I remember being at a DEAD KENNEDYS show hearing a middle-aged person scream out "STOP GETTING ALL POLITICAL!!" Like did the name of the band not tip you off???
Saw an old dude bring a whole sheaf of materials expecting a q&a session at a Jello presentation of Machine Gun Clowns Hand years ago. Still confused about what he might have been thinking
I really like jello biafras attitude. I think he is unlike a lot of prominent people in punk music in that he is highly, highly politically engaged. Not in the sense that he is just screaming fuck the man all the time but he has a genuine desire to understand and work with the systems and institutions of American politics.
In italy where i live the extreme left youngs movement [that in the '70 produced most of the best italian music] did not liked the moderation of the italian Comunist Party. But when the greatest C.P. in Europe lost its political ideals and became a liberal party the radical movements lost progressively their power and finished completely when the right governrment was beating a lot of people and killed a guy during a great anti G8 meetng in Genoa, plus it was done without a real opposition to the government decisions by the ''so called'' left parties. In the last years Us Dem have signed all the worst disasters around the world, giving to the countries they moved war a violent death to innocent people and all kinds of instability and economic deseas to survivors. Have we to consider left wing only for promoting the pro-trans bizzarries or the devastating choices of green agenda? Do you know that while Europe is near an economic collapse that will make grew corporations again and will make poor much more people than now and also thoseones who will have still a job, in Russia they're trying to re-balance the crazy economic differences between second class and billionaire oligarks? Western left wings seem corrupted everywhere so.. plus the young scholars are not prepared to think with their heads but they learn for the most to repeat and repeat wrong theories and having lessons that seem big pharma's spots. So i'm really not surprised if they vote for Trump as the less bad candidate. No surprize that they hear and produce the less bad music they can. But I m not surprized too if they are going to a racial civil fight all over our countries: divide and conquer someone says it was created by my old grandaddies but i really think it was much more ancient as political strategy to rule the world
You mean the way 98% of Americans don't care about "hearing" from any dirt poor/homeless people until they're facing a possibility of joining their ranks?
To be fair, some early punks did transgress for the sake of transgression. That's why we got the infamous Nazi Punks in Britain in the 1970s. Leftist politics have always been a part of the movement (The Clash were probably the biggest mainstream punk band of all time and their politics were no secret) but it tended to prioritize populism and being anti-establishment above ideological cohesion, letting some bad actors get in.
It's always been stereotyped as that, it's the main reason it even blew up, the UK bands like the Sex Pistols just took that shock factor to the next level. If it remained a more nuanced movement it would have never taken off
We have an Australian version of this is. Former conservative Prime Minister John Howard repeatedly said his favourite Midnight Oil song is "Beds are burning" (a song about Indigenous land rights) while simultaneously refusing for years to issue a national apology to the Aboriginal people for the stolen generation.
i read the first sentence of this and went "this is about Midnight Oil isn't it" an an american their whole existence feels insanely political that I can't imagine an elected conservative could like them without missing the point.
I disagree. They simply thought he was awesome. They ignored his problems and stuck with his "virtues". These shows try to humanize the facist and understand how they become what they are. What they get is that they are justified to be facist. These shows tend to present facism as cool. As much as they criticize if you chop down the length of the media it is mostly saying facism is kinda cool. FD goes into that in his video "Edgelord Movies Finally BROKE ME!!!". I also recommend "The Simpsons and the Death of Parody" from Jonas Čeika
@@rmv9194 you say that, on a video about conservatives being too stupid to realise RATM are left wing😂😂😂 They're definitely as stupid as I KNOW they are.
@@bernardeugenio The Boys isn't saying fascism is cool lmao, there's plenty of media that applies to but The Boys isn't one of them; it's actually very explicit and on the nose with it's politics from the start. Any misinterpretation of that is media illiteracy.
I think Rage is popular among conservatives because the band is so good that most people probably don’t listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it’s not just about the pleasures of rebellion and the importance of independence. It’s also a political statement on the country itself.
I know you did an American Psycho reference as a joke, but Patrick Bateman would totally blast RATM without understanding or caring about his role in the cogs
Bro it doesn't matter if the occasional lyric is communist in nature, you thinking all Republicans are rich its like from the stone age. A lot of the lyrics in rage songs are revolutionary. Lyrics about truth to power, about waking up about the evils of the system, its appealing to rural whites who feel that government hates them, who they are, rural whites are obsessed with revolution and change, they did January 6th because inside each of them is hatred of government and Trump said election may have been stolen and so they wanted to lash out. Same hatred of RATM of government they have. BLM and Jan 6th it is all about the same sickness of whatever they see evils.
There is a certain reggae singer from Chicago who makes zionist reggae songs supporting the annexation of the west bank and how it's anti-Semitic for Palestinians to have basic human rights. I guess white supremacist reggae isn't that far off.
@@DefenestrateYourself Didnt you love it when the old Dave made fun of crackheads, the hadicapped, the disabled, gay people (sissy fight anyone lol), black nationalists, and women consistently. But society was okay with you liking that back then.
I liked FD Signifier before he went woke and started talking about politics, just like I liked Fantano before he got all artsy and started talking about music.
Rage had communist stars plastered all over there outfits and Instruments during shows. Even beyond lyrics, I can’t think of a band that have made their political beliefs any more obvious than rage..lol Edit: apparently they were “Zapatista” stars, which further proves that even “left”rage fans (me) can easily still miss the point sometimes. My bad.
I believe the lack of media literacy and the ability to analyze art, is bred from the inability to empathize and think abstractly. I see a lot of conservatives (not just) think of things very two-dimensionally. There’s a weird disconnect between others and their own perception.
I would consider myself a moderate conservative, and this couldn't be farther from the truth. I love music and analyzing lyrics and all that, and I have plenty of empathy in my heart. The problem is that the modern left thinks "empathy" means bending to the "oppressed/oppressor" mindset and seeing yourself (assuming the person is white or whatever) as totally privileged and must be held responsible for the actions of people you've never met who just happen to look like you. And on top of that seeing other people you know nothing about on a personal level who just happen to fit in a few identity boxes as victims is what's considered "empathetic", and if you don't do this then that makes you a bigot. This goes into something that I've thought for awhile, and that's that liberals are their own worst enemy. Because they constantly alienate people with their rhetoric before they even get the chance to convince people of their mindset, they lose the opportunity to actually change minds, and is why they are losing the culture war right now. I honestly could go on longer, but who has time for that?
Ok, sure. I agree that is the wrong framing. However, empathy and acts of kindness shouldn't be a chore or something people feel like they have to make up reasons for anyone to do. Maybe a better way of framing it is how can you work to help cancel out the harm and evils others have caused? Something, something, that old expression of leaving a place better than how you found it? Idk. I'm starting to feel like everyone, me included, can do better.
If you're reading this, please like this comment so It'll be noticed. On the topic of conservatives listening to left leaning music, more specifically police . I HIGHLY suggest people go over to a channel "That Dang Dad" And watch his video "Why do cops like anti-cop music" He talks about the time when he was on the police force and how other cops would listen to left/Anti-cop music as a way to say "fk you". He thought of himself as being" one of the good one" Because he knew what bands like rage were talking about. He wasn't a racist , he didn't racially profile people. Only to have an epiphany later in life that it doesn't matter if he was "one of the good ones" because the system that is designed to oppress people didn't need his participation. It's a really good listen.
I listened to the first RATM record yesterday and I got a little choked up. It's heartbreaking to hear such a passionate message, know that it was heard by millions, and see where we are 32 years later.
Cause people don't fucking read. It shouldn't start and end with RATM. If people who were listening and understanding the lyrics weren't picking up Marx, Lenin, Fanon, Chomsky or any another author materially critiquing capitalism, there was no hope to begin with
Even the album cover is a lot. I can't help but think about what Paul Ryan would say about the courageous man who self-immolated in Washington to protest the Armed Forces' complicity in the Palestinian Genocide. I know it's difficult to be shocked nowadays by extreme action, but that album cover is genuinely horrific and meant to beoadcast exactly what the band is about.
Well, blame that on the lack of actual bands that spread these kinds of messages now. You can say the same about the Dead Kennedy's which made fun of the right and the left equally, because anyone with a brain knows that none of the sides are the good side.
Here in Brazil a while back people were shocked and frustrated (some "demanding" ticket reimbursement) because they went to a ROGER WATERS concert and deemed it too political
I miss the days when Pink Floyd just made a concept album about some cute animals instead of being political smh… No I haven’t read the lyrics of that album, why do you ask?
It must be a conservative thing. They probably know that most artists are left -leaning and turn a blind eye to it until it smacks them in the face. Lefties are the opposite, for better or worse. I got 1/3 into "Rich men of Richmond" before the dogwhistle got too loud.
The irony of them talking about how we don't take anything seriously and looking at the comments, where almost no one is taking it seriously, is insane
Same was true for when he released a standalone video on the same topic about three weeks ago. The internet as a whole has become this weird post-ironic, hyper-aggressive, wannabe-intellectual mess as of late. Simply spending time on one of these sites has become such a massive drag.
It's unsurprising people use it that way when it's such a low-value place to express yourself. I like to think it's good that this environment doesn't have the same safe and candid feel as an AA meeting, because I really would despair at the lack of creativity and variety if all comments were sincere engagement with the topic. I don't even think it would be a higher value place if that were the case - people mostly don't get out what they put into comments like these. It's probably more worth talking to a friend about it
I love Rage, but they were always about as subtle as getting hit with a brick to the face. The fact that someone could somehow listen to "Killing in the Name Of" and conclude that it somehow means "fight against the jab" or support conservative ideology in anyway is truly bizarre. Seriously, what the hell did they think they meant when they said "Some of those that work in forces are the same that burn crosses?"
They don't pay attention to anything but the guitars and/or the anthemic sounding chorus. Most people are dumb and lack basic media literacy, and it's incredibly frustrating
Feel like this is partially caused by the "gatekeeping is terrible and you should never do it" thing. Like yeah you should try to understand a subculture before you make it your aesthetic
@@Cdr2002 yeah everything is not for everyone. It's insulting to subcultures and scenes born out of pain or struggle or activism etc can just be co-opted by whoever likes how it makes them look like they have equal claim to it
@ absolutely, good way of putting it. One really good example is co-opting certain aesthetics tied to queerness (including punk) and watering them down at the same time that cisheteronormative culture is actively oppressing the same people who’s aesthetics are seen as desirable. The corporations trying to crack the code to “black art without black people” is another huge example
@@Cdr2002if a conservative wants to listen to rage against the machine they shouldn’t be held at the gates from liberal crybabies saying “BuT BUt YoUR ThE MaChInE” conservatives are people too… and they also might fully understand the song and agree with some of the songs points, Tom morello is not a saviour of the people by any means he’s a rich stuck up whiny man child…
Conservative bros think that people being annoyed at you for being a POS is punk... when really it's a result of being punk. And it's a result of standing up against and interrupting oppression, threatening the status quo that benefits the rich. Not from being a POS.
@@Smits2656 he is the president, he is in charge of the political establishment no matter how it looks from the outside. your favorite politician is just another politician
25:53 lmao i'm so glad you brought that up. It actually even blows my mind that so many white/rich people IN GENERAL(racist or not) latched on to reggae. Half the roots songs about liberation are so aggressively anti-whiteness/capitalism.
Someone once asked me what my least favorite music genre was and I answered “white reggae” and they went on a rant on why I should like it because it’s just “feel good music about chilling”
I literally had to tell someone this morning that RATM got banned from SNL in their heyday for protesting the Republican host. Crazy how people either ignore that stuff or forget all about it
@@daniellove162 Trump is a worse version of Cheney. The bush admin showed the republicans that they could lie and no one would care. They could completely fabricate the rational to got to war and be fine. They could call a hero who fought in Vietnam anti American in comparison to a draft dodger. Trump wouldn't be here without Bush.
They criticized NBC's owners for producing the bomber aircraft used in the First Gulf War back in the 90s, hanging an American flag upside-down, too. The producers quickly cut to commercial.
12:10 I went through elementary during the beginning of No Child Left Behind. I was talking to my mom about that, telling her she voted for this essentially. This is exactly the outcome you get when you ruin the education system for nearly 20 years.
I'm 31 now, essentially went through the same and I'll say this: no school curriculum or standards can compensate for the sheer nihilism I saw among my peers. Even if more rigorous standards were enforced they would have just dropped out, or if they were athletes that would have floated them. If I had any passion to learn or think critically I would think it was from my mom encouraging me to read from an early age. I don't know how a public school could possibly provide the same. We can also look at all the "boomers" and Gen X'ers you meet nowadays who have absolutely no critical thinking skills either and they were never subjected to No Child Left Behind.
@@TheApatheticGuy No Child Left Behind is not the sole cause of the problem: it is both a contributor to the problem and a milestone in the history of the problem. The contrast FD made with No Child Left Behind was specific to the contrast with its preceding era, as there were at least lessons in critical thinking and media literacy available for students who engaged.
I was in elementary during NCLB as well. I literally had a principal verbally abuse me because I was _too smart._ He didn’t like that my mom exposed me to critical thinking skills and being allowed to come to my own conclusions and form my own opinions before kindergarten. I was reading within the first few months of pre-K, and my mom often used examples of religious faith as me being able to make my own decisions (she basically said “I’m not going to direct you into any way of thinking - you choose what you want to believe in based on the evidence you see”). So when I was able to tell when someone was bullshitting me before I knew my multiplication tables, both my mom and I got a shitload of pushback by the head of my school. It wasn’t even just doing a poor job of teaching students basic humanity - it was actively fighting against it.
So now I know what I'm making for night mind and his annual horror short film festival for Halloween next year. Thanks for the inspiration, I will make sure your name appears in the credits.
The rise of the whole internet subculture thing is a trip to me. I understand that there are some people who cannot make it to shows or plain don't have a local scene, but there's a huge disconnect between the kind of people I see in the reddit hardcore, skinhead, and punk threads vs the kind of people I actually encounter at shows and events. Sometimes I will see local drama online that I hear nothing about in person, and the drama that DOES happen at shows rarely makes it onto the internet. Like you'll never hear from the kid we actually kicked out. I wanna be generous and say that a lot of people are just so confused and alienated by our social media culture that they don't know how to meaningfully participate in actual culture, but oftentimes it just feels like people want the image and the "vibe" without putting any skin in the game.
You see this a lot in nerd spaces when people compare online to their convention spaces. I remember a lot of big talk from TH-camrs in the Godzilla community a few years ago about people online being toxic vs the kindness and civility of G-Fest attendees
@@Cdr2002 This happened a ton for metalheads back in the day and maybe somewhat today where people always acted like they were raging satanists, evil, etc then you go to a show and everyone is bros passing you blunts for free and picking each other up. I went to a Gojira show last year and a dude near me was wearing a jacket that said We kill Nazi fucks at shows. I sometimes think Mainstream media and certain groups that feel threatened by these things go around purposely spreading these baseless rumors just to discredit people.
@@Comrade.Question absolutely! What I want most is for the kids to know they have a place in the punk, hardcore, and oi! movement, no matter where they first encounter it. If Tik Tok is where you first discover beatdown music, so be it. The important part is that you show up and participate, even if you feel out of place at first and just go home after the show. You show up, you keep coming back, and eventually that shit changes your life.
Went to Coachella back in 2007, but I only went on Bjork’s headlining day (less than $100 for a one day ticket back then!), but all you had to do was hit up literally any online music forum around that time and the experience was universal: everyone was sick of Rage fans. Despite the leftist lyrics, the fanbase was the most obnoxious crowd of frat bros, and they even relentlessly boo’d the acts that came before Rage’s set since they all camped at that stage all day. Sometimes it doesn’t matter what your singer says, you can still end up attracting a fanbase of millions of meatheads.
I mean where have you been the last 10 years? Liberal democrats are now the new “right” in terms of censorship, and corporate boot licking. Just look at how many liberals are defending big Pharma.
DownUFO music is music, in a genre like that im suprised people think messaging or lyrics end up being everything to people, let alone assuming that outright.
This reminds me of the "I just listen to hip hop for the beat" crowd in the 90s when pressed about the misogyny in hip hop of the time. A large portion of people only hear music. They don't actually listen to it.
An old episode of the 90s sitcom "News Radio" played off this idea. Phil Hartman's character got SUPER into hip-hop for a minute. Then David Foley's character noticed that the treble dial was turned all the way off, and Phil was jamming out to the beat without any awareness that folks were rapping in the selfsame songs.
I like to imagine a conservative going into the record store in the early 90s to buy a Rage single and then ignoring how the cover for bombtrack literally has Che on it
@@aeoligarlic4024 or they had a Che poster, shirt and fridge magnet in colledge and did not at all clock the irony of commericalized products with his face on it
Probably it will get mentioned after I post this towards the beginning of me watching, but that song from Nirvana is about just this. "He's the one who likes all our pretty songs, and he Likes to sing along and he likes to shoot his gun, but he knows not what it means - knows not what it means..."
@@NateSmokes816 this is either a mandela effect or yanni/laurel thing lmao. Ive seen so many people say "knows not what it means" when writing out the lyrics but it so clearly says "dont know what it means"
I sorta agree with the anti-intellectualism amongst Gen z (I am one) but some pushback I would give is the reaction to the genocide in Gaza. Mainstream media and our politicians are trying everything they can to manufacture consent but young people have been some of the most vocal on the issue and most skeptical of those traditional influence structures (in this scenario at least).
Being very vocal doesn't mean most of them agree. By numbers alone Gen Z men voted for trump enmasse. They are the big andrew tate and Adin ross fans. A large portion of them are morons. Every generation has a ton of morons though. This is...just unfortunately worse than usual.
The us govt doesnt actually need our buy-in anymore to be effectively just an arms dealer. So the propaganda is not for the ppl already supporting pal-estine
Its weird with Gen Z how that doesnt map across issues the same way it does with Millenials, who were more politically leftist, politically radical and bucked all trends about getting more conservative as they get older, but Gen Z is actually moving back to that. It's bad news for everyone really
23:00 Re: conservative "goths," Lily Alexandre had a great video about this called "Millions of Dead Vibes." It's sort of about the way that modern internet culture minimizes subcultures into aesthetics, stripping them of context and history and leaving nothing but what's on the surface. It's a great watch.
When F D said Gavin Nuesome had to do Patrick Bateman stuff I imediately could see him murdering a homeless guy in a campaign ad and it running numbers
Its important to consider how many people listen to music without actually paying attention to the lyrics, much less the opinions people who wrote it. One of my girlfriend's favorite songs is Hunger Strike by Temple of the Dog. She loves that shit. When she hears it, she's not thinking of the message
I personally will hear a song and if i like it enough i will check out the lyrics. The music is just more important to me overall but everyone's different. Also that temple of the dog is great!
Right. I worked with a military obsessed dude who used to troll rooster by Alice in chains then I explained to him the story and he was immediately a huge fan 😂
Tbf many people loved the song (or hated it lol) Macarena, mostly the remixed version and not the original version. Both versions though, has the same message that basically says dump your boyfriend who's in the army and go out with me instead but because the song is catchy, it just flew over people's heads.
The answer to your question at about 2:10 is that a lot of people in this country really lack any sort of media literacy and the ability to absorb and analyze information. That's how we end up with conservatoids and liberals alike being all about RATM but not understanding what they're saying
I feel the "it's cringe to care" thing was sadly started by us millennials. A big cultural milestone of that early 2000/2010 era is South Park which is peak that. The whole premise behind south park is "no matter your political side, caring is lame, apathy is cool". And this sadly just go entrenched.
I'm glad I finally started to see how actually bad South Park was a long time ago and got off the bandwagon. I remember them in their Waco/ATF episode commentary saying something like, "This is for our fallen brothers in Waco," and now I'm like, "you mean the gun stockpiling cultists with the pedophile leader? They're your brothers?" Cruel jokes aren't really funny if they're just meant to wholly be transgressive, there has to be empathy in there otherwise it's hollow cynical douchebagness.
@@technobladeleakedclips1827 it was bad, it was always bad. The creators are incurious libertarians that think because they're American they're right. They're wrong.
I think this is true, but I feel like millennials also massively rejected it (as did the broader culture) in the early-to-mid 2010s. I feel like we've retreated back into the too-cool-to-care, "post-ironic" detached nonsense as a distinct new wave, not a continuation of the one we experienced growing up.
I worked out at a CrossFit gym 10 years ago. There were a lot of cops there that really liked rage against the machine, which makes in terms of message, no fucking sense. I chalked it up to people not listening to lyrics AT. ALL. and only honing in on the “energy”, because let’s be honest rage against the machine for working out rips. Regardless, it’s pretty weird.
funny how the kendrick lamar twitter community got flooded with trump supporters and they started calling others "sheeps in a herd" for agreeing with kendricks political views and calling tpab a "non-political" album
I also see this in the Star Trek community. There are a lot of white guys that complain about things like diversity and inclusion. That was a main component of it from the beginning.
I love that you are finally talking about this because I have been clowning on these types for the longest time. I think when it comes to Rage Against the machine, they really just like the part that says "fuck you I won't do what you tell me" because a lot of them have the ethos and personalities of actual toddlers. I think it's along the same lines of when I see cops with the Gadsden flag Punisher mashup. They don't actually understand who the Punisher is, they just like the idea of being able to engage in wanton, vigilante violence with impunity themselves. You know, like cops actually get to do for the most part...
When you two talk about how the Right Wing model of masculinity actually rules out a lot of Right Wing big names I think back to how the Alpha Male ideology demonstrated this Their idea was the "best" man was an Alpha, leader of the pack type guy and the weakest was the subservient Beta but then they realised that almost none of them were leaders of groups and in fact often loners so they created the Sigma, the cool lone wolf who didn't need a pack but was still a badass or whatever. From there they spun off a whole silly Alphabet to include a range of types of guys they tended to conform to. Beta's were now the loyal and dependable guys who helped their brave leaders ("You're a beta and you're valid") with some new bottom rung and there's a Zetas and Theta and all kinds of stupid shit now. It just became the validating and inclusive "everyone is different and that's fine" ideology that they had once hated but way more convoluted and cringe.
As part of gen z I heavily agree and feel very alienated within my own generation. I feel the lack of hope too but it's never turned me to abandon humanity
I actually feel a very similar way to you. I never really resonated with the typical attitudes of many men my age (22) and I’ve definitely gotten frustrated, but I could never go so far as to accept maxims like “humanity bad always”
There needs to be more musicians like RATM in the new generations. From my observations, gen Z seems to be a generation that is VERY AWARE of our current social and political situations. But when it comes to music, how come it's always the same ol conformist musicians like sabrina carpenter and maneskin?
@ hip hop fans of our generation have guys like Kendrick but for other genres I have no idea Rock itself fading from mainstream prominence probably also has something to do with it
This is by no means a new phenomenon. (Edited because a point I was gonna make got made, that should teach me for not waiting till the end to comment) This happens because music is very good at communicating emotions and very bad at communicating ideologies. Emotions are universal so regardless of the message behind a song what is really going to resonate with people is how it makes them feel. My husband didn't realise a song he liked was in Welsh he'd been singing along with English words which sounded similar. That's an extreme example but it goes to show the length people will go to interpreting a song to line up with their own world view.
Plato wrote that poets must be inspired by the gods, given that so many of them don't fully understand what their own poetry really means. So, we've had this problem for a while, and the recognition of the "death of the author" has rendered it less persuasive to explain to listeners that they missed the intended message. People only care what the author intended when the author is on their side. PS: Also being around FD Signifier's age, my experience has been that anti-intellectualism has always been a theme in America. Richard Hofstadter’s classic Pulitzer-winning book _Anti-intellectualism in American Life_ was published in 1963, before my time. We're the nation of the Scopes Monkey Trial, and scientific literacy hasn't really penetrated the masses, as creationism is still a force. "Bookworm," "egghead," "nerd," "poindexter," "book-smart," "ivory tower," "geek," "smarty-pants," "Brainiac," etc., are terms for those who are educated and therefore there's something wrong with them.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 All philosophical debates are most definitively resolved by wrestling. I think Socrates said that in Plato's _Republic_ somewhere.
I still feel that needs to be addressed, I'm suprised there isn't more comments about that considering the onslaught of negative comments on the review itself
yeah, it's kinda detrimental to melon's brand to take a democrat-leaning position while disparaging an artist, even if it's not high art to most listeners
I had not heard of FDSignifier before this video, but I'm a new fan. His arguments are sound, and his explanations are palatable. His vocabulary is honestly a pride; I love being involved in the conversation by using "obscure," specific words. Call it whatever you want, but talking about interlocutors becoming insolent as misguided fans is a subject that I find deeply intriguing.
I just turned 21 last month, and I've had a very nihilistic view and experience throughout my adulthood so far. I held on to the belief that nothing mattered so I just ended up numbing myself to everything. I spend so much time numbing myself instead of trying to educate myself and trying to be a better person. I lean politically left, but to be honest, I didn't vote, because I just believe that democracy is dead. I'm sick of feeling like I'm living for nothing, and I want to continue to develop positive ideologies. I firmly believe that music is something that brings people together. I appreciate Fantano and FD so much because I don't have people in my life that I converse with about politics and I love being able to see different ideologies and new ways of thinking.
As some one who lives the world of punk goth and metal who is also a artist I have to think about the symbols I use in my art. I like a little edge to say something. I think art has gotten dumber and therfore less interesting. The black mirror of politics is what makes art more interesting and more art. My friend lloyd from troma has made political art since 73 and his edge gets sharper has he gets older. I have learned alot from him. The cult of common sense kills any conversation on critical thinking. Tom Mcdonald is faux independent music. His art is a kiddie pool deep yet the redcaps eat it like the poison apple it is. What would jello say? Corperatonns just want money and their greed kills art. Product is just soilent green alternative. The right can never and will never be alt. Conservitives just want the cma. A origination that is killing music. Folk punk and country don't sound too different its just the politics that's the dumbest way go classify art. Keep the nazis out of metal like very that guy from all that remains and any nsbm artists they can sit at the kids table with 5 finger death punch. Keep metal goth and punk what it is so it can help those that need it and if you reject the culture just listen to screwdriver and leave us alone. Great conversation good Luck with dealing with Ronald the clown.
This was a cathartic conversation i'm glad to have heard. It really helped me organize some of the frustrations i have with culture right now. The biggest irony is when i was in school i was like "fuck school, it's lame, i'm never gonna need to know this stuff" and promptly dropped out my senior year to do tattoos and party. But now i'm like "holy fuck we need so much more schooling, everyone's so dumb" Meanwhile schools have been defunded to oblivion and no one can afford to become a teacher.
The conversation about how shitty American education is and how it’s effecting kids is so accurate. I loved school as a young kid and was always trying to learn new things and had almost perfect grades, but as I moved into middle and highschool that just. Completely went away. I hated school and learning because.. it wasn’t about learning anymore. It was about memorizing what you were told and copying that down onto a quiz at the end of the week. It was about struggling through the tedium of homework everyday so I didn’t get a zero. It was about being obedient to authority instead of being creative and questioning things. By the time I got to 10th grade all I cared about was how I could put in the lowest amount of effort and still get decent grades, literally minmaxing my education because it was so uninteresting and never challenging in a way that was worthwhile. Now as an adult I’m finally rekindling that love of learning but I’m also suffering the consequences of a failed education. Recently I realized I don’t know how to sound out words because they apparently taught me sight reading instead of phonetic reading! I have no idea what learning strategies are most effective for me because I would just memorize anything I didn’t understand the night before the test and then immediately forget the information after the test. I’m really bad at making myself sit down and focus on one thing for long periods of time because I never cared enough about what I was learning to form that habit. Idk it makes me feel sad and like I missed a lot of opportunities because my education was not designed in a way that encouraged a love for knowledge or critical thinking or hard work.
THIS!!! I loved reading my whole life, and I remember thinking in high school that school was deliberately designed to get people to HATE reading. All the 'classic' books we were assigned to read were boring AF, overwhelmingly written by dead white men, and just not relevant to anyone or anything at that time (I graduated high school in 1989). Plus, I was in a supposedly 'good' school district. It's sad, and has been going on for a long time, and is not going to get any better.
Your country needs preferential voting *so* badly. It doesn’t fix everything, but at least socialists running for election can explain why people should vote for them, and also why they should rank a Neoliberal Party higher than a Fascist Party. Preferential voting was introduced in Australia after two conservatives running for election got more votes collectively but lost to a Labor candidate who got a plurality of votes. If the GOP could give up on their primary process and just split between Trump lovers and Trump sceptics and run against each other, preferential voting might have a chance!
Fantastic convo. I think there was an authenticity, on both creators and audiences that's also missing. Staying up late from getting sick and seeing "Freedom" on Matt Pinfield lead to me seeking out what AIM was and who Leonard Peltier was. The CD book for Evil Empire has a reading list that even broke, hood kids like me could seek out, and I don't think those mechanical affects exist now. Including people being receptive beyond, "Look at this post I saw."
I’m afraid most people are just not political in the way Anthony or FD or Tom Morello are. That’s the long and short of it. Instead people hear messages like “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” and relate it to their own lives and beliefs. And you can’t control the course of such things!
Everything and everyone is inherently political. Even being "apolitical" is a political stance. Convincing people that there is an inherent enlightenment in "both sides make fair points" is just simply pro status quo, and it is embraced by the status quo. People have been convinced that being apolitical is somehow cool and smart, and they are always super smarmy about it. Little do they know they have been duped into giving up the fight to make political decisions that will serve them and their own working class interests.
Dude politics are complete BS. You've been duped into believing your vote matters. The reason we have the right to vote is so we THINK we have a choice. @@LeninCake
@@DoomKid I'm being one hundred percent serious. Politics are akin to WWF wrestling. Clearly though, this concept is completely beyond your grasp, so I'm not going to get into it. Pity.
@@ElleEmenopylmao being this kind of apolitical is not that complex of a "concept" to "get a grasp on", you're just in your doomer era. It's not really groundbreaking or super intellectual, you're just allowing yourself to give up, to not add any depth to any conversation. How privileged.
"During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the 'consolation' of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it." - Lenin This is strategy by the ruling class, commodify and de-fang revolutionary art, movements and individuals. There is another great quote about this in Disco Elysium too.
Idk if fantano has always done these kinds of videos but I really love having a topic and then a discussion that’s extremely relevant. Love this and the Justin hunt video
@@juanluisgalvezghiggo6618 Every movement needs money. Viveks daddy was a member of the Indian Mafia after all. and we all know about Elons riches. Even the proud boys had money from China! 😂
I think the main reason people misinterpret the political stance of music made by far left leaning musicians is the US's absence of leftist representation in parliament when Dead Kennedys criticise the democratic governor or RATM continues to rage despite 2 Clinton terms. Republican conservatives interpret it as them being unhappy under 'far left' tyrannical regimes while they're actually complaining about the lack of social economic reform and faux progressive puppets funding the same discriminatory and inhumane police state and incarceration system their political opponents are because when it comes down to running the country the two parties hold very similar policies. But when stupid people hear music that is sticking it to the man they automatically assume 'Oh they're also unhappy with this democrat in office, we must think alike'
We have to put on our clownshoes, jingle keys and use baby talk to get things back to a level where we can intellectual discussions is spot on unfortunately
It's funny that this is happening again, when 8 years ago, tom morello, serj tankian, and a few other political musician were making posts like this and people responded like "oh here goes another celebrity trying to be political..." stuff along those lines. Like they were never listening. Zack de la Rocha repeats every line in killing in the name over and over again to really hammer home the point. But people just go, hey this is kind of funky. I'm ranting yes, but ratm and Tom morello specifically are the reason I ever picked up a guitar.
good stuff uncs, as a a slighty older head who was around when all these important music genres discussed were birthed, it has been perplexing and disturbing to see the levels of co-oping, that has gone on. Whats the answer? I think FD hit it when he was saying we need to move on and make more different new dope art . It's also not helping us that many of todays biggest "creatives" are super ignorant or just don't stand for nada, especially if it messes with their bag.
44:00 this is it right here. this wasn't a repeat of 2016. it's much more like what happened to Hubert H. Humphrey in 1968, where he was shackled to the unpopular policies of the Johnson administration and didn't do enough to distinguish himself from that.
K Dot has expressed that he does not like Trump in DAMN in XXX. “Homicidal thoughts, Donald Trump’s in office” “We lost Barack and promised to ever doubt him again” He’s also best buds with Obama so idk why conservatives think Dot’s a Trump supporter.
i will never forget how massively Antony missed the point about Deftones' Genesis just 'cause the song's lyrics says "I reject both sides" and Fantano immediately took it as political rejection (and he critiqued it as stagnation in voting period) when the song, album and band has NEVER been affiliated to any politics per se and the lyrics were actually reflection of the band's internal conflict between Chino's and Steph's artistic visions.
On the point of Conservatives and creativity; I recently learned of a few talking points from Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer and The Nature of Mass Movements." Something that really stuck out to me is the theory that people prone to mass movements are usually less creative, as creative flow provides an outlet for frustration and boredom. I've always wondered why the most outspoken conservatives seem to be the least creative people, and this notion finally provided a possible answer.
Music and art was always the reason that I never got negatively polarized towards words like communism and socialism. I was used to my artistic heroes being labled as such, and even having been punished for it. So, Ive always had a soft spot for leftism even before I got into politics. A lot of the best art, especially in the late 19th and early 20th century, was made by people who were radically left wing, especially by today's standards.
I explicitly sat down and had several talks about intellectual honesty and debunking memes with my daughter starting from middle school and she eventually became an objective minded teenager. I’m a Gen Xer…too many of us let media and technology raise our kids instead of trying to equip them with the tools to properly contextualize information.
I'm seeing a lot of "solid pick bro" as the response to batsh!t things like the Gaetzkeeper being named as AG (don't expect the Diddler to last too long after that happens). The political sphere is shaped more like a turd lately and I am just baffled as to what is going on in my country. My advice, just keep listening to the new clipping on repeat. Thanks Anthony
Ever heard ofthe Dead kennedy's? Listen to holiday in Cambodja, and California uber alles, and eat some humple pie. Real punk is anarchist, and can't be pigeonholed in a political side.
Another factor to consider is summed up in the following quotation: "The Philistine not only ignores all conditions of life which are not his own, but also demands that the rest of mankind should fashion its mode of existence after his own." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
"good art" says SOMETHING to a lot of people. That's how we all agree it's "good". But WHAT IT SAYS depends on the definitions and feelings conjured up by the words in the mind of the listener, not the author. It might work lots of ways. For example: "Killing In The Name" Killing in the name of [...who? stay tuned to find out] Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses (x3) [a true statement. Doesn't actually imply that either of those things are bad. Could mean "work forces some people to burn crosses", which is probably true, if you photograph Black Metal album covers for a living. Or "work" could mean what it does in a phrase like "work the body" in a boxing gym, and it could actually also mean that there are also some criminals in the Klan, alongside the cops. The hoods make it easier for everybody. I'm sure Tom Morello meant us too think all this. But if you use a strange phrase like "work forces", which is not common parlance, we get to figure it out. ] Huh! [gutteral plosive] Killing in the name of (2x) [...of who? stay tuned to find out. ] And now you do what they told ya (x11) [ seem present progressive. Could also be imperative. seems pejorative, to "me", the audience, but I know where the song is going.] But now you do what they told ya [the consequences of having done this is having done this.{0o0}] Well now you do what they told ya Those who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites [ this line, I think, is intended sarcastically, so it literally means the opposite. Tom Morello does NOT seem to think they are justified, if those who died are wearing bades, but he doesn't say that. Also, it is customary for Jews to be buried in white shrouds, but that's only relevant if you think they have anything to do with this song. Gives this line a different twist. And that line about the crosses. And don't blame me for imagery he brought up.] You justify those that died by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites [not the same line. Who is "you"? Is "you" "me"? "The Machine"? Am "I" "The Machine"? Is this "Rage" Against "Me"? Anyhow, both of these lines are about "those who died", who are "justified for wearing the badge". So these who are being justified are cops who presumably perished in the line of duty, while wearing the badge. Is this about cops who kill, or killed cops? I'll go with it meaning "it's fine to kill cops", because Tom Morello, like you, thinks art needs to have offensive ideas in order to be "good".. No, it needs to make you ] (x2) Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses [see Above] Uggh! [see Above] Killing in the name of [see Above] And now you do what they told ya [see Above] And now you do what they told ya, now you're under control [see Abov- oh wait. Whose control? Their control? if "I" do what "they" "tell" me to, "I" am under "my" control. It's not until they wrest me to the earth and lock me in the car that they have any control over me whatever, and they can never make me SAY what I refuse to say. But it is important to be under control, "your" control. So I think we can all agree with this.] And now you do what they told ya! Those who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites [ see Above] Come on! [This is a reference to Cheap Trick. everybody knows Cheap Trick's work] Yeah! Come on! Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me [ x however many times you want to. I love the idea that the guy screaming into the microphone onstage, or in a padded booth, is being "told" anything. "I" certainly wasn't telling him anything. But as a hook, who can deny it can be screamed by almost anybody at almost anybody else? M**********r! [obligatory expletive] Uggh! [gutteral] Summary: Many people write songs that many people resonate with, accidentally while trying to write something that offends everybody. But why do you all know about this song, and him? Is it because "The Machine" has so much power that sucks for those who won't do what they tell them? Not in his case. It's like watching Franz Kafka miming being squashed by a huge boot. But everybody feels like a roach sometimes. See Psalm 22. And we technically never found out in "whose" name the killing was done. So, separated from all the rest of RATM, (by radio waves or Limewires, for example,) you get to put in whatever name you want.
I'm convinced that conservatives do stuff like this (missing an obvious point) to try to bait you into persuading them. I don't think the left understands how much power you give someone when you attempt to persuade them. Like when you try to persuade someone you are implicitly stating "I know you are operating in good faith, and have the ability to discern truth". This gives them the ability to listen to you and say "nah, I don't think so", and they "win". After all, if you thought they couldn't be persuaded by facts, why did you bother in the first place? Attempting to retract the credit you gave them after they "rule against you" by saying "nahh I don't think so" just comes off as sour grapes. We've been very publicly making this mistake the entire time I've been politically aware, thinking back to "evolution vs creationism" debates where we thought we would prevail through sheer "facts and logic". It's part of the wider intellectual difference between us and them. We generally try to collect accurate information to arrive at a coherent mental model of how the world works. They seek only to sincerely believe that which is politically expedient for them to believe. This is why they consider trump "strong". He's absolutely unbothered by reality. Lesser conservatives will trip up as they try to confidently espouse all sorts of beliefs that can't all simultaneously be true, and which don't match their actions, etc. Not trump.
I remember being at a DEAD KENNEDYS show hearing a middle-aged person scream out "STOP GETTING ALL POLITICAL!!" Like did the name of the band not tip you off???
That's probably an ordinary DK fan with their snarky sense of humour, tbh
@@billhicks8 I wish that was the case but they were definitely angry drunk heckling like a bogan, sadly.
Saw an old dude bring a whole sheaf of materials expecting a q&a session at a Jello presentation of Machine Gun Clowns Hand years ago. Still confused about what he might have been thinking
That is kinda funny tbqh
I really like jello biafras attitude. I think he is unlike a lot of prominent people in punk music in that he is highly, highly politically engaged. Not in the sense that he is just screaming fuck the man all the time but he has a genuine desire to understand and work with the systems and institutions of American politics.
I like to imagine Anthony and FD kick their feet back n forth and giggling like schoolgirls whenever they're planning a video over the phone.
Are you weird
"Heeeeey Tony!"😻
"Heeeeey Fiq!"😻
They color coordinated - red black and green
In italy where i live the extreme left youngs movement [that in the '70 produced most of the best italian music] did not liked the moderation of the italian Comunist Party. But when the greatest C.P. in Europe lost its political ideals and became a liberal party the radical movements lost progressively their power and finished completely when the right governrment was beating a lot of people and killed a guy during a great anti G8 meetng in Genoa, plus it was done without a real opposition to the government decisions by the ''so called'' left parties.
In the last years Us Dem have signed all the worst disasters around the world, giving to the countries they moved war a violent death to innocent people and all kinds of instability and economic deseas to survivors. Have we to consider left wing only for promoting the pro-trans bizzarries or the devastating choices of green agenda?
Do you know that while Europe is near an economic collapse that will make grew corporations again and will make poor much more people than now and also thoseones who will have still a job, in Russia they're trying to re-balance the crazy economic differences between second class and billionaire oligarks?
Western left wings seem corrupted everywhere so.. plus the young scholars are not prepared to think with their heads but they learn for the most to repeat and repeat wrong theories and having lessons that seem big pharma's spots.
So i'm really not surprised if they vote for Trump as the less bad candidate. No surprize that they hear and produce the less bad music they can.
But I m not surprized too if they are going to a racial civil fight all over our countries: divide and conquer someone says it was created by my old grandaddies but i really think it was much more ancient as political strategy to rule the world
FD is a vile racist
“Y’all don’t hear me y’all just wanna dance”
shake it like a polaroid picture
You heard his flute album? That's my nap soundtrack 2024. Easily my most slept on album of the last year.
@redlion145 that album slaps feels mystical listening to it
You mean the way 98% of Americans don't care about "hearing" from any dirt poor/homeless people until they're facing a possibility of joining their ranks?
"He's the one who likes all our pretty songs, and he likes to sing along, and he likes to shoot his gun. But he knows not what it means"
Punk being understood as the culture of just pissing people off is eye-opening. It shows how much some people reflect on their surroundings.
To be fair, some early punks did transgress for the sake of transgression. That's why we got the infamous Nazi Punks in Britain in the 1970s. Leftist politics have always been a part of the movement (The Clash were probably the biggest mainstream punk band of all time and their politics were no secret) but it tended to prioritize populism and being anti-establishment above ideological cohesion, letting some bad actors get in.
capitalism commodifies everything, including the resistances against it.
@@akv-e5tfor real. You can find a crappie made t-shirt for almost any sort of sentiment under the planet
It's always been stereotyped as that, it's the main reason it even blew up, the UK bands like the Sex Pistols just took that shock factor to the next level. If it remained a more nuanced movement it would have never taken off
@@kelechi_77 sex pistols is incredibly political, though - they have songs talking about how they hate the monarchy
This reminded me of that one tweet that was like "tpab was never meant to be political yall just forced yall beliefs into it"
that can't be real. It has the freakin white house on its cover.
@SavageGreywolf I saw it on r/playboicarti
@@alphalax7747the most educated space ever
I thought the same thing, but people saying "Metal Gear is apolitical."
@@paiten-nr2do tbf the caption was like 'worst tweet of all time' even they knew it was stupid asf
"Imagine there's no countries" Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee quoting John Lennon as he explains why he doesn't support Palestinian statehood
based Mike Huckabee? 😮
we're living in a parody
But America first.
But no nations.
But America first.
Do you think he'll get it?
@@communist_kirbynah, just cringe.
@@communist_kirbyJust quoting Lennon doesn't make him less Lenin.
We have an Australian version of this is. Former conservative Prime Minister John Howard repeatedly said his favourite Midnight Oil song is "Beds are burning" (a song about Indigenous land rights) while simultaneously refusing for years to issue a national apology to the Aboriginal people for the stolen generation.
i read the first sentence of this and went "this is about Midnight Oil isn't it" an an american their whole existence feels insanely political that I can't imagine an elected conservative could like them without missing the point.
To be fair, everyone's favorite Midnight Oil song is "Beds Are Burning".
@@hobyahobya125 Prefer "US forces" personally
@@tino6440 I'll check it out!
Former UK PM David Cameron loved Eton Rifles by the Jam 🙃
It's the same with The Boys; took conservatives 3 seasons to realise the show was mocking them and that Homelander isn't the hero of the story😂
I disagree. They simply thought he was awesome. They ignored his problems and stuck with his "virtues". These shows try to humanize the facist and understand how they become what they are. What they get is that they are justified to be facist. These shows tend to present facism as cool. As much as they criticize if you chop down the length of the media it is mostly saying facism is kinda cool. FD goes into that in his video "Edgelord Movies Finally BROKE ME!!!". I also recommend "The Simpsons and the Death of Parody" from Jonas Čeika
I dont think they are as stupid as you think they are
@@rmv9194 you say that, on a video about conservatives being too stupid to realise RATM are left wing😂😂😂
They're definitely as stupid as I KNOW they are.
@@bernardeugenio The Boys isn't saying fascism is cool lmao, there's plenty of media that applies to but The Boys isn't one of them; it's actually very explicit and on the nose with it's politics from the start. Any misinterpretation of that is media illiteracy.
@@rmv9194 he says, on a video about conservatives being too dumb to realise RATM are left wing😂
They are definitely as stupid as I KNOW they are.
I think Rage is popular among conservatives because the band is so good that most people probably don’t listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it’s not just about the pleasures of rebellion and the importance of independence. It’s also a political statement on the country itself.
I know you did an American Psycho reference as a joke, but Patrick Bateman would totally blast RATM without understanding or caring about his role in the cogs
Hey Paul! (Ryan)
The message is to rebeel, unless Trump says to get a pharmaceutical product. Than listen to the establishment.
Bro it doesn't matter if the occasional lyric is communist in nature, you thinking all Republicans are rich its like from the stone age. A lot of the lyrics in rage songs are revolutionary. Lyrics about truth to power, about waking up about the evils of the system, its appealing to rural whites who feel that government hates them, who they are, rural whites are obsessed with revolution and change, they did January 6th because inside each of them is hatred of government and Trump said election may have been stolen and so they wanted to lash out.
Same hatred of RATM of government they have. BLM and Jan 6th it is all about the same sickness of whatever they see evils.
@@robertholston4708 I don't remember antivax views ever being part of RATMs message. Now let's talk about the opioid ciris and the prices of insulin.
“White supremacist Reggae” sounds like something you could only find in a Dave Chappelle Skit
tbh White Supremacist Reggae sounds like something Dave Chappelle might listen to these days
I miss old Dave Chappelle. The version today is unrecognizable
There is a certain reggae singer from Chicago who makes zionist reggae songs supporting the annexation of the west bank and how it's anti-Semitic for Palestinians to have basic human rights. I guess white supremacist reggae isn't that far off.
@@DefenestrateYourself Or maybe he's stayed consistent but youve shifted with the tides
@@DefenestrateYourself Didnt you love it when the old Dave made fun of crackheads, the hadicapped, the disabled, gay people (sissy fight anyone lol), black nationalists, and women consistently. But society was okay with you liking that back then.
I liked FD Signifier before he went woke and started talking about politics, just like I liked Fantano before he got all artsy and started talking about music.
You had me in the first half ngl
@@nicolasrieldFD Signifier is actually woke though 🙄 he dislikes Carti slaaaaatttttt (are we still doing that as carti fans?)
@@mocapcow2933 no
😂
What do you mean "went woke"?
Rage had communist stars plastered all over there outfits and Instruments during shows. Even beyond lyrics, I can’t think of a band that have made their political beliefs any more obvious than rage..lol
Edit: apparently they were “Zapatista” stars, which further proves that even “left”rage fans (me) can easily still miss the point sometimes. My bad.
Selling Communism for cash.
They were further left than Bernie Sanders.
Those were Zapatista stars. The Zapatistas are metal af.
@@bobabubbletea393Bernie isn't a leftist, he just wants america to have basic rights that the rest of the first world has had for decades.
the song talks about crosses! it’s for good christian’s you see
I believe the lack of media literacy and the ability to analyze art, is bred from the inability to empathize and think abstractly. I see a lot of conservatives (not just) think of things very two-dimensionally. There’s a weird disconnect between others and their own perception.
Lack of empathy is a pretty core conservative value
I would consider myself a moderate conservative, and this couldn't be farther from the truth. I love music and analyzing lyrics and all that, and I have plenty of empathy in my heart. The problem is that the modern left thinks "empathy" means bending to the "oppressed/oppressor" mindset and seeing yourself (assuming the person is white or whatever) as totally privileged and must be held responsible for the actions of people you've never met who just happen to look like you. And on top of that seeing other people you know nothing about on a personal level who just happen to fit in a few identity boxes as victims is what's considered "empathetic", and if you don't do this then that makes you a bigot. This goes into something that I've thought for awhile, and that's that liberals are their own worst enemy. Because they constantly alienate people with their rhetoric before they even get the chance to convince people of their mindset, they lose the opportunity to actually change minds, and is why they are losing the culture war right now. I honestly could go on longer, but who has time for that?
Ok, sure. I agree that is the wrong framing. However, empathy and acts of kindness shouldn't be a chore or something people feel like they have to make up reasons for anyone to do. Maybe a better way of framing it is how can you work to help cancel out the harm and evils others have caused? Something, something, that old expression of leaving a place better than how you found it? Idk. I'm starting to feel like everyone, me included, can do better.
@@ethand.5506 way to prove a point
@@TKO_CEY How
There’s Death of the Author, and then there is Reader is Stupid.
If you're reading this, please like this comment so It'll be noticed.
On the topic of conservatives listening to left leaning music, more specifically police . I HIGHLY suggest people go over to a channel "That Dang Dad" And watch his video "Why do cops like anti-cop music" He talks about the time when he was on the police force and how other cops would listen to left/Anti-cop music as a way to say "fk you". He thought of himself as being" one of the good one" Because he knew what bands like rage were talking about. He wasn't a racist , he didn't racially profile people. Only to have an epiphany later in life that it doesn't matter if he was "one of the good ones" because the system that is designed to oppress people didn't need his participation. It's a really good listen.
thanks for the rec!
I second this comment, that dang dad’s video is great :)
Awesome. I'll be checking that out. Thanks.
👀 (reply to boost this comment to the top)
Thank you, that was a great video!
Unc on Unc dialogue, unprecedented
Uncprecedented
Geezer off
Unc Debate
They’ve collaborated before though
Let's argue: melon is not an unc. Cool older cousin. Big homie. Sure. Not an unc.
I listened to the first RATM record yesterday and I got a little choked up. It's heartbreaking to hear such a passionate message, know that it was heard by millions, and see where we are 32 years later.
Cause people don't fucking read. It shouldn't start and end with RATM. If people who were listening and understanding the lyrics weren't picking up Marx, Lenin, Fanon, Chomsky or any another author materially critiquing capitalism, there was no hope to begin with
Even the album cover is a lot. I can't help but think about what Paul Ryan would say about the courageous man who self-immolated in Washington to protest the Armed Forces' complicity in the Palestinian Genocide. I know it's difficult to be shocked nowadays by extreme action, but that album cover is genuinely horrific and meant to beoadcast exactly what the band is about.
Well, blame that on the lack of actual bands that spread these kinds of messages now. You can say the same about the Dead Kennedy's which made fun of the right and the left equally, because anyone with a brain knows that none of the sides are the good side.
@@AgentLemmon the Dead Kennedys? The ones with the song called "Let's Lynch the Landlord"? You think they were making fun of the left?
@@AgentLemmonthey were making fun of the right and the neo-liberals (aka another form of the right- the Democratic Party). They ARE the left
Here in Brazil a while back people were shocked and frustrated (some "demanding" ticket reimbursement) because they went to a ROGER WATERS concert and deemed it too political
Bro what. Naaah. Media literacy straight up dead
Similar thing when i stumbled upon a comment complaining how Julian Casablancas "went woke" 😂
I miss the days when Pink Floyd just made a concept album about some cute animals instead of being political smh… No I haven’t read the lyrics of that album, why do you ask?
It must be a conservative thing. They probably know that most artists are left -leaning and turn a blind eye to it until it smacks them in the face. Lefties are the opposite, for better or worse. I got 1/3 into "Rich men of Richmond" before the dogwhistle got too loud.
'the wall' as in hiring someone to build the walls of your house in a suburban part of the city
The irony of them talking about how we don't take anything seriously and looking at the comments, where almost no one is taking it seriously, is insane
Same was true for when he released a standalone video on the same topic about three weeks ago.
The internet as a whole has become this weird post-ironic, hyper-aggressive, wannabe-intellectual mess as of late. Simply spending time on one of these sites has become such a massive drag.
It's unsurprising people use it that way when it's such a low-value place to express yourself. I like to think it's good that this environment doesn't have the same safe and candid feel as an AA meeting, because I really would despair at the lack of creativity and variety if all comments were sincere engagement with the topic. I don't even think it would be a higher value place if that were the case - people mostly don't get out what they put into comments like these. It's probably more worth talking to a friend about it
It's not really irony if they call it out ahead of time. Just predictable.
It's not insane though. It checks out
@@sebastianfayle2066No,people being assholes isn't good.
Being a coward too afraid to care isn't good.
Never taking anything seriously isn't good.
I love Rage, but they were always about as subtle as getting hit with a brick to the face. The fact that someone could somehow listen to "Killing in the Name Of" and conclude that it somehow means "fight against the jab" or support conservative ideology in anyway is truly bizarre.
Seriously, what the hell did they think they meant when they said "Some of those that work in forces are the same that burn crosses?"
These people think Democrats invented racism so its not much of a leap to go wherever they want from there lol
They probably think it means politicians are also satanists who hate Christ
They don't pay attention to anything but the guitars and/or the anthemic sounding chorus. Most people are dumb and lack basic media literacy, and it's incredibly frustrating
Their brain stops at
Force = Good
Cross = Good
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 literally. They cannot string the words together as a solid thought, the thinking starts and stops at each fucking word.
Feel like this is partially caused by the "gatekeeping is terrible and you should never do it" thing. Like yeah you should try to understand a subculture before you make it your aesthetic
This honestly, there’s a reason “gatekeeping can be good actually” discourse came out of the Kendrick v Drake beef
Social media killed gatekeeping. Even Black metal has been completely overrun by hipsters.
@@Cdr2002 yeah everything is not for everyone. It's insulting to subcultures and scenes born out of pain or struggle or activism etc can just be co-opted by whoever likes how it makes them look like they have equal claim to it
@ absolutely, good way of putting it. One really good example is co-opting certain aesthetics tied to queerness (including punk) and watering them down at the same time that cisheteronormative culture is actively oppressing the same people who’s aesthetics are seen as desirable. The corporations trying to crack the code to “black art without black people” is another huge example
@@Cdr2002if a conservative wants to listen to rage against the machine they shouldn’t be held at the gates from liberal crybabies saying “BuT BUt YoUR ThE MaChInE” conservatives are people too… and they also might fully understand the song and agree with some of the songs points, Tom morello is not a saviour of the people by any means he’s a rich stuck up whiny man child…
Conservatism will NEVER be punk.
Conservative bros think that people being annoyed at you for being a POS is punk... when really it's a result of being punk. And it's a result of standing up against and interrupting oppression, threatening the status quo that benefits the rich. Not from being a POS.
@@Smits2656 bro delete it you giving me second-hand embarassment😭
@@Smits2656 he is the president, he is in charge of the political establishment no matter how it looks from the outside. your favorite politician is just another politician
@@Smits2656🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
conservatives and liberals will never be punk. Both are trying to weasel they're way into a culture that's nothing more than an edgy esthetic to them.
25:53 lmao i'm so glad you brought that up. It actually even blows my mind that so many white/rich people IN GENERAL(racist or not) latched on to reggae. Half the roots songs about liberation are so aggressively anti-whiteness/capitalism.
Someone once asked me what my least favorite music genre was and I answered “white reggae” and they went on a rant on why I should like it because it’s just “feel good music about chilling”
I literally had to tell someone this morning that RATM got banned from SNL in their heyday for protesting the Republican host. Crazy how people either ignore that stuff or forget all about it
Also, one of their most famous gigs was protesting the 2000 DNC. They're both against the neoliberal establishment, which both parties represent
They were Protesting the Dick Cheney Type while the current Trump Idolater despise the forever war Cheney type.
@@daniellove162 Trump is a worse version of Cheney. The bush admin showed the republicans that they could lie and no one would care. They could completely fabricate the rational to got to war and be fine. They could call a hero who fought in Vietnam anti American in comparison to a draft dodger. Trump wouldn't be here without Bush.
And now they somehow think Rage endorsed Kamala (and Dick Cheney) because they vocally oppose fascism. Things are very black and white in some brains.
They criticized NBC's owners for producing the bomber aircraft used in the First Gulf War back in the 90s, hanging an American flag upside-down, too.
The producers quickly cut to commercial.
12:10 I went through elementary during the beginning of No Child Left Behind. I was talking to my mom about that, telling her she voted for this essentially. This is exactly the outcome you get when you ruin the education system for nearly 20 years.
I'm 31 now, essentially went through the same and I'll say this: no school curriculum or standards can compensate for the sheer nihilism I saw among my peers. Even if more rigorous standards were enforced they would have just dropped out, or if they were athletes that would have floated them. If I had any passion to learn or think critically I would think it was from my mom encouraging me to read from an early age. I don't know how a public school could possibly provide the same. We can also look at all the "boomers" and Gen X'ers you meet nowadays who have absolutely no critical thinking skills either and they were never subjected to No Child Left Behind.
@@TheApatheticGuy No Child Left Behind is not the sole cause of the problem: it is both a contributor to the problem and a milestone in the history of the problem. The contrast FD made with No Child Left Behind was specific to the contrast with its preceding era, as there were at least lessons in critical thinking and media literacy available for students who engaged.
I was in elementary during NCLB as well. I literally had a principal verbally abuse me because I was _too smart._ He didn’t like that my mom exposed me to critical thinking skills and being allowed to come to my own conclusions and form my own opinions before kindergarten. I was reading within the first few months of pre-K, and my mom often used examples of religious faith as me being able to make my own decisions (she basically said “I’m not going to direct you into any way of thinking - you choose what you want to believe in based on the evidence you see”). So when I was able to tell when someone was bullshitting me before I knew my multiplication tables, both my mom and I got a shitload of pushback by the head of my school.
It wasn’t even just doing a poor job of teaching students basic humanity - it was actively fighting against it.
@@ombrenightcores It is almost funny how right-wing politics always boils down to that.
I'm curious what states you all live in. I had a very different experience. I appreciate the elementary school I went to the most.
"Imagine there's no countries" blasting at Mar-a-Lago as America implodes
Blasting YMCA out your car speakers after you just made gay marriage illegal again
This legit sounds like the climax of a cynical indie art house political film that A24 or similar would put out.
So now I know what I'm making for night mind and his annual horror short film festival for Halloween next year. Thanks for the inspiration, I will make sure your name appears in the credits.
@@dangerxbadger2300 yw and good luck!
The rise of the whole internet subculture thing is a trip to me. I understand that there are some people who cannot make it to shows or plain don't have a local scene, but there's a huge disconnect between the kind of people I see in the reddit hardcore, skinhead, and punk threads vs the kind of people I actually encounter at shows and events. Sometimes I will see local drama online that I hear nothing about in person, and the drama that DOES happen at shows rarely makes it onto the internet. Like you'll never hear from the kid we actually kicked out. I wanna be generous and say that a lot of people are just so confused and alienated by our social media culture that they don't know how to meaningfully participate in actual culture, but oftentimes it just feels like people want the image and the "vibe" without putting any skin in the game.
You see this a lot in nerd spaces when people compare online to their convention spaces. I remember a lot of big talk from TH-camrs in the Godzilla community a few years ago about people online being toxic vs the kindness and civility of G-Fest attendees
@@Cdr2002 This happened a ton for metalheads back in the day and maybe somewhat today where people always acted like they were raging satanists, evil, etc then you go to a show and everyone is bros passing you blunts for free and picking each other up. I went to a Gojira show last year and a dude near me was wearing a jacket that said We kill Nazi fucks at shows. I sometimes think Mainstream media and certain groups that feel threatened by these things go around purposely spreading these baseless rumors just to discredit people.
The Internet is not the scene but the Internet can point you to it.
Tbf big subreddits are astroturfed
@@Comrade.Question absolutely! What I want most is for the kids to know they have a place in the punk, hardcore, and oi! movement, no matter where they first encounter it. If Tik Tok is where you first discover beatdown music, so be it. The important part is that you show up and participate, even if you feel out of place at first and just go home after the show. You show up, you keep coming back, and eventually that shit changes your life.
Listening to Rage as a conservative is so funny to me bro
Went to Coachella back in 2007, but I only went on Bjork’s headlining day (less than $100 for a one day ticket back then!), but all you had to do was hit up literally any online music forum around that time and the experience was universal: everyone was sick of Rage fans. Despite the leftist lyrics, the fanbase was the most obnoxious crowd of frat bros, and they even relentlessly boo’d the acts that came before Rage’s set since they all camped at that stage all day. Sometimes it doesn’t matter what your singer says, you can still end up attracting a fanbase of millions of meatheads.
I mean where have you been the last 10 years? Liberal democrats are now the new “right” in terms of censorship, and corporate boot licking. Just look at how many liberals are defending big Pharma.
DownUFO music is music, in a genre like that im suprised people think messaging or lyrics end up being everything to people, let alone assuming that outright.
My conservative dad loves bob dylan, go figure
Conservatives aren’t allowed to enjoy things. How dare they enjoy something despite their beliefs being not perfectly aligning with the creators!!!!!
This reminds me of the "I just listen to hip hop for the beat" crowd in the 90s when pressed about the misogyny in hip hop of the time.
A large portion of people only hear music. They don't actually listen to it.
An old episode of the 90s sitcom "News Radio" played off this idea. Phil Hartman's character got SUPER into hip-hop for a minute.
Then David Foley's character noticed that the treble dial was turned all the way off, and Phil was jamming out to the beat without any awareness that folks were rapping in the selfsame songs.
To be fair, "some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses" is pretty subtle songwriting.
"Shovel to the head" subtle
"Burning crosses" is clearly a metaphor for the persecussion Christians face in modern America.
"Rally round the family, with a pocket full of shells."
@@beefsnortI mean now that Christians are more oppressed then blacks the argument can be made
@@beefsnortbased take 😂
@@beefsnort or state atheism of Soviet Union
I like to imagine a conservative going into the record store in the early 90s to buy a Rage single and then ignoring how the cover for bombtrack literally has Che on it
They said he was a saint
But I know he ain't
They probably don't know that Che is a real person
@@aeoligarlic4024 or they had a Che poster, shirt and fridge magnet in colledge and did not at all clock the irony of commericalized products with his face on it
They would buy a Body Count album and only like it for the riffs, never mind "Cop Killer" and other tracks lol. They just conveniently ignore that.
Also a bit of the point here; i gaurantee in 2024 there is not a single normie under the age of 35 knows who Che Gurerra even is
Probably it will get mentioned after I post this towards the beginning of me watching, but that song from Nirvana is about just this.
"He's the one who likes all our pretty songs,
and he Likes to sing along
and he likes to shoot his gun,
but he knows not what it means -
knows not what it means..."
In Bloom
Don't know what it means
@@NateSmokes816 this is either a mandela effect or yanni/laurel thing lmao. Ive seen so many people say "knows not what it means" when writing out the lyrics but it so clearly says "dont know what it means"
@@BogotaLinemanThe point is the same. 😩
So cruelly ironic that the song is so damn catchy itself
I sorta agree with the anti-intellectualism amongst Gen z (I am one) but some pushback I would give is the reaction to the genocide in Gaza. Mainstream media and our politicians are trying everything they can to manufacture consent but young people have been some of the most vocal on the issue and most skeptical of those traditional influence structures (in this scenario at least).
That’s a good point
Being very vocal doesn't mean most of them agree. By numbers alone Gen Z men voted for trump enmasse. They are the big andrew tate and Adin ross fans. A large portion of them are morons. Every generation has a ton of morons though. This is...just unfortunately worse than usual.
The us govt doesnt actually need our buy-in anymore to be effectively just an arms dealer. So the propaganda is not for the ppl already supporting pal-estine
Its weird with Gen Z how that doesnt map across issues the same way it does with Millenials, who were more politically leftist, politically radical and bucked all trends about getting more conservative as they get older, but Gen Z is actually moving back to that. It's bad news for everyone really
@@mediumvillain Its completely due to the right capturing younger media for men. Blame Andrew Tate, Adin Ross, The "W Community" in general.
23:00 Re: conservative "goths," Lily Alexandre had a great video about this called "Millions of Dead Vibes." It's sort of about the way that modern internet culture minimizes subcultures into aesthetics, stripping them of context and history and leaving nothing but what's on the surface. It's a great watch.
When F D said Gavin Nuesome had to do Patrick Bateman stuff I imediately could see him murdering a homeless guy in a campaign ad and it running numbers
GRUESOME GAVIN 2028
legendary unc meetup, my ass is sat DOWN and i am listening
I love FD so much. I'm happy whenever I see you collaborate!
FD has a problem whith white people.
Its important to consider how many people listen to music without actually paying attention to the lyrics, much less the opinions people who wrote it. One of my girlfriend's favorite songs is Hunger Strike by Temple of the Dog. She loves that shit. When she hears it, she's not thinking of the message
I personally will hear a song and if i like it enough i will check out the lyrics. The music is just more important to me overall but everyone's different. Also that temple of the dog is great!
Right. I worked with a military obsessed dude who used to troll rooster by Alice in chains then I explained to him the story and he was immediately a huge fan 😂
Tbf many people loved the song (or hated it lol) Macarena, mostly the remixed version and not the original version. Both versions though, has the same message that basically says dump your boyfriend who's in the army and go out with me instead but because the song is catchy, it just flew over people's heads.
The answer to your question at about 2:10 is that a lot of people in this country really lack any sort of media literacy and the ability to absorb and analyze information. That's how we end up with conservatoids and liberals alike being all about RATM but not understanding what they're saying
I feel the "it's cringe to care" thing was sadly started by us millennials. A big cultural milestone of that early 2000/2010 era is South Park which is peak that. The whole premise behind south park is "no matter your political side, caring is lame, apathy is cool". And this sadly just go entrenched.
I'm glad I finally started to see how actually bad South Park was a long time ago and got off the bandwagon.
I remember them in their Waco/ATF episode commentary saying something like, "This is for our fallen brothers in Waco," and now I'm like, "you mean the gun stockpiling cultists with the pedophile leader? They're your brothers?"
Cruel jokes aren't really funny if they're just meant to wholly be transgressive, there has to be empathy in there otherwise it's hollow cynical douchebagness.
@@northernstepperz south park went woke. That is when ir declined
@@technobladeleakedclips1827 it was bad, it was always bad. The creators are incurious libertarians that think because they're American they're right. They're wrong.
I think this is true, but I feel like millennials also massively rejected it (as did the broader culture) in the early-to-mid 2010s. I feel like we've retreated back into the too-cool-to-care, "post-ironic" detached nonsense as a distinct new wave, not a continuation of the one we experienced growing up.
@@totlyepic your username is totlyepic
I worked out at a CrossFit gym 10 years ago. There were a lot of cops there that really liked rage against the machine, which makes in terms of message, no fucking sense. I chalked it up to people not listening to lyrics AT. ALL. and only honing in on the “energy”, because let’s be honest rage against the machine for working out rips. Regardless, it’s pretty weird.
When I saw FD in the thumbnail, I was worried something had gone down between you guys - so glad to see I was wrong!!! Appreciate you both so much ❤
funny how the kendrick lamar twitter community got flooded with trump supporters and they started calling others "sheeps in a herd" for agreeing with kendricks political views and calling tpab a "non-political" album
well, still they are right and all that blm stuff on his albums is ignorant
@@silentmode9025 Don’t listen to him then. My GOAT does not need ones in the white hood to like his music.
@@silentmode9025 ur stupid
Trump goths, punks, gangsters, etc are just Tom McDonald’s in different Fortnite skins.
lmao
😂😂😂😂😂
Not even multiple Tom McDonalds - it’s all just him LARPing
I also see this in the Star Trek community. There are a lot of white guys that complain about things like diversity and inclusion. That was a main component of it from the beginning.
I love that you are finally talking about this because I have been clowning on these types for the longest time. I think when it comes to Rage Against the machine, they really just like the part that says "fuck you I won't do what you tell me" because a lot of them have the ethos and personalities of actual toddlers. I think it's along the same lines of when I see cops with the Gadsden flag Punisher mashup. They don't actually understand who the Punisher is, they just like the idea of being able to engage in wanton, vigilante violence with impunity themselves. You know, like cops actually get to do for the most part...
When you two talk about how the Right Wing model of masculinity actually rules out a lot of Right Wing big names I think back to how the Alpha Male ideology demonstrated this
Their idea was the "best" man was an Alpha, leader of the pack type guy and the weakest was the subservient Beta but then they realised that almost none of them were leaders of groups and in fact often loners so they created the Sigma, the cool lone wolf who didn't need a pack but was still a badass or whatever. From there they spun off a whole silly Alphabet to include a range of types of guys they tended to conform to. Beta's were now the loyal and dependable guys who helped their brave leaders ("You're a beta and you're valid") with some new bottom rung and there's a Zetas and Theta and all kinds of stupid shit now. It just became the validating and inclusive "everyone is different and that's fine" ideology that they had once hated but way more convoluted and cringe.
Men left boys behind. These young men don’t have role models in their home. Podcast bros are raising America’s sons. How terrifying!
As part of gen z I heavily agree and feel very alienated within my own generation. I feel the lack of hope too but it's never turned me to abandon humanity
I actually feel a very similar way to you. I never really resonated with the typical attitudes of many men my age (22) and I’ve definitely gotten frustrated, but I could never go so far as to accept maxims like “humanity bad always”
There needs to be more musicians like RATM in the new generations. From my observations, gen Z seems to be a generation that is VERY AWARE of our current social and political situations. But when it comes to music, how come it's always the same ol conformist musicians like sabrina carpenter and maneskin?
@ hip hop fans of our generation have guys like Kendrick but for other genres I have no idea
Rock itself fading from mainstream prominence probably also has something to do with it
@@Cdr2002check out IDLES if you wanna hear a pretty explicitly leftist punk band
Just get based and stop being leftard
This is by no means a new phenomenon. (Edited because a point I was gonna make got made, that should teach me for not waiting till the end to comment) This happens because music is very good at communicating emotions and very bad at communicating ideologies. Emotions are universal so regardless of the message behind a song what is really going to resonate with people is how it makes them feel. My husband didn't realise a song he liked was in Welsh he'd been singing along with English words which sounded similar. That's an extreme example but it goes to show the length people will go to interpreting a song to line up with their own world view.
This is just the "Metal Gear is apolitical" argument, but again.
Metal gear is apolitical. It has nothing of substance to say about either side
People who claim Metal Gear is apolotical don't actually believe that, they're just lying.
@@technobladeleakedclips1827 Extremely low quality bait. Go away.
Plato wrote that poets must be inspired by the gods, given that so many of them don't fully understand what their own poetry really means. So, we've had this problem for a while, and the recognition of the "death of the author" has rendered it less persuasive to explain to listeners that they missed the intended message. People only care what the author intended when the author is on their side. PS: Also being around FD Signifier's age, my experience has been that anti-intellectualism has always been a theme in America. Richard Hofstadter’s classic Pulitzer-winning book _Anti-intellectualism in American Life_ was published in 1963, before my time. We're the nation of the Scopes Monkey Trial, and scientific literacy hasn't really penetrated the masses, as creationism is still a force. "Bookworm," "egghead," "nerd," "poindexter," "book-smart," "ivory tower," "geek," "smarty-pants," "Brainiac," etc., are terms for those who are educated and therefore there's something wrong with them.
Take Plato's opinion with a grain of salt.
Were talking about a guy who historically would wrestle people he couldn't verbally battle. 😆
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 All philosophical debates are most definitively resolved by wrestling. I think Socrates said that in Plato's _Republic_ somewhere.
“Republicans buy shoes too”
-Michael Jordan
At the end of the day, capitalism is issue
You’re about to get so many Halsey comments with this title 😭😭😭
Lmao i was thinking the same, thankfully haven't seen tone deaf comments yet
I still feel that needs to be addressed, I'm suprised there isn't more comments about that considering the onslaught of negative comments on the review itself
yeah, it's kinda detrimental to melon's brand to take a democrat-leaning position while disparaging an artist, even if it's not high art to most listeners
@@AGMadeItBratlordbeing a Democrat doesn’t mean he blindly supports all artists what
@@Lavender_enjoyer was referring to a certain great impersonator
I had not heard of FDSignifier before this video, but I'm a new fan. His arguments are sound, and his explanations are palatable. His vocabulary is honestly a pride; I love being involved in the conversation by using "obscure," specific words. Call it whatever you want, but talking about interlocutors becoming insolent as misguided fans is a subject that I find deeply intriguing.
I highly recommend his other stuff, he's got some really good videos about the intersection of politics, music, and culture.
I just turned 21 last month, and I've had a very nihilistic view and experience throughout my adulthood so far. I held on to the belief that nothing mattered so I just ended up numbing myself to everything. I spend so much time numbing myself instead of trying to educate myself and trying to be a better person. I lean politically left, but to be honest, I didn't vote, because I just believe that democracy is dead. I'm sick of feeling like I'm living for nothing, and I want to continue to develop positive ideologies. I firmly believe that music is something that brings people together. I appreciate Fantano and FD so much because I don't have people in my life that I converse with about politics and I love being able to see different ideologies and new ways of thinking.
As some one who lives the world of punk goth and metal who is also a artist I have to think about the symbols I use in my art. I like a little edge to say something. I think art has gotten dumber and therfore less interesting. The black mirror of politics is what makes art more interesting and more art. My friend lloyd from troma has made political art since 73 and his edge gets sharper has he gets older. I have learned alot from him. The cult of common sense kills any conversation on critical thinking. Tom Mcdonald is faux independent music. His art is a kiddie pool deep yet the redcaps eat it like the poison apple it is. What would jello say? Corperatonns just want money and their greed kills art. Product is just soilent green alternative. The right can never and will never be alt. Conservitives just want the cma. A origination that is killing music. Folk punk and country don't sound too different its just the politics that's the dumbest way go classify art. Keep the nazis out of metal like very that guy from all that remains and any nsbm artists they can sit at the kids table with 5 finger death punch. Keep metal goth and punk what it is so it can help those that need it and if you reject the culture just listen to screwdriver and leave us alone. Great conversation good Luck with dealing with Ronald the clown.
Wonderful conversation, I'll have to check out some FDs work. Hes really cogent.
This was a cathartic conversation i'm glad to have heard. It really helped me organize some of the frustrations i have with culture right now. The biggest irony is when i was in school i was like "fuck school, it's lame, i'm never gonna need to know this stuff" and promptly dropped out my senior year to do tattoos and party. But now i'm like "holy fuck we need so much more schooling, everyone's so dumb" Meanwhile schools have been defunded to oblivion and no one can afford to become a teacher.
The conversation about how shitty American education is and how it’s effecting kids is so accurate. I loved school as a young kid and was always trying to learn new things and had almost perfect grades, but as I moved into middle and highschool that just. Completely went away. I hated school and learning because.. it wasn’t about learning anymore. It was about memorizing what you were told and copying that down onto a quiz at the end of the week. It was about struggling through the tedium of homework everyday so I didn’t get a zero. It was about being obedient to authority instead of being creative and questioning things. By the time I got to 10th grade all I cared about was how I could put in the lowest amount of effort and still get decent grades, literally minmaxing my education because it was so uninteresting and never challenging in a way that was worthwhile. Now as an adult I’m finally rekindling that love of learning but I’m also suffering the consequences of a failed education. Recently I realized I don’t know how to sound out words because they apparently taught me sight reading instead of phonetic reading! I have no idea what learning strategies are most effective for me because I would just memorize anything I didn’t understand the night before the test and then immediately forget the information after the test. I’m really bad at making myself sit down and focus on one thing for long periods of time because I never cared enough about what I was learning to form that habit. Idk it makes me feel sad and like I missed a lot of opportunities because my education was not designed in a way that encouraged a love for knowledge or critical thinking or hard work.
You had shit parents it sounds like
THIS!!! I loved reading my whole life, and I remember thinking in high school that school was deliberately designed to get people to HATE reading. All the 'classic' books we were assigned to read were boring AF, overwhelmingly written by dead white men, and just not relevant to anyone or anything at that time (I graduated high school in 1989). Plus, I was in a supposedly 'good' school district. It's sad, and has been going on for a long time, and is not going to get any better.
If they're always going to co-opt our counter-culture aesthetics, maybe we should make intellectualism the new counter-culture.
That’s actually smart
I don’t know how to make it happen but it’s smart
Intellectualism has always been counter-culture. Have you ever heard of Galileo?
That's how we get Ben Shapiro faux-intellectual types, though.
Already happened. That's how we got Ben Shapiro. Don't recomend it.
Nah don't say Ben Shapiro to this. The point is to make deep reading and learning a counter-culture. Shapiro and his terrible novels do not apply.
Imagine thinking a rich guy who was born rich and is besties with other rich people who just buy off politicians isn't part of "the machine"
Your country needs preferential voting *so* badly. It doesn’t fix everything, but at least socialists running for election can explain why people should vote for them, and also why they should rank a Neoliberal Party higher than a Fascist Party. Preferential voting was introduced in Australia after two conservatives running for election got more votes collectively but lost to a Labor candidate who got a plurality of votes. If the GOP could give up on their primary process and just split between Trump lovers and Trump sceptics and run against each other, preferential voting might have a chance!
Love when these two link up, this is the kind of left-leaning discourse we need. Insightful without losing the plot & scaring the bros.
Scaring the bros 😂
Fantastic convo. I think there was an authenticity, on both creators and audiences that's also missing. Staying up late from getting sick and seeing "Freedom" on Matt Pinfield lead to me seeking out what AIM was and who Leonard Peltier was. The CD book for Evil Empire has a reading list that even broke, hood kids like me could seek out, and I don't think those mechanical affects exist now. Including people being receptive beyond, "Look at this post I saw."
when i was in middle school i thought the kids who thought ratm were anarchists and not communists were dumb but here we are
I’m afraid most people are just not political in the way Anthony or FD or Tom Morello are. That’s the long and short of it. Instead people hear messages like “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” and relate it to their own lives and beliefs. And you can’t control the course of such things!
Everything and everyone is inherently political. Even being "apolitical" is a political stance. Convincing people that there is an inherent enlightenment in "both sides make fair points" is just simply pro status quo, and it is embraced by the status quo. People have been convinced that being apolitical is somehow cool and smart, and they are always super smarmy about it. Little do they know they have been duped into giving up the fight to make political decisions that will serve them and their own working class interests.
Dude politics are complete BS. You've been duped into believing your vote matters. The reason we have the right to vote is so we THINK we have a choice. @@LeninCake
@@ElleEmenopyAre you genuinely advocating for ignorance? Are you genuinely of the mindset that politics begins and ends with a vote in an election?
@@DoomKid I'm being one hundred percent serious. Politics are akin to WWF wrestling. Clearly though, this concept is completely beyond your grasp, so I'm not going to get into it. Pity.
@@ElleEmenopylmao being this kind of apolitical is not that complex of a "concept" to "get a grasp on", you're just in your doomer era. It's not really groundbreaking or super intellectual, you're just allowing yourself to give up, to not add any depth to any conversation. How privileged.
This extends much father than just “politically edged” bands. Tv, movies, books, music, it’s all like this nowadays. People don’t look deeper
Irony has destroyed art and culture. Nothing is serious and if you care, you’re insane
Not new. Sloterdijk's Critique of Cynical Reason.
"Irony as infinite and absolute negativity is the lightest and the weakest form of subjectivity".
-Søren Kierkegaard
"During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the 'consolation' of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it." - Lenin
This is strategy by the ruling class, commodify and de-fang revolutionary art, movements and individuals. There is another great quote about this in Disco Elysium too.
Lenin was a piece of shit, and nobody should valorize his memory or his words.
Idk if fantano has always done these kinds of videos but I really love having a topic and then a discussion that’s extremely relevant. Love this and the Justin hunt video
The left doesn't need a Joe Rogan (we've got one, his name's Hassan), we need a David Peckar, a Rupert Murdoch and two Peter Tiels.
What about Soros
@@juanluisgalvezghiggo6618 Every movement needs money. Viveks daddy was a member of the Indian Mafia after all. and we all know about Elons riches. Even the proud boys had money from China! 😂
And a NRA
Clicked for fd
He's the man!
based
Thanks, I was just sat here wondering why you were here but now I know
I think the main reason people misinterpret the political stance of music made by far left leaning musicians is the US's absence of leftist representation in parliament when Dead Kennedys criticise the democratic governor or RATM continues to rage despite 2 Clinton terms. Republican conservatives interpret it as them being unhappy under 'far left' tyrannical regimes while they're actually complaining about the lack of social economic reform and faux progressive puppets funding the same discriminatory and inhumane police state and incarceration system their political opponents are because when it comes down to running the country the two parties hold very similar policies. But when stupid people hear music that is sticking it to the man they automatically assume 'Oh they're also unhappy with this democrat in office, we must think alike'
Dead Kennedys wwre based rightwing. They are not leftist
I was afraid Tom Morello said something stupid, had me scared for a bit there.
Tom morellos whole brand is saying stupid shit
i was afraid that tom somehow kinda turned, and talked shit about communism. i really hope this day never comes
@@technobladeleakedclips1827 cap lol cope n seethe
“Oh you wrote that song ‘Cult of Personality’? Omg when you said ‘Kennedy’ and ‘Gandhi’: SO true.”
"HEY! I know these people's names! GREAT SONG!" 🤡
We have to put on our clownshoes, jingle keys and use baby talk to get things back to a level where we can intellectual discussions is spot on unfortunately
No one mentioned the video of Bernie Sanders interviewing mall punks in 1988 which is pretty relevant to this conversation...
It's funny that this is happening again, when 8 years ago, tom morello, serj tankian, and a few other political musician were making posts like this and people responded like "oh here goes another celebrity trying to be political..." stuff along those lines. Like they were never listening. Zack de la Rocha repeats every line in killing in the name over and over again to really hammer home the point. But people just go, hey this is kind of funky. I'm ranting yes, but ratm and Tom morello specifically are the reason I ever picked up a guitar.
good stuff uncs, as a a slighty older head who was around when all these important music genres discussed were birthed, it has been perplexing and disturbing to see the levels of co-oping, that has gone on. Whats the answer? I think FD hit it when he was saying we need to move on and make more different new dope art . It's also not helping us that many of todays biggest "creatives" are super ignorant or just don't stand for nada, especially if it messes with their bag.
44:00 this is it right here. this wasn't a repeat of 2016. it's much more like what happened to Hubert H. Humphrey in 1968, where he was shackled to the unpopular policies of the Johnson administration and didn't do enough to distinguish himself from that.
Someone send this to all those upset trump supporting Kendrick Lamar fans on twitter
Kendrick is based rightwing. Drake is the leftist
K Dot has expressed that he does not like Trump in DAMN in XXX.
“Homicidal thoughts, Donald Trump’s in office”
“We lost Barack and promised to ever doubt him again”
He’s also best buds with Obama so idk why conservatives think Dot’s a Trump supporter.
The title has so many jokes you can make out of it, Judge Judy, Port Antonio and of course The Great Impersonator.
Judge Judy ain’t that serious 😂
i will never forget how massively Antony missed the point about Deftones' Genesis just 'cause the song's lyrics says "I reject both sides" and Fantano immediately took it as political rejection (and he critiqued it as stagnation in voting period) when the song, album and band has NEVER been affiliated to any politics per se and the lyrics were actually reflection of the band's internal conflict between Chino's and Steph's artistic visions.
@@joaquin5929he still missed the point tho
@@joaquin5929yeah i think the great impersonator review was worse
Judge Judy bro??? No way ur including Judge Judy in that lineup. Grating, unserious song
You can’t really blame people for not understand RATM when you didn’t understand Halsey, and said she had main character syndrome for having cancer.
It's like the aneurysm I almost had when someone tried to argue.. that the Republicans are punk rock
FD's literally glowing in this
we need media literacy in high school
Middle school*
No we don't. We already get enough leftard brainwashing
What do you think literature classes are for
“Media literacy is when people agree with me.”
Attention spans are cooked. Wouldn’t matter if it was taught anyway at this point. Middle schoolers gotta go vape in the bathroom
Whole point of Nirvana’s “In Bloom”
damn, i hoped i thought of this first! Exactly!
Hey Ya by Outkast as well. Just people who don’t care to actually listening to the lyrics lol.
On the point of Conservatives and creativity; I recently learned of a few talking points from Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer and The Nature of Mass Movements." Something that really stuck out to me is the theory that people prone to mass movements are usually less creative, as creative flow provides an outlet for frustration and boredom.
I've always wondered why the most outspoken conservatives seem to be the least creative people, and this notion finally provided a possible answer.
Speaking facts on people liking things just “for vibez”, people like their stuff very surface level
Music and art was always the reason that I never got negatively polarized towards words like communism and socialism. I was used to my artistic heroes being labled as such, and even having been punished for it. So, Ive always had a soft spot for leftism even before I got into politics. A lot of the best art, especially in the late 19th and early 20th century, was made by people who were radically left wing, especially by today's standards.
Radical left wing are just as unhinged as radical right that’s why it’s called “radical” these are the same people that identify as cats…
i was watching then realized this a whole hour video GODDAMN
I explicitly sat down and had several talks about intellectual honesty and debunking memes with my daughter starting from middle school and she eventually became an objective minded teenager. I’m a Gen Xer…too many of us let media and technology raise our kids instead of trying to equip them with the tools to properly contextualize information.
I’m a fan of both of yall and this talk was really helpful and somehow encouraging in the end despite it all. Thanks for this
Damn Anthony must have really messed up on that one review all the comments are about it lmfao
@@Fezaki he did and he still hasnt addressed it after 2 weeks
He reviews music?
@@existenzze7773Why does every minor thing need to be “addressed” nowadays
@@existenzze7773gonna cry?
@@existenzze7773 Who cares at this point? Just move on.
I'm seeing a lot of "solid pick bro" as the response to batsh!t things like the Gaetzkeeper being named as AG (don't expect the Diddler to last too long after that happens). The political sphere is shaped more like a turd lately and I am just baffled as to what is going on in my country. My advice, just keep listening to the new clipping on repeat. Thanks Anthony
Punk Rock has always been Left Wing .
just not liberal. it has largely been left wing from the most political incorrect angles
@@mediumvillainI mean, "not-zee punks fuck off" has always been a clear statement that would probably be labeled "PC" today
The Anarchist and Crust Punk scenes are hard left. Us modern day Deathrockers are also hard left.
Ever heard ofthe Dead kennedy's? Listen to holiday in Cambodja, and California uber alles, and eat some humple pie. Real punk is anarchist, and can't be pigeonholed in a political side.
@@AgentLemmonthinking that anarchy doesn’t fall on the political spectrum is very ironic in a discussion of media literacy
They don't care that they're wrong, they only care that you will care enough to point this out so they can just claim you're triggered.
Another factor to consider is summed up in the following quotation:
"The Philistine not only ignores all conditions of life which are not his own, but also demands that the rest of mankind should fashion its mode of existence after his own."
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
"good art" says SOMETHING to a lot of people. That's how we all agree it's "good". But WHAT IT SAYS depends on the definitions and feelings conjured up by the words in the mind of the listener, not the author. It might work lots of ways.
For example:
"Killing In The Name"
Killing in the name of [...who? stay tuned to find out]
Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses (x3)
[a true statement. Doesn't actually imply that either of those things are bad. Could mean "work forces some people to burn crosses", which is probably true, if you photograph Black Metal album covers for a living. Or "work" could mean what it does in a phrase like "work the body" in a boxing gym, and it could actually also mean that there are also some criminals in the Klan, alongside the cops. The hoods make it easier for everybody. I'm sure Tom Morello meant us too think all this. But if you use a strange phrase like "work forces", which is not common parlance, we get to figure it out. ]
Huh! [gutteral plosive]
Killing in the name of (2x) [...of who? stay tuned to find out. ]
And now you do what they told ya (x11) [ seem present progressive. Could also be imperative. seems pejorative, to "me", the audience, but I know where the song is going.]
But now you do what they told ya [the consequences of having done this is having done this.{0o0}]
Well now you do what they told ya
Those who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
[ this line, I think, is intended sarcastically, so it literally means the opposite. Tom Morello does NOT seem to think they are justified, if those who died are wearing bades, but he doesn't say that.
Also, it is customary for Jews to be buried in white shrouds, but that's only relevant if you think they have anything to do with this song. Gives this line a different twist. And that line about the crosses. And don't blame me for imagery he brought up.]
You justify those that died by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
[not the same line. Who is "you"? Is "you" "me"? "The Machine"? Am "I" "The Machine"? Is this "Rage" Against "Me"?
Anyhow, both of these lines are about "those who died", who are "justified for wearing the badge". So these who are being justified are cops who presumably perished in the line of duty, while wearing the badge. Is this about cops who kill, or killed cops? I'll go with it meaning "it's fine to kill cops", because Tom Morello, like you, thinks art needs to have offensive ideas in order to be "good".. No, it needs to make you ]
(x2)
Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses [see Above]
Uggh! [see Above]
Killing in the name of [see Above]
And now you do what they told ya [see Above]
And now you do what they told ya, now you're under control
[see Abov- oh wait. Whose control? Their control? if "I" do what "they" "tell" me to, "I" am under "my" control. It's not until they wrest me to the earth and lock me in the car that they have any control over me whatever, and they can never make me SAY what I refuse to say. But it is important to be under control, "your" control. So I think we can all agree with this.]
And now you do what they told ya!
Those who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites [ see Above]
Come on! [This is a reference to Cheap Trick. everybody knows Cheap Trick's work]
Yeah! Come on!
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me [ x however many times you want to. I love the idea that the guy screaming into the microphone onstage, or in a padded booth, is being "told" anything. "I" certainly wasn't telling him anything. But as a hook, who can deny it can be screamed by almost anybody at almost anybody else?
M**********r! [obligatory expletive]
Uggh! [gutteral]
Summary: Many people write songs that many people resonate with, accidentally while trying to write something that offends everybody. But why do you all know about this song, and him? Is it because "The Machine" has so much power that sucks for those who won't do what they tell them? Not in his case. It's like watching Franz Kafka miming being squashed by a huge boot. But everybody feels like a roach sometimes. See Psalm 22.
And we technically never found out in "whose" name the killing was done. So, separated from all the rest of RATM, (by radio waves or Limewires, for example,) you get to put in whatever name you want.
this conversation is what the culture needs. thanks gents. good listen so far.
I'm convinced that conservatives do stuff like this (missing an obvious point) to try to bait you into persuading them. I don't think the left understands how much power you give someone when you attempt to persuade them.
Like when you try to persuade someone you are implicitly stating "I know you are operating in good faith, and have the ability to discern truth". This gives them the ability to listen to you and say "nah, I don't think so", and they "win". After all, if you thought they couldn't be persuaded by facts, why did you bother in the first place? Attempting to retract the credit you gave them after they "rule against you" by saying "nahh I don't think so" just comes off as sour grapes.
We've been very publicly making this mistake the entire time I've been politically aware, thinking back to "evolution vs creationism" debates where we thought we would prevail through sheer "facts and logic".
It's part of the wider intellectual difference between us and them. We generally try to collect accurate information to arrive at a coherent mental model of how the world works. They seek only to sincerely believe that which is politically expedient for them to believe. This is why they consider trump "strong". He's absolutely unbothered by reality. Lesser conservatives will trip up as they try to confidently espouse all sorts of beliefs that can't all simultaneously be true, and which don't match their actions, etc. Not trump.