Personally, I just think them equaling siblings doesn’t work. I just prefer Robots & Clones being able to be their own person instead of being another way to have a sibling. But for Ben Reilly, yeah him being like a brother works. It fits with the relatability aspect of every Spider-Man’s life. So I just think it fits Ben’s character really well.
@@ShockwaveFPSStudios Wait, how is them being their own person incompatible with them being treated as a sibling? I mean, if anything the former seems like a _prerequisite_ for the latter: That sort of relationship usually starts with the original having to accept the copy as a separate person with their own identity.
To this day I find it hilarious how Spider-Man TAS dunked on the Clone Saga when Peter said “it sounds like a bad comic book plot.” And Ben then says “it gets worse”.
It's funny now because today it is overly done but back then it was rare and hilarious. The 90s Spidey show was flawed but it was great along with 90s X-Men and all of the DCAU shows.
@@mandalorianhunter1 If you can get past the very cheesy acting and some awkward censorship, it still holds up. It had the 1st Spider-Verse event and if I understand right, retold the Symbiote origin into the classic Venom story (and not the weird Secret Wars origin of the Black Suit). Show gets very bonkers at times, but darn if they don't commit to the bit.
The biggest tragedy of Ben Reilly is how because of Marvel editorial holding back Peter at every turn, we'll never get a moment where Peter has kids that call him "Uncle Ben"
I love how marvel makes stupid decision after stupid decision in pursuit of keeping characters like Spiderman marketable to audiences, and in the process completely kill the comic industry...
@@stoopidapples1596 Know what else is crazy. Superman is a married Dad now, and DC is happy leaning into how Batman has become a foster father, with the Robins calling each other brothers and Batman calling them his sons. (Wish they did more with this relationship with Orphan though, he adopted her in an old timeline but I think that got retconned) The competition has let it's two biggest heroes, arguable the two biggest heroes ever, evolve into middle aged family man Elder Statemen of the Superhero community. Yet We want something similiar with peter so badly, and can't get it!
I get the sentiment, but I'm also pretty sure although they are alternate.Universes mayday Parker and I think Annie Mae Parker. Both know about Ben Riley and have called him. Uncle Ben, obviously. He is dead in both of those universe, so they don't ever say it to his face. Mayday actually Turned his costume into her spider girl costume.
The most lowkey tragic thing I felt when reading Ben's stories was during the Beyond arc when he accidentally called himself "Peter" in a thought bubble. I don't know why, but that really hit hard for me.
And then once he hangs up the phone with May, she realizes it's not Peter Like damn, the start of Beyond was so promising and halfway Marvel editorial turned it into a Ben Reilly torture роrn for NO reason with everyone hating him
@@dastanovich2476I would say the Beyond run only turns into "The Ben Reilly Torture Porn Hour" at the 99.9999% mark. Because up until the last issue, there was still a compelling story being told. Ben struggling to keep himself together after being mentally fucked with by Maxine. Peter still recovering, but needing to put an end to all this to save his loved ones. The friends and allies that Ben had made over the run coming in to help him out because they do care for him. The wacky and weird shit that Beyond was cooking up behind the scenes. It was all really good and tons of fun. Hell even the final Spider-Man vs. Spider-Man fight would have been great if Peter had just knocked Ben out, webbed him up and got him out of there to help his brother. Instead the ending, in trying to be tragic, just comes off as stupid. And it's all hijacked by another Marvel editorial mandate to keep Peter and Mary Jane apart, to really take a shit on what would other wise have been a great run of comics. At this point, Peter finding a way to save his brother would have been more unexpected than the "tragic" ending we got. Oh well. At least Chasm is cool, in a "so bad it's fun" way
Ben Reilly should have never been killed off. They should have kept him as the lead of Sensational and Peter as the lead of Amazing and had them team up often as brothers. I genuinely LOVED their interactions towards the end, with Ben helping Pete with building the crib and the like. Pete and MJ should have had May as well, thus he would be spending less time as Spidey but all the single guy Spidey tropes would live on with Ben. Marvel literally could have pleased every fan by going this route, both the "Pete needs to be single" and the "Pete happily married and growing up" crowd. Ben and the audience were done a disservice by Marvel.
Ben and Peter are probably the best way to do two Spidermen at the same time. Peter and Miles don't really work if Peter is never going to pass down the mantle and Miles has to retread the same beats as Peter.
Man, if I had a time machine I’d have written down these ideas and placed it on the writers’ desks. I can even see a scene in my head of Rhino or the like causing trouble, Peter apologizing for leaving MJ and May on an outing they were on (maybe some dialogue along the lines if “Ben isn’t here right now” and Peter not being able to stand by if he can just help someone), Pete trading blows, then Ben swinging in and telling Pete to go back to his family because he can handle Rhino. Heck I could imagine writers trying to set him up with Black Cat, resetting that, and then starting years of fan discussion.
@@hyperion3145 I feel like Miles and Peter would work more if they interacted more outside of big events. Like maybe give them a comic run like Spider-Man/Deadpool or Spider-Man/Human Torch.
The worst part of the whole thing is that in this current era of "Spider-Verse" and Miles Morales, comic book audiences are more than capable of accepting multiple characters co-existing as Spider-Man -- and yet poor Ben is STILL getting dumped on. I see absolutely no reason why Ben can't continue to be another Spider-Man and stay true to his original heritage, and yet writers insist on treating him like a joke that they can harass and abuse with no consequences. Sadly, the 1990s story was all about how Ben's life had value no matter how he was born, but Marvel comic book creators seem to have forgotten all about that.
Ben should have been the Jason Todd Red Hood of Spiderman’s group. Getting a proper second chance to be a better, more popular character with decent storytelling.
I've no problem with representation and progress etc. But the only reason they don't treat Ben Riley seriously, he's not black, woman or LGBT. Maybe he should become a terrorist for Hamas, then he'll be PC again.
@michaeljung1662 Speak for yourself! I never liked the concept of multiple spider men as it cheapens who Peter is and makes it complicated. And while good stories can come of it like spider verse, Miles is better served by being his own spider person like Ben. And even then so, I’d say if it’s between making another cheap( and I stress this word ) mantle swap or making an original good character. I will take the latter everyday of the week. But it seems like some folks prefer co-opting and scraps. Sad.
@@jacobchanza5484 Green Goober also boinked Gwen and got her pregnant before it was retconned. Honestly, the writers are making him less devious and just... Really odd with how he gets revenge.
Peter and Ben are at their worst spots, Kaine just forgotten at a time where you could honestly have him in and it'd fit. Where you could easily do a Switch up of Redemption, as Kaine takes Ben's role and redeems Ben and helps him like he did for him. It's just so unfortunate that Editorial LITERALLY ENDS BENS STORY WITH HIM BEING EVIL IN THE LAST 3 TITLES HE'S BEEN IN save for Spiderverse.
Spiderverse Ben was a melodramatic parody of a character that didn't actually exist, who was part of an inter-dimensional Spider-Man death cult, so. Uh. He's not doing much better, all things considered.
@@fanb1536 I admit, the Ben Reiley joke in Spider-verse was probably one of the few gags I wasn't a fan of. Mainly because his actual personality is so much more than the "haha, edgy 90's character" trope that replacing it with the gag felt dissapointing.
@@onglanh5329 Absolutely. Like, forget about how they butchered the new characters like 2099 and co; they couldn't even keep straight 90% of the first film's cast 💀 And the one new character I actually enjoyed (The Spot) just dips from the plot 2/3's into the film's bloated runtime, aaaaaaaaaa this film blew so hard
@@onglanh5329 Miguel is very different from the comics, but I actually don't mind. As long as what you're doing is interesting, it can deviate from the source material. That's why I used Ben Reiley as an example of not doing it right.
Love Ben Reilly, the first comic I ever bought was the issue where he took over as Spider-Man. So glad to see someone put a lot of my thoughts on the character, and the current state of comics, into words.
Ben in the 90s era (specifically his time going into becoming the Sensational Spider-Man) under JMD is some of the most riveting Spidey media to date. It was legitimately inspiring how he was a version of Peter that overcame his severe guilt complex and turned it into a innate desire to do the right thing. The fact that he was just happy to be alive and that he wanted to be better for the sake of everyone around him? In all of the Clone Saga’s shittiness, Ben’s growth from severe self-loathing to confidence genuinely felt earned. Boy, I hope that’s not ruined in the future! Right?…
I love Kraven's Last Hunt but it hurts that it's the only Spidey work of JMD that gets heavily discussed or spotlighted. His name should be getting dropped alongside Straczynski and Stern when it comes to his contributions.
I loved that stuff. I suffered through so much of the plodding clone "saga" and got to that and was like wow this is really good Spider-Man. Then that got rug-pulled. I also liked Kaine the brutal failed clone, and years later they made him a rough & tumble Scarlet Spider, then they killed him too.
Why tho, is something wrong? I hope not, but if there is, you should read stoicism, 22 stoic principles on yt, and just talk about this with someone who can help
There was something so innocent and heartwarming about the idea of Ben taking over as Spider-Man and letting Peter be happy. There is something that is so genuinely nice about Peter and his clone considering eachother brothers. The comics status quo is the most cruel antagonist in mainstream comics, when it exists, no-one can be truly happy, since that doesn't sell.
While I had heard about Ben Reilly before, my first real exposure to his character was in Across the Spider Verse. And don't get me wrong, Andy Samberg plays a funny parody of overly-edgy 90s comic characters. But after seeing your video, it almost makes me wish we could have gotten some of that depth represented in the film. This was a gripping story with heartwarming ups and heartbreaking downs, and I really enjoyed your own insights into the character. Thanks for sharing!
Could you imagine how Peter is gonna explain to his daughter her Uncle Ben? "Ye so your uncle, my brother wasn't my brother but my clone that was depressed so he changed his name to Ben.... Then after some time he died.... I miss him"
@@heronik79 Understanding. After all, she knew her costume wasn't her fathers, so it was more like actually getting to know about an uncle she never could meet herself.
That actually happens in the Spider-Girl comics, though he explains it as Ben was aunt May’s nephew he met in college who gained spider powers from a mad scientist whose experiments he still didn’t understand.
Ben Reiley really was the ultimate bro. He was one of the best things to come out of the Clone Saga; and, despite Marvel throwing monkey wrenches into his life, we still never forgot our Scarlet Spider!❤🕷
The idea that ben couldve been the original Pete, can be executed very well, the fact that they were switch by the end of the gerry conway run, and realizing from then on it was ben we were following rather than pete is an idea that could be executed very well
I started reading comics when Ben was Spider Man and he was my boy. I was really excited for the Scarlet Spider series because about halfway in it looked like the Clone Saga was finally behind him and they were going set him up as some kind of mystical Spider Man with his own thing. Didn't pan out, they shat in his mouth again, and they still have no idea what to do with the character.
It's so funny because they keep handing Ben's mainstream stuff to writers who openly don't care for the character, just writing him as 'the clone who wants to take Peter's life' something he was only in the 70s. Writers like Cantwell, Foxe or Dematties have to actively fight to have him in any small way in runs they're doing
you know what's even worse? how blatantly they try time and time again to give Bens costume to Peter, because they know his design was better. Don't believe me? look up the costume from the recent Videogame and "superior" spider-ock, and tell me these aren't just Bens designs with the numbers filed off.
Ngl back in 2011 on novaskin i recolored a ben reilly skin for minecraft to have a white symbol and its 100 percent identical to the advanced suit. Biggest bs i ever saw
@@EnerKaizer This had been going on since the concept phases for the Raimi movies. I believe Ross' design for the Spiderman suit was pretty much a black version of Ben Reilly's Spiderman suit which they ripped for Ock. At least Mayday Parker uses it in tribute and pays respect to Ben, but Ock using Ben's drip without even noting it is probably his worst crime. I think Kaine and Miles are even taking his designs in newer comics.
Even the OG Scarlet Spider suit with the hoodie looks clean. It feels like in most media Ben is in, the designers decided to go off and give his suits more personality than Peter's
Mr. Lennen you have somehow found a way to release a video exactly in the middle of times where my life is getting hard. These videos are always so good, and they always help to bring me back to normality. It's a crazy coincidence, but it's happened like three times now. God bless you, man, I appreciate it.
Very well put. I'm still bitter but you put it really well. I hate how dark web acted like there weren't 7 telepaths, 47 scientists and 137 super heroes that all could have solved the whole thing in five minutes while simultaneously saving Ben from his current situation.
By the look of things, we might as well put some (teeny tiny amounts of) faith in the Dark X-Men mini, which features Ben Reilly, to improve things for him and wash off what Dark Web did. That's personally my last shot at any X-Men/Spider-Man crossover because Uncanny Spider-Man isn't standing on thin ice anymore, it fell through the cracks and froze to death.
@@rennythespaceguy7285 To give credit where credit is due : He seems to have more knowledge on Spider-Man lore than the X-Men one so he's the best and only shot Ben is going to get until the end of this year to bounce back as a character. May the Editors behind Dark X-Men actually help the situation instead of worsening it : Even if Fall of X hasn't been that great so far, there's still some time left before it closes off any doors to the non X-Men characters it involved.
@@spinningtornado4543 Yeah, pretty much. I think it's funny that he seems to be one of two writers for Ben post resurrection that actually cares for the character and both of the writers who do have any sort of attachment to him were writing unrelated books before choosing to just drop him in because they could.
@@rennythespaceguy7285 Things be like that sometimes but I guess, for the past couple of years at least, this trend has been more and more frequent across different franchises. Another example would be how Zeb Wells treats X-Men characters Vs Spider-Man ones : Zeb Wells' Hellions (2020) is considered by plenty of X-Men fans to be THE only interesting, enjoyable and good run since the X-Men reboot started and the characters in it were mostly C-list ones. Then you have his Amazing Spider-Man run, which doesn't deserve more words than necessary, so... It is bad. Now take Dark Web, an X-Men/Spider-Man crossover event Zeb Wells took an active part in writing, and look at which characters from their specific franchise got the shortest end of the stick by the end of it and up until now.
Clone characters struggling with identity and how they should move forward and handle it (the loss of a life and relationships that were never yours, the perception of other people towards you for something you couldn’t choose or control)… it is one of my favorite story beats of all time. Adore it to bits. So much angst to explore
Ben being emblematic of turning something negative (something created to destroy Psychologicallly speaking) and turned into something positive (a brother figure) is actually quite nuanced. Fits the theme of Spider-man (or what the theme should be).
Ben Reilly really should be the mentor figure spidey of mainline spider-man. I really love Ben Reilly's easygoing energy that is still somehow engaged to everyone's lives around him. Ben is like the great uncle family man that hasn't been given its full potential yet. Yes I know Life Story is a thing, he died, doesn't count cuz I say so even if its a good story
The last section about "just pretending this stuff doesn't exist" is great. I don't think a lot of people are comfortable ignoring canon and retcons, especially for characters like Spider-Man, but so little of it matters in any way.
I love Peter but Ben’s sheer will, determination, and selfness after constant suffering for five years and yet he’s still able to rise above it all is to me what makes him the greatest Spiderman.
Ben never physically appears in Spider-Girl from what I remember but I remember his impact on May. He's there in spirit as her Uncle Ben, in the costume she chose and her sense of responsibility, and in Kaine trying to redeem himself for what he did to him becoming the weird Uncle who helps from time to time. Rest in Peace Ben Reilly, and goodbye Peter, MJ, and Mayday Parker. I'm content with believing in a fun ending and fond memories of a Spider-family instead of an endless story where things stopped mattering.
I know you live in the UK, but as a Canadian, the amount of sleep i am sacrificing right to watch your videos is unfathomable. Never stop making these.
@alexlennen, but hey of you ever have the time (and by that, i mean the ability to recollect all of your energy from making this video). i loved it if you made a video about Mary Jane. You could even talk about the miniseries *the amazing Mary Jane* where shes an actress playing in a film directed by mysterio.
Giving peter a brother who is also spider man is so raw, clone shenanigans aside it's just wholesome to see peter have someone who he can relate to on such a deep level.
Honestly I really appreciate your take on the whole fluid head cannon thing, cuz that's how I like to come at almost every story I experience. I'd much rather find something to love that go looking for reasons to hate something. I feel like I've gained a lot more by just saying 'it's not for me' and finding something else to watch or read or whatever.
For people who've invested years reading and hoping to see Peter/Ben/any other comicbook character develop and make progress in his personal life, it's hard to just stop reading/having expectations/wanting to see something specific after so much investment. For me, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth if I don't get to see a character I've grown to care about be denied of any resolution or even happiness.
The classic Spidey costume is great, of course. The clean Black Spiderman look is fantastic as well, obviously. Inspired. But the Scarlet Spider costume is so fucking underrated; what a great look. Simple but with enough color to not be bland. And it actually feels realistic, like... were I the person who cosplayed, I'd cosplayed as the Scarlet Spider, because that's an actual costume you could put together. (Also, the one that's a tweaked version of the classic costume, with the added black... I think that might be the one Ben started using when he took over? Fucking badass. Hard to tweak a classic look and make it look just as good, much less better, but I think that one did it.)
i missss funny old school youtubers. this video was a joy to find even as someone who doesnt know much about spiderman comics. Great work man made my night!
ben reilly is one of my favorite characters ever, both spider-man related and in general, and its so sad to see how dirty he's been done for so long now. but im glad to know there are a lot of other people out there love him to. if only marvel editorials did as well..
I wonder if Alex will talk about all the other Spidermen now. Some of their stories are really interesting and I would love a deeper dive into their personalities.
Scarlet Spider has always been my favorite Spidey. The cool costume grabbed my attention as a kid; I love that sleeveless hoody, but his good heart and willingness to sacrifice his happiness for the greater good was what made me love the guy. I would have turned evil a dozen times over, but not Ben.
Alex lennen’s videos are probably my most favorite comic book videos to watch. He just makes them so humorous but keeps the seriousness of the comic book story as he speaks.
It's almost like Marvel LITERALLY has the perfect formula to please the fans. Peter slowing down with MJ to have Mayday and Ben coming back as Spider-Man.
If comics have gotten as bad as y'all say they are then one of y'all should try writing a fanfic about this, marvel/Disney shouldn't be able to take it down so long as it remain none profit y'know
I’ve been on TH-cam for waaaaay more than a decade and I very rarely comment… this is the very first time I say… you deserve more subscribers… quality hook, narration and content overall
It's my 20 years birthday and I'm really happy that I found your videos, I never knew that there is someone who loves Spider-Man so much like I do. It's kinda inspiring, listening how you care about characters and story, love your videos, man.
Hey Alex, just wanted to say that I really appreciate your videos. As a non comic book reader, I really enjoy hearing your insight and retellings of these timeless stories. Keep it up!
I'm a '90s kid, I started reading Spiderman during the Clone Saga, and I really liked (again, I was 10), and not only I really liked Ben Reilly, I remember most fans loving Ben Reilly, and most of us were perfectly fine when they started presenting the idea of him taking the mantle, and Peter retiring...and then they made "twist", telling fans Peter was the clone, its what turned everyone against Ben. And about post-OMD Spiderman, I'm just like you, I just pretend those stories just dont exist, he accepted May's death, Dr Strange made everyone forget his identity, and that was it. Anyway, back to Ben, at this point we all know the joke about Marvel hating Peter Parker, but I think there is one character they hate more; Ben Reilly. When I saw Spiderverse 2, where not only is he on the "villains" side, but they reduced his entire character to be a "'90s sucked" joke...poor Ben.
I really admired Ben Reilly as a kid. I used to read a bundle of 90s Spidey issues that my mom got me while lying in the hospital bed that I were confined to for much of my early life, so Ben's story really affected me. He lost literally everything, yet never gave up on his ideals and hope for a better tomorrow.
Saw Ben Riley for the first time on Spider-Man the animated series from the 90s. Always thought he was neat where I got a poster of him in my room. I think he represents a part of spider man that is his best trait and it’s perseverance. Like how Batman his determination, Superman is hope, Spider-Man has the will of a normal man to grapple with it all and keep going.
That last part really struck a chord (the headcanon stuff, not the Sainsbury's stuff. I'm not ready to admit my crimes yet). You're right: comics and serialised storytelling are perhaps the easiest forms of stories to adapt to your own whims. Heck, you can simply reorganise your shelves and bam, new storyline. I've nothing profound to add, I just really agree with your take there.
I love these kinds of commentaries. You're not just reading the comic scans aloud and obnoxiously, you know I'm going to pause and read it anyway. You use that time to add your own interpretations and commentary on it and I think that's what all of these comic videos on TH-cam should be like.
While I haven't read everything from the Clone Saga, Ben is still a very special character to me, be it his design, the simple idea of a clone of Spider-Man, something about it him always interested me and he's been my Favorite Spider-man just behind Peter himself, and it really hurts that they continue to just, reduce him to a villain. Worst of all is them saying that he has no place in Spider-man stories, yet they keep adding more spider-people. Why not add to this pre-existing character, instead of creating more Spider-Men?! Personally I take a step even further, I pretend that Ben remained a good guy after the Spider-Geddon event, Peter settled down, became a father, and Ben was finally able to be the Uncle that he hoped to one day be
You thought Peter's been through some shit for the last few years or so thanks to Marvel's editorial team, Ben Reilly feels like he's the local punching bag of Spider-Man comics for literal decades.
Hey Alex. Casual glancer here. I really enjoyed your summary of the character pre-Dead No More, and I want to say, excellent video. I can't really judge a fan using wishful headcannon (especially when it's truer to the medium than the creators are), but I think the hope modern fans have is defined here, too. They _do_ care about Spider-Man, even after all the ugliness, so some will still stand to argue for his future direction, even if it means being face to face with Dark Webs and the like.
This was a cool breakdown of ben’s life from the clone saga to now Alex Lennen, it’s really interesting yet sad since he can’t get happiness for out-of-universe reasons.
The scarlet spider suit is one of my fav suits in the Insomniac games. I love how vibrant the red against the the blue is. The whole suit has such a cool vibe to it.
Man I've been waiting for this video. Editorial's biggest sins is the way they've handled Peter and MJ's relationship and Ben Reilly. Just imagine if we had a competent team of editors who actually cared about these characters
Ahhh I've been waiting for this... far and away my favorite Spider-Man, done dirty again and again in the comics... he never got a break, and he deserved one! Even the new spiderverse movie did him dirty 😭
As a Pacific Rim fan, delusion and headcannon has also been my preferred coping method to avoid acknowledging the existence of a specific installment of the franchise
Wow. I usually never cared for Clone Saga, but watching your video made it actually interesting. Honestly, regarding considering what is Canon and what is not, to me Spidey stories as just great to the end of Brand New Day era. When Slott started doing the whole Big Time, setting the stage for Superior Spiderman, that is where Spider-Man went downhill.
Alex I just want to say that I love your work and it really is funny and well done. Lots of your videos have made me cry. I love the way you write and my favorite video is the wall one. Thanks for being so positive and funny. Looking forward for years of new videos.
Great video, i could feel how personal your love for this character is. I totally understand why spider verse refused to take him seriously and just made him a complete joke
Phenomenal as always, your work never disappoints. Have you ever considered doing more videos on characters with shorter, maybe less well-known histories?
I definitely agree with your take-away at the end =) I started reading a lot of classic Spider-Man comics recently - partly because of your videos Alex. I'd always figured it wasn't worth it, because the end destination was never going to be satisfying. But with Spider-Girl as a follow-up, I can totally get the fairly cohesive story from 1962 through around 2006-2010. Peter's with MJ, their daughter's a hero, and Ben Reilly's legacy is intact and an inspiration to his niece.
As insane as the idea of denial and cope sounds when reading comics; deciding what story happened and what didn’t, it’s very appealing. So much so that DC basically canonised the idea with the omniverse. The ultimate admission of not giving a shit about maintaining the characters they legally own, and instead letting you, the customer be your own curator of the story. It was this point, and others in the recent Spider-man run that kinda jaded me on comics from the big 2. As much as I wish I could cope my way through stories, that is antithetical to good writing. Not to mention, new stories often rely on previous ones that you can’t cope your way around. It certainly doesn’t help stories that are just garbage from the get go and internally contradict their own lore. A lot of writers and people in general see canon as this albatross you have to work within the confines of to write your story, but building upon canon also allows you to access some of the best and most cathartic payoffs. It’s why the best writers are the ones that clearly know their stuff.
Ben Reilly from the moment i saw him in the 90s series became my all time favorite version of Spider-Man and its sad that his only win since the 90s is his solo run back in 2022 and yet people ended up talking about Dark Web over J.M's amazing story on him as the Sensational Spider-Man again. We want Ben to be a hero again yet fans would rather talk about his Chasm arc just because it makes them mad rather than celebrate how amazing his run as Sensational Spider-Man was.
Loved Scarlet Spider in the 90s, but plot-twist: They both are clones. (I mean all clones disintegrated on death, and they found a legit dead skeletal Peter Parker during the the whole shenanigans). Would have loved for the clone saga to end a few years earlier, rather than being dragged out to long, with Ben emerging alive and having adventures apart from clone-related stuff.
I think about that skeleton a lot. At the time the idea was that was another clone and only imperfect Clone disintegrated into dust upon death, but when they Killed Ben they wanted it to be undeniable he was the clone so he disintegrated despite it being made apparent repeatedly that Ben was a perfect clone. So yes, because no writer has ever fixed this as of the current canon the real Peter died years ago and the Peter and Ben we know now are both clones.
The first time i was introduced to Ben was during the last few epsiodes of the 90s Spiderman cartoon. I loved his design and his quick introduction as a character. Ever since then the character has always been a favorite of mine, a man who was a clone and when the world gave him nothing he pushed back and tried to save it anyways Across the spider verse interpretation was funny, but i couldnt help but be disappointed in how they made him just a joke.
I genuinely love Ben Reilly, it was amazing and he’s worthy of being appreciated and given a right ending. A deserving ending, not being abused and dunked on.
Spider-Editorial really needs a much needed new blood, one that is not fixated in making it a misery fest Peter, MJ, Mayday, Ben, everyone deserves better
Same, I grew up reading 90s clone saga and seeing it all undone and the state of things now.... nice to know I'm not alone with the feelings of what could have been
He didn’t put “rise” or “fall” in the title
I had to restrain myself
@@alexlennenOr the history
@@alexlennen Let’s just hope you don’t have a relapse.
Should’ve put “sin eater” in the title
@@alexlennenrelapse... relapse... rising and falling... (subliminal messaging)
We finally have the video covering the only character the marvel writers hate more than Spider-Man, clone Spider-Man
Marvel Writers hate Peter so much that they had to make a second one to torture him twice as hard.
@@TheAzulmagia I hate the marvel writers
@@TheAzulmagia Three, Kaine gets fucked up a lot too
It really do be like that lol
So ironic 💀💀💀
Characters accepting their clones/copies as siblings is actually one of my favorite tropes.
Indeed
Personally, I just think them equaling siblings doesn’t work. I just prefer Robots & Clones being able to be their own person instead of being another way to have a sibling.
But for Ben Reilly, yeah him being like a brother works. It fits with the relatability aspect of every Spider-Man’s life. So I just think it fits Ben’s character really well.
@@ShockwaveFPSStudios Wait, how is them being their own person incompatible with them being treated as a sibling? I mean, if anything the former seems like a _prerequisite_ for the latter: That sort of relationship usually starts with the original having to accept the copy as a separate person with their own identity.
Shoutout to Fern adventure time 👏
@@hopefulfriend4163 yessss i love fern so much
To this day I find it hilarious how Spider-Man TAS dunked on the Clone Saga when Peter said “it sounds like a bad comic book plot.” And Ben then says “it gets worse”.
It's funny now because today it is overly done but back then it was rare and hilarious.
The 90s Spidey show was flawed but it was great along with 90s X-Men and all of the DCAU shows.
@@mandalorianhunter1 If you can get past the very cheesy acting and some awkward censorship, it still holds up. It had the 1st Spider-Verse event and if I understand right, retold the Symbiote origin into the classic Venom story (and not the weird Secret Wars origin of the Black Suit).
Show gets very bonkers at times, but darn if they don't commit to the bit.
@@leithaziz2716 boy I know all that already, I'm a 90s kid but glad you know your stuff.
It did while also adding the symbiote personality change.
@@leithaziz2716facts
@@leithaziz2716Billy B. Bonkers saying “scorched Earf” level bonkers?
Not only did the jackal clone Peter's DNA. He also cloned the writers need to completly destroy a Parker. A truly impressive scientific feat.
Lollll
Without the Mephisto reset button. But then again, Jackal didn't clone Mephisto, just Peter
so one of the writers has the DNA of Norman Osbourne...
They made an entire spiderverse to torture parkers infinitely forever
conceptual proof that to be spiderman in marvel IS to be royally screwed. the more closely you resemble him the more you must SUFFER.
The biggest tragedy of Ben Reilly is how because of Marvel editorial holding back Peter at every turn, we'll never get a moment where Peter has kids that call him "Uncle Ben"
omg why isn’t this a thing 😭
I love how marvel makes stupid decision after stupid decision in pursuit of keeping characters like Spiderman marketable to audiences, and in the process completely kill the comic industry...
Why do you have to hurt me like this
@@stoopidapples1596 Know what else is crazy. Superman is a married Dad now, and DC is happy leaning into how Batman has become a foster father, with the Robins calling each other brothers and Batman calling them his sons. (Wish they did more with this relationship with Orphan though, he adopted her in an old timeline but I think that got retconned)
The competition has let it's two biggest heroes, arguable the two biggest heroes ever, evolve into middle aged family man Elder Statemen of the Superhero community. Yet We want something similiar with peter so badly, and can't get it!
I get the sentiment, but I'm also pretty sure although they are alternate.Universes mayday Parker and I think Annie Mae Parker. Both know about Ben Riley and have called him. Uncle Ben, obviously. He is dead in both of those universe, so they don't ever say it to his face. Mayday actually Turned his costume into her spider girl costume.
The most lowkey tragic thing I felt when reading Ben's stories was during the Beyond arc when he accidentally called himself "Peter" in a thought bubble. I don't know why, but that really hit hard for me.
It's the little moments that make it the most tragic
And then once he hangs up the phone with May, she realizes it's not Peter
Like damn, the start of Beyond was so promising and halfway Marvel editorial turned it into a Ben Reilly torture роrn for NO reason with everyone hating him
@@dastanovich2476I would say the Beyond run only turns into "The Ben Reilly Torture Porn Hour" at the 99.9999% mark. Because up until the last issue, there was still a compelling story being told.
Ben struggling to keep himself together after being mentally fucked with by Maxine. Peter still recovering, but needing to put an end to all this to save his loved ones. The friends and allies that Ben had made over the run coming in to help him out because they do care for him. The wacky and weird shit that Beyond was cooking up behind the scenes. It was all really good and tons of fun. Hell even the final Spider-Man vs. Spider-Man fight would have been great if Peter had just knocked Ben out, webbed him up and got him out of there to help his brother. Instead the ending, in trying to be tragic, just comes off as stupid. And it's all hijacked by another Marvel editorial mandate to keep Peter and Mary Jane apart, to really take a shit on what would other wise have been a great run of comics. At this point, Peter finding a way to save his brother would have been more unexpected than the "tragic" ending we got.
Oh well. At least Chasm is cool, in a "so bad it's fun" way
It's sad how ben is forgotten due to the awful clone arc and miles replacing him as the "potential replacement spider man".
Ben was the only good thing that came out of the clone saga (Kaine was okay too, I guess.) Never should have brought him back.
Ben Reilly should have never been killed off. They should have kept him as the lead of Sensational and Peter as the lead of Amazing and had them team up often as brothers. I genuinely LOVED their interactions towards the end, with Ben helping Pete with building the crib and the like. Pete and MJ should have had May as well, thus he would be spending less time as Spidey but all the single guy Spidey tropes would live on with Ben. Marvel literally could have pleased every fan by going this route, both the "Pete needs to be single" and the "Pete happily married and growing up" crowd. Ben and the audience were done a disservice by Marvel.
Ben and Peter are probably the best way to do two Spidermen at the same time. Peter and Miles don't really work if Peter is never going to pass down the mantle and Miles has to retread the same beats as Peter.
Man, if I had a time machine I’d have written down these ideas and placed it on the writers’ desks.
I can even see a scene in my head of Rhino or the like causing trouble, Peter apologizing for leaving MJ and May on an outing they were on (maybe some dialogue along the lines if “Ben isn’t here right now” and Peter not being able to stand by if he can just help someone), Pete trading blows, then Ben swinging in and telling Pete to go back to his family because he can handle Rhino.
Heck I could imagine writers trying to set him up with Black Cat, resetting that, and then starting years of fan discussion.
No, Peter cant have a daughter, Peter cant have a wife, Peter cant have a brother, he will be living in his aunt's house for the rest of his life.
@@hyperion3145
I feel like Miles and Peter would work more if they interacted more outside of big events.
Like maybe give them a comic run like Spider-Man/Deadpool or Spider-Man/Human Torch.
@@Jose-se9pu
Spider-NEET
Man, don't we all want a clone-bro like Ben Reilly.
But at the same time not current Ben
@dragonmega7548 As Alex said in his video... there is no current Ben if you believe
Agreed, but it'd suck for the clone
I'd rather have a twin with his own memories and personality
Well, nobody wants to be a clone-bro
The worst part of the whole thing is that in this current era of "Spider-Verse" and Miles Morales, comic book audiences are more than capable of accepting multiple characters co-existing as Spider-Man -- and yet poor Ben is STILL getting dumped on. I see absolutely no reason why Ben can't continue to be another Spider-Man and stay true to his original heritage, and yet writers insist on treating him like a joke that they can harass and abuse with no consequences. Sadly, the 1990s story was all about how Ben's life had value no matter how he was born, but Marvel comic book creators seem to have forgotten all about that.
Ben should have been the Jason Todd Red Hood of Spiderman’s group. Getting a proper second chance to be a better, more popular character with decent storytelling.
I've no problem with representation and progress etc. But the only reason they don't treat Ben Riley seriously, he's not black, woman or LGBT. Maybe he should become a terrorist for Hamas, then he'll be PC again.
@@Frustratedartist2 What the fuck are you on about
@michaeljung1662 Speak for yourself! I never liked the concept of multiple spider men as it cheapens who Peter is and makes it complicated. And while good stories can come of it like spider verse, Miles is better served by being his own spider person like Ben. And even then so, I’d say if it’s between making another cheap( and I stress this word ) mantle swap or making an original good character. I will take the latter everyday of the week. But it seems like some folks prefer co-opting and scraps. Sad.
@@Frustratedartist2… what? What even is this comment?
No matter how bad Ben had it, at least the green gobbler didn't cook his aunt into stew.
damn what a deep reference
Wait...HE WHAT!?!?
@@jacobchanza5484 Green Goober also boinked Gwen and got her pregnant before it was retconned.
Honestly, the writers are making him less devious and just... Really odd with how he gets revenge.
@@hyperion3145He and Reverse Flash must be in some sort of contest.
@@thegodofalldragons "You cooked his aunt into a stew man? That's crazy, I just went back in time to kill Barry's mom just because I can, really."
Peter and Ben are at their worst spots, Kaine just forgotten at a time where you could honestly have him in and it'd fit. Where you could easily do a Switch up of Redemption, as Kaine takes Ben's role and redeems Ben and helps him like he did for him. It's just so unfortunate that Editorial LITERALLY ENDS BENS STORY WITH HIM BEING EVIL IN THE LAST 3 TITLES HE'S BEEN IN save for Spiderverse.
Spiderverse Ben was a melodramatic parody of a character that didn't actually exist, who was part of an inter-dimensional Spider-Man death cult, so. Uh. He's not doing much better, all things considered.
@@fanb1536 I admit, the Ben Reiley joke in Spider-verse was probably one of the few gags I wasn't a fan of. Mainly because his actual personality is so much more than the "haha, edgy 90's character" trope that replacing it with the gag felt dissapointing.
@@fanb1536let be real here, other than Miles and Peter, everyone in ATSV got the short end of the stick when it come portrayals
@@onglanh5329 Absolutely. Like, forget about how they butchered the new characters like 2099 and co; they couldn't even keep straight 90% of the first film's cast 💀
And the one new character I actually enjoyed (The Spot) just dips from the plot 2/3's into the film's bloated runtime, aaaaaaaaaa this film blew so hard
@@onglanh5329 Miguel is very different from the comics, but I actually don't mind. As long as what you're doing is interesting, it can deviate from the source material. That's why I used Ben Reiley as an example of not doing it right.
If Ben has one thing going for him, it's both his suits. They're easily some of the cleanest Spider-man costumes.
That hoodie was fire.
@justinarzola4584 honestly. The light blue ripped hoodie with the dark red suit is a sweet combo
I see we are not acknowledging his other 2 ones.
(Plus chasm but I don't think that counts)
His suits are my favorite spiderman suits ever
Hey man i appreciate that 🕷️🕸️
Love Ben Reilly, the first comic I ever bought was the issue where he took over as Spider-Man. So glad to see someone put a lot of my thoughts on the character, and the current state of comics, into words.
Hi thorgi, didn't expect to see you here
I love your videos 😊
@@MarkiplierMeatMuncher8same, didn't expect to see them in the comments LOL
Ben in the 90s era (specifically his time going into becoming the Sensational Spider-Man) under JMD is some of the most riveting Spidey media to date. It was legitimately inspiring how he was a version of Peter that overcame his severe guilt complex and turned it into a innate desire to do the right thing. The fact that he was just happy to be alive and that he wanted to be better for the sake of everyone around him? In all of the Clone Saga’s shittiness, Ben’s growth from severe self-loathing to confidence genuinely felt earned.
Boy, I hope that’s not ruined in the future! Right?…
I love Kraven's Last Hunt but it hurts that it's the only Spidey work of JMD that gets heavily discussed or spotlighted. His name should be getting dropped alongside Straczynski and Stern when it comes to his contributions.
I loved that stuff. I suffered through so much of the plodding clone "saga" and got to that and was like wow this is really good Spider-Man. Then that got rug-pulled. I also liked Kaine the brutal failed clone, and years later they made him a rough & tumble Scarlet Spider, then they killed him too.
Sometimes I feel like a clone except nobody took anything from me and I’m just a loser
Why tho, is something wrong? I hope not, but if there is, you should read stoicism, 22 stoic principles on yt, and just talk about this with someone who can help
You're not a loser
Nah man, I’m the clone. You’re real, and you deserve happiness.
There was something so innocent and heartwarming about the idea of Ben taking over as Spider-Man and letting Peter be happy. There is something that is so genuinely nice about Peter and his clone considering eachother brothers. The comics status quo is the most cruel antagonist in mainstream comics, when it exists, no-one can be truly happy, since that doesn't sell.
Both Peter and Ben have had it really rough. Marvel truly is Spider-Man’s greatest villain.
While I had heard about Ben Reilly before, my first real exposure to his character was in Across the Spider Verse. And don't get me wrong, Andy Samberg plays a funny parody of overly-edgy 90s comic characters. But after seeing your video, it almost makes me wish we could have gotten some of that depth represented in the film. This was a gripping story with heartwarming ups and heartbreaking downs, and I really enjoyed your own insights into the character. Thanks for sharing!
He really deserves his own Spider-film, which obviously will never happen. As a Ben Reilly fan I was just happy to see him.
the film is 2+ hours long, if Ben was actually significant, the movie would be unfocused and less streamlined
Could you imagine how Peter is gonna explain to his daughter her Uncle Ben?
"Ye so your uncle, my brother wasn't my brother but my clone that was depressed so he changed his name to Ben.... Then after some time he died.... I miss him"
There is an issue of the Spider-Girl series where Peter actually does that.
@@EnerKaizer oh.... What's was her reaction? More of a "WTF", "i don't care" or "i (somehow) get it"?
@@heronik79 Understanding. After all, she knew her costume wasn't her fathers, so it was more like actually getting to know about an uncle she never could meet herself.
That actually happens in the Spider-Girl comics, though he explains it as Ben was aunt May’s nephew he met in college who gained spider powers from a mad scientist whose experiments he still didn’t understand.
@@br3ndan538 well none of that explanation is technically lying
Ben Reiley really was the ultimate bro. He was one of the best things to come out of the Clone Saga; and, despite Marvel throwing monkey wrenches into his life, we still never forgot our Scarlet Spider!❤🕷
The idea that ben couldve been the original Pete, can be executed very well, the fact that they were switch by the end of the gerry conway run, and realizing from then on it was ben we were following rather than pete is an idea that could be executed very well
Honestly prefer that because of how damn fascinating it is
Should have kept Peter as the clone it's really fun to think about
and everyone that loves Peter Parker would HATE it...
Hell Nah.
@@kevthepoet and rightfully so.
I started reading comics when Ben was Spider Man and he was my boy. I was really excited for the Scarlet Spider series because about halfway in it looked like the Clone Saga was finally behind him and they were going set him up as some kind of mystical Spider Man with his own thing. Didn't pan out, they shat in his mouth again, and they still have no idea what to do with the character.
It's so funny because they keep handing Ben's mainstream stuff to writers who openly don't care for the character, just writing him as 'the clone who wants to take Peter's life' something he was only in the 70s. Writers like Cantwell, Foxe or Dematties have to actively fight to have him in any small way in runs they're doing
The most infuriating part is how they give Ben some of the best spider-drip in comics only to just dunk on him every time he appears
you know what's even worse? how blatantly they try time and time again to give Bens costume to Peter, because they know his design was better.
Don't believe me? look up the costume from the recent Videogame and "superior" spider-ock, and tell me these aren't just Bens designs with the numbers filed off.
Ngl back in 2011 on novaskin i recolored a ben reilly skin for minecraft to have a white symbol and its 100 percent identical to the advanced suit. Biggest bs i ever saw
@@EnerKaizer This had been going on since the concept phases for the Raimi movies. I believe Ross' design for the Spiderman suit was pretty much a black version of Ben Reilly's Spiderman suit which they ripped for Ock.
At least Mayday Parker uses it in tribute and pays respect to Ben, but Ock using Ben's drip without even noting it is probably his worst crime. I think Kaine and Miles are even taking his designs in newer comics.
Kaine’s Big Time Suit is the best spider-drip IMO
Even the OG Scarlet Spider suit with the hoodie looks clean. It feels like in most media Ben is in, the designers decided to go off and give his suits more personality than Peter's
Mr. Lennen you have somehow found a way to release a video exactly in the middle of times where my life is getting hard. These videos are always so good, and they always help to bring me back to normality. It's a crazy coincidence, but it's happened like three times now. God bless you, man, I appreciate it.
Very well put. I'm still bitter but you put it really well. I hate how dark web acted like there weren't 7 telepaths, 47 scientists and 137 super heroes that all could have solved the whole thing in five minutes while simultaneously saving Ben from his current situation.
By the look of things, we might as well put some (teeny tiny amounts of) faith in the Dark X-Men mini, which features Ben Reilly, to improve things for him and wash off what Dark Web did.
That's personally my last shot at any X-Men/Spider-Man crossover because Uncanny Spider-Man isn't standing on thin ice anymore, it fell through the cracks and froze to death.
@@spinningtornado4543 I hope so, Steve Foxe is a big Ben Reilly fan and has on multiple occasions talked about how dumb Chasm is
@@rennythespaceguy7285 To give credit where credit is due : He seems to have more knowledge on Spider-Man lore than the X-Men one so he's the best and only shot Ben is going to get until the end of this year to bounce back as a character.
May the Editors behind Dark X-Men actually help the situation instead of worsening it : Even if Fall of X hasn't been that great so far, there's still some time left before it closes off any doors to the non X-Men characters it involved.
@@spinningtornado4543 Yeah, pretty much. I think it's funny that he seems to be one of two writers for Ben post resurrection that actually cares for the character and both of the writers who do have any sort of attachment to him were writing unrelated books before choosing to just drop him in because they could.
@@rennythespaceguy7285 Things be like that sometimes but I guess, for the past couple of years at least, this trend has been more and more frequent across different franchises.
Another example would be how Zeb Wells treats X-Men characters Vs Spider-Man ones : Zeb Wells' Hellions (2020) is considered by plenty of X-Men fans to be THE only interesting, enjoyable and good run since the X-Men reboot started and the characters in it were mostly C-list ones.
Then you have his Amazing Spider-Man run, which doesn't deserve more words than necessary, so... It is bad.
Now take Dark Web, an X-Men/Spider-Man crossover event Zeb Wells took an active part in writing, and look at which characters from their specific franchise got the shortest end of the stick by the end of it and up until now.
Clone characters struggling with identity and how they should move forward and handle it (the loss of a life and relationships that were never yours, the perception of other people towards you for something you couldn’t choose or control)… it is one of my favorite story beats of all time. Adore it to bits.
So much angst to explore
Ben being emblematic of turning something negative (something created to destroy Psychologicallly speaking) and turned into something positive (a brother figure) is actually quite nuanced. Fits the theme of Spider-man (or what the theme should be).
Fun Fact: This guys videos are the best.
Lol
Fr alex is one of my fav youtubers
Yes
This guy and comic drake
The spiderman who deserved to rise and fall
Ben Reilly really should be the mentor figure spidey of mainline spider-man. I really love Ben Reilly's easygoing energy that is still somehow engaged to everyone's lives around him. Ben is like the great uncle family man that hasn't been given its full potential yet. Yes I know Life Story is a thing, he died, doesn't count cuz I say so even if its a good story
The last section about "just pretending this stuff doesn't exist" is great. I don't think a lot of people are comfortable ignoring canon and retcons, especially for characters like Spider-Man, but so little of it matters in any way.
I wish Ben Reily had become Spider-man permanently. Having two Spider Brothers would have been awesome and allowed Peter better character development
And most importantly MayDay parker would been a real character.
I love Peter but Ben’s sheer will, determination, and selfness after constant suffering for five years and yet he’s still able to rise above it all is to me what makes him the greatest Spiderman.
Ben never physically appears in Spider-Girl from what I remember but I remember his impact on May. He's there in spirit as her Uncle Ben, in the costume she chose and her sense of responsibility, and in Kaine trying to redeem himself for what he did to him becoming the weird Uncle who helps from time to time. Rest in Peace Ben Reilly, and goodbye Peter, MJ, and Mayday Parker. I'm content with believing in a fun ending and fond memories of a Spider-family instead of an endless story where things stopped mattering.
I know you live in the UK, but as a Canadian, the amount of sleep i am sacrificing right to watch your videos is unfathomable.
Never stop making these.
I feel you, I started recording and editing this around 16 hours ago
@alexlennen, but hey of you ever have the time (and by that, i mean the ability to recollect all of your energy from making this video). i loved it if you made a video about Mary Jane. You could even talk about the miniseries *the amazing Mary Jane* where shes an actress playing in a film directed by mysterio.
or even mention Spinneret@@ravindupadmanath2802
Giving peter a brother who is also spider man is so raw, clone shenanigans aside it's just wholesome to see peter have someone who he can relate to on such a deep level.
Honestly I really appreciate your take on the whole fluid head cannon thing, cuz that's how I like to come at almost every story I experience. I'd much rather find something to love that go looking for reasons to hate something. I feel like I've gained a lot more by just saying 'it's not for me' and finding something else to watch or read or whatever.
This exactly
For people who've invested years reading and hoping to see Peter/Ben/any other comicbook character develop and make progress in his personal life, it's hard to just stop reading/having expectations/wanting to see something specific after so much investment. For me, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth if I don't get to see a character I've grown to care about be denied of any resolution or even happiness.
The classic Spidey costume is great, of course. The clean Black Spiderman look is fantastic as well, obviously. Inspired. But the Scarlet Spider costume is so fucking underrated; what a great look. Simple but with enough color to not be bland. And it actually feels realistic, like... were I the person who cosplayed, I'd cosplayed as the Scarlet Spider, because that's an actual costume you could put together.
(Also, the one that's a tweaked version of the classic costume, with the added black... I think that might be the one Ben started using when he took over? Fucking badass. Hard to tweak a classic look and make it look just as good, much less better, but I think that one did it.)
I’m my opinion the scarlet spider costume just fits Ben’s character perfectly
i missss funny old school youtubers. this video was a joy to find even as someone who doesnt know much about spiderman comics. Great work man made my night!
ben reilly is one of my favorite characters ever, both spider-man related and in general, and its so sad to see how dirty he's been done for so long now. but im glad to know there are a lot of other people out there love him to. if only marvel editorials did as well..
I wonder if Alex will talk about all the other Spidermen now. Some of their stories are really interesting and I would love a deeper dive into their personalities.
WEEZER CHRISTMAS IN AN ALEX LENNEN BEN REILLY VIDEO??? Hyperspecific dreams really do come true!
Scarlet Spider has always been my favorite Spidey. The cool costume grabbed my attention as a kid; I love that sleeveless hoody, but his good heart and willingness to sacrifice his happiness for the greater good was what made me love the guy. I would have turned evil a dozen times over, but not Ben.
Alex lennen’s videos are probably my most favorite comic book videos to watch. He just makes them so humorous but keeps the seriousness of the comic book story as he speaks.
It's almost like Marvel LITERALLY has the perfect formula to please the fans. Peter slowing down with MJ to have Mayday and Ben coming back as Spider-Man.
Unfortunately, Marvel likes writing torture prorn and character assassination too much to please the fans.
If comics have gotten as bad as y'all say they are then one of y'all should try writing a fanfic about this, marvel/Disney shouldn't be able to take it down so long as it remain none profit y'know
I’ve been on TH-cam for waaaaay more than a decade and I very rarely comment… this is the very first time I say… you deserve more subscribers… quality hook, narration and content overall
It's my 20 years birthday and I'm really happy that I found your videos, I never knew that there is someone who loves Spider-Man so much like I do. It's kinda inspiring, listening how you care about characters and story, love your videos, man.
Hey Alex, just wanted to say that I really appreciate your videos. As a non comic book reader, I really enjoy hearing your insight and retellings of these timeless stories. Keep it up!
I'm a '90s kid, I started reading Spiderman during the Clone Saga, and I really liked (again, I was 10), and not only I really liked Ben Reilly, I remember most fans loving Ben Reilly, and most of us were perfectly fine when they started presenting the idea of him taking the mantle, and Peter retiring...and then they made "twist", telling fans Peter was the clone, its what turned everyone against Ben.
And about post-OMD Spiderman, I'm just like you, I just pretend those stories just dont exist, he accepted May's death, Dr Strange made everyone forget his identity, and that was it.
Anyway, back to Ben, at this point we all know the joke about Marvel hating Peter Parker, but I think there is one character they hate more; Ben Reilly.
When I saw Spiderverse 2, where not only is he on the "villains" side, but they reduced his entire character to be a "'90s sucked" joke...poor Ben.
They weren't villains.
Also he was more a parody about the 90s being edgy.
what's wild about this is that the clone thing didn't need to be resolved. He's just a supporting character now
I really admired Ben Reilly as a kid. I used to read a bundle of 90s Spidey issues that my mom got me while lying in the hospital bed that I were confined to for much of my early life, so Ben's story really affected me. He lost literally everything, yet never gave up on his ideals and hope for a better tomorrow.
Thank you for making this.
We need more Ben Reilly awareness, he’s one of my favorite characters in the Spider-Man mythos.
Saw Ben Riley for the first time on Spider-Man the animated series from the 90s. Always thought he was neat where I got a poster of him in my room. I think he represents a part of spider man that is his best trait and it’s perseverance. Like how Batman his determination, Superman is hope, Spider-Man has the will of a normal man to grapple with it all and keep going.
Dude this man is hurting so much. He deserves a happy ending. Poor Ben.
Ben is just one of the many victims of Spider-Man’s writers not letting him grow up and have a happy ending😂
That last part really struck a chord (the headcanon stuff, not the Sainsbury's stuff. I'm not ready to admit my crimes yet). You're right: comics and serialised storytelling are perhaps the easiest forms of stories to adapt to your own whims. Heck, you can simply reorganise your shelves and bam, new storyline. I've nothing profound to add, I just really agree with your take there.
I love these kinds of commentaries. You're not just reading the comic scans aloud and obnoxiously, you know I'm going to pause and read it anyway. You use that time to add your own interpretations and commentary on it and I think that's what all of these comic videos on TH-cam should be like.
While I haven't read everything from the Clone Saga, Ben is still a very special character to me, be it his design, the simple idea of a clone of Spider-Man, something about it him always interested me and he's been my Favorite Spider-man just behind Peter himself, and it really hurts that they continue to just, reduce him to a villain.
Worst of all is them saying that he has no place in Spider-man stories, yet they keep adding more spider-people. Why not add to this pre-existing character, instead of creating more Spider-Men?!
Personally I take a step even further, I pretend that Ben remained a good guy after the Spider-Geddon event, Peter settled down, became a father, and Ben was finally able to be the Uncle that he hoped to one day be
I love the fact that the message of this video is essentially "If you don't like it, ignore it!".
“Delusion is actually good sometimes”
One of the few channels that can always pull me in with a notification. Great video keep up the good work
You thought Peter's been through some shit for the last few years or so thanks to Marvel's editorial team, Ben Reilly feels like he's the local punching bag of Spider-Man comics for literal decades.
I literally just finished Beyond and have no idea why they made Ben a villain again. This might be cathartic.
Hey Alex.
Casual glancer here.
I really enjoyed your summary of the character pre-Dead No More, and I want to say, excellent video.
I can't really judge a fan using wishful headcannon (especially when it's truer to the medium than the creators are), but I think the hope modern fans have is defined here, too.
They _do_ care about Spider-Man, even after all the ugliness, so some will still stand to argue for his future direction, even if it means being face to face with Dark Webs and the like.
This was a cool breakdown of ben’s life from the clone saga to now Alex Lennen, it’s really interesting yet sad since he can’t get happiness for out-of-universe reasons.
The scarlet spider suit is one of my fav suits in the Insomniac games. I love how vibrant the red against the the blue is. The whole suit has such a cool vibe to it.
A new Alex Lennon video is a great start to the day
"Take care of my niece Peter... tell her about her uncle Ben" STAP YOU'RE GONNA MAKE ME CRY!!! 😭😭😭😭😭
Man I've been waiting for this video. Editorial's biggest sins is the way they've handled Peter and MJ's relationship and Ben Reilly. Just imagine if we had a competent team of editors who actually cared about these characters
Ahhh I've been waiting for this... far and away my favorite Spider-Man, done dirty again and again in the comics... he never got a break, and he deserved one! Even the new spiderverse movie did him dirty 😭
As a Pacific Rim fan, delusion and headcannon has also been my preferred coping method to avoid acknowledging the existence of a specific installment of the franchise
The fact you made a video about the OG Scarlet Spider is already worth the like and subscription.
Ben Reilly has so much potential. Marvel seriously need to make better use of him.
Bruh I’ll always say that Ben Reilly is so sad. I loved his character so much and he’s been done dirty completely. He deserves a great story.
Been loving the content lately. I've been loving it so much that I'm not even going to bring him up.
You betray your one sacred goal unsubscribing
sure, this content’s good, but it would be better if it was about… him.
TRATOR
Ben Riley was always my favorite Spidey clone. He was like a brother Peter never had and even he was sad when he died.
It made me so sad to see him reduced to a "edgy grimdark 90's comic character" joke in Spiderverse..
Thank you for making vids like this, it really means a lot to us fans who don't read the comics
Wow. I usually never cared for Clone Saga, but watching your video made it actually interesting. Honestly, regarding considering what is Canon and what is not, to me Spidey stories as just great to the end of Brand New Day era. When Slott started doing the whole Big Time, setting the stage for Superior Spiderman, that is where Spider-Man went downhill.
Alex I just want to say that I love your work and it really is funny and well done. Lots of your videos have made me cry. I love the way you write and my favorite video is the wall one. Thanks for being so positive and funny. Looking forward for years of new videos.
This is a truly brilliant analysis
Great video, i could feel how personal your love for this character is.
I totally understand why spider verse refused to take him seriously and just made him a complete joke
I love Alex’a video essays nice vid Alex 👍🏻
Phenomenal as always, your work never disappoints. Have you ever considered doing more videos on characters with shorter, maybe less well-known histories?
Alex the goat back at it again with another banger
Your comment is like the tagline for a beastiality video
Ben Reilly's life is just composed of shameful metaphors
Did you just make a reference to a song used in a tribute to Ben? Nice.
@@LoganCMikulas Ayyy
@@LoganCMikulas Wait, song?
@@LoganCMikulasgot a link?
Ben Riley scarlet Spider deserved justice at least in my opinion.
I definitely agree with your take-away at the end =) I started reading a lot of classic Spider-Man comics recently - partly because of your videos Alex. I'd always figured it wasn't worth it, because the end destination was never going to be satisfying. But with Spider-Girl as a follow-up, I can totally get the fairly cohesive story from 1962 through around 2006-2010. Peter's with MJ, their daughter's a hero, and Ben Reilly's legacy is intact and an inspiration to his niece.
I needed this.
Ben Reilly is my goat dude, really glad to see a video on him. And he definitely deserves more cuz his potential is so wasted rn.
As insane as the idea of denial and cope sounds when reading comics; deciding what story happened and what didn’t, it’s very appealing. So much so that DC basically canonised the idea with the omniverse.
The ultimate admission of not giving a shit about maintaining the characters they legally own, and instead letting you, the customer be your own curator of the story. It was this point, and others in the recent Spider-man run that kinda jaded me on comics from the big 2.
As much as I wish I could cope my way through stories, that is antithetical to good writing. Not to mention, new stories often rely on previous ones that you can’t cope your way around. It certainly doesn’t help stories that are just garbage from the get go and internally contradict their own lore.
A lot of writers and people in general see canon as this albatross you have to work within the confines of to write your story, but building upon canon also allows you to access some of the best and most cathartic payoffs. It’s why the best writers are the ones that clearly know their stuff.
Ben Reilly from the moment i saw him in the 90s series became my all time favorite version of Spider-Man and its sad that his only win since the 90s is his solo run back in 2022 and yet people ended up talking about Dark Web over J.M's amazing story on him as the Sensational Spider-Man again. We want Ben to be a hero again yet fans would rather talk about his Chasm arc just because it makes them mad rather than celebrate how amazing his run as Sensational Spider-Man was.
Loved Scarlet Spider in the 90s, but plot-twist: They both are clones. (I mean all clones disintegrated on death, and they found a legit dead skeletal Peter Parker during the the whole shenanigans). Would have loved for the clone saga to end a few years earlier, rather than being dragged out to long, with Ben emerging alive and having adventures apart from clone-related stuff.
I think about that skeleton a lot. At the time the idea was that was another clone and only imperfect Clone disintegrated into dust upon death, but when they Killed Ben they wanted it to be undeniable he was the clone so he disintegrated despite it being made apparent repeatedly that Ben was a perfect clone. So yes, because no writer has ever fixed this as of the current canon the real Peter died years ago and the Peter and Ben we know now are both clones.
The tell her about her Uncle Ben line was so cold tho
The first time i was introduced to Ben was during the last few epsiodes of the 90s Spiderman cartoon. I loved his design and his quick introduction as a character. Ever since then the character has always been a favorite of mine, a man who was a clone and when the world gave him nothing he pushed back and tried to save it anyways
Across the spider verse interpretation was funny, but i couldnt help but be disappointed in how they made him just a joke.
I genuinely love Ben Reilly, it was amazing and he’s worthy of being appreciated and given a right ending. A deserving ending, not being abused and dunked on.
To be fair, every version of Spider-Man ends up getting screwed over by the writers; so, they *all* deserve better.
19:05 Everyone say Thank You Dematteis.
How are we as a Spider society in 2023 still underappreciating this man's work.
Spider-Editorial really needs a much needed new blood, one that is not fixated in making it a misery fest
Peter, MJ, Mayday, Ben, everyone deserves better
I feel like I’ve been waiting for this video my whole life, and it didn’t disappoint!
Same, I grew up reading 90s clone saga and seeing it all undone and the state of things now.... nice to know I'm not alone with the feelings of what could have been