I LOVE how Hobie repeatedly tries to physically block Miles from meeting Miguel. Like, not making the decision for him but showing how he feels about the situation.
and simultaneously giving in to let miles pass without any resistance because hobie is committed to independence and free choice, even if he disagrees with the particular decision
@@GreysonParker fr he's like 'i believe in freedom and that also means the freedom to make stupid ass decisions' XD Miles and Gwen are SO lucky to have Hobie as a friend to watch out for them and help them out
It is not only that he didn't want Miles to meet Miguel. it not merely that he let Miles pass without resistance because he is committed to independence. By putting up actual barriers that took no effort for Miles to break through, he psychologically primed Miles for the concept of breaking through barriers, so that he would be more able to do so when an actual barrier gets in his way. That is also why he told Miles the thing about using his palm, not just his fingers. His entire presence there was about teaching Miles to defy barriers.
I think my favorite thing about Hobie is that he doesn't talk down to Miles. Gwen and Peter B. mean well, but they(mostly Gwen) try to let him down easy by sugarcoating things or omitting details. Miguel never even gives Miles a chance and tries to decide what right and wrong should be for him. By contrast, Hobie simply gives Miles the puzzle pieces and stands off to the side, keeping an eye on the situation but trsuting he'll put them together when the time is right.
this!!! despite being set up to make miles feel inferior and immature, hobie is the one who points miles towards self-agency, making his own rules and choices. hobie gives miles so much respect and trust. gwen and peter b were the ones doing most of the making him feel inferior and immature, despite them meaning well.
@@aiiiia9971 agreed. And I’m glad he ain’t slandering the other characters for not outright trying to help Miles cuz he understands that not everybody is open and rebellious as Hobie. He’s just another breed of badass
Yes! Hobie empowers Miles to make his own informed choices instead of just trying to protect him. Hobie knows he won't always be there and Miles needs to understand what's going on and what his abilities are so that he can protect himself. It's a fine balancing act, and Hobie does it very well! 💕✨
Looking back, when Hobie takes off his mask and Miles says "How are you even cooler under your mask?" and Hobie replys "I was this cool the whole time", it's a funny line but also speaks the differences in how Hobie and Miles view themselves in regards to the Spiderman persona. Miles still idolizes what being Spiderman means and is trying to live up to that standard. He feels more confident and cool as Spiderman than he does as Miles. To Hobie, there is no split or divide between who Hobie is and who Spiderman is; they are both forces for the people. He's fully embraced fighting for a better world with and without the mask. He's just that cool the whole time.
Hobbie is also a punk with very little attachment. It's easy to be that cool and detached in your secret identity when you don't really have anything to lose from it.
This video is trying to make something out of nothing just for views. Very desperate if you ask me. I bet my life he's just the same and normal in the sequel
A thing that I only noticed when "rewatching the movie" through this video is that Hobie already knew about Miguel's laser cages when he gave Miles the "palms, not fingertips" pointer. He gives Miles what will go on to be a literally life-saving bit of advice in such an ego-bruising way that he can be certain that Miles will remember it when it matters (and remains at Miles' side as a reminder of his advice until the moment it becomes relevant) before IMMEDIATELY dipping once he knows Miles can handle Miguel.
Also, when miles is in the cage, Hobie shows him his palms. We understand he's referencing what he'd told miles before, but on my third viewing of the movie I realised that he's standing in front of the other spidermen. From their perspective, it looks like Hobie is trying to calm down miles. But he's deceiving them still.
The funniest part about Hobie is you can honestly take it either way. Was it just a random quip? Did he figure out how to break barriers like that because of Spider Societies' laser cages? Did he for see Miles breaking out a cage in the same way? The guy is so free-flowing it could honestly be all yes, it could be all no, it could even be a, excuse my Drake, *combination*
@@FrostDzNz I think Hobie has a variation of the electric power that he used to break through the collider barrier, so knew it could be used against Miguel's ones if needed
I love that all of Hobie’s lines can be taken a different way depending on how you perceive him! On first watch when you’re defensive against him his line that’s goes like “Bet you have a nice set up at home, nice parents?” kinda just seems like him trying to get a rise out of Miles and maybe bully him for being a momma’s boy. On second watch, where you now know Hobie’s true intentions of helping Miles and taking down the Spider Society, that line reads so different and so much more complex! Hobie is asking Miles if he has a good home to go back to. Gwen has been crashing at Hobie’s dimension not cuz he’s cool but because she doesn’t have a safe home to go back to and Hobie has offered her one. He was prepared to offer that same help to Miles. A lot of Hobie’s actions on second watch just drive home how much he’s really a caring guy, fighting against the establishment for his fellow person.
I also interpreted that line as Hobie knowing that Miles’s dad is a police officer and would die in a canon event. Trying to get him to think about how important his family is to him and not write them off in favor of joining the Spider-Society
And I think there's even a third layer. He's gotta know how Gwen feels about Miles. He's trying to make sure she'll be safe. If she visits, stays, or even moves in with Miles, he wants to know that she'll have a good place to stay.
Knowing from the Comics that Hobie grew up in the streets gives this even more dimension. A good home isn’t something he sees as a given. Wich in my mind is a huge part of why he took Gwen in. He knows how it feels to have no place to go. And the idea that he was already planing to take Miles in as well is awesome. I really love how much more there is to this character, the more often you watch this movie. The first time most of us are a little wary of him, the second time he was something to look forward to.
What I love most about Hobie, is that even though he’s disappointed with Gwen for being so close to the spider society, he doesn’t just go “you’re on your own”. Dude cares about Gwen, and stays around her to lessen the influence Miguel and the other spiders have on her. He was truly looking out for his drummer. The biggest example of this, is that he knew Miles coming to the HQ was a sign that the whole lid was about to be blown off. Their treatment of Miles was going to force Gwen to choose between him or the spider society. So, Hobie knowing who Gwen was as a drummer, knows that Gwen is in fact in love with the boy from 1610. If his intuition is right, she would choose him, and get sent home by Miguel. Hobie is like the protective older brother that knows you are hanging out with the wrong crowd and eventually it will all come crashing down. So, Hobie crafts a backup plan for his friend. In essence, he ensures that when everything falls apart for Gwen she would end up on the right path. So he had the watch prepared for her and set for E-1610. Miles. So she could repair their relationship. He is the example of a steadfast friend that disagrees with your life choices, respects your agency, but does what they can to lessen the negative influences on you. Then when you’re in need of a friend, they answer the call to lift you up. Wonderful messaging from the writing team.
You can also argue with how perceptive Hobie is, he already knows Gwen didn't tell Miles the important details since Miles agreed to go along. What he's doing isn't just confirming that detail, he's giving Gwen a chance to tell Miles the truth herself before Miles walks into the Spider's Web. When she doesn't, he prepares to help Miles and build a safety net for Gwen when she figures out what she thinks is right.
these are a very clever reference to the Fanzine community that published pamphlet of art in diverse forms with collage, naive painting and cutted shape out of magazine talking about a lot of various subject, from love to politics!
I love the subtle hint to Hobie's character that comes off when the mask comes off. He asks Gwen how much she's told him about this place. She makes it clear that she hasn't told him much; he's not /supposed/ to know about this. So, what does Hobie immediately do? He fills the gaps in Miles's knowledge. Miles thinks this is a Spider-Man utopia, and Hobie tells him to look more critically, planting the seeds of ideas Miles shouldn't have. When he keeps doing this and is told, "You're not helping," he replies, "Good," a close-up on his unmasked face. It's SUCH good, efficient characterization.
I never realized that, He realized Gwen wasn't going to tell him or try to warn him so he figured he'd be the one to do it. Brilliant. Way to catch that!
And I also love how when he introduces himself he doesn't reveal his secret identity, only to unmask himself later because he doesn't believe in consistency
I also love how Hobie also Visually refuses to conform. Each world each spidy-person comes from has a unique artistic flare. But in the spider society, everyone kinda blends in. Even Gwen, who's soft painter's palette style doesn't really shift and change as it does when she's home. But Hobie? Reguardless where he is, he's a walking collage. Even in the same scene, his entire colour palette can just shift and change. It's significant.
@@thebadnoob5398 Which is funny, because if you take it like that, it contradicts itself at the same time! Yes, Hobie is making everything else inconsistent, but HE stays consistent the whole way through.
When hobie says ‘I don’t believe in consistency.’ I think he means he’s perfectly okay with using deception as you are free to lie if you want or do contradicting actions.
And it’s a reference/homage/tongue-in-cheek allusion to the very same line from The Lego Movie*, which was ALSO written by Phil Lord and Chris Miller (*Uttered by Princess Unikitty when they first enter Cloud Cuckoo Land)
Let's also not forget the obvious: He doesn't believe "The Cannon" necessarily should be cannon. What is the most enforced consistency in the story? It's also the most painful personal event for most of them. The backstory tie in. He has every reason to not believe in that, it's an unnecessary human toll to teach a lesson that doesn't have to come out of blood like that. There are other ways to learn responisbility.
It's also worth noting that all those things you point out about Hobie? Those are what make *Spider-Man*. He's funny, he's friendly, he *Cares*. Spider-Man never stands by and does nothing, even if he knows he'd get hurt. Miguel? Miguel isn't funny. He isn't friendly. He doesn't care about people the way Spider-Man should. And not only does he absolutely stand by while someone gets hurt, he encourages other Spider-people to do so too. Miguel is as much a Spider-Man as Doc Oc was. He's got the powers, he's got the suit, but he hasn't got the heart. Hobie is *All* heart. And he wields it like a weapon. Because Fascists don't want you to care.
I love the little nods to this throughout the movie too, like Miles going "claws? Are you even a spider-man??" cause he's not. He's not any of the things that make a spider-man. Threatening and mirthless, domineering and cold.. pretty much everything spider-man isn't. The claws are just a physical manifestation of that discrepancy.
I completely agree. Hobie is Spiderman in their purest form. Also, the backstory of Miguel is another huge contrast to Hobie's, at least from the comics. He is a geneticist working for a corrupt research company, and his personality is cold and scientific initially.
Imagine yourself going to another dimension only to see it implode in front of you, not only earth, but the entire UNIVERSE, all thanos, mars, every single atom just because you wanted a family, it's not about destroying families on earth, but on an infinite scale. If that does not mess you up I don't know what will... then you, by pure guilt, decides to fix *the entire multiverse* that, mind I remind you, it's *infinite* . Remember, at the start of the movie after Gwen confronts his father she says "I don't know how to fix this" and Miguel replies "Welcome to the club", he does not know ether, he's just trying to keep it all together, every day, no vacation, forever... yeah... I'm not saying he's right per se but... how would YOU fix it? Because I also have no clue withtout a new plot point
My favorite part of this movie is that prior to Hobie showing up, Miles is fully prepared to be jealous because he thinks there's some kind of love triangle going on. But when Hobie shows up, it takes almost no time for Miles to "get it". He understands why everyone's talking about this guy, and can't help but be enamored as well. He no longer sees Hobie as a threat, but as the sort of person he wants to become. And Hobie wastes no time falling into that big brother role himself.
‘The person he wants to become’ where’d you get that idea? Your ass? He may admire Hobie, but he said it himself, he wants to have his story unfold HIS way.
The movie doesn't just throw Miles for a loop, they throw the audience for a loop! As soon as Gwen mentions Hobie, I could feel all my hopes shrivel. I thought "Oh joy, another love triangle. Can't wait..." and sure enough, Hobie shows up and proves to be way more confident than Miles. And just like Miles, I was so overjoyed to find out that not only was Hobie _NOT_ fulfilling the stereotypical role of "love triangle competition for protagonist," but that he was a much deeper character who (rather than competing or being jealous of Miles) COMPLETELY supported and gassed up Miles. I was absolutely delights, even kicking myself for doubting the writers.
I think one of the best parts is how Hobie calls Peter's daughter a anarchist cause depending on which canon Peter B is part of, his little girl is technically not supposed to exist. But she DOES due to Peter B meeting Miles.
@@mannythegrandfather2291By Miguel’s horseshit logic he should be screaming in Mayday’s face saying “YOU WERE NEVER SUPPOSED TO BORN! YOUR DAD WAS NEVER SUPPOSED BE WITH YOUR MOM!! HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DIE ALONE!”
I never heard of a canon event where something isn't allowed to happen. Remember, canon events in the movie are being defined as events Spider-Man has to go through where possible, such as losing a Captain of the police force that is close to the Spider-Man in question. This is why Miles himself is fine: while he wasn't meant to exist, that isn't a break of the canon. It is that Miles becoming Spider-Man pushes him into the canon of Spider-Man, such as losing a Captain close to him, which would be Miles's father. Not every Spider-Man gets together with Mary Jane, not every one gets divorced. So Peter B Parker getting back together with Mary Jane and even having a kid has no relation to canon events. Hell, Peter B Parker might even be out of canon events himself due to his age and length as Spider-Man. By that, I mean that he has already experienced every applicable canon event already.
@@justinalicea1590Where you get it wrong is that the mary jane for every spiderman is supposed to meet a terrible fate which Spider Jane has exained herself explaini g that the only difference is that because *she* is spider man she and peter switched roles but it remains the same that your "mary jane" is supposed to meet a bad fate and if it does somehow happen something happens to spider man instead with Miguel's other self that he took the place of. Of course theres tiny differences between each spiderman but every main role and event stays the same structure wise each one has their version of the Mary Jane character, everg one has their own chief that dies and every one had a spider (anime girl spider is a weird case but I suppose technicaly every spiderman is part spider so her just actually being an assistant to her spider and sort of pseudo sharing the spiderman role technically works?) that allows them to become spiderman in some way.
God you talking about Hobie's deception is also such a great example of how being deceptive shouldn't just be a trait for villainous characters. I wish more modern works took advantage of all the ways deception can be shown and used in stories, and hopefully Hobie inspires other writers to see deception in a new light
@@icetweiz Awesome! I just mean in terms of modern works, especially books, there's a tendency to make characters overtly honest, and deception tends to be reserved to dark protagonist moments or to villains when good people are dishonest about themselves all the time.
@@MIR-bu1ft Oh well, yeah, I think you should! I wasn't expecting to do Ghost Trick propaganda today, but I strongly recommend the game. *It was a DS game that recently got a remaster on pretty much all consoles and PC *It was made by the Ace Attorney guys *If you do play it please avoid any possible spoilers. Don't even look up stuff about the game on google if possible
The first well written anarchist character I’ve seen in a Hollywood movie. I’m really glad people who don’t know much about the ideology can appreciate him as a character too.
It was so exciting to see!! I was kind of prepared to settle for the surface-level/possibly played-for-comedy stuff they initially presented him with, but the result was more nuanced and genuine than I had thought possible!
I just realized the the writers are fucking brilliant. You said the line about Hobie 'being mischievous' and I realized that putting people off-kilter with banter is one of Spider-Man's MAIN TACTICS. And that's EXACTLY what Hobie is doing, only he's applied the combat technique to CLASS WARFARE, acting a fool so the hierarchy of spider-persons can't gauge his power or guess his next move. Absolutely fantastic!
Exactly! One thing they emphasize in the film is that humor is just a part of what Spiderman is. You can't be Spiderman without being funny. They even play around with the fact that Miguel is a hard-ass; he cracks a few jokes here and there, but he's actively trying not to be funny; even dumbo is still, at his core, a jokester. Hobie is just the opposite extreme of Miguel. If Miguel thinks nothing should be a joke, Hobie thinks everything is already a joke; if Miguel is trying to take things seriously, Hobie actively wants to undermine it for being too serious. For Hobie, the world is humor, and he's just the conduit.
What I love about this movie is how every spider person checks every box of what it means to be Spider-Man. It shows that you can write original characters while being true to the mantle. The exception is Miguel, but this is the case because he’s not really Spider-Man by nature, but an extremely complex man trying to live up to the legacy of the greatest hero in his dimension.
@@anythingyoucando1546the hot mess of dog shite that is the Loki series couldn't possibly in a million years be a product of the same writers of the Spiderverse movies.
It was one of the largest strengths of the first one and it’s baffling that they were able to do it AGAIN. This crew knows what the fuck they’re doing and I am here for it. Also, great analysis by schnee as per usual.
What's even more amazing is that they stuffed so much stuff in and somehow made it feel like a 90 minute movie. It definitely does not feel 140 minutes long.
I think it's incredible seeing not only how Hobie's existence has such a massive impact on the plot, but even Hobie's color palette shows when Miles is or isn't heading in the right direction. Look at 14:49, when Hobie sees that Miles thought for himself, Hobie is all lit up with color, but as soon as Miles gets hyped to join the society again, Hobie immediately fades to black and white. Genius
"Hobie, you're not helping" is such a telling line that shows how Spider-society views Hobie. Jessica and Miguel talk down to Hobie constantly and often just dismiss him completely. They do this so often that it doesn't even _occur_ to Jessica that he's _choosing_ to support Miles instead of Miguel. She's so used to seeing him as a goofball that she doesn't even realize that he's directly undermining the whole regime.
Something I'd like to add is just how much he's protecting Miles from the start. His initial line advising Miles on how to use better his powers might seem like he's belittling him in Miles' eyes, but its him genuinely helping. Also, when he says 'I don't follow rules, neither does he', Hobbie KNOWS the spider society isn't gonna accept Miles and is trying to protect him from it. And this shows more when they're talking before meeting Miguel. He questions why Miles is so bent on joining the spider society, getting the answer that Miles just wants a watch to visit his friends, that he only wants a sense of community. Hobbie understands that and, once again, trying to protect Miles from a place that will never treat him like an equal, he tells him to do his own watch, all the while crafting one of his own, straight up telling Miles that he shouldn't be joining a war he doesn't even understand for something he could find other ways of achieving. And even further, during this conversation, he asks about Miles' home situation, about his universe's condition and other things relating to his personal everyday well-being. It sounds like he's being sarcastic/making fun of him to Miles, but its just Hobbie checking to see how safe Miles is and if he's in a situation like Gwen's and if he'll need a place to stay or someone to look out for him and help him.
yeah, the moment he asked about miles parents my heart sank because I thought "damn he probably lost one or both, maybe he didn't even had a uncle ben to fall on" i interpreted it as genuine concern from the start and it made a bit mad at miles for being so grumpy
when Hobie put his legs in front of miles, i thought that was him trying to get him to slow down, and physically not rush into the room to meet Miguel, and join up blindly. Knowing his whole arc in the movie, i feel like his membership in the Spiders Society was initially a "better get to know my enemy from the inside" kinda choice. He stays to steal bits for a watch, and he WANTS to meet Miles and start the revolution. When he first comes in, he asks Gwen right away if 'hes the one from 1610'. Besides indicating that Gwen might talk about him a lot, i think it shows more that he was WAITING for Miles, hes excited to meet the 'Anomaly' that miguel hates so much, and who's existence supposedly goes against the rules/plan of the universe. (If it was just Gwen based, i think he'd use Miles' actual name like she does, not the earth number. That is a Miguel thing, "that little nerd from earth 19999.")
I just realized, yeah, he's not just asking "this the boy from 1610", he's saying it in silent air quotes, "the boy from 1610". That sums up how little Miguel thinks of Miles, he's not Spider "man", he's just a "boy". A kid.
@@pn2294 Disagree, but I do think that he didn't go in with an intent to scope them out-- more that the second he got in the bad vibes hit him and he realized the danger. I don't know Spider Punk's abilities, but I was under the impression that spidey sense was pretty universal, right? Hobie's spidey sense probably went off like crazy.
The thing about putting his legs up like that, is that he's signalling to miles not to go, he's hoping miles will stop walking and have a chat with him, but when Miles pushes him aside he lets him. Because he trusts Miles to make his own decisions, and do what is right. Even while guiding him and hoping he realises sooner.
Something that I would like to point out. Hobie Brown in the original 616 universe is also the original Prowler. Who was actually more of a hero than a villain. Which also makes his relationship with Miles a lot more interesting. In a way Hobie is a version of Uncle Aaron that became a Spiderman instead of the Prowler.
Another thing to note is that Hobie is wearing blue shoelaces. This is obscure, but in punk circles, blue shoelaces can be used to symbolize that the wearer has killed a cop. Knowing this, the surface meaning is evident. But then we get to the part where Miles is being told about canon events, and how every Spider-man experiences the loss of a police captain. Miles looks at Hobie, who replies "Yeah. What of it?" with a sad voice. This information adds new context to the laces. Did he really murder a police officer? Or does he just feel responsible for the death of a police captain and regret it?
gonna be honest that unless they span it in like a VERY specific way i think that the idea of hobie “blaming himself for the death of the police captain he knew” is like. really shallow and like lowkey an insult to anarchism. i think it’s much more interesting if hobie just straight up killed them - maybe they were someone he once cared for who eventually became more and more corrupt after becoming an officer
@@catboymiles7224 Anarchists are often betrayed as loose canons, but true to philosphy anarchists, like Hoby is presented as, are not lawless selfish entitled chaos. Anarchy only means, no structured leadership, it does not mean lawlessness. Even if he is an Anarchist, that dead cop might have been close to him as being the one cop on the force who's not dirty, in a city full of bent coppers, and he got him killed or failed to safe him.
@@StarlasAiko there is nothing in my comment that says anything about "lawless selfish entitled chaos"?? being fundamentally opposed to the profession of policing is not that at all
I think another aspect of Hobie referring to Gwen as his “drummer” is because she’s the backbone of his actual plan for revolution, just like how the drums are the backbone of a song. Gwen getting the watch is the base starting point of the revolution just like how the life of a song revolves around the percussion.
Also from a personality perspective she is much more of a stable leader for a revolution of spidey people than Hobie *could* be due to his delibrately disarming nature while in the Spider Society.
@@twigtwigtwig7youre right but so wrong. The drummer sets the timing. The bass line guides the melodies and rhythm as you said. That makes the drummer the “lead” and the baseline the moderation aka the position i think Peter B takes as the “adult.” Hobie himself literally takes the lead but not as a leader. A lead guitarist isnt always the main factor in a band but is often the center of attention due to their actions and role
The hidden face during the Hobie introduction scene where he says "You think I'm going to show you my secret identity? Come off it" is a very good foreshadowing that we are not seeing under the mask yet, that the assumptions we are making about him aren't who he is. When he enters spider society and takes his mask off is when we get most of the True Hobie lines. And his "I was always this cool" line just proves that he knows how to mask his true self and that the mask is superficial. If you want to see under the mask you have to be trusted. You have to be ready to see the true self under the mask before you're allowed to see under the mask. To see that people are cooler under who they present themselves as.
Not just that, either. When he takes his mask off, it's supposed to send a subconscious signal to us like, "Wait, if his face isn't what he's hiding, then what is it?"
Something interesting I noticed is that Hobie even says, “What, you think I’m gonna show you my secret identity,” in the first place at all. He literally introduces himself as Hobie, Hobie Brown. The point he cuts himself off with the ‘secret identity’ bit is right when he starts to explain his story about *why* he is spider-man. His ‘secret’ is *why,* *why* he is spider-man, and *why* he is a part of the society.
Seemed to me like Hobie was being genuine whenever he was drawn in black and white, and when filled with colour he was playing his own caricature. A subtle but clear distinction the animators included.
And don't forget that Hobbie said the 4 most powerful words in the whole movie. When Miles starting showing anger when everyone was closing in on him, Hobbie said "There you go." Then Jessica Drew said "Hobbie your not helping" and Hobbie said "good". Sends chills down my spine every time I see it.
@@vicious592it's the build up. When everyone is against Miles trying to contain the problem, Hobie is for independence believing the problem should be released and free.
@@vicious592 The Spider-Society and Miguel were trying to have Miles conform to the canon events stuff and are trying to shut him down from doing anything. When Peter B. calls him "Kid" Miles says "Stop calling me that" and Hobie casually says "There you go." Jess says that Hobie isn't helping to which he responds with a simple "Good" because that was suppose to be his point. He's not trying to help the Spider-Society at all.
My favorite moment was Hobie foreshadowing miles actions in Miguel’s universe, saying “I don’t follow orders, neither does he” both warning miles, and seeing that potential in him!
He’s really telling miles in that moment, don’t listen to them and follow their orders, BUT it’s interpreted as that shallow aesthetic. And he’s also recognizing miles potential to be anti-authoritarian like him, because of how he saved officer Singh.
@@krzlcveThe whole convo from when Miles first enters to getting to Miguel is Hobbie trying to get Miles to listen and think about the situation but Miles is too focused on just meeting his friends again. When Miles figures out the situation he actually listens to Hobbie when he tells him to use the palm
Hobie was a much needed breath of fresh air. From my experience, anarchist characters are frequently portrayed as being either useless contrarians, hypocrites, or outright villains, usually the result of moderate-leaning writers too scared that their audience might start to question the status quo or make their protagonists look bad for enforcing it
So by humanizing him and giving him more subtle but no less powerful ways to portray his message without being a dark caricature, they made one of the best characters ever?
@simoncoweII You wear your nickname and pfp well. Perfect incarnation of the smug douchebag who thinks himself so much higher than others, when in reality he's much dumber than he thinks. Stay in your bubble for now, reality will catch up to you. It always does at one point, for everyone. For now, as a matter of fact, every revolutionnary leader has only brought down one form of fascism to install another that's much worst. It's just how it is. Anarchy no matter which one you think of, has always been, is, and always will be, a terrible way for people to evolve in, that only brings the worst misery in the end. For someone who pretends having "a meaningful understanding of the political school of anarchism", you should know better, but it doesn't seem like it.
Problem with anarchists is they don't "stand" for anything, shit they'd rebel a state even IF the state took care of the population, cause "no-authoritah!" Can't run a ship without authority. Can't run the world without it.
@simoncoweII Personally, and this is coming from someone who is usually decisively anti-anarchy, I feel Hobie is so great because he is an actual revolutionary. Someone who sits in that sweet spot between those that abuse the revolution to gain power for themselves, the Napoleons of the revolution, and those that blindly wreck society without eye for an alternative, just because they can. Hobie sees the problems with the system and rebels against it, but not without thought. In that sense he is kinda like George Washington; loyal to the rebellion but pragmatic enough to see that you cannot break the system without some semblance of order, new or stolen from the old system, on your part. And by his friendships, him building those watches and the techniques he teaches for breaking those barriers, as well as biding his time until the right moment, it shows he really cares about society in a strange way, because it has people inside it that he loves, and that in order to save those people, they need guidance yet freedom. That is something that most actual anarchists seem to miss, in my opinion, because as the video mentioned, most people pulled into extreme ideologies (of which anarchism is one) are those who don't see brightness in the path ahead due to not having the backings of people around them or of society to trust it will be okay, so they end up with those that feel the same and propose radical ideas. It is easy to rebel, but not easy to revolt, and Hobie knows this. And from what I know about him, if a revolution would succeed, he would be using any authority he gains from it only to set up a better system, to then step away and enjoy his freedom. In fact, I believe he does exactly that by making Gwen and Miles the characters at the head of the resistance. He's anti-establishment not because he wants to see society radically changed into his version of lawlessness, but because he wants to preserve it from the authoritarian hand of Miguel and co. who are, in his eyes, suffocating it, and to help his friends who are in fact being suffocated by this very society, even if they aren't fully aware of that just yet.
Good stuff!! You mention how “loud” Hobie’s outfit is, which makes me recall a scene where Miguel is speaking and trying to ignore Hobie but is irritated when he can’t help but get distracted. So you see Hobie’s punk aesthetic successfully do just what it’s intended to do: challenge authority, disrupt the status quo, clog up the machinery of indoctrination
Dude I studied IR and diplomacy and the moment this man came into the screen I was FLOORED mate. The political theory, the planned toppling of the balance of power, him being the antithesis of the current power figures, the way he empowers the different communities his friends belong to in the ways they need (tropicalization), the importance of art to influence and free individuals while also building community? Least to say I exited the theatre completely fucking in love with this man. Bet his ideal date is to raid the British Museum and, honestly? Hot af
Same, I smiled the moment I realised I wasn't watching another worthless liberal pretending to be a radical. This was an anarchist working toward building a revolution.
Honestly hobie didn't strike me as "I'm hiding my personality to be all secretive" but more "hey! I'm a cool guy with a fun sense of humor and legitimate goals and they're both an integral part of me and my personality because I am an almost perfect simulation of a human being with layers and complications". You can crack jokes one minute and try and take down an organization the next
I feel like he does play it up intentionally, not really with Miles or Gwen or his friends, but within the Spider Society, definitely. Hobie's got the classic spiderman intelligence and he comes off as self-aware of how people percieve him which allowed him to get away unnoticed for months despite stealing their tech
Three things! 1: not only is gwen wearing her pointe shoes while in her spider costume, in the clip included to point them out, she specifically takes a second to put her feet in third position! She's standing like a dancer even while she's just chilling, talking to Peter B and Miles. Iconic. 2. as someone raised by original 1970/80s punks (specifically DC punks), I was sort of worried when watching that Hobie would be a bad representation of punkness that focuses solely on the aesthetic with 0 ideology but Hobie is not at all that and is in fact a really good representation of how and WHY punks use their aesthetic. It's not just to look cool (tho that's totally a part of it) but a big part of punk ideals is that just because something looks nice and harmless doesn't mean it IS nice and harmless and often the seemingly "nicest" things (suburbs, clean suits, preppy clothes, trimmed lawns, clean streets, etc) cover up, support, and exist because of some of the most harmful parts of our society. Punks dress like that because it says "I can be a good person without following your rules. In fact, I can be a better person than you by purposefully breaking the rules of a corrupt system--even the minor rules about what people find visually appealing." Honestly amazing and I love it so much 3. I think the one thing that makes Miles the most insecure about Hobie is that Gwen has been staying at his home for a while--he mentions her leaving a jumper and toothpaste and stealing his shoes, which all could be read as evidence that they're a couple. But in reality, Hobie is doing something both incredibly kind and incredibly punk which is sharing your home with a homeless/runaway friend totally informally and without judgement. the most insecurity and panic-inducing aspect of phase 1 superficial Hobie is also the most true-Hobie thing he does: caring for a friend in need with no rules or expectations.
I just want to say that your explanation of dressing punk makes SO MUCH SENSE! Younger generations like myself grew up where fashion choices and aesthetics no longer reflect social and political ideologies as much as it was mere personal preference. Reference to video essays I've recently watch, subcultures are dying and it makes me wonder how much more impactful it is if the sheer effort of dressing can convey your stance. Although of course, noncomformity can be conveyed in other more powerful means beyond appearance.
OH MY GOD YESSSSS thank you for bringing attention to this - all the points, all the observations pt. 2 - agreed, honestly amazing and love it so much pt. 3 - exactly
1. Nice 2. That's a romanticization of the punk subculture. They were antisocial rebels and anarchists (anarchist = 80iq). People suddenly stop being punks one day when they take an honest look in the mirror 3 - watch the whole movie again. They ARE a couple
Damn, that's actually kinda deep. While Gwen says "We were supposed to be the good guys" showing that being a good guy is about your actions (Miguel's actions clearly being framed as bad during the whole chase with his aggression towards Miles), Miguel saying "We are. We are the good guys" while the whole room is silent before and after shows he's calling himself a hero when he clearly is not being one and everyone starts to feel it. He has the words but not the actions of a hero. He keeps saying with a calm and gentle face how beautiful the web of life and destiny is, how noble is their goal, how great they are for "protecting the canon" and all that (the words of a hero, the self-mythologizing), but when he's actually saying stuff straight out of his heart, in the scenes where he's angry at MIles, he keeps saying stuff along the lines of "*I* am doing all the work here, *I* am doing the right thing all by myself" (the narcissistic part). Finally, it's pretty obvious he believes himself as the rightful leader of the Spider-Society who everyone has to listen to because he was the first one to make a functioning dimensional-travelling watch, which becomes an instrument of power (the autrocrat part). Our introduction to Miguel shows him as a kind of stressed, grumpy, edgy Spider-Man, with just some foreshadow for him not being a "true" Spider-Man (like wearing a cape and Gwen herself failing to guess who he is 3 times in a row, and when asked straight who he is he only answers he's from another dimension, not that he's Spider-Man), but we're still led to believe he's a good guy, especially because he is constantly being unintentionally funny. But with that line Hobie says during his introduction, we're also getting foreshadowed of who Miguel truly is. Hobie's line and the foreshadows connect even better, because no one believes Miguel is a good guy, he doesn't look like a good guy and he doesn't seem to act like a good guy, but throughout the whole movie he keeps "calling himself a hero" (helicopter scene in the beginning of the movie, the scene after he sends Gwen home).
when i first heard that line i thought it was supposed to be “ironic” since he previously stated he didn’t like labels then proceeding to “label” someone else but that’s such an interesting interpretation
They seriously did their homework with Hobie. He’s a real person. He’s believable. I’m an Afro Brit and my dad is the epitome of this dude. British afropunk meets an enlightened bloke who influences under the radar…his complexity is beautiful yet quite annoying but you can’t hate him. He really is looking out for Gwen bc she finally realizes what’s going on too.
As a black Brit I was also shocked by the accuracy. Apparently Daniel kaluuya (the va) was given creative control; he also grew up in camden which makes this 10x better. Was a bit worried at first when they introduced a British character. Glad they went down this route instead of stereotypical queen english brit 😂
A big reason for Hobie to know how Miles' power works is because Hobie Brown is the original Prowler in the comics, and Miles' power seems to have some connections to the Prowler through his uncle and destiny in an alternate universe. Hobie is so close to Miles because he basically *is* Miles. He is *also* a Spider-Man who wasn't supposed to be Spider-Man, and has a history of taking Peter Parker's place.
Just to clarify, in the comics Hobie was the Prowler of 616, but (to my knowledge) in the universe Spider-Punk comes from he was never the Prowler. Miles' uncle was originally only the Prowler in the Ultimate universe, until the Ultimate universe was merged into the 616. So Hobie and Aaron didn't really have any connections aside from using the same villain name. But I wouldn't be surprised if they made more of a connection there in the BTSV though. It just seems like too much of a coincidence for them not to.
I'm really sick of this idea that every spider that isn't peter wasn't 'supposed' to be spider-man. It's just specifically this version of Miles who had his fate changed. All the spiders were 'meant' to be Spider-Man. "What makes you different is what makes you Spider-Man"
@@arsha8547there’s nothing to say that in a multiverse vast enough for kitty-cat Spider-Men, dinosaurs, cartoons and Lego Spider-Men, that things in Miles’ world didn’t turn out EXACTLY as they were supposed to. In Universe 42, MILES was supposed to be the original Spider-Man, a multiverse has room for infinite possibilities.
I think what's funny about Miles feeling threatened by Hobie is that the reasons Gwen is at Hobie's home is because she doesn't have one, Gwen broke rules just to go see Miles, and Gwen literally doesn't stop talking about how cool Miles is so much so that everyone already knows him as Gwen's bestfriend who she is definitely is in love with. Its also funny because Gwen does the same thing. Gwen and Miles are both scared that the other one is thinking about other people.
My favorite part bout the "love triangle" is that it's all Miles' perception yes, Gwen is staying at Hobie's place, but not as his girl... as a friend or even a sister. Yes, I see Hobie as the epic big bro figure who took first Gwen, then Miles' under his wing and I LOVE that dynamic especially with the competition of affection misdirect.
In fact they are both jealous. As we can seen Miles is jealous about hobbie , And did any body notice that Gwen was jealous When miles meets with Margo "MARGO KEES AKA SPIDER-BYTE OF EARTH 22191" starting from 1:21:02 upto 1:21:43 Miles:That's cool.sorry. I'm spiderman. Margo: Oh,no way! All of us are. Then she swings. Gwen:Can we just keep moving ?👈( Didn't even wanted him to chat.jealousy!) Miles:whoa,whoa,whoa. What are you? Margo: I'm an avatar. My body is back in my parents' dimension,chilling in a gaming chair and eating Frito's. Back at home"Right' because you don't listen." Margo: Here is better. Miles: I here that. What does that do? Hobbie: Apart from having a great name? Gwen: The go home machine. Hobbie: What did i say,eh? Gwen: I voted against it. Margo: It detects whatever dimension your DNA is from and sends you there. Hobbie: It's super humane and not creepy. Margo: see you dawg.Don't come back. Gwen: we should go. We don't wanna keep the boss waiting. Miles: Ah,See you around? Hobbie: Let's go! Gwen:pull miles by the web.👈(shows the jealously) Margo: Good luck out there, man. Miles: Okay,bye! This can make as sure about Gwens feelings on miles.
I really love this Miles and Gwen dynamic, they are so cute, and it is particularly poignant when Gwen portrayed as more "Grown up", mature and sure/confident than Miles in the first movie, and that is the point of the intro for the movie, building up Gwen as being as much of a lost teenager a Miles.
@@nonnativenarnianI also think that Hobie may even have a little bit of hero worship for Gwen, because apparently his universe had a SpiderGwen, had, and he kind of looked up to her. (A sort of Watching the Legend become the Legend thing)
Just a little fact, you said Hobie named his spider persona after his favorite genre of music, and while you are right with everything you said about it, Punk is not /just/ a genre of music. Its a political ideology of anti-fascism, anti-establishment, and non conformitiy. The Punk ideology is what Miguel is striving against. He wants everything to happen the way he thinks it should and stops anyone from non conformity, and you basically talked about the parts with the fascism. Also in Punk fashion punks literally thrift clothes and tear them apart and put them back together or make something new out of it. It's all about making new clothes out of old stuff or thrifted stuff, and I think it's interesting that Hobie was the one to make the watch. He probably took apart his own watch and looked at all the stuff that was used to make it and put it back together and then stole tech to slap a new one together.
Replace those forward slashes with underscores to get _italics!_ Also, yeah, I'm not anarchistic, but as a Linux-using, DIY-minded person, the "favorite genre of music" bit in a video about a practical definition of depth in a creative medium kinda low-key triggered me.
Not only that his character’s design being torn paper layered over each other really drives the punk factor in, it’s super cool the way his character is so layered (literally and figuratively) and that he’s not just some “I love anarchy and I will create chaos”, but his anarchist actions are against miguels logic
im not disagreeing with you, but punk doesnt necessarily mean anti fascism. it's anticonformity in general. that's why half of the old punk bands you remember are neonazis and the other half are anti fascist. the only thing holding together "punk culture" as a whole is anger against the status quo, which means the specific ideology of any particular "punk" person depends on their perspective of the status quo. originally, like in the 70s and 80s, punk could probably be described exactly how you put it, i'd just argue that it has not been exactly like that within the last 30 years.
When they first introduced Hobie, my reaction was 100% "ah, dammit, they're making comedy out of everything he says to rob it of its real bite." Then he helped Miles get in gear when nobody else would and straight up quit, and I thought "okay, okay, respect for that, there was some real punk in there after all." Then came the ending and I was officially obsessed with this dude because "OH, DAMN, HE WAS NEVER FUCKING AROUND FOR EVEN ONE SECOND, HUH?"
Dude was overplaying his anarchistic anti-authority persona so the Spider-Society wouldn't take him seriously. Even Miguel didn't see that Hobie was stealing technology right under his nose. Like an actual anarchist, he sets his plan by waiting. Then he sees what Miguel was willing to resort then he starts the dominos to fall. He was true to himself the entire time. Like Miles, he was willing to break rules to do the right thing. Hobie played 4D chess against the dude who probably has 4D chess in his futuristic lab
One thing I love about Hobie is that even with the superficial stuff, if you listen closely there's still truth in what he says. He never outright lies, he just plays up his personality so no one takes his words seriously enough to silence him. He purposely pokes Miguel (like taking the empanada) because it distracts from what he's really doing. You can see how experienced he is with dealing with fascistic societies even when Superficial Hobie is at play once you know to look for it. Also fun fact I learned, Hobie used to (not sure if he still does) HATE being called Spider Punk (called himself Spiderman) because it was people trying to paint him as not deserving of the proper title.
In the Spiderverse comic run where he's introduced he hates the name Spider Punk, but by the time that his own comic run takes place he's grown to like the name.
And I think it makes sense he'd like the name considering it makes him standout from just being your average Spider-Man. Doesn't make sense he'd want to deserve a title that pretty much everyone has. It makes sense he'd deviate from the norm, which the name does perfectly.
I'd also argue that Hobie's subtly allows Miles to grow in a more natural way. He's not pressured into Hobie's perspective, but instead stumbles into it. Same thing with the audience. We're questioning him throughout as well, and it allows the story to unfold and be told instead of it being shown directly.
His character is everything!! He's literally the force of teenage rebellion, sticking it to the man and truly living up to the Punk name. I love that you mention the importance of artistic and musical expression in this story and how its a way in which the characters can rebel against the interpersonal pressures with their families, and reject conformity of an authoritative system. For anyone who can relate, art and the punk movement has been there for us to turn to when we need to express ourselves and simply rebel so that we can just be ourselves and do our own thing.
@@RelaxAndRawr The same beauty can be created with equally strong support. It's annoying that struggle is something sought after rather than just accepted within our capitalist hellholes.
It is actually heavily implied that Hobie also has a variation of electric powers like Miles but it's established differently like through his guitar, you can see the lightning drawings the moment he breaks the barrier, which also justifies how he's able to give miles advice on how to harness his electric power properly.
I think the barriers are just weak to high volumes of any energy, it'd make much more sense that Hobie's power is more relavent to sound waves, than it is electricity. As he's an anarchist and fully against corrupt systems (therefore, loud). So maybe the barriers could be sensitive to high concentrations of energy capable of travelling through it?
I love the fact that Hobie is just pure unadulterated chaotic neutral. EXACTLY how a punk would be. Favorite scene from the movie has to be when he unmasked himself with Miles and when miles asks him why he even looks cool without the mask, he simply responds with "I’ve always been cool." Absolutely love the guy lol!
Idk, IS he neutral? Chaotic, absolutely, but he always seems to want to help miles/stick it to “the man” (Miguel/the society). Feel like unadulterated chaotic GOOD to me but I’m no expert
I recently read in a Tumblr post someone emphasizing how Hobie created a futuristic technology clock from rubble and wall parts as a boy from the 70's. That's wild.
I would argue that’s more impressive than Miguel priding himself in building the first dimension hopper especially considering Miguel’s preexisting background and resources and situations in life (advanced tech). Even if hobie was clued into the blueprints of it, he essentially crafted one with completely different and miscellaneous materials he could sneak under the radar.
I love how Hobie plays into the punk stereotype in order to get away with all that stealing. Normally characters like him are depicted as dumb, but Hobie is so much smarter than a lot of us give him credit for.
I also love it because even I thought he was going to be the sterotypical punk written in shows. Of just rule breaking for the sake of it. Man had actual cause and heart for punk and use a lot of punk terms to throw people off. Love him
The first time you can see he is not dumb is after Spot vanishes and Pavitr Prabhakar starts to celebrate, he reacts the same as Miles and Gwen that this is not over...
He really is perfectly punk. Both superficial (punk sayings, aesthetic, stealing shit, rock star) and genuine (legitimately a rebel, unambiguously there for his loved ones, stealing shit, aesthetic).
the point you made about spider people and art hits the every nail on the head for me because as soon as i stepped out of the theatre after my first watch, i thought of the connection between everyone with art (not to mention the sheer importance of the entire spider-verse franchise for artists including myself). thank you for making this video about my absolute favorite character!
Knew this film was a masterpiece from the Guggenheim opening, but the moment where Miles is in the laser cage and the shot spins round and settles on Hobie wordlessly reassuring him that he has the tools to escape and save his dad... man, creating catharsis like that from seemingly so little set-up is basically dark sorcery
@@bobthegamingtaco6073 Yeah, I'm out here trying to learn how to foreshadow properly in my writing without it being a complete asspull or ridiculously obvious on the get go. Maybe I just understand foreshadowing better in visual media.
@@joyc.e.7511 there's a reason why it's called chekov's gun. With books you really do need to add in little details like a gun hanging on the wall, that way when the gun gets shot you get a "oh my god that gun wasn't mentioned after chapter 3" effect. Honestly, I'd look at d&d, choose your own adventure books, and if you want to subvert it, the Alcatraz Vs Evil Librarians series
@@bobthegamingtaco6073 Thank you, I'll check those out! I've always been impressed with choose your own adventure books (I don't know much about d&d but I think it functions similarly, with someone writing out the lore and plot). Essentially writing alternate timelines based on a few decisions. The book series you mentioned sounded familiar and it turns out I've seen it a few times in my local library lol. I've been thinking of getting into Brandon Sandersons' books.
@@joyc.e.7511 d&d is similar, but if you're the DM, you really get to practice balancing amount of information with length of exposition. It's a really good exercise to avoid the dreaded Exposition Dump, plus, since it's a game, players will tend to look for exploitable faults in world building, which helps get you thinking about plot holes in your regular writing, both how to avoid them and how to patch them up when they inevitably arise.
One of my favorite lines from the movie is during Miles whole revelation scene Peter B. :"Look kid" Miles: "Stop. Calling me. That" Hobie: "There we go" Spider Woman: "Hobie you're not helping" Hobie: "Good." The pacing, the delivery, Hobie's expression, it's just a quick little aside, but that moment taught us SO much about Hobie's character. It's so good
He has previous experience with this type of situation, is hoping that Miles would start rebelling on his own, and was actively (but subtly) sewing seeds for the society’s downfall. Agreed, that line is really phenomenal.
my favorite part of Hobie is how he's written in such a way that, as an anarchist, i could immediately see through all the superficial deception. Gwen crashing at his place isnt bc theres something there, its because hes a punk and an anarchist and Gwen is homeless. He's housing her as any good punk would bc she has no where else to go and if you understand that you can immediately tell thats what's really going on. The mix of superifcial and true hobie in his intro is also easy to see through as an anarchist bc a lot of the superficial jokey stuff just comes off as, well, that, a joke. He's messing around and if youre another punk or anarchist you immediately latch on to what true Hobie says bc thats the real shit. And then in the scene where he's stealing pieces for a watch you can instantly clock what he's doing bc theyre talking about watches and DIY is a core part of punk culture. If you think the way he does as a revolutionary youll also immediately realize that the watches are *the* most important thing and you need to make your own watches that arent tracked or monitored or controlled by Miguel to be able to accomplish anything, and the best place to get the parts necessary for the watches would be from right under miguel's nose. He's written in such a way that most people will fall for his deceptions but others punks and anarchists will immediately see through it and understand what he's doing and that's honestly amazing.
i wish i was a bit more savvy in those ways, but im definitely not as savvy as you and probably some others, but i did catch MOST of this, on my first viewing and was really glad to have noticed what was going on. there was some bits that i missed (that it was clearly the watches he was after) but a lot of it I understood too, because, as you said having a similar way of thinking.
Yes! I remember being a bit in disbelief at seeing such a good and cool representation of a punk character. From the very beginning he’s clearly stating what he believes in and what actually drives his actions, but most people are just used to not taking that kind of discourse seriously and their first response is to think it’s a joke or he’s just saying random stuff
100% this. My only hesitation at the beginning was “Oh, does this movie understand what anarchism is, or is Hobie going to be a superficial punk?” But RIGHT AWAY it becomes obvious that no, he’s the real deal
Yeah, agreed. If anything it's interesting to see how the average person does dismiss all that as superficial noise as that very much reflects on where society's at. Someone on the writing team knew their shit.
Fun fact: "Hate the AM" could probably be labeled serious/genuine as well. "AM" is referring to the radio, where propaganda is played. And of course, "PM" is referring to the Prime Minister. It's an anarchanistic Brit-quip through and through haha!
For brazillians this also kinda works out nicely: PM is how we call our military police. Which... well, that's two things every good punk hates just bundled up nicely.
@@m.b.8282 The AM/PM thing sounds mindless at first glance, like saying you hate the day AND the night. Face value is him being superficially punk. PM meaning Prime Minister gives new context to the AM, its just a smokescreen to make it into a quip. Its a good line, it fits the "inconsistent" trait well.
So, I was kind of hoping this wouldn't get mentioned in the video, because now I get to say it. Firstly, this only struck me quite so strongly because I saw the thumbnail for THIS video about a week before watching Across the Spider-verse. So I knew there was more to Hobie going in than I would have otherwise. But that scene. You know the one. Where Hobie reveals who and what he *really* is. All of this video is entirely valid, but that scene, a few little lines, tie it together. Because yeah, Hobie is the goofy guy, he's wacky and Cool(tm) and everything...until he isn't. There's a very popular trope in Superhero media, of 'the character stops holding back'. Older Millenials will probably have Superman as their best example of this: "What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am". For Spider-man, these moments usually come when he stops quipping and joking. Like much of superhero media, it's an ultimate power fantasy. But sometimes it misses out on what makes superheroes so engaging to BEGIN with. The fact that they rise to meet a need nobody else can. So, when Hobie does this exact thing, what's the context? Everything is Bad. The worst it could be, pretty much. The illusion of how cool this place was for Miles has been shattered, EVERYBODY he thought he could trust has turned on him and is condemning his father to die while refusing to let him even try and stop it. The music, the camera work, everything in the scene is panic and despair. And then, "There you go." "Hobie you're not helping." "Good." "Palms, not fingers." "By the way? I quit." In the space of a few words, delivered with deadly seriousness, Hobie stops pretending. You can see the pieces sliding together behind his eyes, hear it in his tone. Miles is overcome but Hobie is there telling US just how powerful he really is. No more jokes, no more (well, one more) quip. In the darkest possible moment, when we the *audience* need it most, Hobie becomes a superhero. In a room full of people with incredible powers, he and Miles are the *only* ones who are. He has undercut this entire organization, and NOBODY ever had a chance of stopping him. "Because that's what Spider-man does. He finds a way."
holy crap. this idea just blew open the vault of potential that i thought was possible for Hobie as a character. he stops joking when he’s fulfilling that trope, using his full power, and his power is to incite change.
My favorite example of when Spider-Man stops quipping is one comic where King Pin threatens Aunt May and Peter goes to the prison that holds King Pin, takes of his suit, challenges him to a fist fight, and almost beats him to death. The only thing that stops him from killing the biggest, most powerful threat in his world is himself. Spider-Man is terrifying when he's serious because that's when no one can stop him. He WILL accomplish his goals. There are many comics when he will die before he stops making jokes because he knows what he's capable of. Hobie knows this. He probably knows this better then anyone else in that room because his entire life has been him fighting. The fact that he makes less jokes when he gets to the spider place (I don't remember the name) just shows how much he hates what it's become, but when he's completely serious at the end it shows that he will NOT let anyone stand in the way, no matter who they are or how much power they hold.
@@yourshoulderdevil5229 I don't even like that scene, but yes, EXACTLY that. "The problem, Fisk, is you don't have any real power. Can't fly, can't shoot fire across the room. You're just a man." That's an *ugly* sentiment to come out of Peter Parker. But it isn't wrong.
I love how the existence and treatment of Hobie by Miguel also adds to Miguel's characterization, he doesn't take him seriously, he's mostly just annoying to Miguel, he seems to be somewhat useful because he's still there but Miguel doesn't like him, he doesn't like him but also doesn't find him particularly threatening or dangerous, i feel like this tells us about how Miguels tend to underestimate people, he has a person who is against almost anything he does and he's just like "Ugh, You...", he sees other spiders as inferior or lesser, his motive isn't helping spiders or helping people it's keeping the multiverse under control. The way he treats Miles it's a bit similar, he treats him as less, as a mistake and assumes he can easily overpower him. That's also one of Miguel's biggest flaws, by underestimating people he set himself for failure twice in the movie.
My favourite thing he does is visibly scavenge parts while literally saying to Miles "build your own watch." He's actually not even hiding his intentions, he just plays them up as quirky banter and a faux-rebellion while he means every word of it. Truly refuge in audacity. Also, it has to be monumentally sad for him to pledge his life to a fight against fascim and such, believing himself to be alone, and when he finds out about the multiverse, and the untold people just like him, they're all kowtowing to yet another fascist. And he doesn't take it laying down. He can do the same as Miguel can, but better. He reverse-engineered and replicated the watches, and he too has people by his side, but won over with kindness and inspiration, not just conformity and fear. He truly is PUNK AF.
Problem is, harsh or not, Miguel might still just be right, I think there's something deeper going on, (And that Miguel is just caught up in it, too) but if there isn't, all thus rebellion ends in is the destruction of multiple universes. Most interesting point is that they're all the good guys, trying to do their best, miles might be against them, but they might be right. We'll see in a year or so.
@@MagicCardboardBox I do think Miguel missed something, and his theories on canon are flawed. Both earth-42 and 1610 are structurally intact, despite both suffering from multiverse tampering. I'm pretty sure Miguel just jumped at the first plausible explanation simply for closure.
@@alecchristiaen4856 I agree with you on that one! Miguel's multiverse theories are flawed and he is unwilling to revise them (probably because that means his closure and/or his power over the other Spider-people will be shattered). Not to mention that this whole mess is really whoever let the radioactive spider from Earth-42 into Miles' universe... Or it could have even been a freak accident!
@@Gremlinnethat being said they seem pretty real to him. So punk spidermen, with the current data, would indeed be heading to destroy the multiverse. The movie will probably go the "there is always another way" point but as far as the things that are known up until now, it is obvious that Miguel is right regardless of how much Hobbie wants to be against it.
I think for me the biggest turning point and realization of Hobie’s character was his first truly upfront anti-authoritarian act we see: helping Miles break out of the barrier miles puts him in. The way it calls back to hobie teaching miles to break barriers earlier and how by doing this he practically kicks off the revolution through chain events is fantastic
On my first watch Hobie felt chaotic. On second watching I realised how intentional everything he does is, and how he showed up already knowing how the Miles and Miguel confrontation would go and ready to help out. Amazingly written character.
Even the "thought that'd be how I reveal my secret identity? Come out of it" is Hobie directly hinting to the audience that his identity is not what you're being shown at the surface level in that into and that he has a more complex way he's going to reveal his true self to the audience. Amazing video as always!
There's also the moment when they're walking to Miguel's office and Hobie asked miles why he wants to join spider society. Miles says "To get a watch" to which Hobie says to "Make your own," tipping us off to the fact that he was already reverse engineering the watches before hand
Miles initially blows off the thought, "it's too hard for me to do on my own", right? But right from the beginning we're seeing Miles try to get into college to study interdimensional physics to reunite with his friends from the first movie. All the Spiders in Spider Society and across Spider-Man media are scientists or have an interest in science in some form, I reckon Hobie recognises that Miles *absolutely* has the genius and drive to make his own watch rather than having to rely on Spider Society for one. I like to think Hobie's pushing the punk rock DIY mentality but he's also giving his faith to the people he's sees potential in.
Also, when we're listening to Hobie telling Gwen she left her sweater round at his place, we're too immersed in Miles' competitive, reflexively anti-Hobie perspective to notice, but it's actually another big pointer to who he is, and we already have everything we need to know this if we could just step away and think: Gwen is on the run from her home dimension. She's been taken in by the Spider Society, but if Hobie is "letting" her stay round, she clearly isn't able to stay with the Society at that time, for whatever reason. And, we know that Hobie is anti-fascist and anti-authoritarian, coupled with his casual but very caring attitude with lines like "looking out for my drummer". Thus, what reads as Gwen staying over with a romantic partner from Miles' and our initial perspective, is both a powerful and caring gesture from Hobie and a hint at his clashes with the Society. So the moment the switch is flipped, thinking back on this scene completely changes it.
Also, something that i don't think is talked about enough is how Hobie wears blue shoelaces. In punk culture, that means that he killed a cop. This could mean that his canon event was killing his own fater who was probably also a police capitain. He might wear the blue shoelaces to not forget, or to show that it was necessary and that he'd do anything for his ideology. BUT he is one of the major reasons that Gwen's father gives up being a captain. This not only can imply that he wants to save gwen from the same suffering he went through, but also that he feels in a way that somehow his father's death could've been prevented. That's probably a big part of the reason why he hates canon events so much. Also, regarding what was said in the video about Miguel. The fact that the movie not only shows how different people can be Spiderman, but people with different stories can become spiderman. Hobie is like the embodiment of that. His canin event wasn't just losing a police officer who was close to him, it was KILLING him. That might be another reason why he doesn't believe in canon events. If his canon event was different and his world didn't disappear, who says the canon event could've just never happened all together? Anyways, thank you for coming to my TED talk. Im way too invested in this movie.
Now this has my wheels turning about what if his cop dad was abusive which is why he killed him and also why he houses Gwen and asked Miles about his family life. He wants to give kids support and protection he didn't get!
Somehow I totally forgot about Laces. That's such a good detail. I do wonder if it was intentional or just "Spider colors" but I'd lean towards intentionality with how well in depth every choice was
@@SeidrSnowsongI think I recall the actual character designer publicly stating it wasn't intentional, but regardless of intention I think it's an excellent piece of storytelling!!!!
just something that went through my head: miguel compares the multiverse with a spiderweb, which are known for being extremely strong. A SINGLE change in the canon would be like a thread snapping or something catching on it, sure it can shake things up, but the web will not break. There also will always be new spiders making more and more threads, the web is infinite and solid
That is SO on point on what anarchy is. It's bonding with PEOPLE, outside of structures. It's creating strong relationships and trust in a group so that you don't need any kind of structural obligation to help each other, and never blindly following anybody to mimic what would have to be done (ie having role models) but being yourself instead. It's all about being genuine. Hobie really does it well. Personally, from the start, I never thought he was shallow. I was afraid they would turn him into a comic relief which would also have made anarchy into a comedy material, but I'm so glad they took him seriously.
That's a fair point, but it's also an ironically naive outlook, because people are the corrupting force of organizations in the first place. The point of large organizations is to eliminate as many opportunities for betrayal of trust as possible. Which is, naturally, what attracts traitors to them in the first place. Eliminating organizations doesn't create trusting, cooperative communes. It actually does the opposite.
It's great to see such a deep analysis on an aspect of a great movie that most people don't realise is worth thinking about. Your videos go way beyond the overdone generic review of popular media and I love it!
Personally, I didn't know much about the character Spider Punk prior to this movie, and as an ex-punk myself, I think I, as many others, mistakenly often think about basic white Brits when you think about punk. But having Hobie be a POC makes SO much sense for his character as well. Seeing him without the mask and (to me) looking completely different (and older) than what I had imagined in my head, like in true punk style, was such a pleasant surprise! And it honestly just made me love the character even more.
I actually think that Hobie when introduced us the REAL Hobie & the one we see in the spider society is ironically his mask. When with gwen, Pav & even miles, he is cool, but he's also wild and cracks jokes left and right, but in the spider society, the closer he gets to Miguel, the more reserved he is; no jokes but more sarcasm come backs. He has more fun stopping a threat that could kill him, than being around millions of alternate versions of a guy he is based on. He treads carefully amongst people who are supposed to be his kin, but is a joker and a wild card against his enemies. It's a weird but perfectly introverted and inverted trait that shows just how different he is from the other spiderhmen
Because at least with people who declare they’re your enemy, you know exactly where you stand and what actions to take. Whereas among people who say they’re on your side, but have ulterior motives, you have to tread carefully 👌🏾
this is a good point, in the Spider Society he's essentially acting as a long-game sabateur, he has to be cool, not push too many buttons, steal a piece here, a part there, DIY (or steal and jailbreak) as many watches as he can manage, for when the time finally comes to make a move. He makes friends and allies, people that would have his back if things went sideways, aided Gwen who was *also* lined up to have to let their father die for the canon event, and is clearly torn up about that. Hobie probably saw Gwen as a potential instigator of change, in addition to being his drummer and friend, Miles would up being the one, but if Miles hadn't gotten involved, I think it's likely Gwen would have had a change of heart, and gone to save her dad, with Hobie having her back, bringing along any friends and allies he could get to answer the call. (come to think of it, he'd probably help Gwen bring Miles in to back her up in that scenario)
I think what adds to Hobie's characterization is how hard it is to hear what he says, whether it's Superficial Hobie or its Real Hobie. With Superficial Hobie, his voice is loud but the music is just as loud and he speaks incredibly fast, making it hard to hear first time watching. With Real Hobie, his accent is thick and he's soft spoken in great Daniel Kaluuya fashion. It's hard to understand what he's saying which I think adds to his punk nature and what he adds to the story. He's a voice in the background, foreshadowing and telling us that this spider society isn't all that great. He's hard to understand, until you experience the hardship that fascism brings then you can understand him.
The music being louder is just because for some reason the sound balance is ass in the movie The same thing happens during the intro when Gwen, Miguel, and Jess battle the Vulture
yes, the mixing on its original release was pretty bad. they redid it about a week or two after opening, i went to see it again and it was much better. id still say OP's point stands. the music during his lil speech is dissonant in a way gwen's wasnt. they just went a bit too far and made him unintelligible the first time around
The visual language of Hobie's design really complements these ideas too--his design is constantly changing in terms of color, pattern, and speed of animation. He is always standing out but also creating a type of visual misdirect for the eye. He'll bend the rules of his world as much as he bends the rules of animation itself since his different layers are animated at different speeds. He has depth quiet literally within his collage-appearance both being layered in terms of material and rate of motion. He is many things at once.
Also did you notice his changes SEEM anarchic and uncontrolled but, much like his actions, there's depth to all of them? Grey when disappointed or getting serious about the ills of the world. Pink blush when affectionate. Bold and brash when playing to the crowd.
Hobie is a great character, but I think some people's surprise that he is deep and "against the machine" is that ppl don't know/remember the history of punk. They get blinded by his cool and put him into the "superficial cool" box. His aesthetic is very intentional and actually clues the viewer in to his more radical politics. He can be someone who makes Miles insecure to establish that smaller arc and also be "true" Hobie. I think he's true the entire time ppl just are quick to slot ppl into boxes and forget that multiple things can be true at once.
I love the point made about art. A huge theme is how people living out the same story make different choices based on their perspectives. I personally like the idea that the aesthetics of people universe is literally how they see and hear. Miguel not being artistic shows his inability to consider other perspectives. But I noticed in the film, Uncle Aaron actually is a master of his art too, specifically in how he turns up his music to interrogate Miles. As the atmosphere gets more emotionally intense, the art in scenes gets more abstract, so Aaron knows that by amplifying your art you can expand your individuality. His art is his link to Miles (also Hobies link to Miles, and I know Hobie is sometimes the Prowler so maybe there's a connection there) which is also why Miles' Dad says they can throw up some of his art at the end of itsv. I think it's related to the point made in that first video about inability to communicate.
(EDIT: Apologies for the MUTED quotes, got hit with a music claim again, just like the last vid... 🙄) Question: Why do you think Gwen switched from ballet shoes to chucks after she joins the Spider Society? 🤔
I wonder if there's a punk subculture thing we don't know about here. For example, I discovered the blue shoelaces Hobie wears is code in the punk community for having killed a cop. (Maybe in his universe, Hobie actually killed his police chief!)
Visually, I would like to note that the more of "True Hobie" is showing, the more black-and-white he is presented. Less colorful, less jumping around of the art. I mean, his art style is never not quick-change around the edges as if different pieces of paper were being used in each double-length frame, _but_ when he's being "superficial Hobie," it's not JUST different pieces of paper each frame, but somewhat different art bits, with actually different entire segments for legs or arms (same pose, different color/style) and with things layered on top with a lot of extra pieces of paper forming the collage. When we get Hobie talking to Gwen in that serious question voice, or trying to have real-talk with Miles about the situation, he's all one piece of paper at any point in time, and we see him not as an impressionistic collage, but as a solid sketch.
If you think about it, alot of revolutionaries were/are spies and people you never would give the time of day. Hobie plays this role to understand exactly what Miguel is doing and get more people on his side quietly.
Character crafting like this shows us all why the writers require our support during this strike. If we want to experience more stories on this quality, these people need to be compensated! Take from the studio elite and apply where it's due. We should all be Hobie when it comes to institutions that seek to keep us all 'in check.'
My favorite part about Hobie's art style is how it's always changing from his colors to his cutout outline thickness. Even the way he was animated was unique compared to everyone else. His body was animated on 3s, guitar was animated on 4s, and outline was animated on 2s. When Hobie says he doesn't believe in consistency, he means it.
Wait seriously? I know that they animated on different frames for some things but animating different parts of a single character on different frames like that is insane. Sheesh, no wonder his animation was so striking.
@@saphcalI'd argue that "inconsistency" as a constant of someone's personality is an inate contradiction, and an inconsistency by extension. This is fun to think about!
About the art point, its a pretty neat point! I think Miguel has an art for himself as well, its a lot more rigid and logical than traditional art, but his design and the watch and his displays all look like theyre on a blueprint, so I took it to believe he designed them. Its very rigid and straight lines and efficient just like him, thats how he expresses himself.
One thing I love about all the spiders is how intelligence, art, and humour are all key components but they express themselves in different ways. Deception, engineering, tactics. Photography, illustration, music. Deadpan, quips, even straight-manning. Miguel stands out for not being overtly funny or artistic, but he just expresses it in different ways
the designers of the movie said the art style of Miguel and his dimension are kinda ironic since everything is sharp, pretty and utopian, but at the same time you can see the blueprint lines sticking out, as if to say that the future isn't set in stone as he believes
29:30 This tidbit about Hobie and Gwen's lore hits hard when you remember that she is part of a society where her canon event is to DIE FOR PETER and she even mentions that as one of her insecurities in the movie. Hobie canonically sees her as more than just plot development for a guy.
The fact that you can coin the phrase "Let's do the Bunny Work" and have your entire fan base understand it as a complex, multilayered narrative dive speaks to your ability as a writer. So glad I found your channel.
I know you prefaced your analysis of Hobie’s political action by saying you don’t know much, but I think you made a ton of great points that other people would know to point out about actual methods of revolution! Great job!
Fun moment: When Hobie takes off his mask, Miles asks, "How are you more cool without the mask?" To which Hobie responds, "I was always this cool," a subtle hint that real Hobie was there the whole time, you just didn't notice.
You blew my mind with all of those questions at the end! I was sitting here wondering “how do you even layer a character like this????” Then BAM I suddenly, at 2x speed, understood at least the path to a character this profound. They probably didn’t even realize all the implications of this! Every one of those questions expands the rabbit trail just a little more. My mind is racing. More hobbie please. GREAT video man
24:02 This is still my favorite scene. To everyone around him, who aren't taking him seriously, it looks like he's being cowardly or pacifying Miles, but he's actually reminding Miles to use his palms to get out. That's what really brought Hobie's character to the next level for me, and I think its a good example of his superficial vs real dynamic.
I love the way that Hobie is so confident and secure in who he is that he even though it's obvious Miles feels insecure about his presence, Hobie immediately does everything he can to boost Miles' sense of worth. He takes a moment to quietly show him how to get the full power out of a venom strike, and when they save Mumbattan, Hobie takes time to make sure Miles knows how well he did. Then, when Miles is trapped, Hobie's there reminding him how to do the venom strike. This is what makes Hobie so great, he's not a hero or a role model, but he's someone who cares deeply about other people, especially those who are vulnerable and he does what he can to help them. Pav is probably only as chipper as he is because when he lost his uncle, Hobie stepped in to be a new mentor figure. Miles was afraid of meeting a rival, but the moment Hobie enters his or Pav's or Gwen's life, he's a big bro to all these teens who need a big brother figure who's there for them.
One detail that an artist mentioned is that Hobie never fits in to any scene he's in. He always sticks out just... visually, an abject refusal to blend into the background, to fit the style and structure of the world around him. It's a great way of visually clueing you in to the fact that even if Hobie is *in* Spider Society, he's not really *of* Spider Society. He's only there to keep an eye on things, and intervene when the time is right.
I think the casting's important too. They cast Daniel Kaluuya for Hobie, who played Fred Hampton in Judas and the Black Messiah. The fact that they got an actor who played a Communist revolutionary who was killed by the FBI to uphold the status quo should say a lot. It would make sense because Kaluuya knows how to play a competent and empathetic revolutionary.
To be completely honest, I looked at Hobie completely seriously from the start, half-expecting him to be a disappointing caricature but overall seeing him as sort of a mentor figure to Miles. It might be because, as a fan of Cyberpunk and post-apocalyptic punk, I already know this genre Hobie is based on is only a colorful great revolution on the surface (as a disguise), and serious rebellion in actuality.
Also very Spider-Person of him. Distracting and disarming his opponents with humor to coax their plans, then formulating and executing his own plan based on that intel. It's the most classic play in the Spider-Man playbook.
Spiderman is a magician, distracting you so you don't see the "trick" that's happening right in front of you. Hobie is doing that the whole time he's on screen.
even Hobie's superficial elements are another part of his true revolutionary base- i.e. his funny and derivative one-liners are part of the personal connections he makes, or the false stops about performance art/modeling reflect his focus on art & expression
I love the moment when Hobie physically blockades Miles with his legs, because when Miles pushes through it allows Hobie to PHYSICALLY "pivot to walking with Miles where he's going." It's so beautiful when the metaphor can be written straight into the choreography.
As soon as he said "use the palms" I KNEW he would be my favourite. The entire time he's just supporting Miles and helping him escape. When he's walking through HQ he's ripping things off the walls, making a spectacle, distracting from the fact he's taking them to make his own watch.
Hobie dominated my brain after I left the movie theater. This man is so cool and his ideology just syncs up with mine and it makes my brain buzz. The importance of connections which can be facilitated by art are essential to combating fascism. Art is so important as a medium of self-expression because it can’t be taken away by fascists as hard as they may try. The fact he’s looking out for the young spider people makes me so incredibly happy. Omg and his aesthetic is honestly one of these best eye candy in the movie. His character design his dialogue all of it contributes to a character that is the embodiment of the freedom to be yourself. He uses that more British style of punk which (to be honest for me at least) is one of the more recognizable versions of punk. That constantly changing collage of newspaper clippings and messy typewriter fonts bring up the image of punk bands. The fact that he’s a person of color, the fact he’s specifically black in itself feels like an homage to punk. It draws attention to the fact that punk was for people of color and the working class. His sort of diy clothes littered with pins and patches. His hair is all connected to his character. The importance of his freedom. His hair is natural, his fit sometimes changed to orange which is reminiscent of prison suits, his shoes. Like this man gave me so much fucking brainrot and that isn’t even talking about the headcanons I have. Like Hobie feels like he’d be queer in some capacity like he wouldn’t give a shit about gender presentation. Like he would try to exist somewhere outside the binary and that’s pretty hard for a state to control. You can’t really determine who’s going to end up with a different gender at birth because that’s their own perception of themselves. The fact he lets Gwen crash at his place feels like a more older queer person that empathizes with the struggle of being homeless after family rejection. I just love him so much and he’s so cool- Best character and he’s taken seriously about revolution. Like I cannot stress enough how much this character rots my fucking brain omg-
Please never stop these kinds of analyses - even after you've plumbed the depths of Spiderverse, whatever else gets you thinking this deeply on topics like these, keep it up!!
When I heard the line "I'm not a hero, cuz calling yourself a hero makes you a self-mythologizing narcissistic autocrat." I was like: I've found my new favourite character
I did like the voice of decent part of him. When Miguel decided to trap Miles and prevent him from going home his friends were yelling at Miguel, everyone there was was talking about Miles as if they decide his fate. Hobie was talking, calmly, to Miles, reminding him he already has the power to choose his own path. He saw the true face of the Spiderverse. Is he going to accept it, or is he going to fight for what he believes. Hobie is like Uncle Aaron to Miles. His dad is a cop, his mom has high expectations, his school has high expectations, even as Spiderman hes constantly insulted how hes not doing it right, and even his friends silently believe he is not meant to be Spiderman as they allowed Miguel to absolutly tear into him. Miles is absolutly SURROUNDED by authority. Aaron and Hobie are both people that value induviduality and being who you want to, or need to be, and encourages it in Miles.
i love the "hate the am... hate the pm" with the extra emphasis on the pm. as pm doenst refer to time in this line, but to prime minister the leader of the government
One other subtle thing they show to add more depth to Hobie is one of his "canon events". Right as Miguel's explaining canon events to Miles and says: "Canon events bind our lives together", we see Jess, Peter B, Hobie and Gwen all looking at one of their events in the "Spiderweb". Jess seems to be looking at some sort of death of a loved one/fight, not sure about that one. Peter B is looking at his wedding day. Gwen's isn't really visible, but it seems like a fight maybe her Peter Parker's death? And lastly what is Hobie looking at? The day he abandoned his Spidersuit. A character who's very confident in who he is as a Spiderman, in who he is in general. A character who, as mentioned, was set up as a cooler and more competent Spiderman than Miles and above everything else is shown to have one of the strongest ideologies in the movies. All other Spiders(I'm generalizing here) do what they do because "With great power, comes great responsibility', and this applies to Hobie, but he's also an anarchist and steadfast in his believes. One of the only Spiders to rebel and reject the Spidersociety. That Hobie decided to throw away the mask, probably not that long ago too. It really adds to his character by showing us he wasn't always like this. He struggled, changed and grew before becoming the confident Spiderman who follows his morals. It just makes him feel more alive.
i also like how when they're talking about ASM-90, the police captain dying, hobie shrugs and says "what about it?" yeah, it happened to him too, but he's acab
I’m surprised you didn’t point out his “Good” line in response to Gwen’s (I think) line, “Hobie, you’re not helping.” For me that was the big reveal of his 3rd character. The fact that he openly admits that not only is he not trying to help the spider society in achieving Miguel’s goals of controlling Miles. He’s actively and intentionally frustrating them, provoking and empowering Miles to escape. Honestly, as an anarchist myself this is the only line of Hobie’s that I truly resonated with, that truly felt like an act of rebellion. I love the character and agree with your analysis but the whole thing can be summed up in that one moment. The fact that his peers thought he would help or at least thought he would shut up once chastised speaks volumes about how well he has hidden his true self under his first character as you say, his non-serious, write-off-able persona. But then he says “Good” with such a straight face and a straight back and such intense focus. His slouch is gone. His happy-go-lucky chill face is gone. He knows what he is doing, this has been his goal from at least the time he met miles, if not the time he met Miguel. This moment feels so familiar to me. So often those of us who hold strong beliefs which run counter to societal norms are chill laid back people 99% of the time. We go with the flow and let things slide to the point where those around us assume we will never be an obstacle. But then a line gets crossed and we plant our feet and become hard as a rock, immovable. Those who meant to trample over us and those we are defending say things like, “when did you suddenly grow a spine.” But they don’t know. It was always there.
Yes! he says so much with that one word. The writing, the acting, the animation, it all works together perfectly to show you the true nature of this character who everyone has been under-estimating. It's truly great.
I LOVE how Hobie repeatedly tries to physically block Miles from meeting Miguel. Like, not making the decision for him but showing how he feels about the situation.
Precisely.
and simultaneously giving in to let miles pass without any resistance because hobie is committed to independence and free choice, even if he disagrees with the particular decision
Legit, Hobie was the only one who DIDNT chase Miles like every other person did.
@@GreysonParker fr he's like 'i believe in freedom and that also means the freedom to make stupid ass decisions' XD Miles and Gwen are SO lucky to have Hobie as a friend to watch out for them and help them out
It is not only that he didn't want Miles to meet Miguel. it not merely that he let Miles pass without resistance because he is committed to independence. By putting up actual barriers that took no effort for Miles to break through, he psychologically primed Miles for the concept of breaking through barriers, so that he would be more able to do so when an actual barrier gets in his way. That is also why he told Miles the thing about using his palm, not just his fingers. His entire presence there was about teaching Miles to defy barriers.
I think my favorite thing about Hobie is that he doesn't talk down to Miles. Gwen and Peter B. mean well, but they(mostly Gwen) try to let him down easy by sugarcoating things or omitting details. Miguel never even gives Miles a chance and tries to decide what right and wrong should be for him. By contrast, Hobie simply gives Miles the puzzle pieces and stands off to the side, keeping an eye on the situation but trsuting he'll put them together when the time is right.
this!!! despite being set up to make miles feel inferior and immature, hobie is the one who points miles towards self-agency, making his own rules and choices. hobie gives miles so much respect and trust. gwen and peter b were the ones doing most of the making him feel inferior and immature, despite them meaning well.
Nah y’all get it 👍🏾
So real. Hobie was on Miles side from the start. Just being a real force for good behind all the shadiness and secrecy of the spider society
@@aiiiia9971 agreed. And I’m glad he ain’t slandering the other characters for not outright trying to help Miles cuz he understands that not everybody is open and rebellious as Hobie. He’s just another breed of badass
Yes! Hobie empowers Miles to make his own informed choices instead of just trying to protect him. Hobie knows he won't always be there and Miles needs to understand what's going on and what his abilities are so that he can protect himself. It's a fine balancing act, and Hobie does it very well! 💕✨
Looking back, when Hobie takes off his mask and Miles says "How are you even cooler under your mask?" and Hobie replys "I was this cool the whole time", it's a funny line but also speaks the differences in how Hobie and Miles view themselves in regards to the Spiderman persona. Miles still idolizes what being Spiderman means and is trying to live up to that standard. He feels more confident and cool as Spiderman than he does as Miles.
To Hobie, there is no split or divide between who Hobie is and who Spiderman is; they are both forces for the people. He's fully embraced fighting for a better world with and without the mask. He's just that cool the whole time.
That's a beautiful thought!
"If you're uncool without the mask, you'll never be cool with it."
❤
That’s so cool!
Hobbie is also a punk with very little attachment. It's easy to be that cool and detached in your secret identity when you don't really have anything to lose from it.
I think it's kinda funny how Hobie has so much character to him that someone can make an analysis 6x longer than his actual screentime 😂
It's actually 7x (35/5=7)
This video is trying to make something out of nothing just for views. Very desperate if you ask me. I bet my life he's just the same and normal in the sequel
@@rayromano6249 it's okay to say that you just didn't understand anything he said bro 👍
@@rayromano6249Prove it.
@@rayromano6249 then bro you're dead lmao he will have a much bigger role in part 2
A thing that I only noticed when "rewatching the movie" through this video is that Hobie already knew about Miguel's laser cages when he gave Miles the "palms, not fingertips" pointer. He gives Miles what will go on to be a literally life-saving bit of advice in such an ego-bruising way that he can be certain that Miles will remember it when it matters (and remains at Miles' side as a reminder of his advice until the moment it becomes relevant) before IMMEDIATELY dipping once he knows Miles can handle Miguel.
Also, when miles is in the cage, Hobie shows him his palms. We understand he's referencing what he'd told miles before, but on my third viewing of the movie I realised that he's standing in front of the other spidermen. From their perspective, it looks like Hobie is trying to calm down miles. But he's deceiving them still.
@@travisperkins9920 you can even see him mouthing out "use the palm" to Miles! Hobie is so f@cking cool I can't even.
The funniest part about Hobie is you can honestly take it either way. Was it just a random quip? Did he figure out how to break barriers like that because of Spider Societies' laser cages? Did he for see Miles breaking out a cage in the same way? The guy is so free-flowing it could honestly be all yes, it could be all no, it could even be a, excuse my Drake, *combination*
@@FrostDzNz I think Hobie has a variation of the electric power that he used to break through the collider barrier, so knew it could be used against Miguel's ones if needed
@@travisperkins9920 oh, *wow.* Never even considered the deceptive facing
I love that all of Hobie’s lines can be taken a different way depending on how you perceive him! On first watch when you’re defensive against him his line that’s goes like “Bet you have a nice set up at home, nice parents?” kinda just seems like him trying to get a rise out of Miles and maybe bully him for being a momma’s boy. On second watch, where you now know Hobie’s true intentions of helping Miles and taking down the Spider Society, that line reads so different and so much more complex! Hobie is asking Miles if he has a good home to go back to. Gwen has been crashing at Hobie’s dimension not cuz he’s cool but because she doesn’t have a safe home to go back to and Hobie has offered her one. He was prepared to offer that same help to Miles. A lot of Hobie’s actions on second watch just drive home how much he’s really a caring guy, fighting against the establishment for his fellow person.
I also interpreted that line as Hobie knowing that Miles’s dad is a police officer and would die in a canon event. Trying to get him to think about how important his family is to him and not write them off in favor of joining the Spider-Society
OUR FAVORITE ANARCHIST
And I think there's even a third layer. He's gotta know how Gwen feels about Miles. He's trying to make sure she'll be safe. If she visits, stays, or even moves in with Miles, he wants to know that she'll have a good place to stay.
Knowing from the Comics that Hobie grew up in the streets gives this even more dimension. A good home isn’t something he sees as a given. Wich in my mind is a huge part of why he took Gwen in. He knows how it feels to have no place to go. And the idea that he was already planing to take Miles in as well is awesome. I really love how much more there is to this character, the more often you watch this movie. The first time most of us are a little wary of him, the second time he was something to look forward to.
HOLY SHIT I NEVER EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT IT LIKE THAT
What I love most about Hobie, is that even though he’s disappointed with Gwen for being so close to the spider society, he doesn’t just go “you’re on your own”. Dude cares about Gwen, and stays around her to lessen the influence Miguel and the other spiders have on her. He was truly looking out for his drummer.
The biggest example of this, is that he knew Miles coming to the HQ was a sign that the whole lid was about to be blown off. Their treatment of Miles was going to force Gwen to choose between him or the spider society.
So, Hobie knowing who Gwen was as a drummer, knows that Gwen is in fact in love with the boy from 1610. If his intuition is right, she would choose him, and get sent home by Miguel. Hobie is like the protective older brother that knows you are hanging out with the wrong crowd and eventually it will all come crashing down.
So, Hobie crafts a backup plan for his friend. In essence, he ensures that when everything falls apart for Gwen she would end up on the right path. So he had the watch prepared for her and set for E-1610. Miles. So she could repair their relationship.
He is the example of a steadfast friend that disagrees with your life choices, respects your agency, but does what they can to lessen the negative influences on you. Then when you’re in need of a friend, they answer the call to lift you up.
Wonderful messaging from the writing team.
100 percent correct
Best side character
I hope I can be that kind of friend for my homies
You can also argue with how perceptive Hobie is, he already knows Gwen didn't tell Miles the important details since Miles agreed to go along. What he's doing isn't just confirming that detail, he's giving Gwen a chance to tell Miles the truth herself before Miles walks into the Spider's Web. When she doesn't, he prepares to help Miles and build a safety net for Gwen when she figures out what she thinks is right.
Aka he’s a bro
Not for nothing, but Hobie's entire aesthetic is paper, but layers and layers of paper.
....I just can't believe how clever the symbolism in this movie is
Good point!!
these are a very clever reference to the Fanzine community that published pamphlet of art in diverse forms with collage, naive painting and cutted shape out of magazine talking about a lot of various subject, from love to politics!
Oh man, just like an onion.
Holyfuckingshit
I love the subtle hint to Hobie's character that comes off when the mask comes off. He asks Gwen how much she's told him about this place. She makes it clear that she hasn't told him much; he's not /supposed/ to know about this.
So, what does Hobie immediately do? He fills the gaps in Miles's knowledge. Miles thinks this is a Spider-Man utopia, and Hobie tells him to look more critically, planting the seeds of ideas Miles shouldn't have.
When he keeps doing this and is told, "You're not helping," he replies, "Good," a close-up on his unmasked face. It's SUCH good, efficient characterization.
YUP. He was a punk before he was a Spider.
I never realized that, He realized Gwen wasn't going to tell him or try to warn him so he figured he'd be the one to do it. Brilliant. Way to catch that!
He was trying to break the system all along... or until Miles became part of the picture
And I also love how when he introduces himself he doesn't reveal his secret identity, only to unmask himself later because he doesn't believe in consistency
@@tuckernutter he was definitely in it to break it right from the start, Miles was merely the golden opportunity he was waiting for
I also love how Hobie also Visually refuses to conform. Each world each spidy-person comes from has a unique artistic flare. But in the spider society, everyone kinda blends in. Even Gwen, who's soft painter's palette style doesn't really shift and change as it does when she's home. But Hobie? Reguardless where he is, he's a walking collage. Even in the same scene, his entire colour palette can just shift and change. It's significant.
To quote the man himself "I don't believe in consistency".
@@thebadnoob5398 Which is funny, because if you take it like that, it contradicts itself at the same time! Yes, Hobie is making everything else inconsistent, but HE stays consistent the whole way through.
@@thebusiness7702 I love these kinds of dualities! Someone can be consistently inconsistent. The ability to do that is an art and skill.
@@thebusiness7702 Reminds me of, "You can trust a liar to lie"
@@atticusdrot8638 it's the honest man you gotta look out for. you never know when he'll do something...really...stupid
When hobie says ‘I don’t believe in consistency.’ I think he means he’s perfectly okay with using deception as you are free to lie if you want or do contradicting actions.
Also, that doesn't prioritise conforming to any set of rules (even his own) over doing the right thing for his friends.
And it’s a reference/homage/tongue-in-cheek allusion to the very same line from The Lego Movie*, which was ALSO written by Phil Lord and Chris Miller
(*Uttered by Princess Unikitty when they first enter Cloud Cuckoo Land)
that line made the entire theater laugh
yeah. hes pragmatic and his morality isn't centralized around moral rules (being an anarchist)
Let's also not forget the obvious: He doesn't believe "The Cannon" necessarily should be cannon.
What is the most enforced consistency in the story? It's also the most painful personal event for most of them. The backstory tie in. He has every reason to not believe in that, it's an unnecessary human toll to teach a lesson that doesn't have to come out of blood like that. There are other ways to learn responisbility.
It's also worth noting that all those things you point out about Hobie? Those are what make *Spider-Man*. He's funny, he's friendly, he *Cares*. Spider-Man never stands by and does nothing, even if he knows he'd get hurt.
Miguel? Miguel isn't funny. He isn't friendly. He doesn't care about people the way Spider-Man should. And not only does he absolutely stand by while someone gets hurt, he encourages other Spider-people to do so too. Miguel is as much a Spider-Man as Doc Oc was. He's got the powers, he's got the suit, but he hasn't got the heart.
Hobie is *All* heart. And he wields it like a weapon. Because Fascists don't want you to care.
I love the little nods to this throughout the movie too, like Miles going "claws? Are you even a spider-man??" cause he's not. He's not any of the things that make a spider-man. Threatening and mirthless, domineering and cold.. pretty much everything spider-man isn't. The claws are just a physical manifestation of that discrepancy.
I completely agree. Hobie is Spiderman in their purest form. Also, the backstory of Miguel is another huge contrast to Hobie's, at least from the comics. He is a geneticist working for a corrupt research company, and his personality is cold and scientific initially.
A fascist slogan was literally "Me ne frego!": "I don't give a fuck!"
And I’d rather watch Miguel all day every day.
Imagine yourself going to another dimension only to see it implode in front of you, not only earth, but the entire UNIVERSE, all thanos, mars, every single atom just because you wanted a family, it's not about destroying families on earth, but on an infinite scale. If that does not mess you up I don't know what will... then you, by pure guilt, decides to fix *the entire multiverse* that, mind I remind you, it's *infinite* . Remember, at the start of the movie after Gwen confronts his father she says "I don't know how to fix this" and Miguel replies "Welcome to the club", he does not know ether, he's just trying to keep it all together, every day, no vacation, forever... yeah... I'm not saying he's right per se but... how would YOU fix it? Because I also have no clue withtout a new plot point
My favorite part of this movie is that prior to Hobie showing up, Miles is fully prepared to be jealous because he thinks there's some kind of love triangle going on. But when Hobie shows up, it takes almost no time for Miles to "get it". He understands why everyone's talking about this guy, and can't help but be enamored as well. He no longer sees Hobie as a threat, but as the sort of person he wants to become. And Hobie wastes no time falling into that big brother role himself.
Yeah Hobie is full of the big brother energy for both Miles and Gwen.
‘The person he wants to become’ where’d you get that idea? Your ass? He may admire Hobie, but he said it himself, he wants to have his story unfold HIS way.
kinda funny using the term big brother while referring to a rebel
@@possibly_benbro hates consistency and labels so it makes sense :P
The movie doesn't just throw Miles for a loop, they throw the audience for a loop! As soon as Gwen mentions Hobie, I could feel all my hopes shrivel. I thought "Oh joy, another love triangle. Can't wait..." and sure enough, Hobie shows up and proves to be way more confident than Miles.
And just like Miles, I was so overjoyed to find out that not only was Hobie _NOT_ fulfilling the stereotypical role of "love triangle competition for protagonist," but that he was a much deeper character who (rather than competing or being jealous of Miles) COMPLETELY supported and gassed up Miles. I was absolutely delights, even kicking myself for doubting the writers.
I think one of the best parts is how Hobie calls Peter's daughter a anarchist cause depending on which canon Peter B is part of, his little girl is technically not supposed to exist. But she DOES due to Peter B meeting Miles.
Which blows a wrench in the face of Miguel's entire idea
@@mannythegrandfather2291By Miguel’s horseshit logic he should be screaming in Mayday’s face saying “YOU WERE NEVER SUPPOSED TO BORN! YOUR DAD WAS NEVER SUPPOSED BE WITH YOUR MOM!! HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DIE ALONE!”
@@kingpinpasta2934the image is so funny to me because I imagine her giving him a good whack w/ her tiny baby hands just for suggesting the idea 😂
I never heard of a canon event where something isn't allowed to happen.
Remember, canon events in the movie are being defined as events Spider-Man has to go through where possible, such as losing a Captain of the police force that is close to the Spider-Man in question. This is why Miles himself is fine: while he wasn't meant to exist, that isn't a break of the canon. It is that Miles becoming Spider-Man pushes him into the canon of Spider-Man, such as losing a Captain close to him, which would be Miles's father.
Not every Spider-Man gets together with Mary Jane, not every one gets divorced. So Peter B Parker getting back together with Mary Jane and even having a kid has no relation to canon events. Hell, Peter B Parker might even be out of canon events himself due to his age and length as Spider-Man. By that, I mean that he has already experienced every applicable canon event already.
@@justinalicea1590Where you get it wrong is that the mary jane for every spiderman is supposed to meet a terrible fate which Spider Jane has exained herself explaini g that the only difference is that because *she* is spider man she and peter switched roles but it remains the same that your "mary jane" is supposed to meet a bad fate and if it does somehow happen something happens to spider man instead with Miguel's other self that he took the place of. Of course theres tiny differences between each spiderman but every main role and event stays the same structure wise each one has their version of the Mary Jane character, everg one has their own chief that dies and every one had a spider (anime girl spider is a weird case but I suppose technicaly every spiderman is part spider so her just actually being an assistant to her spider and sort of pseudo sharing the spiderman role technically works?) that allows them to become spiderman in some way.
God you talking about Hobie's deception is also such a great example of how being deceptive shouldn't just be a trait for villainous characters. I wish more modern works took advantage of all the ways deception can be shown and used in stories, and hopefully Hobie inspires other writers to see deception in a new light
I think it was done well in Ghost Trick, my favourite mystery game ever, heh
I think there's a trope for that called "Guile Hero"
@@leritykay8911 I might check that out!
@@icetweiz Awesome! I just mean in terms of modern works, especially books, there's a tendency to make characters overtly honest, and deception tends to be reserved to dark protagonist moments or to villains when good people are dishonest about themselves all the time.
@@MIR-bu1ft Oh well, yeah, I think you should! I wasn't expecting to do Ghost Trick propaganda today, but I strongly recommend the game.
*It was a DS game that recently got a remaster on pretty much all consoles and PC
*It was made by the Ace Attorney guys
*If you do play it please avoid any possible spoilers. Don't even look up stuff about the game on google if possible
The first well written anarchist character I’ve seen in a Hollywood movie. I’m really glad people who don’t know much about the ideology can appreciate him as a character too.
It was so exciting to see!! I was kind of prepared to settle for the surface-level/possibly played-for-comedy stuff they initially presented him with, but the result was more nuanced and genuine than I had thought possible!
Yes!!! I was so excited to see him! Finally decent anarchist rep! 🎉🎉🎉
The way Anarchy was meant to be.
That's why very few weirdo sub intelligent people like anarchism.
Yeah i remember sitting in the theater and almost crying lmfaooo
I just realized the the writers are fucking brilliant. You said the line about Hobie 'being mischievous' and I realized that putting people off-kilter with banter is one of Spider-Man's MAIN TACTICS. And that's EXACTLY what Hobie is doing, only he's applied the combat technique to CLASS WARFARE, acting a fool so the hierarchy of spider-persons can't gauge his power or guess his next move. Absolutely fantastic!
Exactly! One thing they emphasize in the film is that humor is just a part of what Spiderman is. You can't be Spiderman without being funny. They even play around with the fact that Miguel is a hard-ass; he cracks a few jokes here and there, but he's actively trying not to be funny; even dumbo is still, at his core, a jokester. Hobie is just the opposite extreme of Miguel. If Miguel thinks nothing should be a joke, Hobie thinks everything is already a joke; if Miguel is trying to take things seriously, Hobie actively wants to undermine it for being too serious. For Hobie, the world is humor, and he's just the conduit.
I feel the need to look up if the writer(s) are the same people who write the Loki series. The two series/movies mirror each other very closely.
@@anythingyoucando1546 Oh that makes sense! That's why before the "Spider-Canon" was revealed it looked like the branching timelines from Loki.
What I love about this movie is how every spider person checks every box of what it means to be Spider-Man. It shows that you can write original characters while being true to the mantle. The exception is Miguel, but this is the case because he’s not really Spider-Man by nature, but an extremely complex man trying to live up to the legacy of the greatest hero in his dimension.
@@anythingyoucando1546the hot mess of dog shite that is the Loki series couldn't possibly in a million years be a product of the same writers of the Spiderverse movies.
Across the Spider-verse was around 140 minutes long and they didn't let a single moment go to waste
It was one of the largest strengths of the first one and it’s baffling that they were able to do it AGAIN. This crew knows what the fuck they’re doing and I am here for it. Also, great analysis by schnee as per usual.
Reminds me of Arcane, there is so much there but not too much
About a couple hours in I realized they weren't going to conclude the story, I didn't know it was a "to be continued" type of movie going in
And they still need another movie bc they spoil us
What's even more amazing is that they stuffed so much stuff in and somehow made it feel like a 90 minute movie. It definitely does not feel 140 minutes long.
I think it's incredible seeing not only how Hobie's existence has such a massive impact on the plot, but even Hobie's color palette shows when Miles is or isn't heading in the right direction. Look at 14:49, when Hobie sees that Miles thought for himself, Hobie is all lit up with color, but as soon as Miles gets hyped to join the society again, Hobie immediately fades to black and white. Genius
i noticed that too! Hell ya!
Genius
Genius, indeed. Amazing detail to the character. Great analysis.
fr!!
😱 Thank you so much I didn’t notice !
"Hobie, you're not helping" is such a telling line that shows how Spider-society views Hobie. Jessica and Miguel talk down to Hobie constantly and often just dismiss him completely. They do this so often that it doesn't even _occur_ to Jessica that he's _choosing_ to support Miles instead of Miguel.
She's so used to seeing him as a goofball that she doesn't even realize that he's directly undermining the whole regime.
Something I'd like to add is just how much he's protecting Miles from the start.
His initial line advising Miles on how to use better his powers might seem like he's belittling him in Miles' eyes, but its him genuinely helping.
Also, when he says 'I don't follow rules, neither does he', Hobbie KNOWS the spider society isn't gonna accept Miles and is trying to protect him from it. And this shows more when they're talking before meeting Miguel. He questions why Miles is so bent on joining the spider society, getting the answer that Miles just wants a watch to visit his friends, that he only wants a sense of community. Hobbie understands that and, once again, trying to protect Miles from a place that will never treat him like an equal, he tells him to do his own watch, all the while crafting one of his own, straight up telling Miles that he shouldn't be joining a war he doesn't even understand for something he could find other ways of achieving.
And even further, during this conversation, he asks about Miles' home situation, about his universe's condition and other things relating to his personal everyday well-being. It sounds like he's being sarcastic/making fun of him to Miles, but its just Hobbie checking to see how safe Miles is and if he's in a situation like Gwen's and if he'll need a place to stay or someone to look out for him and help him.
I think it's also foreshadowing the events with Miles dad too!
Holy crap that’s so smart
yeah, the moment he asked about miles parents my heart sank because I thought "damn he probably lost one or both, maybe he didn't even had a uncle ben to fall on" i interpreted it as genuine concern from the start and it made a bit mad at miles for being so grumpy
Hobie’s name is spelt with ONE b. Hobbie is pronounced the same as bobbie, just with an h
Exactly!! It's so neat!!
when Hobie put his legs in front of miles, i thought that was him trying to get him to slow down, and physically not rush into the room to meet Miguel, and join up blindly.
Knowing his whole arc in the movie, i feel like his membership in the Spiders Society was initially a "better get to know my enemy from the inside" kinda choice. He stays to steal bits for a watch, and he WANTS to meet Miles and start the revolution. When he first comes in, he asks Gwen right away if 'hes the one from 1610'. Besides indicating that Gwen might talk about him a lot, i think it shows more that he was WAITING for Miles, hes excited to meet the 'Anomaly' that miguel hates so much, and who's existence supposedly goes against the rules/plan of the universe. (If it was just Gwen based, i think he'd use Miles' actual name like she does, not the earth number. That is a Miguel thing, "that little nerd from earth 19999.")
Such a GREAT POINT, gosh this character is so great!
I just realized, yeah, he's not just asking "this the boy from 1610", he's saying it in silent air quotes, "the boy from 1610". That sums up how little Miguel thinks of Miles, he's not Spider "man", he's just a "boy". A kid.
I think that Hobie was legitimately a member until he realized that Miguel was willing to sacrifice innocent people to protect the timeline.
@@pn2294 Disagree, but I do think that he didn't go in with an intent to scope them out-- more that the second he got in the bad vibes hit him and he realized the danger.
I don't know Spider Punk's abilities, but I was under the impression that spidey sense was pretty universal, right? Hobie's spidey sense probably went off like crazy.
The thing about putting his legs up like that, is that he's signalling to miles not to go, he's hoping miles will stop walking and have a chat with him, but when Miles pushes him aside he lets him. Because he trusts Miles to make his own decisions, and do what is right. Even while guiding him and hoping he realises sooner.
Something that I would like to point out. Hobie Brown in the original 616 universe is also the original Prowler. Who was actually more of a hero than a villain. Which also makes his relationship with Miles a lot more interesting. In a way Hobie is a version of Uncle Aaron that became a Spiderman instead of the Prowler.
True
Definitely ties in with his role as a guide/mentor to Miles!
@@maqaeda agreed
damn
Pip pip!
Another thing to note is that Hobie is wearing blue shoelaces. This is obscure, but in punk circles, blue shoelaces can be used to symbolize that the wearer has killed a cop. Knowing this, the surface meaning is evident.
But then we get to the part where Miles is being told about canon events, and how every Spider-man experiences the loss of a police captain. Miles looks at Hobie, who replies "Yeah. What of it?" with a sad voice. This information adds new context to the laces. Did he really murder a police officer? Or does he just feel responsible for the death of a police captain and regret it?
I like the theory that his dad was a police captain who died saving him trying to do the right thing. He blames himself and thinks that he killed him.
gonna be honest that unless they span it in like a VERY specific way i think that the idea of hobie “blaming himself for the death of the police captain he knew” is like. really shallow and like lowkey an insult to anarchism. i think it’s much more interesting if hobie just straight up killed them - maybe they were someone he once cared for who eventually became more and more corrupt after becoming an officer
@@catboymiles7224 Anarchists are often betrayed as loose canons, but true to philosphy anarchists, like Hoby is presented as, are not lawless selfish entitled chaos. Anarchy only means, no structured leadership, it does not mean lawlessness.
Even if he is an Anarchist, that dead cop might have been close to him as being the one cop on the force who's not dirty, in a city full of bent coppers, and he got him killed or failed to safe him.
@@StarlasAiko there is nothing in my comment that says anything about "lawless selfish entitled chaos"?? being fundamentally opposed to the profession of policing is not that at all
Oooooo that’s soooo cool. I ADORE the amount of little details the artists put into this :O
I think another aspect of Hobie referring to Gwen as his “drummer” is because she’s the backbone of his actual plan for revolution, just like how the drums are the backbone of a song. Gwen getting the watch is the base starting point of the revolution just like how the life of a song revolves around the percussion.
good point! and drums also lead soldiers to a battle :)
Also from a personality perspective she is much more of a stable leader for a revolution of spidey people than Hobie *could* be due to his delibrately disarming nature while in the Spider Society.
Which Gwen would fully understand considering she IS a drummer herself.
drums arent the backbone of a song, youre thinking of the baseline. The bass carries the rhythm far more than the drums do
@@twigtwigtwig7youre right but so wrong. The drummer sets the timing. The bass line guides the melodies and rhythm as you said. That makes the drummer the “lead” and the baseline the moderation aka the position i think Peter B takes as the “adult.” Hobie himself literally takes the lead but not as a leader. A lead guitarist isnt always the main factor in a band but is often the center of attention due to their actions and role
The hidden face during the Hobie introduction scene where he says "You think I'm going to show you my secret identity? Come off it" is a very good foreshadowing that we are not seeing under the mask yet, that the assumptions we are making about him aren't who he is. When he enters spider society and takes his mask off is when we get most of the True Hobie lines. And his "I was always this cool" line just proves that he knows how to mask his true self and that the mask is superficial. If you want to see under the mask you have to be trusted. You have to be ready to see the true self under the mask before you're allowed to see under the mask. To see that people are cooler under who they present themselves as.
Oh nice.
Everyone in this comment section is so smart I love yal
Not just that, either. When he takes his mask off, it's supposed to send a subconscious signal to us like, "Wait, if his face isn't what he's hiding, then what is it?"
It is also "There is no difference between who I am with mask and who I am without mask, I am always me."
Something interesting I noticed is that Hobie even says, “What, you think I’m gonna show you my secret identity,” in the first place at all. He literally introduces himself as Hobie, Hobie Brown. The point he cuts himself off with the ‘secret identity’ bit is right when he starts to explain his story about *why* he is spider-man. His ‘secret’ is *why,* *why* he is spider-man, and *why* he is a part of the society.
Oh man, that works so well, too. Because the reason is something he can't let anyone, even the viewers, know yet.
man. this and the fact that he has blue shoelaces… i cant wait for btsv
Seemed to me like Hobie was being genuine whenever he was drawn in black and white, and when filled with colour he was playing his own caricature. A subtle but clear distinction the animators included.
And don't forget that Hobbie said the 4 most powerful words in the whole movie. When Miles starting showing anger when everyone was closing in on him, Hobbie said "There you go." Then Jessica Drew said "Hobbie your not helping" and Hobbie said "good". Sends chills down my spine every time I see it.
Can you explain i dont get it ?
@@vicious592 Pointing out the violence and double standards of the spider socity
@@vicious592it's the build up. When everyone is against Miles trying to contain the problem, Hobie is for independence believing the problem should be released and free.
@@vicious592 The Spider-Society and Miguel were trying to have Miles conform to the canon events stuff and are trying to shut him down from doing anything. When Peter B. calls him "Kid" Miles says "Stop calling me that" and Hobie casually says "There you go."
Jess says that Hobie isn't helping to which he responds with a simple "Good" because that was suppose to be his point. He's not trying to help the Spider-Society at all.
@jasonackor7958 In that scene, Hobbie also visually reminds Miles to "use his palms" to escape that trap.
My favorite moment was Hobie foreshadowing miles actions in Miguel’s universe, saying “I don’t follow orders, neither does he” both warning miles, and seeing that potential in him!
He’s really telling miles in that moment, don’t listen to them and follow their orders, BUT it’s interpreted as that shallow aesthetic. And he’s also recognizing miles potential to be anti-authoritarian like him, because of how he saved officer Singh.
@@krzlcveThe whole convo from when Miles first enters to getting to Miguel is Hobbie trying to get Miles to listen and think about the situation but Miles is too focused on just meeting his friends again. When Miles figures out the situation he actually listens to Hobbie when he tells him to use the palm
Hobie was a much needed breath of fresh air. From my experience, anarchist characters are frequently portrayed as being either useless contrarians, hypocrites, or outright villains, usually the result of moderate-leaning writers too scared that their audience might start to question the status quo or make their protagonists look bad for enforcing it
So by humanizing him and giving him more subtle but no less powerful ways to portray his message without being a dark caricature, they made one of the best characters ever?
They are represented this way, because most of the time, this is what they are. They would just replace something bad, by something worst.
@simoncoweII You wear your nickname and pfp well. Perfect incarnation of the smug douchebag who thinks himself so much higher than others, when in reality he's much dumber than he thinks.
Stay in your bubble for now, reality will catch up to you. It always does at one point, for everyone. For now, as a matter of fact, every revolutionnary leader has only brought down one form of fascism to install another that's much worst. It's just how it is. Anarchy no matter which one you think of, has always been, is, and always will be, a terrible way for people to evolve in, that only brings the worst misery in the end.
For someone who pretends having "a meaningful understanding of the political school of anarchism", you should know better, but it doesn't seem like it.
Problem with anarchists is they don't "stand" for anything, shit they'd rebel a state even IF the state took care of the population, cause "no-authoritah!"
Can't run a ship without authority. Can't run the world without it.
@simoncoweII Personally, and this is coming from someone who is usually decisively anti-anarchy, I feel Hobie is so great because he is an actual revolutionary. Someone who sits in that sweet spot between those that abuse the revolution to gain power for themselves, the Napoleons of the revolution, and those that blindly wreck society without eye for an alternative, just because they can. Hobie sees the problems with the system and rebels against it, but not without thought. In that sense he is kinda like George Washington; loyal to the rebellion but pragmatic enough to see that you cannot break the system without some semblance of order, new or stolen from the old system, on your part. And by his friendships, him building those watches and the techniques he teaches for breaking those barriers, as well as biding his time until the right moment, it shows he really cares about society in a strange way, because it has people inside it that he loves, and that in order to save those people, they need guidance yet freedom. That is something that most actual anarchists seem to miss, in my opinion, because as the video mentioned, most people pulled into extreme ideologies (of which anarchism is one) are those who don't see brightness in the path ahead due to not having the backings of people around them or of society to trust it will be okay, so they end up with those that feel the same and propose radical ideas.
It is easy to rebel, but not easy to revolt, and Hobie knows this. And from what I know about him, if a revolution would succeed, he would be using any authority he gains from it only to set up a better system, to then step away and enjoy his freedom. In fact, I believe he does exactly that by making Gwen and Miles the characters at the head of the resistance. He's anti-establishment not because he wants to see society radically changed into his version of lawlessness, but because he wants to preserve it from the authoritarian hand of Miguel and co. who are, in his eyes, suffocating it, and to help his friends who are in fact being suffocated by this very society, even if they aren't fully aware of that just yet.
Good stuff!! You mention how “loud” Hobie’s outfit is, which makes me recall a scene where Miguel is speaking and trying to ignore Hobie but is irritated when he can’t help but get distracted. So you see Hobie’s punk aesthetic successfully do just what it’s intended to do: challenge authority, disrupt the status quo, clog up the machinery of indoctrination
Dude I studied IR and diplomacy and the moment this man came into the screen I was FLOORED mate. The political theory, the planned toppling of the balance of power, him being the antithesis of the current power figures, the way he empowers the different communities his friends belong to in the ways they need (tropicalization), the importance of art to influence and free individuals while also building community?
Least to say I exited the theatre completely fucking in love with this man. Bet his ideal date is to raid the British Museum and, honestly? Hot af
Same.
facts. like im not straight, but if i was, Hobie is the kind of guy i'd want
"tropicalization"?
Same, I smiled the moment I realised I wasn't watching another worthless liberal pretending to be a radical.
This was an anarchist working toward building a revolution.
srry for the random question but what do you do for a living cuz im planning on studying that but not sure what kind of jobs I could apply to
Honestly hobie didn't strike me as "I'm hiding my personality to be all secretive" but more "hey! I'm a cool guy with a fun sense of humor and legitimate goals and they're both an integral part of me and my personality because I am an almost perfect simulation of a human being with layers and complications". You can crack jokes one minute and try and take down an organization the next
yeah i think its more writers being deceptive than hobie himself in-character deliberately being deceptive.
I feel like he does play it up intentionally, not really with Miles or Gwen or his friends, but within the Spider Society, definitely. Hobie's got the classic spiderman intelligence and he comes off as self-aware of how people percieve him which allowed him to get away unnoticed for months despite stealing their tech
He just seemed chill to me. Like a human capybara
@@Sootieloveagreed
I don’t think he was hiding, because he has nothing to hide and he knows it. That’s why he was actively talking about it. He was just laying low.
Three things!
1: not only is gwen wearing her pointe shoes while in her spider costume, in the clip included to point them out, she specifically takes a second to put her feet in third position! She's standing like a dancer even while she's just chilling, talking to Peter B and Miles. Iconic.
2. as someone raised by original 1970/80s punks (specifically DC punks), I was sort of worried when watching that Hobie would be a bad representation of punkness that focuses solely on the aesthetic with 0 ideology but Hobie is not at all that and is in fact a really good representation of how and WHY punks use their aesthetic. It's not just to look cool (tho that's totally a part of it) but a big part of punk ideals is that just because something looks nice and harmless doesn't mean it IS nice and harmless and often the seemingly "nicest" things (suburbs, clean suits, preppy clothes, trimmed lawns, clean streets, etc) cover up, support, and exist because of some of the most harmful parts of our society. Punks dress like that because it says "I can be a good person without following your rules. In fact, I can be a better person than you by purposefully breaking the rules of a corrupt system--even the minor rules about what people find visually appealing." Honestly amazing and I love it so much
3. I think the one thing that makes Miles the most insecure about Hobie is that Gwen has been staying at his home for a while--he mentions her leaving a jumper and toothpaste and stealing his shoes, which all could be read as evidence that they're a couple. But in reality, Hobie is doing something both incredibly kind and incredibly punk which is sharing your home with a homeless/runaway friend totally informally and without judgement. the most insecurity and panic-inducing aspect of phase 1 superficial Hobie is also the most true-Hobie thing he does: caring for a friend in need with no rules or expectations.
I just want to say that your explanation of dressing punk makes SO MUCH SENSE! Younger generations like myself grew up where fashion choices and aesthetics no longer reflect social and political ideologies as much as it was mere personal preference. Reference to video essays I've recently watch, subcultures are dying and it makes me wonder how much more impactful it is if the sheer effort of dressing can convey your stance. Although of course, noncomformity can be conveyed in other more powerful means beyond appearance.
OH MY GOD YESSSSS thank you for bringing attention to this - all the points, all the observations
pt. 2 - agreed, honestly amazing and love it so much
pt. 3 - exactly
Great comment! You had the best parents I bet!
1. Nice
2. That's a romanticization of the punk subculture. They were antisocial rebels and anarchists (anarchist = 80iq). People suddenly stop being punks one day when they take an honest look in the mirror
3 - watch the whole movie again. They ARE a couple
@@CJ-wh7ik Incredibly shallow and inflexible analysis here
“Calling yourself a Hero makes you a self-mythologizing narcissistic Autocrat”
Miguel: “We are the good guys.”
Damn, that's actually kinda deep.
While Gwen says "We were supposed to be the good guys" showing that being a good guy is about your actions (Miguel's actions clearly being framed as bad during the whole chase with his aggression towards Miles), Miguel saying "We are. We are the good guys" while the whole room is silent before and after shows he's calling himself a hero when he clearly is not being one and everyone starts to feel it. He has the words but not the actions of a hero.
He keeps saying with a calm and gentle face how beautiful the web of life and destiny is, how noble is their goal, how great they are for "protecting the canon" and all that (the words of a hero, the self-mythologizing), but when he's actually saying stuff straight out of his heart, in the scenes where he's angry at MIles, he keeps saying stuff along the lines of "*I* am doing all the work here, *I* am doing the right thing all by myself" (the narcissistic part). Finally, it's pretty obvious he believes himself as the rightful leader of the Spider-Society who everyone has to listen to because he was the first one to make a functioning dimensional-travelling watch, which becomes an instrument of power (the autrocrat part).
Our introduction to Miguel shows him as a kind of stressed, grumpy, edgy Spider-Man, with just some foreshadow for him not being a "true" Spider-Man (like wearing a cape and Gwen herself failing to guess who he is 3 times in a row, and when asked straight who he is he only answers he's from another dimension, not that he's Spider-Man), but we're still led to believe he's a good guy, especially because he is constantly being unintentionally funny. But with that line Hobie says during his introduction, we're also getting foreshadowed of who Miguel truly is.
Hobie's line and the foreshadows connect even better, because no one believes Miguel is a good guy, he doesn't look like a good guy and he doesn't seem to act like a good guy, but throughout the whole movie he keeps "calling himself a hero" (helicopter scene in the beginning of the movie, the scene after he sends Gwen home).
when i first heard that line i thought it was supposed to be “ironic” since he previously stated he didn’t like labels then proceeding to “label” someone else but that’s such an interesting interpretation
They seriously did their homework with Hobie. He’s a real person. He’s believable. I’m an Afro Brit and my dad is the epitome of this dude. British afropunk meets an enlightened bloke who influences under the radar…his complexity is beautiful yet quite annoying but you can’t hate him. He really is looking out for Gwen bc she finally realizes what’s going on too.
Your dad sounds cool
he reminds me of poet
your dad sounds so COOL
As a black Brit I was also shocked by the accuracy. Apparently Daniel kaluuya (the va) was given creative control; he also grew up in camden which makes this 10x better. Was a bit worried at first when they introduced a British character. Glad they went down this route instead of stereotypical queen english brit 😂
@@emii36363 woULD yOu liKe a CUp O' TeAaa???
A big reason for Hobie to know how Miles' power works is because Hobie Brown is the original Prowler in the comics, and Miles' power seems to have some connections to the Prowler through his uncle and destiny in an alternate universe.
Hobie is so close to Miles because he basically *is* Miles. He is *also* a Spider-Man who wasn't supposed to be Spider-Man, and has a history of taking Peter Parker's place.
He's basically Miles's uncle.
Just to clarify, in the comics Hobie was the Prowler of 616, but (to my knowledge) in the universe Spider-Punk comes from he was never the Prowler. Miles' uncle was originally only the Prowler in the Ultimate universe, until the Ultimate universe was merged into the 616. So Hobie and Aaron didn't really have any connections aside from using the same villain name.
But I wouldn't be surprised if they made more of a connection there in the BTSV though. It just seems like too much of a coincidence for them not to.
@@shockthetoastthat's so cool! Thanks for clarifying!
I'm really sick of this idea that every spider that isn't peter wasn't 'supposed' to be spider-man. It's just specifically this version of Miles who had his fate changed. All the spiders were 'meant' to be Spider-Man. "What makes you different is what makes you Spider-Man"
@@arsha8547there’s nothing to say that in a multiverse vast enough for kitty-cat Spider-Men, dinosaurs, cartoons and Lego Spider-Men, that things in Miles’ world didn’t turn out EXACTLY as they were supposed to. In Universe 42, MILES was supposed to be the original Spider-Man, a multiverse has room for infinite possibilities.
I think what's funny about Miles feeling threatened by Hobie is that the reasons Gwen is at Hobie's home is because she doesn't have one, Gwen broke rules just to go see Miles, and Gwen literally doesn't stop talking about how cool Miles is so much so that everyone already knows him as Gwen's bestfriend who she is definitely is in love with. Its also funny because Gwen does the same thing. Gwen and Miles are both scared that the other one is thinking about other people.
My favorite part bout the "love triangle" is that it's all Miles' perception
yes, Gwen is staying at Hobie's place, but not as his girl...
as a friend or even a sister.
Yes, I see Hobie as the epic big bro figure who took first Gwen, then Miles' under his wing and I LOVE that dynamic especially with the competition of affection misdirect.
In fact they are both jealous. As we can seen Miles is jealous about hobbie , And did any body notice that Gwen was jealous When miles meets with Margo "MARGO KEES AKA SPIDER-BYTE OF EARTH 22191" starting from 1:21:02 upto 1:21:43
Miles:That's cool.sorry. I'm spiderman.
Margo: Oh,no way! All of us are. Then she swings.
Gwen:Can we just keep moving ?👈( Didn't even wanted him to chat.jealousy!)
Miles:whoa,whoa,whoa. What are you?
Margo: I'm an avatar. My body is back in my parents' dimension,chilling in a gaming chair and eating Frito's.
Back at home"Right' because you don't listen."
Margo: Here is better.
Miles: I here that. What does that do?
Hobbie: Apart from having a great name?
Gwen: The go home machine.
Hobbie: What did i say,eh?
Gwen: I voted against it.
Margo: It detects whatever dimension your DNA is from and sends you there.
Hobbie: It's super humane and not creepy.
Margo: see you dawg.Don't come back.
Gwen: we should go. We don't wanna keep the boss waiting.
Miles: Ah,See you around?
Hobbie: Let's go!
Gwen:pull miles by the web.👈(shows the jealously)
Margo: Good luck out there, man.
Miles: Okay,bye!
This can make as sure about Gwens feelings on miles.
I really love this Miles and Gwen dynamic, they are so cute, and it is particularly poignant when Gwen portrayed as more "Grown up", mature and sure/confident than Miles in the first movie, and that is the point of the intro for the movie, building up Gwen as being as much of a lost teenager a Miles.
He also called her, his drummer. So she may also actually just be in the band and why she visits.
@@nonnativenarnianI also think that Hobie may even have a little bit of hero worship for Gwen, because apparently his universe had a SpiderGwen, had, and he kind of looked up to her. (A sort of Watching the Legend become the Legend thing)
Just a little fact, you said Hobie named his spider persona after his favorite genre of music, and while you are right with everything you said about it, Punk is not /just/ a genre of music. Its a political ideology of anti-fascism, anti-establishment, and non conformitiy. The Punk ideology is what Miguel is striving against. He wants everything to happen the way he thinks it should and stops anyone from non conformity, and you basically talked about the parts with the fascism.
Also in Punk fashion punks literally thrift clothes and tear them apart and put them back together or make something new out of it. It's all about making new clothes out of old stuff or thrifted stuff, and I think it's interesting that Hobie was the one to make the watch. He probably took apart his own watch and looked at all the stuff that was used to make it and put it back together and then stole tech to slap a new one together.
Replace those forward slashes with underscores to get _italics!_
Also, yeah, I'm not anarchistic, but as a Linux-using, DIY-minded person, the "favorite genre of music" bit in a video about a practical definition of depth in a creative medium kinda low-key triggered me.
Not only that his character’s design being torn paper layered over each other really drives the punk factor in, it’s super cool the way his character is so layered (literally and figuratively) and that he’s not just some “I love anarchy and I will create chaos”, but his anarchist actions are against miguels logic
im not disagreeing with you, but punk doesnt necessarily mean anti fascism. it's anticonformity in general. that's why half of the old punk bands you remember are neonazis and the other half are anti fascist. the only thing holding together "punk culture" as a whole is anger against the status quo, which means the specific ideology of any particular "punk" person depends on their perspective of the status quo. originally, like in the 70s and 80s, punk could probably be described exactly how you put it, i'd just argue that it has not been exactly like that within the last 30 years.
When they first introduced Hobie, my reaction was 100% "ah, dammit, they're making comedy out of everything he says to rob it of its real bite." Then he helped Miles get in gear when nobody else would and straight up quit, and I thought "okay, okay, respect for that, there was some real punk in there after all." Then came the ending and I was officially obsessed with this dude because "OH, DAMN, HE WAS NEVER FUCKING AROUND FOR EVEN ONE SECOND, HUH?"
Dude was overplaying his anarchistic anti-authority persona so the Spider-Society wouldn't take him seriously. Even Miguel didn't see that Hobie was stealing technology right under his nose.
Like an actual anarchist, he sets his plan by waiting. Then he sees what Miguel was willing to resort then he starts the dominos to fall.
He was true to himself the entire time. Like Miles, he was willing to break rules to do the right thing.
Hobie played 4D chess against the dude who probably has 4D chess in his futuristic lab
One thing I love about Hobie is that even with the superficial stuff, if you listen closely there's still truth in what he says. He never outright lies, he just plays up his personality so no one takes his words seriously enough to silence him. He purposely pokes Miguel (like taking the empanada) because it distracts from what he's really doing. You can see how experienced he is with dealing with fascistic societies even when Superficial Hobie is at play once you know to look for it.
Also fun fact I learned, Hobie used to (not sure if he still does) HATE being called Spider Punk (called himself Spiderman) because it was people trying to paint him as not deserving of the proper title.
In the Spiderverse comic run where he's introduced he hates the name Spider Punk, but by the time that his own comic run takes place he's grown to like the name.
And I think it makes sense he'd like the name considering it makes him standout from just being your average Spider-Man. Doesn't make sense he'd want to deserve a title that pretty much everyone has. It makes sense he'd deviate from the norm, which the name does perfectly.
@@_VISION. It's also a great middle finger to the people who were trying to use the title to delegitimize his role as his universe's Spiderman.
I'd also argue that Hobie's subtly allows Miles to grow in a more natural way. He's not pressured into Hobie's perspective, but instead stumbles into it. Same thing with the audience. We're questioning him throughout as well, and it allows the story to unfold and be told instead of it being shown directly.
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His character is everything!! He's literally the force of teenage rebellion, sticking it to the man and truly living up to the Punk name. I love that you mention the importance of artistic and musical expression in this story and how its a way in which the characters can rebel against the interpersonal pressures with their families, and reject conformity of an authoritative system. For anyone who can relate, art and the punk movement has been there for us to turn to when we need to express ourselves and simply rebel so that we can just be ourselves and do our own thing.
It's such an ironic contradiction (and very sad). The greatest struggles usually produce the greatest art.
@@RelaxAndRawr The same beauty can be created with equally strong support. It's annoying that struggle is something sought after rather than just accepted within our capitalist hellholes.
It is actually heavily implied that Hobie also has a variation of electric powers like Miles but it's established differently like through his guitar, you can see the lightning drawings the moment he breaks the barrier, which also justifies how he's able to give miles advice on how to harness his electric power properly.
Good catch!
he can also turn invisible like miles! you can see it in the "well that was another successful adventure for spiderman!" scene.
I think the barriers are just weak to high volumes of any energy, it'd make much more sense that Hobie's power is more relavent to sound waves, than it is electricity. As he's an anarchist and fully against corrupt systems (therefore, loud). So maybe the barriers could be sensitive to high concentrations of energy capable of travelling through it?
…and his music was electric.
Every black superhero seems to have electric powers tf is up with that
I love the fact that Hobie is just pure unadulterated chaotic neutral. EXACTLY how a punk would be. Favorite scene from the movie has to be when he unmasked himself with Miles and when miles asks him why he even looks cool without the mask, he simply responds with "I’ve always been cool." Absolutely love the guy lol!
Idk, IS he neutral? Chaotic, absolutely, but he always seems to want to help miles/stick it to “the man” (Miguel/the society). Feel like unadulterated chaotic GOOD to me but I’m no expert
I think that he's chaotic good
Punks are chaotic good by definition, imo.
I've never seen this, but it sounds like I need to, goddamn. It's like Sting taking off the sting mask and him still being sting.
Yeah, like someone else said, punks literally are chaotic good by definition
I recently read in a Tumblr post someone emphasizing how Hobie created a futuristic technology clock from rubble and wall parts as a boy from the 70's. That's wild.
I would argue that’s more impressive than Miguel priding himself in building the first dimension hopper especially considering Miguel’s preexisting background and resources and situations in life (advanced tech). Even if hobie was clued into the blueprints of it, he essentially crafted one with completely different and miscellaneous materials he could sneak under the radar.
I love how Hobie plays into the punk stereotype in order to get away with all that stealing. Normally characters like him are depicted as dumb, but Hobie is so much smarter than a lot of us give him credit for.
It's great, because he's obviously being viewed with that stereotype in mind by his peers. The perfect cover.
I also love it because even I thought he was going to be the sterotypical punk written in shows. Of just rule breaking for the sake of it. Man had actual cause and heart for punk and use a lot of punk terms to throw people off. Love him
Fr. He's ripping shit off the walls to make his watch later on, and no one stops him because that just what he does.
The first time you can see he is not dumb is after Spot vanishes and Pavitr Prabhakar starts to celebrate, he reacts the same as Miles and Gwen that this is not over...
He really is perfectly punk. Both superficial (punk sayings, aesthetic, stealing shit, rock star) and genuine (legitimately a rebel, unambiguously there for his loved ones, stealing shit, aesthetic).
the point you made about spider people and art hits the every nail on the head for me because as soon as i stepped out of the theatre after my first watch, i thought of the connection between everyone with art (not to mention the sheer importance of the entire spider-verse franchise for artists including myself). thank you for making this video about my absolute favorite character!
Knew this film was a masterpiece from the Guggenheim opening, but the moment where Miles is in the laser cage and the shot spins round and settles on Hobie wordlessly reassuring him that he has the tools to escape and save his dad... man, creating catharsis like that from seemingly so little set-up is basically dark sorcery
That's the power of film making, it's so much harder to replicate that in a book because you don't get hidden, or wordless moments like this.
@@bobthegamingtaco6073 Yeah, I'm out here trying to learn how to foreshadow properly in my writing without it being a complete asspull or ridiculously obvious on the get go. Maybe I just understand foreshadowing better in visual media.
@@joyc.e.7511 there's a reason why it's called chekov's gun. With books you really do need to add in little details like a gun hanging on the wall, that way when the gun gets shot you get a "oh my god that gun wasn't mentioned after chapter 3" effect. Honestly, I'd look at d&d, choose your own adventure books, and if you want to subvert it, the Alcatraz Vs Evil Librarians series
@@bobthegamingtaco6073 Thank you, I'll check those out! I've always been impressed with choose your own adventure books (I don't know much about d&d but I think it functions similarly, with someone writing out the lore and plot). Essentially writing alternate timelines based on a few decisions. The book series you mentioned sounded familiar and it turns out I've seen it a few times in my local library lol. I've been thinking of getting into Brandon Sandersons' books.
@@joyc.e.7511 d&d is similar, but if you're the DM, you really get to practice balancing amount of information with length of exposition. It's a really good exercise to avoid the dreaded Exposition Dump, plus, since it's a game, players will tend to look for exploitable faults in world building, which helps get you thinking about plot holes in your regular writing, both how to avoid them and how to patch them up when they inevitably arise.
One of my favorite lines from the movie is during Miles whole revelation scene
Peter B. :"Look kid"
Miles: "Stop. Calling me. That"
Hobie: "There we go"
Spider Woman: "Hobie you're not helping"
Hobie: "Good."
The pacing, the delivery, Hobie's expression, it's just a quick little aside, but that moment taught us SO much about Hobie's character. It's so good
He has previous experience with this type of situation, is hoping that Miles would start rebelling on his own, and was actively (but subtly) sewing seeds for the society’s downfall. Agreed, that line is really phenomenal.
my favorite part of Hobie is how he's written in such a way that, as an anarchist, i could immediately see through all the superficial deception. Gwen crashing at his place isnt bc theres something there, its because hes a punk and an anarchist and Gwen is homeless. He's housing her as any good punk would bc she has no where else to go and if you understand that you can immediately tell thats what's really going on. The mix of superifcial and true hobie in his intro is also easy to see through as an anarchist bc a lot of the superficial jokey stuff just comes off as, well, that, a joke. He's messing around and if youre another punk or anarchist you immediately latch on to what true Hobie says bc thats the real shit. And then in the scene where he's stealing pieces for a watch you can instantly clock what he's doing bc theyre talking about watches and DIY is a core part of punk culture. If you think the way he does as a revolutionary youll also immediately realize that the watches are *the* most important thing and you need to make your own watches that arent tracked or monitored or controlled by Miguel to be able to accomplish anything, and the best place to get the parts necessary for the watches would be from right under miguel's nose. He's written in such a way that most people will fall for his deceptions but others punks and anarchists will immediately see through it and understand what he's doing and that's honestly amazing.
I have sooo much growing and learning to do.
i wish i was a bit more savvy in those ways, but im definitely not as savvy as you and probably some others, but i did catch MOST of this, on my first viewing and was really glad to have noticed what was going on. there was some bits that i missed (that it was clearly the watches he was after) but a lot of it I understood too, because, as you said having a similar way of thinking.
Yes! I remember being a bit in disbelief at seeing such a good and cool representation of a punk character. From the very beginning he’s clearly stating what he believes in and what actually drives his actions, but most people are just used to not taking that kind of discourse seriously and their first response is to think it’s a joke or he’s just saying random stuff
100% this.
My only hesitation at the beginning was “Oh, does this movie understand what anarchism is, or is Hobie going to be a superficial punk?”
But RIGHT AWAY it becomes obvious that no, he’s the real deal
Yeah, agreed. If anything it's interesting to see how the average person does dismiss all that as superficial noise as that very much reflects on where society's at. Someone on the writing team knew their shit.
Fun fact: "Hate the AM" could probably be labeled serious/genuine as well. "AM" is referring to the radio, where propaganda is played. And of course, "PM" is referring to the Prime Minister. It's an anarchanistic Brit-quip through and through haha!
Hate AM maybe has a double meaning similiar to waking up early like in the alarm clock
For brazillians this also kinda works out nicely: PM is how we call our military police. Which... well, that's two things every good punk hates just bundled up nicely.
@@m.b.8282 if you take it at face value, sure
@@m.b.8282 The AM/PM thing sounds mindless at first glance, like saying you hate the day AND the night. Face value is him being superficially punk. PM meaning Prime Minister gives new context to the AM, its just a smokescreen to make it into a quip. Its a good line, it fits the "inconsistent" trait well.
So, I was kind of hoping this wouldn't get mentioned in the video, because now I get to say it.
Firstly, this only struck me quite so strongly because I saw the thumbnail for THIS video about a week before watching Across the Spider-verse. So I knew there was more to Hobie going in than I would have otherwise.
But that scene. You know the one. Where Hobie reveals who and what he *really* is. All of this video is entirely valid, but that scene, a few little lines, tie it together. Because yeah, Hobie is the goofy guy, he's wacky and Cool(tm) and everything...until he isn't.
There's a very popular trope in Superhero media, of 'the character stops holding back'. Older Millenials will probably have Superman as their best example of this: "What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am". For Spider-man, these moments usually come when he stops quipping and joking.
Like much of superhero media, it's an ultimate power fantasy. But sometimes it misses out on what makes superheroes so engaging to BEGIN with. The fact that they rise to meet a need nobody else can. So, when Hobie does this exact thing, what's the context?
Everything is Bad. The worst it could be, pretty much. The illusion of how cool this place was for Miles has been shattered, EVERYBODY he thought he could trust has turned on him and is condemning his father to die while refusing to let him even try and stop it. The music, the camera work, everything in the scene is panic and despair. And then,
"There you go."
"Hobie you're not helping."
"Good."
"Palms, not fingers."
"By the way? I quit."
In the space of a few words, delivered with deadly seriousness, Hobie stops pretending. You can see the pieces sliding together behind his eyes, hear it in his tone. Miles is overcome but Hobie is there telling US just how powerful he really is. No more jokes, no more (well, one more) quip.
In the darkest possible moment, when we the *audience* need it most, Hobie becomes a superhero. In a room full of people with incredible powers, he and Miles are the *only* ones who are. He has undercut this entire organization, and NOBODY ever had a chance of stopping him.
"Because that's what Spider-man does. He finds a way."
i just wanna say… this is so underrated omg
holy crap. this idea just blew open the vault of potential that i thought was possible for Hobie as a character. he stops joking when he’s fulfilling that trope, using his full power, and his power is to incite change.
My favorite example of when Spider-Man stops quipping is one comic where King Pin threatens Aunt May and Peter goes to the prison that holds King Pin, takes of his suit, challenges him to a fist fight, and almost beats him to death. The only thing that stops him from killing the biggest, most powerful threat in his world is himself.
Spider-Man is terrifying when he's serious because that's when no one can stop him. He WILL accomplish his goals. There are many comics when he will die before he stops making jokes because he knows what he's capable of. Hobie knows this. He probably knows this better then anyone else in that room because his entire life has been him fighting. The fact that he makes less jokes when he gets to the spider place (I don't remember the name) just shows how much he hates what it's become, but when he's completely serious at the end it shows that he will NOT let anyone stand in the way, no matter who they are or how much power they hold.
@@yourshoulderdevil5229 I don't even like that scene, but yes, EXACTLY that.
"The problem, Fisk, is you don't have any real power. Can't fly, can't shoot fire across the room. You're just a man."
That's an *ugly* sentiment to come out of Peter Parker. But it isn't wrong.
I love this so much, and is a little brushed off sometimes. Or used in a wrong way, but here? Holy crap
I love how the existence and treatment of Hobie by Miguel also adds to Miguel's characterization, he doesn't take him seriously, he's mostly just annoying to Miguel, he seems to be somewhat useful because he's still there but Miguel doesn't like him, he doesn't like him but also doesn't find him particularly threatening or dangerous, i feel like this tells us about how Miguels tend to underestimate people, he has a person who is against almost anything he does and he's just like "Ugh, You...", he sees other spiders as inferior or lesser, his motive isn't helping spiders or helping people it's keeping the multiverse under control.
The way he treats Miles it's a bit similar, he treats him as less, as a mistake and assumes he can easily overpower him.
That's also one of Miguel's biggest flaws, by underestimating people he set himself for failure twice in the movie.
The best part is hobie couldve left at anytime but he decided to stay until miles saw what he saw
@@purplebanana6420 hobie saw miles' heart
My favourite thing he does is visibly scavenge parts while literally saying to Miles "build your own watch."
He's actually not even hiding his intentions, he just plays them up as quirky banter and a faux-rebellion while he means every word of it. Truly refuge in audacity.
Also, it has to be monumentally sad for him to pledge his life to a fight against fascim and such, believing himself to be alone, and when he finds out about the multiverse, and the untold people just like him, they're all kowtowing to yet another fascist.
And he doesn't take it laying down. He can do the same as Miguel can, but better. He reverse-engineered and replicated the watches, and he too has people by his side, but won over with kindness and inspiration, not just conformity and fear.
He truly is PUNK AF.
Problem is, harsh or not, Miguel might still just be right, I think there's something deeper going on, (And that Miguel is just caught up in it, too) but if there isn't, all thus rebellion ends in is the destruction of multiple universes.
Most interesting point is that they're all the good guys, trying to do their best, miles might be against them, but they might be right.
We'll see in a year or so.
@@MagicCardboardBox I do think Miguel missed something, and his theories on canon are flawed.
Both earth-42 and 1610 are structurally intact, despite both suffering from multiverse tampering. I'm pretty sure Miguel just jumped at the first plausible explanation simply for closure.
@@alecchristiaen4856 I agree with you on that one! Miguel's multiverse theories are flawed and he is unwilling to revise them (probably because that means his closure and/or his power over the other Spider-people will be shattered).
Not to mention that this whole mess is really whoever let the radioactive spider from Earth-42 into Miles' universe... Or it could have even been a freak accident!
exactly this too!!! He MEANT it when he said build your own watch. he wanted miles to do his own thing from the start 🤷
@@Gremlinnethat being said they seem pretty real to him. So punk spidermen, with the current data, would indeed be heading to destroy the multiverse. The movie will probably go the "there is always another way" point but as far as the things that are known up until now, it is obvious that Miguel is right regardless of how much Hobbie wants to be against it.
I think for me the biggest turning point and realization of Hobie’s character was his first truly upfront anti-authoritarian act we see: helping Miles break out of the barrier miles puts him in. The way it calls back to hobie teaching miles to break barriers earlier and how by doing this he practically kicks off the revolution through chain events is fantastic
I love how he turns pink when around loved ones and that so quickly extends to miles
On my first watch Hobie felt chaotic. On second watching I realised how intentional everything he does is, and how he showed up already knowing how the Miles and Miguel confrontation would go and ready to help out. Amazingly written character.
Me too. I thought he was a mess. But everything from his animation and dialogue makes him a living Chekov's gun.
Even the "thought that'd be how I reveal my secret identity? Come out of it" is Hobie directly hinting to the audience that his identity is not what you're being shown at the surface level in that into and that he has a more complex way he's going to reveal his true self to the audience. Amazing video as always!
There's also the moment when they're walking to Miguel's office and Hobie asked miles why he wants to join spider society. Miles says "To get a watch" to which Hobie says to "Make your own," tipping us off to the fact that he was already reverse engineering the watches before hand
Miles initially blows off the thought, "it's too hard for me to do on my own", right?
But right from the beginning we're seeing Miles try to get into college to study interdimensional physics to reunite with his friends from the first movie.
All the Spiders in Spider Society and across Spider-Man media are scientists or have an interest in science in some form, I reckon Hobie recognises that Miles *absolutely* has the genius and drive to make his own watch rather than having to rely on Spider Society for one.
I like to think Hobie's pushing the punk rock DIY mentality but he's also giving his faith to the people he's sees potential in.
Also, when we're listening to Hobie telling Gwen she left her sweater round at his place, we're too immersed in Miles' competitive, reflexively anti-Hobie perspective to notice, but it's actually another big pointer to who he is, and we already have everything we need to know this if we could just step away and think: Gwen is on the run from her home dimension. She's been taken in by the Spider Society, but if Hobie is "letting" her stay round, she clearly isn't able to stay with the Society at that time, for whatever reason. And, we know that Hobie is anti-fascist and anti-authoritarian, coupled with his casual but very caring attitude with lines like "looking out for my drummer". Thus, what reads as Gwen staying over with a romantic partner from Miles' and our initial perspective, is both a powerful and caring gesture from Hobie and a hint at his clashes with the Society. So the moment the switch is flipped, thinking back on this scene completely changes it.
Also, something that i don't think is talked about enough is how Hobie wears blue shoelaces. In punk culture, that means that he killed a cop. This could mean that his canon event was killing his own fater who was probably also a police capitain. He might wear the blue shoelaces to not forget, or to show that it was necessary and that he'd do anything for his ideology. BUT he is one of the major reasons that Gwen's father gives up being a captain. This not only can imply that he wants to save gwen from the same suffering he went through, but also that he feels in a way that somehow his father's death could've been prevented. That's probably a big part of the reason why he hates canon events so much.
Also, regarding what was said in the video about Miguel. The fact that the movie not only shows how different people can be Spiderman, but people with different stories can become spiderman. Hobie is like the embodiment of that. His canin event wasn't just losing a police officer who was close to him, it was KILLING him. That might be another reason why he doesn't believe in canon events. If his canon event was different and his world didn't disappear, who says the canon event could've just never happened all together?
Anyways, thank you for coming to my TED talk. Im way too invested in this movie.
Now this has my wheels turning about what if his cop dad was abusive which is why he killed him and also why he houses Gwen and asked Miles about his family life. He wants to give kids support and protection he didn't get!
Somehow I totally forgot about Laces. That's such a good detail. I do wonder if it was intentional or just "Spider colors" but I'd lean towards intentionality with how well in depth every choice was
@@SeidrSnowsongI think I recall the actual character designer publicly stating it wasn't intentional, but regardless of intention I think it's an excellent piece of storytelling!!!!
just something that went through my head:
miguel compares the multiverse with a spiderweb, which are known for being extremely strong. A SINGLE change in the canon would be like a thread snapping or something catching on it, sure it can shake things up, but the web will not break. There also will always be new spiders making more and more threads, the web is infinite and solid
@@Carols989 ooo I dig that!!!
That is SO on point on what anarchy is. It's bonding with PEOPLE, outside of structures. It's creating strong relationships and trust in a group so that you don't need any kind of structural obligation to help each other, and never blindly following anybody to mimic what would have to be done (ie having role models) but being yourself instead. It's all about being genuine. Hobie really does it well. Personally, from the start, I never thought he was shallow. I was afraid they would turn him into a comic relief which would also have made anarchy into a comedy material, but I'm so glad they took him seriously.
Exactly!! Well-said!!
Thiss
Today I found out I might be an anarchist
@@shame2189 Good job
That's a fair point, but it's also an ironically naive outlook, because people are the corrupting force of organizations in the first place. The point of large organizations is to eliminate as many opportunities for betrayal of trust as possible. Which is, naturally, what attracts traitors to them in the first place. Eliminating organizations doesn't create trusting, cooperative communes. It actually does the opposite.
It's great to see such a deep analysis on an aspect of a great movie that most people don't realise is worth thinking about. Your videos go way beyond the overdone generic review of popular media and I love it!
Of all the analysts out there, Schnee truly stands on his own
Personally, I didn't know much about the character Spider Punk prior to this movie, and as an ex-punk myself, I think I, as many others, mistakenly often think about basic white Brits when you think about punk. But having Hobie be a POC makes SO much sense for his character as well. Seeing him without the mask and (to me) looking completely different (and older) than what I had imagined in my head, like in true punk style, was such a pleasant surprise! And it honestly just made me love the character even more.
I actually think that Hobie when introduced us the REAL Hobie & the one we see in the spider society is ironically his mask. When with gwen, Pav & even miles, he is cool, but he's also wild and cracks jokes left and right, but in the spider society, the closer he gets to Miguel, the more reserved he is; no jokes but more sarcasm come backs. He has more fun stopping a threat that could kill him, than being around millions of alternate versions of a guy he is based on. He treads carefully amongst people who are supposed to be his kin, but is a joker and a wild card against his enemies. It's a weird but perfectly introverted and inverted trait that shows just how different he is from the other spiderhmen
Introverted Hobie ftw
Because at least with people who declare they’re your enemy, you know exactly where you stand and what actions to take. Whereas among people who say they’re on your side, but have ulterior motives, you have to tread carefully 👌🏾
this is a good point, in the Spider Society he's essentially acting as a long-game sabateur, he has to be cool, not push too many buttons, steal a piece here, a part there, DIY (or steal and jailbreak) as many watches as he can manage, for when the time finally comes to make a move. He makes friends and allies, people that would have his back if things went sideways, aided Gwen who was *also* lined up to have to let their father die for the canon event, and is clearly torn up about that. Hobie probably saw Gwen as a potential instigator of change, in addition to being his drummer and friend, Miles would up being the one, but if Miles hadn't gotten involved, I think it's likely Gwen would have had a change of heart, and gone to save her dad, with Hobie having her back, bringing along any friends and allies he could get to answer the call. (come to think of it, he'd probably help Gwen bring Miles in to back her up in that scenario)
I think what adds to Hobie's characterization is how hard it is to hear what he says, whether it's Superficial Hobie or its Real Hobie. With Superficial Hobie, his voice is loud but the music is just as loud and he speaks incredibly fast, making it hard to hear first time watching. With Real Hobie, his accent is thick and he's soft spoken in great Daniel Kaluuya fashion. It's hard to understand what he's saying which I think adds to his punk nature and what he adds to the story. He's a voice in the background, foreshadowing and telling us that this spider society isn't all that great. He's hard to understand, until you experience the hardship that fascism brings then you can understand him.
Of course his Voice changes a Lot, he doesn't believe in consistency!
The music being louder is just because for some reason the sound balance is ass in the movie
The same thing happens during the intro when Gwen, Miguel, and Jess battle the Vulture
yes, the mixing on its original release was pretty bad. they redid it about a week or two after opening, i went to see it again and it was much better. id still say OP's point stands. the music during his lil speech is dissonant in a way gwen's wasnt. they just went a bit too far and made him unintelligible the first time around
The visual language of Hobie's design really complements these ideas too--his design is constantly changing in terms of color, pattern, and speed of animation. He is always standing out but also creating a type of visual misdirect for the eye. He'll bend the rules of his world as much as he bends the rules of animation itself since his different layers are animated at different speeds. He has depth quiet literally within his collage-appearance both being layered in terms of material and rate of motion. He is many things at once.
Also did you notice his changes SEEM anarchic and uncontrolled but, much like his actions, there's depth to all of them? Grey when disappointed or getting serious about the ills of the world. Pink blush when affectionate. Bold and brash when playing to the crowd.
Hobie is a great character, but I think some people's surprise that he is deep and "against the machine" is that ppl don't know/remember the history of punk. They get blinded by his cool and put him into the "superficial cool" box. His aesthetic is very intentional and actually clues the viewer in to his more radical politics. He can be someone who makes Miles insecure to establish that smaller arc and also be "true" Hobie. I think he's true the entire time ppl just are quick to slot ppl into boxes and forget that multiple things can be true at once.
I love the point made about art. A huge theme is how people living out the same story make different choices based on their perspectives. I personally like the idea that the aesthetics of people universe is literally how they see and hear. Miguel not being artistic shows his inability to consider other perspectives. But I noticed in the film, Uncle Aaron actually is a master of his art too, specifically in how he turns up his music to interrogate Miles. As the atmosphere gets more emotionally intense, the art in scenes gets more abstract, so Aaron knows that by amplifying your art you can expand your individuality. His art is his link to Miles (also Hobies link to Miles, and I know Hobie is sometimes the Prowler so maybe there's a connection there) which is also why Miles' Dad says they can throw up some of his art at the end of itsv. I think it's related to the point made in that first video about inability to communicate.
hobie brown being the original prowler in the comics and spider punk now, is a great parallel for the two miles'
(EDIT: Apologies for the MUTED quotes, got hit with a music claim again, just like the last vid... 🙄)
Question: Why do you think Gwen switched from ballet shoes to chucks after she joins the Spider Society? 🤔
trying to fit into a new group because her last one rejected her
Hmmm, maybe it’s because of miles? I could be wrong though, since I didn’t watch the movie
@@brandoncericola2524 same.
I wonder if there's a punk subculture thing we don't know about here. For example, I discovered the blue shoelaces Hobie wears is code in the punk community for having killed a cop. (Maybe in his universe, Hobie actually killed his police chief!)
@@Rampala maybe....
Visually, I would like to note that the more of "True Hobie" is showing, the more black-and-white he is presented. Less colorful, less jumping around of the art. I mean, his art style is never not quick-change around the edges as if different pieces of paper were being used in each double-length frame, _but_ when he's being "superficial Hobie," it's not JUST different pieces of paper each frame, but somewhat different art bits, with actually different entire segments for legs or arms (same pose, different color/style) and with things layered on top with a lot of extra pieces of paper forming the collage. When we get Hobie talking to Gwen in that serious question voice, or trying to have real-talk with Miles about the situation, he's all one piece of paper at any point in time, and we see him not as an impressionistic collage, but as a solid sketch.
If you think about it, alot of revolutionaries were/are spies and people you never would give the time of day. Hobie plays this role to understand exactly what Miguel is doing and get more people on his side quietly.
Character crafting like this shows us all why the writers require our support during this strike. If we want to experience more stories on this quality, these people need to be compensated! Take from the studio elite and apply where it's due. We should all be Hobie when it comes to institutions that seek to keep us all 'in check.'
Ah yes, follow the Punk! Let's get down to it and protect our creators!
My favorite part about Hobie's art style is how it's always changing from his colors to his cutout outline thickness.
Even the way he was animated was unique compared to everyone else. His body was animated on 3s, guitar was animated on 4s, and outline was animated on 2s.
When Hobie says he doesn't believe in consistency, he means it.
but he has to believe in consistency sometimes or then his belief in not believing in consistency would be too consistent :P
Wait seriously? I know that they animated on different frames for some things but animating different parts of a single character on different frames like that is insane. Sheesh, no wonder his animation was so striking.
@@saphcalI'd argue that "inconsistency" as a constant of someone's personality is an inate contradiction, and an inconsistency by extension.
This is fun to think about!
@@hahahahahahahahaa6580 the more inconsistent the inconsistency is, the more accurate it is! :P
About the art point, its a pretty neat point!
I think Miguel has an art for himself as well, its a lot more rigid and logical than traditional art, but his design and the watch and his displays all look like theyre on a blueprint, so I took it to believe he designed them. Its very rigid and straight lines and efficient just like him, thats how he expresses himself.
One thing I love about all the spiders is how intelligence, art, and humour are all key components but they express themselves in different ways. Deception, engineering, tactics. Photography, illustration, music. Deadpan, quips, even straight-manning. Miguel stands out for not being overtly funny or artistic, but he just expresses it in different ways
the designers of the movie said the art style of Miguel and his dimension are kinda ironic since everything is sharp, pretty and utopian, but at the same time you can see the blueprint lines sticking out, as if to say that the future isn't set in stone as he believes
29:30 This tidbit about Hobie and Gwen's lore hits hard when you remember that she is part of a society where her canon event is to DIE FOR PETER and she even mentions that as one of her insecurities in the movie. Hobie canonically sees her as more than just plot development for a guy.
The fact that you can coin the phrase "Let's do the Bunny Work" and have your entire fan base understand it as a complex, multilayered narrative dive speaks to your ability as a writer. So glad I found your channel.
I know you prefaced your analysis of Hobie’s political action by saying you don’t know much, but I think you made a ton of great points that other people would know to point out about actual methods of revolution! Great job!
Fun moment: When Hobie takes off his mask, Miles asks, "How are you more cool without the mask?" To which Hobie responds, "I was always this cool," a subtle hint that real Hobie was there the whole time, you just didn't notice.
You blew my mind with all of those questions at the end! I was sitting here wondering “how do you even layer a character like this????” Then BAM I suddenly, at 2x speed, understood at least the path to a character this profound. They probably didn’t even realize all the implications of this! Every one of those questions expands the rabbit trail just a little more. My mind is racing. More hobbie please. GREAT video man
24:02 This is still my favorite scene. To everyone around him, who aren't taking him seriously, it looks like he's being cowardly or pacifying Miles, but he's actually reminding Miles to use his palms to get out. That's what really brought Hobie's character to the next level for me, and I think its a good example of his superficial vs real dynamic.
I love the way that Hobie is so confident and secure in who he is that he even though it's obvious Miles feels insecure about his presence, Hobie immediately does everything he can to boost Miles' sense of worth. He takes a moment to quietly show him how to get the full power out of a venom strike, and when they save Mumbattan, Hobie takes time to make sure Miles knows how well he did. Then, when Miles is trapped, Hobie's there reminding him how to do the venom strike.
This is what makes Hobie so great, he's not a hero or a role model, but he's someone who cares deeply about other people, especially those who are vulnerable and he does what he can to help them. Pav is probably only as chipper as he is because when he lost his uncle, Hobie stepped in to be a new mentor figure. Miles was afraid of meeting a rival, but the moment Hobie enters his or Pav's or Gwen's life, he's a big bro to all these teens who need a big brother figure who's there for them.
One detail that an artist mentioned is that Hobie never fits in to any scene he's in. He always sticks out just... visually, an abject refusal to blend into the background, to fit the style and structure of the world around him. It's a great way of visually clueing you in to the fact that even if Hobie is *in* Spider Society, he's not really *of* Spider Society. He's only there to keep an eye on things, and intervene when the time is right.
Someone they can look at and say, "If this guy can be even cooler underneath the mask, maybe I also don't need it."
Holy shit
I think the casting's important too. They cast Daniel Kaluuya for Hobie, who played Fred Hampton in Judas and the Black Messiah. The fact that they got an actor who played a Communist revolutionary who was killed by the FBI to uphold the status quo should say a lot. It would make sense because Kaluuya knows how to play a competent and empathetic revolutionary.
Facts. Kaluuya was perfect as Hobie
To be completely honest, I looked at Hobie completely seriously from the start, half-expecting him to be a disappointing caricature but overall seeing him as sort of a mentor figure to Miles.
It might be because, as a fan of Cyberpunk and post-apocalyptic punk, I already know this genre Hobie is based on is only a colorful great revolution on the surface (as a disguise), and serious rebellion in actuality.
Ahh, a like-minded individual. When I saw him, I knew he'd be a loose cannon and that I should probably expect a twist from him.
@@flutterg1035im glad im also not the only one who viewed him as such. I never stopped taking him seriously.
I love cyberpunk too and now the new cyberpunk is spiderpunk ^.^
Also very Spider-Person of him. Distracting and disarming his opponents with humor to coax their plans, then formulating and executing his own plan based on that intel. It's the most classic play in the Spider-Man playbook.
Spiderman is a magician, distracting you so you don't see the "trick" that's happening right in front of you. Hobie is doing that the whole time he's on screen.
even Hobie's superficial elements are another part of his true revolutionary base- i.e. his funny and derivative one-liners are part of the personal connections he makes, or the false stops about performance art/modeling reflect his focus on art & expression
I love the moment when Hobie physically blockades Miles with his legs, because when Miles pushes through it allows Hobie to PHYSICALLY "pivot to walking with Miles where he's going." It's so beautiful when the metaphor can be written straight into the choreography.
As soon as he said "use the palms" I KNEW he would be my favourite. The entire time he's just supporting Miles and helping him escape. When he's walking through HQ he's ripping things off the walls, making a spectacle, distracting from the fact he's taking them to make his own watch.
How tf does he know how to make one though? From random parts
@@adamH.1He's spiderman...all spidermans are smart
Hobie dominated my brain after I left the movie theater. This man is so cool and his ideology just syncs up with mine and it makes my brain buzz. The importance of connections which can be facilitated by art are essential to combating fascism. Art is so important as a medium of self-expression because it can’t be taken away by fascists as hard as they may try. The fact he’s looking out for the young spider people makes me so incredibly happy.
Omg and his aesthetic is honestly one of these best eye candy in the movie. His character design his dialogue all of it contributes to a character that is the embodiment of the freedom to be yourself. He uses that more British style of punk which (to be honest for me at least) is one of the more recognizable versions of punk. That constantly changing collage of newspaper clippings and messy typewriter fonts bring up the image of punk bands. The fact that he’s a person of color, the fact he’s specifically black in itself feels like an homage to punk. It draws attention to the fact that punk was for people of color and the working class. His sort of diy clothes littered with pins and patches. His hair is all connected to his character. The importance of his freedom. His hair is natural, his fit sometimes changed to orange which is reminiscent of prison suits, his shoes. Like this man gave me so much fucking brainrot and that isn’t even talking about the headcanons I have.
Like Hobie feels like he’d be queer in some capacity like he wouldn’t give a shit about gender presentation. Like he would try to exist somewhere outside the binary and that’s pretty hard for a state to control. You can’t really determine who’s going to end up with a different gender at birth because that’s their own perception of themselves. The fact he lets Gwen crash at his place feels like a more older queer person that empathizes with the struggle of being homeless after family rejection.
I just love him so much and he’s so cool-
Best character and he’s taken seriously about revolution. Like I cannot stress enough how much this character rots my fucking brain omg-
"Don't just use your fingers (keyboard, communication), use your palms (labour, engineering)."
Please never stop these kinds of analyses - even after you've plumbed the depths of Spiderverse, whatever else gets you thinking this deeply on topics like these, keep it up!!
When I heard the line "I'm not a hero, cuz calling yourself a hero makes you a self-mythologizing narcissistic autocrat."
I was like:
I've found my new favourite character
I'm just now realising that he's *definitely not* talking about Miguel specifically XD
I'm just now realising that he's *definitely not* talking about Miguel specifically XD
real
@@twig_a_liz I'm just now realising that he's *definitely not* talking about Miguel specifically XD
@@twig_a_liz I'm just now realising that he's *definitely not* talking about Miguel specifically XD
I did like the voice of decent part of him. When Miguel decided to trap Miles and prevent him from going home his friends were yelling at Miguel, everyone there was was talking about Miles as if they decide his fate. Hobie was talking, calmly, to Miles, reminding him he already has the power to choose his own path. He saw the true face of the Spiderverse. Is he going to accept it, or is he going to fight for what he believes.
Hobie is like Uncle Aaron to Miles. His dad is a cop, his mom has high expectations, his school has high expectations, even as Spiderman hes constantly insulted how hes not doing it right, and even his friends silently believe he is not meant to be Spiderman as they allowed Miguel to absolutly tear into him. Miles is absolutly SURROUNDED by authority. Aaron and Hobie are both people that value induviduality and being who you want to, or need to be, and encourages it in Miles.
Exactly
Funny you mention how Aaron and Hobie are common because.....
@@alimations5226 yes we know. They’re both the Prowler
@@donathan2933I- did not know fhat-
@@donathan2933 and so is miles now. they have so much in common 😂
i love the "hate the am... hate the pm" with the extra emphasis on the pm. as pm doenst refer to time in this line, but to prime minister the leader of the government
One other subtle thing they show to add more depth to Hobie is one of his "canon events". Right as Miguel's explaining canon events to Miles and says: "Canon events bind our lives together", we see Jess, Peter B, Hobie and Gwen all looking at one of their events in the "Spiderweb".
Jess seems to be looking at some sort of death of a loved one/fight, not sure about that one.
Peter B is looking at his wedding day.
Gwen's isn't really visible, but it seems like a fight maybe her Peter Parker's death?
And lastly what is Hobie looking at? The day he abandoned his Spidersuit. A character who's very confident in who he is as a Spiderman, in who he is in general. A character who, as mentioned, was set up as a cooler and more competent Spiderman than Miles and above everything else is shown to have one of the strongest ideologies in the movies. All other Spiders(I'm generalizing here) do what they do because "With great power, comes great responsibility', and this applies to Hobie, but he's also an anarchist and steadfast in his believes. One of the only Spiders to rebel and reject the Spidersociety. That Hobie decided to throw away the mask, probably not that long ago too. It really adds to his character by showing us he wasn't always like this. He struggled, changed and grew before becoming the confident Spiderman who follows his morals.
It just makes him feel more alive.
🎉
Jess was having her MCU Spider-Man moment trapped under the rubble, Tony's words to Peter echoing in his head, does the suit make you Spider-Man?
i also like how when they're talking about ASM-90, the police captain dying, hobie shrugs and says "what about it?" yeah, it happened to him too, but he's acab
I’m surprised you didn’t point out his “Good” line in response to Gwen’s (I think) line, “Hobie, you’re not helping.” For me that was the big reveal of his 3rd character. The fact that he openly admits that not only is he not trying to help the spider society in achieving Miguel’s goals of controlling Miles. He’s actively and intentionally frustrating them, provoking and empowering Miles to escape. Honestly, as an anarchist myself this is the only line of Hobie’s that I truly resonated with, that truly felt like an act of rebellion.
I love the character and agree with your analysis but the whole thing can be summed up in that one moment. The fact that his peers thought he would help or at least thought he would shut up once chastised speaks volumes about how well he has hidden his true self under his first character as you say, his non-serious, write-off-able persona. But then he says “Good” with such a straight face and a straight back and such intense focus. His slouch is gone. His happy-go-lucky chill face is gone. He knows what he is doing, this has been his goal from at least the time he met miles, if not the time he met Miguel.
This moment feels so familiar to me. So often those of us who hold strong beliefs which run counter to societal norms are chill laid back people 99% of the time. We go with the flow and let things slide to the point where those around us assume we will never be an obstacle. But then a line gets crossed and we plant our feet and become hard as a rock, immovable. Those who meant to trample over us and those we are defending say things like, “when did you suddenly grow a spine.” But they don’t know. It was always there.
My favourite line, too. It's in response to Jessica Drew, Muguel's right hand
Yes! he says so much with that one word. The writing, the acting, the animation, it all works together perfectly to show you the true nature of this character who everyone has been under-estimating. It's truly great.
Yes! I loved that, too. It's completely, pun intended, mask off. He's revealed who he is, and he's not hiding that anymore.
It was Jess who told him he wasn't helping. Great read though, just wanted to add a bit of correction.