Thanks Ollie, i'm finally putting together my presentation of proofs for God and Judaism, and i will use some of your ideas, in my own unique rigorous approach. I notice a lot of your ideas echo Rabbi Kelemen's famous approach, which i also will bring as a central aspect. Keep up your good work!
This is poor reasoning. A claim for a national revelation can easily be fabricated in oral literature where you have a community passing on/developing these stories for a communal goal. You have failed to take into consideration that most oral literature that informs religious corpus is the work of an entire community and not a single individual, whereby all claims made in that corpus have already been approved the community for generations.
@@ninadeck3577 Plenty of “national relevations” in the corpus of Dharmic religions of India. Where God takes an avatar (Vishnu/Ram/Krishna/Buddha/Nanak) and speaks to all of Bharat (modern-day India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Nepal /SriLanka). I would accept a global revelation one in which there are various ethnicities and tribes across the world, not an isolated ethnic group or nationality.
@@josephsofaer841 First of all the whole point of the revelation at Mt Sinai was that it was only for one nation only. And there were about 3 million people of that nation there. Second the G-d you're talking about are idols/deities in human forms. Nobody ever said Brahma (the creator G-d of Hinduism) talked to the nation as a whole. Why would the real G-d (of your religion) need to take human form to talk to people ? Thirdly if G-d actually talked to all nations then why doesn't anyone of our grandparents talk about it as if it happened to their ancestors.
@@ninadeck3577 Regarding your first point is what I criticized in my initial comment - that a certain community can embellish these claims in oral literature to solidify their faith as being the “true” faith. I’m not only criticizing the Mt Sinai revelation but also the claims found in the various Dharmic religions. Secondly, Brahma is not God, he is an avatar (the creator), the other two being Vishnu (the sustainer) and Shiva (the destroyer). God is referred to as Para Brahman, and requires an avatar because God has no attributes, including voice, so requires an avatar to convey the message. Vishnu is the avatar in various forms that speaks to humans in revelation. But again, I find my own Dharmic religion flawed so wasn’t really making any claims of it being the truth, just giving you an example of national revelation found in another religion. God hasn’t talked to all nations, and there is no such claim in any faith, which is exactly why I don’t find any faith believable, including my own Dharmic faith.
yes, let's not forget that over 500 people witnessed Jesus alive after his crucifixion. It wasn't just his 12 disciples that saw him alive. This to me is a mass revelation and fulfilled prophecy.
@@BrianThomas 500 people can make something like that up. The Jewish revelation happened to every single individual of an entire nation...3 million versus 500.... absolutely no comparison.
@@1800Yanni exactly. Also, the event that the Christians claimed they witness was not a “mass revelation”, but rather a “physical miracle”, of which there is a distinction between the two defined by the level of supernaturality that a divine revelation possesses to be inexplicably higher than that of a physical miracle, I. E. A supernatural event perceived with the five senses instead of with the spiritual senses. th-cam.com/video/bqUF3vIiGsg/w-d-xo.html
I'm sorry but this is just simply "Not true". Christianity asserts that God revealed himself to the world as Jesus the Messiah. God incarnate! That He came to His own, "The Jews" and for the most part they rejected Him. John 1:10-13 NKJV [10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [11] He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. [12] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: [13] who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. The Jewish Messiah offering salvation to the whole world as a free gift, not by keeping the law of Moses. Because none of us can keep the law! That's why sacrifice had to be made to cover sin. God came into the world and sacrificed Himself for the sins of the world. John 3:14-17 NKJV [14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, [15] that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. [16] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [17] For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 1:29 NKJV [29] The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!. I'm sorry I've gone on a bit long, but this is far to important to get wrong.
Sorry, @Paula WallaceWallace but you are "SO WRONG." The whole point of the law of Moses is that it establishes the individual as a sinner Ex20 and so on,. And then establishes the sacrificial system as the means of atoning for that sin. all the sins of Israel were pawned of (To use your language) on an assortment of lambs, goats, and bulls, over the course of Israel's history. Countless millions of animals dying for sin. I would challenge you to read Hebrews Ch 10vs 1-12 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; 6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure. 7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’” 8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, Now, Paula, that's why Jesus the Messiah is so important because He Died once for all our sins, "The just for the unjust" He made "ONE" perfect sacrifice. Jesus the Messiah is the Lamb of God wounded for our transgressions and bruised for our iniquity as we are told in Isaiah 53v5 I hope Paula that has helped. if you have any questions please ask. but don't just dismiss this because your eternal life depends on it. Thanks for your comment. regards, John
Hi. Exactly what here is "not true"? You seem to be simply preaching church doctrines but this has absolutely nothing to do with the point of this amazing video and message. The point is how unique and believable the jewish religion is and how unverifiable every other religion is including christianity. (I'm not even going to go into why christianity is actually antithetical to what the bible teaches all over). There's no reason to believe what I am told happened with jesus any more than I should believe the story of Joseph Smith, Hare Krishna, Mohammed etc. They are all just as unverifiable and all based on total blind faith. The only belief system in the world that has ever existed that has almost no possible way of being fabricated is the claim made by judaism. That's the point. Now tell me again what is not true.
Dear even if agreed for the national revelation thing, why cant the possibility of Isa and Muhammed bringing the message in an updated version hard to digest? Because humans as we look into history has always been changing, creating their own versions of God’s msgs...so why God chose Moosa was the same reason to chose Isa and Muhammed as well...because the generations went wrong in somewhere regarding their beliefs...So to correct them AGAIN jst like Moosa did...and thats exactly why we Had Isa and Muhammed...bt yet again...Isa’s generation repeated the same mistake and Muhammed had chosen by God...and its clearly mentioned that he was the last messenger of all and the holy quran has presented to us if we have any doubts in the Msgs of God...and putting aside the three religions and jst critically analyzing the three holy texts...i do have a strong reason to believe in Quran...its proven and supported by Science and many scientists...dat surely is a sign of God...
So one mohammed can undo the revelation directly from G-d to 3 million witnesses? On what authority? And if this is true, why did he have to force his revelation on others by threat of death? This makes no sense to me.
@@cathysherman7876 Prophet Muhammad SAW did nothing out of his will, he was guided by the one and only God whom jews worship too. So the authority wasn't of Muhammad but of the creator! And he didn't undo anything, it is a simple fact that when the latest edition of anything comes the previous version automatically goes out of the usage. So simply when new laws were given by the God, the previous revelations be it Torah or Gospel need not to be followed.
Cathy Sherman U r highly mistaken...the prophet never ever forced Islam to any one...u can check the history...so please make sure u r right wen u openly blame sumthng on sum1...he didnt forced bcoz religion is a belief it can never be genuine if its forced on you...so vd Allah’s guidance he invited poeple to islam and never forced...
That is not divine revelation. Performing miracles are different and certainly not considered proof of divine manifestation - see Deuteronomy chapter 13 which says "1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul."
@@JTVGlobalJewishChannel Yes It is It is eye witness testimony Wether it’s Divine or not is irrelevant And to be clear. YOU are think it’s not driven Jesus was divine if he flew up to heaven in front of hundreds of people Same exact criteria you are claiming was sufficient for Jews
@@nomadicrecovery1586 they claim that 500 people saw him post revelation. What they don’t claim is that these 500 people consistently testified into the next generations after them to this event occurring, rather the Torah and the Jewish national tradition is that the millions who witnessed the events of Sinai transmitted their complete agreement to the statements of the Torah regarding these matters in every generation, from millions of Jews to millions of Jews, until this very generation. Because of this we are forced to rely on the claims of the apostles instead of the claims of 500 witnesses, which are still a smaller number of people regardless, as they make 0 claim that the 500 transmitted their testimonies into the generations after them like how the Torah claims that in every generation millions shall receive the testimony of the original 1mil+ witnesses to the events of the Torah. th-cam.com/video/bqUF3vIiGsg/w-d-xo.html Even if they did have a way to verify that they transmitted their testimonies into the next generations, 500 people is not a sufficient comparison to quite literally millions. We find many examples of 500 people being deceived or participating in a conspiracy to actively deceive others into believing something that is false constantly throughout history. This has never happened with millions, and we never find a point in history of which millions of people actively participated in the same conspiracy to intentionally deceive others after them. Secondly, that is not divine revelation. Divine revelation is when the infinite creator of the world, using his own divine voice, which is not that of a human being’s but rather that of a being which exists beyond time and space, to interact with a lower creation, typically a physical one such as a human being. That is what was heard at Sinai, something beyond space and time. The resurrection of a dead body was a physical event and has already been claimed in other religions, including Judaism. Hence, we find a clear distinction between “miracles” and “revelation”. Miracles occur under the scope of the five senses and in the physical realm, and revelation is perceived beyond the scope of the five senses and exists beyond anything in the physical realm. Transcending the idea of shape, dimensions, words, categories, properties, attributes, color, sound, etc., and is something that cannot be imitated by others aside from the infinite creator himself, due to the level of its supernaturality, being more “supernatural” in essence than any other supernatural event which has occurred in the history of the physical world.
I believe it could be true, but it is irrelevant as miracles prove nothing as he mentioned in the video. I have a different approach to this and similar question in a video i am working on which i hope to put out today or tomorrow, i would appreciate your questions on my approach as i'm trying to steel-man the arguments the best i can, and the best way to do that is have other people questioning and critiquing.
These are claims. Where's the proof they saw it? Sure you can say "People would say 'Hey we didn't see that.' " But that's not proof that it happened. That's just some dude on the internet's claim that they WOULD say that in response to it being false. There's not even any logical argument here. This is just unbacked claims and speculation.
@@tropicanaman4666 You mean evidence like the battlefields with musket balls, cannon balls, weapons, and bodies? You mean evidence like the countless SEPARATE independent sources FROM AROUND THE WORLD that it happened? You mean evidence like the photographs of revolutionary veterans? Like that kind of evidence?
eye witness History, just as you know as a matter of fact that George Washington was the 1st president... it was witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people
Nobody saw His face. Gentiles have the Bible, all of it and the 12 Tribes have had the OT and the exile to Neb's Babylon as the last big exchange with God. So far I see nothing that makes me feel left out, I actually have a book that is pretty clear about what will happen when God is involved and when He is not. When people are going into the grave and nobody is coming out then He is not involved. Any questions??
If the Torah is suggesting that “national revelation” will never be done again and that the only kind of being that can make such a claim would have foreknowledge of all of history, then it makes sense that Jesus would have to deliver the message differently, no? LOL Also, Deuteronomy 18:20 predicts a prophet such as Jesus and that’s why you guys deny the resurrection. You put him to death and he rose again proving his words true and the fulfillment of at least 300 prophecies.
We all put Jesus to death. Let's be real now. You're about one thing, but our Lord's crucifixion was due to all of our sins. His resurrection was because of who he is.
Sorry but when Moschiah arrives the yoke of the heavenly kingship is supposed to be incontrivertibly established, beyond a scintilla of a doubt. Not he heard that she heard that she had a dream a century before that an angel visited her and jotted it down mixed in with some archaic pagan tropes to increase receptivity. The nations are supposed to unanimously recognize that the Creator has ushered in a new age and made his presence known, akin to a divine revelation if you will
Also if the prophecies fulfilled are so true why does the Church have to resort to deliberate mistranslation and eisegesis of the original hebrew text? Could it possibly be because they are trying to reconcile their perverse narrative with a naturally uncooperative text, in an attempt to derive legitimacy from what was undoubtedly recognized as true?
Hey I have like 1000 followers on facebook! So I'm claiming to be twice the Son of God as Jesus was! No seriously, saw Jesus during his lifetime? How is it even a claim? And if you mean saw him resurrected, than I'll advise you to look again in YOUR scriptures: Matthew says he was revealed after his resurrection only to Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (Matthew 28:1-10), and then to the eleven disciples (Matthew 28:16-20) Mark and John say Mary Magdalene and the disciples (Mark 16:9-18, John 20:19-29) But Luke never mentions any Mary, just the disciples including Peter (Luke 24:13-35, 34, 36-49). So which one should I trust?
Only Paul claimed that there were 500 witnesses, and he did it to the galacians (if i remember correctly) who would have no way of verifying this, and had to rely on paul's word.
Joke? Just in case, the jews and israelites are the same people, the name jews was taken on later, as most of jews today are descended from judah, and also the fact that Judah means gratitude, which i gave a whole lecture or 2 on on my channel.
according to Christians: (it is not about Paul it is about Yeshua and) according to the Gospel our Father revealed himself also to the Jews again like the times of Mose. The "Magic Tricks" of Yeshua can not be recreated like while the "Magic Tricks" (WONDERS) of Mose could only partially be recreated. Neither are wonders alone of the Messia good enough reasons but that on what the Prophets said about the Messiah. That's why he exalted the Torah on Zion during his preaching and was against the man made Taqqanot. God of Abraham Itzaaak and Jakob bless you all continue your great work.
Paul's inclusion at 0:52 as an example of a sole person receiving revelation as the basis for Christianity is either ignorant or deceptive. Had Paul never existed, there would still have been a following of Jesus. Peter, James, John, and Jude also testify of what Jesus did as first hand witnesses of his life. Additionally, Mathew, Mark, and Luke provide witness accounts of the life and teaching of Jesus. To say Paul is a single point of God's revelation for Christians is like saying Moses was the single source for Jews... in fact, what other witness account do you have to support the claim God reveled himself to 3M people besides the writings of Moses? Maybe Joshua? Anyone else? Certainly not 3M signed affidavits. Jesus existed. He was reveled to thousands of people during his time on earth. To everyone who witnessed a miracle during his life, and to everyone who saw him alive after the crucifixion. Not to mention that his apostles performed miracles also, a sign to anyone witnessing them that what they spoke of was true.
Looks like you were so upset about the reference to Paul that you missed the point of the entire video. Start watching here 3:45 so as to avoid the distraction of Paul These Jews do seem to waffle on a bit at times and distort the focus on the point they attempt to make. It is a fact that quality control takes a huge nose dive with Christianity as far as the verification of the writings go. However, it is up to the reader to discern if Jesus is a valid continuance of the Tanakh or a fraud. As far as I'm concerned, this is the same as when you leave school and enter university - you are left a lot more to your own devices.
@@hosh1313 Thank you for the comment and recommendation. I took your advice and watched from the timestamp you recommended. I would not characterize my response as "upset," more bewildered by the implication the video was making.
@@marktester5799 Yes, the Jewish are very self righteous yet have no explanation as to why "their" God has failed to remove Christianity from "their" bible. :)
Hi Mark, I hope you are well. Just a couple of thoughts about what you said: -The gospels (which according to all accounts were written decades after the death of Jesus) do not say anywhere in them that they were actually written by Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. That is relying on a later tradition in the church and there is no reason for someone on the outside to accept them. -You ask what other witness accounts we have to support the claim God reveled himself to 3M people besides the writings of Moses? We have the testimony of a nation. The account of what happened to the entire Jewish people was passed down through three methods: A written document- handed to the people who were there at the time and preserved throughout the generations, It was also passed down orally from generation to generation, as well as by the people taking on a lifestyle that reflected what they had been through. As a Christian, you believe this too. -You mentioned that people seeing Jesus or the apostles performing miracles is a proof for the truth of their claims, but see Deuteronomy 13 where is says that G-d will also allow for false prophets to perform miracles, and also see (Exodus 7: 11-12,22) where we see G-d allowing Pharaohs magicians to perform miracles. So we see that performing miracles doesn’t prove anything. You as Christian would agree with me about this
Bro I'm sorry to burst your bubble honestly but if you want the absolute truth moses went up in the mountains for 40 days and made Aaron watch over them but when moses came back with the revelation the people of isreal were worshipping a golden cow which makes a lowly sound, and moses got so outraged he threw the torah on the ground and approached his brother like "WHAT DID YOU DO I SAID TO WATCH OVER THEM" Aaron was like "brother do not blame me for they would have killed me If i tried to interfere" the people of isreal then saw moses and were like oh crap we are very sorry for what we have done and asked for forgiveness but yet they had crossed the ocean and that wasn't enough for them to keep faith in moses for 40 days while he was gone but continuing the story they were forgiven and taught the broken pieces of the torah speed up to moses and his death the people of isreal (majority) had left moses teachings and his belongings untill David brought it back and then was the time of Solomon where after solomon's death the temple was destroyed because the people at the time were not worthy of its existence without Solomon for they would abuse it and then when the army came to kick them out the "torah" was scattered all over the place so they had one dude gather missing pieces and try to reconstruct but they had misplaced and already altered much of what the original torah moses had- the original torah is long gone and the current torah is a mixture of lies due to the fact the original torah said to follow jesus and even to follow Muhammad but when they saw that jesus and Muhammad are not Jewish they denied them like they denied and killed many other prophets in the past - they abused the guidance of moses to hold on to this worldly life and thus are a people who should rather then sink deeper in the mistakes of their ancestors go on to accept the truth and follow Muhammad for he is the last of the prophets who brings good tidings and is a Warner to the people
@Strava 89 seriously an illeterate man out of no where bringing nw religion . we dont need to see the god to believe in him fr the god belief has passed to.us through isa or jesus. fr more justification the q quran is the only holy book which do have human interference in it and moreover the scientific.facts in quran is 80% proven to be.correct by modern scientists and the rest 20% is not proven wrong too, tell me how can a man of such a poor backround bring up a new religion and holy book with such perfection without the aid of allah the only god
@Rosa Lina in fact you are right jesus was jewish but he was a shepherd and that is what made the rich jews at the time ignorant enough kill the poor servant of god jesus
Hey CHRISTIANS HAVE CLAIMED GOD HAS SPOKEN TO THEM THE SAME GOD AS THE GOD OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE, I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST YOU READ THE NEW TESTAMENT. SHALOM
Oh sure but which one of them? Luke's or John's? Or should I start with Matthew's? I don't know there are too many contradictions between them so give me the only one you believe is valid.
We in Islam believed that god send a very clear revelation with all Jews in the Sinai mountain with the Torah and we all Muslims believe it's true. God in the Quran said it's true, however the Jews never saw god not even Moses did. they asked to see god but they killed before that and revived. you can read the Quran for more details.
Yeah that's exactly what is told in the Torah "and the Lord said to him, Go down and warn the people so they do not force their way through to see the Lord and many of them perish." (Exodus 19:21)
Eze:37 is the resurrection passage, it is for all 12 Tribes. There seems to be two types of Jewish people in the NT. Ac:28:20-24: For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain. And they said unto him, We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee. But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against. And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
Deuteronomy 7:6, For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession. So yes, GOD chose the Jewish people!
An-Naml 27:9 يَٰمُوسَىٰٓ إِنَّهُۥٓ أَنَا ٱللَّهُ ٱلْعَزِيزُ ٱلْحَكِيمُ English - Tafsir ibn kathir O Musa! Verily, it is I, Allah, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. Qurʾān Allah told him that the One Who was addressing him was his Lord Allah, the All-Mighty, Who has subjugated and subdued all things, the One Who is Wise in all His words and deeds.
@Adam Brodman One person that received the message...... often in public. If so many Jews heard Gods voice on Mt Sinai why were the others busy making a Golden Calf at the same time?
@@mdizzle7034 there were 3000 people who worshipped the calf. That is 3,000 out of the millions present at Sinai, and they were executed prior to the revelation of the divine voice.
@@mdizzle7034 secondly, he “received the message in public”, as in people heard Muhammad repeating this message. They didn’t hear God speak for himself according to Islam
It’s also very pretentious that you deny the Messiah Jesus Christ and then pretend that Christians don’t fully believe in Deuteronomy and the Old Testament aka “Torah” as if your religion is the only one that “has a national revelation” and we just change it up when you’re the ones picking and choosing OT scripture.
It seems to me that Matthew doesn't follow John, who doesn't follow Mark who doesn't follow Lucas... So why should I even bother following any of them anyway?
No mohamd never prophet we even don't accept him as human being he did alot of bad things he was selfish he had sex slaves and married his adopted son wife and convert people by force and make them pay tax your Quran also teach beating killing apostates and more things
Excellent presentation. Thank you from NC, USA.
Thanks Ollie, i'm finally putting together my presentation of proofs for God and Judaism, and i will use some of your ideas, in my own unique rigorous approach. I notice a lot of your ideas echo Rabbi Kelemen's famous approach, which i also will bring as a central aspect. Keep up your good work!
This is poor reasoning. A claim for a national revelation can easily be fabricated in oral literature where you have a community passing on/developing these stories for a communal goal. You have failed to take into consideration that most oral literature that informs religious corpus is the work of an entire community and not a single individual, whereby all claims made in that corpus have already been approved the community for generations.
So the Jewish bible is a conspiracy by all Jews against the rest of the world?
You are as creative as you claim the Jews to be!
If it is so easy why isn't there any other religion claiming that ?
@@ninadeck3577 Plenty of “national relevations” in the corpus of Dharmic religions of India. Where God takes an avatar (Vishnu/Ram/Krishna/Buddha/Nanak) and speaks to all of Bharat (modern-day India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Nepal /SriLanka). I would accept a global revelation one in which there are various ethnicities and tribes across the world, not an isolated ethnic group or nationality.
@@josephsofaer841 First of all the whole point of the revelation at Mt Sinai was that it was only for one nation only. And there were about 3 million people of that nation there.
Second the G-d you're talking about are idols/deities in human forms. Nobody ever said Brahma (the creator G-d of Hinduism) talked to the nation as a whole. Why would the real G-d (of your religion) need to take human form to talk to people ?
Thirdly if G-d actually talked to all nations then why doesn't anyone of our grandparents talk about it as if it happened to their ancestors.
@@ninadeck3577 Regarding your first point is what I criticized in my initial comment - that a certain community can embellish these claims in oral literature to solidify their faith as being the “true” faith. I’m not only criticizing the Mt Sinai revelation but also the claims found in the various Dharmic religions.
Secondly, Brahma is not God, he is an avatar (the creator), the other two being Vishnu (the sustainer) and Shiva (the destroyer). God is referred to as Para Brahman, and requires an avatar because God has no attributes, including voice, so requires an avatar to convey the message. Vishnu is the avatar in various forms that speaks to humans in revelation. But again, I find my own Dharmic religion flawed so wasn’t really making any claims of it being the truth, just giving you an example of national revelation found in another religion.
God hasn’t talked to all nations, and there is no such claim in any faith, which is exactly why I don’t find any faith believable, including my own Dharmic faith.
this video is just pretending christianity doesnt exist huh?
yes, let's not forget that over 500 people witnessed Jesus alive after his crucifixion. It wasn't just his 12 disciples that saw him alive. This to me is a mass revelation and fulfilled prophecy.
@@BrianThomas 500 people can make something like that up. The Jewish revelation happened to every single individual of an entire nation...3 million versus 500.... absolutely no comparison.
@@1800Yanni that shouldn’t even be a rebuttal. the rebuttal should be something like.. the new testament was doctored and disingenuous.
@@1800Yanni exactly. Also, the event that the Christians claimed they witness was not a “mass revelation”, but rather a “physical miracle”, of which there is a distinction between the two defined by the level of supernaturality that a divine revelation possesses to be inexplicably higher than that of a physical miracle, I. E. A supernatural event perceived with the five senses instead of with the spiritual senses.
th-cam.com/video/bqUF3vIiGsg/w-d-xo.html
Is there a Bangla version of the Torah?
lol
Islam isn't an offshoot of Judaism, but of Nabatean paganism.
You can read the Quran from one end to the other and you will look in vain for the Name.
I remind you that Jethro, a Midianite, guided Moses spiritually. Us Israelites have a strong connection to the Midianites.
I'm sorry but this is just simply "Not true". Christianity asserts that God revealed himself to the world as Jesus the Messiah. God incarnate! That He came to His own, "The Jews" and for the most part they rejected Him.
John 1:10-13 NKJV
[10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [11] He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. [12] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: [13] who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Jewish Messiah offering salvation to the whole world as a free gift, not by keeping the law of Moses. Because none of us can keep the law! That's why sacrifice had to be made to cover sin. God came into the world and sacrificed Himself for the sins of the world.
John 3:14-17 NKJV
[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, [15] that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. [16] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [17] For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 1:29 NKJV
[29] The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!.
I'm sorry I've gone on a bit long, but this is far to important to get wrong.
Sorry, @Paula WallaceWallace but you are "SO WRONG." The whole point of the law of Moses is that it establishes the individual as a sinner Ex20 and so on,. And then establishes the sacrificial system as the means of atoning for that sin. all the sins of Israel were pawned of (To use your language) on an assortment of lambs, goats, and bulls, over the course of Israel's history. Countless millions of animals dying for sin.
I would challenge you to read Hebrews Ch 10vs 1-12
For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,
“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”
8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
Now, Paula, that's why Jesus the Messiah is so important because He Died once for all our sins, "The just for the unjust" He made "ONE" perfect sacrifice. Jesus the Messiah is the Lamb of God wounded for our transgressions and bruised for our iniquity as we are told in Isaiah 53v5
I hope Paula that has helped. if you have any questions please ask. but don't just dismiss this because your eternal life depends on it.
Thanks for your comment.
regards,
John
Hi. Exactly what here is "not true"? You seem to be simply preaching church doctrines but this has absolutely nothing to do with the point of this amazing video and message. The point is how unique and believable the jewish religion is and how unverifiable every other religion is including christianity. (I'm not even going to go into why christianity is actually antithetical to what the bible teaches all over). There's no reason to believe what I am told happened with jesus any more than I should believe the story of Joseph Smith, Hare Krishna, Mohammed etc. They are all just as unverifiable and all based on total blind faith. The only belief system in the world that has ever existed that has almost no possible way of being fabricated is the claim made by judaism. That's the point. Now tell me again what is not true.
@@nothingbutthetruth613 Sanai is no more believable than anything you mentioned
For some reason you can’t see that
Still a private revelation. What did anything in which you sent refute that?
Dear even if agreed for the national revelation thing, why cant the possibility of Isa and Muhammed bringing the message in an updated version hard to digest? Because humans as we look into history has always been changing, creating their own versions of God’s msgs...so why God chose Moosa was the same reason to chose Isa and Muhammed as well...because the generations went wrong in somewhere regarding their beliefs...So to correct them AGAIN jst like Moosa did...and thats exactly why we Had Isa and Muhammed...bt yet again...Isa’s generation repeated the same mistake and Muhammed had chosen by God...and its clearly mentioned that he was the last messenger of all and the holy quran has presented to us if we have any doubts in the Msgs of God...and putting aside the three religions and jst critically analyzing the three holy texts...i do have a strong reason to believe in Quran...its proven and supported by Science and many scientists...dat surely is a sign of God...
Beautifully explained 💖
So one mohammed can undo the revelation directly from G-d to 3 million witnesses? On what authority? And if this is true, why did he have to force his revelation on others by threat of death? This makes no sense to me.
@@cathysherman7876 Prophet Muhammad SAW did nothing out of his will, he was guided by the one and only God whom jews worship too. So the authority wasn't of Muhammad but of the creator! And he didn't undo anything, it is a simple fact that when the latest edition of anything comes the previous version automatically goes out of the usage. So simply when new laws were given by the God, the previous revelations be it Torah or Gospel need not to be followed.
Cathy Sherman U r highly mistaken...the prophet never ever forced Islam to any one...u can check the history...so please make sure u r right wen u openly blame sumthng on sum1...he didnt forced bcoz religion is a belief it can never be genuine if its forced on you...so vd Allah’s guidance he invited poeple to islam and never forced...
The Torah clearly says that it cannot be changed. Nothing more to talk about.
Christianity claims thousands saw Jesus post resurrection
Not sure why you skipped that??
That is not divine revelation. Performing miracles are different and certainly not considered proof of divine manifestation - see Deuteronomy chapter 13 which says "1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul."
@@JTVGlobalJewishChannel
Yes
It is
It is eye witness testimony
Wether it’s Divine or not is irrelevant
And to be clear. YOU are think it’s not driven
Jesus was divine if he flew up to heaven in front of hundreds of people
Same exact criteria you are claiming was sufficient for Jews
@@nomadicrecovery1586 they claim that 500 people saw him post revelation.
What they don’t claim is that these 500 people consistently testified into the next generations after them to this event occurring, rather the Torah and the Jewish national tradition is that the millions who witnessed the events of Sinai transmitted their complete agreement to the statements of the Torah regarding these matters in every generation, from millions of Jews to millions of Jews, until this very generation.
Because of this we are forced to rely on the claims of the apostles instead of the claims of 500 witnesses, which are still a smaller number of people regardless, as they make 0 claim that the 500 transmitted their testimonies into the generations after them like how the Torah claims that in every generation millions shall receive the testimony of the original 1mil+ witnesses to the events of the Torah.
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Even if they did have a way to verify that they transmitted their testimonies into the next generations, 500 people is not a sufficient comparison to quite literally millions. We find many examples of 500 people being deceived or participating in a conspiracy to actively deceive others into believing something that is false constantly throughout history. This has never happened with millions, and we never find a point in history of which millions of people actively participated in the same conspiracy to intentionally deceive others after them.
Secondly, that is not divine revelation. Divine revelation is when the infinite creator of the world, using his own divine voice, which is not that of a human being’s but rather that of a being which exists beyond time and space, to interact with a lower creation, typically a physical one such as a human being. That is what was heard at Sinai, something beyond space and time. The resurrection of a dead body was a physical event and has already been claimed in other religions, including Judaism.
Hence, we find a clear distinction between “miracles” and “revelation”. Miracles occur under the scope of the five senses and in the physical realm, and revelation is perceived beyond the scope of the five senses and exists beyond anything in the physical realm. Transcending the idea of shape, dimensions, words, categories, properties, attributes, color, sound, etc., and is something that cannot be imitated by others aside from the infinite creator himself, due to the level of its supernaturality, being more “supernatural” in essence than any other supernatural event which has occurred in the history of the physical world.
@@piscagherila9981 So a man inspired a 2000yr old religion with 2.5 billion followers?
@@piscagherila9981 Where does the ridiculous idea come from that god is independent of space and time?
So what about the witnesses of Christ’s resurrection?
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I believe it could be true, but it is irrelevant as miracles prove nothing as he mentioned in the video. I have a different approach to this and similar question in a video i am working on which i hope to put out today or tomorrow, i would appreciate your questions on my approach as i'm trying to steel-man the arguments the best i can, and the best way to do that is have other people questioning and critiquing.
These are claims. Where's the proof they saw it? Sure you can say "People would say 'Hey we didn't see that.' " But that's not proof that it happened. That's just some dude on the internet's claim that they WOULD say that in response to it being false. There's not even any logical argument here. This is just unbacked claims and speculation.
“The revolutionary war happened”- these are just claims, where’s the proof it actually happened
@@tropicanaman4666 You mean evidence like the battlefields with musket balls, cannon balls, weapons, and bodies? You mean evidence like the countless SEPARATE independent sources FROM AROUND THE WORLD that it happened? You mean evidence like the photographs of revolutionary veterans? Like that kind of evidence?
@Adam Brodman Exactly
eye witness History, just as you know as a matter of fact that George Washington was the 1st president... it was witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people
Nobody saw His face. Gentiles have the Bible, all of it and the 12 Tribes have had the OT and the exile to Neb's Babylon as the last big exchange with God. So far I see nothing that makes me feel left out, I actually have a book that is pretty clear about what will happen when God is involved and when He is not. When people are going into the grave and nobody is coming out then He is not involved. Any questions??
If the Torah is suggesting that “national revelation” will never be done again and that the only kind of being that can make such a claim would have foreknowledge of all of history, then it makes sense that Jesus would have to deliver the message differently, no? LOL
Also, Deuteronomy 18:20 predicts a prophet such as Jesus and that’s why you guys deny the resurrection. You put him to death and he rose again proving his words true and the fulfillment of at least 300 prophecies.
We all put Jesus to death. Let's be real now. You're about one thing, but our Lord's crucifixion was due to all of our sins. His resurrection was because of who he is.
Sorry but when Moschiah arrives the yoke of the heavenly kingship is supposed to be incontrivertibly established, beyond a scintilla of a doubt. Not he heard that she heard that she had a dream a century before that an angel visited her and jotted it down mixed in with some archaic pagan tropes to increase receptivity. The nations are supposed to unanimously recognize that the Creator has ushered in a new age and made his presence known, akin to a divine revelation if you will
Also if the prophecies fulfilled are so true why does the Church have to resort to deliberate mistranslation and eisegesis of the original hebrew text? Could it possibly be because they are trying to reconcile their perverse narrative with a naturally uncooperative text, in an attempt to derive legitimacy from what was undoubtedly recognized as true?
Jesus is not the messiah
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Jesus supposedly said I choose to die for you. He chose to die.
Bro what about 500 witheis who saw Jesus alive
There’s millions of witnesses who saw that Donald trump is alive, so what does that prove
Not something comparable, when we look at the actual texts that make this claim.
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Hey I have like 1000 followers on facebook! So I'm claiming to be twice the Son of God as Jesus was!
No seriously, saw Jesus during his lifetime? How is it even a claim?
And if you mean saw him resurrected, than I'll advise you to look again in YOUR scriptures:
Matthew says he was revealed after his resurrection only to Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (Matthew 28:1-10), and then to the eleven disciples (Matthew 28:16-20)
Mark and John say Mary Magdalene and the disciples (Mark 16:9-18, John 20:19-29)
But Luke never mentions any Mary, just the disciples including Peter (Luke 24:13-35, 34, 36-49).
So which one should I trust?
Only Paul claimed that there were 500 witnesses, and he did it to the galacians (if i remember correctly) who would have no way of verifying this, and had to rely on paul's word.
Where were the Israelites when the Jews were receiving the Torah at Mount Sinai? Somewhere else.
Joke? Just in case, the jews and israelites are the same people, the name jews was taken on later, as most of jews today are descended from judah, and also the fact that Judah means gratitude, which i gave a whole lecture or 2 on on my channel.
according to Christians: (it is not about Paul it is about Yeshua and) according to the Gospel our Father revealed himself also to the Jews again like the times of Mose.
The "Magic Tricks" of Yeshua can not be recreated like while the "Magic Tricks" (WONDERS) of Mose could only partially be recreated.
Neither are wonders alone of the Messia good enough reasons but that on what the Prophets said about the Messiah.
That's why he exalted the Torah on Zion during his preaching and was against the man made Taqqanot.
God of Abraham Itzaaak and Jakob bless you all continue your great work.
Jc penny is in genhinom
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Paul's inclusion at 0:52 as an example of a sole person receiving revelation as the basis for Christianity is either ignorant or deceptive. Had Paul never existed, there would still have been a following of Jesus. Peter, James, John, and Jude also testify of what Jesus did as first hand witnesses of his life. Additionally, Mathew, Mark, and Luke provide witness accounts of the life and teaching of Jesus. To say Paul is a single point of God's revelation for Christians is like saying Moses was the single source for Jews... in fact, what other witness account do you have to support the claim God reveled himself to 3M people besides the writings of Moses? Maybe Joshua? Anyone else? Certainly not 3M signed affidavits. Jesus existed. He was reveled to thousands of people during his time on earth. To everyone who witnessed a miracle during his life, and to everyone who saw him alive after the crucifixion. Not to mention that his apostles performed miracles also, a sign to anyone witnessing them that what they spoke of was true.
Looks like you were so upset about the reference to Paul that you missed the point of the entire video. Start watching here 3:45 so as to avoid the distraction of Paul These Jews do seem to waffle on a bit at times and distort the focus on the point they attempt to make.
It is a fact that quality control takes a huge nose dive with Christianity as far as the verification of the writings go. However, it is up to the reader to discern if Jesus is a valid continuance of the Tanakh or a fraud. As far as I'm concerned, this is the same as when you leave school and enter university - you are left a lot more to your own devices.
@@hosh1313 Thank you for the comment and recommendation. I took your advice and watched from the timestamp you recommended. I would not characterize my response as "upset," more bewildered by the implication the video was making.
@@marktester5799 Yes, the Jewish are very self righteous yet have no explanation as to why "their" God has failed to remove Christianity from "their" bible. :)
Hi Mark,
I hope you are well. Just a couple of thoughts about what you said:
-The gospels (which according to all accounts were written decades after the death of Jesus) do not say anywhere in them that they were actually written by Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. That is relying on a later tradition in the church and there is no reason for someone on the outside to accept them.
-You ask what other witness accounts we have to support the claim God reveled himself to 3M people besides the writings of Moses? We have the testimony of a nation. The account of what happened to the entire Jewish people was passed down through three methods: A written document- handed to the people who were there at the time and preserved throughout the generations, It was also passed down orally from generation to generation, as well as by the people taking on a lifestyle that reflected what they had been through. As a Christian, you believe this too.
-You mentioned that people seeing Jesus or the apostles performing miracles is a proof for the truth of their claims, but see Deuteronomy 13 where is says that G-d will also allow for false prophets to perform miracles, and also see (Exodus 7: 11-12,22) where we see G-d allowing Pharaohs magicians to perform miracles. So we see that performing miracles doesn’t prove anything. You as Christian would agree with me about this
Ignore the fact that some words are crossed out, I’m not sure why it did that;)
Bro I'm sorry to burst your bubble honestly but if you want the absolute truth moses went up in the mountains for 40 days and made Aaron watch over them but when moses came back with the revelation the people of isreal were worshipping a golden cow which makes a lowly sound, and moses got so outraged he threw the torah on the ground and approached his brother like "WHAT DID YOU DO I SAID TO WATCH OVER THEM" Aaron was like "brother do not blame me for they would have killed me If i tried to interfere" the people of isreal then saw moses and were like oh crap we are very sorry for what we have done and asked for forgiveness but yet they had crossed the ocean and that wasn't enough for them to keep faith in moses for 40 days while he was gone but continuing the story they were forgiven and taught the broken pieces of the torah speed up to moses and his death the people of isreal (majority) had left moses teachings and his belongings untill David brought it back and then was the time of Solomon where after solomon's death the temple was destroyed because the people at the time were not worthy of its existence without Solomon for they would abuse it and then when the army came to kick them out the "torah" was scattered all over the place so they had one dude gather missing pieces and try to reconstruct but they had misplaced and already altered much of what the original torah moses had- the original torah is long gone and the current torah is a mixture of lies due to the fact the original torah said to follow jesus and even to follow Muhammad but when they saw that jesus and Muhammad are not Jewish they denied them like they denied and killed many other prophets in the past - they abused the guidance of moses to hold on to this worldly life and thus are a people who should rather then sink deeper in the mistakes of their ancestors go on to accept the truth and follow Muhammad for he is the last of the prophets who brings good tidings and is a Warner to the people
00 00 a little correction, jesus was jewish
@Strava 89 seriously an illeterate man out of no where bringing nw religion . we dont need to see the god to believe in him fr the god belief has passed to.us through isa or jesus. fr more justification the q quran is the only holy book which do have human interference in it and moreover the scientific.facts in quran is 80% proven to be.correct by modern scientists and the rest 20% is not proven wrong too, tell me how can a man of such a poor backround bring up a new religion and holy book with such perfection without the aid of allah the only god
@Strava 89 rply to mg question man not make justification fr ur torah
@00 00 I loved how you summed up truth in few lines.
@Rosa Lina in fact you are right jesus was jewish but he was a shepherd and that is what made the rich jews at the time ignorant enough kill the poor servant of god jesus
Hey CHRISTIANS HAVE CLAIMED GOD HAS SPOKEN TO THEM THE SAME GOD AS THE GOD OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE, I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST YOU READ THE NEW TESTAMENT. SHALOM
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Oh sure but which one of them? Luke's or John's? Or should I start with Matthew's? I don't know there are too many contradictions between them so give me the only one you believe is valid.
It was all Israel, not just Jews
That is what is meant by “The Jewish people”
Jews = Israelites
We in Islam believed that god send a very clear revelation with all Jews in the Sinai mountain with the Torah and we all Muslims believe it's true.
God in the Quran said it's true, however the Jews never saw god not even Moses did. they asked to see god but they killed before that and revived. you can read the Quran for more details.
Yeah that's exactly what is told in the Torah "and the Lord said to him, Go down and warn the people so they do not force their way through to see the Lord and many of them perish." (Exodus 19:21)
It's not that G d chose the Jewish people, it's that the Jewish people chose G d.
Exactly!
Eze:37 is the resurrection passage, it is for all 12 Tribes. There seems to be two types of Jewish people in the NT.
Ac:28:20-24:
For this cause therefore have I called for you,
to see you,
and to speak with you:
because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
And they said unto him,
We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee,
neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee.
But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest:
for as concerning this sect,
we know that every where it is spoken against.
And when they had appointed him a day,
there came many to him into his lodging;
to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God,
persuading them concerning Jesus,
both out of the law of Moses,
and out of the prophets,
from morning till evening.
And some believed the things which were spoken,
and some believed not.
Deuteronomy 7:6, For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.
So yes, GOD chose the Jewish people!
@ Jedi
It's the other way around.
Although your point might have been that It is the Hebrews/Israel are the ones as a nation who wholly accepted It.
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An-Naml 27:9
يَٰمُوسَىٰٓ إِنَّهُۥٓ أَنَا ٱللَّهُ ٱلْعَزِيزُ ٱلْحَكِيمُ
English - Tafsir ibn kathir
O Musa! Verily, it is I, Allah, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.
Qurʾān
Allah told him that the One Who was addressing him was his Lord Allah, the All-Mighty, Who has subjugated and subdued all things, the One Who is Wise in all His words and deeds.
@Adam Brodman exactly all*h spoke to one person on mushrooms
@Adam Brodman One person that received the message...... often in public. If so many Jews heard Gods voice on Mt Sinai why were the others busy making a Golden Calf at the same time?
@@mdizzle7034 there were 3000 people who worshipped the calf. That is 3,000 out of the millions present at Sinai, and they were executed prior to the revelation of the divine voice.
@@mdizzle7034 secondly, he “received the message in public”, as in people heard Muhammad repeating this message. They didn’t hear God speak for himself according to Islam
@@piscagherila9981 The Jewish narration?
It’s also very pretentious that you deny the Messiah Jesus Christ and then pretend that Christians don’t fully believe in Deuteronomy and the Old Testament aka “Torah” as if your religion is the only one that “has a national revelation” and we just change it up when you’re the ones picking and choosing OT scripture.
cope
It seems to me that Matthew doesn't follow John, who doesn't follow Mark who doesn't follow Lucas... So why should I even bother following any of them anyway?
The god of David, Solomon, ,moses,Jesus and Muhammad peace be upon them are the same "ALLAH" .
@@colbybond9253 if u follow the Jesus way you will 100% go to heaven (in islam) we believe
Every prophet bring the same message that there is only one God,
No mohamd never prophet we even don't accept him as human being he did alot of bad things he was selfish he had sex slaves and married his adopted son wife and convert people by force and make them pay tax your Quran also teach beating killing apostates and more things
wagas khan, there is only ONE LIVING SUPERNATURAL GOD, AND THAT IS NOT allah, JESUS IS THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. JESUS NOT allah
@@pippinbaker8440 it is already proven that humans have made changed to the bibile but the quran.is.same as it was 1400 yrs before