragons. Seath seems to be a full dragon without the stone scales, which makes some kind of sense since there has some to be something beneath their scales. I'm pretty sure the Picasas (the serpent abominations) are seath's attempts to make dragons that were imperfect and resulted in serpents. Generally just go with the flow and accept Seath was not normal in any way whatsoever.
caleb williams drakes have two back legs and no front ones. or atleast that's what magic the gathering has taught me.
thefishshotgun i have images of fromsoft's dev team playing magic the gathering now
thefishshotgun Okay, Now seathe has arms, butterfly wings, and tentacles.
It's a possibility that Havel went to Ash Lake to college the materials for his armor and even came up with a means to combating Seeth by coming up with the Miracle. A way he could've come to terms with this information is that he "could have" spoken to the Ancient Stone Dragon who wanted revenge against Seeth as well for his fallen brothers. This further leads to Havel's role in the Occult rebellion as he stows away his belongings in the basement in anor lando. He may have attempted to face Seeth, which proved useless since Seeth was immortal. He stole some forbidden books during his retreat and sent these to the catacombs for Pinwheel to decipher a way to end Seeth's immortality. Havel with then wait in the basement of the tower where you find him until he learns the means to bring down Seeth. Mostly about Havel instead of Seeth, but that's all I got as far as Ash Lake relations go.
well if Seath did visit Ash lake to drop some of his creations to protect the ancient dragon it would make sense that Havel would hate him as to Havel he is protecting a dragon and thus a traitor to Havel.
I guess it's also interesting to note that the only other Blue Slab you can pick up is in the Royal Wood. The Royal Wood, of course, looks like Darkroot Garden, where you can pick up the Enchanted Ember.
Another great connection!
Crystal ember handled only by the vinheim magic blacksmiths, yet can be given to the giant blacksmith.
What does that mean about the old chap I wonder
Seath the Scaleless....
He doesn't even have a Legs, i can't imagine how weird he looks when he's flying with those Tentacles 🗿
I think its pretty cool that you share other Dark Souls Lore buffs :b like Vaati and TerraMantis and Silver Mont etc :b It's a shame they don't all do that either :c
My thoughts on this:
The Primordial Crystal can be used as a container for souls, which effectively makes Seath a sort of Lich. Logan *did* say that Seath was a "true undead," unlike those who bear the Darksign. The real question is, where did the crystal come from? Being "primordial" and a "sacred treasure", it could have been a natural phenomenon like the everlasting dragons; it was simply there from the beginning. Then again, it could have been an ancient meteorite or some malarkey like that. Anyway, Sesth's research was heavily focused on souls and immortality. Given that he captured a fire keeper and made a bonfire, it is possible that he was exploring how to achieve the quasi-immortality of the Undead, whic could mean that he may have discovered the fact that being Hollow is simply the natural state of all non-dragons- that is to say that they are truly hollow, empty containers who have always existed to eventually bear a soul from the First Flame. The knowledge that drove him mad could have been the nature of the Dark Souls universe itself, or maybe it was an inability to find some perfect means of becoming immortal thst drove him to madness.
...or maybe he just broke the fourth wall and completely lost it. We'll never know.
I think that the pisacas are Seaths attempts at impregnating a mortal so he can have a baby. Notice how he only captures maidens for his experiments and that they are referred to as mistakes. I believe that the body of the pisacas are the maidens but the octopus like head is the baby which is the actual pisaca that is possessing the maiden. This may be drawn from an anime about demons where there are demons that posess people called pisaca they too are octopus like. As you may notice he also chose undead for this role which could indicate that he wishes the pisacas to stay attached to the host endlessly without them going on to posess other creatures. After these many "test subjects" seath decided that he would chose a different partner that would be capable of having his child this was probably a God of some sort matching right up with the Guinivere theory and the result of this was the crossbreed Priscilla. A interesting thing about this theory is that as it says that seath went mad because of his research which means that seath could have gone mad after a pisaca possessing him. Another possibility is that he was possessed by the first ever pisaca at birth notice the strange head, tail, and possibly the reason for no scales and it just took a while for the pisaca to take complete control of him because as a dragon he is very resistant. If you have any holes in my theory reply to comment and I will look into them.
This was brilliant.
i think that the everlasting dragon is somewhat seaths friend/brother this explains why havel's gmb is there cause he wants to kill seaths friend/brother and explains why the ancient dragon in dks2 has the old paledrake soul cause its the everlasting himself
what is that thing 5:14 and is it dangerous does it drop anything
Somewhere, while wondering the net, someone mentionned that Havel was the uncle of rhea...when she turned undead...he started the rebellion because he was under the impression that the curse had been created by the gods. Just a theory to think on. As for the ash lake thing...i think that the hydra and the clams are just some of seath's experiments. I think he planted them down there, not to make sure no one finds THE ancient dragon, but AN ancient dragon. Maybe was he so afraid that one of his kind remained alive that he planted defenses to make sure this secret would remain hidden for ever.
9:22, Human comprehension? He's a dragon!
2:50 you don't have to kill Seath to get the ember. You just have to get him to move down into crystal cave by finding his Imortal crystal.
But the level of detail... your videos are the best out there!
When he was still mortal, Seath must have been after the dragon scales that the hydras drop. "A dragon is inseparable from its scales, and the transcendent apostles, who seek the perpetuity of the ancient dragons, have crossed the very end of the earth to seek this invaluable treasure."
Anyone else notice the dukes archives from the roof of the church in undead parish?
Wait.. If those clams drop purging stones, does that mean they have connection to carim?
5:10 Remember the cleric knight near the elevators, Petrous of Thorolund? After the point at which Rhea disappears, Petrous drops an Ivory Talisman when killed, described as being only for female clerics. It may be a coincidence that the Maiden set is in the Archives, as there were many other maidens captured. (I've never gotten the Maiden set there...)
After Rhea disappears, Petrous's dialogue continues to express that he doesn't know where Rhea is, and remorse for losing track of her. If she was snatched, perhaps Petrous only happened upon the talisman by chance. My guess, though, would be that Petrous has killed her and is pretending to be innocent. Perhaps Petrous is secretly a heretic.
Perhaps Gwyndolin is actually a creation of seaths to watch over Anor Londo in the absence of the gods, thus not being a legitimate son of gwyn. Which would explain his serpent legs and his association with the moon and women like alot of seaths creations.
idk i think your lore vid about giant dad was a bit more accurate
Hey man, top notch work :D
so. good.
I'll look into some psychology to see if I can get some good basis for character motivations (seath's motivation seems pretty straightforward though).
item discriptions from some mircles and some occult stuff seem to indicate both that havel and gywn were old war buddies and that he may have been a part of the occult uprising that tried to take down gywn.
I would speculate that havel, who took part in the war against the dragons, may have been against a dragon being allowed to be part of gywn's kingdom (much less a duke [which would likely be a higher position than havel has]).
item descriptions also seem to suggest that havel may have been imprisoned in the tower by orders of gywn (or gywn himself). which would also suppot that havel took part in a conspiracy to take down gywn's kingdom.
just a theory.
I thought Seath was important, but holy crap! I just have one question: how was I not subscribed to channel before? Great stuff keep it coming!
Thanks, bro! I'm really glad you enjoy the content!
What song is playing at 6:08?
I am 100% sure nobody spared the crying Piscaras.
‘Tis a mercy to bestow upon them, death.
Oolaciles sorceries are more like physics, because it manipulates how light and matter interact with the environment.
Seath was studying the soul which is far different from Oolaciles studies.
So I think Seath went mad trying to comprehend these sorceries which I think were completely abstract to him as he was an expert in souls and creation, but not in very mechanics of the world.
I also think seth was using crystals to try and make his own scales. or stay at the mercy of the primordial crystal.
Havel hates sorcery, well that's ironic.