you missed something critical. If cannon events don't exist, What happened after breaking pav's cannon event? What was the big black pit that was swallowing everything up if cannon events aren't real. You didn't mention that it's probably actually Spot, when you really should have.
Dude. Spider woman has venom blasts. Like, all three varients except the Gwens. The Tech Avatar girl has venom blasts. Hobie probably does to. It's not a common power amongst spider people but wagering he seen it or has it.
most spider people are geniuses or at least learn to be good with the tech they use and hobie brown isn't an exception, even when he's not a spider-man. in the main 616 continuity he's the prowler, helped peter develop tech and impersonated spider-man when peter wasn't around, and even hacked tony stark's tech. we also don't know how long hobie has been in the spider society, and given how much he doesn't seem to like being with them, i'm not super surprised if he took the time to figure out how the transdimensional teleportation watch worked (especially if he knew how it could track your location)
@@yungflashbeats Probably just upset that Avengers: Kang Dynasty was postponed and may be cancelled. I don't think Sony has the rights to that character, so best to forget it.
I'm going to say: Hobie doesn't time travel, but his backstory gives him the knowledge and experience on how to break oppressive systems. He knows he'll need his own watches keep the power "in the people's hands" rather than just Miguel's - (and to keep big brother from surveilling everyone through the watches, like, how creepy is that? You think Hobie wouldn't hate that?) And he clearly knows how to smash barriers, he made quick work of Spot's, because he knows that the prison system in the society is their main control method other than the watches. He's studied how to break them, he saw that Miles was able to affect the barrier and offered his expertiese in how to smash it next time - giving power to the people (knowledge this time not tech) - and Miles listens, learns, and revolts; so Hobie smirks in pride. Nothing sinsister here, just a punk revolutionary on a mission to undermine all Miguel's control systems, and lay the foundation for a revolution. And it works! Gwen steps up. Movie 3 is going to be awesome!
I agree with him being against oppressive systems and saw things were headed where he needed to fight the power of Miguel. I saw a good video about him, which mentioned the book _Defeating Dictators: Fighting Tyranny in Africa and Around the World_ by George Ayittey. That book has some good ideas, that may seem obvious like having an independent media (including radio).
Exactly. Being the anomaly prevents his cannon events from being what’s happened. And the Spider-Man from 610 was Peter Parker. His uncle Ben died, Captain Stacy and Gwen Stacy likely already dead. All of that universe’s cannon events already happened.
No I just assume that a cannon event can only be prevented by the spider-man from that universe and cannot be interfered by an outside Spider-Man. This is somewhat supported since Miguel goes to another universe to get his family back and assumably interfered with a cannon event from that universe
@Guilded_Boy no canon events are supposed to happen to all Spidermen. If Miles is an anamoly as Miguel states, then by definition canon events shouldn't apply to him.
My theory is that Miguel is doing his best with the information he's got. Going back to the comics, while he's always been a grump (hard not to be when you come from corpocratic dystopia, especially standing next to the other Spider People) he's also always been a hero, doing his best to fight the good fight in the same way any other Spider Man does. He's not going to intentionally make other people's lives worse or hurt other knowingly. It's not who he is.
This right here is facts and you can tell in the opening fight scene with him, gwen, and jessica. Miguel promptly gets in the flow and tries his best to help save everyone and then they all succeed working as a group. It seems he’s struggling internally to keep himself under control, and then Miles intentionally diving into Mumbattan sets him through the roof. He knows what he’s doing is right because he wants to “keep things under control”.
@@AchieveProgressRecords He's working on piss poor information layered in about 15 rings of emotional trauma and an aura of white hot denial. HE thinks he's doing the right thing. He's wrong, but it's what he thinks.
I'd rather believe he's the hero suffering from trauma and guilt. Strange that he doesn't have a sense of humor, but seeing an apocalypse is pretty traumatic and too soon to joke about. I'd rather not believe he's acting authoritarian for other motivations like being a conqueror. They're saying the canon event can't be universe-breaking. But maybe being in another universe for five years (or whatever) was enough to do it, but two years without Spider-Man in Earth-42 wasn't enough. We don't know if there were signs of glitching that Miguel ignored, or whether Spider-Man isn't allowed to take a vacation for several years without something bad happening.
If Miles IS in fact an anomaly, and he isn't supposed to be Spiderman, the rules of the Canon events shouldn't apply to him. If he didn't qualify for the SPIDER SOCIETY because he was an anomaly, then he shouldn't have to have a canon event. You might be thinking "Maybe he can't be part of the society because he didn't have a canon event yet." Remember that Pavitr got accepted 6 MONTHS before his canon event which didn't even happen in the end. If Miles Isn't an anomaly and has to have a canon event happen to him, He shouldn't have to let his father die. Uncle Aaron's death should qualify as a canon event. Saying that this doesn't count would be false. During Miguel's presentation, it was portrayed as a canon event. Plus, According to Miguel, A canon event is something that helps all members of the society improve and become a better Spiderman. This is exactly what happens during the first movie. Miles becomes a better Spiderman when he goes to avenge Uncle Aaron and stop Kingpin. Either way, NOBODY SHOULD BE stopping Miles from trying to save his father.
Someone close to Spiderman dying is a canon event (Uncle Aaron, Peter Parker from Earth-65, Uncle Ben, etc.) The police captain dying is a separate canon event, and must happen in addition to the other one. Like how even after Peter died, Gwen still has to have her father die.
@@me-myself-i787Gwen’s father isn’t captain anymore, which in my mind destroys the whole “ canon event theory “ cause her leaving made him quit being captain, and yet her universe didn’t collapse like pavitr’s universe
@@me-myself-i787 Canon events as we're explained to though only apply to Spider-Man there hasn't been anything to suggest that Canon events applies to those who aren't Spider-Man and the Spider-Man story in these films
2:44 Even when Miguel identified him as Miles Morales, Spider-mans were confused when they saw Spider-man with four arms. And Miguel asked him to look back, and Miles was hiding behind his back. Eventually, Spider-Mans realised that Miles was the one to catch because he started running away.
I wonder why Miles didn't just turn invisible. Sure Miguel and a few other Spider people had thermal lenses, etc. And the Spidey Sense. But I think being invisible would have helped him escape a bit easier
@@ThristianSilas No it's not the Inheritor's the Vampire joking is a red herring. He's just an Evil Variant of Spider-Man 2099 that's A. Prowler 2099 or B. Mentally Unstable after killing an entire universe. Doing everything he's doing because he lost that variant daughter and maybe is seeking to resurrect her through time manipulation.
@@lts_lit yah in optics sure, but he says he doesn't believe in consistency but is consistently sliding under everyones noses and pretending to be just some dude that nobody takes seriously. out of sight, out of mind. i think there is a superficial side to hobie. they WANT you to believe he doesn't believe in consistency. they WANT you to believe he is justa jokester who doesn't take himself serously. all these things that set up to drop the cleanest 180 about your perspective on who he is a PERSON and not just who he is as spider punk. thats just my take at least.
I'm of the opinion that Miles is an anomaly, but that this is a good thing because anomalies and canon events do not work the way Miguel thinks it does. I don't think Hobie has seen the future. He just knows authoritarianism when he sees it. He actually tried to keep Miles from going to Nueva York, so in not sure how had a plan in advance since Miles ignored the warning. Hobie is also incredibly emotionally intelligent. He knows Gwen. He quickly figures out Miles. He knows Miguel will try to prevent Miles from going back home. It's not hard for him to figure out what will happen next once Miles runs. He knows that in the end Gwen will most likely defend Miles and when she does, Miguel will send her home. He didn't know for sure. That's why he left the note, "In case things didn't work out."
spot on, i dont think going too deep into these movies would do much everything was pretty laid out infont of us, we just gotta wait for the 3rd movie now, and i like the Miguel doesnt know canons and anomalies the way he thinks because of what happened to him, what he did is way different than what miles did but he for sure thinks he's right
@@time2play961 What has led you to believe that? I mean it's possible, but we've been given no indication that it is. Is there stuff in the comics about there always being a Spider-Man on a given Earth throughout history?
@@dgmilloway yeah you are right there is not hint for it at all. It just came because of how every universe has one spider man (excluding artificial spider men like miles from the video game), which comes from one special spider, so I thought since technically miles took a different universe's spider and is in his own universe, he took both his universe's spider man and the other universe's spider, eliminating 2 spider men in exchange for one (him), and so I thought that if miles were to be gone, it would reset that effect and there would be 2 new spider men to fill the spots for those 2 universes
Okay, really big thing to point out, Insomniac Spider-man is wearing his Spider-man 2 PS5 suit, the game where he is teamed up with Miles Morales in it. Also, did anyone realize, when Hobie is stealing things from Miguel's lab, he's building the watch for Gwen, right then. This was all his plan from the beginning.
I don’t remember where else I saw someone say this but like whoever said it, I believe that the Miguel really does believe the canon events are real because of these traumatic events have happened to to him and he doesn’t want to believe that he just got unlucky and that everything is random so he created this narrative about canon events as a coping mechanism because to him, there must be a reason these horrible things have happened and many other spider people feel the same way so they believe it too. I feel like Miguel truely believes he’s doing good and preventing people the pain he experienced when that universe collapsed when in reality, he’s causing more pain.
Miguel can be understood, he wants to help everyone and do the best, but he does not understand that he only makes things worse for everyone for people like Gwen, Miles and many other spider people
I just had a thought.. I just watched the film so can't remember all details, but the universe miguel jumped to (from 2099) that he said was destroyed, was it ever numbered?? what if it was the universe from what if with dr strange or the one from dark strange in MoM? could be a cool twist how miguel thought his presence destroyed things but it was actually the other events or something
If think he believes it too. Then it will be interesting to see what really caused the universe he moved into to glitch out of existence. I see four fights coming up: Miles-42, Sinister Six, Miguel's loyalists and The Spot. Maybe there will be a new character that gets introduced that they have to defeat to save the Spider-verse?
I just figured out on my own , idk if you mentioned this before but if Miles is an anomaly from being bit by the alternate earth Alchemax spider and he wasn’t supposed to become spider-man and Peter Parker and Uncle Aaron weren’t supposed to die, why would Aaron Davis be dying in Miles’ arms directly from ITSV be shown when Miguel is explaining canon events?
The problem with that is... we know Miles was going to get bitten anyways- there was another spider in the area that was also being followed for a bit before the E42 Spider showed up. So this Miles was ALWAYS going to be Spider-man. Peter was always going to die, along with Aaron. It's just that the Spider itself was wrong.
@@matthewwilliams8267wait, for real? I thought it was only the earth 42 spider 😳 that is definitely really interesting, I’ll have to rewatch itsv soon to catch that :D
I think Miguel is actually a Prowler variant not a spiderman variant. He doesn't have a Spider sense, he has claws like Prowler, his webs are far more techy than any of the other spiderman variants we see (even the Indian one has a web between his), his music when he's chasing Miles is a Prowler theme, and he is way more into tech than spider powers. Even Miles says "you have claws? Dude, are you sure you're even as spiderman? My theory is that he is a Prowler that jumped universes and took out the Spiderman version of himself in the other universe to have his family. This is what caused the collapse of the universe. I'd further add, that the reason why he's chasing Miles is because he knows that there is also a Prowler variant of Miles (IMO he's a good guy per all the sinister six Easter eggs in universe 42) that could potentially take him down.
That actually sounds plausible! And it would also explain the design difference from Spiderman 2099 from the end credits scene of the first movie to this movies Spiderman 2099.
This makes sense to because Miles actually questions in the movie, are you sure you're Spider-Man? And them questioning if they are the good guys when Gwen is exiled from the Spider Force.
I just came back from the cinema watching this movie again and I noticed that right before he sends gwen back to her dimension she questions if he even knows what will actually happen if miles saves his dad and he pauses, then he turns around and ominously asks if she wants to find out.. From that scene I think it's pretty clear that he doesn't actually know for sure which strengthens your theory, thought that was interesting
Great analysis! I completely agree with you that Miles is not an anomaly. If he was, why isn't his earth crumbling? Also in the scene when Gwen Stacy goes back to Earth 1610 and talks to Miles' parents, she not only wears Miles' jacket as a comfort ship, but also to cover up that fact that she is Spider-Gwen.
Someone in a comment above stated that in the movie there was another spider in 1610 but the earth 42 spider got to miles before the original spider did, so I have a feeling the original spider MIGHT make an appearance in btsv but who knows
I'm guessing we're going to find out Miguel was wrong, probably after a fight between the Band and Miguel and his loyalists. But what could have happened? Maybe it takes four or five years of him being in another universe without returning?
If I remember correctly we were told that there's a CHANCE to stop it. Maybe Miguel swooped in and found a way to stop it from crumbling to save the multiverse or something
I think the movie is heavily foreshadowing that Miguel is lying. Multiple people point out that he's different from the others. Peter B says "how come you're not funny? Spider-people are supposed to be funny" and then later Miles says "are you sure you're even a spider-man?" Shortly after this, Miguel straight up says that *Miles* is not supposed to be spider-man and that Miles is an anomaly. I think this is foreshadowing that Miguel is creating unnecessary anomalies in the multiverse by trying to enforce this rigid structure on the spider-man story. When Miles asks how they know what is supposed to happen, Lyla says "what's what the model says." Who made this "model" and how do they know it's accurate? The first movie ended with Miles saying "anyone can wear the mask." The second movie splits the spider-people into two factions. One faction says "anyone can wear the mask as long as they follow the canon" and the other faction disagrees with that. The third film will probably need to explain why Miguel is wrong and why Miles and co are right.
Cops in helicopter at beginning also question wether miguel is good guy, “ you don’t look like a good guy”. To wit he responds, “ you just gotta shut up and trust me.”
One thing that bothered me about Miguel was how he was going to "contain" the spot even though Miles told him that Spot was going to cause a cannon event. So if he contained Spot before he killed Jeff, doesn't that mean he prevents the cannon event (the same thing that Miles did to Inspector Singh)? I'd like to believe that it was a slight oversight on the writers' part but it can be used to show that Miguel does not even believe in his own story about cannon events. Also Miles' strategy of "going home" is honestly kind of sad since the other spiderpeople can just go to his dimension and capture him again. This makes me assume that in the 3rd movie, either Miguel is proven wrong and that Miles is not an anomaly, or that Miles loses contact with every other dimension.
The speculation makes sense Hobie the the character who hates authority. And if he saw some kind of future that end horribly due to authority, I wouldn't put it past him to come up with a plan to stop it.
One thing I like about ATSV is during Miles' walk to Miguel's main area, you can see Hobie sneaking in any kind of tech materials to make his own Spider Society watch, which he later gives to Gwen near the end.
One thing I need to point out. When Miguel specifies which Spider-Man to stop, he also states which gate Miles is coming from, so that could potentially be a big reason why they know which specific Miles to go after. Not saying you're wrong at all about that, I just wanted to bring up another possibility.
Another time where the universe doesn't break is in No way home, 3 different spidermen meet and work together without bracelets but that doesn't make the universe any worse, in fact they help restore it
To fair, that was done by Doctor Strange's magic, plus the two other spideys were only there for a few days at most. The real evidence is the fact that all 3 spideys change the fates of the villains from the respective universes and nothing has happened, to where Miguel is fully aware of "Doctor Strange and the little nerd".
I've heard people say that because magic was involved instead of science that the universe didn't entirely break; at the very least it was easier to restore in comparison.
When you tear up the universe you have to fix it....Holland did tear it up but needed the help of strange magic to do it.... Miguel has done his own...but can't....miles becoming a spider man fix it
Then again when Miles ended up on Earth-42 his alternate self did lose his farther, and even tho that Miles from Earth-42 was supposed to be Spider man and he didn't, the secondary main canon events happened like the Captain dying and someone close to him/ his dad, and that Miles becoming the Prowler, so basicity Miles from Earth-1610 and Miles from Earth-42 swapped canon events and stories if that makes sense
Athithan’s Theory: Miguel is lying. His motive for why he’s lying? When he replaced himself everything was fine, however a different miles morales entered his universe fought with Spot. Left. But Spot’s spot was left behind and destroyed Miguel’s universe! Therefore Miguel wants to eradicate all Miles Morales from ever existing, because Spot was the creation of Miles existing, then when events play out to where Spot gets his revenge and destroys the universe to get back at Miles. Miguel figured the only way to save everyone and potentially undo the the timeline of his universe getting destroyed, is to kill Miles!
There's no evidence that the interdimentional watch Hobie made for Gwen is the only one he has made. In fact, given that we see no evidence of his continued presence in Gwen's universe after he delivers a watch to Captain Stacy, it is likely that he has a second (at least) watch that he has kept for himself. Without his own watch, travelling to Gwen's universe would put Hobie at risk of glitching out before his presence was detected, and he could be returned to his own reality. Given what we know of Hobie's character, and how we see Miguel and the Spider Society tracking members through their watches, it seems likely that Hobie would be unwilling to rely on the watch provided by the Spider Society. He is there to keep tabs on what they are doing, but would not want them tracking him in return, or controlling his access to interdimensional travel. Therefore, I suspect that if he did not already have his own interdimensional watch before he was recruited to the Spider Society, he put one together quickly after he joined so that he would have more freedom of movement to investigate what Miguel is doing. At the Spider Society, we see Miguel keeping tabs on other universes through windows on his computer. I think it is reasonable to speculate that Hobie, clever fellow that he is, (making his own interdimensional watches, etc.) would be able to put together something similar, which would allow him to see that Gwen would need a watch. He has probably also seen other iterations of Miles as Spider Man, since he would know that Miguel sees our Miles as a huge anomaly, and would realise that Miguel has developed a prejudice against all instances of Miles Morales as Spider Man because of it (which explains why there are none in the Society.) He has probably been watching our Miles, as well as various other Spider Miles' to form his own conclusions, rather than blindly trusting in Miguel's narrative. He could easily have observed another, more experiened, Spider Miles using his powers, and passed along the tip to help our Miles. Anyway, this is getting long, so, I'm out- 😁
@@heis2smooth Nope not Evil. He's morally good just a Punk and Anarchist...Though yes he's a variant of someone and it's the exact reason he's on Miles side 100%. Because they're one and the same each of them a different breed of Spider. Miles is a reflection of everyone...Peter, Miguel, Gwen and Hobie just in different ways. His dark reflection Miles Prowler is a combo as well. Uncle Aaron was the Evil Variant of the Prowler.
I could be wrong or not but we’ll see in Btsv but the scene that hobie explains to miles to make his own watch, a part of me felt like why would you want a watch just to be in a spider society, but then I realized ( using your theory ) what if hobie is using what miles desires ( healthy manipulation) to get him to realize he’s not an anomaly, what if hobie wanted miles to build his own watch so that he’s not prevented from going to other universes where there is a spider miles, let’s also not forget that although hobie helped miles to escape to save his father, a part of me feels like he knew that miles would be transported to another universe and didn’t say anything for the sake of miles seeing another version of him.
@@elfenlied_girl1238 Which is darker to Miles Spidey a Pure Hero. SV Miles n Spider-Gwen could be argued to be Anti-Heroes but very loosely. Also a Vigilante can be a Hero or Anti-Hero or Anti-Villain...Every last Spider-Person in existence minus Spider-Cop is a Vigilante. All one needs to do to be a Vigilante is break the law by enforcing your own sense of "justice".
I believe there are no other Miles(es?) in the Spider Society because it would be a conflict of interest. Miles' reputation as an "anomaly" was already known to the group and just having his friends there was evidently a risk. So imagine if there were even more of him there.
i think it was solely Miguel's decision to keep any miles out, the other spiders didnt know who miles was, when he ran out and Miguel said he on sector 4 there was a spider there and they didnt know if it was him, there was a question in the back round asking if it was him
I'm leaning toward Miguel not only lying to the Spider Society but also not having all the information. He only ever saw one universe get destroyed by a "canon even" not happening but we're never told that there have been patterns of this happening in other universe. Pretty sure Gwen even asked what would happen if Miles really broke the canon and Miguel never gave a real answer. Also, Miguel is so smart and would want canon event to happen "like they're suppose to" then why even detain Miles at Spider Society HQ. Keeping Miles there could actually disrupt the canon event itself because there were probably things that were suppose to happen to make the canon even happen that Miles needs to do in order for it to happen. If anything, Miguel should have erased Miles's memories, if he had a device to do so, to make sure that the canon event happens and Miles never had the information in the first place. Heck, not telling Miles his dad was in danger could have (probably) could have made the canon event happen in the first place.
Exactly, that’s what I don’t get why Miguel is going on about canon events when miles needs to be there, “ you lose one person to save all “ but how could miles save the people that he needs to on the canon day if he’s trapped, if anything it’s be “ you lose all people to save none “ cause before the canon event happens he saves people
If it's a canon event, then doesn't the character have to witness the police captain sacrificing himself? Agree on most of what was said in original post in this thread, except I don't think Miguel is deliberately lying. Maybe his A.I. told him so, and that's what's lying?
Miguel IMO is keeping secrets from everyone especially those who serve under him he knows if those secrets get out everyone will turn on him. I mean he's determined to force Miles to bend to his will last thing Miguel wants is another Hobie but there's something different & special about Miles that Miguel sees as a threat. He probably fears Miles could usurp him I also think Miguel doesn't have the whole story he just he learned what he knew & twisted it.
@@DromusTHMiguel also broke a cannon event by taking over his other self's life & Peter B was there for it. Miguel's other self was probably on his way of becoming Spider-Man or his daughter would've became a new spider person when she was older. But Miguel 2099 disrupted that so he really shouldn't be pointing all the blame on Miles he's hiding something shady from everyone.
Omg you managed to articulate what I was thinking, with Miguel being potentially wrong (I do think he may be wrong on his hypothesis/own experiences, because he may be an antagonist but he doesn't strike me as an actual villain). What bothers me in that regard is how in many universes, Alchemax has a collider. This is so extremely suspicious, considering what happened with just the one from Earth 1610. This is why I do think Miguel may be wrong on the cause AND the target of his hypothesis. At the same time, when Miguel talks about the death of the captain, Hobie is the ONLY ONE who doesn't seem emotionally moved - it is not canon compliant, and yet Hobie and his universe seem totally fine. Hobie is also the only one who has similar powers to Miles, and in the comics Hobie started as The Prowler - which Miles 42 has become to fight against the Sinister Six. Hobie has a very different perspective on everything, and I can't wait to see more of him in the next movie. He's got to understand something Miguel may have missed. WHAT DO YOU KNOW, HOBIE.
@TheWizardMus this is what I was thinking as well, he doesn't show much regret during a scene where everybody else is clearly shaken. This canon event likely happened very differently for him, which throws a wrench in the theory.
The Special Session theory also ties into Hobies idea of not believing in consistency as it kind of ties into these “canon events” not being consistent and him realizing.
I don't know why know has pointed out yet. In What If, we see that Dr. Strange attempted to save Christine. But, no matter what he did, he failed to do so. This was termed as an Absolute Event. Maybe this is what a canon event is supposed to be. Finally, when Strange did actually save Christine, we see how his world completely collapses and everything just disappears. Canon events do exist, they are just a far deeper concept than we realise.
One thing I want to point out is that when Miguel says he went to another dimension to replace his dead self so that he sees his daughter again how did he manage to travel to another dimension which he knows he’s dead in?
My guess would be he was recruiting spideys like he was in the post credits then he hopped to that universe to recruit himself probably not realizing he’s also him , then he witnesses him die or hears about it ? Idk his timeline gets real confusing with the post credit’s because how was he recruiting spideys & taking other muguels place at the same time
@@CtznCold8365 I think he found himself when he went to Peter Bs universe or some iteration of it. When the simulation showing the universe falling apart is playing you can see another spider man in the background and it’s Peter B Parker..can’t explain it..can’t wait for the next movie either.
Miles may be an anomaly but he’s definitely not a mistake. If the Web of Life and Destiny is the source of the Spider-Sense like it is in the comics we need to look at instances of it more closely. The Spot ran a test on the collider which brought the spider that bit Miles from another dimension but it wasn’t the only spider. That test also brought Gwen to 1610. In Into the Spider-verse she says that her spider sense guided her to visions academy, where she met Miles before he was even bitten. In Pav’s dimension we see Miles’ spider sense when Singh is in danger. But he’s the only one. When Gwen senses that Miles is in the wrong universe it seems as the the Web of Life and Destiny has been playing a part in all of this likely to be revealed in the next movie.
Sooooo along with that, miguel is a spiderman from the future. And in his post credit scene in ITS, he uses the word “timeless” when talking about the abilities of the watch. On top of that, peter b is an older version of peter parker. Theyre intentionally giving us older and younger characters to explain time travel without saying time travel.
Into the Spider-Verse has both Miles and Blonde Peter see the entire Web of Life and Destiny. There is a reason Blonde Peter fundamentally believes in this kid he just met and a reason Miles just can't agree with this whole canon events theory. Because they saw the entire Multiverse...They subconsciously know that there's Endless Possibilities where every outcome every choice creates new realities. Blonde Peter became part of the Cosmic Web right before he died...It allowed him to send a message and portal to 616B Peter and maybe the others like Gwen, Peni, Ham and Noir to help Miles save the entire Multiverse. Meanwhile Miles subconsciously knows for a fact that Miguel is inherently wrong. That there's thousands of realities that break the Spider-Man canon that never perish. Spider-People with Spidey Sense are directly connected to the Mystical side of existence. It's literally a Divine Blessing allowing for limited Precognition. Miguel doesn't have it...He isn't blessed or chosen he was simply created through genetic manipulation. He's never connected to the Mystical side of existence...He'll never witness the Endless Possibilities of reality. He's limited to the places he physically visits...Which he'll never be able to visit them all he will forever remain ignorant of the vast majority of existence.
Speculation corner. Hobie's art style frequently changes in a way that looks very similar to glitching, I get that his universe is meant to look like a collage, but I feel like the similarities between that art style and the way glitching tends to look is not an accident. Hobie's actions could be motivated by partial knowledge of the future, it could also stem from him simply having a strong impulse to break the mold, it could also be the combination thereof, upon discovering the idea of canon events, it seems 100% in his established character to want to shatter that status quo, as the only consistent part of his core philosophy seems to be an overwhelming drive to make free choices, so the slightest hint that the idea of a predetermined timeline was false could've very easily been enough to make him want to fight the timeline by every means he knows how to. This doesn't disprove the possibility of him time traveling, but it doesn't necessitate it either, him making his own multiverse watch could indicate he time traveled, but it could also simply be due to the fact that most spider people tend to be somewhat hyper intelligent, and considering the first watch was presumably made by a Spider-Man of one universe or another (theoretically Miguel, but that is not necessarily confirmed) it isn't a stretch to think that another Spider-Man could also come up with the idea on their own (especially if they have proper inspiration to do so) That said, definitely like these theories, just came across this channel with the previous video in this series, looking forward to the next one coming out.
6:13 which brings up my last point on my other comment, Peter B Parker literally replaced Peter Parker from Miles’s universe in ITSV and NOTHING happened. Either this canon event theory Miguel got going on is a misunderstanding or Miguel is simply lying, there is no other way around it.
I just think that the dimensions switched up. In 42 miles dad was to die and inspire him to be Spider-man in the movie miles, his uncle was supposed to die and inspire him to become prowler. With him becoming Spider-Man the deaths still happened but the context and inspiration changes because the 42 spider bit him its mixing up the universes in the machine and showing what was meant to happen in 42 how it originally would have.
Also in earth 42 his mother didn’t know who Spider-Man was, in all universes there’s a Peter Parker Spider-Man and then a Miles morales who becomes Spider-Man so that means our miles is meant to be Spider-Man and the earth 42 one is just a variant of the first and only Spider-Man being miles
It doesn’t make sense. If Miles is an anomaly then cannon events cannot occur in his life. If he is not supposed to exist as Spider Man then there is no need for his father (the Captain) to die.
3:33. I don´t remember if this scene was remove or not, but in the trailer when Gwen and Miles arrives in the Spider Society (Gwen says. "Welcome to Spider Society"), we can see Peter Parker and Miles from Earth-1048 (Marvel´s Spider-Man serie) walking around. So there must a couple of Miles´s.
something to keep in mind is that Miguel O'Hara is not a spider-person he was never bitten by a "radioactive" animal. he has to inject himself with that green liquid we saw to keep his powers he doesn't have spider-sense (which is the most important part of being a spider-person because every time someone new gets introduced we see them "connecting" with others through their spider-senses) and he can't crawl like others. he also says he is different from others. so if he isn't a Spider-Man his canon events shouldn't be the same as others so the differences in his story can be excused (referring to the previous video) but why did he choose to be a part and the leader of spider people? also in his flashbacks, we see other spider people trying to help his universe but if that was the moment he learned about canon events and how worlds get destroyed why was there a spider society? what did they do before Miguel's universe fell apart?
He is a spiderman , your forgetting that 50% of his DNA is spider. and he has to rely on his instincts , so he still counts as a spiderman just different. and he can crawl , but he can't stick to walls. he has to use his razor sharp nails or claws to crawl on things that move fast and more grip.
@@MiroSynthBit In the comics we have animal totems. meaning that spider people across the multiverse were chosen by some sort of god/gods(google spider totems) animals totems are connected to the Web of Life and Destiny. and in the movies when spider people meet their spider senses trigger because that's what connects them together. Miguel doesn't have that meaning he is not a spider totem meaning he is not one of them
@@MahdiXD Oh ok , doesn't stop a fact he is a spiderman just a different one. he still counts as spiderman. And to be honest he's more animal than any other spiderman. this guy got claws , fangs , enhanced vision so he can see in the dark.
@@MiroSynthBit yeah but what i am saying is that the canon events in his life stories aren't like other spider totems is because he is not an official spider man. because spider totems are connected by magic a a god chose them. i am talking about pt 1 of this video where he asks why those canon events he showed didn't happen to himself. also why does he choose to be a spiderman ?
miguel is just a mad man that feels that everybody has to go thru the same pain as him. that's it that all. cannon events are just events that lead them all down the same path and not one of their own
Yeah even Miguel's in universe explanation doesn't make sense for him trying to stop miles from saving his dad. If Miguel thinks miles is an anomaly then saving his dad should not break cannon cause he's an anomaly. Actually miles dad dyeing would break cannon because a Spiderman's guardian is suppose to die.
I agree that canon events are not a thing. The only thing we can connect between the universe-destroying disturbances is Alchemax and their (likely) use of colider tech. I only say this because where the Alchemax building, and the colider, landed in Mumbattan is where the universe-eating black hole originated from. Now, Miguel says there have been other universes that have been seemingly destroyed in this manner, but we don't know anything about them - so I am just working with what we have been shown/told.
Miles wasn't supposed to get bitten, that was unexpected and not supposed to happen; the cannon event was that Miles G Morales was going to get bitten, but miles 1610 did instead which is the interrupted/broken cannon event
2:40 no they didn’t know. When he said to go after miles there was another Spider-Man coming out of sector 4 aka where Miguel told them where miles is. Idk if you heard someone say,” is that him” look again at the clip. You will hear it!
My theory: Miguel O'hara is actually Morlun. Explaining the countless "jokes" about him being a vampire or him not being spiderman. And with him having access to a whole society of spider-people? Morlun would LOVE that. He could also pass as Miguel pretty easily, the red eyes, the claws, the fangs... This theory probably isn't true but still. Theres alot of flaws in it, like him injecting himself with the thing that the REAL Miguel uses, and him attempting to bite the vulture (supposedly with the paralyzing Venom) or maybe he was trying to literally MURDER him? Attempting to steal his life from him which is something that Morlun WOULD do. If people seeing your Identity doesn't matter if you're not in you're respective universe why would it matter? It would be initially shocking to see a Spider-Man esque person bite someone but eventually it would be probably be taken less threatening after they found out it simply paralyzed them. But stealing their life force? That wouldn't look to good...
No, Miles IS an anomaly, this issue isn’t that there can’t be a Miles Spider-Man, the issue is that Miles was not supposed to be the Spider-Man in his universe specifically, we don’t know everything about Canon Events, we don’t know what happens when these things occur. But Miles is 100% an anomaly
Random fact: in Animation vs Minecraft shorts episode 30, Gold dies by a glitch while playing Minecraft causing King Orange to try to destroy Minecraft. In Across the Spider-Verse, Miguel’s daughter (and everyone else in that universe) also dies by glitch
I have a small theory based on some of the best information presented. Is it possible that the dimensional collapses are a result of The Spot’s power, and not breaches of “canon” events? When we see Pav’s dimension collapsing, it appears to be collapsing into a black hole. The discrepancy of time between the universes could easily explain how a supercharged Spot would be able to cause dimensional collapse incongruent with when he acquires his upgrade.
Good follow-up, keep up the great work! 👍 Random question/theory topic recommendation: Have you ever considered doing a theory video on something like Sonic or Mario? I think The Super Mario Bros. Movie would be an interesting thing for you think about... idk, just a thought. Don't wanna push you or anything.
With your theory that there is time travel, In the first movie miles is late to class and when called out he says "Einstein says time is relative, right? Maybe i'm not late, maybe you're early". It would be interesting if that was a plot device right from the beginning of the first movie, and the issues with him being an anomaly relate to people reacting to Miles because they are seeing him/his actions in the wrong frame of time.
I loved both movies. It's refreshing to see them back-to-back to keep all the information fresh and ready when you need it. I think Miguel was only trying to explain things from what he experienced without having full knowledge of what made all the people disappear in his version of his canon event story. So he put the blame on Miles because even though Earth-42 Miles was supposed to be bit by the spider intended for that Miles. The Spider still bit a Miles on another earth, which still counts and still sticks to the theory of Miles becoming Spider-Man just from a different earth, and not the Miles from the intended Earth-42 who actually is The Prowler because of Earth-42's Aaron Davis.
When you started mentioning Hobie knowing the future, I was really hoping you were gonna mention my theory, which is that Hobie is future Miles. It would explain a few discrepancies like knowing to give Gwen a watch. Miles picked up that Gwen was in serious trouble before they entered Pav's universe, and Miles is smart enough to know that Gwen would have some serious consequences because of it. Another thing is why Hobie knows that Miles should use his palms. As you mentioned before, there isn't a Miles in the Spider-army, so why exactly would he know how to effectively use Miles' venom powers? We see Hobie take down the wall with a matter of playing strings on his guitar, so is it possible that the guitar amplifies the venom? It is an electric guitar, and the venom is bioelectricity, so it's not too far off. Hobie is the most interesting character solely because of this knowledge. It also seems like every Miles has the venom power, so it could be possible that a version of Peter slipped up and mentioned their version of Miles and his powers, but the question still remains of how Hobie would know that Miles should specifically use his palms. If this were true, this would create a loop in time where Hobie has to tell Miles to use his palms. Even down to the hair, they're similar. Disobeying and defying Miguel, knowing canon events are nonsense, their shared affection for Gwen, they feel like mirrors of each other, but one's older. I really need someone else to tell me their thoughts on this so I can strengthen this theory
Hobie did not know a few things though... Like that Gwen did not tell Miles everything and that he was a bit disappointed that Miles went happily into the spider society central... If he was that Miles from future, he would be not surprised and would know these...
@MirecU Well, if Hobie is from the future, he has to act like he isn't, like in a classic time travel story. Hobie still has to act like he doesn't know everything, even if he does, so he has to act stupid. Hobie is just such an underexplained character. The whole movie essentially rests on him having the knowledge that Miles should use his palms because it's how he escapes
@@bloop75 But for this information he would not need to inquire to keep his act. On the other hand there is this concept of when Hobie is acting he is so random and colorful but when he gets to act as true Hobie, he is colored in shades of grey and is drawn more consistently. And when he became disappointed in Miles he went grey for a moment... As to why he knew about the palms? I would say it was a guess? He is a spiderman after all and they are quite intelligent and he managed to reverse engineer the watches as well. It is a fascinating idea that Hobie is Miles from future and that was the first idea that came to my mind when he put down his mask, but considering other facts from the movie I do not thing he is Miles from the future. But we will see...
Easy. He’s an anarchist. He’s used to breaking down barriers he’s not intended to get past. To break down any barrier, you want to have as much force behind each point of contact as you can muster. If you use your finger tips, you are dividing the amount of force between each point of contact, which greatly weakens what you’re trying to do. By using your palms, you are decreasing the points of contact to two, with the full weight of your strength behind it. What’s stronger, two battering rams of electricity and force, or ten tasers?
I believe that the only reason that the timeline calapsed was because Miguel tried to insert himself into a universe that was not his own. That has nothing to do with the thinking that Miles would do the same in his own timeline. It was the spider from another universe ( which should not have been there) that bit him. Thanks to his uncle Arron taking him to the spot where the collider was being used, which was how things got injected into incorrect timelines. And that was before Miles met the Peter Parker spiderman.
It seems like there's some overlap between Miguel and He Who Remains. Both of them think or claim they're protecting the multiverse from something, but do so in a way that curtails free will. Miguel's model is much looser given the diverse variety of spider people, but is strict on certain things. I don't think Miguel is a true villain, however. I think it's possible the third movie will introduce the Inheritors and show them as having tricked him somehow. While that's a bit late in the series, we do know that other future Sony Spiderman related movies may tie in to the Spiderverse, so them being introduced doesn't mean it's where they're the primary villain, or they could even go on to appear in MCU projects for all we know if Sony doesnt' want to go in depth with them.
Miles was bitten by a spider from Earth-42 which is why the send home machine sent him to that dimension and not Earth-1610. The Miles in 42 was supposed to become Spider-Man, he lost his dad which was also his Captain. But since he never got bit, he became the Prowler. Our Miles was never supposed to be the Spider-Man of Earth-1610. Peter Parker with the blonde hair was and he would've destroyed the collider and beat Kingpin and Green Goblin if he wasn't distracted with Miles.
what if miles absorb The Spot Ability? if miles absorb The Spot Ability, miles will not glitching in every other Universe and can go to every other universe without using WATCH GIZMO because miles can absorb power and some Question " what are the differents between GIZMO and GOOBER? " in movie into the spider verse peter call override key "GOOBER" Spiderman noir call COLLIDER "Gizmo" Miquel first Time Get Watch Call it "GOOBER" Lyla Replied it is "GIZMO" GIZMO cause problem GOOBER the Cure
When watching this movie given the information that was displayed I assumed that “breaking the canon” was Sony’s way of saying “incursions” because of the way it sounded like and looked like. Plus I used Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness’ scene with Reed Richards explaining incursions to Dr Strange as a basis. Two universes collide and the winner survives but loser is destroyed… Miguel entered a new universe and triggered an incursion by staying too long. Reed said something like “the greater the footprint the greater the risk” makes sense since Miguel spent time in that world with a daughter he particularly didn’t have but ya know alt universes.
I personally believe that Miguel's canon events arent real and are just a theory he strung together using similar enough events from the variant of *one* person (Peter Parker) to justify his actions. He's also using canon events as a tool to control spider-people he personally recruited, probably inadvertently causing deaths that could be prevented. he convinced these people that their suffering has meaning using something that doesn't really hold up when closely examined. i don't think his intentions are malicious but out of ignorance and guilt he's going to cause a lot of death and that's what's really going to drive home that he's wrong. also Miguel has some balls to mention the web of life and destiny to justify his actions when he can't even access it. it's why he doesn't have a Spidey sense. he's basically a mutant but not in the xgene sense. EDIT: I also think he deliberately recruited spider-folk he thinks he could influence and use. hobbie is an outlier to this but i think that was an infiltration to disrupt the spider society and to stop miguel. also it's deliberate that we don't see any other miles morales spider-men even though we as the audience knows they exist. if say ps4!miles was there alongside his ps4!peter it would make it harder to justify miguel's vendetta against 1610b/itvs!miles because it would point out that miguel's theory that only 1 spider-man at a time could exist on top of miles being spider-man not being an anomaly. there's also comics!miles(1610/616) who's a child of two universes and shares the title with no issue with 616!peter. tldr: miguel is full of it and is basically pulling a batman at his worst: a controlling, manipulative messed up man who thinks he has to be in control of everything in order to save people but will f up badly harming them instead. he singled out miles on purpose because his existence pokes holes in his canon event excuse and will cause the spider-society to question him and themselves. he doesnt truly know what caused his stolen life to be erased and is just looking for something convenient while blaming himself.
Hobie's 'anarchistic' view could even give him an almost deadpool type effect of foresight. Not explicit like a script but a feeling or momentum I typed this before you actually mentioned it in the later half but it's fascinating how we came to a similar point, there was always something off with Hobie not just the visual style but how he seems unphased by things
Do you know that spider man(Andrew Garfield) was the first person to break the Canon In the no way home movie Andrew Garfield saved MJ when she was falling to his death, but Andrew Garfield(spider man) wasn't able to save his Gwen, This means one of spider man's girlfriend is suppose to die just like how a police officer close to spider man is suppose to die by saving a small kid or spider man Uncle Ben, Uncle Aaron or Aunt May is suppose to die. That means all these things started with spider man (Andrew Garfield) breaking the canon
Miguel is for real obsessed. Miles is the anomaly because he's the only one he hasn't gotten to bend to his will, his willing of his delusion into reality (listen to Spider-Man India: 'I can do both!') He's got most of the multiverse, including Miles's bestie(s). He's like Thanos in that way, whether you're cool with it or not, "he's inevitable." Funny how spot is the one that'll erase that possibility.
They all do...If they have Spidey Sense that IS the tether the link. It's a Mystical Connection to the Divines and All Realities that gives the Spiders limited Precognition. Miguel and Depowered Spiders are the exception. Gwen's is extremely powerful to detect Miles being harmed in another dimension. The most powerful Spidey Sense ever seen. Which indicates that she's an incredibly powerful Spider, that Love and Empathy empower the ability, that Miles and Her are Cosmically linked to one another literally Two Halves or Soulmates or each of them are direct Champions of the Deities. Even the Cosmos/Gods are shipping Miles x Gwen lol. Also given what Spidey Sense is...Given Miles has it he's not a mistake or at least his nature as an Anomaly doesn't fundamentally matter to the Cosmos/Gods. Otherwise they would've depowered him.
@@flamesofchaos13 I think is more than that because Charlotte Morales-Stacy have a same ability....now it might be a stretch...but I think that Miles and Gwen are suppose to be together to raise Charlotte. It's possible that Hobie might of seen that future
@@Shinigami88X1 Earth 8 is a possible future in the comics which as of right now has nothing to do with the films. I would love it if we do see Earth 8 as an alternate reality tho that further proves canon events don't exist or as the conclusion to the story it's creation being the ending. I would love to see Gwen and Miles and Miles 42 react to this potential future...Maybe it's even left ambiguous which Miles she's married too (though obviously will be 1610B). Peter B and Noir and Ham would really be having a laugh about it trolling the young lovebirds. Also don't forget about their son and that Peni and Ham or at least Variants of them and a Kraven Daughter/Granddaughter Spider-Girl (that has a lot of interesting story potential) are also part of the roster of Heroes. Gotta say if Earth 8 or Earth 8B is the ending...It's pretty logical and makes way more sense for these films than it does in the comics. By the way they're specifically making a Spider-Woman spin-off more than likely a sequel starring Gwen and Jess and introducing Silk. If Earth 8 is the setting and has a storyline involving Kraven...That could be about the origins of that unnamed Spider-Girl. Who I assume is an adoptive daughter...Which it makes sense to me if any Spiders were to adopt a villain's kid/grandkid it would be the Stacy-Morales line given Miles is the nephew of the Prowler who is apparently meant to be the Prowler if things were different. This would be a family that understands moral ambiguity and second chances more than most who would show unconditional love to them. Man if this is Rio and Jeff legacy they have every right to be proud. Spider-Prowler-Kraven Grandkids...Would hate to babysit them tho. Talk about menaces!
Hobie being able to travel through time (or even space), or just having some kind of knowledge makes a LOT of sense when you realize he's more based on Spider-UK (the literal leader of the Spider Army in the comics) than the actual Spider-Punk, who HAD the ability to travel through dimensions and was the only one capable of fighting Incursions, the comic version of the "anomalies"/super collisions.
Miles isn’t an anomaly nor is he breaking cannon on his Earth. His Spider-Man died in front of him. His future changed when he got bitten by the Earth 42 spider, he was going to be a Prowler. Now that he’s on Earth 42 we’ll see what happened to their Peter and if he was bitten by a different spider or maybe he became Venom.
We see multiple Miles variants in the Spider Society headquarters. The only spider variant we haven’t seen is Gwen. (Which will supposedly be explored in the next movie). I think that Miguel’s multiverse tech is narrow compared to the whole spider verse or even the Web of Life and Destiny. He’s based his whole motive on limited information with the help from an algorithm. I’m sure we will see so many more variants and styles in the next movie.
@@marianomartinez3008 In the citadel, PS4 Spider-Man (not PS5, they are different) is seen walking with a Miles variant. And I think there are others in the background that have Miles' colors/designs. But maybe they are meant to be Easter eggs instead of variants of his because Miguel specifically calls our Miles for the chase.
I think Lyla is the puppet master ngl. When the spider society circles Miles in that one scene Miles says something along the lines of "We're supposed to trust an algorithm?"
In the next video, we’re going to start looking at FNaF’s new Ruin DLC, so make sure you stay notified for when that’s uploaded!
I will
I Will too
Wait, what happened to the Epilogue of the DHMIS Theories. (Don't want to be annoying or anything but you chose 1 of my comments for it)
you missed something critical. If cannon events don't exist, What happened after breaking pav's cannon event? What was the big black pit that was swallowing everything up if cannon events aren't real. You didn't mention that it's probably actually Spot, when you really should have.
Dude. Spider woman has venom blasts. Like, all three varients except the Gwens. The Tech Avatar girl has venom blasts. Hobie probably does to. It's not a common power amongst spider people but wagering he seen it or has it.
The fact that hobie knows how to reverse engineer future tech from the year 2099 is crazy to me now that i think about it. And so fast too
I'd say he's a king but that would be an insult since he doesn't believe in the monarchy
most spider people are geniuses or at least learn to be good with the tech they use and hobie brown isn't an exception, even when he's not a spider-man. in the main 616 continuity he's the prowler, helped peter develop tech and impersonated spider-man when peter wasn't around, and even hacked tony stark's tech. we also don't know how long hobie has been in the spider society, and given how much he doesn't seem to like being with them, i'm not super surprised if he took the time to figure out how the transdimensional teleportation watch worked (especially if he knew how it could track your location)
What if Hobie is just a variant of Kang the Conqueror?
@@heis2smooth that would be random af, how you get to that question?
@@yungflashbeats Probably just upset that Avengers: Kang Dynasty was postponed and may be cancelled. I don't think Sony has the rights to that character, so best to forget it.
I'm going to say: Hobie doesn't time travel, but his backstory gives him the knowledge and experience on how to break oppressive systems. He knows he'll need his own watches keep the power "in the people's hands" rather than just Miguel's - (and to keep big brother from surveilling everyone through the watches, like, how creepy is that? You think Hobie wouldn't hate that?)
And he clearly knows how to smash barriers, he made quick work of Spot's, because he knows that the prison system in the society is their main control method other than the watches. He's studied how to break them, he saw that Miles was able to affect the barrier and offered his expertiese in how to smash it next time - giving power to the people (knowledge this time not tech) - and Miles listens, learns, and revolts; so Hobie smirks in pride.
Nothing sinsister here, just a punk revolutionary on a mission to undermine all Miguel's control systems, and lay the foundation for a revolution. And it works! Gwen steps up. Movie 3 is going to be awesome!
What if Hobie is just a variant of Kang the Conqueror?
I agree with him being against oppressive systems and saw things were headed where he needed to fight the power of Miguel. I saw a good video about him, which mentioned the book _Defeating Dictators: Fighting Tyranny in Africa and Around the World_ by George Ayittey. That book has some good ideas, that may seem obvious like having an independent media (including radio).
Exactly. If he paid attention to him he'd know this.
It works perfectly cause Gwen gets a big group of spider people who are all on miles side
He is by définition time travelling as a can change dimensions but I see your point
I doubt there's only one Miles in the Spiderverse, I think Miguel just didn't want any in the headquarters cuz there was a Miles that was an anomaly
There’s a Spider Man Miles who has kids with a Spider Woman Gwen
@@justsomehipsterwithaniphon705 yeah
is there another Miguel O'Hara?
@@iamzedv1914Yeah there is
Racism
If Miles is an anomaly then canon events shouldn't apply to him.
Exactly. Being the anomaly prevents his cannon events from being what’s happened. And the Spider-Man from 610 was Peter Parker. His uncle Ben died, Captain Stacy and Gwen Stacy likely already dead. All of that universe’s cannon events already happened.
True 1000 iq That is Big break🤯🤯🤯
No I just assume that a cannon event can only be prevented by the spider-man from that universe and cannot be interfered by an outside Spider-Man.
This is somewhat supported since Miguel goes to another universe to get his family back and assumably interfered with a cannon event from that universe
He's just doing his own thing.
@Guilded_Boy no canon events are supposed to happen to all Spidermen. If Miles is an anamoly as Miguel states, then by definition canon events shouldn't apply to him.
My theory is that Miguel is doing his best with the information he's got. Going back to the comics, while he's always been a grump (hard not to be when you come from corpocratic dystopia, especially standing next to the other Spider People) he's also always been a hero, doing his best to fight the good fight in the same way any other Spider Man does. He's not going to intentionally make other people's lives worse or hurt other knowingly. It's not who he is.
This right here is facts and you can tell in the opening fight scene with him, gwen, and jessica. Miguel promptly gets in the flow and tries his best to help save everyone and then they all succeed working as a group. It seems he’s struggling internally to keep himself under control, and then Miles intentionally diving into Mumbattan sets him through the roof. He knows what he’s doing is right because he wants to “keep things under control”.
@@AchieveProgressRecords He's working on piss poor information layered in about 15 rings of emotional trauma and an aura of white hot denial. HE thinks he's doing the right thing. He's wrong, but it's what he thinks.
Well. "Doing the correct" he's literally BROKEN Miles' MIND in the train. Yep the super correct thing....
I'd rather believe he's the hero suffering from trauma and guilt. Strange that he doesn't have a sense of humor, but seeing an apocalypse is pretty traumatic and too soon to joke about. I'd rather not believe he's acting authoritarian for other motivations like being a conqueror. They're saying the canon event can't be universe-breaking. But maybe being in another universe for five years (or whatever) was enough to do it, but two years without Spider-Man in Earth-42 wasn't enough. We don't know if there were signs of glitching that Miguel ignored, or whether Spider-Man isn't allowed to take a vacation for several years without something bad happening.
If Miles IS in fact an anomaly, and he isn't supposed to be Spiderman, the rules of the Canon events shouldn't apply to him. If he didn't qualify for the SPIDER SOCIETY because he was an anomaly, then he shouldn't have to have a canon event. You might be thinking "Maybe he can't be part of the society because he didn't have a canon event yet." Remember that Pavitr got accepted 6 MONTHS before his canon event which didn't even happen in the end.
If Miles Isn't an anomaly and has to have a canon event happen to him, He shouldn't have to let his father die. Uncle Aaron's death should qualify as a canon event. Saying that this doesn't count would be false. During Miguel's presentation, it was portrayed as a canon event. Plus, According to Miguel, A canon event is something that helps all members of the society improve and become a better Spiderman. This is exactly what happens during the first movie. Miles becomes a better Spiderman when he goes to avenge Uncle Aaron and stop Kingpin.
Either way, NOBODY SHOULD BE stopping Miles from trying to save his father.
Someone close to Spiderman dying is a canon event (Uncle Aaron, Peter Parker from Earth-65, Uncle Ben, etc.)
The police captain dying is a separate canon event, and must happen in addition to the other one. Like how even after Peter died, Gwen still has to have her father die.
@@me-myself-i787Gwen’s father isn’t captain anymore, which in my mind destroys the whole “ canon event theory “ cause her leaving made him quit being captain, and yet her universe didn’t collapse like pavitr’s universe
@@me-myself-i787then why is earth 42 miles' dad dead then and there's no Spider-Man nor did it collapse
@@elishawilson5342 Because different universes have different canon events.
At least, that's the only explanation I can think of.
@@me-myself-i787 Canon events as we're explained to though only apply to Spider-Man there hasn't been anything to suggest that Canon events applies to those who aren't Spider-Man and the Spider-Man story in these films
2:44 Even when Miguel identified him as Miles Morales, Spider-mans were confused when they saw Spider-man with four arms. And Miguel asked him to look back, and Miles was hiding behind his back. Eventually, Spider-Mans realised that Miles was the one to catch because he started running away.
Thats what I thought too
There’s Gotta be a reason why Miguel is being a real major jack ass not just to miles but to Gwen as well
It’s either a Miguel is not Miguel that he is the inheritor and that Miguel probably trap somewhere or he might be dead or alive
I wonder why Miles didn't just turn invisible. Sure Miguel and a few other Spider people had thermal lenses, etc. And the Spidey Sense. But I think being invisible would have helped him escape a bit easier
@@ThristianSilas No it's not the Inheritor's the Vampire joking is a red herring. He's just an Evil Variant of Spider-Man 2099 that's A. Prowler 2099 or B. Mentally Unstable after killing an entire universe. Doing everything he's doing because he lost that variant daughter and maybe is seeking to resurrect her through time manipulation.
Woah I hope Hobie will have a role in the next movie like you describe, they just have to be quite careful with a character knowing stuff in advance
I'm your 100th like 🗿
Na then that would make him consistent. And you know him. Maby he might be in it just to be consistent so that nobody can predict him
Hobie is an anarchist. It doesn't take much time-traveling to predict the outcome of a fascist regime.
@@glitchyfox8706 Hobie said "I don't believe in consistency"
@@lts_lit yah in optics sure, but he says he doesn't believe in consistency but is consistently sliding under everyones noses and pretending to be just some dude that nobody takes seriously. out of sight, out of mind. i think there is a superficial side to hobie. they WANT you to believe he doesn't believe in consistency. they WANT you to believe he is justa jokester who doesn't take himself serously. all these things that set up to drop the cleanest 180 about your perspective on who he is a PERSON and not just who he is as spider punk. thats just my take at least.
I'm of the opinion that Miles is an anomaly, but that this is a good thing because anomalies and canon events do not work the way Miguel thinks it does.
I don't think Hobie has seen the future. He just knows authoritarianism when he sees it. He actually tried to keep Miles from going to Nueva York, so in not sure how had a plan in advance since Miles ignored the warning.
Hobie is also incredibly emotionally intelligent. He knows Gwen. He quickly figures out Miles. He knows Miguel will try to prevent Miles from going back home. It's not hard for him to figure out what will happen next once Miles runs.
He knows that in the end Gwen will most likely defend Miles and when she does, Miguel will send her home. He didn't know for sure. That's why he left the note, "In case things didn't work out."
Completely agree
spot on, i dont think going too deep into these movies would do much everything was pretty laid out infont of us, we just gotta wait for the 3rd movie now, and i like the Miguel doesnt know canons and anomalies the way he thinks because of what happened to him, what he did is way different than what miles did but he for sure thinks he's right
i do think if miles just dies, a new spider will be born for the 2 dimension to find its next spider man
@@time2play961 What has led you to believe that?
I mean it's possible, but we've been given no indication that it is.
Is there stuff in the comics about there always being a Spider-Man on a given Earth throughout history?
@@dgmilloway yeah you are right there is not hint for it at all. It just came because of how every universe has one spider man (excluding artificial spider men like miles from the video game), which comes from one special spider, so I thought since technically miles took a different universe's spider and is in his own universe, he took both his universe's spider man and the other universe's spider, eliminating 2 spider men in exchange for one (him), and so I thought that if miles were to be gone, it would reset that effect and there would be 2 new spider men to fill the spots for those 2 universes
Okay, really big thing to point out, Insomniac Spider-man is wearing his Spider-man 2 PS5 suit, the game where he is teamed up with Miles Morales in it.
Also, did anyone realize, when Hobie is stealing things from Miguel's lab, he's building the watch for Gwen, right then. This was all his plan from the beginning.
I don’t remember where else I saw someone say this but like whoever said it, I believe that the Miguel really does believe the canon events are real because of these traumatic events have happened to to him and he doesn’t want to believe that he just got unlucky and that everything is random so he created this narrative about canon events as a coping mechanism because to him, there must be a reason these horrible things have happened and many other spider people feel the same way so they believe it too. I feel like Miguel truely believes he’s doing good and preventing people the pain he experienced when that universe collapsed when in reality, he’s causing more pain.
Miguel can be understood, he wants to help everyone and do the best, but he does not understand that he only makes things worse for everyone for people like Gwen, Miles and many other spider people
I just had a thought.. I just watched the film so can't remember all details, but the universe miguel jumped to (from 2099) that he said was destroyed, was it ever numbered?? what if it was the universe from what if with dr strange or the one from dark strange in MoM? could be a cool twist how miguel thought his presence destroyed things but it was actually the other events or something
@@edensfolly8955That earth was TRN (it hasn't a number)
If think he believes it too. Then it will be interesting to see what really caused the universe he moved into to glitch out of existence. I see four fights coming up: Miles-42, Sinister Six, Miguel's loyalists and The Spot. Maybe there will be a new character that gets introduced that they have to defeat to save the Spider-verse?
I just figured out on my own , idk if you mentioned this before but if Miles is an anomaly from being bit by the alternate earth Alchemax spider and he wasn’t supposed to become spider-man and Peter Parker and Uncle Aaron weren’t supposed to die, why would Aaron Davis be dying in Miles’ arms directly from ITSV be shown when Miguel is explaining canon events?
The problem with that is... we know Miles was going to get bitten anyways- there was another spider in the area that was also being followed for a bit before the E42 Spider showed up. So this Miles was ALWAYS going to be Spider-man. Peter was always going to die, along with Aaron. It's just that the Spider itself was wrong.
@@matthewwilliams8267wait, for real? I thought it was only the earth 42 spider 😳 that is definitely really interesting, I’ll have to rewatch itsv soon to catch that :D
@@matthewwilliams8267where is the other one
I think Miguel is actually a Prowler variant not a spiderman variant. He doesn't have a Spider sense, he has claws like Prowler, his webs are far more techy than any of the other spiderman variants we see (even the Indian one has a web between his), his music when he's chasing Miles is a Prowler theme, and he is way more into tech than spider powers. Even Miles says "you have claws? Dude, are you sure you're even as spiderman?
My theory is that he is a Prowler that jumped universes and took out the Spiderman version of himself in the other universe to have his family. This is what caused the collapse of the universe. I'd further add, that the reason why he's chasing Miles is because he knows that there is also a Prowler variant of Miles (IMO he's a good guy per all the sinister six Easter eggs in universe 42) that could potentially take him down.
Bro, I LOVE this theory. Until otherwise contradicted, this is my new headcanon.
Good one!
If this theory about Miguel is right, then he's basically copying Scarlet Witch.
That actually sounds plausible! And it would also explain the design difference from Spiderman 2099 from the end credits scene of the first movie to this movies Spiderman 2099.
This makes sense to because Miles actually questions in the movie, are you sure you're Spider-Man? And them questioning if they are the good guys when Gwen is exiled from the Spider Force.
I just came back from the cinema watching this movie again and I noticed that right before he sends gwen back to her dimension she questions if he even knows what will actually happen if miles saves his dad and he pauses, then he turns around and ominously asks if she wants to find out.. From that scene I think it's pretty clear that he doesn't actually know for sure which strengthens your theory, thought that was interesting
Miguel doesn't really know how the multiverse works.
Great analysis! I completely agree with you that Miles is not an anomaly. If he was, why isn't his earth crumbling? Also in the scene when Gwen Stacy goes back to Earth 1610 and talks to Miles' parents, she not only wears Miles' jacket as a comfort ship, but also to cover up that fact that she is Spider-Gwen.
If miles were an anomaly like how miguel says, because of the 42 spider, both universes would be broken.
For that his universe isn't crumbling. But hes doesn't anyone fault for this
Someone in a comment above stated that in the movie there was another spider in 1610 but the earth 42 spider got to miles before the original spider did, so I have a feeling the original spider MIGHT make an appearance in btsv but who knows
I'm guessing we're going to find out Miguel was wrong, probably after a fight between the Band and Miguel and his loyalists. But what could have happened? Maybe it takes four or five years of him being in another universe without returning?
If I remember correctly we were told that there's a CHANCE to stop it. Maybe Miguel swooped in and found a way to stop it from crumbling to save the multiverse or something
I think the movie is heavily foreshadowing that Miguel is lying. Multiple people point out that he's different from the others. Peter B says "how come you're not funny? Spider-people are supposed to be funny" and then later Miles says "are you sure you're even a spider-man?" Shortly after this, Miguel straight up says that *Miles* is not supposed to be spider-man and that Miles is an anomaly. I think this is foreshadowing that Miguel is creating unnecessary anomalies in the multiverse by trying to enforce this rigid structure on the spider-man story. When Miles asks how they know what is supposed to happen, Lyla says "what's what the model says." Who made this "model" and how do they know it's accurate?
The first movie ended with Miles saying "anyone can wear the mask." The second movie splits the spider-people into two factions. One faction says "anyone can wear the mask as long as they follow the canon" and the other faction disagrees with that. The third film will probably need to explain why Miguel is wrong and why Miles and co are right.
Cops in helicopter at beginning also question wether miguel is good guy, “ you don’t look like a good guy”. To wit he responds, “ you just gotta shut up and trust me.”
One thing that bothered me about Miguel was how he was going to "contain" the spot even though Miles told him that Spot was going to cause a cannon event. So if he contained Spot before he killed Jeff, doesn't that mean he prevents the cannon event (the same thing that Miles did to Inspector Singh)? I'd like to believe that it was a slight oversight on the writers' part but it can be used to show that Miguel does not even believe in his own story about cannon events.
Also Miles' strategy of "going home" is honestly kind of sad since the other spiderpeople can just go to his dimension and capture him again. This makes me assume that in the 3rd movie, either Miguel is proven wrong and that Miles is not an anomaly, or that Miles loses contact with every other dimension.
He could contain Spot after the canon event though... they were going mainly for Miles to his dimension...
Maybe going home meant that all he needed to do was tell his dad not to become captain. So even if captured, it wouldn't happen to his dad.
The speculation makes sense
Hobie the the character who hates authority. And if he saw some kind of future that end horribly due to authority, I wouldn't put it past him to come up with a plan to stop it.
One thing I like about ATSV is during Miles' walk to Miguel's main area, you can see Hobie sneaking in any kind of tech materials to make his own Spider Society watch, which he later gives to Gwen near the end.
Bro i just typed this 😢
@@N3KR0SiS_YTyo that is sad.
Bro why u copy?
One thing I need to point out. When Miguel specifies which Spider-Man to stop, he also states which gate Miles is coming from, so that could potentially be a big reason why they know which specific Miles to go after. Not saying you're wrong at all about that, I just wanted to bring up another possibility.
Another time where the universe doesn't break is in No way home, 3 different spidermen meet and work together without bracelets but that doesn't make the universe any worse, in fact they help restore it
To fair, that was done by Doctor Strange's magic, plus the two other spideys were only there for a few days at most. The real evidence is the fact that all 3 spideys change the fates of the villains from the respective universes and nothing has happened, to where Miguel is fully aware of "Doctor Strange and the little nerd".
I've heard people say that because magic was involved instead of science that the universe didn't entirely break; at the very least it was easier to restore in comparison.
@@tronarclight2976 That's a nice insight!
When you tear up the universe you have to fix it....Holland did tear it up but needed the help of strange magic to do it.... Miguel has done his own...but can't....miles becoming a spider man fix it
Then again when Miles ended up on Earth-42 his alternate self did lose his farther, and even tho that Miles from Earth-42 was supposed to be Spider man and he didn't, the secondary main canon events happened like the Captain dying and someone close to him/ his dad, and that Miles becoming the Prowler, so basicity Miles from Earth-1610 and Miles from Earth-42 swapped canon events and stories if that makes sense
Athithan’s Theory: Miguel is lying. His motive for why he’s lying? When he replaced himself everything was fine, however a different miles morales entered his universe fought with Spot. Left. But Spot’s spot was left behind and destroyed Miguel’s universe! Therefore Miguel wants to eradicate all Miles Morales from ever existing, because Spot was the creation of Miles existing, then when events play out to where Spot gets his revenge and destroys the universe to get back at Miles. Miguel figured the only way to save everyone and potentially undo the the timeline of his universe getting destroyed, is to kill Miles!
There's no evidence that the interdimentional watch Hobie made for Gwen is the only one he has made. In fact, given that we see no evidence of his continued presence in Gwen's universe after he delivers a watch to Captain Stacy, it is likely that he has a second (at least) watch that he has kept for himself. Without his own watch, travelling to Gwen's universe would put Hobie at risk of glitching out before his presence was detected, and he could be returned to his own reality.
Given what we know of Hobie's character, and how we see Miguel and the Spider Society tracking members through their watches, it seems likely that Hobie would be unwilling to rely on the watch provided by the Spider Society. He is there to keep tabs on what they are doing, but would not want them tracking him in return, or controlling his access to interdimensional travel. Therefore, I suspect that if he did not already have his own interdimensional watch before he was recruited to the Spider Society, he put one together quickly after he joined so that he would have more freedom of movement to investigate what Miguel is doing.
At the Spider Society, we see Miguel keeping tabs on other universes through windows on his computer. I think it is reasonable to speculate that Hobie, clever fellow that he is, (making his own interdimensional watches, etc.) would be able to put together something similar, which would allow him to see that Gwen would need a watch. He has probably also seen other iterations of Miles as Spider Man, since he would know that Miguel sees our Miles as a huge anomaly, and would realise that Miguel has developed a prejudice against all instances of Miles Morales as Spider Man because of it (which explains why there are none in the Society.) He has probably been watching our Miles, as well as various other Spider Miles' to form his own conclusions, rather than blindly trusting in Miguel's narrative. He could easily have observed another, more experiened, Spider Miles using his powers, and passed along the tip to help our Miles.
Anyway, this is getting long, so, I'm out- 😁
What if Hobie is just a variant of Kang the Conqueror?
@@heis2smooth Nope not Evil. He's morally good just a Punk and Anarchist...Though yes he's a variant of someone and it's the exact reason he's on Miles side 100%. Because they're one and the same each of them a different breed of Spider. Miles is a reflection of everyone...Peter, Miguel, Gwen and Hobie just in different ways. His dark reflection Miles Prowler is a combo as well. Uncle Aaron was the Evil Variant of the Prowler.
I could be wrong or not but we’ll see in Btsv but the scene that hobie explains to miles to make his own watch, a part of me felt like why would you want a watch just to be in a spider society, but then I realized ( using your theory ) what if hobie is using what miles desires ( healthy manipulation) to get him to realize he’s not an anomaly, what if hobie wanted miles to build his own watch so that he’s not prevented from going to other universes where there is a spider miles, let’s also not forget that although hobie helped miles to escape to save his father, a part of me feels like he knew that miles would be transported to another universe and didn’t say anything for the sake of miles seeing another version of him.
@@flamesofchaos13prowler miles is anti-hero/ vigilante
@@elfenlied_girl1238 Which is darker to Miles Spidey a Pure Hero. SV Miles n Spider-Gwen could be argued to be Anti-Heroes but very loosely. Also a Vigilante can be a Hero or Anti-Hero or Anti-Villain...Every last Spider-Person in existence minus Spider-Cop is a Vigilante. All one needs to do to be a Vigilante is break the law by enforcing your own sense of "justice".
I believe there are no other Miles(es?) in the Spider Society because it would be a conflict of interest. Miles' reputation as an "anomaly" was already known to the group and just having his friends there was evidently a risk. So imagine if there were even more of him there.
i think it was solely Miguel's decision to keep any miles out, the other spiders didnt know who miles was, when he ran out and Miguel said he on sector 4 there was a spider there and they didnt know if it was him, there was a question in the back round asking if it was him
Ps4 peter has a miles
@@captaineri.223 I meant they aren't allowed in Spider-Society
According to Peter B. Parker, Miles was the reason that Peter had a kid, so according to Miguel's logic, is Mayday an anomaly?
Ooo yhh
I think MiGUEL was the one who shot his alternate self and that’s why the world unraveled because he wasn’t supposed to be there.
I'm leaning toward Miguel not only lying to the Spider Society but also not having all the information. He only ever saw one universe get destroyed by a "canon even" not happening but we're never told that there have been patterns of this happening in other universe. Pretty sure Gwen even asked what would happen if Miles really broke the canon and Miguel never gave a real answer. Also, Miguel is so smart and would want canon event to happen "like they're suppose to" then why even detain Miles at Spider Society HQ. Keeping Miles there could actually disrupt the canon event itself because there were probably things that were suppose to happen to make the canon even happen that Miles needs to do in order for it to happen. If anything, Miguel should have erased Miles's memories, if he had a device to do so, to make sure that the canon event happens and Miles never had the information in the first place. Heck, not telling Miles his dad was in danger could have (probably) could have made the canon event happen in the first place.
Exactly, that’s what I don’t get why Miguel is going on about canon events when miles needs to be there, “ you lose one person to save all “ but how could miles save the people that he needs to on the canon day if he’s trapped, if anything it’s be “ you lose all people to save none “ cause before the canon event happens he saves people
If it's a canon event, then doesn't the character have to witness the police captain sacrificing himself?
Agree on most of what was said in original post in this thread, except I don't think Miguel is deliberately lying. Maybe his A.I. told him so, and that's what's lying?
Miguel IMO is keeping secrets from everyone especially those who serve under him he knows if those secrets get out everyone will turn on him. I mean he's determined to force Miles to bend to his will last thing Miguel wants is another Hobie but there's something different & special about Miles that Miguel sees as a threat. He probably fears Miles could usurp him I also think Miguel doesn't have the whole story he just he learned what he knew & twisted it.
Miles did break a canon event or did we just completely forget about the Indian spiderman world. 😒
@@DromusTHMiguel also broke a cannon event by taking over his other self's life & Peter B was there for it. Miguel's other self was probably on his way of becoming Spider-Man or his daughter would've became a new spider person when she was older. But Miguel 2099 disrupted that so he really shouldn't be pointing all the blame on Miles he's hiding something shady from everyone.
Omg you managed to articulate what I was thinking, with Miguel being potentially wrong (I do think he may be wrong on his hypothesis/own experiences, because he may be an antagonist but he doesn't strike me as an actual villain). What bothers me in that regard is how in many universes, Alchemax has a collider. This is so extremely suspicious, considering what happened with just the one from Earth 1610. This is why I do think Miguel may be wrong on the cause AND the target of his hypothesis. At the same time, when Miguel talks about the death of the captain, Hobie is the ONLY ONE who doesn't seem emotionally moved - it is not canon compliant, and yet Hobie and his universe seem totally fine. Hobie is also the only one who has similar powers to Miles, and in the comics Hobie started as The Prowler - which Miles 42 has become to fight against the Sinister Six. Hobie has a very different perspective on everything, and I can't wait to see more of him in the next movie. He's got to understand something Miguel may have missed. WHAT DO YOU KNOW, HOBIE.
I've seen people say that given his specific backstory where he's a rebel fighting fascists, Hobie probably killed his cop
Hobies does have blue laces. Those can signify having killed a cop.
@TheWizardMus this is what I was thinking as well, he doesn't show much regret during a scene where everybody else is clearly shaken. This canon event likely happened very differently for him, which throws a wrench in the theory.
The Special Session theory also ties into Hobies idea of not believing in consistency as it kind of ties into these “canon events” not being consistent and him realizing.
I don't know why know has pointed out yet. In What If, we see that Dr. Strange attempted to save Christine. But, no matter what he did, he failed to do so. This was termed as an Absolute Event. Maybe this is what a canon event is supposed to be. Finally, when Strange did actually save Christine, we see how his world completely collapses and everything just disappears.
Canon events do exist, they are just a far deeper concept than we realise.
One thing I want to point out is that when Miguel says he went to another dimension to replace his dead self so that he sees his daughter again how did he manage to travel to another dimension which he knows he’s dead in?
I would presume he just kept hopping universes til he found one.
At the end of into the spiderverse he begins hopping different universes to recruit spider people he found one close enough to his reality
My guess would be he was recruiting spideys like he was in the post credits then he hopped to that universe to recruit himself probably not realizing he’s also him , then he witnesses him die or hears about it ? Idk his timeline gets real confusing with the post credit’s because how was he recruiting spideys & taking other muguels place at the same time
@@CtznCold8365 I think he found himself when he went to Peter Bs universe or some iteration of it. When the simulation showing the universe falling apart is playing you can see another spider man in the background and it’s Peter B Parker..can’t explain it..can’t wait for the next movie either.
I just love that we can see Hobie stealing the parts to make the extra bracelet during the walk n talk to miguel
Miles may be an anomaly but he’s definitely not a mistake.
If the Web of Life and Destiny is the source of the Spider-Sense like it is in the comics we need to look at instances of it more closely.
The Spot ran a test on the collider which brought the spider that bit Miles from another dimension but it wasn’t the only spider. That test also brought Gwen to 1610. In Into the Spider-verse she says that her spider sense guided her to visions academy, where she met Miles before he was even bitten.
In Pav’s dimension we see Miles’ spider sense when Singh is in danger. But he’s the only one.
When Gwen senses that Miles is in the wrong universe it seems as the the Web of Life and Destiny has been playing a part in all of this likely to be revealed in the next movie.
Hes obviously not a mistake because the universe has many ways of making different characters.
You make a solid point. I think the “canon events” are the colliders activating and fucking everything up
Sooooo along with that, miguel is a spiderman from the future. And in his post credit scene in ITS, he uses the word “timeless” when talking about the abilities of the watch. On top of that, peter b is an older version of peter parker. Theyre intentionally giving us older and younger characters to explain time travel without saying time travel.
Hey, about the Hobie theory, I just remembered something.
In the last movie, didn't Miles see a giant cinematic Web thing that was utterly beautiful?
Into the Spider-Verse has both Miles and Blonde Peter see the entire Web of Life and Destiny. There is a reason Blonde Peter fundamentally believes in this kid he just met and a reason Miles just can't agree with this whole canon events theory. Because they saw the entire Multiverse...They subconsciously know that there's Endless Possibilities where every outcome every choice creates new realities. Blonde Peter became part of the Cosmic Web right before he died...It allowed him to send a message and portal to 616B Peter and maybe the others like Gwen, Peni, Ham and Noir to help Miles save the entire Multiverse.
Meanwhile Miles subconsciously knows for a fact that Miguel is inherently wrong. That there's thousands of realities that break the Spider-Man canon that never perish.
Spider-People with Spidey Sense are directly connected to the Mystical side of existence. It's literally a Divine Blessing allowing for limited Precognition. Miguel doesn't have it...He isn't blessed or chosen he was simply created through genetic manipulation. He's never connected to the Mystical side of existence...He'll never witness the Endless Possibilities of reality. He's limited to the places he physically visits...Which he'll never be able to visit them all he will forever remain ignorant of the vast majority of existence.
Speculation corner.
Hobie's art style frequently changes in a way that looks very similar to glitching, I get that his universe is meant to look like a collage, but I feel like the similarities between that art style and the way glitching tends to look is not an accident. Hobie's actions could be motivated by partial knowledge of the future, it could also stem from him simply having a strong impulse to break the mold, it could also be the combination thereof, upon discovering the idea of canon events, it seems 100% in his established character to want to shatter that status quo, as the only consistent part of his core philosophy seems to be an overwhelming drive to make free choices, so the slightest hint that the idea of a predetermined timeline was false could've very easily been enough to make him want to fight the timeline by every means he knows how to. This doesn't disprove the possibility of him time traveling, but it doesn't necessitate it either, him making his own multiverse watch could indicate he time traveled, but it could also simply be due to the fact that most spider people tend to be somewhat hyper intelligent, and considering the first watch was presumably made by a Spider-Man of one universe or another (theoretically Miguel, but that is not necessarily confirmed) it isn't a stretch to think that another Spider-Man could also come up with the idea on their own (especially if they have proper inspiration to do so)
That said, definitely like these theories, just came across this channel with the previous video in this series, looking forward to the next one coming out.
Miles wasn't the anomaly that Miguel mistaken he never does any harm to anyone after Gwen's betrayal
6:13 which brings up my last point on my other comment, Peter B Parker literally replaced Peter Parker from Miles’s universe in ITSV and NOTHING happened. Either this canon event theory Miguel got going on is a misunderstanding or Miguel is simply lying, there is no other way around it.
I just think that the dimensions switched up. In 42 miles dad was to die and inspire him to be Spider-man in the movie miles, his uncle was supposed to die and inspire him to become prowler. With him becoming Spider-Man the deaths still happened but the context and inspiration changes because the 42 spider bit him its mixing up the universes in the machine and showing what was meant to happen in 42 how it originally would have.
Also in earth 42 his mother didn’t know who Spider-Man was, in all universes there’s a Peter Parker Spider-Man and then a Miles morales who becomes Spider-Man so that means our miles is meant to be Spider-Man and the earth 42 one is just a variant of the first and only Spider-Man being miles
If miles is an anomaly, why does he still have canon events like the spider bite, his uncle ben moment with uncle aaron, and his dad is going to die?
Exactly, then him saving his dad wouldn’t be a canon event. It will just be an anomaly.
It doesn’t make sense. If Miles is an anomaly then cannon events cannot occur in his life. If he is not supposed to exist as Spider Man then there is no need for his father (the Captain) to die.
miles was supposed to be the prowler, his canon event is his dad's death, no matter whether he is the spiderman or the prowler
I think that canon events are not only implied to any spiderman, but actually to every character within each spiderman's universes character
3:57 the guy on the right looks like scot cawthon
3:33. I don´t remember if this scene was remove or not, but in the trailer when Gwen and Miles arrives in the Spider Society (Gwen says. "Welcome to Spider Society"), we can see Peter Parker and Miles from Earth-1048 (Marvel´s Spider-Man serie) walking around. So there must a couple of Miles´s.
something to keep in mind is that Miguel O'Hara is not a spider-person he was never bitten by a "radioactive" animal. he has to inject himself with that green liquid we saw to keep his powers he doesn't have spider-sense (which is the most important part of being a spider-person because every time someone new gets introduced we see them "connecting" with others through their spider-senses) and he can't crawl like others. he also says he is different from others. so if he isn't a Spider-Man his canon events shouldn't be the same as others so the differences in his story can be excused (referring to the previous video) but why did he choose to be a part and the leader of spider people? also in his flashbacks, we see other spider people trying to help his universe but if that was the moment he learned about canon events and how worlds get destroyed why was there a spider society? what did they do before Miguel's universe fell apart?
He is a spiderman , your forgetting that 50% of his DNA is spider. and he has to rely on his instincts , so he still counts as a spiderman just different. and he can crawl , but he can't stick to walls. he has to use his razor sharp nails or claws to crawl on things that move fast and more grip.
@@MiroSynthBit In the comics we have animal totems. meaning that spider people across the multiverse were chosen by some sort of god/gods(google spider totems) animals totems are connected to the Web of Life and Destiny. and in the movies when spider people meet their spider senses trigger because that's what connects them together. Miguel doesn't have that meaning he is not a spider totem meaning he is not one of them
@@MahdiXD Oh ok , doesn't stop a fact he is a spiderman just a different one. he still counts as spiderman. And to be honest he's more animal than any other spiderman. this guy got claws , fangs , enhanced vision so he can see in the dark.
@@MiroSynthBit yeah but what i am saying is that the canon events in his life stories aren't like other spider totems is because he is not an official spider man. because spider totems are connected by magic a a god chose them. i am talking about pt 1 of this video where he asks why those canon events he showed didn't happen to himself. also why does he choose to be a spiderman ?
@@MahdiXD We're not miguel so we cant tell , see that rhymes.
miguel is just a mad man that feels that everybody has to go thru the same pain as him. that's it that all. cannon events are just events that lead them all down the same path and not one of their own
Yeah even Miguel's in universe explanation doesn't make sense for him trying to stop miles from saving his dad. If Miguel thinks miles is an anomaly then saving his dad should not break cannon cause he's an anomaly. Actually miles dad dyeing would break cannon because a Spiderman's guardian is suppose to die.
And for 13:05 i feel that hobie never had any cannon events yet and miguel doesnt know
No cause remember, there was the police captain scene.
I think Hobie was mentored by future Miles. That’s why he’s helping him
Hobie travells to Earth-8 was a interesting concept
I agree that canon events are not a thing. The only thing we can connect between the universe-destroying disturbances is Alchemax and their (likely) use of colider tech. I only say this because where the Alchemax building, and the colider, landed in Mumbattan is where the universe-eating black hole originated from.
Now, Miguel says there have been other universes that have been seemingly destroyed in this manner, but we don't know anything about them - so I am just working with what we have been shown/told.
Miles wasn't supposed to get bitten, that was unexpected and not supposed to happen; the cannon event was that Miles G Morales was going to get bitten, but miles 1610 did instead which is the interrupted/broken cannon event
11:24 Hobie is a real one 🤝 he saw thru Miguel’s bs
2:40 no they didn’t know. When he said to go after miles there was another Spider-Man coming out of sector 4 aka where Miguel told them where miles is. Idk if you heard someone say,” is that him” look again at the clip. You will hear it!
My theory: Miguel O'hara is actually Morlun. Explaining the countless "jokes" about him being a vampire or him not being spiderman. And with him having access to a whole society of spider-people? Morlun would LOVE that. He could also pass as Miguel pretty easily, the red eyes, the claws, the fangs... This theory probably isn't true but still. Theres alot of flaws in it, like him injecting himself with the thing that the REAL Miguel uses, and him attempting to bite the vulture (supposedly with the paralyzing Venom) or maybe he was trying to literally MURDER him? Attempting to steal his life from him which is something that Morlun WOULD do. If people seeing your Identity doesn't matter if you're not in you're respective universe why would it matter? It would be initially shocking to see a Spider-Man esque person bite someone but eventually it would be probably be taken less threatening after they found out it simply paralyzed them. But stealing their life force? That wouldn't look to good...
This guy can make my mind go 🤯 over things I've never even watched
Miguel: You are an anomaly.
Loki: I'ma bout to ruin this man's whole career.
no he’s not, he’s a victim because Spot was the one who bought the spider from 42 in the first place
and Miguel accused him the wrong way
Most underrated channel out there man
No, Miles IS an anomaly, this issue isn’t that there can’t be a Miles Spider-Man, the issue is that Miles was not supposed to be the Spider-Man in his universe specifically, we don’t know everything about Canon Events, we don’t know what happens when these things occur. But Miles is 100% an anomaly
You shut u
Random fact: in Animation vs Minecraft shorts episode 30, Gold dies by a glitch while playing Minecraft causing King Orange to try to destroy Minecraft. In Across the Spider-Verse, Miguel’s daughter (and everyone else in that universe) also dies by glitch
- Hobie knew how to break the sheilds because it was a pillar of power that he learned how to destroy to fight against miguel
There is also no version of Miguel O'Hara who is also spider man
I have a small theory based on some of the best information presented. Is it possible that the dimensional collapses are a result of The Spot’s power, and not breaches of “canon” events? When we see Pav’s dimension collapsing, it appears to be collapsing into a black hole. The discrepancy of time between the universes could easily explain how a supercharged Spot would be able to cause dimensional collapse incongruent with when he acquires his upgrade.
Good follow-up, keep up the great work! 👍
Random question/theory topic recommendation: Have you ever considered doing a theory video on something like Sonic or Mario? I think The Super Mario Bros. Movie would be an interesting thing for you think about...
idk, just a thought. Don't wanna push you or anything.
Oh interesting, that a good idea! I’ll definitely at least check out what I can do with it!
Miles from ultimate. Miles from 616. Miles from insomniac.
Bro the thumbnail given off Game Theory Vibes tbh
With your theory that there is time travel, In the first movie miles is late to class and when called out he says "Einstein says time is relative, right? Maybe i'm not late, maybe you're early". It would be interesting if that was a plot device right from the beginning of the first movie, and the issues with him being an anomaly relate to people reacting to Miles because they are seeing him/his actions in the wrong frame of time.
the fact hes saying hobie as obie is killing me 😭😭😭😭
I loved both movies. It's refreshing to see them back-to-back to keep all the information fresh and ready when you need it. I think Miguel was only trying to explain things from what he experienced without having full knowledge of what made all the people disappear in his version of his canon event story. So he put the blame on Miles because even though Earth-42 Miles was supposed to be bit by the spider intended for that Miles. The Spider still bit a Miles on another earth, which still counts and still sticks to the theory of Miles becoming Spider-Man just from a different earth, and not the Miles from the intended Earth-42 who actually is The Prowler because of Earth-42's Aaron Davis.
MIGUEL CAUSED AN INCURSION
Miguel is the only anomally... he said himself. Miguel started it all.
When you started mentioning Hobie knowing the future, I was really hoping you were gonna mention my theory, which is that Hobie is future Miles. It would explain a few discrepancies like knowing to give Gwen a watch. Miles picked up that Gwen was in serious trouble before they entered Pav's universe, and Miles is smart enough to know that Gwen would have some serious consequences because of it. Another thing is why Hobie knows that Miles should use his palms. As you mentioned before, there isn't a Miles in the Spider-army, so why exactly would he know how to effectively use Miles' venom powers? We see Hobie take down the wall with a matter of playing strings on his guitar, so is it possible that the guitar amplifies the venom? It is an electric guitar, and the venom is bioelectricity, so it's not too far off. Hobie is the most interesting character solely because of this knowledge. It also seems like every Miles has the venom power, so it could be possible that a version of Peter slipped up and mentioned their version of Miles and his powers, but the question still remains of how Hobie would know that Miles should specifically use his palms. If this were true, this would create a loop in time where Hobie has to tell Miles to use his palms. Even down to the hair, they're similar. Disobeying and defying Miguel, knowing canon events are nonsense, their shared affection for Gwen, they feel like mirrors of each other, but one's older. I really need someone else to tell me their thoughts on this so I can strengthen this theory
Hobie did not know a few things though... Like that Gwen did not tell Miles everything and that he was a bit disappointed that Miles went happily into the spider society central... If he was that Miles from future, he would be not surprised and would know these...
@MirecU Well, if Hobie is from the future, he has to act like he isn't, like in a classic time travel story. Hobie still has to act like he doesn't know everything, even if he does, so he has to act stupid. Hobie is just such an underexplained character. The whole movie essentially rests on him having the knowledge that Miles should use his palms because it's how he escapes
@@bloop75 But for this information he would not need to inquire to keep his act.
On the other hand there is this concept of when Hobie is acting he is so random and colorful but when he gets to act as true Hobie, he is colored in shades of grey and is drawn more consistently. And when he became disappointed in Miles he went grey for a moment...
As to why he knew about the palms? I would say it was a guess? He is a spiderman after all and they are quite intelligent and he managed to reverse engineer the watches as well.
It is a fascinating idea that Hobie is Miles from future and that was the first idea that came to my mind when he put down his mask, but considering other facts from the movie I do not thing he is Miles from the future. But we will see...
Easy. He’s an anarchist. He’s used to breaking down barriers he’s not intended to get past. To break down any barrier, you want to have as much force behind each point of contact as you can muster. If you use your finger tips, you are dividing the amount of force between each point of contact, which greatly weakens what you’re trying to do. By using your palms, you are decreasing the points of contact to two, with the full weight of your strength behind it. What’s stronger, two battering rams of electricity and force, or ten tasers?
I believe that the only reason that the timeline calapsed was because Miguel tried to insert himself into a universe that was not his own. That has nothing to do with the thinking that Miles would do the same in his own timeline. It was the spider from another universe ( which should not have been there) that bit him. Thanks to his uncle Arron taking him to the spot where the collider was being used, which was how things got injected into incorrect timelines. And that was before Miles met the Peter Parker spiderman.
It seems like there's some overlap between Miguel and He Who Remains. Both of them think or claim they're protecting the multiverse from something, but do so in a way that curtails free will. Miguel's model is much looser given the diverse variety of spider people, but is strict on certain things. I don't think Miguel is a true villain, however. I think it's possible the third movie will introduce the Inheritors and show them as having tricked him somehow. While that's a bit late in the series, we do know that other future Sony Spiderman related movies may tie in to the Spiderverse, so them being introduced doesn't mean it's where they're the primary villain, or they could even go on to appear in MCU projects for all we know if Sony doesnt' want to go in depth with them.
Miles was bitten by a spider from Earth-42 which is why the send home machine sent him to that dimension and not Earth-1610. The Miles in 42 was supposed to become Spider-Man, he lost his dad which was also his Captain. But since he never got bit, he became the Prowler. Our Miles was never supposed to be the Spider-Man of Earth-1610. Peter Parker with the blonde hair was and he would've destroyed the collider and beat Kingpin and Green Goblin if he wasn't distracted with Miles.
what if miles absorb The Spot Ability?
if miles absorb The Spot Ability, miles will not glitching in every other Universe and can go to every other universe without using WATCH GIZMO
because miles can absorb power
and some Question " what are the differents between GIZMO and GOOBER? "
in movie into the spider verse
peter call override key "GOOBER"
Spiderman noir call COLLIDER "Gizmo"
Miquel first Time Get Watch Call it "GOOBER"
Lyla Replied it is "GIZMO"
GIZMO cause problem
GOOBER the Cure
Spot’s spots are the equivalent of Miguel’s watches so spot could have gone back in time and mess up the universe Miguel replaced himself in
And in ps4 spider man they are two spider man in inside but miguel sayed there cant be two spider in one universe
When watching this movie given the information that was displayed I assumed that “breaking the canon” was Sony’s way of saying “incursions” because of the way it sounded like and looked like. Plus I used Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness’ scene with Reed Richards explaining incursions to Dr Strange as a basis. Two universes collide and the winner survives but loser is destroyed… Miguel entered a new universe and triggered an incursion by staying too long. Reed said something like “the greater the footprint the greater the risk” makes sense since Miguel spent time in that world with a daughter he particularly didn’t have but ya know alt universes.
I personally believe that Miguel's canon events arent real and are just a theory he strung together using similar enough events from the variant of *one* person (Peter Parker) to justify his actions. He's also using canon events as a tool to control spider-people he personally recruited, probably inadvertently causing deaths that could be prevented. he convinced these people that their suffering has meaning using something that doesn't really hold up when closely examined. i don't think his intentions are malicious but out of ignorance and guilt he's going to cause a lot of death and that's what's really going to drive home that he's wrong.
also Miguel has some balls to mention the web of life and destiny to justify his actions when he can't even access it. it's why he doesn't have a Spidey sense. he's basically a mutant but not in the xgene sense.
EDIT: I also think he deliberately recruited spider-folk he thinks he could influence and use. hobbie is an outlier to this but i think that was an infiltration to disrupt the spider society and to stop miguel. also it's deliberate that we don't see any other miles morales spider-men even though we as the audience knows they exist. if say ps4!miles was there alongside his ps4!peter it would make it harder to justify miguel's vendetta against 1610b/itvs!miles because it would point out that miguel's theory that only 1 spider-man at a time could exist on top of miles being spider-man not being an anomaly. there's also comics!miles(1610/616) who's a child of two universes and shares the title with no issue with 616!peter.
tldr: miguel is full of it and is basically pulling a batman at his worst: a controlling, manipulative messed up man who thinks he has to be in control of everything in order to save people but will f up badly harming them instead. he singled out miles on purpose because his existence pokes holes in his canon event excuse and will cause the spider-society to question him and themselves. he doesnt truly know what caused his stolen life to be erased and is just looking for something convenient while blaming himself.
Hobie's 'anarchistic' view could even give him an almost deadpool type effect of foresight. Not explicit like a script but a feeling or momentum
I typed this before you actually mentioned it in the later half but it's fascinating how we came to a similar point, there was always something off with Hobie not just the visual style but how he seems unphased by things
Do you know that spider man(Andrew Garfield) was the first person to break the Canon
In the no way home movie Andrew Garfield saved MJ when she was falling to his death, but Andrew Garfield(spider man) wasn't able to save his Gwen,
This means one of spider man's girlfriend is suppose to die just like how a police officer close to spider man is suppose to die by saving a small kid or spider man Uncle Ben, Uncle Aaron or Aunt May is suppose to die. That means all these things started with spider man (Andrew Garfield) breaking the canon
Miguel is for real obsessed. Miles is the anomaly because he's the only one he hasn't gotten to bend to his will, his willing of his delusion into reality (listen to Spider-Man India: 'I can do both!') He's got most of the multiverse, including Miles's bestie(s). He's like Thanos in that way, whether you're cool with it or not, "he's inevitable."
Funny how spot is the one that'll erase that possibility.
I personally curious what they’re gonna do with Lyla, who is she? Is she a spider person? Is she an AI? A hologram? Something else?
Lyla is Ms. Minutes
@@blueusher 🙊🙊🙊 I didn’t know that omg 👀 Thank you for telling me /srs
The simpler explanation for the Hobie theory is just his anarchistic nature, man sees system, man breaks system
It's hinted that Gwen might have a link to the web and destiny
They all do...If they have Spidey Sense that IS the tether the link. It's a Mystical Connection to the Divines and All Realities that gives the Spiders limited Precognition. Miguel and Depowered Spiders are the exception.
Gwen's is extremely powerful to detect Miles being harmed in another dimension. The most powerful Spidey Sense ever seen. Which indicates that she's an incredibly powerful Spider, that Love and Empathy empower the ability, that Miles and Her are Cosmically linked to one another literally Two Halves or Soulmates or each of them are direct Champions of the Deities.
Even the Cosmos/Gods are shipping Miles x Gwen lol. Also given what Spidey Sense is...Given Miles has it he's not a mistake or at least his nature as an Anomaly doesn't fundamentally matter to the Cosmos/Gods. Otherwise they would've depowered him.
@@flamesofchaos13 I think is more than that because Charlotte Morales-Stacy have a same ability....now it might be a stretch...but I think that Miles and Gwen are suppose to be together to raise Charlotte. It's possible that Hobie might of seen that future
@@Shinigami88X1 Earth 8 is a possible future in the comics which as of right now has nothing to do with the films. I would love it if we do see Earth 8 as an alternate reality tho that further proves canon events don't exist or as the conclusion to the story it's creation being the ending. I would love to see Gwen and Miles and Miles 42 react to this potential future...Maybe it's even left ambiguous which Miles she's married too (though obviously will be 1610B). Peter B and Noir and Ham would really be having a laugh about it trolling the young lovebirds.
Also don't forget about their son and that Peni and Ham or at least Variants of them and a Kraven Daughter/Granddaughter Spider-Girl (that has a lot of interesting story potential) are also part of the roster of Heroes. Gotta say if Earth 8 or Earth 8B is the ending...It's pretty logical and makes way more sense for these films than it does in the comics.
By the way they're specifically making a Spider-Woman spin-off more than likely a sequel starring Gwen and Jess and introducing Silk. If Earth 8 is the setting and has a storyline involving Kraven...That could be about the origins of that unnamed Spider-Girl. Who I assume is an adoptive daughter...Which it makes sense to me if any Spiders were to adopt a villain's kid/grandkid it would be the Stacy-Morales line given Miles is the nephew of the Prowler who is apparently meant to be the Prowler if things were different. This would be a family that understands moral ambiguity and second chances more than most who would show unconditional love to them.
Man if this is Rio and Jeff legacy they have every right to be proud. Spider-Prowler-Kraven Grandkids...Would hate to babysit them tho. Talk about menaces!
@@flamesofchaos13 I would love to see Gwen telling Charlotte about what happen in the Spiderverse
Hobie being able to travel through time (or even space), or just having some kind of knowledge makes a LOT of sense when you realize he's more based on Spider-UK (the literal leader of the Spider Army in the comics) than the actual Spider-Punk, who HAD the ability to travel through dimensions and was the only one capable of fighting Incursions, the comic version of the "anomalies"/super collisions.
Hobie is a time traveler
7:12 That was a diagram created to help explain canon events to Spider-people.
Another dose of background noise to listen to! I always enjoy these theories Rem!
Thank you so much!
Miles isn’t an anomaly nor is he breaking cannon on his Earth. His Spider-Man died in front of him. His future changed when he got bitten by the Earth 42 spider, he was going to be a Prowler. Now that he’s on Earth 42 we’ll see what happened to their Peter and if he was bitten by a different spider or maybe he became Venom.
We see multiple Miles variants in the Spider Society headquarters. The only spider variant we haven’t seen is Gwen. (Which will supposedly be explored in the next movie). I think that Miguel’s multiverse tech is narrow compared to the whole spider verse or even the Web of Life and Destiny. He’s based his whole motive on limited information with the help from an algorithm. I’m sure we will see so many more variants and styles in the next movie.
Only we see Miles-42 what version the movie you see?😂
@@marianomartinez3008 In the citadel, PS4 Spider-Man (not PS5, they are different) is seen walking with a Miles variant. And I think there are others in the background that have Miles' colors/designs. But maybe they are meant to be Easter eggs instead of variants of his because Miguel specifically calls our Miles for the chase.
referring to 0:23 where Miguel didn't prevent the attack. Gwen also didn't when she just came into that building and called the Vulture
Canon events might never exist in universes without spidermen, so that would mean the spider bite is not a canon event instead it starts canon events
Hi!
Hello!
I think Lyla is the puppet master ngl. When the spider society circles Miles in that one scene Miles says something along the lines of "We're supposed to trust an algorithm?"
You talk so slow that at 1.25x speed you sound normal
You just suffer from tiktok brain